# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: randall_55 on October 26, 2011, 07:32:48 AM

Title: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: randall_55 on October 26, 2011, 07:32:48 AM
Q: "How can a compass work on a Flat Earth?"

A: In the dark energy model, the magnetic field is generated in the same fashion as the RE (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/Persistenxe/MAGNETIC_11.jpg (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/Persistenxe/MAGNETIC_11.jpg)). The magnetic south pole is near the geographic north pole, while the magnetic north pole is on the underside of the Earth. The ice wall is not the south pole, but acts as it, as it is the furthest from the center of the earth that you can follow the magnetic field. The field is vertical in this area, accounting for the aurora australis.

^^Found in FAQ section

One problem with this is that a compass does not simply point towards the magnetic south pole of the earth. The magnetic needle in the compass attempts to orient itself along the magnetic field lines produced by the earth's magnetic field. On a round earth, these field lines are very close to parallel to the surface along almost the entire surface of the earth, which is why compasses work on our round earth. (http://www.physics.sjsu.edu/becker/physics51/images/28_03_Earth_magnetic_field.jpg (http://www.physics.sjsu.edu/becker/physics51/images/28_03_Earth_magnetic_field.jpg)) The only place they fail is very close to the magnetic north and magnetic south poles. At these points, the magnetic needle will attempt to orient itself vertically due to the field lines entering/exiting the earth's crust. The field lines are not drawn in the diagram in the FAQ section, but the field lines of a bar magnet (just like the one proposed in this FAQ) are well known. The field lines on a flat earth would be vertical across the entire surface of the earth, with the exception of possibly a very small area near the magnetic south pole (geographic north). So according to the FE model, my compass should be attempting to orient itself vertically (essentially, not working) almost everywhere on the earth's surface (definitely everywhere where people live). This clearly does not happen (personally verified).

I was just wondering if any FE'ers had a plausible explanation as to why my compass is pointing north right now.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 26, 2011, 07:35:26 AM
Your explanation doesn't make much sense. Your compass would attempt to orient itself diagonally, pointing slightly down and towards the pole. The same happens on RE.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: randall_55 on October 26, 2011, 07:47:22 AM
No it would not, a compass does not point diagonally down towards the north pole on a RE. It's simple magnetics. The magnetic needle in a compass orients itself along the path of least magnetic reluctance (parallel to the magnetic field, along the magnetic field lines). At the equator of a RE, this is perfectly parallel to the surface (not diagonally down). Along the rest of the earth, it is so close to parallel to the surface, a human cannot notice the difference. Very near the poles of a RE (where the field lines begin to become perpendicular to the surface of the earth) you will begin to notice the compass needle attempt to become vertical. If you look at the diagram, it makes perfect sense.

I drew the field lines on the FE diagram for you: http://postimage.org/image/q3z60bgv3/ (http://postimage.org/image/q3z60bgv3/)
I even made the magnet from the diagram shorter for you, which actually only helps the FE theory.

You can clearly see how a compass needle should be trying to orient itself vertically on the FE model along the magnetic field line (path of least reluctance).

Anyone on this forum with a proper understanding of magnetics can verify that this is correct.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 26, 2011, 08:29:51 AM
FE's magnetic north pole is not below the Earth's centre.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: randall_55 on October 26, 2011, 08:39:13 AM
"The magnetic south pole is near the geographic north pole, while the magnetic north pole is on the underside of the Earth."
^^ Taken from your FAQ section.

FE's magnetic north pole is not below the Earth's centre.

Where is it located then? I will redraw the diagram for you if you tell me where the magnetic poles of a flat earth are.

I am yet to see a magnetic model of a FE that explains how my compass is working right now. I have tried to think of possibilities on my own, and cannot come up with any way this is possible without resorting to a RE model.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 27, 2011, 03:30:56 AM
It would be good if someone could produce a magnet that acts in the way that flat earther's claim.  In other words, a magnetic disk in which the north pole is in the center and the south pole is around the outer perimeter.  I suppose you could do this with multiple magnets, gluing them in a circular manner, and then filling in the gaps between the magnets with a non magnetic substance.  But, this has never been suggested as the way the earth is physically constructed.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Ski on October 27, 2011, 04:51:53 PM
The  is not about the perimeter. The magnetic "pole" experienced at the rim is simply where the field lines are substantially vertical.

The reason the drawing provided fails to depict the correct orientation of field lines is that the magnet depicted is not in the earth but all the way through it.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: randall_55 on October 28, 2011, 01:34:27 PM
Yes you are correct in that the field lines would be substantially vertical at the perimeter.

However there is no way to orient a magnet on a flat earth that provides parallel field lines (by this I mean parallel to the earth's surface) along the majority of the surface of the earth, all pointing roughly north geographically, which is what is required for a compass to work.

If you propose that there is, I must not be correctly understanding what you are describing. If you could provide a drawing demonstrating a magnet that could produce parallel field lines along the majority of the surface of a flat earth, all pointing roughly north geographically, I would be interested to see it.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Ski on October 28, 2011, 01:57:36 PM
However there is no way to orient a magnet on a flat earth that provides parallel field lines (by this I mean parallel to the earth's surface) along the majority of the surface of the earth, all pointing roughly north geographically, which is what is required for a compass to work.
The field lines are not measured as parallel to the earth's surface except at a very narrow band. The drawing you presented for RE here (http://www.physics.sjsu.edu/becker/physics51/images/28_03_Earth_magnetic_field.jpg) is not a representation of the earth's true magnetic inclination.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: El Cid on October 28, 2011, 09:21:59 PM
Don't wait for an FE'er to explain it, they're just making it up anyway.

