The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: RoundEarthGuy on January 18, 2011, 01:52:47 PM

Title: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: RoundEarthGuy on January 18, 2011, 01:52:47 PM
And please, don't turn the argument around and accuse modern Science.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 18, 2011, 04:19:29 PM
I suppose that it depends on who's definition of zeteticism you use.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 18, 2011, 04:23:27 PM
Huh, what has modern science ever done for us? Apart from the aqueduct. And sanitation. And the roads. And irrigation... medicine... education... polio vaccinations... lasers... microchips... aircraft... the internet... funny how all that stuff works flawlessly... except when it proves the Earth is a sphere and then suddenly "nooo, thats a NASA microchip <hushed voice>you can't trust it...</hushed voice>".
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 18, 2011, 04:48:32 PM
Huh, what has modern science ever done for us? Apart from the aqueduct. And sanitation. And the roads. And irrigation... medicine... education... polio vaccinations... lasers... microchips... aircraft... the internet... funny how all that stuff works flawlessly...

All of that works flawlessly?
(http://www.opposingviews.com/attachments/0004/5203/hyena-laughing.jpg?1273078019)
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 18, 2011, 04:54:18 PM
All of that works flawlessly?
(http://www.opposingviews.com/attachments/0004/5203/hyena-laughing.jpg?1273078019)

Well, your post made it onto this board didn't it? :)

When was the last time you actually saw some of that stuff fail? I don't mean on TV or the net, cos that just proves that some of that stuff is working (the lasers, microchips and internet).
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Beorn on January 18, 2011, 04:55:40 PM
Are you saying that no plane ever crashed? All medicines work perfectly? Education teaches the truth (as far as we know)?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 18, 2011, 04:57:13 PM
Well, your post made it onto this board didn't it? :)

When was the last time you actually saw some of that stuff fail? I don't mean on TV or the net, cos that just proves that some of that stuff is working (the lasers, microchips and internet).

I'm a service technician.  If all of this modern, scientific technology worked flawlessly, then I'd be out of a job.  As it is, I'm pretty busy lately.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 18, 2011, 05:04:12 PM
I'm a service technician.  If all of this modern, scientific technology worked flawlessly, then I'd be out of a job.  As it is, I'm pretty busy lately.

So I am I. I'm pretty busy too...mostly caused by stupid people doing stupid things, thats what keeps me in a job.

Occasionally a disc fails or a power supply goes, but thats why we build redundancy into the system. To 99.99% of the users for 99.9999% of the time things work with no problem.

I note your posts are still getting here, internet is still working then!

This is digressing slightly from the original point of....stuff works, until it disproves FET, at which point it is suddenly claimed to be a NASA conspiracy.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 18, 2011, 05:17:59 PM
This is digressing slightly from the original point of....stuff works, until it disproves FET, at which point it is suddenly claimed to be a NASA conspiracy.

FET doesn't deny that stuff works.  It just questions how certain things work.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 18, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
FET doesn't deny that stuff works.  It just questions how certain things work.

Yes, certain things. How convenient.

Changing how certain things work to suit FET causes a cascade of other questions to be asked, before you know it you are patching so many caveats onto FET that its wobbles and crashes down.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: gotham on January 18, 2011, 06:01:16 PM
For starters, it can be said that the Zetetic model contributes to humankind by developing individuals with advanced capacities for intuitive and rational thinking leading to logical conclusions and solutions. 

Given the freedom of thought advanced in Zeteticism and how that translates into discovering how the world around us really works, the contributions that have and will be made are endless.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Beorn on January 18, 2011, 06:02:29 PM
For starters, it can be said that the Zetetic model contributes to humankind by developing individuals with advanced capacities for intuitive and rational thinking leading to logical conclusions and solutions. 


What is intuitive or rational about moonshrimp, bendy light and UA?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: gotham on January 18, 2011, 06:07:29 PM
For starters, it can be said that the Zetetic model contributes to humankind by developing individuals with advanced capacities for intuitive and rational thinking leading to logical conclusions and solutions. 


What is intuitive or rational about moonshrimp, bendy light and UA?

Asking questions is a good thing.  Finding the answers takes more time but studying these things will prove time well spent.  There are specialists in those areas that I am learning from, too. 
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 18, 2011, 06:10:32 PM
Huh, what has modern science ever done for us? Apart from the aqueduct. And sanitation. And the roads. And irrigation... medicine... education... polio vaccinations... lasers... microchips... aircraft... the internet... funny how all that stuff works flawlessly... except when it proves the Earth is a sphere and then suddenly "nooo, thats a NASA microchip <hushed voice>you can't trust it...</hushed voice>".

Some of those things may have been developed using Zetetic methodology without the person aware that they were using it.

