The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Althalus on September 19, 2008, 11:16:48 PM

Title: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on September 19, 2008, 11:16:48 PM
This is what it would be like, if the majority of people were athiests.
ATHIEST KID: Mom, I'm going to go fuck a hooker.
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, son.
ATHIEST KID: Afterwards, I'm going to go smoke pot with my friends, since it's "not addictive."
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, come home soon!

The athiest kid leaves the room. The father comes home from work several minutes later.

ATHIEST DAD: Hey!
ATHIEST MOM: Hi, honey! I'm pregnant again. I guess I'll just get another abortion, since "fetuses don't count as human life."
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, get as many abortions as you want!
ATHIEST MOM: Oh, and don't go in the bedroom.
ATHIEST DAD: Why not?
ATHIEST MOM: There are two gay men fucking eachother in there.
ATHIEST DAD: Why are they here?
ATHIEST MOM: I wanted to watch them do it for awhile. They just aren't finished yet.
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, that's fine with me!

Suddenly, their neighbor runs into the house.

ATHIEST NEIGHBOR: Come quick, there's a Christian outside!
ATHIEST MOM: We'll be right there!

The athiest couple quickly put on a pair of black robes and hoods. They then exit the house, and run into the street, where a Christian is nailed to a large, wooden X. He is being burned alive. A crowd of athiests stand around him, all wearing black robes and hoods.

RANDOM ATHIEST: Damn you, Christian! We hate you! We claim to be tolerant of all religions. But we really hate your's! That's because we athiests are hypocritical like that! Die, Christian!

THE END

Scary, isn't it?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 19, 2008, 11:22:20 PM
Yeah. Good thing it will never happen.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MrKappa on September 20, 2008, 12:09:42 AM
And you propose to instill fear with an all powerful lord our father to keep humans in check?

Introduce poverty and crack economics to any neighborhood and it won't make a difference if God lives there or not...

I'll admit... There is about as much room for Atheists in science as there is room for Creationists...

What exactly is your point?

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 20, 2008, 04:59:43 AM
Althalus has spent so much time arguing with atheists on internet forums and watching Richard Dawkins on YouTube that he really believes that we're all out to get him.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 20, 2008, 06:09:40 AM
Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion :)

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: divito the truthist on September 20, 2008, 06:59:55 AM
This is what it would be like, if the majority of people were athiests.

Not...even...close.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MrKappa on September 20, 2008, 07:39:13 AM
I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

This is the problem with Atheists... They would have you believe all science is based on fact and they are all Atheists...

There are scientists who are agnostic... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on September 20, 2008, 07:42:12 AM
So removing God from science is a bad idea? Atheism isn't a religion, MrKappa, it's the lack of one.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 20, 2008, 07:45:32 AM
This is the guy who blatantly plagiarised Kasroa's sig... ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MrKappa on September 20, 2008, 07:55:45 AM
So removing God from science is a bad idea? Atheism isn't a religion, MrKappa, it's the lack of one.

Oh... I disagree... Atheists are blatantly using science as their religion. In fact... they often use science to prove their point and justify their beliefs... science is the new religion... where have you been?

Ask a religious zealot why how the universe was created he will probably say God. Ask an Atheist how the universe was created and they will say the big bang. Neither have the proof to back their claim. They both preach doctrine and have faith in what they cannot know.

Oscar... I saw two people with similar sigs... I figured I would join the theme... welcome to the worlds biggest copying machine...the internet... Nice Avatar...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on September 20, 2008, 08:45:02 AM
Ask an Atheist how the universe was created and they will say the big bang. Neither have the proof to back their claim. They both preach doctrine and have faith in what they cannot know.

Fail.

The only thing a scientist needs faith in is that you can increase your understanding of the natural world by observation.

Atheism does not equal pseudo-scientific fanaticism.

PS - no one has absolute 'proof' to back up any claim, if you take the argument to it's logical extreme. There is plenty of evidence for the big bang, whether you 'believe in it' or not.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on September 20, 2008, 01:23:16 PM
The amount of hatred against Christians in this thread is quite telling.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on September 20, 2008, 01:47:34 PM
Yes Althalus.   I think they are afraid of their own future.

Very tolerant and loving bunch, aren't they.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 20, 2008, 01:57:56 PM
The amount of hatred against Christians in this thread is quite telling.

Yeah, your love for atheists in the OP really shines.  ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mrs. Peach on September 20, 2008, 01:58:37 PM
The amount of hatred against Christians in this thread is quite telling.

Although not quite as telling as your increasingly dreary attacks on a 14-year-old.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on September 20, 2008, 03:30:20 PM
The amount of hatred against Christians in this thread is quite telling.

Irony.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: beast on September 22, 2008, 10:27:03 PM
But it's kind of interesting too (the "hatred") because if you considered the position of religious people objectively, and imagine that instead of holding those views, they held similar views that had no history behind them, it would be totally acceptable to dismiss them as crazy morons.  The only thing that gives religious views any respect it seems, is how long people have held that delusion for.

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 23, 2008, 08:33:08 AM
I disagree with OP, because altruism is fundamental to the survival of the species, and therefore biologically programmed into our basic brain functions, and people without moral codes to live by quickly establish their own ones.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 23, 2008, 08:36:25 AM
And also because I'm a raping, murderous atheist who despises religion and eats aborted christian fetuses for lunch every christmas.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on September 23, 2008, 09:46:47 AM
And also because I'm a raping, murderous atheist who despises religion and eats aborted christian fetuses for lunch every christmas.

Liar.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 23, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
That may be true. But you know, I'm an atheist, so I don't have any moral fiber, which means I don't have to feel bad about it. ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on September 23, 2008, 10:23:19 AM
That may be true. But you know, I'm an atheist, so I don't have any moral fiber, which means I don't have to feel bad about it. ::)

What is the background for an Atheists' moral fiber.  Just the fear of immediate earthly consequence?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: divito the truthist on September 23, 2008, 10:23:54 AM
What is the background for an Atheists' moral fiber. 

DNA + self-interest.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on September 23, 2008, 10:30:07 AM
As Divito said, altruistic genes. But most people really have no desire to do particularly bad things, like killing, raping and stealing, but those that do are usually stopped by fear of the law, that much is true.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 23, 2008, 11:49:05 AM
Like with all religious people, atheists have differing reasons and backgrounds for their moral fiber, but for me, it simply stems from my desire to be social and to please people whom I like. That means that I see things which physically or mentally harm people are against my morals, and things which benefit myself and others are supported by my morals.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 23, 2008, 04:37:32 PM
I don't hate Christians. 

Althalus, where did you copy that from?  I know I've read it before.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 23, 2008, 05:49:18 PM
That may be true. But you know, I'm an atheist, so I don't have any moral fiber, which means I don't have to feel bad about it. ::)

What is the background for an Atheists' moral fiber.  Just the fear of immediate earthly consequence?
Empathy...which is itself derived from what Divito said.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on September 23, 2008, 09:06:44 PM
Things atheists believe in nad want made part of society:


Everything mentioned in my initial post correspondes to an item in the above list.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 24, 2008, 04:47:18 AM
I don't know what you are talking about, Osama. I'm all for adultery. I heard that most biologists agree that humans aren't naturally monogamous anyway.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on September 24, 2008, 06:27:00 AM
Things atheists believe in nad want made part of society
Nad is their god!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on September 24, 2008, 07:41:45 AM
I don't know what you are talking about, Osama. I'm all for adultery. I heard that most biologists agree that humans aren't naturally monogamous anyway.

Maybe it's just my upbringing, but I'm a very monogamous person. I just need to find someone to be monogamous with.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 24, 2008, 08:06:48 AM
(PROTIP: So am I. But don't tell anyone. All the other atheists will think I've gone soft.)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 26, 2008, 07:26:35 PM
Does god exists >>>

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 26, 2008, 07:42:20 PM
 ;D

Supposed miracles >>>


Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 26, 2008, 07:44:54 PM
Does god exists >>>


ya i watched and he really didnt raise any big points
nothing to convert me
but the guy was still pretty interesting
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 26, 2008, 07:46:25 PM
;D

Supposed miracles >>>



How is that a disturbance in the natural order?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on September 26, 2008, 08:25:12 PM
;D

Supposed miracles >>>



This isn't a miracle, religious buildings often survive natural disasters because they are built to last.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 26, 2008, 08:37:44 PM
lol thats why I said supposed miracle :P

Panda:
Man I can give you a similar lecture but in Arabic loool coz as you all know I sucks in English but if it's in Arabic am sure I would never fail to amuse you hehehe  ;)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 26, 2008, 08:44:42 PM
Panda:
Man I can give you a similar lecture but in Arabic loool coz as you all know I sucks in English but if it's in Arabic am sure I would never fail to amuse you hehehe  ;)
i think ill pass i dont speak arabic but i bet itll still be funny 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on September 26, 2008, 08:50:58 PM
I don't mind running a translator, I am able to display any major foreign language.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on September 26, 2008, 08:51:11 PM
Does god exists >>>

By the arguments used in that video, we should be worshiping Epicurus (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=articles&id=362).
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 26, 2008, 08:53:42 PM
Does god exists >>>

By the arguments used in that video, we should be worshiping Epicurus (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=articles&id=362).
ya basically all of the science the guy quoted came from the greeks
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 26, 2008, 09:37:45 PM
A gift for Atheists







Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MrKappa on September 26, 2008, 09:57:49 PM
A gift for Atheists


This video was fairly interesting. I appreciated the way the camera gave strength and attention to the first questioner and the way the speaker called him to action with his answer to his question. I did not appreciate the camera cutting to a close up of the darkest skin gentleman in the room while speaking of rape statistics. I also did not appreciate how the camera neglected the woman while she spoke.

It is a very odd to watch people ask another how they should morally live their life but I imagine there are many equivalents in North America.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 27, 2008, 02:24:07 AM
Does god exists >>>



The thing about this guy is that he just quotes the quran, and that proves nothing other than the fact that the person who wrote it is intelligent/knowledgable. Also, he speaks about what an atheist would say if you brought him a device that no one had seen before and ask him who could tell you what mechanism got the device running, and gives the creator or inventor as an answer. This is wrong. If the creator can't be found, you backwards-engineer the device until you know it yourself. My reply, upon the question at hand, would therefore be myself.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on September 27, 2008, 04:58:00 AM
I'm watching the god video now, I already hate this guy...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 27, 2008, 05:08:54 AM
The doctor guy? I don't hate him, I just think he's wrong. ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 07:39:14 AM
so i watched the first one and i didnt even understand what the guy was asking
but then i went to a related video and found this
(http://)
this basically proves the point that the koran stole from the greeks
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on September 27, 2008, 08:19:57 AM
so i watched the first one and i didnt even understand what the guy was asking
but then i went to a related video and found this
(http://)
this basically proves the point that the koran stole from the greeks

Koran stole from the Greeks, loool just if you read the Quran and see some verses you would seriously laugh at yourself saying this, do you know the History of the Arabs world at the time of Quran ?

BTW I liked this one  ;D

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 08:23:20 AM
so i watched the first one and i didnt even understand what the guy was asking
but then i went to a related video and found this
(http://)
this basically proves the point that the koran stole from the greeks

Koran stole from the Greeks, loool just if you read the Quran and see some verses you would seriously laugh at yourself saying this, do you know the History of the Arabs world at the time of Quran ?

BTW I liked this one  ;D


i know a little about the arabs but not much
i do know that they were technologically advanced
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on September 27, 2008, 10:44:40 AM
Morals don't need religion or God to form. Case in point come in the world of driving, there are many many rules listed in the highway code, lots of ways to signal and to indicate etc.

That's all very well, but a new driving morality has emerged on the roads not written down or even taught by driving instructors, it's driving manners. We as drivers learn soon enough that flashing your headlights is an invitation to let you out, flashing your emergency lights once is a 'thank you' to the car behind, beeping your horn shows dissatisfaction with another driver. We know that driving at less than the speed limit for no reason is 'bad driving' and we know that putting 'baby on board' signs in the car is a clear sign you're a dangerous driver. And we feel bad if we violate those rules.

These little rules and manners evolved naturally amongst the drivers themselves, not from a higher force carving them on tablets of stone, now if relatively complicated 'morals' can be developed amongst a community in less than a century(ish), you would expect rules like 'don't kill' and 'don't steal' to form in 10,000(ish) years
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 11:05:25 AM
Morals don't need religion or God to form. Case in point come in the world of driving, there are many many rules listed in the highway code, lots of ways to signal and to indicate etc.

That's all very well, but a new driving morality has emerged on the roads not written down or even taught by driving instructors, it's driving manners. We as drivers learn soon enough that flashing your headlights is an invitation to let you out, flashing your emergency lights once is a 'thank you' to the car behind, beeping your horn shows dissatisfaction with another driver. We know that driving at less than the speed limit for no reason is 'bad driving' and we know that putting 'baby on board' signs in the car is a clear sign you're a dangerous driver. And we feel bad if we violate those rules.

These little rules and manners evolved naturally amongst the drivers themselves, not from a higher force carving them on tablets of stone, now if relatively complicated 'morals' can be developed amongst a community in less than a century(ish), you would expect rules like 'don't kill' and 'don't steal' to form in 10,000(ish) years
good point
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MadDogX on September 27, 2008, 11:13:20 AM
Morals don't need religion or God to form. Case in point come in the world of driving, there are many many rules listed in the highway code, lots of ways to signal and to indicate etc.

That's all very well, but a new driving morality has emerged on the roads not written down or even taught by driving instructors, it's driving manners. We as drivers learn soon enough that flashing your headlights is an invitation to let you out, flashing your emergency lights once is a 'thank you' to the car behind, beeping your horn shows dissatisfaction with another driver. We know that driving at less than the speed limit for no reason is 'bad driving' and we know that putting 'baby on board' signs in the car is a clear sign you're a dangerous driver. And we feel bad if we violate those rules.

These little rules and manners evolved naturally amongst the drivers themselves, not from a higher force carving them on tablets of stone, now if relatively complicated 'morals' can be developed amongst a community in less than a century(ish), you would expect rules like 'don't kill' and 'don't steal' to form in 10,000(ish) years


Good post.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 27, 2008, 12:03:52 PM
Though your highway code is a little different from ours. In Sweden, flashing your headlights when meeting another car is to tell them their lights are out, or they forgot to turn off the full beam.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on September 27, 2008, 12:10:33 PM
We have similar things but it isn't in our highway code, which was my point. This furthers my point that different societies find different ways to come to similar morals.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 12:31:49 PM
Though your highway code is a little different from ours. In Sweden, flashing your headlights when meeting another car is to tell them their lights are out, or they forgot to turn off the full beam.
ya in america we dont flash lights to thank ppl
usually we wave maybe we flash to let them out but other than that we flash to tell them to get their starbucks off the roof of their car
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 27, 2008, 12:40:27 PM
We have similar things but it isn't in our highway code, which was my point. This furthers my point that different societies find different ways to come to similar morals.

I didn't mean that it was a written set of rules, I just called it the highway code, because it sounded catchy. :P
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 12:43:56 PM
We have similar things but it isn't in our highway code, which was my point. This furthers my point that different societies find different ways to come to similar morals.

I didn't mean that it was a written set of rules, I just called it the highway code, because it sounded catchy. :P
i understood what you said because in america we dont have codes and rules for everything like they do in england
but i think we're slowly getting there
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on September 27, 2008, 01:43:54 PM
I don't believe anything you say about America.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on September 27, 2008, 02:11:21 PM
I don't believe anything

I know. You're an atheist, right?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 02:44:05 PM
I don't believe anything you say about America.
have you ever been there
i live in america right nao
i know what i see (i think?)
 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on September 27, 2008, 03:20:03 PM
I'm half American, genetically anyway. I visit the eastern board usually 2-3 times a year.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on September 27, 2008, 07:00:30 PM
I'm half American, genetically anyway.
Native?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 27, 2008, 08:06:52 PM
I'm half American, genetically anyway. I visit the eastern board usually 2-3 times a year.
cool
and you still havent seen people with starbucks on their roof
i see it at least once a week
also where in the eastern seaboard do you go
boston*coughfreakscough* has completely different codes then what we in the south have
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on September 30, 2008, 06:04:09 AM
The places I visit most are: Barstow, VA., Washington, PA., Outter Banks, NC., Ft. Meyers FL., and Hagersville MD. And my point was, if I remember, that any comment about how "Americans" do things mean nothing, there are no "American" characteristics.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 01, 2008, 04:36:17 PM
Since Atheist don't believe in the existence of god and all, I am wondering that if for example an Atheist believed in the existence of one almighty god (Allah) what are the things he would lose for this new believe?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 01, 2008, 04:39:09 PM
Are you saying atheists have nothing to lose by believing just in case?  I don't think a person can honestly do that. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on October 01, 2008, 04:42:04 PM
Since Atheist don't believe in the existence of god and all, I am wondering that if for example an Atheist believed in the existence of one almighty god (Allah) what are the things he would lose for this new believe?

Well not being a 'true' or 'militant' atheist I'm only semi-guessing, but I would suspect that adopting a belief in something for no reason other than to have 'a belief' is about the most hypocritical thing a person can do, so most atheists would lose their sense of honesty and integrity.

When I did jury service I was asked if I wanted to read the atheist affirmation, or swear on a holy text... I swore on the Bible since it seemed the right thing to do, but I was wondering as soon as I'd done it whether I really should have, not being a true Christian 'believer'. With hindsight I should have affirmed rather than sworn on the Bible, since the Bible isn't really any closer to covering my beliefs than the Qu'ran (or Koran, spelling?).
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 01, 2008, 04:47:47 PM
Since Atheist don't believe in the existence of god and all, I am wondering that if for example an Atheist believed in the existence of one almighty god (Allah) what are the things he would lose for this new belief?

If it's the christian God who's real then he'll be pissed, same if it's bhrahma, Ra, Zeus, the FSM, . out of all the Gods who have been claimed to be real (www.godchecker.com has about 3,000 according to wiki) you can't just pick one at random and believe die-hard enough to get to heaven.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MadDogX on October 01, 2008, 04:50:26 PM
Duh. The more people believe in a god, the more real he is!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 01, 2008, 04:56:46 PM
Quote
Are you saying atheists have nothing to lose by believing just in case?  I don't think a person can honestly do that. 

Yes, hmmm I mean for example I am talking to Mr. Althalus, oh AbdulAziz you should thank god once a day otherwise you would go to hell....etc I am not losing anything if I said oh thank you god ? I am not losing anything if I was Atheist because I believe that there is no life-after and no judgment, so I am not afraid and at the same time if it was true I did what I am required to do in either way I am not losing?

But if I was a Muslim and I have a god saying, listen if you prayed to Jesus a human I created even once you would be burned in Hell then here I have something stopping me from doing. However Atheists they have no such fears?
---

Well according to Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus we all believe in the same one "Almighty God" but others I dont know.

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 01, 2008, 05:01:25 PM
I think we should pledge allegiance to Kauket: Goddess of Dark Chaos.

Or how about Min: God of Lettuce and Sex.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on October 01, 2008, 10:59:47 PM
I went to Godchecker.com and found an aztec equivalent of the great deluge witihin seconds. lol, the irony. ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 10:59:10 AM
Quote
Are you saying atheists have nothing to lose by believing just in case?  I don't think a person can honestly do that. 

Yes, hmmm I mean for example I am talking to Mr. Althalus, oh AbdulAziz you should thank god once a day otherwise you would go to hell....etc I am not losing anything if I said oh thank you god ? I am not losing anything if I was Atheist because I believe that there is no life-after and no judgment, so I am not afraid and at the same time if it was true I did what I am required to do in either way I am not losing?

But if I was a Muslim and I have a god saying, listen if you prayed to Jesus a human I created even once you would be burned in Hell then here I have something stopping me from doing. However Atheists they have no such fears?
---

Well according to Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus we all believe in the same one "Almighty God" but others I dont know.



If the only requirement to get into heaven is false piety then I guess there is nothing to lose. 

If God is real, then wouldn't he know if you are thanking him with honesty?  I assume he'd know if you were doing it "just in case". It would be pointless for an atheist to do that, when he/she doesn't truly believe he's thanking anyone real.   
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 02:17:18 PM
Quote

If the only requirement to get into heaven is false piety then I guess there is nothing to lose. 

If God is real, then wouldn't he know if you are thanking him with honesty?  I assume he'd know if you were doing it "just in case". It would be pointless for an atheist to do that, when he/she doesn't truly believe he's thanking anyone real.   

God knows who is thanking him for real and who is not for sure, but again there are people thanking a false god and they think that he is the real god. For example the Arabs before the Prophet Mohammed some of them were honestly worshiping Allah however they were at the same time worshiping status! God said in the Quran that there are people who are doing good deeds and they think they are doing good but the problem they are on the wrong way.

For example which one is better, we have two ways, one takes you to hell and the other to heaven. You might be running and trying your best to be better than me in every aspect but the path you have chosen is the wrong path, this way it's better to be slow but on the right track. Another example is that tomorrow I am having an exam in History but I was honestly studying Math and then failed the History exam, can I use this excuse to my teacher: "Oh teacher I was honestly studying Math"!!!! in fact this once happened when I was kid  ;D This what god want us to know. That's why God said in the Quran >>>

"Say, `Shall WE tell you of those who are the greatest losers in respect of their works.' `Those whose labour is all lost in pursuit of the life of this world, and yet they imagine that they are doing good works.' Those are they who deny the Signs of their Lord and the meeting with HIM. So their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection WE shall give them no weight."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 04:08:00 PM
How are we mere mortals to know which one is the correct one, if the real God won't tell us?  It's all too silly for me.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 04:18:24 PM
I don't see how it's any different than the world we live in now... it just seems like people are being honest in Atheist world?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 04:25:51 PM
How are we mere mortals to know which one is the correct one, if the real God won't tell us?  It's all too silly for me.

How come God didn't tell us which one is right? if your someone who like Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus...etc who believe in the concept of "Almighty God" then you would realize he said that. In every old scriptures the message is same, it's to worship God and none beside him and not denying his existence. God clearly say it in the Quran and showed us the two way, the way of evil and the way of god and then he gave us the free will to choose which one we want to follow.

Suppose now we all know (Jews, Muslims, Christians...etc) tomorrow we have exam in History (Day of Judgment, Hell & Heaven). The Teacher told us listen my students, if you want to pass the history test read section ABC and ignore section XYZ, now those who listened and followed the teacher instructions would surely pass but those students who did the opposite for sure wouldn't pass even though they know that tomorrow's exam is History. This is the difference between we Muslims and others.

We understood the God's message clearly without changing any bit of his words, it's to worship him alone, but some students ignored the clear message and instructions of their god and followed instructions of other students who doesn't have the full knowledge about the contents of the test.


WE have created man from a mingled sperm-drop that WE might try him; so WE made him hearing, seeing. WE have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.

How we know, in addition to god's instructions use your common sense, can god's words contradicts itself? of course no, so if any book that contradicts it's own words ignore it and follow a book that cannot contradict itself. If that's not enough then test the one who is giving you the instruction, can God rest, sleep...etc? can almighty god get slapped or insulted? common sense would answer you NO WAY! because common sense have fixed attributes of God! He is almighty, all wise, all knowing, there is nothing like him....etc you would surely realize all false gods would fail in the test.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 04:32:42 PM
How are we mere mortals to know which one is the correct one, if the real God won't tell us?  It's all too silly for me.

How come God didn't tell us which one is right? if your someone who like Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus...etc who believe in the concept of "Almighty God" then you would realize he said that. In every old scriptures the message is same, it's to worship God and none beside him and not denying his existence. God clearly say it in the Quran and showed us the two way, the way of evil and the way of god and then he gave us the free will to choose which one we want to follow.

Suppose now we all know (Jews, Muslims, Christians...etc) tomorrow we have exam in History (Day of Judgment, Hell & Heaven). The Teacher told us listen my students, if you want to pass the history test read section ABC and ignore section XYZ, now those who listened and followed the teacher instructions would surely pass but those students who did the opposite for sure wouldn't pass even though they know that tomorrow's exam is History. This is the difference between we Muslims and others.

We understood the God's message clearly without changing any bit of his words, it's to worship him alone, but some students ignored the clear message and instructions of their god and followed instructions of other students who doesn't have the full knowledge about the contents of the test.


WE have created man from a mingled sperm-drop that WE might try him; so WE made him hearing, seeing. WE have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.

How we know, in addition to god's instructions use your common sense, can god's words contradicts itself? of course no, so if any book that contradicts it's own words ignore it and follow a book that cannot contradict itself. If that's not enough then test the one who is giving you the instruction, can God rest, sleep...etc? can almighty god get slapped or insulted? common sense would answer you NO WAY! because common sense have fixed attributes of God! He is almighty, all wise, all knowing, there is nothing like him....etc you would surely realize all false gods would fail in the test.

There have been times when I honestly started thinking "hey, maybe God does exsist... and maybe I'm going to hell!"

I would get really scared, so I'd start praying...

Praying not only produced zero results, but also made me feel like a complete and utter moron.

Your god did nothing to prove himself to me, and made me feel very lonely. Why would he do that to me?!

I'm not an idiot, if God came down right now and said "hey, I'm god... worship me", then I'd start believing.

Also, why is it that miracles only happened in the days of the bible? Why aren't they happening now? Does God not like our generation?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 04:39:33 PM
How do you know those instructions came from God? That is the question!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 04:43:55 PM
Quote

There have been times when I honestly started thinking "hey, maybe God does exsist... and maybe I'm going to hell!"

I would get really scared, so I'd start praying...

Praying not only produced zero results, but also made me feel like a complete and utter moron.

Your god did nothing to prove himself to me, and made me feel very lonely. Why would he do that to me?!

Dear Fluoresence,

Did you follow the way of God telling you how to pray? for example at the time of Mohammed peace be upon him some Arabs were praying to a piece of date (A kind of food) and they thought this pray would let Almighty god answer them! and god never did, is this a prove that he doesn't exists?

For example if I had to fight with a group of people and I want someone to help me, and I found a deaf man who can't hear my words, would he answer me and come to fight along side with me, of course not. Your prayer were the same, you were praying to a false god and a false method so how do you want him to answer you.

Quote
I'm not an idiot, if God came down right now and said "hey, I'm god... worship me", then I'd start believing.

That day your believe would be useless, Almighty god said in the Quran >>>

"They are but waiting that angels should come to them or that thy Lord should come or there should come some of the Signs of thy Lord. The day when some of the Signs of thy Lord shall come, it shall not profit a soul to believe, which had not believed before, nor earned any good by its faith. Say, `Wait ye, we too are waiting."

Quote
Also, why is it that miracles only happened in the days of the bible? Why aren't they happening now? Does God not like our generation?

I already answered this question before >>>

Almighty Allah already gave us the answer why :)

"But ALLAH would not punish them while thou wast among them, and ALLAH would not punish them while they sought forgiveness."

Today more than 1 Billion ask god for forgiveness 5 times on daily basis :)

Wallah there is no one more merciful than Allah, all praise to him

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 04:47:29 PM
How do you know those instructions came from God? That is the question!

I already posted dozen of proves that the Quran can never be from Human but only from someone who knows all, there are countless proves to this. If I am allowed I would post more than 500 topic and each topic includes 50 proves if you want but it's something people around here wouldn't like to see. However if you read some of my previous posts you would realize that the only answer is: "It's from god".

I am wondering why people never asked themselves this question, why a graduated muslim from School can win debates against Christians scholars, why only students of Quran can win all debates with followers of other religions even though the difference in experience and knowledge. The only answer is that because one side is using the truth while the other dont. Allah said in the Quran >>>

"And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 04:48:20 PM
Quote

Quote
Also, why is it that miracles only happened in the days of the bible? Why aren't they happening now? Does God not like our generation?

I already answered this question before >>>

Almighty Allah already gave us the answer why :)

"But ALLAH would not punish them while thou wast among them, and ALLAH would not punish them while they sought forgiveness."

Today more than 1 Billion ask god for forgiveness 5 times on daily basis :)

Wallah there is no one more merciful than Allah, all praise to him




I'm a bit confused, are you saying the reason Allah isn't answering people's prayers is because we are praying too much?

What?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 04:50:16 PM
Quote

I'm a bit confused, are you saying the reason Allah isn't answering people's prayers is because we are praying too much?

What?

No dear Fluorescence, I said this >>>

Quote
Did you follow the way of God telling you how to pray? for example at the time of Mohammed peace be upon him some Arabs were praying to a piece of date (A kind of food) and they thought this pray would let Almighty god answer them! and god never did, is this a prove that he doesn't exists?

You were praying to a false god, in a wrong way. How can you imagine a God answering your prayer when your praying to a false God.

Believe me the more you know about God the more you know how to reach him but sadly most of the people don't know the attributes of god that's why they are comparing him to his creation or putting him on the same category as limited being and then they blame him for not answering prayer...etc

Allah Said >>>

"I am so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having an associate. Thus he who does an action for someone else's sake as well as Mine will have that action renounced by Me to him whom he associated with Me."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 04:56:29 PM
How do you know those instructions came from God? That is the question!

I already posted dozen of proves that the Quran can never be from Human but only from someone who knows all, there are countless proves to this. If I am allowed I would post more than 500 topic and each topic includes 50 proves if you want but it's something people around here wouldn't like to see. However if you read some of my previous posts you would realize that the only answer is: "It's from god".

I am wondering why people never asked themselves this question, why a graduated muslim from School can win debates against Christians scholars, why only students of Quran can win all debates with followers of other religions even though the difference in experience and knowledge. The only answer is that because one side is using the truth while the other dont. Allah said in the Quran >>>

"And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish."

Who judges these debates?  If you are reading a debate, and one side believes as you do, then you are biased.  Quoting scriptures from the Quran doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 04:56:38 PM
Quote

I'm a bit confused, are you saying the reason Allah isn't answering people's prayers is because we are praying too much?

What?

