The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 06:42:03 PM

Title: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 06:42:03 PM
I have been reading these forums for some time, been reading both sides of the arguments.

I have yet to see any proof of a globe earth.

I will debate anyone here bring it on.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sokarul on June 15, 2015, 06:45:24 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 06:54:20 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Foucault pendulum is in no way evidence the earth is rotating. It's a suspended bob that moves, an unexplained phenomenon.

The suns behavior is also a mystery, as are it's origins, true size and distance.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 07:01:01 PM

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Furthermore I never said the sun moves further away. Do not assume.

We are discussing proof of a round earth in this particular thread.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sokarul on June 15, 2015, 07:25:47 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Foucault pendulum is in no way evidence the earth is rotating. It's a suspended bob that moves, an unexplained phenomenon.
But it moves in a predictable pattern, which is based off of latitude. quite easy to explain. I saw one in France.
Quote
The suns behavior is also a mystery, as are it's origins, true size and distance.
No, it is no mystery at all. Quite explainable.

I see your best rebuttal is "It's unexplained"  I expected more. 
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 07:31:25 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Foucault pendulum is in no way evidence the earth is rotating. It's a suspended bob that moves, an unexplained phenomenon.
But it moves in a predictable pattern, which is based off of latitude. quite easy to explain. I saw one in France.
Quote
The suns behavior is also a mystery, as are it's origins, true size and distance.
No, it is no mystery at all. Quite explainable.

I see your best rebuttal is "It's unexplained"  I expected more.

It moves in a predictable pattern, ok that's fine. But that doesn't prove the earth is a ball and rotating.

Also yes the sun's behavior is unexplained, you can't tell me how the sun got there, why it moves the way it does, how large it is, why it appears to be the same size as the moon, why it's gravity doesn't suck us in, and many more.

Also don't detract please, I want to see proof of a ball earth.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 15, 2015, 07:47:44 PM
I'm going to bed right now but will be back after work tomorrow but I will leave you with this.

If the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles an hour and we can't feel it because we are spinning with it, how exactly can the foucault pendulum defy this property and remain still while the earth supposedly spins underneath, have you really given this any critical thought, or are you just parroting what other's have told you?

Use your brain and think for once.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sokarul on June 15, 2015, 08:44:27 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Foucault pendulum is in no way evidence the earth is rotating. It's a suspended bob that moves, an unexplained phenomenon.
But it moves in a predictable pattern, which is based off of latitude. quite easy to explain. I saw one in France.
Quote
The suns behavior is also a mystery, as are it's origins, true size and distance.
No, it is no mystery at all. Quite explainable.

I see your best rebuttal is "It's unexplained"  I expected more.

It moves in a predictable pattern, ok that's fine. But that doesn't prove the earth is a ball and rotating.
You are still forgetting they are predictable based on latitude.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/6/1/b61b9c6cfd7b3c0b4aa3ea6be793194e.png)
where omega is angular speed and phi is latitude.


Quote
Also yes the sun's behavior is unexplained, you can't tell me how the sun got there, why it moves the way it does, how large it is, why it appears to be the same size as the moon, why it's gravity doesn't suck us in, and many more.
It got there because the earth formed around it.
It moves the way it because because the earth is in an non circular orbit around it.
The sun has a circumference of 4.379x106km.
It is a coincidence that the sun and moon appear the same size.
We are in orbit around the sun, out velocity keeps us from falling in.
All explainable.
Quote
Also don't detract please, I want to see proof of a ball earth.

ISS HD Earth Viewing Experiment on USTREAM: ***QUICK NOTES ABOUT HDEV VIDEO*** Black Image = International Space Station (ISS) is on the night side of the ... (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iss-hdev-payload#)

...

If the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles an hour and we can't feel it because we are spinning with it, how exactly can the foucault pendulum defy this property and remain still while the earth supposedly spins underneath, have you really given this any critical thought, or are you just parroting what other's have told you?
The pendulum does spin with the earth, it just doesn't twist with the earth. There is no force acting on it to change it's swinging direction.

Quote
Use your brain and think for once.
I suggest you do the same.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 15, 2015, 09:00:08 PM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on June 15, 2015, 09:24:03 PM
I have been reading these forums for some time, been reading both sides of the arguments.

I have yet to see any proof of a globe earth.

I will debate anyone here bring it on.

Ok, let's keep it simple.

1.  The higher you climb the further you can see.  This is not possible on a flat earth
2. The horizon on a clear day is a sharp line, not a hazy blur.  On a flat earth the horizon is the vanishing point of visibility.
3. Stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise about the South Celestial pole,   In the North stars rotate anti clockwise about the North Celestial pole,  two poles = globe.
4. The South Pole is a place you can visit.  Not some forbidden land with an ice wall, there is no edge.
5. From the Southern Hemisphere summer solstice to the winter solstice there is 24 hour daylight inside the Antarctic Circle.
6  Distances in the Southern Hemisphere match exactly what you expect on a globe,  there is no flat earth map to explain this.
7. Satellites are in orbit,  and can be proven to be exactly where they are supposed to be.  GPS, Satellite TV, Satellite phones etc.  all work as expected.
8. The South magnetic pole is a point at  S 63 30,  E 138,   which explains magnetic inclination,  a flat earth with South Magnetic pole underneath would have vertical inclination.
9. Differential levels can measure the earth's curvature directly and accurately. 
10.  Geodetic surveys routinely correct for C+R,  curvature and refraction,  it's standard surveying practice.   

That should be enough to get you started.

And the killer,  no one has ever shown ANY evidence of a flat earth.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 15, 2015, 10:31:09 PM
Here is a picture of Earth taken on a mission that would require well over 1,000,000 conspirators to fake:

(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/cool-space-picture-5.jpg)

On top of that, the Moon is always seen from the same perspective reguardless of where you are on the Earth.
Sigma Octantus (the south star) is always south of the observer and only visible in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Sun sets and at the same time we have time zones, so you can't see the Sun at night but someone on another continent can see it.
I can see the International Space Station flying overhead and it looks like the station when I look at it with a telescope.
Check my forum signature for more.

I actually haven't seen a single flat Earth proof.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Itchy_Arris on June 16, 2015, 12:44:05 AM
Here is a picture of Earth taken on a mission that would require well over 1,000,000 conspirators to fake:

(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/cool-space-picture-5.jpg)

On top of that, the Moon is always seen from the same perspective reguardless of where you are on the Earth.
Sigma Octantus (the south star) is always south of the observer and only visible in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Sun sets and at the same time we have time zones, so you can't see the Sun at night but someone on another continent can see it.
I can see the International Space Station flying overhead and it looks like the station when I look at it with a telescope.
Check my forum signature for more.

I actually haven't seen a single flat Earth proof.

That picture is a joke. North Africa and Arabia are near the north pole? Really? They are quite warm you know.  ::)
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on June 16, 2015, 02:01:09 AM
Here is a picture of Earth taken on a mission that would require well over 1,000,000 conspirators to fake:

(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/cool-space-picture-5.jpg)

On top of that, the Moon is always seen from the same perspective reguardless of where you are on the Earth.
Sigma Octantus (the south star) is always south of the observer and only visible in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Sun sets and at the same time we have time zones, so you can't see the Sun at night but someone on another continent can see it.
I can see the International Space Station flying overhead and it looks like the station when I look at it with a telescope.
Check my forum signature for more.

I actually haven't seen a single flat Earth proof.

That picture is a joke. North Africa and Arabia are near the north pole? Really? They are quite warm you know.  ::)
Obvious troll is obvious.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 16, 2015, 02:11:43 AM
100000000000 conspirators with 1 million dollars in bank wouldn't tell nothing.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 16, 2015, 02:17:48 AM
I have been reading these forums for some time, been reading both sides of the arguments.

I have yet to see any proof of a globe earth.

I will debate anyone here bring it on.

Ok, let's keep it simple.

1.  The higher you climb the further you can see.  This is not possible on a flat earth
2. The horizon on a clear day is a sharp line, not a hazy blur.  On a flat earth the horizon is the vanishing point of visibility.
3. Stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise about the South Celestial pole,   In the North stars rotate anti clockwise about the North Celestial pole,  two poles = globe.
4. The South Pole is a place you can visit.  Not some forbidden land with an ice wall, there is no edge.
5. From the Southern Hemisphere summer solstice to the winter solstice there is 24 hour daylight inside the Antarctic Circle.
6  Distances in the Southern Hemisphere match exactly what you expect on a globe,  there is no flat earth map to explain this.
7. Satellites are in orbit,  and can be proven to be exactly where they are supposed to be.  GPS, Satellite TV, Satellite phones etc.  all work as expected.
8. The South magnetic pole is a point at  S 63 30,  E 138,   which explains magnetic inclination,  a flat earth with South Magnetic pole underneath would have vertical inclination.
9. Differential levels can measure the earth's curvature directly and accurately. 
10.  Geodetic surveys routinely correct for C+R,  curvature and refraction,  it's standard surveying practice.   

That should be enough to get you started.

And the killer,  no one has ever shown ANY evidence of a flat earth.

1)probably other explanation aside from round earth because you climb higher you still don't see the curve.
2)don't know what the difference.
3)could be 10000 explanations aside from round earth.
4)the south pole could be a place this has nothing to do with round earth.
5)there are controversies about it.
6)No they are not you haven't proved it aside from the conspiracy.
7)This is what we call "the conspiracy".
8)other explanations can be found you just have to search for them.
9)don't know what you mean.
10)Conspiracy.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Art on June 16, 2015, 07:07:58 AM
The fact that you can calculate and travel the shortest distance between two locations
calculated with great circle formula (shortest line connecting the two points across a sphere).
It works on the same land mass too.

If you want to fall off the edge of the Earth where should you head for?
If the answer is the old South Pole around the whole disc of an Earth,
that messes up our representation of geographic land mass severely,
and can easily be locally checked across relatively short distances.

Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: robintex on June 16, 2015, 11:35:02 AM
Here is a picture of Earth taken on a mission that would require well over 1,000,000 conspirators to fake:

(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/cool-space-picture-5.jpg)

On top of that, the Moon is always seen from the same perspective reguardless of where you are on the Earth.
Sigma Octantus (the south star) is always south of the observer and only visible in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Sun sets and at the same time we have time zones, so you can't see the Sun at night but someone on another continent can see it.
I can see the International Space Station flying overhead and it looks like the station when I look at it with a telescope.
Check my forum signature for more.

I actually haven't seen a single flat Earth proof.

That picture is a joke. North Africa and Arabia are near the north pole? Really? They are quite warm you know.  ::)

Pictures taken from space of the earth depend on which angle from which they were taken. Your assumption that North Africa and Arabia are near the North Pole indicates that you are either ignorant of this or just don't understand .

If you have a globe and a camera handy, try taking a few pictures from different angles and see if you don't get the same results as in the picture.

In short there is an almost infinite proof of a globe earth. And there is absolutely no proof that there is a flat earth. Period.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 16, 2015, 11:59:26 AM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.


I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: kman on June 16, 2015, 01:17:21 PM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.


I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

If we look at it completely zeteticly, without any bias, we still come to the same conclusion. My experience teaches me that the bigger the vehicle, the less motion is felt. When you are on a bike, you feel lots of motion. In a car, you feel motion, but less. On a plane, you feel very little motion except when accelerating. On a large cruise ship, you feel no motion at all. Earth is billions and billions of times bigger than a cruise ship, so logically you wouldn't feel any motion.

That's me being as open-minded as possible.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 16, 2015, 02:18:24 PM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.



I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

If we look at it completely zeteticly, without any bias, we still come to the same conclusion. My experience teaches me that the bigger the vehicle, the less motion is felt. When you are on a bike, you feel lots of motion. In a car, you feel motion, but less. On a plane, you feel very little motion except when accelerating. On a large cruise ship, you feel no motion at all. Earth is billions and billions of times bigger than a cruise ship, so logically you wouldn't feel any motion.

That's me being as open-minded as possible.

