The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: troy2000 on September 16, 2006, 03:27:23 PM

Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: troy2000 on September 16, 2006, 03:27:23 PM
Round Earth:  99.9% of all people believe that Earth is round.  I am well aware that this does not make it so, but it has been proven and is referred to as a fact.  I do not observe both theories narrow mindedly.  If  someone show me irrefutable proof for a theory, then I will accept it as fact.  Serveral experiments which you can do yourself are:

(1):  Next time you are on a commercial airline flight, observe the curvature of the horizon.  Some people say that this is not visible, but at a high altitude it can be seen clearly.  The reason why some people can see it and some can't, is because some people's eyes are more sensitive to VERY slight curvature than others.

(2):  Watch a ship as it slowly appears to sink below the horizon.  On a flat Earth this would not happen.



(3):  Trails from planes are always curved from horizon to horizon.  If the Earth were flat, this would not happen.



(4):  Look up at this sky and clouds.  You will get the impression of a dome.



  Flat Earth:

(1):  Look at the ground and horizon, it looks quite flat.

(2):  Observe ships as they appear to sink below the horizon, this is nothing more than an illusion created by the atmosphere.

(3):  Look at the moon with a telescope.  It appears as a two dimensional disc.

(4):  Explain gravity.  The Earth is constantly accellerating, this presses down on everything on the surface.

If you compare these pieces of evidence, you will find that the Round Earth theory (or fact, as it must therefore be called) is clearly the winner.  What some people also are not aware of is that the Earth is not a perfect sphere, so it cannot really be called "Round".
Title: Re: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: James on September 16, 2006, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: "troy2000"
Round Earth:  99.9% of all people believe that Earth is round.  I am well aware that this does not make it so, but it has been proven and is referred to as a fact.  I do not observe both theories narrow mindedly.  If  someone show me irrefutable proof for a theory, then I will accept it as fact.


It's not like the two theories are treated equally in the public eye. An insidous, malevolent conspiracy dating back hundreds of years constantly spreads Round Earth propaganda through all outlets of government, media and academia.

Quote from: "troy2000"

(1):  Next time you are on a commercial airline flight, observe the curvature of the horizon.  Some people say that this is not visible, but at a high altitude it can be seen clearly.  The reason why some people can see it and some can't, is because some people's eyes are more sensitive to VERY slight curvature than others.


Tried and tested. My eyes work absolutely fine, and last time I was on a transatlantic flight I was SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR CURVATURE. I saw nothing but a flat horizon. We've got more than my word though, forum member WisconsinAmmo actually filmed from the window of a flight, and guess what? Flat.

Quote from: "troy2000"
(2):  Watch a ship as it slowly appears to sink below the horizon.  On a flat Earth this would not happen.


Have you ever personally witnessed this? Have you ever, ACTUALLY, IN TOTAL HONESTY, seen this happen? Have you seen it happen more than once? I've seen objects appear to get smaller on the horizon, it's called perspective. I've seen objects obscured at the bottom by waves. I've never seen it happen consistently.


Quote from: "troy2000"

(3):  Trails from planes are always curved from horizon to horizon.  If the Earth were flat, this would not happen.


They aren't always curved, and when they are it's because the path of the plane is actually a non-straight line.

Quote from: "troy2000"

(4): Look up at this sky and clouds. You will get the impression of a dome.



No you don't. Even if you did, science isn't based on "impressions".
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: britishgent on September 16, 2006, 03:38:17 PM
wel tbh ive never seen the curvature also on a FE planes would just fly curved paths as they rise from the ground go over places then fall 2 land somewher: making a curve. Also i dot understand how the sky appearing as a dome proves (or even emplies) that the earth is round sorry if im being dumb it just doesnt make sense 2 me
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: troy2000 on September 16, 2006, 03:48:24 PM
Yes, I have observed ship sinking below the horizon many times.  It is most definitely not an illusion.  I have sometimes seen extremely large ship sink and completely disappear.

Something else which also interests me is why in almost every thread. people are shouting "Conspiracy, Conspiracy!".  But there is absolutely no reason to even post this, when there is no motive, meaning that no evidence what-so-ever exists to prove it.

These sorts of questions have been asked constantly, and nobody has been able to give an intelligent answer which does not rely on other un-provable factors.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: James on September 16, 2006, 03:54:16 PM
Quote from: "troy2000"
Yes, I have observed ship sinking below the horizon many times.  It is most definitely not an illusion.  I have sometimes seen extremely large ship sink and completely disappear.


