The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 02:36:47 PM

Title: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 02:36:47 PM
There are different ways we collect information to increase your knowledge. It can be school, coffee shop ,books, newspapers, TV, Internet, library or all of the above? I see here smart and stupid question but when it comes to specific details there must be a credible place for everybody. To sum it up where do FE'ers get their knowledge.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 02:41:58 PM
There are many resources in the Flat Earth Forum itself. I am also guessing that these sources have bibliographies; it was a very widely held belief so I am sure there are histories of the belief etc...

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
There are many resources in the Flat Earth Forum itself. I am also guessing that these sources have bibliographies; it was a very widely held belief so I am sure there are histories of the belief etc...
I am not saying it is good or bad. I am just curious the know where they look for information.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 02:45:21 PM
I just make it up as I go along...

Kidding, of course.

Or am I?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 02:48:19 PM
I just make it up as I go along...

Kidding, of course.

Or am I?
In the end we all learn in different ways and from different places. I find that in our lifetime we have access to more information than any man has ever had in history.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 02:58:36 PM
There are many resources in the Flat Earth Forum itself. I am also guessing that these sources have bibliographies; it was a very widely held belief so I am sure there are histories of the belief etc...
I am not saying it is good or bad. I am just curious the know where they look for information.

But, it's obvious isn't it? The same places everyone else gets their information. Information is not self-explanatory, it requires interpretation, so no one has alternative *sources* of information, and even if they did it would not make a difference. We all pretty much get our information from, say, libraries, the web &c as you explained, in your OP.

Or are you asking something different?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 03:01:22 PM
There are many resources in the Flat Earth Forum itself. I am also guessing that these sources have bibliographies; it was a very widely held belief so I am sure there are histories of the belief etc...
I am not saying it is good or bad. I am just curious the know where they look for information.

But, it's obvious isn't it? The same places everyone else gets their information. Information is not self-explanatory, it requires interpretation, so no one has alternative *sources* of information, and even if they did it would not make a difference. We all still get our information from, say, libraries, the web &c
You still have to search to what you are capable to learning. A 7 year old kid may not understand how a nuclear power plant even with all the free information on the internet.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:01:50 PM
I just make it up as I go along...

Kidding, of course.

Or am I?
In the end we all learn in different ways and from different places. I find that in our lifetime we have access to more information than any man has ever had in history.

We certainty live in an amazing time. Of course, it's probably all VR.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:07:14 PM
There are many resources in the Flat Earth Forum itself. I am also guessing that these sources have bibliographies; it was a very widely held belief so I am sure there are histories of the belief etc...
I am not saying it is good or bad. I am just curious the know where they look for information.

But, it's obvious isn't it? The same places everyone else gets their information. Information is not self-explanatory, it requires interpretation, so no one has alternative *sources* of information, and even if they did it would not make a difference. We all still get our information from, say, libraries, the web &c
You still have to search to what you are capable to learning. A 7 year old kid may not understand how a nuclear power plant even with all the free information on the internet.

Can you restate your question? I am having a hard time understanding why my answer was not satisfactory, and why this  is relevant response to it, given the context.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:08:41 PM
I just make it up as I go along...

Kidding, of course.

Or am I?
In the end we all learn in different ways and from different places. I find that in our lifetime we have access to more information than any man has ever had in history.

We certainty live in an amazing time. Of course, it's probably all VR.

So VR originates in VR?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:14:19 PM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:16:08 PM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Simulation requires an original, what is that original? VR?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:28:04 PM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Simulation requires an original, what is that original? VR?

We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:31:42 PM
We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.



We certainty live in an amazing time. Of course, it's probably all VR.

So it's pretty unlikely that it is all VR, right?

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 14, 2014, 03:34:17 PM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Simulation requires an original, what is that original? VR?

We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.

Wrap your mind around the fact that from a statistical point-of-view, that is, that if we just play the numbers game here... then it is more likely that life is a simulation of life.

If we can at least presume that it is inevitable for an intelligent species to desire to make a life simulation and that that species would eventually succeed at it, then we can assume that within the "original" or "root" life, there was a simulation that came of that and that within that simulation, another, and another, and another.

Then statistically speaking our experience is more likely a simulation.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:40:54 PM
We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.



We certainty live in an amazing time. Of course, it's probably all VR.

So it's pretty unlikely that it is all VR, right?

Well, there has to be a beginning, and of course that beginning would not be simulated. Although that does not mean that we are the beginning or even close to the beginning. Like Rottingroom and I said, we're probably a simulation within a simulation within a simulation within that simulation, etc.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:43:37 PM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Simulation requires an original, what is that original? VR?

We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.

Wrap your mind around the fact that from a statistical point-of-view, that is, that if we just play the numbers game here... then it is more likely that life is a simulation of life.

If we can at least presume that it is inevitable for an intelligent species to desire to make a life simulation and that that species would eventually succeed at it, then we can assume that within the "original" or "root" life, there was a simulation that came of that and that within that simulation, another, and another, and another.

Then statistically speaking our experience is more likely a simulation.

Could you give an example of what instance of evidence would falsify the hypothesis that we live in a simulation
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:45:40 PM
We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.



We certainty live in an amazing time. Of course, it's probably all VR.

So it's pretty unlikely that it is all VR, right?

Well, there has to be a beginning, and of course that beginning would not be simulated. Although that does not mean that we are the beginning or even close to the beginning. Like Rottingroom and I said, we're probably a simulation within a simulation within a simulation within that simulation, etc.

So, the more simulations you can have the more possible it becomes. I think you need to read up about probability. If there is one universe, than that is more likely than having a universe + simulation. it is a fact.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:47:18 PM
So, the more simulations you can have the more possible it becomes. I think you need to read up about probability. If there is one universe, than that is more likely than having a universe + simulation. it is a fact.

Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Stop trying to nitpick stuff you obviously know very little about.