Read Zetetic and Theologic Compared and Defined (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm#page_1) for a description on how Zeteticism differs compared to other methods of inquiry.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 19, 2011, 11:36:24 AM
For starters, it can be said that the Zetetic model contributes to humankind by developing individuals with advanced capacities for intuitive and rational thinking leading to logical conclusions and solutions. 

Given the freedom of thought advanced in Zeteticism and how that translates into discovering how the world around us really works, the contributions that have and will be made are endless.

It can be said. Why does that make it correct? Such woolly thinking surely denies everything you just tried to say.

Some of those things may have been developed using Zetetic methodology without the person aware that they were using it.

Oh dear, Tom is at the woolly thinking as well now. Perhaps the space shuttle was developed using Zetetic methodology as well? What kind of conundrum would that present?!
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 19, 2011, 11:51:48 AM
Oh dear, Tom is at the woolly thinking as well now. Perhaps the space shuttle was developed using Zetetic methodology as well? What kind of conundrum would that present?!

As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: General Disarray on January 19, 2011, 12:57:34 PM
I've asked this before, nothing was presented. Zeteticism has not contributed anything to the development of humankind.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 19, 2011, 01:12:46 PM
Oh dear, Tom is at the woolly thinking as well now. Perhaps the space shuttle was developed using Zetetic methodology as well? What kind of conundrum would that present?!

As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.

Actually, the space shuttle does exist.  Whether or not it actually goes into space as advertised is another matter.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 19, 2011, 01:46:37 PM
Oh dear, Tom is at the woolly thinking as well now. Perhaps the space shuttle was developed using Zetetic methodology as well? What kind of conundrum would that present?!

As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.

Actually, the space shuttle does exist.  Whether or not it actually goes into space as advertised is another matter.

If it's not going into space it's not really a "space" shuttle, is it?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Part of the Problem on January 19, 2011, 01:57:38 PM
As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.
Actually, the space shuttle does exist.  Whether or not it actually goes into space as advertised is another matter.
If it's not going into space it's not really a "space" shuttle, is it?

Yes, because that's what it's called.  Something doesn't cease to exist once you decide you don't like its name.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 19, 2011, 02:00:01 PM
As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.
Actually, the space shuttle does exist.  Whether or not it actually goes into space as advertised is another matter.
If it's not going into space it's not really a "space" shuttle, is it?

Yes, because that's what it's called.  Something doesn't cease to exist once you decide you don't like its name.

An empty prop which goes into the upper atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

It's like pointing at a cardboard cutout of a ferarri and calling it a ferarri. It's not a ferarri. It's a cardboard cutout.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Part of the Problem on January 19, 2011, 02:10:05 PM
As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.
Actually, the space shuttle does exist.  Whether or not it actually goes into space as advertised is another matter.
If it's not going into space it's not really a "space" shuttle, is it?

Yes, because that's what it's called.  Something doesn't cease to exist once you decide you don't like its name.

An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

It's like pointing at a cardboard cutout of a ferarri and calling it a ferarri. It's not a ferarri. It's a cardboard cutout.

You can call it whatever you want, but it still exists.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: trig on January 19, 2011, 02:14:50 PM
Oh dear, Tom is at the woolly thinking as well now. Perhaps the space shuttle was developed using Zetetic methodology as well? What kind of conundrum would that present?!

As the Space Shuttle does not exist, it would make quite the conundrum.
As Tom Bishop does not exist, we have the terrible conundrum of a claim without a claimant.

At least, I have the evidence of untold thousands of people who have seen the launches of the shuttle, and the films and photographs too. I have no evidence whatsoever that Tom Bishop exists.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 19, 2011, 02:29:56 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 19, 2011, 03:08:55 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

It's like pointing at a cardboard cutout of a ferarri and calling it a ferarri. It's not a ferarri. It's a cardboard cutout.

Given that upon launch people can observe the shuttle moving at speeds of thousands of km/h, ie, suborbital speeds at least, its going to travel thousands of km. Where does it go for two weeks? How does it get back?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: New Earth on January 19, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
Tom Bishop should be awarded a gold medal for having the nerves of steel, putting up with you round earthers.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 19, 2011, 03:55:48 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?

All of the evidence is in Earth Not a Globe.

Quote
Given that upon launch people can observe the shuttle moving at speeds of thousands of km/h, ie, suborbital speeds at least, its going to travel thousands of km. Where does it go for two weeks? How does it get back?

The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Beorn on January 19, 2011, 03:56:51 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?

I read Earth Not a Globe.

So the fake space shuttles were around in the 1800's?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 19, 2011, 03:58:30 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?

I read Earth Not a Globe.

So the fake space shuttles were around in the 1800's?

No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 19, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 19, 2011, 04:11:52 PM
The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.

