The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: Scroto Gaggins on April 22, 2015, 03:18:46 AM

Title: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on April 22, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
i've been mulling this one over for a while.
I thought that as, from our perspective, the horizon is a circle, with our viewpoint being the radius, wouldn't the edge of the circle, from our point of view, be flat.

The horizon would only be curved if there was a difference in altitude of the points on the horizon. (As, for the frame of reference that we have on the ground, the earth is essentially flat)
A way to see this is when looking at a theoretical ocean. Theoretical as there is no tides, and no obstruction on the horizon.
If one were to look directly north, and swivel clockwise, the horizon should remain an unbroken line.
This is demonstrable. So, if we see that, in our frame of reference, the horizon is flat, then flat-earthers can no longer use this as proof of the earths flatness.

Thoughts?

Question: If I am wrong (not unlikely :P ), then what form would the horizon take on a theoretical perfect sphere?

And I am not assuming that the earth is a sphere, I have proof. Sunsets. I have not seen any reason or explanation of how this would occur on a flat earth.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 22, 2015, 05:38:07 AM
if you think things like sunsets have not been answered on a flat earth, you have not been looking for an answer. it has been dealt with several times, most recently by dual earth theory.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on April 22, 2015, 11:57:31 PM
if you think things like sunsets have not been answered on a flat earth, you have not been looking for an answer. it has been dealt with several times, most recently by dual earth theory.

He has asked what form would the horizon take on a theoretical perfect sphere?
In a round earth universe we say it will seem flat, I believe he is asking Flat Earth people to answer.
JRowe, saying you have dealt with it is in no way an answer to the question, as the moderators keep saying "This is a Q&A section"
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 23, 2015, 02:13:18 AM
i've been mulling this one over for a while.
I thought that as, from our perspective, the horizon is a circle, with our viewpoint being the radius, wouldn't the edge of the circle, from our point of view, be flat.

The horizon would only be curved if there was a difference in altitude of the points on the horizon. (As, for the frame of reference that we have on the ground, the earth is essentially flat)
A way to see this is when looking at a theoretical ocean. Theoretical as there is no tides, and no obstruction on the horizon.
If one were to look directly north, and swivel clockwise, the horizon should remain an unbroken line.
This is demonstrable. So, if we see that, in our frame of reference, the horizon is flat, then flat-earthers can no longer use this as proof of the earths flatness.

Thoughts?

Question: If I am wrong (not unlikely :P ), then what form would the horizon take on a theoretical perfect sphere?

And I am not assuming that the earth is a sphere, I have proof. Sunsets. I have not seen any reason or explanation of how this would occur on a flat earth.
The thing  is you are actually debunking REers talking rubbish. You keep thinking, and soon you will be one of us.
I have found that REers generally believe you can see left to right curvature while standing on a beach.
Here is just one example do we need more?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214)
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Mikey T. on April 23, 2015, 02:26:34 AM
A very few think they can see curvature from the ground, or in an airplane.  Only a very few.  Most people who can think for themselves can understand and conceptualize things like how large the Earth really is when compared to a human believe that the Earth is round.  Also most flat Earth people cannot do this conceptualization.  They have problems with things they cannot touch and see from their own little world.  Which is why it is scary to them and they need a conspiracy for it to make sense.  Some big bad evil that they are secretly fighting against, like freedom fighters who are the Saturday morning cartoon type of heroes.
Sorry, I left those things behind when I was a child, I got out and learned things, the world is not such a scary place and there is no one out there trying to get me.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on April 23, 2015, 02:42:16 AM
A very few think they can see curvature from the ground, or in an airplane.  Only a very few.  Most people who can think for themselves can understand and conceptualize things like how large the Earth really is when compared to a human believe that the Earth is round.  Also most flat Earth people cannot do this conceptualization.  They have problems with things they cannot touch and see from their own little world.  Which is why it is scary to them and they need a conspiracy for it to make sense.  Some big bad evil that they are secretly fighting against, like freedom fighters who are the Saturday morning cartoon type of heroes.
Sorry, I left those things behind when I was a child, I got out and learned things, the world is not such a scary place and there is no one out there trying to get me.
But is my logic sound?
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on April 23, 2015, 02:44:05 AM
i've been mulling this one over for a while.
I thought that as, from our perspective, the horizon is a circle, with our viewpoint being the radius, wouldn't the edge of the circle, from our point of view, be flat.

The horizon would only be curved if there was a difference in altitude of the points on the horizon. (As, for the frame of reference that we have on the ground, the earth is essentially flat)
A way to see this is when looking at a theoretical ocean. Theoretical as there is no tides, and no obstruction on the horizon.
If one were to look directly north, and swivel clockwise, the horizon should remain an unbroken line.
This is demonstrable. So, if we see that, in our frame of reference, the horizon is flat, then flat-earthers can no longer use this as proof of the earths flatness.

