The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: FlatOrange on December 21, 2015, 05:05:36 PM

Title: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 21, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 21, 2015, 05:52:26 PM
They nailed the landing. Wow just amazing watched it live. Can't wait for some more shoots to come out in the morning of the landing.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 21, 2015, 05:56:57 PM
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 21, 2015, 06:12:57 PM
! No longer available (http://#)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 12:16:53 AM
See flat earth socioty. This is what happens when people put there money where there mouth is and actually do something! Not just bitch and moan on the Internet about how they are right and everyone else is wrong. This man has spent millions if not billions in what he belive in. And you guys can't even scrape enough money together for a weather bloon and go pro. Lol
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 12:27:32 AM
This man has spent millions if not billions in what he belive in

Nah.

He's spent about $10 on cheap-ass CGI.

A vertical-landing shpayze-rokkit - LMFAO!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: legion on December 22, 2015, 01:52:35 AM
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

I'm shaking too... with laughter. Very funny video. Reminds me of an evangelical church.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 02:15:32 AM
This man has spent millions if not billions in what he belive in

Nah.

He's spent about $10 on cheap-ass CGI.

A vertical-landing shpayze-rokkit - LMFAO!!!

If it only cost 10 dollars than maby you can afford to make one as well? I'm sure we would all like to see your one.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 02:18:43 AM
This man has spent millions if not billions in what he belive in
I think we might be waiting a while lol.
Nah.

He's spent about $10 on cheap-ass CGI.

A vertical-landing shpayze-rokkit - LMFAO!!!

If it only cost 10 dollars than maby you can afford to make one as well? I'm sure we would all like to see your one.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: tappet on December 22, 2015, 02:23:05 AM
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY
You are on the wrong forum, here let me help http://www.astronomyforum.net/space-forums/ (http://www.astronomyforum.net/space-forums/)
That is where you will find people to share your enthusiasm. Weird!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 02:35:45 AM
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY
You are on the wrong forum, here let me help http://www.astronomyforum.net/space-forums/ (http://www.astronomyforum.net/space-forums/)
That is where you will find people to share your enthusiasm. Weird!

Lol sour grapes
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:42:16 AM
I'm shaking too... with laughter.

Me too; this shit's strictly for kids & video-game addict retards.

I mean, look at the silly fake telemetry/data bar at the bottom: 'strongback retract'; 'boostback burn'...

LULZ!!!

And look at this idiot:

If it only cost 10 dollars than maby you can afford to make one as well? I'm sure we would all like to see your one.

You kinda just admitted it is CGI there, Mr. Video-game-addict retard with your retarded science-fiction character avatar...

Or maybe you're hitting on me too?

It's hard to tell when the slapstick Clown Derf posse are around...

But whatever; a vertical-landing shpayze-rokkit... ROFLMAO!!!



Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 02:47:03 AM
I'm assuming you didn't see the thousands of people at the site wathcing the landing?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:52:38 AM
I saw a CGI video full of glitches, lulz & impossible bullshit, retard; learn to read.

Oh, & tappet has his own space-program going; he's currently looking for investors...

If you're so keen on all this shpayze-malarkey then I assume you'll dig deep to help him out?

Thank you please!

Mr. Spock avatar... Vertical-landing shpayze-rokkits...

GTFO!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 02:53:56 AM
Maby you could point out some of the CGI errors. I wonder how much they had to pay all those thousands of spectators to be part of the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:59:51 AM
Yes, all those 'thousands' of glitchy CGI characters must have been paid millions...

What a jackass.

Anyhoo; you contributed to tappet's space-tourism business yet?

Money where mouth is please, Mr. Shpokk!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 03:09:49 AM
Can you point out a CGI mistake or not?

And why would I contribute money to something I consider to be wrong?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 03:12:53 AM
Also I'm not realy sure what tappet is doing. Some kind of expiation  to prove flat earth?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 03:18:21 AM
Can you point out a CGI mistake or not?

Yes I can, cos there's plenty.

But I ain't doing your debugging for free, SpaceX-tard.

And if 'thousands' of people watched this 'launch', how come the youtube of it has under 150 views & no comments yet?

Now; Mr. Shpokk will give monies to Mr. tappet's space-program please - give all monies until it hurts!

For SHPAYZZZE!!!!

Thank you please!

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 03:23:41 AM
So you can't find any then. Well yhats good to know. And what you tube video are you talking about? I'm talking about people wathcing it live in person at the launch site.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 03:50:43 AM
And what you tube video are you talking about?

This one, shpayze-tard, the same one nobody's watching or commenting on:

! No longer available (http://#)

It is made entirely of CGI, hoax & fail...

'Strongback Retract' - LULZ!!!

Now; hand over your cash to tappet or butt out, Mr. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpokkkk!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 04:01:53 AM
The link you have given is to a 3rd party channle so I can only conclude you are trying to deceive us on purpose or are just ignorant.  If you go to space x main YouTube channle it's currently on 530,000 views. But this is beside the point I said the thousands of people thst saw it in person.

On the CGI comment you are yet to point out a single annomily with the fottage.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 04:17:21 AM
The link you have given is to a 3rd party channle so I can only conclude you are trying to deceive us on purpose or are just ignorant.

Your own mate/alt flatorange posted the youtube, in this very thread; look:

! No longer available (http://#)

WTF is wrong with you?

Retard.

But this is beside the point I said the thousands of people thst saw it in person.

You were wrong.

On the CGI comment you are yet to point out a single annomily with the fottage.

'annomily'? 'fottage'? LOL!!! Has your brain broken?

And why would I contribute money to something I consider to be wrong?

What are you trying to say here?

There are THOUSANDS of people involved with tappet's space-program; are you some kind of tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist?

I think we're done here; I don't converse with conspiracy nutters!

Toodle-pip, Mr. Shpokk!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on December 22, 2015, 04:49:21 AM
I see you've  all met Thaggy.
I used to have some good laughs with Thaggy.

Anyway who was the one that was tingling over this CGI nonsense?
It wasn't you flatorange, was it?

So 2 trillion people at space X or NASA or wherever all clapping for this landing of a pipe on legs that looked like a landing sun before manifesting into this pipe.

I was going to have an eye bath to cleanse my eyes but there's no need now with all the crying with laughing I've done at this video and the reactions of people like flatorange and Thaggy and anyone else that dares to come in and jizz their pants over it.  ;D

I can picture Thaggy and flatorange at the dinner table talking about this launch and landing whilst sticking their sausages into their mashed potato mounds and making rocket noises as they grab their sausages and play neowmsssssssssssssssss in to the air with a crackle crackle scabumph back into their frigging mash.  ;D

I'm crying with laughing.  ;D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 04:50:41 AM
Oh, & is it just me or did flatorange include the words 'first landing success' in the title of this thread BEFORE the landing had actually happened?

Look at the time of his first post:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")

Yet here he is fifty minutes later:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

LOL!!!

Have the Clown Derfers been playing with their Ouija boards again?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 05:32:23 AM
He posted a link for people to watch it dsnt matter what feed he used. Where as if some one is trying to prove hardly anyone watched it then it's generally accepted practice to use the main feed. So glad we got that cleared up. So you were wrong on only a few poeple watching it and have shown us no annomily in the feed. Have you anything else to add?

And as for tappet I haven't the faintest idea what he is planning as I mentioned already.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 22, 2015, 06:07:20 AM
So you were wrong on only a few poeple watching it and have shown us no annomily in the feed. Have you anything else to add?
My guess is that the "anomaly" that PL is referring to is how the camera showing the 2nd stage engine kept jumping around every few seconds or so.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 06:14:43 AM
So, Mr. Shpokk; you're just gonna ignore the fact that flatorange somehow knew this landing would be a success an hour before it even occurred?

Cos that sounds real fishy to me.

But hey; I don't wanna come between a man & his Religion - if you believe in miracles then that's fine.

Just don't expect everyone else to join you in your Blind Faith.

As for the CGI glitches, they are there should you look for them...

You clearly do not wish to do so, and even if I pointed them out you would refuse to see them anyway.

There's a reason it's called BLIND Faith, you know?

Now; carry on enjoying your space-fraud.

I will carry on laughing at it.

Toodle-pip, Mr. Shpokk!

Oh, & markjo: nice misdirection; but no, there are plenty of glitches to be found throughout the whole thing...

All you gotta do is LOOK for them.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 22, 2015, 06:19:39 AM
Oh, & markjo: nice misdirection; but no, there are plenty of glitches to be found throughout the whole thing...

All you gotta do is LOOK for them.
Right.  The biggest glitch was showing a rocket engine working in a so called vacuum.  ::)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 06:24:43 AM
Got rockets in vacuums on the brain, aintcha old man?

The whole thing is CGI, so separating one part from another seems pointless, does it not?

And I see you are also avoiding the very strange fact that flatorange somehow knew the 'mission' would be a success an hour before it happened...

Funny, that, cos I'd say it's a big clue that the whole thing was faked, wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 06:25:39 AM
He made an educated guess. Chances are the launch was going to be successful so he wrote it as such. But that's something you will have to bring up with him.

All I'm asking for is the time stamp on one annomily. Just one that's all.  So far you have made several posts refusing to do so. Surely it would be easier just to post one. You are also yet to adress thousands of people watching it in person.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 06:40:24 AM
He made an educated guess. Chances are the launch was going to be successful so he wrote it as such.

As all previous attempts crashed, the 'educated guess' would logically be that this one would do the same.

No, the only logical deduction here is that flatorange knew in advance it would succeed.

And he knew that because it was all pre-rendered CGI, which he is paid to spam & promote on the internet.

As are you, in all likelihood.

Don't play games with Legba, Mr. Shpokk; cos Legba sees all voodoo.

I think we're finished here.

So toodle-pip, Loser!

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 06:43:50 AM
Beyond what iv said about the title I can't comment anymore you will have to ask him.

What about the thousands of people on and around the launch complex watching and point out where in the fottage doesn't look right?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 22, 2015, 07:07:43 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba link=topic=65198.msg1741362#msg1741362
Don't play games with Legba, Mr. Shpokk; cos Legba sees all voodoo.

So toodle-pip, Loser!
Not only seeing the voodoo, pinpointing all the flaws in a joyful style.

All the crony crooky clownesque crows are silenced by your sharp texts.

Keep up the vibe!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Göebbels on December 22, 2015, 07:18:09 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba link=topic=65198.msg1741362#msg1741362
Don't play games with Legba, Mr. Shpokk; cos Legba sees all voodoo.

So toodle-pip, Loser!
Not only seeing the voodoo, pinpointing all the flaws in a joyful style.

All the crony crooky clownesque crows are silenced by your sharp texts.

Keep up the vibe!

BIG citation needed :) denial isn't rebuttal.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on December 22, 2015, 08:05:06 AM
You don't need citations for this kind of garbage, just the ability to see bullshit and call it. This is not only bullshit, it's bull diarrhea.

Only kids reading scifi and adults collecting comics, who between them are unconditionally married to the magic of the fictional fantasies, should be afforded the leeway to absorb themselves into this stuff without ridicule. If any of you are like this, then fair enough.

Any of you who still believe this stuff and who protest that you aren't this type of person, then you deserve to be put into stocks in a shopping mall and pelted with rotten fruit whilst nude and laughed at continually for the entire day.

The other's, like Pythagoras and Flat-orange, etc can carry on promoting the bullshit in the full knowledge that it is, indeed that.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 22, 2015, 08:51:28 AM
Said from the guy who showed many times to know very few about physics let alone rocketry.

Ps papa and Gaia.... Get a room
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on December 22, 2015, 09:11:17 AM
You don't need citations for this kind of garbage, just the ability to see bullshit and call it. This is not only bullshit, it's bull diarrhea.

Only kids reading scifi and adults collecting comics, who between them are unconditionally married to the magic of the fictional fantasies, should be afforded the leeway to absorb themselves into this stuff without ridicule. If any of you are like this, then fair enough.

Any of you who still believe this stuff and who protest that you aren't this type of person, then you deserve to be put into stocks in a shopping mall and pelted with rotten fruit whilst nude and laughed at continually for the entire day.

The other's, like Pythagoras and Flat-orange, etc can carry on promoting the bullshit in the full knowledge that it is, indeed that.
Apart from your usual rants, have you anything of substance to bring to the thread?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Göebbels on December 22, 2015, 09:13:35 AM
You don't need citations for this kind of garbage, just the ability to see bullshit and call it. This is not only bullshit, it's bull diarrhea.

Only kids reading scifi and adults collecting comics, who between them are unconditionally married to the magic of the fictional fantasies, should be afforded the leeway to absorb themselves into this stuff without ridicule. If any of you are like this, then fair enough.

Any of you who still believe this stuff and who protest that you aren't this type of person, then you deserve to be put into stocks in a shopping mall and pelted with rotten fruit whilst nude and laughed at continually for the entire day.

The other's, like Pythagoras and Flat-orange, etc can carry on promoting the bullshit in the full knowledge that it is, indeed that.

all rant and no evidence of fakery.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Yendor on December 22, 2015, 09:38:43 AM
Did you all watch the eleven satellites deploy in the video on the below site called ORBCOMM-2?  As each satellite is deployed, you can see bits and pieces of something going racing off into space. Start watching at around 39:22 for good ones and you can see what I mean. They make the point that this contraption is going 17,000 mph. So, these objects flying out must be traveling 18,000 mph. I can't say what they look like to me for sure. They sort of look like air bubbles racing to the surface of the tank. They could be junk inside they forgot to sweep up. What ever they are they shouldn't be going any faster than the satellites free falling back to Earth. Everything falls at the same rate I'm told. To me I'd think they should travel the same speed as the satellites. What gives?
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/  (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 09:51:48 AM
Did you all watch the eleven satellites deploy in the video on the below site called ORBCOMM-2?  As each satellite is deployed, you can see bits and pieces of something going racing off into space. Start watching at around 39:22 for good ones and you can see what I mean. They make the point that this contraption is going 17,000 mph. So, these objects flying out must be traveling 18,000 mph. I can't say what they look like to me for sure. They sort of look like air bubbles racing to the surface of the tank. They could be junk inside they forgot to sweep up. What ever they are they shouldn't be going any faster than the satellites free falling back to Earth. Everything falls at the same rate I'm told. To me I'd think they should travel the same speed as the satellites. What gives?
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/  (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

And what led you to belive they were t ravaging 1000th faster than the craft?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Yendor on December 22, 2015, 10:21:08 AM
Did you all watch the eleven satellites deploy in the video on the below site called ORBCOMM-2?  As each satellite is deployed, you can see bits and pieces of something going racing off into space. Start watching at around 39:22 for good ones and you can see what I mean. They make the point that this contraption is going 17,000 mph. So, these objects flying out must be traveling 18,000 mph. I can't say what they look like to me for sure. They sort of look like air bubbles racing to the surface of the tank. They could be junk inside they forgot to sweep up. What ever they are they shouldn't be going any faster than the satellites free falling back to Earth. Everything falls at the same rate I'm told. To me I'd think they should travel the same speed as the satellites. What gives?
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/  (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

And what led you to belive they were t ravaging 1000th faster than the craft?

Did you watch them come shooting out? I was just guessing how fast they were traveling. I do know they were traveling a lot, I mean a lot, faster then the satellites were traveling. What do you suppose they were and how fast do you think they were traveling?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 10:28:16 AM
Most of the particles will be debris from the system used to jettison the 11 satellites. So they will be travaging between 0 and what ever the speed of the jettison satikite. 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 10:43:57 AM
Yes, I took a gamble and called it historic and said it would be their first successful landing. It was a gamble but considering theyve been trying to land on a barge i was counting on this being a much better chance of success. As for the video link the live feed had just ended and there were already like 5 videos on YouTube of it. I chose the shortest one. It was uploaded by a rando for all i know but it was uploaded fast and trimmed nicely.

as for joining another board, i have the real world to share passions with others. Theyre all out of town at the moment but that is a different matter.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Yendor on December 22, 2015, 10:47:04 AM
Most of the particles will be debris from the system used to jettison the 11 satellites. So they will be travaging between 0 and what ever the speed of the jettison satikite.


I thought about that, but they appear to be coming from nowhere near where the satellites were jettisoned from. They appear to be coming from someplace behind or out of sight. I swear they look like air bubbles to me. But, I know you guys aren't going to admit that. So, it is just an anomaly to me. Because I wouldn't expect to see anything come flying out. Of course the commentator never mentions them.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 10:47:58 AM
Air bubbles that travel in deferent directions?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 22, 2015, 11:48:48 AM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 11:54:08 AM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

I thibk that's underplaying space x achievement. No one has ever landed anything this big under power before.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 12:24:14 PM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

This was the BOOSTER stage. This isn't designed to land it's designed to get things to space. SpaceX made their booster stage land. NASA and ROSCOSMOS have never landed a booster.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 22, 2015, 12:29:43 PM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

This was the BOOSTER stage. This isn't designed to land it's designed to get things to space. SpaceX made their booster stage land. NASA and ROSCOSMOS have never landed a booster.

I recall diferently, but I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 12:53:42 PM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

This was the BOOSTER stage. This isn't designed to land it's designed to get things to space. SpaceX made their booster stage land. NASA and ROSCOSMOS have never landed a booster.

I recall diferently, but I might be wrong.
This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 01:00:40 PM
This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

I could not agree more, Nostradamus!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
This event accomplished the following:
First public viewing of a rocket booster landing.
First rocket booster landing after delivering payload into orbit
First rocket booster landing that was not a test run

All of this was open to the public, visible to as many people wanted to see in person, there were tons of media present, it wasn't a video made after the event it was verifiably live and in the real world.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 01:12:50 PM
SpaceX has said building a rocket costs $16 million. Fueling it is $200k. They just cut nearly $16 million from the cost to launch things to space.

Does that sound like an effective scam to you??
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 01:27:50 PM
Still wondering how you knew in advance it'd be a 'success', flatorange...

Look at the time of your first post, AFTER you'd named the thread:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")

Yet here you are fifty minutes later:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

Care to explain your astounding foreknowledge of the outcome?

Or why, in this post, you openly admit it has not actually been done:

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

There's something really wrong here, flatorange; everyone can see it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 22, 2015, 01:32:05 PM


Amazing bit of amature footage of the landing some few miles away. Amazing
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 01:36:23 PM
'Amazing'?

That wouldn't even 'amaze' a mediaeval peasant.

Wtf is wrong with you all?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 01:41:08 PM
When this thread started this had never been done. Right, i said "has never been done" in my last post referring to this. When i made this thread i was a cocky mofo. But if you'll see my other post where i explained, I've been watching spacex launches and this one had a major difference. Landing on land, not a barge. I was confident it was going to make history and it did. I wanted others to watch it happen as well. History in the making.  I make a lot of predictions on here and will often be cocky but I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. This time i was not wrong.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 01:54:47 PM
When this thread started this had never been done.

Indeed.

So how did you KNOW it would be done one hour in advance?

And why do you say here that it has in fact NEVER been done?

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
When this thread started this had never been done.

Indeed.

So how did you KNOW it would be done one hour in advance?

And why do you say here that it has in fact NEVER been done?

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?
Dude don't turn my thread into one of your troll dick wags. I'll answer you once more: I MADE A GAMBLE SAYING "FIRST SUCCESS" BEFORE IT HAPPENED. It was a gamble based on probability.

If you ask again i will report it as spam.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 22, 2015, 02:08:30 PM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

This was the BOOSTER stage. This isn't designed to land it's designed to get things to space. SpaceX made their booster stage land. NASA and ROSCOSMOS have never landed a booster.
Blue Origin landed their booster a few weeks ago.  Granted, it's not as big as the Space-X just landed, but still...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on December 22, 2015, 02:09:20 PM
So you can't find any then. Well yhats good to know. And what you tube video are you talking about? I'm talking about people wathcing it live in person at the launch site.
Don't hold your breath, Dr Papa Legba Professor of CGI at UAnon*, has never yet been known to give a straight answer. 
He will spout about how he knows so much about rokkit (sic) engine design, but his rokkits (just as sick) won't work up high.  No wonder he has to go on about CGI, since he can't do it, he knows it can't be done!

Now he'll rant and rave, but still will never come up any real information!

*  Dr Papa Legba used to be a Professor of Rokkit Technology, but he got fired from that job when all the rockets he designed failed - maybe he worked for NASA, they seem to be having a bit of trouble lately.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:10:30 PM
It was a gamble based on probability.

But as 100% of previous attempts had crashed, the probability of this attempt crashing was also 100%.

You don't make much sense.

But if reporting me is the only way for you to escape from this self-inflicted humiliation, then get it done.

Then everyone will know for sure that you are a desperate liar.

LOL!!!

They already know that anyway!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 02:11:55 PM
As an adamant defender of public research as the best way of ensuring open science practices and the best way to advance mankind, I don't think this SpaceX stunt is a good thing for space exploration, nor it is unique. Both NASA and ROSCOSMOS have done powered landings before. Even in other planets. Good for SpaceX for catching up.

This was the BOOSTER stage. This isn't designed to land it's designed to get things to space. SpaceX made their booster stage land. NASA and ROSCOSMOS have never landed a booster.
Blue Origin landed their booster a few weeks ago.  Granted, it's not as big as the Space-X just landed, but still...
Blue origin had not been brought up by Conker so i did not discuss BO. Please see my post on firsts below
This event accomplished the following:
First public viewing of a rocket booster landing.
First rocket booster landing after delivering payload into orbit
First rocket booster landing that was not a test run

All of this was open to the public, visible to as many people wanted to see in person, there were tons of media present, it wasn't a video made after the event it was verifiably live and in the real world.

Unless you're talking about my thread title which the "first" is referring to SpaceX, clearly, i might add.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
It was a gamble based on probability.

But as 100% of previous attempts had crashed, the probability of this attempt crashing was also 100%.

You don't make much sense.

But if reporting me is the only way for you to escape from this self-inflicted humiliation, then get it done.

Then everyone will know for sure that you are a desperate liar.

LOL!!!

They already know that anyway!
I was only saying I'd report you if you spammed me with the same question over and over as you have already asked 3 times. I should make a gamble you won't ask again now. Right? Or in your mind (and secretly mine) your rate of 100% asking the same question will just continue on 100% of the time.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:30:57 PM
I was only saying I'd report you if you spammed me with the same question over and over as you have already asked 3 times. I should make a gamble you won't ask again now. Right? Or in your mind (and secretly mine) your rate of 100% asking the same question will just continue on 100% of the time.

I have asked you a variety of questions.

You have avoided honestly answering all of them.

Here's a good one:

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?


I think you are finished now.

Toodle-pip, Loser!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 22, 2015, 02:41:36 PM
I was only saying I'd report you if you spammed me with the same question over and over as you have already asked 3 times. I should make a gamble you won't ask again now. Right? Or in your mind (and secretly mine) your rate of 100% asking the same question will just continue on 100% of the time.

I have asked you a variety of questions.

You have avoided honestly answering all of them.

Here's a good one:

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?


I think you are finished now.

Toodle-pip, Loser!
You're not understanding the first clause of the sentence. "This entire thread is based on..." When i created the thread i called it an historic event ( :) ) before it happened. Now that it's over i can confidently say THIS HAS BEEN DONE. ACHIEVED. SUCCESS. That still doesn't change the fact that i created the thread bearing in mind the thought "this has never been done". I would've been heartbroken and definitely laughed at if i said watch this history in the making and then they failed.