One universe. Yes. If there is one universe, and there is ONE civilization within that universe which has the technology to produce a simulated reality, then more than likely they will create one (unless of course, they ban it by law or find it unethical to produce programs with simulated life). This means that if that civilization could produce the tech to make simulated reality work, then their simulated reality could logically get to the point where they could make a simulated reality as well. Etc.

Proof that we live in a simulated reality is all around us. One example is the Bermuda triangle, it is what I refer to as a "glitch zone" that zaps data out of existence, sort of like a magnet on a computer tower. Also, UFO sightings are just our programmers using vessels to fix glitches within the system.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:48:45 PM
So, the more simulations you can have the more possible it becomes. I think you need to read up about probability. If there is one universe, than that is more likely than having a universe + simulation. it is a fact.

Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Stop trying to nitpick stuff you obviously know very little about.

I am much more interested in your grasp of it. Now answer my question (or offer a rubuttal). My criticism has been levelled at it by many people.

You should know by not that I am much more interested in arguments and what people's argument's are for the position they hold.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:51:13 PM
You should know by not that I am much more interested in arguments and what people's argument's are for the position they hold.

Indeed. I have edited my original post to provide more insight.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 03:54:47 PM
So, the more simulations you can have the more possible it becomes. I think you need to read up about probability. If there is one universe, than that is more likely than having a universe + simulation. it is a fact.

Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Stop trying to nitpick stuff you obviously know very little about.

One universe. Yes. If there is one universe, and there is ONE civilization within that universe which has the technology to produce a simulated reality, then more than likely they will create one (unless of course, they ban it by law or find it unethical to produce programs with simulated life). This means that if that civilization could produce the tech to make simulated reality work, then their simulated reality could logically get to the point where they could make a simulated reality as well. Etc.

the more things you posit the lower the probability. Now you are hypothesizing more things, and we are talking about the very simple fact of its probability.

Proof that we live in a simulated reality is all around us. One example is the Bermuda triangle, it is what I refer to as a "glitch zone" that zaps data out of existence, sort of like a magnet on a computer tower. Also, UFO sightings are just our programmers using vessels to fix glitches within the system.

Yeah, well, this is just, like, your opinion, man.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 03:57:02 PM
I don't understand your argument. The universe is huge, it's not that big of a leap to assume that one civilization within our universe has the technology to produce simulated reality. The fact that the Universe is seemingly infinite makes the chances even greater.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 04:04:21 PM
I don't understand your argument. The universe is huge, it's not that big of a leap to assume that one civilization within our universe has the technology to produce simulated reality. The fact that the Universe is seemingly infinite makes the chances even greater.

Are you talking about our universe or another one. If this one, then you are positing another alien race, which might or might not have produced simulations, and I agree that given the empirical data ( the amount of planets there actually are) that it might be unlikely that there is not another alien race, but this is the probability, given actual scientific theories + evidence. In this case, even if this alien race had actually created simulations, we would not be part of it, because we exist in the same universe, and given the argument, the same "level".

If you are positing more universes with possible life in it, you are positing much more than we have actual evidence for and ig you are positing that there is a universe with a simulation in it, in which we are a part, it is more probable that we just actually live in the universe and not a universe + simulation. Therefore the probability goes down the more you hypothesise, get me?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 04:09:30 PM
I don't understand your argument. The universe is huge, it's not that big of a leap to assume that one civilization within our universe has the technology to produce simulated reality. The fact that the Universe is seemingly infinite makes the chances even greater.

Are you talking about our universe or another one. If this one, then you are positing another alien race, which might or might not have produced simulations, and I agree that given the empirical data ( the amount of planets there actually are) that it might be unlikely that there is not another alien race, but this is the probability, given actual scientific theories. In this case, even if this alien race had actually created simulations, we would not be part of it, because we exist in the same universe, and given the argument, the same "level".

If you are positing more universes with possible life on it, you are positing much more than we have actual evidence for. Therefore the probability goes down the more you hypothesise, get me?

I'm proposing ONE starting universe. Every universe made via simulated reality would probably be limited by the technology used and would take ridiculous amounts of power to sustain.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 04:10:20 PM
I don't understand your argument. The universe is huge, it's not that big of a leap to assume that one civilization within our universe has the technology to produce simulated reality. The fact that the Universe is seemingly infinite makes the chances even greater.

Are you talking about our universe or another one. If this one, then you are positing another alien race, which might or might not have produced simulations, and I agree that given the empirical data ( the amount of planets there actually are) that it might be unlikely that there is not another alien race, but this is the probability, given actual scientific theories. In this case, even if this alien race had actually created simulations, we would not be part of it, because we exist in the same universe, and given the argument, the same "level".

If you are positing more universes with possible life on it, you are positing much more than we have actual evidence for. Therefore the probability goes down the more you hypothesise, get me?

I'm proposing ONE starting universe. Every universe made via simulated reality would probably be limited by the technology used and would take ridiculous amounts of power to sustain.

Have you a criticism of my argument?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 14, 2014, 04:15:35 PM
You might have to look at my edited post. (as you can see it was edited just before you posted).
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 04:26:50 PM
I have a sort of problem with it, because I think you're nitpicking. When I say "our" universe, I mean the universe as we understand it now. Surely, if we are in a simulation, our "universe" is modeled after the original society's universe, probably has the same laws of physics and whatnot. I didn't mean we originated from the same universe as our creators, because that wouldn't make sense.