From its observed speed and direction we know it can make it to Africa or Europe (called a Transoceanic Abort Landing), obviously it needs a huge runway. So if it does this, it will be observed. A reception crew of several thousand people would then need to collect it, rebuild a full shuttle stack in Europe (shuttle, fuel tank and two boosters) in two weeks (never been done) without fail and then launch it back to the USA (without being seen). It would then have to fly across the USA or north pole unseen, turn around and then pretend to "reenter" from the west. Rentry has been observed.

And not a single person has ever leaked a single part of this.

I can think of hundreds more problems that would have to be overcome.

Wow, you can actually kill FET just by analysing a shuttle launch.

Oh, and responses of the "I don't know how it happens but it does" aren't allowed - please give arguements to knock down each point above. I will then start posting the other problems I can think of.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on January 19, 2011, 06:24:39 PM
And please, don't turn the argument around and accuse modern Science.

Skepticism has. And many Zetetics seem to think all skeptics are secretly one of them. They'll tag just about anything as Zetetic inspired (e.g. the Legend of Zelda) or anyone as a flat earther (Newton). Also since they consider all of their "research" to be true, then they have contributed loads.

So if you ask them, yes.
Its like trying to argue with a $cienlolgist (http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2010/05/scientology-logic.html).
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on January 19, 2011, 06:28:58 PM
Well, your post made it onto this board didn't it? :)

When was the last time you actually saw some of that stuff fail? I don't mean on TV or the net, cos that just proves that some of that stuff is working (the lasers, microchips and internet).

I'm a service technician.  If all of this modern, scientific technology worked flawlessly, then I'd be out of a job.  As it is, I'm pretty busy lately.
why are we trolling our own?
his point is, that the ideas and concepts work. what doesn't work is the engineering behind it, as that is prone to human error and natural impedements

No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?
refer to my above link.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on January 19, 2011, 06:38:08 PM
For starters, it can be said that the Zetetic model contributes to humankind by developing individuals with advanced capacities for intuitive and rational thinking leading to logical conclusions and solutions. 

Given the freedom of thought advanced in Zeteticism and how that translates into discovering how the world around us really works, the contributions that have and will be made are endless.

Great point, but you seemed to have mistyped Scientific Method.
Zeteticism contributes so much to society, that it has over 1000 google hits! (well over by 40).
But seriously don't kid yourself, the scientific method and economic drive are the cause of discovery, technology, and innovation.
all of these (http://www.edinformatics.com/inventions_inventors/) were made by scientists.

or the "contributions" you were referring to, was that moonlight is harmful and plants don't need light.
thanks for that.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on January 19, 2011, 06:44:02 PM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?

All of the evidence is in Earth Not a Globe.

Quote
Given that upon launch people can observe the shuttle moving at speeds of thousands of km/h, ie, suborbital speeds at least, its going to travel thousands of km. Where does it go for two weeks? How does it get back?

The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.

uhm... so everyone who has been in outer-space was lying. fine. but what about that people who saw the people go into the ship.
or the hours of zero g film?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Moon squirter on January 19, 2011, 11:48:40 PM
No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

1. You cannot use words like "proof" is a reasoned debate, unless you are a  Bachelor of Pseudoscience.   It would be better to say:
     Earth Not a Globe provides compelling evidence in my opinion that the earth is flat.

2. "Therefore other evidence is invalid" (paraphrased) is logically incorrect.  You need to demonstrate this, without using a circular argument.

3. Putting all your faith in one man and one book... Mmmmm.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: New Earth on January 20, 2011, 12:11:58 AM
If the earth is an infinite plain then there is no space, this where I disagree with John Davis. I believe infinite earth would also be infinite vertically. Tom Bishop is right thou. Spaceships is just something from science fiction.  ;D
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Moon squirter on January 20, 2011, 12:28:41 AM
If the earth is an infinite plain then there is no space, this where I disagree with John Davis. I believe infinite earth would also be infinite vertically. Tom Bishop is right thou. Spaceships is just something from science fiction.  ;D

Again, you cannot use words like "infinite" in a reasoned debate.  It is in the domain of mathematics or religion ("eternity").  You could say "the boundaries of the FE cosmos are unknown".


Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: New Earth on January 20, 2011, 03:29:19 AM
Yes you are right, its hard to grasp the concept of eternity. Michio Kaku however always uses the word infinite. He says that there are infinite parallel universes for example. To be honest with you, I do not agree that there are infinite number of them but there might be few.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 06:44:35 AM
Yes you are right, its hard to grasp the concept of eternity. Michio Kaku however always uses the word infinite. He says that there are infinite parallel universes for example. To be honest with you, I do not agree that there are infinite number of them but there might be few.

Michio Kaku is a theoretical physicist. 
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 11:26:17 AM
Quote
You cannot use words like "proof" is a reasoned debate

Yes I can. Rowbotham's work has been confirmed and verified by others. Therefore his work meets the status of "proof".

No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?

