The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Janktrio on November 25, 2009, 08:57:17 AM

Title: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Janktrio on November 25, 2009, 08:57:17 AM
I've heard many FEs, when dealing with undeniable evidence for a round earth, blame the conspiracy. The conspiracy being that the government and NASA photoshop pictures and pretend that the earth is round. However, what type of government would waste time and money supporting a lie that the earth is round? What benefit would this belief in the round earth bring them? Come on FEs, answer this.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 09:01:54 AM
The combined budgets of the world's space agencies would be the benefit.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: lolololololol on November 25, 2009, 09:06:31 AM
The combined budgets of the world's space agencies would be the benefit.


What proof is there being world space agencies?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 09:17:48 AM

What proof is there being world space agencies?

Do the space agencies exist?  Is that your question? I suppose one could go around and look to see if they exist.  NASA claims to be located in Houston, TX, USA.  The European Space Agency is located, according to their website, at:
EAC, the European Astronauts Centre in Cologne, Germany;
ESAC, the European Space Astronomy Centre, in Villanueva de la Canada, Madrid, Spain;
ESOC, the European Space Operations Centre in Darmstadt, Germany;
ESRIN, the ESA centre for Earth Observation, in Frascati, near Rome, Italy;
ESTEC, the European Space Research and Technology Centre, Noordwijk, the Netherlands.

As for the others, I suppose you can look them up for yourself and then check to see if they're real or not. Let us know what you find out.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Janktrio on November 25, 2009, 09:23:26 AM
Okay, the combined budgets of the space agtencies. But you still didn't answer my question. I asked why would the government do this, not how. Why would the government support the conspiracy in the first place? What benefit would it bring them?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 09:25:26 AM
the combined budgets = a great deal of money
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: lolololololol on November 25, 2009, 09:28:04 AM
You still arent answering the question. He is asking how they BENIFIT. they dont even make money even if they did put their money together. In the end, by your statement, they are making all this up just to waste billions of dollars.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Janktrio on November 25, 2009, 09:33:01 AM
the combined budgets = a great deal of money

Yes, that's nice and all but a combined budget they would be spending on creating evidence for a round earth i.e. they're losing money. Still no benefit from supporting the supposed round earth theory. Yup, I've just about completley destroyed the only excuse you FEs have for your flat earth theory. Face the truth, the earth is round. Or you can blame another conspiracy for this conspiracy.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 09:37:19 AM
You still arent answering the question. He is asking how they BENIFIT. they dont even make money even if they did put their money together. In the end, by your statement, they are making all this up just to waste billions of dollars.

If you want to believe that the combined budgets would not be a large incentive, of course that's your privilege.  I believe I have answered the question.  It's entirely up to you to accept it or not. 
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 10:33:13 AM
the combined budgets = a great deal of money

And they don't spend that money on research, materials, contractors...

No.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Janktrio on November 25, 2009, 12:56:29 PM
You still arent answering the question. He is asking how they BENIFIT. they dont even make money even if they did put their money together. In the end, by your statement, they are making all this up just to waste billions of dollars.

If you want to believe that the combined budgets would not be a large incentive, of course that's your privilege.  I believe I have answered the question.  It's entirely up to you to accept it or not. 

You still don't seem to understand the fact that by pooling their money they would have to spend it all to create evidence of a round earth i.e. photoshopping pictures practically everyday. They aren't keeping any of the money, it's all going to be used to create evidence of a round earth. Again, they haven't gained anything, now, actualy answer the question or admit that you're wrong.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 02:13:10 PM
You still don't seem to understand the fact that by pooling their money they would have to spend it all to create evidence of a round earth i.e. photoshopping pictures practically everyday. They aren't keeping any of the money, it's all going to be used to create evidence of a round earth. Again, they haven't gained anything, now, actualy answer the question or admit that you're wrong.

What do you suppose costs more, a space ship or a copy of photoshop?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 02:18:01 PM
You still don't seem to understand the fact that by pooling their money they would have to spend it all to create evidence of a round earth i.e. photoshopping pictures practically everyday. They aren't keeping any of the money, it's all going to be used to create evidence of a round earth. Again, they haven't gained anything, now, actualy answer the question or admit that you're wrong.

What do you suppose costs more, a space ship or a copy of photoshop?

Given that photoshop wasn't around in 1969, I'd say "photoshop".
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 02:24:54 PM
You still don't seem to understand the fact that by pooling their money they would have to spend it all to create evidence of a round earth i.e. photoshopping pictures practically everyday. They aren't keeping any of the money, it's all going to be used to create evidence of a round earth. Again, they haven't gained anything, now, actualy answer the question or admit that you're wrong.

What do you suppose costs more, a space ship or a copy of photoshop?

Given that photoshop wasn't around in 1969, I'd say "photoshop".

Fish-Eye lenses and studio mosaics were around in 1969.

Photoshop is really just a way to do things which have been manually done in studios since the 1920's.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 02:29:06 PM
Fish-Eye lenses and studio mosaics were around in 1969.

