The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: Broojo02 on July 11, 2009, 05:32:55 PM

Title: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Broojo02 on July 11, 2009, 05:32:55 PM
Say you are talking to a friend and they mention gravity in some way that goes against the Flat Eath theory eg. believing it exists, do you tell them how wrong they are and tell them the theory of UA in all seriousness.

Or is it just forum talk? Would you be too embarrassed to seriously defend the flat earth theory for all its worth.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 11, 2009, 05:36:20 PM
I have often spoken about FET with my friends, but none of them are really interested, so I don't really do it anymore unless they ask about it (in which case I will defend it fully). To be quite honest, most people I have met 'IRL' are incapable of defending RET without access to wikipedia, and cannot get their heads around even the most basic aspects of FET.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Broojo02 on July 11, 2009, 05:40:42 PM
The people I talk about it with seem interested/laugh until I explain the theory. I have lurked here long enough to be able to explain away anything they say... I am quite shocked at myself.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Ski on July 12, 2009, 12:06:56 AM
My friends and co-workers are aware of my beliefs. I receive a small amount of good-natured ribbing, but very little real ridicule (or if I am ridiculed, they are polite enough not to mock me to my face). Most people are rather tolerant, if bemused; the exact opposite of the online demographic apparently.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 12, 2009, 12:13:23 AM
Since I live next to a bay, I regularly take acquaintances down to the beach to look across with a telescope to demonstrate beyond all doubt that the earth is not a globe.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on July 12, 2009, 12:16:33 AM
I have argued FET against many friends of mine, much to the enjoyment of myself and any observers.

Edit- I once debated against 6 RE proponents, myself being the only FE'er. I stomped all of them, and had one person so mad he refused to talk for 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Euclid on July 12, 2009, 12:20:22 AM
The vast majority are too stupid to care/argue about FET.  Most are simply bewildered if I ever talk about FET, and I have never been in any full-scale debates about it.  Even very intelligent people I know are unable to come up with very good objections to it.

However, as Ski said, this site does attract the minority who are vehemently opposed to FET.

Since I live next to a bay, I regularly take acquaintances down to the beach to look across with a telescope to demonstrate beyond all doubt that the earth is not a globe.

Tom, what beach do make your observations from?  I am temporarily in the San Francisco Bay area, and I would like to give your experiment a try some time.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Username on July 12, 2009, 12:38:19 AM
Say you are talking to a friend and they mention gravity in some way that goes against the Flat Eath theory eg. believing it exists, do you tell them how wrong they are and tell them the theory of UA in all seriousness.

Or is it just forum talk? Would you be too embarrassed to seriously defend the flat earth theory for all its worth.
[/quote
I'm running a show in town soon to promote it and promote it as much as I can socially as well as in my local and planar groups.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 12, 2009, 01:56:38 AM
Tom, what beach do make your observations from?  I am temporarily in the San Francisco Bay area, and I would like to give your experiment a try some time.

I make my observations from the Lover's Point Beach and the Lighthouse State Beach on the Monterey Bay. A man named Robert Allgeyer used to have a website with pictures of zoomed views across the bay, showing features which should not appear if the earth were a globe, but his website no longer exists. There's an archive.org version of the site (http://web.archive.org/web/20051216053751/http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/essays/vtth/viewtothehorizon.htm), but the pictures do not show up.

His excuse for the apparent flatness of the earth was "refraction did it". All throughout the year under many different atmospheric conditions "refraction" is suspending distant bodies at a precise height hundreds of feet in the air to create a perfect illusion of a flat earth.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on July 12, 2009, 07:30:17 AM
I used to have some good arguments about FET at my old job but nowadays language difficulties prevent me from debating FET with people around me.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Ichimaru Gin :] on July 12, 2009, 07:40:21 AM
I constantly promote it. I regularly have debates with friends IRL and facebook about it and it's qiute rewarding because I have gotten a some to acknowledge the FET is at least plausible and a few who now defend the FET.
In high school I won a debate with a physics teacher on the FET, did my english final project on it, and started an uproar in my lunch and spanish class when a RE er started losing a discussion with me.
In my college-life, I have been in contact with the astronomy teacher (even though I'll never have that class) regarding the RE views of the celestial objects in the sky.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: James on July 12, 2009, 08:32:48 AM
I have publicly promoted my beliefs in a number of news interviews, and for several years I operated a local Flat Earth promotion group.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: sandokhan on July 12, 2009, 08:57:21 AM
THERE IS NO UA GRAVITY THEORY, no travelling Earth at the speed of light, no 32 mile diameter Sun.