I'm saying that since the universe is supposedly infinite, then our creator's universe is probably infinite as well, which means that ample resources were given within the cosmos for a civilization to pop up, survive long enough to have advanced technology, and make a simulated reality that we live in. If the universe they live in is supposedly infinite, like ours, then there's a very small chance that this isn't the case. If that simulated reality gets to the point where they can create a simulated reality, then there's an even higher chance that we're in one. Of course, most of this is just theorizing and there's' no way to prove any of it. It's just an interesting thought experiment.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 05:30:18 PM
I have a sort of problem with it, because I think you're nitpicking. When I say "our" universe, I mean the universe as we understand it now. Surely, if we are in a simulation, or "universe" is modeled after the original society's universe, probably has the same laws of physics and whatnot. I didn't mean we originated from the same universe as our creators, because that wouldn't make sense.

I'm saying that since the universe is supposedly infinite, then our creator's universe is probably infinite as well, which means that ample resources were given within the cosmos for a civilization to pop up, survive long enough to have advanced technology, and make a simulated reality that we live in. If the universe they live in is supposedly infinite, like ours, then there's a very small chance that this isn't the case. If that simulated reality gets to the point where they can create a simulated reality, then there's an even higher chance that we're in one. Of course, most of this is just theorizing and there's' no way to prove any of it. It's just an interesting thought experiment.
In the end if we watch too much sci-fi movies our imagination starts to believe this simulation life or world could be true. We start to imagine things that does not make sense and think that maybe it could be real. Jump of the house and see if it hurts. That is real. Try to imagine you can fly and do it again. It will still hurt. That is real.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 05:31:52 PM
Jump of the house and see if it hurts. That is real. Try to imagine you can fly and do it again. It will still hurt. That is real.

Just did it and fell through the ground into some weird black area and eventually fell out of the sky into China, which is where I am posting from now.

I suspect my apartment complex may be on some sort of glitch fault line.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 05:34:34 PM
I suspect everyone is lying.  Everyone. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 05:45:55 PM
I suspect everyone is lying.  Everyone.
Try not to avoid my question and answer it. You can't, right, because you what i am trying to prove.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 05:49:47 PM
Can you state your question in a coherent manner?  I will try to answer it if it makes sense. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 05:50:37 PM
Can you state your question in a coherent manner?  I will try to answer it if it makes sense.
It is pretty simple. Go back and you will find it. It is pretty simple.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
Can you state your question in a coherent manner?  I will try to answer it if it makes sense.
It is pretty simple. Go back and you will find it. It is pretty simple.

Why can't you just answer his question, Starman?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 05:55:01 PM
Please, just answer the question and quit going around in circles.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 05:57:00 PM
Please, just answer the question and quit going around in circles.
My question is in the Q and A section so stop jumping around.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 05:58:33 PM
This is not Q&A.  You might be lost.  I can direct you there. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Please, just answer the question and quit going around in circles.
My question is in the Q and A section so stop jumping around.

Why can't you just answer his question?

Please reiterate your point in a non-elementary school level. Don't you see his advanced brain can't comprehend your posts? You might as well be typing gibberish.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
This is not Q&A.  You might be lost.  I can direct you there.
I know. i am waiting there for your answer to the question.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:02:33 PM
Please, just answer the question and quit going around in circles.
My question is in the Q and A section so stop jumping around.

Why can't you just answer his question?

Because we are having a debate and his is stalling. He can't answer it.




Please reiterate your point in a non-elementary school level. Don't you see his advanced brain can't comprehend your posts? You might as well be typing gibberish.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:03:42 PM
Can you post a link?  I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:07:05 PM
Can you post a link?  I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge.
A link for what. I don't want to give you a hard time. I just want to know what YOU think.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Jer9999 on March 14, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
I suspect everyone is lying.  Everyone.

And this is the crux of your mental disorder. You can get help and lead a normal life. But you must make the phone call to someone who can help you. Psychologist, psychiatrist or therapist. just make the call and make an appointment. You will be much happier if your mental disorder is treated.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:15:13 PM
I suspect everyone is lying.  Everyone.

And this is the crux of your mental disorder. You can get help and lead a normal life. But you must make the phone call to someone who can help you. Psychologist, psychiatrist or therapist. just make the call and make an appointment. You will be much happier if your mental disorder is treated.

I understand that you think I have a mental disorder.  Do you hate everyone who has a mental disorder, or just me? 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Jer9999 on March 14, 2014, 06:23:22 PM
I do not hate you. I want you to get help. You are either trolling, incredibly stupid, or have a mental problem. If you are the 3rd option, just go get help. I want to see you better.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 14, 2014, 06:25:43 PM
I do not hate you. I want you to get help. You are either trolling, incredibly stupid, or have a mental problem. If you are the 3rd option, just go get help. I want to see you better.

Don't act like you care about him when you obviously don't. If all you do is resort to personal attacks when you lose a debate, then maybe you should "ban" yourself.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:30:38 PM
Many people hate me, not just Jer9999.  It is probably not his fault.  I must attract hate or something. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:31:48 PM
Many people hate me, not just Jer9999.  It is probably not his fault.  I must attract hate or something.
The question is on the floor in the Q&A section. We are waiting for you.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Jer9999 on March 14, 2014, 06:31:57 PM
I do not hate you. But I am extremely frustrated with you. You refuse to answer my parking lot question.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:35:15 PM
Could you please provide a link to the question?  I would be happy to try to give you an answer. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:37:41 PM
Could you please provide a link to the question?  I would be happy to try to give you an answer.
What link are you talking about. I can you think for myself. There is no link. it is totally my question.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Jer9999 on March 14, 2014, 06:39:33 PM
I do not hate you. I want you to get help. You are either trolling, incredibly stupid, or have a mental problem. If you are the 3rd option, just go get help. I want to see you better.

Don't act like you care about him when you obviously don't. If all you an do is resort to personal attacks when you lose a debate, then maybe you should "ban" yourself.

