# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 03:56:56 AM

Title: The Sun
Post by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 03:56:56 AM
I've been hearing that the Sun is 3000+ miles from the face of the earth.

Im not hot on Maths. My question is: At that distance, wouldn't the sun be visible constantly in the sky and viewable from anywhere on the planet? (Albeit on or near the horizon)
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Kami on May 03, 2016, 07:00:38 AM
Depends who you ask. Some say that the light of the sun bends upwards and is therefore impossible to be seen from a certain distance (which would actually explain sunsets). Others post something about perspective, but fail to explain how it can make the sun appear to sink. Others point out that the atmosphere is not 100% transparent, so you are only able to see things at a certain distance, but this also does not explain why the sun seems to set.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Slemon on May 03, 2016, 10:51:37 AM
Just to add to Kami's answer, FEers also seem to hold that the Sun's like a spotlight, so only one side emits light.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: 29silhouette on May 03, 2016, 11:22:40 AM
Just to add to Kami's answer, FEers also seem to hold that the Sun's like a spotlight, so only one side emits light.
But also appears as a sphere.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on May 03, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Just to add to Kami's answer, FEers also seem to hold that the Sun's like a spotlight, so only one side emits light.
But also appears as a sphere.

Which moves towards and away from you, but still looks the same size.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Kami on May 03, 2016, 02:21:20 PM
Come to think of it, that does sound confusing...
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 06:11:05 PM
Also, as the moon, I think, the Sun actually looks bigger on the horizon (I knows that perspective) .. but I think it should stil look much smaller than directly above.

On a flat plain for the sun to be hitting the horizon at 3000 miles up.. (im going to make this up now) it would have to be something like 20+ thousand miles away. I would have thought, at anywhere near this distance, an object of 30 miles across would have to appear smaller. Then again I don't know for sure.. what do you think....
Title: light does not travel forever
Post by: Charming Anarchist on May 03, 2016, 06:12:09 PM
Im not hot on Maths. My question is: At that distance, wouldn't the sun be visible constantly in the sky and viewable from anywhere on the planet? (Albeit on or near the horizon)
No.  It has nothing to do with math.

The fact is that light does NOT travel forever.  Light is easily obscured by whatever is in the air.

You see this every day:  a cloud in the sky can FULLY obscure the sun's rays.  Once the sun's is obscured by 2 and 3 and 4 clouds, the light is blocked.

Nightime is a result of the sun's rays fading out.
Title: Re: light does not travel forever
Post by: Stanton on May 03, 2016, 06:19:20 PM

Nightime is a result of the sun's rays fading out.

The Sun's "rays" are constant.

Night time is the result of the observers stationary position
on Earth rotating into Earth's umbra.
Title: Re: light does not travel forever
Post by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 07:09:25 PM
Thanks Charming.

That doesn't make any sense to me though.

On a clear day, over the Pacific, the Sun willl set and it will get dark in a calculatable way. Ie  (made up figure) 30 minutes after sunset.

We know that light must travel at least half the distance of the diameter of the earth. As the light from the 'stars' reaches us from the highest point of the dome.

So either the Sun, has moved from directly over head of me at noon to over 20+ thousand miles away in 6 or so hours,

Or there are ALWAYS clouds beyond the hire on to block the rays in a calculatable way.

Anyone's input would be welcome here... please.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 07:15:21 PM
Can someone smarter than me please do the maths for thr following....

On a flat plain, how far would an object 3000 miles high have to be away for it to appear to dip below the horizon? .. or at least touch the horizon..

Title: Re: light does not travel forever
Post by: JerkFace on May 03, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
Thanks Charming.

That doesn't make any sense to me though.

On a clear day, over the Pacific, the Sun willl set and it will get dark in a calculatable way. Ie  (made up figure) 30 minutes after sunset.

We know that light must travel at least half the distance of the diameter of the earth. As the light from the 'stars' reaches us from the highest point of the dome.

So either the Sun, has moved from directly over head of me at noon to over 20+ thousand miles away in 6 or so hours,

Or there are ALWAYS clouds beyond the hire on to block the rays in a calculatable way.

Anyone's input would be welcome here... please.

Or... ( gasp)  the earth is a sphere revolving on it's axis and the sun is a long way away.    They figured this out thousands of years ago, so it's not exactly news.
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Stanton on May 03, 2016, 07:48:04 PM

On a flat plain, how far would an object 3000 miles high have to be away for it to appear to dip below the horizon?

Never.
Title: Re: light does not travel forever
Post by: rabinoz on May 03, 2016, 08:10:38 PM
Im not hot on Maths. My question is: At that distance, wouldn't the sun be visible constantly in the sky and viewable from anywhere on the planet? (Albeit on or near the horizon)
No.  It has nothing to do with math.

The fact is that light does NOT travel forever.  Light is easily obscured by whatever is in the air.

You see this every day:  a cloud in the sky can FULLY obscure the sun's rays.  Once the sun's is obscured by 2 and 3 and 4 clouds, the light is blocked.

Nightime is a result of the sun's rays fading out.

That's real funny, because right where the Sun "faded out" due obscuring by the atmosphere we can often see the Moon, one of the planets even some of the stars appear a little later. Venus in particular is often seen in that location!

Makes me wonder how the Sun with an apparent brightness of 1,000,000 times the full Moon can be completely hidden by an atmosphere that allows to see the almost infinitely dimmer planets and stars.

It's a pity flat earther's never think of the consequences of what they assert without a trace of evidence!
Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Thafatearth on May 03, 2016, 08:34:22 PM
Never.
[/quote]

Yep that's what I got.

There's a lighthouse where I live. It's approximately 20m from sea level to the light. That still looks well above the horizon from across the Bay 10K away.

The Sun then is  some 241,350 times higher as the light house.

So to have the Sun anywhere close to the horizon at that height it would need to be 2,413,500 (yes that's two million) MILES away from the observer.

oh baby this is crude maths. (And potentially wrong, but not massively) But it means the sun SHOULD ALWAYS be above the horizon and visible to everyone on earth at all times at a poultry 40,000K diameter flat earth.

The fact it dips below the horizon AT ALL should be ringing alarms bells in everyone's brains.

Title: Re: The Sun
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on May 04, 2016, 10:51:04 AM
The fact it dips below the horizon AT ALL should be ringing alarms bells in everyone's brains.

It does, in all those who have brains.
There are other problems which destroy sunsets on a flat earth. To begin with, the atmospheric hazing idea can be thrown out because we don't see the sun fade, we see it cut off suddenly from below. The ability to see fainter objects in the same location is also a masterstroke in killing this idea, nice one.
Then there's motion. The further from an observer the sun moves, the more you should see its motion decelerate relative to the sky in a flat scenario. This is not observed. Its motion would also not be a simple arc across the sky, but a curve which tightens towards sunrise and sunset (i.e. a section of an ellipse rather than a section of a circle. Not sure of the mathematical term).