Here is the new FAQ, which takes care of these shortcomings, and IS the correct model:

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=1183.0

Before we can present the Flat Theory, we must destroy first the cherished big bang/superstring pipe dreams, then we have to prove the Earth is completely stationary, and only then that it is flat.

The supporting/secondary theory must be very carefully studied before it is presented; the mistakes made by Rowbotham and by the currect FET are hurting badly the whole movement.

The correct secondary theory is included in the above link.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Ichimaru Gin :] on July 12, 2009, 09:02:07 AM
You can't really say it IS the correct model. The model can always be improved. Also, some of the views in that link aren't shared by a lot of other FE ers.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: sandokhan on July 12, 2009, 09:15:22 AM
You are right, but so far it is the correct model, and, certainly, I will add improvements.

The other FE members have no choice but to agree with this new model; I have already debated with them the impossible 32 mile diameter sun, the impossible 3000 mile orbit, the impossible travelling Earth at the speed of light, and other smaller aspects. My model corrects the inconsistencies in the Rowbotham model, and also presents the secondary/supporting theory in a much better way.

If they stick with the old model, then the RE supporters will have a field day pointing out the mistakes of the 32 mile Sun theory, and UA model, and other things.

I am fully capable of presenting the FET in front of an audience made up of the best 1000 astrophysicists in the world; I will destroy their cherished model in 10 minutes, and then present the correct cosmogony.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: grogberries on July 12, 2009, 10:56:51 AM
Say you are talking to a friend and they mention gravity in some way that goes against the Flat Eath theory eg. believing it exists, do you tell them how wrong they are and tell them the theory of UA in all seriousness.

Or is it just forum talk? Would you be too embarrassed to seriously defend the flat earth theory for all its worth.

I normally do not believe in causing a stink. I like to teach by actions. The only people I do speak frankly with are my children who I make sure are well versed in FE literature.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 12, 2009, 10:56:57 AM
THERE IS NO UA GRAVITY THEORY, no travelling Earth at the speed of light, no 32 mile diameter Sun.

Here is the new FAQ, which takes care of these shortcomings, and IS the correct model:

http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=1183.0

Before we can present the Flat Theory, we must destroy first the cherished big bang/superstring pipe dreams, then we have to prove the Earth is completely stationary, and only then that it is flat.

The supporting/secondary theory must be very carefully studied before it is presented; the mistakes made by Rowbotham and by the currect FET are hurting badly the whole movement.

The correct secondary theory is included in the above link.

It's a decent model and I agree with the "back to the basics" approach and a several of the elements presented. I just can't figure out how the 'sun disappearing behind a mountain to cause the sunset' works in that classical orthodox model.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Squat on July 12, 2009, 11:14:41 AM


It's a decent model and I agree with the "back to the basics" approach and a several of the elements presented. I just can't figure out how the 'sun disappearing behind a mountain to cause the sunset' works in that classical orthodox model.

Nor can I. If there was a mountain, Ranulph Fiennes would have found it and Chris Bonnington would have climbed it by now. 
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 11:24:41 AM
I have argued FET against many friends of mine, much to the enjoyment of myself and any observers.

Edit- I once debated against 6 RE proponents, myself being the only FE'er. I stomped all of them, and had one person so mad he refused to talk for 10 minutes.
  It's not quite fair if you just jump to other people who have forgotten most things they have learned and in same time you itself have researched topic more. It's not arguing, you are using others ignorance and bashing them with things which they can never replicate and which just seem to be real at first glance.
 That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 11:26:56 AM
That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.