Do you find the way JROA is answering our parking lot question in the Q&A section completely normal? Does that seem like normal responses to you?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:44:58 PM
I am sorry, Dr. forum member.  I did not realize that I was being psychoanalyzed. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Jer9999 on March 14, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
What I wanted to know if the way you are responding is just how all of you guys here respond. If this is just normal to you guys,
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: fappenhosen on March 14, 2014, 06:49:19 PM
There are different ways we collect information to increase your knowledge. It can be school, coffee shop ,books, newspapers, TV, Internet, library or all of the above? I see here smart and stupid question but when it comes to specific details there must be a credible place for everybody. To sum it up where do FE'ers get their knowledge.

I practice deep meditation through self fisting. I can only get in up to my wrist though because I do not truly understand my nature of being and not being.

My guru can get in up to his shoulder.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 14, 2014, 06:52:34 PM
fappenhosen, you know the rules, and I know who you are.  Stap it right now. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 14, 2014, 06:55:05 PM
There are different ways we collect information to increase your knowledge. It can be school, coffee shop ,books, newspapers, TV, Internet, library or all of the above? I see here smart and stupid question but when it comes to specific details there must be a credible place for everybody. To sum it up where do FE'ers get their knowledge.

I practice deep meditation through self fisting. I can only get in up to my wrist though because I do not truly understand my nature of being and not being.

My guru can get in up to his shoulder.
This not the place for you. Your crude remarks will leave you with nothing.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: fappenhosen on March 14, 2014, 07:30:36 PM
I am a senoir member here
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 15, 2014, 04:45:15 AM
I am a senoir member here
And it means what?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: charles bloomington on March 15, 2014, 05:08:25 AM
food coupons & a pension card.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 06:14:36 AM
So VR originates in VR?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)

Simulation requires an original, what is that original? VR?

We could be in an alien video game, or we could be a simulation within a simulation. It's not that far-fetched to assume that with enough power a simulated society could create a program that simulates life itself.

Wrap your mind around the fact that from a statistical point-of-view, that is, that if we just play the numbers game here... then it is more likely that life is a simulation of life.

If we can at least presume that it is inevitable for an intelligent species to desire to make a life simulation and that that species would eventually succeed at it, then we can assume that within the "original" or "root" life, there was a simulation that came of that and that within that simulation, another, and another, and another.

Then statistically speaking our experience is more likely a simulation.

Could you give an example of what instance of evidence would falsify the hypothesis that we live in a simulation

Consider the idea a thought experiment. I'm not suggesting that this is my view on reality and I'm also not suggesting that it isn't. The problem with it is that it can't be falsified to any agreeable extent as long as we assume that the simulation is sufficiently indistinguishable from reality. Furthermore, how could one distinguish it from "some reality" if that simulated experience has nothing to compare itself to for the observer?

The only logic I'm using is probability. The idea that not all infinities are equal. Take, for example, our number system. There are an infinite number of whole numbers that can be imagined. Similarly, there are an infinite number of odd numbers that can be imagined. However, wouldn't you agree that there are "more" infinite whole numbers than there are infinite odd numbers? I can imagine that the same goes for simulated realities vs. actual realities. Because each actual reality can possibly give birth to an infinite number of simulations where as simulated realities cannot give birth to actual realities, no matter how many actual realities there are.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: mathsman on March 15, 2014, 06:27:03 AM
The only logic I'm using is probability. The idea that not all infinities are equal. Take, for example, our number system. There are an infinite number of whole numbers that can be imagined. Similarly, there are an infinite number of odd numbers that can be imagined. However, wouldn't you agree that there are "more" infinite whole numbers than there are infinite odd numbers?
I appreciate that you enclosed the word more in quotation marks indicating a metaphorical rather than a literal use of the word, but the answer to your question is no. There are exactly the same number of odd integers as integers.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 06:30:35 AM
The only logic I'm using is probability. The idea that not all infinities are equal. Take, for example, our number system. There are an infinite number of whole numbers that can be imagined. Similarly, there are an infinite number of odd numbers that can be imagined. However, wouldn't you agree that there are "more" infinite whole numbers than there are infinite odd numbers?
I appreciate that you enclosed the word more in quotation marks indicating a metaphorical rather than a literal use of the word, but the answer to your question is no. There are exactly the same number of odd integers as integers.

I disagree.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: mathsman on March 15, 2014, 06:38:23 AM
The odd numbers can be put into a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers. Therefore the set of odd numbers has the same size or cardinality as the natural numbers. The same goes for the even numbers, the rational numbers, the perfect squares etc.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 06:47:00 AM
The odd numbers can be put into a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers. Therefore the set of odd numbers has the same size or cardinality as the natural numbers. The same goes for the even numbers, the rational numbers, the perfect squares etc.

In that sense, yes. They do have one-to-one correspondence. I agree with that!

However, in some sense there are "more" (and I'll use quotations again) odd numbers than whole numbers when we deal with the finite aspect of time. Time is infinite, but only so much of it has passed until we reach the present. During that amount of time, a larger number of whole seconds have passed than odd seconds even though we suspect that time will continue on, infinitely.

I understand your distinction but what I'm saying is not difficult to fathom.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: mathsman on March 15, 2014, 06:49:29 AM
What is an odd second?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 06:52:20 AM
What is an odd second?

During one minute there are 30 odd seconds and 60 whole seconds. You understand don't you?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 15, 2014, 06:53:24 AM
What is an odd second?

During one minute there are 30 odd seconds and 60 whole seconds. You understand don't you?
I think you made a mistake on that one.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 06:58:28 AM
What is an odd second?

During one minute there are 30 odd seconds and 60 whole seconds. You understand don't you?
I think you made a mistake on that one.

Maybe, how so?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: charles bloomington on March 15, 2014, 07:28:08 AM
What is an odd second?
A dead heat in a race lol
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 02:36:16 PM
What is an odd second?

During one minute there are 30 odd seconds and 60 whole seconds. You understand don't you?
I think you made a mistake on that one.

Maybe, how so?

