The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Theodolite on October 24, 2011, 11:02:01 PM

Title: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 24, 2011, 11:02:01 PM
The human eye is a flawless tool, which is only operated by open minded scientific people.

Here are some examples of how amazing the human eye is at discerning with extreme accuracy the orientation of objects.

(http://media.uniklinik-freiburg.de/aug/homede/mit/bach/mdia/rotsnake2.gif)

The above image does not contain any motion
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Ski on October 24, 2011, 11:20:24 PM
What tool do you suggest? How far are you willing to take this Berkleyan idea? If I cannot trust my eyes, can I trust the instruments I use? After all, people have hallucinated. Perhaps astronauts are only hallucinating the earth's curvature? Some people cannot distinguish colour. Perhaps colour does not truly exist.
For that matter should I trust my reason? People's minds are highly unstable. Food and other drugs clearly influence it's ability to reason. How then can I rely on such an easily malleable tool?

No. This cannot stand. Whatever truth may be divined must be divined using the tools we are given to the best of our ability lest we delve into pure sophism.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 25, 2011, 12:39:52 PM
(http://media.uniklinik-freiburg.de/aug/homede/mit/bach/mdia/rotsnake2.gif)

The above image does not contain any motion
That is correct, though I admit I don't see what you're getting at.

This image doesn't contain any motion either:
(http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/85054-real_apple_i_hungry.jpg)

Does it tell us anything about the shape of the Earth?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: barrog on October 25, 2011, 01:53:43 PM
But when I look at the apple it doesn't look like it is moveing like the OP pic. I think the point is the human eye is easily tricked and not to be relied on for the arguement it looks flat therefore it is.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Tausami on October 25, 2011, 02:21:54 PM
Because the apparent motion of the OP's image changes based on where my eyes are, it is either an optical illusion or expensive eye-tracking equipment was added to my computer when I wasn't looking. Thus, I can logically assume that the it a stationary image.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: EmperorZhark on October 25, 2011, 03:21:05 PM
There, you see: reason made you think that you couldn't rely solely on your eyes.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 25, 2011, 03:50:28 PM
The image in the op only moves because our eyes are extremely accurate.

The human eye can detect a single photon in a dark room (http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Quantum/see_a_photon.html).
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: barrog on October 25, 2011, 05:42:21 PM
The word you are looking for is sensitive not accurate. Acordeing to the link our eye is sensitive enough to see a single photon but not very likely.
A quote from the article "neural filters only allow a signal to pass to the brain to trigger a conscious response when at least about five to nine arrive within less than 100 ms."
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 25, 2011, 06:54:05 PM
The image in the op only moves because our eyes are extremely accurate.

The human eye can detect a single photon in a dark room (http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Quantum/see_a_photon.html).

Incorrectly identifying a stationary object is not an indicator of accuracy.

This one requires reading, understanding, and following written instructions.  Hopefully accomplishing this test isnt limited to RE'rs

Swirling illusion (http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/mot_adaptSpiral/index.html)
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: jraffield1 on October 25, 2011, 09:38:23 PM
Because the apparent motion of the OP's image changes based on where my eyes are, it is either an optical illusion or expensive eye-tracking equipment was added to my computer when I wasn't looking. Thus, I can logically assume that the it a stationary image.

What proof do you have that the conspiracy hasn't modified your computer in this way?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 26, 2011, 06:18:53 AM
I assumed that we are all aware that this illusion works on a piece of paper
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 26, 2011, 08:48:51 AM
The image in the op only moves because our eyes are extremely accurate.

The human eye can detect a single photon in a dark room (http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Quantum/see_a_photon.html).

Incorrectly identifying a stationary object is not an indicator of accuracy.

Yes it is. The eye is able to receive input from hundreds of different sources at once and accurately report them to the brain. While you are looking at one thing, the eye is capturing information from other things. The brain sees that the little spots are misaligned and adjusts it for you. The image wouldn't move if our eyes weren't accurate and had such amazing resolving power.

No camera can match the human eye. It is the most advanced imaging tool on earth.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: jraffield1 on October 26, 2011, 10:03:09 AM
The image in the op only moves because our eyes are extremely accurate.

The human eye can detect a single photon in a dark room (http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Quantum/see_a_photon.html).

Incorrectly identifying a stationary object is not an indicator of accuracy.

Yes it is. The eye is able to receive input from hundreds of different sources at once and accurately report them to the brain. While you are looking at one thing, the eye is capturing information from other things. The brain sees that the little spots are misaligned and adjusts it for you. The image wouldn't move if our eyes weren't accurate and had such amazing resolving power.

No camera can match the human eye. It is the most advanced imaging tool on earth.