No dear Fluorescence, I said this >>>

Quote
Did you follow the way of God telling you how to pray? for example at the time of Mohammed peace be upon him some Arabs were praying to a piece of date (A kind of food) and they thought this pray would let Almighty god answer them! and god never did, is this a prove that he doesn't exists?

You were praying to a false god, in a wrong way. How can you imagine a God answering your prayer when your praying to a false God.

Believe me the more you know about God the more you know how to reach him but sadly most of the people don't know the attributes of god that's why they are comparing him to his creation or putting him on the same category as limited being and then they blame him for not answering prayer...etc

Allah Said >>>

"I am so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having an associate. Thus he who does an action for someone else's sake as well as Mine will have that action renounced by Me to him whom he associated with Me."

Well, unfortunately... there's no way to know which 'God' is the real God.

What you're trying to argue is that Allah exists... which isn't an argument at all, really... because you can't prove it either way. You can argue endlessly, but it all comes down to faith. I respect you for trying, but faith is faith... and faith can't be argued with.

I remain fully agnostic until 'Allah' shows himself and proves it's him somehow.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:03:14 PM
Quote

Who judges these debates?  If you are reading a debate, and one side believes as you do, then you are biased.  Quoting scriptures from the Quran doesn't prove anything.

No way, when I for example debate a Christian I bring them proves from their own authentic book the "Bible" and if you did read my previous posts when I debate with my friends here I quote from their own books and then proving that the Quran says the same thing :) I can never prove to anyone anything if I quote from the Quran if in the first place they don't believe in the Quran. The method is to prove them using what they have ^_~
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 05:05:54 PM
If it says the same thing in both books, how does that prove them wrong?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:09:18 PM
Quote
What you're trying to argue is that Allah exists... which isn't an argument at all, really... because you can't prove it either way. You can argue endlessly, but it all comes down to faith. I respect you for trying, but faith is faith... and faith can't be argued with.


I admit the greatest thing you need to prove his existence if faith, but there are countless signs in our universe proving an existence of such almighty god, there are many books can prove you this both by using logic and other methods of calculations. As I said to our beloved moderator Mr. Osama, I can provide you dozens of books proving his existence but the question is, would you accept it or would continue denying for no reason? the problem is that some Atheists they don't want to change their believes like one of the members here, saying for example I am always Christians and I will always be, I am always Atheist and I will always be that just proves he is not ready to even know about the other side. You know how to describe such people :) while me a Muslim who knows that I am having the truth in my hands yet I am ready to listen to all of you and discuss and accept to change if you just found one single contradiction in the book I have.

Quote
I remain fully agnostic until 'Allah' shows himself and proves it's him somehow.

>>>



I will be waiting as well and I am sure this is what will happen >>>

"But whosoever will turn away from MY remembrance, his will be a straitened life, and on the Day of Resurrection WE shall raise him up blind. He will say, My Lord, why hast Thou raised me up blind, while I possessed sight before ?' God will say, Thus did OUR Signs come to thee and thou didst ignore them and in like manner wilt thou be ignored this day. And thus do WE recompense him who transgresses the limits of Divine Law and believes not in the Signs of his Lord; and the punishment of the Hereafter is even severer and more lasting. [/quote]

Quote
If it says the same thing in both books, how does that prove them wrong?

Because one of them contains contradiction while the other doesn't. For example if in the Turah God said in 5 verses listen ppl you should only worship me alone and if you ever associated another in worshiping I will punish for you ever.  Then after some pages the same book says exactly the opposite, that if you worshiped only one god you will be punished forever, now we can clearly say this book can never be from Book and this book contradicting itself. However in the Quran God in the first page for example says worship me alone and through all the book the same message clearly and he never contradicted himself. We can clearly say this book doesn't contain a single contradiction so it's not a wrong book :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 05:13:13 PM
Quote
What you're trying to argue is that Allah exists... which isn't an argument at all, really... because you can't prove it either way. You can argue endlessly, but it all comes down to faith. I respect you for trying, but faith is faith... and faith can't be argued with.

I remain fully agnostic until 'Allah' shows himself and proves it's him somehow.

I admit the greatest thing you need to prove his existence if faith, but there are countless signs in our universe proving an existence of such almighty god, there are many books can prove you this both by using logic and other methods of calculations. As I said to our beloved moderator Mr. Osama, I can provide you dozens of books proving his existence but the question is, would you accept it or would continue denying for no reason? the problem is that some Atheists they don't want to change their believes like one of the members here, saying for example I am always Christians and I will always be, I am always Atheist and I will always be that just proves he is not ready to even know about the other side. You know how to describe such people :) while me a Muslim who knows that I am having the truth in my hands yet I am ready to listen to all of you and discuss and accept to change if you just found one single contradiction in the book I have.

Quote
If it says the same thing in both books, how does that prove them wrong?

Because one of them contains contradiction while the other doesn't. For example if in the Turah God said in 5 verses listen ppl you should only worship me alone and if you ever associated another in worshiping I will punish for you ever.  Then after some pages the same book says exactly the opposite, that if you worshiped only one god you will be punished forever, now we can clearly say this book can never be from Book and this book contradicting itself. However in the Quran God in the first page for example says worship me alone and through all the book the same message clearly and he never contradicted himself. We can clearly say this book doesn't contain a single contradiction so it's not a wrong book :)



The Quran contradicts itself just as much as any other Holy Book does:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 02, 2008, 05:16:15 PM
All these religious books were written by men.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 02, 2008, 05:17:48 PM
The Wizard and the Glass doesn't contradict itself...is it therefore a true story?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 05:18:48 PM
The Wizard and the Glass doesn't contradict itself...is it therefore a true story?

Yes, and so is Moby-Dick.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:19:03 PM

Quote
The Quran contradicts itself just as much as any other Holy Book does:

Dear just because some Christians thought they can find a contradiction in the book of God doesn't mean they succeeded, Quran never contradicts itself, your welcome to be proved wrong along with anyone who thinks he can "Find a contradiction" here >>>

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23513.0
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:19:45 PM
All these religious books were written by men.

Prove me your claim :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 05:20:38 PM

Quote
The Quran contradicts itself just as much as any other Holy Book does:

Dear just because some Christians thought they can find a contradiction in the book of God doesn't mean they succeeded, Quran never contradicts itself, your welcome to be proved wrong along with anyone who thinks he can "Find a contradiction" here >>>

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23513.0

I provided a link to a website that lists several contradictions...

Now, I could just go to that thread you posted and copy and paste from that website I referred you too, or... you could just read the website.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:23:11 PM
Quote

I provided a link to a website that lists several contradictions...

Now, I could just go to that thread you posted and copy and paste from that website I referred you too, or... you could just read the website.

Please copy because I have already said in my topic that sites that talks about religion vs religion in my country is blocked. Please copy all the contradiction, I would appreciate it it... Also if your interested please read this topic carefully >>>

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23589.0


Space:
The Quranic way of life is far superior to the ‘isms’ that modern man has invented out of sheer ignorance. No humans can give you scientific facts that is being discovered now 1400 years back with no technology or magic available. No humans can write a book like the Quran even the Arabs who were considered the greatest ppl using the language failed to write even one Sura. The Quran does have historical miracles that no humans can tell, it does have miracles and signs in the universe, animals, insect, human, plants, earth, water, mountains...etc even 1400 years some of them are being discovered now and some still. I can create 100 topic for each subject like Quran Miracles in the Universe, Quran Miracles in Physics...etc but if I do this for sure the people would say he is trying to convert all of us. No other book on the face of earth written by human can give you such facts and details!? Who can give better guidance than the Creator Himself?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on October 02, 2008, 05:29:24 PM
Quote

I provided a link to a website that lists several contradictions...

Now, I could just go to that thread you posted and copy and paste from that website I referred you too, or... you could just read the website.

Please copy because I have already said in my topic that sites that talks about religion vs religion in my country is blocked. Please copy all the contradiction, I would appreciate it it... Also if your interested please read this topic carefully >>>

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23589.0


Space:
The Quranic way of life is far superior to the ‘isms’ that modern man has invented out of sheer ignorance. No humans can give you scientific facts that is being discovered now 1400 years back with no technology or magic available. No humans can write a book like the Quran even the Arabs who were considered the greatest ppl using the language failed to write even one Sura. The Quran does have historical miracles that no humans can tell, it does have miracles and signs in the universe, animals, insect, human, plants, earth, water, mountains...etc even 1400 years some of them are being discovered now and some still. I can create 100 topic for each subject like Quran Miracles in the Universe, Quran Miracles in Physics...etc but if I do this for sure the people would say he is trying to convert all of us. No other book on the face of earth written by human can give you such facts and details!? Who can give better guidance than the Creator Himself?

Here are a few from a different source:





# What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

   1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
   2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
   3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
   4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
   5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

# Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

   1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
   2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
   3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
   4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

# The first Muslim was Muhammad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?

   1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
   2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
   3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

# Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

   1. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48).  Also 4:116
   2. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

# Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

   1. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
   2. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
   3. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
   4. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

# Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

   1. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
   2. Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

# Is wine consumption good or bad?

   1. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
   2. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
   3. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 05:52:23 PM
Dear Fluorescence I really thank you for copying, please copy them in the "Quran Contradictions" topic so all people who thought it's contradiction would be proved wrong there. I did read all the question and none of them is a contradiction, even my youngest brother can answer you all and clarify it to you ^_^ but for now it's our prayer time. Catch you later :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on October 02, 2008, 09:18:07 PM
I recently had a class where the prof argued the essential choice in life was between orgasmic pleasure and spiritual pleasure. I think I made the right choice.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 02, 2008, 09:19:17 PM
I recently had a class where the prof argued the essential choice in life was between orgasmic pleasure and spiritual pleasure. I think I made the right choice.

And your choice  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 03, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
Space:
The Quranic way of life is far superior to the ‘isms’ that modern man has invented out of sheer ignorance. No humans can give you scientific facts that is being discovered now 1400 years back with no technology or magic available. No humans can write a book like the Quran even the Arabs who were considered the greatest ppl using the language failed to write even one Sura. The Quran does have historical miracles that no humans can tell, it does have miracles and signs in the universe, animals, insect, human, plants, earth, water, mountains...etc even 1400 years some of them are being discovered now and some still. I can create 100 topic for each subject like Quran Miracles in the Universe, Quran Miracles in Physics...etc but if I do this for sure the people would say he is trying to convert all of us. No other book on the face of earth written by human can give you such facts and details!? Who can give better guidance than the Creator Himself?

Prove your claim.  ;)

Don't worry about trying to convert any of us.  I doubt you'll have much luck.  All these miracles you speak of are stories written in a book, witnessed by no one living today. If you can provide proof of a miracle, I'd be happy to read about it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 03, 2008, 11:08:20 AM
The Wizard and the Glass doesn't contradict itself...is it therefore a true story?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 03, 2008, 12:32:31 PM
The Wizard and the Glass doesn't contradict itself...is it therefore a true story?

SORRY! I loved The Dark Tower, but The Wizard and Glass was my least favorite of the series.  I believe it's as true as the bible!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on October 03, 2008, 12:39:21 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about all athiests being sodomizing, cheating, sex-addicted, murdering fiends.  ???
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 03, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
Quote

Prove your claim.  ;)

Don't worry about trying to convert any of us.  I doubt you'll have much luck.  All these miracles you speak of are stories written in a book, witnessed by no one living today. If you can provide proof of a miracle, I'd be happy to read about it.

I don't know why I am feeling that people are scared of being converted by my posts, I swear I am not trying to convert any of you so please don't worry about that  ;D be at ease. The more you people I am trying to convert the other side the more it proves something to me that you don't want to hear :)

Dear Space just because some of us are not capable of seeing the signs of god in this universe it doesn't mean he doesn't exists. Just because it's something you cannot see it doesn't mean it doesn't exists. A very simple example that even child would understand, suppose now I am talking to you in a room and out side the room my younger brother is standing and hearing all our words, however we both don't can't see him because of the wall, does it mean he doesn't exists!!!!!! If one can't prove that something exists IT'S NOT A PROVE that he doesn't exists.  :) Because we cannot see God it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. Absence of proof is not proof of absence


"And there comes not to them any Sign of the Signs of their Lord, but they turn away from it. So they rejected the truth when it came to them; but soon shall come to them the tidings of that at which they mocked.


"And even if they see every Sign, they would not believe therein, so much so that when they come to thee, disputing with thee, those who disbelieve say, `This is nothing but fables of the ancients.' And they forbid others to believe in it and themselves too they keep away from it. And they ruin none but their ownselves; only they perceive not."

:)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 03, 2008, 05:58:34 PM
I don't think they'd make it all the way home.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 03, 2008, 07:46:56 PM
I don't think they'd make it all the way home.

Well, if they do, you can attribute that to God.

now that's correct, it would go exactly according to god's will so in the end I have to thank god :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on October 03, 2008, 07:54:38 PM
I don't think they'd make it all the way home.

Well, if they do, you can attribute that to God.

now that's correct, it would go exactly according to god's will so in the end I have to thank god :)
does the koran predict this miracle
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: TheBenCer on October 03, 2008, 08:44:02 PM
Atheists just believe in one less God than you do.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 03, 2008, 10:10:22 PM
Quote
does the koran predict this miracle

Atheists just believe in one less God than you do

One of the reasons of their believes is that they don't have a clear definition for the word "Creator"  or "Eternal" and if they had learned all the names and attributes of Almighty God they would have understood why we believe in one almighty god. We say God created the earth for us, placed it in the right place, and made it in a way so humans and living things could survive within it. While they say by chance...etc The only difference between us is that we require belief that God who has control and power was able to do it, while they have to believe in something which they don't have proof for either, but something which they have to put blind faith in, that it happened "By Chance."  I am surprised when some laugh on others for for having faith in God without seeing Him in this life, while they have blind faith in "chance" - and guess what my friend? They can't see "Chance" either :)


"And they say, `There is nothing for us but this our present life; we die and we live; and nothing but time destroys us.' But they have no real knowledge of it; they do nothing but conjecture."

"Say, `It is ALLAH Who gives you life, then causes you to die; then HE will gather you together unto the Day of Resurrection about which there is no doubt. But most men do not know. "
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 04, 2008, 12:15:36 AM
AbdulAziz :

Ideology that does not declare that the human is masters of everything is wrong and the blind ideology. God made what for who? God does not assist man. The West treats Muslims unreasonably, but they seek divine help. What has the god done for them? Muslims must free themselves.

However, opposed to Muslims is the racist, and many of you demonstrate greatly disrespects to AbdulAziz. This is not progressive.

God's message is very clear to us (Muslims) Allah, already told us about our purpose in life?

And I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to worship Me (51:56-58)

As simple as that, The purpose for man’s creation is to worship the Creator. The essence of Allah’s message through all of the prophets also was:  "O mankind, worship Allah, you have no deity other than Him." Allah further states that He made this life in order to test man so that every person may be recompensed after death for what he has earned:

"[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving."(67:2)

 
But in order to worship Him, we have to know Him well otherwise we may form a distorted concept of Him and then go astray. In the Quran Allah tells mankind what He is and what He is not.

Dear Zhong you should know that Islam is not a religion of “Blind Faith” as some members thinks, but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect. Allah in the Quran stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect and as you said believing alone is not enough there must be an action that's why we are given the "Free Will". A Muslim who is sitting and praying to god without any reasoning and taking any action how do you think he can achieve anything? then what's is the purpose of test, free will and those other concepts. I totally understand what your trying to say.

As for the disrespects I don't mind that ^_^ no hard feelings but I wish if they would not insult my god not because I would cry but because I am afraid god would ask me: "You heard them saying and insulting me clearly, why you stayed in such place" that's my only fear :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 04, 2008, 07:21:55 AM
The Americans without doubt hoped you go. You seem to create much stress and annoyance for them. I hope you stay for this reason. ;D

We don't really need Abdul. We could just buy a copy of the Koran
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 04, 2008, 08:54:08 AM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about all athiests being sodomizing, cheating, sex-addicted, murdering fiends.  ???
Not until you are the majority.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 05, 2008, 01:20:37 AM
The Americans without doubt hoped you go. You seem to create much stress and annoyance for them. I hope you stay for this reason. ;D

We don't really need Abdul. We could just buy a copy of the Koran

But I need you guys  ;D

Oh by the way, if you would buy the Quran, please read it and focus on this verse >>>

"Do they not ponder and meditate upon the Quran or do they keep locks upon their hearts?"
[Quran 47:24]

An hour’s contemplation is better than a year’s adoration :)

Space:
Do as what fluorescence asked you to do :)

Quote
"Is there any proof that God exists?" was asked, by an atheist, of Imam Abu Hanifa and he replied, "Forget it! At the moment, I am busy thinking about this ship. People tell me there is a big ship, it contains
different goods on board. There is no one to steer it, no one maintaining it. Yet, this ship keeps going back and forth; it even traverses big waves on the oceans; it stops at the locations that it is supposed to stop at; it continues in the direction that it is supposed to head. This ship has no captain and no one planning its trips."

The atheist who posed the question interrupted and exclaimed, "What kind of strange and silly thought is this? How can any intelligent person think that some thing like this can occur?"

Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it."

^
Old logic  ;D

---

Back to Topic

Why Atheists don't believe in the existence of God?

Can Atheists prove that God doesn't exists?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 05, 2008, 02:36:30 AM
Why Atheists don't believe in the existence of God?

That would vary from person to person, since atheism is not a belief system but a lack of one. Most atheists I've spoken to, however - and I would place myself in this category - don't believe in God because of a lack of evidence for his existence.

Can Atheists prove that God doesn't exists?

No.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 05, 2008, 08:34:38 AM
fluorescence told me to buy my own M&Ms, I want some Godly M&Ms.  >:(
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 05, 2008, 09:38:48 AM
They melt in your mouth; not in Hell.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Taraalcar on October 05, 2008, 09:53:39 AM
Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion :)

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~

This is a smart man. Listen to this man.
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 05, 2008, 03:07:40 PM
Quote
Why don't Atheists believe in the existence of God?

As Osama said, it varies between people. My own reason is that I used to be a Christian because during a gathering of other Christians I 'felt' a strong presence that I assumed to be God (hardly unreasonable considering the environment) but when I experienced other large gatherings of like-minded people I felt something similar, saw things similar and therefore deduced that the feeling was human-generated not God, from there I started examining my own beliefs more closely and there is no logical or observable evidence to point to a god, any god, Yahweh, Allah, Brahma, Zeus, Om or otherwise.

Quote
Can Atheists prove that God doesn't exist?

It depends what you mean by 'prove'. If you mean definitely, beyond-a-doubt assuredly then no, but then I can't prove that you exist to that level, I live in a model generated by my mind, you could be a delusion, I could be a delusion but so far as it is useful outside of an existential debate then I think we can say that god doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 05, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion :)

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~

This is a smart man. Listen to this man.
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)

Yeah.. we're gonna take your word for that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 05, 2008, 04:51:24 PM
Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion :)

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~

This is a smart man. Listen to this man.
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)
Obviously. Considering you are leading other christians astray, and not leading non christians to the path of god.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on October 05, 2008, 04:54:11 PM
There's a good argument for all monotheistic religions to share the same creator God, by whatever name you choose.  However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong, so in what is likely to be the longest-running and ridiculous act of idiocy in the history of the Universe millions of people have died over thousands of years, brutally murdered for no other reason than agreeing with each other.

Think on that when you try to tell me that the major organised religions make sense.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on October 05, 2008, 04:55:14 PM
There's a good argument for all monotheistic religions to share the same creator God, by whatever name you choose.  However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong, so in what is likely to be the longest-running and ridiculous act of idiocy in the history of the Universe millions of people have died over thousands of years, brutally murdered for no other reason than agreeing with each other.

Think on that when you try to tell me that the major organised religions make sense.
QFT
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 05, 2008, 05:26:16 PM
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)
Credibility right there.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on October 06, 2008, 12:25:04 AM
Stop me when I start to go wrong, but didn't Muhammed engage in paederasty, something which is plainly not allowed in Christianity? And since both Muhammed and Jesus were killed in Jerusalem, then came back to life and rose to heaven, then unless it was a fairly common phenomenon, and the fact that two major religions worship them for it casts doubt over that possibility, then it's fairer to assume that they were the same person than that they were different people who led exactly the same life. Hence Jesus was a paederast, hence Jesus is in hell, and since the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are one entity, because otherwise Christianity wouldn't be one of the major monotheistic religions. Hence God is in hell, Satan is in heaven, Charles Manson is the best person ever, the Bible is evil and everyone who has ever read it is damned.

Or it might just all be fiction. I have to say, the odds are stacked in favour of this option.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 06, 2008, 04:44:29 AM
Quote
and I would place myself in this category - don't believe in God because of a lack of evidence for his existence.

Well as I said previously Absence of proof is not proof of absence then why your taking such a risk because of the absence of proof? again there are many signs but I guess you don't care about them but some others only one sign like that it's enough for them to believe that God exists.

I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

See the the sun itself and think about it! one of more than 100 Billion stars in the galaxy according! How the outer layers of the Sun exhibit differential rotation: at the equator, how the surface rotates once every 25.4 days... How each second about 700,000,000 tons of hydrogen are converted to about 695,000,000 tons of helium and 5,000,000 tons of energy in the form of gamma rays...etc We call these signs

Try to ask yourself and think about it, give it some thoughts, This earth is just ONE planet in our Solar System and Our Solar System is just One of MANY solar systems... Our GALAXY, The Milky Way, is just ONE of the galaxies. There are ONE HUNDRED MILLION GALAXIES in the universe. They are ALL IN ORDER and they are all PRECISE. They are not COLLIDING with each other. They are not conflicting with one another. They are swimming along in a calculated orbit. Now... how do you explain the origin of this FLAWLESS & PERFECT Universe?

After all the above signs, is it ok for Atheists to take the risk to deny the existence of god without proof!? just because of there is an absence of proof!

"Do they not ponder and meditate upon the Quran or do they keep locks upon their hearts?"
[Quran 47:24]

I know some of you might ask me, then who created god? Seriously if they knew the definition of god and all of his attributes and names they wouldn't be asking this question. One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning; therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created. By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah!!!

Some people like Space Cowgirl or fluorescence would say, then why we can't see god!? My answer is as usual, Allah does not to do ungodly things. By definition, He is not like His creation and not within His creation. If we assume that He were to show up, what evidence do you have that you will believe in Him? Present a logical evidence that you will believe in Him if He were to show up! It is not logical to say: "I will believe in Him because He will be in front of me". The classical arguments presented in the Quran tell us that when miracles were revealed to people in the past, they said it is magic and that's why I quoted several verses before. I also talked about the purpose of this life and it was to worship Allah this life is no more but a test for us. Allah tests us and sends guidance to us -Will we obey Him (by doing good and abstaining from evil) without seeing Him? This is part of our test. If Allah was clearly watching us, while we watched Him - then none of us would even feel inclined to sin out of awe and fear for Him. We know it requires faith to believe in Allah without seeing Him. Yet there are many signs that He has given us which help us in accepting and strengthening in this faith.

In fact qe don't need to see God to believe in Him, and that's why the majority of mankind believes in Him. So if someone was to question why we can't see Him, then we say that we are ABLE to believe in Him without seeing Him, and the majority of mankind believe in Him. We believe this is because He created mankind this way, upon a fitrah [natural disposition] in which we know that a Higher Power exists and controls.

So if this majority are able to then similarly you are able to. Allah KNOWS that we can believe in Him without seeing Him, and that's why He doesn't have to show Himself to us in this life. He sends Messengers' with undeniable signs to show us that they are truly sent from God, informing us of the clear message.Then He will reward the believers and good doers by letting them see His Majesty on the Day of Judgment, and He will punish those who rejected Him, by never letting them see Him, because they rejected His Promise in this life. Now there would be two reasons why someone denies Allah, it's either because he is closed minded, or he has not reflected upon the signs of Almighty Allah. For the former, there is nothing we can do to , for the latter, Allah said in the Quran:

"We will show them Our Signs on the horizon and within themselves until it is clear to them that it is the truth" [Quran 41:53]

Quote
Yeah.. we're gonna take your word for that.

You don't have to listen to me, I suggest you to read my God's words, it's far better

Quote
Smart man? He's fucking arguing that the christian God doesn't exist by saying Allah exists, thinking that that statement somehow proves his circular retardedness.

It's logical to say: "God doesn't exist because there is no proof", but it's just plain idiotic to say: "the christian god doesn't exist because Allah is the real almighty God".

They're both fucking fairytales.

You're arguing which fairytale is more valid than the other, but what you don't realize is that they're both fucking made up.

So no, not smart at all... you ignorant cur.


So you put such efforts to prove me I am not smart, now that's an honor itself :)

Quote
isnt allah the same as the jew god and the christian god

Yeah Allah is god of All mankind, Muslims, Christians, Jews...etc but dear Panda, you know what's happening, Christians are insulting Allah, Jews are insulting Allah according to their own books. Because in their books which is supposed to be from God, the god is insulting himself! that's why I am saying no guys, these words can never be the words of the Almighty God Allah because Allah can never insult himself.

"Holy is HE and exalted far above what they attribute to HIM" [Quran 6:100]

Quote
I'm pretty sure they're not the same, at least westerners don't consider "Allah" to be the Christian God...

That's because they have accepted to worship a god with limits :) how would they except someone with unlimited powers, a true god! because the moment they do is the moment they should throw their religion and guess what this would never happen till the end of times :) The Quran gives the greatest definition of God >>>

"Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him." [Quran 112:1-4]

Quote
I don't fucking know. He doesn't exist either way.


"And they say, `There is nothing for us but this our present life; we die and we live; and nothing but time destroys us.' But they have no real knowledge of it; they do nothing but conjecture."

Quote
However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong,

Dear Matrix, I totally understand that, but Matrix honestly if I am wrong let him prove me wrong, wither by common sense or by my own book. If for example I want to prove a Christian is wrong, you prove him logically and by his own Book the "Bible" and sadly when we do this they ignore and blindly follow their path. Wallah I swear I am ready to change my RELIGION if you just found 1 simple contradiction or mistake in Quran just find 1 and I am ready to change. However Christians, Jews..etc there are countless proves that it contains contradictions according to their own scholars yet they are blindly following their believe.

Quote
Stop me when I start to go wrong, but didn't Muhammed engage in paederasty, something which is plainly not allowed in Christianity? And since both Muhammed and Jesus were killed in Jerusalem, then came back to life and rose to heaven

From where did you read this!? this is the first time I hear of such a thing. Mohammed never died and revived, Mohammed died a normal death he didn't die there and rose to heaven! Mohammed was the last messenger of the same almighty God. Believe me if you did seriously read my previous posts in other topics you would realize how much are misguided.



"And there comes not to them any Sign of the Signs of their Lord, but they turn away from it. So they rejected the truth when it came to them; but soon shall come to them the tidings of that at which they mocked.


"And even if they see every Sign, they would not believe therein, so much so that when they come to thee, disputing with thee, those who disbelieve say, `This is nothing but fables of the ancients.' And they forbid others to believe in it and themselves too they keep away from it. And they ruin none but their ownselves; only they perceive not."

"This is a sufficient admonition for mankind that they may benefit by it and that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that HE is the only One God and that those possessed of understanding may take heed."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: MadDogX on October 06, 2008, 05:07:25 AM
Quote
I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

Sorry, I didn't read your entire post because it was very long, but this particular paragraph drew my attention. You seem to be drawing a number misleading conclusions out of false assumptions.

For one, if the Earth were "one metre closer or further from the sun", we wouln't notice a difference. In fact, the distance from Earth to the Sun varies by several million kilometers due to a slightly elliptical orbit.

Secondly, you are looking at the solar system and interpreting it as a "sign", because it appears special to you. Sure, it's an extremely large and complex system and it appears to work flawlessly. Creationists make a similar argument about the complexity of life. But who's to say it couldn't have worked in an infinite number of different ways, and this is just how it happened to turn out? On that matter, who's to say our solar system is unique? There could be millions of planets in temperate "sweet spots" out there. (In fact, I believe Gliese 436c is a candidate for this.)

What I'm trying to say is: complexity does not imply divine wisdom.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 06, 2008, 05:13:04 AM
Quote
I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

The orbit of the Earth is eccentric, it isn't faultless

Precise alternation of Night and day. Sorry, what? Are you suggesting there should be a third period, or thatthe Earth speeds up and slows down?

1m back or forward? Sources please


Quote
See the the sun itself and think about it! one of more than 100 Billion stars in the galaxy according! How the outer layers of the Sun exhibit differential rotation: at the equator, how the surface rotates once every 25.4 days... How each second about 700,000,000 tons of hydrogen are converted to about 695,000,000 tons of helium and 5,000,000 tons of energy in the form of gamma rays...etc We call these signs


I call these expected outcomes of nuclear reactions

Quote
Try to ask yourself and think about it, give it some thoughts, This earth is just ONE planet in our Solar System and Our Solar System is just One of MANY solar systems... Our GALAXY, The Milky Way, is just ONE of the galaxies. There are ONE HUNDRED MILLION GALAXIES in the universe. They are ALL IN ORDER and they are all PRECISE. They are not COLLIDING with each other. They are not conflicting with one another. They are swimming along in a calculated orbit. Now... how do you explain the origin of this FLAWLESS & PERFECT Universe?

Precise by what calculation? You're simply asserting that the universe is perfect with no justification. Surely a PERFECT universe would eliminate threatening meteors from hitting inhabited worlds, life would be able to exist very easily on one of the many countless worlds with perfectly circular orbits around perfectly stable suns etc etc.

Quote
After all the above signs, is it ok for Atheists to take the risk to deny the existence of god without proof!? just because of there is an absence of proof!


I can't see that you need a god for the above 'signs'

Quote
"Do they not ponder and meditate upon the Quran or do they keep locks upon their hearts?"
[Quran 47:24]

You may as well be quoting from Harry Potter

Quote
I know some of you might ask me, then who created god? Seriously if they knew the definition of god and all of his attributes and names they wouldn't be asking this question. One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning; therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created. By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah!!!