Rowbotham's work is correct because it has been validated and confirmed by others.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 11:28:44 AM
An empty prop which goes into the uppar atmosphere and down again is not really a Space Shuttle - it's a prop.

What evidence do you have that the space shuttle is empty on lift off and that it goes no higher than the upper atmosphere?

All of the evidence is in Earth Not a Globe.

Quote
Given that upon launch people can observe the shuttle moving at speeds of thousands of km/h, ie, suborbital speeds at least, its going to travel thousands of km. Where does it go for two weeks? How does it get back?

The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.

uhm... so everyone who has been in outer-space was lying. fine. but what about that people who saw the people go into the ship.
or the hours of zero g film?

- Who saw the people go into the ship? It's hard to see what's happening while sitting on bleachers while watching the shuttle prepare to take off in the distance.

- CGI.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 11:41:40 AM
No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?

Rowbotham's work is correct because it has been validated and confirmed by others.

Tom, why is it that you seem to have a problem answering the question that I ask?  I didn't ask you if Rowbotham's work was correct, I asked if his reasoning was infallible.  There is a difference.  ::)
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 11:43:49 AM
- Who saw the people go into the ship?

The technicians responsible for helping the astronauts strap in and seal the door.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Supertails on January 20, 2011, 12:40:34 PM
Yes you are right, its hard to grasp the concept of eternity. Michio Kaku however always uses the word infinite. He says that there are infinite parallel universes for example. To be honest with you, I do not agree that there are infinite number of them but there might be few.

Michio Kaku is a theoretical physicist. 
So I am I!  I'm a theoretical physicist.  I've got a theoretical degree in physics.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 20, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.

From its observed speed and direction we know it can make it to Africa or Europe (called a Transoceanic Abort Landing), obviously it needs a huge runway. So if it does this, it will be observed. A reception crew of several thousand people would then need to collect it, rebuild a full shuttle stack in Europe (shuttle, fuel tank and two boosters) in two weeks (never been done) without fail and then launch it back to the USA (without being seen). It would then have to fly across the USA or north pole unseen, turn around and then pretend to "reenter" from the west. Rentry has been observed.

And not a single person has ever leaked a single part of this.

I can think of hundreds more problems that would have to be overcome.

Wow, you can actually kill FET just by analysing a shuttle launch.

Oh, and responses of the "I don't know how it happens but it does" aren't allowed - please give arguements to knock down each point above. I will then start posting the other problems I can think of.


I see this has been quietly passed by....
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 03:23:05 PM
Tom, why is it that you seem to have a problem answering the question that I ask?  I didn't ask you if Rowbotham's work was correct, I asked if his reasoning was infallible.  There is a difference.  ::)

Rowbotham isn't infalliable, but he is correct.

The technicians responsible for helping the astronauts strap in and seal the door.

So the only people who saw the astronauts go into the shuttle were people employed by the Conspiracy, then?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 03:33:07 PM
The Space Shuttle goes up in the air until it is out of sight. Where it lands for the two weeks, what happens to it, and how it gets back into the upper atmosphere is, of course, unknown.

From its observed speed and direction we know it can make it to Africa or Europe (called a Transoceanic Abort Landing), obviously it needs a huge runway. So if it does this, it will be observed. A reception crew of several thousand people would then need to collect it, rebuild a full shuttle stack in Europe (shuttle, fuel tank and two boosters) in two weeks (never been done) without fail and then launch it back to the USA (without being seen). It would then have to fly across the USA or north pole unseen, turn around and then pretend to "reenter" from the west. Rentry has been observed.

And not a single person has ever leaked a single part of this.

I can think of hundreds more problems that would have to be overcome.

Wow, you can actually kill FET just by analysing a shuttle launch.

Oh, and responses of the "I don't know how it happens but it does" aren't allowed - please give arguements to knock down each point above. I will then start posting the other problems I can think of.


I see this has been quietly passed by....

Quote
From its observed speed and direction we know it can make it to Africa or Europe (called a Transoceanic Abort Landing), obviously it needs a huge runway. So if it does this, it will be observed.

There are thousands of runways visible on Google maps all over the world, including some which are on secluded islands without a civilian population for hundreds of miles around.

Quote
A reception crew of several thousand people would then need to collect it, rebuild a full shuttle stack in Europe (shuttle, fuel tank and two boosters) in two weeks (never been done) without fail and then launch it back to the USA (without being seen).


NASA already hires out companies who build fuel stacks and rockets for its projects. They would simply order an extra set for the shuttle's return launch. They don't need to build it in two weeks. NASA would have already ordered it years prior to coincide with the shuttle launch.

Also, the shuttle is not seen on its return trip for the same reason the shuttle disappears to sight shortly after it first launches: it's simply too high and obscured by atmosphere.

Quote
And not a single person has ever leaked a single part of this.

The people building the fuel tanks don't necessarily know what NASA's going to be doing with the fuel tanks.

