The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: chtwrone on October 30, 2015, 12:21:33 AM

Title: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: chtwrone on October 30, 2015, 12:21:33 AM
There seems to be a lot of ignorant debate concerning HUGE flight times between Australia and South America.

But really there is nothing unusual about these flight at all.

I have seen quite a bit of rubbish concerning direct flights routing via North America?

WTF would these direct flights need to route this way?

The 3 pictures below illustrate exactly how these flights route, and it's usually either via overhead New Zealand or south of, depending on the direction of the upper winds, and best routing to avoid any headwinds.

As an air traffic controller in Christchurch, New Zealand, I have a direct knowledge of the routing that these flights take, and to provide actual backup to these routings, I have taken 2 screenshots from the Flightradar24 website that monitors and displays controlled flights around the world. The screenshots are that of a direct Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia flight, QANTAS 28, which took place around a week ago.

As the most direct route is overhead Christchurch, I have personally witnessed this flight on many occasions, travelling in either direction, dependant on departure point and destination.

The route is a curved line, due to the display of the 3D flight path onto a 2D world map.

The 3rd picture is from Google Earth, and illustrates how this 2D curved route, would actually appear as a straight line on the 3D globe.


(http://s23.postimg.org/3ohok8zjf/QF28.png)

(http://s17.postimg.org/i108kkkun/MID_TASMAN.png)

(http://s21.postimg.org/9anutiybb/ball.png)


Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Jadyyn on November 03, 2015, 08:31:31 AM
When presented with reality, no replies?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Jargon on November 19, 2015, 02:44:46 AM
I know this thread is a few weeks old, but the subject is directly related to my question, so I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since you're an air traffic controller (OP), maybe you can shed some light on what I'm missing here.

The flight path you just outlined above would not work on the flat earth map, obviously, without taking a huge detour. At least not with the current flat earth models. In fact, I believe that flight path is strong evidence (if not a proof) of a globe earth.

What I'm currently struggling to find an answer to is why it appears that there are no flights that go directly over Antarctica, despite the fact that in some cases a flight directly over Antarctica would be the shortest possible flight. If the flights do exist, I can't find any.

The most-obvious path for this example I think would be Western Australia to southeast South America. The largest international airports, if I'm not mistaken, in each of those continents are Perth, Australia (PER) and Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE). If we search for a direct flight from PER to EZE, it would look like this, going directly over the center of Antarctica. This flight below, I believe is only theoretical since I could not find any actual flights like this. This flight, if it exists, would be about 7800 miles (6800 nautical miles) and last about 15.25 hours.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/f2fe2e8b-879d-4edc-bb93-5c71cf7a192e_zpsyycbuqzw.png)

On a globe, it would be more-or-less like this.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/04276275-668c-46c1-8c14-5f7a39ac730c_zpshpvhnuv8.png)

The problem is, it seems no flights ever go over Antarctica this way. I tried searching for any flights that go from anywhere in Western Australia to anywhere in South America. All flights either go to South Africa first, or to Eastern Australia first before flying to South America. Some flights from Eastern Australia to South America do fly over Antarctica, but only the edges, which of course would still be possible on a flat earth map.

This doesn't prove that the earth if flat, obviously. But to me it just raises suspicion. Actually, if one could confirm that there are flights that take this route over the South Pole, it would prove that the earth is a globe, right? But I think the actual, defined polar routes (as in the image below, from Wiki) agree with the my search that no flights ever go over the center of Antarctica.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/91c04e3e-1315-47f2-9d15-7dcce2e84309_zps1hd3hssn.png)
 
The flight path's shown above are possible on a flat earth map, although it would require you to essentially fly around the outer edge of the earth, which would not be the fastest route.

This problem does not exist on the North Pole, however. There are plenty of flights that regularly go right over the Arctic center and in fact. The flight from Los Angeles (LAX) to Dubai (DXB) takes this flight of 8300 miles (7200 nautical miles) and lasts over 16 hours.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/5bd1cebc-110c-49b7-b854-d2bca1048023_zpsvszcurij.png)

And there are plenty of other "polar routes" that go right over the pole.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/4b83861f-e83d-40d9-b8ee-f9e3e417eaec_zpsfmnriubv.png)

So the question is: Why? Why do no flights go over the center of Antarctica? It's suspicious that going over the North Pole is common, but going over the South Pole seems non-existent, and it seems unlikely that there would be no demand to fly directly from WA to South America. And if there are flights that do, why is the flat earth debate even a thing?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Soulblood on November 19, 2015, 03:55:58 AM
The FAA's Guidance for Polar Operations (March 5, 2001) outlines a number of special requirements for polar flight, which includes two cold-weather suits, special communication capability, designation of diversion airports (especially difficult down there) and firm recovery plans for stranded passengers (even more difficult), fuel freeze strategy (not easy either) and monitoring requirements.

North polar routes are generally shorter and closer to civilization while the Antarctic Treaty adds further preservation and safety concerns.

And that's why there are no scheduled flights across the Antarctic.

By the way, a one week trip from Chile to the South Pole and back costs only 47.200 $ (there are still spots for the one starting December 13th) ... or you can pay 128.000 $ for a 40 day ski expedition to the south pole (but you might need to hurry, it starts in about a week).

http://www.icetrek.com/south-pole-and-antarctica.html#dates-prices (http://www.icetrek.com/south-pole-and-antarctica.html#dates-prices)
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: juntjoo on November 20, 2017, 02:52:52 PM
I know this thread is a few weeks old, but the subject is directly related to my question, so I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since you're an air traffic controller (OP), maybe you can shed some light on what I'm missing here.

The flight path you just outlined above would not work on the flat earth map, obviously, without taking a huge detour. At least not with the current flat earth models. In fact, I believe that flight path is strong evidence (if not a proof) of a globe earth.

What I'm currently struggling to find an answer to is why it appears that there are no flights that go directly over Antarctica, despite the fact that in some cases a flight directly over Antarctica would be the shortest possible flight. If the flights do exist, I can't find any.

The most-obvious path for this example I think would be Western Australia to southeast South America. The largest international airports, if I'm not mistaken, in each of those continents are Perth, Australia (PER) and Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE). If we search for a direct flight from PER to EZE, it would look like this, going directly over the center of Antarctica. This flight below, I believe is only theoretical since I could not find any actual flights like this. This flight, if it exists, would be about 7800 miles (6800 nautical miles) and last about 15.25 hours.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/f2fe2e8b-879d-4edc-bb93-5c71cf7a192e_zpsyycbuqzw.png)

On a globe, it would be more-or-less like this.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/04276275-668c-46c1-8c14-5f7a39ac730c_zpshpvhnuv8.png)

The problem is, it seems no flights ever go over Antarctica this way. I tried searching for any flights that go from anywhere in Western Australia to anywhere in South America. All flights either go to South Africa first, or to Eastern Australia first before flying to South America. Some flights from Eastern Australia to South America do fly over Antarctica, but only the edges, which of course would still be possible on a flat earth map.

This doesn't prove that the earth if flat, obviously. But to me it just raises suspicion. Actually, if one could confirm that there are flights that take this route over the South Pole, it would prove that the earth is a globe, right? But I think the actual, defined polar routes (as in the image below, from Wiki) agree with the my search that no flights ever go over the center of Antarctica.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/91c04e3e-1315-47f2-9d15-7dcce2e84309_zps1hd3hssn.png)
 
The flight path's shown above are possible on a flat earth map, although it would require you to essentially fly around the outer edge of the earth, which would not be the fastest route.

This problem does not exist on the North Pole, however. There are plenty of flights that regularly go right over the Arctic center and in fact. The flight from Los Angeles (LAX) to Dubai (DXB) takes this flight of 8300 miles (7200 nautical miles) and lasts over 16 hours.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/5bd1cebc-110c-49b7-b854-d2bca1048023_zpsvszcurij.png)

And there are plenty of other "polar routes" that go right over the pole.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/4b83861f-e83d-40d9-b8ee-f9e3e417eaec_zpsfmnriubv.png)

So the question is: Why? Why do no flights go over the center of Antarctica? It's suspicious that going over the North Pole is common, but going over the South Pole seems non-existent, and it seems unlikely that there would be no demand to fly directly from WA to South America. And if there are flights that do, why is the flat earth debate even a thing?

