# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: ClockTower on November 01, 2010, 12:36:20 AM

Title: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 01, 2010, 12:36:20 AM
Two topics (both rather current) taken together prove that the Earth is round.

The first topic started by JamesJamie (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25441) is: Coriolis Effect Proves Earth's Rotation (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42580.0).

The second topic that I started is: All FE models that have the FE spinning are wrong (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=43665.0).

So the Earth spins and no FE model can have the Earth spinning. FET is false.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 01, 2010, 12:38:33 AM
Two topics (both rather current) taken together prove that the Earth is round.

The first topic started by JamesJamie (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25441) is: Coriolis Effect Proves Earth's Rotation (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42580.0).

The second topic that I started is: All FE models that have the FE spinning are wrong (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=43665.0).

So the Earth spins and no FE model can have the Earth spinning. FET is false.

Then your work here is done?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: EnglshGentleman on November 01, 2010, 12:55:26 AM
Then your work here is done?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Danukenator123 on November 01, 2010, 06:22:12 AM
Then your work here is done?

Not until the stupidity and ignorance is dealt with.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 01, 2010, 06:42:05 AM
Can't he work on his stupidity and ignorance on his own?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 01, 2010, 06:45:55 AM
I don't see how the first thread constitutes conclusive evidence of anything. The potential effects of Aetheric Eddification combined with innaccurate cartographic and geographic assumptions based on a RE would easily account for the scenarios he presented. You'll have to do better.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 06:52:13 AM
Too bad the stupidity is quite relative. But I still like the Heinlein's quote:

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 01, 2010, 06:55:10 AM
I may one day ban him, but I doubt an execution is in order.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Raist on November 01, 2010, 07:15:53 AM
I may give him a full 100 day ban, and then I will kill him.

fixed. do it ski.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: General Disarray on November 01, 2010, 08:30:58 AM
Aetheric Eddification

Please define this theory in detail so we may discuss it properly.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 01, 2010, 08:49:08 AM
The potential effects of Aetheric Eddification combined with innaccurate cartographic and geographic assumptions based on a RE would easily account for the scenarios he presented. You'll have to do better.

Please do not reference undocumented theories (Aetherific Edification).  Once John publishes his findings on this subject, then we can discuss what potential effects it might or might not account for.  The same should go for Steve's Electromagnetic Acceleration theory.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: General Disarray on November 01, 2010, 10:11:52 AM
The potential effects of Aetheric Eddification combined with innaccurate cartographic and geographic assumptions based on a RE would easily account for the scenarios he presented. You'll have to do better.

Please do not reference undocumented theories (Aetherific Edification).  Once John publishes his findings on this subject, then we can discuss what potential effects it might or might not account for.  The same should go for Steve's Electromagnetic Acceleration theory.

Exactly, he may as well have just said "The earth may still be flat due to magic."
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 01, 2010, 11:17:37 AM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon, but we can't assume it's AET? I do love how oblivious RE'ers are to their own double-standards.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 11:51:46 AM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon, but we can't assume it's AET? I do love how oblivious RE'ers are to their own double-standards.
You make it sound like the Coriolis effect is some magic like AET. I challenge you to find from some library with literature about the AET. I go and find some with literature about the Coriolis effect.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 01, 2010, 11:55:46 AM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon, but we can't assume it's AET? I do love how oblivious RE'ers are to their own double-standards.
You make it sound like the Coriolis effect is some magic like AET. I challenge you to find from some library with literature about the AET. I go and find some with literature about the Coriolis effect.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not getting sucked into a debate about whether or not that proves anything (it doesn't), because this is FED. Suffice to say if you think finding books about something in a library validate it, you are digging yourself a hole. I advise you to put down the spade and climb out now, while you still can.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 01, 2010, 12:53:09 PM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon, but we can't assume it's AET? I do love how oblivious RE'ers are to their own double-standards.

No double standard here, Wilmore.  Properties of the Coriolis Effect are well documented.  Aether and bendy light are not.  Unless you can cite a source that defines those properties, there is no way to either substantiate or refute any claims based on those theories.  I call that bad science. As a Zetetic, you should appreciate that.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 01:30:35 PM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon, but we can't assume it's AET? I do love how oblivious RE'ers are to their own double-standards.
You make it sound like the Coriolis effect is some magic like AET. I challenge you to find from some library with literature about the AET. I go and find some with literature about the Coriolis effect.
What does that have to do with anything? I'm not getting sucked into a debate about whether or not that proves anything (it doesn't), because this is FED. Suffice to say if you think finding books about something in a library validate it, you are digging yourself a hole. I advise you to put down the spade and climb out now, while you still can.
It has everything to do with it. Can you dig up from somewhere what is this AET? No. Can anyone dig up from somewhere what is Coriolis force and how it manifests itself? Yes. So, how is it that the Coriolis force and the AET are on the same level when there is absolutely nothing about the AET and Coriolis force is quite well explained.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Crustinator on November 01, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
So the OP can just assume that the coriolis effect is the cause of this phenomenon

No we can assume the coriolis effect is the cause because there is evidence to show it is the cause.

*yawn* Tom Bishop tactics never work Wilmore. You should know this by now.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 01, 2010, 03:09:51 PM
I don't see any evidence that the Coriolis force exists in the thread ClockTower posted. I guess that's his argument done and dusted.

No double standard here, Wilmore.  Properties of the Coriolis Effect are well documented.  Aether and bendy light are not.  Unless you can cite a source that defines those properties, there is no way to either substantiate or refute any claims based on those theories.  I call that bad science. As a Zetetic, you should appreciate that.

I would argue that the essential properties of the Coriolis effect are no better documented than those of Aetheric Eddification. I genuinely doubt anyone here can demonstrate otherwise.

Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 01, 2010, 03:44:59 PM
I hate Coriolis threads. They suck. Coriolis itself has too many flaws.
Why do the Aleutian and Icelandic gyres rotate the opposite way to all the others on the Northern hemisphere? Explain why the currents in the Sargasso sea also contradict Coriolis. How come some tornadoes just decide sod Coriolis, I'm going clockwise in the northern Hemisphere. Why do some storms do that to?

There are just too many ifs and buts to Coriolis. RErs always bring it up, but when it comes to a test, like which way does my sink drain, it falls flat on its backside.
It doesn't predict sinks, some ocean currents ignore it, some storms turn the opposite way as well. It doesn't prove anything. Its unpredictable and unreliable, suggesting there are some serious flaws in the concept, its not like earth is supposed to spin only some of the time, the results should be definative. But RErs always say, oh but look at Coriolis, FE must be wrong. Well, when you do look at it, its not all that. A bit more Zetetic research is needed. What can you see. Not Coriolis that's for sure. Someone come up with a home made test to prove it. I light a cigarette. Does the smoke always turn anti-clockwise? Nope. I flush my toilet. Lets me down again. If you do a parachute jump, do you spin with Coriolis, - plug hole effect? Nope. Not even a bit. Its lousy. :(
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 01, 2010, 04:27:02 PM
I would argue that the essential properties of the Coriolis effect are no better documented than those of Aetheric Eddification. I genuinely doubt anyone here can demonstrate otherwise.

Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.

