The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: N30 on September 05, 2016, 07:53:53 PM

Title: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 05, 2016, 07:53:53 PM
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.

Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

"Our globe, however, is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe,"

Above quote from - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/

Here is a website that specifically bashes flat Earthers, yet, assumes the Earth is a perfect sphere in its calculations.

https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/working-with-the-curvaure-of-a-spherical-earth/
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: inquisitive on September 05, 2016, 07:56:47 PM
And the actual difference is what?  It's a worry.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 05, 2016, 08:14:36 PM
Difference between equatorial and polar diameters is 0.35%.
With error of 0.35% you can use approximation from "almost-circle" to "circle".

Draw ellipse 7.898 inches high and 7.926 inches wide.
Would you be able to see the deformation of 0.028 inches?
The thickness of the line you draw is 0.7 milimeters, which is roughly 0.028 inches.

You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),
but from pole to pole, the diameter is 7,898 miles (12,714 km)
 — a difference of only 28 miles (42 km)."

So, equator is 14 miles farther from the center of the earth than poles.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 05, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),

(https://s9.postimg.org/pspka7qhr/Diameter.jpg)

This is why I believe in a Flat Earth. How did you calculate the mean? You obviously did it wrong.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 05, 2016, 11:24:49 PM
This is why I believe in a Flat Earth. How did you calculate the mean? You obviously did it wrong.
You are a funny guy. Please, calculate for me the flat earth diameter. And thickness. And whatever other measurements you have.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: John Davis on September 06, 2016, 12:45:25 AM
The thickness of both an infinite plane (see our blog) and a finite disk (see: A.C. Tort) has been done. As has the diameter in both cases.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 06, 2016, 01:37:21 AM
The thickness of both an infinite plane (see our blog) and a finite disk (see: A.C. Tort) has been done. As has the diameter in both cases.
I read your blog but can you give a link to this A.C. Tort?  And still, from where you get all your values which you use - A, p, m? And yes, you may be more versed in math than I am but I've done my share of integrals, surface integrals and volume integrals in high school and I don't get what is the difference between usual surface integral (double integral) and your closed surface integral? Also integrals are done usually on finite surface. Sure, you divide this finite surface to infinitesimal parts but the thing you do integrals over is finite. How do you do your integrals over infinite area? As I get it you just say that if I divide area into infinitesimal parts then I can do integrals and get desired result and in the same time ignoring that the area you are dividing is not finite but is infinite.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 06, 2016, 06:18:15 AM
You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),

(https://s9.postimg.org/pspka7qhr/Diameter.jpg)

This is why I believe in a Flat Earth. How did you calculate the mean? You obviously did it wrong.

Double the mean radius of 3959 and you get 7918.

If you divide mean diameter by 2, you get 3958.75, which is 3959 as integer.



(http://i65.tinypic.com/2pziem9.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 06, 2016, 10:14:14 AM
You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),

(https://s9.postimg.org/pspka7qhr/Diameter.jpg)

This is why I believe in a Flat Earth. How did you calculate the mean? You obviously did it wrong.

Double the mean radius of 3959 and you get 7918.

If you divide mean diameter by 2, you get 3958.75, which is 3959 as integer.



(http://i65.tinypic.com/2pziem9.jpg)

Now, lets look the The Blue Marble—Earth as seen by Apollo 17 in 1972.

3000 by 3000 pixels on Wikipedia. With the size of the Earth imperfection we know, how many pixels will this imperfection be? I am guessing less than 1 pixel at 3000 by 3000.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 06, 2016, 10:30:05 AM
You forgot that blue marble is a stitched image.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Omega on September 06, 2016, 11:13:55 AM
You forgot that blue marble is a stitched image.

No.

The Apollo 17 image is just a single photograph. In 2012, NASA made a composite picture of the Earth which they also called the Blue Marble.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 06, 2016, 11:35:45 AM
You forgot that blue marble is a stitched image.

No.

The Apollo 17 image is just a single photograph. In 2012, NASA made a composite picture of the Earth which they also called the Blue Marble.

Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 01:14:45 PM
People cant even tell what pictures of Earth are admittedly fake or real anymore!
Really! Spjunk never actually explained how he calculated Earths equatorial diameter to be 7,926 miles!!
Or is it possible!? How does one account for the pear shape of Earth in the calculation??
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Omega on September 06, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
People cant even tell what pictures of Earth are admittedly fake or real anymore!
Really! Spjunk never actually explained how he calculated Earths equatorial diameter to be 7,926 miles!!
Or is it possible!? How does one account for the pear shape of Earth in the calculation??

Strange how you make demands for clarity when you have yet to cite even a single source for project blue balls.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 02:04:00 PM
You do realize that YOU yourself cited many sources claiming NASA's Project Blue Beam to be FACT.
Evidently you did my job for me!
Subsequently you began making rude remarks.

Shut up for a moment, N30. Zork, alive and I are clearing the air.

We will get back to your insanity later.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Omega on September 06, 2016, 02:11:54 PM
You do realize that YOU yourself cited many sources claiming NASA's Project Blue Beam to be FACT.
Evidently you did my job for me!
Subsequently you began making rude remarks.

Shut up for a moment, N30. Zork, alive and I are clearing the air.

We will get back to your insanity later.

Are you high?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 03:27:38 PM
Are you this rude in person?
Do you not realize that unless someone can answer my questions, I have proven a Flat Earth, at least in my book?
Does not that merit responses other than "shut up" and "are you high"?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 06, 2016, 03:36:00 PM
Are you this rude in person?
Do you not realize that unless someone can answer my questions, I have proven a Flat Earth, at least in my book?
Does not that merit responses other than "shut up" and "are you high"?

Get off your drugs mate.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 10:23:40 PM
Tell me then, how do we know live on an oblate spheroid with a larger southern, then northern hemispheres?
How did you calculate those numbers of Earth, and where did the numbers to calculate them with come from?
Are we still using Eratosthenes' method? Who assumed Earth was a perfect sphere? That is now invalid!
Now, don't worry though, I don't expect an answer quick! Apparently it takes a SUPER GENIUS to solve it!
Kindly take a look at the references below proving my point, one site even mentions this forum.
Supposedly, Eratosthenes' calculations were lost! But... Another site uses them any way.

Quote
"So I cannot drop the name of a super-genius who came up with, and proved, a spherical Earth all on his own, but I can give you the names of its contributors."

"His measurements were fairly accurate, but exactly how accurate is still up for debate.  First of all his original measurements are lost (you can probably blame that on the destruction of the Library), and secondly, we don’t know the exact length of the unit he used"

Quotes from - http://futurism.com/facts-obvious/


Quote
"Eratosthenes then divided 360° by 7° 12' and determined that 7° 12' was 1/50th of a circle."

"The distance figure he used was 805 kilometers or 500 miles. Next, he multiplied this distance by 50 to get 40,250 kilometers (25,000 miles)"

Wondering how he got those numbers?

"he probably hired someone or enlisted a slave to accomplish the task"

Quotes from-http://www.geo.hunter.cuny.edu/~jochen/gtech201/lectures/lec6concepts/Datums/Determining%20the%20earths%20size.htm

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 06, 2016, 10:47:09 PM
People cant even tell what pictures of Earth are admittedly fake or real anymore!
Really! Spjunk never actually explained how he calculated Earths equatorial diameter to be 7,926 miles!!
Or is it possible!? How does one account for the pear shape of Earth in the calculation??

The number was from search I presented you in the form of image.

