The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 01:48:08 AM

Title: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 01:48:08 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: icanbeanything on May 17, 2013, 05:10:21 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 05:11:55 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.

They also need to discredit the direct observational evidence of the Earth's sphericity.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 05:33:22 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.

I ask because it seems a lot of FE's do not believe in spacecraft in general, so it seemed obvious that they need to deny that we went to the moon also?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2013, 06:04:54 AM
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon).

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 17, 2013, 06:07:09 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?
No, I am a flat earther that believes in no conspiracy.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2013, 06:14:38 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?
No, I am a flat earther that believes in no conspiracy.

Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 06:23:53 AM
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon).

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11670HR.jpg) angles (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg) of the footprint to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

You will notice that in presenting his evidence, he immediately assumes that such a shape could -only- be made by a sneaker.  He does not know which sneaker, if any in 1969 had such a print, and in fact a respectable zetetic who frequents the site, Kendrick tried to find a match and could not.  Is it a bootprint?  I do not know.  Is it a sneaker print? I do not know.  Neither does Tom, and if he says otherwise, he is the one in denial.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2013, 06:27:26 AM
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 06:29:15 AM
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon).

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 06:30:52 AM

[/quote]

Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
[/quote]

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 06:31:15 AM
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities? 
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 06:35:22 AM


Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
[/quote]

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
[/quote]

They use an inaccurate trigonometric method.  You can find it on the wiki under "Distance to the Sun".  It uses a 45 degree angle to calculate the distance.  I encourage you to try it with a 1500 mile distance and a 22.5 degree angle.  If you do this, you will notice that the sun elevates several hundred miles.  If you try a 67.5 degree angle and a 4500 mile distance, you get a third distance.  This is their proof of the sun's altitude.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 06:39:47 AM


Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
[/quote]

They use an inaccurate trigonometric method.  You can find it on the wiki under "Distance to the Sun".  It uses a 45 degree angle to calculate the distance.  I encourage you to try it with a 1500 mile distance and a 22.5 degree angle.  If you do this, you will notice that the sun elevates several hundred miles.  If you try a 67.5 degree angle and a 4500 mile distance, you get a third distance.  This is their proof of the sun's altitude.
[/quote]

I love how they think they've outwitted the collective group of physicists who have lived over the past century and who are much smarter and have a much more in-depth knowledge in their studied subject.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 17, 2013, 06:52:01 AM
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance. 
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: markjo on May 17, 2013, 06:59:19 AM
One of the things that I find interesting about the various moon conspiracies is the sheer range of incompatible theories out there.  Some theories say that NASA has never been to the moon, while others say that NASA has been to the moon but found alien civilizations there.  Some FE'ers say that sustained space travel is impossible, but cite UFO conspiracy sites that say that NASA editing the pictures that are coming from Mars.

Conspiracy theorists unite and make up your th*rking minds, will you.  >o<
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 07:03:53 AM
One of the things that I find interesting about the various moon conspiracies is the sheer range of incompatible theories out there.  Some theories say that NASA has never been to the moon, while others say that NASA has been to the moon but found alien civilizations there.  Some FE'ers say that sustained space travel is impossible, but cite UFO conspiracy sites that say that NASA editing the pictures that are coming from Mars.

Conspiracy theorists unite and make up your th*rking minds, will you.  >o<

Couldn't of put it better myself. And looking at the comments, it seems two flat earthers are now in disagreements about the logistics of space-travel. Seems there isn't even a properly agreed upon model to this hypothesis.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2013, 07:16:56 AM
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy)
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 07:28:52 AM
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy)

It sounds like you are hearing what you want to.  Why don't you ask a question, instead of propsing and answer.  I thought you were Zetetic.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 07:38:52 AM
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy)

To believe in this space conspiracy you must accept that all space agencies across the planet, over hundreds of countries are all lying about sending satellites into space.
Someone who is studying physics/engineering and wants to go work for a space agency isn't going to happily accept there are no satellites and be part of the conspiracy.
I am studying Maths and Physics at university and plan to go into further research, If I end up at a space organisation, do I need to keep quiet about it all also? I certainly won't.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 07:49:09 AM
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon).

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...
The mere fact that it's not a moon boot print, the same as the others, I'd say it is convincing.
Oh and the Russians had their own little scam going on. Unless  you think this piece of crap industrial tea urn landed on the moon and if you do, then ...well, what can I say.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2913/lunokhodt.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/lunokhodt.jpg/)

Just so you know what it is, here's the link.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html)

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 07:52:17 AM
Piece of advice RyanTG-Don't talk to Sceptimatic.  PRetty much anything else you can imagine doing is more worthwhile.  He has the logical facuties of a badger and you will regret every conversation you have with him.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 17, 2013, 07:56:42 AM
Piece of advice RyanTG-Don't talk to Sceptimatic.  PRetty much anything else you can imagine doing is more worthwhile.  He has the logical facuties of a badger and you will regret every conversation you have with him.
Says the smart person who thinks she knows it all.

In case you did not know, I am a man.  In case you are did, misogyny is not appreciated on the forums.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 08:03:29 AM
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon).

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...
The mere fact that it's not a moon boot print, the same as the others, I'd say it is convincing.
Oh and the Russians had their own little scam going on. Unless  you think this piece of crap industrial tea urn landed on the moon and if you do, then ...well, what can I say.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2913/lunokhodt.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/lunokhodt.jpg/)

Just so you know what it is, here's the link.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html)

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.
Let me tell you where I am at, just so you know.
There is "nothing" man made in space, "anywhere", which means, there are no moon landers, retro reflectors, moon buggies, or Mars rovers or satellites, or probes, in fact, not even a pair of tweezers, in what we are told to perceive is space.
That's my opinion.

