The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Long_For_Life on November 10, 2009, 06:24:59 PM

Title: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Long_For_Life on November 10, 2009, 06:24:59 PM
My initial response to this without any evidence is, "I really don't know." Either argument is sound, and i love the fact that this website challenges everything that we have been taught at such a young age. Can anyone argue that either one could be right?
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: spanner34.5 on November 11, 2009, 02:17:25 AM
A very good point, I really don't know but believe the Flat Earth theory much more likely.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Joeval on November 12, 2009, 08:21:24 AM
Actually, I'd say with no evidence, you'd be more likely to assume the earth is flat.  It certainly doesn't look spherical from our level.

But the problem is, there has been shed loads of research done, by various organizations over the past hundred years or more, that shows the earth as round.

Without bandying "Conspiracy" around, there is much less evidence in favour of a flat earth.  Most of it seems to be "it looks flat", a few relatively untested hypotheses to explain things like perspective and curvature, and some odd (but nonetheless clever) bendy light theories and equations.
(There's no doubt more, but I can't remember it...)

Round earth evidence is much more compelling.  Examples include Continental drift and Plate Tectonics, Fossil evidence, the same rocks on different continents, Ocean conveyor systems, geophysical mapping of the internal structure of the earth, plus all the space programs and satellites.  Again, there's probably more I forgot or couldn't be bothered to type out.  A good old search will give you plenty.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Supertails on November 12, 2009, 07:00:27 PM
It seems to me Joeval said what I wanna say.  XD
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Spacehopperjoe on November 13, 2009, 01:52:07 AM
Can anyone argue that either one could be right?

Eh, there is only one right theory, RE. Until the FE'ers have a reason for lunar eclipses which is backed up by research and evidence (like the Greeks did back in the day to prove the earth was round,) the FE religion will always be some sort of half cast joke. Stuck between make believe science and faith.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: MikeVaughanG on November 13, 2009, 06:58:53 AM
Can anyone argue that either one could be right?

 the FE religion..

HaHaHa!
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: John Davis on November 13, 2009, 07:11:03 AM
Can anyone argue that either one could be right?

 the FE religion..

HaHaHa!
No low content posting in the upper fora folks.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Joeval on November 13, 2009, 07:53:03 PM
Aha!  Mr Davis!  Just the person I was hoping would come into this thread...

As a FE'er, could you give a quick list of whatever FE evidence/theories I've left out of my post?  I'm clearly RE, so my post is a bit biased...  No doubt I forgot all sorts of flat earth stuff.

If nothing else, it would bring a bit of balance to this thread!
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: smudge1 on November 14, 2009, 03:39:11 AM
Of course the earth is flat. That's why my overseas mail always goes missing, along with the ship that takes it because quite obviously it falls off the edge. What's the matter with you all? Are you all stoopid? It's just so obvious!

Oh yes, just like god exists too, because ther's a big thick black book that says so.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: John Davis on November 14, 2009, 08:14:48 AM
Of course the earth is flat. That's why my overseas mail always goes missing, along with the ship that takes it because quite obviously it falls off the edge. What's the matter with you all? Are you all stoopid? It's just so obvious!

Oh yes, just like god exists too, because ther's a big thick black book that says so.
Read the faq, forum rules, and lurk a bit before you post again.

Most of us are atheists.  There is nothing with overseas mail.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Nord on November 14, 2009, 02:18:37 PM
Of course the earth is flat. That's why my overseas mail always goes missing, along with the ship that takes it because quite obviously it falls off the edge. What's the matter with you all? Are you all stoopid? It's just so obvious!

Oh yes, just like god exists too, because ther's a big thick black book that says so.

the fact you join this site to criticize flat earth means deep down you probably have doubts about a round earth...same for most other members who join this site to ''mock'' the flat earth...

why is it 99% of the ''anti-flat earthers'' on this forum don't post in flat earth debates?

of course because they can't refute flat earth. have a look on the forum...all the anti-flat earthers instead can be found in the areas where there are meaningless music or political debates.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2009, 02:41:13 PM
Of course the earth is flat. That's why my overseas mail always goes missing, along with the ship that takes it because quite obviously it falls off the edge. What's the matter with you all? Are you all stoopid? It's just so obvious!