What does god do for the huge timespan where nothing was alive? If he existed fine without a universe for eternity then what made him decide to bring us into being?

Quote
Some people like Space Cowgirl or fluorescence would say, then why we can't see god!? My answer is as usual, Allah does not to do ungodly things. By definition, He is not like His creation and not within His creation. If we assume that He were to show up, what evidence do you have that you will believe in Him? Present a logical evidence that you will believe in Him if He were to show up! It is not logical to say: "I will believe in Him because He will be in front of me". The classical arguments presented in the Quran tell us that when miracles were revealed to people in the past, they said it is magic and that's why I quoted several verses before. I also talked about the purpose of this life and it was to worship Allah this life is no more but a test for us. Allah tests us and sends guidance to us -Will we obey Him (by doing good and abstaining from evil) without seeing Him? This is part of our test. If Allah was clearly watching us, while we watched Him - then none of us would even feel inclined to sin out of awe and fear for Him. We know it requires faith to believe in Allah without seeing Him. Yet there are many signs that He has given us which help us in accepting and strengthening in this faith.


Exactly, so why 'test' his little puppets at all? If anything I would say a testing god is malevolant.


Quote
In fact qe don't need to see God to believe in Him, and that's why the majority of mankind believes in Him. So if someone was to question why we can't see Him, then we say that we are ABLE to believe in Him without seeing Him, and the majority of mankind believe in Him. We believe this is because He created mankind this way, upon a fitrah [natural disposition] in which we know that a Higher Power exists and controls.

No, majority believe in SOMETHING,whether that's yahweh, allah, Brahma. Truth is not statistical

Quote
So if this majority are able to then similarly you are able to. Allah KNOWS that we can believe in Him without seeing Him, and that's why He doesn't have to show Himself to us in this life. He sends Messengers' with undeniable signs to show us that they are truly sent from God, informing us of the clear message.Then He will reward the believers and good doers by letting them see His Majesty on the Day of Judgment, and He will punish those who rejected Him, by never letting them see Him, because they rejected His Promise in this life. Now there would be two reasons why someone denies Allah, it's either because he is closed minded, or he has not reflected upon the signs of Almighty Allah. For the former, there is nothing we can do to , for the latter, Allah said in the Quran:

give me LSD and I can see dancing pink elephants


Quote
Quote
Smart man? He's fucking arguing that the christian God doesn't exist by saying Allah exists, thinking that that statement somehow proves his circular retardedness.

It's logical to say: "God doesn't exist because there is no proof", but it's just plain idiotic to say: "the christian god doesn't exist because Allah is the real almighty God".

Well, yeah.

Quote
They're both fucking fairytales.

You're arguing which fairytale is more valid than the other, but what you don't realize is that they're both fucking made up.

So no, not smart at all... you ignorant cur.


uh-huh... thats as much as I can respond to now....


Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 06, 2008, 05:26:47 AM
Beautiful, you guys just proved me that your at least reading what I posted. Hopefully the others as well read :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on October 06, 2008, 05:30:52 AM
It's Aku not Allah, I hate it when people get it wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 06, 2008, 06:21:00 AM
I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

As MadDogX said, one metre wouldn't make any difference at all. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle).

See the the sun itself and think about it! one of more than 100 Billion stars in the galaxy according! How the outer layers of the Sun exhibit differential rotation: at the equator, how the surface rotates once every 25.4 days... How each second about 700,000,000 tons of hydrogen are converted to about 695,000,000 tons of helium and 5,000,000 tons of energy in the form of gamma rays...etc We call these signs

Signs of what? Why are these numbers so special?

Try to ask yourself and think about it, give it some thoughts, This earth is just ONE planet in our Solar System and Our Solar System is just One of MANY solar systems... Our GALAXY, The Milky Way, is just ONE of the galaxies. There are ONE HUNDRED MILLION GALAXIES in the universe. They are ALL IN ORDER and they are all PRECISE. They are not COLLIDING with each other. They are not conflicting with one another. They are swimming along in a calculated orbit. Now... how do you explain the origin of this FLAWLESS & PERFECT Universe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Shoemaker-Levy_9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Shoemaker-Levy_9)

By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants.

That doesn't sound logical to me.

In fact qe don't need to see God to believe in Him, and that's why the majority of mankind believes in Him. So if someone was to question why we can't see Him, then we say that we are ABLE to believe in Him without seeing Him, and the majority of mankind believe in Him. We believe this is because He created mankind this way, upon a fitrah [natural disposition] in which we know that a Higher Power exists and controls.

Some people also have a natural disposition to commit murder, does that make it right?

Now there would be two reasons why someone denies Allah, it's either because he is closed minded, or he has not reflected upon the signs of Almighty Allah.

Or, perhaps, that their interpretation of such signs is different to yours?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on October 06, 2008, 07:17:12 AM
Abdul, does it not seem odd that in your Universe of perfect order, entropy (chaos) should always be increasing?

Any theory that goes against thermodynamics is doomed. Fact.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 06, 2008, 07:19:10 AM
I love when people think that one meter in difference effects anything in cosmic terms. Does everyone here know that in the northern hemisphere we are thousands of kilometers farther from the sun during the summer than during the winter?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 06, 2008, 07:34:33 AM
Abdul, does it not seem odd that in your Universe of perfect order, entropy (chaos) should always be increasing?

Any theory that goes against thermodynamics is doomed. Fact.

That reminds me, I once had a Christian try to tell me that the Big Bang theory violates the laws of thermodynamics but creationism doesn't.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 06, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
Atheists are not waiting for miracles, they don't believe in miracles.  The rest of the post was tl;dr.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 06, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
I love when people think that one meter in difference effects anything in cosmic terms. Does everyone here know that in the northern hemisphere we are thousands of kilometers farther from the sun during the summer than during the winter?
Take care of us, Raist-sensei!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 06, 2008, 07:57:44 PM
No you didn't, we all know you just made that up to be funny.

On the First Law of Thermodynamics:

Quote
This law therefore is not only supported by the Bible, but likewise, the Bible is supported by the law. But now does the law correlate with the theory of evolution? Evolution claims that all things were generated by "chance" from essentially nothing; that nothing created some of the matter and energy of the universe, but over time more and more of it evolved; simply stated in other words, that creation is still a work in progress. Henceforth, this theory lies in direct contradiction to the first law, and is in no honest way supported by it. This law of the conservation of matter and energy rather testifies that all that exists must've been the work of a Creator, since it states not one process in nature can create additional matter/energy.

On the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

Quote
This thermodynamic law of increasing entropy is not only biblically, but scientifically irrefutable; but, in relation to the belief of evolution, it ever­so­clearly declares the dead opposite. The theory which says there is an increase in complexity and order over time, instead of a decrease, has a terrible problem­facing with science.

This big contrariety to the law is not unknown by evolutionists either. "As far as we know, all changes are in the direction of increasing entropy, of increasing disorder, of increasing randomness, of running down," even atheist Issac Asimov admitted. Regardless of its lucidity however, many evolutionists have proposed an argument to it­ the "open­system" argument­ in which they plead that a decrease in entropy is indeed possible given an open­system and an available influx of energy. An example of this is the decreasing entropy within a blooming flower under the solar energy from sunlight. While it is indeed true that this type of increase in order (decrease in entropy) is
possible within an open system, it occurs only at the expense of the overall order of the larger eternal system decreasing. The question for the evolutionist then is not "how can it be possible for a plant to grow from its seed?" but, under this second law of thermodynamics, "how can you figure the biosphere as a whole to evolve into higher order?"
The problem with that last question is that whatever the evolutionary claim be, there is no logical support for it. This is because while having an open system and an available flow of energy to it are necessary conditions for decreasing the system's entropy, they are not sufficient by themselves. In addition, the system must contain a program to direct
the growth in complexity (such as the "genetic code" in DNA), as well as a mechanism for storing and converting the incoming energy (examples including photosynthesis in plants, and metabolism in animals). If evolution is really true, then there must be a reasonable explanation for what the pre­existing program and mechanism was that directed the inorganic chemicals of the primordial soup to become the first replicating life form.


And again, later:

Quote
As the above chart shows, there are no conceivable programs or mechanisms that could have possibly fulfilled the role of creating the first living cell from inorganic particles. The program and mechanism of which the evolutionary theory suggests for the production of complex organisms from the first organic cell are natural selection and mutations. However, as it turns out, natural selection can by no means lead to continual improvement; it can merely maintain the features of which organisms already had. While it may serve as a preservative "program," ridding out harmful mutations, natural selections can not specify the growth of more complex systems.

Furthermore, biological evidence leans heavily toward the position that mutations­ mere random changes that occur in genes by mistake­ can by no means increase the order within any organism. While mutations do alternate and destroy preexisting genetic information, they cannot add new information. In more scientific terms, mutations can cause micro evolution, where characteristics of a species may be slightly contorted, but they can not generate macro evolution, the foundational claim for the entire theory of evolution which supposes that one species can reproduce to form an entirely new kind of species. As exemplified in the words of John MacArthur:

  While it is easy to understand how a species of insect might
  through genetic mutations lose its wings and its ability to fly
  [micro evolution], there is no known genetic process that
  might explain how any species of nonflying creatures could
  develop anything as complex as wings and aerodynamic
  capabilities [macro evolution].

Indeed laboratory experiments have been conducted, wherein fruit flies were able to adopt the freakish alteration of growing legs from their heads. This mutation was merely the result of changes in the fruit flies' existing structure, and were by no means displaying any sign of transforming into an entirely new kind of species. Furthermore, while these flies could be bred under specific laboratory conditions, they are, however, incapable of survival in nature due to this harmful mutation.


And, yet again:

Quote
Even though the law of increasing entropy is undeniably at work in our universe, and showing now more than ever before, this belief in irrationality, in complete opposition to scientific reality, in essential impossibility, is still highly favored over creation by so many people. As an evolutionist himself, Jeremy Rifkin has confessed:

      We believe that evolution somehow magically creates
      greater overall value and order on earth. Now that the
      environment we live in is becoming so dissipated and
      disordered that it is apparent to the naked eye, we are
      beginning for the first time to have second thoughts about our
      views on evolution, progress, and the creation of things of
      material value...Evolution means the creation of larger and
      larger islands of order at the expense of even greater seas of
      disorder in the world. There is not a single biologist or       
      physicist who can deny this central truth. Yet, who is willing
      to stand up in a classroom or before a public forum and admit
      it?


Finally, on the Third Law of Thermodynamics:

Quote
The last of these laws is the most obvious to our mere human common sense, yet it has still been "tampered with" just as much as (if not, more than) the preceding two. The third law of thermodynamics­ the law of causality­ proclaims that without a cause, there could be no effect. The cause is always greater than the effect. As mentioned in the previous   chapter, no cause has been given for the "Big Bang" hypothesis of the theory of evolution (chance is not a cause). It merely claims that nothing created everything, a statement not only impossible, but senseless. Clearly, the only model of the origin of the universe which this law backs up is the Genesis record of creation.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 16, 2008, 10:35:48 AM
Interesting that athiests claim they are all moral, when evidence shows otherwise.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 16, 2008, 02:40:22 PM
Interesting that athiests claim they are all moral, when evidence shows otherwise.

I don't think anybody claimed that all atheists are moral, any more than you would claim that all Christians are moral. I don't see what relevance it has to your argument that some atheists perform immoral actions.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 16, 2008, 04:38:43 PM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on October 16, 2008, 04:41:04 PM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

You might be confusing us with anarchists.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: The Anarchist on October 16, 2008, 04:47:51 PM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

You might be confusing us with anarchists.
More like psychopaths.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 16, 2008, 07:12:53 PM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Christians have a reason to be immoral, too. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill. Most atheists don't just go killing people on a whim.

I don't understand what you're trying to say, either. Even if it were true that atheists acted the way described in the OP, how does that make God any more likely to exist?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 16, 2008, 07:26:31 PM
So it's immoral to prevent murder?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on October 16, 2008, 07:37:47 PM
So it's immoral to prevent murder?

It's moral do commit murder?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 16, 2008, 07:54:09 PM
I don't understand what you're trying to say, either. Even if it were true that atheists acted the way described in the OP, how does that make God any more likely to exist?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: monkeybradders on October 17, 2008, 02:19:41 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Just for shits and giggles. What were the crusades all about? and the troubles in Northern Ireland? and pretty much all the wars in between?

Were they because an atheist had sex with a hooker or smoked pot?

Knob end
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on October 17, 2008, 02:35:43 AM
So it's immoral to prevent murder?

No, of course it isn't. Had he been doing that, he would have been a hero. He committed murder because he's a maniac. It's very disturbing that when you hear voices, you're insane, but as soon as they claim to be God, anything they say is justified for some people.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on October 17, 2008, 02:42:03 AM
There's a good argument for all monotheistic religions to share the same creator God, by whatever name you choose.  However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong, so in what is likely to be the longest-running and ridiculous act of idiocy in the history of the Universe millions of people have died over thousands of years, brutally murdered for no other reason than agreeing with each other.

Think on that when you try to tell me that the major organised religions make sense.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on October 17, 2008, 05:07:10 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Christians are moral because they fear hell or want heaven. And your either trolling poorly or have turned on your retard switch.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on October 17, 2008, 05:32:43 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Christians are moral because they fear hell or want heaven. And your either trolling poorly or have turned on your Christian switch.

Common mistake, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference with some, but fixt nonetheless.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 17, 2008, 08:37:16 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Just for shits and giggles. What were the crusades all about? and the troubles in Northern Ireland? and pretty much all the wars in between?

Were they because an atheist had sex with a hooker or smoked pot?

Knob end

to be fair the troubles were about Unionists and Nationalists, the religious element just helped to sustain it by keeping the people separate and indoctrinating them.

A better example of religion being the cause of conflict is the massacre of Christians in Osseria (I think) by Hindus.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 17, 2008, 08:38:39 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, Athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Heaven/hell. moral high-ground lost.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Jesus Crotch on October 17, 2008, 09:48:21 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, Athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Heaven/hell. moral high-ground lost.

Which part of the bible am I supposed to take my morals from?  Deuteronomy?  Daniel?  Revelations!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on October 17, 2008, 09:51:47 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

No, atheists have morals.  It's natural to know what will make someone hurt and what will make someone happy.  For example, a nice person knows not to steal or do shit like that because it will hurt someone else.  It has nothing to do with the Bible.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 17, 2008, 09:54:32 AM
Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

No, atheists have morals.  It's natural to know what will make someone hurt and what will make someone happy.  For example, a nice person knows not to steal or do shit like that because it will hurt someone else.  It has nothing to do with the Bible.

amen
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on October 17, 2008, 10:05:35 AM
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3481/jri576sidpsj0.png)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wakka Wakka on October 17, 2008, 10:13:46 PM
Personally I see no problem with religion though I am more of an agnostic or deist myself.  The only problem i see with certain religion is that everything good comes with the fact that the consequence will be horrible.  I also find it horrendous to say that one religion is right, while condeming all others. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 18, 2008, 04:22:04 AM
Personally I see no problem with religion though I am more of an agnostic or deist myself.  The only problem i see with certain religion is that everything good comes with the fact that the consequence will be horrible.  I also find it horrendous to say that one religion is right, while condemning all others. 

Precisely what drives religious hatred. atheists attack religions by making snide comments or saying 'my aren't you stupid.' Religious people attack other religions by burning down their places of worship and forcing them to convert on pain of death.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/01/india.religion
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on October 20, 2008, 09:55:12 AM
orite, it doesn't. Also, I think the atheist approach is more logical. Mentally tormenting stupid people is better than kicking enlightened indivduals in the face. That's not saying that all atheists are smart and all religious people are idiots, but still, these are the worst consequences that can come off each practice.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on October 20, 2008, 10:08:28 AM
orite, it doesn't. Also, I think the atheist approach is more logical. Mentally tormenting stupid people is better than kicking enlightened indivduals in the face. That's not saying that all atheists are smart and all religious people are idiots, but still, these are the worst consequences that can come off each practice.

Expect to get the Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot argument here...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on October 20, 2008, 12:10:46 PM
What does that have to do with my post?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 21, 2008, 01:05:00 AM
What does that have to do with my post?

This is the point where theists tend to shout out "Atheism leads to Nazi Germany, Hitler was an Atheist blah blah blah"
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 21, 2008, 01:15:19 AM
What does that have to do with my post?

This is the point where theists tend to shout out "Atheism leads to Nazi Germany, Hitler was an Atheist blah blah blah"
1. Do you believe in evolution?

2. Do you want the betterment of the human race?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Daz555 on October 21, 2008, 02:53:08 AM
1. Do you believe in evolution?

2. Do you want the betterment of the human race?
Define 'believe' in this context as the word often implies some sort of faith, which can be misleading.

What do you mean by 'betterment'?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on October 21, 2008, 05:52:20 AM
What do you mean by 'betterment'?
This is why that argument is flawed
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 21, 2008, 07:30:35 AM
What does that have to do with my post?

This is the point where theists tend to shout out "Atheism leads to Nazi Germany, Hitler was an Atheist blah blah blah"
1. Do you believe in evolution?

2. Do you want the betterment of the human race?
Theists are usually the ones that believe in better.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on October 21, 2008, 08:38:28 AM
1. I have come to accept the validity of the occurrence of evolution, but do not know enough about the theory of evolution to form an opinion on its validity.
2. If by betterment, you mean moral betterment, then yes. Now, it all depends on whose morals to use. I believe mine are fairly sound. How about you? Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't have any of your own. :D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on October 21, 2008, 02:59:10 PM
it all depends on whose morals to use. I believe mine are fairly sound. How about you? Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't have any of your own. :D
well played
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on October 23, 2008, 04:32:18 AM
orite, it doesn't. Also, I think the atheist approach is more logical. Mentally tormenting stupid people is better than kicking enlightened indivduals in the face. That's not saying that all atheists are smart and all religious people are idiots, but still, these are the worst consequences that can come off each practice.

Expect to get the Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot argument here...
Quote from: Hitleypoos in 1922
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on October 23, 2008, 11:39:12 AM
Why does everybody think Hitler was an atheist?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 23, 2008, 11:41:26 AM
Why does everybody think whether Hitler was an Atheist or not even matters?

Fixed
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on October 23, 2008, 11:52:25 AM
You didn't fix it, you just changed it to an equally valid, but nonetheless entirely different question!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: therapist on October 23, 2008, 07:22:15 PM
wow. are you kidding me?
 i looked up how many athiests there are and this came up. i was pissed after reading what that guy said.

im an athiest. i have no problem with christians.. jews.. muslims.. or any religion. i have morals. i don't drink or smoke. this thread is pointless and inaccurate.

i've never used science to disprove a god. but ive never seen any proof of god. whenever i've asked for proof i got either A. the reason that person believes in god (IE. the human blood clotting system requiring ALOT of things to be functioning in your body to function properly) or B. "you must have faith."

here is the reason i don't believe in god. it's not scientific, just logical. and i pose it in the form of a few questions.

Who wrote the bible? Where did this person get all this information? Why should we take a book written HUNDREDS of years ago seriously? If Harry Potter had been writen hundreds of years ago, would you believe in a hogwarts just like you believe in heaven?

The way i see it religion is a good thing. It has started a few wars, but without it, most people have no reason to live.

so. What lead you to believe that athiests were immoral?

I'm not going to try and convince anyone there is no god, i could be wrong. maybe there is an upper diety that noone can possibly fatham.

and ill close with this. there will never be any proof of a reason for our existance. and no scientific evidence that can disprove a god will ever be accepted because of the "you must have faith" card.

thanks for your time
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 23, 2008, 07:30:38 PM
wow. are you kidding me?
 i looked up how many athiests there are and this came up. i was pissed after reading what that guy said.

im an athiest. i have no problem with christians.. jews.. muslims.. or any religion. i have morals. i don't drink or smoke. this thread is pointless and inaccurate.

i've never used science to disprove a god. but ive never seen any proof of god. whenever i've asked for proof i got either A. the reason that person believes in god (IE. the human blood clotting system requiring ALOT of things to be functioning in your body to function properly) or B. "you must have faith."

here is the reason i don't believe in god. it's not scientific, just logical. and i pose it in the form of a few questions.

Who wrote the bible? Where did this person get all this information? Why should we take a book written HUNDREDS of years ago seriously? If Harry Potter had been writen hundreds of years ago, would you believe in a hogwarts just like you believe in heaven?

The way i see it religion is a good thing. It has started a few wars, but without it, most people have no reason to live.

so. What lead you to believe that athiests were immoral?

I'm not going to try and convince anyone there is no god, i could be wrong. maybe there is an upper diety that noone can possibly fatham.

and ill close with this. there will never be any proof of a reason for our existance. and no scientific evidence that can disprove a god will ever be accepted because of the "you must have faith" card.

thanks for your time
The context the two books were written in is what distinguishes them. Considering the bible is more a compilation than a book.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: therapist on October 23, 2008, 07:47:20 PM
alright.. so what if the bible is a compilation? WHERE WAS the infomation gathered? my personal guess. taverns. by people in the tavern. people who have consumed (C2H5OH), people whos train of thought has been distorted by (C2H5OH).

you probably have a different opinion. but, correct me if im wrong but its something like this
"a man found a shitload of golden tablets with writing from a different language, one noone had seen, so he prayed and god gave him the ability to read it, told everyone he was the only one who could read it and translated it"

well at least thats my theory on the book of mormons (im EX-mormon)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 23, 2008, 07:57:51 PM
alright.. so what if the bible is a compilation? WHERE WAS the infomation gathered? my personal guess. taverns. by people in the tavern. people who have consumed (C2H5OH), people whos train of thought has been distorted by (C2H5OH).

you probably have a different opinion. but, correct me if im wrong but its something like this
"a man found a shitload of golden tablets with writing from a different language, one noone had seen, so he prayed and god gave him the ability to read it, told everyone he was the only one who could read it and translated it"

well at least thats my theory on the book of mormons (im EX-mormon)

That is the book of mormons yes.... Which has nothing to do with the bible. Harry Potter was written with the intent to entertain. The Bible was based on traditions, stories, and beliefs.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on October 24, 2008, 09:07:38 AM
Quote
but without it, most people have no reason to live.

If they have no reason to live other than religion then I would say that they might as well take themselves closer to their god by jumping off a cliff.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on October 24, 2008, 12:10:57 PM
Quote
but without it, most people have no reason to live.

If they have no reason to live other than religion then I would say that they might as well take themselves closer to their god by jumping off a cliff.
Early Christisn churches had some problems with that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on October 24, 2008, 04:57:16 PM
Quote
but without it, most people have no reason to live.

If they have no reason to live other than religion then I would say that they might as well take themselves closer to their god by jumping off a cliff.
Early Christisn churches had some problems with that.
Jesus' love always has it's complications, eh?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on October 24, 2008, 05:03:18 PM
I think all atheists should kill themselves to see if they are right.  And then come back and report.

Hurry up.  Go ahead.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 24, 2008, 05:07:01 PM
I think all atheists should kill themselves to see if they are right.  And then come back and report.

Hurry up.  Go ahead.

? why?

That's an ignorant non christian statement. As a christian it is our job to let as many people as possible see the light before they die. Hoping someone dies atheist is not a very christian thing to ask. Sounds bitter.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: divito the truthist on October 24, 2008, 05:12:00 PM
Sounds idiotic.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Euclid on October 24, 2008, 05:14:09 PM
Sounds trollish.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Oscar Wilde on October 24, 2008, 05:17:53 PM
It's Wardogg... ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on October 24, 2008, 06:06:40 PM
I think all atheists should kill themselves to see if they are right.  And then come back and report.

Hurry up.  Go ahead.

? why?

That's an ignorant non christian statement. As a christian it is our job to let as many people as possible see the light before they die. Hoping someone dies atheist is not a very christian thing to ask. Sounds bitter.

Our job?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on October 25, 2008, 12:08:05 AM
He probably doesn't know that you have a real job fixing aeroplanes. Anyway, that's one of the things that I find kind of interesting. I don't really fear death, as much as I want to see if I'm right. And if I am, then there's nothing to worry about, since nonexistence means I won't suffer from it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on October 25, 2008, 11:00:59 AM
I think all atheists should kill themselves to see if they are right.  And then come back and report.

Hurry up.  Go ahead.

? why?

That's an ignorant non christian statement. As a christian it is our job to let as many people as possible see the light before they die. Hoping someone dies atheist is not a very christian thing to ask. Sounds bitter.

Our job?
Oh, i forgot, you aren't a real christian. duh.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on October 31, 2008, 06:45:59 PM
No one deleted the pic other than the people who run tinypic.com.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on October 31, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
do you think in the future people would be able to talk to the dead or reviving the dead or time travel?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on October 31, 2008, 07:37:19 PM
do you think in the future people would be able to talk to the dead or reviving the dead or time travel?

Talk to the dead? Yes, but don't expect them to listen or respond.

Revive the dead? Possible, but unlikely.

Time travel? Possible, but unlikely.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on November 01, 2008, 12:23:35 PM
do you think in the future people would be able to talk to the dead or reviving the dead or time travel?
No, in the future everyone will be dead.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on November 01, 2008, 12:24:45 PM
Depressing, but accurate.  :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on November 01, 2008, 12:47:24 PM
Whose future are we talking about here?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on November 01, 2008, 02:04:22 PM
We may be able to prevent brain death, but I don't think we'll be able to cure it once it happens.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on November 01, 2008, 03:35:05 PM
Our neighbouring galaxy will collide with our own and our own sun will devour us, how will brain preservation help prevent this?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on November 01, 2008, 03:35:38 PM
Our neighbouring galaxy will collide with our own

What does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: The Anarchist on November 01, 2008, 03:41:10 PM
Our neighbouring galaxy will collide with our own and our own sun will devour us, how will brain preservation help prevent this?
We can be floating brains in space.

Like in Futurama.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: PastafarianGuy on November 15, 2008, 08:12:57 PM
So removing God from science is a bad idea? Atheism isn't a religion, MrKappa, it's the lack of one.

Ask a religious zealot why how the universe was created he will probably say God. Ask an Atheist how the universe was created and they will say the big bang. Neither have the proof to back their claim. They both preach doctrine and have faith in what they cannot know.


I do not absolutely believe that the universe started with the Big Bang.  Maybe a more sound theory that has similar effect to the big bang explains it better...  or maybe we live in the 3rd universe after the first 2 expanded and collapsed.  Obviously God created the first one, and we definitely do not live in the 4th universe (because we all know that would just be ridiculous!)

Does anybody know?  The answer is no, so everyone makes up all sorts of bullshit that sounds good.  Of course, firmly believing in something that is disproportionally silly (i.e. Flat-Earth, religion) makes you look like a fool.  Hahaha, but you can't invent atheism (unless you see things in the perspective that your chosen religion is true, then the first people could be Jews or something and later people made up atheism, but I digress).  I like atheism, it seems to be a truly separated form of thought, in a way that a religion could never be.

Enjoy your vertically ascending Frisbee and unstable "God"; I'll enjoy my spinny earth/universe...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 17, 2008, 06:48:50 PM
This was forward to me recently, and is hardly as optimistic as then the OP's post.

If Christians Were to Vanish…

Day 1, Sunday Morning:

The athiests wake up (actually it would be closer to noon), but sense that something is wrong. There is no radio and no T.V. on the air. Electrical power is partially already gone. Upon venturing out into the world, they notice almost no traffic, no police, no airplanes… almost total silence. Upon the discovery of realizing these facts, athiests immediately begin to loot all businesses. It’s a free for all. Windows are broken, cars stolen from garages & parking lots, a real big party for the athiests starts. They are living it up, it’s total anarchy. By the afternoon, most valuables in stores & private homes are looted. Gay sex shops & liquor stores are among the first to be emptied out.

Day 1, Evening:

Electrical power is all but gone, phone service is now gone too. There are no communications, hence they have no idea what happened. They turn on the cell phones to start talking loudly and obnoxiously, but the phones don’t work. Some agnotics, the working class, are starting to understand the nightmare that is to come. But no one listens to them; They are non-brights, who have always appreciated life in America.
Already gangs are beginning to rob, rape (and this time it’s athiest women, no pure Christian women here, remember?) and murder at even a higher rate than before. There is no force to stop them. There is no government, no religion, No order. It is a great big free party for the athiests…For now.

During The First Week:
Looting & anarchy continue. Law abiding athiests are already having to defend their houses from looters. But other problems are beginning to appear. There is no fresh milk, no bread, no fresh meats. There is no longer any electricity, therefore alot of food is already spoiled. Fires are wide spread from looting, and hardly anyone knows how to put them out. Fresh water from taps is starting to become undrinkable, if it is still flowing.

By The End Of The First Month:

A massive food shortage begins to appear. Yes canned food can still be found but fresh water, milk, bread & such are non-existent. Gasoline becomes scarce. Also the athiests begin to get bored. No television, internet..etc.
Some hospitals are still running but with almost no trained staff. The death rate begins to increase. So has simple illness, pregnancy, and the like are poorly treated at best. Youths form even more gangs from boredom. Garbage & sanitation services are gone, & now disease from these sources begin to rise. Rats multiply. A few law-abiding athiests try to restore order and resort to shoot on sight policy, using guns they previously they wanted to make illegal. Civil war begins amongst athiest gangs as they battle for territory & vanishing resources.

By The End Of The First Year:

Starvation is rampant. Food becomes the most valuable thing in the New athiest America. Fires are rampant everywhere, especially in the colder states due to lack of heat & electricity. Trees are cut down for firewood, but none are replanted. Athiests don’t think that way, they only live for the moment (”pleasure is all that matters”). Many die from cold. Diseases are also rampant, malnutrition is everywhere. As the birth rate increase (no abortion anymore) most infants born do not survive, as medical care becomes non-existent. A few athiests hoard all the food for themselves by the use of force (just like China today.)
There is no light at night, except from fires. The atheists begin to reorganize by tribes, in small pockets. Gangs rule the city completely. It is hell. Travel is almost impossible, except by walking, riding bikes.Travellers are frequently murdered by gangs.