Fish eye lenses and studio mosaics(???) are not photoshop.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 02:34:44 PM
Fish-Eye lenses and studio mosaics were around in 1969.

Fish eye lenses and studio mosaics(???) are not photoshop.

All of those tools in photoshop are digital analogies for the tools in art studios.

Photoshop is the poor man's art studio.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 02:37:08 PM
Fish-Eye lenses and studio mosaics were around in 1969.

Fish eye lenses and studio mosaics(???) are not photoshop.

All of those tools in photoshop are digital analogies for the tools in art studios.

Like the magnetic lasso?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 02:37:45 PM
Like the magnetic lasso?

Manually done with a scalpel.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 02:39:16 PM
Like the magnetic lasso?

Manually done with a scalpel.

A scalpel that sticks to the contours of an image?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 02:42:37 PM
Like the magnetic lasso?

Manually done with a scalpel.

A scalpel that sticks to the contours of an image?

The artist does that.

See: manually
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 02:45:07 PM
The artist does that.

So it's not analogous at all. Thanks for taking part!
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 02:53:12 PM
It is the same.  If I hadn't meticulously cut around so many images with an exacto knife under a magnifying glass I couldn't appreciate the photoshop lasso so much.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 03:22:08 PM
It is the same.  If I hadn't meticulously cut around so many images with an exacto knife under a magnifying glass I couldn't appreciate the photoshop lasso so much.

There is no art studio tool that reproduces the effect of a magnetic lasso.

Protip: "Doing it yourself" is not a tool.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 04:15:59 PM
The exacto knife is the tool.  Did you think I did with my fingernails?
And it takes hours and hours to do it manually, for instance a typeface.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: markjo on November 25, 2009, 04:35:19 PM
You still don't seem to understand the fact that by pooling their money they would have to spend it all to create evidence of a round earth i.e. photoshopping pictures practically everyday. They aren't keeping any of the money, it's all going to be used to create evidence of a round earth. Again, they haven't gained anything, now, actualy answer the question or admit that you're wrong.

What do you suppose costs more, a space ship or a copy of photoshop?

Digitally manipulated photos can almost always be detected by forensic techniques.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=5-ways-to-spot-a-fake
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 04:37:47 PM
Digitally manipulated photos can almost always be detected by forensic techniques.

What if the forensic is the one making the photo?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 04:42:37 PM
The exacto knife is the tool.  Did you think I did with my fingernails?

Is your exacto knife magnetic? Does it stick to the contours of an image?

And it takes hours and hours to do it manually, for instance a typeface.

If only there were some kind of tool that could do it a lot quicker. Hmm.

What if the forensic is the one making the photo?

But anyone can apply those techniques. Are we all in the conspiracy now?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Mrs. Peach on November 25, 2009, 04:49:36 PM

Is your exacto knife magnetic? Does it stick to the contours of an image?

If only there were some kind of tool that could do it a lot quicker. Hmm.


The exacto knife did what I made it do.  And yes, it is quicker, that's why I use a CorelDraw program now. 
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 25, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
The exacto knife did what I made it do.

Exactly. You had to make it do it.

AMAZING MOSQUITO KILLER! GUARANTEED TO WORK 100%

Instructions:

1.Place the mosquito between the two pieces of wood provided
2. Squash mosquito.

And yes, it is quicker, that's why I use a CorelDraw program now. 

Amazing.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: markjo on November 25, 2009, 06:46:24 PM
Digitally manipulated photos can almost always be detected by forensic techniques.

What if the forensic is the one making the photo?

There's always someone smarter and better that will be able to detect the fake.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 07:01:12 PM
Digitally manipulated photos can almost always be detected by forensic techniques.

What if the forensic is the one making the photo?

There's always someone smarter and better that will be able to detect the fake.

http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e

Do you mean like how this fake was detected?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: markjo on November 25, 2009, 07:09:25 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e

Do you mean like how this fake was detected?

Until you can provide a control photograph for comparison, your "analysis" remains inconclusive.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 25, 2009, 11:08:46 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e

Do you mean like how this fake was detected?

Until you can provide a control photograph for comparison, your "analysis" remains inconclusive.

Feel free to take a look at the sun if you think that it is inconsistently bright.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: RMcLeod on November 26, 2009, 01:01:05 AM
Okay so the conspiracy theory exists so governments can tax the people more in order to fund the "space agencies". What was the benefit in the centuries before space agencies? I'm pretty sure NASA ESA etc didn't exist at the time of Rowbotham.

If the space agencies exist purely to suck up public money that's an awful lot of people involved in the conspiracy, we're talking 1000's of companies that hold contracts with the agencies, don't forget They don't build their rockets, satellites and rovers themselves.

What about all the physicists, universities and other organisations that spend combined millions on research. Are they all in on it too, or are they just stupid?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 26, 2009, 03:28:11 AM
Quote
Okay so the conspiracy theory exists so governments can tax the people more in order to fund the "space agencies". What was the benefit in the centuries before space agencies? I'm pretty sure NASA ESA etc didn't exist at the time of Rowbotham.