Oh yes, just like god exists too, because ther's a big thick black book that says so.

the fact you join this site to criticize flat earth means deep down you probably have doubts about a round earth...same for most other members who join this site to ''mock'' the flat earth...

why is it 99% of the ''anti-flat earthers'' on this forum don't post in flat earth debates?

Must be that I'm a member of the 1% club.

Quote
of course because they can't refute flat earth. have a look on the forum...all the anti-flat earthers instead can be found in the areas where there are meaningless music or political debates.

Actually, most of the regulars that post in the lower fora claim to be FE true believers.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 02:00:51 AM
Can anyone argue that either one could be right?

Eh, there is only one right theory, RE. Until the FE'ers have a reason for lunar eclipses which is backed up by research and evidence (like the Greeks did back in the day to prove the earth was round,) the FE religion will always be some sort of half cast joke. Stuck between make believe science and faith.

We actually use those old Greek equations to predict our eclipses too. It's just an equation which predicts a recurring pattern which is seen in the sky.

It's the same way modern Astronomers still do it. Patterns in the sky and an equation which will predict the next.

Consult the Lunar Eclipse chapters of Earth Not a Globe and Zetetic Cosmogony in my signature link if you are interested in learning more.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: markjo on November 16, 2009, 06:17:30 AM
We actually use those old Greek equations to predict our eclipses too. It's just an equation which predicts a recurring pattern which is seen in the sky.

It's the same way modern Astronomers still do it. Patterns in the sky and an equation which will predict the next.

Consult the Lunar Eclipse chapters of Earth Not a Globe and Zetetic Cosmogony in my signature link if you are interested in learning more.

That's nice, Tom.  Did the ancient Greeks say anything about a mysterious shadow object causing lunar eclipses, or did they figure out that the round earth was the shadow object?
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 06:58:39 AM
We actually use those old Greek equations to predict our eclipses too. It's just an equation which predicts a recurring pattern which is seen in the sky.

Really? Could you explain further?
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 03:03:28 PM
We actually use those old Greek equations to predict our eclipses too. It's just an equation which predicts a recurring pattern which is seen in the sky.

It's the same way modern Astronomers still do it. Patterns in the sky and an equation which will predict the next.

Consult the Lunar Eclipse chapters of Earth Not a Globe and Zetetic Cosmogony in my signature link if you are interested in learning more.

That's nice, Tom.  Did the ancient Greeks say anything about a mysterious shadow object causing lunar eclipses, or did they figure out that the round earth was the shadow object?

All the Greeks did was provide an equation to tell us the recurrence of the Lunar Eclipse.

You have a lot of free time throughout the night when you're not stuck on your computer.

Quote
Really? Could you explain further?

Check my signature link. It took me a couple clicks in to get to this:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+shadow+on+the+moon+during+a+Lunar+Eclipse+is+round

Read the source reference in Zetetic Cosmogony, Earth Not a Globe, and others. Read them without bias.

The greeks and ancients provided charts and equations which showed CYCLES of patterns in the sky.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 03:05:51 PM
Check my signature link. It took me a couple clicks in to get to this:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+shadow+on+the+moon+during+a+Lunar+Eclipse+is+round

Read the source reference in Zetetic Cosmogony, Earth Not a Globe, and others.

Nope. No Greek equation.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 03:22:04 PM
Check my signature link. It took me a couple clicks in to get to this:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+shadow+on+the+moon+during+a+Lunar+Eclipse+is+round

Read the source reference in Zetetic Cosmogony, Earth Not a Globe, and others.

Nope. No Greek equation.

The specific equations are provided in the Lunar Eclipse Chapter of Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition. At the very end of the chapter.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 03:30:36 PM
The specific equations are provided in the Lunar Eclipse Chapter of Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition. At the very end of the chapter.

The one that was produced by "modern theorists".
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 03:51:53 PM
The specific equations are provided in the Lunar Eclipse Chapter of Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition. At the very end of the chapter.