Well, don't you mean something like 30 odd seconds and 30 even seconds? What you said is incoherent, because the concepts you invoke don't co-ordinnate with each other. an odd second is not some portion of a second so therefore saying 60 whole secdonds does not make sense.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Starman on March 15, 2014, 02:40:42 PM
What is an odd second?

During one minute there are 30 odd seconds and 60 whole seconds. You understand don't you?
I think you made a mistake on that one.

Maybe, how so?
1 3 5 7 9 are odd seconds...... 2 4 6 8 are whole or even seconds. If you mean whole seconds is a complete seconds well you are just playing with words.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
1 3 5 7 9 are odd seconds...... 2 4 6 8 are whole or even seconds. If you mean whole seconds is a complete seconds well you are just playing with words.

Well, don't you mean something like 30 odd seconds and 30 even seconds? What you said is incoherent, because the concepts you invoke don't co-ordinnate with each other. an odd second is not some portion of a second so therefore saying 60 whole secdonds does not make sense.

Yes, and what I said is exactly the same thing you just without also invoking even numbers. Why would I anyway? I'm talking about odd numbers and whole numbers to help you understand why it is that there is a higher probability (statistically speaking) that life is a simulation than not.

Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.

Same goes with realities. You have a higher chance of being part of a simulation because for every single actual reality, there exists a chance of a simulation, and for every simulation there exists a chance for there to be another simulation, etc, etc...

We don't need to dig to deep into this whole numbers vs. odd numbers thing.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 03:12:09 PM

Yes, and what I said is exactly the same thing you just without also invoking even numbers. Why would I anyway? I'm talking about odd numbers and whole numbers to help you understand why it is that there is a higher probability (statistically speaking) that life is a simulation than not.

Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.

You mean because no matter what number you pick out it will be a whole number? Is not the argument that the cardinality of even and odd numbers are the same?

Same goes with realities. You have a higher chance of being part of a simulation because for every single actual reality, there exists a chance of a simulation, and for every simulation there exists a chance for there to be another simulation, etc, etc...


No, because you have to posit more realities, when there is only one. What I think you mean to say is that the more universes there are the more simulations there will be; but this presupposes multiple universes so therefore  the probability of your hypothesis is affected because the probability that there are more than one universe is lower than that there is just one. Get used to it, that's probability. The more universes you posit the less likely it is. Universe + universe + simulation is less likely than 1 universe. and you have the added unlikelyness that not all possible universes will have laws that support life as well etc etc.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 03:15:15 PM

Yes, and what I said is exactly the same thing you just without also invoking even numbers. Why would I anyway? I'm talking about odd numbers and whole numbers to help you understand why it is that there is a higher probability (statistically speaking) that life is a simulation than not.

Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.

You mean because no matter what number you pick out it will be a whole number? Is not the argument that the cardinality of even and odd numbers are the same?

Same goes with realities. You have a higher chance of being part of a simulation because for every single actual reality, there exists a chance of a simulation, and for every simulation there exists a chance for there to be another simulation, etc, etc...


No, because you have to posit more realities, when there is only one. What I think you mean to say is that the more universes there are the more simulations there will be; but this presupposes multiple universes so therefore you probably becomes lower. the probability that there are more than one universe, is lower than that there is just one. Get used to it, that's probability.

too eliminate the need for multiverse's we can just talk about possible forms of intelligent life. Like humanity and some other intelligent alien species could be considered 2 possible realities.

And I said the jar was full of numbers. Not whole numbers. So not every number you pull would be a whole number. Still better chances than an odd number.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 03:25:44 PM
too eliminate the need for multiverse's we can just talk about possible forms of intelligent life. Like humanity and some other intelligent alien species could be considered 2 possible realities.


Can you restate this as a criticism of what I just said, just so I can be clear on how it is meant to actually rebut it.

How does positing intelligent alien life get rid of the probabilistic nature of what I am saying. If you replace intelligent life with multiverses then you are still positing more potential things.


And I said the jar was full of numbers. Not whole numbers. So not every number you pull would be a whole number. Still better chances than an odd number.

Can you explain to me what a whole number is as opposed to say an odd and even number. Are you talking about integers or what?

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 03:30:03 PM
too eliminate the need for multiverse's we can just talk about possible forms of intelligent life. Like humanity and some other intelligent alien species could be considered 2 possible realities.


Seems to me like you are using "reality" idiosynctratically. Saying that there are two species is not saying that there are two realities it is saying that two alien species exist in reality.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
Can you restate this as a criticism of what I just said, just so I can be clear on how it is meant to actually rebut it.

How does positing intelligent alien life get rid of the probabilistic nature of what I am saying. If you replace intelligent life with multiverses then you are still positing more potential things.

Yes... it just seemed that you had a problem with the fact/assumption that there is only one actual reality. I didn't have any personal problems with using multiverse's.

Can you explain to me what a whole number is as opposed to say an odd and even number. Are you talking about integers or what?

odd numbers and even numbers are types of whole numbers

just as...

actual realities and simulated realities are types of realities
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 03:44:35 PM
Can you restate this as a criticism of what I just said, just so I can be clear on how it is meant to actually rebut it.

How does positing intelligent alien life get rid of the probabilistic nature of what I am saying. If you replace intelligent life with multiverses then you are still positing more potential things.

Yes... it just seemed that you had a problem with the fact/assumption that there is only one actual reality. I didn't have any personal problems with using multiverse's.


either way you are wrong about it being more likely, right? That is what you are conceding is it not?

Can you explain to me what a whole number is as opposed to say an odd and even number. Are you talking about integers or what?


odd numbers and even numbers are types of whole numbers

just as...

actual realities and simulated realities are types of realities

The analogy does not work, because reality is the sum total of what exists. "realities" is a misnomer; you mean universes.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 03:49:50 PM
Can you restate this as a criticism of what I just said, just so I can be clear on how it is meant to actually rebut it.