If you want me to, I will calculate myself.
I can use ground speed of subsolar point at equinox to calculate equator circumference,
and then you can calculate diameter yourself.

~~~~~

Actually, let's do it now:

Makoua, Congo, 15.623 degrees east.
Entebbe, Uganda, 32.455 degrees east.
Distance between them 1164.24 miles.
Angular distance 16.832 degrees.

With 15 degrees per hour, ground speed of subsolar point is
1164.24 / 16.832 * 15 = 1037.52 mph
In 24 hours it is 24900.48 miles of equator circumference,
which gives diameter of D = (24900.48 / 3.14159) = 7926.075 miles

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ag9pgy.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
Invalid! Show the calculations for the major and minor axis'! Earth is supposedly an oblate spheroid, not a sphere!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 06, 2016, 11:09:45 PM
Invalid! Show the calculations for the major and minor axis'! Earth is supposedly an oblate spheroid, not a sphere!

Major and minor axis of Equator?

LOL
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 06, 2016, 11:35:06 PM
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 06, 2016, 11:41:10 PM
Mate, you might have some serious issues.
I recommend visiting a doctor.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 06, 2016, 11:58:06 PM
Invalid! Show the calculations for the major and minor axis'! Earth is supposedly an oblate spheroid, not a sphere!


The actual shape of the earth is described as the "Geoid":
Quote from: Wikipedia
Geoid
The geoid is the shape that the surface of the oceans would take under the influence of Earth's gravitation and rotation alone, in the absence of other influences such as winds and tides. This surface is extended through the continents (such as with very narrow hypothetical canals). All points on the geoid have the same gravity potential energy (the sum of gravitational potential energy and centrifugal potential energy). The force of gravity acts everywhere perpendicular to the geoid, meaning that plumb lines point perpendicular and water levels parallel to the geoid.
Much more in Wikipedia, Geoid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid)

This is not a simple shape as it is a sphere distorted by rotation and by the unequal distribution masses around the earth.
Quote from: Wikipedia, Geoid, Description
Description
The geoid surface is irregular, unlike the reference ellipsoid, which is a mathematical idealized representation of the physical Earth, but considerably smoother than Earth's physical surface. Although the physical Earth has excursions of +8,848 m (Mount Everest) and −429 m (Dead Sea), the geoid's variation ranges from −106 to +85 m, less than 200 m total compared to a perfect mathematical ellipsoid.[/size]

Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes.
As noted above the differences are small, ranging from −106 to +85 m.

Simpler and more complex "mathematical models" are used depending on the application.

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 07, 2016, 12:08:19 AM
"So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid)..."
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 07, 2016, 12:24:35 AM
 Do I understand correctly that N30 wants to know how earth looks like. He accepts the simple description that the earth is flat and there are no other questions. But in case of the round shape he is requesting all to be presented exactly and precisely and with evidence and proof and with the cherry on the top?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2016, 12:25:54 AM
"So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid)..."

Yes, it varies by a whole 106 m below and 85 m above the ellipsoid - big deal, when the average radius is about 6,371,000 m!

Of course, in the days before satellites, this sort of accuracy would be unheard of, but if you want your GPS to be within ±5 m it is essential.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Omega on September 07, 2016, 12:43:29 AM
"So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid)..."

Yes, it varies by a whole 106 m below and 85 m above the ellipsoid - big deal, when the average radius is about 6,371,000 m!

Of course, in the days before satellites, this sort of accuracy would be unheard of, but if you want your GPS to be within ±5 m it is essential.

But Rabinoz, I was told that satellites don't exist!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2016, 12:54:13 AM
"So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid)..."

Yes, it varies by a whole 106 m below and 85 m above the ellipsoid - big deal, when the average radius is about 6,371,000 m!

Of course, in the days before satellites, this sort of accuracy would be unheard of, but if you want your GPS to be within ±5 m it is essential.

But Rabinoz, I was told that satellites don't exist!
;D So was I!  ;D
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 07, 2016, 01:14:56 AM
"So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid)..."

Yes, it varies by a whole 106 m below and 85 m above the ellipsoid - big deal, when the average radius is about 6,371,000 m!

Of course, in the days before satellites, this sort of accuracy would be unheard of, but if you want your GPS to be within ±5 m it is essential.

But my GPS works within +/- 1m as far as I know.

SATELLITES ARE A LIE MY GPS IS TOO ACCURATE!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 07, 2016, 01:25:32 AM
Invalid! Show the calculations for the major and minor axis'! Earth is supposedly an oblate spheroid, not a sphere!


The actual shape of the earth is described as the "Geoid":
Quote from: Wikipedia
Geoid
The geoid is the shape that the surface of the oceans would take under the influence of Earth's gravitation and rotation alone, in the absence of other influences such as winds and tides. This surface is extended through the continents (such as with very narrow hypothetical canals). All points on the geoid have the same gravity potential energy (the sum of gravitational potential energy and centrifugal potential energy). The force of gravity acts everywhere perpendicular to the geoid, meaning that plumb lines point perpendicular and water levels parallel to the geoid.
Much more in Wikipedia, Geoid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid)

This is not a simple shape as it is a sphere distorted by rotation and by the unequal distribution masses around the earth.
Quote from: Wikipedia, Geoid, Description
Description
The geoid surface is irregular, unlike the reference ellipsoid, which is a mathematical idealized representation of the physical Earth, but considerably smoother than Earth's physical surface. Although the physical Earth has excursions of +8,848 m (Mount Everest) and −429 m (Dead Sea), the geoid's variation ranges from −106 to +85 m, less than 200 m total compared to a perfect mathematical ellipsoid.[/size]

Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes.
As noted above the differences are small, ranging from −106 to +85 m.

Simpler and more complex "mathematical models" are used depending on the application.

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.

Alright, so the difference from a perfect sphere is -106 to +85 meter.

If I divide 12.756 km (Diameter of Earth) by 3000 pixels (Apollo 17 Blue Marble on Wikipedia) we get 4,252 km.

So 4,2 km is a single pixel at 3000 by 3000.

A difference of -106 and +85 meter will be... less than one pixel. So you won't be able to see the minute difference.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2016, 01:56:44 AM
The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.

Alright, so the difference from a perfect sphere is -106 to +85 meter.

If I divide 12.756 km (Diameter of Earth) by 3000 pixels (Apollo 17 Blue Marble on Wikipedia) we get 4,252 km.

So 4,2 km is a single pixel at 3000 by 3000.

A difference of -106 and +85 meter will be... less than one pixel. So you won't be able to see the minute difference.
Not quite, what the statement said was not "the difference from a perfect sphere is -106 to +85 meter", but
"the geoid's variation ranges from −106 to +85 m, less than 200 m total compared to a perfect mathematical ellipsoid."

This ellipsoid (or oblate spheroid) with "distances from points on the surface to the center range from 6,353 km to 6,384 km".
From Wikipedia, Earth radius (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_radius).
That is a much bigger deviation from a perfect sphere.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 07, 2016, 07:47:58 AM
Do you really think that radius and diameter are the same things?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on September 07, 2016, 08:13:06 AM
Do you really think that radius and diameter are the same things?
I believe that's the level we are working at...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 07, 2016, 08:16:09 AM
The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.

Alright, so the difference from a perfect sphere is -106 to +85 meter.

If I divide 12.756 km (Diameter of Earth) by 3000 pixels (Apollo 17 Blue Marble on Wikipedia) we get 4,252 km.

So 4,2 km is a single pixel at 3000 by 3000.

A difference of -106 and +85 meter will be... less than one pixel. So you won't be able to see the minute difference.
Not quite, what the statement said was not "the difference from a perfect sphere is -106 to +85 meter", but
"the geoid's variation ranges from −106 to +85 m, less than 200 m total compared to a perfect mathematical ellipsoid."

This ellipsoid (or oblate spheroid) with "distances from points on the surface to the center range from 6,353 km to 6,384 km".
From Wikipedia, Earth radius (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_radius).
That is a much bigger deviation from a perfect sphere.

Sorry, English is not my native language, geometry is not my strong suit, so I have some difficulty in grasping shapes.

Ahh... so the Earth is an oblate spheroid. And the differences mentioned are the differences from a perfect oblate spheroid?

Here is an extreme exaggeration, and what the FE'ers are claiming we should see on Apollo photos:

(http://www.datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/os.png)

But like  I said with the pixel calculation before (Not that good in math, so could be wrong here) 200 meter is still MASSIVELY too small to be 1 pixel.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 07, 2016, 11:37:07 AM
"Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes."

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

I do not see any logic in this. If its so complicated that you can't calculate it with real numbers, I am unconvinced!

When was last time that " 2+2 = 4.2 " was accepted as mathematical fact!?
In fact how did the topic turn to pixels??? Do we now base our calculations on photos of earth to prove its shape?
Not acceptable!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 07, 2016, 12:02:23 PM
"Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes."

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

I do not see any logic in this. If its so complicated that you can't calculate it with real numbers, I am unconvinced!

When was last time that " 2+2 = 4.2 " was accepted as mathematical fact!?
In fact how did the topic turn to pixels??? Do we now base our calculations on photos of earth to prove its shape?
Not acceptable!

How would you go about calculating the shape of an orange?

How would you go about calculating the shape of a flat earth?

You seem to be ranting and raving over nothing of consequence whatsoever.

The earth is almost perfectly round but is in fact an oblate spheroid with bumps on it.

What is the problem about this?????
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 07, 2016, 01:19:06 PM
Well, because doing "not exactly" and "close enough" type of mathematics does not cut it for me.
At least show me how you know its a "spheroid with bumps", because all empirical evidence says otherwise!
Keeping equations from 240 B.C. with numbers used from "walking to the next city and counting the steps",
Evidently seems like nonsense to me, now that we know that earth cannot be calculated assuming it is a sphere.

Unless history is wrong, and Eratosthenes did not divide by 360 degrees in his equation to find the diameter of Earth.
Please, show me the math!

Heres an answer from a quick google search!

Quote
Ayush Sharma -reads constantly about earth and geology
"Earth is an ellipsoid , which is oblate spheroid
Earth's polar radius is smaller than equatorial radius , also it assumes earth to be homogeneous , without any mountains or trenches (like space images), though if that was true  mean sea level would coincide with it but it doesn't , Cos earth has mountains and trenches
So their is difference in local heights from ellipsoid model, the geoid model accounts for it
Geoid model is based on data collected by gravitational feild of earth
Vertical distance b.w  geoid and ellipsoid model is called geoid height it can be positive or negative.
It is important to remember that earth is not of any particular shape as it is randomly punched with trenches plains and mountains."

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=whats%20the%20difference%20between%20an%20oblate%20spheroid%20and%20a%20perfect%20oblate%20spheroid


Err.... Am I supposed to accept that?
Really?
Exactly why is this so confusing if someone from 240 BC could calculate it?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 07, 2016, 01:26:38 PM
Lol n30 is batshitcrazy  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 07, 2016, 01:48:51 PM
Well, because doing "not exactly" and "close enough" type of mathematics does not cut it for me.
This type of math does not sit with you but - here we have flat earth without any math and unable to determine in any way its size and shape - this kind of no math sits very well?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2016, 03:30:38 PM
"Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes."

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

I do not see any logic in this. If its so complicated that you can't calculate it with real numbers, I am unconvinced!

When was last time that " 2+2 = 4.2 " was accepted as mathematical fact!?
In fact how did the topic turn to pixels??? Do we now base our calculations on photos of earth to prove its shape?
Not acceptable!

You "do not see any logic in this. If its so complicated that you can't calculate it with real numbers," you are "unconvinced!"

Well, tough cheese, Mr N30! You cannot calculate the shape of the a physical object like the earth, you have to measure it!

And nowhere did I say we "now base our calculations on photos of earth to prove its shape"!

In earlier times some relatively small measurement was taken, and extrapolated to estimate the dimensions of the whole earth.

Erosthanes measured a distance and a latitude spacing (from sun elevation) and extrapolated to the whole circumference.

Al Biruni measured the "dip angle"[1] from a measured altitude to the horizon, used that to calculate the "curvature" and hence the radius. His measurement, done around 1,000 AD, was probably the most accurate measurement till recent times. It was amazingly (and maybe fortuitously) accurate, though he was a meticulous surveyor.

More recently (say from 1,600's on) a baseline would be surveyed in distance and latitude separation, and extrapolated to 360° (basically Erosthanes method). This has been done at various latitudes (from around Newton's time) to find the "ellipticity".

It is only comparatively recently, by using satellites, that more direct and accurate measurements of shape of the Earth have been possibile.

But, you cannot "calculate" the shape of a (very slightly) irregular object like the Earth.

Now it's your turn. Show me your precise calculations for
         the circumference of the flat earth,
         the circumference at the equator of the flat earth and
         the height of the sun.


[1] By the way Al Biruni's dip angle measurement gives the lie to the Flat Earth claim that "the horizon always rises to eye-level". It doesn't.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Charming Anarchist on September 07, 2016, 03:54:39 PM
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
--- because people are starting to smell the globullshit from across the oceans. 
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2016, 06:30:33 PM
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
--- because people are starting to smell the globullshit from across the oceans.
;D ;) Wouldn't you be more comfortable in Australia where we all stand on our heads?  ;) ::)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 07, 2016, 07:29:25 PM
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
--- because people are starting to smell the globullshit from across the oceans.

Imagine if Earth was flat and you could actualy SEE it across that ocean.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 07, 2016, 07:31:48 PM
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein

Do you think he said that as a description, or as an instruction?
Nobody ever changed the facts before him, so he had to give his permission to people?
Or he just noted people's behavior?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 07, 2016, 09:47:54 PM
Well, because doing "not exactly" and "close enough" type of mathematics does not cut it for me.
At least show me how you know its a "spheroid with bumps", because all empirical evidence says otherwise!

The oblate spheroid empirical evidence has been overwhelming for hundreds of years.

The French of all people confirmed by astronomical observation by 1735 in a number of expeditions around Europe and to Peru the Earth was best described as an oblate spheroid. 

(Even in 1786, it was possible to survey by triangulation the surface of the Earth without reference to the stars, and show the Earth was not flat)

At the end of the day why does the exact precise shape matter to you??    Measuring the shape of the Earth to show it is not flat is something children can do with a bit of assistance.






Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: well rounded flat earther on September 08, 2016, 09:10:53 AM
Well, because doing "not exactly" and "close enough" type of mathematics does not cut it for me

N30 will not accept vague answers guys. He will leave no stone unturned in his quest for truth. Except for all of those stones that are covering fake "evidence" of a globe earth. Those stones can stay put. They are shills and they're part of the conspiracy. How much are they paying these stones anyway? Pretty brilliant if you ask me. Planting fake evidence under stones. Sinister. But brilliant.

Keep up the good work N30. Don't let facts or rational argument get in the way of your pursuit for truth. You're an inspiration to us all.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 08, 2016, 10:46:31 AM

"They are shills and they're part of the conspiracy."
"...covering fake "evidence" of a globe earth."

At the end of the day why does the exact precise shape matter to you??    Measuring the shape of the Earth to show it is not flat is something children can do..."

"How much are they paying these stones anyway?"

"I get 100.- per hour."

"N30 will not accept vague answers guys."
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 08, 2016, 11:12:50 AM


At the end of the day why does the exact precise shape matter to you??    Measuring the shape of the Earth to show it is not flat is something children can do..."

With a bit of assistance a child can measure the earth to show it is not flat.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 08, 2016, 01:40:45 PM
With a bit of "assistance" a child can be made to believe anything!
Alrighty then, please, prove that you are not just hocking "facts" to steer people away from finding REAL answers.
Keep in mind, I still have not seen any calculations proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid with "bumps".
Exactly where can I find evidence that in 1735 France proved an oblate Earth? This is what I found...

Quote
"They completed their survey measurements by 1739, measuring the length of a meridian arc of three degrees at the Equator. They did this in spite of earlier news that the expedition to Lapland led by Maupertuis had already finished their work and had proven that the Earth is oblate, i.e., flattened at the poles. However, problems with astronomical observations kept them in Ecuador several more years."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Geodesic_Mission

Unless you can prove otherwise, there is no information about the methods they used, or their calculations!
Precisely how did they prove Earth was oblate?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 08, 2016, 02:07:25 PM
"Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes."

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

I do not see any logic in this. If its so complicated that you can't calculate it with real numbers, I am unconvinced!

When was last time that " 2+2 = 4.2 " was accepted as mathematical fact!?
In fact how did the topic turn to pixels??? Do we now base our calculations on photos of earth to prove its shape?
Not acceptable!

Greetings N30,

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/z787fpp4bu0osjz/there-1.jpg?dl=1)

Lets look at the Blue marble from Apollo 17, are you suggesting we should should see Earth there as an ellipsoid? the resolution of the file on Wikipedia is 3000 by 3000, not enough to see the tiny difference between the polar diameter and equator diameter, which makes Earth slightly different from a perfect sphere.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 08, 2016, 04:09:21 PM
I am not interested in looking at doctored photos from NASA.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.
Mathematic equations from 240 BC that are now invalid and fruitless expeditions from 1735 do not sway me.

Not only has my question been unanswered, but you seem to have disregarded my last post.
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

(https://s9.postimg.org/bz3a0mmrz/Denpressure_Comic.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 08, 2016, 04:47:23 PM
I am not interested in looking at doctored photos from NASA.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.
Mathematic equations from 240 BC that are now invalid and fruitless expeditions from 1735 do not sway me.

Not only has my question been unanswered, but you seem to have disregarded my last post.
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/z787fpp4bu0osjz/there-1.jpg?dl=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/v81gnkp7r8p0nae/WHAT.jpg?dl=1)
Hello again,

You have no interest in supposedly doctored photos from NASA, but bring it up in an argument against RE. Claiming that we should see the oblate spheroid in the photo. If you want to debunk an Apollo photo, feel free to bring up arguments and evidence, there are various Apollo topics for that. I don't want to get too off-topic and start that here.

I pointed out with math that the difference is too small to be be seen on Earth photos that I know, even at 10.000 by 10.000 pixels a difference of 200 meter is too little.

Feel free to point out if there is anything wrong with my calculation, one learns from mistakes.

I didn't try to answer your other questions because I don't know enough about them. I have not researched how to calculate the shape and diameter of the Earth, I am obviously not going to say something without having done research first. But that does not keep me from contributing against other arguments I know answers for.

Cheers,
Snake
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 08, 2016, 08:28:13 PM
"French minister of the navy understood that it was necessary to know
the exact shape of Earth in order to accurately navigate the oceans."

From: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a6674/the-remarkable-story-of-the-first-accurate-measure-of-the-earth/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a6674/the-remarkable-story-of-the-first-accurate-measure-of-the-earth/)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 08, 2016, 08:59:42 PM
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious.   

The basic shape was known thousands of years ago by observation of the stars while travelling.  The simple maths involved totally does not work for a flat surface.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.

How can you possibly be interested in maths and science and not realise that already????

However, to know the exact precise shape of the curve you were travelling on, required the inventions of technologies not available thousands of years ago.   All you do is travel to say Finland in the North and Peru in the South, as done by the French, and at each location you measure latitude using the stars and measure the distance between two points of latitude.    In Finland they measured the distance between Tornio church in the South at 65 degrees latitude and Kittisvaara hill in the North at 66 degrees latitude.

But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??   It is just more or less academic for most people.  Particularly those who do not even have a basic understanding of maths and science.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Globetrotter on September 08, 2016, 09:31:06 PM
I am not interested in looking at doctored photos from NASA.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.
Mathematic equations from 240 BC that are now invalid and fruitless expeditions from 1735 do not sway me.

Not only has my question been unanswered, but you seem to have disregarded my last post.
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

Having the experience from all over of this forum, just any proof "do not sway" Flat Earthers. And it seems that what "all a child can do" and that child can understand, a Flat Earther can't.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 08, 2016, 10:00:45 PM
"You have no interest in supposedly doctored photos from NASA, but bring it up in an argument against RE. Claiming that we should see the oblate spheroid in the photo." 

(I never brought up the Blue Marble photo it up nor did I say we should see distortion in that photo.)

"I didn't try to answer your other questions because I don't know enough about them."

"I have not researched how to calculate the shape and diameter of the Earth."

"But that does not keep me from..."(LYING)
(https://s16.postimg.org/vty8b0c2d/Satan_Snake.jpg)

"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 08, 2016, 11:07:24 PM
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

You mean apart from the real number brought up in this thread, numbers that have resulted from actual measurements?

Apart from the numbers that are pretty easy to find in text books and all over the web?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 08, 2016, 11:42:00 PM
"You have no interest in supposedly doctored photos from NASA, but bring it up in an argument against RE. Claiming that we should see the oblate spheroid in the photo." 

(I never brought up the Blue Marble photo it up nor did I say we should see distortion in that photo.)

"I didn't try to answer your other questions because I don't know enough about them."

"I have not researched how to calculate the shape and diameter of the Earth."

"But that does not keep me from..."(LYING)
(https://s16.postimg.org/vty8b0c2d/Satan_Snake.jpg)

"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

Ah, I simply tried to explain your confusion here:

Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.


Blue Marble from Apollo 17 is one of the most known photos, so I used that as an example.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 08, 2016, 11:53:00 PM
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!
So you claim  that you have equation to prove that the Earth is flat? Let us all see it then. Why do you hide it?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 09, 2016, 12:08:22 AM
Apollo 17's 'Blue Marble' isn't the best example because of the angle at which the image was taken - one pole is completely invisible while the equator is running almost along the top of the Earth as shown.

Far better to use photos taken by things like the ATS satellites in geostationary orbit. However as already pointed out, the difference is so small it is unlikely to be noticeable, like this one:

(http://i67.tinypic.com/1zec9oh.jpg)

The whole 'oblate spheroid' thing is just a bit of nerdy "did you know" thing you can throw into a conversation over a beer to impress your friends.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 12:25:09 AM
"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

>>"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

Once again you are shown to be cheating to avoid reality.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 09, 2016, 01:11:40 AM
ERATOSTHENES

"He properly "assumed" that the Sun's rays are virtually parallel (since the Sun is so far away)

"He calculated the circumference of the Earth to be 250,000 stadia. Exactly how long a stadia is is unknown, so his accuracy is uncertain"

"Conveniently, 7.2 degrees is 1/50th of a full circle ( 50 x 7.2° = 360° ).... Eratosthenes understood!"

"Here's where things get a bit tricky. Eratosthenes had the distance between the two cities measured. His records show that the distance was found to be 5,000 stadia.Unfortunately, there was not a universal standard length for the stadion; so we don't know exactly which version of the stadion Eratosthenes used, and therefore are not exactly sure how accurate his solution was. He may have been correct to within less than 1%, a remarkable accomplishment!

"what assumptions would they be exactly?


"He invented the ... sphere"


quoted text cited below
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Mass.shtml
http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 09, 2016, 01:17:24 AM
"He invented the ... sphere"


quoted text cited below

http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html

Not what the quote meant:

Quote
He invented the armillary sphere, a mechanical device used by early astronomers to demonstrate and predict the apparent motions of the stars in the sky. He also compiled a star catalog that included 675 stars. His measurement of the circumference of Earth was highly respected in his day, and set the standard for many years thereafter.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 01:17:42 AM
ERATOSTHENES

"He properly "assumed" that the Sun's rays are virtually parallel (since the Sun is so far away)

"He calculated the circumference of the Earth to be 250,000 stadia. Exactly how long a stadia is is unknown, so his accuracy is uncertain"

"Conveniently, 7.2 degrees is 1/50th of a full circle ( 50 x 7.2° = 360° ).... Eratosthenes understood!"

"Here's where things get a bit tricky. Eratosthenes had the distance between the two cities measured. His records show that the distance was found to be 5,000 stadia.Unfortunately, there was not a universal standard length for the stadion; so we don't know exactly which version of the stadion Eratosthenes used, and therefore are not exactly sure how accurate his solution was. He may have been correct to within less than 1%, a remarkable accomplishment!

"what assumptions would they be exactly?


Mate, if you today go out yourself and measure the angle of the horizon to the stars from the far north to the equator you will find it is not possible to put those observations onto a piece of paper if the surface you took the measurements from was flat.

The only way a flattie can ram it into their reality is by assuming the real angles to the stars were not actually measured and so the whole exercise was a waste of time.

Meanwhile multiple observers can measure the same star at the same time and still get the same answers, but for flatties it does not matter.  Faith in their assumption of 'bendylight' is sufficent.


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 09, 2016, 01:26:21 AM
I am not interested in looking at doctored photos from NASA.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.
Mathematic equations from 240 BC that are now invalid and fruitless expeditions from 1735 do not sway me.

Not only has my question been unanswered, but you seem to have disregarded my last post.
Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

You wonder that no can one show you "an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid".

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar rsdius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have be determined by measurement.

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

If you really are interested you read
Wikipedia, History of geodesy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy) or
GG612 Lecture 3: EARTH’S FIGURE, GRAVITY, AND GEOID (http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/FACULTY/conrad/classes/GG612_S11/Lecture_03.pdf), mind you there some sums!

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).
It is only very accurate measurements that can determine this sort thing.

Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us you simple mathematical proof that the earth is flat.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 09, 2016, 01:34:42 AM
Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us you simple mathematical proof that the earth is flat.

YES!

FLAT  EARTH COMMUNITY, FUND SEVERAL ROCKETS! LAUNCH THEM FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.

RECORD THE SUN! THE MOON! THE DOME! THE FLAT EARTH!

SHOW US GOD'S INFINITE WORK!

PUT SOMETHING AGAINST THE DOME, RUN EXPERIMENTS, MEASURE ITS COMPOSITION! SHOW US THE TRUE SUN, RUN EXPERIMENTS ON IT, SHOOT PROBES INSIDE IT. LAND ON THE MOON!

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 01:38:02 AM
YES!

FLAT  EARTH COMMUNITY, FUND SEVERAL ROCKETS!

It would be cheaper to buy one of these:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Using_sextant_swing.gif/300px-Using_sextant_swing.gif)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 09, 2016, 01:51:02 AM

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar radius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the Earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).



Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof



Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 02:10:26 AM
But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

I will, for the time being, assume there is some intelligent purpose to your game.

What real figures and real measurements do you want to see?

You began this thread with the following, my answers to you in red:

Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
When measured, the earth is shown to be very slightly differently shaped to a true sphere.   The difference is a few tens of kilometers when the earth is 40,000 km in circumference.  It looks round but it has been measured to be very slightly not round
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
A photo will shows the earths shape which looks round, but has been found by measurement to be very slightly differently shaped to a true sphere
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Correct
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.
All equations that need to consider the exact shape of the Earth are re-evaluated when better measurements become available. For example, the GPS system must know the shape of the World or the results are wrong by the amount of error that exists.
Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
by measurement, Earth has been found to be slightly differently shaped to a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

By measurement, Earth has been found to be slightly differently shaped to a perfect oblate spheroid


What part of this is not understood by you, or needs to be clarified to you, so you can understand what is being said to you?


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 09, 2016, 03:06:28 AM
But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

I will, for the time being, assume there is some intelligent purpose to your game.

What real figures and real measurements do you want to see?
He wants to see measurements and math for flat earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 09, 2016, 03:44:12 AM
The thickness of both an infinite plane (see our blog) and a finite disk (see: A.C. Tort) has been done. As has the diameter in both cases.
I read your blog but can you give a link to this A.C. Tort?  And still, from where you get all your values which you use - A, p, m? And yes, you may be more versed in math than I am but I've done my share of integrals, surface integrals and volume integrals in high school and I don't get what is the difference between usual surface integral (double integral) and your closed surface integral? Also integrals are done usually on finite surface. Sure, you divide this finite surface to infinitesimal parts but the thing you do integrals over is finite. How do you do your integrals over infinite area? As I get it you just say that if I divide area into infinitesimal parts then I can do integrals and get desired result and in the same time ignoring that the area you are dividing is not finite but is infinite.
John Davis, maybe you can clarify these things for me?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 09, 2016, 11:05:59 AM
He wants to see measurements and math for flat *Globe* Earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 09, 2016, 11:25:13 AM
He wants to see measurements and math for flat *Globe* Earth but as no one can provide them then he nitpicks on measurements and math that can be provided. You can't pick on something that doesn't exist.
So, as you claim that you can provide something for flat earth then please, go ahead. Or all you can do is quote others and fiddle with quotes as you can't actually say anything for yourself.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 09, 2016, 11:36:13 AM
Guys, n30 is batshit crazy. Just ignore him.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 12:31:38 PM
Guys, n30 is batshit crazy. Just ignore him.

If we are going to ignore crazy people there is not much point coming to the flat earth society
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: well rounded flat earther on September 09, 2016, 12:37:43 PM
That would be like going to the zoo and ignoring the animals.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 09, 2016, 12:39:37 PM
The last three posts are a classic case of argumentum ad hominem, therefore your logic is invalid.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: well rounded flat earther on September 09, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
N30 is an expert on logical fallacies and always makes sure to avoid them when making his arguments.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on September 09, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
N30 is an expert on logical fallacies and always makes sure to avoid them when making his arguments.

Logical fallacy implies that there was logic to begin with.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 09, 2016, 07:33:37 PM

Well "proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid" is not a mathematical problem, but a measurement problem.

You can't prove that some object is a cube with some equation, what you have to do is measure the object and demonstrate that all sides are equal and all faces are squares.

Likewise with the earth Newton did postulate that the earth should have a larger equatorial radius than polar radius, and many mathematicians have calculated what that difference should be.

But the real figures have *yet to* be determined by measurement. (*wow*...)

Those so-called "fruitless expeditions from 1735" that did not "sway you" were just part of many measurements of the length of one degree of latitude at various latitudes.

So yes, you can calculate the theoretical "figure of the earth", but it needs to be measured to determine the actual value.

Of course, if you read my earlier posts you will have noted that the Earth is not even a perfect ellipsoid (oblate spheroid).

Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof


I repeat:
Now, maybe you would be good enough to give us *your* simple mathematical proof
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 09, 2016, 08:40:38 PM
The last three posts are a classic case of argumentum ad hominem, therefore your logic is invalid.

The size and shape of the Earth has been determined by measurement and evidently either:

1.  The Earths measured shape creates a problem for you or

2. You are a troll or

3. There is some other reason why you behaving in such a strange manner where you seem to believe you can blatantly cheat without consequence.


Some of your cheating:

1. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
"Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious."

"But who really cares what exact precise shape the world is??"

"It is just more or less academic for most people"

"The simple maths..."

"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

How can you possibly be interested in the simple maths indeed...
Actually, thats exactly what I am asking about in this thread.
There seems some errors in the current way we calculate the shape of Earth.
So I addressed them in this topic already.

Obviously, neither do you have the capability to answer my questions, or the intellect to read them.
Finding information about how humanity "discovered" the shape of Earth makes me giggle now.
Funny how absolutely none of it gives real numbers and always assume Earth to be a sphere.

>>"How can you possibly be interested in maths...?"

Once again you are shown to be cheating to avoid reality.

Exactly why can no one show me an equation proving Earth to be an oblate spheroid, after all a child can do it.
Oh... wait, maybe the reason is because it is flat!

Your obsession with the precise shape of the world is very highly suspicious.   

The basic shape was known thousands of years ago by observation of the stars while travelling.  The simple maths involved totally does not work for a flat surface.

All that matters to me is real math, and real science.

How can you possibly be interested in maths and science and not realise that already????


2.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



(https://s11.postimg.org/hpeke8kqb/BB_frame_20.jpg)
(https://s22.postimg.org/jxx0ol4fl/BB_Frame_320.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/2nDSGoG.png)

These photos prove that the line did NOT move over a period of three minutes


"The intelligence agencies use the conspiracy media to disseminate false information..."

The video shows the line has moved.

And you pretend it has not moved

That is just weird.

3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any more lies you make that involve me will be added to the list.   
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Globetrotter on September 10, 2016, 09:40:49 AM
3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any more lies you make that involve me will be added to the list.

@Aliveandkicking, I admire you to have nerve to talk to childish people. You must be good training animals.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 11:31:00 AM
Below are the pictures posted of the video.
Obviously one should watch the video before further speculation.
Aliveandkicking claims to see the line rotating. I claimed it stayed vertical, which proves it to be man made!



Original Comparison (with added reference lines)
(https://s9.postimg.org/sg938cezz/PROOF_NOT_A_SUN_BEAM.jpg)



Omega subsequently posted a photoshopped version, but all he did was prove that it stayed vertical!

"Fixed that for you:"
(https://s15.postimg.org/rdadev0rf/Evidence_Of_Photoshop_2.jpg)


Only by now, Alivendkicking realized the mistake being made, and he tried to correct his NASA buddy.


"Cool can you do it for the same angle of the lamp please."  The line rotates during the video".

"Rotated and enhanced the contrast."
(https://s22.postimg.org/9im78kj2p/Evidence_Of_Photoshop_3.jpg)


Look at how these incidents of fraud correlate with the first images of the "curves" of Earth!

(https://s15.postimg.org/s6cghfzzv/WSPG_50.jpg)
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1298.html


Wake up and smell the NASA
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 11:43:16 AM
Below are the pictures posted of the video.
Obviously one should watch the video before further speculation.
Aliveandkicking claims to see the line rotating. I claimed it stayed vertical, which proves it to be man made!


Original Comparison (with added reference lines)
(https://s9.postimg.org/sg938cezz/PROOF_NOT_A_SUN_BEAM.jpg)

1. You are blind or

2. You are stupid or

3. You are a troll



Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 12:41:53 PM
"...please be polite!"
"It is evident you are not thinking about the topic..."

Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped... Thats just weird.

The moon is egg shaped.  The larger end of the egg shape is facing the earth

Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon?
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 10, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped ... Thats just weird.
Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the
current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 01:27:21 PM
"...please be polite!"
"It is evident you are not thinking about the topic..."

Also, you claim that the Moon is egg shaped... Thats just weird.

The moon is egg shaped.  The larger end of the egg shape is facing the earth

Should not the forces of "gravity" create the same shape for both Earth and Moon?
If not, why?
Finding conflicting ideas in the current model supports that an alternative theory be proposed.

Neither the Earth or the Moon are liquids so we not expect their shape to be only created by gravity and rotation.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 02:11:55 PM
Supposedly, Earth bulges south the equator more than above, yet, the moon bulges sideways?
All things considered...
What causes that?

(https://s21.postimg.org/6we9srso7/Mumbo_Jumbo.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 02:32:36 PM
Supposedly, Earth bulges south the equator more than above, yet, the moon bulges sideways?
All things considered...
What causes that?

(https://s21.postimg.org/6we9srso7/Mumbo_Jumbo.jpg)

Just because we can measure something does not mean we know what causes it.     Oil was found by creating horizontal gravity maps by measurement over a hundred years ago.   Today we can map features under glaciers from an aeroplane using gravimeters.        A bullet falls lower when shot West than when shot East.     Even if the theory of gravity were to change the observations remain unchanged.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 05:32:07 PM
"Even if the theory of gravity were to change the observations remain unchanged."

So how would all those satellites and the ISS work without gravity? Would one observe them falling from the sky?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 10, 2016, 07:27:53 PM
"Even if the theory of gravity were to change the observations remain unchanged."

So how would all those satellites and the ISS work without gravity? Would one observe them falling from the sky?
Aliveandkicking said nothing about being "without gravity". He said "if the theory of gravity were to change".
By "theory of gravity", presumably he means the "theory of the cause of gravity".

But "without gravity", why would they be "falling from the sky?"  Gravity is what keeps them from "flying away".
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 07:36:11 PM
"Gravity is what keeps them from "flying away".

So would I observe them flying away?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 10, 2016, 07:48:13 PM
So would I observe them flying away?
I couldn't care less what you might or might not observe. Anything I say will be twisted by your deceptive mind anyway, bye, bye.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 10, 2016, 07:48:48 PM
"Gravity is what keeps them from "flying away".

So would I observe them flying away?

Without gravity everything would fly away.
Actually the Earth wouldn't condensed from "stelar dust" in the first place.
Neither would Sun get compressed from such ammount of Hydrogen to start fusion under pressure in the core.

But if we had gravity and now we lose it, you would fly away from Earth together with all of us and everything else.
Centrifugal force would spread everything around in the shape of ever-stretching disc.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 09:25:39 PM
"Even if the theory of gravity were to change the observations remain unchanged."

So how would all those satellites and the ISS work without gravity? Would one observe them falling from the sky?

Apples fall to the ground with our without Gravity.   Nobody needs to know what Gravity is.  The observations that matter were made a very long time ago.

Just because we can measure something does not mean we know what causes it.     Oil was found by creating horizontal "gravity" maps by measurement over a hundred years ago.   Today we can map features under glaciers from an aeroplane using "gravi"meters.        A bullet falls lower when shot West than when shot East.     Even if the theory of "gravity" were to change the observations remain unchanged.

"Gravity is what keeps them from "flying away".

So would I observe them flying away?

Unless you have a very low IQ you are shown yet again to be lying.   The meaning of what I said was sufficiently clear and Rabinoz went on to explain his (correct) interpretation of what I said where your answer reflects stupidity or another one of your lies.

Why is it necessary for you to be seen to be lying and cheating during these conversations?   Why are you so strongly refusing to allow reality to be revealed to you or childishly pretending what is commonly observed is impossible?   We all know things fall to the ground.

"Even if the theory of gravity were to change the observations remain unchanged."

So how would all those satellites and the ISS work without gravity? Would one observe them falling from the sky?

Nobody needs to know what "gravity" is.   Attacking the theory of gravity, as if it can posssibly change anything whatsoever,  is just a typical shit for brains flat earth response to attempt to create a personal private reality which makes no sense whatsoever.   


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 10, 2016, 11:09:40 PM
Woah there Mr. Insults! The government might be reading your posts!
Allow me to explain the necessity for the simple questions.
Keep an open mind, but say, if the "theory of gravity" was changed,
Entirely new laws of physics explained why things go up, and must come down.
Upon that instance, it would become clear that "orbiting" via "gravity" is impossible.
Please explain what would keep satellites flying around us in constant circles?

"Nobody needs to know what "gravity" is."

"We all know things fall to the ground."
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Globetrotter on September 10, 2016, 11:23:03 PM
Woah there Mr. Insults! The government might be reading your posts!
Allow me to explain the necessity for the simple questions.
Keep an open mind, but say, if the "theory of gravity" was changed,
Entirely new laws of physics explained why things go up, and must come down.
Upon that instance, it would become clear that "orbiting" via "gravity" is impossible.
Please explain what would keep satellites flying around us in constant circles?

"Nobody needs to know what "gravity" is."

"We all know things fall to the ground."

Try Google first: a lot of info for uneducated kids, like you. What about this for the beginning?:
http://www.universetoday.com/93077/how-satellites-stay-in-orbit/

Oops! Sorry. I've just checked your profile, you are not so kid. But look/feel so young anyway...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 10, 2016, 11:26:44 PM


You're such an expert, please explain the underlying cause of electrostatic or magnetic attraction.

You ask what if gravity did not exist? Probably we would not exist.

I think it fair to say that we know what gravitation does and we know how to calculate it's effect quite accurately.
It has been measured and demonstrated quite sufficiently to be confident of its reality.

We can calculate the effect of the moon and sun's gravitation (it is not at all as simple as it looks) and get quite good agreement with the diurnal gravitation measured.

But, we are not yet sure of its underlying cause. I certainly won't claim to know.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 11:54:11 PM
if the "theory of gravity" was changed,
 explain what would keep satellites flying around us in constant circles?

"Nobody needs to know what "gravity" is."

"We all know things fall to the ground."


What aspect of this simple truth is beyond your comprehension??
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 10, 2016, 11:58:30 PM
You ask what if gravity did not exist? Probably we would not exist.

He is not saying things do not fall to the ground.

He is saying if the modern theory of gravity was wrong, then (somehow) our observed reality would change.   Ie he is claiming what we in fact know by observation is something calculated or claimed to be true because of claims made by a a theory.

Yes he is talking complete shite but it seems he believes what he is saying.

So using his logic if the theory of gravity is wrong then (for some reason) a satellite would not be in free fall around the Earth and it would fly off into space, even though we all know things fall to the ground,   so by this strange twisted untrue logic the only evidence for satellites is a theory.

Yes it is totally fucked up but that is what he appears to be saying.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 11, 2016, 11:06:38 AM
You ask what if gravity did not exist? Probably we would not exist.

Laughing out loud.

He is saying if the modern theory of gravity was wrong, then (somehow) our observed reality would change.

I never said that.

So using his logic if the theory of gravity is wrong then (for some reason) a satellite would not be in free fall around the Earth and it would fly off into space, even though we all know things fall to the ground

Its one of those two options. Without "gravity", things must either fall or rise. There is no "perfect orbit".

Quite simply I am stating that we are being lied to, and satellites are not what we are told.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 11, 2016, 11:18:57 AM


You ask what if gravity did not exist? Probably we would not exist.

Laughing out loud.

He is saying if the modern theory of gravity was wrong, then (somehow) our observed reality would change.

I never said that.

So using his logic if the theory of gravity is wrong then (for some reason) a satellite would not be in free fall around the Earth and it would fly off into space, even though we all know things fall to the ground

Its one of those two options. Without "gravity", things must either fall or rise. There is no "perfect orbit".

Quite simply I am stating that we are being lied to, and satellites are not what we are told.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

We know things fall. 

>>Its one of those two options. Without "gravity", things must either fall or rise. There is no "perfect orbit".

What are you talking about?

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 11, 2016, 11:54:05 AM
Quote
"An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force."

http://teachertech.rice.edu/Participants/louviere/Newton/law1.html

Quote
"These forces of inertia and gravity have to be perfectly balanced for an orbit to happen"

An object with a lot of mass goes forward and wants to keep going forward; however, the gravity of another body in space pulls it in. There is a continuous tug-of-war between the one object wanting to go forward and away and the other wanting to pull it in.

"If inertia or momentum is much weaker than the pull of gravity, the object will be pulled into the other one completely and crash."

http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/1-what-causes-an-orbit.html

How can there be a "perfect balance" if the forces of "gravity" are constantly pulling "orbiting" objects toward Earth?
On top of that, what gives a satellite unlimited momentum to combat said forces of "gravity"?
Why don't the forces of "gravity" slow down objects after a while, causing them to crash?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 11, 2016, 12:23:35 PM
Quote
"An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force."

http://teachertech.rice.edu/Participants/louviere/Newton/law1.html

Quote
"These forces of inertia and gravity have to be perfectly balanced for an orbit to happen"

An object with a lot of mass goes forward and wants to keep going forward; however, the gravity of another body in space pulls it in. There is a continuous tug-of-war between the one object wanting to go forward and away and the other wanting to pull it in.

"If inertia or momentum is much weaker than the pull of gravity, the object will be pulled into the other one completely and crash."

http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/1-what-causes-an-orbit.html

How can there be a "perfect balance" if the forces of "gravity" are constantly pulling "orbiting" objects toward Earth?
On top of that, what gives a satellite unlimited momentum to combat said forces of "gravity"?
Why don't the forces of "gravity" slow down objects after a while, causing them to crash?

The idea or orbiting is very simple.  The hard part is the technological challenges of building the equipment.

If you go too fast then you leave Earth because you have escaped the 'pull of the Earth'

If you go too slow then you crash back to Earth.

>>On top of that, what gives a satellite unlimited momentum to combat said forces of "gravity"?

A satellite does not have "unlimited momentum".   It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth

>>Why don't the forces of "gravity" slow down objects after a while, causing them to crash?

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down.   You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Bom Tishop on September 11, 2016, 12:34:58 PM
Just a quick observation.....

It has come to me the possibility that n30 might be the heiwa of flat earth.

Argue at your own peril...

Remember wrestle with a pig and both will get dirty...but the pig loves it
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 11, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Just a quick observation.....

It has come to me the possibility that n30 might be the heiwa of flat earth.

Argue at your own peril...

Remember wrestle with a pig and both will get dirty...but the pig loves it

Thanks.  I can see what is going on.  The unknown part is whether or not the undesirable behaviour is going to continue or at least remain at a managable level to enable a fact based conversation between adults
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 11, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth.

So when does it get pulled back to Earth?

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down. You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.

If an astronaut jumps on the moon, because of the lack of atmosphere, they should fly away?

Quote
"...The lunar atmosphere has less than 1,000,000 molecules in the same volume. That still sounds like a lot, but it is what we consider to be a very good vacuum on Earth."

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/lunar-atmosphere.html#.V9W1_-YrKRs
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: TheRealBillNye on September 11, 2016, 01:21:32 PM
It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth.

So when does it get pulled back to Earth?

Space is not a perfect vacuum. There are small particles in the near vacuum. As these particles strike the satellite, it decelerates slowly. If the satellite is slowed sufficiently, it will eventually collide with the earth.

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down. You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.

If an astronaut jumps on the moon, because of the lack of atmosphere, they should fly away?[/quote]

If he jumps at escape velocity, yes.

Pretty sure he was talking about orbits, though. I suggest you learn Newton's First Law.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 11, 2016, 01:45:30 PM
It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth.

So when does it get pulled back to Earth?

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down. You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.

If an astronaut jumps on the moon, because of the lack of atmosphere, they should fly away?

Quote
"...The lunar atmosphere has less than 1,000,000 molecules in the same volume. That still sounds like a lot, but it is what we consider to be a very good vacuum on Earth."

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/lunar-atmosphere.html#.V9W1_-YrKRs

The lengths you go to avoid reality are most odd.

You know you were talking about orbits, so cheating again by talking about humans jumping a few feet is supposed to achieve what exactly?   

Or perhaps this is like a computer game to you,  and getting me to keep replying just gives you a hard on like you have nothing better to do with your life other than masturbate in public?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 11, 2016, 03:26:49 PM
It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth.

So when does it get pulled back to Earth?

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down. You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.

If an astronaut jumps on the moon, because of the lack of atmosphere, they should fly away?

Quote
"...The lunar atmosphere has less than 1,000,000 molecules in the same volume. That still sounds like a lot, but it is what we consider to be a very good vacuum on Earth."

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/lunar-atmosphere.html#.V9W1_-YrKRs
Question for you: Are you a complete idiot or an incomplete idiot? Yes or no, please!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 11, 2016, 06:16:18 PM
It just needs sufficient momentum so it can travel around the Earth before it is pulled back to Earth.

So when does it get pulled back to Earth?

When it loses speed and centrifugal force becomes lower than gravitational pull.

The pull of the Earth has no ability to slow you down. You get slowed down by passing thru the atmosphere or other matter that is in your way.

If an astronaut jumps on the moon, because of the lack of atmosphere, they should fly away?


Lack of atmosphere would not slow him down, but Moon's gravity would pull him back.
If Moon was smooth, and he could run fast enough (about 1.4 kilometers per second),
he would eventually start orbiting Moon at the altitude of foot or two. :)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 11, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
So let me get this straight. The pull of gravity cannot slow me down. It is only the atmosphere.
Unless there is an atmosphere, say, around the ISS, one would fly away if they jumped off right?
Now, why not on the moon? If gravity is not what slows them down, what brings them back to the surface?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 11, 2016, 06:30:48 PM
So let me get this straight. The pull of gravity cannot slow me down. It is only the atmosphere.
Unless there is an atmosphere, say, around the ISS, one would fly away if they jumped off right?
Now, why not on the moon? If gravity is not what slows them down, what brings them back to the surface?

You mix two things.
(Deliberately?)

Gravity pulls vertically, so it can't slow down orbiting things horizontally.
Those two directions are perpendicular.

If you jump on Moon, you move verticaly, against gravity that pulls you back.
If Moon had smooth surface, and you run there 1500 yards per second, you will eventualy
gain enough centrifugal force to start orbiting Moon at the altitude of foot or two.

If you jump on ISS where you already have centrifugal force to counter gravity,
then your jump just adds a bit MORE to speed that you ALREADY HAVE.
Unless you jump from ISS towards Earth, in which case you fall to the ground.