Just go out side and start running for a while, then suddenly stop. If the Earth is spinning over !/4 mps and you suddenly stop and the Earth keeps on spinning, you have to agree the Earth's momentium should at least knock you off balance.
You can't see that? Remember, we are talking over 1/4 MPS. That is faster then any drag racer by a long run.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 16, 2015, 02:27:10 PM
Ah classic.
"Round Earth is fake. Prove me otherwise."
*proceeds to get pelted with dozens of pieces of definitive proof of a spherical Earth*
"Ouch, well it's unexplained, ow, b-but that doesn't mean anything, ouch, obviously they're all paid shills"

I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

Relative velocity.
The Earth is at a constant velocity, so anything a human does on it is relative. The velocity of the Earth can be completely discarded for any calculations done on the surface because of this. Why don't you think relative velocity exists? I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 16, 2015, 02:51:13 PM
Ah classic.
"Round Earth is fake. Prove me otherwise."
*proceeds to get pelted with dozens of pieces of definitive proof of a spherical Earth*
"Ouch, well it's unexplained, ow, b-but that doesn't mean anything, ouch, obviously they're all paid shills"

I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

Relative velocity.
The Earth is at a constant velocity, so anything a human does on it is relative. The velocity of the Earth can be completely discarded for any calculations done on the surface because of this. Why don't you think relative velocity exists? I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

Reletive velocity does exist. It is not relative to this situation. I'm talking about the force of momentium. If a person is running on a merry-go-round, that is spinning in the direction it is spinning, then that person suddenly stops I'm sure they would feel a large sudden change of momentium. If it wasn't spinning I think they would feel a very small change of momentium.I'm being as logical as I can be.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: kman on June 16, 2015, 03:21:56 PM
If running along a cruise ship and suddenly stop, do you feel it?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 16, 2015, 03:43:58 PM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.


I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

If we look at it completely zeteticly, without any bias, we still come to the same conclusion. My experience teaches me that the bigger the vehicle, the less motion is felt. When you are on a bike, you feel lots of motion. In a car, you feel motion, but less. On a plane, you feel very little motion except when accelerating. On a large cruise ship, you feel no motion at all. Earth is billions and billions of times bigger than a cruise ship, so logically you wouldn't feel any motion.

That's me being as open-minded as possible.

Just go out side and start running for a while, then suddenly stop. If the Earth is spinning over !/4 mps and you suddenly stop and the Earth keeps on spinning, you have to agree the Earth's momentium should at least knock you off balance.
You can't see that? Remember, we are talking over 1/4 MPS. That is faster then any drag racer by a long run.

Yeah, if you're running and suddenly come to a stop, the Earth's angular momentum will change very slightly, but not nearly enough for you or anyone else to notice - maybe one part in several million billion gazillion, depending on how fast you were running and how much you weigh. However, if someone else is running in the opposite direction and suddenly stops at the same time, your teeny tiny effects will oppose each other, so there would be even less change; on average, with everyone running around in all directions, it probably nets about zero; it certainly does average out to zero over time.

Your own momentum may cause you to fall over if you come to a stop fast enough, but that momentum gets returned to the Earth (from whence it initially came) whether your Keds come to a screeching halt with you still upright or if you do a face plant.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: markjo on June 16, 2015, 04:01:45 PM
I have been reading these forums for some time, been reading both sides of the arguments.

I have yet to see any proof of a globe earth.

I will debate anyone here bring it on.
There is an entire branch of earth science called geodesy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesy) that is dedicated to the study of the size and shape of the earth.  Not only does this involve measuring the roundness of the earth, it also involves measuring just how far out of perfectly round the earth is.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 16, 2015, 04:02:59 PM
If running along a cruise ship and suddenly stop, do you feel it?


Yes, I think I would if the ship was going 464 meters per second. Don't you?
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.


I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

If we look at it completely zeteticly, without any bias, we still come to the same conclusion. My experience teaches me that the bigger the vehicle, the less motion is felt. When you are on a bike, you feel lots of motion. In a car, you feel motion, but less. On a plane, you feel very little motion except when accelerating. On a large cruise ship, you feel no motion at all. Earth is billions and billions of times bigger than a cruise ship, so logically you wouldn't feel any motion.

That's me being as open-minded as possible.

Just go out side and start running for a while, then suddenly stop. If the Earth is spinning over !/4 mps and you suddenly stop and the Earth keeps on spinning, you have to agree the Earth's momentium should at least knock you off balance.
You can't see that? Remember, we are talking over 1/4 MPS. That is faster then any drag racer by a long run.

Yeah, if you're running and suddenly come to a stop, the Earth's angular momentum will change very slightly, but not nearly enough for you or anyone else to notice - maybe one part in several million billion gazillion, depending on how fast you were running and how much you weigh. However, if someone else is running in the opposite direction and suddenly stops at the same time, your teeny tiny effects will oppose each other, so there would be even less change; on average, with everyone running around in all directions, it probably nets about zero; it certainly does average out to zero over time.

Your own momentum may cause you to fall over if you come to a stop fast enough, but that momentum gets returned to the Earth (from whence it initially came) whether your Keds come to a screeching halt with you still upright or if you do a face plant.

That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 16, 2015, 04:31:43 PM
If running along a cruise ship and suddenly stop, do you feel it?


Yes, I think I would if the ship was going 464 meters per second. Don't you?
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.


I understand that if we are running along on Earth as it is spinning at 464 meters per second we wouldn't feel it until our bodies actually sense acceleration or change in speed. Well, if we suddenly sped up or down or comply stopped in our tracts we should feel something. With the Earth spinning at over 1/4 mile per second we might even fall down. Needless to say, I've never felt a thing. Now, if you look at this logically, which I believe you are a very logical person, can you not see any logic in my thought on this issue. I don't want you to dictate what you've read or been taught, just a straight honest answer using your logical mind.

If we look at it completely zeteticly, without any bias, we still come to the same conclusion. My experience teaches me that the bigger the vehicle, the less motion is felt. When you are on a bike, you feel lots of motion. In a car, you feel motion, but less. On a plane, you feel very little motion except when accelerating. On a large cruise ship, you feel no motion at all. Earth is billions and billions of times bigger than a cruise ship, so logically you wouldn't feel any motion.

That's me being as open-minded as possible.

Just go out side and start running for a while, then suddenly stop. If the Earth is spinning over !/4 mps and you suddenly stop and the Earth keeps on spinning, you have to agree the Earth's momentium should at least knock you off balance.
You can't see that? Remember, we are talking over 1/4 MPS. That is faster then any drag racer by a long run.

Yeah, if you're running and suddenly come to a stop, the Earth's angular momentum will change very slightly, but not nearly enough for you or anyone else to notice - maybe one part in several million billion gazillion, depending on how fast you were running and how much you weigh. However, if someone else is running in the opposite direction and suddenly stops at the same time, your teeny tiny effects will oppose each other, so there would be even less change; on average, with everyone running around in all directions, it probably nets about zero; it certainly does average out to zero over time.

Your own momentum may cause you to fall over if you come to a stop fast enough, but that momentum gets returned to the Earth (from whence it initially came) whether your Keds come to a screeching halt with you still upright or if you do a face plant.

That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

Heck, you're forgetting about the orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun, too! That's what, about 30 km/sec!?!  Can't forget that can we? Actually, yes, we can, because neither of these matter.

Say you're an Olympic sprinter and can run the 100m in 10 seconds. You're at the Equator and start sprinting due east. Your speed relative to the surface (10 m/sec) coupled with the tangential speed of the ground due to the rotation of the Earth of 464 m/sec means you're now zipping along at a whole 474 m/sec wrt the center of the Earth instead of 464. Wow! Come to an abrupt halt (wrt the surface), and you're back down to 464 m/sec. You slowed from 10 m/sec to zero with respect to the stuff around you? What's the big deal?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 16, 2015, 04:34:19 PM
Ok, lets try another way of thinking about it.  If you were on a train traveling at speed, doesn't really matter what it is.  You run forward with the train and stop, do you expect to feel all the momentum of that train on you at that instant?  No you would fly across the railcar.  If the train itself suddenly stopped though you would feel it.  Your motion relative to the train's motion would mean nothing as long as the train is in a constant motion with no acceleration or deceleration.
Also, understand that the 1000 mph figure is relative to the size of the Earth.  With a 24000 mile circumference, 1000 mph means one rotation per day.  Scale that down a bit for understand and see if you think something turning at 1 revolution per day would impart enough force on you that could be felt as you ride it? 
I thought I had covered this quite well in a couple of threads already.  I guess using math to explain something is rather incomprehensible to some here.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 16, 2015, 05:07:43 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.

Foucault pendulum is in no way evidence the earth is rotating. It's a suspended bob that moves, an unexplained phenomenon.
But it moves in a predictable pattern, which is based off of latitude. quite easy to explain. I saw one in France.
Quote
The suns behavior is also a mystery, as are it's origins, true size and distance.
No, it is no mystery at all. Quite explainable.

I see your best rebuttal is "It's unexplained"  I expected more.

It moves in a predictable pattern, ok that's fine. But that doesn't prove the earth is a ball and rotating.
You are still forgetting they are predictable based on latitude.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/6/1/b61b9c6cfd7b3c0b4aa3ea6be793194e.png)
where omega is angular speed and phi is latitude.
They made an observation which is repeatable, once again does not prove the earth is a spinning ball, just means people can repeat based on observation.

Quote
Also yes the sun's behavior is unexplained, you can't tell me how the sun got there, why it moves the way it does, how large it is, why it appears to be the same size as the moon, why it's gravity doesn't suck us in, and many more.
It got there because the earth formed around it.
Once again, a theory with no proof.
It moves the way it because because the earth is in an non circular orbit around it.
The sun has a circumference of 4.379x106km.
No proof that the sun is that big.
It is a coincidence that the sun and moon appear the same size.
We are in orbit around the sun, out velocity keeps us from falling in.
Ah yes the magical gravity and velocity that somehow keeps everything just in perfect order. Seems a bit convineint to me. I choose not to blindly believe what other's tell me and you call me stupid for it. Do you not see the irony here?
All explainable.
Quote
Also don't detract please, I want to see proof of a ball earth.

ISS HD Earth Viewing Experiment on USTREAM: ***QUICK NOTES ABOUT HDEV VIDEO*** Black Image = International Space Station (ISS) is on the night side of the ... (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iss-hdev-payload#)

...
I don't accept this as proof of anything. It can easily be faked.
If the earth is spinning at over 1000 miles an hour and we can't feel it because we are spinning with it, how exactly can the foucault pendulum defy this property and remain still while the earth supposedly spins underneath, have you really given this any critical thought, or are you just parroting what other's have told you?
The pendulum does spin with the earth, it just doesn't twist with the earth. There is no force acting on it to change it's swinging direction.

According to what I have read the earth supposedly spins underneath the pendulum. So if the earth is spinning at 1000 mph, shouldn't the pendulum be spinning that fast?
Quote
Use your brain and think for once.
I suggest you do the same.
You don't use your brain, you repeat what others have said. The funny thing is you think you are smart for doing so.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 16, 2015, 05:08:01 PM
Ok, lets try another way of thinking about it.  If you were on a train traveling at speed, doesn't really matter what it is.  You run forward with the train and stop, do you expect to feel all the momentum of that train on you at that instant?  No you would fly across the railcar.  If the train itself suddenly stopped though you would feel it.  Your motion relative to the train's motion would mean nothing as long as the train is in a constant motion with no acceleration or deceleration.
Also, understand that the 1000 mph figure is relative to the size of the Earth.  With a 24000 mile circumference, 1000 mph means one rotation per day.  Scale that down a bit for understand and see if you think something turning at 1 revolution per day would impart enough force on you that could be felt as you ride it? 
I thought I had covered this quite well in a couple of threads already.  I guess using math to explain something is rather incomprehensible to some here.


I respect what you say, but when you say, "Scale that down a bit for understand and see if you think something turning at 1 revolution per day would impart enough force on you that could be felt as you ride it?" You have to know that anything going .288 miles per second is going to be felt if an abrupt change occurs. Everyone simply looks at 1 revolution a day because most have never been .288 miles per second, including me. If the Earth did spin at 1000 MPH, I doubt the atmosphere would still be there and we would be sucked into space, if it is a vacuum.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 16, 2015, 05:12:01 PM
Ok, the 1000 mph BS again.  I gave everyone the calculations on how much force would be felt from the centripetal force of that turn.  It makes one rotation every 24 hours.  The force felt by the rotation of the Earth does have a very small effect on the pendulum.  This small force causes it to change its swing ever so slightly from its original path.  That 1000 mph when you are talking about something the size of the Earth will not exert much force on the things riding on it.
So a rebuttal of it's unexplained is not only incorrect, but rather lazy.

Sorry I prefer to think critically rather that just repeat what other's say.

So if the earth is spinning at 1000 miles per hour, and this pendulum is suspended in a way that the earth is spinning underneath why isn't it spinning at 1000 miles per hour?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 16, 2015, 05:27:26 PM
I have been reading these forums for some time, been reading both sides of the arguments.

I have yet to see any proof of a globe earth.

I will debate anyone here bring it on.

Ok, let's keep it simple.