The people on the distant islands preparing the shuttle for its return trip likely have Top Secret clearances. They know what will happen to them if they talk.

But even if there was a leak, the government excells at supressing the american media from publishing stuff it doesn't like.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: IOA on January 20, 2011, 03:35:18 PM
The people on the distant islands preparing the shuttle for its return trip likely have Top Secret clearances. They know what will happen to them if they talk.

What if they were on their deathbed, about to die? It seems to me like it wouldn't matter to them if they were to leak information; they were going to die anyway.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 03:43:07 PM
Rowbotham isn't infalliable, but he is correct.

If Rowbotham isn't infallible, then there is a chance that he could be wrong.

So the only people who saw the astronauts go into the shuttle were people employed by the Conspiracy, then?

Are you suggesting guilt by association or are the technicians actual conspirators?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 20, 2011, 04:16:47 PM
I see this has been quietly passed by....

Quote
From its observed speed and direction we know it can make it to Africa or Europe (called a Transoceanic Abort Landing), obviously it needs a huge runway. So if it does this, it will be observed.

There are thousands of runways visible on Google maps all over the world, including some which are on secluded islands without a civilian population for hundreds of miles around.

Quote
A reception crew of several thousand people would then need to collect it, rebuild a full shuttle stack in Europe (shuttle, fuel tank and two boosters) in two weeks (never been done) without fail and then launch it back to the USA (without being seen).


NASA already hires out companies who build fuel stacks and rockets for its projects. They would simply order an extra set for the shuttle's return launch. They don't need to build it in two weeks. NASA would have already ordered it years prior to coincide with the shuttle launch.

Also, the shuttle is not seen on its return trip for the same reason the shuttle disappears to sight shortly after it first launches: it's simply too high and obscured by atmosphere.

Quote
And not a single person has ever leaked a single part of this.

The people building the fuel tanks don't necessarily know what NASA's going to be doing with the fuel tanks.

The people on the distant islands preparing the shuttle for its return trip likely have Top Secret clearances. They know what will happen to them if they talk.

But even if there was a leak the government excells at supressing the american media from publishing stuff it doesn't like.

Oh crumbs, where do I start, you really have no technical knowledge or appreciation at all!

Runways...yeah, cos the shuttle can land on just any runway - doesnt need one of the longest in the world at all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Landing_Facility

And then to build the stack you need the fourth largest building in the world, but I'm sure there are plenty of those around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building

And of course we all know that the shuttle can always launch two weeks or less after it was used. 100% record there, never any technical or weather delays at all.

You then have to explain why tugs are fetching another set of boosters out of the sea west of Africa. Claim they are just big fireworks maybe?

This is so funny, I can go on picking holes in anything you come back with on this forever. Major FET fail.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 04:28:00 PM
Quote
Runways...yeah, cos the shuttle can land on just any runway - doesnt need one of the longest in the world at all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Landing_Facility

Since the shuttle is not going into space and since it is not traveling at escape-velocity type speeds, I doubt it needs "one of the longest runways in the world" to land.

Quote
And then to build the stack you need the fourth largest building in the world, but I'm sure there are plenty of those around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building

The second fuel stack could be built in the same Vehicle Assembly Building.

Quote
And of course we all know that the shuttle can always launch two weeks or less after it was used. 100% record there, never any technical or weather delays at all.

If there was a delay NASA would just blame it on one of their space projects taking too long. Or a technical issue with re-entry, or they could say that they wanted to wait for weather conditions to improve before re-entry. There a million and one excuses they could give.

Quote
You then have to explain why tugs are fetching another set of boosters out of the sea west of Africa. Claim they are just big fireworks maybe?

Why would they need to fetch them out of the water?

Quote
This is so funny, I can go on picking holes in anything you come back with on this forever. Major FET fail.

You didn't pick any holes.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 04:30:07 PM
The people on the distant islands preparing the shuttle for its return trip likely have Top Secret clearances. They know what will happen to them if they talk.

What if they were on their deathbed, about to die? It seems to me like it wouldn't matter to them if they were to leak information; they were going to die anyway.

The government has hundreds of thousands of people with classified clearances, working on secret projects of all sorts all over the United States. I don't hear about an exodus of people leaking information on their death beds.

When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.

Talking about work is probably one of the last things you want to do.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 04:34:24 PM
Rowbotham isn't infalliable, but he is correct.

If Rowbotham isn't infallible, then there is a chance that he could be wrong.

Not if his work has been reviewed and verified to be correct.

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So the only people who saw the astronauts go into the shuttle were people employed by the Conspiracy, then?

Are you suggesting guilt by association or are the technicians actual conspirators?

If they know that they are sending up cheaply made props then obviously they're in on it.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: IOA on January 20, 2011, 04:38:13 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 04:42:05 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: doyh on January 20, 2011, 04:42:45 PM
Rowbotham isn't infalliable, but he is correct.