Then what sort of demonstration would it take to convince you that the Coriolis Effect is better documented than Aetherific Edification? ???
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 04:45:22 PM
There are just too many ifs and buts to Coriolis. RErs always bring it up, but when it comes to a test, like which way does my sink drain, it falls flat on its backside.
Ohh, not again. Do you like to display your stupidity so much? The small things isn't affected so much about it. Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets explains it quite well. I guess you can find same explanations from other places. And the Coriolis force isn't the only factor on earth which affects currents an all other things. You better stop humping the Coriolis force as it should be the only thing here on the earth which affects things.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 04:48:48 PM
Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.
So, you are saying that "don't bother me with physics but let me touch the Coriolis force with my hands"? Or you want to say that there isn't any effects on you when you stand on the rotating sphere?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 01, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
You better stop humping the Coriolis force as it should be the only thing here on the earth which affects things.
Humping it? Which way will my balls swing in the northern hemisphere?
I am saying it seems to be the RE answer to everything. This daft thread included. But when there are so many exceptions, large scale and small, numerous and rare, how can it be said to be proven. I cannot prove it at home. You can only go on what scientists with an agenda are telling you. You need to open your eyes to the scale of the conspiracy. They are fooling you at every turn.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 05:00:33 PM
I cannot prove it at home. You can only go on what scientists with an agenda are telling you. You need to open your eyes to the scale of the conspiracy. They are fooling you at every turn.
Don't go in that way now. You can't prove most of things(or anything) at your home. You haven't even proved the flat earth. I doubt you even know where exactly your groceries come. You just trust the sellers.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Trekky0623 on November 01, 2010, 05:02:43 PM
The Coriolis Effect really doesn't become apparent until you look at storms. Drains and toiles and such are more affected by shape than the Earth, simply because they're too small. Once you get a storm like a hurricane, it becomes much more apparent.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 01, 2010, 05:06:35 PM
I cannot prove it at home. You can only go on what scientists with an agenda are telling you. You need to open your eyes to the scale of the conspiracy. They are fooling you at every turn.
Don't go in that way now. You can't prove most of things(or anything) at your home. You haven't even proved the flat earth. I doubt you even know where exactly your groceries come. You just trust the sellers.
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.

Trekky, check my link.

Explanation a few posts up.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 05:16:01 PM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 01, 2010, 05:21:20 PM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Slemon on November 01, 2010, 05:28:10 PM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?

Attack the science, not the sources. What is your reason for not trusting the government as a source?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 01, 2010, 05:39:01 PM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?

Attack the science, not the sources. What is your reason for not trusting the government as a source?
Because they are trying to convince the people of earth that it is round. My next post is going to be a 'lurk moar' one if you follow this line of debate.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 01, 2010, 09:52:12 PM
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?
And you continue your display of ... whatever you call it. Trust government to deliver correct science to you? You know how stupid you sound? Government won't do science. Scientists do. And quite a many of them are on the payroll of the private companies. Milkman and the shop have exactly in the same way the ulterior motive as your government. You just don't know it and trust them blindly. You really are gullible and hypocrite. I rather want to know from where my milk comes(and you know, it won't come from the milkman. you can maybe trust that he delivers it to your doorstep but he doesn't produce it, so, I wonder from where it comes from...) than what shape the earth is because my life depends more on the milk than from the shape of the earth. You really must put your priorities on place.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: gotham on November 02, 2010, 04:46:34 AM
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?
And you continue your display of ... whatever you call it. Trust government to deliver correct science to you? You know how stupid you sound? Government won't do science. Scientists do. And quite a many of them are on the payroll of the private companies. Milkman and the shop have exactly in the same way the ulterior motive as your government. You just don't know it and trust them blindly. You really are gullible and hypocrite. I rather want to know from where my milk comes(and you know, it won't come from the milkman. you can maybe trust that he delivers it to your doorstep but he doesn't produce it, so, I wonder from where it comes from...) than what shape the earth is because my life depends more on the milk than from the shape of the earth. You really must put your priorities on place.

When people are paid like the scientists you run the risk of people saying what the people paying them want them to say.  In terms of the milk, I would much prefer that milkman bringing my dairy products to the door but it is not available anymore in my area.  They represent one dairy in most cases and you can tour the facility to see if you like their processes.  You do not know where your milk comes from unless you physically sit next to the milker watching your batch going in the bucket and then following that batch all the way through the pasteurization process and brought the store shelf.  Not an option.  Bring back the milkman if you want to really trust your products.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 05:08:25 AM
When people are paid like the scientists you run the risk of people saying what the people paying them want them to say.  In terms of the milk, I would much prefer that milkman bringing my dairy products to the door but it is not available anymore in my area.  They represent one dairy in most cases and you can tour the facility to see if you like their processes.  You do not know where your milk comes from unless you physically sit next to the milker watching your batch going in the bucket and then following that batch all the way through the pasteurization process and brought the store shelf.  Not an option.  Bring back the milkman if you want to really trust your products.
You may also get the special demonstration which is designed specially for visitors, presented the process in ways that make it look good. Some information may be left out and who knows what else. You also have to know where the food for the cows comes and what it consist. And how cows are treated daily. An many more things. I don't really want to derail thread so much so I am not gonna argue it. My point is that you can't really trust your dairy either and there is not much difference if it is government or dairy production(even the local one). And maybe the milkman comes to your house to flirt with your wife/girlfriend...
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Nolhekh on November 02, 2010, 05:59:00 AM
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?

Can you not understand and test the logic behind what they teach you?  Granted some things are hard to test, such as medicine or politics, but if the Government says the Earth is round, then provides figures for the earth's size, distance from the sun, rotation period, distance to the moon, etc.., then all it takes is a high-school math student to track the movements of the sun and moon, and see where they are vs. where they are expected to be based on the geometric model provided.  If someone wants to, they're free to create an alternate model, but I just say, good luck keeping it geometrically consistent with real observation.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Nolhekh on November 02, 2010, 06:03:00 AM
Because they are trying to convince the people of earth that it is round. My next post is going to be a 'lurk moar' one if you follow this line of debate.

Correction:  They are convincing people of earth that it is round.  (Wait are they aliens?)  They succeed because what they tell us is consistent with observation.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Slemon on November 02, 2010, 07:46:50 AM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?

Attack the science, not the sources. What is your reason for not trusting the government as a source?
Because they are trying to convince the people of earth that it is round. My next post is going to be a 'lurk moar' one if you follow this line of debate.

Do you have any reason to believe this? Please make an argument stand up on neutral ground. Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the government (something other than 'the Earth is not round because I think it's flat) then that is an extraordinarily poor line of reasoning.
Sure you can say Lurk Moar, but no one has ever come up with a satisfactory answer. So it's a pretty stupid thing to say.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 08:01:12 AM
I don't see any evidence that the Coriolis force exists in the thread ClockTower posted. I guess that's his argument done and dusted.

No double standard here, Wilmore.  Properties of the Coriolis Effect are well documented.  Aether and bendy light are not.  Unless you can cite a source that defines those properties, there is no way to either substantiate or refute any claims based on those theories.  I call that bad science. As a Zetetic, you should appreciate that.

I would argue that the essential properties of the Coriolis effect are no better documented than those of Aetheric Eddification. I genuinely doubt anyone here can demonstrate otherwise.

Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.
Please reference: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html (http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html) for one.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 08:28:59 AM
Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the government (something other than 'the Earth is not round because I think it's flat) then that is an extraordinarily poor line of reasoning.
To be more precise even the Governments don't know about the Conspiracy and about the true shape of the Earth. They are victims as all other people. It's The Conspiracy which feeds the false information and stays even above the all Governments. I guess all the world is united under The Conspiracy rulings.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Kira-SY on November 02, 2010, 08:46:30 AM
Zetetic methods are based on what you can observe yourself. So you can see. Check their experiments in the FAQ. Tom Bishop can tell you all the things you can see for yourself from shape of the sea to the way star distances can be accurately calculated. Its all stuff yu can verify for yourself. Not rely on others for. So enough of the silly unproven Coriolis business please.
Well, you don't understand it, so it is silly. Good to know. And you are quite a hypocrite as I see. Not rely on others for.. don't make ma laugh. Your all life depends on the others. So, drop your Zetetic stuff when you don't behave according to it. As for the Tom, there isn't any experiments or measurements which can be replicated by others like he does them. You try to do them at first and than come back and talk.
Zork, I can trust a milkman to bring me milk. I can trust a shop to stock food. But the whole point of FES is that you cannot trust the governments to deliver correct science. They have an ulterior motive. Would you trust BP with your beach? Some things deserve to be questioned. Others don't. Earth's shape, well what better thing to want to know for myself?

Attack the science, not the sources. What is your reason for not trusting the government as a source?
Because they are trying to convince the people of earth that it is round. My next post is going to be a 'lurk moar' one if you follow this line of debate.

Maybe you'd be interested in this:

Because the Earth is round, so a Flat Earth map is impossible.

Actually, this site fails in two main points, and all the explanations, theories and pseudoscience are hollow to my eyes because of those:

- Not a map
- The Conspiracy is able to shut up every scientist, cartographer, astronaut, student, book publisher, etc etc etc, but this site still exist! And they are always "showing the truth" in an unflawed way (in FE'ers opinion). And everyone, from everywhere, can register!

That means: If the earth was flat someone would have been funded or taken the work to map it successfully & The conspiracy do not exist, and without the conspiracy, the pics and vids and books are reliable.

You FE'ers have been giving silence for a couple of days now. Victory for RE.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 02, 2010, 09:09:35 AM
I would argue that the essential properties of the Coriolis effect are no better documented than those of Aetheric Eddification. I genuinely doubt anyone here can demonstrate otherwise.

Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.
Please reference: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html (http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html) for one.
[/quote]

I don't see any description of the essential properties of the 'Coriolis effect' on that page. I see a description of hypothetical observations and an equally hypothetical explanation.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 09:18:09 AM
Quote
I would argue that the essential properties of the Coriolis effect are no better documented than those of Aetheric Eddification. I genuinely doubt anyone here can demonstrate otherwise.

Oh, and just in case anyone's tempted, posting tonnes of quotes/links telling me about the Coriolis effect will not amount to such a demonstration. Make sure you read the above sentences carefully.
Please reference: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html (http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/foucault.html) for one.

I don't see any description of the essential properties of the 'Coriolis effect' on that page. I see a description of hypothetical observations and an equally hypothetical explanation.
The observations are not hypothetical. Indeed they are 'hands-on'. How does the description fail to describe the essential properties of the 'Coriolis Effect'?

Please show us the description of the essential properties of the Aetheric Eddification.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 09:26:18 AM
I don't see any description of the essential properties of the 'Coriolis effect' on that page.
Maybe because you haven't defined the "essential properties". But at least he Coriolis effect is well described. What it is, when it appears.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Slemon on November 02, 2010, 09:47:14 AM
Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the government (something other than 'the Earth is not round because I think it's flat) then that is an extraordinarily poor line of reasoning.
To be more precise even the Governments don't know about the Conspiracy and about the true shape of the Earth. They are victims as all other people. It's The Conspiracy which feeds the false information and stays even above the all Governments. I guess all the world is united under The Conspiracy rulings.

Have you got any evidence for the Conspiracy?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 10:01:20 AM
Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the government (something other than 'the Earth is not round because I think it's flat) then that is an extraordinarily poor line of reasoning.
To be more precise even the Governments don't know about the Conspiracy and about the true shape of the Earth. They are victims as all other people. It's The Conspiracy which feeds the false information and stays even above the all Governments. I guess all the world is united under The Conspiracy rulings.

Have you got any evidence for the Conspiracy?
If there would be any except the hiding of the true shape of the Earth then it would not be The Conspiracy anymore. I.E. if The Conspiracy is revealed then it would not be The Conspiracy anymore
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Slemon on November 02, 2010, 10:12:38 AM
Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the government (something other than 'the Earth is not round because I think it's flat) then that is an extraordinarily poor line of reasoning.
To be more precise even the Governments don't know about the Conspiracy and about the true shape of the Earth. They are victims as all other people. It's The Conspiracy which feeds the false information and stays even above the all Governments. I guess all the world is united under The Conspiracy rulings.

Have you got any evidence for the Conspiracy?
If there would be any except the hiding of the true shape of the Earth then it would not be The Conspiracy anymore. I.E. if The Conspiracy is revealed then it would not be The Conspiracy anymore

So, if there is no evidence for the Conspiracy, why is any official information unreliable?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 02, 2010, 10:15:36 AM
The observations are not hypothetical. Indeed they are 'hands-on'. How does the description fail to describe the essential properties of the 'Coriolis Effect'?

How on Earth are the examples given in that link 'hands on'?

Quote
Suppose someone put a pendulum above the South Pole and sets it swinging in a simple arc

www.rif.org

Please show us the description of the essential properties of the Aetheric Eddification.

Hey, you guys are the ones claiming to have described the essential properties of your theory. Back-up your big-talk.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Averti on November 02, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
buy an airplane. Fly it in a straight line directly to any location in the mid latitudes. You will not reach your destination if a straight path is taken. Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it, this will result in your course being shifted to the right in the N. Hemisphere, which will be easily identifiable when you partake in this hands on proof of the Coriolis effect.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 10:50:26 AM
The observations are not hypothetical. Indeed they are 'hands-on'. How does the description fail to describe the essential properties of the 'Coriolis Effect'?

How on Earth are the examples given in that link 'hands on'?

Quote
Suppose someone put a pendulum above the South Pole and sets it swinging in a simple arc

www.rif.org

Please show us the description of the essential properties of the Aetheric Eddification.

Hey, you guys are the ones claiming to have described the essential properties of your theory. Back-up your big-talk.

First, learn to read to the bottom of the page.

Quote
Our Foucault pendulum

at the School of Physics of The University of New South Wales is a "hands-on" version. There is no electromagnetic drive but, once started it will swing for several hours. Visitors are invited to start it swinging in a plane that is accurately defined by a fixed vertical wire and a vertical line on the wall. It is easy to see when the cable of the pendulum is swinging in this plane. The user then sets an indicator to show the time when it started. After a few minutes the plane of the pendulum precesses half a degree which is easy to see by alligning one eye in the defined vertical plane.

Second, please link to where we claimed "to have described the essential properties of [our] theory." If you could also link to where you asked us to "[describe] the essential properties of [our] theory" and the reason you would require that. We're just demonstrating that the verifiable, objective evidence supports our theory better than yours.