1.  The higher you climb the further you can see.  This is not possible on a flat earth
That is simply because your line of sight perspective changes, you still have limits on how far you can see. This does not prove ball earth.
2. The horizon on a clear day is a sharp line, not a hazy blur.  On a flat earth the horizon is the vanishing point of visibility.
Pure assumption, atmosphere is a mixture of many different elements combined with your limited human perception easily explains horizon viewing limits. Does not prove ball earth.
3. Stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise about the South Celestial pole,   In the North stars rotate anti clockwise about the North Celestial pole,  two poles = globe.
If the earth is spinning in one direction the stars should spin the same way no matter what hemisphere you are in. Think about it. How does being in a different hemisphere affect what direction the earth is spinning? Are you saying the the earth spins backwards in the southern hemisphere?
4. The South Pole is a place you can visit.  Not some forbidden land with an ice wall, there is no edge.
Yes you can go on an expedition to the honorary south pole, but it's not the true south pole and you can't go all the way through it and come out on the other side.
5. From the Southern Hemisphere summer solstice to the winter solstice there is 24 hour daylight inside the Antarctic Circle.
This does not prove ball earth, in fact it contradicts it. If the earth is spinning and tilted towards the sun, then the antarctic should be having a day and a night, and not 24 hour sunlight. I want you to sit and look at a picture of the earth and really sit down and think about it. The south pole should get a full day of sunlight and a full night if the earth is a ball and spinning.
6  Distances in the Southern Hemisphere match exactly what you expect on a globe,  there is no flat earth map to explain this.
You go get your pilot's license, charter your plane, measure the distance traveled in the southern hemisphere. Go ahead I'll wait.
7. Satellites are in orbit,  and can be proven to be exactly where they are supposed to be.  GPS, Satellite TV, Satellite phones etc.  all work as expected.
The first TV broadcast was in 1929 long before the first satellite was launched into space. All those things can be achieved by radio towers, as they have been for many many years. Also get back to me with a link and a way I can actually track a satellite movement.
8. The South magnetic pole is a point at  S 63 30,  E 138,   which explains magnetic inclination,  a flat earth with South Magnetic pole underneath would have vertical inclination.
Once again assumption. Who is saying a south pole is underneath? Also are you telling me once you cross over the equator south that your compass points to the south pole? This is the first I've heard of this.
9. Differential levels can measure the earth's curvature directly and accurately. 
Differential levels of what? Sorry I'm not following you here.
10.  Geodetic surveys routinely correct for C+R,  curvature and refraction,  it's standard surveying practice.   
They correct for changes in the earth's landscape, does not prove a ball earth once again.

That should be enough to get you started.

And the killer,  no one has ever shown ANY evidence of a flat earth.
Still not seeing any evidence of ball earth either.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: theworldisalie on June 16, 2015, 05:31:44 PM
Ok, lets try another way of thinking about it.  If you were on a train traveling at speed, doesn't really matter what it is.  You run forward with the train and stop, do you expect to feel all the momentum of that train on you at that instant?  No you would fly across the railcar.  If the train itself suddenly stopped though you would feel it.  Your motion relative to the train's motion would mean nothing as long as the train is in a constant motion with no acceleration or deceleration.
Also, understand that the 1000 mph figure is relative to the size of the Earth.  With a 24000 mile circumference, 1000 mph means one rotation per day.  Scale that down a bit for understand and see if you think something turning at 1 revolution per day would impart enough force on you that could be felt as you ride it? 
I thought I had covered this quite well in a couple of threads already.  I guess using math to explain something is rather incomprehensible to some here.


I respect what you say, but when you say, "Scale that down a bit for understand and see if you think something turning at 1 revolution per day would impart enough force on you that could be felt as you ride it?" You have to know that anything going .288 miles per second is going to be felt if an abrupt change occurs. Everyone simply looks at 1 revolution a day because most have never been .288 miles per second, including me. If the Earth did spin at 1000 MPH, I doubt the atmosphere would still be there and we would be sucked into space, if it is a vacuum.

No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 16, 2015, 05:40:03 PM
Here is a picture of Earth taken on a mission that would require well over 1,000,000 conspirators to fake:

(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/cool-space-picture-5.jpg)

On top of that, the Moon is always seen from the same perspective reguardless of where you are on the Earth.
Sigma Octantus (the south star) is always south of the observer and only visible in the Southern Hemisphere.
The Sun sets and at the same time we have time zones, so you can't see the Sun at night but someone on another continent can see it.
I can see the International Space Station flying overhead and it looks like the station when I look at it with a telescope.
Check my forum signature for more.

I actually haven't seen a single flat Earth proof.

That picture is a joke. North Africa and Arabia are near the north pole? Really? They are quite warm you know.  ::)

It was taken from a low angle.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: kman on June 16, 2015, 05:40:59 PM
which seems to be completely unpredictable

It's actually completely predictable.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 16, 2015, 05:41:54 PM
Ok since you think I am just repeating what others say, and you do not understand the math, I will copy paste from some of my earlier posts.  It was dealing with the force that would "throw you off" the Earth from the 1000 mph speed.
Also the Earth isn't starting and stopping suddenly, you are riding on it.  Therefore, if you want to simulate that just think about the train example.  Your motion while on the train and the trains constant motion have no real bearing on each other.  You were already traveling at the speed of the train, you moved and then stopped relative to the train, therefore you would not "feel" the movement of the train in relation to what you do.  Yes I understand if the train is turning, or not on absolutely smooth rails, or not actually travelling at a constant speed you would feel those changes in velocities.  But we are talking about the Earth rotating at a constant rate (roughly, it is slowing down, and wobbling a bit). 
Lets do some fun math


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/e/9/9e97c67f2a3bf7cf050bcbc08f3d6ab9.png)

In the formula I posted above for centrifugal force, and Alpha showed earlier also I will use catboy's numbers:
So a is the centrifugal acceleration, aka the force trying to throw you off of the spinning Earth in this case.
And r is the radius of the Earth  ( 1/2 of 7,926.3352 miles then multiply by 5280 to get feet  = 20925524.928 ft)
And v is the velocity of the spin at the equator (1,037.554 mph multiply by 5280 to get ft per hour = 5478285.12 then divide by 3600 to get ft per second = 1521.746 ft per second)

This gives:
a = (1521.74 ft/s)2 / 20925524.928 ft
a = 2315692.6276 ft2/s2 / 20925524.928 ft
a = 0.1107 ft/s2

Gravity = 32.174 ft/s2
So what percent is that of gravity?
0.1107 ft/s2 /32.174 ft/s2
equals 0.00344
So 1/3 of 1 percent of the force of gravity reduced at the equator.

Amazing how math works.

If
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/e/9/9e97c67f2a3bf7cf050bcbc08f3d6ab9.png)

Then we could do a couple of things, first we could figure out what the velocity would have to be to overcome gravity. 
So lets figure out the velocity needed to overcome gravity.
So if
currently we showed
a = 0.1107 ft/s2 
we need something greater than 32.174 ft/s2
so we will use
a = 33.174 ft/s2
and
r =  20925524.928 ft

then to solve for v we would need to rearrange the formula

v2 = a*r      I multiplied both sides by r to move it from one side to the other.  I love how algebra works.

v2= 33.174 ft/s2 * 20925524.928 ft

v2 = 694183363.961472ft2/s2
take the square root of both sides

v = 26347.3597 ft/s
The diameter of Earth is 7,926.3352 miles according to catboy, I think its pretty close we should use it.
so divide v by 5280 ft to get miles (which would be per second for velocity here) (26347.3597 ft  / 5280 ft ) = 4.9902 miles per second (lets say 5 mps)
Multiply the 5 miles per second by 3600 to get mph  18000 miles per hour  (funny that close to what the ISS has to travel at to keep in orbit)
18000 miles an hour? The diameter of Earth is only 24,901.295401 miles.  So we would be seeing a full day and night in about 1.38 hours.  And that's basically barely counteracting the force of gravity at the equator.  Still not fast enough to throw us off really.  I guess as long as you were traveling at that velocity you could jump really high and as you slowed down you may sink back down to the Earth.  But hey lets just say that's where we need to be at.


Ok lets do a second scenario.  With the current rotational velocity what would the circumference have to be to overcome gravity?
Back to the formula above, we would rearrange it to be
r = v2 /a    If my algebra is correct.
So from the previous fun
a = 33.174 ft/s2
and
v = (1521.74 ft/s)2
v = 2315692.6276 ft2/s2

so   
r = 2315692.6276 ft2/s2 / 33.174 ft/s2

This gives us a radius of 69804.4441 ft.  Multiply that times 2 for the diameter
Diameter of 139608.8881 ft  divde this by 5280 for miles
In miles we have a diameter of 24 miles.  Wait???
Diameter times pi for the circumference gives 75.40 miles?????
So to keep the 1000 mph figure to have enough force to overcome (barely) gravity we have to be living on a world that is 75.4 miles around???

Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 16, 2015, 08:33:01 PM
No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.

JR? Zat you? Welcome back! I knew you couldn't stay away.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on June 16, 2015, 08:46:35 PM
Let's  take one at a time.


Ok, let's keep it simple.

1.  The higher you climb the further you can see.  This is not possible on a flat earth
That is simply because your line of sight perspective changes, you still have limits on how far you can see. This does not prove ball earth.


The limit on how far you can see in clear air is about 300 km,   IF the world was flat,   that would be the perspective vanishing point,  that is to say,  on a flat earth with a good telescope you could see things up to 300 km.  Climbing a hill would not change the limit of visibility, it is still going to be 300 km,   A few hundred meters in height  is not going to change the perspective of objects hundreds of km away.   

The only possible conclusion is that the earth is not flat.   You can test this yourself,  following Zetetic principles,  climb to the top of a nearby hill or tall building,  and see if you can see further,
If you can see further, the earth is not flat.




Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 17, 2015, 01:10:54 AM
No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.

F=MmG/d2 period, end of story, nothing more, that's it.  That is able to predict everything from tides to the motion of the Moon to the motion of the planets.  It can be used to predict an eclipse to the exact second, and you call it unpredictable.  Research much?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: tappet on June 17, 2015, 01:46:28 AM
No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.

F=MmG/d2 period, end of story, nothing more, that's it.  That is able to predict everything from tides to the motion of the Moon to the motion of the planets.  It can be used to predict an eclipse to the exact second, and you call it unpredictable.  Research much?
Interesting, as I do enjoy fishing could you show me how to use this formula to predict the tides?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 17, 2015, 02:47:51 AM
which seems to be completely unpredictable

It's actually completely predictable.

Completely predictable?  Lol.  Please, go learn a little something about astrophysics and research some of the theories that atempt to explain why gravitational calculations are so often wrong, especially at the galactic level.  Then, come back and join the Big boy discussion.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 17, 2015, 02:57:09 AM
No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.

F=MmG/d2 period, end of story, nothing more, that's it.  That is able to predict everything from tides to the motion of the Moon to the motion of the planets.  It can be used to predict an eclipse to the exact second, and you call it unpredictable.  Research much?

Oh great.  More misinformation from Mikeman.  Einstein and others have long ago proven that Newtonian Physics is only a close approximation when viewed from a very limited frame of reference.  Just because you were taught it in high school science class, that does not make it an absolute fact.  ::) 
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 17, 2015, 03:08:52 AM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 17, 2015, 03:16:17 AM
Completely predictable?  Lol.  Please, go learn a little something about astrophysics and research some of the theories that atempt to explain why gravitational calculations are so often wrong, especially at the galactic level.  Then, come back and join the Big boy discussion.
Oh great.  More misinformation from Mikeman.  Einstein and others have long ago proven that Newtonian Physics is only a close approximation when viewed from a very limited frame of reference.  Just because you were taught it in high school science class, that does not make it an absolute fact.  ::)

Oh great here we go. Genius jroa here to save us, nevermind his inaccurate or irrelevant statements.

Name one time the Universal Law of Gravitation has failed. And no we're not talking about the galactic level. Stop trying to derail the thread. This FEF debate does not concern the complexity of galactic motion. We already know that we know very little about galaxies and their motion. FE, RE, it doesn't matter, so stop bringing it up.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikewolf13 on June 17, 2015, 03:31:01 AM
which seems to be completely unpredictable

It's actually completely predictable.

Completely predictable?  Lol.  Please, go learn a little something about astrophysics and research some of the theories that atempt to explain why gravitational calculations are so often wrong, especially at the galactic level.  Then, come back and join the Big boy discussion.

If the sun is only 32 miles away...

if Nasa is a hoax...

if space exploration is all a lie...

Then all astrophysics must be a lie and therefore the galactic scale which you use to dismiss gravitational formulas does not exist. Thus proving gravity ,thus proving the world is round,  thus proving galactic scale is real...and....Jroa's paradox!