Oh my lord. Not to be offensive or anything but you do have some sort of neurological illness? Or are having idiosyncratic ideas just a hobby for you? How can you believe there is nothing in space, seriously? What about the thousands of physicists and engineers that work on space telescopes? What are they doing with their life? What about the hundreds of people at NASA who have spent their lives getting in that position, they just don't care?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: markjo on May 17, 2013, 08:14:16 AM
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon)
(http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/64/15-86-11670print.jpg)
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 08:19:42 AM
They're simply working on telescopes. We use them on earth.

SPACE telescopes, like the Spitzer telescope, the Kepler telescope that has a faulty wheel was in the news recently, it may be incapable of being fixed. The brings me onto another topic, I will take an excerpt from wikipedia because it better explains it:

"Since the atmosphere is opaque for most of the electromagnetic spectrum, only a few bands can be observed from the Earth's surface. These bands are visible – near-infrared and a portion of the radio-wave part of the spectrum. For this reason there are no X-ray or far-infrared ground-based telescopes as these have to be flown in space to observe. Even if a wavelength is observable from the ground, it might still be advantageous to fly it on a satellite due to astronomical seeing."

There are no x-ray/far-infrared/UV ground based telescopes, there isn't one that exists on the planet, that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is completely absorbed by the atmosphere, so where do we get x-ray/UV/infrared images from? Please don't give me an answer that appeals to conspiracy theories again...
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Manarq on May 17, 2013, 08:26:57 AM
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon)
(http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/64/15-86-11670print.jpg)
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
It looks less distorted on the 2nd picture (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg)) and looks to be the same width.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rip Riley on May 17, 2013, 08:58:28 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.

Ever wonder why Mars is so boring?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
They're simply working on telescopes. We use them on earth.

SPACE telescopes, like the Spitzer telescope, the Kepler telescope that has a faulty wheel was in the news recently, it may be incapable of being fixed. The brings me onto another topic, I will take an excerpt from wikipedia because it better explains it:

"Since the atmosphere is opaque for most of the electromagnetic spectrum, only a few bands can be observed from the Earth's surface. These bands are visible – near-infrared and a portion of the radio-wave part of the spectrum. For this reason there are no X-ray or far-infrared ground-based telescopes as these have to be flown in space to observe. Even if a wavelength is observable from the ground, it might still be advantageous to fly it on a satellite due to astronomical seeing."

There are no x-ray/far-infrared/UV ground based telescopes, there isn't one that exists on the planet, that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is completely absorbed by the atmosphere, so where do we get x-ray/UV/infrared images from? Please don't give me an answer that appeals to conspiracy theories again...
What pictures are you talking about?


I have literally just spent over half an hour trying to upload images so I give up, it isn't working...

Just google Fermi gamma-ray Telescope images, GALEX images (UV), and the Chandra X-ray Observatory images.

You will see just a few, the images will be falsely coloured as to bring out aspects of the image that are of relevance.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 17, 2013, 09:27:08 AM
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon)
(http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/6/64/15-86-11670print.jpg)
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
It looks less distorted on the 2nd picture (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg)) and looks to be the same width.

It looks like to boot print is sloping down from left to right.   The tread appears shallow on the left and deep on the right.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 09:42:29 AM
They're simply working on telescopes. We use them on earth.

SPACE telescopes, like the Spitzer telescope, the Kepler telescope that has a faulty wheel was in the news recently, it may be incapable of being fixed. The brings me onto another topic, I will take an excerpt from wikipedia because it better explains it:

"Since the atmosphere is opaque for most of the electromagnetic spectrum, only a few bands can be observed from the Earth's surface. These bands are visible – near-infrared and a portion of the radio-wave part of the spectrum. For this reason there are no X-ray or far-infrared ground-based telescopes as these have to be flown in space to observe. Even if a wavelength is observable from the ground, it might still be advantageous to fly it on a satellite due to astronomical seeing."

There are no x-ray/far-infrared/UV ground based telescopes, there isn't one that exists on the planet, that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is completely absorbed by the atmosphere, so where do we get x-ray/UV/infrared images from? Please don't give me an answer that appeals to conspiracy theories again...
What pictures are you talking about?


I have literally just spent over half an hour trying to upload images so I give up, it isn't working...

Just google Fermi gamma-ray Telescope images, GALEX images (UV), and the Chandra X-ray Observatory images.

You will see just a few, the images will be falsely coloured as to bring out aspects of the image that are of relevance.
Yeah, it seems all of the images are coloured and made to look pretty and painted and everything else, because they tell us that space is just soooo boring to look at normally.

It's like the images of earth: They take the supposed pictures of it and brighten everything up because otherwise it would look crap.
They also use computer images and artists paintings because , well, earth is just so dull and boring.

 ::)

Are you go to provide any sort of rebuttal to these space telescopes or are you going to go on about nothing? I wish I hadn't even mentioned the false colours now...  If the images weren't falsely coloured you'd be looking at a black and white image on a sphere with dots or a concentric circle. You need the colours added or else you couldn't tell what you were looking at, humans can only see the visible spectrum of light.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 09:54:55 AM
Show me some pictures Ryan.

You honestly don't care do you? You have no endeavour for truth or knowledge, you'd happily shield yourself in this worldview of conspiracy theories and irrational thinking.


I will do your investigating research for you: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/12/20-12-st_nasapsd/ (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/12/20-12-st_nasapsd/)

Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 10:08:43 AM
Show me some pictures Ryan.