SPOILERS: IT IS PARTS OF EARTH ALL ALONG! >> This is a true story from the future. Luckily, I’ll be dead when it happens.

By The End Of Five Years:

Nearly 2/3rds of the athiests are now dead. The life span is down to about 40 years, as it is in many athiest countries in Asia today. There are some tribal governments, but no United States as we know it. The money system being gone years ago, is now replaced by a barter system. Crime is still a major problem & there is practically no justice system. Mob rule & vigilante justice prevail. Youths engage in duelling, to prove their manhood. Nomads now roam from destroyed town to town looking for food. Farm animals have all been slaughtered or molested. Medicines are now gone. The U.S. has become like a concentration camp, only worse, for there will be no Christian saviours to free the athiests from oppression.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 17, 2008, 06:51:09 PM
Don't they claim only a minority of people will be raptured?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 17, 2008, 06:53:26 PM
You must be Sara H B Ranson (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4777)'s reincarnate.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 17, 2008, 11:45:08 PM
The great thing about it is that if you took away about 90% of the people in a country, no matter who was left behind, either that would happen, or people would just start to rebuild.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 18, 2008, 10:37:21 AM
That is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.  Yes, something's wrong.  Let's all loot, rape, and murder.   ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 18, 2008, 10:39:02 AM
Let's all loot, rape, and murder.   ::)

A pirate's life for me!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 18, 2008, 12:44:03 PM
That is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.  Yes, something's wrong.  Let's all loot, rape, and murder.   ::)

That's what I'd do. Christians would do the same, but then tithe 15% to the church.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 18, 2008, 02:15:36 PM
That is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.  Yes, something's wrong.  Let's all loot, rape, and murder.   ::)

That's what I'd do. Christians would do the same, but then tithe 15% to the church.
You're not a Christian.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 18, 2008, 02:16:33 PM
You are not a christian. You are, primarily, a religious fucknut, and an idiot. And stop capitalizing Christian. It's a title, not a name.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 18, 2008, 02:17:29 PM
I'm a christian.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 18, 2008, 07:53:10 PM
Burning a bible would probably be a very christian thing to do. Being unwilling to burn one would show you are holding it in some sort of reverence, the 10 commandments clearly states you should have no idols above god. Claiming the bible is infallible is setting it fairly high I'd have to say.

A twice translated text is hardly infallible or the word of god.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 18, 2008, 08:02:33 PM
Quote
Burning a bible would probably be a very christian thing to do. Being unwilling to burn one would show you are holding it in some sort of reverence, the 10 commandments clearly states you should have no idols above god.

And having reverance for something doesn't make it more important to you then God.
Quote
A twice translated text is hardly infallible or the word of god.
Considering that archaeological discoveries have been made confirming that the Bible has remained astonishingly nearly-identical in meaning to millennial old texts, that is sort of a misleading statement.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 18, 2008, 08:06:22 PM
Quote
Burning a bible would probably be a very christian thing to do. Being unwilling to burn one would show you are holding it in some sort of reverence, the 10 commandments clearly states you should have no idols above god.

And having reverance for something doesn't make it more important to you then God.
Quote
A twice translated text is hardly infallible or the word of god.
Considering that archaeological discoveries have been made confirming that the Bible has remained astonishingly nearly-identical in meaning to millennial old texts, that is sort of a misleading statement.

I am not saying it has been hugely altered. I simply said that the translations have used words causing their meaning to be misconstrued. Language loses meaning when translated because most languages do not have words with identical meanings, and many cultures have words and sentences that carry greater meaning than simply their literal meaning.

A huge example are the numbers in the bible.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 02:53:59 AM
Quote
Burning a bible would probably be a very christian thing to do. Being unwilling to burn one would show you are holding it in some sort of reverence, the 10 commandments clearly states you should have no idols above god.

And having reverance for something doesn't make it more important to you then God.
Dude, people in the bible were deemed doomed for dancing around a statue. srsly.

Quote
Quote
A twice translated text is hardly infallible or the word of god.
Considering that archaeological discoveries have been made confirming that the Bible has remained astonishingly nearly-identical in meaning to millennial old texts, that is sort of a misleading statement.

I think the book in itself is sort of a misleading statement.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 19, 2008, 07:38:51 AM
The bible was written by man. To follow it, is not to follow the word of god.
Hell, most janitors could give better advice than that piece of shit stack of lies fairy tale collection, despite whether or not it is rooted in truth.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 09:14:21 AM
At least it took him a 1800 posts. You, on the other hand, were confirmed as a raving lunatic the moment you stepped into Religion and Philosophy.Also:

OK so: kill babies, burn bible, don't restrict my behaviour at all as perscribed by Jesus.

Congrats on your "Christianity".

The fuck? do you have proof of these outrageous claims? Not even atheists do that shit.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 09:20:21 AM
Wow. Christians having pre-marital sex. Fancy that. Also, when the FUCK did Jesus say "Don't punch pregnant women in the gut", or something of that nature, since abortion didn't even exist back then?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 19, 2008, 09:24:17 AM
Raist has said he supports abortion, thinks the bible is worthless, and engages in pre-marital sex. He does nothing to live a Christian lifestyle.

You can believe in the Christian god and have Christian values without living like a typical Christian.  I actually think it's great that Raist is honest and accepts his lifestyle as it is.  Most Christians deny themselves the things they love because of some stupid scritpture.

Wow. Christians having pre-marital sex. Fancy that. Also, when the FUCK did Jesus say "Don't punch pregnant women in the gut", or something of that nature, since abortion didn't even exist back then?

Actually, there was abortion.  Different plants and herbs were used and put together in a tea like drink.  The women drank them and it induced miscarriages. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 09:27:38 AM
Really? That's actually pretty cool. Also, Emir, I was referring to the fact that christian people have plenty of pre-marital sex. They are also the ones who have the most extra-marital sex.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 19, 2008, 09:31:52 AM
Jesus was very much against sex outside of marriage.
Quote
Also, when the FUCK did Jesus say "Don't punch pregnant women in the gut", or something of that nature, since abortion didn't even exist back then?
::) So anything he didn't directly condemm is okay? The bible supports the sanctity of life.

"Let he that is without sin cast the first stone."   Sound familiar?  Or this "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.  That whoever shall believe in him will not parish but have everlasting life." 

I was born and raised in a Christian church.  Raist is only living as he sees fit.  It doesn't matter if he supports abortion.  According to Christianity as long as you accept Christ as your saviour, you're going to heaven.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 19, 2008, 09:33:32 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 19, 2008, 09:35:31 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!

 ::)  There's a difference between saying you accept him, and believing it.  Obviously someone who would go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course) wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour.  And, you're definetly going to hell.  Fag.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 09:36:04 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!

If this wasn't true, why would priests agree to speak to people on death row?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 19, 2008, 09:38:56 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!

If this wasn't true, why would priests agree to speak to people on death row?

That's actually controversial among Christians.  Some believe you can be saved on your death bed.  Others don't.  It's relative to which church you attend.  I personally think that if Christianity is true then someone on their death bed couldn't suddenly decide to believe in God.  I think they're only saying they do out of fear which negates any real belief. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 19, 2008, 09:39:10 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!

 ::)  There's a difference between saying you accept him, and believing it.  Obviously someone who would go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course) wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour.  And, you're definetly going to hell.  Fag.
Obviously someone who would go chop up innnocent children wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour. And, Raist is definetly going to hell.

Quote
If this wasn't true, why would priests agree to speak to people on death row?
So they can ask forgivness for their sins, meaning they admit their actions were wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2008, 09:44:06 AM
So you actually mean that you make no difference between any sins, then?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on November 19, 2008, 09:53:06 AM
So you actually mean that you make no difference between any sins, then?

This is one of my big problems with Christianity.  I don't believe a pedofile deserves to go to heaven no matter how sorry he is.  It just doesn't sit right with me.  The other problem is some child who dies of malaria some where who never heard of Jesus Christ or the Bible goes to hell.  These were the two main reasons I stopped going to church.  Finally, logic got me in the end and I stopped believing in a god all together.  Not to say I don't belive it's possible.  I just don't think there is one.  If there is though, we'll never know.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on November 19, 2008, 09:58:47 AM
Obviously someone who would go chop up innnocent children wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour.
Wrong, there has been many a delusional psychopath in history that has performed that act whilst believing in JC.
And, Raist is definetly going to hell.
A christian judgemental narrow minded opinion with no grounds of proof behind it at all.
Quote
If this wasn't true, why would priests agree to speak to people on death row?
So they can ask forgivness for their sins, meaning they admit their actions were wrong.
It's a placebo to the pre executed, nothing more.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 19, 2008, 11:45:24 AM
Raist has said he supports abortion, thinks the bible is worthless, and engages in pre-marital sex. He does nothing to live a Christian lifestyle.

The bible makes no reference to abortion. I understand the bible is a book, not god. The commandment is though shalt not commit adultery, until I am married I'm breaking no rules.

You are an idolatrous person, worshiping something other than god. You also are a liar, you tell people that God wants them to do things he has never said. Didn't jesus warn us about false prophets in his name?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on November 20, 2008, 02:53:11 AM
I accept Christ as my saviour! Now where'd I leave my pick-ax? I need to go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course). Yay I'm going to heaven!

 ::)  There's a difference between saying you accept him, and believing it.  Obviously someone who would go chop up some bitches (after raping them of course) wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour.  And, you're definetly going to hell.  Fag.
Obviously someone who would go chop up innnocent children wouldn't actually believe in Jesus Christ as his saviour. And, Raist is definetly going to hell.

(http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif)

1. Raist doesn't chop up innocent children...so...
2. Hell probably doesn't exist.
3. Neither does heaven, so that sucks.
4. Stop making assumptions.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on November 20, 2008, 03:24:09 AM
Also:

Morality ⊄ Christianity
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 20, 2008, 07:10:37 AM
I am not saying it has been hugely altered. I simply said that the translations have used words causing their meaning to be misconstrued. Language loses meaning when translated because most languages do not have words with identical meanings, and many cultures have words and sentences that carry greater meaning than simply their literal meaning.

A huge example are the numbers in the bible.
Protip: You can have a bible containing a translation and definitions of the words in the original language. Problem solved.

Raist has said he supports abortion, thinks the bible is worthless, and engages in pre-marital sex. He does nothing to live a Christian lifestyle.

The bible makes no reference to abortion.
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm (http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm)

I understand the bible is a book, not god.
So ignore what the bible says and do whatever you feel like.

You are an idolatrous person, worshiping something other than god. You also are a liar, you tell people that God wants them to do things he has never said.
Wrong and wrong.

Didn't Jesus warn us about false prophets in his name?
Good thing I'm not prophecizing anything.

1. Raist doesn't chop up innocent children...so...
He advocates it.

2. Hell probably doesn't exist.
3. Neither does heaven, so that sucks.
4. Stop making assumptions.
Irony.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 20, 2008, 07:24:48 AM
No, thank you, for your inciteful advice and logical reasoning. You really add to the debate.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on November 20, 2008, 08:54:18 AM
I am not saying it has been hugely altered. I simply said that the translations have used words causing their meaning to be misconstrued. Language loses meaning when translated because most languages do not have words with identical meanings, and many cultures have words and sentences that carry greater meaning than simply their literal meaning.

A huge example are the numbers in the bible.
Protip: You can have a bible containing a translation and definitions of the words in the original language. Problem solved.

Raist has said he supports abortion, thinks the bible is worthless, and engages in pre-marital sex. He does nothing to live a Christian lifestyle.

The bible makes no reference to abortion.
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm (http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm)

I understand the bible is a book, not god.
So ignore what the bible says and do whatever you feel like.

You are an idolatrous person, worshiping something other than god. You also are a liar, you tell people that God wants them to do things he has never said.
Wrong and wrong.

Didn't Jesus warn us about false prophets in his name?
Good thing I'm not prophecizing anything.

1. Raist doesn't chop up innocent children...so...
He advocates it.

2. Hell probably doesn't exist.
3. Neither does heaven, so that sucks.
4. Stop making assumptions.
Irony.
Chrimbo trolls can be so cute ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 20, 2008, 09:05:22 AM
I am not saying it has been hugely altered. I simply said that the translations have used words causing their meaning to be misconstrued. Language loses meaning when translated because most languages do not have words with identical meanings, and many cultures have words and sentences that carry greater meaning than simply their literal meaning.

A huge example are the numbers in the bible.
Protip: You can have a bible containing a translation and definitions of the words in the original language. Problem solved.

Raist has said he supports abortion, thinks the bible is worthless, and engages in pre-marital sex. He does nothing to live a Christian lifestyle.

The bible makes no reference to abortion.
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm (http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm)

I understand the bible is a book, not god.
So ignore what the bible says and do whatever you feel like.

You are an idolatrous person, worshiping something other than god. You also are a liar, you tell people that God wants them to do things he has never said.
Wrong and wrong.

Didn't Jesus warn us about false prophets in his name?
Good thing I'm not prophecizing anything.

1. Raist doesn't chop up innocent children...so...
He advocates it.

2. Hell probably doesn't exist.
3. Neither does heaven, so that sucks.
4. Stop making assumptions.
Irony.

In the future, don't link me to a site that makes basic grammar mistakes.

edit: also, any site that wants to justify what we do today by which terms ancient people used for a biological process, needs to stop beating off to the jews.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 20, 2008, 11:29:45 AM
Quote
# Theologically, there are really only two questions:
# At what point does life (ie: do not kill) begin between conception and birth?
# Is it sin to abort a fetus?

Lol, yeah, because all religions have sin.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: britishgent on November 21, 2008, 07:56:01 PM
The flaws atheist hate so much in religion exist in most cultures and idealisms which leads me to think that they are inherent in large scale human nature and not exclusive to religon. A true idealist would believe in co-existance not a uniformed thinking format... as they say variety is the spice of life.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: PastafarianGuy on November 23, 2008, 04:57:22 PM
God should not arrange everything in a way such that people CAN piss him off.  It's like at any moment he picks a stage of depression at random...  What?  Gay people?  I am ANGRY!  A lot of people are going to hell no matter what?  I am SAADDDD, make JESUS!  Now people are killing others in my name?  Keep it up, this is definitely what I want, and my MP is running low of late so yeah...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 24, 2008, 06:28:00 AM
Actually, if I were a creating God, I would create situations where my creations could dissapoint me. I just wouldn't punish them.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 24, 2008, 07:22:56 AM
Actually, if I were a creating God, I would create situations where my creations could dissapoint me. I just wouldn't punish them.
I agree.
This also begs the question, is god emotional?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 24, 2008, 10:08:56 AM
Actually, if I were a creating God, I would create situations where my creations could dissapoint me. I just wouldn't punish them.
I agree.
This also begs the question, is god emotional?

If you believe in what the bible says, then he must be. He's very materialistic and has jealousy issues.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 08:06:46 PM
I don't know about you, but I find that hilarious. At least in norse and greek mythology, the gods were ascribed human attributes so that people could connect with them, but the christian god is almost more human than Loki ever was.
This is absurd. The Judeo-Christian God is much more different from humans then pagan gods are.

Pagan gods run around fighting and fucking like humans with bodies that resemble human's bodies. The bible says that humans can't imagine God, God doesn't resemble humans and is sinless.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 24, 2008, 09:01:26 PM
I don't know about you, but I find that hilarious. At least in norse and greek mythology, the gods were ascribed human attributes so that people could connect with them, but the christian god is almost more human than Loki ever was.
This is absurd. The Judeo-Christian God is much more different from humans then pagan gods are.

Pagan gods run around fighting and fucking like humans with bodies that resemble human's bodies. The bible says that humans can't imagine God, God doesn't resemble humans and is sinless.

Quit comparing penises on the internet.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 09:54:32 PM
I don't know about you, but I find that hilarious. At least in norse and greek mythology, the gods were ascribed human attributes so that people could connect with them, but the christian god is almost more human than Loki ever was.
This is absurd. The Judeo-Christian God is much more different from humans then pagan gods are.

Pagan gods run around fighting and fucking like humans with bodies that resemble human's bodies. The bible says that humans can't imagine God, God doesn't resemble humans and is sinless.

Quit comparing penises on the internet.
You compare God to penises? Are you still pretending to be Christian?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 24, 2008, 10:36:29 PM
It's as valid a comparison as any. Still, God is depicted like some sort of child with a temper problem in the old testament, and evne though you deny it, it's true.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 10:51:33 PM
It's as valid a comparison as any. Still, God is depicted like some sort of child with a temper problem in the old testament, and evne though you deny it, it's true.
No it isn't. God is depicted as just and wise.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 24, 2008, 10:56:43 PM
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 24, 2008, 10:57:56 PM
I don't know about you, but I find that hilarious. At least in norse and greek mythology, the gods were ascribed human attributes so that people could connect with them, but the christian god is almost more human than Loki ever was.
This is absurd. The Judeo-Christian God is much more different from humans then pagan gods are.

Pagan gods run around fighting and fucking like humans with bodies that resemble human's bodies. The bible says that humans can't imagine God, God doesn't resemble humans and is sinless.

Quit comparing penises on the internet.
You compare God to penises? Are you still pretending to be Christian?

Trying to compare god at all is a futile task. What you are doing is basically attempting to compare penises through religion which i find sick and akin to masturbation. Stop blaspheming.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 11:18:57 PM
Trying to compare god at all is a futile task. What you are doing is basically attempting to compare penises through religion which i find sick and akin to masturbation. Stop blaspheming.
No, I am clarifying the distinctions between religions. By saying they are interchangeable you are blaspheming against the word of The Lord.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 24, 2008, 11:20:10 PM
Trying to compare god at all is a futile task. What you are doing is basically attempting to compare penises through religion which i find sick and akin to masturbation. Stop blaspheming.
No, I am clarifying the distinctions between religions. By saying they are interchangeable you are blaspheming against the word of The Lord.
I said they are incomparable. Which is the word of the Bible.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 11:29:20 PM
I was showing the differences between gods. You said I was showing the differences betwen penises, so you were comparing all gods, including the Judeo-Christian one, to penises.

Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 24, 2008, 11:30:23 PM
I was showing the differences between gods. You said I was showing the differences betwen penises, so you were comparing all gods, including the Judeo-Christian one, to penises.

Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.

no, I was comparing what you were doing, to the futile act of penis measuring.

learn2metaphor
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 24, 2008, 11:39:33 PM
So you compare the worship of God to the worship of false gods, we might as well dance around a golden calf right?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 25, 2008, 01:04:32 AM
So you compare the worship of God to the worship of false gods, we might as well dance around a golden calf right?

Pretty much, acomplishes the same thing, apart from everyone has a bit more excercise.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: PastafarianGuy on November 25, 2008, 04:28:36 AM
So you compare the worship of God to the worship of false gods, we might as well dance around a golden calf right?

Pretty much, acomplishes the same thing, apart from everyone has a bit more excercise.
Right right, and how do we choose the correct religion?  If Christianity is it, then which sect most closely follows the word of the Bible?  Would anybody be willing to cast their eyes, stone their children, or own slaves (at least nowadays) and make sure they don't die within 3 days when you bean them?  CAN you go all the way is what I am asking if that is what God wants?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 25, 2008, 04:43:58 AM
Quote
correct religion

An oxymoron I feel.
And yes, you can move to somewhere like Nigeria
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: PastafarianGuy on November 25, 2008, 04:55:37 AM
Haha, I said "bean" (not really funny)
Quote
correct religion

An oxymoron I feel.
And yes, you can move to somewhere like Nigeria
I neglected to put "if you assume their is one, which I do not" after I said "correct religion", but I had hoped it would be assumed.

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 25, 2008, 05:03:15 AM
Never assume, it makes an ass out of u and me
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 25, 2008, 07:30:11 AM
Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.

Do you have any proof of these outrageous claims? Am I the only person who reacted to the fact that a self-proclaimed christian just said that God didn't give us free will?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 25, 2008, 08:43:38 AM
Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.

Do you have any proof of these outrageous claims? Am I the only person who reacted to the fact that a self-proclaimed christian just said that God didn't give us free will?
I'm a little too late to the discussion, but I agree. You simply beat me to it.

He is either saying that we don't have free will, or that he doesn't punish sin.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on November 25, 2008, 08:55:14 AM
So you compare the worship of God to the worship of false gods, we might as well dance around a golden calf right?
no. You did.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 25, 2008, 02:28:48 PM
Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.
Do you have any proof of these outrageous claims? Am I the only person who reacted to the fact that a self-proclaimed christian just said that God didn't give us free will?
God didn't get pissy.

So you compare the worship of God to the worship of false gods, we might as well dance around a golden calf right?
no. You did.
No, you did.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 25, 2008, 02:39:51 PM
God didn't get pissy.
God doesn't get pissed off by people sinning? Awesome!
Wait, then what's up with the horrendous punishment of eternal torture?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 25, 2008, 02:53:23 PM
God didn't get pissy.
God doesn't get pissed off by people sinning? Awesome!
Wait, then what's up with the horrendous punishment of eternal torture?
What torture?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 25, 2008, 02:58:47 PM
What torture?
Hell. Sorry, I thought it was obvious.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on November 25, 2008, 03:04:59 PM
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r137/SamuelLBronkowitz/emilposter.jpg)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 25, 2008, 03:06:37 PM
What torture?
Hell. Sorry, I thought it was obvious.
How is Hell torure?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 25, 2008, 10:42:01 PM
Quote
Sodom and Gomorrah, still. God gives us free will, and then gets pissy when we use it.
No He doesn't/didn't.
Do you have any proof of these outrageous claims? Am I the only person who reacted to the fact that a self-proclaimed christian just said that God didn't give us free will?
God didn't get pissy.

There is only a miniscule difference between "pissy" and "vengeful". Both are childlike and very human emotions, so why would God display them?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 25, 2008, 11:15:22 PM
There is only a miniscule difference between "pissy" and "vengeful"./quote]No.

Both are childlike
No.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 25, 2008, 11:21:33 PM
Emir, you are truly an idiot. Give me reasons for your arguments, and we'll talk on, otherwise I win.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 26, 2008, 12:11:45 AM
Emir, you are truly an idiot.
No.

Give me reasons for your arguments, and we'll talk on, otherwise I win.
No.

"Pissy" suggests immaturity, vengeance does not. Vengeance isn't childish by definition.


Also, an interesting quote I read online:

Quote
To all you atheists and satanists in America, read this.

The United States of America believes in God. This is supported the pledge of allegiance. Treason is disloyalty to the nation. By not believing in God and worshiping Satan, you are opposing America, the American people, American government and American values.

You are an enemy of the nation, a foreign combat who deserves to be locked up in Guantanamo Bay and interrogated for your illogical beliefs.

That is all,

A patriot of all Christian Nations.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 26, 2008, 12:26:00 AM
Emir, you are truly an idiot.

Atheists don't worship the devil. Pagan satan worshippers do. Also, Lavey satanists to some extent. In any case, you cannot say that vengeance isn't a childish emotion. It is expressed most frequently by children or young individuals("He hit me, so I have to hit him back"), and it is considered mature to not extract vengeance. In any case, it is a very basic human emotion, linking us to our sense of justice, and hence the bible tries to humanise God, when he truly cannot be ascribed human attributes. Simply put, he gives us free will, and gets pissy when we use it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on November 26, 2008, 12:29:19 AM
Emir, you are truly an idiot.

Atheists don't worship the devil. Pagan satan worshippers do. Also, Lavey satanists to some extent. In any case, you cannot say that vengeance isn't a childish emotion. It is expressed most frequently by children or young individuals("He hit me, so I have to hit him back"), and it is considered mature to not extract vengeance. In any case, it is a very basic human emotion, linking us to our sense of justice, and hence the bible tries to humanise God, when he truly cannot be ascribed human attributes. Simply put, he gives us free will, and gets pissy when we use it.

I'm pretty sure they don't worship Satan at all. There's no "to some extent" in there. It's a shock thing, and all the rituals are psychodrama. They worship self-indulgence.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 26, 2008, 01:05:22 AM
Atheists don't worship the devil.
Devotion to selfish desire is the service of Satan.

In any case, you cannot say that vengeance isn't a childish emotion. It is expressed most frequently by children or young individuals("He hit me, so I have to hit him back"), and it is considered mature to not extract vengeance. In any case, it is a very basic human emotion, linking us to our sense of justice, and hence the bible tries to humanise God, when he truly cannot be ascribed human attributes. Simply put, he gives us free will, and gets pissy when we use it.
This is why you are wrong: there are multiple definitions for vengeance, and God's actions are not retaliatory. God has stated that he will punish transgression, God is not a liar, so God will keep his promises. God's actions are fulfillment of promise.

God is vengeful, acting with great force and vehemence. This is only fitting for as omnipotent being. But his actions are just and wise, so they are not childish.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 26, 2008, 01:08:50 AM
So what you are saying is:

God gives us free will, and gets pissy when we use it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 26, 2008, 01:09:36 AM
No.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 26, 2008, 03:56:12 AM
Quote
God is vengeful, acting with great force and vehemence. This is only fitting for as omnipotent being.

So what you're saying is that it's better for someone playing SimCity to throw an asteroid at a crime-ridden part of the city than to encourage businesses and hiring police? Both are within the power of this omniSimpotent being but wrath and vengeance is more of a 'Godly' thing to do...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on November 26, 2008, 04:05:41 AM
So what you're saying is that it's better for someone playing SimCity to throw an asteroid at a crime-ridden part of the city than to encourage businesses and hiring police? Both are within the power of this omniSimpotent being but wrath and vengeance is more of a 'Godly' thing to do...

I used to love the natural disaster feature last time I played SimCity. I'd open one of the pre-made cities with lots of people in it and bombard them with various natural disasters.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 26, 2008, 04:50:55 AM
The riots in Simcity 2000 were the best, activate a couple of those on the fastest speed and you had something like 28 days later on your hands!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 26, 2008, 06:39:13 AM
Atheists don't worship the devil.
Devotion to selfish desire is the service of Satan.
Atheists are not devoted to selfish desire. Some may be, but your making shit up again.

Quote
This is why you are wrong: there are multiple definitions for vengeance, and God's actions are not retaliatory. God has stated that he will punish transgression, God is not a liar, so God will keep his promises. God's actions are fulfillment of promise.
Why does it deserve punishment if it doesn't displease god? This is retarded. God is essentially saying, "don't disobey me or I burn you for all eternity". If he was not displeased by sin, he would not threaten punishment.

Quote
But his actions are just and wise, so they are not childish.
Taking god's definition of justice because he is omnipotent is an appeal to force. How is it just to burn someone for all eternity for disbelief in him?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 26, 2008, 09:20:55 AM
Quote
God is vengeful, acting with great force and vehemence. This is only fitting for as omnipotent being.

it's better for someone playing SimCity to throw an asteroid at a crime-ridden part of the city

That's what I would do...  :-\
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 26, 2008, 09:43:22 AM
Quote
To all you atheists and satanists in America, read this.

The United States of America believes in God. This is supported the pledge of allegiance. Treason is disloyalty to the nation. By not believing in God and worshiping Satan, you are opposing America, the American people, American government and American values.

You are an enemy of the nation, a foreign combat who deserves to be locked up in Guantanamo Bay and interrogated for your illogical beliefs.

That is all,

A patriot of all Christian Nations.

So you believe that anyone who doesn't believe in the Chrisitian God is an enemy of the United States? You do realize that it was one of the founding fathers who suggested the separation of church and state right? You also realize that if you believe that load of shit you quoted, you are the most bigoted, self-indulged individual, right? I mean afterall, you believe that your religion is the right religion and fuck everyone else who thinks or believes otherwise. Fuck the Jews, fuck the Muslims, fuck the Taoists, fuck the Buddhists, fuck the hindu's, fuck the Native Americans, fuck the UUists, and fuck Sikhism, Jainism, Shintoism, Taoism, Caodaism, the Bah?'? Faith, Heathenism, Neopaganism, Jediism, etcetera, right? Afterall, these people are enemies and should be put in concentration camps because the United States believes in GOD and these people OBVIOUSLY do not.

That's what you're saying, right?

Quote
God is vengeful, acting with great force and vehemence. This is only fitting for as omnipotent being.

it's better for someone playing SimCity to throw an asteroid at a crime-ridden part of the city

That's what I would do...  :-\

You sick, godly motherf***er!

I try.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 26, 2008, 11:15:47 AM
So what you are saying is:

God gives us free will, and gets pissy when we use it.
He gets angered when we use it in the wrong way.

The point I'm trying to make is, why make something without preventing it from doing what it is not supposed to? If I make a watch, I will make it so that the seconds are as accurate as possible, and there will be 60 seconds to a minute, and 60 minutes to an hour. If I make a race of sapient creatures, I will make them as I want them to be, and I will give them free will only if I want them to do whatever the hell they want. Why does God not do this?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 26, 2008, 01:51:28 PM
Quote
God is vengeful, acting with great force and vehemence. This is only fitting for as omnipotent being.

So what you're saying is that it's better for someone playing SimCity to throw an asteroid at a crime-ridden part of the city than to encourage businesses and hiring police? Both are within the power of this omniSimpotent being but wrath and vengeance is more of a 'Godly' thing to do...
You know that God provides everything to live a good life? And the purpose of life is not to live it up, or else God would have kept the garden of Eden going.


Atheists don't worship the devil.
Devotion to selfish desire is the service of Satan.
Atheists are not devoted to selfish desire. Some may be, but your making shit up again.
Hedonism.


Quote
This is why you are wrong: there are multiple definitions for vengeance, and God's actions are not retaliatory. God has stated that he will punish transgression, God is not a liar, so God will keep his promises. God's actions are fulfillment of promise.
Why does it deserve punishment if it doesn't displease god? This is retarded. God is essentially saying, "don't disobey me or I burn you for all eternity". If he was not displeased by sin, he would not threaten punishment.
God is displeased.