Reading really seems to be difficult for you.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 11:10:48 AM
Hey, you guys are the ones claiming to have described the essential properties of your theory. Back-up your big-talk.
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

Wikipedia also describes experiment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets

And there is yet nowhere anything about aetheric eddification except the the only statement from the Username - This is the angle that aether bends light when it passes through aether eddies, specifically that of the sun.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Averti on November 02, 2010, 12:11:15 PM
I definitely suggest the Plane experiment. Put your dignity where your mouths are and see how fast it takes you to get lost flying straight to the middle of "this isn't where I am supposed to be!?!"
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 01:46:32 PM
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 02:03:04 PM
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
That does not follow. You've mess up your logic there. Furthermore:

Please provide scientific verifiable objective evidence that "the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse".
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 02:12:36 PM
The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
Which heavenly bodies? And is there some permanent eclipse which continues every day 24h/7days at week?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 02:33:09 PM
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
That does not follow. You've mess up your logic there. Furthermore:

Please provide scientific verifiable objective evidence that "the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse".

Quote from: Maurice Allias; Nobel winner
"Finally during the total eclipses of the sun on June 30, 1954, and October 22, 1959, quite analogous deviations of the plane of oscillation of the paraconical pendulum were observed.

In fact, all these phenomena are quite inexplicable within the framework of the currently accepted theories.

With regard to all these results as well as to their analysis I can make a prediction: if, without interruption, for at least one month, in the same place and at the same time, observations of the movement of the paraconical pendulum are made, together with optical sightings such as those I made, as well as a repetition of the Michelson-Morley (1887) and Miller (1925) experiments, the purpose of which was to display the movement of the earth relatively to the "ether", it will be found that the effects observed by Miller in 1925 correspond to the anomalies in the movement of the paraconical pendulum and the anomalies of the optical sightings which I observed.

All my researches in theoretical and applied physics which, at first sight, appear to be remote from my main activity as an economist, have, in reality, enriched me with valuable experience.

These researches, which constantly presented all kinds of very great difficulties, have led me to reflect on the nature of our knowledge, the nature of experience and theory, the difficulties of experimentation and the interpretation of results, and the scientific method in general."
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 02:46:51 PM
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
That does not follow. You've mess up your logic there. Furthermore:

Please provide scientific verifiable objective evidence that "the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse".

Quote from: Maurice Allias; Nobel winner
"Finally during the total eclipses of the sun on June 30, 1954, and October 22, 1959, quite analogous deviations of the plane of oscillation of the paraconical pendulum were observed.

In fact, all these phenomena are quite inexplicable within the framework of the currently accepted theories.

With regard to all these results as well as to their analysis I can make a prediction: if, without interruption, for at least one month, in the same place and at the same time, observations of the movement of the paraconical pendulum are made, together with optical sightings such as those I made, as well as a repetition of the Michelson-Morley (1887) and Miller (1925) experiments, the purpose of which was to display the movement of the earth relatively to the "ether", it will be found that the effects observed by Miller in 1925 correspond to the anomalies in the movement of the paraconical pendulum and the anomalies of the optical sightings which I observed.

All my researches in theoretical and applied physics which, at first sight, appear to be remote from my main activity as an economist, have, in reality, enriched me with valuable experience.

These researches, which constantly presented all kinds of very great difficulties, have led me to reflect on the nature of our knowledge, the nature of experience and theory, the difficulties of experimentation and the interpretation of results, and the scientific method in general."
Are you saying that Allias's para-conical pendulum was a Foucault Pendulum? If so, please provide proof.

Are you claiming that Allias's observation during the eclipse is verifiable objective evidence? If so, please link to a peer-reviewed article stating such.

You seem to be just making things up fraudulently.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 03:04:15 PM
Are you saying that Allias's para-conical pendulum was a Foucault Pendulum? If so, please provide proof.

Experiments with Foucault Pendulums were made as well.   http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast06aug99_1/

Quote
Are you claiming that Allias's observation during the eclipse is verifiable objective evidence? If so, please link to a peer-reviewed article stating such.

The effect is even named and has been studied. I'm sure you're bright enough to figure out how to search on your own, but here is the first one that popped up for me.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0408/0408023.pdf

Quote
You seem to be just making things up fraudulently.

You are more stubborn than all FE people on this forum together.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 03:05:29 PM
As you would build the Focault pendulum and start experimenting with it on different hemispheres. Or do some other experiments.
But ...
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

The pendulum is clearly being affected by the heavenly bodies and not the alleged rotation of the earth. We know this as the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse which would not be the case if it were simply the result of a revolving earth.
That does not follow. You've mess up your logic there. Furthermore:

Please provide scientific verifiable objective evidence that "the pendulum is influenced by the eclipse".

Quote from: Maurice Allias; Nobel winner
"Finally during the total eclipses of the sun on June 30, 1954, and October 22, 1959, quite analogous deviations of the plane of oscillation of the paraconical pendulum were observed.

In fact, all these phenomena are quite inexplicable within the framework of the currently accepted theories.

With regard to all these results as well as to their analysis I can make a prediction: if, without interruption, for at least one month, in the same place and at the same time, observations of the movement of the paraconical pendulum are made, together with optical sightings such as those I made, as well as a repetition of the Michelson-Morley (1887) and Miller (1925) experiments, the purpose of which was to display the movement of the earth relatively to the "ether", it will be found that the effects observed by Miller in 1925 correspond to the anomalies in the movement of the paraconical pendulum and the anomalies of the optical sightings which I observed.

All my researches in theoretical and applied physics which, at first sight, appear to be remote from my main activity as an economist, have, in reality, enriched me with valuable experience.

These researches, which constantly presented all kinds of very great difficulties, have led me to reflect on the nature of our knowledge, the nature of experience and theory, the difficulties of experimentation and the interpretation of results, and the scientific method in general."
I kind of see what you meant earlier. But it does not show that pendulum is affected by heavenly bodies when there is no eclipse. It may show to you only and only that it is affected by something during the eclipse.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 03:08:47 PM
I kind of see what you meant earlier. But it does not show that pendulum is affected by heavenly bodies when there is no eclipse. It may show to you only and only that it is affected by something during the eclipse.

Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 03:10:31 PM
Are you saying that Allias's para-conical pendulum was a Foucault Pendulum? If so, please provide proof.

Experiments with Foucault Pendulums were made as well.   http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast06aug99_1/

Quote
Are you claiming that Allias's observation during the eclipse is verifiable objective evidence? If so, please link to a peer-reviewed article stating such.

The effect is even named and has been studied. I'm sure you're bright enough to figure out how to search on your own, but here is the first one that popped up for me.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0408/0408023.pdf

Quote
You seem to be just making things up fraudulently.

You are more stubborn than all FE people on this forum together.
From you first link we read:
Quote
But before the cause of the Allais effect can be determined, scientists first need to settle the question about whether a pendulum really does act differently during a solar eclipse.

So by your own evidence, we do not have VOE. Thanks for settling that.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 03:11:34 PM
I kind of see what you meant earlier. But it does not show that pendulum is affected by heavenly bodies when there is no eclipse. It may show to you only and only that it is affected by something during the eclipse.

Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Monster Fail. You err in simple logic.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 03:13:23 PM
So by your own evidence, we do not have VOE. Thanks for settling that.

I'm sure all the observations named in the paper I linked to were false. Feel free to write your own peer-reviewed rebuttal.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
So by your own evidence, we do not have VOE. Thanks for settling that.