You honestly don't care do you? You have no endeavour for truth or knowledge, you'd happily shield yourself in this worldview of conspiracy theories and irrational thinking.
It depends what you mean by, don't care.
For you to say my thinking is irrational, is to make out that what you subscribe to is perfectly,100% truth.
Well guess what...
I think you and all other people who simply hang onto stuff like this, are the irrational ones, I really do.
I already know what the truth is, so I'm quite happy with that, yet proving it is another matter and at the end of the day, nothing will change.

If you can't see past your own nose and want to fill your head full of garbage equations and allow yourself to be constantly in awe of fraudsters, then be my guest, as your life matters not to me, just as mine matters not to you.

Are you really not persuaded by the fact x-ray/gamma/far-infrared images cannot be made on earth but must be made in space? You are still going to cling on to your demonstrably refuted idea?

As the great Richard Feynman said: "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."

Replace experiment with "reality" and you're nearly there my friend.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 10:28:26 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to it and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 17, 2013, 10:34:48 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to you and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.

As was stated before,  replying to anything scepti says is an exercise of futility.  He flat out refuses to even contemplate anything other than a FE and then accuses others of being indoctrinated.   Best to say your piece and then move on to someone else instead.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 10:35:27 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to you and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.

As was stated before,  replying to anything scepti says is an exercise of futility.  He flat out refuses to even contemplate anything other than a FE and then accuses others of being indoctrinated.   Best to say your piece and then move on to someone else instead.

I think that is the best thing to do...
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: robintex on May 17, 2013, 10:40:07 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to you and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.

As was stated before,  replying to anything scepti says is an exercise of futility.  He flat out refuses to even contemplate anything other than a FE and then accuses others of being indoctrinated.   Best to say your piece and then move on to someone else instead.

I think that is the best thing to do...

I think the subject of the distance from the earth to the moon is a good example. FE doesn't even seem to be in agreement of whether the distance is 15KM or whether it is 3000 Miles, but they definitely don't believe it's something like 237,150 Miles.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: robintex on May 17, 2013, 10:46:39 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to you and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.
You can babble on till the cows come home but it doesn't change the fact that we are being "monumentally" lied to "time" and "time" again.
What you have been told, about the shape of the earth and space is mainly fabricated and yet you stamp and scream and use all kinds of F= blah blah blah to appear smart but the truth is, you are only memory smart, as in, you take in what your masters tell you and teach you, then relay that back to them on a test sheet, for the grand prize of a certificate and a pat on the head.

You will never, or shall I say, you will unlikely, ever change your stance, because you are in awe of those that have fed you a large helping of Pinocchio science.

Well, we just have to go on making things work on the earth with that "Pinocchio Science."

Sceptimatic ,I hope you never have to get a job with any of the airlines, steam ship lines, government agencies or navies of the world. You would certainly flunk the entrance exams.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Amalgafiend on May 17, 2013, 10:48:28 AM
You can babble on till the cows come home but it doesn't change the fact that we are being "monumentally" lied to "time" and "time" again.

Babbling does not make something false, the fact that it cannot be scientifically tested means its false.

Quote
What you have been told, about the shape of the earth and space is mainly fabricated and yet you stamp and scream and use all kinds of F= blah blah blah to appear smart but the truth is, you are only memory smart, as in, you take in what your masters tell you and teach you, then relay that back to them on a test sheet, for the grand prize of a certificate and a pat on the head.
--->
Quote
What you have been told, about the shape of the earth and space is mainly conjectured and yet you stamp and scream and use all kinds of F= blah blah blah to appear smart but the truth is, you are only memory smart, as in, you take in what your masters tell you and teach you, then relay that back to them on a test sheet, for the grand prize of a certificate and a pat on the head.


Fixed and correct.
Quote
You will never, or shall I say, you will unlikely, ever change your stance, because you are in awe of those that have fed you a large helping of Pinocchio science.

pot meet kettle.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Amalgafiend on May 17, 2013, 10:51:54 AM
If I really needed the job, I'd lie my way through the exams.

Don't you mean you would truth your way through them, hoping that the cognitive dissonance won't sink in?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: robintex on May 17, 2013, 10:56:39 AM
If I really needed the job, I'd lie my way through the exams.

If you passed the exams by "lieing" , then you would have to "lie" all through the job to keep your job.

I'm not really sure if it would really sink in after a while in the case of Sceptimatic.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 17, 2013, 10:59:03 AM
If I really needed the job, I'd lie my way through the exams.

I find it hard to believe you'd have the mental capacity to " lie" your way through an exam for any job which would be effected by the shape of the earth as these involve those evil and vile things called equations.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Amalgafiend on May 17, 2013, 11:00:13 AM
If I really needed the job, I'd lie my way through the exams.

If you passed the exams by "lieing" "lying" , then you would have to "lie" all through the job to keep your job.

I'm not really sure if it would really sink in after a while in the case of Sceptimatic.

Sceptimatic is impressionable; the reason he hasn't changed his mind is beacuse he stays in his room and only comes and chats on the flat earth society forums.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 11:01:58 AM
Talking to you is like trying to debate with a plank...

That is my exact point, you have not mentioned the images because you have absolutely nothing to say that could possibly refute it, you don't care about the truth or reality, you have your ideology and you're sticking to you and no doubt in a few weeks you will come up with this "brilliant" explanation to how we have x-ray images without there ever being a need for space telescopes that will most likely involve another grand conspiracy.

Science is a lot more beautiful, enthralling and enticing than these pathetic, and they really are pathetic, convictions that you are cherishing so dearly that defy all information/knowledge that we as a species have accumulated over the past millennium.
You can babble on till the cows come home but it doesn't change the fact that we are being "monumentally" lied to "time" and "time" again.
What you have been told, about the shape of the earth and space is mainly fabricated and yet you stamp and scream and use all kinds of F= blah blah blah to appear smart but the truth is, you are only memory smart, as in, you take in what your masters tell you and teach you, then relay that back to them on a test sheet, for the grand prize of a certificate and a pat on the head.