Or there are additional factors yet to be discovered that have an insignificant impact on small scale thus making the gravitiational equation very accurate. But will be even more accurate when we understand the additional factor.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 06:34:39 AM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.

What I'm trying to convay to you is very simple, you need no more than common sense. If the Earth is spinning over 1/4 miles per second, (that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s), and you are running on it and stop, the continuous spinning of the Earth will knock you down. In fact you couldn't even stand up if the Earth is spinning that fast. Please explain where I'm wrong.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sokarul on June 17, 2015, 07:43:58 AM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.

What I'm trying to convay to you is very simple, you need no more than common sense. If the Earth is spinning over 1/4 miles per second, (that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s), and you are running on it and stop, the continuous spinning of the Earth will knock you down. In fact you couldn't even stand up if the Earth is spinning that fast. Please explain where I'm wrong.
As already stated, this will not happen. If you are stopped on the equator, you are still moving at the 1,000mph. When you run at 15 mph you are really going 1015 mph. So when you stop you still only change 15 mph. You need to understand that frames of reference with a constant velocity are considered inertial. So physics still works no matter what the velocity. If an acceleration was present, it would be another story.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: markjo on June 17, 2015, 08:37:06 AM
which seems to be completely unpredictable

It's actually completely predictable.

Completely predictable?  Lol.  Please, go learn a little something about astrophysics and research some of the theories that atempt to explain why gravitational calculations are so often wrong, especially at the galactic level.  Then, come back and join the Big boy discussion.
Gravitational calculations failing at galactic levels does not indicate a failure in the scientific understanding of gravity.  Rather, the failing indicates a failure in the understanding of the nature of the matter that makes up galaxies.  But I'm sure that you already know this.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 08:57:25 AM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.

What I'm trying to convay to you is very simple, you need no more than common sense. If the Earth is spinning over 1/4 miles per second, (that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s), and you are running on it and stop, the continuous spinning of the Earth will knock you down. In fact you couldn't even stand up if the Earth is spinning that fast. Please explain where I'm wrong.
As already stated, this will not happen. If you are stopped on the equator, you are still moving at the 1,000mph. When you run at 15 mph you are really going 1015 mph. So when you stop you still only change 15 mph. You need to understand that frames of reference with a constant velocity are considered inertial. So physics still works no matter what the velocity. If an acceleration was present, it would be another story.

So, if I took a long treadmill going as fast as the Earth and somehow suspended it above the Earth, (no contact), and I was on it going 15 mph and suddenly I stopped in my tracks, granted it would be a decrease of 15 mph. But I argue that going 1000 mph on a treadmill is going to knock me off. My frame of reference is the treadmill with a constant velocity. Please explain why I'm wrong thinking this way because my mind keeps reminding me we are spinning .288 miles per second. That is how I see physics working.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 17, 2015, 09:32:42 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 09:46:00 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: kman on June 17, 2015, 09:53:22 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 10:13:12 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?

So, you say, "The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?".That means if the plane was traveling west to east and traveling the same speed as the Earth, you would be going along with the atmosphere and you wouldn't get blown off. Is this what you are saying?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: kman on June 17, 2015, 10:19:59 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?

So, you say, "The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?".That means if the plane was traveling west to east and traveling the same speed as the Earth, you would be going along with the atmosphere and you wouldn't get blown off. Is this what you are saying?

The plane is traveling at the same speed as the earth when it is not moving.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 17, 2015, 10:29:25 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?

So, you say, "The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?".That means if the plane was traveling west to east and traveling the same speed as the Earth, you would be going along with the atmosphere and you wouldn't get blown off. Is this what you are saying?
No, it's all about relative speeds.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 10:30:36 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?

So, you say, "The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?".That means if the plane was traveling west to east and traveling the same speed as the Earth, you would be going along with the atmosphere and you wouldn't get blown off. Is this what you are saying?

The plane is traveling at the same speed as the earth when it is not moving.

Okay if you think so. But my plane is above the Earth flying along the same speed as the Earth and in the same direction as the Earth, W to E. Also, as you say, the same moving atmosphere as here on Earth. Would a person be blown off the plane if he stood up? That is my question.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 17, 2015, 10:42:09 AM

Okay if you think so. But my plane is above the Earth flying along the same speed as the Earth and in the same direction as the Earth, W to E.
If it were going at the same speed as the earth, it wouldn't be going anywhere - it would be sat on the runway.

For a plane to move, it must be going at a speed relative to the earth.

Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 10:47:38 AM
@yendor, get on a fast moving train, run down the isle of a carriage, stop.

What happens?  Do you go flying off at 100mph?

Absolutely not Mr. Jimmy, please answer me this. If you are laying on the back of a jet airplane going 1000 mph and you stood up, would you get blown off. I hope your answer would be yes. If so, why don't you get blown around when you are standing on the surface of the Earth? After all the atmosphere is spinning with the Earth.

You would get blown off the plane because the air around the plan is not traveling with the plane. If you were inside a jet plane and stood up, you would not get blown off because the air inside the plane is traveling with the plane. The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?

So, you say, "The atmosphere is traveling with the earth, so you don't get blown off. Make sense?".That means if the plane was traveling west to east and traveling the same speed as the Earth, you would be going along with the atmosphere and you wouldn't get blown off. Is this what you are saying?
No, it's all about relative speeds.

Mr. Jimmy,

I respectfully disagree with you. I don't see being about relative speeds. To me it is about common sense. I'm setting up the same scenario as here on Earth except I'm using a plane for the Earth. It is traveling above the Earth, going the same speed and the same direction. Also, it would be traveling in the Earth's atmosphere so in esence it should feel only minor wind flow. If the person stood up would he get blown off?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 10:58:17 AM

Okay if you think so. But my plane is above the Earth flying along the same speed as the Earth and in the same direction as the Earth, W to E.
If it were going at the same speed as the earth, it wouldn't be going anywhere - it would be sat on the runway.

For a plane to move, it must be going at a speed relative to the earth.



Mr. jimmy,
Here you are correct. Relative speed is the answer. In order for a plane to move it must be going faster than the  Earth spinning. That is why they preset all speedometers 1000 mph while they are sitting still even though the speed only shows 0 mph.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sceptimatic on June 17, 2015, 11:16:03 AM
The biggest con that the globalites stick to is by using the plane/train analogy; but it's wrong and is an absolute deliberate con job that the naive actually adhere to like strong glue.

We are expected to believe that the air inside the plane is the atmosphere and the plane itself is the Earth. This would be fine in one respect, except that they use the Earth and the atmosphere as moving in unison, like the plane and internal atmosphere of the plane but then go on to mention the Earth and atmosphere moving the same against a vacuum.

So what is outside of the plane? Is it a vacuum?...no, it's another atmosphere that the plane is pushing into. A resistance. That external resistance is placed onto the external skin of the plane and so the person inside of the plane at a steady speed would feel no resistance of atmosphere.

It's a massive dupe but an easy one to actually see if people start to use their common sense. For some reason, people just don't seem to want to use it and simply accept the bullshit.
It seriously baffles me as to why people do this. Why abandon common sense to adhere to something so illogical as to be told that the atmosphere moves in unison with a solid Earth at over 1000 mph and yet something as heavy as a helicopter taking off and hovering, will simply be swept along at over 1000 mph with a solid Earth by being dragged by the atmosphere.

Also, a Felix Baumgartner, supposed red bull helium balloon with a supposed capsule attached, reaches a supposed height of 128,000 feet in which we were told that there was so little atmosphere that it was classed as a vacuum and yet the very same capsule lands a few hundred miles away after hours rising to this supposed height and all this as the supposed Earth is spinning at 1000 mph.

Common sense again should tell anyone that this near vacuum isn't going to drag a balloon and capsule along with the so called 1000 mph spinning Earth, so why wasn't the capsule picked up a few thousand miles away?

Why do people have to abandon basic common sense to stick to this rotating globe bullshit when it's so in your face clear that it's a massive con job.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 17, 2015, 11:23:17 AM
No the atmosphere remains in place because of the magic of gravity which seems to be completely unpredictable, have a mind of it's own, and affect objects of different mass and density, based on how it decides that it wants to.

Gravity sounds a lot like a wife to me.

F=MmG/d2 period, end of story, nothing more, that's it.  That is able to predict everything from tides to the motion of the Moon to the motion of the planets.  It can be used to predict an eclipse to the exact second, and you call it unpredictable.  Research much?
Interesting, as I do enjoy fishing could you show me how to use this formula to predict the tides?

That's easy.

The equation states that gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, and this means the side of the Earth closest to the Moon feels a stronger gravitational pull then the further side which makes the Earth stretch a bit towards the Moon.  The oceans are effected a lot more then the land because water is a liquid.  Given the exact mass of the Moon and the Earth, the distance between them, their rotation speed, and their size, it would be possible to calculate the exact amount the tides would rise and fall.  The math for this gets quite complicated but it's all derived from F=MmG/d2.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 17, 2015, 11:53:25 AM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.

What I'm trying to convay to you is very simple, you need no more than common sense. If the Earth is spinning over 1/4 miles per second, (that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s), and you are running on it and stop, the continuous spinning of the Earth will knock you down. In fact you couldn't even stand up if the Earth is spinning that fast. Please explain where I'm wrong.

The mere fact you say "(that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s)" tells me you still don't understand relative motion. If you did understand it, then 464 m/s of constant velocity NOT in your frame of reference is no problem at all. It doesn't affect you.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 12:24:47 PM
That all sounds good,but you are forgetting about speed. I don't care if you are on a big ball or the Earth. If you are spinning 464 meters per second and you suddenly stop, you will fall down. As you know this does not happen.

So I was correct in my assumption, you really don't understand relative motion.

You don't "stop", you go from 466 (or 462) m/s to 464 m/s if you're jogging at 2 m/s. You made this same mistake in your previous posts, assuming everything "stops" when you stop moving.  There is no "stop", the Earth will continue to spin at the same constant velocity.

If we want to use the cruise ship example again: If it's sailing at 8 m/s East, and you're running on the deck East at 2 m/s, and then you stop, you just go from 474 m/s to 472 m/s. No drastic changes in momentum here.

What I'm trying to convay to you is very simple, you need no more than common sense. If the Earth is spinning over 1/4 miles per second, (that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s), and you are running on it and stop, the continuous spinning of the Earth will knock you down. In fact you couldn't even stand up if the Earth is spinning that fast. Please explain where I'm wrong.

The mere fact you say "(that is damn fast, faster than the speed of sound, 340.29 m / s)" tells me you still don't understand relative motion. If you did understand it, then 464 m/s of constant velocity NOT in your frame of reference is no problem at all. It doesn't affect you.

Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 17, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

It may not be possible to explain in terms simple enough for you to understand. Dog and the others' explanations so far have been simple and clear. You seem to have problems understanding the difference between moving with an air mass and moving through an air mass. Maybe one of them can help you, but it's looking doubtful.

[Edit to add] sceptimatic, as usual, has it totally wrong, calls it logic, and insists he's right.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 17, 2015, 02:03:30 PM
Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

It may not be possible to explain in terms simple enough for you to understand. Dog and the others' explanations so far have been simple and clear. You seem to have problems understanding the difference between moving with an air mass and moving through an air mass. Maybe one of them can help you, but it's looking doubtful.

[Edit to add] sceptimatic, as usual, has it totally wrong, calls it logic, and insists he's right.

I'm sorry you find me a tough learner. I've never takern for granted what people tell me until I can get it firmly in my head. Saying all that, please try and help me understand this. Please explain to me the differences between the two air masses. One air mass is on Earth rotating 1000 mph and we don't feel it because we are going along with the Earths rotation. The other air mass is up in the sky, going the same speed as the air on the ground. The plane that is up in the sky is going the same speed, direction and the air is also going the same speed and direction as the air on Earth. If a person standing on Earth does not feel the fast moving air then that person on the plane also should not feel the fast moving air either. If you feel i'm wrong, then please expain why. I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 17, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 17, 2015, 02:35:38 PM
The roundies are very fond of comparing a person riding on a ball spinning at 1000 mph with a person riding on a train or plane.  While it is true that a person would not feel anything if they were traveling at a constant velocity, the thing that they fail or neglect to acknowledge is that, while riding around on a spinning ball, a person would, in fact, not have a constant velocity; the person would be perpetually accelerating.  And, as most of us science literate people on this forum know, people do actually feel acceleration. 