A person looking at the picture will tell you that it looks like it is moving. A camera with imaging software will tell you that the picture definitely not moving. If the human eye is so very advanced, why is it fooled by this simple illusion whereas a camera is not?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 26, 2011, 08:41:49 PM
You took the words out of my mouth, also, if you wish to debate this topic, please take the time to print the image and you will see that the illusion persists.  It points out basic flaws in the human eye, as does the 2nd link.  I can provide dozens more, all of which point out how easily fooled the human eye is.

This question for for FE'rs (well, people who present themselves as believing in a FE)

If you were standing in a soccer field, and there were 2 stakes in the ground 40 feet apart, and you were standing between them.  Do you think you could place a 3rd stake in line between the first 2 stakes using your human eye, lining yourself up with them...

(this is first week surveying, for those that are keeping score at home)
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: EmperorZhark on October 27, 2011, 12:01:47 PM

No camera can match the human eye. It is the most advanced imaging tool on earth.

What about the zoom function?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 27, 2011, 12:48:37 PM
But when I look at the apple it doesn't look like it is moveing like the OP pic.
What are you talking about? The OP's pic isn't moving. Even the OP himself confirms it.

The above image does not contain any motion
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: barrog on October 27, 2011, 05:33:34 PM
I did not say it was moving. I said it looked like it was moving.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 27, 2011, 07:12:03 PM
But it doesn't.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: barrog on October 27, 2011, 07:27:13 PM
Yes, that is why it is called a illusion.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 27, 2011, 11:52:19 PM
be nice barrog, the illusion requires an IQ over 50 to comprehend, and describe said comrehension
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 28, 2011, 12:28:42 AM
be nice barrog, the illusion requires an IQ over 50 to comprehend, and describe said comrehension

Thork rides the short bus to forum every day.  We all need to show him patience and understanding.  He is not different from you or I, he is special.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Particle Person on October 28, 2011, 12:43:24 AM
be nice barrog, the illusion requires an IQ over 50 to comprehend, and describe said comrehension

be nice barrog, the illusion requires an IQ over 50 to comprehend, and describe said comrehension

Thork rides the short bus to forum every day.  We all need to show him patience and understanding.  He is not different from you or I, he is special.

Hopefully you guys are just very subtle, and the irony is intentional.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 28, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
My irony is almost always intentional, I can assure you.  Unless, of course, I do not understand it.  In that case, it may be unintentional, but either way, the irony gets across.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 28, 2011, 12:56:35 AM
Yes, that is why it is called a illusion.
You seem to be missing my point. What I've been trying to say, and I believe I was making myself clear, is that I see no "illusion" whatsoever in this picture. It's perfectly still, no matter how long I stare at it, or squint my eyes. What is it that I'm supposed to see?

be nice barrog, the illusion requires an IQ over 50 to comprehend, and describe said comrehension
Ad hominem, you think you're better than I am... (http://)
Also, I can provide evidence of my IQ being higher than 50, if you wish. I'm not even going to expect the credentials you've claimed you have in return! Well, I am going to expect them, but I won't explicitly demand them.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: trig on October 28, 2011, 02:24:06 AM
Yes, that is why it is called a illusion.
You seem to be missing my point. What I've been trying to say, and I believe I was making myself clear, is that I see no "illusion" whatsoever in this picture. It's perfectly still, no matter how long I stare at it, or squint my eyes. What is it that I'm supposed to see?

Nice trolling. Or maybe you are in desperate need of glasses, since the illusion stops when the colored blocks are seen blurred.

Anyway, just to give you the benefit of the doubt, try looking at the picture at different distances, always having all of the picture on sight. Some 20 cm high at arms length should be good enough.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: barrog on October 28, 2011, 06:08:33 AM
You seem to be missing my point. What I've been trying to say, and I believe I was making myself clear, is that I see no "illusion" whatsoever in this picture. It's perfectly still, no matter how long I stare at it, or squint my eyes. What is it that I'm supposed to see?

Ahh I see. You may have been clear but it was lost on me. Maybe you are color blind? I ask this because seeing the color is nesscery for it to work. Also if I stare it will not work. I have to move my eyes around the pic a bit to make the illusion work. It should look like the color wheels are turning.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 28, 2011, 09:37:30 AM
Or maybe you are in desperate need of glasses, since the illusion stops when the colored blocks are seen blurred.
I do wear glasses. I've had my prescription checked recently. With glasses on, my eyesight is "20/20", as you Americans would describe it.

Ahh I see. You may have been clear but it was lost on me. Maybe you are color blind? I ask this because seeing the color is nesscery for it to work. Also if I stare it will not work. I have to move my eyes around the pic a bit to make the illusion work. It should look like the color wheels are turning.
I'm not colour-blind to the best of my knowledge. I can see yellow, blue and black elements in these circles. If there are any others, then I'm likely colour-blind.