You will never, or shall I say, you will unlikely, ever change your stance, because you are in awe of those that have fed you a large helping of Pinocchio science.

Well, we just have to go on making things work on the earth with that "Pinocchio Science."

Sceptimatic ,I hope you never have to get a job with any of the airlines, steam ship lines, government agencies or navies of the world. You would certainly flunk the entrance exams.

All I asked you about was how X-ray/gamma and UV images are made when those specific parts of the electromagnetic spectrum cannot make it through the earth's atmosphere? Are you going to say the electromagnetic spectrum doesn't exist either?

Why should I believe anything you tell people instead of experts in academia who actually know what they are talking about? Why should I discard the existence of gravity and also believe the earth goes on for infinity? I require evidence.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 17, 2013, 11:13:57 AM

All I asked you about was how X-ray/gamma and UV images are made when those specific parts of the electromagnetic spectrum cannot make it through the earth's atmosphere? Are you going to say the electromagnetic spectrum doesn't exist either?

Why should I believe anything you tell people instead of experts in academia who actually know what they are talking about? Why should I discard the existence of gravity and also believe the earth goes on for infinity? I require evidence.
I'm not asking you to discard anything. Go with what you feel is right. I'm simply telling you that a lot of what you are learning is Pinocchio science when it's concerning space and the shape of the earth.

Come at this from my position, I have this guy on a flatearth forum telling me the science I know concerning the shape of the earth and space is either a fabricated lie or just erroneous in general.
How do I differentiate between what is reality and what isn't?
If I had a position of saying the earth is actually flat, but the illuminati (insert stupid conspiracy theory here) was constantly beaming a hologram into space to give the illusion the earth was spherical and there are satellites etc, would that be more correct than what the consensus of this issue is? That the world is in fact spherical and there are in fact satellites? Or would it still be completely wrong because it goes against your idea that the earth is not a hologram and has an infinite length?
What i'm getting at here, is your perceived reality of the universe the CORRECT one? Or are you open to the idea it may be wrong but you are certain all other ideas concerning a spherical earth etc are fake?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 18, 2013, 05:42:33 AM
The inability to assert scientific knowledge to you has nothing to do with the science and everything to do with your willful ignorance.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 18, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
The inability to assert scientific knowledge to you has nothing to do with the science and everything to do with your willful ignorance.
My wilful ignorance is only due to wilful ignorance of long nosed science, thought up by long nose scientists.
I'm open to genuine science.

You have no idea what genuine science is. You discard it all the time. And don't be a child and blame your ignorance on someone else, it's pathetic.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 18, 2013, 07:13:07 AM
I'm open to genuine science.

LOL nice joke scepti.

yet you stamp and scream and use all kinds of F= blah blah blah to appear smart

That would be F=ma, and it's a very simple equation that I've never thought of touting around in order to make me look smart. It may be beyond your comprehension, sure, but it's merely an introductory physics equation that governs the dynamics of every motion around us.

In case you did not know, I am a man.  In case you are did, misogyny is not appreciated on the forums.
My apologies, I assumed you were a girl.

Oh wow, did you just make an obvious mistake? How is that possible? I thought you were some kind of genius that was going to revolutionize modern science by telling us that gravity and space doesn't exist and that all the physics equations we have are a lie. But now I'm not so sure...


I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.

He doesn't even believe the ISS is orbiting Earth, even though it can be seen with a telescope.
You sound like me. I guess you're studying aerospace engineering? I'm doing a bachelor of science (advanced mathematics).
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 18, 2013, 09:00:07 AM
You are actually correct there. I don't think too many people actually know what genuine science is, because it's masked in-between a mountain of bull crap.

Do you know what genuine science is? Are FEers conducting genuine science?


There are no man made objects of any description in what they tell us, is space, as in, a "vacuum."

Yet you can see the ISS up there, and it's not slowing down any time soon due to air resistance.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 18, 2013, 08:02:00 PM
You are actually correct there. I don't think too many people actually know what genuine science is, because it's masked in-between a mountain of bull crap.

Do you know what genuine science is? Are FEers conducting genuine science?


There are no man made objects of any description in what they tell us, is space, as in, a "vacuum."

Yet you can see the ISS up there, and it's not slowing down any time soon due to air resistance.
Stop telling lies. You can not see any man made object in space.

You can. Read along with the "if the sun is black...."  topic in the debate section. The iss can be seen from earth, with the naked eye. Just use one of the many ISS trackeres available to you to see when it is visible for your location. Using a telescope will show you it is the ISS for sure.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 19, 2013, 05:37:28 AM
Tom, no, I don't see a need for a conspiracy.  Above that its an irrelevant matter.  Small people talk about people and their actions;  we are talking about truth.   We need not worry about a conspiracy as the time is almost upon us.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 19, 2013, 05:45:27 AM
What people perceive as a space station, is a blob of light and that's it. All those that say they see a space station that they can see as an object that looks like what they see in photo's are simply lying.
If anyone else sees an object with a shape to it, it's either a high altitude plane or something like that, in our atmosphere, not in space.

From the mouth of babes...
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 19, 2013, 06:27:12 AM
You are actually correct there. I don't think too many people actually know what genuine science is, because it's masked in-between a mountain of bull crap.

Do you know what genuine science is? Are FEers conducting genuine science?


There are no man made objects of any description in what they tell us, is space, as in, a "vacuum."

Yet you can see the ISS up there, and it's not slowing down any time soon due to air resistance.
Stop telling lies. You can not see any man made object in space.

There's obviously no point arguing with you about that topic, so I'll drop it now before I bust another brain cell.