Another win for the FES!
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: sokarul on June 17, 2015, 03:03:15 PM
The roundies are very fond of comparing a person riding on a ball spinning at 1000 mph with a person riding on a train or plane.  While it is true that a person would not feel anything if they were traveling at a constant velocity, the thing that they fail or neglect to acknowledge is that, while riding around on a spinning ball, a person would, in fact, not have a constant velocity; the person would be perpetually accelerating.  And, as most of us science literate people on this forum know, people do actually feel acceleration. 

Another win for the FES!
You know the calculations were already done. The acceleration is too low to be felt.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 17, 2015, 03:12:34 PM
The roundies are very fond of comparing a person riding on a ball spinning at 1000 mph with a person riding on a train or plane.  While it is true that a person would not feel anything if they were traveling at a constant velocity, the thing that they fail or neglect to acknowledge is that, while riding around on a spinning ball, a person would, in fact, not have a constant velocity; the person would be perpetually accelerating.  And, as most of us science literate people on this forum know, people do actually feel acceleration.

You are half correct. As every person who is actually literate in science (instead of just claiming it) knows, vector components matter.

The Earth is spinning at 463 [m/sec]. This velocity is constant and angular.
Yes, you are also perpetually accelerating because of this "spinning ball". This is called centripetal acceleration and it's perpendicular to the rotating surface, inwards.

So
1) Yes you are accelerating, but this does not affect your constant velocity as the vector components are perpendicular.
2) I can already sense your simple thoughts: "Ok then why don't we FEEL the acceleration??"

Centripetal acceleration = v2/r

Rotational velocity = (2*pi*r)/T        where r is the radius of the Earth and T is the rotational period, so:

v = (2*pi*6371000[m])/86400[sec] = 463.3 [m/sec]        we put this back in the acceleration equation to obtain:

a = (463.3 [m/sec])2/6371000[m] = 0.0337 [m/sec2]

About 3.4 cm/sec2 of centripetal acceleration.....
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 01:03:13 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2015, 03:23:18 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mainframes on June 18, 2015, 04:45:45 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No

Yes
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 07:05:09 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 08:51:04 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 08:56:08 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.
How do you know it, is it your supervisor supply you with this information ?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 09:35:46 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.
How do you know it, is it your supervisor supply you with this information ?

Uh... are you saying that airplanes can hover at will, and I've been lied to about this? That's a new one!
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 09:41:08 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.
How do you know it, is it your supervisor supply you with this information ?

Uh... are you saying that airplanes can hover at will, and I've been lied to about this? That's a new one!
I just asked how you have such vast knowledge what did you do in life that you are "swim" in so many fields ?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 10:43:39 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 18, 2015, 11:04:50 AM
Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

I know this question is not directed at me but here is my reply.

The atmosphere moves with the Earth, meaning that if you are standing at the moving ground the moving air would seem to be sitting still.  A better analogy would be standing inside the plane going at 1,000 miles per hour where it will feel like any calm day because you and the air are moving at the same speed.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 11:08:50 AM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere.

No, I didn't miss that. It would be staying over a single spot on the surface. Isn't that "hovering"?

Quote
By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?

I do not agree that the scenario you describe is possible with a conventional airplane, so the question is moot. I do agree that, at least in principle, this would be possible with a levitating platform like a hovercraft of some type, or aerostat (e.g. hot-air balloon); in those cases, then yes, you can stand and walk around. This is assuming no practical limitations like stability, or a helicopter's downwash.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 11:09:13 AM
Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

I know this question is not directed at me but here is my reply.

The atmosphere moves with the Earth, meaning that if you are standing at the moving ground the moving air would seem to be sitting still.  A better analogy would be standing inside the plane going at 1,000 miles per hour where it will feel like any calm day because you and the air are moving at the same speed.
prove me the atmosphere move with the earth ?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 11:10:50 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Thanks for your articulate and convincing rebuttal. Care to elaborate further?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 11:11:57 AM
Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

I know this question is not directed at me but here is my reply.

The atmosphere moves with the Earth, meaning that if you are standing at the moving ground the moving air would seem to be sitting still.  A better analogy would be standing inside the plane going at 1,000 miles per hour where it will feel like any calm day because you and the air are moving at the same speed.
but you can tell the airplane is travel you feel the airplane you feel the air pockets it has definitive feel of traveling.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 11:12:51 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Thanks for your articulate and convincing rebuttal. Care to elaborate further?
god made the star moving anti-clockwise in the southern atmosphere because he thought it more beautiful - refute it.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 11:20:19 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Thanks for your articulate and convincing rebuttal. Care to elaborate further?
god made the star moving anti-clockwise in the southern atmosphere because he thought it more beautiful - refute it.
1. That's implying god exists, a premise you have no evidence of
2. Even if god does exist, you have no evidence to prove this is something he thought
3. This is an argument from ignorance
4. Saying god "just does it" does not solve the impossible geometry that has to warp space somehow
5. You could use this argument to "prove" anything, including a round Earth

I'd like a rebuttal from another FE'er, I do not feel like debating religion.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: modestman on June 18, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Thanks for your articulate and convincing rebuttal. Care to elaborate further?
god made the star moving anti-clockwise in the southern atmosphere because he thought it more beautiful - refute it.
1. That's implying god exists, a premise you have no evidence of
2. Even if god does exist, you have no evidence to prove this is something he thought
3. This is an argument from ignorance
4. Saying god "just does it" does not solve the impossible geometry that has to warp space somehow
5. You could use this argument to "prove" anything, including a round Earth

I'd like a rebuttal from another FE'er, I do not feel like debating religion.
do you have a proof for gravity that doesn't involve with logical fallacy not to mention logical fallacy is mind game that has nothing to do with real life only science with no real life evidence only mind game.
you asked for other explanation I gave you other explanation it is valid even though I have no direct evidence.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 12:03:12 PM
You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Dammit everyone else beat me to it  ;D

The Earth is spinning at 1000 mph. The atmosphere is moving with it at 1000 mph. If your airplane is moving in the same direction at 1000 mph, relative to the Earth is is not moving! To be moving at the same exact speed as the Earth (1000 mph), your airplane has to be on the ground not moving. If airplanes could hover (a few can), then yes it "feels no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day", because it's not moving through the atmosphere. You're on the right track.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 12:12:05 PM
Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere. By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

I know this question is not directed at me but here is my reply.

The atmosphere moves with the Earth, meaning that if you are standing at the moving ground the moving air would seem to be sitting still.  A better analogy would be standing inside the plane going at 1,000 miles per hour where it will feel like any calm day because you and the air are moving at the same speed.
prove me the atmosphere move with the earth ?

Nothing to prove. That was Yendor's premise for the scenario. I highlighted it for you.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 18, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
but you can tell the airplane is travel you feel the airplane you feel the air pockets it has definitive feel of traveling.

If an airplane sitting still on the ground moved as if it were experiencing turbulence and stuff then it would feel like you are moving, and if a flying airplane perfectly maintained it's velicity then it would feel stationary.

Have you ever been on a train waiting to leave the station when the train next to you starts moving?  At first you think that you are moving and you start feeling like you are moving but then the train passes and you realize that it was moving and not you.  The feeling of motion is entirely placebo, you cannot sense motion and you "feel" it when you know/think you are moving.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 12:31:03 PM
Southern circumpolar stars alone prove the Earth is round.

No
Thanks for your articulate and convincing rebuttal. Care to elaborate further?
god made the star moving anti-clockwise in the southern atmosphere because he thought it more beautiful - refute it.
1. That's implying god exists, a premise you have no evidence of
2. Even if god does exist, you have no evidence to prove this is something he thought
3. This is an argument from ignorance
4. Saying god "just does it" does not solve the impossible geometry that has to warp space somehow
5. You could use this argument to "prove" anything, including a round Earth

I'd like a rebuttal from another FE'er, I do not feel like debating religion.
do you have a proof for gravity that doesn't involve with logical fallacy not to mention logical fallacy is mind game that has nothing to do with real life only science with no real life evidence only mind game.
you asked for other explanation I gave you other explanation it is valid even though I have no direct evidence.
Completely irrelevant. Typical flat Earth deflection. I didn't ask for any explanation, I asked for a rebuttal.

Southern circumpolar stars prove that the Earth is round. OP? Want to take a bite?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 12:32:10 PM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere.

No, I didn't miss that. It would be staying over a single spot on the surface. Isn't that "hovering"?

Quote
By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?

I do not agree that the scenario you describe is possible with a conventional airplane, so the question is moot. I do agree that, at least in principle, this would be possible with a levitating platform like a hovercraft of some type, or aerostat (e.g. hot-air balloon); in those cases, then yes, you can stand and walk around. This is assuming no practical limitations like stability, or a helicopter's downwash.

Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 12:46:40 PM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere.

No, I didn't miss that. It would be staying over a single spot on the surface. Isn't that "hovering"?

Quote
By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?

I do not agree that the scenario you describe is possible with a conventional airplane, so the question is moot. I do agree that, at least in principle, this would be possible with a levitating platform like a hovercraft of some type, or aerostat (e.g. hot-air balloon); in those cases, then yes, you can stand and walk around. This is assuming no practical limitations like stability, or a helicopter's downwash.

Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

The answer to your question is one you seem to be skipping over every time we answer.

The plane is already moving 1000mph since it is moving with the Earth on the ground. When it takes off, it doesn't matter whether it's going 1000mph in any direction, it's going to be moving 1000mph relative to Earth's surface. It's that simple. Since the rotation of Earth doesn't accelerate or decelerate, any object which is on the planet will not be magically stop moving if it jumps into the air, in the same way if you jump inside of a train that is not decelerating or accelerating, you will land on the same spot- you won't stop moving relative to the ground.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 18, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

An airplane taking off is not moving with the exact same velocity as the Earth, it's moving a little bit faster or slower or in a slightly different direction.  If an airplane is taking off going 200 miles per hour then it's velocity is 100 miles per hour different from the velocity of the Earth.  Try going in a moving train/plane/car and throwing a paper airplane in any direction, it will still fly just fine.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 01:14:46 PM
Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

An airplane taking off is not moving with the exact same velocity as the Earth, it's moving a little bit faster or slower or in a slightly different direction.  If an airplane is taking off going 200 miles per hour then it's velocity is 100 miles per hour different from the velocity of the Earth.  Try going in a moving train/plane/car and throwing a paper airplane in any direction, it will still fly just fine.

Mr. Mikeman I agree with everything you wrote. But tell me this, If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction, (W to E), could you throw that paper airplane out the window and it would fly just fine. Now I realize you can't easily open a window, let's just pretend we had to break it out. I'm under the impression that if all conditions, relative to the Earth, are the same then the paper airplane will fly just fine. What do you think?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 01:21:53 PM
Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

An airplane taking off is not moving with the exact same velocity as the Earth, it's moving a little bit faster or slower or in a slightly different direction.  If an airplane is taking off going 200 miles per hour then it's velocity is 100 miles per hour different from the velocity of the Earth.  Try going in a moving train/plane/car and throwing a paper airplane in any direction, it will still fly just fine.

Mr. Mikeman I agree with everything you wrote. But tell me this, If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction, (W to E), could you throw that paper airplane out the window and it would fly just fine.

By definition, the plane would not be moving at all. If something is literally moving the same speed as the ground is, well then that means you're standing still relative to the ground.

So, the plane would be falling from the sky very quickly.

But why does the plane have to be in the air? If the plane isn't moving relative to the ground, then why can't the plane just be sitting on the runway with the window open? Or better yet, why does there have to be a plane at all in that case? Your question makes little sense.

Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: 33pi on June 18, 2015, 01:23:44 PM
Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

An airplane taking off is not moving with the exact same velocity as the Earth, it's moving a little bit faster or slower or in a slightly different direction.  If an airplane is taking off going 200 miles per hour then it's velocity is 100 miles per hour different from the velocity of the Earth.  Try going in a moving train/plane/car and throwing a paper airplane in any direction, it will still fly just fine.

Mr. Mikeman I agree with everything you wrote. But tell me this, If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction, (W to E), could you throw that paper airplane out the window and it would fly just fine. Now I realize you can't easily open a window, let's just pretend we had to break it out. I'm under the impression that if all conditions, relative to the Earth, are the same then the paper airplane will fly just fine. What do you think?
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2015, 01:48:40 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 01:52:03 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.

Nice to know you have no idea how southern circumpolar stars work on a flat Earth.

Also what do you mean "the higher you fly the higher you go?" And what does that have to do with a round Earth?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 01:55:55 PM
Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused. I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still? It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

Thanks for your honest answer. I've enjoyed our conversing.
Yendor

An airplane taking off is not moving with the exact same velocity as the Earth, it's moving a little bit faster or slower or in a slightly different direction.  If an airplane is taking off going 200 miles per hour then it's velocity is 100 miles per hour different from the velocity of the Earth.  Try going in a moving train/plane/car and throwing a paper airplane in any direction, it will still fly just fine.