No, I'm not protecting myself by subversively using ambiguous tense to get out of something. Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: legion on December 22, 2015, 02:45:19 PM
I was only saying I'd report you if you spammed me with the same question over and over as you have already asked 3 times. I should make a gamble you won't ask again now. Right? Or in your mind (and secretly mine) your rate of 100% asking the same question will just continue on 100% of the time.

I have asked you a variety of questions.

You have avoided honestly answering all of them.

Here's a good one:

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?


I think you are finished now.

Toodle-pip, Loser!
You're not understanding the first clause of the sentence. "This entire thread is based on..." When i created the thread i called it an historic event ( :) ) before it happened. Now that it's over i can confidently say THIS HAS BEEN DONE. ACHIEVED. SUCCESS. That still doesn't change the fact that i created the thread bearing in mind the thought "this has never been done". I would've been heartbroken and definitely laughed at if i said watch this history in the making and then they failed.

No, I'm not protecting myself by subversively using ambiguous tense to get out of something. Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?

"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?

Yep; all of them, with any amount of logic or conviction.

If this was a trial you'd be toast.

But I'll leave the last word with legion:

"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.

Toodle-pip, you utter, utter, Losers!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 22, 2015, 02:51:56 PM
I was only saying I'd report you if you spammed me with the same question over and over as you have already asked 3 times. I should make a gamble you won't ask again now. Right? Or in your mind (and secretly mine) your rate of 100% asking the same question will just continue on 100% of the time.

I have asked you a variety of questions.

You have avoided honestly answering all of them.

Here's a good one:

This entire thread is based on the fact this was an historic event (got to say it again  :) ) one that has never been done.

Conspiracy to defraud is a very serious crime, as is aiding & abetting conspiracy to defraud.

Could it be that, by making statements such as the above, along with all your fudging, you are trying to give yourself legal wriggle-room in the case that you are caught?


I think you are finished now.

Toodle-pip, Loser!
You're not understanding the first clause of the sentence. "This entire thread is based on..." When i created the thread i called it an historic event ( :) ) before it happened. Now that it's over i can confidently say THIS HAS BEEN DONE. ACHIEVED. SUCCESS. That still doesn't change the fact that i created the thread bearing in mind the thought "this has never been done". I would've been heartbroken and definitely laughed at if i said watch this history in the making and then they failed.

No, I'm not protecting myself by subversively using ambiguous tense to get out of something. Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?

"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
How did the satellites get launched then?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: legion on December 22, 2015, 02:59:33 PM
What satellites?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 22, 2015, 03:11:04 PM
What satellites?
http://www.spacex.com/press/2015/12/21/press-kit-orbcomm-2-mission (http://www.spacex.com/press/2015/12/21/press-kit-orbcomm-2-mission)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on December 22, 2015, 03:33:56 PM
Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?
Yep; all of them, with any amount of logic or conviction.
If this was a trial you'd be toast.
But I'll leave the last word with legion:
"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
Toodle-pip, you utter, utter, Losers!
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that give us all the reasons why it can't be done, AND
Those that just go ahead and do it!

Papa, which are you?  Just askin'!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 22, 2015, 05:07:39 PM
You don't need citations for this kind of garbage, just the ability to see bullshit and call it. This is not only bullshit, it's bull diarrhea.

Only kids reading scifi and adults collecting comics, who between them are unconditionally married to the magic of the fictional fantasies, should be afforded the leeway to absorb themselves into this stuff without ridicule. If any of you are like this, then fair enough.

Any of you who still believe this stuff and who protest that you aren't this type of person, then you deserve to be put into stocks in a shopping mall and pelted with rotten fruit whilst nude and laughed at continually for the entire day.

The other's, like Pythagoras and Flat-orange, etc can carry on promoting the bullshit in the full knowledge that it is, indeed that.

all rant and no evidence of fakery.


Bubbles, ground squirrels and ridiculous hopping bunnies in the focking 1960s is definite proof it's all real. Don't question, just cry yourself to sleep thinking it's all real.

All the "proof" you need is provided by the cranky crooks themselves.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 22, 2015, 10:45:47 PM
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that give us all the reasons why it can't be done, AND
Those that just go ahead and do it!

Sounds like something you read off the back of a vodka bottle...

Enjoy your cartoons.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: tappet on December 23, 2015, 12:50:12 AM
Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?
Yep; all of them, with any amount of logic or conviction.
If this was a trial you'd be toast.
But I'll leave the last word with legion:
"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
Toodle-pip, you utter, utter, Losers!
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that give us all the reasons why it can't be done, AND
Those that just go ahead and do it!


Geoff?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on December 23, 2015, 04:24:10 AM
Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?
Yep; all of them, with any amount of logic or conviction.
If this was a trial you'd be toast.
But I'll leave the last word with legion:
"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
Toodle-pip, you utter, utter, Losers!
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that give us all the reasons why it can't be done, AND
Those that just go ahead and do it!


Geoff?
There is an ausGeoff, who also lives in Australia. We might share similar ideas, but are not the same person.  It is a bit hard for someone living down here to take the flat earth idea seriously when Australia is so distorted on any FET maps we see. DFET might be better, but I have yet to see Australia on any DFET map yet.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on December 23, 2015, 04:50:56 AM
Any variety of your questions i haven't answered?
Yep; all of them, with any amount of logic or conviction.
If this was a trial you'd be toast.
But I'll leave the last word with legion:
"It" didn't happen. You have been fooled. Again.
Toodle-pip, you utter, utter, Losers!
There are two types of people in this world:
Those that give us all the reasons why it can't be done, AND
Those that just go ahead and do it!


Geoff?
Spot on tappet. Remember: these internet typing mouthpieces do not just disappear; they simply realise that their other names get rendered meaningless so they change tactics but always give themselves away.
In time they re-use their other names, making out they had important things to do...and blah blah blah. You know the rest of it.

They're all at it on here. It's effing mental.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 23, 2015, 07:14:41 AM
There is an ausGeoff, who also lives in Australia.

How do you know who ausGeoff is & where he lives?

He disappeared months before you even joined!

You really need to stop drinking & posting, Geoff; you're making a spectacle of yourself.

Now; have you found any other Words of Wisdom printed on the labels of bottles of cheap hooch that you'd like to regale us with?

Or Pithy Aphorisms scrawled on the back of public toilet doors, perhaps? 

Maybe a Bon Mot or two you heard off another stumble-bum in the local drunk-tank?

If so, do please let us know; FES is nothing if not inclusive, no matter how disadvantaged your background!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 23, 2015, 09:19:18 AM
http://i.imgur.com/oR47nGV.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/oR47nGV.jpg)

Brilliant picture of the 1st stage on the landing pad.

Also just learnt that all future launches will attempt 1st stage recovery.  Brilliant news.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Yendor on December 23, 2015, 09:29:12 AM
Air bubbles that travel in deferent directions?

They probably used compressed air to propel the objects away from the pod and the air bubbles would be going in different directions. Did you look at these satellites real good? where are the solar panels? They look like hat boxes wrapped in gold foil. 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 23, 2015, 09:31:49 AM
Air bubbles go in one direction in water ( up )and the solar panels will be in their storage position and unfurled once away from the craft.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 23, 2015, 10:21:04 AM
Did you look at these satellites real good? where are the solar panels? They look like hat boxes wrapped in gold foil.
It's common practice to fold the solar arrays for compact storage and then unfold them after the satellite is deployed.  The gold foil is for thermal insulation.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 23, 2015, 11:11:30 AM
It's common practice to fold the solar arrays for compact storage and then unfold them after the satellite is deployed.  The gold foil is for thermal insulation.

Please explain EXACTLY how this is done.

No links; just in your own words.

LOL!!!

No chance...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 23, 2015, 11:34:52 AM
I think he just did.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 23, 2015, 11:36:04 AM
I know he just didn't.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 23, 2015, 11:40:35 AM
So you don't belive an object can be folded and unfolded?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 23, 2015, 11:44:33 AM
Not what I asked, Liar.

Look:

It's common practice to fold the solar arrays for compact storage and then unfold them after the satellite is deployed.  The gold foil is for thermal insulation.

Please explain EXACTLY how this is done.

No links; just in your own words.

LOL!!!

No chance...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 23, 2015, 11:48:17 AM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 23, 2015, 01:31:13 PM
It's common practice to fold the solar arrays for compact storage and then unfold them after the satellite is deployed.  The gold foil is for thermal insulation.

Please explain EXACTLY how this is done.

No links; just in your own words.

LOL!!!

No chance...
What's the problem with links? Please explain.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 23, 2015, 06:12:56 PM
It's common practice to fold the solar arrays for compact storage and then unfold them after the satellite is deployed.  The gold foil is for thermal insulation.

Please explain EXACTLY how this is done.

No links; just in your own words.
How is what done?  The folding of the solar arrays or the thermal insulation? 

Either way, I probably can't tell you EXACTLY how it's cone because I didn't work on those particular satellites.  However, I could probably explain the general principles of either, seeing as neither concept is terribly complicated.

Then again, you'll probably just say that it's all BS and we waste 10 pages of you pretending not to understand something that should be pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 23, 2015, 06:19:48 PM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
How would the thingy be able to do so?

@ ~0 Pa and ~3 K? :D

Hilarious.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 23, 2015, 06:43:51 PM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
How would the thingy be able to do so?

@ ~0 Pa and ~3 K? :D

Hilarious.
Space is at 3K, but the satellite isnt: its actually usually pretty hot. The vacuum problem isnt.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf (http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf)
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/ (http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 23, 2015, 06:48:48 PM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
How would the thingy be able to do so?

@ ~0 Pa and ~3 K? :D

Hilarious.
Space is at 3K, but the satellite isnt: its actually usually pretty hot. The vacuum problem isnt.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf (http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf)
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/ (http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/)

Space is empty thus stone cold (no particles to perform movement). Due to radiation the sun-lit site of a fictional satellite would be heated. Problem is the ~600 K/C Temperature difference between the sun-lit and shadow sides. No material can withstand that; at such low temperatures the material properties of any material go completely loco. Andromeda Galaxy can tell you all about it; he's a material science engineer.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 23, 2015, 06:59:35 PM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
How would the thingy be able to do so?

@ ~0 Pa and ~3 K? :D

Hilarious.
Space is at 3K, but the satellite isnt: its actually usually pretty hot. The vacuum problem isnt.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf (http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf)
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/ (http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/)

Space is empty thus stone cold (no particles to perform movement). Due to radiation the sun-lit site of a fictional satellite would be heated. Problem is the ~600 K/C Temperature difference between the sun-lit and shadow sides. No material can withstand that; at such low temperatures the material properties of any material go completely loco. Andromeda Galaxy can tell you all about it; he's a material science engineer.

There is no such heat difference PRECISELY because there is no air. The only way a self-heating body such as a satellite can cool down in a vacuum is via radiation, which is extremely slow. Indeed, one of the constant problems the ISS used to suffer was a defect in the ammonia pumps that COOL down the station from OVERHEATING, via liquid heat exchanging to a radiative panel. They used to tear down practically by the month. They were fixed, iirc, in 2013.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 23, 2015, 07:02:29 PM
You don't belive an object can be unfolded In space?
How would the thingy be able to do so?

@ ~0 Pa and ~3 K? :D

Hilarious.
Space is at 3K, but the satellite isnt: its actually usually pretty hot. The vacuum problem isnt.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5751&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf (http://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/49/Resources/dokumente/archiv5/1107P_Mirshams.pdf)
http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/ (http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajme/1/3/2/)

Space is empty thus stone cold (no particles to perform movement). Due to radiation the sun-lit site of a fictional satellite would be heated. Problem is the ~600 K/C Temperature difference between the sun-lit and shadow sides. No material can withstand that; at such low temperatures the material properties of any material go completely loco. Andromeda Galaxy can tell you all about it; he's a material science engineer.
hence the thermal insulation and the fact that the sunlit side will not ever stay the sunlit side.  There will be rotation as it orbits.  And of course, in the real world things take time to heat up and cool down.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 23, 2015, 10:47:05 PM
Either way, I probably can't tell you EXACTLY how it's cone.

Thought so.

Toodle-pip, Walter Mitty.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 24, 2015, 12:49:17 AM
Either way, I probably can't tell you EXACTLY how it's cone.

Thought so.

Toodle-pip, Walter Mitty.
If you want to know look it up.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 24, 2015, 01:20:50 AM
Either way, I probably can't tell you EXACTLY how it's cone.

Thought so.

Toodle-pip, Walter Mitty.
If you want to know look it up.

Oh, I already have.

And I'm still laughing at it.

Now I know why flatorange felt like this:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

SpaceX are super-lulzy!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 24, 2015, 01:43:35 AM
Still no explanation for the satellites it launched.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 24, 2015, 02:44:45 AM
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)

Some of the many amature shots of the space x landing as seen from all over that part of florida.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 24, 2015, 10:25:34 PM
http://i.imgur.com/oR47nGV.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/oR47nGV.jpg)

Brilliant picture of the 1st stage on the landing pad.

Also just learnt that all future launches will attempt 1st stage recovery.  Brilliant news.

Thanks for posting that, Pythagoras!!

Also, i believe there are two launches coming up quite soon!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 12:19:49 AM
I belive Jan 17 is the Jason sat launch. They are looking at at least 12 launches this year including falcon heavy!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 08:43:48 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 25, 2015, 09:05:47 AM
Back burns from the Engine would have been enough (if u have thrust to accelerate upwards u also have thrust to decelerate) but that would have meant carrying more fuel, reducing payload...that's why the airbrakes
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 09:27:15 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .

Lol nice to see you still try and plug your rediculous joke of a website everytime. Desperate for those site visits are you
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 10:40:43 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .

Lol nice to see you still try and plug your rediculous joke of a website everytime. Desperate for those site visits are you

I agree the SpaceX stunt is very absurd worth lots of laughter (and not rediculous but ridiculous).

Imagine sending a rocket into space to 80 000 m altitude and 1 700 m/s speed and then recovering it intact in 435 seconds by bringing it back to ground at 0 m altitude and 0 m/s speed almost where it started less than 10 minutes earlier. 

It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.

I am not surprised that media swallow the Elon Musk nonsense with rod, floater, sinker and hook. Media do not know the difference of fantasy and reality nowadays.



Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
I don't knees to imagine I have watched it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 25, 2015, 10:45:18 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .

Lol nice to see you still try and plug your rediculous joke of a website everytime. Desperate for those site visits are you

I agree the SpaceX stunt is very absurd worth lots of laughter (and not rediculous but ridiculous).

Imagine sending a rocket into space to 80 000 m altitude and 1 700 m/s speed and then recovering it intact in 435 seconds by bringing it back to ground at 0 m altitude and 0 m/s speed almost where it started less than 10 minutes earlier. 

It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.

I am not surprised that media swallow the Elon Musk nonsense with rod, floater, sinker and hook. Media do not know the difference of fantasy and reality nowadays.
What's the story then on the satellites it launched?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 10:47:52 AM
Oh and it used cold gas jets to orientate itself. I thought you were an expert?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 10:55:41 AM
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)

Some of the many amature shots of the space x landing as seen from all over that part of florida.

Hm, I just see a dark sky where a fireball is suddenly appearing slowly descending for 20 seconds and then disappearing close to ground. I doubt it is a 50 m tall, penis shaped rocket landing. But great fun! Imagine what the American amatory amatures can come up with.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 10:57:46 AM
Yeah I suppose they had to pay off most of thst part of florida off and will have to now for every launch they do from now on as well as Texas once they stsrt flying from there.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 11:01:40 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .

Lol nice to see you still try and plug your rediculous joke of a website everytime. Desperate for those site visits are you

I agree the SpaceX stunt is very absurd worth lots of laughter (and not rediculous but ridiculous).

Imagine sending a rocket into space to 80 000 m altitude and 1 700 m/s speed and then recovering it intact in 435 seconds by bringing it back to ground at 0 m altitude and 0 m/s speed almost where it started less than 10 minutes earlier. 

It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.

I am not surprised that media swallow the Elon Musk nonsense with rod, floater, sinker and hook. Media do not know the difference of fantasy and reality nowadays.
argument from incredulity and your site IS ridiculous.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 11:05:11 AM
Before it was on a barge out at sea off limits for any observers but in daytime. Now it is in pitch dark night. Anyway - the last 20 seconds of the stunt - the landing burn - seems to take place at very slow speed. Less than a minute earlier the rocket must have been flying backwards with speed exceeding that of sound. Imagine flying backwards at the speed of sound!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 11:09:06 AM
So Elon Musk and SpaceX suggest that they sent up a Falcon 9 rocket in space at a certain time the other day and that its first, nine engines stage transported the second stage to 80 000 m altitude after 150 seconds, where the seconds stage took off into space, etc.

The first stage also continued upwards to 200 000 m altitude into space by its own momentum, they suggest, but then it dropped down from there and landed more or less where it had started 435 seconds later. To do so the first stage performed a backwards loop - total trajectory >350 000 m, at very high speed during 435 seconds.
(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)
To change direction back to where it started Boost back burns were done by the rocket engines and to stop the drop to enable the first stage to slow down and land an Entry burn and a Landing burn were also done. But it was not enough! Hypersonic grid fins were deployed from the first stage to reduce speed and steer it back to ground.

I have never experienced so much nonsense in so short time ... live on TV ... lately. I describe more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .

Lol nice to see you still try and plug your rediculous joke of a website everytime. Desperate for those site visits are you

I agree the SpaceX stunt is very absurd worth lots of laughter (and not rediculous but ridiculous).

Imagine sending a rocket into space to 80 000 m altitude and 1 700 m/s speed and then recovering it intact in 435 seconds by bringing it back to ground at 0 m altitude and 0 m/s speed almost where it started less than 10 minutes earlier. 

It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.

I am not surprised that media swallow the Elon Musk nonsense with rod, floater, sinker and hook. Media do not know the difference of fantasy and reality nowadays.
argument from incredulity and your site IS ridiculous.

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 11:10:01 AM
So what will your excuse be from now on now thst they will recover the 1st stage with every launch? Have you updated your info to include the cold gas jets for orientation?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 25, 2015, 11:20:16 AM
Before it was on a barge out at sea off limits for any observers but in daytime. Now it is in pitch dark night. Anyway - the last 20 seconds of the stunt - the landing burn - seems to take place at very slow speed. Less than a minute earlier the rocket must have been flying backwards with speed exceeding that of sound. Imagine flying backwards at the speed of sound!

A rocket is not airplane, is a slender body, from an aerodynamic Point of view it does not make much difference flying in one direction or the opposite...

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 11:25:50 AM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 01:06:52 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 01:11:38 PM
Lol yeah that's why ariane are trying to play catch up by developing their own reusable rocket. Shame they are 10 years behind.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 01:12:44 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 01:20:31 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 25, 2015, 01:23:08 PM
I never seen any scientific facts. You didn't even know they used rcs as a control system. Can't realy claim to know much if you didn't know that.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 01:35:49 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.

Typical Heiwa.  Get called out on YOUR failings about YOU and YOUR website which YOU brought up and instead of addressing it you try to act like a moderator.  YOU are a joke.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: legion on December 25, 2015, 02:49:28 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.

Typical Heiwa.  Get called out on YOUR failings about YOU and YOUR website which YOU brought up and instead of addressing it you try to act like a moderator.  YOU are a joke.

You're a bitter little troll, aren't you?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 03:03:51 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.

Typical Heiwa.  Get called out on YOUR failings about YOU and YOUR website which YOU brought up and instead of addressing it you try to act like a moderator.  YOU are a joke.

You're a bitter little troll, aren't you?
You'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that everything I posted is true.  That you're defending Heiwa is hilarious though.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: legion on December 25, 2015, 03:13:25 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.

Typical Heiwa.  Get called out on YOUR failings about YOU and YOUR website which YOU brought up and instead of addressing it you try to act like a moderator.  YOU are a joke.

You're a bitter little troll, aren't you?
You'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that everything I posted is true.  That you're defending Heiwa is hilarious though.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out that YOU are an obnoxious little troll. I dislike trolls (like YOU) INTENSELY.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2015, 03:23:18 PM

Hm, my space travel web pages are factual, scientific and popular with plenty visitors. You seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance.
your pages are full of ignorance and arguments from incredulity.  you've been caught changing them when people submit answers to your challenge so you can avoid awarding the money you don't have.  You only get visitors because you spam your site everywhere you go (getting some ad revenue maybe?).  YOU and your site are a joke.

Hm, my web page http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm) is very popular thanks Google and whatever and my 10 000 visitors/month seem happy. Being a share holder of Arianespace that sends satellites into space at regular intervals, maybe makes me partial, but this SpaceX Elon Musk clown and his circus has no chance against us.
Delusional as ever, aren't you?  I see you AGAIN avoided the FACT that you change your page to avoid awarding your challenge.  And of course you spam your website AGAIN.  Need that ad revenue, huh?  Overextend yourself a bit for Christmas and felt the need to spam your page a bit?
Topic is SpaceX and Elon Musk's rocket sent up in dark space and first stage of which returns back to Earth after 10 minutes in the Florida darkness witnessed by some amaturs (sic) putting videos of a black sky on Utube. I provide scientific facts that it is a hoax and you change subject. Please, try to focus on topic.

Typical Heiwa.  Get called out on YOUR failings about YOU and YOUR website which YOU brought up and instead of addressing it you try to act like a moderator.  YOU are a joke.

You're a bitter little troll, aren't you?
You'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that everything I posted is true.  That you're defending Heiwa is hilarious though.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out that YOU are an obnoxious little troll. I dislike trolls (like YOU) INTENSELY.
too bad for you.  I frankly don't care.  I've contributed to this thread by calling out Heiwa for his blatant lies.  How does that make me a troll exactly?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 09:33:51 PM
It seems we all agree that the Elon Musk first stage rocket must have had zero (0) vertical speed at the top of the space somersault at about 200 000 m altitude in empty space, from which it then dropped by gravity down on Earth. Gravity force accelerates things including Elon Musk's rocket with engines and the question is, if Elon really can carry out the stunt and prevent his rocket to crash, e.g. doing entry and landing burns at the right times with fuel left aboard.

Elon lamely suggests that he was also using hypersonic grid fins to steer the rocket in vacuum space where there is no air. It sounds like typical snake oil publicity. IMO Musk is a fraud.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 25, 2015, 10:14:18 PM
Elon lamely suggests that he was also using hypersonic grid fins to steer the rocket in vacuum space where there is no air.
Where does he suggest that?  ???
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 25, 2015, 11:14:09 PM
Elon lamely suggests that he was also using hypersonic grid fins to steer the rocket in vacuum space where there is no air.
Where does he suggest that?  ???
In his press kit and on his ridiculous web site describing the Falcon 9 rocket first stage. The hypersonic grid fins are fitted at the top of the first stage and flip out when the first stage drops down from empty space at 200 000 m altitude at increased velocity - at least 3-4 Mach - to steer the rocket straight vertically. How you steer anything with a rudder type fin in vacuum is beyond me. My ships at sea have rudders fitted behind a propeller, etc, etc. and work by turning them. Maybe Elon copy/pasted something from the US Shuttle that also used wing flaps to steer and brake in space during 30 years? If that hoax worked for NASA, it will also work for Elon.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 12:52:53 AM
No he dosent. Show us where he says the grid fins are used in a vacume. The stage uses RCS thrusters orientate itself and then the grid fins once lower in the atmosphere in combination with the RCS. I thought you were an expert?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 02:54:05 AM
No he dosent. Show us where he says the grid fins are used in a vacume. The stage uses RCS thrusters orientate itself and then the grid fins once lower in the atmosphere in combination with the RCS. I thought you were an expert?


http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/08/31/grid-fins (http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/08/31/grid-fins)

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/536258543675252739?lang=fr (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/536258543675252739?lang=fr)

PS what is dosent? Or do you mean dozes?