I glad I found this thread. I've been aboard this train now for maybe a year and haven't committed just as I'm generally slow to commit to much, sorry ladies, but I've been compelled to say the least but as I do every so often when time permits I actually look into something rather just have fun viewing /reading and believing and I looked into the flight thing and came to the end logical point of this thread except that no one's pointing out the most obvious, to me at least, factor of the flight durations. Why aren't we looking to that for the heaviest evidence?

According to our (pre FE) assumptions it should take 15 hrs across a globe to traverse these locations and guess what claim a Google search produced? I found a flight stated to take 15 hrs for this flight. Isn't that the most compelling evidence for a globe? Or was this a misprint or lie? Or is the theory vague on geography? Could the current FE map be way off to explain the possibility of these flights? Cuz according to the FE map I usually see it should take around 40 hours to cross this distance by plane.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Lonegranger on November 20, 2017, 03:01:11 PM
Wow look at all the flat earth tumbleweed blowing around.
This was one of the mainstays of fe argument Southern Hemisphere flight times along with how few flights there was in comparison to the northern hemisphere.
The truth was FE youtubers made things up regarding the flight times....again its public information just go look. The other almost laughable one regarding flight frequency was population differentials. Fe believers either forgot or did not know that only around 10-12% of the worlds population live in the Southern Hemisphere hence only 10% of flights.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 20, 2017, 03:15:57 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The most-obvious path for this example I think would be Western Australia to southeast South America. The largest international airports, if I'm not mistaken, in each of those continents are Perth, Australia (PER) and Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE). If we search for a direct flight from PER to EZE, it would look like this, going directly over the center of Antarctica. This flight below, I believe is only theoretical since I could not find any actual flights like this. This flight, if it exists, would be about 7800 miles (6800 nautical miles) and last about 15.25 hours.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/f2fe2e8b-879d-4edc-bb93-5c71cf7a192e_zpsyycbuqzw.png[/img]
On a globe, it would be more-or-less like this.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/04276275-668c-46c1-8c14-5f7a39ac730c_zpshpvhnuv8.png[/img]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
it would prove that the earth is a globe, right? But I think the actual, defined polar routes (as in the image below, from Wiki) agree with the my search that no flights ever go over the center of Antarctica.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/91c04e3e-1315-47f2-9d15-7dcce2e84309_zps1hd3hssn.png[/img]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This problem does not exist on the North Pole, however. There are plenty of flights that regularly go right over the Arctic center and in fact. The flight from Los Angeles (LAX) to Dubai (DXB) takes this flight of 8300 miles (7200 nautical miles) and lasts over 16 hours.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/5bd1cebc-110c-49b7-b854-d2bca1048023_zpsvszcurij.png[/img]
And there are plenty of other "polar routes" that go right over the pole.

Code: [Select]
[img]http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/JargonXJ/Flat%20Earth%20Theory/4b83861f-e83d-40d9-b8ee-f9e3e417eaec_zpsfmnriubv.png[/img]
So the question is: Why? Why do no flights go over the center of Antarctica? It's suspicious that going over the North Pole is common, but going over the South Pole seems non-existent, and it seems unlikely that there would be no demand to fly directly from WA to South America. And if there are flights that do, why is the flat earth debate even a thing?
You've been caught by the "Photobucket Ransom Demand" as I and many others have.
You'll need to get tour photos onto another host and modify your original posts, but it won't help posts that quoted yours.

I have hundreds of photos on Photobucket (they are still safe there) and I still haven't  fixed all the old posts months later.
I'm using "dropbox", but there are many, possibly better, hosts.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 20, 2017, 05:31:19 PM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
So the question is: Why? Why do no flights go over the center of Antarctica? It's suspicious that going over the North Pole is common, but going over the South Pole seems non-existent, and it seems unlikely that there would be no demand to fly directly from WA to South America. And if there are flights that do, why is the flat earth debate even a thing?
One major reason the "no flights go over the center of Antarctica" is that there are simply not enough commercial reasons for any.
A Perth to Santiago flight would fly over the South Pole, but there is just not enough demand so the flight is Sydney to/from Santiago and there are also safety issues.

There used to be a Perth to Johannesburg flight, but with longer range aircraft the Sydney to/from Johannesburg flight has replaced it - simply for commercial reasons.

There are safety-related reasons for avoiding much of Antarctica, especially since the Mount Erebus disaster.
Remember that much of Antarctica is at quite a high altitude while the North Pole region is completely flat.

Read thess excerpts from, Metabunk.org, Flat Earth Theory Debunked by Short Flights (QF27 & QF28) From Australia to South America (https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/page-4)

(https://www.metabunk.org/data/avatars/l/0/472.jpg?1390205097)
TWCobra (https://www.metabunk.org/members/twcobra.472/)
     
Quote from: TWCobra
Quote from: M Settle
And with a normal aircraft that flies at 39,000 ft there shouldn't be any concerns whatsoever for high passes that are un-mapped. And with an aircraft that flies long distances on a normal tank of fuel, 7800ish miles shouldn't even be a challenge.
all airliners are required to carry sufficient fuel to cope with a depressurisation or an engine failure at any point along the intended route, under instrument flight rules. The chart we use for SYD-SCL has about 75% of the continent as a no fly zone for this reason.
Quote from: TWCobra
Quote from: Mick West
But all you'd need to cross that no-fly zone is more fuel, right?
No, because we are IFR we'd need accurate terrain data.

Normally in a 747 we would descend to 14000 feet during a depressurisation event, then eventually to 10,000 feet once the oxygen supplied to the passengers runs out. That vertical profile gives us better fuel range.

If there is known terrain higher than those figures along the route, such as crossing the Andes or Himalayas, escape procedures are devised to limit the time at those higher altitude.

That does require more fuel, however, we have to be able to assure proper terrain clearance to do that because, unlike Admiral Byrd, IFR means you could be in cloud the whole way to destination.

If we can't guarantee statutory terrain clearance, then we simply aren't permitted to fly over that terrain.

The charter flights that do sightseeing over Antarctica also have the IFR restriction. This was imposed after the Air New Zealand Mt Erebus disaster in 1979.
So they only fly in the parts of the continent where terrain data is accurately known.

And this post details one particular Santiago to Sydney flight, Flights in the Southern Hemisphere Reply #52 on: October 04, 2017, 07:42:48 AM (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=72138.msg1964409#msg1964409)

I hope all this helps.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 20, 2017, 11:05:23 PM
What I'm currently struggling to find an answer to is why it appears that there are no flights that go directly over Antarctica, despite the fact that in some cases a flight directly over Antarctica would be the shortest possible flight. If the flights do exist, I can't find any.
The most-obvious path for this example I think would be Western Australia to southeast South America. The largest international airports, if I'm not mistaken, in each of those continents are Perth, Australia (PER) and Buenos Aires, Argentina (EZE). If we search for a direct flight from PER to EZE, it would look like this, going directly over the center of Antarctica. This flight below, I believe is only theoretical since I could not find any actual flights like this. This flight, if it exists, would be about 7800 miles (6800 nautical miles) and last about 15.25 hours.
I know the thread is old, but I felt like answering anyway.
While I'm not sure of the physical size of the airport, Perth is not the airport with the most traffic.
The major international Airport in Australia is Sydney. Thus lots of flights go from there.

Rab covered other reasons to avoid Antartica.
But one extra one I will say is the weather.
The weather at the north pole is quite mild compared to Antarctica.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on November 21, 2017, 09:01:09 AM
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.

An equal amount of sun year in an and year out would result in climates that are more similar to each other, yet that is not the reality of the Flat Earth on which we live.

The reality is the outermost reaches of the Flat Earth on which we live receive little to NO Sun at all and it is cold as fuck and will always remain cold as fuck.

I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.

Go pound sand.

Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 21, 2017, 12:09:54 PM
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.
The fact that the structure of the 2 are so dramatically different is the number one reason to call bullshit on that argument.

The north pole is a large body of water with ice in it.

The south pole is a continent covered in ice.
This includes large mountains.

The 2 are vastly different.
As such, you would not expect the 2 to have the same weather.

The reality is the outermost reaches of the Flat Earth on which we live receive little to NO Sun at all and it is cold as fuck and will always remain cold as fuck.
No, the reality is that the 2 poles receive similar amounts of light.

I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.
Then show a problem with it. Until you do, you are just calling BS.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.
Then go track it yourself.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 21, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.

An equal amount of sun year in an and year out would result in climates that are more similar to each other, yet that is not the reality of the Flat Earth on which we live.
Rubbish! The reason for the huge difference is simple that the North Pole region is all ocean and Antarctica is elevated land.
Look at the climate of Siberia and compare that with say Iceland.

