The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: TheEarthIsASphere on November 25, 2015, 11:14:05 AM

Title: Who Gains?
Post by: TheEarthIsASphere on November 25, 2015, 11:14:05 AM
Plenty of conspiracy theories exist to explain away evidence from space agencies: photos, GPS, etc.
These conspiracy theories are abundant, suggesting that governments, companies and space agencies conspire to prevent us from learning the "truth": that the Earth is flat.
But no one has explained why "they" would do this, or how "they" would gain. So I pose to you: who gains from a round earth? Why would they hid a flat earth from us?
Conspiracy theories like "Bush did 9/11" have legitimate, if outlandish, proposals behind them. Bush could have caused 9/11 because he wished to smash Hussein, or to get better control of Middle East oil reserves, however unlikely these are. But I have yet to see a legitimate explanation for WHY people would hide a flat earth. So fill in the blanks:

_________ would gain from a Round Earth because _____________

Can't be that hard, can it?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on November 25, 2015, 11:18:59 AM
who gains from a round earth? Why would they hid a flat earth from us?
They don't, explicitly. The sole conspiracy is a space travel conspiracy; they believe the world is round, so that's the model they present. All they're doing is hiding the fact they can't reach space, for financial gain and saving face (since the cold war, when it was faked for political gain: now no one wants to be the first to admit failure).
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: BBoyJmE on November 25, 2015, 09:20:26 PM
who gains from a round earth? Why would they hid a flat earth from us?
They don't, explicitly. The sole conspiracy is a space travel conspiracy; they believe the world is round, so that's the model they present. All they're doing is hiding the fact they can't reach space, for financial gain and saving face (since the cold war, when it was faked for political gain: now no one wants to be the first to admit failure).

And so they work with their enemies on faking space travel, and fake a ton of shit costing in the trillions of trillions of dollars instead. Nice. Makes plenty of sense.

President A: "Get your aircraft out of my airspace or I'll shoot it down! by the way, are you coming to the Antarctic Treaty? My wife baked wicked cookies.."

President B: "You will not like the outcome if you do! And yes I will, I am keen to try those cookies out, are we going to discuss the budget we have left on faking the ISS Live streams? Perhaps we should just say the ISS cameras are down for good"

There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on November 25, 2015, 11:39:25 PM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on November 26, 2015, 12:48:59 AM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 26, 2015, 03:40:13 AM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.

You should be the conspiracy's financial adviser.  ::)
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on November 26, 2015, 04:50:44 AM

_________ would gain from a Round Earth because _____________

Can't be that hard, can it?


 Science  _________ would gain from a Round Earth because _____________ they control all the keys, and get all the funding. It can be god.

Can't be that hard, can it?   Not hard. Impossible.  Each layer of truth a maze which can not be navigated without outside help.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on November 26, 2015, 05:15:33 AM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.

You should be the conspiracy's financial adviser.  ::)

Maybe I should. I wonder why I have not received a promotion yet.  ::)
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on November 26, 2015, 08:26:03 AM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.
...How?!
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: BJ1234 on November 26, 2015, 07:16:00 PM

BJ1234 would gain from a Round Earth because it pays 25 cents a post.


Honestly, that is over twice as much as the 10 cents a post that the flat earthers pay.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on November 29, 2015, 11:59:11 PM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.
...How?!
How not? Is there something that makes it impossible to increase the military budget by 1%?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on November 30, 2015, 12:14:30 AM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
NASA get more than they lose. Do you really assume it costs the same to get to the moon as it does to build a generic rocket?
Why not increase the american military budget by 1% and take that money instead? No expensive faking required and no one will notice if 1% of the military budget is gone. They'll earn more money this way and greatly reduce the danger of being busted.
...How?!
How not? Is there something that makes it impossible to increase the military budget by 1%?
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on November 30, 2015, 01:21:22 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on November 30, 2015, 01:41:06 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on November 30, 2015, 01:47:48 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on November 30, 2015, 01:57:37 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.

Perhaps, but if say, the bankers conspired to topple the czar, and put in the powers that be, would they not be controlling both sides?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on November 30, 2015, 03:22:30 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: frenat on November 30, 2015, 05:54:59 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
and the fact that JFK only announced the plan to go to the Moon AFTER NASA convinced him it was possible.  It wasn't his idea.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on November 30, 2015, 06:10:31 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
and the fact that JFK only announced the plan to go to the Moon AFTER NASA convinced him it was possible.  It wasn't his idea.

Oh yes.
NASA CONVINCED him? hummmm? This could well be.
And with the best credit rating in the world. The ability to take the biggest loans, and support the largest budget for this exotic adventure. Wonder if they would profit.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: frenat on November 30, 2015, 06:18:31 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
and the fact that JFK only announced the plan to go to the Moon AFTER NASA convinced him it was possible.  It wasn't his idea.

Oh yes.
NASA CONVINCED him? hummmm? This could well be.
And with the best credit rating in the world. The ability to take the biggest loans, and support the largest budget for this exotic adventure. Wonder if they would profit.
doubtful since the majority of the money went to paying subcontractors for making the equipment needed.  NASA doesn't make hardware itself.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on November 30, 2015, 06:29:07 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
and the fact that JFK only announced the plan to go to the Moon AFTER NASA convinced him it was possible.  It wasn't his idea.