Large objects at sea often appear to sink simply because of probability and the uneveness of the ocean. Consider this: there are many local peaks and troughs on the ocean's surface. The further out an object is, the higher the likelyhood that a peak of significant size will obscure the lower part of the object. At the same time, natural perspective makes the object in question appear to shrink, adding to the impression of "sinking". Bear this in mind and observe the phenomenom again - there is a Flat Earth explanation.

Quote from: "troy2000"

Something else which also interests me is why in almost every thread. people are shouting "Conspiracy, Conspiracy!".  But there is absolutely no reason to even post this, when there is no motive, meaning that no evidence what-so-ever exists to prove it.

These sorts of questions have been asked constantly, and nobody has been able to give an intelligent answer which does not rely on other un-provable factors.


There is a motive. Use the site's search function and use the terms "conspiracy" "ice wall" or "reckon" (interestingly I've found I'm one of the few people to have used this word on the site, and one of the posts in which I use the word is the one where I explain, at length, possible conspiracy motives).
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 03:56:22 PM
RE:

1.  Like Dog said, the curvature can not be seen from a plane.  Your RE buddies already decided that this was the case.

2.  This experiment has a FE explanation so it really doesn't count as  evidence for a RE.

3.  Curved contrails, like these?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Contrails.jpg)
Wait!  Where is the curvature?!?

4.  Clouds are another bad example:

(http://www.k12.wa.us/EdTech/Athena/curric/weather/pricloud/cumulus.jpg)

FE:
1.  True.
2.  See #2 above.
3.  Ok.
4.  Actually can be verified by experiment.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: irishpeter on September 16, 2006, 04:04:00 PM
I have seen ships sink below the horizon thousands of times (literally). This occurs on completely calm days to the exact same degree as on rough days with 3 metre seas. The probability explanation does not hold up.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Bugman on September 16, 2006, 04:28:18 PM
Quote from: "troy2000"
Yes, I have observed ship sinking below the horizon many times.  It is most definitely not an illusion.  I have sometimes seen extremely large ship sink and completely disappear.

Something else which also interests me is why in almost every thread. people are shouting "Conspiracy, Conspiracy!".  But there is absolutely no reason to even post this, when there is no motive, meaning that no evidence what-so-ever exists to prove it.

These sorts of questions have been asked constantly, and nobody has been able to give an intelligent answer which does not rely on other un-provable factors.


The motive is irrelevant. The argument for a conspiracy is what is philosophically known as a deductively valid argument, meaning if the premises are true, then the conclusion cannot be false. Therefore, all you have to do is prove the premise, and the conclusion takes care of itself.

As a result, people can happily spend time looking for scientific flat earth proof, knowing that if they find any, it by simple logical process proves the presence of a conspiracy, without any need for determining a mens rea.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 04:57:52 PM
you fucking serious?

1)Look at the top of a disk from directly above it (A 90 degree angle).
2)Then rotate it so you're looking at the top from a 45 degree angle.
3)Then rotate it to a 0 degree angle.

1)It's a circle
2)It's an oval
3)It's a rectangle

Now, how can we have pictures of the earth from different angles and they all look like circles?



Also, how would you be able to fly under the radar on a flat earth?
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: dysfunction on September 16, 2006, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
RE:

1.  Like Dog said, the curvature can not be seen from a plane.  Your RE buddies already decided that this was the case.

2.  This experiment has a FE explanation so it really doesn't count as  evidence for a RE.

3.  Curved contrails, like these?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Contrails.jpg)
Wait!  Where is the curvature?!?

4.  Clouds are another bad example:

(http://www.k12.wa.us/EdTech/Athena/curric/weather/pricloud/cumulus.jpg)

FE:
1.  True.
2.  See #2 above.
3.  Ok.
4.  Actually can be verified by experiment.


The first pic doesn't show the horizon, as for the second pic, I don't know where you're looking, but the curvature is obvious.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 05:18:21 PM
First pic is to show the curvature of the contrails.  
Second pic is to show the 'dome' of the earth.

I see no curvature in the contrails and I get no impression of a dome.
Title: Re: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: killer on September 16, 2006, 06:15:11 PM
Flat Earth:

(1):  Look at the ground and horizon, it looks quite flat.