Mr. Mikeman I agree with everything you wrote. But tell me this, If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction, (W to E), could you throw that paper airplane out the window and it would fly just fine.

By definition, the plane would not be moving at all. If something is literally moving the same speed as the ground is, well then that means you're standing still relative to the ground.

So, the plane would be falling from the sky very quickly.

But why does the plane have to be in the air? If the plane isn't moving relative to the ground, then why can't the plane just be sitting on the runway with the window open? Or better yet, why does there have to be a plane at all in that case? Your question makes little sense.



Thank you Jet Fission for your answer. I agree with you, to a casual observer it does make little sense. Let me explain. Your answer is the exact answer I was looking for because most believe the Earth is spinning and the atmosphere is spinning along with the Earth. You see, I don't believe this. Because you believe a plane sitting on the runway is the same as a plane flying 1000 mph, the same speed as the Earth, going west to east and flying in the same atmosphere we breath everyday would be in essence the same as sitting on the run way. Now really think about this, I'm sure you've watched jet planes take off and land alot of times. I would venture to say many planes have flown 1000 mph, probably the exact same speed as the Earth spinning. I'm sure they have done this flying west to east and we know they fly in the Earth's atmosphere. You have to realize this. So tell me again why these planes will fall from the sky.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 01:56:56 PM
Mr. Mikeman I agree with everything you wrote. But tell me this, If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction, (W to E), could you throw that paper airplane out the window and it would fly just fine. Now I realize you can't easily open a window, let's just pretend we had to break it out. I'm under the impression that if all conditions, relative to the Earth, are the same then the paper airplane will fly just fine. What do you think?

If it "maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction" then the plane is not moving relative to the ground. It's just floating. If your plane can hover, so it doesn't crash, then yeah the paper airplane you throw out the window will fly just fine. Why wouldn't it? It would be the same as throwing a paper airplane while standing on the ground.

But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

And why would you think that....?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2015, 02:06:43 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.

Nice to know you have no idea how southern circumpolar stars work on a flat Earth.

Also what do you mean "the higher you fly the higher you go?" And what does that have to do with a round Earth?

Prove it! Be aware that your argument has been debunked several times already. Just, do a search on this and the other forum.

The higher you are on a ball the longer the distance you have travel to keep up with the ball.

There is no point to discuss all these things over and over again. Just do your own long distance observations or choose the theory you like most.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
Thank you Jet Fission for your answer. I agree with you, to a casual observer it does make little sense. Let me explain. Your answer is the exact answer I was looking for because most believe the Earth is spinning and the atmosphere is spinning along with the Earth. You see, I don't believe this. Because you believe a plane sitting on the runway is the same as a plane flying 1000 mph, the same speed as the Earth, going west to east and flying in the same atmosphere we breath everyday would be in essence the same as sitting on the run way. Now really think about this, I'm sure you've watched jet planes take off and land alot of times. I would venture to say many planes have flown 1000 mph, probably the exact same speed as the Earth spinning. I'm sure they have done this flying west to east and we know they fly in the Earth's atmosphere. You have to realize this. So tell me again why these planes will fall from the sky.

- Not flying, hovering. If your plane is stationary or hovering, only then is it going the same speed as the Earth.
- If a plane is flying relative to the Earth 1000 mph, then it's not going the same speed as the Earth anymore.

Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 02:14:28 PM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere.

No, I didn't miss that. It would be staying over a single spot on the surface. Isn't that "hovering"?

Quote
By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?

I do not agree that the scenario you describe is possible with a conventional airplane, so the question is moot. I do agree that, at least in principle, this would be possible with a levitating platform like a hovercraft of some type, or aerostat (e.g. hot-air balloon); in those cases, then yes, you can stand and walk around. This is assuming no practical limitations like stability, or a helicopter's downwash.

Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused.

Yes, we know. We're trying to help. We need you to help, too, if we're going to make any progress.

Quote
I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still?

No. It means you need to pick a frame of reference and stay with it. You're flitting between ECI (Earth-Centered Inertial, i.e. centered on the center of the Earth and not spinning) and topocentric (centered on a fixed point on the surface, and using its local level and north for reference; this frame is spinning and moving in a circle wrt ECI) frames. It looks like you're trying to confuse everyone, and succeeding only in confusing yourself and maybe a few of the other flat-earthers (presuming that you actually do believe what you're saying and aren't just being a jackass).

Pick one, but only one, frame of reference and stay with it. If you do, the conundrum you're trying to create vanishes.

Quote
It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

If you're considering the 1000 mi/hr circumferential speed of the Earth at the Equator, you're using ECI. Fine. A plane taking off starts at 1000 mi/hr (not moving wrt the ground or the air in our scenario) and increases its speed by 1000 mi/hr flying eastward; it now has a circumferential speed of 2000 mi/hr (it started at 1000 mi/hr and increased its speed by 1000 mi/hr, remember? 1000 mi/hr + 1000 mi/hr = 2000 mi/hr) while the air around it and the ground below remains at 1000 mi/hr; its airspeed and ground speed are 1000 mi/hr (2000 mi/hr - 1000 mi/hr).

If you prefer to work in topocentric coordinates (most people do), the plane starts at zero mi/hr relative to the ground, takes off and increases its speed by 1000 mi/hr flying eastward. The air around it and the ground are still at zero, so its airspeed and ground speed are 1000 mi/hr. You ignore the rotational speed of the Earth when working in topocentric coordinates.

It's not hard to understand unless you want it to be.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 02:19:40 PM
Because you believe a plane sitting on the runway is the same as a plane flying 1000 mph,

No, I don't, if you mean relative to the ground. A plane sitting on the runway is moving 0mph relative to the ground, which is what we commonly use to measure speed. When you drive a car you don't measure the speed your travelling +-the rotational speed of Earth, because that doesn't matter. You measure your speed relative to the ground.

It wouldn't make much sense to factor in your speed relative to the universe when it comes to these things. You could factor in the speed of Earth orbiting the Sun, the Sun orbiting the Milky Way, and the speed of the Milky Way through the universe. You'd get a number in the tens of millions. A completely pointless number.

No. On Earth, we measure speed relative to the ground because it makes sense.

I would venture to say many planes have flown 1000 mph, probably the exact same speed as the Earth spinning. I'm sure they have done this flying west to east and we know they fly in the Earth's atmosphere. You have to realize this. So tell me again why these planes will fall from the sky.

Again. They are already moving 1000mph on the ground, because they are spinning with the Earth. When they take off, they take off with that already 1000mph of velocity that isn't factored in any ground speed indicator. If a plane is moving 1000mph west to east then the plane would be moving 1000mph relative to the ground, and 2000mph if you factor in the rotation of Earth. If a plane is moving 1000mph from east to west it is moving 1000mph relative to the ground, but 0mph if you factor in the rotation of Earth. It will still be moving 1000mph though, and still arrive at its destination.

But if you formulate the question like you did: "If there was a way to pull an airplane up off the ground a few hundred feet and have it maintained the exact speed as the Earth spinning, going the same direction" then you literally mean the plane is moving 0mph relative to the ground. In which case, the plane would fall from the sky.

Now, if you mean that it maintained 1000mph plus Earth's rotation, then of course it would still fly. It would be moving 1000mph relative to the ground of course, and 2000mph if you factor in the rotation of Earth. But either way, it's moving 1000mph through the air (not factoring in winds and such). If you throw a paper airplane out the window the behavior won't be any different if you were moving any other direction- you're still just moving 1000mph.


Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 02:23:21 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.

Nice to know you have no idea how southern circumpolar stars work on a flat Earth.

Also what do you mean "the higher you fly the higher you go?" And what does that have to do with a round Earth?

Prove it! Be aware that your argument has been debunked several times already. Just, do a search on this and the other forum.

The higher you are on a ball the longer the distance you have travel to keep up with the ball.

There is no point to discuss all these things over and over again. Just do your own long distance observations or choose the theory you like most.

Prove what? I didn't even make an argument?

Why would you want to "keep up" with the rotation of the planet? Do you mean if you're on a mountain, you would be moving faster than if you were at sea level? Yeah, you would move a little faster, in the same way all of us acknowledge that the rotation speed at the equator is faster than that on the poles.... so what?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 02:44:31 PM
Come on Mr. Dog, I understand when you throw a ball up in a moving car you can catch it. This is not what i'm talking about. Simply tell me why I can't catch that same ball if I throw it up while on on the back of a jet plane, flying in the sky. The conditions are the same as the Earth only NOT relative to the Earth because of the planes height above the Earth, same speed and same direction, (west to east). Also, the plane is flying in the Earth's atmosphere on a very calm day, so it would feel the same atmosphere as a person feels on Earth, hardly any breeze at all. Please explain your answer in layman's terms.

Is the plane going the same speed as the Earth (464 m/s) in the same direction as the Earth is spinning?


Yes, Mr Dog. The plane is exactly simulating the Earth in all regards. In fact you could say it is geostationary. Only it is not in space. it is in the atmosphere. Because the person is riding on the back of the plane, they would be in the same system as they would be as if they were on the ground on a fine day. They should be able to stand up and walk around the plane's back without even falling down or be blown off by the wind. The samme as we do on Earth. Can you picture what I mean and do you think my assessment is correct?

Airplanes, with very few exceptions, can't hover, which is what you're describing. If you're on top of, say, a hovering V-22 Osprey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey), then, sure, you could stand up and walk around on top of it (presuming you can avoid the downwash and turbulence from the props, and the plane was steady enough). Why wouldn't you be able to do that?

Traditional fixed-wing aircraft generate the lift they need to stay aloft by flying through the air at high speed. If airspeed is zero, the plane falls out of the sky because there's no lift, so what you describe can't happen (absent a headwind strong enough to be above stall speed); even if the groundspeed is zero, your airspeed must be well above it.

You can stand and walk around in an open basket suspended below a hot-air balloon while aloft. Because those do hover if there's no wind, as you describe. You're riding along, suspended in the air, over a fixed spot on Earth. If there is wind, you move slowly over the Earth along with it.


Alpha2Omega,

You must have missed it when I said the plane was going the same speed as the Earth, around 1000 mph. In other words the plane was staying in sync with the Earth. Similar to a  DirecTV satellite, only in Earth's atmosphere.

No, I didn't miss that. It would be staying over a single spot on the surface. Isn't that "hovering"?

Quote
By matching Earth's speed and direction and because the atmosphere is going along with the Earth's spin, it should feel no different on the back of the plane as it does standing on Earth any normal calm day. Simply please tell me if you agree or not.

Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?

I do not agree that the scenario you describe is possible with a conventional airplane, so the question is moot. I do agree that, at least in principle, this would be possible with a levitating platform like a hovercraft of some type, or aerostat (e.g. hot-air balloon); in those cases, then yes, you can stand and walk around. This is assuming no practical limitations like stability, or a helicopter's downwash.

Alpha2Omega,
Great, now we are getting somewhere. Your answer,

 "Since the surface of the Earth, the aircraft, and the air are all traveling in the same direction at the same speed, there's no relative motion between them, so no airflow above and below the airplane's wings, so the airplane's wings can develop no lift. How does it stay aloft?"

I certainly agree with you, there would be no relative motion. the plane would definitely not stay aloft. infact it wouldn't get off the ground.

However I'm still a little confused.

Yes, we know. We're trying to help. We need you to help, too, if we're going to make any progress.

Quote
I've see planes take off and land my whole life and I'm pretty sure some of them have gone the same speed as the earth, (1000 mph), the same direction as the Earth spinning and in the same Earth's atmosphere and I'm very sure their wings develope lift because I see them land.

Could any of this mean the Earth is not spinning at all and just sitting still?

No. It means you need to pick a frame of reference and stay with it. You're flitting between ECI (Earth-Centered Inertial, i.e. centered on the center of the Earth and not spinning) and topocentric (centered on a fixed point on the surface, and using its local level and north for reference; this frame is spinning and moving in a circle wrt ECI) frames. It looks like you're trying to confuse everyone, and succeeding only in confusing yourself and maybe a few of the other flat-earthers (presuming that you actually do believe what you're saying and aren't just being a jackass).

Pick one, but only one, frame of reference and stay with it. If you do, the conundrum you're trying to create vanishes.

Quote
It must be or the planes we see everyday wouldn't be worth much if they can't fly.