Oh yes.
NASA CONVINCED him? hummmm? This could well be.
And with the best credit rating in the world. The ability to take the biggest loans, and support the largest budget for this exotic adventure. Wonder if they would profit.
doubtful since the majority of the money went to paying subcontractors for making the equipment needed.  NASA doesn't make hardware itself.
As this is a thought experiment I will buy that. I would ask if there were any $800 hammers or $2 nails etc.
Who got the extra money?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: frenat on November 30, 2015, 06:30:52 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.
and the fact that JFK only announced the plan to go to the Moon AFTER NASA convinced him it was possible.  It wasn't his idea.

Oh yes.
NASA CONVINCED him? hummmm? This could well be.
And with the best credit rating in the world. The ability to take the biggest loans, and support the largest budget for this exotic adventure. Wonder if they would profit.
doubtful since the majority of the money went to paying subcontractors for making the equipment needed.  NASA doesn't make hardware itself.
As this is a thought experiment I will buy that. I would ask if there were any $800 hammers or $2 nails etc.
Who got the extra money?

You'd have to ask the sub-contractors, Grumman, North American, etc.  I've heard there were multiple audits during the program.  you could start there.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 01, 2015, 01:16:17 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 01, 2015, 01:18:51 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.

Perhaps, but if say, the bankers conspired to topple the czar, and put in the powers that be, would they not be controlling both sides?

Wut? Which bankers? How would bankers be controlling both governments? And as far as I know, bankers did not control any sides. And what czar anyways? This is the late 20th-century.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 01, 2015, 02:03:04 AM
Lets just say J.F.K. decided we needed to win the cold war by proving we could do anything better than the Russians, and that space travel, was in fact, not possible.
So a grand deception is decided to prove we landed men on the moon first.
How could we ever, in our lifetime, come clean and say, Oh sorry, we did that to beat the Russians down?
Just a thought. This is not really my dogma. (Mine is deeper than that)
Except for the fact that the russians both were monitoring the moon, so they knew the americans landed there, and they could just say that space travel was never possible from the beginning. It would hurt america more than russia at that stage.

Perhaps, but if say, the bankers conspired to topple the czar, and put in the powers that be, would they not be controlling both sides?

Wut? Which bankers? How would bankers be controlling both governments? And as far as I know, bankers did not control any sides. And what czar anyways? This is the late 20th-century.

History not a strong point with you eh?
1913 USA establishes Federal Reserve act.
1917 czar Nicholas toppled by socialist Bolsheviks.
50 years is not a even a normal lifetime.
We have central banks, the I.M.F. and world bank.
Resist the central banks and we will open a can of democracy on you punks.
Welcome to the 21st century.
One thing we learn from history, is, we learn nothing from history.
Bet you think the USA is a democracy too.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 01, 2015, 02:48:40 AM
History not a strong point with you eh?
1913 USA establishes Federal Reserve act.
1917 czar Nicholas toppled by socialist Bolsheviks.
50 years is not a even a normal lifetime.
We have central banks, the I.M.F. and world bank.
Resist the central banks and we will open a can of democracy on you punks.
Welcome to the 21st century.
One thing we learn from history, is, we learn nothing from history.
Bet you think the USA is a democracy too.
Who's you to tell me history is not my strong point. 1913? 1917? We are talking 1969 here. With the communist party leader of the leading (and only) party in soviet being Leonid Brehznev. They had no czars then. The communists had already toppled the czar.
And all banks are controlled by national banks, which are indirectly controlled by the governments.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 01, 2015, 04:22:17 AM
History not a strong point with you eh?
1913 USA establishes Federal Reserve act.
1917 czar Nicholas toppled by socialist Bolsheviks.
50 years is not a even a normal lifetime.
We have central banks, the I.M.F. and world bank.
Resist the central banks and we will open a can of democracy on you punks.
Welcome to the 21st century.
One thing we learn from history, is, we learn nothing from history.
Bet you think the USA is a democracy too.
Who's you to tell me history is not my strong point. 1913? 1917? We are talking 1969 here. With the communist party leader of the leading (and only) party in soviet being Leonid Brehznev. They had no czars then. The communists had already toppled the czar.
And all banks are controlled by national banks, which are indirectly controlled by the governments.

I consider this a thought experiment. The question being "Who profits?". I think banks are a viable option.
I do not say you must. As a matter of fact, if all they want is money, that is fine by me. Money does not
buy happiness.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 01, 2015, 04:27:16 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 01, 2015, 04:28:49 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 01, 2015, 04:31:14 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.

Because your questions are irrelevant to what I'm saying, why should I bother with them?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 01, 2015, 04:39:48 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.

Because your questions are irrelevant to what I'm saying, why should I bother with them?

*sigh*

You said that somehow the government is unable to increase the military budget. Why? Why can't the government increase the military budget?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 01, 2015, 09:06:38 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.

Because your questions are irrelevant to what I'm saying, why should I bother with them?

*sigh*

You said that somehow the government is unable to increase the military budget. Why? Why can't the government increase the military budget?