~~~~~

One more detail:

When you orbit Earth or Moon, you move in circle,
but in every point of circle the tangent is perpendicular to vertical
(and vertical is toward center of gravity of Earth or Moon that you orbit).
So, in your orbiting circle, you are in every point moving horizontally.

EDIT: Jumping from ISS up or down to fly away or fall to the ground is beyond human abilities.
Same as running 1500 yards per second on Moon.
In ordinary case you will only separate from the ISS and on your personal orbit you will start to oscillate around ISS orbit.
Jumping forward or backward would slightly expand or compress your personal orbit on the other side of it.
Jumping aside would slightly change the angle of your personal orbit.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 11, 2016, 11:00:52 PM
So let me get this straight. The pull of gravity cannot slow me down. It is only the atmosphere.
Unless there is an atmosphere, say, around the ISS, one would fly away if they jumped off right?
Now, why not on the moon? If gravity is not what slows them down, what brings them back to the surface?

The conversation has become muddled up.   I was attempting to simplify something which is not simple, where you wonderered why the pull of the earth did not cause a satellite to slow down so it crashed to the Earth.

>> So let me get this straight.   The pull of gravity cannot slow me down. It is only the atmosphere.

That would only be true for a perfectly round orbit. No orbits are perfectly round.

If your distance to the Earth is increasing you will slow down.  If your distance is decreasing you will speed up.   Most orbits are not perfectly round.  The satellite is not going to be travelling at a constant speed because the pull of the earth will slow it down and then speed it up as the distance to the Earth varies

The pull of the Earth cannot by itself create some force that will slow the satellite down so it crashes to the Earth unless the orbit is totally messed up, so the satellite passes very close to the Earth and the Earth slows it down by collision.

>>why not on the moon? If gravity is not what slows them down, what brings them back to the surface? 

As explained above.  If the satellites distance from the Earth increases it will slow down, when the distance decreases it will speed up.  The pull of the Earth  cannot end the orbit by slowing down the satellite unless the path of the orbit leads to the Surface of the Earth, where the surface of the Earth, or the atmosphere, stops the satellite.

>>Unless there is an atmosphere, say, around the ISS, one would fly away if they jumped off right?

You cannot leave the pull of the Earth or return to the surface of the Earth with the puny force created by jumping from the ISS.    You need to be orbiting the earth at over 40,000kmph to escape the pull of the Earth.  The ISS is moving at 28,000kmph.  You can move thousands of miles away from the ISS by jumping but you cannot move to a significantly higher or lower altitude by using the puny force created by jumping.   

There is a simple relationship between stable orbital velocity and orbital height.   The near Earth ISS goes around the Earth every 90 minutes.   The GPS satellites orbit only once per day and are 20,000km further away from the Earth than the ISS.   The geostationary satellites orbit only once per day and are 35,000km further from the Earth than the ISS.    To change altitude you also need to change velocity.  If you jump directly upwards from the ISS there is no force being created to take you to the height of a geostationary satellite.  Likewise if you jump downwards towards the Earth there is no force being created that can take you back to the Earth.   All that is going to happen is the shape of your orbit will change slightly.




Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 12, 2016, 11:51:01 AM
The satellite is not going to be travelling at a constant speed because the pull of the earth will slow it down and then speed it up as the distance to the Earth varies

What gives a satellite more speed after being slowed down? So, now gravity can speed things up?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 12, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
The satellite is not going to be travelling at a constant speed because the pull of the earth will slow it down and then speed it up as the distance to the Earth varies

What gives a satellite more speed after being slowed down? So, now gravity can speed things up?

If you can produce an intelligent response which acknowledges you read my previous response and does not seek to just waste more of my time I will reply.

You have been playing games now for days on end.   I have had enough of your stupidity.   Only if you can act like an adult will I continue to respond to you.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on September 12, 2016, 12:06:43 PM
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.

Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

"Our globe, however, is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe,"

Above quote from - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/

Here is a website that specifically bashes flat Earthers, yet, assumes the Earth is a perfect sphere in its calculations.

https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/working-with-the-curvaure-of-a-spherical-earth/
the difference is measurable but too small to be seen with the naked eye.  IIRC the difference between circumference around the equator versus over the poles is less than 1%
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Copper Knickers on September 12, 2016, 12:10:17 PM
The satellite is not going to be travelling at a constant speed because the pull of the earth will slow it down and then speed it up as the distance to the Earth varies

What gives a satellite more speed after being slowed down? So, now gravity can speed things up?

That's correct. A body in an elliptical orbit will speed up as it gets closer to the planet and slow down as it moves away. In both cases this is caused by gravity accelerating it in the direction of the planet.