The one that was produced by "modern theorists".

The same explanation still stands today. That's why it's in the Wiki.

Astronomers have tried to create eclipse predictions which take into account the geometry of the earth, sun, and moon. It's simply too hard to do. I've seen them try to do it. They hand wave something about "perturbations of orbit" and say that the Greek way is the best way to do it.

After NASA gives its yearly eclipse predictions, when you look at their "how it was done page" please look out for the words "Ancient Greeks" and "Cycles".
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 04:02:58 PM


The same explanation still stands today. That's why it's in the Wiki.
But it's not in the wiki.

And that's not an equation produced by ancient Greeks.

Astronomers have tried to create eclipse predictions which take into account the geometry of the earth, sun, and moon. It's simply too hard to do. I've seen them try to do it. They hand wave something about "perturbations of orbit" and say that the Greek way is the best way to do it.

You'll have no difficulty in backing up this cool story with some fact.

After NASA gives its yearly eclipse predictions, when you look at their "how it was done page" please look out for the words "Ancient Greeks" and "Cycles".

Actually NASA have produced eclipse data for every city on the planet until the year 3000.

Please highlight the "how was it done" section on this site (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html) that contains the words "Ancient Greeks".
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 05:16:32 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/5fdaffdc-ba0f-45a2-b895-4026b6a5951f

There.

Do not bother me again.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 05:25:51 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/5fdaffdc-ba0f-45a2-b895-4026b6a5951f

There. Now stop bothering me.

Using a hammer to crack a nut there Tom.

This was the passage you highlighted:

Quote from: http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEsaros.html
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well.

Nope. No reference to "how it was done" being due to ancient Greeks. :(

I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 05:34:57 PM
http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/5fdaffdc-ba0f-45a2-b895-4026b6a5951f

There. Now stop bothering me.

Using a hammer to crack a nut there Tom.

This was the passage you highlighted:

Quote from: http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEsaros.html
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well.

Nope. No reference to "how it was done" being due to ancient Greeks. :(

I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.

Fact: The Greeks could predict the eclipse thousands of years in advance.

Data: The Chaldean (Babylonian) Renaissance happened at least a thousand years after the Greeks. It's known that the Greeks were around since at least 3000 B.C.

Conclusion: They got their cycle charts from the Greeks.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 05:42:03 PM
Fact: The Greeks could predict the eclipse thousands of years in advance.

Maybe. I've not seen your ancient Greek equation yet to verify if that's true.

The Chaldean Renaissance happened at least one thousand years after the Greeks. The Greek Renaissance happened around 3000 B.C.

They got their cycles from the Greeks.
[/quote]

Nice logic there. Let me try:

Nuclear power was invented in 1942, at least 100 years after the Georgian era in Britain. They got their nuclear power from the Georgians.

And I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 05:45:36 PM
Quote
Maybe. I've not seen your ancient Greek equation yet to verify if that's true.

Again, the equations are in Earth Not a Globe, Second Edition, at the very end of the Lunar Eclipse chapter.

Links to online versions of the literature are in the signature.

Quote
Nice logic there. Let me try:

Nuclear power was invented in 1942, at least 100 years after the Georgian era in Britain. They got their nuclear power from the Georgians.

And I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.

Did the Georgians claim to have Nuclear Power in 1842?
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 16, 2009, 05:48:10 PM
Quote
Maybe. I've not seen your ancient Greek equation yet to verify if that's true.

Again, the equation are in Earth Not a Globe, Second Edition, at the very end of the Lunar Eclipse chapter.

No. That was an equation produced by "modern theorists".



Did the Georgians claim to have Nuclear Power in 1842?

Did the Greeks claim to have an equation for lunar eclipses?

And I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2009, 05:51:08 PM
Quote
No. That was an equation produced by "modern theorists".

Nope. The calculations are one in the same. Predicting the same phenomenon with the same equations which have been passed down in schools from generation to generation for thousands of years.

The Greeks also invented Algebra, by the way. Aristotile used Algebra to calculate buoyancy in liquid. The very same ones we also use today.