Quote from: totallackey
The reality is the outermost reaches of the Flat Earth on which we live receive little to NO Sun at all and it is cold as fuck and will always remain cold as fuck.

I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.
You haven't the slightest idea of what your are talking about because most aircraft tracking is not by radar, but by ADS-B and similar services.
Hence aircraft can only be tracked when in range of an ADS-B receiver and their are not many across the southern Pacific, Indian or Altantic oceans.
Go and improve you education, airservices, Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/ads-b/).
Some time in 2018, satellite based ABS-B will be deployed using new Iridium satellites being deployed.
See, Aireon, SPACE-BASED ADS-B MAKING GLOBAL AIR TRAFFIC SURVEILLANCE A POWERFUL REALITY (https://aireon.com/).

Yes, using satellites, those thingos that orbit above the Globe.

Quote from: totallackey
Go pound sand.
While you bury your head in the sand, because you simply don't have the nouse to face reality!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a53065p05cweas0/0de495bd56dca1528fc8b445e9f8c0a1.jpg?dl=1)

Quote from: totallackey
Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
TWCobra is a Captain on the QANTAS QF27,QF28 flights Sydney to/from Santiago. See what he has to say!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TWCobra, Senior Member, Metabunk might have a very good idea, Mr TotallyLacking (in credibility), because he is the pilot on this Flight QF28.

Quote from: TWCobra
A Flight over the Antarctic Sea Ice From Chile to Australia (QF28)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzn39dx960bpe3o/TWCobra%2C%20Senior%20Member%2C%20Metabunk%20-%20Mercator%20Map%2C%2020161210-152703-oepxr.jpg?dl=1)
QF28, Route on Mercator's Projection
[Nov 18 2016] For anyone interested, in a couple of hours I'll be heading out of Santiago heading for Sydney on the QF28. The flight plan has us spending quite a bit of time at 71'30" South and the cloud forecast at the moment shows not a lot of cloud! Lucky I brought 2 GoPros with me!

Fingers crossed for a good time-lapse video of the ice pack!

The pic above shows the route. I've been meaning to post something explaining great circle routes and why they are faster. This map will help once I compare it to the Google Earth representation of the track.

In the meantime we will be taking off around 1700 GMT and landing about 14 hours later. Only around 5% of the flight will be visible on FR24 as there is just nobody to pick up our ADSB signals.

Main Flight plan has just arrived with 13:25 as the flight time which should have us in Sydney on schedule at 0645 UTC. Here is what the flight looks like in the Nav software.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/326pwdxphsy74mq/TWCobra%2C%20Senior%20Member%2C%20Metabunk%20-%20Polar%20Map%2C%20upload_2016-12-10_14-58-56.png?dl=1)
QF28, Route on Polar Projection
[UPDATE: Nov 19, 2016]
Just got in. We had 30 minutes with an awesome view of the ice.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Read the rest in: A Flight over the Antarctic Sea Ice From Chile to Australia (QF28) (https://www.metabunk.org/a-flight-over-the-antarctic-sea-ice-from-chile-to-australia-qf28.t8235/)

You might also  :P enjoy reading :P Flat Earth Theory Debunked by Short Flights (QF27 & QF28) From Australia to South America. (https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/)
Try that on your Pizza Planet map!

Get up to date, Mr Genius!

And I'd believe TWCobra before TotallyCrabby any day!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 21, 2017, 04:33:24 PM
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.
What is the reason for not flying directly over the south pole other than temperature/weather conditions?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 21, 2017, 07:05:31 PM
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.
I did not say that! Totally Crabby said that. I'll assume it was a simp,e mistake.

Quote from: AltSpace
What is the reason for not flying directly over the south pole other than temperature/weather conditions?
Here are a few:
Under IFR rules commercial must not fly over regions without adequately mapped terrain.
In the event of a depressurisation the plane must descend asap to 14,000 ft then to 10,000 ft when the passenger's oxygen runs out.
There are sections with low enough elevation for this to be no problem, nevertheless flying at 10,000 ft uses much more fuel.
Flying anywhere over the Antarctic requires a certain minimum number of polar environment suits.
Aircraft must always carry enough reserve fuel to reach designated emergency diversion airports at all points along the route.
Then at high altitude the air temperature can freeze the usual Jet A fuel (kerosene) and the more expensive Jet A-1 or Jet B  (kerosene+naphtha) might be needed.

These restraints apply to commercial passenger flights everywhere, it's just that all affect Antarctic flights.
Of course there are sight seeing flights and tourist flight's directly the South Pole. About 25% of Antarctica is quite unrestricted
The North Pole has many more diversion airports and far less extreme weather conditions.

In any case there is no reason for the Sydney to/from Santiago to fly over the South Pole. Here is the Great Circle route:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpyi22n7tofunwr/Sydney%20to%20Santiago%20Great%20Circle%20-%20Google%20Earth.png?dl=1)

PS I hope this turns out OK. I had cataract surgery (itself a piece-of-cake) a couple of hours ago and
      I can't even get my glasses on properly over my uncovered eye. Well, that's my excuse for any typos.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 21, 2017, 07:57:04 PM
That was my bad, messed up on quoting you.
And the fact the weather at the North Pole is so dramatically different from that of the supposed South Pole is the number one reason to call bullshit on the globe thing.
I did not say that! Totally Crabby said that. I'll assume it was a simp,e mistake.

Quote from: AltSpace
What is the reason for not flying directly over the south pole other than temperature/weather conditions?
Here are a few:
Under IFR rules commercial must not fly over regions without adequately mapped terrain.
In the event of a depressurisation the plane must descend asap to 14,000 ft then to 10,000 ft when the passenger's oxygen runs out.
There are sections with low enough elevation for this to be no problem, nevertheless flying at 10,000 ft uses much more fuel.
Flying anywhere over the Antarctic requires a certain minimum number of polar environment suits.
Aircraft must always carry enough reserve fuel to reach designated emergency diversion airports at all points along the route.
Then at high altitude the air temperature can freeze the usual Jet A fuel (kerosene) and the more expensive Jet A-1 or Jet B  (kerosene+naphtha) might be needed.

These restraints apply to commercial passenger flights everywhere, it's just that all affect Antarctic flights.
Of course there are sight seeing flights and tourist flight's directly the South Pole. About 25% of Antarctica is quite unrestricted
The North Pole has many more diversion airports and far less extreme weather conditions.

In any case there is no reason for the Sydney to/from Santiago to fly over the South Pole. Here is the Great Circle route:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpyi22n7tofunwr/Sydney%20to%20Santiago%20Great%20Circle%20-%20Google%20Earth.png?dl=1)

PS I hope this turns out OK. I had cataract surgery (itself a piece-of-cake) a couple of hours ago and
      I can't even get my glasses on properly over my uncovered eye. Well, that's my excuse for any typos.
So, basically, they can't fly over the Antarctic because it is much too cold for the most efficient altitudes for the planes?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 21, 2017, 08:28:36 PM
So, basically, they can't fly over the Antarctic because it is much too cold for the most efficient altitudes for the planes?
Commercial passenger planes are not permitted fly in 75% of Antarctica because of the numerous IFR rules I gave above.
In addition:
Commercial passenger planes do not fly across Antarctica because there is no commercial reason to do so.
At the present time there is no commercially viable route that even touches on Antarctica, apart from sight seeing flights.

A shortest route for a Perth to Santiago flight would overfly the South Pole, but Perth is a much smaller city than Sydney (or Melbourne) so at present the flight is not viable.
 
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 21, 2017, 11:21:56 PM
What is the reason for not flying directly over the south pole other than temperature/weather conditions?
That has already been addressed.
There are no routes that people want to fly (that is that have any serious demand and would be economically viable) which go over the south pole.

Why should they go over the south pole?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 21, 2017, 11:28:46 PM
That has already been addressed.
Well, Rabinoz explained it well enough I guess.
Quote from: JackBlack
There are no routes that people want to fly (that is that have any serious demand and would be economically viable) which go over the south pole.
You mean with the different fuel and equipment that goes along with it?
Quote from: JackBlack
Why should they go over the south pole?
If all else were equal, then why not with the shortest route? They've done it with the Sydney-Santiago, it could get quite straight with a flight route.
But if the fuel could freeze, I wouldn't go over the south pole of course.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 21, 2017, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: JackBlack
There are no routes that people want to fly (that is that have any serious demand and would be economically viable) which go over the south pole.
You mean with the different fuel and equipment that goes along with it?
No, I just mean commercially viable routes.
The only routes you would want to fly are those which will receive significant traffic.
Sydney is a major international airport, in part due to it being in the most populous city in Australia. As such, it makes the most sense for international flights to come from here.
Meanwhile Perth is basically nothing.