How does positing intelligent alien life get rid of the probabilistic nature of what I am saying. If you replace intelligent life with multiverses then you are still positing more potential things.

Yes... it just seemed that you had a problem with the fact/assumption that there is only one actual reality. I didn't have any personal problems with using multiverse's.


either way you are wrong about it being more likely, right? That is what you are conceding is it not?

Can you explain to me what a whole number is as opposed to say an odd and even number. Are you talking about integers or what?


odd numbers and even numbers are types of whole numbers

just as...

actual realities and simulated realities are types of realities

The analogy does not work, because reality is the sum total of what exists. "realities" is a misnomer; you mean universes.

#1. I am saying that it is more likely because infinity is a potential and in this case it depends on the amount of time that has passed. Even if that potential infinity exists, there is a finite amount of time that has passed for possible realities so far.

#2. We can say universe's or realities. Kind of seems like semantics in this discussion. Whichever being lives in their reality, it would be supposed by them that they are living in the actual reality and not a simulation.

Furthermore, I do think the term reality fits better than universe because the simulations themselves would try to simulate the entire experience of reality and not just some part of it like a multiverse would be.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 03:55:43 PM
Is he still going on about simulated reality?  ::)
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:00:29 PM
Is he still going on about simulated reality?  ::)

You started it. ::)

Rottingroom is just not accepting that he has been shown to be wrong and he is trying to wriggle out of it by slowly changing the subject.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 04:03:51 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:05:42 PM
#1. I am saying that it is more likely because infinity is a potential and in this case it depends on the amount of time that has passed. Even if that potential infinity exists, there is a finite amount of time that has passed for possible realities so far.

You are willing to resort to conventionalist strategem's to basically prove your point. Given that what you say is all true, then you are right. but it is very unlikely that is all true. therefore it is not more likely that we live in a simulation than that we live in just a universe + no simulation.

#2. We can say universe's or realities. Kind of seems like semantics in this discussion. Whichever being lives in their reality, it would be supposed by them that they are living in the actual reality and not a simulation.


This is not semantics.


Furthermore, I do think the term reality fits better than universe because the simulations themselves would try to simulate the entire experience of reality and not just some part of it like a multiverse would be.

You might not think it fits better, but simulations exist in reality, when they try to replicate (simulate) say the earth with all its culture, they are using one "section" of reality to simulate another "section" of reality.

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 04:06:16 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

That is typical Burt tactics. He's trolling. It's fun for a little while, but it gets tedious and sad with each post.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:06:35 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:08:16 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

That is typical Burt tactics. He's trolling. It's fun for a little while, but it gets tedious and sad with each post.

This is not relevant.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 04:11:05 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.

I didn't even offer an argument. I have said from the get go that I don't subscribe to any of this. It is a thought experiment. You said some stuff about conventionalist strategem's and I agree with you on that. This entire thought experiment is based on that and I willfully admitted so when I first mentioned simulated realities.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:13:37 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.

I didn't even offer an argument. I have said from the get go that I don't subscribe to any of this. It is a thought experiment. You said some stuff about conventionalist strategem's and I agree with you on that. This entire thought experiment is based on that and I willfully admitted so when I first mentioned simulated realities.


#1. I am saying that it is more likely because infinity is a potential and in this case it depends on the amount of time that has passed. Even if that potential infinity exists, there is a finite amount of time that has passed for possible realities so far.

So either you are or you aren't saying it is more likely.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:16:53 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.

I didn't even offer an argument. I have said from the get go that I don't subscribe to any of this. It is a thought experiment. You said some stuff about conventionalist strategem's and I agree with you on that. This entire thought experiment is based on that and I willfully admitted so when I first mentioned simulated realities.

But further more, why would you say I have not given a rebuttal, when you also claim you did not give an argument? It is pretty unfair to expect me to give a rebuttal to an argument you did not have.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 04:23:36 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.

I didn't even offer an argument. I have said from the get go that I don't subscribe to any of this. It is a thought experiment. You said some stuff about conventionalist strategem's and I agree with you on that. This entire thought experiment is based on that and I willfully admitted so when I first mentioned simulated realities.

But further more, why would you say I have not given a rebuttal, when you also claim you did not give an argument? It is pretty unfair to expect me to give a rebuttal to an argument you did not have.

I only inquired about a rebuttal after you said that you offered one, which you didn't.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:25:01 PM
Wrong about what? You haven't offered a rebuttal. You just keep insisting that you are right. I don't even know what you are disagreeing with.

Ok, if have I not offered a rebuttal, please restate your argument.

I didn't even offer an argument. I have said from the get go that I don't subscribe to any of this. It is a thought experiment. You said some stuff about conventionalist strategem's and I agree with you on that. This entire thought experiment is based on that and I willfully admitted so when I first mentioned simulated realities.

But further more, why would you say I have not given a rebuttal, when you also claim you did not give an argument? It is pretty unfair to expect me to give a rebuttal to an argument you did not have.

I only inquired about a rebuttal after you said that you offered one, which you didn't.

Can you answer reply #89. thanks.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 04:28:38 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:34:50 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 04:49:06 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes

No evidence of a God. Simulated Reality argument stems for real possibilities, not fantasy. Nice fallacy, though.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 04:51:36 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes



No evidence of a God. Simulated Reality argument stems for real possibilities, not fantasy. Nice fallacy, though.

There is no fallacy. I was simply outlining that you can presuppose whatever in order to make something more likely.

No evidence of simulated universes or any other universes.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 04:57:13 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes



No evidence of a God. Simulated Reality argument stems for real possibilities, not fantasy. Nice fallacy, though.

There is no fallacy. I was simply outlining that you can presuppose whatever in order to make something more likely.

No evidence of simulated universes or any other universes.

Sure there is. Humanity aspires to make simulations all the time. As time goes they will become more indistinguishable from the real thing.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes



No evidence of a God. Simulated Reality argument stems for real possibilities, not fantasy. Nice fallacy, though.