Anyway - all SpaceX videos of rocket landings show the rocket dropping down very slowly ... and then the fins are useless. They only work at hypersonic speeds ... in air I assume.

Maybe they are used higher up where there is a little air - say at 40 000 m altitude? Say your hypersonic vertical speed there is 400 m/s. It means that you will hit ground after 100 seconds unless you slow down. But the whole salto mortale up to 200 000 m altitude takes 435 seconds at average hypersonic speed 800 m/s, so I cannot see how the final landing fits with it.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 03:02:15 AM
Well done you have shown me pictures of the grid fins. I know it uses grid fins. Now show me where it says they are used in a vacume.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 03:11:13 AM




It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.





Notice in this paragraph whwre you describe the grid fins being used to perform the 180 degree spin.  Show me where space x says this is how it works.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 04:51:56 AM




It seems the SpaceX rocket, apart from flipping 180° around itself,  performed a high-speed, backwards, part loop or salto mortale or somersault, top of which was at 200 000 m altitude, with a vertical ending, which takes place >95% in space where there is no air using hypersonic grid fins (LOL) for steering and braking apart from firing the rocket engines now and then.





Notice in this paragraph whwre you describe the grid fins being used to perform the 180 degree spin.  Show me where space x says this is how it works.

http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/03/31/reusability-key-making-human-life-multi-planetary (http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/03/31/reusability-key-making-human-life-multi-planetary)

(http://)

(http://)


Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 05:04:14 AM
Well done you have provided forage of them bieng used near the surface well within the atmosphere. Now where is your evidence they are used in a vacume as you have stated, I'm still waiting
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 05:44:41 AM
Well done you have provided forage of them bieng used near the surface well within the atmosphere. Now where is your evidence they are used in a vacume as you have stated, I'm still waiting

Forage? Are you drunk? Or on drugs? What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?

Anyway - just study Elon's own fantasies on his ridiculous web site. Elon is of course supported by NASA and the US government and US media that announce the nonsense without any evidence of any kind.

Why don't you ask them to provide the evidence that the stunt was done? A detailed trajectory. How to carry out any boost back, entry and landning burns in the right directions at the right times and positions. Here Elon performs miracles and nobody ask for the details. Typical snake oil sales promotion.

 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 05:52:18 AM
Well done you have spotted a spelling mistake. 

No you said as I have shown in your post that the grid fins were used to manoeuvre at 200,000 feet and how this is impossible. . Now your are yet to show us any evidence to suggest that this is how space x has said it was done.

Why can't you show us. You were so confident when you posted it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 26, 2015, 05:58:45 AM
Well done you have provided forage of them bieng used near the surface well within the atmosphere. Now where is your evidence they are used in a vacume as you have stated, I'm still waiting

Forage? Are you drunk? Or on drugs? What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?

Anyway - just study Elon's own fantasies on his ridiculous web site. Elon is of course supported by NASA and the US government and US media that announce the nonsense without any evidence of any kind.

Why don't you ask them to provide the evidence that the stunt was done? A detailed trajectory. How to carry out any boost back, entry and landning burns in the right directions at the right times and positions. Here Elon performs miracles and nobody ask for the details. Typical snake oil sales promotion.
What about the satellites it launched?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 06:01:10 AM
Or the massive 1st stage thst landed in the middle of florida. Lol.

But don't forget to post your source about the grid fins I have asked for several times. I'm still waiting.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 26, 2015, 06:11:37 AM
What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?


There's plenty of airplane able to fly well Beyond 10000m, even normal airliners fly often up to 13000m
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 07:32:36 AM
What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?


There's plenty of airplane able to fly well Beyond 10000m, even normal airliners fly often up to 13000m

Thanks for your intelligent comment. Topic is however the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket first stage that, after having delivered its second stage at 80 000 m altitude and 1 700 m/s speed up and away from the launch pad, continued up to 200 000 m altitude, where it stopped due to Earth gravity pulling it back, and then dropped back to return land on Earth. The whole show lasted only 435 seconds and could be followed live on SpaceX webcast. Have you watched it?

The trip up to 200 000 m altitude may have taken, say 135 seconds firing boost back burns to slow it down, so the return must have taken 300 seconds.

There is no real air at 200 000 m altitude or 100 000 m altitude or even 50 000 m altitude. No, most of the air is below 20 000 m altitude.

Thus, according Elon Musk his SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket first stage - mass say 20 000 kg - started to free fall down after 135 seconds going up.

If anything freefalls from 200 000 m altitude, ignoring air friction, it will hit ground at 1 982 m/s hypersonic speed after 200 seconds.

This didn't happen. No - Elon's rocket landed with 0 m/s speed after 300 seconds flight. There was an entry burn and a landing burn to slow down the rocket first stage but how Elon's experts stopped the flight is not clear. Hypersonic grid fins (LOL) steered the rocket.

Actually it is not possible to stop anything from dropping from 200 000 m altitude. You cannot carry the fuel with you to overtake gravity forces by rocket forces in the opposite direction.

So Elon and SpaceX are a fraud! Basic.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 07:36:05 AM
I notice you have stopped referring the the grid fins bieng used at 200,000 feet to flip the 1st stage. Il take that as an admission you were wrong.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 26, 2015, 07:46:51 AM
Elon Musk is far from a fraud. His Tesla car is one of the great inventions of the last decades.

SpaceX is a fraud, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 08:25:19 AM
Oh also iv noticed you havnt updated you popular website to remove the part where you say about the grid fins bieng used in a vacume. Just thought you should probably update it. We know your quite used to changing sections.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 26, 2015, 08:33:38 AM
Elon Musk is far from a fraud. His Tesla car is one of the great inventions of the last decades.

SpaceX is a fraud, that's for sure.

Didn't he have to recall a sh*t load of those Teslas because people would die if he did not? 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 26, 2015, 08:52:32 AM

What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?

 No, most of the air is below 20 000 m altitude.

which one is it??
 first u claim that above 10000m there's basically no air, almost a vacuum and then u say it's 20000....
if i tell u that there are jet engines able to operate above 20000 m??
 u'll say that above 30000 there's vacuum?
ahahahah
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 09:02:50 AM

What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?

 No, most of the air is below 20 000 m altitude.

which one is it??
 first u claim that above 10000m there's basically no air, almost a vacuum and then u say it's 20000....
if i tell u that there are jet engines able to operate above 20000 m??
 u'll say that above 30000 there's vacuum?
ahahahah

You really have to refer to my web site where the Earth atmosphere is described. At 20 000 m altitude you will die unless you carry your own air with you, etc, etc. Topic is not that or jet engines.

Topic is Elon Musk and his 20 tons SpaceX first rocket stage dropping from 200 000 m altitude in 300 seconds and then landing at 0 m/s speed on the ground. If you study my web site, you'll understand that it is not possible. You will always crash.

I also explain how the hoax was done.

BTW a friend of mine actually drives a $ 100 000:- Tesla S - but only 40 kms/day back and to the office. He cannot drive to his summer house as it is too far away and there are no charge points in between. He then must borrow my 16 years old $ 1 000:- Opel that does the job easily.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 09:05:39 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 09:13:33 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 09:18:03 AM
Well I can assure you its riddled with mistakes but the one I refer to is the one where you talk about the grid fins bieng used at 200,000 feet.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 26, 2015, 09:30:43 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 09:31:36 AM
Well I can assure you its riddled with mistakes but the one I refer to is the one where you talk about the grid fins bieng used at 200,000 feet.

Sorry, I use metric units on my site. According Elon SpaceX uses the hypersonic grid fins to steer the rocket when it drops vertically down from 200 000 m altitude. During 90% of that high speed straight/vertical drop there is no air to talk about ... and, if the rocket has hypersonic speed where it is air, it will crash in less than a minute.

I have landed vertically many times ... using a helicopter. I assure you, if a helicopter has hypersonic vertical speed shortly before landning it will ... CRASH. Same with a rocket with hypersonic grid fins.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sokarul on December 26, 2015, 09:33:34 AM
Just remember Heiwa thinks he know everything because he is a boat engineer.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 09:34:55 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 26, 2015, 09:35:49 AM

What atmosphere are you referring too? The one below 10 000 m altitude with air? Or the one above with little air and almost vacuum, where Elon performs his stunts?

 No, most of the air is below 20 000 m altitude.

which one is it??
 first u claim that above 10000m there's basically no air, almost a vacuum and then u say it's 20000....
if i tell u that there are jet engines able to operate above 20000 m??
 u'll say that above 30000 there's vacuum?
ahahahah

You really have to refer to my web site where the Earth atmosphere is described. At 20 000 m altitude you will die unless you carry your own air with you, etc, etc. Topic is not that or jet engines.

Topic is Elon Musk and his 20 tons SpaceX first rocket stage dropping from 200 000 m altitude in 300 seconds and then landing at 0 m/s speed on the ground. If you study my web site, you'll understand that it is not possible. You will always crash.

I also explain how the hoax was done.

BTW a friend of mine actually drives a $ 100 000:- Tesla S - but only 40 kms/day back and to the office. He cannot drive to his summer house as it is too far away and there are no charge points in between. He then must borrow my 16 years old $ 1 000:- Opel that does the job easily.
If there's enough air to operate a jet engine there's plenty of air for the airbrakes.
If the rocket engines are able to accelerate the rocket and make it climb to 200.000 m against gravity and air resistance it's more than able to make it decelerate from 200.000m, since while descending air resistance helps slow it down
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 26, 2015, 09:36:42 AM
Just remember Heiwa thinks he know everything because he is a boat engineer.
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 09:37:37 AM
Yes I ment meters. Now nowhere does space   claim the fins are used at that altitude ( 200 000 m ) only you claim they say they do.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 26, 2015, 09:42:28 AM
Of course you must go to his website (where he just makes assertions and arguments from incredulity) because he needs the ad revenue.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 26, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Please tell us here.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 10:44:47 AM
Yes I ment meters. Now nowhere does space   claim the fins are used at that altitude ( 200 000 m ) only you claim they say they do.

Hm, it seems SpaceX has updated its web page about the hypersonic grid fins = removed it. ;D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
No it was never said in the 1st place. Have you got any evidence to say it was? I bet not some how but you will continue to claim it has so you can continue your delusion.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 10:49:38 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Please tell us here.
Hm, just watch the SpaceX show where the second stage ejects bits of the payload at regular intervals up in space somewhere - live on a big TV screen - with people cheering in the background.

But I wonder what happened to the second stage after ejecting the satellites. Did SpaceX fire the engine direction down and ditched the second stage in the Pacific?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pavarotti on December 26, 2015, 10:55:04 AM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Please tell us here.
Hm, just watch the SpaceX show where the second stage ejects bits of the payload at regular intervals up in space somewhere - live on a big TV screen - with people cheering in the background.

But I wonder what happened to the second stage after ejecting the satellites. Did SpaceX fire the engine direction down and ditched the second stage in the Pacific?

The second stage was send to higher orbit as a test
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 10:56:00 AM
The second stage conducted a coast and second relight test to certify it for geo orbit transfer missions. You realy don't know much considering you proclaim to be an expert.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
The second stage conducted a coast and second relight test to certify it for geo orbit transfer missions. You realy don't know much considering you proclaim to be an expert.
This is maybe an intelligent post but I cannot follow the coast, relight, orbit mission, blah, blah. What drug is pushing you for it. And where can I get it?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 11:54:59 AM
Playing dumb won't help you. It coasted then re lit it's engins. Wow thst was hard.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 12:03:48 PM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Please tell us here.
Hm, just watch the SpaceX show where the second stage ejects bits of the payload at regular intervals up in space somewhere - live on a big TV screen - with people cheering in the background.

But I wonder what happened to the second stage after ejecting the satellites. Did SpaceX fire the engine direction down and ditched the second stage in the Pacific?

The second stage was send to higher orbit as a test

Subtopic is what happened to the second stage. Yes, according to SpaceX it was sent to a higher orbit. Had it been sent into a lower orbit it would have crashed in North, West, South or East Europe, Africa, probably North, or Middle East but not Israel or Iran or Iraq because they are special, but none of us here on the other side of the ditch or pool or water want having a second stage SpaceX shit dropping on us. Capito?
So luckily it was sent to a higher orbit. Hopefully around the Sun, the BLACK HOLE of the Milky Way, or Billions of other Milky backstreets. Thank you.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 12:06:11 PM
Your website just says you don't think it's possible. Not why it's not possible.

Also have you updated the mistake about the grid fins I pointed out?

Thanks for visiting my web site/pages. You are right that I update it/them regularly, sometimes inspired by discussions like this one. There should be no mistakes.
And the satellites it launched?
I mention it at my web page. Being a shareholder of a company launching real satellites, you must consider me biassed.
Please tell us here.
Hm, just watch the SpaceX show where the second stage ejects bits of the payload at regular intervals up in space somewhere - live on a big TV screen - with people cheering in the background.

But I wonder what happened to the second stage after ejecting the satellites. Did SpaceX fire the engine direction down and ditched the second stage in the Pacific?

The second stage was send to higher orbit as a test

Subtopic is what happened to the second stage. Yes, according to SpaceX it was sent to a higher orbit. Had it been sent into a lower orbit it would have crashed in North, West, South or East Europe, Africa, probably North, or Middle East but not Israel or Iran or Iraq because they are special, but none of us here on the other side of the ditch or pool or water want having a second stage SpaceX shit dropping on us. Capito?
So luckily it was sent to a higher orbit. Hopefully around the Sun, the BLACK HOLE of the Milky Way, or Billions of other Milky backstreets. Thank you.

Is their a point or a question in that post somewhere or just a rambling rant?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pavarotti on December 26, 2015, 12:19:13 PM


Is their a point or a question in that post somewhere or just a rambling rant?

Rambling rant as he doesn't have a foot to stand on
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 01:55:04 PM
Playing dumb won't help you. It coasted then re lit it's engins. Wow thst was hard.
And the hypersonic grid fins flapped here and there at the top of the rocket and directed it towards the Landing Zone 1 at 1 000 m/s speed, where a rocket engine ignited and in 20 seconds stopped the rocket which touched down on ground a 0 speed. Hole in one! Sounds like Tiger Woods explaining his fucking with twenty nanas just lying around.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 26, 2015, 02:01:24 PM
Any calculation to support your statement? Since your posts and website is full of scientific content what's more scientific  than math and physics?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 26, 2015, 02:08:24 PM
Any doubters are more than welcome to travel to Cape Canaveral in January and witness the launch and land firsthand. This will now be a regular event.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 26, 2015, 02:36:04 PM

Another amazing view of the launch close up with a good shot of the landing. Notice how far away they are watching the landing from. Guna be hard to keep that up from now on if it's all fake.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 26, 2015, 04:47:01 PM
Any doubters are more than welcome to travel to Cape Canaveral in January and witness the launch

And that proves anything?? Launching a rocket is not the problem; rockets work inside the atmosphere.

Quote
and land firsthand. This will now be a regular event.

Landing? :D :D

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on December 26, 2015, 09:39:11 PM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 26, 2015, 11:35:58 PM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?

Witnessed by thousands? It was pitch dark and nobody was allowed close to the Landing Zone 1. And the fireball dropping down was much too slow. It looked like a bunny in a hat. Typical Elon.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 27, 2015, 12:42:27 AM
Have u got a problem with math? Why every time u're asked to provide an equation or some calculations to support your claims u always ignore the request?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 01:15:56 AM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?

Witnessed by thousands? It was pitch dark and nobody was allowed close to the Landing Zone 1. And the fireball dropping down was much too slow. It looked like a bunny in a hat. Typical Elon.
what would you say created the flow?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 02:49:24 AM
Have u got a problem with math? Why every time u're asked to provide an equation or some calculations to support your claims u always ignore the request?
No, if you study my web page about the Falcon 9 first stage return (topic) and how things drop due to gravity - variable speeds, times used and distances travelled - the math is simple and the formulas are well known and need no explanations.

The Falcon 9 first stage return was just an Elon Musk show. According my calculations - you find them on my web page - the rocket (mass unknown or nominal) must have returned at >3 times the speed of sound at 11 560 m altitude before touch down at 0 m/s speed 21 seconds later. Hard rocket braking at >5g!  Sorry - not possible.

The whole thing, Elon, rocket, hypersonic grid fins, etc, are 100% fake. Imagine Elon is paid $2.6B by NASA to do these stunts. One of the biggest swindles 2015!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 02:52:28 AM
Why can't grid fins work?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 27, 2015, 02:56:21 AM
Why a 5g deceleration is not possible?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 03:18:18 AM
Why can't grid fins work?
As I explain on my web site: seagoing ships have rudders that work in water. A grid fin needs a medium to work in, which doesn't exist in space.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 03:20:09 AM
They are not used on space they are ised in the atmosphere. Try again
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 03:26:33 AM
Why a 5g deceleration is not possible?

The SpaceX Merlin rocket engine + steering/computer system cannot do the suggested manoeuvre during the 21 seconds and 11 500 m distance available. You cannot pocket park a 50 m space ship coming in for landing at 1100 m/s in such a short time/distance. It is all fantasy.

Actually Elon invents everything himself. There is noone to tell him he is all wrong all the time. Media loves it. Imagine being paid $2.6B to fool the Americans. Hilarious. Great fun. I love it. People getting upset wetting/dirtying their pants when I tell them that they are fooled. Cognitive dissonance as its worst. 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 03:31:40 AM
They are not used on space they are ised in the atmosphere. Try again

You really have to study the SpaceX web page. The hypersonic grid fins are deployed at 200 000 m altitude to assist during the 300 seconds free fall + some slow down burns return from space. There is no air at 200 000 m altitude. Or 20 000 m altitude. The grid fins are 100% useless up there. And the grid fins are 95% holes anyway. Please, give me a break. A fin that is 95% holes!
Just a brainless twirp can come up with such a stupid invention.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 03:33:19 AM
The fins and not deployed until at a much lower altitude. All controls until then are undertake using rcs controle systems. I think you need to go back and check again when the fins are deployed.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 03:57:21 AM
Nice little info graphic showing the launch and recovery of the 1st stade.
http://i.imgur.com/1sEH9j9.png (http://i.imgur.com/1sEH9j9.png)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 27, 2015, 04:01:34 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 04:03:00 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

He is saying 200,000m

Edit my mistake I see he also said 20 000m
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 27, 2015, 04:10:50 AM
There is no air at 200 000 m altitude. Or 20 000 m altitude.
The US standard atmosphere disagrees. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html)

Grid fins were also developed by Sergey Belotserkovskiy, were used in Soviet supersonic and subsonic missiles, and were considered in Yuri Gagarin's thesis, the MOAB bomb, and they are used in the Soyuz escape system. So I guess its all a communist grid conspiracy.
(http://)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 04:36:09 AM
There is no air at 200 000 m altitude. Or 20 000 m altitude.
The US standard atmosphere disagrees. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html)

Grid fins were also developed by Sergey Belotserkovskiy, were used in Soviet supersonic and subsonic missiles, and were considered in Yuri Gagarin's thesis, the MOAB bomb, and they are used in the Soyuz escape system. So I guess its all a communist grid conspiracy.
(http://)

I think you are right. Imagine Elon just copying/pasting old commie rubbish.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 04:37:45 AM
Nice little info graphic showing the launch and recovery of the 1st stade.
http://i.imgur.com/1sEH9j9.png (http://i.imgur.com/1sEH9j9.png)

Hm, satellites deployed at 80 000 m altitude!?!? What a lousy graphic.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 04:40:23 AM
Not sure where it says what altitude the sat is released on the infographic
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 04:43:26 AM
I wanted to keep it simple for you. Hear is a slightly more detailed info graphic. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 04:47:26 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Yes, yes, yes. Plenty of air at 20 000 m altitude, blah, blah. But you wouldn't survive up there without a breathing apparatus.

Now, imagine you drop down from there at 20 000 m altitude at 1 000 m/s supersonic speed. How long will it take you to touch ground? Yes - only 20 seconds.

Aha, a shock wave is created in front of the holes of the grid fin.

You sure?

Really sure?

You remind me of the fisherman using a fish net as a parachute, when he did his first (and last) parachute jump. He apparently thought that the net would catch the air (like fishes) and land him safely. Without a safety net.

Someone should tell Elon that he is just a ... 0. Like the hole in his hypersonic grid fin.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 04:49:39 AM
All you are saying is you don't think it world their for it dosent. Where is your evidence? Calculations?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 04:52:19 AM
I wanted to keep it simple for you. Hear is a slightly more detailed info graphic. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A)

No, the launch pad is only 1000 m from the Landing Zone so you have to somersault back something like;

(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)

to reach the 200 000 m altitude to drop down from.

Please, do not spam the thread with your nonsense sketches.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 04:54:52 AM
All you are saying is you don't think it world their for it dosent. Where is your evidence? Calculations?

Sorry, I do not understand what you try to communicate. Are you drunk again or have you just beaten your husband ... again?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 04:56:10 AM
Well no actually it looks like this if you want to be more
 adsact https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon.9+landing+profile&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=615&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB5YH9ivzJAhWEXRoKHZm3CusQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=2R6Hj2rThB6xXM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon.9+landing+profile&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=615&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB5YH9ivzJAhWEXRoKHZm3CusQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=2R6Hj2rThB6xXM%3A)

And the landing site is about 6km away not 1km.

Where are your calculations to show it isn't possible?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on December 27, 2015, 05:00:25 AM
You really need to stop debating with twats like Heiwa and Papa Legba - just put them on ignore.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 27, 2015, 05:08:36 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Yes, yes, yes. Plenty of air at 20 000 m altitude, blah, blah. But you wouldn't survive up there without a breathing apparatus.

Now, imagine you drop down from there at 20 000 m altitude at 1 000 m/s supersonic speed. How long will it take you to touch ground? Yes - only 20 seconds.

Aha, a shock wave is created in front of the holes of the grid fin.

You sure?

Really sure?

You remind me of the fisherman using a fish net as a parachute, when he did his first (and last) parachute jump. He apparently thought that the net would catch the air (like fishes) and land him safely. Without a safety net.

Someone should tell Elon that he is just a ... 0. Like the hole in his hypersonic grid fin.

yes, absolutely sure.... u don't know anything of supersonic fluid dynamics, do u?
once reached sonic speed a shockwave is created in front of every body, even if they have an opening.
in order to desing  supersonic air intakes u have to take into account the shockwave cause they mess up all the flow.
so yes, i'm sure that a shockwave will create in front of a surface with holes, and i'm sure it will increase drag.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 05:29:25 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Yes, yes, yes. Plenty of air at 20 000 m altitude, blah, blah. But you wouldn't survive up there without a breathing apparatus.

Now, imagine you drop down from there at 20 000 m altitude at 1 000 m/s supersonic speed. How long will it take you to touch ground? Yes - only 20 seconds.

Aha, a shock wave is created in front of the holes of the grid fin.

You sure?

Really sure?

You remind me of the fisherman using a fish net as a parachute, when he did his first (and last) parachute jump. He apparently thought that the net would catch the air (like fishes) and land him safely. Without a safety net.

Someone should tell Elon that he is just a ... 0. Like the hole in his hypersonic grid fin.

yes, absolutely sure.... u don't know anything of supersonic fluid dynamics, do u?
once reached sonic speed a shockwave is created in front of every body, even if they have an opening.
in order to desing  supersonic air intakes u have to take into account the shockwave cause they mess up all the flow.
so yes, i'm sure that a shockwave will create in front of a surface with holes, and i'm sure it will increase drag.