I'm still waiting for the answer to my other question though. What constitutes "genuine science"? And are FEers conducting it correctly?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 19, 2013, 06:55:23 AM
Genuine science is a science that can be backed up with physical or observable evidence and not having to be relied upon by a theory that main stream science construes as being fact.

Ok, that's cool. Do you believe that FET has become what it is today by following these rules?

What happens when you have a theory about Earth's shape, then you find observable evidence that doesn't fit in with this theory?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 19, 2013, 07:11:52 AM
I'm intrigued that you subscribe to an "infinite flat earth" after you state numerous times you base your ideas on observational evidence, or what you can derive yourself through your senses.

How on earth have you observed an infinite earth? You must admit you are essentially guessing here.

We cannot live and prosper by using our senses to formulate an image of the universe around us. I don't perceive there be an infinitely flat earth? So it is my word against yours. Putting all knowledge of a spherical earth behind me, I'd probably perceive the earth to be spherical, I've been on a plane, the earth seems to have a curvature (which you say it doesn't, once again our senses do not agree) and i've seen objects in the distance disappear below the horizon, which you may have some extravagant explanation behind why that can occur without there being a spherical earth, but you have not derived that through physical observations?

We need some sort of system to develop a working model of the universe that everybody agrees on. Senses are ambiguous. What you perceive to be true may not what I perceive to be true, so how do we know what really is the truth?

*EDIT* You mentioned in your earlier topics that "There appears to be 3 types of people on here. Flat Earth believers, spinning Round Earth believers and people like myself which go with a stationary round Earth" And that you do not believe in a flat earth, what made you change your mind all of sudden?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 07:31:17 AM
What people perceive as a space station, is a blob of light and that's it. All those that say they see a space station that they can see as an object that looks like what they see in photo's are simply lying.
If anyone else sees an object with a shape to it, it's either a high altitude plane or something like that, in our atmosphere, not in space.

You can see the ISS in detail using a telescope. And what do you know? It looks exactly like all those pictures out there. You never looked at the ISS obviously. And if you go out and see the ISS, tell me where the engines are at, tell me where the wings are at. Here is an amateur photo of the ISS, taken from earth (using a telescope) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PVqvcAlmZVM/TtoXyZimsyI/AAAAAAAACRs/qQTzwiWaWlo/s1600/ISS_20081227_074532t.small.jpg)
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 19, 2013, 07:33:05 AM
No photo was posted.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 07:40:14 AM
There is very little hope for you if you think that is supposed to be a frigging space station.  ;D

It is the space station. Have you ever seen the ISS yourself or are you just denying everything without verifying what we say?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 19, 2013, 07:43:58 AM
You never really answered my question about how we know what is absolute truth by way of observation and using our senses. I don't really want to talk about scientists or education or any of that sort, I just want to figure this out.

I'll use the example of consciousness. I advocate the idea of materialism, that is the mind (brain) causes our consciousness by means of neuronal firings etc, which you may or may not agree with, but by observation, when somebody gets hit in the head they become mentally impaired, their consciousness is effected.

There is a phenomenon called an OBE, out of body experience. This is when people believe they float above their body, their consciousness transcends their body and they can perceive the world around them. By observation alone, (if you experienced this) you would come to the conclusion you really transcended your body. Have you really transcended your body however? This a perfect example of the human senses can be extremely fallible.

If you subscribe to the idea of materialism like me, you should conclude that no, you cannot transcend your body it is merely a neurological hallucination. But going by senses alone one would believe they are capable of leaving their body at will.

So how do we go about deciding what is right and what is wrong? In this endeavour for truth, there needs to be some sort of system in place that will enable us to differentiate between the truth and illusions. We certainly cannot use our senses, the zetetic method is prone to unbelievable fallibility.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 07:50:29 AM
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?
No, I am a flat earther that believes in no conspiracy.

Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.

In my theory there is a pink flying hippo with a trail of rainbow colours flying through the sky. How come the biologist never reported or documented it. They must be in on a conspiracy.

It is circular thinking. You set yourself a limit to exclude something or to proof that something is part of a conspiracy. See my example, ever saw a pink hippo with a trail of rainbow colours fly through the sky? No? Then you must be indoctrinated to believe there is not! The biologists are conspiring against us for greed. You are not thinking about the possibility that your 3000 miles are wrong?

To continue my PFH-theory (Pink Flying Hippo)
Here is the link to what a flying hippo should look like. (Obviously FET never took a picture from space, and get a long with some computer generated image, so why can't the flying hippo) And to make things even more credible, FE defenders post pictures from low altitude showing a flat horizon...well guess what I also have a picture of a pink hippo. So yeah, there is totally some thruth in it. Pink flying hippos with rainbow colours for the win! (http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5395095/il_fullxfull.180811108.jpg)
(http://img.burrard-lucas.com/kenya/normal/pink_hippopotamus.jpg)
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Rama Set on May 19, 2013, 07:51:09 AM
They are liars and if you have seen that picture in space from your own telescope, then you are also a liar.

Among the stupidest sentences ever recorded.  Sig'd.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 19, 2013, 07:51:56 AM
Once you find observable evidence that can be thoroughly backed up without the use of manipulation and indoctrination, I'd say it would destroy any other theory.

Awesome, so the only real difference between the scientific method and your genuine science is that you believe all previous work done by mainstream science is "manipulation and indoctrination", which is definitely not a problem. In case you didn't already know, FET hasn't been ripped apart simply because mainstream science says so, but because observational evidence disagrees.

Do you know of anything that has or can destroy the flat earth theory that you can personally back up?