I'm sure all the observations named in the paper I linked to were false. Feel free to write your own peer-reviewed rebuttal.
I find the summary of observation quite enough. It was great of you to find a succinct review for us. Its null conclusion made dismissing your folly all so easy. Just to repeat:
Quote
But before the cause of the Allais effect can be determined, scientists first need to settle the question about whether a pendulum really does act differently during a solar eclipse.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 03:24:26 PM
I kind of see what you meant earlier. But it does not show that pendulum is affected by heavenly bodies when there is no eclipse. It may show to you only and only that it is affected by something during the eclipse.

Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Of course there would. How in the name of the Earth you deduce that? The normal situation is without the eclipse and the eclipse brings in some unknown variables and because of that the pendulum is affected. And the speculations are(from your link) that the effect may have been caused even by the moving human masses and then some more other variables here, on the Earth.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 03:27:34 PM
I kind of see what you meant earlier. But it does not show that pendulum is affected by heavenly bodies when there is no eclipse. It may show to you only and only that it is affected by something during the eclipse.

Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Of course there would. How in the name of the Earth you deduce that? The normal situation is without the eclipse and the eclipse brings in some unknown variables and because of that the pendulum is affected. And the speculations are(from your link) that the effect may have been caused even by the moving human masses and then some more other variables here, on the Earth.
Good catch. I missed his error there. Thanks.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 03:49:58 PM
Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Of course there would.

I should have said, "If a spinning earth alone was responsible ..."  I apologize.

Quote
And the speculations are(from your link) that the effect may have been caused even by the moving human masses and then some more other variables here, on the Earth.

The published paper I linked to (I could link to more on the phenomenon, but you're as capable of searching as I) is titled "A Review of Conventional Explanations of Anomalous Observations During Solar Eclipses. It dismisses all those theories as inadequate. "...all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the observations either qualitatively or quantitatively..."
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 02, 2010, 04:22:23 PM
Either the heavenly bodies are effecting the pendulums or they are not. If a spinning earth was responsible for the pendulum movement there would be no anomaly.
Of course there would.

I should have said, "If a spinning earth alone was responsible ..."  I apologize.
Even if "a spinning earth alone is responsible" then there would be effect if some unknown forces come to play. Eclipse just disrupts the normal situation and who knows what may affects the pendulum. There is no way to deduce from that that some "heavenly bodies"(whatever they are, no one have elaborated on that) are affecting the pendulum.

Quote
And the speculations are(from your link) that the effect may have been caused even by the moving human masses and then some more other variables here, on the Earth.

The published paper I linked to (I could link to more on the phenomenon, but you're as capable of searching as I) is titled "A Review of Conventional Explanations of Anomalous Observations During Solar Eclipses. It dismisses all those theories as inadequate. "...all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the observations either qualitatively or quantitatively..."
It kind of don't dismiss them. Proper quote is:

Although, despite all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the observations either qualitatively or quantitatively, it is still possible that the reported anomalies will turn out to be due to a combination of some of these effects and instrumental errors. And, of course, there may be yet unidentified conventional causes which play a role.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 04:30:23 PM
The published paper I linked to (I could link to more on the phenomenon, but you're as capable of searching as I) is titled "A Review of Conventional Explanations of Anomalous Observations During Solar Eclipses. It dismisses all those theories as inadequate. "...all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the observations either qualitatively or quantitatively..."
It kind of don't dismiss them. Proper quote is:

Although, despite all proposed conventional explanations fail to explain the observations either qualitatively or quantitatively, it is still possible that the reported anomalies will turn out to be due to a combination of some of these effects and instrumental errors. And, of course, there may be yet unidentified conventional causes which play a role.
Zork, I love having you on the RE team.

Well, Ski, this looks to me like you intentionally misquoted the author to make your case. For shame.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 04:40:08 PM
Good news REers! We have definitive evidence that the effect the Ski would have us believe does not exist. Please read this email from one of the leading researchers to see that the results from the 1999 eclipse were lackluster. There clearly is not enough evidence to support Ski.

Please reference: http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/bl...oeverpaper.doc (http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/bl...oeverpaper.doc). Along with several marginal results, we read that he heard of:

Quote
a definitive 'null' result from the Max Planck Institute using an atomic clock during the eclipse, which saw no significant deviations from normal
.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 05:13:03 PM
There are literally dozens of observations from around the world in peer-reviewed papers regarding pendulum anomalies and you pick one hearsay report of an atomic clock that showed no "significant" deviation, whatever that means in this context.

The following article lists several observations and citations.
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf074/sf074a05.htm
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 05:22:03 PM
There are literally dozens of observations from around the world in peer-reviewed papers regarding pendulum anomalies and you pick one hearsay report of an atomic clock that showed no "significant" deviation, whatever that means in this context.

The following article lists several observations and citations.
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf074/sf074a05.htm
Please reference one peer-reviewed paper regarding pendulum anomalies that concludes that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.

By the way, if you don't know what "no significant deviation" means in this context, you really should study statistics before debating such a scientific topic.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 05:31:39 PM

Please reference one peer-reviewed paper regarding pendulum anomalies that concludes that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v3/i4/p823_1

Quote
By the way, if you don't know what "no significant deviation" means in this context, you really should study statistics before debating such a scientific topic.

I don't know what "significant deviation" in regards to an atomic clock would have with pendulums, no.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 05:54:13 PM

Please reference one peer-reviewed paper regarding pendulum anomalies that concludes that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v3/i4/p823_1
I see no conclusion that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
Quote
Quote
By the way, if you don't know what "no significant deviation" means in this context, you really should study statistics before debating such a scientific topic.

I don't know what "significant deviation" in regards to an atomic clock would have with pendulums, no.

You might consider that the x-axis is time of the observation. The y would be the deviation in distance of the bob. The hypothesis is that the y is related to the time of eclipses.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 06:03:45 PM
I see no conclusion that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
Quote
www.rif.org
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: General Disarray on November 02, 2010, 06:05:30 PM
I see no conclusion that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
Quote
www.rif.org

So you must resort to insults when you are losing the argument rather than actually support your position, I see.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 06:06:14 PM
I see no conclusion that Foucault Pendulums behave abnormally.
www.rif.org

I challenge you. Quote that conclusion, in particular, that FPs behave abnormally.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 06:15:43 PM

Quote
During the solar eclipse of 7 March 1970, readings were taken and recorded electronically of the times required for the torsion pendulum to rotate through a given fixed part of its path, involving both clockwise and counterclockwise motions, on its first swing from rest. Significant variations in these times were observed during the course of the eclipse as well as in the hours just preceding and just following the eclipse itself.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 06:23:45 PM

Quote
During the solar eclipse of 7 March 1970, readings were taken and recorded electronically of the times required for the torsion pendulum to rotate through a given fixed part of its path, involving both clockwise and counterclockwise motions, on its first swing from rest. Significant variations in these times were observed during the course of the eclipse as well as in the hours just preceding and just following the eclipse itself.

You fail. There's no conclusion in that 29-year-old quote.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 06:27:46 PM
So your conclusion is that they wrote a peer-reviewed paper to say the observations weren't anomalous despite "significant variations"?

Here's a more recent paper for you:

A confirmation of the Allais and Jeverdan-Rusu-Antonescu effects during the solar eclipse from 22 September 2006 , and the quantization of behaviour of pendulum
V. A. Popescu, D. Olenici
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 06:33:44 PM
So your conclusion is that they wrote a peer-reviewed paper to say the observations weren't anomalous despite "significant variations"?