If all else were equal, then why not with the shortest route?
Not all else is equal.
The shortest routes which are economically viable don't go over the south pole.
So even ignoring the weather, there is no reason to go there.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 21, 2017, 11:58:43 PM
No, I just mean commercially viable routes.
The only routes you would want to fly are those which will receive significant traffic.
Sydney is a major international airport, in part due to it being in the most populous city in Australia. As such, it makes the most sense for international flights to come from here.
Meanwhile Perth is basically nothing.
Why? Even if it is a once in 20 years flight, why not fly the shortest route over the south pole?
It seems you are saying that even without the differing conditions, the shortest route is not economically viable, but what I got out of it is that it is not economically viable because of the weather conditions/temperatures over the Antarctic.
Quote
The shortest routes which are economically viable don't go over the south pole.
So even ignoring the weather, there is no reason to go there.
If it was a flight from Perth to Santiago, why would the fact that it is smaller than Sydney make it a less viable path?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on November 22, 2017, 12:48:35 AM
If all else were equal, then why not with the shortest route? They've done it with the Sydney-Santiago, it could get quite straight with a flight route.
No, the shortest Sydney-Santiago route does not overfly the South Pole.
In any case there is no reason for the Sydney to/from Santiago to fly over the South Pole. Here is the Great Circle route:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpyi22n7tofunwr/Sydney%20to%20Santiago%20Great%20Circle%20-%20Google%20Earth.png?dl=1)
The line labelled "Sydney to Santiago 11,400 km", touching 60S  is the great circle route on the Globe - the geodesic.
The Santiago to Sydney flight with Captain TWCobra flew a lot further south, down below 70S, to avoid headwinds.
So they flew a longer course, but achieved a better ground speed. They overflew a lot of ice, but did not touch Antarctica.

A Perth to Santiago route would fly over the pole., but as far as I know it has not been flown commercially - there's no reason to.
And there just aren't the required diversion airports, so the route would not be suitable even it was otherwise allowed by IFR.
I believe one (at least) RAF C-130 Hercules was flown from Perth to the Falklands during that war, but I've no confirmation, so it does not mean much.

Quote from: AltSpace
But if the fuel could freeze, I wouldn't go over the south pole of course.
If planes must fly in that region they use low temperature fuel, which is more expensive and hazardous - easier ignition from static arcs etc.
I noticed that you asked
If it was a flight from Perth to Santiago, why would the fact that it is smaller than Sydney make it a less viable path?
There are fewer passengers from Perth and it is further than from Sydney, so naturally QANTAS made the decision to fly from Sydney.
The smaller number of passengers fly Perth-Sydney-Santiago. No great problem.

Of course were they fly from Perth they would have to divert around part of Antarctica anyway.

But all this is very hypothetical because none of us are involved in making these commercial decisions.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 22, 2017, 01:21:25 AM
No, the shortest Sydney-Santiago route does not overfly the South Pole.
In any case there is no reason for the Sydney to/from Santiago to fly over the South Pole. Here is the Great Circle route:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpyi22n7tofunwr/Sydney%20to%20Santiago%20Great%20Circle%20-%20Google%20Earth.png?dl=1)
The line labelled "Sydney to Santiago 11,400 km", touching 60S  is the great circle route on the Globe - the geodesic.
The Santiago to Sydney flight with Captain TWCobra flew a lot further south, down below 70S, to avoid headwinds.
So they flew a longer course, but achieved a better ground speed. They overflew a lot of ice, but did not touch Antarctica.

I know, I was saying it was the shortest route, and they took it, so it clearly was viable, even if it is rarely taken.
Quote
A Perth to Santiago route would fly over the pole., but as far as I know it has not been flown commercially - there's no reason to.
Why not? Never enough in that area to make a flight? If they did, then what is wrong with the shortest route?
Quote
If planes must fly in that region they use low temperature fuel, which is more expensive and hazardous - easier ignition from static arcs etc.
Is it really that much more spendy?
Quote
There are fewer passengers from Perth and it is further than from Sydney, so naturally QANTAS made the decision to fly from Sydney.
The smaller number of passengers fly Perth-Sydney-Santiago. No great problem.
So since few passengers from Perth go to Santiago by flight, they stop by Sydney every-time? Is that why it isn't viable?
Quote
Of course were they fly from Perth they would have to divert around part of Antarctica anyway.
And my question is, ignoring temp. and weather conditions, why is the shorter path less viable?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Vaacif on November 22, 2017, 01:46:59 AM
There seems to be a lot of ignorant debate concerning HUGE flight times between Australia and South America.

But really there is nothing unusual about these flight at all.

I have seen quite a bit of rubbish concerning direct flights routing via North America?

WTF would these direct flights need to route this way?

The 3 pictures below illustrate exactly how these flights route, and it's usually either via overhead New Zealand or south of, depending on the direction of the upper winds, and best routing to avoid any headwinds.

As an air traffic controller in Christchurch, New Zealand, I have a direct knowledge of the routing that these flights take, and to provide actual backup to these routings, I have taken 2 screenshots from the Flightradar24 website that monitors and displays controlled flights around the world. The screenshots are that of a direct Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia flight, QANTAS 28, which took place around a week ago.

As the most direct route is overhead Christchurch, I have personally witnessed this flight on many occasions, travelling in either direction, dependant on departure point and destination.

The route is a curved line, due to the display of the 3D flight path onto a 2D world map.

The 3rd picture is from Google Earth, and illustrates how this 2D curved route, would actually appear as a straight line on the 3D globe.


(http://s23.postimg.org/3ohok8zjf/QF28.png)

(http://s17.postimg.org/i108kkkun/MID_TASMAN.png)

(http://s21.postimg.org/9anutiybb/ball.png)

They have mastered teleportation and are hiding it from us, they teleport the planes to their destination with some bit inbetween
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 22, 2017, 02:02:18 AM
Why? Even if it is a once in 20 years flight, why not fly the shortest route over the south pole?
A once in 20 year flight would make no sense at all.
No one is going to wait 20 years just to have a flight.

The same flights happen almost every day.
No one is going to want to make sure they get that specific flight. They are far more likely to book an earlier or later flight on a day of their choosing which will go another way.

You seem to just want one to go over the south pole.

It seems you are saying that even without the differing conditions, the shortest route is not economically viable
It can be interpreted that way.
If you have a few people in Perth that want to go to South America, it is more economically viable to have them catch a plane to Sydney, along with loads of other people going to Sydney, and have them get on a place in Sydney to go to South America.
That is far more economically viable than having loads of people in Sydney be forced to fly to Perth just to catch a plane to go to South America over the south pole.

I am saying that even without these other considerations there is not likely to be many (if any) flights that go over the south pole.

There simply isn't enough demand for these flights.


If it was a flight from Perth to Santiago, why would the fact that it is smaller than Sydney make it a less viable path?
Why would people go to Perth just to catch a flight to Santiago?
The majority of people flying from Australia to Santiago would be happier to go via Sydney. It will likely be a much shorter flight for them.
Sydney to Santiago is shorter than Perth to Santiago.
Additionally, these people are likely to be coming from Australia or NZ. This makes Perth quite far out of the way.

As such, there is more demand for the flight from Sydney than there is from Perth. That makes Perth less economically viable.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on November 22, 2017, 02:05:09 AM
So since few passengers from Perth go to Santiago by flight, they stop by Sydney every-time? Is that why it isn't viable?
Pretty much.
The few people from Perth going to Sydney makes more sense than the larger number going from Sydney to Perth, and Sydney is a better choice for those from Brisbane, NZ, Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide.
So Sydney is the smarter choice.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: AltSpace on November 22, 2017, 02:21:22 AM
I see.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 09, 2018, 06:08:25 PM
I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.

Go pound sand.

Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
However, the flight schedules are published. If the flights don't exist, where are the complaints about never being able to book on them? If they exist, but take much longer than scheduled, then where are the complaints about the excessive and persistent delays? The most likely answer is that the flights exist, and take about as long as advertised, and that's a problem for the flat earth theory.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: wise on February 10, 2018, 01:00:14 PM
I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.