Thoughts?

Question: If I am wrong (not unlikely :P ), then what form would the horizon take on a theoretical perfect sphere?

And I am not assuming that the earth is a sphere, I have proof. Sunsets. I have not seen any reason or explanation of how this would occur on a flat earth.
The thing  is you are actually debunking REers talking rubbish. You keep thinking, and soon you will be one of us.
I have found that REers generally believe you can see left to right curvature while standing on a beach.
Here is just one example do we need more?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214)
Well, yes and no.
The main reason why people say the earth is flat is because it looks that way.
I have shown (hopefully :P ) that this is possible on a round earth.
Ergo, that piece of evidence can no longer be used for proof of the earths flatness.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 23, 2015, 02:48:38 AM
A very few think they can see curvature from the ground, or in an airplane.  Only a very few.  Most people who can think for themselves can understand and conceptualize things like how large the Earth really is when compared to a human believe that the Earth is round.  Also most flat Earth people cannot do this conceptualization.  They have problems with things they cannot touch and see from their own little world.  Which is why it is scary to them and they need a conspiracy for it to make sense.  Some big bad evil that they are secretly fighting against, like freedom fighters who are the Saturday morning cartoon type of heroes.
Sorry, I left those things behind when I was a child, I got out and learned things, the world is not such a scary place and there is no one out there trying to get me.
Do I need to post more links to threads showing that REers believe you can see curvature, I am yet to find one post from a FEer claiming you can see this curvature.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 23, 2015, 02:50:58 AM
i've been mulling this one over for a while.
I thought that as, from our perspective, the horizon is a circle, with our viewpoint being the radius, wouldn't the edge of the circle, from our point of view, be flat.

The horizon would only be curved if there was a difference in altitude of the points on the horizon. (As, for the frame of reference that we have on the ground, the earth is essentially flat)
A way to see this is when looking at a theoretical ocean. Theoretical as there is no tides, and no obstruction on the horizon.
If one were to look directly north, and swivel clockwise, the horizon should remain an unbroken line.
This is demonstrable. So, if we see that, in our frame of reference, the horizon is flat, then flat-earthers can no longer use this as proof of the earths flatness.

Thoughts?

Question: If I am wrong (not unlikely :P ), then what form would the horizon take on a theoretical perfect sphere?

And I am not assuming that the earth is a sphere, I have proof. Sunsets. I have not seen any reason or explanation of how this would occur on a flat earth.
The thing  is you are actually debunking REers talking rubbish. You keep thinking, and soon you will be one of us.
I have found that REers generally believe you can see left to right curvature while standing on a beach.
Here is just one example do we need more?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61112.msg1587214#msg1587214)
Well, yes and no.
The main reason why people say the earth is flat is because it looks that way.
I have shown (hopefully :P ) that this is possible on a round earth.
Ergo, that piece of evidence can no longer be used for proof of the earths flatness.
What you have shown is that REers standing on a beach actually don't know what the f--k they are looking at.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 23, 2015, 02:55:25 AM
Now Mr Scroto,
At what height do you say we can see curvature?
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on April 23, 2015, 04:24:32 AM
Now Mr Scroto,
At what height do you say we can see curvature?
Given a sufficient FOV, curvature is measurable from a commercial aircraft (35,000 ft):

http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf (http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf)
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on April 23, 2015, 05:15:51 AM
Now Mr Scroto,
At what height do you say we can see curvature?
I guess we should run some experiments to see, won't we?
 :D 
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 23, 2015, 01:25:43 PM
Now Mr Scroto,
At what height do you say we can see curvature?
I guess we should run some experiments to see, won't we?
 :D
Your starting to sound like me.
Yes, we should run some experiments. We would have to include a straight edge in all images to be genuine with this.
What do you think?
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: mikeman7918 on April 23, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
In a flat Earth in order for the horizon to be exactaly at eye level the hypothetical ocean would have to be infinite or the observer would have to have a height of zero.  On a round Earth the same thing applies, either it's infinitely large or the observer has a height of zero.  However, sense we can't measure with infinite acuracy it would be possible to have a horizon apear to be eye level on both a round or flat earth as long as the observer is close to ground level and the Earth is really big.