The speeding up and slowing down balance out so the body's average speed won't change over time unless it meets some other resistance.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: palmerito0 on September 12, 2016, 12:25:10 PM
Satellites have small thrusters on them that allow them to perform orbit station-keeping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_station-keeping).
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 12, 2016, 01:16:44 PM
The speeding up and slowing down balance out so the body's average speed won't change over time unless it meets some other resistance.

Space is not a perfect vacuum. There are small particles in the near vacuum. As these particles strike the satellite, it decelerates slowly."

Its starting to sound like satellites would require constant thrust and navigation, not unlike a normal plane.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 12, 2016, 02:11:05 PM
The longest operating satellite still being used for communication is an amateur one which was launched in 1974 so it is not exactly hard to keep them moving around up there.   
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: TheRealBillNye on September 12, 2016, 02:50:26 PM

Its starting to sound like satellites would require constant thrust and navigation, not unlike a normal plane.

Not exactly constant thrust. Remember, the forces exerted upon the satellite by these tiny molecules is next to nothing. Most large satellites have thrusters attached to correct any alterations in the trajectory.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 13, 2016, 02:40:08 PM
I am talking less about the molecules, and more about the "gravity" fluctuation issues "orbiting" presents.

Agree that Earth has "bumps" on it; The varying altitudes across the "globe" create unstable "gravitational pulls".
Melding that with Earths' "constant spinning" creates variables not addressed by current "orbiting" explanations.

Nearing Earth in an "orbit" would require navigational correction, as would distance away from it.
Except for in the case of a perfect circle, there can be no "perfect orbit".
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.

Well, now globular theorists claim that orbits are ellipsoidal, but again, that is impossible.
At the very least, one would have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth.
Keep in mind, until the "oblate spheroid" model was implemented, perfectly circular "orbits" were accepted as truth.
Enter in the atmosphere issue; The drag of even a slight atmosphere necessitates more counteractive thrust.

Unless the satellite is far enough into space where the atmosphere cannot reach it.
Proportionately, the amount of "gravity" available in such areas would not hold a satellite in "orbit".

Quote
"Satellites are, to some degree, "mysterious" objects. They travel in space, which feels like an exotic place because most of us have never been there. They are so far away that we cannot see them."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question378.htm


(https://s21.postimg.org/rwykhiw3r/Gravity_Is_A_Lie.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 13, 2016, 02:58:44 PM
Circular orbits are possible as well as elliptical. Circles are ellipses by the way.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 13, 2016, 10:33:30 PM

Nearing Earth in an "orbit" would require navigational correction, as would distance away from it.
Except for in the case of a perfect circle, there can be no "perfect orbit".
Rubbish! The orbits of the moon and all of the planets are not "perfect circles", but are closer to elliptical, so what? Kepler's Laws covers that.

Quote from: N30
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.
Stop being at total time-wasting ignoramus!
You have been told numerous times that this "pear shaped egg thingy" is less than 200 m from a perfect oblate spheroid.
And even that on that oblate spheroid "Distances from points on the surface to the center range from 6,353 km to 6,384 km", a whole 29 km in over 6,300 km - big deal!

Quote from: N30
Well, now globular theorists claim that orbits are ellipsoidal, but again, that is impossible.
At the very least, one would have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth.
Again, total garbage! Whyever would one  "have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth"?
No great explanation needed .As long as the perigee is not in too dense atmosphere, no problem.

Quote from: N30
Keep in mind, until the "oblate spheroid" model was implemented, perfectly circular "orbits" were accepted as truth.
Pure guesswork on your part! The ellipticity of the earth has been know since Newton's time. He calculated the ellipticity and was not that far out.
That was around 1700, long beforeany artificial satellites were dreamed of!

Quote from: N30
Enter in the atmosphere issue; The drag of even a slight atmosphere necessitates more counteractive thrust.
Atmospheric drag will gradually bring the satellite, that's why they are normally kept well above 200 km.

Quote from: N30
Unless the satellite is far enough into space where the atmosphere cannot reach it.
Quote from: N30
The atmosphere doesn't suddenly cut out. At "100 kilometers the air density is about 1/2200000 the density on the surface" and falls off rapidly past there.

Proportionately, the amount of "gravity" available in such areas would not hold a satellite in "orbit".
Again, purely unfounded rubbish! Gravitation does not suddenly cut off, it falls off gradually as 1/(distance squared).
The moon is a satellite of earth and much further than the normal high earth orbit satellites.

The trouble with you is that you don't learn anything from what is told you. You are just a nit-picker trying all the time to find the slightest fault with any answers.

Of course, you are the one making all the stupid goofs!

Look, learn about things before you start to ridicule them. You just make yourself look foolish the way you are going.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 14, 2016, 12:11:10 AM
I am talking less about the molecules, and more about the "gravity" fluctuation issues "orbiting" presents.

Agree that Earth has "bumps" on it; The varying altitudes across the "globe" create unstable "gravitational pulls".
Melding that with Earths' "constant spinning" creates variables not addressed by current "orbiting" explanations.

Nearing Earth in an "orbit" would require navigational correction, as would distance away from it.
Except for in the case of a perfect circle, there can be no "perfect orbit".
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.

Well, now globular theorists claim that orbits are ellipsoidal, but again, that is impossible.
At the very least, one would have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth.
Keep in mind, until the "oblate spheroid" model was implemented, perfectly circular "orbits" were accepted as truth.
Enter in the atmosphere issue; The drag of even a slight atmosphere necessitates more counteractive thrust.

Unless the satellite is far enough into space where the atmosphere cannot reach it.
Proportionately, the amount of "gravity" available in such areas would not hold a satellite in "orbit".

Quote
"Satellites are, to some degree, "mysterious" objects. They travel in space, which feels like an exotic place because most of us have never been there. They are so far away that we cannot see them."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question378.htm


(https://s21.postimg.org/rwykhiw3r/Gravity_Is_A_Lie.jpg)

IMPOSSIBLE??? NEED ENERGY???
What are you talking about???
Think before you talk.

At point A speed is lower and height starts decreasing.
Speed starts increasing because Angular Momentum Conservation Law "requires higher speed on lower distance".
At point B distance is smaller and speed higher, so centrifugal force pulls away while
speed decreases because of, again, Angular Momentum Conservation Law (speed times radius equals constant).

Orbiting object is oscillating between distances Ra and Rp,
its speed starts increasing at point A and decreasing at point B.

If Ra = Rp then speed remains constant and we have circular orbit.

Have you ever rotated small rock or other thing on rope?
Your hand is moving in ellipses, and rock periodically changes speed.
But rock is losing speed because of energy loss at air drag,
and your hand has to add more energy to compensate.
In orbit is pretty high vacuuum. Nothing to drag, except few molecules.

Other thing you get wrong is:
Earth doesn't have to be perfect sphere to have center of mass.
Doesn't have to be sphere at all.
But in reality it is because of gravity caused by size / mass,
except 14 miles high "equatorial bulge" caused by centrifugal force.

Ra and Rp are measured from center of mass of Earth to center of mass of orbiting object.
Not from surface to surface.

For example, geostationary satellites are at 22 300 miles above the equator,
and the very thinnest parts of atmosphere reaches up to 300 miles.
Most of the atmosphere is still within 10 miles from the surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_orbit

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 14, 2016, 01:46:42 AM
(https://s21.postimg.org/rwykhiw3r/Gravity_Is_A_Lie.jpg)
Actually I am interested on what you base your claims? Gut feeling? Even when all of us don't get advanced physics it would be good to see some equations, laws, numbers, calculations etc. Right now its only words, speed is greater, gravity is greater, objects collide, if gravity was strong enough, it is impossible, etc. It doesn't really tell us if things should happen this way or not. And comparing gravity to speed (gravity is greater than speed, speed is greater than gravity) just doesn't make sense. Its like saying that speed of rabbit is greater than 1000kg rock.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 14, 2016, 04:56:31 AM

Nearing Earth in an "orbit" would require navigational correction, as would distance away from it.

Why is this a problem?

Quote
Except for in the case of a perfect circle, there can be no "perfect orbit".

Please explain why. Look up 'geostationary orbits'.

Quote
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.

Well, now globular theorists claim that orbits are ellipsoidal, but again, that is impossible.

Why is it impossible?

Quote
At the very least, one would have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth.
Keep in mind, until the "oblate spheroid" model was implemented, perfectly circular "orbits" were accepted as truth.

These are not mutually exclusive things. Elliptic orbits are a thing, circular orbits are a thing. The existence of one does not preclude the existence of the other.

There was no 'implementation' of an oblate spheroid model. The Earth has long been known to bulge slightly, I was taught it at school a long time ago. It's only conspiracy theorists latching on to a catch phrase that has given it a meaning way beyond its intent.

Quote
Enter in the atmosphere issue; The drag of even a slight atmosphere necessitates more counteractive thrust.

Which they can do, thanks to having thrusters. Do some seaching for satellites (and even space stations) that have fallen back to Earth.

Quote
Unless the satellite is far enough into space where the atmosphere cannot reach it.
Proportionately, the amount of "gravity" available in such areas would not hold a satellite in "orbit".

Satellites are positioned in exactly the right place to allow them to be in orbit. QED. And yes, we can see them.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Copper Knickers on September 14, 2016, 07:43:43 AM
I am talking less about the molecules, and more about the "gravity" fluctuation issues "orbiting" presents.

Agree that Earth has "bumps" on it; The varying altitudes across the "globe" create unstable "gravitational pulls".
Melding that with Earths' "constant spinning" creates variables not addressed by current "orbiting" explanations.

Nearing Earth in an "orbit" would require navigational correction, as would distance away from it.
Except for in the case of a perfect circle, there can be no "perfect orbit".
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.

Well, now globular theorists claim that orbits are ellipsoidal, but again, that is impossible.
At the very least, one would have to explain why the pull of Earth would not crash them, when nearest Earth.
Keep in mind, until the "oblate spheroid" model was implemented, perfectly circular "orbits" were accepted as truth.
Enter in the atmosphere issue; The drag of even a slight atmosphere necessitates more counteractive thrust.

Unless the satellite is far enough into space where the atmosphere cannot reach it.
Proportionately, the amount of "gravity" available in such areas would not hold a satellite in "orbit".

Quote
"Satellites are, to some degree, "mysterious" objects. They travel in space, which feels like an exotic place because most of us have never been there. They are so far away that we cannot see them."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question378.htm

(https://s21.postimg.org/rwykhiw3r/Gravity_Is_A_Lie.jpg)

There's a lot wrong here and I suspect you may be trolling. But in case you're not, you could have a look at this: Orbital Mechanics (http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm).
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: deadsirius on September 14, 2016, 07:59:50 AM

What gives a satellite more speed after being slowed down? So, now gravity can speed things up?

 ???

Of course gravity can speed things up.  Specifically, here on earth, it speeds things up by about 22 mph every second.  For practical everyday purposes that's the DEFINITION of gravity.

You agree that things fall faster the longer they fall, right?

So keeping that in mind, let's look at your elliptical orbits.

(https://s21.postimg.org/rwykhiw3r/Gravity_Is_A_Lie.jpg)

Since I mentioned falling, I will add an interesting description of orbiting that I once read--orbiting can be thought of as falling towards the earth...and always missing.

Your satellite at point A is like a ball that's been thrown high (very high) into the air.  Think of point A as "up" (really any point on the ellipse is "up" relative to earth but that one is helpfully labeled.)  You can see its curved path right there in the picture.  Just like a ball, it comes to a point where the force of gravity has countered its upward momentum and begins to pull it back "down".  Again, it's there in the picture--after hitting point A the satellite is "falling" "down" towards earth--but missing it!

Like any falling object it is accelerating as it approaches earth.  At some point it falls right PAST the earth.  Now this is kind of a mental leap, but turn the diagram around and now look at point B as "up".  The satellite, due to its momentum, can now be thought of as being "thrown" up towards B, and again like any thrown object it follows a curved path, hitting a maximum height (B in this case) as gravity slows it down and then causes it to fall back again towards earth.

So you ask, why doesn't the gravity pull the satellite crashing down to earth when it is much closer at point B.  This is simply because it is going much faster (has more momentum) now than it was out on the large end of the ellipse.  There is much more gravity here at point B than there was at point A, but the object is moving fast enough that instead of getting pulled to earth, it manages to once again miss and fall past the earth, whereupon the whole process continues.  I.e. the satellite is now being "thrown" the other way towards A.

Sorry that's a lot of text but for me at least this concept of falling and missing has in the past helped me understand orbit a lot better.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 14, 2016, 06:13:17 PM
Was that supposed to explain the fluctuations in gravity from altitude changes...? I.E. Mt. Everest, Mariana Trench?
Also, how about the fact that those places are always "spinning" making their location hard to determine?
Really, whats hard to explain, is why you think an ellipse has a "large side"... They are always symmetrical.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 14, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
...
Really, whats hard to explain, is why you think an ellipse has a "large side"... They are always symmetrical.

YOU were the one who sent the picture(s) initialy.
You already know that side with point A is longer than side with point B.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 14, 2016, 07:08:12 PM
The shape itself is symmetrical, only, not in relation to Earth.
Entering Earths vicinity, at terminal velocity, and exiting without altering its trajectory or speed is impossible.
So the satellite must have significant propulsion systems, beyond what we are led to believe.
This, in addition to the previously stated gravitational fluctuation issues, brings satellites into question.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 14, 2016, 09:45:25 PM
The shape itself is symmetrical, only, not in relation to Earth.
Entering Earths vicinity, at terminal velocity, and exiting without altering its trajectory or speed is impossible.
Who said anything about the satellite being at "terminal velocity". The satellite is travelling at the appropriate velocity for that part of the orbit.
When in an elliptical orbit the velocity is changing continuously.
At the lowest point (perigee) in the orbit the velocity is a maximum and above that for a stable circular orbit at that altitude, so the satellite starts climbing to a higher altitude.
The increasing altitude slows the satellite gradually until at the highest point (apogee) the velocity has reduced to a minimum, and is too low to mantain an orbit at that altitude and the process repeats.

Quote from: N30
So the satellite must have significant propulsion systems, beyond what we are led to believe.
This, in addition to the previously stated gravitational fluctuation issues, brings satellites into question.
No, provided there is no drag no propulsion system is needed to maintain a stable elliptical orbit. Newton's Laws sort all that out.

Atmospheric drag does have important uses.
For example, when it came to "de-orbitting" the Space Shuttle, very little counter thrust was needed. Just enough to put it into an elliptical orbit with the perigee in dense enough atmosphere, at roughly 90 km altitude. All that was needed was a reduction in the Shuttle velocity of about 90 m/s.

And satellites don't need your understanding to orbit! They do that quite well with or without your approval.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 14, 2016, 10:25:51 PM
Kepler's 1at law: planets orbit in elliptical orbits with the sun as one of the foci.

This is the same for satellites and earth.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 14, 2016, 11:07:10 PM
The shape itself is symmetrical, only, not in relation to Earth.
Entering Earths vicinity, at terminal velocity, and exiting without altering its trajectory or speed is impossible.
So the satellite must have significant propulsion systems, beyond what we are led to believe.
This, in addition to the previously stated gravitational fluctuation issues, brings satellites into question.

1.  As pointed out the craft is not travelling at terminal velocity. Terminal velocity is something that happens when a sky diver does not go any faster when moving thru air.

2. The craft does alter its strajectory etc.  So you are in agreement on that part of the point you are making.

3. The craft does not need significant propulsion systems.  Whatever changes happen on one side of the orbit are balanced out by changes on the other side of the orbit.   All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape.  Therefore,  unless something is fundamentally wrong with the design of the orbit so it passes thru the atmosphere or strikes the earth it can continue to do that for a very long time without consuming large amounts of fuel.    One of the amateur satellites has been up there since 1974 and was still working as of 2015.  The amateurs know how fast that thing is travelling and unless keplers laws are wrong velocity means you know the altitude of the satellite.


Honestly we are talking about some very very simple concepts here.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on September 15, 2016, 06:20:09 AM
The shape itself is symmetrical, only, not in relation to Earth.
Entering Earths vicinity, at terminal velocity, and exiting without altering its trajectory or speed is impossible.
So the satellite must have significant propulsion systems, beyond what we are led to believe.
This, in addition to the previously stated gravitational fluctuation issues, brings satellites into question.
You still fail to present anything but words. Any previous experiments or any equations with numbers to back up your claim that it is impossible?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 15, 2016, 09:32:18 PM
The shape itself is symmetrical, only, not in relation to Earth.
Entering Earths vicinity, at terminal velocity, and exiting without altering its trajectory or speed is impossible.
So the satellite must have significant propulsion systems, beyond what we are led to believe.
This, in addition to the previously stated gravitational fluctuation issues, brings satellites into question.

Terminal velocity happens in atmosphere, on air.
(There is also terminal velocity in other fluids,
but here on earth in atmosphere we don't have them.)

Orbitting satellites don't enter atmosphere.
Therefore nothing signifficant is slowing them down by friction.
Therefore they don't need "massive" propulsion systems, only small, correctional ones.
And not all of them.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 16, 2016, 11:04:33 AM
Was that supposed to explain the fluctuations in gravity from altitude changes...? I.E. Mt. Everest, Mariana Trench?

(http://mpe.dimacs.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Geoids_sm-300x185.jpg)

Earth "spins", so calculating where a satellite will pass near Earth in a constantly changing "orbit" is impossible.

"All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape."

Passing over the Andes vs. off coast of California is the difference of crashing or missing the pull of Earth entirely.

No, provided there is no drag no propulsion system is needed to maintain a stable elliptical orbit. Newton's Laws sort all that out.

"Space" is not a perfect vacuum, it constantly encounters drag, however slight, it exists, and must be acknowledged.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: deadsirius on September 16, 2016, 11:18:58 AM
Was that supposed to explain the fluctuations in gravity from altitude changes...? I.E. Mt. Everest, Mariana Trench?

(http://mpe.dimacs.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Geoids_sm-300x185.jpg)

Earth "spins", so calculating where a satellite will pass near Earth in a constantly changing "orbit" is impossible.

"All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape."

Passing over the Andes vs. off coast of California is the difference of crashing or missing the pull of Earth entirely.

No, provided there is no drag no propulsion system is needed to maintain a stable elliptical orbit. Newton's Laws sort all that out.

"Space" is not a perfect vacuum, it constantly encounters drag, however slight, it exists, and must be acknowledged.

I am not a physicist or mathematician, but if I'm reading you correctly you're suggesting that the differing gravitation over different points on the planet should be enough to make the difference between the satellite crashing or flying off forever?

Again, no expert but I'm guessing the diagram you posted is not exactly to scale--I can see where it would seem to imply the gravitation over the Andes is many times stronger than that over the coast of California.  However we're talking about miniscule differences that require extraordinarily sophisticated equipment to detect--people on top of the Andes are not being crushed under their own weight while Californians "moon-bounce" all over the beach.

The effects of these variations on the satellite's orbit would have to be damn near infinitesimal--I believe it would take an extremely long time for it to have any significant impact on the orbital path.

Same goes for the "drag" created by particles in space--in theory it is a consideration but we'd be talking about eons of this drag to make any important difference.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 16, 2016, 11:55:37 AM
"All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape."

Passing over the Andes vs. off coast of California is the difference of crashing or missing the pull of Earth entirely.

You have demonstrated your ignorance so many times I just cannot be bothered with you any more.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: well rounded flat earther on September 16, 2016, 01:31:02 PM
N30 is by far the most ignorant of all the flat earthers that I have encountered on this site.  And that's saying something.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 16, 2016, 01:45:34 PM
"I am not a physicist or mathematician..."

"Again, no expert but I'm guessing..."

Thanks for sharing! There are good points brought up by your post, though!

"The effects of these variations on the satellite's orbit would have to be damn near infinitesimal..."

One would think so, but Aliveandkicking knows otherwise.

"The craft does alter its strajectory etc."