Go pound sand.

Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
However, the flight schedules are published. If the flights don't exist, where are the complaints about never being able to book on them? If they exist, but take much longer than scheduled, then where are the complaints about the excessive and persistent delays? The most likely answer is that the flights exist, and take about as long as advertised, and that's a problem for the flat earth theory.

Nope.

The problem is;

There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia. About 10 times more flat earth believers in Brasil. But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.

All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.

Rounders always say "hey man, go, run to Santiago, cmoooonn". But none of us have done it. Because it is not exist.

Think, if you are deceiving people and gathering more than 20 billion $'s for per year, so you may set many dishonest people say lie like "comoooonn we gone to Santiago, hey comooon we did it". They have  not gone to Santiago from Sydney, nor the opposite route. They are nothing but a bunch of dishonest people!

If you say you are travelling the moon every day and returning every night, do we have to believe your lie? Or do we have to believe a lie that depends on a route written on a paper? No, we have not.

Prove it. Absent. I watched many full time videos between other routes but never, never and never a flight between Santiago and Sydney. There is nothing like this. This is completely a hoax. Who says to done it, he is the most one of the liar and dishonest one of the world.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: wise on February 10, 2018, 01:16:57 PM
Nowadays the interest to the flat earth theory is increased again. About all over the world, especially Australia.

And I wondered which city in Chile most interest to the FE?

In this image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A1LJR7.png)

Img taken from this link and this view today is reliable.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CL&q=flat%20earth,nasa

Did you see? The most interest to "Flat Earth" in Chile is in the Santiago. This city that globists constany claim they are travelling between Australia! And whats happen? This claim, I mean rounders say "we travel between Santiago and Sydney" incrases the interest in Santiago to the FE theory. Because they know this travel is impossible, absent so there must be a problem!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: inquisitive on February 10, 2018, 01:56:37 PM
I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.

Go pound sand.

Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
However, the flight schedules are published. If the flights don't exist, where are the complaints about never being able to book on them? If they exist, but take much longer than scheduled, then where are the complaints about the excessive and persistent delays? The most likely answer is that the flights exist, and take about as long as advertised, and that's a problem for the flat earth theory.

Nope.

The problem is;

There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia. About 10 times more flat earth believers in Brasil. But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.

All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.

Rounders always say "hey man, go, run to Santiago, cmoooonn". But none of us have done it. Because it is not exist.

Think, if you are deceiving people and gathering more than 20 billion $'s for per year, so you may set many dishonest people say lie like "comoooonn we gone to Santiago, hey comooon we did it". They have  not gone to Santiago from Sydney, nor the opposite route. They are nothing but a bunch of dishonest people!

If you say you are travelling the moon every day and returning every night, do we have to believe your lie? Or do we have to believe a lie that depends on a route written on a paper? No, we have not.

Prove it. Absent. I watched many full time videos between other routes but never, never and never a flight between Santiago and Sydney. There is nothing like this. This is completely a hoax. Who says to done it, he is the most one of the liar and dishonest one of the world.
Source for your numbers of travellers, believers etc. please.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Ising on February 10, 2018, 02:08:30 PM
Nowadays the interest to the flat earth theory is increased again. About all over the world, especially Australia.

And I wondered which city in Chile most interest to the FE?

In this image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A1LJR7.png)

Img taken from this link and this view today is reliable.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CL&q=flat%20earth,nasa

Did you see? The most interest to "Flat Earth" in Chile is in the Santiago. This city that globists constany claim they are travelling between Australia! And whats happen? This claim, I mean rounders say "we travel between Santiago and Sydney" incrases the interest in Santiago to the FE theory. Because they know this travel is impossible, absent so there must be a problem!

Santiago is by far the most inhabited city in Chile, as well as the capital of the country. So of course it is the "most interested in FE theory", as far as the number of interested people go. I'd wager it is also the most interested in pineapples and tap dancing. That doesn't prove anything (except your dishonesty).
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: inquisitive on February 10, 2018, 02:44:42 PM
Nowadays the interest to the flat earth theory is increased again. About all over the world, especially Australia.

And I wondered which city in Chile most interest to the FE?

In this image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A1LJR7.png)

Img taken from this link and this view today is reliable.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CL&q=flat%20earth,nasa

Did you see? The most interest to "Flat Earth" in Chile is in the Santiago. This city that globists constany claim they are travelling between Australia! And whats happen? This claim, I mean rounders say "we travel between Santiago and Sydney" incrases the interest in Santiago to the FE theory. Because they know this travel is impossible, absent so there must be a problem!

Santiago is by far the most inhabited city in Chile, as well as the capital of the country. So of course it is the "most interested in FE theory", as far as the number of interested people go. I'd wager it is also the most interested in pineapples and tap dancing. That doesn't prove anything (except your dishonesty).
Pineapple gets 50/day.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 10, 2018, 04:14:13 PM
Nope.

The problem is;

All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.

It's easy to claim that all contradicting evidence is lies (although defamation proceedings might arise). But it doesn't address the point I raised.

Just now I went onto the Qantas booking page, and went through a booking from Sydney to Santiago for the coming Wenesday. Looks like the plane (assuming it exists) is nearly full. I stopped only when I reached the payment page, because I don't actually want to go to Santiago. Anyone, including a flat-earth believer, can try this. So, the question is, what would happen if I tried to pay, as I would likely do if I actually wanted to travel. There are various possible outcomes. Firstly, my payment would be rejected. Secondly, it would be accepted, but between now and Wednesday, I'd be informed that the flight was cancelled. Thirdly, I might board the plane, which leaves Sydney, only to be diverted for some alleged technical reason. Fourthly, it might actually fly to Santiago, but take 28 hours longer than the claimed flight time.

Any of those scenarios, particularly if repeated over and over, would surely cause complaint. Where are those complaints? If the world's massive conspiracy is censoring them, why does it allow this forum to exist? Why allow flat-earther believers any ability to publicise their views? Indeed, why create the appearance of the existence of non-existent flights? Why offer direct services from Sydney to Santiago that don't exist, or don't perform as advertised, given that that's only going to cause trouble?

By far the most likely scenario is that the flights do exist, and take the advertised twelve and half hours to make the trip. That would explain the lack of complaints. Of course, that's a problem for the flat-earth theory.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on February 10, 2018, 07:10:04 PM
The problem is;

There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia. About 10 times more flat earth believers in Brasil. But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.
Rubbish! Anyone living in Australia knows that Australia does not:
look like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/s2jticzebvugd03/FE%20Ice%20Wall%20Map%20-%20Australia.jpg?dl=1)
     or like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml81k5ee2ltcpx6/Bi-polar%20map%20-%20Australia.png?dl=1)
You talk nonsense Mr Brotherhood of the Dome.

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome
All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.
More rubbish!
I don't care if Mr Brotherhood of the Dome thinks they are suspicious, they still fly at least six flights a week in each direction!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 10, 2018, 07:29:37 PM
If it was a flight from Perth to Santiago, why would the fact that it is smaller than Sydney make it a less viable path?
It means the number of passengers would be lower. That's a problem for a route that's not suitable for twin-engined aircraft under the current rules, because the four engined aircraft in commerical service capable of flying that distance are all large, with the smallest being the a340-300, carrying 277 passengers.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rabinoz on February 10, 2018, 08:24:35 PM
If it was a flight from Perth to Santiago, why would the fact that it is smaller than Sydney make it a less viable path?
It means the number of passengers would be lower. That's a problem for a route that's not suitable for twin-engined aircraft under the current rules, because the four engined aircraft in commerical service capable of flying that distance are all large, with the smallest being the a340-300, carrying 277 passengers.
I don't know of any passenger flights from Perth to South America. For a start there would be great difficulty meeting safety requirements in case of diversion due to engine failure or decompression.

I have seen that there was an RAF Lockheed C-130 Hercules flight from Perth, Australia, to Stanley, Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas).

But,  I can find no recent verification. The report might have been in Royal Air Force (https://www.raf.mod.uk).
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: wise on February 11, 2018, 08:06:43 AM
The problem is;

There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia. About 10 times more flat earth believers in Brasil. But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.
Rubbish! Anyone living in Australia knows that Australia does not:
look like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/s2jticzebvugd03/FE%20Ice%20Wall%20Map%20-%20Australia.jpg?dl=1)
     or like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml81k5ee2ltcpx6/Bi-polar%20map%20-%20Australia.png?dl=1)
You talk nonsense Mr Brotherhood of the Dome.