If you're considering the 1000 mi/hr circumferential speed of the Earth at the Equator, you're using ECI. Fine. A plane taking off starts at 1000 mi/hr (not moving wrt the ground or the air in our scenario) and increases its speed by 1000 mi/hr flying eastward; it now has a circumferential speed of 2000 mi/hr (it started at 1000 mi/hr and increased its speed by 1000 mi/hr, remember? 1000 mi/hr + 1000 mi/hr = 2000 mi/hr) while the air around it and the ground below remains at 1000 mi/hr; its airspeed and ground speed are 1000 mi/hr (2000 mi/hr - 1000 mi/hr).

If you prefer to work in topocentric coordinates (most people do), the plane starts at zero mi/hr relative to the ground, takes off and increases its speed by 1000 mi/hr flying eastward. The air around it and the ground are still at zero, so its airspeed and ground speed are 1000 mi/hr. You ignore the rotational speed of the Earth when working in topocentric coordinates.

It's not hard to understand unless you want it to be.


Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Tom on June 18, 2015, 03:02:59 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.

Nice to know you have no idea how southern circumpolar stars work on a flat Earth.

Also what do you mean "the higher you fly the higher you go?" And what does that have to do with a round Earth?

Prove it! Be aware that your argument has been debunked several times already. Just, do a search on this and the other forum.

The higher you are on a ball the longer the distance you have travel to keep up with the ball.

There is no point to discuss all these things over and over again. Just do your own long distance observations or choose the theory you like most.

Prove what? I didn't even make an argument?

Why would you want to "keep up" with the rotation of the planet? Do you mean if you're on a mountain, you would be moving faster than if you were at sea level? Yeah, you would move a little faster, in the same way all of us acknowledge that the rotation speed at the equator is faster than that on the poles.... so what?

You asked a question and I reply.
Why are you acting so aggressively?

I stop this conversation. Believe what you want. Good luck!
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 03:03:20 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph.

Again, I feel like this was a really good way to put it, read it again carefully:
Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Jet Fission on June 18, 2015, 03:05:50 PM
I don't know if other people have this confusion but I certainly do. Do you mean the plane is moving at 1000mph relative to the Earth or not? Because if it is not relative, then as has been mentioned, the plane cannot fly as it is not moving, relative to the Earth.


The RE-believers believe that the earth, the atmosphere and everything in it is rotating at the same speed. But of course the higher you fly the faster you go.

They cannot prove it. That's why it's called a belief.

Nice to know you have no idea how southern circumpolar stars work on a flat Earth.

Also what do you mean "the higher you fly the higher you go?" And what does that have to do with a round Earth?

Prove it! Be aware that your argument has been debunked several times already. Just, do a search on this and the other forum.

The higher you are on a ball the longer the distance you have travel to keep up with the ball.

There is no point to discuss all these things over and over again. Just do your own long distance observations or choose the theory you like most.

Prove what? I didn't even make an argument?

Why would you want to "keep up" with the rotation of the planet? Do you mean if you're on a mountain, you would be moving faster than if you were at sea level? Yeah, you would move a little faster, in the same way all of us acknowledge that the rotation speed at the equator is faster than that on the poles.... so what?

You asked a question and I reply.
Why are you acting so aggressively?

I stop this conversation. Believe what you want. Good luck!

Then don't use that "argument" if you can't even prove it.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 03:18:46 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph.

Again, I feel like this was a really good way to put it, read it again carefully:
Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.



Sir,

What you say, "If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph." is correct. This is the way I look at it. It sound like you think the plane would crash by saying it is floating, correct.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 03:22:18 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph.

Again, I feel like this was a really good way to put it, read it again carefully:
Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.



Sir,

What you say, "If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph." is correct. This is the way I look at it. It sound like you think the plane would crash by saying it is floating, correct.

Yes, this is correct. A floating plane (moving 1000 mph if viewed from outer space), will crash. Unless it is a V-22 Osprey or Harrier.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 04:08:25 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

That 1000 mi/hr (approximately) tangential speed you cite is at the equator. At New York's latitude, this would be about 760 mi/hr, but whatever.

Airplanes can't hover[nb]Ignoring very unusual special cases like the Osprey.[/nb], which is what you describe. It will crash. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Quote
It's not hard to understand unless you want it to be.

You must want to not understand. What point are you trying to make here? The only thing that's becoming apparent is you're being (intentionally, I hope) extremely dense.
 
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 04:22:09 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph.

Again, I feel like this was a really good way to put it, read it again carefully:
Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.



Sir,

What you say, "If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph." is correct. This is the way I look at it. It sound like you think the plane would crash by saying it is floating, correct.

Yes, this is correct. A floating plane (moving 1000 mph if viewed from outer space), will crash. Unless it is a V-22 Osprey or Harrier.

Ok, we've established something. Simply tell me this, have you ever been in a plane going 1000 mph, have you seen jet planes take off and land, do you believe a military jet can take off go to 1000 mph and travel W->E and safely land back on the runway? If you answer Yes to most of these questions, then tell me why our discussed plane would crash if was simply observed from outer space.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 18, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. ,Alpha20mega

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?


That 1000 mi/hr (approximately) tangential speed you cite is at the equator. At New York's latitude, this would be about 760 mi/hr, but whatever.

Airplanes can't hover[nb]Ignoring very unusual special cases like the Osprey.[/nb], which is what you describe. It will crash. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Quote
It's not hard to understand unless you want it to be.

You must want to not understand. What point are you trying to make here? The only thing that's becoming apparent is you're being (intentionally, I hope) extremely dense.
 

Alpha20mega,

Sir, I assure you I'm not being dense. I admit i'm not real educated in physics, but I do know some other things. My point to this dicsussion is me trying to wrap my head around the belief, of some, the Earth is spinning. This is something I can't fathem and i'm only offering a scenario the best way I can. I'm hoping someone can explain, my given scenario, in terms I can understand why people like you guys can believe the Earth actually does spin. I'm not looking for quotes from books or what you were taught in school, just good old common sense answers. Because I like common sense.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: The Ellimist on June 18, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. Alpha20mega,

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?

If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph.

Again, I feel like this was a really good way to put it, read it again carefully:
Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For the plane sitting on the runway or hovering above the runway you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For the plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see: An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that, so the velocities add.



Sir,

What you say, "If you're not talking about relative to the Earth (as if you were observing from space) like you say, and it's "syncronized to the Earth" moving at 1000mph in W->E direction, then to someone on the ground the plane is floating. It's syncronized with the ground, which means it's floating over one spot, and that spot is moving at 1000 mph." is correct. This is the way I look at it. It sound like you think the plane would crash by saying it is floating, correct.

Yes, this is correct. A floating plane (moving 1000 mph if viewed from outer space), will crash. Unless it is a V-22 Osprey or Harrier.

Ok, we've established something. Simply tell me this, have you ever been in a plane going 1000 mph, have you seen jet planes take off and land, do you believe a military jet can take off go to 1000 mph and travel W->E and safely land back on the runway? If you answer Yes to most of these questions, then tell me why our discussed plane would crash if was simply observed from outer space.
It really isn't that hard to get. A plane that takes off and goes 1000mph is actually going 1000mph faster than the Earth. If your plane is just sitting there, it is going 1000mph along with everything else. If it is going 1000mph in the air, it is not moving in the air. If a plane is not moving in the air......
(http://i.imgur.com/xtkWS.gif)
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 18, 2015, 05:32:02 PM
Mr, Dog and Mr. ,Alpha20mega

I see your points and I agree. However, I'm not talking about relative to the Earth. I'm talking about syncronized to the Earth. Like a Geosyncronized satellite only in flying in Earths atmosphere. My plane has a sight cross hair and is set on the statue of Liberty. This cross hair is tied into the planes controls and the plane is going the same speed and direction(W to E) as the Earth below. The planes should be going around 1000 mph, feeling only mild air flow similar to what would be on Earth, only up in the sky. Or it would come crashing down. What do you think?


That 1000 mi/hr (approximately) tangential speed you cite is at the equator. At New York's latitude, this would be about 760 mi/hr, but whatever.

Airplanes can't hover[nb]Ignoring very unusual special cases like the Osprey.[/nb], which is what you describe. It will crash. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Quote
It's not hard to understand unless you want it to be.

You must want to not understand. What point are you trying to make here? The only thing that's becoming apparent is you're being (intentionally, I hope) extremely dense.
 

Alpha20mega,

Sir, I assure you I'm not being dense.

I assure you you are. The question is whether it's an act or not.

Quote
I admit i'm not real educated in physics, but I do know some other things. My point to this dicsussion is me trying to wrap my head around the belief, of some, the Earth is spinning. This is something I can't fathem and i'm only offering a scenario the best way I can. I'm hoping someone can explain, my given scenario, in terms I can understand why people like you guys can believe the Earth actually does spin. I'm not looking for quotes from books or what you were taught in school, just good old common sense answers. Because I like common sense.

What is it that you don't understand that's already been explained?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 18, 2015, 07:09:25 PM
I know someone has said this already, but you do realize that aircraft measure air speed, that is to say speed through the air.  The relative motion thing is what is confusing you right now. 
Also someone mentioned the higher you go the faster you are traveling.  This is somewhat true if you are holding a stationary spot above a rotating sphere.  The further you are from the center the faster you are going to maintain that same line to the center.  The problem is that is completely unrelated to what the discussion is about and it still is a failure of seeing the relative speed.  The atmosphere is moving with the spin of the Earth, for the most part.  It is still all relative to ground level though.  so if you are on the surface at the equator you are moving relative to the axis of rotation, at 1000 mph.  This is ignoring the revolution of the Earth around the Sun and the Revolution of the Sun around the galactic center. 

But that is also not something we should be getting off onto right now.  Back to what I explained about the train scenario, and yes jroa I use it because it is somewhat valid and i know you have no refutation for it therefore you want to dismiss it.  Anyway, the Earth is moving at a constant speed in relation to the rotation.  You, the plane, the air are all moving with that rotation.  It isn't starting, stopping, drastically accelerating or decelerating.  What you "feel" as motion while in a jet, a plane, a car,a train, etc. is the change in velocity.  Be it vector (direction) or speed.  If you are moving at a constant rate, in the same direction, you will not feel the motion because you are moving with it.
The hovering plane scenario is well, whatever we will go with it.  It is hovering above the statue of liberty.  From a frame of reference from the surface of the Earth it is sitting still.  From a frame of reference that is not moving with the Earth it is moving with the Earth.  If it were hovering above the surface, you could walk around on it easily because it is not moving through the air.  It is moving with the air.  Airplanes, once again, measure speed through the air or over the ground.  That is your frame of reference, if it is moving at 1000 mph airspeed, it is moving throught the air at 1000 mph.  The air is moving with the Earth therefore if it is moving in the same direction as the rotation of the Earth, then from a frame of reference outside the rotation of the Earth it is moving 2000 mph with the Earth turning under it at 1000 mph.  Relative to the Earth it is moving 1000mph.  Lets use 500 mph instead for a second time through.  plane, flying at 500 mph with the rotation of the Earth, from an observation point outside of the rotation of the Earth is traveling at 1500 mph, from the ground it is 500 mph, the Earth from outside is moving at 1000 mph the plane adds 500 mph equals 1500 mph.  From the ground 500 mph because the observation point is moving at 1000 mph with it.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on June 18, 2015, 07:37:42 PM
All things considered,  Yendor has managed to derail a thread that would have been a good debate.   What's more he trolled mercilessly with responses so stupid that it hurts to think at that level.   
I say it's time for Yendor to piss off and go back to feeding the pigs.   Everyone is now wise to the act.

I'm still waiting for a response to "The higher you climb the further you can see."



Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Dog on June 18, 2015, 11:39:10 PM
My point to this dicsussion is me trying to wrap my head around the belief, of some, the Earth is spinning.

That's the thing, you don't have to. Because of relative motion, you can completely forget about the fact that you, the atmospere, and Earth are all spinning at ludicrous speed. When you're in a car going down the highway with cruise control(constant velocity), do you try to "wrap your head around" how the highway speed effects the donut on your center console? No. Because it's irrelevant and not in your reference frame.

Ok, we've established something. Simply tell me this, have you ever been in a plane going 1000 mph, have you seen jet planes take off and land, do you believe a military jet can take off go to 1000 mph and travel W->E and safely land back on the runway? If you answer Yes to most of these questions, then tell me why our discussed plane would crash if was simply observed from outer space.

Because that's not the same plane. The plane we observed from outer space was hovering. Remember? It was only 9 posts ago.

If a plane "takes off and goes to 1000 mph in a W->E direction" it's not floating anymore. It's also not synchronized with the Earth anymore. It's going faster than the surface, so it's going faster than 1000mph, 2000mph to be exact.