Here's a more recent paper for you:

A confirmation of the Allais and Jeverdan-Rusu-Antonescu effects during the solar eclipse from 22 September 2006 , and the quantization of behaviour of pendulum
V. A. Popescu, D. Olenici
I don't conclude that FPs behave abnormally based on inconclusive datasets. Why do you? What scientist agrees with you that FPs behave abnormally?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 06:35:03 PM
Do you know what the Allais or Jeverdan-Rusu-Antonescu effect are?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 06:44:42 PM
Do you know what the Allais or Jeverdan-Rusu-Antonescu effect are?
Yes. Do you have a scientist you concludes that there is such an effect?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 06:49:36 PM
Certainly Maurice Allais did. As do several people who have written papers confirming the effect.

Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 07:00:35 PM
Certainly Maurice Allais did. As do several people who have written papers confirming the effect.
You're confusing the scientific effort to report observations with the scientific analysis of the data. We need enough well-designed, well-recorded variances linked with the eclipse (or some other alignment) to make the conclusion.

Pointing us to an observation that is (marginally) significant doesn't show the conclusion, especially with NASA and NIST saying that they don't see the variation.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 07:12:40 PM
Quote from: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000APS..APRP20015K
The Foucault Pendulum, which tracks the Earth's rotation, has exhibited peculiar movements during the time of a solar eclipse. These movements have been known for some 50 years. However, so far no explanation has been presented to explain the movements.

The question is why is it occurring?

Incidentally, NASA never released the 1999 data on the worldwide experiment(s). Why is that? Dr. David Noever (Rhodes scholar, and a leading theoretical physicist concerning gravity for NASA who headed the experiment) later left NASA after the results have disappeared -- Why?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000APS..APRP20015K
The Foucault Pendulum, which tracks the Earth's rotation, has exhibited peculiar movements during the time of a solar eclipse. These movements have been known for some 50 years. However, so far no explanation has been presented to explain the movements.

The question is why is it occurring?

Incidentally, NASA never released the 1999 data on the worldwide experiment(s). Why is that? Dr. David Noever (Rhodes scholar, and a leading theoretical physicist concerning gravity for NASA who headed the experiment) later left NASA after the results have disappeared -- Why?
No, the question is: is it occurring?

I already provided the email on the 1999 data. Clearly it's inconclusive.

I infer Noever found that he didn't have anything worth publishing.

Why don't you friend Dr. David Noever on Facebook and ask him why he left NASA?

By the way, I looked over his publications. He never was a leading theoretical physicist concerning gravity for NASA. Will you please stop making things up?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 07:48:14 PM
The article which you "cited" was written before the experiment. How, pray tell did you provide the data? It only proves you didn't read the article.

Noever has a doctorate from Oxford in theoretical physics. He headed the Allais experiment in 1999. He gave interviews on gravitational sheilding, and according to Wired, "He seemed to be the key figure trying to replicate Podkletnov's work."  Podkletnov being Dr Yevgeny Podkletnov who claims to have invented an anti-gravity device.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 08:06:59 PM
The article which you "cited" was written before the experiment. How, pray tell did you provide the data? It only proves you didn't read the article.

Noever has a doctorate from Oxford in theoretical physics. He headed the Allais experiment in 1999. He gave interviews on gravitational sheilding, and according to Wired, "He seemed to be the key figure trying to replicate Podkletnov's work."  Podkletnov being Dr Yevgeny Podkletnov who claims to have invented an anti-gravity device.
No, the email was after the experiments. Do pay attention.

Good news REers! We have definitive evidence that the effect the Ski would have us believe does not exist. Please read this email from one of the leading researchers to see that the results from the 1999 eclipse were lackluster. There clearly is not enough evidence to support Ski.

Please reference: http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/bl...oeverpaper.doc (http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/bl...oeverpaper.doc). Along with several marginal results, we read that he heard of:

Quote
a definitive 'null' result from the Max Planck Institute using an atomic clock during the eclipse, which saw no significant deviations from normal
.
So you want to quote wired.com as a scientific source? Okay, you lose all credibility.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 08:13:34 PM
Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide a working link for the email.

If you're suggesting Wired did not interview Dr. Noever and meet him at the lab exploring various anti-gravity devices NASA had constructed, please let me know your reasons for doing so.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 08:32:06 PM
Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide a working link for the email.

If you're suggesting Wired did not interview Dr. Noever and meet him at the lab exploring various anti-gravity devices NASA had constructed, please let me know your reasons for doing so.
Try: http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/noever/noeverpaper.doc (http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/noever/noeverpaper.doc).

I'm not suggesting that. I am saying that Wired is not a scientific journal.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 02, 2010, 08:52:11 PM
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Quote from: http://www.windows2universe.org/headline_universe/gravity_eclipse.html&edu=high
Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 09:42:10 PM
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Quote from: http://www.windows2universe.org/headline_universe/gravity_eclipse.html&edu=high
Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community.

<yawn>
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 02, 2010, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: http://www.windows2universe.org/headline_universe/gravity_eclipse.html&edu=high
the current results have stumped the scientific community
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 02, 2010, 10:26:46 PM
Quote from: http://www.windows2universe.org/headline_universe/gravity_eclipse.html&edu=high
the current results have stumped the scientific community

So? Did you forget that applying the Scientific Method a scientist doesn't mind getting stumped? But the Scientific Community treats as a crackpot anyone who fails to get verifiable objective evidence before making conclusions.

For example, I didn't take your claim that you saw people playing Frisbee across Monterey Bay with your magical telescope as anything more than a lie since no one could reproduce it.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 03, 2010, 12:48:25 AM
More information from the site:

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/zhou/zhou-3.pdf

It's a treasure trove of Allais information:

Quote from: http://www.windows2universe.org/headline_universe/gravity_eclipse.html&edu=high
Pendulums were set up in various countries, with some in the path of the eclipse and others not. Some of the preliminary results are interesting.

Video cameras taped the pendulum movements before, during and after the solar eclipse. Although no change was viewed in the pendulums outside of the eclipse path, two different sites in Europe revealed exciting results. These researchers, which were inside the path of the eclipse, discovered a change in the pendulum's path. If the results are correct, then another mystery was just created. Why would gravity change only in the areas under the eclipse' path?

"We haven't looked at their videos in detail yet, and we're not going to reach any conclusions just by eyeballing them," says Koczor, who's trying to organize the mountains of data. "If, in fact, pendulums go crazy during eclipses it suggests we don't really have an understanding of gravity and the intersection of different bodies."

Koczor says much of the data still needs to be analyzed, but the current results have stumped the scientific community.

And what the conclusion is? Only that something during the eclipse affects the pendulum. We don't know what and it absolutely doesn't tell us that the earth isn't rotating. You can go on and on about that effect but the fact is that it doesn't disprove the rotating Earth.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 03, 2010, 06:40:46 AM
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 03, 2010, 07:12:56 AM
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.
Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies it at least has a map and the working model. Which as we all know the FET is never going to get.

EDIT: As for the Coriolis force/effect let's not make it about the Earth shape for a moment.  Coriolis force is there, its a fact. Instead of bitching about it wouldn't it be better if the FE side incorporates it in its models and tries to explain it.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: General Disarray on November 03, 2010, 08:12:33 AM
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.

However no one has shown that those "anomolies" and inconsistencies conclusively indicate that the earth is flat.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 03, 2010, 11:40:36 AM
What we know is that the RET is full of anomolies and inconsistencies, however high & mighty its advocates behave.