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome
All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.
More rubbish!
I don't care if Mr Brotherhood of the Dome thinks they are suspicious, they still fly at least six flights a week in each direction!

No they don't! No matter how you claim it, they do not! If they do that, so nobody in Santiago awaken of it! Whole Santiago thinks the earth is flat! Because they don't know you yet!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: wise on February 11, 2018, 08:15:12 AM
Nowadays the interest to the flat earth theory is increased again. About all over the world, especially Australia.

And I wondered which city in Chile most interest to the FE?

In this image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A1LJR7.png)

Img taken from this link and this view today is reliable.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CL&q=flat%20earth,nasa

Did you see? The most interest to "Flat Earth" in Chile is in the Santiago. This city that globists constany claim they are travelling between Australia! And whats happen? This claim, I mean rounders say "we travel between Santiago and Sydney" incrases the interest in Santiago to the FE theory. Because they know this travel is impossible, absent so there must be a problem!

Santiago is by far the most inhabited city in Chile, as well as the capital of the country. So of course it is the "most interested in FE theory", as far as the number of interested people go. I'd wager it is also the most interested in pineapples and tap dancing. That doesn't prove anything (except your dishonesty).

The interest ratio related with ratio of people interest, not the number of people. For example, if there is two cities and one of them is 10 millions and the other is 10.000; but interest is same; trends give you as "50-50" result, not 100 to zero.

So you are proved your dishonesty. I'm the most honored one here.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: wise on February 11, 2018, 08:27:38 AM
I call bull shit on the whole flightradar tracking thing presented in the OP.

There is not one independently documented instance of flightradar tracking a supposed non-stop Australia to South America (or South Africa) for the entire length of the claimed flight.

Go pound sand.

Anybody can draw lines on a map and claim the lines were generated by some other software.
However, the flight schedules are published. If the flights don't exist, where are the complaints about never being able to book on them? If they exist, but take much longer than scheduled, then where are the complaints about the excessive and persistent delays? The most likely answer is that the flights exist, and take about as long as advertised, and that's a problem for the flat earth theory.

Nope.

The problem is;

There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia. About 10 times more flat earth believers in Brasil. But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.

All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.

Rounders always say "hey man, go, run to Santiago, cmoooonn". But none of us have done it. Because it is not exist.

Think, if you are deceiving people and gathering more than 20 billion $'s for per year, so you may set many dishonest people say lie like "comoooonn we gone to Santiago, hey comooon we did it". They have  not gone to Santiago from Sydney, nor the opposite route. They are nothing but a bunch of dishonest people!

If you say you are travelling the moon every day and returning every night, do we have to believe your lie? Or do we have to believe a lie that depends on a route written on a paper? No, we have not.

Prove it. Absent. I watched many full time videos between other routes but never, never and never a flight between Santiago and Sydney. There is nothing like this. This is completely a hoax. Who says to done it, he is the most one of the liar and dishonest one of the world.
Source for your numbers of travellers, believers etc. please.

You can find out the number of believers in a topic I periodically update. You may see the last value as 40m something there. But it is a statistics and different than reality. In fact, people in every country researches flat earth with type as "flat earth" and their own language. I ascertained that people in countries don't talk English are searching "flat earth their own language" more and more than flat earth searches. But NASA is always nasa. Because it is a corporate name and never changes.

So the number of flat earth believers is: 40m + (40mx1,...) This 1,... is a number bigger than 1. So I get it as a number more than 80m. So that, 100m number of believers seems fair enough.

100.000.000 compared to 7.000.000 world ; so per 1 flat earth believer for per 70 world people.
x compared 24m australian. 24m/70= 340.000 believers. But in google trends and other places show us the interest in Australia is more than whole world. So that 500.000 number seemed fair enough.

I remember The population of Brasil is more than Australia 10 times but now I see it 8,6 times. I take it as 10 times and said it.

I calculated these numbers while posting in a few seconds and did not feel the need to show all calculations but I did not consider somebody ask them. If I did consider somebody ask it, I could make more carefuly calculation.  ;D
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: Ising on February 11, 2018, 10:36:14 AM
Nowadays the interest to the flat earth theory is increased again. About all over the world, especially Australia.

And I wondered which city in Chile most interest to the FE?

In this image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A1LJR7.png)

Img taken from this link and this view today is reliable.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=CL&q=flat%20earth,nasa

Did you see? The most interest to "Flat Earth" in Chile is in the Santiago. This city that globists constany claim they are travelling between Australia! And whats happen? This claim, I mean rounders say "we travel between Santiago and Sydney" incrases the interest in Santiago to the FE theory. Because they know this travel is impossible, absent so there must be a problem!

Santiago is by far the most inhabited city in Chile, as well as the capital of the country. So of course it is the "most interested in FE theory", as far as the number of interested people go. I'd wager it is also the most interested in pineapples and tap dancing. That doesn't prove anything (except your dishonesty).

The interest ratio related with ratio of people interest, not the number of people. For example, if there is two cities and one of them is 10 millions and the other is 10.000; but interest is same; trends give you as "50-50" result, not 100 to zero.

So you are proved your dishonesty. I'm the most honored one here.

Your link provides raw numbers of people, not rates. Also, you do realise that people might google "flat earth" just to make fun of you people, don't you ?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2018, 11:10:00 AM
There seems to be a lot of ignorant debate concerning HUGE flight times between Australia and South America.

But really there is nothing unusual about these flight at all.

I have seen quite a bit of rubbish concerning direct flights routing via North America?

WTF would these direct flights need to route this way?

The 3 pictures below illustrate exactly how these flights route, and it's usually either via overhead New Zealand or south of, depending on the direction of the upper winds, and best routing to avoid any headwinds.

As an air traffic controller in Christchurch, New Zealand, I have a direct knowledge of the routing that these flights take, and to provide actual backup to these routings, I have taken 2 screenshots from the Flightradar24 website that monitors and displays controlled flights around the world. The screenshots are that of a direct Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia flight, QANTAS 28, which took place around a week ago.

As the most direct route is overhead Christchurch, I have personally witnessed this flight on many occasions, travelling in either direction, dependant on departure point and destination.

The route is a curved line, due to the display of the 3D flight path onto a 2D world map.

The 3rd picture is from Google Earth, and illustrates how this 2D curved route, would actually appear as a straight line on the 3D globe.


(http://s23.postimg.org/3ohok8zjf/QF28.png)

(http://s17.postimg.org/i108kkkun/MID_TASMAN.png)

(http://s21.postimg.org/9anutiybb/ball.png)
1) I call bullshit on your claim you are a flight controller for anything other than a flight of fancy.

2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.

3) Take your FLIGHT AWARE and shove it up your keister. Tracking flights SOUTH of the the Equator is nigh impossible and anyone can draw a fucking red line on a fucking map.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 11, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
There seems to be a lot of ignorant debate concerning HUGE flight times between Australia and South America.

But really there is nothing unusual about these flight at all.

I have seen quite a bit of rubbish concerning direct flights routing via North America?

WTF would these direct flights need to route this way?

The 3 pictures below illustrate exactly how these flights route, and it's usually either via overhead New Zealand or south of, depending on the direction of the upper winds, and best routing to avoid any headwinds.

As an air traffic controller in Christchurch, New Zealand, I have a direct knowledge of the routing that these flights take, and to provide actual backup to these routings, I have taken 2 screenshots from the Flightradar24 website that monitors and displays controlled flights around the world. The screenshots are that of a direct Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia flight, QANTAS 28, which took place around a week ago.

As the most direct route is overhead Christchurch, I have personally witnessed this flight on many occasions, travelling in either direction, dependant on departure point and destination.

The route is a curved line, due to the display of the 3D flight path onto a 2D world map.

The 3rd picture is from Google Earth, and illustrates how this 2D curved route, would actually appear as a straight line on the 3D globe.


(http://s23.postimg.org/3ohok8zjf/QF28.png)

(http://s17.postimg.org/i108kkkun/MID_TASMAN.png)

(http://s21.postimg.org/9anutiybb/ball.png)
1) I call bullshit on your claim you are a flight controller for anything other than a flight of fancy.

2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.

3) Take your FLIGHT AWARE and shove it up your keister. Tracking flights SOUTH of the the Equator is nigh impossible and anyone can draw a fucking red line on a fucking map.

You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.

Or you can continue to be close minded and believe everything you see on YouTube.