Quote
But his actions are just and wise, so they are not childish.
Taking god's definition of justice because he is omnipotent is an appeal to force. How is it just to burn someone for all eternity for disbelief in him?
God's definition of justice is greater then any other, and he abides by them. So God is just.

Quote
To all you atheists and satanists in America, read this.

The United States of America believes in God. This is supported the pledge of allegiance. Treason is disloyalty to the nation. By not believing in God and worshiping Satan, you are opposing America, the American people, American government and American values.

You are an enemy of the nation, a foreign combat who deserves to be locked up in Guantanamo Bay and interrogated for your illogical beliefs.

That is all,

A patriot of all Christian Nations.

So you believe that anyone who doesn't believe in the Chrisitian God is an enemy of the United States?
The pledge of allegiance only specifies monotheism.

You do realize that it was one of the founding fathers who suggested the separation of church and state right?
To prevent any specific denomination interfering in government.
You also realize that if you believe that load of shit you quoted, you are the most bigoted, self-indulged individual, right?
I'd say there are more bigoted, self-indulgent individuals.

I mean afterall, you believe that your religion is the right religion and fuck everyone else who thinks or believes otherwise. Fuck the Jews, fuck the Muslims, fuck the Taoists, fuck the Buddhists, fuck the hindu's, fuck the Native Americans, fuck the UUists, and fuck Sikhism, Jainism, Shintoism, Taoism, Caodaism, the Bah?'? Faith, Heathenism, Neopaganism, Jediism, etcetera, right?
Fucking all those people would be unsanitary.

Afterall, these people are enemies and should be put in concentration camps because the United States believes in GOD and these people OBVIOUSLY do not.

That's what you're saying, right?
Perhaps atheists and Satanists.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 26, 2008, 02:26:15 PM
Quote
de⋅nom⋅i⋅na⋅tion
   /dɪˌnɒməˈneɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-nom-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun
1.    a religious group, usually including many local churches, often larger than a sect: the Lutheran denomination.
2.    one of the grades or degrees in a series of designations of quantity, value, measure, weight, etc.: He paid $500 in bills of small denomination.
3.    a name or designation, esp. one for a class of things.
4.    a class or kind of persons or things distinguished by a specific name.
5.    the act of naming or designating a person or thing

Number 4 says yes.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on November 26, 2008, 06:41:11 PM
Fuck semantics.

Devotion to selfish desire is the service of Satan.
Christians aren't self-interested?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on November 26, 2008, 11:21:52 PM
In God we rust.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: divito the truthist on November 26, 2008, 11:57:18 PM
Christians aren't self-interested?

Nah, they don't eat, sleep, or buy things for themselves. What are you dumb?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Parsifal on November 27, 2008, 03:34:54 AM
Nah, they don't eat, sleep, or buy things for themselves. What are you dumb?

Nor do they commit murder to get rewarded in Heaven. Oh wait... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on November 27, 2008, 10:18:38 AM
Nah, they don't eat, sleep, or buy things for themselves. What are you dumb?

Nor do they commit murder to get rewarded in Heaven. Oh wait... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
ONE GUY. Not Christians. That was one mentally ill man.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 27, 2008, 10:25:10 AM
Nah, they don't eat, sleep, or buy things for themselves. What are you dumb?

Nor do they commit murder to get rewarded in Heaven. Oh wait... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
ONE GUY. Not Christians. That was one mentally ill man.

I believe what every other christian believes. we have the same beliefs.

::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 27, 2008, 11:17:54 AM
Quote
I believe what every other christian believes. we have the same beliefs.

I really wish you were a part of the Northern Ireland peace corps.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on November 27, 2008, 11:29:01 AM
Nah, they don't eat, sleep, or buy things for themselves. What are you dumb?

Nor do they commit murder to get rewarded in Heaven. Oh wait... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill)
ONE GUY. Not Christians. That was one mentally ill man.

I believe what every other christian believes. we have the same beliefs.
You got me. I blow up abortion clinics all the time
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on November 27, 2008, 11:34:59 AM
Do you invade the Holy Land and torture/burn witches, too? Because after all, all Christians, living or dead, have the same beliefs.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on November 27, 2008, 11:43:04 AM
Do you invade the Holy Land and torture/burn witches, too? Because after all, all Christians, living or dead, have the same beliefs.
I am not going to play this game anymore. I meant we have the same beliefs of Jesus, what it means to be a christian, and the other basic things. We don't all want to blow up abortion clinics.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on November 27, 2008, 11:58:53 AM
Do you invade the Holy Land and torture/burn witches, too? Because after all, all Christians, living or dead, have the same beliefs.
I am not going to play this game anymore. I meant we have the same beliefs of Jesus, what it means to be a christian, and the other basic things. We don't all want to blow up abortion clinics.

Now maybe you see how it feels when you label pro-choicers and atheists as killers, murderers and satanists...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on November 27, 2008, 12:00:07 PM
What, so you're saying Jesus didn't hate abortion? That, perhaps, he may even have been glad it existed, given that his wife was a prostitute and other contraception didn't really work at all?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 27, 2008, 12:00:44 PM
What, so you're saying Jesus didn't hate abortion? That, perhaps, he may even have been glad it existed, given that his wife was a prostitute and other contraception didn't really work at all?
He wasn't married.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on November 27, 2008, 12:03:10 PM
Do you invade the Holy Land and torture/burn witches, too? Because after all, all Christians, living or dead, have the same beliefs.
I am not going to play this game anymore. I meant we have the same beliefs of Jesus, what it means to be a christian, and the other basic things. We don't all want to blow up abortion clinics.

No but some do, some interpret that as Jesus' work, now tell me that all Christians have the same beliefs.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on November 27, 2008, 12:03:55 PM
Now maybe you see how it feels when you label pro-choicers and atheists as killers, murderers and satanists...
I actually think I'll identify as a satanist from now on. It's a lot more interesting than atheism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on November 27, 2008, 12:04:25 PM
What, so you're saying Jesus didn't hate abortion? That, perhaps, he may even have been glad it existed, given that his wife was a prostitute and other contraception didn't really work at all?
He wasn't married.

Aw, ickle dumpling don't believe in the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 27, 2008, 12:08:18 PM
Aw, ickle dumpling don't believe in the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Where do the dead sea scrolls say he was?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on November 27, 2008, 12:18:10 PM
I'm tired of looking up precise bits for you morons. Look up your own damn evidence, Bible-bashers/REers!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Emir Parkreiner on November 27, 2008, 12:18:55 PM
I'm tired of looking up precise bits for you morons. Look up your own damn evidence, Bible-bashers/REers!
Burden of proof, you use it all the time.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 02, 2008, 08:07:04 AM
An atheist professor was teaching a college class and
he told the class that he was going to prove that there
is no God. He said, "God, if you are real, then I want
you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!"

Ten minutes went by. He kept taunting God,
saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting."

He got down to the last couple of minutes and a
Marine just returned from the Gulf and released from
active duty and newly registered in the class walked up
to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and
sent him flying from his platform. The professor
struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, "What's
the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The Marine replied, "God was busy watching
over my buddies engaged in combat, so he sent me."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 02, 2008, 08:17:10 AM
(http://i38.tinypic.com/x0z6ys.jpg)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on December 02, 2008, 09:22:22 AM
An atheist professor was teaching a college class and
he told the class that he was going to prove that there
is no God. He said, "God, if you are real, then I want
you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!"

Ten minutes went by. He kept taunting God,
saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting."

He got down to the last couple of minutes and a
Marine just returned from the Gulf and released from
active duty and newly registered in the class walked up
to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and
sent him flying from his platform. The professor
struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, "What's
the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The Marine replied, "God was busy watching
over my buddies engaged in combat, so he sent me."

He's not very attentive there either. That story would be more poignent if the American death count was zero.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 02, 2008, 10:29:20 AM
Well, the Taliban aren't doing it. Our armies are out there shooting each other.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 02, 2008, 10:33:18 AM
The American military sure pwns the UK's. They've killed hundreds of Brits and aren't even at war.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 02, 2008, 10:34:44 AM
I was going to say that, but I'm trying to cut down on anti-Americanism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 02, 2008, 11:09:39 AM
The American military sure pwns the UK's. They've killed hundreds of Brits and aren't even at war.

That sort of shows we're idiot, with all that friendly fire.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 02, 2008, 11:15:51 AM
The American military sure pwns the UK's. They've killed hundreds of Brits and aren't even at war.

That sort of shows we're idiot, with all that friendly fire.

In b4 dedit?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 02, 2008, 11:17:04 AM
It's obviously a covert war against the UK, finally sticking it to them for extra tea taxes.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 01:39:52 PM
According to common sense of sane humans! can a mobile come out of nowhere :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 01:40:56 PM
According to common sense of sane humans! can a mobile come out of nowhere :)
A mobile is not the universe. The analogy is flawed.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 01:41:46 PM
According to common sense of sane humans! can a mobile come out of nowhere :)
According to quantum mechanics yes. The odds are very low, but one could spontaneously form.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 03, 2008, 01:42:28 PM
According to common sense of sane humans! can a mobile come out of nowhere :)
A mobile is not the universe. The analogy is flawed.

The universe also did not come out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 01:44:38 PM
Quote
A mobile is not the universe. The analogy is flawed.

Again, can it exists out of nowhere?

When you see a Key with it's Shape what the first thing comes to your mind?  :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 03, 2008, 01:45:54 PM
Key. Or lock. Or door. Or game. Or puzzle.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 01:51:12 PM
Key. Or lock. Or door. Or game. Or puzzle.

Why?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 03, 2008, 01:52:43 PM
It triggers a recollection of a past event involving an object similar to that one.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 01:53:06 PM
The universe also did not come out of nowhere.
Maybe, maybe not.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 01:53:34 PM
Key. Or lock. Or door. Or game. Or puzzle.

Why?

Because keys are a non naturally occurring phenomena, and therefore are generally made for something. The same can not be said about the universe. When you see a rock what automatically comes to mind? I'm betting it isn't carbon dioxide being dissolved in the ocean and animals depositing this into rocks.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 01:58:13 PM
Quote

Because keys are a non naturally occurring phenomena, and therefore are generally made for something. The same can not be said about the universe. When you see a rock what automatically comes to mind? I'm betting it isn't carbon dioxide being dissolved in the ocean and animals depositing this into rocks.

When you see in the dessert foot marks? what comes to your mind?

When you see a House built in the middle of the desert what comes to your mind?

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 03, 2008, 01:59:32 PM
Well, as was said, those are not naturally occurring phenomena.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on December 03, 2008, 02:01:14 PM
When you see in the dessert foot marks? what comes to your mind?

Animals/my own tracks.


When you see a House built in the middle of the desert what comes to your mind?

Mirage, imagination.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 02:08:13 PM
Well, as was said, those are not naturally occurring phenomena.

Nice, keep asking yourself these questions!

When we see a Condition releasing cold air we know there is a mechanisim for a purpose

When we see a Key we know it has created in a way so it can be benefit in another place.

When we see the Calculator and we use the numbers, divide...etc the first things comes to our mind someone created this for a purpose and that someone was clever. When we see Mobile with its all different functions we say oh the creator of this device is even smarter than the previous! Now See the earth Alone with all it's mechanism I honestly ask you do you believe it was there for no purpose? We all know that if the Earth was closer to Sun we will be burned, if it was further we will freeze. We know that if there was no Nitrogen we would die because breathing Oxygen alone we would be dead because Oxygen alone is not good if we kept breathing. We know that if night was 200 years and Day was 200 years almost life would cease to exists. We know that if the Ozone layer was not there the harmful radiant of the sun would have destroyed life on this planet. Now just seeing all of these great systems and mechanism? I ask you again, what comes to your mind? Hope you have a natural "Fitra"  :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 03, 2008, 02:09:14 PM
What caused God, Abdul?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 02:15:20 PM
What caused God, Abdul?

If you asked this question it will mean your putting God in the same category of his creations which is wrong. Because God by definition cannot be like his creations. God is known as the one who create not get created, if he was created than he shouldn't be considered a God but the one who created Him then again you would ask then who created the one who created the supposed God? you see the chain! but if you know the definition of Almighty God and his attributes you would realize there is no need for this question in the first Place. Because he is the one who created and he is not created, he is the first nothing before him and the last nothing will remain after him, this is Almighty God
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 03, 2008, 02:17:40 PM
What caused God, Abdul?

If you asked this question it will mean your putting God on the category of the creator which is wrong. Because God by definition cannot be like his creations. God is known as the one who create not get created, if he was created than he shouldn't be considered a God but the one who created Him then again you would ask then who created the one who created the supposed God? you see the chain! but if you know the definition of Almighty God and his attributes you would realize there is no need for this question in the first Place. Because he is the one who created and he is not created, he is the first nothing before him and the last nothing will remain after him, this is Almighty God
Why couldn't the universe itself (or the particles which caused the Big Bang) share this definition? Could it not have always been?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 02:26:11 PM
Quote
Edit?

Thanks man didn't notice  :-\ appreciate that. I edited

Quote
Why couldn't the universe itself (or the particles which caused the Big Bang) share this definition? Could it not have always been?

Simply because we all know that the universe is working based on mechanism and things that keeps it working, like the expanding...etc and it needs this or that...etc while God doesn't that's why. Some people call it super-natural power, some people call it Almighty God and some others call it Allah. Almighty God is sufficient he doesn't need anything that keeps him live, working...etc the universe is effected by the creations...etc The universe is expanding, There exists a cosmic background radiation field detectable at microwave frequencies and countless other things can be said.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 02:34:51 PM
The universe is based on mechanisms?
They have made significant progress simplifying every aspect in the universe. Not too long ago, the four universal laws got condensed into two. If and when the grand unified theory is discovered, those two will result in one truth from which all physics extends. The universe has properties, but not mechanisms.

Why is god allowed outside the laws of physics? We had no reason to believe anything should/would/could be, until religion convinced us of his existence. Suddenly, its no problem.  ;)

The universe is expanding due to dark energy or anti gravitational waves or an unknown alternative.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 02:46:24 PM
If you say god does a better alternative than the big bang, because of his abilities, try to look at it from my perspective that god could be invented for that purpose with abilities without justification. A magical being in the sky that is undetectable in every way with unlimited abilities could be used to explain anything unknown.

Why is it that religion is found in every culture, separate or not from the outside world's influence? Religion is man made. To think your own religion is correct is just as natural.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 02:52:16 PM
The universe is based on mechanisms?
They have made significant progress simplifying every aspect in the universe. Not too long ago, the four universal laws got condensed into two. If and when the grand unified theory is discovered, those two will result in one truth from which all physics extends. The universe has properties, but not mechanisms.

Why is god allowed outside the laws of physics? We had no reason to believe anything should/would/could be, until religion convinced us of his existence. Suddenly, its no problem.  ;)

The universe is expanding due to dark energy or anti gravitational waves or an unknown alternative.

To put it simply, does the universe change, get effected by other things, does it have ending, does it depend on something else :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 03, 2008, 02:57:40 PM
Is that relevant? You say that everything that exists requires a creator, so either find God a creator, or admit that he doesn't exist. Unless you want to contradict yourself as much as your scriptures.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 02:58:35 PM
does the universe change
Yes, it is expanding.
Quote
get effected by other things
Universe affected by other things? Like what?
Stuff inside it?
If stuff inside it is alright, than yes, because mass warps it (assuming spacetime fits the definition of  universe).

Quote
does it have ending
Unclear, but unlikely.
Quote
does it depend on something else :)
No?... Like what?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on December 03, 2008, 03:04:21 PM
Is that relevant? You say that everything that exists requires a creator, so either find God a creator, or admit that he doesn't exist. Unless you want to contradict yourself as much as your scriptures.

Thank you.

That is the biggest hypocrisies with religion who spend all this time 'proving' that things that look complicated could only have been designed by a creator then turn around and say the very complicated creator doesn't need one.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 03:50:11 PM
Is that relevant? You say that everything that exists requires a creator, so either find God a creator, or admit that he doesn't exist. Unless you want to contradict yourself as much as your scriptures.

Yeah it's so relevant because I am using common sense :) if things that end it has a beginning, an even it has a reason that caused that even to occur, and that cause there should be someone that was the cause, that's reasoning, that's common sense. I still didn't quote anything of my scriptures but if you want me to quote here is a verse >>>

"Have they been created without a purpose, or are they themselves the creators ?  Did they create the heavens and the earth ? Nay, but they have no faith in the Creator."

Allah when using this question, he is using the common sense of humans, because any sane humans knows that something cannot start or have a beginning without a creator. And there are other verses where he asks is there any doubt in Almighty God?  Allah want us to use reasoning and common sense because simply common and natural "Fitra" knows that however I admit among us there are people with blind "Fitra"  :)

However I don't want to use verses to support what I am saying because it's a common sense to all sane humans, ask Christians, Jews, Muslims....etc they would accept. Tell me, aren't we all agree that a "Part" of something is less than "The Whole Thing" right? no sane humans would say its equal or more...

Quote
Yes, it is expanding.

So it's being affected, something that can be changed it can end. Scientists today has already proven that the universe is rely on other things and it changes, it has beginning...etc This universe is always having events, changes and something that does have a beginning has a cause and cause there must be someone a reason for that cause. Nothingness in mind might be thought but in reality if we apply there will be nothing, so a base must be there, the beginning that is not affected by events, causes, not created....etc we call that Almighty God not affected, not changed, always there, always will be....etc The problem with some people they went to make the eternal (Almighty God) like something that happened or get affected by other things, or can started, or changed because thats the attributes of the eternal, the first, the sufficient while scientists proved that the attributes of the universe is no where like that, thus by common sense and reasoning the universe cannot be god or always there always will be....etc
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
Quote

Because keys are a non naturally occurring phenomena, and therefore are generally made for something. The same can not be said about the universe. When you see a rock what automatically comes to mind? I'm betting it isn't carbon dioxide being dissolved in the ocean and animals depositing this into rocks.

When you see in the dessert foot marks? what comes to your mind?

When you see a House built in the middle of the desert what comes to your mind?


When I see foot steps I see the sand was moved. God leaves no footprints in the ground. The very definition of house means it was built by man. That is quite the leading question.

I have a better question for you, Any author will sign his book, where on this Earth is a signature? (I am not arguing against god, I am arguing against these flawed arguments)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on December 03, 2008, 04:03:12 PM
Quote
if things that end it has a beginning, an even it has a reason that caused that even to occur, and that cause there should be someone that was the cause, that's reasoning, that's common sense.

So when did God begin and who created him?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 04:07:36 PM
Quote
When I see foot steps I see the sand was moved. God leaves no footprints in the ground. The very definition of house means it was built by man. That is quite the leading question.

I have a better question for you, Any author will sign his book, where on this Earth is a signature? (I am not arguing against god, I am arguing against these flawed arguments)
[/quote]

You didn't get it maybe, the reasons I said that it raise a question, who moved here, animal, human...etc the same thing goes for House you know that a great skilled creature would have built that of course when you have no knowledge at all then you would never realize that :) the same thing for the universe when you see all the mechanism and the great system and all the other things in the universe you know there a great system far beyond the ability of humans, when just seeing around the universe, earth, human body....etc that same questions raise, the idea of always there, all will remain, it came by itself will never come to a sane man, ask any human being.

Suppose now that you asked me to prove that God exists and I told you ok I will come to your house, and between my house and your house there was a river and after long time I arrived to your home, just think of this, you would ask why your late! if I told you that: "Guess what Raist, while I wanted to cross the river, a boat came out of nowhere, and there was other sort of good things moving by itself from one side to another" what will be your reaction? a liar! how it came out of nothingness...etc having the things that you can benefit from...etc thats natural because that's common sense, I would simply reply then if you couldn't believe even such a small thing like a boat which is not even an insect compared to the universe how you can believe the universe doesn't have a creator or something that started or organized its systems? Wallah, Wallah and a third Wallah a sane human would realize that :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 04:09:37 PM
Quote

So when did God begin and who created him?

Please read my previous posts n_n

Quote
If you asked this question it will mean your putting God in the same category of his creations which is wrong. Because God by definition cannot be like his creations. God is known as the one who create not get created, if he was created than he shouldn't be considered a God but the one who created Him then again you would ask then who created the one who created the supposed God? you see the chain! but if you know the definition of Almighty God and his attributes you would realize there is no need for this question in the first Place. Because he is the one who created and he is not created, he is the first nothing before him and the last nothing will remain after him, this is Almighty God

All these questions your raising is because you have not yet defined Almighty God and knew his attributes...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 04:21:05 PM
Quote
When I see foot steps I see the sand was moved. God leaves no footprints in the ground. The very definition of house means it was built by man. That is quite the leading question.

I have a better question for you, Any author will sign his book, where on this Earth is a signature? (I am not arguing against god, I am arguing against these flawed arguments)

You didn't get it maybe, the reasons I said that it raise a question, who moved here, animal, human...etc the same thing goes for House you know that a great skilled creature would have built that of course when you have no knowledge at all then you would never realize that :) the same thing for the universe when you see all the mechanism and the great system and all the other things in the universe you know there a great system far beyond the ability of humans, when just seeing around the universe, earth, human body....etc that same questions raise, the idea of always there, all will remain, it came by itself will never come to a sane man, ask any human being.

Suppose now that you asked me to prove that God exists and I told you ok I will come to your house, and between my house and your house there was a river and after long time I arrived to your home, just think of this, you would ask why your late! if I told you that: "Guess what Raist, while I wanted to cross the river, a boat came out of nowhere, and there was other sort of good things moving by itself from one side to another" what will be your reaction? a liar! how it came out of nothingness...etc having the things that you can benefit from...etc thats natural because that's common sense, I would simply reply then if you couldn't believe even such a small thing like a boat which is not even an insect compared to the universe how you can believe the universe doesn't have a creator or something that started or organized its systems? Wallah, Wallah and a third Wallah a sane human would realize that :)
[/quote]

A boat appearing out of nowhere would have disastrous consequences. I wouldn't believe you because of the statistics and the fact that it would lead to a massive explosion most likely.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 05:17:42 PM
Quote

A boat appearing out of nowhere would have disastrous consequences. I wouldn't believe you because of the statistics and the fact that it would lead to a massive explosion most likely.

Why is that? believe the absence of the knowledge about "Almighty God" and his attributes is the only reason why most of you are so confused. In fact most humans, since the beginning till now they believe in the existence of God, those who deny the existence of the creator are few compared to those who believe in Almighty God, you can never claim they are having more knowledge or access to use common sense, reasons more than those who believes, simply because that's in their "Fitra" natural being. It's same as when we pray or want divine help we see up and we don' see down :P

You couldn't believe what I said, you want me to believe that the universe was always there, will always be there, it wasn't created by someone  ;D again?  ;D ! read what scientist already said about this so called universe and then you would realize why it has a beginning and why it should have an end, why it cannot be sufficient and why it cannot be creator to the originator of the universe.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 05:28:09 PM
Quote
Yes, it is expanding.

So it's being affected, something that can be changed it can end. Scientists today has already proven that the universe is rely on other things and it changes, it has beginning...etc This universe is always having events, changes and something that does have a beginning has a cause and cause there must be someone a reason for that cause. Nothingness in mind might be thought but in reality if we apply there will be nothing, so a base must be there, the beginning that is not affected by events, causes, not created....etc we call that Almighty God not affected, not changed, always there, always will be....etc The problem with some people they went to make the eternal (Almighty God) like something that happened or get affected by other things, or can started, or changed because thats the attributes of the eternal, the first, the sufficient while scientists proved that the attributes of the universe is no where like that, thus by common sense and reasoning the universe cannot be god or always there always will be....etc
Its expanding due to negative pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Dark energy is not the same as god. I would please ask you to stop quoting the Quaran, because it is not a scientific piece of evidence. The alleged word of god must be proven to be the word of god, before it becomes a valid part of discussion and debate.

As for the beginning argument: God was ascribed the status of not having a beginning. You assume he exists, and that he has no beginning. After defining him this way, you say it is because he has no beginning that makes him immune to causality. This is circular, in that god is defined for that very purpose.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 03, 2008, 05:35:31 PM
God has been defined as eternal for millenia before that argument was formulated.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 05:48:55 PM
Quote
Its expanding due to negative pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Dark energy is not the same as god. I would please ask you to stop quoting the Quaran, because it is not a scientific piece of evidence. The alleged word of god must be proven to be the word of god, before it becomes a valid part of discussion and debate.

As for the beginning argument: God was ascribed the status of not having a beginning. You assume he exists, and that he has no beginning. After defining him this way, you say it is because he has no beginning that makes him immune to causality. This is circular, in that god is defined for that very purpose.

before answering, may I ask when I quoted the Quran :) and before answering also I would like you to define: "ALMIGHTY GOD" that is known in definition not in in religions and what are the universal known attributes of God and their meanings :) then you would realize why your confused.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 03, 2008, 05:51:28 PM
"Have they been created without a purpose, or are they themselves the creators ?  Did they create the heavens and the earth ? Nay, but they have no faith in the Creator."
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 05:53:50 PM
"Have they been created without a purpose, or are they themselves the creators ?  Did they create the heavens and the earth ? Nay, but they have no faith in the Creator."

Read that same post again to know the reason for quotation I never used it as evidence :) and read the post before that post of mine! do you always act this way?  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 03, 2008, 05:56:16 PM
You asked when you quoted the Quran. Always glad to help. ;)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 06:08:32 PM
You asked when you quoted the Quran. Always glad to help. ;)

Like u man  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 06:13:50 PM
Quote

A boat appearing out of nowhere would have disastrous consequences. I wouldn't believe you because of the statistics and the fact that it would lead to a massive explosion most likely.

Why is that? believe the absence of the knowledge about "Almighty God" and his attributes is the only reason why most of you are so confused. In fact most humans, since the beginning till now they believe in the existence of God, those who deny the existence of the creator are few compared to those who believe in Almighty God, you can never claim they are having more knowledge or access to use common sense, reasons more than those who believes, simply because that's in their "Fitra" natural being. It's same as when we pray or want divine help we see up and we don' see down :P

You couldn't believe what I said, you want me to believe that the universe was always there, will always be there, it wasn't created by someone  ;D again?  ;D ! read what scientist already said about this so called universe and then you would realize why it has a beginning and why it should have an end, why it cannot be sufficient and why it cannot be creator to the originator of the universe.

I believe that because if all those particles quantum tunneled to this part of space, a couple thousand of them would probably appear against atoms already here, this would cause fusion, and fission and what not.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 06:25:37 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin, and anything they say is not based on evidence but based on personal opinions only. Because they do not know what was 'before' the universe or big bang, and they have no solid proof for their opinions however if they knew the attributes of Almighty God (or what I call as Allah) they would have realized that Almighty's God existence is a must to a universe so all things in the universe be called exists. Suppose now there is a table, and I ask you hey can you help me to left the table, you would say yeah but I need help from that person, then when that person would come he would say yeah but I need help from the person that helped me to come into existence, then when that person would come he would say the same thing again, again and again! why! simply because the attributes of being the first, no one before him and he is not like his creations is not accepted or not understandable to them that's why they keep repeating the same question, who created God :) dear Raist,
we cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product for example tears, laugh etc... Like that, we see the universe around us, and how it is sustained and controlled for so long doesn't that would immediately for the sane mind would make him believe that this is the product of an All Powerful, Knowing and Wise Creator. This is not my believe but this is what we call Fitra which is in all humans whose Fitra are not corrupted :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on December 03, 2008, 06:40:43 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin, and anything they say is not based on evidence but based on personal opinions only. Because they do not know what was 'before' the universe or big bang, and they have no solid proof for their opinions however if they knew the attributes of Almighty God (or what I call as Allah) they would have realized that Almighty's God existence is a must to a universe so all things in the universe be called exists. Suppose now there is a table, and I ask you hey can you help me to left the table, you would say yeah but I need help from that person, then when that person would come he would say yeah but I need help from the person that helped me to come into existence, then when that person would come he would say the same thing again, again and again! why! simply because the attributes of being the first, no one before him and he is not like his creations is not accepted or not understandable to them that's why they keep repeating the same question, who created God :) dear Raist,
we cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product for example tears, laugh etc... Like that, we see the universe around us, and how it is sustained and controlled for so long doesn't that would immediately for the sane mind would make him believe that this is the product of an All Powerful, Knowing and Wise Creator. This is not my believe but this is what we call Fitra which is in all humans whose Fitra are not corrupted :)

(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/2d/Gaymuslim.jpg)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 06:56:07 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin,\

Neither do theists.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 06:58:13 PM
Quote
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/2d/Gaymuslim.jpg)

Lol I assume when you can't reply you use these methods, lol not far from what was described about people like you in the Quran >>>

Verily, thou canst not make the dead to hear, nor canst thou make the deaf to hear the call, when they retreat turning their backs. And thou canst not guide the blind out of their error. Thou canst make only those to hear who believe in Our Signs, so they submit.

This Also >>>

And when it is said to them, `Believe as other people have believed,' they say, `Shall we believe as the fools have believed ?' Remember ! it is surely they that are the fools, but they do not know. And when they meet those who believe, they say, `We believe;' but when they are alone with their ring-leaders they say, `We were only mocking.'  ALLAH will punish their mockery and will let them continue in their transgression, wandering blindly. These are they who have bartered away guidance for error, but their traffic has brought them no gain, nor are they rightly guided.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 06:58:51 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin,\

Neither do theists.

We do :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sean on December 03, 2008, 06:59:59 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin,\

Neither do theists.

We do :)

See avatar.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 07:00:24 PM
(http://www.popandpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/suicidebomberkid.jpg)

religion of peace.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sean on December 03, 2008, 07:01:38 PM
(http://www.popandpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/suicidebomberkid.jpg)

religion of peace.

Sillyhats  ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 07:02:46 PM
So I guess my job here ends, you couldn't defend your claims

And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish.

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 03, 2008, 07:03:12 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin,\

Neither do theists.