At least RET has a reasonable and consistent model for sunrises and sunsets.  Let me know when FET decides once and for all if it's because of bendy light, aetherific edification or a creative interpretation of perspective.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 03, 2010, 12:46:11 PM
At least RET has a reasonable and consistent model for sunrises and sunsets.  Let me know when FET decides once and for all if it's because of bendy light, aetherific edification or a creative interpretation of perspective.

This thread is not about how FET is no more divided than RET. It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies. I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted). You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 03, 2010, 12:55:18 PM
It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies.

Full of anomalies?  Other than the eclipse anomaly, what other anomalies is the Coriolis Force full of?

I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted).

There is a difference between wrong and incomplete.

You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.

Does FET have a better and/or more complete explanation for the observed effects attributed to the Coriolis Force?  If not, then, regardless of it's inconsistencies, the RET explanation remains more successful than the FET explanation.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 03, 2010, 02:23:29 PM
This thread is not about how FET is no more divided than RET. It is about the Coriolis force, and everyone here seems to be of the view that the RET explanation is full of anomolies.

I'm with markjo. What anomalies? And where did your spell checker go, it's the second time you write "anomolies"

I therefore submit that the RE explanation is probably wrong, and at least incomplete (as RE'ers have admitted). You guys should therefore stop bringing it up like it's some kind of RE sucess story.
It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it. You are kind of overly vague and don't bring anything specific out. Just "it is wrong. incomplete, full of anomalies". What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Lord Wilmore on November 03, 2010, 02:48:20 PM
And where did your spell checker go, it's the second time you write "anomolies"

it's the second time you write "anomolies"

::)

It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it . . . What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?

Uh...

Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies

You know, remembering a post you wrote earlier today is not a lot to ask. You either agree with the first post and disagree with the second, or vice-versa. A little consistency would be nice.

Ski has presented evidence, and I haven't seen a single one of you offer any substantive criticism of his sources or their work. These are RE scientists, working for RET, and yet you're all just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing has happened. Nobody has presented evidence of the coriolis effect in this thread. What has been presented is evidence that there are serious anomalies in the RET explanation.

Given that this topic was supposed to be a demonstration of the Earth's sphericity, I'd say this is another win for FE.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 03, 2010, 03:14:33 PM
it's the second time you write "anomolies"

::)

Give me a break, spell checker won't correct these kind of mistakes.

It is well explained and quite certainly not wrong. About incomplete part I don't get it . . . What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?

Uh...

Who has ever claimed that its perfect and we know absolutely all about it? But with its anomalies and inconsistencies

You know, remembering a post you wrote earlier today is not a lot to ask. You either agree with the first post and disagree with the second, or vice-versa. A little consistency would be nice.
The last one was in context of the RE as whole. The first one is about the Coriolis force. Don't take two different things, put them together and ask for consistence.

Ski has presented evidence, and I haven't seen a single one of you offer any substantive criticism of his sources or their work.
These are RE scientists, working for RET, and yet you're all just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending nothing has happened. Nobody has presented evidence of the coriolis effect in this thread. What has been presented is evidence that there are serious anomalies in the RET explanation.
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No. It is just one anomaly in specific situation. And that isn't what your claim was. You claimed that Coriolis force explanation is full of anomalies, it is probably wrong and at least incomplete. I ask again - What is wrong? What is missing? What anomalies?
And evidence about Coriolis effect was presented.
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0325551/zeugs/WirbelInDerBadewanne.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html - Vorticity, Part 1

Wikipedia also describes experiment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Thork on November 03, 2010, 03:23:49 PM
buy an airplane. Fly it in a straight line directly to any location in the mid latitudes. You will not reach your destination if a straight path is taken. Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it, this will result in your course being shifted to the right in the N. Hemisphere, which will be easily identifiable when you partake in this hands on proof of the Coriolis effect.

I haven't been following this thread for a few days but this caught my eye. The earth will not move under you. You do not need to adjust for Coriolis. If the earth were round and rotating, the air around the earth moves with it. This argument is akin to saying get into a helicopter and hover for a few hours. You will not land near where you took off as the earth spins. It is also if you think about it, like saying flying east will be quicker than flying west because the ground moves under you, but you fly through air, a medium and that moves with you. When flying you are in a body of air as a stick is in the stream. If earth spins it takes the air with it. And that being so, you move with it. I will tell you now, pilots do not compensate for Coriolis in aircraft.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101173751AAAXMck
The best answer isn't actually the best answer, as he doesn't nail the question directly. The second answer is the best. Note the username.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 03, 2010, 03:45:41 PM
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101173751AAAXMck
The best answer isn't actually the best answer, as he doesn't nail the question directly. The second answer is the best. Note the username.
Excellent source. Let's agree that this guy is right. He said:

Quote
If the Earth is rotating (which it is), ...
/FES

Thanks!
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: vhu9644 on November 03, 2010, 08:45:11 PM
if i remember correctly, airplanes adjust for the winds.  not all are caused by the coreolis effect
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: EnglshGentleman on November 03, 2010, 09:37:07 PM
Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it

This means that if I get a hot air ballon and hover I will end up going around world in 24 hrs!  YAY!!!!
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 03, 2010, 09:42:20 PM
Try it yourself, either get a pilots license or make friends with a pilot, and do it. you will not reach your destination if you take a straight line course because the earth will continue rotating as you fly above it

This means that if I get a hot air ballon and hover I will end up going around world in 24 hrs!  YAY!!!!
non sequitur. You'll note Averti said to take a straight line course.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 04, 2010, 04:39:36 PM
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No.

It shows that the heavens clearly influence the pendulums. Which is categorically denied or inexplicable by mainstream RE science, yet is the very thing FET affirms in it's explanation of the Coriolis effect.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 04, 2010, 05:25:37 PM
I see, you play the Ski card. Anyone isn't sticking their fingers to ears. Ski just pointed out that there is anomaly in specific case. What about it? Does that makes the Coriolis effect go away? Disproves it? Proves that the Earth doesn't rotate? No.

It shows that the heavens clearly influence the pendulums. Which is categorically denied or inexplicable by mainstream RE science, yet is the very thing FET affirms in it's explanation of the Coriolis effect.
How does it show that heavens influence the pendulum? Pendulum works most of the time fine under the heavens. It only shows that something(no one knows yet what) has some influence on the pendulum during the eclipse. And nobody denies it and FET has nothing to do with it. FET doesn't even explain the Coriolis force. Also the effect was discovered by RE scientists.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 04, 2010, 08:01:59 PM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: General Disarray on November 04, 2010, 08:23:18 PM
I see you are confusing "is entirely responsible for" with "has an effect on".
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on November 04, 2010, 08:24:25 PM
Or, their movements could be related without either in any way being the cause of the other.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 05, 2010, 02:24:06 AM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
You are now talking about FE model. Your "heavens" (whatever it is) may be the cause there but the anomaly is no way to say something decisively about the shape of the Earth. In RE the Coriolis force is because of rotation and the anomaly is because of something unknown. In FE the Coriolis force is because of "heavens"  :-\ and thereby the eclipse can have some effect on the pendulum but the cause is also unknown. In conclusion there is nothing which indicates the shape of the Earth.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 05, 2010, 06:11:28 AM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.
What force causes this rotation? Gravity? The mass of the FP is affected by gravity?