Supersonic fluid dynamics. In what medium? Air? At what pressure and density? Pls clarify.

45 years ago I was involved with seagoing ship propellers operating in water design ... or the propellers created low pressure/vacuum in the water while working that caused cavitation. Very nasty stuff. How to design to prevent it? Vacuum holes in the water that closed themselves at supersonic speed ... in water!!!

The SpaceX Falcon9 grid fin looks like a grid placed outside homes, where you could wipe off the dog shit below your shoes. What do you think?

Anyway, when the Falcon9 came dropping down over Florida no sonic booms were heard just prior touch down. How do you explain that?

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 05:33:57 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Yes, yes, yes. Plenty of air at 20 000 m altitude, blah, blah. But you wouldn't survive up there without a breathing apparatus.

Now, imagine you drop down from there at 20 000 m altitude at 1 000 m/s supersonic speed. How long will it take you to touch ground? Yes - only 20 seconds.

Aha, a shock wave is created in front of the holes of the grid fin.

You sure?

Really sure?

You remind me of the fisherman using a fish net as a parachute, when he did his first (and last) parachute jump. He apparently thought that the net would catch the air (like fishes) and land him safely. Without a safety net.

Someone should tell Elon that he is just a ... 0. Like the hole in his hypersonic grid fin.

yes, absolutely sure.... u don't know anything of supersonic fluid dynamics, do u?
once reached sonic speed a shockwave is created in front of every body, even if they have an opening.
in order to desing  supersonic air intakes u have to take into account the shockwave cause they mess up all the flow.
so yes, i'm sure that a shockwave will create in front of a surface with holes, and i'm sure it will increase drag.

Supersonic fluid dynamics. In what medium? Air? At what pressure and density? Pls clarify.

45 years ago I was involved with seagoing ship propellers operating in water design ... or the propellers created low pressure/vacuum in the water while working that caused cavitation. Very nasty stuff. How to design to prevent it? Vacuum holes in the water that closed themselves at supersonic speed ... in water!!!

The SpaceX Falcon9 grid fin looks like a grid placed outside homes, where you could wipe off the dog shit below your shoes. What do you think?

Anyway, when the Falcon9 came dropping down over Florida no sonic booms were heard just prior touch down. How do you explain that?
  there  was a sonic boom and it can be heard in all the fottage. I think you need to improve your research a bit.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 05:39:31 AM
again, at 20000 m plenty of air to operate a jet engines and to make an airplane fly so plenty of air for the fins to operate.
they are full of hole cause they operate at supersonic speed, therefore in front of the holes a shockwave is created, and u can produce a lot of drag even with a surface full of holes.

Yes, yes, yes. Plenty of air at 20 000 m altitude, blah, blah. But you wouldn't survive up there without a breathing apparatus.

Now, imagine you drop down from there at 20 000 m altitude at 1 000 m/s supersonic speed. How long will it take you to touch ground? Yes - only 20 seconds.

Aha, a shock wave is created in front of the holes of the grid fin.

You sure?

Really sure?

You remind me of the fisherman using a fish net as a parachute, when he did his first (and last) parachute jump. He apparently thought that the net would catch the air (like fishes) and land him safely. Without a safety net.

Someone should tell Elon that he is just a ... 0. Like the hole in his hypersonic grid fin.

yes, absolutely sure.... u don't know anything of supersonic fluid dynamics, do u?
once reached sonic speed a shockwave is created in front of every body, even if they have an opening.
in order to desing  supersonic air intakes u have to take into account the shockwave cause they mess up all the flow.
so yes, i'm sure that a shockwave will create in front of a surface with holes, and i'm sure it will increase drag.

Supersonic fluid dynamics. In what medium? Air? At what pressure and density? Pls clarify.

45 years ago I was involved with seagoing ship propellers operating in water design ... or the propellers created low pressure/vacuum in the water while working that caused cavitation. Very nasty stuff. How to design to prevent it? Vacuum holes in the water that closed themselves at supersonic speed ... in water!!!

The SpaceX Falcon9 grid fin looks like a grid placed outside homes, where you could wipe off the dog shit below your shoes. What do you think?

Anyway, when the Falcon9 came dropping down over Florida no sonic booms were heard just prior touch down. How do you explain that?
  there  was a sonic boom and it can be heard in all the fottage. I think you need to improve your research a bit.

There was? When? How many seconds before touch down? I never noticed it on all the videos you linked too. Time to sound shop the footage?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 05:45:27 AM
The sonic boom Is heard at different times depending on where the fottage is shot. For a self proclaimed expert you don't know much do you. I heard the sonic boom the night I watched it all. So no it hasn't been post edited as you are trying to imply. You just are not very observant.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 27, 2015, 05:46:07 AM
I wanted to keep it simple for you. Hear is a slightly more detailed info graphic. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spacex+landing+diagram&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim38yj-fvJAhUGORoKHQtKCI4Q_AUIBygB#imgrc=KbiB_KpPu7a4vM%3A)

No, the launch pad is only 1000 m from the Landing Zone so you have to somersault back something like;

(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)

to reach the 200 000 m altitude to drop down from.

Please, do not spam the thread with your nonsense sketches.
You owe me a new irony meter.  You've broken mine with your above statement and sketch.  Plus, you couldn't even get the date right.

I'm more and more convinced that "Heiwa" is just a bot designed to get traffic to Ander's website.  That explains why he doesn't answer questions and can't do math.  And of course why "he" is always pushing other posters to the website.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 07:27:06 AM
The sonic boom Is heard at different times depending on where the fottage is shot. For a self proclaimed expert you don't know much do you. I heard the sonic boom the night I watched it all. So no it hasn't been post edited as you are trying to imply. You just are not very observant.

Hm, so what causes the sonic boom when the rocket approaches the atmosphere getting thicker all the time? The flat bottom of the rocket with 9 engines + combustion chambers sticking out? Or the four hypersonic grid fins with holes deployed at the top as flaps? And at what speed, altitude, air density does it take place?
IMO the flimsy grid fin should be ripped off at Mach 3 speed and air density at 10 000 m altitude.

Supersonic planes/rockets have sharp or rounded noses which create a sonic boom at 330 m/s speed and increasing at low altitude and high density air.

If the sonic boom occurs at 330 m/s speed of the Falcon 9 landing, it should have occurred about 6-7 seconds prior touch down during a full landing burn, exhaust of which is ejected at much higher velocity at the bottom of the rocket.
What does the expert have to say?

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
Well they are all questions you will need to find answers to be for you can call it fake. Again, you thinking it's not possible does not make it not possible. Do some research
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 27, 2015, 12:24:02 PM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?

Oh, you can find "thousands" who "saw" "planes" "morphing into" the WTC towers. There are "thousands" who claim to have been "abducted by aliens", "thousands" who claim to have been targeted by "terrorists" and equally "thousands" who claim the Earth is a flat dish.

What does that prove? That there are "thousands" of compulsive liars in the world.

Physics simply refutes all this bullcrap. There's no escape from burning up to dust. Every day thousands of rocks do just that; meteors, a.k.a. falling stars.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 12:28:30 PM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?

Oh, you can find "thousands" who "saw" "planes" "morphing into" the WTC towers. There are "thousands" who claim to have been "abducted by aliens", "thousands" who claim to have been targeted by "terrorists" and equally "thousands" who claim the Earth is a flat dish.

What does that prove? That there are "thousands" of compulsive liars in the world.

Physics simply refutes all this bullcrap. There's no escape from burning up to dust. Every day thousands of rocks do just that; meteors, a.k.a. falling stars.
  what physics say it's not possible? And in regards to the thousands seeing it. You can count that as millions over the years thst have seen rocket launches. Also every space x launch from now on will attempt a recovery. I wonder how many more people thst will meet watch it. Will you go and see for yourself or just sit at home with your fingers over your eyes going la la la it's not real if I don't see it?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 02:08:27 PM
Quote

There's no landing; all objects entering the atmosphere simply burn up to dust. :D
The fact that there was a landing witnessed by thousands and will be more to follow makes it hard to agree with you.

also

based on what do you say this?

Oh, you can find "thousands" who "saw" "planes" "morphing into" the WTC towers. There are "thousands" who claim to have been "abducted by aliens", "thousands" who claim to have been targeted by "terrorists" and equally "thousands" who claim the Earth is a flat dish.

What does that prove? That there are "thousands" of compulsive liars in the world.

Physics simply refutes all this bullcrap. There's no escape from burning up to dust. Every day thousands of rocks do just that; meteors, a.k.a. falling stars.
  what physics say it's not possible? And in regards to the thousands seeing it. You can count that as millions over the years thst have seen rocket launches. Also every space x launch from now on will attempt a recovery. I wonder how many more people thst will meet watch it. Will you go and see for yourself or just sit at home with your fingers over your eyes going la la la it's not real if I don't see it?

Topic is the SpaceX return flight almost a week ago. It is a very funny story. At high hypersonic and low zero speeds up and down. Maybe people watched it but ... nobody heard anything. Listen!

The Falcon 9 rocket created a first sonic boom 1 minute 5 seconds after lift off at 8 000 m altitude, when it accelerated above 340 m/s speed. Nobody heard it.
Then the first and second stages separated and the first stage slowed down to 0 speed at 200 000 m altitude due to some Boost back burns without any sonic boom when slowing down.
Then the first stage dropped down and accelerated above 340 m/s speed again without any sonic boom heard and ... going to fast was slowed down again - an Entry burn - at 130 000 m altitude.
But the rocket speed increased again above 340 m/s speed - no sonic boom heard - and approached ground at hypersonic speed >1 100 m/s. A final Landing burn was required.
 And 20 seconds later the speed was 0! No sonic booms heard. The rocket had landed. Something standing in smoke on ground shown on TV was the landing rocket.
I have never seen anything more ridiculous. How can anyone believe such nonsense?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 02:12:51 PM
Plenty of fottage showes sonic booms. You saying they don't does not mean they didnt
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on December 27, 2015, 02:20:35 PM
Plenty of fottage shoes sonic booms. You saying they don't does not mean they didnt
What the hell is fottage shoes?

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
Every fottage I watch contains a sonic boom.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 02:41:46 PM
Every fottage I watch contains a sonic boom.

Ridiculous. A black screen with a fireball shot from 9 miles. Rubbish.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sokarul on December 27, 2015, 02:43:54 PM
Every fottage I watch contains a sonic boom.

Ridiculous...Rubbish.
Like your claims.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: getrealzommb on December 27, 2015, 02:45:44 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/JjI1aTG.gif?1)

Earth is flat because a flat earther says so!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 27, 2015, 02:46:06 PM
Every fottage I watch contains a sonic boom.

Ridiculous. A black screen with a fireball shot from 9 miles. Rubbish.

Why is it rubbish?  What should we see in your "professional" opinion?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on December 27, 2015, 05:09:11 PM
Plenty of fottage shoes sonic booms. You saying they don't does not mean they didnt
What the hell is fottage shoes?
Oh, come, come!  You expect a Vulcan to have perfect English spelling?  I guess you're spot on in Vulcan!  I think you are like "V'tosh ka'tur"!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 07:40:20 PM
Every fottage I watch contains a sonic boom.
(http://)
Ridiculous. A black screen with a fireball shot from 9 miles. Rubbish.

Why is it rubbish?  What should we see in your "professional" opinion?

The video maker is watching a launch and 'recovery' from 10 miles away in pitch dark and we only see a fireball - the exhaust. A certain time after launch a fireball is seen slowly approaching ground and it is suggested it was the rocket landing again.

SpaceX on the other hand was filming the 'landing' close-up. Suddenly a rocket is appearing from nowhere and ... standing on the ground. If it was the same rocket that was sent up remains to be verified.

Why am I not convinced? The alleged trajectory of the rocket (first stage) is impossible in the given time. The rocket is flying away from the launch pad at hypersonic speed, is turned back (how? _ boost back LOL) and slowed down to zero speed, then drops down, reaches hypersonic speed again but is slowed down (entry burn), reaches hypersonic speed another time and is finally slowed down from >1000 m/S hypersonic speed to 0 in less than 20 seconds (landing burn) and ... lands. Hole in one. Steering by hypersonic grid fins full of holes. A joke. Magic! I explain more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 27, 2015, 07:46:42 PM
Hey look!  The Heiwa bot needs more ad revenue!  Make sure you go to the site.  God knows he won't post any details here.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 07:58:20 PM
Hey look!  The Heiwa bot needs more ad revenue!  Make sure you go to the site.  God knows he won't post any details here.

Hm, no ads on my web site and very few visitors from FE forum studying my funny space travel site. But >1500 visitors from Estonia during the weekend studying a more serious page - in Estonian. It seems somebody in Estonia linked to me.

But frenat - do you really believe that a 20 tons rocket dropping down from the sky at >1100 m/s speed - three times the speed of sound - can stop in 20 seconds and land on ground? Intact? Steered by some fins with holes in them?

It was a funny show, though. The girl was cute and excited, the boys didn't really look professional and the 'old' engineer didn't look like an engineer. I link to the show on my web site. If you haven't seen it, see it!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 27, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
But frenat - do you really believe that a 20 tons rocket dropping down from the sky at >1100 m/s speed - three times the speed of sound - can stop in 20 seconds and land on ground? Intact? Steered by some fins with holes in them?
Do you think that 5.5g of deceleration is unreasonable for a nearly empty rocket?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 27, 2015, 11:39:25 PM
But frenat - do you really believe that a 20 tons rocket dropping down from the sky at >1100 m/s speed - three times the speed of sound - can stop in 20 seconds and land on ground? Intact? Steered by some fins with holes in them?
Do you think that 5.5g of deceleration is unreasonable for a nearly empty rocket?

Yes. Pocket parking a big rocket dropping down at hypersonic speed and braking by a landing burn at the last moment is not realistic. You must know the mass of the rocket after all the initial burns, its hypersonic speed and direction, its exact location above ground, etc, and then apply the thrust in exactly the right direction and duration for ... touch down at 0 speed. Not possible.

And steering with the hypersonic grid fins in the very thin air above 20 000 m altitude? It is a joke!

The whole trajectory of the 435 seconds stunt is also impossible. Average speed is >800 m/s but halfway it is almost 0. At the start of the stunt you are a fair distance - 50 kms - away from the landing zone and heading away from it. How to return? Not possible.

But the girl presenting the show was cute. The Russians are using the same trick when they send off their rockets from Bajkonur.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on December 28, 2015, 01:32:17 AM
Plenty of fottage shoes sonic booms. You saying they don't does not mean they didnt
What the hell is fottage shoes?
Oh, come, come!  You expect a Vulcan to have perfect English spelling?  I guess you're spot on in Vulcan!  I think you are like "V'tosh ka'tur"!
You probably believe he is something like that. I bet you're sat there in your star trek suit.
You people live for fantasy and are so naive it's comical and sad at the same time.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 01:42:53 AM
Have you got calculations to show it's imposible or just your misguided opinion once again?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 02:12:31 AM
Have you got calculations to show it's imposible or just your misguided opinion once again?
Are you asking me? Yes, I have the calculations. You know where to look for them.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 02:18:17 AM
And non of those prove it not to be possible. So try again.

You literally just state a load of numbers in random order mixed in with opinion on why you think it's imposible. Not a single equation to show why it's not possible.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 03:06:36 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3yg6mn/reasonably_accurate_simulation_of_the_orbcomm_2/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3yg6mn/reasonably_accurate_simulation_of_the_orbcomm_2/)

Brilliant realistic simulation tying together the audio from the live feed and the telemetry from the craft with a visualisation of its trajectory and orientation during landing.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 03:36:58 AM
And non of those prove it not to be possible. So try again.

You literally just state a load of numbers in random order mixed in with opinion on why you think it's imposible. Not a single equation to show why it's not possible.

You are just jealous. Pls study my article again.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 28, 2015, 03:40:19 AM
Hey look!  The Heiwa bot needs more ad revenue!  Make sure you go to the site.  God knows he won't post any details here.

Hm, no ads on my web site and very few visitors from FE forum studying my funny space travel site. But >1500 visitors from Estonia during the weekend studying a more serious page - in Estonian. It seems somebody in Estonia linked to me.

But frenat - do you really believe that a 20 tons rocket dropping down from the sky at >1100 m/s speed - three times the speed of sound - can stop in 20 seconds and land on ground? Intact? Steered by some fins with holes in them?

It was a funny show, though. The girl was cute and excited, the boys didn't really look professional and the 'old' engineer didn't look like an engineer. I link to the show on my web site. If you haven't seen it, see it!
I really believe YOU and your page are ignorant.  All of your pages are full of arguments from incredulity and little actual math.  I really believe that you have been caught multiple times changing your challenge pages to avoid awarding the money you don't have to those that have met your requirements.  I really believe that you are incapable of actually arguing your point here so you constantly push/spam your own site.  You and your site are a joke.  At least you provided some humor to some Estonian surfers.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 03:43:55 AM
I can assure you with a reputation such as yours I have nothing to be jealous of. And again no. Where are your equations showing how much fuel is required to complete the landing what about the friction the craft encounters while falling through the atmosphere. Where are your structural calculations showing as you say how flimsy the grid fins are?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 05:58:25 AM
I can assure you with a reputation such as yours I have nothing to be jealous of. And again no. Where are your equations showing how much fuel is required to complete the landing what about the friction the craft encounters while falling through the atmosphere. Where are your structural calculations showing as you say how flimsy the grid fins are?

My reputation is very good and I have nothing to hide. I use my own name at my website and name/photo at FE forum and anyone can contact me about any errors, etc., if any.  I do not hide behind a stupid pseudonym allowing me to insult people.

All my calculations are shown in my papers. Equations used are the basic ones.

And the result is always the same: You cannot carry the fuel/energy with you to land any space ship anywhere after departure Earth.

You get too heavy. You do not get off the ground. Or you crash on arrival. You cannot carry the fuel/energy with you to brake or slow down. Thus you have to fake it.  Yuri Gagarin and his commie friends started it. And now Elon Musk is collecting billions from US tax payers to carry on the hoax.

Don't blame me! I just play the music and laugh. 95+% of the Americans suffer from cognitive dissonance. They cannot accept that they are mentally sick and brainwashed with silly info.


Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 06:39:11 AM
I can assure you your reputation is not a good one.

Then post your equations for us to see. It shouldn't be that hard should it? Your refusal to continue to show any equations or evidence is suspect to say the least.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 07:02:44 AM
I can assure you your reputation is not a good one.

Then post your equations for us to see. It shouldn't be that hard should it? Your refusal to continue to show any equations or evidence is suspect to say the least.

You can? But I don't know you, so I do not consider you serious.

The equations are at my web site. Cannot copy/paste all of it every time.

Anyway, topic is SpaceX's return flight that I consider 100% fake for reasons given here and at my site. Try to focus on topic instead of other things? I am a nice, reputable person but it is not the topic here.

Imagine a spaceship first stage, after having delievered its second stage, flips over to a horizontal position, while continuing upwards, then fires its rocket engines to stop the horizontal displacement in one direction to bring it back above the launch pad in the other direction to stop there and then flipping 90° dropping with the bottom towards the ground 200 000 m below.

If it drops freefall it will hit ground at a very high hypersonic speed within minutes. But the owners say they can fire the rocket engines to stop the fall. Only problem is that there is no fuel to do it. Basic. It is almost an axiom. You cannot bring the energy with you to stop a fall in a gravity field.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 07:06:51 AM
Show us the equation that shows their will be no fuel left to slow down for landing. Just one equation. It's not on your "popular" (lol) website iv looked.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 08:56:50 AM
Show us the equation that shows their will be no fuel left to slow down for landing. Just one equation. It's not on your "popular" (lol) website iv looked.

It is very simple. An energy balance. We know, e.g. the kinetic energy of the first stage when it approaches the landing stage for a touch down at 0 speed. In order to stop the first stage moving at high speed, you must apply a force during a certain time in the opposite direction and the only way to do it is fireing the rocket engine. It requires fuel/energy but all calculations show that the fuel/energy available cannot do the job. The first stage crashes.

All space travel is the same. It is very easy to accelerate a space ship to high speeds at high altitudes BUT you can never brake, stop and land. It is all explained at my popular website with >1000 visitors today (mainly looking at another page about the M/S Estonia - a seagoing ship - sinking 1994). Imagine that 1000+ people are reading about a 21 years old accident at sea at my web site. But maybe 100 study my space travel web site. All seem happy! It doesn't cost anything and I provide valid information.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
If its very simple then show your equations then?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 09:48:34 AM


In the meantime a brilliant shot of the engin gimbaling like made seconds before touchdown.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 10:18:38 AM
If its very simple then show your equations then?
There is no equation or equations. There is an energy balance described at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) .
You need fuel/energy to fly around in space and if you haven't, you'll not arrive home.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 28, 2015, 10:25:06 AM
So you can't show us? Thought so. Just you saying it's not possible with not an ounce of evidence to prove it. That's all you had to say.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 28, 2015, 12:26:08 PM
But frenat - do you really believe that a 20 tons rocket dropping down from the sky at >1100 m/s speed - three times the speed of sound - can stop in 20 seconds and land on ground? Intact? Steered by some fins with holes in them?
Do you think that 5.5g of deceleration is unreasonable for a nearly empty rocket?

Yes. Pocket parking a big rocket dropping down at hypersonic speed and braking by a landing burn at the last moment is not realistic.
Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. -- Arthur C. Clarke

You must know the mass of the rocket after all the initial burns, its hypersonic speed and direction, its exact location above ground, etc, and then apply the thrust in exactly the right direction and duration for ... touch down at 0 speed. Not possible.
Why not?  As a shareholder in Ariane, you must have some idea of how meticulously every aspect of a flight is calculated, planned, simulated, analyzed, simulated again and analyzed again.  What makes you think that SpaceX is any less meticulous in their preparations, especially for such high profile technology?

BTW, touch down speed was at about 2 m/s, not zero.

And steering with the hypersonic grid fins in the very thin air above 20 000 m altitude? It is a joke!
Why?  The Russians and Americans use grid fins on several weapons systems for years.  Besides, the grid fins were added on the 5th return test flight to add a finer degree of control in steering the booster during and after reentry.

The whole trajectory of the 435 seconds stunt is also impossible. Average speed is >800 m/s but halfway it is almost 0. At the start of the stunt you are a fair distance - 50 kms - away from the landing zone and heading away from it. How to return? Not possible.
That was the purpose of the several burns after second stage separation.

But the girl presenting the show was cute. The Russians are using the same trick when they send off their rockets from Bajkonur.
What tricks does Ariane use when they send off their rockets from French Guiana?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 28, 2015, 10:35:34 PM


The whole trajectory of the 435 seconds stunt is also impossible. Average speed is >800 m/s but halfway it is almost 0. At the start of the stunt you are a fair distance - 50 kms - away from the landing zone and heading away from it. How to return? Not possible.
That was the purpose of the several burns after second stage separation.

Before Elon tried the barge hoax - the rocket first stage continued after separation out to sea to land on a little barge floating there that nobody could watch. On a video we could see how it failed; rocket slipping on the deck and then EXPLODING producing smoke. All fake CGI. Never happened. The fakers  like FIREBALLS and smoke. It impresses the viewers.

Now Elon tried the night landing hoax - the rocket first stage flipped 180° horizontally and carried out a Boost back burn to fly back (!) over land again where it had started and stop there at high altitude and then to drop straight down, more burns, for a touch down at 2 m/s speed in the middle of the night. Just shown on a fake video as usual.