We do :)

You have a hypothesis with no evidence. You claim to know. Atheists do not claim to know, they have an idea and some evidence.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on December 03, 2008, 07:04:31 PM
So I guess my job here ends, you couldn't defend your claims :)

And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish.
[/color]



We have defended our claims, you choose not to listen.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 07:06:44 PM
Quote

You have a hypothesis with no evidence. You claim to know. Atheists do not claim to know, they have an idea and some evidence.

Raist, you don't need much knowledge or read books or whatever to know such clear things, it's common-sense but again if you want to believe your right and I am wrong I can never change that because you forced upon yourself whatever comes from this guy is wrong and false but am sure there are some around here are ready to believe, they don't block their their minds out of pure.............. you know what I mean...

---

Verily, thou canst not make the dead to hear, nor canst thou make the deaf to hear the call, when they retreat turning their backs. And thou canst not guide the blind out of their error. Thou canst make only those to hear who believe in Our Signs, so they submit.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 07:07:33 PM
Quote

We have defended our claims, you choose not to listen.

I countered them all
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Vauxhall on December 03, 2008, 07:09:03 PM
Quote

We have defended our claims, you choose not to listen.

I countered them all

With scripture...  ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 03, 2008, 07:13:27 PM
Now I realized why you have more than 2000 posts ^_^

No more replies required by me, I would reply when I see fit...

~Chao~
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 07:36:27 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin, and anything they say is not based on evidence but based on personal opinions only.
Human knowledge is always growing. It is fallacious to attribute anything to the work of a supernatural being because it is not yet understood. Since the beginning of religion, anything not understood was attributed to god, much like the beginning of the universe. People believed eclipses and auros were supernatural. They believed that diseases were divine punishment. God was invented to patch up these holes in knowledge. When cavemen saw fire, they didn't understand combustion. They instead drew pictures of heavenly beings bestowing magic upon Earth. Instances involving the supernatural/magic has been disproven billions of times as the human race learns more and more about itself and surroundings. People know have telescopes and microscopes to see the stars and the bacteria and viruses. God is a patch designed to explain something that currently is unexplainable. It isn't a sound argument to do this because God is unexplained and whether he is real or not he is also a human invention (as proven by the near unanimous appearance of varying deity religions all over the world). To explain something by magic and leave it at that, because God is unquestionable, is horribly unscientific and biased.


Quote
Because they do not know what was 'before' the universe or big bang, and they have no solid proof for their opinions
Solid proof is impossible. It is impossible to prove what the center of the Earth is made out of. Evidence need not be 100% solid to be reliable. It is only unfair to assert that because it is impossible to have perfect proof, that we attribute answers to religion. It is impossible to prove that there isn't a mutant bunny trapped in the center of the Earth, yet the lack of evidence for one makes me conclude there isn't one.

Quote
however if they knew the attributes of Almighty God (or what I call as Allah) they would have realized that Almighty's God existence is a must to a universe so all things in the universe be called exists.
Show this. You are offering conclusions rather than steps for investigation. It is 'proven' that conservation of matter is only applied in some circumstances.

Quote
Suppose now there is a table, and I ask you hey can you help me to lift the table, you would say yeah but I need help from that person, then when that person would come he would say yeah but I need help from the person that helped me to come into existence, then when that person would come he would say the same thing again, again and again! why! simply because the attributes of being the first, no one before him and he is not like his creations is not accepted or not understandable to them that's why they keep repeating the same question, who created God
It is unfair to assert that God doesn't need a creator while the known universe does. There are countless math based theories, some of which postulate that the universe always exists. Some say that it expands and contracts (big bang and big crunch) some say membranes of higher dimensional spacetime collided and intersecting created a relatively small pocket of spacetime, (our universe) with its own properties.


Quote
we cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product for example tears, laugh etc... Like that, we see the universe around us, and how it is sustained and controlled for so long doesn't that would immediately for the sane mind would make him believe that this is the product of an All Powerful, Knowing and Wise Creator. This is not my believe but this is what we call Fitra which is in all humans whose Fitra are not corrupted :)

There is no reason to believe the universe is controlled.
There is no sound argument for making a leap to a creator.

Giving Fitra a name doesn't make it a valid concept. Religions are famous for believing they are correct and asserting that others are backwards, corrupted, mistaken, or evil. This applies to the views of the religion followers and sometimes their traits.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 03, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
The thing is atheists don't know what caused the universe to begin, and anything they say is not based on evidence but based on personal opinions only.
Human knowledge is always growing. It is fallacious to attribute anything to the work of a supernatural being because it is not yet understood.
Unless something is necessarily impossible.

Quote
Show this. You are offering conclusions rather than steps for investigation. It is 'proven' that conservation of matter is only applied in some circumstances.
Source?

Quote
It is unfair to assert that God doesn't need a creator while the known universe does.
As God is different from the universe, it is fair.

Quote
Religions are famous for believing they are correct and asserting that others are backwards, corrupted, mistaken, or evil. This applies to the views of the religion followers and sometimes their traits.
Interesting opinion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 03, 2008, 08:24:46 PM
Unless something is necessarily impossible.
There is no reason to believe it is impossible.

Quote
Source?
Read up on QM.

Quote
As God is different from the universe, it is fair.
Being separate doesn't remove the dilemma of origin.

Quote
Interesting opinion.
Don't you agree with it? I recall you saying something like "no duh" to my post when I said something to the effect of "religions believe that only their own religion is the correct one".
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 03, 2008, 08:47:16 PM
Quote
Source?
Read up on QM.
Queen Mary has what to do with this discussion?

Quote
Quote
As God is different from the universe, it is fair.
Being separate doesn't remove the dilemma of origin.
As God doesn't have an origin, it does.

Quote
Quote
Interesting opinion.
Don't you agree with it? I recall you saying something like "no duh" to my post when I said something to the effect of "religions believe that only their own religion is the correct one".
You said all religious people can said to be corrupt and stupid.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 03, 2008, 10:52:38 PM
So I guess my job here ends, you couldn't defend your claims

And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish.


So why are there still Muslims?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 04, 2008, 04:07:23 AM
You said all religious people can said to be corrupt and stupid.

Only in the other religions' perspective.

Here is what I said earlier:
Religions are famous for believing they are correct, and asserting that others are backwards, corrupted, mistaken, or evil.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 04, 2008, 04:23:07 AM
ﮎingulaЯiτy Inshallah I will come back to your post soon.


Here is what I said earlier:
Religions are famous for believing they are correct, and asserting that others are backwards, corrupted, mistaken, or evil.

Do you remember the story of the kid (The liar) that our parents and teachers were telling us. He keep telling lie that there is a wolf there then all the people surround him then he laughs because he fooled them. He kept doing that several times but when really the wolf came nobody believed  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 04, 2008, 04:31:47 AM
ﮎingulaЯiτy Inshallah I will come back to your post soon.


Here is what I said earlier:
Religions are famous for believing they are correct, and asserting that others are backwards, corrupted, mistaken, or evil.

Do you remember the story of the kid (The liar) that our parents and teachers were telling us. He keep telling lie that there is a wolf there then all the people surround him then he laughs because he fooled them. He kept doing that several times but when really the wolf came nobody believed  ;D

I don't see how 'the boy who cried wolf' applies here.
Do you agree that you believe your religion is right and others are wrong?
Do you agree that other religions view their religions as right and yours as wrong?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 04, 2008, 04:47:16 AM
Quote
I don't see how 'the boy who cried wolf' applies here.

Only few can understand the purpose of the story and how it applies ;D
That was almost helpful.  ;)

Quote
I ask you this, suppose now I say this Forums is mine! I REALLY REALLY REALLY Believe it's mine! Would it be Mine because I believe its mine  :)
No, beliefs do not determine reality.

Quote
Oh btw tomorrow I am traveling to this place >>>
Why? Assuming this a religious place, why attend? You seem to already have your religious values set, so why listen to another person interpret the Quaran for you?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: AbdulAziz on December 04, 2008, 04:59:28 AM
Quote
That was almost helpful.  ;)

You won ^_~

I wanted to say that Islam is the victim when the (One who warn us) came for the last time but we decided that time not to believe him and it was the last.

Quote
No, beliefs do not determine reality.

Then we both agree there should be a type of methods, criteria to determine what is right and what is wrong.

Quote
Why? Assuming this a religious place, why attend? You seem to already have your religious values set, so why listen to another person interpret the Quaran for you?

I will be there to perform the Hajj, now why the Hajj, the reasons, benefits it already need a whole different topic ^_^ but regarding the Quran I think you meant that when we pray 5 times a day! why we pray and listen the recitation of the Quran? as I said in the recitation topic, we Muslims are so lucky that just reading the words of God we are rewarded by him as he promised. For example a Christian said if you gave 100$ fo charity you will be rewarded by 1 from Almighty God. In my religion it's so easy to get rewarded by the Merciful God, for example if I read only one word from the Quran that consists of 5 letters I will get 5 rewards, and each reward is x 10 when you do a good thing a mercy from Allah. So can you imagine reading one page? that's why I always keep telling my Christians friends we are so lucky ^_^

Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones. He who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 04, 2008, 10:52:52 AM
Oh btw tomorrow I am traveling to this place >>>

That is awesome. Have a good trip.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WendalKane on December 04, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
I hope you were kidding about the atheist world.
most would agree it would not be like that.
oh and we don't burn christians.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mr. Ireland on December 04, 2008, 06:20:37 PM
oh and we don't burn christians.

Speak for yourself.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WendalKane on December 04, 2008, 06:37:49 PM
oh and we don't burn christians.

Speak for yourself.




that gives us civilized people a bad rep.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mr. Ireland on December 04, 2008, 07:27:28 PM
that gives us civilized people a bad rep.

This is not a time to be serious.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 04, 2008, 11:19:45 PM
Christians are only used when wood supplies are low, any wise atheist should know this.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 04, 2008, 11:59:26 PM
And wood is used again when Christian supplies run low. It's more sustainable if we alternate, so both are given a chance to recuperate.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 05, 2008, 04:17:26 AM
Nah we go to the neo nazis for jews then repeat the cycle ;)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 05, 2008, 07:17:55 AM
Maybe in your crazy world, we don't have neo-nazis here, just neds. But we put them into arenas and watch them fight.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on December 05, 2008, 10:46:25 AM
You don't have neo-nazis? Got loads here
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 05, 2008, 12:28:52 PM
Maybe in your crazy world, we don't have neo-nazis here, just neds. But we put them into arenas and watch them fight.

Lol, how can you not have neo nazis? They are the nicest hate filled people.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on December 05, 2008, 01:01:53 PM
Maybe in your crazy world, we don't have neo-nazis here, just neds. But we put them into arenas and watch them fight.

Lol, how can you not have neo nazis? They are the nicest hate filled people.

This is a strangely true statement.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 05, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
Maybe in your crazy world, we don't have neo-nazis here, just neds. But we put them into arenas and watch them fight.

Lol, how can you not have neo nazis? They are the nicest hate filled people.

This is a strangely true statement.

Yeah, they'd walk moonlit home to keep her from getting raped, then beat to death a black man for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: britishgent on December 05, 2008, 07:12:42 PM
Quote
Yeah, they'd walk moonlit home to keep her from getting raped, then beat to death a black man for no apparent reason.
You previously stated the fact that he's black is apparent.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 05, 2008, 08:03:29 PM
This is the Internet, that's the first pic you'll find if you google Mecca.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 06, 2008, 12:54:41 AM
Quote

I don't see how 'the boy who cried wolf' applies here.

Only few can understand the purpose of the story and how it applies ;D
Have you heard about the story of the Two Children and the messy rooms?

There are two children and both have messy rooms.

The first child sees that his room is messy and that his room would be better if it was clean. He could more easily find the things he is looking for. So he cleans his room

The second child does not clean his room until his parents threaten him with punishment if he does not, and offer him a reward if he does. So he cleans his room.

Now, out of those two children would you consider to be the better child? The one who cleans his room because he works out that it is better to have a clean room, or one that only does what he is told under threat of punishment and offer of reward?

The Religious say that Atheists have no moral and ethical ground as their morals do not stem from a higher authority, and that if that authority was removed, then we would act immorally. This is like the second child, that they only do things because a higher authority tells them to do it under threat (hell) and rewards (heaven).

Atheists are like the First Child, they work out that a society works better if people can be trusted and behave in ethical ways to each other. They have worked out that it is better to have a "clean room" (safe and functioning society) so they behave ethically because it will give them that type of society.

It appears that the Religious (based on the OP and many conversations I ahve had with religious people) think of people (and themselves) like the second child, in that they can not do anything right without coercive force (rewards and punishment).

Personally, I would like to live in a world filled with the first child as this would mean that you can really trust people. If the world was filled with people like the second child, then as long as they fear the punishment and desire the rewards it will be safe. But in a world where that authority is not feared, then because the people are like the second child they will cause chaos.

Now, that authority's instructions could then be interpreted as someone wishes. This means that a single person who does not fear the authority could conceivably distort the meaning of the authority to their own ends, and as they have no moral or ethical restrictions (as they only place their in the authority and so not consider them for themselves), then they could convince many people to behave unethically.

And this is not just idle speculation. History is replete with such scenarios, where a single person claiming communication with a higher authority leads people into unethical behaviours. There is even a psychological study done that showed how this occurs (here is a speech a TED of the Psychologist that ran the study: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html ).
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: britishgent on December 06, 2008, 10:26:49 AM
Some people don't break the law because they don't want to be arrested atheist or not. It isn't a "higher power" but i'm sure that in a world devoid of religion law and order wouldn't keep themselves.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 06, 2008, 10:40:51 PM
Quote

I don't see how 'the boy who cried wolf' applies here.

Only few can understand the purpose of the story and how it applies ;D
Have you heard about the story of the Two Children and the messy rooms?

There are two children and both have messy rooms.

The first child sees that his room is messy and that his room would be better if it was clean. He could more easily find the things he is looking for. So he cleans his room

The second child does not clean his room until his parents threaten him with punishment if he does not, and offer him a reward if he does. So he cleans his room.

Now, out of those two children would you consider to be the better child? The one who cleans his room because he works out that it is better to have a clean room, or one that only does what he is told under threat of punishment and offer of reward?

The Religious say that Atheists have no moral and ethical ground as their morals do not stem from a higher authority, and that if that authority was removed, then we would act immorally. This is like the second child, that they only do things because a higher authority tells them to do it under threat (hell) and rewards (heaven).

Atheists are like the First Child, they work out that a society works better if people can be trusted and behave in ethical ways to each other. They have worked out that it is better to have a "clean room" (safe and functioning society) so they behave ethically because it will give them that type of society.

It appears that the Religious (based on the OP and many conversations I ahve had with religious people) think of people (and themselves) like the second child, in that they can not do anything right without coercive force (rewards and punishment).

Personally, I would like to live in a world filled with the first child as this would mean that you can really trust people. If the world was filled with people like the second child, then as long as they fear the punishment and desire the rewards it will be safe. But in a world where that authority is not feared, then because the people are like the second child they will cause chaos.

Now, that authority's instructions could then be interpreted as someone wishes. This means that a single person who does not fear the authority could conceivably distort the meaning of the authority to their own ends, and as they have no moral or ethical restrictions (as they only place their in the authority and so not consider them for themselves), then they could convince many people to behave unethically.

And this is not just idle speculation. History is replete with such scenarios, where a single person claiming communication with a higher authority leads people into unethical behaviours. There is even a psychological study done that showed how this occurs (here is a speech a TED of the Psychologist that ran the study: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html ).

Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 07, 2008, 12:33:42 AM
Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Does a Dog know right from wrong? Does a Wolf? If a Wolf ate a Human would that be right or would it be wrong? If a Dog ate a Human, would that be right or wrong? If another Human ate a Human would that be right or wrong?

Hmm, maybe right and wrong are not as clear cut as you might think.

If you were in the Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party) and you could save the lives of everyone by killing someone and eating them, would that be right or wrong? What if they died of natural causes would it be ok to eat them then (you haven't caused them harm)?

I think you ahve an overly simplified view of the world, and a dangerously simple one at that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 07, 2008, 01:00:17 AM
...Then become mostly a vegetarian and eat already dead meat.  ;)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 07, 2008, 01:53:03 AM
Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Does a Dog know right from wrong? Does a Wolf? If a Wolf ate a Human would that be right or would it be wrong? If a Dog ate a Human, would that be right or wrong? If another Human ate a Human would that be right or wrong?

Hmm, maybe right and wrong are not as clear cut as you might think.

If you were in the Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party) and you could save the lives of everyone by killing someone and eating them, would that be right or wrong? What if they died of natural causes would it be ok to eat them then (you haven't caused them harm)?

I think you ahve an overly simplified view of the world, and a dangerously simple one at that.


A dog and a wolf both know right from wrong. Neither a dog nor a wolf will attack any other being if not for two reasons: They are hungry, or they feel that the creature is a threat to them. If they did, we wouldn't have been able to domesticate dogs from the start. Unless you're one of those cooky christians who believes that dogs were there from the start, 6000 years ago. The Donner party did the right thing. It is better that some survive than that all die. Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 07, 2008, 01:54:50 AM
Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Athiests confirmed to support cannibalism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 07, 2008, 01:56:17 AM
No no, I support cannibalism. And not the "kill your enemies and eat their brains" kind, but rather the kind made by necessity. Food is scarce, and there is meat, should a human die of natural causes. Also, I'm not an atheist, you should know that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 07, 2008, 02:03:13 AM
Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Does a Dog know right from wrong? Does a Wolf? If a Wolf ate a Human would that be right or would it be wrong? If a Dog ate a Human, would that be right or wrong? If another Human ate a Human would that be right or wrong?

Hmm, maybe right and wrong are not as clear cut as you might think.

If you were in the Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party) and you could save the lives of everyone by killing someone and eating them, would that be right or wrong? What if they died of natural causes would it be ok to eat them then (you haven't caused them harm)?

I think you ahve an overly simplified view of the world, and a dangerously simple one at that.

You actually proved his point. They ate dead people to save themselves. This was right, they ignored cultural norms to save people. As for dogs and wolves, they will not hurt you out of spite. They will hurt you to survive. Even the meanest dog will only hurt you out of a warped sense of protecting its territory. I have a 100 lb dog that would fight to save any little kid. As I got older he switched from protecting me to protecting my little siblings, even from me if we were playing.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 07, 2008, 02:05:14 AM
...Then become mostly a vegetarian and eat already dead meat.  ;)
Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Does a Dog know right from wrong? Does a Wolf? If a Wolf ate a Human would that be right or would it be wrong? If a Dog ate a Human, would that be right or wrong? If another Human ate a Human would that be right or wrong?

Hmm, maybe right and wrong are not as clear cut as you might think.

If you were in the Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party) and you could save the lives of everyone by killing someone and eating them, would that be right or wrong? What if they died of natural causes would it be ok to eat them then (you haven't caused them harm)?

I think you ahve an overly simplified view of the world, and a dangerously simple one at that.


A dog and a wolf both know right from wrong. Neither a dog nor a wolf will attack any other being if not for two reasons: They are hungry, or they feel that the creature is a threat to them. If they did, we wouldn't have been able to domesticate dogs from the start. Unless you're one of those cooky christians who believes that dogs were there from the start, 6000 years ago. The Donner party did the right thing. It is better that some survive than that all die. Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Ahh, so you agree with me that Right and Wrong are not absolute (and btw I am an Atheist, not a Christian).

If right and wrong are not absolutes, then how can one be certain that what their actions are, are right? What might be right for one person might be very wrong for another. Also, if you are not fully aware of the situation, you might not be able to determine if it is really right or wrong you are doing. Further more, if you circumstances change, and because right and wrong are dependent on context, then what you though was right only a short while ago, might now be considered wrong.

As a point in discussion:
You mentioned that a Dog or Wolf attacks for one of two reasons: That they are hungry or they are threatened.

What if they make a mistake about being threatened and attack someone? Have they done right or have they done wrong?

What if you were in your house and someone come bursting in. Would you feel that you were right by shooting them and claiming self defence?

Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Athiests confirmed to support cannibalism.
See this is the problem with many non Atheists, they make assumptions about Atheism based on the opinions of a single person (who turned out not be an atheist after all). If Atheists did this, then the actions of some priests and sexual perversions, we should conclude that all religious people are sexual perverts. We don't because we are not trying to control people by fear.

Should I use this incident to claim that all religious people are bigots? No.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 07, 2008, 02:12:04 AM
No no, I support cannibalism. And not the "kill your enemies and eat their brains" kind, but rather the kind made by necessity. Food is scarce, and there is meat, should a human die of natural causes. Also, I'm not an atheist, you should know that.

Quote from: John 6:27
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.

See this is the problem with many non Atheists, they make assumptions about Atheism based on the opinions of a single person (who turned out not be an atheist after all).

Should I use this incident to claim that all religious people are bigots? No.
What?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 07, 2008, 02:15:50 AM
Althalus, all food spoils. That quote simply means that you should not attach value to earthly things.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 07, 2008, 02:17:20 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 07, 2008, 02:18:31 AM
...Then become mostly a vegetarian and eat already dead meat.  ;)
Everyone knows right from wrong.  Wrong means you hurt someone emotionally or physically.  Right is when you help.

Here's a quote from the movie K-PAX in which Mark Powell (Jeff Bridges) is questioning Prot (Kevin Spacey) about how a society can function without law, to which Prot replies:

Quote
Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

:)
Does a Dog know right from wrong? Does a Wolf? If a Wolf ate a Human would that be right or would it be wrong? If a Dog ate a Human, would that be right or wrong? If another Human ate a Human would that be right or wrong?

Hmm, maybe right and wrong are not as clear cut as you might think.

If you were in the Donner Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party) and you could save the lives of everyone by killing someone and eating them, would that be right or wrong? What if they died of natural causes would it be ok to eat them then (you haven't caused them harm)?

I think you ahve an overly simplified view of the world, and a dangerously simple one at that.


A dog and a wolf both know right from wrong. Neither a dog nor a wolf will attack any other being if not for two reasons: They are hungry, or they feel that the creature is a threat to them. If they did, we wouldn't have been able to domesticate dogs from the start. Unless you're one of those cooky christians who believes that dogs were there from the start, 6000 years ago. The Donner party did the right thing. It is better that some survive than that all die. Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Ahh, so you agree with me that Right and Wrong are not absolute (and btw I am an Atheist, not a Christian).

If right and wrong are not absolutes, then how can one be certain that what their actions are, are right? What might be right for one person might be very wrong for another. Also, if you are not fully aware of the situation, you might not be able to determine if it is really right or wrong you are doing. Further more, if you circumstances change, and because right and wrong are dependent on context, then what you though was right only a short while ago, might now be considered wrong.

As a point in discussion:
You mentioned that a Dog or Wolf attacks for one of two reasons: That they are hungry or they are threatened.

What if they make a mistake about being threatened and attack someone? Have they done right or have they done wrong?

What if you were in your house and someone come bursting in. Would you feel that you were right by shooting them and claiming self defence?

Also, cannibalism has been needlessly stigmatized by the misled belief that humans are somehow 'above' other beings.
Athiests confirmed to support cannibalism.
See this is the problem with many non Atheists, they make assumptions about Atheism based on the opinions of a single person (who turned out not be an atheist after all). If Atheists did this, then the actions of some priests and sexual perversions, we should conclude that all religious people are sexual perverts. We don't because we are not trying to control people by fear.

Should I use this incident to claim that all religious people are bigots? No.
I did not say right and wrong are not absolute.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 07, 2008, 02:35:59 AM
I did not say right and wrong are not absolute.
Actually you did. By saying that in some cases it is ok to do what in other cases would be considered wrong, you have stated that right and wrong are not absolutes. If you hold the opinions that different circumstances have different values of right and wrong, that is relative morality, as the value (right/wrong) of the situation is relative to the situation.

An absolute Right/Wrong would not allow for that. It would say things like: It is never right to pick roses (that is an example, I don't think you think that it is harmful to pick roses).

You might think your an absolutist, but you demonstrate relativism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 07, 2008, 02:37:13 AM
I did not say right and wrong are not absolute.
Actually you did. By saying that in some cases it is ok to do what in other cases would be considered wrong, you have stated that right and wrong are not absolutes. If you hold the opinions that different circumstances have different values of right and wrong, that is relative morality, as the value (right/wrong) of the situation is relative to the situation.

An absolute Right/Wrong would not allow for that. It would say things like: It is never right to pick roses (that is an example, I don't think you think that it is harmful to pick roses).

You might think your an absolutist, but you demonstrate relativism.
No I didn't. I gave an absolute.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 07, 2008, 06:20:45 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?

To seek spirituality, I suppose. Why?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 07, 2008, 06:57:02 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?

He said he would eat someone already dead for survival.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: T.T. Monsieur on December 07, 2008, 06:58:32 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?
lol@voldemort
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 07, 2008, 07:04:04 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?

He said he would eat someone already dead for survival.

Still, to live is to kill, unless you only eat things that are already dead. Which you don't. In effect, every time you buy meat, you are agreeing to kill a farm animal.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 07, 2008, 07:06:55 AM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?
lol@voldemort

lol, didn't catch that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 07, 2008, 06:09:51 PM
So why is it worth is to kill to sustain a horrible life?

He said he would eat someone already dead for survival.

Still, to live is to kill, unless you only eat things that are already dead. Which you don't. In effect, every time you buy meat, you are agreeing to kill a farm animal.
And every time you eat a plant, you are eating it alive...  :o
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 07, 2008, 06:12:38 PM
Where as eating a burger kills cows who pollute the atmosphere far more than cars.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: britishgent on December 07, 2008, 06:18:15 PM
There are only so many cows because we like burgers.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 07, 2008, 06:32:42 PM
There are only so many cows because we like burgers.
How many more would there be if we didn't kill them?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 07, 2008, 07:00:45 PM
No cows are incredibly easy prey for any predator. In a natural environment i'm sure they'd get killed off pretty easily.
Yes. Individually maybe. But Cows are heard animals and the Bulls can be quite dangerous (just look at bull fighting, people get killed). Also as heard animals, they work together to protect against predators. If you ahve ever seen a stampede, imagine something like a pack of wolves that got caught in that.

So as individuals, cows are quite easy prey. But so is a human and yet we are the top predator in the world because we are a heard predator.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 07, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
No cows are incredibly easy prey for any predator. In a natural environment i'm sure they'd get killed off pretty easily.

lol. Ever watched a coyote try and take down a calf? The moms tend to stomp them to death.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 08, 2008, 11:29:51 PM
I like this argument. Christians can't actually argue with it, without using the "you don't understand God" argument, which we all know is flawed.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 08, 2008, 11:38:14 PM
Christians can't actually argue with it
Wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 08, 2008, 11:42:56 PM
Of course, you can argue with it, but that won't make you right.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 08, 2008, 11:49:13 PM
Acting against God with intent to later ask forgiveness as a cover is not proper Christian conduct, and any plea for forgiveness has to be authentic to qualify. So what TT posted wasn't Christian behavior and wouldn't result in forgiveness.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 09, 2008, 05:39:05 AM
Acting against God with intent to later ask forgiveness as a cover is not proper Christian conduct, and any plea for forgiveness has to be authentic to qualify. So what TT posted wasn't Christian behavior and wouldn't result in forgiveness.
Source?
Also, why wouldn't they genuinely want to be forgiven?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 09, 2008, 09:18:57 AM
That's what I was thinking. If you sin, knowing full well that it is a sin, and then genuinely regret what you've done, should you not get forgiveness for it?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 09, 2008, 01:17:19 PM
Acting against God with intent to later ask forgiveness as a cover is not proper Christian conduct, and any plea for forgiveness has to be authentic to qualify. So what TT posted wasn't Christian behavior and wouldn't result in forgiveness.

The prodigal son, I thought was meant to prove he would take you back no matter your sin.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 09, 2008, 01:20:45 PM
No, God is happier to get the sinner back than have the already perfect guy.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 09, 2008, 01:23:00 PM
No, God is happier to get the sinner back than have the already perfect guy.
Yes, so why wouldn't he gladly accept you back. I don't think the bible really covers sinning with the intent to apologize.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 09, 2008, 01:25:07 PM
No, God is happier to get the sinner back than have the already perfect guy.
God dislikes non sinners more than sinners asking for forgiveness in the same respect as loan sharks disliking non borrowers to borrowers who pay back.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: WendalKane on December 09, 2008, 06:50:06 PM
God doesn't like anyone.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on December 09, 2008, 10:01:30 PM
God likes me
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 09, 2008, 10:20:58 PM
God likes Atheists...  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 11, 2008, 03:01:18 AM
Acting against God with intent to later ask forgiveness as a cover is not proper Christian conduct, and any plea for forgiveness has to be authentic to qualify. So what TT posted wasn't Christian behavior and wouldn't result in forgiveness.
Source?
Also, why wouldn't they genuinely want to be forgiven?
To be acceptable for heaven one must live their life as Jesus said they should. Part of that is avoiding sinning whenever possible. Actively leading a sinful lifestyle is unchristian.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 11, 2008, 08:38:59 AM
True, but if you regret your actions later in life, it would be unchristian of God not to let you into heaven.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 11, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
"All forgiving"?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 11, 2008, 11:30:08 AM
Oh, that's just because they don't bug him so much. He's omnipotent, not a wizard. God damn.

But... He could transform himself into a wizard if He wanted to.

True, but he could also give the people who prayed to him what they wanted. He doesn't. QED.

Saying random things proves nothing, there is no logical procession to your statements.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on December 11, 2008, 11:57:28 AM
A → B → Q

Duh.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on December 11, 2008, 12:00:43 PM
A → B → Q

Duh.

I am so glad you cleared that up for me.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 11, 2008, 12:04:11 PM
A → B → Q

Duh.
Of course, if A is true, then B is probably true, oh by the way, Q is right.

Now my mind grasps it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 11, 2008, 12:23:54 PM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 11, 2008, 03:16:55 PM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
why not?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 11, 2008, 03:24:33 PM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
What the fuck was the "Let there be light" bit then?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on December 11, 2008, 03:29:12 PM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
What the fuck was the "Let there be light" bit then?