Your choice.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: MicroBeta on February 11, 2018, 03:41:29 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?
What does "non-refundable" have to do with taking the flight? 

Mike
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: frenat on February 11, 2018, 03:52:52 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there. 
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2018, 04:04:33 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?
What does "non-refundable" have to do with taking the flight? 

Mike
Non-refundable has a lot to do with it if one was doing a study on whether or not these flights actually exist.

I do plan on on saving enough money to take a trip down under in the future and it would include a week in Australia and a week in Chile.

That takes money (about 6 weeks salary for the airfare alone) and I cannot afford to waste it booking the flight and then losing the money just because...
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: MicroBeta on February 11, 2018, 04:58:46 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?
What does "non-refundable" have to do with taking the flight? 

Mike
Non-refundable has a lot to do with it if one was doing a study on whether or not these flights actually exist.

I do plan on on saving enough money to take a trip down under in the future and it would include a week in Australia and a week in Chile.

That takes money (about 6 weeks salary for the airfare alone) and I cannot afford to waste it booking the flight and then losing the money just because...
Like frenat said, you can book through Qantas it's fully refundable if you cancel before departure.  I just looked it up.  There's a direct flight from Sydney to Santiago next Saturday. 

Mike
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 11, 2018, 05:22:22 PM
2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.
It seems an act of complete desperation to argue that airlines are advertising and offering flights that either don't exist, or take multiples of the advertised time, with multiple stops. Where are all the complaints from severely annoyed passengers, or would-be passengers? Why would the airlines do something that's only going to cause them trouble? In the case where the flight takes longer, and multiple stops, why would the airlines offer something that would inevitably lose them money? If the Earth really were flat, such that the direct flights were impossible, why wouldn't the airlines simply claim that the direct routes were uneconomic, and not offer them?

Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.
It seems an act of complete desperation to argue that airlines are advertising and offering flights that either don't exist, or take multiples of the advertised time, with multiple stops. Where are all the complaints from severely annoyed passengers, or would-be passengers? Why would the airlines do something that's only going to cause them trouble? In the case where the flight takes longer, and multiple stops, why would the airlines offer something that would inevitably lose them money? If the Earth really were flat, such that the direct flights were impossible, why wouldn't the airlines simply claim that the direct routes were uneconomic, and not offer them?
I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:

"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we have made these alternate arrangements for you."

If I complain a lot (probably not) the agent offers a voucher for 50 bucks off my next flight...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: MicroBeta on February 11, 2018, 05:53:40 PM
2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.
It seems an act of complete desperation to argue that airlines are advertising and offering flights that either don't exist, or take multiples of the advertised time, with multiple stops. Where are all the complaints from severely annoyed passengers, or would-be passengers? Why would the airlines do something that's only going to cause them trouble? In the case where the flight takes longer, and multiple stops, why would the airlines offer something that would inevitably lose them money? If the Earth really were flat, such that the direct flights were impossible, why wouldn't the airlines simply claim that the direct routes were uneconomic, and not offer them?
I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:

"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we are have made these alternate arrangements for you."

If I complain a lot (probably not) the agent offers a voucher for 50 bucks off my next flight...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
While it may be possible, do you have anything to support your supposition?

Mike
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 11, 2018, 06:44:06 PM
ftp://
I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:

"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we are have made these alternate arrangements for you."

If I complain a lot (probably not) the agent offers a voucher for 50 bucks off my next flight...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
Many passengers would be aware that there are plenty of non-stop flights that exceed twelve and half hours (I've been on such flights myself, multiple times, Sydney to Los Angeles, Singapore to London), and that the pilot hours issue is managed by having additional pilots on board so that no pilot has to work the entire flight. So they'd find this excuse less than plausible. They'd also point out that in any case, the airline would have know about the problem in advance, but still offered the non-stop flight. There's no way that an airline could get away with doing this over and over again.

As for making more money off multiple stops, this would only work if the airline tried to get the passenger to pay the extra. If the airline engaged in such a practice on a regular basis, it would certainly be subject to sanctions from consumer protection agencies, because bait and switch is not allowed.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 11, 2018, 07:55:58 PM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?

The fact that it can be refunded perhaps.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2018, 05:22:41 AM
2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.
It seems an act of complete desperation to argue that airlines are advertising and offering flights that either don't exist, or take multiples of the advertised time, with multiple stops. Where are all the complaints from severely annoyed passengers, or would-be passengers? Why would the airlines do something that's only going to cause them trouble? In the case where the flight takes longer, and multiple stops, why would the airlines offer something that would inevitably lose them money? If the Earth really were flat, such that the direct flights were impossible, why wouldn't the airlines simply claim that the direct routes were uneconomic, and not offer them?
I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:

"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we are have made these alternate arrangements for you."

If I complain a lot (probably not) the agent offers a voucher for 50 bucks off my next flight...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
While it may be possible, do you have anything to support your supposition?

Mike
Yes, the reality of caps on pilot operating hours.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2018, 05:25:04 AM
You can verify it yourself by booking the flight and indeed taking the flight.
Which part of "non-refundable," eluded your pea-brain?

The fact that it can be refunded perhaps.
It seems Qantas (I have not verified this for a fact) is offering refunds on these supposed flights.

I will investigate further.

I know other websites offer no refunds or transfer options when ordering.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2018, 05:44:39 AM
Many passengers would be aware that there are plenty of non-stop flights that exceed twelve and half hours (I've been on such flights myself, multiple times, Sydney to Los Angeles, Singapore to London), and that the pilot hours issue is managed by having additional pilots on board so that no pilot has to work the entire flight.
Easier written than done.
So they'd find this excuse less than plausible. They'd also point out that in any case, the airline would have know about the problem in advance, but still offered the non-stop flight. There's no way that an airline could get away with doing this over and over again.
Once I get more data in as far as how many of these flights actually take off and do not get re-routed, we shall see.
As for making more money off multiple stops, this would only work if the airline tried to get the passenger to pay the extra. If the airline engaged in such a practice on a regular basis, it would certainly be subject to sanctions from consumer protection agencies, because bait and switch is not allowed.
Ah, Jesus...

The extra money is not charged to the individual passenger.

The extra money comes from having a plane closer to full capacity.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SpaceCadet on February 12, 2018, 05:58:22 AM

I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and....."

If I complain a lot (probably not)...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.



Lots of people. People with deadlines. People with connecting flights. People that just want to pass on their frustrations on the next person.

Ever heard any of such people say they were treated such on the Sydney-Santiago or Sydney-Jo'burg routes?

Even if Aussies are so damn nice they don't complain (which I seriously doubt thanks to Rabinoz), what of the South Africans or even South Americans with all that passionate Latin blood?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: defender_of_truth on February 12, 2018, 06:20:18 AM
Many passengers would be aware that there are plenty of non-stop flights that exceed twelve and half hours (I've been on such flights myself, multiple times, Sydney to Los Angeles, Singapore to London), and that the pilot hours issue is managed by having additional pilots on board so that no pilot has to work the entire flight.
Easier written than done.
So they'd find this excuse less than plausible. They'd also point out that in any case, the airline would have know about the problem in advance, but still offered the non-stop flight. There's no way that an airline could get away with doing this over and over again.
Once I get more data in as far as how many of these flights actually take off and do not get re-routed, we shall see.
As for making more money off multiple stops, this would only work if the airline tried to get the passenger to pay the extra. If the airline engaged in such a practice on a regular basis, it would certainly be subject to sanctions from consumer protection agencies, because bait and switch is not allowed.
Ah, Jesus...

The extra money is not charged to the individual passenger.

The extra money comes from having a plane closer to full capacity.

I agree completely! Now, Ive never been south of the equator, but I think that these flights dont exist and that fact can be well hidden. number of times Ive been delayed at an airport is ridiculous! Sometimes I go to a hotel and back the next day and didnt know even what airport or country I was in. Maybe I also have no concept of time when I fall asleep on a flight. Jet lag is the result of such drugging and passing out!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2018, 06:24:45 AM
Lots of people. People with deadlines. People with connecting flights. People that just want to pass on their frustrations on the next person.

Ever heard any of such people say they were treated such on the Sydney-Santiago or Sydney-Jo'burg routes?

Even if Aussies are so damn nice they don't complain (which I seriously doubt thanks to Rabinoz), what of the South Africans or even South Americans with all that passionate Latin blood?
Whatever Copernicus...

Lots of people my ass...