Here's mine:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2rym0ev.png)

Magnetism is basically the spin that an electron has.  Each atom can be aligned one way or another, but they will always point in one direction or the other.  You can't cut a magnet in half and get one north pole and one south pole.

This is possible.  The red dot is the Magnetic North Pole, and the white line is Magnetic South.  However, this is highly unlikely to exist.  There is no explanation for this.  In RET, magnetic fields are caused by convectional currents in the mantle, but there is no such justification for FET; in fact, it's unclear what's underground anyway (see:  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=51545.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=51545.0)).  Simply saying "there are convectional currents" is impossible, because they would all have to be aligned towards the Magnetic North Pole, which can't work, because it relies on buoyancy, and the direction being faced up; here it would have to be faced sideways.  See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convection)
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Ski on October 29, 2011, 02:28:13 AM
I cannot believe how many baseless assumptions you just made, but we'll hit a few.

First, we don't know exactly what is in the earth's core whether it be flat or a globe. Really, we have no clue.
Second, I haven't seen any convection currents in a bar magnet, but perhaps you have. Clearly, a convective dynamo is not required to produce a magnetic field.
Third, Herndon convincingly shows how convection is impossible in a globe's mantle and core -- except perhaps in the very small region of a molten inner-core at the very center of a globe. Wholly insufficient to cause any "dynamo" effect as posited by mainstream science.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 29, 2011, 06:14:10 AM
El Cid said "conventional current", not "convection current".  I think he was referring to the normal alignment of flux lines around a magnet, but I do not want to put word in Cid's mouth.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: El Cid on October 29, 2011, 10:50:39 AM
I cannot believe how many baseless assumptions you just made, but we'll hit a few.

First, we don't know exactly what is in the earth's core whether it be flat or a globe. Really, we have no clue.
Second, I haven't seen any convection currents in a bar magnet, but perhaps you have. Clearly, a convective dynamo is not required to produce a magnetic field.
Third, Herndon convincingly shows how convection is impossible in a globe's mantle and core -- except perhaps in the very small region of a molten inner-core at the very center of a globe. Wholly insufficient to cause any "dynamo" effect as posited by mainstream science.
First, we aren't completely sure, but it is not accurate at all to say that we have no clue.  Seismic waves can't go through a solid core, so using measurements from these, we can tell that there is something solid down there, and that it is, predictably, a sphere.

Second, there are no convection currents in a bar magnet, because it is made of magnetic material whose atoms are aligned easily.  This is not the same for the Earth.  Here is an explanation of convection:

As magma falls to the core of the Earth, it is heated up (because it's hotter down there).  You may have heard that "heat rises."  This is because heat is the speed of particles.  When they're faster, they sort of push outwards and begin to take up more space, making the magma less dense (because density is how packed together something is; if the same amount of mass is in more space, it is less dense).  We know that buoyancy (what makes things float) is caused when something less dense is in something more dense.  Wood is less dense than water, so it floats.  Really small rocks, like in Monty Python, will never float, despite being light, because things only float if they're less dense.  So when the magma becomes less dense, it rises.  Then it cools, and falls again, repeating the cycle.

The magnetic field is caused because the outer core is molten iron (inner core is solid, which is what I've been talking about) which is highly conductive to electricity.  Electric fields also create magnetic fields.  Magnetic fields resist the motion of the fluid, which is why convectional currents are needed to keep it going.

The rotation of the Earth causes a north-south alignment of the field.

Third, let me see this?  Convection is completely possible in the mantle; so long as it's fluid, it will be affected by convectional currents, just like water in a pot on a heat source.

(http://studycasts.wikispaces.com/file/view/convection.jpg/136365463/convection.jpg)

Hence, heat rises.  I don't see how this couldn't happen in the mantle; in fact, I don't think the outer core is wide enough for this to occur en masse, like you suggest.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Ski on October 29, 2011, 12:15:57 PM
I am well familiar with both dynamos and convection. I did not come about my convictions by happenstance. I am telling you that Herndon has fairly well destroyed the theory of mantle convection. There is no hope for it on your globe. It is highly interesting reading, if you care to find it.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: El Cid on October 29, 2011, 12:22:46 PM
I am well familiar with both dynamos and convection. I did not come about my convictions by happenstance. I am telling you that Herdon has fairly well destroyed the theory of mantle convection. There is no hope for it on your globe. It is highly interesting reading, if you care to find it.
Is it Herdon or Herndon?  I can't find any reference to either on this forum besides right here, and I can't seem to find anything on Google.
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: Ski on October 29, 2011, 12:40:07 PM
Herndon. I will fix my typo in the last post.

Here is a good starting point, if you would like one:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0707.2850
http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.4509
Title: Re: A Compass Won't Work According to FE theory
Post by: El Cid on October 29, 2011, 12:42:28 PM
Herndon. I will fix my typo in the last post.
I still have no idea where this argument is.