Everyone knows that the sun falls into the horizon, but this is not possible on a flat Earth. Is that not an example of observational evidence that isn't based on manipulation and indoctrination, but also destroys the flat Earth theory?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 19, 2013, 07:55:56 AM
They are liars and if you have seen that picture in space from your own telescope, then you are also a liar.

Among the stupidest sentences ever recorded.  Sig'd.

Not so much stupidity as it is paranoia.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 07:56:19 AM

Yes I've seen the ISS, in model form. There's loads of pictures of the model on the net. I've never seen it in space, because it does not exist, except from liars who post up stupid images of what's supposed to be the ISS in space.
They are liars and if you have seen that picture in space from your own telescope, then you are also a liar.

Guess what Sceptimatic, because you never looked into space on a clear night sky. It is a very simple way to verify it.

Use one of the ISS trackers available to you. Here is a tool to determine when it will be visible for your location, along with the times. http://iss.astroviewer.net/observation.php (http://iss.astroviewer.net/observation.php)
Just go out in the night and see it for yourself and if you have a telescope yourself, you can even see the details yourself.
You don't believe it, because you do not want to see it...use the tool I gave you and go out. You will have nothing more to say it does not exist. 

Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 19, 2013, 08:03:21 AM
Logic will dictate that it's all a load of old tripe for many people.
You were told the earth is rotating and is a globe and you believe it because you are conscious of the masses believing the same thing.
Go and run into a packed church and tell them there is no god, then stay around for questions and answers.

It all depends on how you view things and how people view you.
A thousand people can kneel and pray to an invisible god and all will be fine.
You start walking the streets talking to your invisible friend and you will end up in a straight jacket.

What's real and what isn't, is a matter of using one's own logic, yet we are geared to ridicule each other if that logic differs from what others believe.

The flaw with that analogy is that more and more people are becoming Atheists because logically, it makes sense, but less and less people are believing in a flat Earth, because logically, it doesn't make sense.

The flat Earth belief IS theism, so don't go comparing it to atheism because that's simply being dishonest.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 19, 2013, 08:05:55 AM
You never really answered my question about how we know what is absolute truth by way of observation and using our senses. I don't really want to talk about scientists or education or any of that sort, I just want to figure this out.

I'll use the example of consciousness. I advocate the idea of materialism, that is the mind (brain) causes our consciousness by means of neuronal firings etc, which you may or may not agree with, but by observation, when somebody gets hit in the head they become mentally impaired, their consciousness is effected.

There is a phenomenon called an OBE, out of body experience. This is when people believe they float above their body, their consciousness transcends their body and they can perceive the world around them. By observation alone, (if you experienced this) you would come to the conclusion you really transcended your body. Have you really transcended your body however? This a perfect example of the human senses can be extremely fallible.

If you subscribe to the idea of materialism like me, you should conclude that no, you cannot transcend your body it is merely a neurological hallucination. But going by senses alone one would believe they are capable of leaving their body at will.

So how do we go about deciding what is right and what is wrong? In this endeavour for truth, there needs to be some sort of system in place that will enable us to differentiate between the truth and illusions. We certainly cannot use our senses, the zetetic method is prone to unbelievable fallibility.
The truth is, we don't even know our own minds, we do not know what is true and what is not true in terms of out of body, death etc experiences, so we have to go on what we perceive whilst we are conscious, as in, bodily functioning real world conscious, so on that note, we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see.
It's like a belief in a god, or Noah or Moses, etc.
An historian can tell you all you need to know about Noah and Jesus and what not and you can recite all that to the next generation and yet you believe it all, (not you) or you have faith that's it's all what it was in those times.
There's people today that are looking for Noahs boat and believing he was over 800 years old.
Ask kids of today who built the Ark and most will tell you that Noah did and that he took all the animals in two by two.

People believe that and who is to say they are wrong to believe that?
Logic will dictate that it's all a load of old tripe for many people.
You were told the earth is rotating and is a globe and you believe it because you are conscious of the masses believing the same thing.
Go and run into a packed church and tell them there is no god, then stay around for questions and answers.

It all depends on how you view things and how people view you.
A thousand people can kneel and pray to an invisible god and all will be fine.
You start walking the streets talking to your invisible friend and you will end up in a straight jacket.

What's real and what isn't, is a matter of using one's own logic, yet we are geared to ridicule each other if that logic differs from what others believe.

You cannot equate a round Earth with faith without also equating flat Earth with faith.  How about you go into a physics department and explain to a professor that F does not in fact = M*A.  And then try to actually LISTEN to his explanation instead of shutting your brain down, poking your fingers in your ears and saying "Lalalala"
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 08:14:15 AM
Sceptimatic. Did you see my theory of pink flying hippos with shooting trails of rainbow colour? Just between you and me...it is real for sure.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 19, 2013, 08:19:34 AM
You have built this worldview, it seems, so that everybody that advocates the mainstream consensus view on a topic is wrong but those that derive an answer through their own logical reasoning may not be correct, but are more correct than the first group. So I don't really have an opinion because I have been "indoctrinated", but your answers are perfectly valid because you formulated them yourself with no outside influences.

"...we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see."

Don't you think that sort of reasoning is baseless or extremely unreliable? Why do you think so many people believe in psychics, ghosts, demons, useless alternative medications, UFOs, telepathy, auras etc?

They believe in them because they are applying the same method as you are advocating, believing in what one can observe through "logic" and through their senses.

Yet when they are tested under rigorous controlled studies, they all collapse in on themselves, there simply is nothing to them, ghosts do not exist, demons cannot possess people. Yet there are hundreds of millions of people, especially in third world countries that subscribe to this sort of witchcraft. People are stoned, in the 21st century because one person accuses another of possessing another's body or casting curses or demons on someone.