80/20 rule...

80 percent of the world's people live their life looking simply to get to the next fucking day and would not utter a word...
Then we have 20 percent...made up of:

Thinking people who exercise sensibility and would not make too much of a fuss, especially in an airport, boarding on an intercontinental flight, mostly for business purposes.

RE-tards like you, who spend their lives somewhat aimlessly, finding themselves frequenting flat earth websites as part of their daily chores who have never been to an airport, let alone going to fly on a plane...

Other RE-tards too stupid to not control themselves and who think the entire world is just like them...

WTF is wrong with you?

Most people would not argue the issue of a cap on pilot operating hours and I guarantee if you tried to make a big scene out of it at an airport, you would certainly not like the result...
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rvlvr on February 12, 2018, 06:27:21 AM
Eighty and twenty percent, you say?

I raise you one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Percent_Nation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Percent_Nation)

They hold the true knowledge! Keep your pitiful twenty, you weed.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 12, 2018, 06:49:29 AM
Lots of people. People with deadlines. People with connecting flights. People that just want to pass on their frustrations on the next person.

Ever heard any of such people say they were treated such on the Sydney-Santiago or Sydney-Jo'burg routes?

Even if Aussies are so damn nice they don't complain (which I seriously doubt thanks to Rabinoz), what of the South Africans or even South Americans with all that passionate Latin blood?
Whatever Copernicus...

Lots of people my ass...

80/20 rule...

80 percent of the world's people live their life looking simply to get to the next fucking day and would not utter a word...
Then we have 20 percent...made up of:

Thinking people who exercise sensibility and would not make too much of a fuss, especially in an airport, boarding on an intercontinental flight, mostly for business purposes.

RE-tards like you, who spend their lives somewhat aimlessly, finding themselves frequenting flat earth websites as part of their daily chores who have never been to an airport, let alone going to fly on a plane...

Other RE-tards too stupid to not control themselves and who think the entire world is just like them...

WTF is wrong with you?

Most people would not argue the issue of a cap on pilot operating hours and I guarantee if you tried to make a big scene out of it at an airport, you would certainly not like the result...

Take the flight yourself. Prove yourself wrong.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: rvlvr on February 12, 2018, 06:52:22 AM
Oh man, that'd be the day.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: MicroBeta on February 12, 2018, 06:57:55 AM
2) A person can try to book a direct flight from Australia to South America all they want. Those flights do not take place on a daily basis (I see Petey on here stating they offer six flights a week...I bet none of those actually go fulfilled).If you do book the flight, be prepared to not only lose the cost of the deposit, but also be prepared to be placed on a two or three stop flight due to any myriad of airline related foul ups.
It seems an act of complete desperation to argue that airlines are advertising and offering flights that either don't exist, or take multiples of the advertised time, with multiple stops. Where are all the complaints from severely annoyed passengers, or would-be passengers? Why would the airlines do something that's only going to cause them trouble? In the case where the flight takes longer, and multiple stops, why would the airlines offer something that would inevitably lose them money? If the Earth really were flat, such that the direct flights were impossible, why wouldn't the airlines simply claim that the direct routes were uneconomic, and not offer them?
I am a passenger and I want to go from Australia to Chile.

I book one of the direct flights.

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:

"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we are have made these alternate arrangements for you."

If I complain a lot (probably not) the agent offers a voucher for 50 bucks off my next flight...

Not too big a deal...

Who is going to argue against caps on pilot operating hours?

Nobody.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
While it may be possible, do you have anything to support your supposition?

Mike
Yes, the reality of caps on pilot operating hours.
I actually meant that it's what happens to these flights.

Not that it matters. We can follow the flights online or even reach out to someone to see the liftoff and landing.
 Short of actually taking the flight it's the best you can do.

Although, a go find me to send a FEer on the flight would put the question to bed without having to rely on what you consider untrustworthy sources. That's probably the fastest way to put it to rest.

Mike
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2018, 07:07:40 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: defender_of_truth on February 12, 2018, 07:17:19 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.

I know someone personally who claims to have been to the Santiago and Austria so I can ask any questions of them you want. I still do not know if the person can be trusted but it could be interesting to ask.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: NAZA on February 12, 2018, 07:25:25 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.

I know someone personally who claims to have been to the Santiago and Austria so I can ask any questions of them you want. I still do not know if the person can be trusted but it could be interesting to ask.

If this person claims to have been on this flight then of course he can not be trusted.  Duh.
[/flatterlogic]
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: defender_of_truth on February 12, 2018, 07:31:23 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.

I know someone personally who claims to have been to the Santiago and Austria so I can ask any questions of them you want. I still do not know if the person can be trusted but it could be interesting to ask.

If this person claims to have been on this flight then of course he can not be trusted.  Duh.
[/flatterlogic]

Well... exactly! We can trust the answers that are truthful and align with our real observations of a flat infinitely long but finite special planar surface. It is exactly flat!
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: frenat on February 12, 2018, 08:22:19 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.
check farther out.  I looked for some in May and there were option listed with no cancellation fee.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: MicroBeta on February 12, 2018, 08:48:05 AM
Only non-refundable when booking through third party sites for the cheapest seats.  I just checked Qantas.com and they have refundable options there.
This appears to be untrue.

First flight I tried was subject to 200 USD cancellation fere and then other charges simply to switch itinerary.
When I did this on Qantas' site yesterday it displayed the policy a full refund is you cancel before the day departure and a no show or the day of departure it $500/person.  I don't remember seeing $200.  I'll have to look again when I get home tonight.

Mike
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on February 12, 2018, 01:05:33 PM
There is more than 100.000.000 flat earth believer and about 500.000 of them are living in Australia.
Citation needed.

But neither in Brasil, nor in Australia a flat earth believer flown to the other continent.
I wonder why?
Is it because they know it would destroy the FE model?
Is it because when they do they realise FE is nonsense and discard it?

All the claims made as "we flight Santiago from Sydney" all are rounders. So all of them are suspicious. This is main problem.
Yes, this is your main problem. Any evidence which contradicts you, you dismiss as suspicious.
There is nothing suspicious about it.

Rounders always say "hey man, go, run to Santiago, cmoooonn". But none of us have done it. Because it is not exist.
Really? Now you are claiming a city doesn't exist?

I take it you realised your latest FE map doesn't work with it either?

Why don't you accept the evidence and accept Earth is round rather than continually every piece of evidence presented which shows Earth is round.

Who is the more dishonest person?
The one that honestly presents and accepts evidence, or the one that dismisses it as fake because it contradicts them and comes from someone that doesn't agree with them?
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: JackBlack on February 12, 2018, 01:16:25 PM
Non-refundable has a lot to do with it if one was doing a study on whether or not these flights actually exist.
No it doesn't.
It doesn't matter if the cost is refundable or not. You book the flight, you take it, you verify its existence.

I do plan on on saving enough money to take a trip down under in the future and it would include a week in Australia and a week in Chile.

That takes money (about 6 weeks salary for the airfare alone) and I cannot afford to waste it booking the flight and then losing the money just because...
But you would be taking the flight regardless? So why would you lose the money?

I arrive at the airport that very day and when I arrive, a customer service agent states to me:
"Sir, we are very sorry but the direct flight has been cancelled because of rules prohibiting pilot operating hours; however, we have made these alternate arrangements for you."
If that was the case they wouldn't have the flight pretend to fly with tracking and flight details on sights like flightaware or flightradar.

Airlines make more money off multiple stops.
Airlines make more money off of routes which are flown by lots of people.
If a journey between 2 cities isn't used by enough people it is more profitable to have an indirect journey which contains several routes used by lots of people or just a short leg used by few people.

But if that was going to be their motivation, why provide a claim of a direct flight? Why not just offer the flight and have it be an indirect one?
Especially with repeatedly discarding the flight having the airline deemed unreliable.

Most people would not argue the issue of a cap on pilot operating hours
No, they would argue the issue of the airline being too incompetent to have enough employees to be able to fulfil all their flights.
Title: Re: Flight times between Australia and South America
Post by: SylviaElse on February 12, 2018, 03:01:05 PM
Once I get more data in as far as how many of these flights actually take off and do not get re-routed, we shall see.
How do you intend to get this data? On the face of it, you'd only believe it if you boarded such a plane, and it didn't get re-routed.

You could try looking at the Sydney and Santiago departures and arrivals web pages. It would cause no end of confusion for actual passengers and those meeting them if those pages were systematically inaccurate.