If Rowbotham isn't infallible, then there is a chance that he could be wrong.

Not if his work has been reviewed and verified to be correct.

Quote
So the only people who saw the astronauts go into the shuttle were people employed by the Conspiracy, then?

Are you suggesting guilt by association or are the technicians actual conspirators?

If they know that they are sending up cheaply made props then obviously they're in on it.

It has been stated that there are 45 people in on the conspiracy. You are adding several hundred technicians, private corporations, the UN, and the leader of every country in the world to that number.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: doyh on January 20, 2011, 04:43:32 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
Rowbotham isn't infalliable, but he is correct.

If Rowbotham isn't infallible, then there is a chance that he could be wrong.

Not if his work has been reviewed and verified to be correct.

What if his work has been reviewed and verified to be wrong?

Quote
So the only people who saw the astronauts go into the shuttle were people employed by the Conspiracy, then?

Are you suggesting guilt by association or are the technicians actual conspirators?

If they know that they are sending up cheaply made props then obviously they're in on it.

A 4.5 million pound, reusable, manned rocket system doesn't sound like a "cheaply made prop" to me.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 20, 2011, 07:39:30 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

What evidence do you have that the government had anything to do with Thomas Baron's death other than the speculation of conspiracy theorists?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: doyh on January 20, 2011, 08:45:07 PM
Quote
You cannot use words like "proof" is a reasoned debate

Yes I can. Rowbotham's work has been confirmed and verified by others. Therefore his work meets the status of "proof".

No. Earth Not a Globe proves that the earth is flat. Therefore the shuttle and NASA's other space ventures must be a sham.

Are you suggesting that Rowbotham was infallible in his reasoning?

Rowbotham's work is correct because it has been validated and confirmed by others.

Actually, real scientists have disproved it.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 20, 2011, 09:30:35 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: General Disarray on January 20, 2011, 10:51:49 PM
Zeteticism has not contributed anything to the development of humankind.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 21, 2011, 06:33:40 AM
Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Beorn on January 21, 2011, 10:44:55 AM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.

If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?

There's lots. Usually it's one doing all the suicide dragging the rest with them.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: doyh on January 21, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
When you're on your death bed you have better things to think about -- like your impending death, all the people you will be leaving behind, and who will support your family once you are gone.
If it were me, I'd want the world to know the truth before I die. I don't know, I guess I'm just not that much of a coward.


If it the government is willing to take out ex-NASA employee Thomas Baron's family (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Thomas+Baron+Silenced+for+Attempting+to+Expose+the+Truth), what makes you think that they wouldn't be willing to take out yours?

Really Tom? You still think that they murdered him with a train?

Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

How many family group suicides do you see?


It wasn't a suicide.

Quote from:  http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing.

Quote from:  http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Didn't Apollo defenders once claim that Baron had committed suicide?

Yes. That report was based on discussions among historians that occurred in about 2002 but was ultimately revealed to be little more than hearsay. Investigative journalist Gary Corsair reports the findings of the Florida Highway Patrol, and has uncovered no evidence of suicide.

This website is quoted several times in the FAQ, so don't you dare tell me that it isn't accurate.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: turtles on January 21, 2011, 04:38:30 PM
Quote
Runways...yeah, cos the shuttle can land on just any runway - doesnt need one of the longest in the world at all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Landing_Facility

Since the shuttle is not going into space and since it is not traveling at escape-velocity type speeds, I doubt it needs "one of the longest runways in the world" to land.
Duh, you don't know what escape velocity is? It is the velocity required to leave a planets gravitational field. You can deny gravity, but you can't deny thats what the term means. Even if you meant "reentry speed" that is still wrong, it doesnt land at reentry speed, but a little over 200 knots. It can get up to that speed being dropped off the back of a 747.

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And then to build the stack you need the fourth largest building in the world, but I'm sure there are plenty of those around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building

The second fuel stack could be built in the same Vehicle Assembly Building.

What are you going to bolt the fuel tank too? Your shuttle is apparently in Africa or Europe. OK, lets say you did build a second one in the VAB, how are you going to sneak 180 foot tall rocket out of the building to a port, put it on a cargo ship, move it across the atlantic, get it off the other end and then still hoist it upright and put your shuttle on it.

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And of course we all know that the shuttle can always launch two weeks or less after it was used. 100% record there, never any technical or weather delays at all.

If there was a delay NASA would just blame it on one of their space projects taking too long. Or a technical issue with re-entry, or they could say that they wanted to wait for weather conditions to improve before re-entry. There a million and one excuses they could give.

Yeah, but you only have maximum 3 weeks of mission time. So lets say the mission is supposed to last 2 weeks. You then try and launch the shuttle back to Florida but something goes wrong. You have a max of one week to fix it, and we know shuttle launches have been delayed far longer than that before.