Quote
Did the Greeks claim to have an equation for lunar eclipses?

Yes, they did. Please read Earth Not a Globe. It also happens to be a history book.

Quote
And I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.

Read more. Post less.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Its a Sphere on November 16, 2009, 06:27:07 PM
Amazing that the NASA site doesn't mention this mystery "shadow object"  You'd think they would have discovered it by now.  Also amazing how the wiki references that something blocks the light from the sun to the moon.  I thought the moon produced its own light?
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: John Davis on November 17, 2009, 03:16:17 AM
The Greeks also invented Algebra, by the way. Aristotile used Algebra to calculate buoyancy in liquid. The very same ones we also use today.
Actually, not to veer off topic too much, it was Indians mostly.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 18, 2009, 04:29:43 AM
Quote
No. That was an equation produced by "modern theorists".

Nope. The calculations are one in the same. Predicting the same phenomenon with the same equations which have been passed down in schools from generation to generation for thousands of years.

I've seen no evidence of this. If they're the same equations then why not say "ancient Greek theorists" rather than "modern theorists"?

Yes, they did. Please read Earth Not a Globe. It also happens to be a history book.

I did. There's nothing in there that explains it as such. Hence this discussion. ???

Quote
And I'm still waiting for you to back up your cool story too.

Read more. Post less.

You mean you can't back it up? That's cool!

Actually, not to veer off topic too much, it was Babylonians mostly.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 18, 2009, 10:26:50 PM
Quote
I've seen no evidence of this. If they're the same equations then why not say "ancient Greek theorists" rather than "modern theorists"?

That would be because "Modern Theorists" ARE "Ancient Greek Theorists".

They even use Aristotile's eclipse explanation for the rotundity of the earth.

Physicists use Aristotile's buoyancy calculations to calculate buoyancy.

Zoologists use Aristotile's classifications to classify animals.

Philosophers use Aristotle's logic rules in their classrooms.

Biologists use Ancient Greek and Latin to name their tissue.

Medical Chemists use Ancient Greek and Latin to name their drugs.

The educational system is actually about pounding certain ideas into your head and then quizzing you about it afterwards. It is a dogmatic approach to knowledge where books are read, quizzes are taken, and there is only a single correct answer for each and every question.

Aristotile gained so much ground in matters of education because he was the teacher of Alexander the Great, the malevolent Greek Caesar who created one of the largest empires in human history, spreading the Greeks into the far east.

And, of course, if Aristotile was the teacher of Alexander, Aristotile MUST know what he's talking about!

For generation after generation, for thousands of years, the same ideas are pounded into the minds of children. Repeated over and over again verbatim. A Diploma Mill where new children come in, brainwashing occurs, and once sufficiently indoctrinated, are kicked out the door with their official "Now an Ancient Greek" parchment.

Educators are drill instructors of the Greeks which mock the same things over and over each year. Under no circumstance can the system be threatened. Under no circumstance can it be changed. It is one way or the highway.

If you do not agree with the answers of the Greeks, you are marked wrong, and there is nothing which can be done about it!
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Moon squirter on November 19, 2009, 04:14:34 AM
Quote
I've seen no evidence of this. If they're the same equations then why not say "ancient Greek theorists" rather than "modern theorists"?

Because "Modern Theorists" ARE "Ancient Greek Theorists".

...
The educational system is actually about pounding certain ideas into your head and then quizzing you about it afterwards. It is a dogmatic approach to knowledge where books are read, quizzes are taken, and there is only a single correct answer for each and every question.

Aristotile gained so much ground in matters of education because he was the teacher of Alexander the Great, the malevolent Greek Caesar who created one of the largest empires in human history, spreading the Greeks into the far east.

And, of course, if Aristotile was the teacher of Alexander, Aristotile MUST know what he's talking about!

For generation after generation, for thousands of years, the same ideas are pounded into the minds of children. Repeated over and over again verbatim. A Diploma Mill where new children come in, brainwashing occurs, and once sufficiently indoctrinated, are kicked out the door with their official "Now an Ancient Greek" parchment.