I've spent too much time entirely trying to make this work now, and it just doesn't. I'm sorry that I was aggressive about this - I suspected Theodolite is just trolling as usual.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: EmperorZhark on October 28, 2011, 09:42:31 AM
It doesn't work for you so Theodolite is trolling?

Intersting view...
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on October 28, 2011, 09:43:11 AM
Or maybe you are in desperate need of glasses, since the illusion stops when the colored blocks are seen blurred.
I do wear glasses. I've had my prescription checked recently. With glasses on, my eyesight is "20/20", as you Americans would describe it.

Ahh I see. You may have been clear but it was lost on me. Maybe you are color blind? I ask this because seeing the color is nesscery for it to work. Also if I stare it will not work. I have to move my eyes around the pic a bit to make the illusion work. It should look like the color wheels are turning.
I'm not colour-blind to the best of my knowledge. I can see yellow, blue and black elements in these circles. If there are any others, then I'm likely colour-blind.

I've spent too much time entirely trying to make this work now, and it just doesn't. I'm sorry that I was aggressive about this - I suspected Theodolite is just trolling as usual.
You are likely looking at it from too far away.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 28, 2011, 10:27:53 AM
Or maybe you are in desperate need of glasses, since the illusion stops when the colored blocks are seen blurred.
I do wear glasses. I've had my prescription checked recently. With glasses on, my eyesight is "20/20", as you Americans would describe it.

Ahh I see. You may have been clear but it was lost on me. Maybe you are color blind? I ask this because seeing the color is nesscery for it to work. Also if I stare it will not work. I have to move my eyes around the pic a bit to make the illusion work. It should look like the color wheels are turning.
I'm not colour-blind to the best of my knowledge. I can see yellow, blue and black elements in these circles. If there are any others, then I'm likely colour-blind.

I've spent too much time entirely trying to make this work now, and it just doesn't. I'm sorry that I was aggressive about this - I suspected Theodolite is just trolling as usual.

I understand now.  I am so used to people on here pretending to not understand something, but you truly dont see the illusion.  Try the link, there is another illusion there.

And I'm not trolling, I provided significant evidence that zetecism is flawed due to the human eye being unreliable.

Also, no one has answered my question about putting stakes in line
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 28, 2011, 12:34:37 PM
It doesn't work for you so Theodolite is trolling?
No. Like I said, I suspected that he was trolling. Now that others have confirmed that this picture is an illusion, I understand his point, even though I can't see it myself. Nonetheless, it's interesting that you would try to misinterpret my words like this.

Try the link, there is another illusion there.
Hmm, that kind of works, yeah.

And I'm not trolling, I provided significant evidence that zetecism is flawed due to the human eye being unreliable.
Oh, I absolutely agree. What we see with our eyes can serve as evidence, but not proof.

Also, no one has answered my question about putting stakes in line
Depends on what kind of precision you're expecting. I could probably make a good try, but it's likely to be imperfect.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 28, 2011, 02:10:38 PM
It doesn't work for you so Theodolite is trolling?
No. Like I said, I suspected that he was trolling. Now that others have confirmed that this picture is an illusion, I understand his point, even though I can't see it myself. Nonetheless, it's interesting that you would try to misinterpret my words like this.

Try the link, there is another illusion there.
Hmm, that kind of works, yeah.

And I'm not trolling, I provided significant evidence that zetecism is flawed due to the human eye being unreliable.
Oh, I absolutely agree. What we see with our eyes can serve as evidence, but not proof.

Also, no one has answered my question about putting stakes in line
Depends on what kind of precision you're expecting. I could probably make a good try, but it's likely to be imperfect.

Definitely, in fact the error is typically around 4 times greater then the average person imagines, due to people incorrectly believing/imagining that their field of view is 180 degrees
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 28, 2011, 03:45:16 PM
Hmm, yes. I'd probably intuitively position myself behind the stakes, wouldn't I?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 31, 2011, 03:34:00 PM
That is true, in fact there are no examples that I can think of where the human eye is the best tool to determine anything.  It is a useful tool for us, you can think of it as being similar as the human hands ability to freedraw a straight line, it works, kinda, but is definitely not the best way to do it.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: PizzaPlanet on October 31, 2011, 03:36:16 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on October 31, 2011, 04:53:52 PM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on October 31, 2011, 07:47:14 PM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Well, that is the opposite of reality, but most unscientific beliefs are
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on November 01, 2011, 08:08:41 AM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Well, that is the opposite of reality, but most unscientific beliefs are
What tool would you choose to identify a Stop sign?  A traffic light?  The car next to you?  An appropriate mate (at first)?  Food?  Your House?  Street signs?  A dog?  A crayon?  A computer mouse?  A soda?  A street light?  A circular object?  A fire hydrant?  Fire?  The sky?  The ground?  the computer you work on?  Words?  The colour blue?  The post button?