This is not to say that flat Earth theory is possible, see the first link (and the second one too if you are daring) to figure out why a flat earth can be disproven by simply observing the horizon and the sky.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Mikey T. on April 23, 2015, 04:27:17 PM
A very few think they can see curvature from the ground, or in an airplane.  Only a very few.  Most people who can think for themselves can understand and conceptualize things like how large the Earth really is when compared to a human believe that the Earth is round.  Also most flat Earth people cannot do this conceptualization.  They have problems with things they cannot touch and see from their own little world.  Which is why it is scary to them and they need a conspiracy for it to make sense.  Some big bad evil that they are secretly fighting against, like freedom fighters who are the Saturday morning cartoon type of heroes.
Sorry, I left those things behind when I was a child, I got out and learned things, the world is not such a scary place and there is no one out there trying to get me.
Do I need to post more links to threads showing that REers believe you can see curvature, I am yet to find one post from a FEer claiming you can see this curvature.
Do you honestly believe that you have enough RE supporters on this site to adequately be a sample size of the worlds population?  Since the vast majority of the world knows the Earth is round anyway.  There are some who mistakenly believe you could do this, but they probably have never been to the ocean to see for themselves.

Why would a FE say they see a curvature?  It goes against what they are failing miserably trying to prove.

You are once again grasping at straws and misrepresenting things.  I will say it again, you are failing quite bad at this, do you still wish to continue trying to debate?
 
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: tappet on April 24, 2015, 01:56:44 AM
A very few think they can see curvature from the ground, or in an airplane.  Only a very few.  Most people who can think for themselves can understand and conceptualize things like how large the Earth really is when compared to a human believe that the Earth is round.  Also most flat Earth people cannot do this conceptualization.  They have problems with things they cannot touch and see from their own little world.  Which is why it is scary to them and they need a conspiracy for it to make sense.  Some big bad evil that they are secretly fighting against, like freedom fighters who are the Saturday morning cartoon type of heroes.
Sorry, I left those things behind when I was a child, I got out and learned things, the world is not such a scary place and there is no one out there trying to get me.
Do I need to post more links to threads showing that REers believe you can see curvature, I am yet to find one post from a FEer claiming you can see this curvature.
Do you honestly believe that you have enough RE supporters on this site to adequately be a sample size of the worlds population?  Since the vast majority of the world knows the Earth is round anyway.  There are some who mistakenly believe you could do this, but they probably have never been to the ocean to see for themselves.

What you have said here makes no sense.
Have another crack at it.
 Oh I nearly forgot, I would just like to thank my RE supporters for your support.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: Scroto Gaggins on April 24, 2015, 02:09:00 AM
Can everyone just remember that this isn't a debate thread.
And the purpose of this thread is not to see whether or not the horizon is flat, it is to eliminate this from the discussion.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: mikeman7918 on April 24, 2015, 09:12:25 AM
In a flat Earth in order for the horizon to be exactaly at eye level the hypothetical ocean would have to be infinite or the observer would have to have a height of zero.  On a round Earth the same thing applies, either it's infinitely large or the observer has a height of zero.  However, sense we can't measure with infinite acuracy it would be possible to have a horizon apear to be eye level on both a round or flat earth as long as the observer is close to ground level and the Earth is really big.

This is not to say that flat Earth theory is possible, see the first link (and the second one too if you are daring) to figure out why a flat earth can be disproven by simply observing the horizon and the sky.
Title: Re: Would the horizon still be flat if the earth was round?
Post by: robintex on April 24, 2015, 11:09:19 AM
In a flat Earth in order for the horizon to be exactaly at eye level the hypothetical ocean would have to be infinite or the observer would have to have a height of zero.  On a round Earth the same thing applies, either it's infinitely large or the observer has a height of zero.  However, sense we can't measure with infinite acuracy it would be possible to have a horizon apear to be eye level on both a round or flat earth as long as the observer is close to ground level and the Earth is really big.

This is not to say that flat Earth theory is possible, see the first link (and the second one too if you are daring) to figure out why a flat earth can be disproven by simply observing the horizon and the sky.

I have seen one explanation of the horizon on a flat earth:
"The horizon simply fades away in the distance." Is this the correct flat earth explanation of the horizon on a flat earth ?

The horizon is always in clear view (with exceptions for for darkness,  smoke, fog or some other atmospheric condition.)

The distance to the horizon can be computed from the height of the observer. If you have ever been to sea, this is something that you take for granted and that you have learned to estimate the distance to the horizon from a formula taking into account the height of the observer and then put this to use by personal observation. This is one of the reasons for crow's nests and radar antennas to be placed at the highest points on a ship to enable the observer or the radar to see the farthest distance to the horizon.

How could this be on a flat earth ? It would seem the horizon would be at an  infinite distance from the observer ? Or the horizon would be where the dome of the sky meets the ice wall of the earth ?

At any rate, at eye level the horizon would still appear to be flat on either a flat earth or a round earth due to the height of the  observer and the size of the earth.

Definition of horizon:
ho·ri·zon
/həˈrīzən/ 
noun
the line at which the earth's surface and the sky appear to meet.
synonyms:   skyline