(2):  Observe ships as they appear to sink below the horizon, this is nothing more than an illusion created by the atmosphere.

(3):  Look at the moon with a telescope.  It appears as a two dimensional disc.

(4):  Explain gravity.  The Earth is constantly accellerating, this presses down on everything on the surface.

If you compare these pieces of evidence, you will find that the Round Earth theory (or fact, as it must therefore be called) is clearly the winner.  What some people also are not aware of is that the Earth is not a perfect sphere, so it cannot really be called "Round".[/quote]


ok, these arent facts at all, explain the pull of gravity from the north and south poles, explain why water runs differently in both hemispheres, explain how tides work... you guys should really study and look into what you are supporting before you have your mind set.  i'm not ragging or making fun, you just need set proof, and not something made up!
Title: Re: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 06:55:09 PM
I think this is hilarious!

Quote from: "killer"
explain why water runs differently in both hemispheres


Quote
you guys should really study and look into what you are supporting before you have your mind set.  i'm not ragging or making fun, you just need set proof, and not something made up!

Looks like you need to listen to your own advice!
Title: Re: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 07:05:44 PM
Quote from: "killer"
explain the pull of gravity from the north and south poles,  

There is no gravity on the FE so whatever you are trying to say with this is moot.  The force we feel is generated by the earth's constant 9.81m/s^2 acceleration upwards through space.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 08:03:01 PM
No gravity...
You mean that Halley and Newton and Einstein were just really lucky in their guesses?

And did the US and USSR fake their mortal hatred of each other (Which started the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as the executing of the Rosenburgs, the arms race, the Berlin Wall, the capture of Gary Powers, and the Cuban Missle Crisis) to keep the conspiracy a secret?

What about the millions of government employees that could leak the information? What about the people who thought it was round in the 1500s, or this picture (http://i9.tinypic.com/2dj9kj9.jpg) which was taken in 1962 by John Glenn, before the GUI was invented (and even if it was, there's no way it could've had that precision).

I'd be surprised if anybody changed their views. Humans are too stubborn to give up, even when everything's against them.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 08:12:58 PM
That's all been covered, numerous times.  As for this:
Quote
Also, how would you be able to fly under the radar on a flat earth?

Ground clutter at low angles, the same way it works on the RE.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 08:18:38 PM
Okay, can I see an answer?



How would a satellite phone or a line of site radio work on an FE?

Quote
Q: "What is the motive behind this conspiracy?"

A: The motive is unknown.

Q: "If you don't even have a possible motive, why do you say there is a conspiracy?"

A: Well it's quite simple really; if the earth is in fact flat, then the the governments must be lying when they say it isn't.

WTF?
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: "abcde"
Okay, can I see an answer?



How would a satellite phone or a line of site radio work on an FE?

The phone signal would not necessarily have to come from a satellite.  The radio would work the same way as the RE version.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 09:01:33 PM
I mean in the middle of nowhere.


And that doesn't answer the first question.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 09:39:30 PM
Quote from: "abcde"
I mean in the middle of nowhere.

My statement still stands.
Quote
And that doesn't answer the first question.

Refresh my memory.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Unimportant on September 16, 2006, 10:00:33 PM
Quote from: "abcde"
you fucking serious?

1)Look at the top of a disk from directly above it (A 90 degree angle).
2)Then rotate it so you're looking at the top from a 45 degree angle.
3)Then rotate it to a 0 degree angle.

1)It's a circle
2)It's an oval
3)It's a rectangle

Now, how can we have pictures of the earth from different angles and they all look like circles?

You're refering to pictures of earth from outer space.

Those pictures are fake.

It is very easy to make a fake picture look like a circle.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 10:09:22 PM
Quote
No gravity...
You mean that Halley and Newton and Einstein were just really lucky in their guesses?

And did the US and USSR fake their mortal hatred of each other (Which started the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as the executing of the Rosenburgs, the arms race, the Berlin Wall, the capture of Gary Powers, and the Cuban Missle Crisis) to keep the conspiracy a secret?

What about the millions of government employees that could leak the information? What about the people who thought it was round in the 1500s, or this picture which was taken in 1962 by John Glenn, before the GUI was invented (and even if it was, there's no way it could've had that precision).