People were mistaken about the shape of the earth. See: Earth Not a Globe

Quote
If the space agencies exist purely to suck up public money that's an awful lot of people involved in the conspiracy, we're talking 1000's of companies that hold contracts with the agencies, don't forget They don't build their rockets, satellites and rovers themselves.

NASA deals with relatively few government contractors to build their projects.

I wouldn't count the companies selling them bolts and computer screens as "in on it".

Quote
What about all the physicists, universities and other organisations that spend combined millions on research. Are they all in on it too, or are they just stupid?

What research?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: joachim on November 26, 2009, 03:34:48 AM
I know little about Science. I'm just wondering, isn't it possible to see if other planets are round or not by using a telescope?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 26, 2009, 03:38:07 AM
I know little about Science. I'm just wondering, isn't it possible to see if other planets are round or not by using a telescope?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Planets
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tristan on November 26, 2009, 06:27:09 AM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e
Do you mean like how this fake was detected?

Uh... hate to break it to you Tom, but you haven't actually achieved anything there. Firstly, you're not working from an original - you're working from a copy - a compressed, digital copy at that. Secondly, you haven't proved it was a fake. You haven't revealed the back wall of a studio or a man holding the sun on the end of a boom pole. All you've shown is a how to turn a big lens flare into a little lens flare.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tristan on November 26, 2009, 06:33:28 AM
And also, claiming that anyone with a photo editing programme can easily detect a fake photo was sort of our point.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 26, 2009, 07:17:29 AM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e

Do you mean like how this fake was detected?

"Hey I messed about with this image in photoshop and now it looks fake. ZOMG!!!"

I'm still confused however Tom. One minute you're saying the fakes are so good that they can't be detected, the next you're showing us ways to detect the fakes.

And have you gone to the press with this information?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Moon squirter on November 26, 2009, 09:04:28 AM
I know little about Science. I'm just wondering, isn't it possible to see if other planets are round or not by using a telescope?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Planets

Excuse me Tom but the  information in that link is absolute garbage.  "Please note that the planets are moving very slowly around the sun and would not retrograde several times a day as might be implied ... Several retrogrades a year would be more appropriate".

In that model, the planets would have to retrograde several times a day, otherwise the retrograde would not be possible at all.

Another RE victory.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 26, 2009, 03:18:49 PM
Quote
"Hey I messed about with this image in photoshop and now it looks fake. ZOMG!!!"

I'm still confused however Tom. One minute you're saying the fakes are so good that they can't be detected, the next you're showing us ways to detect the fakes.

NASA's fake was detected.

The Apollo sun is really nothing more than a large studio stage light.

I know little about Science. I'm just wondering, isn't it possible to see if other planets are round or not by using a telescope?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Planets

Excuse me Tom but the  information in that link is absolute garbage.  "Please note that the planets are moving very slowly around the sun and would not retrograde several times a day as might be implied ... Several retrogrades a year would be more appropriate".

In that model, the planets would have to retrograde several times a day, otherwise the retrograde would not be possible at all.

Another RE victory.

The retrograde actually happens very slowly in the night sky, over a long period of time.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Crustinator on November 26, 2009, 03:34:03 PM
NASA's fake was detected.

Of course it was. Makes you wonder what they're spending all those billions on if you can out wit them with 10 seconds of paintshop.

And have you gone to the press with this information?
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: markjo on November 26, 2009, 07:42:28 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/d5784ce2-2348-40a0-8f9b-0ddf37763b6e

Do you mean like how this fake was detected?

Until you can provide a control photograph for comparison, your "analysis" remains inconclusive.

Feel free to take a look at the sun if you think that it is inconsistently bright.

So you can't produce a control photograph for comparison.  Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Janktrio on November 26, 2009, 08:29:10 PM
Wow. Still no one realizes what my question is. Sure your contributions to the post were great and all but no FE has answered my question yet. I'm asking WHY the conspiracy is being held up not how. I don't care if you say they use photoshop or not, or if NASA faked the Apollo sun or if fakes can be detected or anything. That isn't important. I want an FE to tell me WHY the conspiracy is being held up. As in, for what reason, what purpose, etc. And please don't repeat "combined budgets=lots of money" 3 times. It doesn't make sense. RMcLeod did contribute to the actual topic and no, Tom, NASA doesn't just buy computer screens and bolts from other companies. And don't tell me that the rover is part of the conspiracy, here's an actual video of the rover (on earth):
So, someone, some FE actually answer the question. Or you can dodge my question and start talking about fake moon landings. It's all up to you. Really.
Title: Re: What Conspiracy?
Post by: Tristan on November 27, 2009, 06:36:01 AM
So, someone, some FE actually answer the question. Or you can dodge my question and start talking about fake moon landings. It's all up to you. Really.

Like many people have noted before, Conspiracy threads get abandoned or derailed very quickly on this site. Not because the idea of a conspiracy is batshit insane, but because it's so obviously batshit insane that even the bizarre, arse-about techniques of debate employed by 'The Few' aren't enough to get around it.