Simple calculations show that you cannot carry the fuel to do these burns. Actually the first Boost back burn - stopping movement in one direction out to sea, move back in the other direction and stop above land again is impossible as it requires plenty fuel that you cannot carry with you.

Reason for the hoaxes is to allow SpaceX to collect money for trips to the International Space Station - another hoax. The ISS does not exist!

But it is fun to watch. I like the cute girls getting excited about it.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 29, 2015, 12:41:55 AM
What do we see inthe sky that claims to be the ISS and what about people returning from it?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 01:17:20 AM
So space x are making the launches cheeper so they can make more money? ??? How does that work then ?

And no you have shown us no calculations.  Maby you should. Yes?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: ergovivo on December 29, 2015, 02:34:55 AM
You can carry the fuel to go any distance, the amount just increases exponentially.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 05:19:58 AM
Heiwa what is you opinions on the blue origin reusable rocket? Is thst fake?
What about your favourite company Ariane with their adeline reusable stage? Will that be fake to?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 29, 2015, 05:32:48 AM
Simple calculations show that you cannot carry the fuel to do these burns. Actually the first Boost back burn - stopping movement in one direction out to sea, move back in the other direction and stop above land again is impossible as it requires plenty fuel that you cannot carry with you.
Would you care to show your "simple calculations", because, from what I've heard, SpaceX is incurring about a 30% payload penalty for saving enough fuel to land the booster.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 05:51:15 AM
Simple calculations show that you cannot carry the fuel to do these burns. Actually the first Boost back burn - stopping movement in one direction out to sea, move back in the other direction and stop above land again is impossible as it requires plenty fuel that you cannot carry with you.
Would you care to show your "simple calculations", because, from what I've heard, SpaceX is incurring about a 30% payload penalty for saving enough fuel to land the booster.

My "simple calculations" are presented at my webpage http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) , free of charge, no ads, just fun. And a cute girl!!!!!!

A real payload penalty should be 1 000% because you need plenty fuel/energy to land the booster (or first stage) and then there is no energy left to go further.

Actually, no 50 tons rocket can be sent up to 200 000 m altitude and then return intact by braking during the free fall return down. Just study basic physics and dynamics and you'll understand.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 06:07:21 AM
But the girl presenting the show was cute. The Russians are using the same trick when they send off their rockets from Bajkonur.
What tricks does Ariane use when they send off their rockets from French Guiana?
No tricks. They/we (me being a share holder) just send a 1-3 ton payload into orbit. Easy. Using a one stage, very simple, two engines rocket.

Nothing like SpaceX that sends 56-58 tons payload up using two stages of which 55 tons is fuel burnt to recover the first stage with nine engines. Complete madness. BUT it is logical. NASA has faked space travel since 1962 and is running out of steam. NASA needs new useful idiots to take over. Elon is #1. Great fun. I wonder how long it will last.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 06:09:33 AM
So its okey for Ariane to have a reusable stage but not space x?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 06:12:06 AM
So its okey for Ariane to have a reusable stage but not space x?
Only useful idiots ask such questions.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 06:14:45 AM
Only people on the wrong side of the argument constantly dodge questions and refuse to provide evidence, in your case equations.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 29, 2015, 06:27:45 AM
Simple calculations show that you cannot carry the fuel to do these burns. Actually the first Boost back burn - stopping movement in one direction out to sea, move back in the other direction and stop above land again is impossible as it requires plenty fuel that you cannot carry with you.
Would you care to show your "simple calculations", because, from what I've heard, SpaceX is incurring about a 30% payload penalty for saving enough fuel to land the booster.

My "simple calculations" are presented at my webpage http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) , free of charge, no ads, just fun. And a cute girl!!!!!!
Then you shouldn't have any trouble providing the relevant quote from your site.

A real payload penalty should be 1 000% because you need plenty fuel/energy to land the booster (or first stage) and then there is no energy left to go further.
You do realize that most of the fuel was used on the way up, so you wind up trying to land significantly less mass than you launch.  Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Actually, no 50 tons rocket can be sent up to 200 000 m altitude and then return intact by braking during the free fall return down. Just study basic physics and dynamics and you'll understand.
Evidently you're the one who needs to study the relevant physics and dynamics because atmospheric reenty has been a reality for many years.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 06:38:56 AM

You do realize that most of the fuel was used on the way up, so you wind up trying to land significantly less mass than you launch.  Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.


Yes, you need plenty fuel/energy/mass to get off the ground - most of it is lost on the way up - and atmospheric drag is of course a problem. Apart from gravity. But atmospheric drag - and gravity -  is not a good thing on the way down. I explain all at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . What goes up will come down. But not land intact at 0 m/s speed.

Suggest you focus on topic and do not troll this thread with off topic stupid comments.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 06:58:07 AM
But presumably you belive Ariane can build a reusable stage?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 29, 2015, 07:09:47 AM
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 07:12:14 AM
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 29, 2015, 07:22:07 AM
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?

Irrelevant; the faster the object goes, the higher the frictional force, but also the shorter the time exposed to that force.

"Slower" objects experience less frictional force per time unit, but that's compensated by a longer exposure time.

Any shpayze dinky toy should "land" completely burnt and encrusted with molten metal, yet in the happy-peppy footage we always see brand clean thingies.

Thus they can never have re-entered atmosphere and experienced 9.8 m/s2 for minutes. It's so stupidly fake that it's hilarious to see you defending those clowns. :D :D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 07:28:16 AM
You think speed is irrelivant? And you are lecturing me on what can and can't be done?
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?

Irrelevant; the faster the object goes, the higher the frictional force, but also the shorter the time exposed to that force.

"Slower" objects experience less frictional force per time unit, but that's compensated by a longer exposure time.

Any shpayze dinky toy should "land" completely burnt and encrusted with molten metal, yet in the happy-peppy footage we always see brand clean thingies.

Thus they can never have re-entered atmosphere and experienced 9.8 m/s2 for minutes. It's so stupidly fake that it's hilarious to see you defending those clowns. :D :D

So if you think thst it's just exposure time that matters then I guess an object going at 10 mph would be burnt to a crisp because it's exposed to re entry for even longer.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 29, 2015, 07:39:16 AM
You think speed is irrelivant? And you are lecturing me on what can and can't be done?
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?

Irrelevant; the faster the object goes, the higher the frictional force, but also the shorter the time exposed to that force.

"Slower" objects experience less frictional force per time unit, but that's compensated by a longer exposure time.

Any shpayze dinky toy should "land" completely burnt and encrusted with molten metal, yet in the happy-peppy footage we always see brand clean thingies.

Thus they can never have re-entered atmosphere and experienced 9.8 m/s2 for minutes. It's so stupidly fake that it's hilarious to see you defending those clowns. :D :D

So if you think thst it's just exposure time that matters then I guess an object going at 10 mph would be burnt to a crisp because it's exposed to re entry for even longer.

You present v=constant, which is impossible with a=9.8 m/s2.

Everything burns up, indeed. The ridiculous footage of floating "re-entered" shpayze thingies without a single scratch or crispy crust shows you how fake it all is.

But just keep defending silly stories and clownesque craziness; you making a fool of yourself is very funny. :D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 07:47:20 AM
It's surface is covered in soot for starters. And as for falling at 9.8m/s2 did it ever occur to you that the engins were used to slow it down as did friction with the atmosphere? What was the maximum speed the stage reached during re entry?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sokarul on December 29, 2015, 08:43:28 AM
You think speed is irrelivant? And you are lecturing me on what can and can't be done?
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?

Irrelevant; the faster the object goes, the higher the frictional force, but also the shorter the time exposed to that force.

"Slower" objects experience less frictional force per time unit, but that's compensated by a longer exposure time.

Any shpayze dinky toy should "land" completely burnt and encrusted with molten metal, yet in the happy-peppy footage we always see brand clean thingies.

Thus they can never have re-entered atmosphere and experienced 9.8 m/s2 for minutes. It's so stupidly fake that it's hilarious to see you defending those clowns. :D :D




So if you think thst it's just exposure time that matters then I guess an object going at 10 mph would be burnt to a crisp because it's exposed to re entry for even longer.

You present v=constant, which is impossible with a=9.8 m/s2.

Everything burns up, indeed. The ridiculous footage of floating "re-entered" shpayze thingies without a single scratch or crispy crust shows you how fake it all is.

But just keep defending silly stories and clownesque craziness; you making a fool of yourself is very funny. :D

Terminal velocity says objects can stop accelerating while falling in atmosphere.

Fixed quote.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 29, 2015, 09:28:07 AM
You think speed is irrelivant? And you are lecturing me on what can and can't be done?
Not to mention the fact that atmospheric drag, which is a bad thing on the way up, actually becomes a good thing on the way down.

Oh yeah? "Atmospheric drag becomes a good thing"?? :D :D

Ask the various meteors made of hard rock and burning up to dust for BILLIONS of years already that...

Nothing survives the atmospheric friction (drag), only fantasy farytale fictional shpayze dinkies that Elon Musk, NASA, ESA and all the other clowns claim to send up and let re-enter the atmosphere...

And how fast are they going compared to space x?

Irrelevant; the faster the object goes, the higher the frictional force, but also the shorter the time exposed to that force.

"Slower" objects experience less frictional force per time unit, but that's compensated by a longer exposure time.

Any shpayze dinky toy should "land" completely burnt and encrusted with molten metal, yet in the happy-peppy footage we always see brand clean thingies.

Thus they can never have re-entered atmosphere and experienced 9.8 m/s2 for minutes. It's so stupidly fake that it's hilarious to see you defending those clowns. :D :D

So if you think thst it's just exposure time that matters then I guess an object going at 10 mph would be burnt to a crisp because it's exposed to re entry for even longer.

You present v=constant, which is impossible with a=9.8 m/s2.

Everything burns up, indeed. The ridiculous footage of floating "re-entered" shpayze thingies without a single scratch or crispy crust shows you how fake it all is.

But just keep defending silly stories and clownesque craziness; you making a fool of yourself is very funny. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 10:43:57 AM
Hm, topic is SpaceX's return (to) flight and (first) landing success.

It should be recalled that the SpaceX rocket departed from Florida in direction East over the Atlantic to put some satellites in orbit at 700 000 m altitude at great velocities. Previously SpaceX had tried to recover the first stage by landing it on an old, rusty barge outside Florida but it failed. The first stage then slipped of the rolling and pitching barge and exploded in a FIREBALL before sinking into the sea.

So this time we were told that the rocket first stage actually managed to stop its eastward flight at 1700 m/s speed above the Atlantic after delivering the second stage and then flow back (!) westward to Florida at unknown speed, where it stopped (!) again at 200 000 m altitude ... where it dropped straight down by gravity to land. No barge!

The first part of the return trip after separation from the second stage, stopping, going back to Florida, stopping again at 200 000 m altitude took about 135 seconds using the rocket engines aboard - Boost back burns.

The vertical free fall took 300 seconds and were slowed down by Entry and Landing burns. So instead of crashing at > 1000 m/s speed the first stage landed intact at 2 m/s speed on land. Not on a slippery barge.

Simple calculations show that you cannot stop a rocket going one way to go back again and then drop down from 200 000 m altitude and land using rocket engines aboard. There is not enough fuel aboard. So it seems Elon Musk faked it ... again.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 10:46:07 AM
Once again show us your simple calculations. And no, they are not on your "popular" website.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 11:15:39 AM
Once again show us your simple calculations. And no, they are not on your "popular" website.
Calculations? According SpaceX the rocket first stage stopped over the Atlantic and flow back to Florida, where it dropped back from 200 000 m altitude and landed - using its own rocket engines. Just watch the SpaceX webcast show. The whole trip from lift off, separation of second stage, stopping over the Atlantic, going back to Florida and dropping down to land/touch down took less than 10 minutes, i.e. lift off to separation took 150 seconds, stopping and going back to Florida took 135 seconds and dropping straight down to Florida and touch down took 300 seconds.
An analysis of the fuel consumption of the trip is on my website. The result is that the rocket first stage would have run out of fuel early and crashed. Only twirps believe you can send up a rocket in space and then bring it back and land.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 29, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 06:08:27 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 29, 2015, 06:50:51 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 07:03:55 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
I know. All 100% fake of course. There is no business as the space show business.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 29, 2015, 07:34:26 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
I know. All 100% fake of course. There is no business as the space show business.
Which you are a shareholder of.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 29, 2015, 10:43:28 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
I know. All 100% fake of course. There is no business as the space show business.
Which you are a shareholder of.
Yes, funny business. SpaceX subsidies its normal, real satellite launches with 100% fake supply capsule launches to the fake International Space Station paid for by NASA. It is a way by USA/NASA to try to kill the competition. I wonder how long it will last. Anyway, satellite launches are just a small part of Airbus NV.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 29, 2015, 11:39:07 PM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
I know. All 100% fake of course. There is no business as the space show business.
Which you are a shareholder of.
Yes, funny business. SpaceX subsidies its normal, real satellite launches with 100% fake supply capsule launches to the fake International Space Station paid for by NASA. It is a way by USA/NASA to try to kill the competition. I wonder how long it will last. Anyway, satellite launches are just a small part of Airbus NV.
What is the object we see in the sky if it not the ISS and where is Tim Peake now?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 12:58:46 AM
You know ariane are developing a reusable rocket don't you? That must any you as a share holder considering how it's all fake.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on December 30, 2015, 01:50:03 AM
Once again. No such calculations exist on you "popular" website.  Can you point me to the relevant section or post it hear?
?? You really have to read all my explanations with calculations at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9 (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#F9) . Imagine that media believe and report that you can fly up to 200 000 m altitude and then land again just because a clown puts a magig show together.
Just as an FYI, the Orbcomm-2 mission was not the first reentry for the Falcon 9R.  It was actually the 8th such reentry.  There were 5 water landing tests and 2 unsuccessful barge landing attempts before the successful landing.
I know. All 100% fake of course. There is no business as the space show business.
Which you are a shareholder of.
I think any statement concerning Heiwa's claims should always be preceded with "apparently".  He is, after all, a well know pathological liar.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 04:06:44 AM
You know ariane are developing a reusable rocket don't you?
No, I didn't. I thought Arianespace just sent satellites one-way up into orbits. No need to fake returns and recoveries of the rocket with no fuel afterwards. It is scrap! Of course, if NASA asks Arianespace to send a capsule up into orbit  that NASA then will dock with the ISS, Arianespace says yes or actually oui (yes in French). As long as you pay. The fake docking with the fake ISS is 100% NASA fakery space show biz.
C'est simple. Arianespace cannot say that its client NASA is criminally cheating the US tax payers as long as it pays the bills making profit for Arianespace. It is just business.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 04:24:10 AM
Well yes they are developing a reusable rocket stage for its future rockets. It's called Adeline. As a share holder you must be outraged? Will you be contacting them to let them know how you feel and directing them to your "popular" website so they can see your equations showing how it's imposible?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 04:54:42 AM
Well yes they are developing a reusable rocket stage for its future rockets. It's called Adeline. As a share holder you must be outraged? Will you be contacting them to let them know how you feel and directing them to your "popular" website so they can see your equations showing how it's imposible?
Well no ... it was just a joke to keep Elon & Co happy. There is no way you can return any rocket to Earth. Basic.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 04:55:52 AM
Well they are developing it so where is the joke? They are wasting money as far as you must be conserved.  Are you not outraged?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 04:58:37 AM
Well they are developing it so where is the joke? They are wasting money as far as you must be conserved.  Are you not outraged?
No. It is a joke. No money wasted. Isn't it fun? I look forward to how it ends.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 05:00:29 AM
How do you know it's a joke? They already have flown prototypes. I'm suprised that as a share holder you aren't aware of all this?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 05:21:26 AM
How do you know it's a joke? They already have flown prototypes. I'm suprised that as a share holder you aren't aware of all this?
As I, as a shareholder understands it, it is the European Space Agency, ESA, that will pay Arianespace to develop some reusable Adeline rocket, blah, blah, to compete with NASA, SpaceX, etc. It is just talk, blah, blah.

ESA is another joke with its Rosetta hoax. It started >20 years ago and Arianespace was fooled to participate sending away a little satellite. I describe it at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#ROS (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#ROS) . Enjoy!

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 05:24:39 AM
What do you mean as you understand it? You didn't know until I just told you. You know nothing of the subject which is why your last post contains no substance just angry waffle.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 05:46:32 AM
What do you mean as you understand it? You didn't know until I just told you. You know nothing of the subject which is why your last post contains no substance just angry waffle.
You are off topic. We discuss the Spacex fake return 21 December show and you start to talk about Arianespace. Standard shill/troll tactic as I understand it. Change the subject. Start talk about something else. Start another thread about Arianespace if you like it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 05:51:10 AM
Not adsactly off topic considering you are saying space x are faking it but a company you support is trying to accomplish the same thing.  You are just saying it's off topic because you have no answer for it
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 30, 2015, 06:20:48 AM
Not adsactly off topic considering you are saying space x are faking it but a company you support is trying to accomplish the same thing.  You are just saying it's off topic because you have no answer for it

You clearly do not differentiate between "shareholder" (forced to pay into with immoral taxation ponzi schemes) and "support". Heiwa (and every other European citizen) is a forced participant (shareholder) of ESA, just like every US citizen is forced to pay to nasty NASA criminals.

That is far from "support".

SpaceX is different; it's a private organization. Elon Musk may have bought some Adobe licenses to play along with the shpayze shills and pretend we can go and come back.

Where the fuel is coming from to allegedly "fire boosters" to prevent the ever-accelerating shpayze craft from crashing on Earth also remains a musky mystery...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 06:29:20 AM
You obviously don't know what a shareholder is. A European citizen is not a shareholder any more than a American is a shareholder of nasa.  They are a tax payer. Heiwa as far as I am aware is a actual shareholder (correct me if I'm wrong)

As for the fuel. It is coming from the 30% payload penalty.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 30, 2015, 06:51:42 AM
You obviously don't know what a shareholder is. A European citizen is not a shareholder any more than a American is a shareholder of nasa.  They are a tax payer. Heiwa as far as I am aware is a actual shareholder (correct me if I'm wrong)

As for the fuel. It is coming from the 30% payload penalty.

A tax payer is a shareholder at gunpoint. An immoral system where millions of bucks are consumed by crooks to keep clunky clowns like yourself amazed and fiercily fairytelling fictional fakery.

Ah, the well-known physical term "payload penalty". 30%. :D :D

Clown.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 30, 2015, 06:53:02 AM
Heiwa, acording to himself, is a shareholder of Airbus, and therefore indirectly of Arianne Aerospace, because he bought shares of Airbus. A tax payer is not a shareholders. Public entities are not anonymous societies, and therefore cant have shares or shareholders.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 07:00:20 AM
You obviously don't know what a shareholder is. A European citizen is not a shareholder any more than a American is a shareholder of nasa.  They are a tax payer. Heiwa as far as I am aware is a actual shareholder (correct me if I'm wrong)

As for the fuel. It is coming from the 30% payload penalty.

A tax payer is a shareholder at gunpoint. An immoral system where millions of bucks are consumed by crooks to keep clunky clowns like yourself amazed and fiercily fairytelling fictional fakery.

Ah, the well-known physical term "payload penalty". 30%. :D :D

Clown.

I gave you an answer you have no rebuttal so you put 2 smiley faces. Wow congratulations
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 30, 2015, 07:05:13 AM
:D

Everybody is a shareholder of the state(s) he/she is forced to pay taxes to.

That those states fuck up but more importantly the majority of the enslaved shareholders just sheepily follow their unchosen masters doesn't make it less shareholder-corporation relation.

On top of that; many people are direct shareholders against their will; pension funds and even state organizations invest in private shares.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 30, 2015, 07:10:46 AM
You obviously don't know what a shareholder is. A European citizen is not a shareholder any more than a American is a shareholder of nasa.  They are a tax payer. Heiwa as far as I am aware is a actual shareholder (correct me if I'm wrong)

As for the fuel. It is coming from the 30% payload penalty.

A tax payer is a shareholder at gunpoint. An immoral system where millions of bucks are consumed by crooks to keep clunky clowns like yourself amazed and fiercily fairytelling fictional fakery.

Ah, the well-known physical term "payload penalty". 30%. :D :D

Clown.
I gave you an answer you have no rebuttal so you put 2 smiley faces. Wow congratulations

You may think you "gave an answer", but in reality you just put 3 terms in a row; 30%, "payload", "penalty".

If you were my student, I'd give you a 1/10 for that "answer"...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 07:26:00 AM
All I can say is that it's a good thing you are not a teacher.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 30, 2015, 07:27:31 AM
Gaia, fyi, air drag is proportipnal to the square of velocity... So when u say that slower Object are exposed for more time and at the end they experience the same friction in reality doesn't make physical sense
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 30, 2015, 07:41:31 AM
All I can say is that it's a good thing you are not a teacher.

That's the difference between trolls and scientists. Science doesn't need ad hominems; it speaks for itself.

My students understand that. I surely hope you will one day too.

And luckyfred; I've never said "the same". Twisting and turning to keep the spacy stories alive.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 07:43:26 AM
Space x speaks for itself. Go watch a landing one day. You might learn something.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on December 30, 2015, 08:23:52 AM
ad hominems
Hope you're not teaching Latin....nor science
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 08:58:37 AM
Space x speaks for itself. Go watch a landing one day. You might learn something.

It is not so easy. A launch is one thing. The rocket flies away and disappears in the sky and is normally never seen again. A rocket landing is completely different and only one (topic) has been performed so far ... in the middle of the dark night ... with any independent observers several miles away. Amateur video photographers only recorded a small fireball in the air ... far away ... slowly coming down. If it were a landing nobody knows.  The trajectory of rocket from launch to landing is unfortunately secret and cannot be verified by outside experts. The US National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 and company privacy rules prevent verifications.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 10:33:12 AM
You mean a small fire ball thst could be seen all over centeral Florida along with multiple sonic booms.  As for the trajectory it's common knowledge. They broadcast it. Lol.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 10:48:33 AM
You mean a small fire ball thst could be seen all over centeral Florida along with multiple sonic booms.  As for the trajectory it's common knowledge. They broadcast it. Lol.

Of course. But the 'broadcast' was just a show and didn't show the trajectory of the first stage. The first stage was heading out over the Atlantic ocean at 1700 m/s speed, when it separated from the second stage, and it is suggested that some Boost back burns stopped the rocket fist stage going East, that the first stage then turned back West and stopped (!) again at 200 000 m altitude above Florida after 135 seconds ... and then dropped down 200 000 m! To stop the drop there were Entry and Landing burns, blah, blah, and after 300 seconds the rocket was back on ground. A nice piece of fakery, to say the least.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 10:53:21 AM
Well done. Once again you roughly describe what they have done and said it's not possible but provided no reason as to why it's not possible. The trajectory of the 1st stage is well known as well. It has been visualised in varying infographic to varying accuracy.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 11:39:58 AM
Well done. Once again you roughly describe what they have done and said it's not possible but provided no reason as to why it's not possible. The trajectory of the 1st stage is well known as well. It has been visualised in varying infographic to varying accuracy.
Thanks. It seems you agree with me.

But who cares. It is just FUN.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pavarotti on December 30, 2015, 11:44:40 AM
Space x speaks for itself. Go watch a landing one day. You might learn something.

It is not so easy. A launch is one thing. The rocket flies away and disappears in the sky and is normally never seen again. A rocket landing is completely different and only one (topic) has been performed so far ... in the middle of the dark night ... with any independent observers several miles away. Amateur video photographers only recorded a small fireball in the air ... far away ... slowly coming down. If it were a landing nobody knows.  The trajectory of rocket from launch to landing is unfortunately secret and cannot be verified by outside experts. The US National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 and company privacy rules prevent verifications.