That's right, almost everything in your everyday experience is identified by sight.

Its not the most conclusive tool or the most accurate, but its certainly the best; why else would it be so well and oft used?  To state otherwise is to ignore the truth to simply try to win an internet argument.

What tool can you take away that will do the most damage in the identification of the vast majority of everyday objects? 
Smell?  Doubtful.  Taste?  I don't go around licking stop signs.  Touch?  Better hope whatever information presented is also presented in a textured manner.  Hearing?  Second place surely, unless you happen to be daredevil.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on November 01, 2011, 08:22:25 AM
the eye is useful for identifying known objects that are in the center of your field of view.  That has nothing to do with this conversation.

Identifying objects is not the same as determining distances and orientations
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on November 01, 2011, 08:25:03 AM
That is true, in fact there are no examples that I can think of where the human eye is the best tool to determine anything.
This is its relevance.  You said nonsense.  Its the best tool for identifying known objects or unknown objects in your field of view. 
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: General Disarray on November 01, 2011, 09:08:51 AM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Isn't your theory based mostly around explaining why the earth doesn't look flat in many situations?
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on November 01, 2011, 01:27:55 PM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Isn't your theory based mostly around explaining why the earth doesn't look flat in many situations?
My theory is based off of reality.

Yes the earth doesn't look flat in many instances.  This does not make the human eye any less amazing or adept at identification.

Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: Theodolite on November 01, 2011, 05:34:49 PM
That is true, in fact there are no examples that I can think of where the human eye is the best tool to determine anything.
This is its relevance.  You said nonsense.  Its the best tool for identifying known objects or unknown objects in your field of view.

As I said, this is your opinion.  Im pretty sure a robot eye connected to google can identify unknown objects faster than a human can identify objects that are unknown to it
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: General Disarray on November 01, 2011, 06:13:36 PM
The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Isn't your theory based mostly around explaining why the earth doesn't look flat in many situations?
My theory is based off of reality.

Yes the earth doesn't look flat in many instances.  This does not make the human eye any less amazing or adept at identification.

It does, however, make it not the right tool to determine the overall shape of the earth.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on November 01, 2011, 07:28:11 PM
That is true, in fact there are no examples that I can think of where the human eye is the best tool to determine anything.
This is its relevance.  You said nonsense.  Its the best tool for identifying known objects or unknown objects in your field of view.

As I said, this is your opinion.  Im pretty sure a robot eye connected to google can identify unknown objects faster than a human can identify objects that are unknown to it
Not if you want to make immediate use of that data.  Which almost every time you do.

The human eye is clearly the best tool for identifying almost everything in everyday experience.

Isn't your theory based mostly around explaining why the earth doesn't look flat in many situations?
My theory is based off of reality.

Yes the earth doesn't look flat in many instances.  This does not make the human eye any less amazing or adept at identification.

It does, however, make it not the right tool to determine the overall shape of the earth.
Couldn't agree more.  In fact, its the cause of many to proclaim with faith in Columbus above: "I can see the curvature of the Earth at the BEACH!"
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: General Disarray on November 01, 2011, 11:20:45 PM
You should tell that to the FE'ers who proclaim that "the earth must be flat because it looks flat".
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: John Davis on November 02, 2011, 06:37:18 AM
You should tell that to the FE'ers who proclaim that "the earth must be flat because it looks flat".
I do when I see it.  However, for the most part FE'ers will say "The earth looks flat, so theres no reason to believe it is round"
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: General Disarray on November 02, 2011, 09:19:39 AM
Yes, that is when their willful ignorance of all evidence to the contrary comes into play. What really bothers me is when they start inventing fantasies such as:


to construct a fantasy world in which the earth could be flat.
Title: Re: The Human Eye is definitely the right tool to determine the shape of the earth
Post by: LinearPlane on November 03, 2011, 08:12:05 AM
Yes, that is when their willful ignorance of all evidence to the contrary comes into play. What really bothers me is when they start inventing fantasies such as:

  • The Universal Accelerator
  • Bendy Light
  • "Aetheric Eddification"
  • Tom Bishop's version of perspective
  • The conspiracy
  • Luminescent moon/sun life
  • The anti-moon
  • The sub-moon
  • The "greater ice wall" (or whatever contains the air)
  • Celestial gears
  • Whatever causes the celestial bodies to remain above the earth and moving as they do
  • Dinosaurs building boats to cross the oceans
  • "Stratelites" which produce GPS signals

to construct a fantasy world in which the earth could be flat.

It's called the create a new answer to an unanswerable question. That's the M.O. of the FES.