"The craft does not need significant propulsion systems. Whatever changes happen on one side of the orbit are balanced out by changes on the other side of the orbit. All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape. "

If the "orbit" keeps changing shape, and a perfect balance is required, then "orbiting" becomes impossible.

You have demonstrated your ignorance so many times I just cannot be bothered with you any more.

Are you implying that I am asking the same questions? Because we all know what that means according to you!

It is perverted to imply I am constantly asking the same questions.   
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 16, 2016, 02:29:21 PM
An object orbits it's parent body in a n ellipsee with the parent body in a foci of the ellipse.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 16, 2016, 05:05:59 PM
Where did you get that information? According to you, it is most likely rubbish.

Well, most published research is wrong, so why would this one be any different.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 16, 2016, 05:56:10 PM
Was that supposed to explain the fluctuations in gravity from altitude changes...? I.E. Mt. Everest, Mariana Trench?

(http://mpe.dimacs.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Geoids_sm-300x185.jpg)

Earth "spins", so calculating where a satellite will pass near Earth in a constantly changing "orbit" is impossible.

"All that happens is the orbit keeps changing shape."

Passing over the Andes vs. off coast of California is the difference of crashing or missing the pull of Earth entirely.

No, provided there is no drag no propulsion system is needed to maintain a stable elliptical orbit. Newton's Laws sort all that out.

"Space" is not a perfect vacuum, it constantly encounters drag, however slight, it exists, and must be acknowledged.

Have you thought about how much is 50 mGal?
And at which altitude you have those fluctuations from your picture?

The best modern gravimeters can measure as low as nanoGal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimeter
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 16, 2016, 10:46:30 PM

You have demonstrated your ignorance so many times I just cannot be bothered with you any more.

Are you implying that I am asking the same questions?
I am telling you that you glorify in being ignorant.  You refuse to learn.   You just keep on transmitting the same bullshit you began with.

The normal thing to do is learn where you are mistaken and then reframe your questions instead of just repeating the same bullshit over and over again from different directions like people have the time and patience to deal with your endless stupidity when obviously they do not.

You cannot even understand what I am telling you.   
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 17, 2016, 12:37:18 AM
I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me.

All I receive are insults and incoherent descriptions of a world obviously not universally accepted.
Must I restate my questions again, mind you, if you don't have time to answer them... don't!

Not only do you act like I have received a consistent answer, but, also seem aggravated that I continue asking.
Earth to my every day eye is flat, I cannot go to "outer" space or see a curve through daily activities.
Only through external sources does the idea of the globe manifest.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_rqAUPQby8/hqdefault.jpg)

This is supposedly another visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations.
How are the changes accounted for in orbits while Earth spins, along with the pull of the moon orbiting as well?
If the moon has its own gravitational differences on its surface, how are those accounted for?
Surely, if they can be detected, then they would have an effect on something as precise as rocket science.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2016, 01:55:37 AM
I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me.

All I receive are insults and incoherent descriptions of a world obviously not universally accepted.
Must I restate my questions again, mind you, if you don't have time to answer them... don't!

You get insults because you give insults. Just to give an example, you open by asking
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.

Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.
Even your question is couched in an insulting way, with "Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid"

You attitude is exemplified by "Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections."
This is not a matter of mathematical errors, it is about measuring a huge and slightly irregular physical object.
You cannot calculate mathematically the dimensions of the earth, you have to measure it!

Then you get its reply from SpJunk
Difference between equatorial and polar diameters is 0.35%.
With error of 0.35% you can use approximation from "almost-circle" to "circle".

Draw ellipse 7.898 inches high and 7.926 inches wide.
Would you be able to see the deformation of 0.028 inches?
The thickness of the line you draw is 0.7 milimeters, which is roughly 0.028 inches.

You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),
but from pole to pole, the diameter is 7,898 miles (12,714 km)
 — a difference of only 28 miles (42 km)."

So, equator is 14 miles farther from the center of the earth than poles.
Which to me seems quite a reasonable answer, and as he says, it is easy for you to look up the same information, but how do you reply?
You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),

(https://s9.postimg.org/pspka7qhr/Diameter.jpg)

This is why I believe in a Flat Earth. How did you calculate the mean? You obviously did it wrong.
Well, instead of rudely stating You obviously did it wrong., maybe you could have asked a little more reasonably.

There are various ways of calculating the mean and the simple average of the maximum and minimum only works if what is being averaged is uniformly distributed.

You are so rude and insulting that you tend to get back what you you give!

And I find I hard to believe that "This is why I believe in a Flat Earth" - for a few miles supposed discrepancy in the size of the earth!

That's quite funny really. Just try finding any measurements on the flat earth to anything like that accuracy.Things such as:
          Height and size of sun and moon, then delve into just how these were measured.
          Distance from the North Pole to the equator, then ask how it was mearsured.
          The circumference of the equator, sorry, I thinkthat's a No No!  :-[ Mustn't ask that.  :-[

If you you want accurate measurements, you won't get them from the Flat Earth - that's see s to be a "No Equation Zone ".

In the early part of this thread I tried to answer honestly and reasonably,
but there is only amount of being kicked in the teeth that anyone can be expected to take.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2016, 02:37:36 AM
I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_rqAUPQby8/hqdefault.jpg)

This is supposedly another visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations.
How are the changes accounted for in orbits while Earth spins, along with the pull of the moon orbiting as well?
If the moon has its own gravitational differences on its surface, how are those accounted for?
Surely, if they can be detected, then they would have an effect on something as precise as rocket science.
You claim that "I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me."
From what I have seen, you have been given the shape and size of earth plenty of times.

Summarising, what we call the "geoid", which is mean sea level assumed extended across continents  (by imaginary canals if you like)
 is within a bit over 100 m of a perfect oblate spheroid with polar diameter of 7,898 miles (12,714 km) and equatorial diameter of 7,926 miles (12,756 km).

Any closer than an "oblate spheroid" simply has no relavence to most people, including I guess you and me.
I'll leave that to map-makers and those that work out exact GPS coordinate's.

Though really I am sure that you might get better answers if you gave references for your diagrams.
What The Earth would look like without Water (http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Science/what-the-earth-would-look-like-without-water-facts.html).

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

And you ask "How are the changes accounted for in orbits while Earth spins, along with the pull of the moon orbiting as well?
If the moon has its own gravitational differences on its surface, how are those accounted for?
Surely, if they can be detected, then they would have an effect on something as precise as rocket science."

Well, we aren't "rocket scientists", so I suggest you ask one of them.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 17, 2016, 04:20:28 AM
I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me.
...

The shape of the Earth is almost sphere, with 14 miles bigger radius at equator than at poles.
Equator is circle, except few mountains on it, much smaller than those 14 miles.
Circumference of equator is 24 900 miles.

Circumference of Tropic of Capricorn is just a tiny bit bigger than circumference of Tropic of Cancer,
which makes some people say that "Earth is pear shaped".
But that is not real pear. That is just a figure of speech.
(A tiny bit bigger in lower part.)

Earth is spinning at speed of one rotation per 24 hours.
It makes look like Sun, Moon, every star, asteroid, commet and everything else is
travelling over the sky at constant speed of 15 degrees per hour.
(Except clouds, they are in the atmosphere that rotates together, as part of the Earth.)
Due to size of Earth, tangential speed of ground on equator is 1036 miles per hour,
which is 463 meters per second. On higher latitudes that speed is lower.