The Landing from helicopter  (http://)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 11:46:54 AM
Well done. Once again you roughly describe what they have done and said it's not possible but provided no reason as to why it's not possible. The trajectory of the 1st stage is well known as well. It has been visualised in varying infographic to varying accuracy.
Thanks. It seems you agree with me.

But who cares. It is just FUN.

Not really sure how you got that from what i said. But you aren't known for making sense.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 11:48:08 AM
I wonder what you will say next on the 17th when the next landing takes place in the daylight? Or all future landings for thst matter.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 12:02:40 PM
I wonder what you will say next on the 17th when the next landing takes place in the daylight? Or all future landings for thst matter.

The SHOW MUST GO ON. Poor Elon Musk has no choice. And noone will stop him. Not even media! They love him. So it will soon end. In the meantime try to win €1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm (http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm) .
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 12:10:27 PM
It will soon end? Why?  What about when ariane stsrt doing it as well?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pavarotti on December 30, 2015, 12:14:47 PM
Elons Tour of SpaceX (http://)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 12:19:08 PM
It will soon end? Why?
All these stupid things always come to an end. You cannot land rockets on Earth 24/24, 7/7 or 365/365 to keep the sheaple happy. It wants people on the MOON again. Planting strawberries. Or just building a village on the opposite side of the Moon. ACTION.
So it will come to an END.
I am sure.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 12:21:04 PM
So why are other companies like ariane developing their own reusable systems if it's all fake?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 30, 2015, 12:40:50 PM
So why are other companies like ariane developing their own reusable systems if it's all fake?
Arianespace is not. And what other companies are you talking about? AnywayX, this is FUNX. How longX will the SpaceX hoaX lastX? Two yearX? Two monthX? Two weekX?
WeX willX seeXXXXX.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 30, 2015, 12:46:26 PM
Ariane are developing a reusable stage. You saying they are not will not change that. As for the rest hear is the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 04:21:44 AM
Ariane are developing a reusable stage. You saying they are not will not change that. As for the rest hear is the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system
No. Airbus NX might encourage young engineers to develop ideas of all kind incl. reusable rockets but 99.99% of these projects end up in failures. It doesn't cost much and everybody learns a lot from it.

 I conclude that everyone today agrees that reusable rockets do not work. Except Elox and NAXA of course. NAXA must keep up the myth that reusable space ships like the Shuttlx worked and Elox Musx is the perfect partner for this venture. It seems it is perfectly legal in UXA to spend taxpayers monex as you likeX.

What do you thinx?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 04:33:57 AM
Nope airbus are actively developing the program with a firm in use date. So not just a little side project for young engineers.

And not its just you and a few other FERS thst think it's fake. Everyone else thinks it's real.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 05:33:47 AM
It is interesting to note that you have spent your entire Christmas slavishly posting in defence of SpaceX's fraud on a Flat Earth forum.

If you are not employed by SpaceX to do so then I suggest you may need to revise your priorities in life.

Now: there were anywhere between Three & Zero 'sonic booms' reported at the SpaceX fraud-landing.

What is the correct number of sonic booms?

Thank you please!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 05:59:57 AM
Who says I celebrate Christmas's?  Beyond that it's not realy any of your business. .from all the fottage I have seen there was 2 sonic booms just before landing. Depending on where the fottage was recorded.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 06:18:35 AM
.from all the fottage I have seen there was 2 sonic booms just before landing. Depending on where the fottage was recorded.

That's a strangely evasive reply from someone who up to now has known everything there is to know about SpaceX's fraud-feats...

Also, please decide whether you intend the word 'footage' or the word 'frottage' for describing the SpaceX fraud-videos.

I suggest the latter.

Now, again; how many sonic booms were there: Three, Two, One, or Zero?

That no-one can agree on such a seemingly simple matter appears somewhat incongruent, does it not?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 06:27:49 AM
Again two were on all the fottage I have seen. How many do you suggest there should have been?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 06:46:16 AM
Also before you ask me another vague noise related question this website has the projected sonic boom footprint.http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/SpaceX-LC-1-Sonic-Boom-model.png (http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/SpaceX-LC-1-Sonic-Boom-model.png)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 06:56:32 AM
Please do not evade direct answers & waste my time by passing the buck on to fraudulent propaganda websites.

The fact that so-called 'witnesses' could not even agree on what they heard, let alone what they saw, is rather incriminating, don't you think?

Still, you seem to have settled on Two sonic booms.

Now; does the presence of Two sonic booms indicate that the SpaceX fraud-rokkit passed Sonic velocity twice in its final moments before landing?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 07:11:17 AM
Where are poeple saying different things?

Now; does the presence of Two sonic booms indicate that the SpaceX fraud-rokkit passed Sonic velocity twice in its final moments before landing?

This last bit makes me wonder if you even know how sonic booms work.

Generaly 2 sonic booms are generated one at the front of the craft and one at the rear. Depending on where you observe the boom you will hear just the 1 or 2 depending on how the wave fronts interact.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 07:38:57 AM
For an expert in all things SpaceX you seem to have gone very dumb all of a sudden.

There were reports of between Zero & Three sonic booms in a variety of media; this is easily researched.

Also, I have heard plenty of sonic booms thank you and am quite aware of how they work.

And, although you may be theoretically correct, in practice I've never heard a 'twin' one.

So please provide evidence that the SpaceX fraud-rokkit created such a thing.

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 07:47:43 AM
Now look at the sonic boom footprint in the picture i posted. notice how some areas are exposed to the boom and some not.and as for 3 booms ( I have yet to see anyone say 3) ever heard of sound bieng reflected? Otherwise known as an echo?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on December 31, 2015, 08:19:04 AM
Ariane are developing a reusable stage. You saying they are not will not change that. As for the rest hear is the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system
No. Airbus NX might encourage young engineers to develop ideas of all kind incl. reusable rockets but 99.99% of these projects end up in failures. It doesn't cost much and everybody learns a lot from it.
A company with a 99.99% failure rate doesn't sound like a very good investment to me.  I suggest that you dump your stock as soon a possible.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 08:23:11 AM
Otherwise known as an echo?

So it was an echo now?

What next - a Ghost?

Whatever; the Fact that you can provide no evidence whatsoever as to the existence, number of, or anything else relating to these phantom 'sonic booms' is noted.

Now; when these elusive 'sonic booms' occurred was the SpaceX fraud-rokkit allegedly under manouevre?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 08:31:04 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 31, 2015, 08:36:30 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.

Where is the UK occupant of the ISS currently?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 08:38:09 AM
Ariane are developing a reusable stage. You saying they are not will not change that. As for the rest hear is the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system
No. Airbus NX might encourage young engineers to develop ideas of all kind incl. reusable rockets but 99.99% of these projects end up in failures. It doesn't cost much and everybody learns a lot from it.
A company with a 99.99% failure rate doesn't sound like a very good investment to me.  I suggest that you dump your stock as soon a possible.
Hm, it seems big Airbus invests at little in very small companies run by inventors without money to see what happens, i.e. they fail after a while in most cases. All tax deductible. Actually Airbus is very profitable ... building civilian airplanes. The space biz is minimal but profitable. I have just increased my stake in the company.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 08:39:33 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 31, 2015, 08:41:39 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.
Link please

And the UK person in the ISS?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 08:50:06 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.
Link please

And the UK person in the ISS?

http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm)

As far as I am concerned nobody is in the ISS. It is just an empty silver colored satellite - some sort a balloon - deployed to impress any viewer. I have seen it several times and taken photos of it. Just a bright spot - like a star.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 09:07:39 AM

How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.

As for the amount of fuel used it isn't a secret. The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 09:09:10 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.

We have looked. There are no such calculations.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: inquisitive on December 31, 2015, 09:11:51 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.
Link please

And the UK person in the ISS?

http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm)

As far as I am concerned nobody is in the ISS. It is just an empty silver colored satellite - some sort a balloon - deployed to impress any viewer. I have seen it several times and taken photos of it. Just a bright spot - like a star.
Please post your pictures.  Where are the live broadcasts from?

Why should anyone accept you have enough knowledge to comment on this topic?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 31, 2015, 09:20:08 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 09:24:09 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 31, 2015, 09:38:31 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

Has been repeatedly explained in the "Skateboard-topic".

There are no "gas jets" with ~ 0 P and ~ 3 K. Every substance is solid or superfluid (H, He) under those conditions. I let you google a phase diagram yourself.

On the quote below; if fuel is required to fight the gravitational pull to get away from Earth,evenly fuel is required to decelerate and fight the same pull that attracts an imaginary spacy thingy acceleratibg it with the same 9.8 m/s2.

Not to mention that that whole trick is useless; the atmospheric friction would burn anything to dust, just like the many meteors traversing that atmosphere every day.
Quote

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 09:41:14 AM
And I'm sure it has been repeatedly debunked in the skateboard thread. As for the fuel remaining I realy can understand what problem you have with it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 09:49:23 AM
Sonic booms only occur where there is air at low altitudes and around 340 m/s speed. So there must have been a sonic boom just after start but then the rocket was over the Atlantic heading for the Azores and orbit at 700 000 m altitude. After separation at 80 000 m altitude the rocket first stage changed direction while slowing down and heading back to land, where it stopped at 200 000 m altitude and zero speed just above the launch pad and in no air and changed direction again = down.
How the first stage managed to turn 180° at supersonic speed between 80 000 and 200 000 m altitude is one of the mysteries of the whole SpaceX return recovery.
And then the first stage dropped straight down going faster and faster again and passing the speed of sound again. There was a reentry burn at 130 000 m altitude in nor air to slow down the drop but after that  it went faster and faster again. Now the famous hypersonic grid fins were flapped out to steer the rocket. We were back in very thin air.
To arrive in time you must have arrived at supersonic speed >1 150 m/s at about 17 000 m altitude only 30 seconds before touch down, when the Landing burn started. Maybe you had 340 m/s speed just 10 seconds before touch down = sonic boom. One rocket engine was burning full thrust 70 tons to stop the first stage and maybe the combination exhaust ejected at 5 000 m/s speed prevented a sonic boom. Maybe a sonic boom was created by the supersonic grid fins?
According my calculations one engine on full trust cannot have been sufficient to stop the first stage. To avoid a crash you need to fire four or five engines at full trust but there is a problem. You do not have the fuel for it. It would be interesting if SpaceX could inform how you stop anything doing 1 150 m/s speed in 30 seconds. And how much fuel was used.
Please show your calculations here.
The calculations are at my website.
Link please

And the UK person in the ISS?

http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm)

As far as I am concerned nobody is in the ISS. It is just an empty silver colored satellite - some sort a balloon - deployed to impress any viewer. I have seen it several times and taken photos of it. Just a bright spot - like a star.
Please post your pictures.  Where are the live broadcasts from?

Why should anyone accept you have enough knowledge to comment on this topic?

You have to study the information at my website, incl. CV, etc, and then verify it yourself. I publish under my own name and invite the readers to comment and correct any errors. My speciality is safety at sea and travel at sea ... but travel in space is fairly similar.

The pictures are from the SpaceX webcast - I provide the links, etc.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 10:45:43 AM
Can you show me some comparisons between travel at sea and space travel?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 31, 2015, 10:57:08 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

Has been repeatedly explained in the "Skateboard-topic".

There are no "gas jets" with ~ 0 P and ~ 3 K. Every substance is solid or superfluid (H, He) under those conditions. I let you google a phase diagram yourself.

On the quote below; if fuel is required to fight the gravitational pull to get away from Earth,evenly fuel is required to decelerate and fight the same pull that attracts an imaginary spacy thingy acceleratibg it with the same 9.8 m/s2.

Not to mention that that whole trick is useless; the atmospheric friction would burn anything to dust, just like the many meteors traversing that atmosphere every day.
Quote

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Is heat transfer instantaneous?  No.  So your gas is not at that temperature.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 31, 2015, 11:20:26 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

Has been repeatedly explained in the "Skateboard-topic".

There are no "gas jets" with ~ 0 P and ~ 3 K. Every substance is solid or superfluid (H, He) under those conditions. I let you google a phase diagram yourself.

On the quote below; if fuel is required to fight the gravitational pull to get away from Earth,evenly fuel is required to decelerate and fight the same pull that attracts an imaginary spacy thingy acceleratibg it with the same 9.8 m/s2.

Not to mention that that whole trick is useless; the atmospheric friction would burn anything to dust, just like the many meteors traversing that atmosphere every day.
Quote

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Is heat transfer instantaneous?  No.  So your gas is not at that temperature.

Yes, under those circumstances and in the absence of an enclosing medium (like atmosphere is) it is near-instantaneous. The atmosphere has a blanketing, soft effect. Space is black and white.

At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid. No escape from that vastly empty environment. No delays, no transient effects; just black and white.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Conker on December 31, 2015, 11:39:57 AM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

Has been repeatedly explained in the "Skateboard-topic".

There are no "gas jets" with ~ 0 P and ~ 3 K. Every substance is solid or superfluid (H, He) under those conditions. I let you google a phase diagram yourself.

On the quote below; if fuel is required to fight the gravitational pull to get away from Earth,evenly fuel is required to decelerate and fight the same pull that attracts an imaginary spacy thingy acceleratibg it with the same 9.8 m/s2.

Not to mention that that whole trick is useless; the atmospheric friction would burn anything to dust, just like the many meteors traversing that atmosphere every day.
Quote

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Is heat transfer instantaneous?  No.  So your gas is not at that temperature.

Yes, under those circumstances and in the absence of an enclosing medium (like atmosphere is) it is near-instantaneous. The atmosphere has a blanketing, soft effect. Space is black and white.

At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid. No escape from that vastly empty environment. No delays, no transient effects; just black and white.

Sorry, but under what mechanism (other than radiation) does a molecule cool down in space?
And, besides, many gases stay at gas form at the temperature of space, due to the very low pressure.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 12:05:55 PM
I notice no-one answered this:

Now; when these elusive 'sonic booms' occurred was the SpaceX fraud-rokkit allegedly under manouevre?

Please do so.

It is important.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
What do you mean under manoeuvre?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 12:26:29 PM
What do you mean under manoeuvre?

LOL!!!

You knew everything there was to know about the SpaceX fraud-rokkit earlier, yet now you seem to have forgotten even the most basic aeronautical terms.

That's because you know what's coming, don't you?

I grew up with this shit, Mr. Shpokk; I don't care what Idiots think, I KNOW this can only be fraud.

And you know why I know this is fraud...

But let's play the game a while longer, eh?

Was the SpaceX fraud-rokkit being steered whilst it made its unknown number of sonic booms?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 12:35:56 PM
The whole descent was controled so one would assume so. I'm guessing now you will tell me this is Impossible.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: frenat on December 31, 2015, 12:50:02 PM

It's not a mystery. It's in a vacume when it does the turn and does this using cold gas jets.


:D :D

There is no gas under space conditions and thrusters, boosters, rockets and burners do not (do) work.

Quote
The landing requires between 25-30% of avaliable fuel.

This is not even an answer. 25-30% of what? "Available fuel"? :D That's a physical term?

How much fuel do you reckon it takes to fight an acceleration of 9.8 m/s2? :D
Why don't gas jets work on a vacume

Has been repeatedly explained in the "Skateboard-topic".

There are no "gas jets" with ~ 0 P and ~ 3 K. Every substance is solid or superfluid (H, He) under those conditions. I let you google a phase diagram yourself.

On the quote below; if fuel is required to fight the gravitational pull to get away from Earth,evenly fuel is required to decelerate and fight the same pull that attracts an imaginary spacy thingy acceleratibg it with the same 9.8 m/s2.

Not to mention that that whole trick is useless; the atmospheric friction would burn anything to dust, just like the many meteors traversing that atmosphere every day.
Quote

And yes 25 30% of fuel is reserved for landing what's hard to understand.
Is heat transfer instantaneous?  No.  So your gas is not at that temperature.

Yes, under those circumstances and in the absence of an enclosing medium (like atmosphere is) it is near-instantaneous. The atmosphere has a blanketing, soft effect. Space is black and white.

At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid. No escape from that vastly empty environment. No delays, no transient effects; just black and white.
No, it is not near instantaneous.  It can't be.  It can only lose heat via radiation and that is a slower process.  Plus, single molecules can not "turn solid".  Solid implies attachment to other molecules.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 12:50:56 PM
one would assume so.

'One would assume so...'?

Look how far you are fallen from your ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, backed by THOUSANDS OF WITNESSES!!!

Reduced to 'assumptions' by one simple question...

LOL!!!

Whatever; you say this:

The whole descent was controled

So, I ask: what was 'controlling' it during the sonic booms?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 12:56:22 PM
Rcs thrusters and fins. Is that hard for you to understand? As for witnesses on the ground, what has that got to do with knowing what was controlling the craft.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: hoppy on December 31, 2015, 01:03:16 PM
Space x speaks for itself. Go watch a landing one day. You might learn something.

It is not so easy. A launch is one thing. The rocket flies away and disappears in the sky and is normally never seen again. A rocket landing is completely different and only one (topic) has been performed so far ... in the middle of the dark night ... with any independent observers several miles away. Amateur video photographers only recorded a small fireball in the air ... far away ... slowly coming down. If it were a landing nobody knows.  The trajectory of rocket from launch to landing is unfortunately secret and cannot be verified by outside experts. The US National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 and company privacy rules prevent verifications.

The Landing from helicopter  (http://)
Why is the fireball so small in this vid? The videos from the ground show the fireball nearly as big as the rocket. The video you post here is clearly not the event, this is probably cgi anyway.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:08:46 PM
1st there was no fireball it was just the flame exhust. And to answer your question the shots taken from the ground just show the smoke cloud bieng lit up by the flame and this shot is looking down from a different perspective.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 01:09:45 PM
Rcs thrusters

Please provide evidence of where the RCS thrusters were placed & how they functioned.

and fins

Grid Fins you mean?

Funny, cos one of the established problems of 'grid fins' is that they DO NOT function at transonic velocities due to shockwave build-up.

So, as sonic booms occur at transonic velocities, your 'assumption' that the descent of your shpayze-rokkit would be 'controlled' is looking rather unlikely.

Of course, when the stabilising fins of any missile malfunction, what occurs is known as a 'tumble'; i.e. it falls arse over tip, loses control & crashes...

Guess SpaceX are 'special', eh?

LOL!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:21:40 PM
1stly falcon 9 will always fall engins 1st because of its low center of gravity so it would be encredibly hard for it to tumble as you discribe. Look at diagrams of falcon to see where the rcs thrusters are. And provide me with evidence that rcs doesn't work the way they do. You are the one thst says they don't work not me.

In what sense do you mean grid fins don't work at transonic speeds.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 01:32:28 PM
In what sense do you mean grid fins don't work at transonic speeds.

In the sense that THEY DO NOT WORK AT TRANSONIC SPEEDS.

Anyone can google this...

Except you, it seems, Mr. Shpokk?

Highly Illogical, Captain
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:34:31 PM
Wow that was hard.https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon+9+rcs+ports&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=320&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO6rT-g4fKAhWBPRoKHT3oA78Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=UDuDVK_Cyre3GM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon+9+rcs+ports&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=320&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO6rT-g4fKAhWBPRoKHT3oA78Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=UDuDVK_Cyre3GM%3A)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 01:38:30 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon+9+rcs+ports&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=320&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO6rT-g4fKAhWBPRoKHT3oA78Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=UDuDVK_Cyre3GM%3A (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=falcon+9+rcs+ports&client=ms-android-orange-gb&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=320&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO6rT-g4fKAhWBPRoKHT3oA78Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=UDuDVK_Cyre3GM%3A)

LOL!!!

That shows NOTHING!

Wtf is wrong with you?

I've broken you, haven't I, you poor sod?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:39:17 PM
It's shows a RCS port what we're you expecting?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 01:45:47 PM
It's shows a RCS port what we're you expecting?

No it does not!

Let's start again:

Rcs thrusters

Please provide evidence of where the RCS thrusters were placed & how they functioned.

and fins

Grid Fins you mean?

Funny, cos one of the established problems of 'grid fins' is that they DO NOT function at transonic velocities due to shockwave build-up.

So, as sonic booms occur at transonic velocities, your 'assumption' that the descent of your shpayze-rokkit would be 'controlled' is looking rather unlikely.

Of course, when the stabilising fins of any missile malfunction, what occurs is known as a 'tumble'; i.e. it falls arse over tip, loses control & crashes...

Guess SpaceX are 'special', eh?

LOL!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:46:50 PM
It's shows a RCS port what we're you expecting?

No it does not!

Let's start again:

Rcs thrusters

Please provide evidence of where the RCS thrusters were placed & how they functioned.

and fins

Grid Fins you mean?

Funny, cos one of the established problems of 'grid fins' is that they DO NOT function at transonic velocities due to shockwave build-up.

So, as sonic booms occur at transonic velocities, your 'assumption' that the descent of your shpayze-rokkit would be 'controlled' is looking rather unlikely.

Of course, when the stabilising fins of any missile malfunction, what occurs is known as a 'tumble'; i.e. it falls arse over tip, loses control & crashes...

Guess SpaceX are 'special', eh?

LOL!!!

Does it not? Explain to me why it doesn't show rcs ports.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 01:49:14 PM
LOL!!!

Explain to me why it DOES you nutter!

*backs slowly away, throwing loose change as distraction*
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 01:52:53 PM
What should rcs ports look like to you if not what have been shown in the photo? If it helps most video fottage of the landing attempts show the rcs ports working.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on December 31, 2015, 01:58:07 PM
LOL!!!

Explain to me why it DOES you nutter!

*backs slowly away, throwing loose change as distraction*

Feliz año, Papa Legba. Impressive how you keep attending those tricky trolls so patiently.

All the best for 2016!

Gaia
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 02:14:25 PM
Check out transonic aerodynamics; it kills NASA, SpaceX, ESA & all their silly toys off forever.

Do yourselves a Favour: Learn yourselves Free.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 02:17:03 PM
How long is falcon 9 transonic for?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 02:23:16 PM
LOL!!!

Now I'm the expert?

I thought it was you?

Pathetic!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 02:25:24 PM
Well you seem to know that it's not possible so I can only assume you have done some research into the subject matter.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 02:29:05 PM
LOL!!!

I really have broken you haven't I?

Happy New Year, you Clockwork Monkey!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
I know how long it was transonic for. I'm just a bit confused that you have come to your conclusion and you do not.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 02:44:51 PM
I'm just a bit confused

Yeah; I know.

It's New Years Eve, Shpokky-boy...

Get laid ffs!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on December 31, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Nothing left to say so you just resort to clipping my quotes? Get back to me when you actually have a case to argue.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on December 31, 2015, 08:23:34 PM
How long is falcon 9 transonic for?

(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)

It is suggested that 45 seconds after start the speed is 340 m/s at 8 000 m altitude, i.e. the rocket is transonic for the first time. 150 seconds after start the speed is 1 700 m/s at 80 000 m altitude, where separation occurs. The first stage – mass say 105 tons - now moves on by its own momentum for 135 seconds up to 200 000 m altitude being slowed down by boost back burns and gravity.

285 seconds after start the velocity is 0 m/s at 200 000 m altitude but far out to sea  and the first stage flies and drops back to landing zone 1 assisted by more boost back burns. Maybe between 280 and 290 seconds after start the speed is subsonic for a short while.