There is no fallacy. I was simply outlining that you can presuppose whatever in order to make something more likely.

No evidence of simulated universes or any other universes.

I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:02:12 PM
It is more likely if we presuppose what I've stated. You should just agree with me. I'm busy arguing with my wife.

I think it is more likely that the earth is made out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, because if we pressupose that god exists and also that god makes 99/100 planets out of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes, therefore it is more likely that the earth is made of Krispy Kreme Doughnut Cakes



No evidence of a God. Simulated Reality argument stems for real possibilities, not fantasy. Nice fallacy, though.

There is no fallacy. I was simply outlining that you can presuppose whatever in order to make something more likely.

No evidence of simulated universes or any other universes.

I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.

Actually no, my argument was an instance of a counter-example. I did not attack an argument he was not making. You need to look up what a counter example contains. Counter examples contain silly analogies in order to show that the actual logical form is not an instance of a valid argument. I did that.

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:07:29 PM
Your "argument" was just a satirical response used to ridicule the simulated reality theory and rottingroom himself. If you think that's how a debate is handled then you need to think twice.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:10:16 PM
Actually no, my argument was an instance of a counter-example. I did not attack an argument he was not making. You need to look up what a counter example contains. Counter examples contain silly analogies in order to show that the actual logical form is not an instance of a valid argument. I did that.

Actually, yes. Your "argument" was just a satirical response used to ridicule the simulated reality theory and rottingroom himself. If you think that's how a debate is handled then you need to think twice.

Have you got a criiticism of my counter-example, or a rastatement of the original argument which demonstrates that I did anything but argue in good faith.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:15:20 PM
Yeah, I do have a criticism.


I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:17:42 PM
Yeah, I do have a criticism.


I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.

This criticism is not clear, because it is what is called "meta".

if you think I have made the strawman fallacy (which I have not, and I explained why) you need to demonstrate it independently with an argument showing both why my argument is misrepresentation of his argument, and why, despite my criticism, his argument still holds.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:20:01 PM
Yeah, I do have a criticism.


I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.

This criticism is not clear, because it is what is called "meta".

if you think I have made the strawman fallacy (which I have not, and I explained why) you need to demonstrate it independently with an argument showing both why my argument is misrepresentation of his argument, and why, despite my criticism, his argument still holds.

I wouldn't expect you to understand what a fallacy is, but here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) some info on the one you used.

From your quick responses I can tell you didn't even read the article. Try reading it, then come back. Maybe you'll have a better understanding of why your argument was ridiculous.

Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 05:26:07 PM
I still do not know what the argument is. Unless it is that simulated realities are more likely to be our reality than an actually reality. Supported by humanity's willingness to simulate reality.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:27:44 PM
From your quick responses I can tell you didn't even read the article. Try reading it, then come back. Maybe you'll have a better understanding of why your argument was ridiculous.


if you think I have made the strawman fallacy (which I have not, and I explained why) you need to demonstrate it independently with an argument showing both why my argument is misrepresentation of his argument, and why, despite my criticism, his argument still holds.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:30:17 PM
I still do not know what the argument is. Unless it is that simulated realities are more likely to be our reality than an actually reality. Supported by humanity's willingness to simulate reality.

So you do know what you argument is...?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 05:31:41 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:32:35 PM
Your "argument" was just a satirical response used to ridicule the simulated reality theory and rottingroom himself. If you think that's how a debate is handled then you need to think twice.

Also, your argument was based in religion. Religion is not scientific, has no supporting evidence, and cannot be proven or disproved.

The argument we are making is that: It's a possibility that a civilization could become advanced enough to make simulated reality. This is supported by the fact that the society that we live in has already created simulated reality (or tries to, look at game devs, check out oculus rift for example). Of course, our "simulated realities" are nothing compared to what we are theorizing, but it could happen given enough time. If that's the case, then we could be living in another society's simulated reality program right now and not even know it. Of course, like many have stated, this is a thought experiment. The possibility is there, there's a whole wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_argument) on the topic that explains it way better than I do, which I suggest you read if you're at all interested in this idea.

It's all very interesting if you're a curious and bright individual, which the troll persona that you have developed is not... but hey, that's a story for another day.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:32:49 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.

Believe what?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 05:36:29 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.

Believe what?
The argument you tit.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:39:07 PM
Your "argument" was just a satirical response used to ridicule the simulated reality theory and rottingroom himself. If you think that's how a debate is handled then you need to think twice.

Also, your argument was based in religion. Religion is not scientific, has no supporting evidence, and cannot be proven or disproved.


Simulated reality has not been proved. And even if it was proved saying that we could live in a simulation is an unflalsifiable statement, which is exactly why you chastised me for my counter example.

This argument I disposed of ages ago I said and I paraphrase:

What instance of evidence would go to falsify this hypothesis.

The argument we are making is that: It's a possibility that a civilization could become advanced enough to make simulated reality. This is supported by the fact that the society that we live in has already created simulated reality (or tries to, look at game devs, check out oculus rift for example). Of course, our "simulated realities" are nothing compared to what we are theorizing, but it could happen given enough time. If that's the case, then we could be living in another society's simulated reality program right now and not even know it. Of course, like many have stated, this is a thought experiment. The possibility is there, there's a whole wikipedia article on the topic that explains it way better than I do, which I suggest you read if you're at all interested in this idea.

It's all very interesting if you're a curious and bright individual, which the troll persona that you have developed is not... but hey, that's a story for another day.

This argument is not the one you were making you asserted that it was more likely we were living in a simulated reality.

I take it you have conceded the point.


Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:40:31 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.

Believe what?
The argument you tit.

What about the argument don't you believe?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:43:16 PM
I've said this is a thought experiment from the beginning. Are you unable to comprehend what that means?

Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment) some info on what a thought experiment is, for your future reference.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 15, 2014, 05:47:39 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.

Believe what?
The argument you tit.

What about the argument don't you believe?

The very things you keep mentioning. Have you not noticed that I've mostly been agreeing with you?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:50:45 PM
I've said this is a thought experiment from the beginning. Are you unable to comprehend what that means?

Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment) some info on what a thought experiment is, for your future reference.

I am interested in simulated reality. I think it is very unlikely. I do not think even given the presuppositions you hold that it makes it more likely I think it is more likely that simulated reality has been discovered only once rather than twice.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
I am interested in simulated reality. I think it is very unlikely. I do not think even given the presuppositions you hold that it makes it more likely I think it is more likely that simulated reality has been discovered only once rather than twice.

I don't even know what you're saying in half your posts, tbh.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:52:18 PM
Well as I said. I don't necessarily believe in it. I offered a thought experiment. At no point was I looking for a debate.

Believe what?
The argument you tit.

What about the argument don't you believe?

The very things you keep mentioning. Have you not noticed that I've mostly been agreeing with you?

You still refuse to say it explicitly, and allow Vauxhall to trawl his misconceived notion that I am misrepresenting you.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 05:53:02 PM
You still refuse to say it explicitly, and allow Vauxhall to trawl his misconceived notion that I am misrepresenting you.

You misrepresent everyone you talk to.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:53:59 PM
I am interested in simulated reality. I think it is very unlikely. I do not think even given the presuppositions you hold that it makes it more likely I think it is more likely that simulated reality has been discovered only once rather than twice.

I don't even know what you're saying in half your posts, tbh.

Why don't you ask for clarifications? I am not your enemy, I am willing to restate any argument and engage with you. You seem to think that my argumentation is somehow personal.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 05:54:44 PM
You still refuse to say it explicitly, and allow Vauxhall to trawl his misconceived notion that I am misrepresenting you.

You misrepresent everyone you talk to.

You know what I am going to ask for don't you?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 06:05:03 PM
You know what I am going to ask for don't you?

A reverse lobotomy?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 15, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
You know what I am going to ask for don't you?

A reverse lobotomy?
;D
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 15, 2014, 06:14:02 PM
;D

 ;)
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: mathsman on March 16, 2014, 02:39:06 AM
Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.
That's not true. If the jar had a finite number of numbers you would have a point. If the jar has an infinite number of numbers then the chance of any particular number or set of numbers being drawn is zero. (Remember what chance is: the number of events satisfying an outcome divided by the total number of events.)



We don't need to dig to deep into this whole numbers vs. odd numbers thing.

We do need to dig deep when we mention infinities. Strange things happen.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 16, 2014, 05:48:13 AM
Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.
That's not true. If the jar had a finite number of numbers you would have a point. If the jar has an infinite number of numbers then the chance of any particular number or set of numbers being drawn is zero. (Remember what chance is: the number of events satisfying an outcome divided by the total number of events.)



We don't need to dig to deep into this whole numbers vs. odd numbers thing.

We do need to dig deep when we mention infinities. Strange things happen.

Except that we are not discussing an infinite amount of possibilities. This is being compared with events on a timeline with the potential for infinity with the current time being the present. Meaning that thus far, a finite number of events have happened. It seems you are having difficulty with this. Next time, I'll remember not to talk about difficult things on TFES.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: fappenhosen on March 16, 2014, 05:57:35 AM
This site used to have good debates. :(
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Son of Orospu on March 16, 2014, 06:21:44 AM
I think all of the good debaters went to that other Flat Earth Society. 
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: rottingroom on March 16, 2014, 06:24:10 AM
This site used to have good debates. :(

This wasn't ever meant to be a debate at all. People are nitpicking a non-argument.

Also, shut your mouth.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: Vauxhall on March 16, 2014, 12:32:16 PM
I think all of the good debaters went to that other Flat Earth Society.

This one? (http://tfes.org)
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: fappenhosen on March 16, 2014, 01:55:43 PM
This site used to have good debates. :(

This wasn't ever meant to be a debate at all. People are nitpicking a non-argument.

Also, shut your mouth.

(http://www.troll.me/images2/grammar-correction-guy/no-shut-your-whore-mouth.jpg)
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on March 16, 2014, 02:06:02 PM
This site used to have good debates. :(
This appears to be the best one on this forum currently.

Take that as you will.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 16, 2014, 05:30:56 PM
I think all of the good debaters went to that other Flat Earth Society.

Notice the use of 'all' and the fact that jroa has not gone.
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: burt on March 16, 2014, 05:33:48 PM


This wasn't ever meant to be a debate at all. People are nitpicking a non-argument.

Also, shut your mouth.



The OP said something about getting information. So, no it was not meant to be a debate, but you a and vauxhall changed the subject when you invoked something completely irrelevant, namely, about how it was more probable that we were in VR than not. Keep up with the derails won't you?
Title: Re: Where do you go to increase your knowledge?
Post by: mathsman on March 17, 2014, 12:33:04 AM
Look at it like a lottery.

Lets say you have a hypothetical jar with an infinite amount of numbers in it. You have a better chance of picking out a whole number from the jar than you do an odd number.
That's not true. If the jar had a finite number of numbers you would have a point. If the jar has an infinite number of numbers then the chance of any particular number or set of numbers being drawn is zero. (Remember what chance is: the number of events satisfying an outcome divided by the total number of events.)



We don't need to dig to deep into this whole numbers vs. odd numbers thing.

We do need to dig deep when we mention infinities. Strange things happen.

Except that we are not discussing an infinite amount of possibilities. This is being compared with events on a timeline with the potential for infinity with the current time being the present. Meaning that thus far, a finite number of events have happened. It seems you are having difficulty with this. Next time, I'll remember not to talk about difficult things on TFES.
You're either discussing infinities or you are not.