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You then have to explain why tugs are fetching another set of boosters out of the sea west of Africa. Claim they are just big fireworks maybe?

Why would they need to fetch them out of the water?

Cos the boosters are reuseable. After every launch they send tugs out into the Atlantic to fetch them back. Not something that is easy to hide.

Watch this -

Quote
This is so funny, I can go on picking holes in anything you come back with on this forever. Major FET fail.

You didn't pick any holes.

I have now.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Thevoiceofreason on January 22, 2011, 10:53:41 PM
I never understood why FE'er stood behind Rowboat.

If we're going to invoke authority, lets invoke the physics  and geo departments of 100+ of the worlds finest universities.
In a battle of scientists, FE simply cannot win against the entire globe
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 23, 2011, 07:16:18 PM
Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.

All streets with train track intersections have train crossings by law. What kind of "accident" did he have?
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 23, 2011, 07:35:35 PM
Also, in response to your quote, he was murdered after the first congressional hearing because he was scheduled to come back and give more details about his findings. He was to publish a 500 page congressional report the week after his murder which, curiously, was never found.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 23, 2011, 07:43:21 PM
Well, either they were murdered or the entire family decided to have a group suicide together by parking their car on some train tracks.

Tom, you're ignoring a third possibility:
Quote from: http://www.xmission.com/~jwindley/baron.html
Officially Thomas Baron's death is ruled an accident by the Florida Highway Patrol. The investigating trooper concluded that Baron had tried to beat a train at a crossing. Had Baron been murdered, it would have made more sense to do that before he testified and before he delivered a lengthy report to Congress. Baron had already been known to the press as a sort of whistle-blower and a critic of North American since early 1967 at the latest. To try to "silence" him three months later, after his testimony, is useless.

All streets with train track intersections have train crossings by law. What kind of "accident" did he have?

Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: doyh on January 23, 2011, 09:27:21 PM
He tried to beat the train. It's tragic, but it is also a rather common way to die any not should not be fodder for conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: General Disarray on January 23, 2011, 11:18:42 PM
Zeteticism has not contributed anything to the development of humankind.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 23, 2011, 11:55:59 PM
Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Supertails on January 24, 2011, 01:29:17 AM
Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.
Weird how we have ones that don't, here...oh well, obviously must be an illusion since you're the end-all be-all of train crossings!  Glad we have someone who knows the status of every single crossing in the United States here.  :)
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: barrog on January 24, 2011, 06:15:38 AM
Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

Hey all been lurking for a long time but felt the need to respond to this. I live in a town that used to be very dependent on trains so there is a alot of crossings. A few times a week a train still comes through. Not all the crossings have a way to block traffic. And the ones that do people can still get around them. I have seen this first hand. People are just too impatient. Also there are plenty of videos of this on the internet.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 24, 2011, 06:27:58 AM
Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

No, they don't.
(http://www.oksolar.com/0_n_cart/images/104075_large.jpg)
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: berny_74 on January 24, 2011, 08:26:02 AM
Train crossings don't necessarily block traffic when a train is coming, even today.

Actually, they do.

On the way to Kitchen/Waterloo, nothing blocks traffic (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.559455,-80.557698&spn=0,0.00327&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.559455,-80.557698&panoid=69tZjx-0sfEEqky9bky8HQ&cbp=12,348.76,,0,5)

Couldn't get google maps to post the pic so there's the link.
But an easy search shows dozens of unguarded railway crossings.
Quote from: http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page1302.aspx
According to Transport Canada, in 2002, at least 15 people were killed and 14 seriously injured in 77 railway crossing accidents/collisions in Ontario.  When compared to the national average, 30% of 261 railway-crossing accidents/collisions occured in Ontario.

Which means death by train is - not uncommon at all.

Berny
Thinks Tom needs to get out to the country a bit more.


Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Supertails on January 24, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
I think he just needs to stop clinging desperately to a position once he's chosen it.  Being wrong now and then is okay, Tom.  It's normal.  No need to be ashamed.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2011, 04:05:39 PM
No, they don't.
(http://www.oksolar.com/0_n_cart/images/104075_large.jpg)

All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: IOA on January 24, 2011, 04:36:03 PM
That's irrelevant. He still pointed out a single counter-conjecture, so your conjecture is false.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: berny_74 on January 24, 2011, 05:40:40 PM
All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision
From our famous Wikipedia
Quote
All public crossings in the United States are required to be marked by at least a crossbuck; most crossings intersecting rural roads have this setup. If the crossing has more than one railroad track, the crossbuck will usually have a small sign beneath it denoting the number of tracks. As traffic on the road crossing or the rail crossing increases, safety features are increased accordingly. More heavily trafficked crossings have AWDs, with alternately flashing red lights to warn automobile drivers and a bell to warn pedestrians. Additional safety is attained through crossing gates that block automobiles' approach to the tracks when activated. Increasingly, crossings are being fitted with four-quadrant gates to prevent circumventing the gates.