You said that. I'm not talking about the government. how about actually trying to address the argument I'm making, rather than what you'd like?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 02, 2015, 01:32:11 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.

Because your questions are irrelevant to what I'm saying, why should I bother with them?

*sigh*

You said that somehow the government is unable to increase the military budget. Why? Why can't the government increase the military budget?

You said that. I'm not talking about the government. how about actually trying to address the argument I'm making, rather than what you'd like?

So you really did mean that NASA alone are the fakers. So, how do they get money? As I asked earlier, which is VERY relevant:
Quote
Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 02, 2015, 06:22:25 AM
Well, yeah, if you're not the government agency in charge of budget. What the hell are you talking about?!
Isn't it the government itself which were faking everything, and funded NASA as a medium for the faking? How else would NASA get funding anyways, if it's all faked by NASA only without cooperation by the government?
That doesn't even make sense.
It doesn't make sense that NASA is funded by the government? Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

Read what I'm saying, your assertions are starting to feel more and pathetic. Is all you have straw men?

I have read what you are saying. However, your fantasies and opinions do not count as fact, and they do not answer my question.

Because your questions are irrelevant to what I'm saying, why should I bother with them?

*sigh*

You said that somehow the government is unable to increase the military budget. Why? Why can't the government increase the military budget?

You said that. I'm not talking about the government. how about actually trying to address the argument I'm making, rather than what you'd like?

So you really did mean that NASA alone are the fakers. So, how do they get money? As I asked earlier, which is VERY relevant:
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Doesn't it make sense that the government would check wether NASA was a fraud or not before they decided to fund it? Doesn't it then make sense that if it was all fake, the government would have to be in on it? Sorry if your magical dreams where NASA steals our money from the government simply by existing conflicts with reality, but we are discussing reality here, not dreams and magic.

And that still makes no sense whatsoever. Let me know when Obama's straddling a satellite.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 02, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
And that still makes no sense whatsoever. Let me know when Obama's straddling a satellite.

So you are too stupid to understand how conspiracies work? Otherwise, you have to point out what doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 02, 2015, 09:48:39 AM
And that still makes no sense whatsoever. Let me know when Obama's straddling a satellite.

So you are too stupid to understand how conspiracies work? Otherwise, you have to point out what doesn't make sense.
You're the one supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. Please tell me how exactly the government would have any more means than the rest of us to tell what NASA and similar space agencies are doing. A few stated results, a few faked pictures, and when it started who'd look that hard at something that gave them a leg up on the Soviets?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 02, 2015, 10:10:52 AM
You're the one supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. Please tell me how exactly the government would have any more means than the rest of us to tell what NASA and similar space agencies are doing. A few stated results, a few faked pictures, and when it started who'd look that hard at something that gave them a leg up on the Soviets?

I am not supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. I answered to someone else who (according to you) did. Don't join the conversation if you don't know what is being discussed.
Also, NSA? CIA? The government has far better means of examining NASA than the public does.
And lastly, you are ignorant. The soviets would just tell the world that the US faked it if it was faked. The soviet very well knew that it was legit.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 02, 2015, 10:40:12 AM
You're the one supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. Please tell me how exactly the government would have any more means than the rest of us to tell what NASA and similar space agencies are doing. A few stated results, a few faked pictures, and when it started who'd look that hard at something that gave them a leg up on the Soviets?

I am not supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. I answered to someone else who (according to you) did. Don't join the conversation if you don't know what is being discussed.
Also, NSA? CIA? The government has far better means of examining NASA than the public does.
And lastly, you are ignorant. The soviets would just tell the world that the US faked it if it was faked. The soviet very well knew that it was legit.

What? We've been having a discussion independently of anyone else. Keep up. What are you talking about?!
How would those organizations conclude that space travel doesn't occur? Find me an NSA operative who's been to space.
The Soviets wouldn't throw the accusation as it would mean they'd have to out their own lie; and the US wouldn't have thrown it because they couldn't have known for certain. We've reached the stage where the lie sustains itself.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 02, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
You're the one supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. Please tell me how exactly the government would have any more means than the rest of us to tell what NASA and similar space agencies are doing. A few stated results, a few faked pictures, and when it started who'd look that hard at something that gave them a leg up on the Soviets?

I am not supposing a ridiculously large conspiracy. I answered to someone else who (according to you) did. Don't join the conversation if you don't know what is being discussed.
Also, NSA? CIA? The government has far better means of examining NASA than the public does.
And lastly, you are ignorant. The soviets would just tell the world that the US faked it if it was faked. The soviet very well knew that it was legit.