Just out of interest (genuinely), have you ever asked?
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: grogberries on July 12, 2009, 11:28:15 AM
Tom could do it. And what is not public about the internet?
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 11:29:44 AM
Tom could do it. And what is not public about the internet?

Indeed. I'm not sure what you consider better about public debate zork. In my experience, public debate favours the better debator, rather than the better argument.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Squat on July 12, 2009, 11:29:50 AM

  It's not quite fair if you just jump to other people who have forgotten most things they have learned and in same time you itself have researched topic more. It's not arguing, you are using others ignorance and bashing them with things which they can never replicate and which just seem to be real at first glance.
 That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.




I am fully capable of presenting the FET in front of an audience made up of the best 1000 astrophysicists in the world; I will destroy their cherished model in 10 minutes, and then present the correct cosmogony.

levee's your man.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on July 12, 2009, 11:41:44 AM

  It's not quite fair if you just jump to other people who have forgotten most things they have learned and in same time you itself have researched topic more. It's not arguing, you are using others ignorance and bashing them with things which they can never replicate and which just seem to be real at first glance.
 That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.




I am fully capable of presenting the FET in front of an audience made up of the best 1000 astrophysicists in the world; I will destroy their cherished model in 10 minutes, and then present the correct cosmogony.

levee's your man.
levee is batshit insane.

I have argued FET against many friends of mine, much to the enjoyment of myself and any observers.

Edit- I once debated against 6 RE proponents, myself being the only FE'er. I stomped all of them, and had one person so mad he refused to talk for 10 minutes.
  It's not quite fair if you just jump to other people who have forgotten most things they have learned and in same time you itself have researched topic more. It's not arguing, you are using others ignorance and bashing them with things which they can never replicate and which just seem to be real at first glance.
 That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.
Your entire time in the education system you are taught round earth theory. Who had the advantage again?
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 11:42:15 AM
That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.

Just out of interest (genuinely), have you ever asked?
  Don't have anyone to ask from my country. If there is some then they are quite well hidden and have no interest in public presentations. And your question shows FE peoples attitude towards their theory. No interest whatsoever to spread their theory publicly. If there is anyone interested in FET then he must come and dig up some FET people and ask from them.

I am fully capable of presenting the FET in front of an audience made up of the best 1000 astrophysicists in the world; I will destroy their cherished model in 10 minutes, and then present the correct cosmogony.
levee's your man.
No, he is not. He just says that. And if I or someone asks from him that why don't you do it then then answer probably is that you organize this event and then I come.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 11:45:09 AM
Your entire time in the education system you are taught round earth theory. Who had the advantage again?
No, you are definitely not in your entire time in education system taught that. And who remembers all things after couple or 5 or some more years. Person who has done research in subject recently has advantage. And that is you.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on July 12, 2009, 11:48:41 AM
Your entire time in the education system you are taught round earth theory. Who had the advantage again?
No, you are definitely not in your entire time in education system taught that. And who remembers all things after couple or 5 or some more years. Person who has done research in subject recently has advantage. And that is you.
I didn't say you were taught just RET. At the time of that debate, we were all in high school, so I hope that they remembered what they were taught. So no, I had the disadvantage of having no other FE'ers with me, and they had multiple years of education on RET.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 11:49:18 AM
That brings me to a point. I have never seen here not one person who is ready to do some public debate with some hundred or so people and with previous announcement so that others can do a little research before they come to argue.

Just out of interest (genuinely), have you ever asked?

Don't have anyone to ask from my country. If there is some then they are quite well hidden and have no interest in public presentations. And your question shows FE peoples attitude towards their theory. No interest whatsoever to spread their theory publicly. If there is anyone interested in FET then he must come and dig up some FET people and ask from them.