It's all a pert of the plan that went a bit wrong despite his omniscience and he had to fix it with the flood except it didn't fix it so instead he sent a bit of himself down to briefly suffer to fulfill a prophecy that he, himself had foretold to beat an enemy that for some reason he can't beat with a click of his fingers.

duh...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 11, 2008, 04:38:43 PM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
What the fuck was the "Let there be light" bit then?

It's all a pert of the plan that went a bit wrong despite his omniscience and he had to fix it with the flood except it didn't fix it so instead he sent a bit of himself down to briefly suffer to fulfill a prophecy that he, himself had foretold to beat an enemy that for some reason he can't beat with a click of his fingers.

duh...
I wonder what God think's of scientology and if they can lure him in with one of those "tests".
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 12, 2008, 12:37:15 AM
I was saying that God doesn't do stuff just because he can.
What the fuck was the "Let there be light" bit then?

Oh, that one he did just because he could. Are you seriously implying that you don't know what I mean, though?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Althalus on December 15, 2008, 10:04:52 PM
Typical athiest webpage
Quote
WELCOME TO MY WEB SIGHT

 

I've gone full circle in so many ways that my head is still spinning. I hit my mark, where everything in the world has an explanation. It turned into a full-blown Jesus channeling session, with a much more universal version of the broken codes than the ones I thought I'd already completely broken. We are calling in something that has never been here before, therefore is hard to explain, but it is a marriage of the physical dimension with one of 'intelligent energy'. Whether or not I just got crazier than I've always been, I do seem to be receiving a computer-like program from the future... one that makes total sense once I explain it. We have something to build that will take us to many new levels of human mentality, and with it, we will open up a gateway to new dimensions of physical thought.

When my crystal ball rolled in, I heard an all new voice. This pot of gold has a key that will change the world for the better. Most of us don't understand the power of thought, but after reaching my Instant Karma (as Lennon called it) I began to see my bad thoughts actually go back in time to show me what I was destroying. It's time to take my rightful blame, and I'm sorry for not noticing any sooner, but every lesson learned had to reach a state of total conclusion, and I'm ready to share my stuff. I once thought the lessons I've learned were my own, until I compared stories with other people around me. We are all mirrored with a type of program that we are unaware of, learning the same lessons and gaining different variations of the same knowledge. I suppose we all have our own Christ to pay.

I have the mark of the Beast mentioned in the Book of Revelation. It is literal. The sixes found in the swirls of the 3rd degree burn scar on my right hand from a work accident (that occurred on 6/6/82), along with my last name (Dalton) with 6 letters that add to 66 (a=1, b=2, c=3...) could still be coincidental, I agree. But I've had many supernatural experiences that prompted my religious quest and the opening of this site. At the strike of midnight on 4/4/83 I was entered by an entity that practically ripped my heart out. I was given many physical signs and was even allowed to show my ex-wife Robin that I was being spoken to, by turning the TV off and on at my request (3 times). Many years later Robin became one of the greatest contributors to my Antichristian stand, although she used very Christian logic in her delivery. I always admired that, because even when I pursued Antichristianity, I always believed in the Christ principal. On the night of my first encounter, I entered a time warp that compressed years of information into a split second, enabling me to remember something that I'd never known before. I was told that I was the Christ and the Antichrist in One, sent to explain that all people are made up of both sides, God and Satan, good and bad. Yes, I know that it could have been nothing more than drug induced hallucinations from my abuse of Crystal Meth and the burning bush, but no matter how hard I tried to think it was the drugs talking, I had no choice but to listen because of so many physical signs staring me in the face during my almost 15 years of absolute sobriety. I ended up quitting all drugs on 4/20/83. I didn't even have a sip of a beer in all that time because I knew that any mind altering substance would eventually take me back to the Crystal. I grew to hate Crystal for what it caused me to give up. I wasn't normal and I knew that I could never be normal again from that point on, especially branded with sixes, which happened to cover the scar from a diamond back rattlesnake that bit me when I was 18 (6+6+6=18?). After I was bitten by that snake, I had nightmares, practically every night for a year, of snakes biting me. I knew that the fear of the extreme pain I suffered from that bite was the only thing still haunting me, so I finally set out to put them to rest by overpowering their hold on me. As I walked through a room filled with snakes in my next nightmare, I told them they had no power over me, and they didn't. That was the last snake dream I ever had. I won my battle... or so I thought.

My siXes might just represent my being born and raised in Sin City, home of the triple X's, Yet after almost 18 years of truly believing I was Jesus- and the Antichrist- I heard a new voice that was not my own. It was Him. I first heard it at the 3 day Phish show in the Florida everglades for the millennium concert (a life changing experience), which soon caused me to denounce my Antichristianity and become what I fought for so long, a Christian. That's when I took the entire site down and lost many friends from my desertion.

At the height of my Antichristianity I actually thought that Las Vegas would be destroyed by a major earthquake at the strike of midnight of the year 2000. I thought that the Luxor pyramid was the tower of Babel because the "top reached unto heaven", and Vegas fit the profile of Babylon all too well; the great city in Revelation that God was going to destroy because of the sin. I thought that the Christian's belief in hell was what caused Vegas to be built as the sacrifice to show them what their beliefs were creating. When I finished my 3 years of sexual abstinence, I asked the Luxor (my spiritual icon) for a partner. I received her on the same day I asked for her, although it took a few weeks to discover that it was her. She was a witch who spoke in symbols that only I would understand, and she said she had been looking for me since she was about nine. She is Aries, the Ram, and always wanted to meet the guy who carved the ram that was used in the movie Rocky IV. I carved it for the Samson and Delilah scene in the Jubilee Show at the MGM, which was later used in the movie. We were baffled by the magic that took place in our meeting that August, in Augusta, Georgia, and even more so by the mirrored lives we led that prepared us to be together, once we compared stories. Cara and I were married that Halloween, of '98. I worked with her cousin for about 3 years by the actual Field Of Dreams (7.3 miles from the birthplace of the 7-tuplits). When Cara's cousin first mentioned my name to her, she was looking at it on the cover of a book about the Grateful Dead, written by an author with the same name. She knew then that she had to meet me, but she didn't know that I had carved her favorite piece of art until later. She has always had extraordinary magical powers that she doesn't find all that special, because she's always had them, but Cara is by far the most powerful white witch this world has ever seen (she hates when I say that... oh well!). However, a dark cloud still looms over me by the fact that the day the ram was first taken outside to be tested, the MGM caught fire... killing 84 people. Another mark against me.

Cara calls herself an ecclesiastic witch because she uses all belief systems to gain her power, but she doesn't like the word "witch" because of what many people think of them. My earthquake prophecy was the thing that kept us apart mostly. After many months of trying to stop my religious craziness on this site, Cara finally got through to me when she said, "If one single soul is hurt in any way, shape or form, it is not of God. Your belief in that earthquake is the same as the Christian's fire." Her statement hit like a ton of bricks because I could never explain, until then, why my vision of the earthquake had fire shooting out of the cracks.

Right after becoming "Christian" I called all the world's demons into me. I dared them to square off, to take their best shot. I knew it was the only way that I could fully understand what we are ALL dealing with. My life immediately became a modified version of Poltergeist mixed with The Exorcist. I saw dark spirits walk into my closest ones- when they weren't in me- to the point of my wondering if any of this is real. Now I see why I've never fought those physical fights in life... Mr. love-and-peace wuss... yeah me... never saw my size of mind. I thought they all just must have known better, while everyone around me fought like cats and dogs. I called my greatest demon of all, back into my rivers of blood... yes Mr. Crystal, a see of glass, gnashing teeth and little sleep, along with Mary, wanna know what I learned? Wait'll ya see.

They killed my Gina (she liked Crystal also) to whom I owe the most. She stood up for me against anyone talking bad of my past perversions, knowing that it wasn't really me... and she was right. But on the three and one half year, dead on the mark of the opening of this site, she hit a drunken light pole, and came to life. I see her almost every day. She can even morph like Cara does... they are two of a KIND.

My chess pieces are all in place. I have a miracle or two for you, that you will see right now, if you can hear this song. I have Slipped Knot into temp(er)tation... got a couple of T-shirts for all the work that I've done giving them their rise to fame and fortune... a very sickening dessert served with a dead black bird (dark spirit). Then, my latest call, was for MURDER, a band of thugs with numbers (187). A class of Ice-T helped them mix some new Colors, that I know all too well. My life is in the balance, in the John, lendin' a little Help. Now I'm going for a Royal type of flush... to land a little spare change of mines, with a new roll of the Die. The key that I was given, is to do away with such mellow-drama death. It's just a joke I sent to me, to keep my sixed hand mind on the feet, underground. I was upside down. Head stone tongues, and the earth's open mouth, takes back some dead-end wor(l)ds.

 

A glass of dark juice? Orange you going to ask what orange and black might have to do with slashing victims and getting away with it? I started the epidemic, having produced TEN of the worlds best haunted houses ever made, with plenty of people who would agree. I am the master of "scaring", "scarring" or scared of the ring as I seem to be. But this Cowardly Lion (my wife calls me) is going to finally stand up for the cross, now over my heart, instead of behind. I'm at the cross roads of my own soul, and I know how to scare a little sense into all who see the need for the strike 3 of world war. I'm replacing that, which I used to believe was inevitable... with nothing more than a blood dripping investment that the TEN days like Hell-o-wean represents. It's the most perfect Tripulation, as told in Revelation (2:10). Take this offer, Christians please. I can fix everything with this new key that I've been given. I am of you, and couldn't be here without your prayers calling me. My thoughts are not my own, now that I see I'm running programs of floating dreams that move through the air. I'm bouncing them back off my darkest spot into the heavens, with the brightest light on EARth, much like the type I'm realling INN. The painter in white linen (the line in) is made of light mixed with colors of Time, which is MY part, as my numbers imply. Our Point Of Entry is the big inning in sights set for home, most unlike a world set on fire with minds and mouths full of flame mixed with bones.

We have been running programs that we are about to be woken up from. No matter how distant we like to think we are from them, all things that happen in the world, bad and good, are extended, expanded, exaggerated versions of every one of us. I don't know whether or not I'm a Christian anymore because it might compromise my believing every single thing of all other belief systems. What we don't know right now, is that without all forms of belief- or lack of- we couldn't eventually gain the ONE truth that so many think they already have. If there truly were One way to believe, then the world would already be perfect, because it would have magically fixed everything wrong with it.

 

We are all under a great deal of time constraints, therefore nobody should listen to MY life story or hear MY point of view, unless it could help them, nor should they unless it could. I have performed miraculous healings... the nurses and doctors agreed. But the heart was the greatest heal of my ability. I'll share this story with you, but first...

Bill is paid, Gates are open... thus I'm calling my 8-man ball to the corner stone spot. I cut all lines of communication through the Crystal and the burning bush. Until I gain entry to the MGM Grand mansions, I cannot proceed any further with the healing segments of this program. But until such time, if you feel so inclined to help out....... I have some cornerstones that were left-over from the building of the Grand mansions that I'm doing some art stuff to, then selling for ten thousand each... till their gone (only one per city)... and with them I'll be giving out some new kinds of dreams.

My name is David Royal Dalton, born on 12/12/55 at 12:01 afternoon. You might think I'm crazy, and that's fine, I'm an artist, I agree, but if you want to help out my new "fix the world" plan, your best bet's on me. Please FAX a letter with your name, mailing address, phone number and a brief summary of your take on life, and I will get back with you about preparing your custom-painted cornerstone made of a new kind of artistic light. The money from these cornerstones will go toward a new computer program that will change the world. The cornerstone supply is limited, therefore the price is going up rapidly. So, in order to get one for 10 thousand dollars, make sure you at least FAX your information on or before the 10th of this month to start the ball rolling. The price is going up to 100 thousand bucks after that.

FAX #702-458-????

Dave (aka www.antichrist.net)

PS- I guess I'm onto something, because I'm doing magic now that I can prove to any scientist, theologian or skeptic... however, the magic of it is that I'm not alone, therefore, to protect everyone lined up at my new doorway, I must have all the legal, political and Real People TV crews in place at the Mansions before I can proceed with such an endeavor... till then, happy spelling B.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 15, 2008, 10:15:47 PM
Typical athiest webpage...
What did Atheists do to you exactly, there are mental health clinics that can see to this problem you have you know.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on December 16, 2008, 10:20:50 AM
Most atheists are annoying pedestrian losers...I've moved on
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 16, 2008, 10:32:10 AM
So what are you now? A nihilist?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on December 16, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
I'm nothing
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on December 16, 2008, 01:29:34 PM
I would do this too but I am to lazy to type very long
That and you couldn't conceive the purpose of "ctrl+c" and "ctrl+v".
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 16, 2008, 01:40:14 PM
I would do this too but I am to lazy to type very long
That and you couldn't conceive the purpose of "ctrl+c" and "ctrl+v".
I didn't realize that it was just repeated.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 16, 2008, 01:41:38 PM
I would do this too but I am to lazy to type very long
That and you couldn't conceive the purpose of "ctrl+c" and "ctrl+v".
I didn't realize that it was just repeated.

No, it is really a long rambling text. Feel free to read it all. He means you can find that giant block of text on the internet, and copy paste it into a thread.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 16, 2008, 02:03:41 PM
Though it is repeated at least three times.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: paddy on December 17, 2008, 11:40:46 PM
Out of curiosity, what do theists want from atheists?

Looking back, and thinking about all the religious people I've known:  the wisest Christian, the wisest Wiccan, the wisest Buddhist, the wisest Hindu, the wisest Muslim, the wisest Jewish person, etc... no two of them could agree on which religion was right.  Even within Christianity, the wisest Catholic, the wisest Mormon, the wisest Baptist, the wisest Jehovah Witness - no two of them could agree on which branch of Christianity was right

There are atheists who are annoying as hell I am sure - just as there are annoying people of all faiths or lack thereof, but they don't seem any more annoying that the zealous vegans or greenies or any other human with a specifically zealous cause. 

If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 18, 2008, 10:58:46 AM
I think that what all religions want from people outside the religion is to make a choice: Croak, either by natural or less natural causes, or convert. Also, for the record, it's jew, not jewish person.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 18, 2008, 04:16:59 PM
The religious want more drones for the most part. 

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 18, 2008, 04:24:15 PM
The atheists want more company in hell.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Guessed on December 18, 2008, 04:50:39 PM
The atheists want more company in hell.

sig'd for truth. I'll bring the chips.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on December 19, 2008, 03:35:51 AM
And I make a great garlic dip.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Roundearthperson on December 29, 2008, 02:49:18 PM
That was from the Uncyclopedia.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 29, 2008, 09:24:21 PM
The religious want more drones for the most part. 
And the spiritual just want to get along.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 30, 2008, 03:56:14 AM
The religious want more drones for the most part. 
And the spiritual just want to get along.
...

You're kidding, right?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 30, 2008, 05:54:12 AM
If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Have you ever heard the story of the Twins?

It goes like this:

There are two twin siblings and both have messy rooms.

One of the Twins, finding it hard to get the things that he wants from within the mess, realises that if the room was tidied, then he would find it easier to get the things he wants. And so he tidies his room.

The other Twin only tidies his room because his parents threaten to punish him if he does not obey them, and offers rewards if he does obey them.

Which of the twins is the better child?

This is like Religion and Atheism. Religions have a Superior force that give them the rules by which they are to act and threatens them with punishment if they do not obey and offers them a reward if they do obey. Atheists, with the lack of a higher authority have had to work out what rules work and what don't by themselves.

The Atheists are like the First Twin that has worked out that a tidy room is better for them than an messy room, where as the religious are like the second twin in that they require their rules to be told to them and only do them under threat of punishment and offer of reward.

This shows that Atheists appear to be more moral than the religious.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 30, 2008, 06:42:10 AM
The religious want more drones for the most part. 
And the spiritual just want to get along.
...

You're kidding, right?

Yes. Unless they are being manipulated by the powerful, but that may just be them conforming to the social norms of that particular belief and no real spirituality.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 30, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
The religious want more drones for the most part. 
And the spiritual just want to get along.
...

You're kidding, right?
Yeah. I was tired and screwing around mostly.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dr Matrix on December 31, 2008, 05:11:21 AM
If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Have you ever heard the story of the Twins?

It goes like this:

There are two twin siblings and both have messy rooms.

One of the Twins, finding it hard to get the things that he wants from within the mess, realises that if the room was tidied, then he would find it easier to get the things he wants. And so he tidies his room.

The other Twin only tidies his room because his parents threaten to punish him if he does not obey them, and offers rewards if he does obey them.

Which of the twins is the better child?

This is like Religion and Atheism. Religions have a Superior force that give them the rules by which they are to act and threatens them with punishment if they do not obey and offers them a reward if they do obey. Atheists, with the lack of a higher authority have had to work out what rules work and what don't by themselves.

The Atheists are like the First Twin that has worked out that a tidy room is better for them than an messy room, where as the religious are like the second twin in that they require their rules to be told to them and only do them under threat of punishment and offer of reward.

This shows that Atheists appear to be more moral than the religious.

Win.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 31, 2008, 10:10:04 AM
If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Have you ever heard the story of the Twins?

It goes like this:

There are two twin siblings and both have messy rooms.

One of the Twins, finding it hard to get the things that he wants from within the mess, realises that if the room was tidied, then he would find it easier to get the things he wants. And so he tidies his room.

The other Twin only tidies his room because his parents threaten to punish him if he does not obey them, and offers rewards if he does obey them.

Which of the twins is the better child?

This is like Religion and Atheism. Religions have a Superior force that give them the rules by which they are to act and threatens them with punishment if they do not obey and offers them a reward if they do obey. Atheists, with the lack of a higher authority have had to work out what rules work and what don't by themselves.

The Atheists are like the First Twin that has worked out that a tidy room is better for them than an messy room, where as the religious are like the second twin in that they require their rules to be told to them and only do them under threat of punishment and offer of reward.

This shows that Atheists appear to be more moral than the religious.
But that is assuming that all Atheists do the right thing. And just because I follow the commendments doesn't mean I don't know when something is right or wrong. I would estimate that 90% of the situations in which I need to decide to go one way or the other are not addressed in the bible. I make the decision based on what is right and wrong. So that is a nice little anecdote but ultimately useless.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Jesus Crotch on December 31, 2008, 12:48:39 PM
If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Have you ever heard the story of the Twins?

It goes like this:

There are two twin siblings and both have messy rooms.

One of the Twins, finding it hard to get the things that he wants from within the mess, realises that if the room was tidied, then he would find it easier to get the things he wants. And so he tidies his room.

The other Twin only tidies his room because his parents threaten to punish him if he does not obey them, and offers rewards if he does obey them.

Which of the twins is the better child?

This is like Religion and Atheism. Religions have a Superior force that give them the rules by which they are to act and threatens them with punishment if they do not obey and offers them a reward if they do obey. Atheists, with the lack of a higher authority have had to work out what rules work and what don't by themselves.

The Atheists are like the First Twin that has worked out that a tidy room is better for them than an messy room, where as the religious are like the second twin in that they require their rules to be told to them and only do them under threat of punishment and offer of reward.

This shows that Atheists appear to be more moral than the religious.
But that is assuming that all Atheists do the right thing. And just because I follow the commendments doesn't mean I don't know when something is right or wrong. I would estimate that 90% of the situations in which I need to decide to go one way or the other are not addressed in the bible. I make the decision based on what is right and wrong. So that is a nice little anecdote but ultimately useless.

Oh, goodie!  The commandments!  Lets see, almost half of them are about Yaweh's vainglorious jealousy, two more are thought crimes, two control who you fuck, and one is designed to ensure a family stays loyal to the church through the generations.  That leaves one about killing (which really tells Jews not to kill other Jews - clearly Yaweh wanted them to kill lots of other tribes, just not their own.), one about stealing, and one about lying. 

This is a code to live by?  I need more direction than that, let me read a bit more.  Ahhh, there we go, Deuteronomy! - lots of rules for me there!

Deuteronomy 14:21: You shall not boil a young goat in its mother?s milk. Phew!  I was just about to drop that goat in the pot, too!

Ohh, and Leviticus - I should find some direction for my life there!

Leviticus 20:13:  If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.  Damnit, I have gay friends!  I better check some more.

Leviticus 21:16-24:  Speak to Aaron, saying, None of your offspring throughout their generations who has a blemish may(R) approach to offer the bread of his God. 18For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man(S) blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face(T) or a limb too long, 19or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, 20or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a(U) defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or(V) crushed testicles. 21No man of the offspring of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to(W) offer the LORD?s food offerings; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. 22He may eat the bread of his God, both of(X) the most holy and of the(Y) holy things, 23but he shall not go through the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not(Z) profane my sanctuaries,(AA) for I am the LORD who sanctifies them." 24So Moses spoke to Aaron and to his sons and to all the people of Israel.
  Wow, I sure am glad I'm not in any way malformed, apparently Yaweh doesn't want people to have to look at that shit!

OK, I'll check Exodus, maybe there's something sensible in there:

Exodus 22:18:  You shall not permit a sorceress to live.  Well, shit, my best friend and his wife are well versed in the Craft of the Wise (students of mine, years ago).  I guess I'll have to kill her.  There goes one of the decent commandments!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on December 31, 2008, 12:52:07 PM
I'm sorry, do you send a horribly deformed person with scabs to present a king with bread? Why would you do it to God?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 31, 2008, 12:54:59 PM
WOW! You really showed me! Good Job looking on Google for Bible passages that don't make sense or whatever. I find it really funny how much scripture is quoted at me here.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Jesus Crotch on December 31, 2008, 01:21:32 PM
WOW! You really showed me! Good Job looking on Google for Bible passages that don't make sense or whatever. I find it really funny how much scripture is quoted at me here.

Right... because I'd never had this discussion before, and all I threw out there were passages that don't make sense.  Think about it - who gets to choose which verses are sensible?  The commandments are ludicrous, and most of the mandates within the OT are complete moral skulduggery.  There are instructions on how to properly make burnt offerings, for fuck's sake!  Is this a book you want your kids to look to for moral guidance?  Is this our source of direction as to what is good and what is evil?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  The Judeo-Christian god is about as likely to exist as the Smurfs, and if he does, I don't want anything to do with the prick.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on December 31, 2008, 01:36:50 PM
WOW! You really showed me! Good Job looking on Google for Bible passages that don't make sense or whatever. I find it really funny how much scripture is quoted at me here.

Right... because I'd never had this discussion before, and all I threw out there were passages that don't make sense.  Think about it - who gets to choose which verses are sensible?  The commandments are ludicrous, and most of the mandates within the OT are complete moral skulduggery.  There are instructions on how to properly make burnt offerings, for fuck's sake!  Is this a book you want your kids to look to for moral guidance?  Is this our source of direction as to what is good and what is evil?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  The Judeo-Christian god is about as likely to exist as the Smurfs, and if he does, I don't want anything to do with the prick.
Alright, you can believe that. I don't have all the answers to your questions so I might as well give up.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on December 31, 2008, 04:55:50 PM
Isn't the whole point of religion to answer questions science isn't able to? Now the tables have turned, it seems!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on December 31, 2008, 07:21:00 PM
If you want to believe that Atheists are somehow less moral than religious people, I guess you can keep checking your closest and under the bed for them before you go to sleep, what ever floats your boat.... but what exactly do you want from us?
Have you ever heard the story of the Twins?

It goes like this:

There are two twin siblings and both have messy rooms.

One of the Twins, finding it hard to get the things that he wants from within the mess, realises that if the room was tidied, then he would find it easier to get the things he wants. And so he tidies his room.

The other Twin only tidies his room because his parents threaten to punish him if he does not obey them, and offers rewards if he does obey them.

Which of the twins is the better child?

This is like Religion and Atheism. Religions have a Superior force that give them the rules by which they are to act and threatens them with punishment if they do not obey and offers them a reward if they do obey. Atheists, with the lack of a higher authority have had to work out what rules work and what don't by themselves.

The Atheists are like the First Twin that has worked out that a tidy room is better for them than an messy room, where as the religious are like the second twin in that they require their rules to be told to them and only do them under threat of punishment and offer of reward.

This shows that Atheists appear to be more moral than the religious.
But that is assuming that all Atheists do the right thing. And just because I follow the commendments doesn't mean I don't know when something is right or wrong. I would estimate that 90% of the situations in which I need to decide to go one way or the other are not addressed in the bible. I make the decision based on what is right and wrong. So that is a nice little anecdote but ultimately useless.
And all religious people do the right thing right... [/sarcasm]

No. That was not what I was saying. It was in response to the claim that Atheists were less moral than the Religious. I was disproving that claim.

It is a common argument against Atheism, that saying that because they don't have a higher Authority from which they get their Morals, then they must therefore act immorally.

The fact is, if you only follow a morality based on threat of punishment and offer of reward, then you can not claim you have a higher morality because your morality is only "Don't get punished and get the reward". It is based in Self Interest.

If however, you have had to develop a morality from scratch, then you can claim moral high ground because your morality is based on the interests of the whole, not just the self, and since morality (and ethics) are about behaviours in a group (society), actually looking at the interests of the group is far better than self interest.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: divito the truthist on December 31, 2008, 08:00:39 PM
I make the decision based on what is right and wrong.

So who told you that?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: ﮎingulaЯiτy on December 31, 2008, 08:06:47 PM
But that is assuming that all Atheists do the right thing. And just because I follow the commendments doesn't mean I don't know when something is right or wrong. I would estimate that 90% of the situations in which I need to decide to go one way or the other are not addressed in the bible. I make the decision based on what is right and wrong. So that is a nice little anecdote but ultimately useless.
That example shows both atheists and religious people as acting 'right'. Both groups of atheists and religious people have people who act wrongly. I think you have this perverse idea that atheists are more immoral than religious people.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: 0din on January 02, 2009, 09:56:46 AM
This is what it would be like, if the majority of people were athiests.
ATHIEST KID: Mom, I'm going to go fuck a hooker.
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, son.
So, what you are basically saying is that if you don't believe a cosmic overlord for whose existence there is no evidence will burn you in a made up place forever if you dont obey his will you will be an extremely bad parent and won't give a shit if your kid goes in jail or gets an STD.
ATHIEST KID: Afterwards, I'm going to go smoke pot with my friends, since it's "not addictive."
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, come home soon!
Your opinion about pot being addictive has nothing to do with you being an atheist. I bet that there is roughly the same percentage of pot smokers in both the christian and atheist population.
The athiest kid leaves the room. The father comes home from work several minutes later.

ATHIEST DAD: Hey!
ATHIEST MOM: Hi, honey! I'm pregnant again. I guess I'll just get another abortion, since "fetuses don't count as human life."
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, get as many abortions as you want!
If abortion is murder, masturbation is genocide. It's a joke by the way. If the child is unwanted it would be better to just end its "life" when it's a fetus and doesnt have a conscience rather than completely fucking up his life after the child discovers the joys of it.
ATHIEST MOM: Oh, and don't go in the bedroom.
ATHIEST DAD: Why not?
ATHIEST MOM: There are two gay men fucking eachother in there.
ATHIEST DAD: Why are they here?
ATHIEST MOM: I wanted to watch them do it for awhile. They just aren't finished yet.
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, that's fine with me!
What is wrong with homosexuality, and what's wrong with them having sex in their bedroom if the owners of the bedroom have no problem with that.
Suddenly, their neighbor runs into the house.

ATHIEST NEIGHBOR: Come quick, there's a Christian outside!
ATHIEST MOM: We'll be right there!

The athiest couple quickly put on a pair of black robes and hoods. They then exit the house, and run into the street, where a Christian is nailed to a large, wooden X. He is being burned alive. A crowd of athiests stand around him, all wearing black robes and hoods.

RANDOM ATHIEST: Damn you, Christian! We hate you! We claim to be tolerant of all religions. But we really hate your's! That's because we athiests are hypocritical like that! Die, Christian!

I don't hate people if they are christian, I hate people that are ignorant assholes. I have many christian friends and I'm getting along with them just fine.
THE END

Scary, isn't it?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Trekky0623 on January 02, 2009, 10:51:05 PM
ATHEISM:

GOD APPROVED
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on January 07, 2009, 12:03:44 PM
I actually lol'd. Were I God, I'd have approved of atheism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Edtharan on January 07, 2009, 09:50:22 PM
I actually lol'd. Were I God, I'd have approved of atheism.
yes with out all these people praying all they time, He could sit back in His cloud and watch the Footy on Sundays...  ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on January 07, 2009, 11:15:40 PM
Maybe his ultimate goal for mankind was that we learn to depend on ourselves instead of a supernatural being that could probably care less about our insignificant little problems.  Who doesn't want to just be left alone from time to time?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Moonlit on January 08, 2009, 08:29:52 AM
Maybe his ultimate goal for mankind was that we learn to depend on ourselves instead of a supernatural being that could probably care less about our insignificant little problems.  Who doesn't want to just be left alone from time to time?

My husband claims to hate it.  I freaking love alone time.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on January 08, 2009, 02:02:11 PM
I actually lol'd. Were I God, I'd have approved of atheism.
yes with out all these people praying all they time, He could sit back in His cloud and watch the Footy on Sundays...  ;D

assuming he exists, isn't that what he does anyway?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on January 08, 2009, 03:01:54 PM
I don't think so. God strikes me as more of a hockey or baseball guy.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Ravenwood240 on January 08, 2009, 03:54:45 PM
I don't think so. God strikes me as more of a hockey or baseball guy.

God likes basketball.  The Devil told me so.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on January 08, 2009, 04:00:43 PM
How do you know he wasn't lying? Because Shaq-Fu was a hit, and that can't happen without divine intervention. It's the same reason that nobody's noticed every incarnation of Mario is pretty much the same, and not very good, either.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Ravenwood240 on January 08, 2009, 04:04:29 PM
How do you know he wasn't lying? Because Shaq-Fu was a hit, and that can't happen without divine intervention. It's the same reason that nobody's noticed every incarnation of Mario is pretty much the same, and not very good, either.