What? We've been having a discussion independently of anyone else. Keep up. What are you talking about?!
How would those organizations conclude that space travel doesn't occur? Find me an NSA operative who's been to space.
The Soviets wouldn't throw the accusation as it would mean they'd have to out their own lie; and the US wouldn't have thrown it because they couldn't have known for certain. We've reached the stage where the lie sustains itself.
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
So independently.
They don't have to be to space. They just have to check the rocket building process, rocket testing, rocket launches and use their own comms to verify that there are objects in space. Also, it's not just space travel. It's the whole "earth is round" thing as well. If NASA faked that I am pretty sure those agencies would immediately figure out if it was a fraud or not. Radar systems, which I presume the NSA does some work with, uses the geometry of the landscape and the position of the radar to determine ranges for stationary radars. Earth curvature is would be part of the geometry, if the earth is round, which it is.
And it wouldn't really hurt soviet so much to say that space travel is fake. It would hurt the US far more at that point.
Also, I googled for "NSA Astronauts" and there MIGHT actually have been an NSA astronaut (at least), it's hard to know because of all the conspiracy theories (about secret alien life etc.).
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 02, 2015, 12:32:57 PM
There is no gain - the only people would gain any money are globe map companies :S NASA and all the governments spend the trillions so that your local news agency can sell you a globe of the earth.
So independently.
You mean the REer I disagreed with? Are you even trying?

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They don't have to be to space. They just have to check the rocket building process, rocket testing, rocket launches and use their own comms to verify that there are objects in space.
Because rocket science is simple enough for any disinterested person who pops by and who isn't concerned with the physics to spot.Really?

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Also, it's not just space travel. It's the whole "earth is round" thing as well. If NASA faked that I am pretty sure those agencies would immediately figure out if it was a fraud or not. Radar systems, which I presume the NSA does some work with, uses the geometry of the landscape and the position of the radar to determine ranges for stationary radars. Earth curvature is would be part of the geometry, if the earth is round, which it is.
Margin or error. People use Mercator to navigate, is that accurate? They don't spot the errors because they're too minor to deal with; the error bars that occur from the issues of travelling (wind currents knocking a plane off course, for example) are just smaller.
You're not doing anything but asserting the accuracy of RET.

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And it wouldn't really hurt soviet so much to say that space travel is fake. It would hurt the US far more at that point.
How do you know? Would you have taken the risk, in the cold war?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 02, 2015, 09:47:52 PM
You mean the REer I disagreed with? Are you even trying?
You didn't disagree to their version of the conspiracy, so I could assume it was the "right" version.

Because rocket science is simple enough for any disinterested person who pops by and who isn't concerned with the physics to spot.Really?
You think they send untrained low-level of education folks with no degree in physics there? Really?

Margin or error. People use Mercator to navigate, is that accurate? They don't spot the errors because they're too minor to deal with; the error bars that occur from the issues of travelling (wind currents knocking a plane off course, for example) are just smaller.
You're not doing anything but asserting the accuracy of RET.
A bit of a lie. People uses GPS to navigate. IF they are using the mercator to navigate, they also probably use the handy equations used to calculate the distortion of the mercator so that they know their actual position and the actual distances. Or they use many smaller maps.

How do you know? Would you have taken the risk, in the cold war?
Yup. Soviet was the losers and US was the heroes. They could have either said:
- The US didn't land on the moon at all, because our radars didn't find them. (Their radars worked, they had sent probes to orbit the moon before returning, and this would completely destroy the fame the US just got. At this point, the US can either admit that space travel all together is impossible, say that space travel to the moon is impossible, or just suck it up. Neither case would hurt the soviets too much except the first one, as the soviets got the first probe and human in space. The soviet wouldn't be considered losers anymore, but the scum that they were considered as anyways by the US.)
- That space travel to the moon is impossible. (And then follows the same options from the US as earlier stated, and consequences.)
- That space travel all together is impossible. (Read above for consequences.)

In all cases the US would loose far more fame than the soviets, but this is no reason to start a nuclear war.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 03, 2015, 01:29:42 PM
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You didn't disagree to their version of the conspiracy, so I could assume it was the "right" version.
Well, beyond explicitly disagreeing with what they said, sure... Could you please try to make an honest argument for ocne? Dealing with you is just pathetic.

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You think they send untrained low-level of education folks with no degree in physics there? Really?
Why would the NSA hire a physicist??!

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A bit of a lie. People uses GPS to navigate.
Always? Really? Are you paying attention to the arguemnt or quibbling over irrelevant details? Oh, wait, you're you.

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In all cases the US would loose far more fame than the soviets, but this is no reason to start a nuclear war.
So, just ignoring what I've said. Great, sure, not like I expect anything more.
If the Soviets showed the moon landing was faked, America could respond by showing that space travel was faked. As the originators, the Soviets would face just as much censure. There's no gain outside your ridiculously addled mind: and whatever minimal benefit they might get would be overshadowed by risk.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 03, 2015, 11:19:43 PM
Well, beyond explicitly disagreeing with what they said, sure... Could you please try to make an honest argument for ocne? Dealing with you is just pathetic.
What they claimed, not the base for their claims. It was in no way clear that you disagreed with the model of the conspiracy.

Why would the NSA hire a physicist??!
Why can't NSA employees have an education in physics? They most probably have at least some people with advanced knowledge in physics, so they know what it is they are listening in on when intercepting calls etc.

Always? Really? Are you paying attention to the arguemnt or quibbling over irrelevant details? Oh, wait, you're you.
*Facepalm*
Cherrypicking one piece of a whole statement is pure dishonesty:
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A bit of a lie. People uses GPS to navigate. IF they are using the mercator to navigate, they also probably use the handy equations used to calculate the distortion of the mercator so that they know their actual position and the actual distances. Or they use many smaller maps.