So the answer is no then. I see. You claim you've never seen anyone on here willing to engage in public debate, yet at the same time, you've never asked. Also, is it our fault that none of us lives where you live? And are you sure that's actually the case?


No, he is not. He just says that. And if I or someone asks from him that why don't you do it then then answer probably is that you organize this event and then I come.

On what do you base this conclusion? Seriously, why don't you stop making baseless claims about the members of this society? And if you're the one who's interested in a public debate, then of course you should organise it! You're the one who's interested- everyone here is quote happy with fes.org as a platform for discussion.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 11:56:10 AM
No, he is not. He just says that. And if I or someone asks from him that why don't you do it then then answer probably is that you organize this event and then I come.
On what do you base this conclusion? Seriously, why don't you stop making baseless claims about the members of this society? And if you're the one who's interested in a public debate, then of course you should organise it! You're the one who's interested- everyone here is quote happy with fes.org as a platform for discussion.
 I base my conclusion on my observations. Anyone here hasn't ever mentioned anything about such events and anyone ever hasn't shown interest to organize such events also. If you can show me otherwise then I take my words back. And as I said, I don't have any FET people in my country and I can't organize such event even if I am interested. And again you emphasize the fact that FET people have no interest in publicity of their theory but other must do this if these others are interested.

I didn't say you were taught just RET. At the time of that debate, we were all in high school, so I hope that they remembered what they were taught. So no, I had the disadvantage of having no other FE'ers with me, and they had multiple years of education on RET.
  Sorry, there is no such thing as RET education. There is education which among many other things teaches that earth is round. I am aware that it really doesn't teach you always how exactly you can prove that earth is round(sometimes it does, people do something like eratosthenes experiment and other things) and if it teaches then most of us forget it soon and doesn't think about it because world operates correctly and there is no need for another world model. And I say it again, you just use others ignorance and maybe you have better thinking capabilities than others and could play your cards better. But I still cant bring myself to call it real arguing because this kind of arguing can't really go further from superficial. Because if anyone is really interested in FET then you can't refer him to any modern scientific work about that.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 12:02:26 PM
No, he is not. He just says that. And if I or someone asks from him that why don't you do it then then answer probably is that you organize this event and then I come.
On what do you base this conclusion? Seriously, why don't you stop making baseless claims about the members of this society? And if you're the one who's interested in a public debate, then of course you should organise it! You're the one who's interested- everyone here is quote happy with fes.org as a platform for discussion.
I base my conclusion on my observations.

Did you observe him saying that he would do this? Because he said it right there. Are you calling him a liar? Don't try and dress this is up as anything other than what it is- you are accusing him of being unwilling to do what he has openly stated he is willing to do.

And again you emphasize the fact that FET people have no interest in publicity of their theory but other must do this if these others are interested.

For years I participated in public debate (though not regarding FET), and it has convinced me that public debate/discussion does not favour the best argument, but the best debator. Go to any debating society, and every week they'll have debates where one side is for and the other against a particular motion. The reason they have this setup is because they recognise that a good debator can argue any point, no matter how valid or invalid it may be.

That is why I personally believe that the debate is a better format for discussions of this (or any) nature.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on July 12, 2009, 12:12:40 PM
I didn't say you were taught just RET. At the time of that debate, we were all in high school, so I hope that they remembered what they were taught. So no, I had the disadvantage of having no other FE'ers with me, and they had multiple years of education on RET.
  Sorry, there is no such thing as RET education. There is education which among many other things teaches that earth is round. I am aware that it really doesn't teach you always how exactly you can prove that earth is round(sometimes it does, people do something like eratosthenes experiment and other things) and if it teaches then most of us forget it soon and doesn't think about it because world operates correctly and there is no need for another world model. And I say it again, you just use others ignorance and maybe you have better thinking capabilities than others and could play your cards better. But I still cant bring myself to call it real arguing because this kind of arguing can't really go further from superficial. Because if anyone is really interested in FET then you can't refer him to any modern scientific work about that.
......What?
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 12:17:34 PM
Did you observe him saying that he would do this? Because he said it right there. Are you calling him a liar? Don't try and dress this is up as anything other than what it is- you are accusing him of being unwilling to do what he has openly stated he is willing to do.
 It's harsh but yes, I can call him liar till he hasn't shown otherwise. Because I can also claim all kind of things here without any need to do them. Does that make me willing or capable of doing them if I just say it here on internet?
And again you emphasize the fact that FET people have no interest in publicity of their theory but other must do this if these others are interested.
For years I participated in public debate (though not regarding FET), and it has convinced me that public debate/discussion does not favour the best argument, but the best debator. Go to any debating society, and every week they'll have debates where one side is for and the other against a particular motion. The reason they have this setup is because they recognise that a good debator can argue any point, no matter how valid or invalid it may be.