And more on the crossbuck....
Quote from: http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/technical_working_group/twg_part_1.pdf
1.  A crossbuck is a type of YIELD sign: the driver should be prepared to
stop at least 4.5 m (15 ft) before the near rail if necessary, unless and
until the driver can make a reasonable decision that there are no trains
in hazardous proximity to the crossing, and it is safe to cross.

A further look at the article we take a look......
Quote
Paragraph (c) of this section
establishes that the private crossings
within a quiet zone must at a minimum
be equipped with crossbucks and
??STOP?? signs conforming to MUTCD
standards together with advance
warning signs in compliance with
? 222.35(c).

The "minimum" requirement for private crossings.

I think he just needs to stop clinging desperately to a position once he's chosen it.  Being wrong now and then is okay, Tom.  It's normal.  No need to be ashamed.

Stop beating the dead horse.

Berny
Really - get out MORE.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on January 24, 2011, 06:01:16 PM
Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision

First of all, it was a state, not the federal, DoT mentioned in that article.  Secondly, please provide evidence that there were laws requiring gates at railroad crossing on public roads in Florida in effect at the time of Tomas Baron's death.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Tausami on January 24, 2011, 06:05:23 PM
Honestly, Tom. You're desecrating a man's memory with conspiracy theories. Specifically, a man who arguably saved countless lives by exposing NASA's  lax safety regulations. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: theonlydann on June 17, 2011, 09:29:42 AM
Trains. They're awesome.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Around And About on June 17, 2011, 05:59:58 PM
"Trains are blameless, holy creatures."
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: gotham on June 17, 2011, 06:17:34 PM
"Railway termini are our gates to the glorious and the unknown. Through them we pass out into adventure and sunshine, to them, alas! we return."
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: Hessy on June 18, 2011, 08:51:32 PM
All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

You're assuming (incorrectly) that the law is followed everywhere by everyone.

I can also personally testify that some private AND public roads do not have gates, etc. on railroad intersections.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: sillyrob on June 18, 2011, 08:57:34 PM
Zeteticism has given us this website and the ability to get drunk and have fun on it from time to time!


Preemptive reported for being drunk on the internet.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: markjo on June 18, 2011, 09:02:04 PM
All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

You're assuming (incorrectly) that the law is followed everywhere by everyone.

He's also assuming (incorrectly) that the law was in effect in Florida in 1967.
Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: berny_74 on June 18, 2011, 09:09:53 PM
On the notion of Traincrossings



All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision (http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision)
From our famous Wikipedia
Quote
All public crossings in the United States are required to be marked by at least a crossbuck; most crossings intersecting rural roads have this setup. If the crossing has more than one railroad track, the crossbuck will usually have a small sign beneath it denoting the number of tracks. As traffic on the road crossing or the rail crossing increases, safety features are increased accordingly. More heavily trafficked crossings have AWDs, with alternately flashing red lights to warn automobile drivers and a bell to warn pedestrians. Additional safety is attained through crossing gates that block automobiles' approach to the tracks when activated. Increasingly, crossings are being fitted with four-quadrant gates to prevent circumventing the gates.

And more on the crossbuck....
Quote from: http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/technical_working_group/twg_part_1.pdf
1.  A crossbuck is a type of YIELD sign: the driver should be prepared to
stop at least 4.5 m (15 ft) before the near rail if necessary, unless and
until the driver can make a reasonable decision that there are no trains
in hazardous proximity to the crossing, and it is safe to cross.

A further look at the article we take a look......
Quote
Paragraph (c) of this section
establishes that the private crossings
within a quiet zone must at a minimum
be equipped with crossbucks and
??STOP?? signs conforming to MUTCD
standards together with advance
warning signs in compliance with
? 222.35(c).

The "minimum" requirement for private crossings.

I think he just needs to stop clinging desperately to a position once he's chosen it.  Being wrong now and then is okay, Tom.  It's normal.  No need to be ashamed.

Stop beating the dead horse.

Berny
Really - get out MORE.


Berny
This horse has been beaten

Title: Re: Has the zetetic model contributed anything to the development of humankind?
Post by: guanzo on June 20, 2011, 03:37:17 PM
No, they don't.
(http://www.oksolar.com/0_n_cart/images/104075_large.jpg)

All public roads must have gates by law. That road is obviously a little private road leading to someone's farm or something.

Here's an article where the DOT says that all public roads must have gates, but private roads may opt out:

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x98867492/Kentucky-truck-driver-ticketed-after-Yorkville-train-collision

Tom, explain to me why this "little private road" is paved, painted, and has power lines running down it? These are the characteristics of a tax payed public road.

This is a private road
(http://www.rjmservices.net/PrivateRoadLonePineRdSm.jpg)