If you are somewhere in wilderness, you can use watch and Sun to determine directions of North, South, East and West.
If you are somewhere on boat, you can use sextant to measure angles of Sun (or known stars at night) to calculate your position precisely.
Latitude is easy, but for longitude you need precise clock (they call it "chronometer").

~~~~~

BTW: See the images on Earth and its water (http://water.usgs.gov/edu/gallery/global-water-volume.html).
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 17, 2016, 10:18:36 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JG0c4id_gxE/hqdefault.jpg)

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

This link says otherwise. So my question still stands. How does it affect orbits?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/22/earth_without_water_nope.html

This is not a matter of mathematical errors, it is about measuring a huge and slightly irregular physical object.
You cannot calculate mathematically the dimensions of the earth, you have to measure it!

Oh really? Okay! When I measure Earth, it's flat.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 17, 2016, 10:32:06 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JG0c4id_gxE/hqdefault.jpg)

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

This link says otherwise. So my question still stands. How does it affect orbits?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/22/earth_without_water_nope.html

That image os if the Earth's geoid. If you'd read the article properly you'd have seen this:

Quote
The actual graphic is hugely exaggerated on purpose, making it easier to see the Earth’s lumpy gravity field.

So you'd know that isn't what Earth looks like.

That kind of gravitational variation is well known on the moon - it causes spaceships to crash if they don't compensate their orbits from time to time.

[/quote]
This is not a matter of mathematical errors, it is about measuring a huge and slightly irregular physical object.
You cannot calculate mathematically the dimensions of the earth, you have to measure it!

Oh really? Okay! When I measure Earth, it's flat.
[/quote]

That's because you aren't measuring it properly. On purpose.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 17, 2016, 11:45:38 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JG0c4id_gxE/hqdefault.jpg)

"That image os if the Earth's geoid. If you'd read the article properly you'd have seen..."

"That kind of gravitational variation is well known on the moon - it causes spaceships to crash if they don't compensate their orbits from time to time."

"So you'd know that isn't what Earth looks like."

"That's because you aren't measuring it properly. On purpose."

Tell that to Rabinoz! He thinks that photo is what Earth looks like without water!
I have been arguing that it indeed shows gravity differences, and wondering how it is corrected for in Earths "orbits".
Maybe if you had bothered to read the thread instead of posting just to be paid by NASA, you would have realized.
Exactly how am I supposed to measure something like Earth improperly?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 17, 2016, 12:03:36 PM
I merely wish to know the shape of Earth and how it effects the physical objects around me.

All I receive are insults and incoherent descriptions of a world obviously not universally accepted.
Must I restate my questions again, mind you, if you don't have time to answer them... don't!

Not only do you act like I have received a consistent answer, but, also seem aggravated that I continue asking.
Earth to my every day eye is flat, I cannot go to "outer" space or see a curve through daily activities.
Only through external sources does the idea of the globe manifest.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_rqAUPQby8/hqdefault.jpg)

This is supposedly another visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations.
How are the changes accounted for in orbits while Earth spins, along with the pull of the moon orbiting as well?
If the moon has its own gravitational differences on its surface, how are those accounted for?
Surely, if they can be detected, then they would have an effect on something as precise as rocket science.

Everybody here is giving you consistantly the same answers.    So asking the same question is not going to get you different answers.

Nobody is hiding anything.  Everything that matters is taken into account.   

The fact is if you cannot understand things that 12 year old children can understand then as sure as hell you are not going to understand the kind of advanced physics that you will need to understand satellite orbits.

We crawl before we can walk and walk before we can run.   You know nothing.  You are at the baby stage totally refusing to learn even the most basic steps to become educated.   

You started with the shape of the Earth and refused to be educated.  You refused to learn we know the shape of the Earth by measurement     Instead like some irritating spoilt brat you keep baiting everybody here while most people are doing their best to be patient with you.

You began all the insults and people here are sick to death of your refusal to learn and know it all attitude when quite clearly you know sweet fuck all.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 17, 2016, 03:36:04 PM
"Everybody here is giving you consistantly the same answers."

Entirely not true. Btw you mis-spelled consistent.
Actually some people still think Earth is a perfect sphere!
Some people think its pear shaped, or egg shaped, or just a blob of undulating mass!
You say the answers are consistent, reality says otherwise...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 17, 2016, 03:38:30 PM
Maybe if you had bothered to read the thread instead of posting just to be paid by NASA, you would have realized.

Told you already, no-one is paying me, least of all NASA. You got some beef with NASA, take it up with them.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2016, 06:13:31 PM
"Everybody here is giving you consistantly the same answers."

Entirely not true.
Actually some people still think Earth is a perfect sphere!
Please tell me who is claiming that the "Earth is a perfect sphere"? And in any case, the earth is very close to being a "perfect sphere".

The second post in this thread explained that fairly well.
Difference between equatorial and polar diameters is 0.35%.
With error of 0.35% you can use approximation from "almost-circle" to "circle".

Draw ellipse 7.898 inches high and 7.926 inches wide. Would you be able to see the deformation of 0.028 inches?
The thickness of the line you draw is 0.7 milimeters, which is roughly 0.028 inches.

You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),
but from pole to pole, the diameter is 7,898 miles (12,714 km)
 — a difference of only 28 miles (42 km)."

So, equator is 14 miles farther from the center of the earth than poles.

Quote from: N30
Some people think its pear shaped,
That has been explained to you as carefully as I am able in:
So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.

Quote from: N30
or egg shaped,
The only one that I can find who suggested "egg shaped" was YOU in:
Only, we all know Earth is an pear shaped egg thingy.
So please will YOU explain to us why YOU would claim that! Besides you are grammatically incorrect with you "an pear shaped"!

Quote from: N30
or just a blob of undulating mass!
And I can find nowhere that even hints at "blob of undulating mass"!

Quote from: N30
You say the answers are consistent, reality says otherwise...

No, reality says you have been told quite consistent answers that YOU have chosen to twist and misinterpret.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 17, 2016, 07:02:41 PM
This is the second post in the thread, rabinoz, do not lie!

And the actual difference is what?  It's a worry.

Rabinoz is also whom I was referring to when I spoke of an undulating mass! He believed Earth looked like this!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_rqAUPQby8/hqdefault.jpg)

Though really I am sure that you might get better answers if you gave references for your diagrams.
What The Earth would look like without Water (http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Science/what-the-earth-would-look-like-without-water-facts.html).

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

He didn't even read the link he posted, it says this is NOT what Earth looks like without water!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 17, 2016, 08:13:14 PM
This is the second post in the thread, rabinoz, do not lie!

And the actual difference is what?  It's a worry.

Rabinoz is also whom I was referring to when I spoke of an undulating mass! He believed Earth looked like this!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9_rqAUPQby8/hqdefault.jpg)

Though really I am sure that you might get better answers if you gave references for your diagrams.
What The Earth would look like without Water (http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Science/what-the-earth-would-look-like-without-water-facts.html).

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

He didn't even read the link he posted, it says this is NOT what Earth looks like without water!

He did read the link. That is why he gave it to you.

He gave you the link with the image you introduced in the thread,
and with the text that says:
"An animated picture in the form of GIF image and also video (shown in this article)
has been shared widely online in the last few days and went viral. The weird, lumpy,
potato-shaped Earth is said to be showing how the planet would look like without water.
The GIF image of Earth is pretty cool, but what is claimed is not a fact."

It is obvious that he was hoping you will find the sentence that I bolded in my quote.

The words "what Earth looks like without water" are the headline of the article,
and it shows that your "magnetic fluctuation" was wrong description of the picture.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2016, 08:55:34 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JG0c4id_gxE/hqdefault.jpg)

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword your question.

This link says otherwise. So my question still stands. How does it affect orbits?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/22/earth_without_water_nope.html

Oh really? Okay! When I measure Earth, it's flat.
I said
Quote
It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.
That is quite true, but you claim "This link says otherwise"! On what basis?

The link YOU posted says nothing about "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", and the link I posted says nothing about "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations" so I don't know what you are raving on about!

The words "What The Earth would look like without Water" were not my words, they were just the title I gave the reference.

As I said before, go consult some specialist in orbital calculations.

But really, how is the deviation of the geoid from a perfect ellipsoid be a bit over 100 m going to have any great effect on orbits 100s of kilometres in altitude.

The fine details of that sort of calculation are of no concern to me, go work it out for yourself!

YOU claim "When I measure Earth, it's flat." Please detail how you came to that conclusion! Because it's flat out WRONG!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 18, 2016, 12:31:45 AM
This is the second post in the thread, rabinoz, do not lie!

And the actual difference is what?  It's a worry.

Rabinoz is also whom I was referring to when I spoke of an undulating mass! He believed Earth looked like this!

Though really I am sure that you might get better answers if you gave references for your diagrams.
What The Earth would look like without Water (http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Science/what-the-earth-would-look-like-without-water-facts.html).

It has nothing to do with "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations", so would you like to reword you question.

He didn't even read the link he posted, it says this is NOT what Earth looks like without water!

Yes, "it says this is NOT what Earth looks like without water!"

The actual words I said were:
"Though really I am sure that you might get better answers if you gave references for your diagrams.
What The Earth would look like without Water (http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Science/what-the-earth-would-look-like-without-water-facts.html)."

I did not lie and I did not say that picture is "What The Earth would look like without Water" the What The Earth would look like without Water is just the TITLE I gave the link!
GET THE MESSAGE!

YOU claimed that it was a "visualization of Earths magnetic fluctuations" - remember!

If you like to twist what people say to mean what you want, go right ahead. If you want information, stop trying your best to put everyone down

If you would LOOK at the scale on that image,
it is showing the deviation from the perfect oblate spheroid and the range on that scale is only -100 m to + 100 m.
The shape is showing the deviations massive magnified. If they were not magnified at all, you simply would not see them.

So stop claiming that: "Rabinoz is also whom I was referring to when I spoke of an undulating mass! He believed Earth looked like this!"

Now, who is lying! I did not ever say that I "believed Earth looked like this". I know full well what that image represents, and if you actually looked at it, so would you.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 18, 2016, 12:58:26 AM
It isn't even showing what the Earth looks like, just one of its properties:

Quote
the animated 3D model of rotating globe actually depicts the Earth’s Geoid -- which is a way of describing Earth’s gravitational field

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 18, 2016, 12:37:09 PM
"Everybody here is giving you consistantly the same answers."

Entirely not true. Btw you mis-spelled consistent.
Actually some people still think Earth is a perfect sphere!
Some people think its pear shaped, or egg shaped, or just a blob of undulating mass!
You say the answers are consistent, reality says otherwise...

Reality says you are being told the same thing in pages and pages of assistance which you are totally ignoring.

The shape of the earth has been determined by measurement.   The earth is approximately spherical and that is all you need to know.    You are not going to find the world is flat by quibbling over the exact shape of the earth when by measurement it was shown to be approximately spherical 300 years ago.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 18, 2016, 09:42:40 PM
it is flat....
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: SpJunk on September 18, 2016, 10:36:38 PM
it is flat....

It is approximately flat on short distances.
On long distances it is not.

Between two verticals that are one nautical mile apart there is tilt of one arcminute.
Between two verticals that are 60 nautical miles apart there is tilt of one degree.
Curvature is measured long time ago, and again, and again...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 18, 2016, 11:48:54 PM
it is flat....

It is approximately flat on short distances.
On long distances it is not.

Between two verticals that are one nautical mile apart there is tilt of one arcminute.
Between two verticals that are 60 nautical miles apart there is tilt of one degree.
Curvature is measured long time ago, and again, and again...

we dont live on a globe you know?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: inquisitive on September 19, 2016, 12:09:28 AM
it is flat....

It is approximately flat on short distances.
On long distances it is not.

Between two verticals that are one nautical mile apart there is tilt of one arcminute.
Between two verticals that are 60 nautical miles apart there is tilt of one degree.
Curvature is measured long time ago, and again, and again...

we dont live on a globe you know?
Explain measured distances and path of sun.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 19, 2016, 03:30:42 AM
we dont live on a globe you know?

Well, no we don't know and you have given us no reason to think that we don't live on a massive globe.

Haven't you got the message yet? Calling yourself a "Flat Earth Scientist" and spouting unsubstantiated words means nothing.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 19, 2016, 03:41:08 AM
It isn't even showing what the Earth looks like, just one of its properties:

Quote
the animated 3D model of rotating globe actually depicts the Earth’s Geoid -- which is a way of describing Earth’s gravitational field

You believe in the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo program.

This automatically contradicts everything the flat earth model stands for. Why are you here?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: deadsirius on September 19, 2016, 05:58:39 AM
N30 you're talking about receiving nothing but insults and the same answers over and again.  I just wanted to point out that twice on this thread I've patiently and politely attempted to clarify or add to the explanations being given you.

Your response?

"I am not a physicist or mathematician..."

"Again, no expert but I'm guessing..."

Highlighting the couple of places where I actually admitted to not knowing everything (something I never see flat-earth people doing) and using it against me by treating it as an invalidation of everything I was saying.

Better would have been to ask questions on anything that wasn't clear, or if you think I am wrong, perhaps tell me why.  And maybe return some of the good faith I try to keep in all my posts here.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: onebigmonkey on September 19, 2016, 09:42:59 AM
It isn't even showing what the Earth looks like, just one of its properties:

Quote
the animated 3D model of rotating globe actually depicts the Earth’s Geoid -- which is a way of describing Earth’s gravitational field

You believe in the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo program.

This automatically contradicts everything the flat earth model stands for. Why are you here?

Because I can be, and because sometimes it isn't enough just to roll your eyes and aim your head at the nearest wall.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 19, 2016, 02:23:28 PM
The earth is approximately spherical and that is all you need to know.    You are not going to find the world is flat by quibbling over the exact shape of the earth when by measurement it was shown to be approximately spherical 300 years ago.

It is approximately flat on short distances.

"...reason to think that we don't live on a massive globe."

Haven't you got the message yet?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on September 19, 2016, 02:25:20 PM
And?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 02:28:01 PM
it is flat....

It is approximately flat on short distances.
On long distances it is not.

Between two verticals that are one nautical mile apart there is tilt of one arcminute.
Between two verticals that are 60 nautical miles apart there is tilt of one degree.
Curvature is measured long time ago, and again, and again...

we dont live on a globe you know?
Explain measured distances and path of sun.

the sun moves in a complex path..... and also the distances of stuff has nothing to do with the shape of it tard.......
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on September 19, 2016, 02:32:18 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 02:33:51 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on September 19, 2016, 02:37:32 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Can you name any object that doesn't appear to become smaller as it moves further away?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 19, 2016, 02:47:31 PM
Can you name any object that doesn't appear to become smaller as it moves further away?

The sun. Even if it was 93 million miles away, Earth would "rotate" the viewer farther away from it in your model.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 19, 2016, 02:48:53 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Your logic: The earth is flat, therefore the sun's path somehow had to work for a flat earth, therefore the earth is flat.

You're not very bright are you?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 02:51:21 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Your logic: The earth is flat, therefore the sun's path somehow had to work for a flat earth, therefore the earth is flat.

You're not very bright are you?

my logic is that there is proof we live on a flat plane therefore the sun has to work on one since we live on one and it has been proven you sheeple......
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 19, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
Please explain your proof then...

Thought so.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on September 19, 2016, 02:54:03 PM
Can you name any object that doesn't appear to become smaller as it moves further away?

The sun. Even if it was 93 million miles away, Earth would "rotate" the viewer farther away from it in your model.
Yes. What is the difference between 92,980,999 and 93,000,000, compared to 3,000 and 6,000?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Denspressure on September 19, 2016, 04:34:25 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Your logic: The earth is flat, therefore the sun's path somehow had to work for a flat earth, therefore the earth is flat.

You're not very bright are you?

my logic is that there is proof we live on a flat plane therefore the sun has to work on one since we live on one and it has been proven you sheeple......

OK

Go fund a rocket with the help of this website and take photos of the flat earth.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 05:01:06 PM
The sun appearing to move from east to west is a complex path?

You aren't very bright are you?

there are already plenty of photos taken high up of the flat earth and it is flat.....

if its not a complex path how else would it work on the flat earth WHICH WE DO IN FACT LIVE ON NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS ARE
Your logic: The earth is flat, therefore the sun's path somehow had to work for a flat earth, therefore the earth is flat.

You're not very bright are you?

my logic is that there is proof we live on a flat plane therefore the sun has to work on one since we live on one and it has been proven you sheeple......

OK

Go fund a rocket with the help of this website and take photos of the flat earth.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 19, 2016, 05:42:56 PM
Instead of addressing the questions. You just quote someone like an idiot again. You must really be desperate for attention.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 06:36:48 PM
Instead of addressing the questions. You just quote someone like an idiot again. You must really be desperate for attention.

the mods are editing it out due to insults......
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 19, 2016, 07:48:37 PM
Suuure they are.

By the way, im still waiting for one of your proofs of a flat earth.

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Flat Earth Scientist on September 19, 2016, 08:01:57 PM
Suuure they are.

By the way, im still waiting for one of your proofs of a flat earth.

they are ask them...... and i give you some more proof.....
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 19, 2016, 08:18:41 PM
Some music, Illuminati, a picture of Chicago, and more music.

Wow. I'm convinced. I relinquish all of my previous worldview. I am now a flat earther. Good job.


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 19, 2016, 10:15:31 PM
Suuure they are.

By the way, im still waiting for one of your proofs of a flat earth.

they are ask them...... and i give you some more proof..... (http://)

;D ;D That's proof!  ;D ;D

I can just see the whole Globe shaking apart - in mirth.

As I claimed what you first popped up "Flat Earth Scientist" is an oxymoron and you seem intent on proving me correct.

<<  ??? skating <-> shaking  ??? >>
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 20, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
To go back to my original unanswered questions would be nice!
Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in orbiting objects path?
Unless they are stationary, the fluctuations, however slight must be accounted for.
Trying to tell me over and over that I've been answered already is not going to make it more true!
Having been told that it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 20, 2016, 03:57:51 PM
To go back to my original unanswered questions would be nice!
Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in orbiting objects path?
Unless they are stationary, the fluctuations, however slight must be accounted for.
Trying to tell me over and over that I've been answered already is not going to make it more true!
Having been told that it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

Your first post was
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.

Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

"Our globe, however, is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe,"

Above quote from - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/

Here is a website that specifically bashes flat Earthers, yet, assumes the Earth is a perfect sphere in its calculations.

https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/working-with-the-curvaure-of-a-spherical-earth/

That has been answered!

But in it, you claim
Quote from: N30
Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.

"Our globe, however, is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe,"

There are no "large errors and approximations" and that has been hammered out numerous times.
Very early you were told: "Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles but from pole to pole, the diameter is 7,898 miles - a difference of only 28 miles."
That's only a deviation from the average of only ±0.18% from a perfect sphere.

So, what is the big deal about doing calculations assuming that "the Earth is a perfect sphere in its calculations". The calculations are far easier, and get the point across just as well.

And the deviation (of the geoid) from a perfect oblate spheroid is only −106 to +85 m, or -0.0008% to +0.0007%.
::) ::) And you are jumping up and down about these "large errors and approximations" ::) ::)
get a bit of common sense, please.
When have you measured (not calculated) anything with errors as small as -0.0008% to +0.0007%?

So quit your stupid bitching about your so-called "large errors and approximations" - there are none.

These small variations little effect on satellite orbits, the satellite does not suddenly come crashing to earth if it reaches an area of minutely larger gravitational field - the orbit just gradually reduces a little, the satellite accelerates minutely. The orbit ends up slightly non-circular, but still quite stable.

And, guess what, it is those tiny orbital variations that allow variations in gravitation to be calculated.

So you are asking us to "explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet"
is meaningless, because there are no large errors!
So, as I said before numerous times, quit your bitching - if you want more detail, look it up yourself, I don't think any of us are specialists in orbital mechanics.
As I said before have a look at Rocket and Space Technology (http://www.braeunig.us/space/index.htm) unless you are just out to cause trouble!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 21, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
You still did not answer my question.

Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in an orbiting objects path?

Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 21, 2016, 08:21:14 PM
You still did not answer my question.

Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in an orbiting objects path?

Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.

Your questions were answered many times by many different people. 

You have been told repeatedly:

1. The measurement errors are small

2.  Satellites can correct the small errors in their orbits

The errors are small, the satellites can correct small errors.  What aspect of that is beyond your ability to understand????

Having been told that it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

You need to allow reality to exist.  Then it will be easier for you to understand the measurement errors are sufficiently small it makes no difference for a device which can correct the small errors. 

How many more times are you going to fight reality and try to ask the same question again and again while you pretend you were not given good answers already?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 21, 2016, 10:24:48 PM
You still did not answer my question.

Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in an orbiting objects path?

Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Go and do your own research! I have given you some references.
And as I said before, I am not specialist in orbital mechanics and as far I know, neither is anyone else here.

And neither am I nor anyone else your slave.

As far as I can see it has nothing to do with whether the earth is a Globe or not.

So, if you want answers go find them out for yourself - you might the sums a bit hard though!

<< Fixed "your slave" >>
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 21, 2016, 10:49:50 PM
Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in an orbiting objects path?

The Earth and the Moon orbit around their combined center of masses.   The center of mass is called a barycenter.    The centre of mass of the Earth moon system is just inside the surface of the Earth.     Likewise the solar system has a center of mass called the solar system barycenter where the main contributer to the barycenter are the large planets.    Earth does not orbit the Sun but rather orbits the Sun Earth barycenter which is in turn orbiting the solar system barycenter.    Gravity declines from a mass inversely by the square of the distance the masses are apart.     So because Earth is relatively very close to the Sun the Suns gravity has far more impact upon the Earth than the combined masses of the Solar system and so almost exactly the Earth orbits the sun, and we know that accuracy from highly accurate radar measurements.

So when we consider the satellite orbiting the Earth the principle gravitational component is the Earth because the satellite is very much closer to the Earth than it is the moon.   Additionally because gravity weakens at a square of the distance mount Everest has almost no impact at all upon the satellite, likewise even the non-round shape of the Earth is dramatically weakened at the distance of the satellite orbit because the amount of out of roundness is very small and the satellite is hundreds of kilometers away from the Earth.   The moons effect upon the satellite causes it to go up and down and rotate.    The approximate shapes are known, the distances are known. 