There are people who believe they can predict the future, which is absolutely absurd, but according to you, because they have this idea which has been derived through observation, they are perfectly correct in their reasoning.

Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Lolflatdisc on May 19, 2013, 08:31:00 AM
You have built this worldview, it seems, so that everybody that advocates the mainstream consensus view on a topic is wrong but those that derive an answer through their own logical reasoning may not be correct, but are more correct than the first group. So I don't really have an opinion because I have been "indoctrinated", but your answers are perfectly valid because you formulated them yourself with no outside influences.

"...we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see."

Don't you think that sort of reasoning is baseless or extremely unreliable? Why do you think so many people believe in psychics, ghosts, demons, useless alternative medications, UFOs, telepathy, auras etc?

They believe in them because they are applying the same method as you are advocating, believing in what one can observe through "logic" and through their senses.

Yet when they are tested under rigorous controlled studies, they all collapse in on themselves, there simply is nothing to them, ghosts do not exist, demons cannot possess people. Yet there are hundreds of millions of people, especially in third world countries that subscribe to this sort of witchcraft. People are stoned, in the 21st century because one person accuses another of possessing another's body or casting curses or demons on someone.

There are people who believe they can predict the future, which is absolutely absurd, but according to you, because they have this idea which has been derived through observation, they are perfectly correct in their reasoning.
Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia)
Quote
Paranoia /ˌpærəˈnɔɪə/ (adjective: paranoid /ˈpærənɔɪd/) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. (e.g. "Everyone is out to get me.") Making false accusations and the general distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 19, 2013, 09:00:08 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 20, 2013, 09:38:59 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: RyanTG on May 20, 2013, 10:42:02 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).

Of course it does, this cuts to the core of my argument, that the scientific method and the scientific approach to any situation is the most reliable by far, not this fallacious "zetetic method".

There are obviously biases that creep into investigations when it comes to science, but humans are humans and humans are fallible. That is why there is a peer review system in place and an incentive to repeat studies to verify data.

Scepti's conclusions are not formed on the basis of any rigorous and controlled studies, they are formed on wishful thinking and the illusion anything he perceive's and his subsequent reasoning behind his observation is in fact the answer to the question he has. This is the same for people who believe that psychics, ghosts, demons, UFOs etc exist. It is a flawed methodology mixed in with logical fallacies that leads them to this conclusion.

Chinese medicine for example has no basis in science, people believe ground up rhino horn will prolong their life and cure them of all illnesses because of hearsay, confirmation bias and associating correlation with causation.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 20, 2013, 10:53:41 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).

You don't have to will yourself to believe in observations and the subsequent theorems that spawn from these observations.  You have to will yourself to ignore these observations or believe something much larger and more complicated is responsible.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 06:09:48 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).

You don't have to will yourself to believe in observations and the subsequent theorems that spawn from these observations.  You have to will yourself to ignore these observations or believe something much larger and more complicated is responsible.

When one does not will to believe something enough to overcome the norm, one is subject to the beliefs already in the subconscious sphere.  Confirmation bias creates scientific predictability.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: DuckDodgers on May 21, 2013, 06:16:34 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).

You don't have to will yourself to believe in observations and the subsequent theorems that spawn from these observations.  You have to will yourself to ignore these observations or believe something much larger and more complicated is responsible.

When one does not will to believe something enough to overcome the norm, one is subject to the beliefs already in the subconscious sphere.  Confirmation bias creates scientific predictability.

When one carries out experiments to test predicted results and finds the experimental results match up, no will is needed.   This is of course barring methodology errors.   And if you want to get into confirmation bias talk about "bendy light".  That is by far the worst case of it I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 06:51:45 AM
In what way do people who believe in the existence of ghosts or demons differ in the way they conclude that they exist compared to the way you conclude there are no satellites in space or that the earth is an infinite plane?

And I am not twisting anything, I am using what you just wrote to me in multiple paragraphs, "we have to be able to physically verify what we see, or rely on faith as to what we think we can see".

If you don't like how I summarise and use what you write you should be a little more clear.
I don't think in the end the will to believe differs regardless of its subject (science, empiricism, flat earth, round earth, jesus, luck, patriotism, god etc).

You don't have to will yourself to believe in observations and the subsequent theorems that spawn from these observations.  You have to will yourself to ignore these observations or believe something much larger and more complicated is responsible.

When one does not will to believe something enough to overcome the norm, one is subject to the beliefs already in the subconscious sphere.  Confirmation bias creates scientific predictability.

When one carries out experiments to test predicted results and finds the experimental results match up, no will is needed.
How does this contradict what I said?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 06:59:00 AM
If you could directly prove anything you say, you would not be here now. The fact that you are here is because you have a niggling doubt about your own schooling on stuff and are looking for some clarification.
You will probably deny this but I'm sure you aren't here just to shoot down the flat earth theory alone.

I first came here because I was curious, and not because I doubted RET.

And now I more strongly believe the Earth is round, because this forum has exposed me to many more proofs that it is as such.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 07:26:27 AM
So now you are still here to prove that the earth is a globe right?
I've already proven to myself without a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is round.

You are satisfied that the earth is a globe 100%, am I correct on this, or is there an element of doubt still in your mind?
I'm convinced without a shadow of a doubt, but that doesn't mean I'm 100% sure. I can't be 100% sure about anything related to science.

But to re-iterate: I have no element of doubt in my mind.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 07:49:25 AM
Are you absolutely convinced the Earth is flat?

I'd kind of (just maybe) understand how you could think be absolutely convinced that the Earth isn't a sphere, but could you really be 100% sure that the Earth is flat? I mean, considering that you think that RET doesn't add up, I can't imagine how you could feel that FET does add up.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 07:54:15 AM
As far as the world goes, I am absolutely convinced the Earth is flat, hollow and round.  To me, I'm absolutely sure the Earth is flat.