I'd be surprised if anybody changed their views. Humans are too stubborn to give up, even when everything's against them

You said they'd already been answered.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 10:13:51 PM
That's all been done so many times before.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 10:16:47 PM
So can I see the answers?
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 10:30:12 PM
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 10:45:24 PM
I'm sorry, you need to be more specific, whenever I search for something it brings up every single thread.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 10:49:54 PM
Exactly.  That's how many times it's been covered.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 10:54:27 PM
Yeah, when you look up Newton and get Carbon-dating...
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: TheEngineer on September 16, 2006, 10:57:27 PM
Quote
And did the US and USSR fake their mortal hatred of each other (Which started the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as the executing of the Rosenburgs, the arms race, the Berlin Wall, the capture of Gary Powers, and the Cuban Missle Crisis) to keep the conspiracy a secret?

What about the millions of government employees that could leak the information? What about the people who thought it was round in the 1500s, or this picture which was taken in 1962 by John Glenn, before the GUI was invented (and even if it was, there's no way it could've had that precision).

These can be lumped under conspiracy/motive/cover up/NASA/governments.  Start there.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 16, 2006, 11:07:21 PM
Well, you start to doubt a conspiracy when nearly a billion people die in a cold war, or when the first microprocessor was invented in 1971 (and only has a 32 bit RAM), or when several million people know a secret and nobody reveals anything.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Unimportant on September 17, 2006, 12:11:31 AM
Quote from: "abcde"
or when several million people know a secret and nobody reveals anything.

No, several million people know a secret and the ones who reveal it are labled as crazy.

You think nobody has ever ran through the streets yelling "The earth is flat! Everything is a conspiracy!!" before?

A common misconception about the conspiracy is that it would have to be kept completely quiet. It doesn't. Everyone already "knows" the earth is flat (edit: I mean round), and it's going to take a lot more than a few "crazy" people to change their mind. The governments know this, which is why they haven't shut down this website. They know that it would be almost impossible to deprogram decades of misinformation, and don't see us as a threat.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: beast on September 17, 2006, 12:13:42 AM
lol, I think you meant to say

everybody already "knows" that the earth is round... ;)
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Unimportant on September 17, 2006, 12:15:53 AM
Haha yeah, you're right, that was a mistake.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: abcde on September 17, 2006, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: "Unimportant"
Quote from: "abcde"
or when several million people know a secret and nobody reveals anything.

No, several million people know a secret and the ones who reveal it are labled as crazy.

You think nobody has ever ran through the streets yelling "The earth is flat! Everything is a conspiracy!!" before?

Okay, you got me there.

But what motive does the government have for keeping an FE secret?
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: irishpeter on September 17, 2006, 01:49:29 PM
Don't go through this again!!

The FEers believe it is for money and power- Power because apparently it makes the politicians feel important if they deceive us, and money because apparently they steal all the money that goes into space programs and satellites.

This is actually ludicrous because if this is all a conspiracy, then all the governments are in it together (Since before the space program started, of course), and would have had to have spent trillions in creating the illusion they are divided, mainly in the "conspiracies" that were the two world wars, the Cold War etc.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: AmIRight on September 18, 2006, 06:26:29 AM
Let's see, ships DO disappear behind the horizon because they go downwards, so to say

Why does the earth look like a 2D disc when looked at? Does a ball look like a 2D disc when looked at, yes, they both do, is the ball a disc then? No, it isn't.

I remember there was a mathematic formula that showed how big an area is that you can see on a round object depending on haw far away from it you are, this works pretty well on earth too, the moon, and the other planets that are in our solar system. The only thing you need is their diameter, pii and you distance from the round object, can't remember how the formula was right now.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Unimportant on September 18, 2006, 06:30:53 AM
Quote from: "AmIRight"
Let's see, ships DO disappear behind the horizon because they go downwards, so to say

Or because the light bends upwards.
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: AmIRight on September 18, 2006, 06:40:58 AM
Quote from: "Unimportant"

Or because the light bends upwards.


Why would the light bend upwards when it doesn't change it's medium? And why would it bend upwards when the light is comming from there?
Title: Earth: Flat or Round
Post by: Unimportant on September 18, 2006, 06:45:59 AM
The density of the earth's atmosphere isn't constant, so light that travels any significant distance is constantly changing mediums, which would make possible the refraction necessary for the bottom-up obscuring people claim happens at sea.