When you have studied that a bit and can be seen to ask intelligent questions about it, then you will be in a position to realise why we know what we do about satellite orbits and there is nothing mysterious going on.    Everything is known with sufficient accuracy a satellite that is placed in the required orbit can remain there when corrected for whatever small amount of drift it experiences. Currently your questions are showing you have almost no understanding of even the most basic concepts that you will be required to know to understand satellite orbits.

People here are doing their best to teach you and all you have to do is use the brain you were born with and want to learn.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 23, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
"Earth does not orbit the Sun..."
"So because Earth is relatively very close to the Sun..."
"Additionally because gravity weakens at a square of the distance mount Everest has almost no impact at all..."   
"The moons effect upon the satellite causes it to go up and down and rotate."
"...there is nothing mysterious going on. "
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 23, 2016, 12:29:23 PM
"Earth does not orbit the Sun..."
"So because Earth is relatively very close to the Sun..."
"Additionally because gravity weakens at a square of the distance mount Everest has almost no impact at all..."   
"The moons effect upon the satellite causes it to go up and down and rotate."
"...there is nothing mysterious going on. "

Only a very dishonest person takes things out of context like you do.   Why do you find it so hard to have an honest discussion?

From day one of this conversation you have lied and cheated to get a result.  You should be in politics.   
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 23, 2016, 01:07:42 PM
"...dishonest person..."
"...hard to have an honest discussion?"
"...lied and cheated to get a result."

"You should be in politics."

Finally I am sure that you are living in dreamland.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on September 23, 2016, 01:53:56 PM
"...dishonest person..."
"...hard to have an honest discussion?"
"...lied and cheated to get a result."

"You should be in politics."

Finally I am sure that you are living in dreamland.

And yet more cheating.

Why is an honest conversation not possible for you???
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: IonSpen on September 23, 2016, 05:18:22 PM
With the large amount of quoting as his only answers, I'd say he's only here to antagonize. Looking for that "Aha!" moment.
Same as that knuckle dragging flat head "scientist". They're only doing this for their own entertainment. They don't sincerely believe the earth is flat, they just enjoy frustrating others! I think the modern definition is TROLL.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: IonSpen on September 23, 2016, 05:28:07 PM
I read through 7 pages of this thread, looking to see where N30 would answer this question Rabinoz asked SEVERAL TIMES, and you always avoided it. Instead you kept going in circles just so you wouldn't have to.
So now I'm asking you too.

"Now it's your turn. Show me your precise calculations for
         the circumference of the flat earth,
         the circumference at the equator of the flat earth and
         the height of the sun."

Or are you just gonna continue ignoring it? Your questions have been thoroughly and repeatedly answered. They may not be the answers you wanted to hear, but they're answered nonetheless.
Now it's your turn. We are all waiting on your reply...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 23, 2016, 06:08:46 PM
Yes, I agree. We are being trolled. There's no way this flat earth idiot can be serious.

I wish we could all just ignore him so he'll go away. But, it's just such good entertainment!

Seriously, nobody can be THIS stupid, can they?

Haha I doubt anyone here is taking him seriously, he's obviously trolling
.

At this point all he says is pure entertainment!

And you are proving great entertainment, so keep it up!

I know you're just making this all up, but at least try and have it make sense. Or you'll bore me.

They're only doing this for their own entertainment. I think the modern definition is TROLL.

"I'm not calling you a troll"

Flat head is a troll.

Go big or go home!

Flat head!!

Huh? BUSTED. I win. You lose. You're back peddling now. Bye bye flat head..

Those are the gayest videos ever made.

"This just proves our theory you're a child."

"This alone proves you are just a small child. Grown men don't do these things.

"Why are you so consistently hateful and mean on here?"

"I'm being paid? You mean by the IllumiNASA? Ha"

"OK. I admit. IllumiNASA pays me"...

"You're a paid shill by the IllumiNASA to purposely derail and retardacize the ultra-gullible."
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on September 23, 2016, 06:44:20 PM
Answer rabinoz's question
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 23, 2016, 08:23:50 PM

"...reason to think that we don't live on a massive globe."

Haven't you got the message yet?

More dishonest editing of quotes! You couldn't lie straight in bed with your selective editing and biased highlighting in quotes.

I believe what I said was:
Well, no we don't know and you have given us no reason to think that we don't live on a massive globe.

Haven't you got the message yet?

Carry on, we know the type of person you are now!


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 24, 2016, 09:18:26 AM
And as I said before, I am not specialist in orbital mechanics and as far I know, neither is anyone else here.

And neither am I nor anyone else you slave.

As far as I can see it has nothing to do with whether the earth is a Globe or not.

So, if you want answers go find them out for yourself - you might the sums a bit hard though!

Did you just call me a slave?

Heres the original unedited quote so no one can claim I took it out of context.
(http://s15.postimg.org/iuz4sgnt7/Rabinoz_Quote.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: IonSpen on September 24, 2016, 11:32:59 AM
Yes! Quote me all you want, I don't care. But all you're doing is stalling so you don't have to answer Rabinoz's questions! You still have yet to do that!
I must have really struck a nerve with you to go on such a quoting spree. Seems that's all you can do.
Now. Answer those questions, so we can quote you.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 24, 2016, 08:25:43 PM
And as I said before, I am not specialist in orbital mechanics and as far I know, neither is anyone else here.

And neither am I nor anyone else you slave.

As far as I can see it has nothing to do with whether the earth is a Globe or not.

So, if you want answers go find them out for yourself - you might the sums a bit hard though!

Did you just call me a slave?

Heres the original unedited quote so no one can claim I took it out of context.
<< yes, I believe you! >>

I do so humbly apologise Your Majesty, did I hurt your feelings?
I do readily admit to making a typo, probably more times than I would like.

I did not intend to call you a slave,
but you seem to be thinking that we are your slaves, demanding that we show explanations for all sorts of things when you can do the research yourself.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: IonSpen on September 24, 2016, 08:56:53 PM
Still waiting for those questions to be answered....
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 01, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
Still waiting for those questions to be answered....

You are so right!

To go back to my original unanswered questions would be nice!
Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in orbiting objects paths?
Unless they are stationary, the fluctuations, however slight must be accounted for.
Trying to tell me over and over that I've been answered already is not going to make it more true!
Having been told that it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

This is the only answer so far!

The moons effect upon the satellite causes it to go up and down and rotate.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on October 01, 2016, 11:15:18 AM
Why do you think people on here would know the calculations?

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on October 04, 2016, 06:32:00 PM
Big supercomputer simulations.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on October 04, 2016, 09:47:22 PM
Still waiting for those questions to be answered....

You are so right!

To go back to my original unanswered questions would be nice!
Really, how are the Earth and Moons gravitational fields calculated and corrected for in orbiting objects paths?
Unless they are stationary, the fluctuations, however slight must be accounted for.
Trying to tell me over and over that I've been answered already is not going to make it more true!
Having been told that it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

This is the only answer so far!

The moons effect upon the satellite causes it to go up and down and rotate.

Baloney.   I gave you many detailed answers over many days to many different questions which all said more or less the same thing.   We know the measurements with sufficient accuracy the inaccuracies are of no consequence at all where you are continually claiming we do not know.  We do know with sufficient accuracy.

Simply repeating the same claim again and again and again and again is just stupid. 
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 04, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

Answer me.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on October 04, 2016, 10:27:57 PM
it is possible to measure Earth incorrectly, I would like to know how that is possible as well.

Answer me.

I do not understand the question.  Surely you can understand how to measure something incorrectly?

What is your question????

If you measure the amount your house is out from being truely level with the best instruments on Earth you will almost certainly find your house is very significantly not level by some amount plus or minus some amount of uncertainty.      The uncertainty amount is not important because it is so small compared to the part you can reasonably assume to be accurate.   If hundreds of people do the same survey of your house they will all say the same thing unless mistakes were made. 

We know the shape of the Earth with great accuracy where the uncertainies in the measurements are so small they do not matter to be able to talk intelligently about the shape of the Earth.

Your focus on inaccuracies is just pointlessly stupid obfuscation.   It is just another one of your lies.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: disputeone on October 04, 2016, 10:41:04 PM
Have you used a tape measure before N30? It is a dying art but may clear up how you can measure something incorrectly.

I agree with AAK on this one, I don't understand your question.

In my job I need to measure within .5 of a milimeter sometimes over 30+ metres, it is exceedingly easy to "measure something incorrectly."
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 05, 2016, 03:31:27 PM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: disputeone on October 05, 2016, 04:04:24 PM
Distance between bricks.

Correct

(https://s22.postimg.org/z5rki6esd/20161005_133432.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z5rki6esd/)

Incorrect

(https://s17.postimg.org/3pzmhalej/20161005_133457.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3pzmhalej/)

The bottom measurement is incorrrect by 5mm.

 
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: IonSpen on October 05, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
Distance between bricks.

Correct

(https://s22.postimg.org/z5rki6esd/20161005_133432.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z5rki6esd/)

Incorrect

(https://s17.postimg.org/3pzmhalej/20161005_133457.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3pzmhalej/)

The bottom measurement is incorrrect by 5mm.
AHA! So you ARE a Mason, huh?!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: disputeone on October 05, 2016, 04:26:07 PM
Notice how the tape measure and shadow make a V?

There are also nine protruding bricks in the picture,
3+3+3 = 9.

Ok you were right totes, or did I do it on purpose??

Illuminati confirmed.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Aliveandkicking on October 05, 2016, 09:10:52 PM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.

Since you are expecting people to help you (I am assuming),    why is it impossible for you to write out what you are thinking about so your question can be answered?

What do you mean by 'how do you measure Earth incorrectly?'   and more importantly to me,  why are you demanding such a strangely phrased question is answered??????????????

There is a right way and a wrong way.  We do not need to concern ourselves with wrong ways.

You are obviously messing with us.  It is what you do.   You are obfuscating and just playing around for some purpose that is not obvious.



Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on October 05, 2016, 09:55:05 PM
I just tossed my ruler on Tue floor, and the earth reached the end of the ruler.

Therefore, I conclude that the earth is one foot long.

I also measured it incorrectly.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Rayzor on October 06, 2016, 02:06:51 AM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.

I don't live in a desert,   but I can measure anything you like incorrectly.   Your IQ perhaps?

N30 might be an automated troll?   AI reaches a new low.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on October 06, 2016, 05:38:52 PM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.

I don't live in a desert,   but I can measure anything you like incorrectly.   Your IQ perhaps?

N30 might be an automated troll?   AI reaches a new low.
What about IQ(N30) = (-25600)(1/2)?
Could that be interpreted to mean that N30 imagines his IQ to be at the genius level.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Rayzor on October 06, 2016, 05:58:58 PM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.

I don't live in a desert,   but I can measure anything you like incorrectly.   Your IQ perhaps?

N30 might be an automated troll?   AI reaches a new low.
What about IQ(N30) = (-25600)(1/2)?
Could that be interpreted to mean that N30 imagines his IQ to be at the genius level.

For N30's IQ,  I'd regard the set of incorrect numbers to be any value of x that satisfies  x>0 

:)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on January 03, 2017, 11:41:45 PM
I did not say "something". I said Earth. The ground we walk on. A giant flat desert. Measure that incorrectly for me.
Since you are expecting people to help you (I am assuming),    why is it impossible for you to write out what you are thinking about so your question can be answered?
What do you mean by 'how do you measure Earth incorrectly?'   and more importantly to me,  why are you demanding such a strangely phrased question is answered??????????????

There is a right way and a wrong way.  We do not need to concern ourselves with wrong ways.

You are obviously messing with us.  It is what you do.   You are obfuscating and just playing around for some purpose that is not obvious.

(http://i.imgur.com/CcOI3Jj.jpg)
Quite irrelevant, bears no relation to the OP, unless you are now claiming that the earth is an  ::) inverted pyramid  ::).
In case you have forgotten, the question in the OP was
Why is Earth officially defined as on oblate spheroid wider south of equatorial locations, making a pear shape.
As far as I have seen no photo from "space" shows this.
Keep in mind that mathematics cannot ignore such imperfections.
Ergo, all equations assuming Earth is a sphere must be re evaluated.
Unless Scientific American is lying, Earth is not even a perfect oblate spheroid.
Please explain why large errors and approximations are accepted as true for calculating the shape of our planet.
"Our globe, however, is not even a perfect oblate spheroid, because mass is distributed unevenly within the planet. The greater a concentration of mass is, the stronger its gravitational pull, "creating bumps around the globe,"
Above quote from - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/
Here is a website that specifically bashes flat Earthers, yet, assumes the Earth is a perfect sphere in its calculations.
https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/working-with-the-curvaure-of-a-spherical-earth/
Besides, the question asked in the OP has been answerved.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on January 04, 2017, 02:35:09 PM
Besides, the question asked in the OP has been answerved.
(http://i.imgur.com/kVxtbiV.jpg)
Yes, your question was answered!
Difference between equatorial and polar diameters is 0.35%.
With error of 0.35% you can use approximation from "almost-circle" to "circle".

Draw ellipse 7.898 inches high and 7.926 inches wide.
Would you be able to see the deformation of 0.028 inches?
The thickness of the line you draw is 0.7 milimeters, which is roughly 0.028 inches.

You could google this for yourself:

"The mean radius of Earth is 3,959 miles (6,371 kilometers).
However, Earth is not quite a sphere.
The planet's rotation causes it to bulge at the equator.
Earth's equatorial diameter is 7,926 miles (12,756 km),
but from pole to pole, the diameter is 7,898 miles (12,714 km)
 — a difference of only 28 miles (42 km)."

So, equator is 14 miles farther from the center of the earth than poles.
So, "With error of 0.35% you can use approximation from "almost-circle" to "circle"."

But it is not precisely an oblate spheroid (ellipsoid). The exact shape deviates very slightly from this and is "a little chubbier south of the equator". You might have read:

The actual shape of the earth is described as the "Geoid":
Quote from: Wikipedia
Geoid
The geoid is the shape that the surface of the oceans would take under the influence of Earth's gravitation and rotation alone, in the absence of other influences such as winds and tides. This surface is extended through the continents (such as with very narrow hypothetical canals). All points on the geoid have the same gravity potential energy (the sum of gravitational potential energy and centrifugal potential energy). The force of gravity acts everywhere perpendicular to the geoid, meaning that plumb lines point perpendicular and water levels parallel to the geoid.
Much more in Wikipedia, Geoid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid)

This is not a simple shape as it is a sphere distorted by rotation and by the unequal distribution masses around the earth.
Quote from: Wikipedia, Geoid, Description
Description
The geoid surface is irregular, unlike the reference ellipsoid, which is a mathematical idealized representation of the physical Earth, but considerably smoother than Earth's physical surface. Although the physical Earth has excursions of +8,848 m (Mount Everest) and −429 m (Dead Sea), the geoid's variation ranges from −106 to +85 m, less than 200 m total compared to a perfect mathematical ellipsoid.[/size]

Because the actual geoid is so complicated a reference ellipsoid is used as a mathematical model for calculation purposes.
As noted above the differences are small, ranging from −106 to +85 m.

Simpler and more complex "mathematical models" are used depending on the application.

So the earth is not exactly an ellipsoid (an oblate spheroid), but is close enough to one for most purposes.

The comment that it is "slightly pear-shaped" comes from the fact that South of the Equator the earth is minutely bigger than North of the Equator, though still within this −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid.

So his "Royal Perfection, the Most Precise Majestic NXXX" demands absolute precision!
Tough cheese
In this life we have to accept that not everything can be done with absolute precision. The earth is not a "mathematical geometric body". It is a real physical object made up earth, rock, water etc and the only way to determine its size and shape is to measure it!

So it has been measured, in the early days by simple instruments, then to laser interferometers etc and finally to satellites.

So the shape is now defined as a reference ellipsoid with very small deviations of −106 to +85 m of the perfect mathematical ellipsoid, and this final shape is known as the "geoid".
The relative errors involved here are -0.0017% to 0.0013% in the earth's radius.
Now if The Great Bag Full of Useless Hot-air (AKA N30) is not satisfied with that, I respectfully suggest he get out his trusty Lufkin tape
and measure it for himself!
Yes, your Royal Perfection, the Most Precise Majestic NXXX, your question in the OP has been answered.

Now, just to prove that you are not a hypocrite, your Wiki, which you undoubtedly accept without question states that:
Quote
The Ice Wall
The figure of 24,900 miles is the diameter of the known world; the area which the light from the sun affects.
Please show me exactly where that figure came from. Remember, it is supposedly a flat earth, so measurements shouls be easy.
Prove to my satisfaction that it is 24,900 miles and not 24,899 miles or 24,901 miles. There, a whole mile tolerance!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Lonegranger on January 04, 2017, 02:51:00 PM
Well that's that cleared up by Rabinoz......
And here are some rather nice photographs of our earth taken over recent months from shhh...you know where...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/gallery/2016/dec/29/the-earth-in-2016-as-seen-from-space-in-pictures


Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 29, 2017, 09:44:10 AM
I find it amusing that some mountains reach far into the sky.

Actually some can supposedly be seen from space.
Mighty are these mountains in their stature.

Nevertheless. the horizon line of all these alleged space pictures, showing curvature...
Every single one...
Only ever shows a perfectly trim curve, unaltered in its perfection, no hill or mountain in sight...
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 29, 2017, 09:59:18 AM
(https://img00.deviantart.net/9c78/i/2012/143/3/3/mountains_from_space_by_xxxmaxamxxx-d4meriz.jpg)

Wow! Here's one with mountains!
Ah, wait, never mind it's a painting.
Keep in mind, the curve of Earth can be visible at what height again?
Everyone knows that it is 35,000 ft? No... 50,000 ft? Hmmm... 70,000 ft? Idk actually...

Unless people wish to dispute that mountains can rise above 20,000 ft or more...
People should be able to see them, while also seeing the curve of Earth, or am I wrong?

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: GRIZZ420 on September 29, 2017, 10:11:29 AM
(https://img00.deviantart.net/9c78/i/2012/143/3/3/mountains_from_space_by_xxxmaxamxxx-d4meriz.jpg)

Wow! Here's one with mountains!
Ah, wait, never mind it's a painting.
Keep in mind, the curve of Earth can be visible at what height again?
Everyone knows that it is 35,000 ft? No... 50,000 ft? Hmmm... 70,000 ft? Idk actually...

Unless people wish to dispute that mountains can rise above 20,000 ft or more...
People should be able to see them, while also seeing the curve of Earth, or am I wrong?

The highest mountains are 5.5 miles tall and the ISS is 254 miles up. That means the mountains only reach 2.1% of the distance to the ISS. Thats just height and there are more factors like distance to the horizon,etc.
I wouldnt be surprised if in the right conditions and with the right camera you might see something.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 29, 2017, 04:36:23 PM
What does the distance to the ISS have to do with my point?
Or do you think the ISS's height defines where the curve becomes visible?
What is the height at which the curvature of Earth is visible from sea level?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Logick on September 29, 2017, 04:41:13 PM
What is the height at which the curvature of Earth is visible from sea level?
wat
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 29, 2017, 05:11:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/de2RpiQh.jpg)

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on September 29, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/de2RpiQh.jpg)
Your mountains are way out of scale.  The radius of the Earth is about 4,000 miles and the highest mountains are only about 5 miles.  They'd be barely a blip on that scale.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 01, 2017, 08:24:27 AM
The *alleged* radius of Earth is 4000 miles.
I challenge you to verify that supposed fact.
Maybe I missed something but not all visual aids are to scale, and certainly not all those concerning Earth.
Ever cross your mind to actually address the two points I brought up recently?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Badxtoss on October 01, 2017, 02:20:14 PM
What does the distance to the ISS have to do with my point?
Or do you think the ISS's height defines where the curve becomes visible?
What is the height at which the curvature of Earth is visible from sea level?
The height at sea level is, sea level and the curve, as such is not visible from there.
Although the fact that the horizon, assuming a calm clear day looking out over the ocean, is evidence of said curve.  It is a hard, defined line.  Not what would happen on a flat earth.
Not sure what your point was here.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on October 01, 2017, 02:56:35 PM
The *alleged* radius of Earth is 4000 miles.
I challenge you to verify that supposed fact.
I have verified it for myself many times.
I have stood on the beach at the Bay/Gulf county line in Mexico Beach, FL.  From that point, looking directly south one can see the trees of Cape San Blas but not the beach or water line.  I've verified with binoculars and a telescope that they still are not visible with magnification.  However, just climbing up the ~15 feet to road level and they ARE visible without any magnification.  Exactly as expected with an Earth with a radius of 4,000 miles.  I've also used both RADAR and radio from ground and airborne based platforms and seen the max range vary solely on the altitude of the emitter.  In all cases that distance conforms to an Earth with a radius about 4,000 miles.  If the Earth was flat or the radius was different then the max range would vary based on power output but that does not happen.

But this "challenge" just seems like an attempted distraction from your crappy drawing.


Maybe I missed something but not all visual aids are to scale, and certainly not all those concerning Earth.[/uote]
Being so grossly out of scale makes it look like the mountains are significant when they aren't.

Ever cross your mind to actually address the two points I brought up recently?
When did I ever indicate I cared about your supposed points?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on October 02, 2017, 01:02:03 AM
The *alleged* radius of Earth is 4000 miles.
No its not!
       Earth's polar radius is 3,949 miles and
       Earth's equstorial radius is 3,963 miles

Quote from: N30
I challenge you to verify that supposed fact.
The *alleged* diameter of the known flat earth is 24,900 miles.
I challenge you to verify that supposed fact.

Quote from: N30
Maybe I missed something but not all visual aids are to scale, and certainly not all those concerning Earth.
Not surprising when the average diameter of earth is 7,918 miles and the highest mountain is less than 5.5 miles or 0.13% of the diameter.
You try a scale drawing of even a 100 mile piece of the earth .
Here is a rough scale drawing, including curvature from 50 miles east of Mt Everest to 50 miles west.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmkb81yuqz0i8tc/Globe%2C%2050%20miles%20East%20and%20West%20Everest%20.png?dl=1)
Look at all that  :P curvature :P.
If a diagram needs to illustrate the effects of curvature over a few miles there is no way to draw to scale.
Heights might be a few tens of feet, but horizontal distances are a number of miles.

Quote from: N30
Ever cross your mind to actually address the two points I brought up recently?
i'll leave that to another post.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on October 02, 2017, 01:40:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/de2RpiQh.jpg)
Not simple. The curve is very small and horizon from high aircraft altitudes is very blurred,  so becomes hard to see clearly.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzxxm5bwdrs2d0i/20160605%20-%20Horizon%20out%20Plane%20Window.jpg?dl=1)
From Concorde at about 50,000 ft, I don't know the camera used

The blurry horizon is a problem at this altitude and lower, but 100,000 ft is above enough if the atmosphere for the blurring to be less of a problem.

Or from a flat earther's balloon flight.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8uwfjezr2kczjd/FLAT%20EARTH%20ADDICT%2022%20%20Balloon%20cam%20at%20121%2C000%20ft%20proves%20Flat%20Earth%20at%20413.jpg?dl=1)
FLAT EARTH ADDICT 22  Balloon cam at 121,000 ft at 4:13
    
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xp6ia0hgch4fo49/FLAT%20EARTH%20ADDICT%2022%20%20Balloon%20cam%20at%20121%2C000%20ft%20proves%20Flat%20Earth%20at%20413%20-%20contrast%20enhanced.jpg?dl=1)
FLAT EARTH ADDICT 22  Balloon cam at 121,000 ft at 4:13 - contrast enhanced
So at a guess I would say that some curvature can be seen from about 45,000 feet and convincing curvature from 100,000 ft.
But in both cases the distortion from a camera lens can exaggerate it or hide it.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 02, 2017, 08:08:09 AM
I cant believe you are still on this site every day Rabinoz.

At last, there can be no doubt that you are a paid disinformation agent suppressing truth.
Maybe you can explain why you lie so much in another way?

Need I point out that the Flat Earth Addict video clip you posted employs a fish eye lens? Not important, eh?
Earth is flat. Earth is not a globe.
Oh, woe to the person who turns a blind eye to this deception. Here are the original videos proving my point.



(http://) Rabinoz clipped video [With fisheye]

(http://) Proof of a flat Earth [No Fisheye]
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: peppermint_wish on October 02, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
if they started to say that the globe earth is more like a pear in shape, we might be starting to get somewhere.
the flat Earth map clearly shows a really large Southern hemisphere.
maybe in the end they will admit and prove in a way that nobody can deny it anymore, that the Earth is indeed flat.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: zork on October 02, 2017, 03:09:12 PM
Need I point out that the Flat Earth Addict video clip you posted employs a fish eye lens? Not important, eh?
No, its not important.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: sokarul on October 02, 2017, 04:51:50 PM
I cant believe you are still on this site every day Rabinoz.

At last, there can be no doubt that you are a paid disinformation agent suppressing truth.
Maybe you can explain why you lie so much in another way?