I am also certain of the time, the capacity of the sphere, its current state, and the time coming. 

The time is The Flat Earth Society. Get ready.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 08:04:40 AM
Are you absolutely convinced the Earth is flat?

I'd kind of (just maybe) understand how you could think be absolutely convinced that the Earth isn't a sphere, but could you really be 100% sure that the Earth is flat? I mean, considering that you think that RET doesn't add up, I can't imagine how you could feel that FET does add up.
I am 100% convinced it's flat in my mind.

How could you possibly be convinced by the pseudo-scientific theories of FET such as bendy light, perspective and a bunch of maps that are completely wrong while simultaneously finding mainstream science to be wrong?


As far as the world goes, I am absolutely convinced the Earth is flat, hollow and round.  To me, I'm absolutely sure the Earth is flat.

I am also certain of the time, the capacity of the sphere, its current state, and the time coming. 

The time is The Flat Earth Society. Get ready.

For how many years have you been saying this now?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 08:07:44 AM
Are you absolutely convinced the Earth is flat?

I'd kind of (just maybe) understand how you could think be absolutely convinced that the Earth isn't a sphere, but could you really be 100% sure that the Earth is flat? I mean, considering that you think that RET doesn't add up, I can't imagine how you could feel that FET does add up.
I am 100% convinced it's flat in my mind.

How could you possibly be convinced by the pseudo-scientific theories of FET such as bendy light, perspective and a bunch of maps that are completely wrong while simultaneously finding mainstream science to be wrong?


As far as the world goes, I am absolutely convinced the Earth is flat, hollow and round.  To me, I'm absolutely sure the Earth is flat.

I am also certain of the time, the capacity of the sphere, its current state, and the time coming. 

The time is The Flat Earth Society. Get ready.

For how many years have you been saying this now?
I'm not that great with time, years etc.  However, I believe you would say less than a year;  since my last mystical revelation.

A silly question though.  The year itself is irrelevant.  The age has changed -- also irrelevant.

It has been said that if people truly understood at an intimate level what I'm doing, the Awakening of Man would be at hand.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 08:21:09 AM
I'm not that great with time, years etc.  However, I believe you would say less than a year;  since my last mystical revelation.

A silly question though.  The year itself is irrelevant.  The age has changed -- also irrelevant.

It has been said that if people truly understood at an intimate level what I'm doing, the Awakening of Man would be at hand.

Are you high?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 08:25:55 AM
I'm not that great with time, years etc.  However, I believe you would say less than a year;  since my last mystical revelation.

A silly question though.  The year itself is irrelevant.  The age has changed -- also irrelevant.

It has been said that if people truly understood at an intimate level what I'm doing, the Awakening of Man would be at hand.

Are you high?
I'd say I'm more middle.  However, to answer you in the way you wish, no I am not under the influence of narcotics or other illegal substances.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: hoppy on May 21, 2013, 08:26:14 AM
I'm not that great with time, years etc.  However, I believe you would say less than a year;  since my last mystical revelation.

A silly question though.  The year itself is irrelevant.  The age has changed -- also irrelevant.

It has been said that if people truly understood at an intimate level what I'm doing, the Awakening of Man would be at hand.

Are you high?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 08:41:34 AM
Why do you ask?  Is it that you feel that drugs invalidate a situations worth or its fruit?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 08:56:44 AM
I was giving you a chance to show that you have some sanity left in you.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: squevil on May 21, 2013, 09:23:45 AM
Are you absolutely convinced the Earth is flat?

I'd kind of (just maybe) understand how you could think be absolutely convinced that the Earth isn't a sphere, but could you really be 100% sure that the Earth is flat? I mean, considering that you think that RET doesn't add up, I can't imagine how you could feel that FET does add up.
I am 100% convinced it's flat in my mind.

funny how you removed all your posts when you came here saying the earth was round. earlier in this thread you also stated it was your own logic that made you think the earth is flat.

you first came here telling everyone that the earth was a stationary globe.

you came here to pretend that you was unsure.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 21, 2013, 09:44:46 AM
I was giving you a chance to show that you have some sanity left in you.
Why do you think I am insane?  How is insanity an invalid frame of reference?
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: robintex on May 21, 2013, 11:16:20 AM


Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
[/quote]

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
[/quote]

P.S. Check out the Poll on Ham Radio Measurements Of The Distance From The Earth To The Moon subject on the forum . There seems to be a disagreement of the distance even amongst FE's. There are 3 votes for the 3000 miles distance and 3 votes for the 15KM distance at last count.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: hoppy on May 21, 2013, 01:26:51 PM
Why do you ask?  Is it that you feel that drugs invalidate a situations worth or its fruit?
Your statements seemed vague and rambling. Drugs can change ones perception of reality and their ability to express it. Drugs don't invalidate a situations worth, I was just having trouble determining perceiving your reason for posting. Perhaps I should not have.been so judgemental, forgive me.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Puttah on May 21, 2013, 08:51:17 PM
Why do you ask?  Is it that you feel that drugs invalidate a situations worth or its fruit?
Your statements seemed vague and rambling. Drugs can change ones perception of reality and their ability to express it. Drugs don't invalidate a situations worth, I was just having trouble determining perceiving your reason for posting. Perhaps I should not have.been so judgemental, forgive me.

Forgive us John Davis.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: John Davis on May 22, 2013, 09:29:50 AM
Nothing to forgive, I was simply curious.  I posted due to the question being asked, and I responded in what I thought was a reasonable way.
Title: Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
Post by: Amalgafiend on May 29, 2013, 01:43:19 PM
What was the original subject again...?