That is why I personally believe that the debate is a better format for discussions of this (or any) nature.
 I see your point, but in my opinion the shape of the Earth isn't such subjective thing you can seriously debate for or against without any scientific research and only with your subjective opinions and thoughts. It's not really hard science then, it's rather philosophy then.

But I still cant bring myself to call it real arguing because this kind of arguing can't really go further from superficial. Because if anyone is really interested in FET then you can't refer him to any modern scientific work about that.
......What?
I guess you can refer me then to some modern scientific work about flat earth?
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 12:22:41 PM
It's harsh but yes, I can call him liar till he hasn't shown otherwise. Because I can also claim all kind of things here without any need to do them. Does that make me willing or capable of doing them if I just say it here on internet?

No, you can't call him a liar. Just because he hasn't done something, does not mean he's not willing to. I have gone on record saying I would be willing to travel into space on behalf of FES if someone was willing to finance it. I'm not a liar just because I haven't been yet.




I see your point, but in my opinion the shape of the Earth isn't such subjective thing you can seriously debate for or against without any scientific research and only with your subjective opinions and thoughts. It's not really hard science then, it's rather philosophy then.

Then do some scientific research! We'll still be here when you get back.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: zork on July 12, 2009, 12:34:23 PM
No, you can't call him a liar. Just because he hasn't done something, does not mean he's not willing to. I have gone on record saying I would be willing to travel into space on behalf of FES if someone was willing to finance it. I'm not a liar just because I haven't been yet.

  And maybe you are and you say that only because there is no way for you to go on space in your lifetime. I can't know in any way if you are lying or not. I only know that you aren't done that and you don't do it in near future. You only say that you are willing. Looking from my side there is 50-50 chance for both, that you tell the truth or you lie.

I see your point, but in my opinion the shape of the Earth isn't such subjective thing you can seriously debate for or against without any scientific research and only with your subjective opinions and thoughts. It's not really hard science then, it's rather philosophy then.
Then do some scientific research! We'll still be here when you get back.
Others have done it already and I have no need to do it again. But I will be waiting when FE side can come up with something real. With something that everyone else can experience with same results and not only the person who thought thing up.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 12, 2009, 12:37:38 PM
No, you can't call him a liar. Just because he hasn't done something, does not mean he's not willing to. I have gone on record saying I would be willing to travel into space on behalf of FES if someone was willing to finance it. I'm not a liar just because I haven't been yet.

  And maybe you are and you say that only because there is no way for you to go on space in your lifetime. I can't know in any way if you are lying or not. I only know that you aren't done that and you don't do it in near future. You only say that you are willing. Looking from my side there is 50-50 chance for both, that you tell the truth or you lie.

Ok, but just because you don't know for certain that I am telling the truth, does not mean you have the right to assume I am a liar. The same goes for levee.
Title: Re: Do the FErs actively promote the FET IRL?
Post by: Sentient Fridge on July 12, 2009, 12:39:50 PM
If I actually knew anything about the FET, I would gladly support it as much as I could.


Of course, those who know me wouldn't listen to a thing I say because I tend to be sarcastic about it.

But, its really true. I know.