So, just ignoring what I've said. Great, sure, not like I expect anything more.
If the Soviets showed the moon landing was faked, America could respond by showing that space travel was faked. As the originators, the Soviets would face just as much censure. There's no gain outside your ridiculously addled mind: and whatever minimal benefit they might get would be overshadowed by risk.
Except that the soviets actually managed to transmit a signal to the US from their probe. The US government and the public has no other explanation for it. The Soviets COULD have faked it somehow, but the US government and the public wouldn't know that.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 04, 2015, 06:02:47 AM
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What they claimed, not the base for their claims. It was in no way clear that you disagreed with the model of the conspiracy.
Despite repeatedly telling you otherwise and the fact I in no way gave any impression whatsoever that I agreed with that, but sure, why should I expect honesty from you?

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Why can't NSA employees have an education in physics? They most probably have at least some people with advanced knowledge in physics, so they know what it is they are listening in on when intercepting calls etc.
Because fighting terrorism requires knowledge of rocket science. What the hell are you on about?!

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Cherrypicking one piece of a whole statement is pure dishonesty:
I addressed the only part of the statement that was relevant. You hedged the rest and asserted, and no one I know brings a calculator and set of equations along with a map, so that part was clearly relevant only to the GPS case I addressed. Picking a representative part of your message is not dishonesty, how about you try to be honest?

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Except that the soviets actually managed to transmit a signal to the US from their probe. The US government and the public has no other explanation for it. The Soviets COULD have faked it somehow, but the US government and the public wouldn't know that.
They sent a signal. Wow. The US managed photos, why does one end up magically immune to censure? Honest arguments please, not assertion based on trying to force a specific nonsensical conclusion.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Teutarch on December 04, 2015, 07:45:00 AM
Jrowe

if this is a nasa conspiracy what about all the military hardware in space, its not all made by nasa.

The fact that radar and other communications systems factor into the curvature of the earth - not made by nasa

the maps used by the navy and army which use a spherical projection.

If the goverment isn't in on it they would have known.

The earth was believed to be round by the practically the entire population of it before NASA came along.

This clearly can't be a Nasa created conspiracy, and if its not, whats in it for them to continue it?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 04, 2015, 07:47:51 AM
Despite repeatedly telling you otherwise and the fact I in no way gave any impression whatsoever that I agreed with that, but sure, why should I expect honesty from you?
NOW afterwards I have been repeatedly told that you disagree with that model. I just assumed you followed the model which was generally being discussed here, that the government is behind it with NASA as their decoy.

Because fighting terrorism requires knowledge of rocket science. What the hell are you on about?!
Good point! They need to know rocketry (and rocket science) so that they know if the people they are listening in on are talking about rocket parts and fuels etc. You know, if some terrorists plan to use rockets or missiles to bomb stuff, or if any other country does.

I addressed the only part of the statement that was relevant. You hedged the rest and asserted, and no one I know brings a calculator and set of equations along with a map, so that part was clearly relevant only to the GPS case I addressed. Picking a representative part of your message is not dishonesty, how about you try to be honest?
EXCEPT that the whole statement was relevant, or otherwise the part you cherry picked would be what is called "out of context". Normal people understands context, but you seem to struggle with it way more than anyone should.

They sent a signal. Wow. The US managed photos, why does one end up magically immune to censure? Honest arguments please, not assertion based on trying to force a specific nonsensical conclusion.
So people can't believe that the photos are faked? Also, if space travel is impossible the pics have to be faked, so people of the public with good enough photo-editing skills could reveal the fakery. Another reason the US wouldn't want to admit space travel is faked. Easier to prove a faked picture to be faked than a faked signal which was definitely heard all throughout the US without any soviets in the airspace and without any soviet transmitters in most parts of the US to be faked.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 04, 2015, 09:02:59 AM
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if this is a nasa conspiracy what about all the military hardware in space, its not all made by nasa.
Assertion that it's in space.

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The fact that radar and other communications systems factor into the curvature of the earth - not made by nasa
the maps used by the navy and army which use a spherical projection.
So? That doesn't make them accurate, they're just within error bars. That's trivial.

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Good point! They need to know rocketry (and rocket science) so that they know if the people they are listening in on are talking about rocket parts and fuels etc. You know, if some terrorists plan to use rockets or missiles to bomb stuff, or if any other country does.
Let me know when a terrorist plot goes to space. Focus on more than semantics.

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EXCEPT that the whole statement was relevant, or otherwise the part you cherry picked would be what is called "out of context". Normal people understands context, but you seem to struggle with it way more than anyone should.
Yet again, I picked a representative part of your quote. Read rather than repeating the bullshit you'd like to be true. You're the one who apparently struggles with context: I picked the section which would allow me to make a clearer reply. It was relevant to the rest of the quote, because the part I quoted was representative. READ YOU FUCKING MORON.