Need I point out that the Flat Earth Addict video clip you posted employs a fish eye lens? Not important, eh?
Earth is flat. Earth is not a globe.
Oh, woe to the person who turns a blind eye to this deception. Here are the original videos proving my point.



(http://) Rabinoz clipped video [With fisheye]

(http://) Proof of a flat Earth [No Fisheye]
Please learn the difference between a fisheye lens and a normal wide angle lens. The video camera in the YouTube video does not use s fisheye lens.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on October 02, 2017, 06:42:40 PM
I cant believe you are still on this site every day Rabinoz.
What business is it of yours what I do? I'm retured and can wasted my time as I feel fit, so butt out!

Quote from: N30
At last, there can be no doubt that you are a paid disinformation agent suppressing truth.
As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote from: N30
Maybe you can explain why you lie so much in another way?
I don't lie, I thought that is your speciality, as I will prove later - at least I prove that you are ignorantly deceptive.

Quote from: N30
Need I point out that the Flat Earth Addict video clip you posted employs a fish eye lens? Not important, eh?
No, it is highly important! That is why I selected a frame with the horizon close to but slightly below the centre of the picture,
I could easily have picked one like this, with the horizon above the centre,
so grossly exaggerating the curvature:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cyzp2revxdtis00/121%2C000ft%20Little%20Piggy%20High%20Altitude%20Balloon%20Flight%20FULL%20LENGTH%20%20FLAT%20EARTH%20ADDICT%2006%20at%206.09.jpg?dl=1)
121,000ft Little Piggy High Altitude Balloon Flight FULL LENGTH  FLAT EARTH ADDICT 06 at 6:09
     Or one like this, with the horizon well below the centre,
so negating any curvature that might be there:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz0xgh8fk5vslk1/FLAT%20EARTH%20ADDICT%2005%20%20121%2C000%20feet%20Little%20Piggy%20Cam%20High%20Altitude%20Balloon%20Flight.jpg?dl=1)
FLAT EARTH ADDICT 05 : 121,000 feet Little Piggy Cam High Altitude Balloon Flight (http://)

You really should learn a bit about so-called fish-eye lenses. Try Flat Earth Insanity, Flat Earth Follies: High Altitude Balloon footage PROVES Flat Earth (https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/flat-earth-follies-high-altitude.html)

Quote from: N30
Earth is flat. Earth is not a globe.
There you are at it again, you simply cannot help yourself!
No, it is almost a perfect sphere, it has been for as long as people have been around and you cannot prove otherwise!

Quote from: N30
Oh, woe to the person who turns a blind eye to this deception.
Not I, Mr N30, a deceptive segment of that video was posted by flat earther, Logick, in How do roundies explain away high-altitude photos/footage of the flat Earth? (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=72204.msg1962517#msg1962517).
I went back to the original videos made by flat earther, Flat Earth Addict.

They are not my videos, they are flat earth videos. If there is any deception implied it's not on my head, go blame your Flat Earth YouTube buddies.

Quote from: N30
Here are the original videos proving my point.
No they don't! As stated above none are my videos.

Quote from: N30
(http://) Rabinoz clipped video [With fisheye]
No! Mr N30, I did not clip any videos, nor take any videos with any fish-eye lens!.
If you do not believe me look at the source in Logick's post: How do roundies explain away high-altitude photos/footage of the flat Earth? (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=72204.msg1962517#msg1962517).
I went back to the original videos made by flat earther, Flat Earth Addict.

Quote from: N30
(http://) Proof of a flat Earth [No Fisheye] << corrected by RABinOZ >>
That is the same balloon flight.  Here look at the "121,000ft Little Piggy High Altitude Balloon Flight FULL LENGTH":
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/14ausrmq5r65768/121%2C000ft%20Little%20Piggy%20High%20Altitude%20Balloon%20Flight%20FULL%20LENGTH%20%20FLAT%20EARTH%20ADDICT%2006%20at%200.00.jpg?dl=1)
121,000ft Little Piggy High Altitude Balloon Flight FULL LENGTH : FLAT EARTH ADDICT 06 at 0:00 (http://)
You take a peak at that video betweens times 6:08 and say 6:34 and then try to tell me it is not a "fish-eye" lens.
Now YOU were saying
"Oh, woe to the person who turns a blind eye to this deception."
See, I have not turned a blind eye to deception! I have exposed your deception.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, which you did not give me, and blame it on your total ignorance of photography!
Bye bye.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on October 11, 2017, 11:46:40 AM
I cant believe you are still on this site every day Rabinoz.
What business is it of yours what I do? I'm retured and can wasted my time as I feel fit, so butt out!

Well seeing as how you constantly call flat Earthers mentally challenged, and ignore any counterarguments all while doing so on a website made for flat Earthers, I would say it is my business because you seem to be more of a cyber bully rather than some kind of "beacon of truth".

And then you post copy paste lists of common arguments against flat Earth that have been given explanations over and over!

If you were only here for once and a while, I would not make such a fuss, but how many consecutive hours/days/weeks/months/years have you consistently been on this website calling anyone who actually claims to be a believer in the flat Earth a troll, shill, or mentally disturbed?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 09, 2018, 06:50:49 PM
Oh Rabinoz, he is still here almost everyday isn't he? The shill is strong with that one.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Badxtoss on March 09, 2018, 07:11:34 PM
Oh Rabinoz, he is still here almost everyday isn't he? The shill is strong with that one.
If only you could refute anything he says you might have a case.  But you can't do you just resort to insults.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 09, 2018, 08:13:36 PM
I have refuted plenty of what that shill spews. My last post in this thread last year, was about how Rabby the shill loves to resort to insults on almost every occasion, and now you claim I am the on being insulting just by pointing out facts?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on March 10, 2018, 01:30:00 AM
I cant believe you are still on this site every day Rabinoz.
What business is it of yours what I do? I'm retired and can wasted my time as I feel fit, so butt out!
Well seeing as how you constantly call flat Earthers mentally challenged,
Where do I "constantly call flat Earthers mentally challenged"? But, with the way you act, I do wonder at times.

Quote from: N30
and ignore any counterarguments
I argue against counterarguments but I certainly cannot address all counterarguments.
So would you please list any well supported counterarguments that have ignored and I'll see what I can do.

But you complain that I'm here too much then claim that I "ignore any counterarguments"! Give us a break. There's no pleasing some people.

Quote from: N30
all while doing so on a website made for flat Earthers, I would say it is my business because you seem to be more of a cyber bully.
Who said this site is simply, "made for flat Earthers"? I thought it was made for flat earthed to debate their ideas, but few seem to do it!
If you want to debate with only believers, confine yourself to the Flat Earth Believers forum.

So I guess a cyber bully is now anyone posts evidence against the claims from the likes of N30.

Tough, you should be used to being wrong by now. Here's another pretty picture and you can't blame NASA for this one.
(http://mentallandscape.com/C_Zond07_9.jpg)

Poor poor flat earther, you've got to think that everybody else is wrong and only you are right.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:35:45 AM
I think those who are wrong are wrong, and those who are right are right.

Luckily for me, those who know the Earth is flat is gaining in number.

There is a store in Iverness Scotland called The Flat Earth Store that just recently opened.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on March 10, 2018, 06:04:33 AM
I think those who are wrong are wrong, and those who are right are right.

Luckily for me, those who know the Earth is flat is gaining in number.

There is a store in Iverness Scotland called The Flat Earth Store that just recently opened.

There are stores all over the world that sell magic wands.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 06:22:56 AM
I think those who are wrong are wrong, and those who are right are right.

Luckily for me, those who know the Earth is flat is gaining in number.

There is a store in Iverness Scotland called The Flat Earth Store that just recently opened.
Funny how the numbers of those in the know do not seem to grow on this forum.

But the flat Earth store does sound interesting. What do they sell?

From the article in the Scottish Scum:
A further post reads: “Your silence is consent. Your government is blocking out the sun and killing you.

Do you know more of the sun block the government is using?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Cahaya on March 10, 2018, 06:30:05 AM
Ah, that's why I rarely see the sun in Scotland!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 06:46:13 AM
Yeah, Tories, Queen, and NASA. Bastards.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 06:51:41 AM
From what I understand the Flat Earth Store doesnt sell anything.

And yes, the governments are blocking the sun.

Look up Al Gore on Ellen, he admits there are "crazy" scientists trying to stop global warming by spraying the skies!
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 06:55:23 AM
From what I understand the Flat Earth Store doesnt sell anything.

And yes, the governments are blocking the sun.

Look up Al Gore on Ellen, he admits there are "crazy" scientists trying to stop global warming by spraying the skies!
So is that what they referring to? That is how they are killing us? Why do they want to kill us?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 07:01:02 AM
They don't want us totally dead, they want us half dead so we can be their mindless slaves.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Macarios on March 10, 2018, 07:01:17 AM
Instead of describing, let me show you:

Himawari-8 takes one photo every 10 minutes abobve Japan / Australia.
Set "visible", click on "color", and select time from UTC table to see when there was day.
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/gms/smallc.html?area=6&element=1&time=201803101420 (http://www.jma.go.jp/en/gms/smallc.html?area=6&element=1&time=201803101420)

Form the other angle GOES-16 takes more images.
http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/#/animation?satellite=goes-16&end_datetime=latest&n_images=1&coverage=fd&channel=rgbstr&image_quality=gif&anim_method=javascript (http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/#/animation?satellite=goes-16&end_datetime=latest&n_images=1&coverage=fd&channel=rgbstr&image_quality=gif&anim_method=javascript)

EUMETSAT took images for last 35 years, one for each day, from above the zero meridian. Set time and wait couple of seconds to refresh.
http://pics.eumetsat.int/viewer/index.html (http://pics.eumetsat.int/viewer/index.html)

There are more, just google for geostationary meteorological satellite imagery.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 07:05:32 AM
They don't want us totally dead, they want us half dead so we can be their mindless slaves.
Who told you this? Where did you get the information of the plan?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 12:53:17 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 12:57:42 PM
Oh yes. Chemtrails.

Tell me what is in them, thank you.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on March 10, 2018, 01:04:07 PM
Oh yes. Chemtrails.

Tell me what is in them, thank you.

Homeopathy.  ;)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on March 10, 2018, 01:18:21 PM
Oh yes. Chemtrails.

Tell me what is in them, thank you.

Homeopathy.  ;)
Homeopathy works tho.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on March 10, 2018, 01:20:35 PM
Oh yes. Chemtrails.

Tell me what is in them, thank you.

Homeopathy.  ;)
Homeopathy works tho.

Placebos occasionally do.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Cahaya on March 10, 2018, 01:55:49 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?

Mainly water and some burnt fossil fuel particulates, more correctly called contrails
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: markjo on March 10, 2018, 02:45:17 PM
Oh yes. Chemtrails.

Tell me what is in them, thank you.

Homeopathy.  ;)
Homeopathy works tho.
Does it really?  Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 02:51:08 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?

Mainly water and some burnt fossil fuel particulates, more correctly called contrails



See, here is a perfect example of denial.

Al Gore and Ellen say they are not contrails, and yet people insist that they are nonetheless.

Yes, some are contrails, the ones that disappear in minutes, the one that linger for hours, are not.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 02:59:41 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?

Mainly water and some burnt fossil fuel particulates, more correctly called contrails



See, here is a perfect example of denial.

Al Gore and Ellen say they are not contrails, and yet people insist that they are nonetheless.

Yes, some are contrails, the ones that disappear in minutes, the one that linger for hours, are not.
If your last statement were true then cirrus clouds could never exist.  That is all a contrail is.  If the conditions are good for cirrus clouds then contrails will persist.  It is a lie that they can not persist.

And he does NOT confirm spraying.  Nor does Ellen.  He talks about the idea that some have PROPOSED spraying.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 03:09:17 PM
They are spraying, and everything he says that is caused by global warming is caused by their spraying.

Acidification of the ocean? - Chemtrails

Dry soil and drought? - Chemtrails

Outbreaks of viruses? - Chemtrails

Unnatural super storms? - Chemtrails

Earth is flat and there is no such thing as "global" warming.

The government is not your friend, they are the terrorists.

Time to end terrorism.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on March 10, 2018, 03:14:56 PM
They are spraying, and everything he says that is caused by global warming is caused by their spraying.

Acidification of the ocean? - Chemtrails

Dry soil and drought? - Chemtrails

Outbreaks of viruses? - Chemtrails

Unnatural super storms? - Chemtrails

Earth is flat and there is no such thing as "global" warming.

The government is not your friend, they are the terrorists.

Time to end terrorism.

Unstable dynamite? -Chemtrails

Rogue elephants? -Chemtrails

Falling rocks? -Chemtrails
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 03:18:32 PM
They are spraying, and everything he says that is caused by global warming is caused by their spraying.

Acidification of the ocean? - Chemtrails

Dry soil and drought? - Chemtrails

Outbreaks of viruses? - Chemtrails

Unnatural super storms? - Chemtrails

Earth is flat and there is no such thing as "global" warming.

The government is not your friend, they are the terrorists.

Time to end terrorism.
There is no evidence of any spraying.  "Chemtrails" are nothing but an internet myth.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Cahaya on March 10, 2018, 03:26:34 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?

Mainly water and some burnt fossil fuel particulates, more correctly called contrails



See, here is a perfect example of denial.

Al Gore and Ellen say they are not contrails, and yet people insist that they are nonetheless.

Yes, some are contrails, the ones that disappear in minutes, the one that linger for hours, are not.

Here's a document about persistent contrails that comes from the 1940's

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fwebarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk%2F20170206093405%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.metoffice.gov.uk%2Fbinaries%2Fcontent%2Fassets%2Fmohippo%2Fpdf%2Fc%2F3%2F1946_brewer_condensation_trails.pdf
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 03:30:23 PM
Thank you Cahaya.  I hadn't seen that one before.  Here's another
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1942/naca-wr-l-474.pdf
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Cahaya on March 10, 2018, 03:36:00 PM
Thank you Cahaya.  I hadn't seen that one before.  Here's another
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1942/naca-wr-l-474.pdf

I've seen thousands of persistent contrails, including ones coming from aircraft I've previously flown. It's kinda hard to see the ones you make yourself but I know I've made plenty. Persistent contrails exist and are very common
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Badxtoss on March 10, 2018, 04:34:02 PM
Do you know whats in chemtrails?

The Al Gore approved streaks in the sky?

Mainly water and some burnt fossil fuel particulates, more correctly called contrails



See, here is a perfect example of denial.

Al Gore and Ellen say they are not contrails, and yet people insist that they are nonetheless.

Yes, some are contrails, the ones that disappear in minutes, the one that linger for hours, are not.
What do you base that belief  on?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
I am sure that they have been spraying for a lot longer than since politicians began yelling "global" warming.

However I have seen many more streaks of death in the sky very recently.

HAARP is evidence that the slave masters we call governments are controlling more than just money.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 05:19:32 PM
I am sure that they have been spraying for a lot longer than since politicians began yelling "global" warming.
I'm sure you are.  But there is still no evidence.  Meanwhile, in the real world, persistent contrails have been around since planes could fly high enough to create them.  But keep believing that lie that they can't persist.  The rest of us will laugh at you being afraid of clouds.

However I have seen many more streaks of death in the sky very recently.
There are more streaks, not necessarily of death (no samples from a trail have ever been collected).  Considering there is a lot more air traffic than there used to be, that the traffic flies higher (colder temperatures more often conducive to persistent contrail formation) and that newer airplane engines burn cleaner (more water in the exhaust) and have higher thrust (more exhaust so again more water) is it really unexpected that persistent contrails are more common?

HAARP is evidence that the slave masters we call governments are controlling more than just money.
And more unsubstantiated claims.
HAARD is a non steerable array with limited power.  It isn't capable of even half the stuff the conspiracy nuts claim.  Thanks for the humor though.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:26:00 PM
Boy, its nice to just avoid talking about what HAARP is capable of at all isnt it?

What is it for?

Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on March 10, 2018, 05:27:48 PM
They are spraying, and everything he says that is caused by global warming is caused by their spraying.
Acidification of the ocean? - Chemtrails
Dry soil and drought? - Chemtrails
Outbreaks of viruses? - Chemtrails
Unnatural super storms? - Chemtrails
Do you have any real evidence for all of that or is it just your imagination again?
Quote from: N30
Earth is flat and there is no such thing as "global" warming.
Do you have solid evidence for you claim that "Earth is flat"?
And you claim that, "there is no such thing as "global" warming", but there certainly seems plenty of evidence for "climate change".
You presented as much above, and the general direction of the temperature change seems upward.
Quote from: N30
The government is not your friend, they are the terrorists.
Do you have evidence or is it just your imagination again?
Quote from: N30
Time to end terrorism.
Sure it's "Time to end terrorism", but you and your ;) erstwhile co-conspirator ;), Arealhumanbeing, Leader of the Second American Revolution seem to be on the wrong side of the fence.

But, it's time to stop your dreaming and face the real world.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 05:31:23 PM
Boy, its nice to just avoid talking about what HAARP is capable of at all isnt it?

What is it for?

Care to elaborate?
ionospheric research
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
no proof of anything else.  But why are you asking?  YOU are the one that seems to think you know.  Why don't you share?
How interesting that you avoid the subject of "chemtrails" that YOU brought up though.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Avoid? How so? I simply cannot say more than I have said.

These shills would deny that the sky is blue if it suited the governments agenda and narrative.

Orwellian 1984 dystopia will come to fruition if people do nothing about it.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 05:36:41 PM
Avoid? How so? I simply cannot say more than I have said.
and what you've said was shown to be nothing more than an internet myth and lies.  Glad we got that sorted.

These shills would deny that the sky is blue if it suited the governments agenda and narrative.
didn't take long to get to the shill gambit.

Orwellian 1984 dystopia will come to fruition if people do nothing about it.
sound paranoid
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:41:16 PM
Shills are a fact.

Israel pays students in scholarships to anonymously promote anything anti Israeli.

But in America, that is illegal, go figure.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Jmfx3Gl.jpg)
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 05:42:36 PM
Shills are a fact.
Who said it wasn't?

Still doesn't make the shill gambit valid.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on March 10, 2018, 05:52:05 PM
The HAARP wiki even says it is capable of making plasma clouds, which in turn can effect weather.

I say there are shills here, because they say chemtrail spraying was only proposed and so that means it was never carried out, but there is no evidence of what happened to that proposal!

They simply assert that it never went through, and maintain anyone who claims it has is lying.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on March 10, 2018, 05:57:27 PM
Boy, its nice to just avoid talking about what HAARP is capable of at all isnt it?

What is it for?

Care to elaborate?
HAARP's maximum output of only 3.6 MW it's too little to have more than a local effect on the ionosphere.
Read about the latest work there, HAARP schedules first experiments since UAF takeover, Dan Bross, Fairbanks. (https://www.alaskapublic.org/2017/02/21/haarp-schedules-first-experiments-since-uaf-takeover/)
Here's one quote from that,
Quote
The generators energize HAARP’s 3.6 megawatt transmitter, beaming signals through 180 antenna into the ionosphere, 50 to 600 miles above the earth’s surface. Mitchell said the public can track what’s going on through HAARP’s Facebook page. It’s part of an effort to debunk lingering conspiracy theories about what happens at the former military research facility. Those theories include weather and mind control.
Still, one can hardly imagine ;D what else ;D you conspiratards can dream up.

On the power output, there are radio transmitters with comparable power:
Quote
Longwave transmitter
The longwave transmitter at Roumoules, which was inaugurated in 1974, transmits at 216 kHz (until 1988: 218 kHz) with a transmission power of 1400 kW (until 1976: 2000 kW). It consists of two 1000 kW transmitters switched in parallel, which are however run with 700 kW output power. A third 1000 kW unit has been available since 1983. Although this unit is only used as backup unit, it is possible to switch all three units in parallel, which would allow an operation with a transmission power of 3000 kW.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on March 10, 2018, 06:12:16 PM
The HAARP wiki even says it is capable of making plasma clouds,
Yes, in the ionosphere! Have a look at,
Quote from: Wikipedia
During active ionospheric research, the signal generated by the transmitter system is delivered to the antenna array and transmitted in an upward direction. At an altitude between 70 to 350 km (43 to 217 mi) (depending on operating frequency), the signal is partially absorbed in a small volume several tens of kilometers in diameter and a few meters thick over the IRI. The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 µW/cm2, tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere. The small effects that are produced, however, can be observed with the sensitive scientific instruments installed at the HAARP facility, and these observations can provide information about the dynamics of plasmas and insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions

Quote from: N30
which in turn can effect weather.
Incorrect! The altitude is far too high and the energy density is far too low to have any effect on the weather.

But, have fun with all your imaginary conspiracies. It probably keeps you from further and more destructive mischief.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: frenat on March 10, 2018, 06:32:50 PM
The HAARP wiki even says it is capable of making plasma clouds, which in turn can effect weather.
Can does not mean does.  And it does not mean it is intentional or controlled.  And the ionosphere is far out of the weather layer.

I say there are shills here, because they say chemtrail spraying was only proposed and so that means it was never carried out, but there is no evidence of what happened to that proposal!

They simply assert that it never went through, and maintain anyone who claims it has is lying.
Do you have ANY proof that the proposals have gone through?  If you want to claim it is more than a proposal then YOU need to show it actually happening.  You'd be the first.
Did I say you were lying?
Resorting to the shill gambit is an ad hominem attack.  It typically shows you have no real argument.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Badxtoss on March 10, 2018, 06:42:30 PM
I am sure that they have been spraying for a lot longer than since politicians began yelling "global" warming.

However I have seen many more streaks of death in the sky very recently.

HAARP is evidence that the slave masters we call governments are controlling more than just money.
Again' what evidence are you basing the chemtrails theory on?  So far you have just claimed it is true but offered nothing to back it up.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rvlvr on March 10, 2018, 11:07:47 PM
I was hoping N30 was joking about chemtrails. And I was about to mention HAARP. No need for that, it seems. Every conspiracy theory swallowed hook, line, and sinker.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Roger on April 19, 2018, 07:06:33 AM
Me no understand global warming. Is it real or fake??? If real what happen to ice wall???
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: N30 on September 18, 2018, 02:27:03 PM
I was hoping N30 was joking about chemtrails. And I was about to mention HAARP. No need for that, it seems. Every conspiracy theory swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Was Al Gore joking about chemtrails?

Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Stash on September 18, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
I was hoping N30 was joking about chemtrails. And I was about to mention HAARP. No need for that, it seems. Every conspiracy theory swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Was Al Gore joking about chemtrails?

No, he wasn't joking. In fact he wasn't even talking about it. For goodness sake, do you blindly believe every conspiracy theory that comes across your desk?
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: rabinoz on September 18, 2018, 05:36:55 PM
I was hoping N30 was joking about chemtrails. And I was about to mention HAARP. No need for that, it seems. Every conspiracy theory swallowed hook, line, and sinker.
Was Al Gore joking about chemtrails?
He was not even talking about chemtrails behind commercial aircraft (unless you have some other reference).
Is this what you are talking about?
Quote from: Jacko Neill
Can anyone debunk the video where al gore admits chemtrails? Just search " al gore chemtrails " on youtube. My friend who is a hardcore believer in chemtrails always sends me to that video as "Proof"
http://www.infowars.com/al-gore-talks-about-chemtrails-on-ellen-show/ (http://www.infowars.com/al-gore-talks-about-chemtrails-on-ellen-show/)
Quote
Ellen: “There’s a rumor, I don’t know if this is true or not, that some scientists are
trying to figure out a way to block the sun to try to slow down global warming.”

Al Gore: “It’s a measure of the feeling of desperation that some of them feel…”

Ellen: “Are they really thinking they can do that?”

Gore: “Well, some of them are seriously proposing, and I think it’s completely nuts
[laughter], you know, you put another kind of pollution, sulfur dioxide, up to orbit…
cover the atmosphere, the sky won’t be really blue in the way it is now anymore, but it
would block out some of the sun’s heat so that we wouldn’t have to take the difficult
steps to stop spewing all this global warming pollution into the atmosphere.”

Ellen: “Mm hmm.”

Gore: “And of course, there are a lot of problems with what they’re proposing.
It turns out plants need sunlight,”

Ellen: “Yes”

Gore: “It wouldn’t stop the acidification of the oceans and it really should be yet another
wake-up call for why we need to stop putting all this pollution out there. We put 90 million tons
every day up there, and that’s what’s drying out the soil…that’s what’s contributing to the worsening
of these fires in the West, West Nile Virus worst outbreak ever last year, Superstorm Sandy.”
Quote from: Mick West
Debunked: Al gore admits to chemtrails
He's simply discussing the possible use of geoengineering in the future. He does not "admit" to any current use, and in fact he thinks we should not do it in the future, as he thinks it distracts from the carbon issues.

So no, Al Gore was not joking about ;D chemtrails ;D. He was not even talking about ;D chemtrails ;D!

But a conspiritard will never let a few inconvenient facts get in the way of a "good" conspiracy.
Title: Re: Please Explain What Earth Looks Like.
Post by: Stash on September 18, 2018, 05:52:34 PM
But a conspiritard will never let a few inconvenient facts get in the way of a "good" conspiracy.

I'd argue it's not even a good one. Just boring. Better to stick with the globe earth conspiracy, it's got everything: Money, illuminati/Masonic NASA, advanced CGI, hidden lands beyond the wall, secret nazi bases in Antarctica, the whole of Australia doesn't exist. Sexy, very sexy.