The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: rabinoz on August 20, 2016, 08:30:00 PM

Title: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: rabinoz on August 20, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
A number of Flat Earthers insist on an unequivocal "Newton is wrong claim"!

Of course, Newton was not aware of the finite velocity of light and had no thought of any "speed limit".

So I do wonder how these clever Flat Earthers do "everyday" calculations involving gravity and dynamics.

For example.
What method would you use to calculate the path and landing point of an object dropped from an aircraft at an altitude of 1,000 m, flying horizontally at 100 m/s? (Slow plane!)
Let's keep it easy and neglect air resistance.

Are you going to:
1) stay true to your "Newton is wrong claim" and use a full Tensor Calculus approach to GR (don't forget the mass of the plane!),

2) compromise a little and say to yourself "it's only a little object and the plane is not all that heavy or fast" and use the Schwarzschild Metric or

3) go the whole hog and say to yourself "Old Isaac might have been wrong, but his theory gives answers that are 'good enough'."?

Of course, in Newton's Laws of Motion the error is only 1 part in 1 million for speeds below about 420,000 m/s.

In other words what methods are used in practical, real world calculations?
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: fliggs on August 21, 2016, 02:46:20 AM
A number of Flat Earthers insist on an unequivocal "Newton is wrong claim"!

Of course, Newton was not aware of the finite velocity of light and had no thought of any "speed limit".

So I do wonder how these clever Flat Earthers do "everyday" calculations involving gravity and dynamics.

For example.
What method would you use to calculate the path and landing point of an object dropped from an aircraft at an altitude of 1,000 m, flying horizontally at 100 m/s? (Slow plane!)
Let's keep it easy and neglect air resistance.

Are you going to:
1) stay true to your "Newton is wrong claim" and use a full Tensor Calculus approach to GR (don't forget the mass of the plane!),

2) compromise a little and say to yourself "it's only a little object and the plane is not all that heavy or fast" and use the Schwarzschild Metric or

3) go the whole hog and say to yourself "Old Isaac might have been wrong, but his theory gives answers that are 'good enough'."?

Of course, in Newton's Laws of Motion the error is only 1 part in 1 million for speeds below about 420,000 m/s.

In other words what methods are used in practical, real world calculations?

It's cute that you think Flat Earthers do calculations of any kind at any point. All I see are opinions, assumptions dosed liberally with imagination and psychosis - not maths.
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: disputeone on August 21, 2016, 02:50:21 AM
I was bored and did some math regarding John Davis' approach of an infinite plane. Since I don't know how to embed formulas here, I uploaded a PDF. https://www.docdroid.net/abhC8KU/infplane.pdf.html (https://www.docdroid.net/abhC8KU/infplane.pdf.html)
Feel free to debate/criticize/point out errors.
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: rabinoz on August 21, 2016, 03:00:44 AM
In other words what methods are used in practical, real world calculations?

It's cute that you think Flat Earthers do calculations of any kind at any point. All I see are opinions, assumptions dosed liberally with imagination and psychosis - not maths.
;) Don't worry, the thought had crossed my mind, but there are a few that can probably do sums better than I,  so I refrained.  ;)
And some that do a lot more "higher maths" too.
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: fliggs on August 21, 2016, 03:03:56 AM
In other words what methods are used in practical, real world calculations?

It's cute that you think Flat Earthers do calculations of any kind at any point. All I see are opinions, assumptions dosed liberally with imagination and psychosis - not maths.
;) Don't worry, the thought had crossed my mind, but there are a few that can probably do sums better than I,  so I refrained.  ;)
And some that do a lot more "higher maths" too.

I'm yet to see any FEer describe even the smallest part of their model mathematically. It is a huge failing.
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: Omega on August 22, 2016, 01:27:07 AM
The way discussions here go is as follows:

1. Someone sees another hole in FE.
2. FE-er will respond with 'do a search, we already covered that'.
3. A search shows the hole was indeed poked before but not patched
4. The hole is patched by a creative FEer by inventing an ad-hoc argument (without any proof or mathematics)
5. The patch creates new holes.
6. Go to 1

It's ironic that a group of people who fight against a round Earth fly in predictable circular orbits.
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: fliggs on August 22, 2016, 01:35:43 AM
The way discussions here go is as follows:

1. Someone sees another hole in FE.
2. FE-er will respond with 'do a search, we already covered that'.
3. A search shows the hole was indeed poked before but not patched
4. The hole is patched by a creative FEer by inventing an ad-hoc argument (without any proof or mathematics)
5. The patch creates new holes.
6. Go to 1

It's ironic that a group of people who fight against a round Earth fly in predictable circular orbits.

love the irony!
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: rabinoz on August 22, 2016, 01:58:21 AM
The way discussions here go is as follows:

1. Someone sees another hole in FE.
2. FE-er will respond with 'do a search, we already covered that'.
3. A search shows the hole was indeed poked before but not patched
4. The hole is patched by a creative FEer by inventing an ad-hoc argument (without any proof or mathematics)
5. The patch creates new holes.
6. Go to 1

It's ironic that a group of people who fight against a round Earth fly in predictable circular orbits.

love the irony!
I have said earlier that Sceptimatic lived in an EFZ[1].
Looks a bit like the EFZ has been extended over the whole Society. Guess we should them a bit more time to oil up their slide-rules.


[1] An Equation Free Zone
Title: Re: What method do YOU use for calculations involving gravity and dynamics?
Post by: fliggs on August 22, 2016, 02:02:08 AM
The way discussions here go is as follows:

1. Someone sees another hole in FE.
2. FE-er will respond with 'do a search, we already covered that'.
3. A search shows the hole was indeed poked before but not patched
4. The hole is patched by a creative FEer by inventing an ad-hoc argument (without any proof or mathematics)
5. The patch creates new holes.
6. Go to 1

It's ironic that a group of people who fight against a round Earth fly in predictable circular orbits.

love the irony!
I have said earlier that Sceptimatic lived in an EFZ[1].
Looks a bit like the EFZ has been extended over the whole Society. Guess we should them a bit more time to oil up their slide-rules.


[1] An Equation Free Zone

yes the maths does seem to be consistently missing... along with logic, evidence and most of all, sanity.