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So people can't believe that the photos are faked? Also, if space travel is impossible the pics have to be faked, so people of the public with good enough photo-editing skills could reveal the fakery. Another reason the US wouldn't want to admit space travel is faked. Easier to prove a faked picture to be faked than a faked signal which was definitely heard all throughout the US without any soviets in the airspace and without any soviet transmitters in most parts of the US to be faked.
So people can't believe a signal was faked?
How about you pay attention to what we're actually talking about rather than relying on a pathetic double standard. Are you going to justify your claims, or just assert them?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 04, 2015, 10:28:59 AM
Let me know when a terrorist plot goes to space. Focus on more than semantics.
I never said that they needed to go to space. Rockets and missiles can be used within the atmosphere, you know? Actually, that whole counter was stupid. Don't you know what a rocket/missile is?

Yet again, I picked a representative part of your quote. Read rather than repeating the bullshit you'd like to be true. You're the one who apparently struggles with context: I picked the section which would allow me to make a clearer reply. It was relevant to the rest of the quote, because the part I quoted was representative. READ YOU FUCKING MORON.
No, you picked the part which would be out of context. I never stated that people only ever use GPS. I said people use GPS, and the latter statement which you left out acknowledges that the mercator can be used, but only correctly if you have the equations required to calculate the errors that comes with projecting a globe onto a plane.

So people can't believe a signal was faked?
How about you pay attention to what we're actually talking about rather than relying on a pathetic double standard. Are you going to justify your claims, or just assert them?
What is more likely? That an american photo that NASA took is fake, or that a signal you could hear yourself and could verify didn't come from a russian transmitter within the atmosphere is fake? Actually, quoting what you said:
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READ YOU FUCKING MORON.
As you obviously did not.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 04, 2015, 10:38:15 AM
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I never said that they needed to go to space. Rockets and missiles can be used within the atmosphere, you know? Actually, that whole counter was stupid. Don't you know what a rocket/missile is?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were staying on topic.

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No, you picked the part which would be out of context. I never stated that people only ever use GPS. I said people use GPS, and the latter statement which you left out acknowledges that the mercator can be used, but only correctly if you have the equations required to calculate the errors that comes with projecting a globe onto a plane.
You stated that people didn't only ever use GPS, and followed with examples primarily based on GPS: take those equations you mentioned. Do you think people wander around with maps and calculators and a list of equations, or do they just use the map?
Look at that, you just ignored what I said.

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What is more likely? That an american photo that NASA took is fake, or that a signal you could hear yourself and could verify didn't come from a russian transmitter within the atmosphere is fake?
Pray tell, how exactly would you verify the signal didn't come from a Russian transmitter in the atmosphere? I called you out on your assertions before.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 06, 2015, 11:53:46 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were staying on topic.
I literally lol'd at this stupidity. I am obviously staying on topic. How does the topic change just because rockets can be used in the atmosphere as weapons?

You stated that people didn't only ever use GPS, and followed with examples primarily based on GPS: take those equations you mentioned. Do you think people wander around with maps and calculators and a list of equations, or do they just use the map?
Look at that, you just ignored what I said.
I stated that people didn't only ever use GPS, yup. They don't only ever use GPS, so why did you claim I stated that earlier?
Also, what example are you talking about? I didn't give you any examples, so you are lying. So honest of you  ;). And do YOU think people would wander around with a whole mercator projection just to take a small trip? No, the mercator would be used for intercontinental trips, on boats and planes. Such trips are plotted in advance, using the simple equations.
Also, can you quote what I ignored?

Pray tell, how exactly would you verify the signal didn't come from a Russian transmitter in the atmosphere? I called you out on your assertions before.
How would the russians manage to repeatedly get a transmitter capable of transmitting over most of the US without said transmitter being found? Stealth jets would have been detected, as there would have to be multiple ones at a time.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 07, 2015, 06:28:42 AM
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I literally lol'd at this stupidity. I am obviously staying on topic. How does the topic change just because rockets can be used in the atmosphere as weapons?
What the fuck are you on about? We're discussing space travel, moron, why are you whining about terrestrial events?

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I stated that people didn't only ever use GPS, yup. They don't only ever use GPS, so why did you claim I stated that earlier?
Read you pathetic penguin, why is it so hard to get any honest argument from you? Your arguments relied on people only using GPS. Even if you stated otherwise, your arguments relied on GPS being universal.

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Also, what example are you talking about? I didn't give you any examples, so you are lying.
"IF they are using the mercator to navigate, they also probably use the handy equations used to calculate the distortion of the mercator so that they know their actual position and the actual distances. Or they use many smaller maps."
Grow the fuck up.

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No, the mercator would be used for intercontinental trips, on boats and planes. Such trips are plotted in advance, using the simple equations.
And still ignoring the fact any errors on such long journeys would automatically be corrected for, and put down to wind currents and pilot error, so nope, still no more than assertion.

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Also, can you quote what I ignored?
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I addressed the only part of the statement that was relevant. You hedged the rest and asserted, and no one I know brings a calculator and set of equations along with a map, so that part was clearly relevant only to the GPS case I addressed. Picking a representative part of your message is not dishonesty, how about you try to be honest?
Every fucking word, as ever.