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator and sweep out an arc predicted by physics under the RE's rotation? Can FE make a sound prediction based on physics? Why would the heavens drag along the pendulum?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 05, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.

Quote
Can FE make a sound prediction based on physics? Why would the heavens drag along the pendulum?
Clearly some sort of "gravitation", although perhaps not in the classical sense.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 05, 2010, 05:40:55 PM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.
Why would the heavens do that?  ???
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 05, 2010, 09:51:47 PM
I don't know. I haven't asked them.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 05, 2010, 09:56:40 PM
If the heavens do not affect the pendulum, why is there such an anomaly? Of course the pendulum works under the heavens. The rotation of the heavens are what cause the rotation of pendulum and the coriolis effect.

Why does the FP rotate in the opposite direction south of the Equator
Because the heavens rotate the opposite direction south of the equator.

Really? Do you have any evidence? From my location the heavens (the Sun, the Moon, and the stars) all move consistently from east to west overhead. Are you maybe on a different planet?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 05, 2010, 10:05:09 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 05, 2010, 10:09:03 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Stars move in the same direction to all observers on Earth. Obviously you've failed to account for the direction the observer faces when talking about clockwise/anti-clockwise manner. Once you are consistent, the Sun, the Moon and the stars move east to west above the pole stars (and back west to east under the pole stars). I challenge you to provide one example to the contrary.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 05, 2010, 10:12:04 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Stars move in the same direction to all observers on Earth. Obviously you've failed to account for the direction the observer faces when talking about clockwise/anti-clockwise manner.

Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane and in a counterclockwise manner in the northern. What is your problem of observation?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ClockTower on November 05, 2010, 10:21:40 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Stars move in the same direction to all observers on Earth. Obviously you've failed to account for the direction the observer faces when talking about clockwise/anti-clockwise manner.

Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane and in a counterclockwise manner in the northern. What is your problem of observation?
They don't move in opposite directions if the observer is facing the same direction. What is your problem with understanding this? I've said it quite clearly.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: berny_74 on November 05, 2010, 10:29:59 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Stars move in the same direction to all observers on Earth. Obviously you've failed to account for the direction the observer faces when talking about clockwise/anti-clockwise manner.

Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane and in a counterclockwise manner in the northern. What is your problem of observation?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42781.0 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42781.0)

I did a whole topic on it and it was never answered.

If you are stating the go opposite directions between the north and south hemiplanes while using the same direction as a point of reference then at the equator you should see some stars go clockwise and some stars going counterclockwise - provided in your statement of opposite directions you are observing from a fixed direction (ie north)

Berny
time to go to bed
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: ERTW on November 05, 2010, 11:55:16 PM
I don't see how the first thread constitutes conclusive evidence of anything. The potential effects of Aetheric Eddification combined with innaccurate cartographic and geographic assumptions based on a RE would easily account for the scenarios he presented. You'll have to do better.

How exactly can any thread constitute evidence of anything? You can't generate evidence through debate. Posting pictures of evidence is about as much as you can hope to accomplish, but this forum specifically rejects photographic evidence. Even using the word evidence on this forum is laughable. Anyone who expects anything more than a semantic debate and perhaps an occasional subtle math error to pick apart is going to be disappointed.
Anyone who tries to present evidence is countered with a simplified thought experiment. There is no counter evidence given. The thread where dozens of pictures of sunken ships were posted was countered with hypotheses like "its waves" and "its perspective", yet no evidence to support either counter hypothesis was ever given. In the end the pictures can simply dismissed because they are pictures that prove a round Earth, and those are not accepted here!
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 06, 2010, 05:56:59 AM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane.
How did you ever detect that the stars are the ones that move?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: markjo on November 06, 2010, 05:51:06 PM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane. This is the kind of issue that consistently makes me believe you argue everything before you even try to think about it.
Stars move in the same direction to all observers on Earth. Obviously you've failed to account for the direction the observer faces when talking about clockwise/anti-clockwise manner.

Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane and in a counterclockwise manner in the northern. What is your problem of observation?

Actually, stars move in a clockwise manner when the observer is facing north and counter clockwise when facing south, regardless of which hemiplane the observer is in.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: faceonfire on November 06, 2010, 07:37:51 PM
Can't he work on his stupidity and ignorance on his own?
Okay, I've got to admit that's a pretty good zing.

-stupid thing to say seven pages later I notice But I always have to appreciate a good zinger.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 06, 2010, 10:41:50 PM
I am, ever, most humbly and obediently, your faithful servant,

Ski
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 07, 2010, 02:10:21 AM
Stars move in a clockwise manner in the southern hemiplane.
How did you ever detect that the stars are the ones that move?
Ski? How did you ever detect that the stars are the ones that move?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 07, 2010, 09:42:31 AM
It doesn't look like the camera is moving, ergo...

#!
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: faceonfire on November 07, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
It doesn't look like the camera is moving, ergo...

#!
or it's evidence the planet is moving?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Ski on November 07, 2010, 09:54:27 AM
Possibly, yes.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: zork on November 07, 2010, 10:00:14 AM
It doesn't look like the camera is moving, ergo...

#!
But who says that the ground below the camera isn't moving. So, there is nothing concrete about the moving of the stars.
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: faceonfire on November 07, 2010, 10:14:28 AM
I dont get it- in the FE model dosen't eveyrthing have to rotate around the eath? Does nobody understand the vastness of space and the sheer numbers of stars  that would need to spin around in circles above an insignificant rock ball? and why is it even flat? The moon is round, isn;t it? can't you tell by the phases of the moon that you can see from everywhere that its not just a cardboard cutout facing us?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Around And About on February 15, 2011, 01:26:03 PM
How exactly can any thread constitute evidence of anything? You can't generate evidence through debate. Posting pictures of evidence is about as much as you can hope to accomplish, but this forum specifically rejects photographic evidence. Even using the word evidence on this forum is laughable. Anyone who expects anything more than a semantic debate and perhaps an occasional subtle math error to pick apart is going to be disappointed.
Anyone who tries to present evidence is countered with a simplified thought experiment. There is no counter evidence given. The thread where dozens of pictures of sunken ships were posted was countered with hypotheses like "its waves" and "its perspective", yet no evidence to support either counter hypothesis was ever given. In the end the pictures can simply dismissed because they are pictures that prove a round Earth, and those are not accepted here!

That pretty much sums it all up. But still, isn't it entertaining?
Title: Re: Given two threads, we now know that the Earth is round
Post by: Raist on February 16, 2011, 10:15:47 PM
How exactly can any thread constitute evidence of anything? You can't generate evidence through debate. Posting pictures of evidence is about as much as you can hope to accomplish, but this forum specifically rejects photographic evidence. Even using the word evidence on this forum is laughable. Anyone who expects anything more than a semantic debate and perhaps an occasional subtle math error to pick apart is going to be disappointed.
Anyone who tries to present evidence is countered with a simplified thought experiment. There is no counter evidence given. The thread where dozens of pictures of sunken ships were posted was countered with hypotheses like "its waves" and "its perspective", yet no evidence to support either counter hypothesis was ever given. In the end the pictures can simply dismissed because they are pictures that prove a round Earth, and those are not accepted here!

That pretty much sums it all up. But still, isn't it entertaining?

This thread is from november. Please don't post in very old threads to simply agree with someone.