You're confusing 2 planes. Read this again slowly. If you get confused and want to make another post, READ IT AGAIN.

Let's take a step back and go to the outer reference frame. You are now floating in space and you see two planes on Earth.

For a plane sitting on the runway (or hovering above the runway) you see:   An airplane on the surface of the Earth (or hovering above it), and the surface is rotating at 1000 mph. So the plane, in the outer space frame, is going 1000 mph because it's stuck to the surface which is moving that fast. On the ground it wouldn't be moving.

For a plane taking off and going 1000 mph soon after you see:   An airplane moving above the surface of the Earth. If it's going W->E then the plane looks like it's going 2000 mph, because the surface is already going 1000 mph and the plane is going 1000 mph faster than that. This plane is not hovering.

Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: charles bloomington on June 19, 2015, 02:54:45 AM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.
No its evidence there is torque occuring at the pivot point , the same as any other movement & pivot point .
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mainframes on June 19, 2015, 05:01:51 AM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.
No its evidence there is torque occuring at the pivot point , the same as any other movement & pivot point .

Then what is applying the torque? And why does the pendulum trace through 360 degrees in exactly one day?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Alpha2Omega on June 19, 2015, 06:34:52 AM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.
No its evidence there is torque occuring at the pivot point , the same as any other movement & pivot point .

What causes that torque?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Yendor on June 19, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
All things considered,  Yendor has managed to derail a thread that would have been a good debate.   What's more he trolled mercilessly with responses so stupid that it hurts to think at that level.   
I say it's time for Yendor to piss off and go back to feeding the pigs.   Everyone is now wise to the act.

I'm still waiting for a response to "The higher you climb the further you can see."






Mr. Razor,
I guess I did derail this thread and I offer my apologizes. I'll try to be more attentive from now on. How did you know I have pigs? Just kidding I don't, but I do have some laying hens. So I better piss off and go feed them.

Yendor
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 19, 2015, 03:52:10 PM
So in the face of about every way that it could be explained to you, you decide that it still must be false and now you are off the fence.  Yep solid logic there Yendor.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 19, 2015, 06:13:31 PM
Foucault Pendulum is evidence the earth is rotating. They are latitude dependent, which is only possible on a round earth.

The sun does not appear to get smaller as it gets further away. Only possible if it's a great distance away.
No its evidence there is torque occuring at the pivot point , the same as any other movement & pivot point .

...

Are you serious?  You have to be trolling at this point.  While you are at it how about you question the color of the sky.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 19, 2015, 06:43:13 PM
He clearly doesn't understand what torque is.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 19, 2015, 09:25:31 PM
He clearly doesn't understand what torque is.

Add that to the already lengthy list of things he doesn't understand.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: jeroenymo on June 20, 2015, 05:32:05 PM
if ive read correctly, the flat earth model has the north pole in the center, and the south pole is actually the edge of the flat disk. Well have you ever taken a flight from new zealand to chile? it takes 12 hours, considering normal plane speed that makes it around 10000km proven. In the flat earth model, new zealand and chile are nearly on opposite sides of the disk. Reaching further than 10000km from eachother.

Furthermore, on a flat earth map, australia is about the same size as Russia. Again you can look at flight times to have easily accessible proof this is not the case.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on June 22, 2015, 09:12:24 AM
Yep, been mentioned before.  The most interesting answer to this was sleeping gas and the flight crew changing everything that would keep time for you.  Also add in the sheer stupidity of people to not understand how timezones work so they are confused when they land, enough to keep the conspiracy going.
Or, all of those flights are lies, that one was awesome too, since I was on one a few years back. 
Or, jetstreams, perfectly boost your speed when traveling in the southern hemisphere, no matter which way you are going.  Yep, multiple intelligent jetstreams. 
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: hoyhoy5 on July 07, 2015, 02:39:06 PM
Guys, sorry to bring up again this old topic, I just have quick question regarding the hovering effect of, say, a helicopter. Why isn't it considered a "freely moving object"? Such as in how cannon balls are considered freely moving objects regarding the Coriolis effect. Is it due to the atmosphere dragging the helicopter along? And if so, wouldn't the atmosphere also drag along the cannon ball? I would love to be enlightened in this question.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Mikey T. on July 07, 2015, 03:31:59 PM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air. 
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: hoyhoy5 on July 07, 2015, 07:02:55 PM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: BJ1234 on July 07, 2015, 07:42:02 PM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?
Here is the thing, we are traveling, at the equator, at 1000mph with the earth.  If we jump, we are still traveling at the 1000mph and continue on the same direction.  It is just like if you drop a ball while traveling in a bus, the ball drops straight down to our feet.  It doesn't fly back at 50mph.

The coriolis effect is for an object that is moving either away from, or towards, the equator.  The ground is traveling at a slower rate further away from the equator.

So if you threw a ball far enough away from the equator, the ball would still have the initial 1000mph east/west movement yet the ground underneath that point would be only traveling at, say, 990mph.  Thus it would actually appear to an observer at that point that the ball would be traveling away from them, in the east/west direction, at 10mph.

Here is a good youtube video explaining coriolis.

(http://)
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: hoyhoy5 on July 07, 2015, 08:06:37 PM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?
Here is the thing, we are traveling, at the equator, at 1000mph with the earth.  If we jump, we are still traveling at the 1000mph and continue on the same direction.  It is just like if you drop a ball while traveling in a bus, the ball drops straight down to our feet.  It doesn't fly back at 50mph.

The coriolis effect is for an object that is moving either away from, or towards, the equator.  The ground is traveling at a slower rate further away from the equator.

So if you threw a ball far enough away from the equator, the ball would still have the initial 1000mph east/west movement yet the ground underneath that point would be only traveling at, say, 990mph.  Thus it would actually appear to an observer at that point that the ball would be traveling away from them, in the east/west direction, at 10mph.

Here is a good youtube video explaining coriolis.

(http://)

I think you actually explained it better than the video. But I atill have a few questions, if you don't mind answering them.

Does the air, traveling at the rotational speed of say 990mph, interfere much with the object thrown away from the equator, which is at a rotational speed of 1000mph?

why is there this deflection difference between the south and north hemisphere?

And last, why would the object start rotating, exactly? Would it still travel along the Earth at the local rotational speed (990mph) or at its original speed (1000mph)?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: BJ1234 on July 07, 2015, 08:45:26 PM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?
Here is the thing, we are traveling, at the equator, at 1000mph with the earth.  If we jump, we are still traveling at the 1000mph and continue on the same direction.  It is just like if you drop a ball while traveling in a bus, the ball drops straight down to our feet.  It doesn't fly back at 50mph.

The coriolis effect is for an object that is moving either away from, or towards, the equator.  The ground is traveling at a slower rate further away from the equator.

So if you threw a ball far enough away from the equator, the ball would still have the initial 1000mph east/west movement yet the ground underneath that point would be only traveling at, say, 990mph.  Thus it would actually appear to an observer at that point that the ball would be traveling away from them, in the east/west direction, at 10mph.

Here is a good youtube video explaining coriolis.

(http://)

I think you actually explained it better than the video. But I atill have a few questions, if you don't mind answering them.

Does the air, traveling at the rotational speed of say 990mph, interfere much with the object thrown away from the equator, which is at a rotational speed of 1000mph?
I am sure it does, however, I would not know how much, or even if it is significant or not.
Quote
why is there this deflection difference between the south and north hemisphere?
To me, it seems it is because you have turned around.  For example, say you are stopped on the street while crossing it.  This is a one way street with two lanes.  You stop on the line between the lanes.  If you are facing the way you were going, the cars are going coming from your left.  If you turn around and face the way you came from , the cars are coming from your right.
Quote
And last, why would the object start rotating, exactly? Would it still travel along the Earth at the local rotational speed (990mph) or at its original speed (1000mph)?
Not sure if I am understanding the question here.  Could you please try and make it a bit clearer what you are looking for?
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: hoyhoy5 on July 07, 2015, 09:12:34 PM
In the video, it was stated that the deflected object, or fluid, tends to rotate as it goes to the right/left more and more. I just wanted some more insight regarding this phenomenon.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on July 07, 2015, 09:34:55 PM
In the video, it was stated that the deflected object, or fluid, tends to rotate as it goes to the right/left more and more. I just wanted some more insight regarding this phenomenon.

As you move away from the equator the diameter changes  ( the distance to the axis of rotation )  this continues until you reach the north or south pole where you are standing on the axis of rotation, and if you stood still,  you would complete one revolution in 24 hours.   

I did a diagram showing why weather systems rotate different directions in north and south hemispheres.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/526x480q90/r/540/G6CDET.jpg)

The change from 1600 kph to zero takes place over  10,000 km  so it would be on average a change of 16 kph  every 100 km,  or in 10 km it would be 1.6 kph  depending on latitude.

Still,  it's enough to affect a cannon firing long distances when accuracy is important,   and of course large things like weather systems.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Master_Evar on July 08, 2015, 01:24:03 AM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?

We are. If we manage to jump perfectly straight up, we would end up an unimaginable distance over to the west, and if we are in the northen hemisphere and jump forwards, we will end up an unimaginable distance to the right (and of course to the left in the southern hemisphere).
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on July 08, 2015, 02:16:22 AM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?

We are. If we manage to jump perfectly straight up, we would end up an unimaginable distance over to the west, and if we are in the northen hemisphere and jump forwards, we will end up an unimaginable distance to the right (and of course to the left in the southern hemisphere).

Ummm No.  If you jump perfectly straight up, you would come down exactly where you started.    You don't move anywhere relative to the earth.   





Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Master_Evar on July 08, 2015, 02:58:16 AM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?

We are. If we manage to jump perfectly straight up, we would end up an unimaginable distance over to the west, and if we are in the northen hemisphere and jump forwards, we will end up an unimaginable distance to the right (and of course to the left in the southern hemisphere).

Ummm No.  If you jump perfectly straight up, you would come down exactly where you started.    You don't move anywhere relative to the earth.   

If we have two circles, one large and one small, and they spin at the exact same speed, the larger circle is going to take a longer time to make on full turn. When we jump, we go from a smaller circle to the larger circle, so we are going to lag behind, even if we move at the exact same speed.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: JerkFace on July 08, 2015, 05:25:06 AM
Because the helicopter is hovering in the air and a canon ball is flying through the air.  Meaning that helicopter is using the air as a cushion of sorta since it is the lift from the rotors pushing air down so it is moving with the air.

I see. Thank you. So, in thecnical terms, could we also conclude we, when we jump, are temporarely freely moving objects? Or not?

We are. If we manage to jump perfectly straight up, we would end up an unimaginable distance over to the west, and if we are in the northen hemisphere and jump forwards, we will end up an unimaginable distance to the right (and of course to the left in the southern hemisphere).

Ummm No.  If you jump perfectly straight up, you would come down exactly where you started.    You don't move anywhere relative to the earth.   

If we have two circles, one large and one small, and they spin at the exact same speed, the larger circle is going to take a longer time to make on full turn. When we jump, we go from a smaller circle to the larger circle, so we are going to lag behind, even if we move at the exact same speed.


The larger circle still takes 24 hours to complete a full 360 degree rotation.    But you are correct in that the speed is slightly different,  not that you would ever know, since everything is moving with you including the air.    The actual difference in velocity by jumping up 1 meter would be  0.0002 kph  ( caused by a change in radius from 6371000, to 6371001 meters)  but you'd never know, because the air and everything else is moving with you.

There is an effect that can be seen on a global scale and that is a banding effect, similar to the atmospheric banding that occurs on Jupiter,  which is much bigger and rotating faster.
Title: Re: There is absolutely no proof of a globe earth. Period.
Post by: Salviati on July 08, 2015, 06:44:18 AM
There IS a proof of a globe earth. It was already pointed out by Rayzor and Jet Fission. I never ever did read a convincing response to this proof from flat earthers.

I'm talking about the rotation of the celestial dome around both North Celestial Pole and South Celestial Pole. When facing this argument usually flat earthers get lost or they answer with a random bullshit. There is no way to grasping at straws trying to explain this. This observation alone destroys all flat earth theories for good.

The rotation of the dome around two celestial poles is possible only if we live on a sphere PERIOD.

Dear fellows fe'ers, did you understand the question? Are you zetetic, meaning you believe only what you see with your own eyes? Well, let's go zetetic.

In the northern emisphere if you observe the stars for some hours at night you notice that they rotate around a point.

In the southern emisphere if you observe the stars for some hours at night you notice that they rotate around a point.

And, i would add, the angular distance between stars doesn't change, and this too you can see with your own eyes.

Well, your turn fellows fe'ers, explain how the hell is possible this fact on a flat earth.