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How would the russians manage to repeatedly get a transmitter capable of transmitting over most of the US without said transmitter being found? Stealth jets would have been detected, as there would have to be multiple ones at a time.
Then use passenger jets. Hardly difficult to sneak a transmitter on board. Even assuming your claim is true: if it was so easy to detect stealth jets, they wouldn't exist.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 07, 2015, 09:52:12 PM
What the fuck are you on about? We're discussing space travel, moron, why are you whining about terrestrial events?
Wrong, idiot. We are discussing who, why and how anyone would gain what from telling people that the earth is round, if it is in fact flat. You gotta keep up with the discussion.

Read you pathetic penguin, why is it so hard to get any honest argument from you? Your arguments relied on people only using GPS. Even if you stated otherwise, your arguments relied on GPS being universal.
No, my arguments did not, as I have multiple times explicitly expressed. Can't you remember ANYTHING?
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No, you picked the part which would be out of context. I never stated that people only ever use GPS. I said people use GPS, and the latter statement which you left out acknowledges that the mercator can be used, but only correctly if you have the equations required to calculate the errors that comes with projecting a globe onto a plane.
See? I can't see the claim "people only ever use GPS" in there anywhere. So yeah, you're directly lying.

"IF they are using the mercator to navigate, they also probably use the handy equations used to calculate the distortion of the mercator so that they know their actual position and the actual distances. Or they use many smaller maps."
Grow the fuck up.
Ehm? I asked for an EXAMPLE and you quoted a STATEMENT. Do you not know the difference between a statement and an example? I guess this is further evidence you do not know how to debate.

And still ignoring the fact any errors on such long journeys would automatically be corrected for, and put down to wind currents and pilot error, so nope, still no more than assertion.
Yeah, if the trip is pre-plotted then all the errors will be corrected for. I do not see the problem, at all.

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I addressed the only part of the statement that was relevant. You hedged the rest and asserted, and no one I know brings a calculator and set of equations along with a map, so that part was clearly relevant only to the GPS case I addressed. Picking a representative part of your message is not dishonesty, how about you try to be honest?
Every fucking word, as ever.
Except for the fact that I SPECIFICALLY answered to that one:
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EXCEPT that the whole statement was relevant, or otherwise the part you cherry picked would be what is called "out of context". Normal people understands context, but you seem to struggle with it way more than anyone should.
Just how much of a liar are you? Are you even trying at this point?

Then use passenger jets. Hardly difficult to sneak a transmitter on board. Even assuming your claim is true: if it was so easy to detect stealth jets, they wouldn't exist.
Yes, because soviet citizens where allowed to fly to the US however they pleased, both by the soviet government and the US government, and somehow all the flights over the US that day matched perfectly so that the signal could be heard at the same time all over the US.  ::)
Sorry, but this is madness. It ain't gonna work in reality this way, not with the cold war and everything.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 08, 2015, 08:33:11 AM
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Wrong, idiot. We are discussing who, why and how anyone would gain what from telling people that the earth is round, if it is in fact flat. You gotta keep up with the discussion.
So, another straw man. I've never claimed a flat Earth conspiracy, merely a space travel one. keep up.

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See? I can't see the claim "people only ever use GPS" in there anywhere. So yeah, you're directly lying.
Nope, you're ignoring eveyrthing I've said. You don't need to mention GPS to be relying on it suse. When you can address what I'm actually saying, try again. For example, " the mercator can be used, but only correctly if you have the equations required to calculate the errors that comes with projecting a globe onto a plane," how is that typically done?

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Ehm? I asked for an EXAMPLE and you quoted a STATEMENT. Do you not know the difference between a statement and an example? I guess this is further evidence you do not know how to debate.
So, semantics and whinging, same as ever. A statement of an example: one possible situation.

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Yeah, if the trip is pre-plotted then all the errors will be corrected for. I do not see the problem, at all.
Errors can't be corrected for beforehand: if they could be, there wouldn't be error.

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Except for the fact that I SPECIFICALLY answered to that one:
And it was shown to be bullshit, keep up.

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Yes, because soviet citizens where allowed to fly to the US however they pleased, both by the soviet government and the US government, and somehow all the flights over the US that day matched perfectly so that the signal could be heard at the same time all over the US.  ::)
Sorry, but this is madness. It ain't gonna work in reality this way, not with the cold war and everything.
Because  there's no possible way to get onto a passenger jet under false pretences, even if that was the only possible course of action.
Why would flights need to match up? Just a matter of a strong enough signal over enough space. And for that matter, why would that be at all unusual? It only needs to happen on one day: any agency with any ability to plan whatsoever would choose the day what they're trying to do is possible.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Master_Evar on December 09, 2015, 01:19:27 AM
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Wrong, idiot. We are discussing who, why and how anyone would gain what from telling people that the earth is round, if it is in fact flat. You gotta keep up with the discussion.
So, another straw man. I've never claimed a flat Earth conspiracy, merely a space travel one. keep up.

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See? I can't see the claim "people only ever use GPS" in there anywhere. So yeah, you're directly lying.
Nope, you're ignoring eveyrthing I've said. You don't need to mention GPS to be relying on it suse. When you can address what I'm actually saying, try again. For example, " the mercator can be used, but only correctly if you have the equations required to calculate the errors that comes with projecting a globe onto a plane," how is that typically done?