Educators are drill instructors of the Greeks which mock the same things over and over each year. Under no circumstance can the system be threatened. Under no circumstance can it be changed. It is one way or the highway.

If you do not agree with the answers of the Greeks, you are marked wrong, and there is nothing which can be done about it!

Tom,

If there's one thing I cannot stand it's people who moan and criticise without offering an alternative (and improved) approach.

What alternative approach do you suggest for education?

Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 19, 2009, 07:02:56 AM
Quote
I've seen no evidence of this. If they're the same equations then why not say "ancient Greek theorists" rather than "modern theorists"?

That would be because "Modern Theorists" ARE "Ancient Greek Theorists".

Of course. Modern being another word for ancient?

And you can of course give me a reference to an ancient Greek source where those formulae are printed. (That is, not ENaG)

The rest of your rant I didn't bother to read because it was off topic. Take it somewhere else.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 19, 2009, 11:15:13 AM
Tom,

If there's one thing I cannot stand it's people who moan and criticise without offering an alternative (and improved) approach.

What alternative approach do you suggest for education?

I own a private college. It's an alternative college to the monopoly run by the Ancient Greeks. At the private college I run the philosophy is "Learn by Debate".

No Books. No Tests. No Lectures. It's just debating on your own terms with your own research, if you even decide to do research at all. Heated skirmishes can last for weeks.

In each class you must construct arguments against your opponent. The class chooses the winner and the loser after arguments are given and materials presented. The loser gets an "F" for the course and has just wasted several hundred dollars.

The student is forced to build arguments which compel opinions to change. If opinions cannot be changed, if the class does not agree, the student is cast out of the golden gates of the school yard, only to return again when he has mustered the courage to pay several hundred dollars for another course.

No Financial Aid at this college.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: markjo on November 19, 2009, 11:23:11 AM
No Financial Aid at this college.
I'm guessing no accreditation either.  So even if they do pass, they have still likely wasted several hundred dollars.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 19, 2009, 11:27:28 AM
No Financial Aid at this college.
I'm guessing no accreditation either.  So even if they do pass, they have still likely wasted several hundred dollars.

We're accredited. Just not by the accreditors of the Ancient Greeks.

Accreditors are private entities, just like colleges and businesses. Anyone can file a corporation and start an accrediting agency tomorrow.
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Moon squirter on November 19, 2009, 11:34:22 AM
Tom,

If there's one thing I cannot stand it's people who moan and criticise without offering an alternative (and improved) approach.

What alternative approach do you suggest for education?

I own a private college. It's an alternative college to the monopoly run by the Ancient Greeks. At the private college I run the philosophy is "Learn by Debate".

No Books. No Tests. No Lectures. It's just debating on your own terms with your own research, if you even decide to do research at all. Heated skirmishes can last for weeks.
..
..
..
In each class you must construct arguments against your opponent. The class chooses the winner and the loser after arguments are given and materials presented. The loser gets an "F" for the course and has just wasted several hundred dollars.

The student is forced to build arguments which compel opinions to change. If opinions cannot be changed, if the class does not agree, the student is cast out of the golden gates of the school yard, only to return again when he has mustered the courage to pay several hundred dollars for another course.

No Financial Aid at this college.

You have just been cast out, Little Tommy Bishop!!!  Go home to you parents and beg them for another 200 dollars!!!
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Crustinator on November 19, 2009, 11:40:05 AM
I own a private college. It's an alternative college to the monopoly run by the Ancient Greeks. At the private college I run the philosophy is "Learn by Debate".

That's a cool story. What's the name of the college?

(PS I have noticed you've abandoned producing any ancient Greek equations. Shall I assume you will be reapplying for the next semester? The usual readmittance fee will apply :( )
Title: Re: Is the Earth Flat? Or is it round?
Post by: Moon squirter on November 19, 2009, 12:21:43 PM
Bishop!  Your using ancient Greek conspirator Pythagoras in the following debate:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25545.msg568458#msg568458

You are hereby cast out.  Go home and find another 200 dollars!!!