The return bit takes 300 seconds, so 585 seconds (9 minutes and 45 seconds) after start the empty first stage - mass now 50 tons - has landed again. There is an entry burn at around 130 000 m altitude during the return but, I assume the speed is then transonic >1 100 m/s. The landing burn may take 30 seconds starting at say 17 000 m altitude and the rocket is maybe transonic for at least 20 seconds and subsonic for only the last 10 seconds. All maneouvres/burns are automatic and controlled by computers.

The whole return and recovery is a fairy tale or fraud in my opinion. Reason is fuel and fuel consumption. 55 tons of fuel is not sufficient for the proposed boost back, entry and landing burns. You need four times more fuel for the return and recovery but then you will not get off the ground. Also the hypersonic grid fins steering the rocket during the return are also a joke. Most of the trip is in very thin air or almost vacuum.


Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on December 31, 2015, 09:20:35 PM
Get back to me when you actually have a case to argue.

LOL!!!

Says the Star Trek fetishist who provided no evidence of the mythical 'cold gas nitrogen thrusters' existence, then pretended he did.

What a fraud!



Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: FlatOrange on December 31, 2015, 10:28:22 PM
Update:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2uqgmjt.jpg)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 01:27:30 AM
How long is falcon 9 transonic for?

(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)

It is suggested that 45 seconds after start the speed is 340 m/s at 8 000 m altitude, i.e. the rocket is transonic for the first time. 150 seconds after start the speed is 1 700 m/s at 80 000 m altitude, where separation occurs. The first stage – mass say 105 tons - now moves on by its own momentum for 135 seconds up to 200 000 m altitude being slowed down by boost back burns and gravity.

285 seconds after start the velocity is 0 m/s at 200 000 m altitude but far out to sea  and the first stage flies and drops back to landing zone 1 assisted by more boost back burns. Maybe between 280 and 290 seconds after start the speed is subsonic for a short while.

The return bit takes 300 seconds, so 585 seconds (9 minutes and 45 seconds) after start the empty first stage - mass now 50 tons - has landed again. There is an entry burn at around 130 000 m altitude during the return but, I assume the speed is then transonic >1 100 m/s. The landing burn may take 30 seconds starting at say 17 000 m altitude and the rocket is maybe transonic for at least 20 seconds and subsonic for only the last 10 seconds. All maneouvres/burns are automatic and controlled by computers.

The whole return and recovery is a fairy tale or fraud in my opinion. Reason is fuel and fuel consumption. 55 tons of fuel is not sufficient for the proposed boost back, entry and landing burns. You need four times more fuel for the return and recovery but then you will not get off the ground. Also the hypersonic grid fins steering the rocket during the return are also a joke. Most of the trip is in very thin air or almost vacuum.
The 1st stage is transonic for barley 2 seconds not sure where you got 20 seconds from.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 01, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
How long is falcon 9 transonic for?

(http://heiwaco.com/F9traject.gif)

It is suggested that 45 seconds after start the speed is 340 m/s at 8 000 m altitude, i.e. the rocket is transonic for the first time. 150 seconds after start the speed is 1 700 m/s at 80 000 m altitude, where separation occurs. The first stage – mass say 105 tons - now moves on by its own momentum for 135 seconds up to 200 000 m altitude being slowed down by boost back burns and gravity.

285 seconds after start the velocity is 0 m/s at 200 000 m altitude but far out to sea  and the first stage flies and drops back to landing zone 1 assisted by more boost back burns. Maybe between 280 and 290 seconds after start the speed is subsonic for a short while.

The return bit takes 300 seconds, so 585 seconds (9 minutes and 45 seconds) after start the empty first stage - mass now 50 tons - has landed again. There is an entry burn at around 130 000 m altitude during the return but, I assume the speed is then transonic >1 100 m/s. The landing burn may take 30 seconds starting at say 17 000 m altitude and the rocket is maybe transonic for at least 20 seconds and subsonic for only the last 10 seconds. All maneouvres/burns are automatic and controlled by computers.

The whole return and recovery is a fairy tale or fraud in my opinion. Reason is fuel and fuel consumption. 55 tons of fuel is not sufficient for the proposed boost back, entry and landing burns. You need four times more fuel for the return and recovery but then you will not get off the ground. Also the hypersonic grid fins steering the rocket during the return are also a joke. Most of the trip is in very thin air or almost vacuum.
The 1st stage is transonic for barley 2 seconds not sure where you got 20 seconds from.
You are right. The first stage is hypersonic for 18 seconds, transonic for barely 2 seconds and subsonic for 10 seconds during the 30 seconds landing burn. Imagine stopping a 50 tons first stage from >1 100 m/s hypersonic speed to 0 speed in 30 seconds. Imagine what happens if your fire the rocket a few seconds too late or too early.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 01:48:34 AM
Yes if it fails it crashes. But it didn't fail.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 01, 2016, 02:08:14 AM
Yes if it fails it crashes. But it didn't fail.

I looked like it but didn't fool me. There was no fuel left to do any Landing burn. I think the rocket we saw - on a TV screen - standing on the ground 9 minutes 45 seconds after the lift off never left ground but were hidden behind a screen. A standard magic trick. In the long run it will not help Elon and his assistants. Why would anyone try this type of silly magic?

Anyway, the complete 9 minutes 45 seconds trajectory should have been recorded by radars, etc. I look forward to such data. Also it would be interesting to see how much fuel was used for each burn and how it affected the trajectory.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 03:09:23 AM
Yes that information would be interesting. But the company is under no obligation to release it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 03:43:17 AM
But the company is under no obligation to release it.

Convenient.

Does the same fraud-excuse apply to their 'cold gas nitrogen thrusters' (lol!)?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 03:51:12 AM
Why is it convenien? You are more than welcom to set up your own radar instilation and track the launch yourself. And as for the thrusters. It's not adsactly hard to verify yourself. 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 04:59:24 AM
Update:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2uqgmjt.jpg)

Reminds me of the space shuttle after landing.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 05:02:45 AM
as for the thrusters. It's not adsactly hard to verify yourself.

Yes it is; there is no information on them anywhere.

Even you can't find any & you WORK for SpaceX ffs!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 05:09:02 AM
What information do you want adsactly?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 08:17:37 AM
What information do you want adsactly?

The information I want is this: why do you ALWAYS spell 'exactly' as 'adsactly'?

And 'footage' as 'fottage'?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 08:54:09 AM
That would be because I'm on a phone and for some reason autocorect likes swapping my words.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2016, 09:00:41 AM
That would be because I'm on a phone and for some reason autocorect likes swapping my words.
What a crock of shit. You've been doing this for a long time. I even pulled you up on it over a year ago.
The trouble with people like you is, you just refuse to learn, even when people point out clear errors in your spelling. And don't tell me that auto correct comes up with adsactly for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: hoppy on January 01, 2016, 09:56:10 AM
Update:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2uqgmjt.jpg)
LOL, Damn, I'm so happy, I almost jizzed my pants. Lol
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 10:04:24 AM
http://m.imgur.com/HBz5VPs (http://m.imgur.com/HBz5VPs)
Nice before and after of the stage.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 10:15:50 AM


Heiwa hear is a graph with speed and down range distance using telemetry date from the 1st stage. May be of some use to you
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 11:01:02 AM
That would be because I'm on a phone and for some reason autocorect likes swapping my words.

As the words 'adsactly' & 'fottage' do not exist, I suggest you are making shit up.

It is quite the habit with you, is it not?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 11:03:30 AM
That would be because I'm on a phone and for some reason autocorect likes swapping my words.

As the words 'adsactly' & 'fottage' do not exist, I suggest you are making shit up.

It is quite the habit with you, is it not?
  If you have a problem with spelling then be my guest and start a thread on it. If you have anything to submit in response to space x then please do so on this thread.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 11:39:34 AM
If you have anything to submit in response to space x then please do so on this thread.
Okay, Mr. Shpokk.

Here's something I posted days ago that you & your fellow SpaceX employee flatorange never truly addressed:

Oh, & is it just me or did flatorange include the words 'first landing success' in the title of this thread BEFORE the landing had actually happened?

Look at the time of his first post:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")

Yet here he is fifty minutes later:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

LOL!!!

Have the Clown Derfers been playing with their Ouija boards again?

Everyone knows you are a joke, Mr. Shpokk.

Everyone is laughing at you & your CGI fraud.

Except for idiots, that is...

But nobody cares about them.

Toodle-pip, Pied-Piper Shpokk!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 11:48:20 AM
As far as I can see he gave you an answer. If your not satisfied with it then you need to ask him.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 12:03:15 PM
As far as I can see he gave you an answer. If your not satisfied with it then you need to ask him.

Oh, I did.

And he panicked, jumped on his moral high horse, then threatened to report me if I repeated my questions.

It was LOL!!!

Just like you & all your fraud-answers on this whole SpaceX vertical-landing shpayze-rokkit farce have been LOL!!!

Like I said; I don't care what idiots think...

You, sadly, care about nothing else.

Highly illogical, Captain!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 12:09:07 PM
If you don't care then why do you continue to post?

On a diferent note Have you decided yet what information on the RCS system you require?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 01, 2016, 12:14:51 PM
If you don't care then why do you continue to post?

Because you do too; it proves my point nicely.

On a diferent note Have you decided yet what information on the RCS system you require?

I already told you.

You ignored it.

Now you pretend you didn't.

Thus proving my point again.

Voodoo, voodoo, everywhere...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 12:19:22 PM
Well I must have missed it. Quote it for me and I will try and answers your question.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 01, 2016, 12:28:42 PM
Well I must have missed it. Quote it for me and I will try and answers your question.

Spacy Shpocky really believes that hitting the "reply"-button after putting some shady words in "sequence" is an "answer"... :D

It is "adsactly" like space itself; empty nothingness.

And that useful idiot no way works for Spacey X Cakex. Far too silly, that joker...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 01, 2016, 01:27:41 PM


Heiwa hear is a graph with speed and down range distance using telemetry date from the 1st stage. May be of some use to you

Thanks. It is interesting to note that Elon's Falcon 9 rocket with mass 50 tons in this graph drops free fall from 180 000 m altitude to 50 000 m altitude faster than gravity can accelerate it! Impressive! The speed at 50 000 m altitude is ~1600 m/s and there is no way to stop that momentum with some entry and landing burns. Elon should have crashed.
I have update my web page about it accordingly.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 01:47:09 PM
I have it taking about 163 seconds to travel from just over 180,000 feet until 50,000. Looks like itmatches what you would expect.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 01, 2016, 02:08:48 PM
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 01, 2016, 02:41:19 PM
I have it taking about 163 seconds to travel from just over 180,000 feet until 50,000. Looks like itmatches what you would expect.

Not with feet. Otherwise OK.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 01, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Yes indeed meant meters. I Generaly work in feet with altitude. But as I said it does not break the laws of physics as you suggest.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 01, 2016, 03:10:45 PM
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???

I've not used the word "single". And that's evading the point; the conditions of space do not allow for gas to exist. That's not me saying that, that's physical-chemical laws. Any phase diagram of near-zero Pressures and Temperatures will show you that. It really is basic physics, no "rocket science"... :D Not really anyway, as 'rocket science' is an orbital oxymoron. :D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sokarul on January 01, 2016, 04:34:20 PM
You are incapable of reading phase diagrams. Please note this.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 01, 2016, 05:27:39 PM
You are incapable of reading phase diagrams. Please note this.

A statement. Without any value.

I wish you lots of learning for 2016. LOTS of it; you need it urgently.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 01, 2016, 10:21:12 PM
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???

I've not used the word "single".
You most certainly said "a gas molecule", which is in the singular form.  How else was I supposed to interpret your statement?

And that's evading the point; the conditions of space do not allow for gas to exist. That's not me saying that, that's physical-chemical laws. Any phase diagram of near-zero Pressures and Temperatures will show you that.
As Papa Legba is fond of pointing out, gasses (freely) expand in a vacuum.  Expanding a gas is not a very efficient way of turning it into a solid.

It really is basic physics...
Yes, basic physics that seem to be beyond your comprehension.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 02, 2016, 12:44:37 AM
If you have a problem with spelling then be my guest and start a thread on it. If you have anything to submit in response to space x then please do so on this thread.
Come on, Pythagoras, expecting Papa Legba to actually answer questions is a bit much.  He is just a poorly programmed Neural Network AI that looks up a few canned answers from its database!
This AI seems to have a few standard sign offs like "Toodle-pip, weirdo" etc.
Ask it about how the Space-X rocket manages to work in the near vacuum of 100 km and it triggers a memory dump!  Are you old enough to remember trying to debug from that sort of thing.  You really should try triggering Papa Legba's memory dump sometime, an illegal memory access might do it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 02, 2016, 01:05:37 AM
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???

I've not used the word "single".
You most certainly said "a gas molecule", which is in the singular form.  How else was I supposed to interpret your statement?

Needless nitpicking. There will be no "propellant gas molecules" anyway, so the whole thought experiment becomes rather silly.

Quote
And that's evading the point; the conditions of space do not allow for gas to exist. That's not me saying that, that's physical-chemical laws. Any phase diagram of near-zero Pressures and Temperatures will show you that.
As Papa Legba is fond of pointing out, gasses (freely) expand in a vacuum.  Expanding a gas is not a very efficient way of turning it into a solid.

"Efficient way"? Nature's ways are not about human labels like "efficiency". Nature behaves like it does; according to physical laws, no matter how "efficient" mere humans will label that.

And the below ad hominem is hilarious. You give no science-based answer, so it's not me who doesn't understand basic chemo-physics. A phase diagram really is not hard to grasp.

That the learning of it, breaking propaganda paradigms of "space" proponents may be hard to experience might be true however...

Quote

It really is basic physics...
Yes, basic physics that seem to be beyond your comprehension.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 02, 2016, 03:17:09 AM
Is heat transfer instantaneous?  No.  So your gas is not at that temperature.
Yes, under those circumstances and in the absence of an enclosing medium (like atmosphere is) it is near-instantaneous. The atmosphere has a blanketing, soft effect. Space is black and white.

At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid. No escape from that vastly empty environment. No delays, no transient effects; just black and white.
1) No, heat transfer is never instantaneous. . Heat is transferred by conduction (nil in a vacuum),  convection (nil in a vacuum) and radiation - the only mechanism left under vacuum conditions.  Also heat is not only lost to radiation, it can also be gained - from the sun (not here it's night) or from the earth, at around 25C.  No, the rocket will not cool instantaneously!

2) Another little matter!
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???
I've not used the word "single".
True, you did not actually use the word  "single", but you did say At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid. , so denying the word "single"  seems a bit disingenuous to me.

SoSo,  the question remains: "How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?"
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 02, 2016, 04:11:29 AM
I like this thread. A first stage rocket (2nd class rubbish IMO) is ejected high up into space and far away over sea from land, where the adventure started and, after the first stage was separated from its second stage that continued into orbit, the first stage also continued but slower. It still moved up and away due to its momentum. But that could not continue. The expensive first stage must return to base, land and be re-used. To make the owner a hero. Worse than Starwars.
So what happened? To start with the first stage flipped around 180° - engines then facing forward or horizontally - and was adjusted someway by cold gas jet ejections right/left/up/down - so that the you could start to brake by firing the rocket engines in the right direction back to base. All this at high speed. Every second counted. If you slept at the buttons or were too eager to act, you had wait for the RIGHT MOMENT to act.  You? A computer! STARWARS! So our hero - he was down on Earth watching the show on a TV screen  -  was doing nothing apart from that. Or twittering, or modifying his Facebook account with 1 000 000 friend or putting videos on YouTube. Great fun. This thread is a top FE forum thread.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 02, 2016, 04:16:57 AM
I like this thread. A first stage rocket (2nd class rubbish IMO) is ejected high up into space and far away over sea from land, where the adventure started and, after the first stage was separated from its second stage that continued into orbit, the first stage also continued but slower. It still moved up and away due to its momentum. But that could not continue. The expensive first stage must return to base, land and be re-used. To make the owner a hero. Worse than Starwars.
So what happened? To start with the first stage flipped around 180° - engines then facing forward or horizontally - and was adjusted someway by cold gas jet ejections right/left/up/down - so that the you could start to brake by firing the rocket engines in the right direction back to base. All this at high speed. Every second counted. If you slept at the buttons or were too eager to act, you had wait for the RIGHT MOMENT to act.  You? A computer! STARWARS! So our hero - he was down on Earth watching the show on a TV screen  -  was doing nothing apart from that. Or twittering, or modifying his Facebook account with 1 000 000 friend or putting videos on YouTube. Great fun. This thread is a top FE forum thread.


You havnt stated why it's not possible, just that you don't think it is.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 02, 2016, 05:05:45 AM
I like this thread. A first stage rocket (2nd class rubbish IMO) is ejected high up into space and far away over sea from land, where the adventure started and, after the first stage was separated from its second stage that continued into orbit, the first stage also continued but slower. It still moved up and away due to its momentum. But that could not continue. The expensive first stage must return to base, land and be re-used. To make the owner a hero. Worse than Starwars.
So what happened? To start with the first stage flipped around 180° - engines then facing forward or horizontally - and was adjusted someway by cold gas jet ejections right/left/up/down - so that the you could start to brake by firing the rocket engines in the right direction back to base. All this at high speed. Every second counted. If you slept at the buttons or were too eager to act, you had wait for the RIGHT MOMENT to act.  You? A computer! STARWARS! So our hero - he was down on Earth watching the show on a TV screen  -  was doing nothing apart from that. Or twittering, or modifying his Facebook account with 1 000 000 friend or putting videos on YouTube. Great fun. This thread is a top FE forum thread.


You havnt stated why it's not possible, just that you don't think it is.
I am biassed. IMO it is much cheaper, safer, simpler to use one, not very expensive single engine first stage + cheap solid fuel boosters (read Ariane 5), and not a nine engines, very expensive first stage SpaceX monster, to deliver the second stage to continue. This SpaceX show nonsense to return/recover a stupid rocket is just to impress Americans to pay ... for something the competition does better at half price. But do not blame me. I am only an investor of the opposition.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 02, 2016, 05:13:50 AM
Expensive? Space x is the cheapest launche provider even without reusability. Thats why the new ariane 6 is bieng developed to include a reusable stage. Because they known they cant compete. I think you need to check your figures.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 02, 2016, 05:46:06 AM
Expensive? Space x is the cheapest launche provider even without reusability. Thats why the new ariane 6 is bieng developed to include a reusable stage. Because they known they cant compete. I think you need to check your figures.
There is no biz like the space biz. And the result is the balance sheet. Elon cannot/havenot ever produce(d) a proper balance sheet. So we just have to await developments.  ;D
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 02, 2016, 05:55:51 AM
Or you can look into the fact ariane are developing a reusable launcher. Ariane 5 launch cost is in the area of 200 million  falcon 9 is in the 60 million mark. Now ariane 5 can launch twice the weight of falcon 9 but that is only an advantage to very large payloads. The current market trend is for smaller cheeper sats. So this is not a long term advantage. Now obviously there will ways be a need for some very large craft to be put in orbit and space x are building the Falcon heavy to corner this market to.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 02, 2016, 06:11:55 AM
Or you can look into the fact ariane are developing a reusable launcher. Ariane 5 launch cost is in the area of 200 million  falcon 9 is in the 60 million mark. Now ariane 5 can launch twice the weight of falcon 9 but that is only an advantage to very large payloads. The current market trend is for smaller cheeper sats. So this is not a long term advantage. Now obviously there will ways be a need for some very large craft to be put in orbit and space x are building the Falcon heavy to corner this market to.

You sound like a SpaceX sales person = copy/paste the Elon nonsense. Topic is the SpeceX fake return/recovery show and not Arianespace.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 02, 2016, 06:15:48 AM
And you might want to think about selling you shares in a company that's 10 years behind the curve.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 02, 2016, 07:04:54 AM
At the moment a gas molecule is exposed to the vast nothingness of space it turns solid.
How can you tell if a single molecule is solid, liquid or gas?  ???

I've not used the word "single".
You most certainly said "a gas molecule", which is in the singular form.  How else was I supposed to interpret your statement?

Needless nitpicking.
Aren't you supposed to be a teacher or a scientist or something like that?  If so. then it seems to me that precision in your words should be very necessary nit picking.

There will be no "propellant gas molecules" anyway, so the whole thought experiment becomes rather silly.
Oh?  Why not?  Do Newton's laws of motion stop working in a vacuum?

Quote
And that's evading the point; the conditions of space do not allow for gas to exist. That's not me saying that, that's physical-chemical laws. Any phase diagram of near-zero Pressures and Temperatures will show you that.
As Papa Legba is fond of pointing out, gasses (freely) expand in a vacuum.  Expanding a gas is not a very efficient way of turning it into a solid.

"Efficient way"? Nature's ways are not about human labels like "efficiency". Nature behaves like it does; according to physical laws, no matter how "efficient" mere humans will label that.

And the below ad hominem is hilarious. You give no science-based answer, so it's not me who doesn't understand basic chemo-physics. A phase diagram really is not hard to grasp.
Since the important reactions occur within the high pressure, high temperature environment within the rocket's combustion chamber, I hardly think that your low pressure, low temperature turns gasses solid argument is even relevant.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 02, 2016, 11:31:17 PM
Since the important reactions occur within the high pressure, high temperature environment within the rocket's combustion chamber

LOL!!!

You just won't give up on your 'high pressures & combustion are possible in an infinite vacuum' schtick, will you, Humpty Dumpty?

But that is your nature, after all.

Frankly, you'd get better brainwashing results by employing a Hypnotoad...

Because if you did, thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 03, 2016, 05:59:14 AM
Since the important reactions occur within the high pressure, high temperature environment within the rocket's combustion chamber

LOL!!!

You just won't give up on your 'high pressures & combustion are possible in an infinite vacuum' schtick, will you, Humpty Dumpty?

But that is your nature, after all.

Frankly, you'd get better brainwashing results by employing a Hypnotoad...

Because if you did, thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!

According to the flawed "physics" presented by markjo you can just seal the end of a cannon, fire the thing and it moves backward (backfire).

Obviously the work is only done by the exiting gases of a rocket pushing against atmosphere and not inside the chamber of combustion itself.

Repeating NASA lies has nil to do with proper physics.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 06:09:40 AM
Preaching to the Choir, Gaia...

That's why I say these guys really need a Hypnotoad.

It's the only way thALL GLORY TO THE HYPONOTOAD!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on January 03, 2016, 07:29:46 AM
Since the important reactions occur within the high pressure, high temperature environment within the rocket's combustion chamber

LOL!!!

You just won't give up on your 'high pressures & combustion are possible in an infinite vacuum' schtick, will you, Humpty Dumpty?

But that is your nature, after all.

Frankly, you'd get better brainwashing results by employing a Hypnotoad...

Because if you did, thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!

According to the flawed "physics" presented by markjo you can just seal the end of a cannon, fire the thing and it moves backward (backfire).

Obviously the work is only done by the exiting gases of a rocket pushing against atmosphere and not inside the chamber of combustion itself.

Repeating NASA lies has nil to do with proper physics.

rockets and jet engines in general rely on conservation of momentum, they do not work pushing against air.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 07:39:00 AM
LOL!!!

'In general'?

No, troll-thing, in fact thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on January 03, 2016, 08:06:51 AM
jet engines as a whole, both air breathing jet engines and rocket engines
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: justwhy on January 03, 2016, 08:13:53 AM
According to the flawed "physics" presented by markjo you can just seal the end of a cannon, fire the thing and it moves backward (backfire).

Obviously the work is only done by the exiting gases of a rocket pushing against atmosphere and not inside the chamber of combustion itself.