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Ehm? I asked for an EXAMPLE and you quoted a STATEMENT. Do you not know the difference between a statement and an example? I guess this is further evidence you do not know how to debate.
So, semantics and whinging, same as ever. A statement of an example: one possible situation.

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Yeah, if the trip is pre-plotted then all the errors will be corrected for. I do not see the problem, at all.
Errors can't be corrected for beforehand: if they could be, there wouldn't be error.

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Except for the fact that I SPECIFICALLY answered to that one:
And it was shown to be bullshit, keep up.

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Yes, because soviet citizens where allowed to fly to the US however they pleased, both by the soviet government and the US government, and somehow all the flights over the US that day matched perfectly so that the signal could be heard at the same time all over the US.  ::)
Sorry, but this is madness. It ain't gonna work in reality this way, not with the cold war and everything.
Because  there's no possible way to get onto a passenger jet under false pretences, even if that was the only possible course of action.
Why would flights need to match up? Just a matter of a strong enough signal over enough space. And for that matter, why would that be at all unusual? It only needs to happen on one day: any agency with any ability to plan whatsoever would choose the day what they're trying to do is possible.

Ahh, so you are off-topic. Sorry, but the topic of the thread is how anyone would gain from a round earth conspiracy, not a space travel conspiracy. Can you please get on-topic or stop posting.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on December 09, 2015, 06:04:24 AM
Ahh, so you are off-topic. Sorry, but the topic of the thread is how anyone would gain from a round earth conspiracy, not a space travel conspiracy. Can you please get on-topic or stop posting.
So, all you have to offer is a straw man of FET, and when you get called out on it, and can't address an actual model, you evade and hide behind the fact you rely on a model only the trolls hold.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Motive+of+the+Conspiracy (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Motive+of+the+Conspiracy)
Title: Satanists
Post by: Charming Anarchist on December 10, 2015, 10:32:57 PM
But no one has explained why "they" would do this, or how "they" would gain. So I pose to you: who gains from a round earth?
Satan gains. 

Why would they hid a flat earth from us?
--- because such knowledge coupled with the fact that such knowledge was documented in the bible suggests divine intervention between man and an omniscient being a long time ago. 

Can't be that hard, can it?
Did Enoch have a telescope?

Unless the ancient prophets had telescope technology, they discovered the true form of the earth some other way.  How else but through divine revelation?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 11, 2015, 12:58:29 PM
Can i get an amen.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Charming Anarchist on December 11, 2015, 04:26:47 PM
Can i get an amen.
Sure. 

The ancient accounts of the true form of the earth prove that God exists and communicated with man.  There is no other physical way in which lowly man could possibly know. 

This explains the neurotic vehemence and persistence of the shills.  They are possessed by the devil. 
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 11, 2015, 04:36:17 PM
Can i get an amen.
Sure. 

The ancient accounts of the true form of the earth prove that God exists and communicated with man.  There is no other physical way in which lowly man could possibly know. 

This explains the neurotic vehemence and persistence of the shills.  They are possessed by the devil.

Or one of his faith legion of demons. Finally someone who cuts to the chase.
This was, is, and shall be, till the end of this eon, the way it is. Everything else is just banter fodder.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: wonkaswilly12 on December 11, 2015, 04:41:38 PM
I actually don't understand how knowing the shape of the earth changes anything. Infact, 99% of people don't care, so It is doing nothing to actually change it. BTW, all your religious mumbo-jumbo makes no sense. If the devil did posses us, wouldn't he want to lie about something bigger? Like, space even existing? Or the meaning of life? It actually makes ZERO sense. None.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 11, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
I actually don't understand how knowing the shape of the earth changes anything. Infact, 99% of people don't care, so It is doing nothing to actually change it. BTW, all your religious mumbo-jumbo makes no sense. If the devil did posses us, wouldn't he want to lie about something bigger? Like, space even existing? Or the meaning of life? It actually makes ZERO sense. None.

Space does not exist.
Even if faith was just a way to comfort myself, it is fully worth the price. I love everything and everyone.
I believe i shall transcend this existence. So i really don't care, or better, i am not afraid, of them trying to take over this place. They can have it. I will spread love and peace as long as i can. Than i hope someone else will pick up where i left off.
Why is that a problem?
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Charming Anarchist on December 15, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
I actually don't understand how knowing the shape of the earth changes anything.
I actually do not understand how people could go to such great efforts to lie about it either.
Title: Re: Who Gains?
Post by: Frank Lee on December 16, 2015, 01:32:33 AM
I actually don't understand how knowing the shape of the earth changes anything.
I actually do not understand how people could go to such great efforts to lie about it either.

It seems there is very little effort involved. It is like it has become a self sustaining lie. With TV, Movies and Sports to distract us, The TV, Movie influence is programming us. That's why they call it TV Programming.
We have become quite the consumer based animal. (Not all of course) I do not deny that some of the conspiracies simply come for a rebellion to the corruption of the powers over us. (If one thing is a lie, all is a lie)
It becomes quite convoluted logic. To each their own.  We all make our own little reality in a sense.
I think the truth dwells beyond this "plane" of reality.