Repeating NASA lies has nil to do with proper physics.
The canon would start moving backwards, until the canon ball hits seal, causing the Canon to move back to its original position.
No one believes that the force comes from the gases hitting the chamber, its the gas leaving the rocket, since the gas has momentum, the rocket must gain moment in the opposite direction.
Or is conservation of momentum not "proper physics"
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 08:16:13 AM
since the gas has momentum, the rocket must gain moment in the opposite direction.

LOL!!!

So, no need for Newton's tALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 03, 2016, 08:38:09 AM
To return to topic it was the rocket engines that pushed the Falcon 9 rocket up and away into the sky and space, i.e. the engines pushed the rocket (and not air or vacuum). Works in air or vacuum and even water (my favourite medium). To push the rocket the engine produced thrust burning fuel.

The topic is if it was possible to do the same thing when Elon's rocket started to drop down to Earth again by gravity, i.e. at the right moment fire the engines again to provide thrust to stop the drop ... and land vertically.

Elon suggests that his expensive rocket came dropping down at say 1 500 m/s speed and after a quick Landing burn the rocket landed hole in one on a little cement platform in Florida a minute later in clouds of smoke ... as seen on a TV screen.

It was a simple magician's trick. The rocket was on the cement platform all the time.


Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 03, 2016, 08:42:02 AM
Again you provide no reason or evidence as to why it's not possible.  Just your opinion.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 03, 2016, 10:14:22 AM
Since the important reactions occur within the high pressure, high temperature environment within the rocket's combustion chamber

LOL!!!

You just won't give up on your 'high pressures & combustion are possible in an infinite vacuum' schtick, will you, Humpty Dumpty?
And you just won't give up your tired old straw man.   I'm claiming that high pressure and combustion are possible in a finite combustion chamber.  If you can't tell the difference between a finite combustion chamber and infinite space, then you really shouldn't be discussing anything even remotely scientific.

According to the flawed "physics" presented by markjo you can just seal the end of a cannon, fire the thing and it moves backward (backfire).
No, that would be your flawed interpretation of the physics that I presented.

Obviously the work is only done by the exiting gases of a rocket pushing against atmosphere and not inside the chamber of combustion itself.
How does the atmosphere push back against the rocket?  Remember, that Newton said that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. 

Tell me Gaia, are you one of those people who think that the exhaust is still a part of the rocket?

Repeating NASA lies has nil to do with proper physics.
That's right, proper physics has to do with proper physics.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like you have a grasp on proper physics just yet.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 10:26:34 AM
And you just won't give up your tired old straw man.

LOL!!!

'Help me to understand' why you are so morally & intellectually bankrupt.

Preferably without saying 'NO U!' please.

Or, just fALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 03, 2016, 10:47:47 AM
Again you provide no reason or evidence as to why it's not possible.  Just your opinion.

OK, it was the first time in history of a rocket return flight, recovery and landing. It was night time and dark. Any viewers of the landing were far away unless they were in some control center watching it on TV.

At a certain time T+00:08:02 the rocket, mass say 76 tons (with fuel) was passing altitude 50 000 m at 1 600 m/s speed vertically down and should in principle crash after 32 seconds but an Entry burn was fired and the rocket slowed down one way or another by a 77 tons thrust. Maybe 16 tons of fuel was used. It takes 62 seconds to burn that much fuel so in my opinion Elon should have crashed now.

But no.

At time T+00;08;40, i.e. 38 seconds later - the Entry burn was still on? - the rocket was at a hefty 10 000 m altitude at  speed say 504 m/s. It had thus travelled 40 000 m in 38 seconds = average speed 1 052 m/s. If the initial speed was 1 600 m/s, the speed at 10 000 altitude may then have been 504 m/s.

With that supersonic speed flying backwards you hit ground after 20 seconds.

But Elon fired a Landing burn providing 77 tons thrust so that the rocket - mass 50 tons - touched down at 2 m/s speed less than a minute later. 8 tons of fuel was used. It takes 31 seconds to burn that fuel, so again Elon should have crashed for the second time.

Don't you agree? Or do you think that Elon had speed 20 m/s at 300 m altitude, etc? Steering with his hypersonic grid fins?

But no. On a TV screen something looking like a rocket lands - producing plenty smoke, etc, etc.

A normal passenger jet takes 30 minutes to descend from 10 000 m to land horizontally at say <100 m/s speed.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 03, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
You are comparing this to a normal airplane landing?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 10:52:54 AM
No, he's comparing it to a tacky, ridiculous CGI & sfx Fraud.

We all arALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 03, 2016, 11:03:51 AM
You are comparing this to a normal airplane landing?

Normal airplanes land horizontally and slow down a lot. Don't you know that?

Elon says his rocket landed - all automatic, auto pilot, comuters - vertically at hypersonic speed less than a minute before vertical touch down or it travelled 10 000 m down at average 252 m/s, which would take 40 seconds leaving ample time for adjusting the final touch down. But I doubt he had enough fuel to stop the descent at 1 600 m/s speed at T+00:08:02 . I explain more at my web site. 

Wouldn't it have been much nicer to stop higher up an slowly descend in full view in day light? But it would require much more fuel. So it had to go fast! But still there was no place for any fuel to do it.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Pythagoras on January 03, 2016, 11:10:44 AM
You literally answered your own question. Yes hebhad to go fast because it uses the least fuel
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 01:51:02 PM
How does the atmosphere push back against the rocket?

Pressure-gradient forces.

If you were right, then all the weather on earth would stop working...

But it hasn't, because you're not.

As usual.

Now; what about thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: luckyfred on January 03, 2016, 02:37:06 PM
but if the nozzle is adpated the pressure at the exit of the nozzle is the same of the atmosphere around it...
so there is no pressure gradient
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 02:47:58 PM
but if the nozzle is adpated the pressure at the exit of the nozzle is the same of the atmosphere around it...
so there is no pressure gradient


That is pure Comedy Gold...

Just perfect Clown Derf self-mockery; thank you!

Anyhoo; tALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOPOODLE!!!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 03, 2016, 05:05:00 PM
You literally answered your own question. Yes he had to go fast because it uses the least fuel
Correct. But he still does not have sufficient fuel/energy to stop. Try to park a car backwards in a garage while braking from full speed using the engine also to brake. I cannot understand how anyone takes Elon serious. But it is fun. It cannot go on.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 03, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
You literally answered your own question. Yes he had to go fast because it uses the least fuel
Correct. But he still does not have sufficient fuel/energy to stop. Try to park a car backwards in a garage while braking from full speed using the engine also to brake. I cannot understand how anyone takes Elon serious. But it is fun. It cannot go on.

Well, people are taught you can just go light speed and enter the new Death Star without problems. Science fiction has taken over from real science and the line between film and reality has been blurred by NASA and Elons space dinky toys, so you really cannot blame the brainwashed sheeple.

That is different for the brainless proponents of shpayze shit here in the topic. They deliberately propagandize the shockingly shabby Scheisse of the clawy clowns.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 03, 2016, 05:35:28 PM
but if the nozzle is adpated the pressure at the exit of the nozzle is the same of the atmosphere around it...
so there is no pressure gradient
Note to Papa Legba:  Don't read past this point, as it is way above your pay grade!

One tiny correction, it is only for the "optimal nozzle" that "the pressure at the exit of the nozzle is the same of the atmosphere around it..."
This is a problem for rockets that are launched from ground and have to reach high altitude (100 km for Space-X stage 1 at separation). 
The nozzle is then designed for an intermediate altitude.  At launch the nozzle is over-expanded and at maximum altitude it is under-expanded, leading in both cases to a little lost efficiency.
A nozzle that is too much over-expanded can lead to instability of the exit stream.  This is more serious for high-altitude jet planes (like the SR-71A) which must spend most of their flight time at extreme altitudes, yet be able to take off from sea level.  In this case, some form of variable nozzle becomes necessary.

Notwithstanding all this, the rocket nozzle works perfectly well even when not optimised.  And, of course, under vacuum conditions it is completely impractical to "optimise" the nozzle - it would need an "infinite" area!  So, an optimised nozzle very often is not the best nozzle for a particular application.

An important point to note is that, even for the non-optimal nozzle, the thrust of a rocket always increases as the external pressure falls, right down to a vacuum, as in:
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Unified%20Propulsion%20by%20Prof%20Ian%20Waltz%20-%20MIT-edu_zpsnaaoba90.png)
from: http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/Propulsion.pdf (http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/Propulsion.pdf)
Here: T=static thrust, m.dot=rate of change of momentum (it's the rocket's mass that is changing), Ae=exhaust area, pe=exhaust pressure and po=outside or ambient pressure.
The first term is the major one and is simply the time derivative momentum, the second smaller term shows
Just watch this trigger a memory dump from the AI we all know as Papa Legba - wait for it.........................!
(I hope you will forgive me for hijacking your post a bit to get up you know who's nose a bit.)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 03, 2016, 05:50:25 PM
How does the atmosphere push back against the rocket?

Pressure-gradient forces.
Would you care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: CaptainMagpie on January 03, 2016, 05:58:36 PM
We should all realize that this stuff is something someone is actually trying to do. It is because the founder of Amazon doesn't pay his workers squat and has wayyyyyy to much money to play with. I think it is possible to do but at the same time I think it is stupid and unnecessary. It increases the cost way too much for the benefit and makes everything have to work twice as hard to lift the extra fuel. It's a neat idea I guess but there is no real practical application.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 03, 2016, 10:33:35 PM
Note to Papa Legba:  Don't read past this point

Why not?

And, of course, under vacuum conditions it is completely impractical to "optimise" the nozzle - it would need an "infinite" area!

Oh, here's why: not-Geoff/Rayzor/Soulblood drunkenly omitted to edit some Truth out of his copy/pasta spam!

What a loser.

Would you care to elaborate?

Would you care to remember that I already have?

Oh, you can't, cos of your crippling alzheimers.

What a cuALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!

We should all realize that this stuff is something someone is actually trying to do.

We should all realise it is Fraud.

And, by promoting it, you & your cronys are aiding & abetting in a Conspiracy to Defraud.

Which makes you all Criminals.

You'll never get busted for it, mind...

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't despise you all the same.

Toodle-pip, Criminal Clowns!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 04, 2016, 02:25:23 AM
Note to Papa Legba:  Don't read past this point
Why not?
I was just worried about your blood pressure!
Would you care to elaborate?
You, never really elaborate anything - just spew out another memory dump!
Toodle-pip, Criminal Clowns!
I have just realised that way back in another place, after you claimed that I didn't understand it,  I asked you to explain the mass flow ~ pressure difference relationship for the "choked de Laval nozzle" ie when the throat velocity becomes sonic!  You have not yet done that, just fumed and blustered.
If you carefully explain this I might just see why these nozzles fail under some ill-defined conditions - like very low pressure.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 04, 2016, 05:26:52 AM
Would you care to elaborate?

Would you care to remember that I already have?
All I remember is you making a bunch of outlandish claims and then a bunch of shitspam and abuse when asked to elaborate.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 04, 2016, 05:47:21 AM

If you carefully explain this I might just see why these nozzles fail under some ill-defined conditions - like very low pressure.

*Yawn!*

No, you wouldn't; so stop wasting my time.

Obvious derailing troll is obviously derailing.

Oh, look - here's another:

All I remember is you making a bunch of outlandish claims and then a bunch of shitspam and abuse when asked to elaborate.

Yes, yes; that'll be your alzheimers again...

Poor thALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 07, 2016, 11:43:33 AM
You literally answered your own question. Yes he had to go fast because it uses the least fuel

Yes but ... I was wondering. Being a shipbuilder/owner/operator. Liquids in ship tanks reducing stability, etc, etc.

Let's recall - the first stage - after separation - still moves upwards fast due to its momentum - 105 tons mass incl. 55 tons fuel, 1700 m/s velocity. It flips 180° to be able to Boost back burn and is also trimmed to be horizontal using some cold gas jets.

Horizontal?

But how can your spaceship be horizontal in space with 55 tons of fuel sloshing around in almost empty tanks? The fuel will either be at the bottom or top of the tanks and your trim will be 90° or 270°.

The Boost back burn will either be up or down. But not horizontal.

What do you (and Elon) think?

The sloshing, free mass will not trim the first stage?

Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 07, 2016, 01:29:58 PM
You literally answered your own question. Yes he had to go fast because it uses the least fuel

Yes but ... I was wondering. Being a shipbuilder/owner/operator. Liquids in ship tanks reducing stability, etc, etc.

Let's recall - the first stage - after separation - still moves upwards fast due to its momentum - 105 tons mass incl. 55 tons fuel, 1700 m/s velocity. It flips 180° to be able to Boost back burn and is also trimmed to be horizontal using some cold gas jets.

Horizontal?

But how can your spaceship be horizontal in space with 55 tons of fuel sloshing around in almost empty tanks? The fuel will either be at the bottom or top of the tanks and your trim will be 90° or 270°.

The Boost back burn will either be up or down. But not horizontal.

What do you (and Elon) think?

The sloshing, free mass will not trim the first stage?
Being a "shipbuilder/owner/operator", you seem to be limited to 2 dimensional thinking. 
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 07, 2016, 07:09:24 PM
You literally answered your own question. Yes he had to go fast because it uses the least fuel

Yes but ... I was wondering. Being a shipbuilder/owner/operator. Liquids in ship tanks reducing stability, etc, etc.

Let's recall - the first stage - after separation - still moves upwards fast due to its momentum - 105 tons mass incl. 55 tons fuel, 1700 m/s velocity. It flips 180° to be able to Boost back burn and is also trimmed to be horizontal using some cold gas jets.

Horizontal?

But how can your spaceship be horizontal in space with 55 tons of fuel sloshing around in almost empty tanks? The fuel will either be at the bottom or top of the tanks and your trim will be 90° or 270°.

The Boost back burn will either be up or down. But not horizontal.

What do you (and Elon) think?

The sloshing, free mass will not trim the first stage?
Being a "shipbuilder/owner/operator", you seem to be limited to 2 dimensional thinking.

?? My biz is really 3D in the interface water/air on planet Earth and much more complicated than in vacuum space. It happens that seagoing ships lose stability due to internal forces (bad loading) or external forces (bad weather) and the loss takes time and may result in capsize or sinking when lose masses are shifting place.
This SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket (topic) does not appear stable in flight with all that fuel sloshing around in almost empty tanks. So when the Boost Back burns take place Elon cannot be certain that they will be done in the right direction (horizontally back towards land). Thus easier to fake it with a magician's trick - behind a screen.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 07, 2016, 08:10:03 PM
My biz is really 3D in the interface water/air on planet Earth and much more complicated than in vacuum space.
Does your biz include navigating in 3 dimensions?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 07, 2016, 08:16:56 PM
My biz is really 3D in the interface water/air on planet Earth and much more complicated than in vacuum space.
Does your biz include navigating in 3 dimensions?
Of course - actually four - up/down, right/left, forward/aft at different times.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 07, 2016, 08:32:59 PM
My biz is really 3D in the interface water/air on planet Earth and much more complicated than in vacuum space.
Does your biz include navigating in 3 dimensions?
Of course - actually four - up/down, right/left, forward/aft at different times.
Up/down?  Are you a submariner or do your ships sink a lot?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 07, 2016, 11:04:42 PM
My biz is really 3D in the interface water/air on planet Earth and much more complicated than in vacuum space.
Does your biz include navigating in 3 dimensions?
Of course - actually four - up/down, right/left, forward/aft at different times.
Up/down?  Are you a submariner or do your ships sink a lot?
Neither - the sea is not flat. Why do you make such stupid, off topic comments?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 08, 2016, 01:02:24 AM
If you carefully explain this I might just see why these nozzles fail under some ill-defined conditions - like very low pressure.
*Yawn!*
Still completely unable to answer the simplest question!  What a loser - maybe I'll check back next week see if you've worked it out.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 08, 2016, 03:09:09 AM
And, of course, under vacuum conditions it is completely impractical to "optimise" the nozzle - it would need an "infinite" area!

Any more strawmen to post on the wrong thread, geoff?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 08, 2016, 04:57:17 AM
And, of course, under vacuum conditions it is completely impractical to "optimise" the nozzle - it would need an "infinite" area!

Any more strawmen to post on the wrong thread, geoff?
Thanks for this on topic response that makes an intelligent contribution to the thread about something else. :'(
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 08, 2016, 09:16:38 AM
I have already made the most important contribution to this thread (which you did not start btw, Heiwa) with this post:

Oh, & is it just me or did flatorange include the words 'first landing success' in the title of this thread BEFORE the landing had actually happened?

Look at the time of his first post:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")

Yet here he is fifty minutes later:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

LOL!!!

Have the Clown Derfers been playing with their Ouija boards again?

But by all means carry on your pointless little dog & pony show, Mr. Vested Interest...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 08, 2016, 09:21:38 AM
I have already made the most important contribution to this thread (which you did not start btw, Heiwa) with this post:

Oh, & is it just me or did flatorange include the words 'first landing success' in the title of this thread BEFORE the landing had actually happened?

Look at the time of his first post:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ (http://www.spacex.com/webcast/)

An historic event. (always wanted to say "an historic")

Yet here he is fifty minutes later:

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M STILL SHAKING AND MY ARMS ARE TINGLY

LOL!!!

Have the Clown Derfers been playing with their Ouija boards again?

But by all means carry on your pointless little dog & pony show, Mr. Vested Interest...

Thanks for this on topic response that makes an intelligent contribution to the thread about something else.  :'(
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 08, 2016, 09:27:01 AM
But by all means carry on your pointless little dog & pony show, Mr. Vested Interest...
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 08, 2016, 10:34:01 AM
But by all means carry on your pointless little dog & pony show, Mr. Vested Interest...
Umm...  You do realize that Heiwa thinks that the landing was fake too, don't you?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on January 08, 2016, 10:41:20 AM
Heiwa also believes space rockets are real.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on January 08, 2016, 10:57:01 AM
Heiwa also believes unmanned space rockets are real.
Fixed, because he also believes that atmospheric reentry is impossible to survive therefore all manned space missions are fake.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 08, 2016, 11:33:51 AM
Heiwa also believes unmanned space rockets are real.
Fixed, because he also believes that atmospheric reentry is impossible to survive therefore all manned space missions are fake.

Thanks for actually reading what I write at my web site. There are different re-entries with different energy or momentum contents.

1. Coming from the Moon subject to Earth's gravity for a couple of days your arrival speed is >11 000 m/s at 130 000 m altitude almost horizontally and your momentum is enormous. There are no possibilities to stop. NASA suggests heat shields, atmospheric friction, blah, blah. All fantasies.

2. Coming from orbit around Earth at 700 000 m altitude like Gagarin 1961 and then dipping into the atmosphere at 130 000 m altitude with about 7 000 m/s almost horizontal velocity is also impossible - too big momentum.

3. The Falcon 9 stunt - topic - is not really a re-entry from space as you only ascend to 180 000 m altitude, stop there and then drop back from there by gravity - vertically.Simple calculations show that you may have a vertical speed >1 600 m/s, when arriving at say 16 000 m altitude, which means you will hit ground after 10 seconds.  To make a vertical Landing burn and stop vertically in 10 seconds and touch down a 2 m/s speed as suggested by Elon is ... magic. There are other burns too to perform the stunt - horizontal burns - and you cannot carry that fuel with you. But Elon is fun! He invents and does everything himself and I have a good laugh about it. I think he will be bankrupt soon. He is a fraud.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 08, 2016, 10:03:18 PM
Heiwa also believes unmanned space rockets are real.
Fixed, because he also believes that atmospheric reentry is impossible to survive therefore all manned space missions are fake.

Re-fixed.

Now; on with the dog & pony show.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: rabinoz on January 10, 2016, 03:25:49 AM
Now; on with the dog & pony show.
TheEngineer knows how rockets work.   Heiwa knows how rockets work, looks like everyone but guess who knows how rockets work?
You're in trouble everywhere, my heart bleeds!   "Look mummy everybody's out of step except our John!"
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on January 10, 2016, 04:34:28 AM
TheEngineer knows how rockets work.   Heiwa knows how rockets work, looks like everyone but guess who knows how rockets work?
You're in trouble everywhere, my heart bleeds!   "Look mummy everybody's out of step except our John!"

lol wut?
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: sceptimatic on January 10, 2016, 05:21:47 AM
Heiwa also believes unmanned space rockets are real.
Fixed, because he also believes that atmospheric reentry is impossible to survive therefore all manned space missions are fake.
You didn't need to fix anything. I said he believes space rockets are real. I never mentioned manned or unmanned. He simply believes SPACE rockets are real. That's it.
You must be Heiwa's parent or guardian are you? lol
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 13, 2016, 05:53:03 AM
I think he will be bankrupt soon. He is a fraud.

Heiwa, as much as I enjoy your patient parrying of the pathetic punches of perverse perps, these two phrases have no causality in them.

Frauds are very successful throughout history and why would somebody be bankrupt soon? The costs of this magic re-entry trick are very low. Lower than the real thing, if it were physically possible...  ;)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Heiwa on January 13, 2016, 07:25:27 AM
I think he will be bankrupt soon. He is a fraud.

Heiwa, as much as I enjoy your patient parrying of the pathetic punches of perverse perps, these two phrases have no causality in them.

Frauds are very successful throughout history and why would somebody be bankrupt soon? The costs of this magic re-entry trick are very low. Lower than the real thing, if it were physically possible...  ;)

Elon Musk is fun but he deceives and play tricks with his rockets and capsules doing impossible things and it will be his down fall. So one day, I think, a law-court will judge that he is unable to pay his debts, etc. Of course he has friends at NASA and high places but it costs to keep the (magic) show going. Elon's Tesla cars are not making any money and I have a feeling Elon subsidies Tesla losses with SpaceX funds.  Of course there are no audited balance sheets available, etc, and I really don't care.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Gaia_Redonda on January 13, 2016, 06:09:13 PM
I think he will be bankrupt soon. He is a fraud.

Heiwa, as much as I enjoy your patient parrying of the pathetic punches of perverse perps, these two phrases have no causality in them.

Frauds are very successful throughout history and why would somebody be bankrupt soon? The costs of this magic re-entry trick are very low. Lower than the real thing, if it were physically possible...  ;)

Elon Musk is fun but he deceives and play tricks with his rockets and capsules doing impossible things and it will be his down fall. So one day, I think, a law-court will judge that he is unable to pay his debts, etc. Of course he has friends at NASA and high places but it costs to keep the (magic) show going. Elon's Tesla cars are not making any money and I have a feeling Elon subsidies Tesla losses with SpaceX funds.  Of course there are no audited balance sheets available, etc, and I really don't care.

I like the cars he's developed. If he makes money off of them or not.

But as long as the Emperor Without Space Suit is not filed for law suits, never, then why do you think musky Elon would be in an unforseeable future?

I guess he won't get bankrupt. A Photoshop license is not that costly.
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on May 04, 2016, 03:19:33 AM
"Look mummy everybody's out of step except our John!"

Lulz!

Hi, 'Stanton'!
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: markjo on May 06, 2016, 01:20:46 PM
Looks like another successful barge landing.  However, because of the nature of the mission, they weren't expecting a good landing this time.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/late-night-rocketry-spacex-to-try-landing-a-very-hot-and-fast-rocket/ (http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/late-night-rocketry-spacex-to-try-landing-a-very-hot-and-fast-rocket/)
Title: Re: Tune in for SpaceX's return to flight and first landing success
Post by: Papa Legba on May 06, 2016, 11:11:59 PM
Looks like another successful barge landing

29:38: LMFAO!!!