They bet on the games.  God doesn't do Mario, that's the Devil's work.  God does admit to helping the Shaq-Fu out... but only as a joke.

The Devil lie? :o ::)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: BabyGirlLove on January 10, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 13, 2009, 03:18:19 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 13, 2009, 03:23:58 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on January 13, 2009, 03:25:07 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

I only read the first sentence of this post, then didn't boether to read your other proceeding sentences.

LURK MOAR.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on January 13, 2009, 03:31:00 PM
Want Althy back  :'(
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: BabyGirlLove on January 13, 2009, 04:05:55 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 13, 2009, 04:36:14 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She
whoops, sorry :-[
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 13, 2009, 05:58:06 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job
Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She

Seeing as you are reading your replies, could you please tell us whom your post was directed at?

EDIT: Whoops, made a mistake there.  Fix'd.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: BabyGirlLove on January 13, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Seeing as you are reading your replies, could you please tell us whom your post was directed at?
Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She

Quote
I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies

To the original poster
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on January 14, 2009, 12:05:53 PM
Yeah, Althalus was a dick.

I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She

Pics or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on January 14, 2009, 02:43:00 PM
Yeah, Althalus was a dick.

I just read this post, and I was so discusted by it that I didnt even bother to read everyone elses replies.
Since you are so filled with hate inside your self and can not respect others beliefs then you can just live with yourself. You will be questioned for your actions when you pass. Along with your words and thoughts. You should really think clearly, clear your words, clear your mind and clear your thoughts before speaking. Or in this case, typing.
You must be a child being taught that anything but your religion is evil and wrong. If you were smart, then maybe you should do more research and quit believe whatever it is your mind is being filled with. I will not return to this post to see your reply. This is a annoying post you ahve here and its not my job

Who are you talking to?  Althalus?  The OP was a quote from Fundies Say The Darndest Things.  Althalus just likes to troll.
He just said he is not looking at the reply. Can you tell if he is religious or Atheist? I can't.

Im a She

[]TITS
or
[]GTFO


fixed
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 14, 2009, 10:41:19 PM
Seeing as you are reading your replies, could you please tell us whom your post was directed at?
To the original poster
Really? I thought it was rather funny at the time.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on January 16, 2009, 03:07:18 PM
So, to get back to the scenario posted in the first post, is there anyone here who disagrees with me when I say that this might be any group of people, provided the circumstances were the right(or should I say wrong) ones?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 16, 2009, 05:12:08 PM
So, to get back to the scenario posted in the first post, is there anyone here who disagrees with me when I say that this might be any group of people, provided the circumstances were the right(or should I say wrong) ones?

It could be.  I don't see how it relates to atheism at all.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 16, 2009, 05:41:26 PM
So, to get back to the scenario posted in the first post, is there anyone here who disagrees with me when I say that this might be any group of people, provided the circumstances were the right(or should I say wrong) ones?

It could be.  I don't see how it relates to atheism at all.
it doesn't really, but it was still funny.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on January 17, 2009, 03:46:49 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 17, 2009, 08:27:12 AM
I agree.
It's about time we agreed on something.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on January 17, 2009, 11:33:26 AM
I guess we'd agree more if your opinions weren't so retarted all the time. :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Shredderbeam on January 17, 2009, 04:06:35 PM
This is what it would be like, if the majority of people were athiests.
ATHIEST KID: Mom, I'm going to go fuck a hooker.
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, son.
ATHIEST KID: Afterwards, I'm going to go smoke pot with my friends, since it's "not addictive."
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, come home soon!

The athiest kid leaves the room. The father comes home from work several minutes later.

ATHIEST DAD: Hey!
ATHIEST MOM: Hi, honey! I'm pregnant again. I guess I'll just get another abortion, since "fetuses don't count as human life."
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, get as many abortions as you want!
ATHIEST MOM: Oh, and don't go in the bedroom.
ATHIEST DAD: Why not?
ATHIEST MOM: There are two gay men fucking eachother in there.
ATHIEST DAD: Why are they here?
ATHIEST MOM: I wanted to watch them do it for awhile. They just aren't finished yet.
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, that's fine with me!

Suddenly, their neighbor runs into the house.

ATHIEST NEIGHBOR: Come quick, there's a Christian outside!
ATHIEST MOM: We'll be right there!

The athiest couple quickly put on a pair of black robes and hoods. They then exit the house, and run into the street, where a Christian is nailed to a large, wooden X. He is being burned alive. A crowd of athiests stand around him, all wearing black robes and hoods.

RANDOM ATHIEST: Damn you, Christian! We hate you! We claim to be tolerant of all religions. But we really hate your's! That's because we athiests are hypocritical like that! Die, Christian!

THE END

Scary, isn't it?

Obvious troll is obvious.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on January 18, 2009, 01:06:54 PM
Gone troll is gone.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on January 18, 2009, 01:55:44 PM
I guess we'd agree more if your opinions weren't so retarted all the time. :)
Right back atcha. ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: jakheadfuk on January 29, 2009, 10:18:06 PM
i'm an atheist that believes in killing christians! i mean they think they're going to heaven anyway right? so i'm, like, doing them a favour, no? they all seriously LOVE being persecuted (to the point where they will wee it even if it isn't happening!) i'm not all just talking about shooting them or anything boring like that (boring! i live in the UK a gunshot wound would be the most exiting thing i've seen in ages!) but if you know your history you'll know that the romans devides many very entertaining ways of offing your 'crazy' monotheist. why not update this for the modern era?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on January 29, 2009, 10:48:46 PM
Wow. Thanks for being late to the discussion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on January 30, 2009, 10:29:01 AM
i'm an atheist that believes in killing christians! i mean they think they're going to heaven anyway right? so i'm, like, doing them a favour, no? they all seriously LOVE being persecuted (to the point where they will wee it even if it isn't happening!) i'm not all just talking about shooting them or anything boring like that (boring! i live in the UK a gunshot wound would be the most exiting thing i've seen in ages!) but if you know your history you'll know that the romans devides many very entertaining ways of offing your 'crazy' monotheist. why not update this for the modern era?
I'm an Athiest that believes that you should be locked up.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on January 30, 2009, 11:24:03 AM
i'm an atheist that believes in killing christians! i mean they think they're going to heaven anyway right? so i'm, like, doing them a favour, no? they all seriously LOVE being persecuted (to the point where they will wee it even if it isn't happening!) i'm not all just talking about shooting them or anything boring like that (boring! i live in the UK a gunshot wound would be the most exiting thing i've seen in ages!) but if you know your history you'll know that the romans devides many very entertaining ways of offing your 'crazy' monotheist. why not update this for the modern era?

I believe it's because we're going to kill sadists first.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: jakheadfuk on January 30, 2009, 12:12:45 PM
"I'm an Athiest that believes that you should be locked up."

why? now, we all know that killing people is wrong in and of itself. however, when you slaughter a believer you're not so much 'killing' them as 'sending them to heaven', no? i also believe that your chances with ol' st. paul (or whoever's supposed to be manning the gate these days) are that much better if you die a matyr.

they get to go straight to heaven.
i get to live in a world free of superstition.
our grandchildren get to live, at all.

isn't that what's called a win/win?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on January 30, 2009, 12:15:46 PM
No, it's murder.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on January 30, 2009, 12:26:19 PM
"I'm an Athiest that believes that you should be locked up."

why? now, we all know that killing people is wrong in and of itself. however, when you slaughter a believer you're not so much 'killing' them as 'sending them to heaven', no? i also believe that your chances with ol' st. paul (or whoever's supposed to be manning the gate these days) are that much better if you die a matyr.

they get to go straight to heaven.
i get to live in a world free of superstition.
our grandchildren get to live, at all.

isn't that what's called a win/win?
No, it's murder.
Debating sense into them is win, killing them makes martyrs, see the tale of Jesus for examples of martyrdom.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: jakheadfuk on January 30, 2009, 01:32:23 PM
"No, it's murder."

but what if i can convince said monotheists that i'm doing them a favour (as i surely would be) and they come forward? volunteering for martyrdom, say? surely then it's more of an assisted-suicide kinda deal? would that not be more palatable?

i'm just trying to make everybody happy here. why would a monotheist want to spend any more time on the mortal plane that absolutely necessary? if i 'martyr' someone they are pretty much guaranteed of a fast track to heaven. I don't want to live in a world full of people with superstitious delusions. what with their whole 'dominion' thing monotheists are clearly a danger to all of us. killing poeple (whilst undoubtedly unpleasant) is a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than reversing years of brainwashing (if such a thing were even possible).

i am not a horrible person, i'm just trying to make the world a better place for everyone.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on January 30, 2009, 01:47:36 PM
What, convincing morons that they want to die means it isn't murder to kill them? Excuse me, I have some morons to influence. *Goes to Kingman's house*
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: jakheadfuk on January 30, 2009, 05:29:27 PM
well technically, i suppose, but i reckon these here 'culture wars' aint gonna be ending with tea, cakes & handshakes. so if some of us have to leave so the rest can stay it might as well be the lot with somewhere to go to that go, as it were.

you know it makes sense...

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: theonlydann on January 30, 2009, 06:11:19 PM
well technically, i suppose, but i reckon these here 'culture wars' aint gonna be ending with tea, cakes & handshakes. so if some of us have to leave so the rest can stay it might as well be the lot with somewhere to go to that go, as it were.

you know it makes sense...


you're one of those idiots that people cite as an example for religion being a source of morality.

Stop making the rest of us look stupid.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on January 30, 2009, 07:12:48 PM
well technically, i suppose, but i reckon these here 'culture wars' aint gonna be ending with tea, cakes & handshakes. so if some of us have to leave so the rest can stay it might as well be the lot with somewhere to go to that go, as it were.

you know it makes sense...



So banning you is just releasing you from the time constraints of posting here. Bye.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on January 31, 2009, 05:38:58 AM
well technically, i suppose, but i reckon these here 'culture wars' aint gonna be ending with tea, cakes & handshakes. so if some of us have to leave so the rest can stay it might as well be the lot with somewhere to go to that go, as it were.

you know it makes sense...



So banning you is just releasing you from the time constraints of posting here. Bye.
You have benefitted him greatly, sparing him from wasting any more time on this part of the internet, he'll be happy about that, it'll be like his own little heaven :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 31, 2009, 09:35:28 AM
That was a blatantly obvious troll.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on February 02, 2009, 07:01:40 AM
That was a blatantly obvious troll.
Being one helps spotting them, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 03, 2009, 02:14:46 PM
That was a blatantly obvious troll.
Being one helps spotting them, doesn't it?
Yes
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: articulo mortis on February 06, 2009, 10:22:27 PM
You make it seem like without being part of the Christian faith, you lack all sense of any "moral compass".  This is not true, I'm sure all of us know many Atheists who are much more kind and caring than another "Christian" we know of. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 06, 2009, 10:40:16 PM
You make it seem like without being part of the Christian faith, you lack all sense of any "moral compass".  This is not true, I'm sure all of us know many Atheists who are much more kind and caring than another "Christian" we know of. 
No one is always kind and caring. Everyone has weak spots. No one is truly "Good"
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mythix Profit on February 06, 2009, 10:43:44 PM
Quote
I'm sure all of us know many Atheists who are much more kind and caring than another "Christian" we know of.  


Isaac Asimov vs Tomas de Torquemada is an excellent example.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: articulo mortis on February 06, 2009, 11:03:13 PM
Obviously no one is always good, humans are inherently evil in my opinion.  But if you are atheist, you can still have morals.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mythix Profit on February 06, 2009, 11:09:52 PM
Obviously no one is always good, humans are inherently evil in my opinion.  But if you are atheist, you can still have morals.

Based upon my experience; I disagree with your opinion, and fully support your statement.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on February 07, 2009, 06:24:48 AM
I've always wondered how those who don't believe in God use the language and concepts of a transcendent Good. To be moral, morality must exist beyond the subject, or it's useless to speak of.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 07, 2009, 01:19:32 PM
I've always wondered how those who don't believe in God use the language and concepts of a transcendent Good. To be moral, morality must exist beyond the subject, or it's useless to speak of.

Then would we not also have to give up the concept of humanity, because there would be nothing defining us from the other animals. There is nothing beyond the subject to the word human. We watch as animals get more intelligent they follow the same traits. Usually similar group behaviors form, because dealing with social structures requires intelligence. As intelligence increases, certain rules come about.

These inherent rules are ones based on empathy, intelligence, and tact. So in a roundabout way, perhaps good is an inherent thing, because it is logical.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on February 07, 2009, 04:57:59 PM
...because there would be nothing defining us from the other animals.
Yet humans are just animals, why seperate them from other animals with definition?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 07, 2009, 05:00:53 PM
...because there would be nothing defining us from the other animals.
Yet humans are just animals, why seperate them from other animals with definition?
I didn't say you should. How are we human then?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on February 07, 2009, 05:03:23 PM
Genetics.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 07, 2009, 05:13:51 PM
Genetics.

I didn't say homo sapien, I meant human in the way people describe humanity.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on February 07, 2009, 05:18:23 PM
Genetics.

I didn't say homo sapien, I meant human in the way people describe humanity.
The term "humanity" is mainly used by elitist delusional ignorant guilt mongerers.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 07, 2009, 05:20:42 PM
Genetics.

I didn't say homo sapien, I meant human in the way people describe humanity.
The term "humanity" is mainly used by elitist delusional ignorant guilt mongerers.

I've heard it used by many people, and I do believe it an ignorant term. Just like good, but I also explained how they are not based on god necessarily but why we would pawn these traits off as being holy in nature. Sorry if I missed my point, I was extremely hung over.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 09, 2009, 08:54:54 PM
Question. Why do atheist always Have to be the ones who are called immoral as a group even though the inquisition and things like it were caused by religions? I have heard a lot less stories about large groups of atheist going on killing sprees compared to other religions.  If someone does something because they believe it is the right thing to do, it can cause a lot more problems then someone who actually thinks about it and decides for themselves what is right or wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 09, 2009, 09:06:48 PM
Question. Why do atheist always Have to be the ones who are called immoral as a group even though the inquisition and things like it were caused by religions? I have heard a lot less stories about large groups of atheist going on killing sprees compared to other religions.  If someone does something because they believe it is the right thing to do, it can cause a lot more problems then someone who actually thinks about it and decides for themselves what is right or wrong.

The more extreme religious people aren't doing things because it is the right thing to do, they are doing it because they think there is a reward in it. You'll find more religious people though do things because it is the right thing to do. And most atheists do things because it is the right thing to do.

One is not worse than the other just because it attracts a certain type of people.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 10, 2009, 09:34:57 AM
Doesn't the type of people something attracts say something about it
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 11:08:08 AM
Doesn't the type of people something attracts say something about it
No. Something attracting everyone only means it is more attractive.

Is a super model sleezy just because sleezy men are jerking off to her picture?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 10, 2009, 11:45:35 AM
As with any religion or ideology, the worst advertisement for Christianity is its adherents.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 12:13:35 PM
As with any religion or ideology, the worst advertisement for Christianity is its adherents.

More likely it is those that adhere to a dogma that incorrectly uses only single passages out of context to fuel their hate.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 10, 2009, 01:45:26 PM
Doesn't the type of people something attracts say something about it
No. Something attracting everyone only means it is more attractive.

Is a super model sleezy just because sleezy men are jerking off to her picture?

That  comparison doesn?t work. A supermodel is something by herself. Without other people however a religion would not exist. Second I am trying to argue against organized religion.  Once you get a organization that all believes in something and all believe every one  thing they teach there children about it and they teach there children about it. If it?s a tight enough community Each generation gets more fanatical about it. Then if there is enough people you get the Spanish inquisition
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 02:12:13 PM
Doesn't the type of people something attracts say something about it
No. Something attracting everyone only means it is more attractive.

Is a super model sleezy just because sleezy men are jerking off to her picture?

That  comparison doesn?t work. A supermodel is something by herself. Without other people however a religion would not exist. Second I am trying to argue against organized religion.  Once you get a organization that all believes in something and all believe every one  thing they teach there children about it and they teach there children about it. If it?s a tight enough community Each generation gets more fanatical about it. Then if there is enough people you get the Spanish inquisition


You were comparing atheists to theists, not just a specific organized religion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 10, 2009, 02:35:34 PM
I'm not trying to attach any religion in specific. I just know the most about Christianity so I use it for examples. I could start Bring up other religions I'm just trying to demonstrate that organized religion can breed intolerance.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 02:36:44 PM
I'm not trying to attach any religion in specific. I just know the most about Christianity so I use it for examples. I could start Bring up other religions I'm just trying to demonstrate that organized religion can breed intolerance.
Then It's lucky I'm not a part of organized Religion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 02:53:30 PM
I'm not trying to attach any religion in specific. I just know the most about Christianity so I use it for examples. I could start Bring up other religions I'm just trying to demonstrate that organized religion can breed intolerance.

Christianity did not breed intolerance, intolerance was added to christianity to fit the pre existing views of the times. I believe jesus was the one that told you to treat everyone as you wished to be treated. Hardly the basis for intolerance.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 10, 2009, 03:19:46 PM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 10, 2009, 03:41:15 PM
Which cities are you referring to in particular?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 03:43:36 PM
I'm not trying to attach any religion in specific. I just know the most about Christianity so I use it for examples. I could start Bring up other religions I'm just trying to demonstrate that organized religion can breed intolerance.

Christianity did not breed intolerance, intolerance was added to christianity to fit the pre existing views of the times. I believe jesus was the one that told you to treat everyone as you wished to be treated. Hardly the basis for intolerance.
Very true. I try to tell people that no matter what religion someone is, they can still do bad things.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 10, 2009, 05:33:06 PM
Sodom and The city that Moses people found after wandering in the desert. They marched around it and then only the prostitutes house was spared. I am sorry. I'm horrible with names.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 08:38:08 PM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 08:39:49 PM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?
Are you Raist? There is no way the Raist I know and have come to ignore, posted this.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?
Are you Raist? There is no way the Raist I know and have come to ignore, posted this.

I'm a christian. I just dislike your idiocy. Claiming something didn't happen because you can't understand it is trivializing God. Every creationist that tries to treat god like the slow kid, and claim he invented bananas to fit into our hand is blaspheming the name of god.

I'm too tired to generate a decent rant. So I'm going to cut this one short.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 10, 2009, 08:43:34 PM
Are you Raist? There is no way the Raist I know and have come to ignore, posted this.
Raist gets butthurt over this kind of stuff the same as any other Christian. You can't blame him for lashing out every once in a while.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 08:56:26 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on February 10, 2009, 08:58:48 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!

Where have you been the past I don't know when?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 10, 2009, 09:00:19 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 09:07:11 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.

If that was more in context I'd sig that.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 09:14:19 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.

If that was more in context I'd sig that.
So what do you believe? I would have believed you to be closer to Satanist to tell the truth. You were that convincing.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 09:33:30 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.

If that was more in context I'd sig that.
So what do you believe? I would have believed you to be closer to Satanist to tell the truth. You were that convincing.
Satanist? Because I support evolution? Or because I don't support idiotic views?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 10, 2009, 09:35:01 PM
I'm a Satanist.

Ooga booga!!!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
So, if you believe in satan, wouldn't you also believe in god?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 10, 2009, 09:36:55 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.

If that was more in context I'd sig that.
So what do you believe? I would have believed you to be closer to Satanist to tell the truth. You were that convincing.
Satanist? Because I support evolution? Or because I don't support idiotic views?
No, because of the way you attacked my beliefs. What do you believe exactly?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 10, 2009, 09:41:09 PM
I'm a christian.
Wholly Fuck NO! You have got to be shitting me Right!?!

Oh my whole FUCKING world is falling dow around me!!!
Yeah. An intelligent and likable Christian. It shocked me too at first.

If that was more in context I'd sig that.
So what do you believe? I would have believed you to be closer to Satanist to tell the truth. You were that convincing.
Satanist? Because I support evolution? Or because I don't support idiotic views?
No, because of the way you attacked my beliefs. What do you believe exactly?

I attacked your ignorant statements.

My beliefs were detailed in several threads. I don't care to find them. I really couldn't tell you where.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 10, 2009, 09:43:31 PM
So, if you believe in satan, wouldn't you also believe in god?
Not necessarily.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on February 11, 2009, 02:08:46 AM
True dat, LaVey satanism seems to worship personal satisfaction rather than the actual deity. If you worshipped Satan, however, you would, by extension, be almost  forced to believe in his creator. Unless some Satan worshippers just screw up the story of who made Satan, or claimed that Satan is God in a truer form or something.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: F*ck-Flat-Earth on February 11, 2009, 09:02:38 AM
Hey smart one, pot isn't addictive.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on February 11, 2009, 09:09:17 AM
Hey smart one, pot isn't addictive.

Looks like somebody graduated the D.A.R.E. program with honors.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on February 11, 2009, 09:38:45 AM
Hey smart one, pot isn't addictive.

I think you need to read up a bit on things.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 11, 2009, 10:56:06 AM
I don't know if its physically addictive, but because of the way it makes you feel you probably want to do it again afterwards.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: theonlydann on February 11, 2009, 11:02:27 AM
Mental addictions > Physical addictions.


IMO.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Robbyj on February 11, 2009, 11:06:25 AM
Mental addictions > Physical addictions.


IMO.

Such as?  What's the difference?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on February 11, 2009, 11:16:33 AM
When you are physically addicted, your brain chemistry has had time to make slight changes to adapt to drug use, which means that abstinence will have an actual physical effect, rather than mental addiction, where any physical effects of abstinence are caused by psychological trauma. Or that's how I've interpreted it, at least.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Robbyj on February 11, 2009, 11:24:32 AM
I was under the impression that all addictions stem from the same basic chemical processes.  How do you separate physical and mental if in both cases it is your brain interpreting/causing the sense of addiction?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Wendy on February 11, 2009, 11:26:17 AM
I wouldn't know. Sorry, I'm no expert on these things.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Robbyj on February 11, 2009, 11:35:45 AM
Same.  I am biologically retarded.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 11, 2009, 11:48:36 AM
If you are physically addicted to something it will affect your body if you stop using it.  If you are mentally addicted to something you can quit without any physical symptoms, but you will have mental symptoms, such as anxiety and depression.

Alcohol - the DTs
Opiates - sweating, cramps, vomiting, diarrhea, etc... 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Robbyj on February 11, 2009, 11:49:38 AM
Makes sense.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?

The old testament is part of the Christin bible You can't ignore it completly Also although christanity split from jewish Religion  it came form a part of it Jesus was a jew
 You can not use single atheist to prove your point You can however use an army of atheist that did a horrible thing to prove your point
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 11, 2009, 07:43:47 PM
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?

The old testament is part of the Christin bible You can't ignore it completly Also although christanity split from jewish Religion  it came form a part of it Jesus was a jew
 You can not use single atheist to prove your point You can however use an army of atheist that did a horrible thing to prove your point

So the actions committed by jews that they justified with religion, somehow affect my religion? Gotcha. As for jesus being a jew, I really don't think that matters, if you do, then you can go join the third reich somewhere.

An army of atheists doing a horrible thing, hmm lets see, how many countries did the soviet union attack? They're an atheist state, so anything they have done wrong is clearly on the head of atheist because they are one of your few mass representations. Atheists also helped stir the nuclear weapon build up, took advantage of millions, killed more than Hitler did (not comparing to him, just using him as a benchmark), broke up families and had forced labor in an area so cold and without food you were expected to die when you were sent there.


Yay atheism. (p.s. when you have a non represented group, never give permission for the other person to bunch them together)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 07:46:11 PM
Any source on the majority population of communist nations being atheist?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 11, 2009, 07:48:25 PM
Any source on the majority population of communist nations being atheist?
It is an atheist country. I never said the majority was atheist. He asked for an atheist army, and an army representing an atheist country would fit the description.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 07:54:36 PM
Any source on the majority population of communist nations being atheist?
It is an atheist country. I never said the majority was atheist. He asked for an atheist army, and an army representing an atheist country would fit the description.
He asked for an "army of atheists". All of the atrocities you mentioned also were not committed entirely by atheists either.

I agree that his argument is retarded, but you're handling it wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 11, 2009, 07:56:47 PM
Any source on the majority population of communist nations being atheist?
It is an atheist country. I never said the majority was atheist. He asked for an atheist army, and an army representing an atheist country would fit the description.
He asked for an "army of atheists". All of the atrocities you mentioned also were not committed entirely by atheists either.

I agree that his argument is retarded, but you're handling it wrong.

Not at all, I'm doubting there has ever been an "army" of Christians by anything other than name.

I am not handling it wrong, a country that is atheist, would be the only thing in the world capable of representing atheism. The fact that you are a lurver of communism, and atheism means this argument irritates you, but it does not make it wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 08:14:51 PM
Not at all, I'm doubting there has ever been an "army" of Christians by anything other than name.
You doubt there has been an army composed entirely of Christians?

I am not handling it wrong, a country that is atheist, would be the only thing in the world capable of representing atheism. The fact that you are a lurver of communism, and atheism means this argument irritates you, but it does not make it wrong.
Hardly. I'm no fan of the state capitalist bureaucracies and dictatorships masquerading as champions of the working classes, but you are wrong about several things:

1. The populations of these "atheist states" are not atheist.
2. The states are/were not even atheist. Marxism-Leninism and its various offshoots have developed their own very complex mythologies. The state religion is always the doctrine of the Party.
3. You are legitimizing his fallacious reasoning by sinking to his level and engaging in an argument so flawed that neither side can win. You should be attacking his initial statements rather than attempting to counter them with absurdities of your own.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 08:29:19 PM
I do not think Raist is defending organized religion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:42:40 PM
I know I am sorry I got off topic. Raist said that Christianity did not breed intolerance. I was tryig to prove that christianity like all orginized religions breed intolerance when not exposed to new ideas
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 08:46:45 PM
I know I am sorry I got off topic. Raist said that Christianity did not breed intolerance. I was tryig to prove that christianity like all orginized religions breed intolerance when not exposed to new ideas
No more than any other tradition. I do not think anyone here would dispute this (except maybe KingMan).
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:55:04 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 11, 2009, 09:05:51 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
Well, there are more people involved in organized religion than there are atheists. That might be why atheists are more often accused of immorality.

Also, most atheists do not view the world as ethically black and white as most sects dictate, so this is probably viewed as moral weakness. Rejection of absolutes makes the average theist uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 11, 2009, 09:08:41 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 09:33:15 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on February 11, 2009, 09:36:05 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.

Are you an atheist like I am? I was able to join whatever I wanted and I've never been shunned. In fact, I'm probably more accepted because I'm not a fucking lunatic who talks to himself at his bedside every night.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 09:43:27 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.
Are you an atheist like I am? I was able to join whatever I wanted and I've never been shunned. In fact, I'm probably more accepted because I'm not a fucking lunatic who talks to himself at his bedside every night.
I have mentioned I don't adhere to any specific religion three times in high school. I spent many hours of people trying to convert me to save my soul and how I would go to hell if I didn't convert. Granted that might have been because it was high school. But they talked like It was horrible to be an atheist.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: cmdshft on February 11, 2009, 09:52:27 PM
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.
Are you an atheist like I am? I was able to join whatever I wanted and I've never been shunned. In fact, I'm probably more accepted because I'm not a fucking lunatic who talks to himself at his bedside every night.
I have mentioned I don't adhere to any specific religion three times in high school. I spent many hours of people trying to convert me to save my soul and how I would go to hell if I didn't convert. Granted that might have been because it was high school. But they talked like It was horrible to be an atheist.

If only "Ask The Atheist" was around then...
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:39:00 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on February 12, 2009, 04:41:29 AM
...because there would be nothing defining us from the other animals.
Yet humans are just animals, why seperate them from other animals with definition?
I didn't say you should. How are we human then?


Last semester I took a whole class on that very question, long story short, there's no one answer. I tend to fall in the Sartre camp, though Heidegger and Rousseau have interesting ideas.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it. Yes they did something that shouldn't be considered good However they were Christians. I am not trying to say that the bible is evil and trying to make people do evil things I am saying that on the whole organized religions breed intolerance. There is very few large religions out there that haven't started a war. Second you are acting as though Judaism and Christianity are as different as Buddhism and Hinduism. Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs. And I didn't say I agree with him. I can understand why you would want to do something and admit I might do it if giving the temptation that does not mean I believe it is right. And You were acting as though I was saying that Christianity was a completely bad influence. I am saying though that It can be cause intolerance. I think the reason it isn't now is thanks to the information age.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 12, 2009, 02:43:49 PM
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:49:55 PM
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 12, 2009, 02:51:45 PM
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.
But by believing in Jesus, We seperate ourselves from Judaism. We only share the Old Testament, thats all.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:58:07 PM
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.
But by believing in Jesus, We seperate ourselves from Judaism. We only share the Old Testament, thats all.
But you can not ignore the old testament is part of your religion or your connection with the Jew of the old testament
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 12, 2009, 02:58:43 PM
We seperate ourselves from Judaism.
Separate but equal, eh?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 13, 2009, 04:11:36 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Guessed on February 13, 2009, 06:25:30 PM
We seperate ourselves from Judaism.
Separate but equal, eh?

Like Quebec.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 10:41:41 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.
In that case I don't see how you can argue that orginized religeons don't breed intolerance.
Second The first crusade Happened before the Spanish inquisition started They weren?t really killing that many people for not being Catholic. Infact most of the solders were volunteers which is not what you would expect if they were just catholic to save there own life.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 13, 2009, 10:44:37 PM
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.
In that case I don't see how you can argue that orginized religeons don't breed intolerance.
Second The first crusade Happened before the Spanish inquisition started They weren?t really killing that many people for not being Catholic. Infact most of the solders were volunteers which is not what you would expect if they were just catholic to save there own life.

Indoctrination is something we should be proud of. Though you were forced to be christian from birth because of monarchies. No religion doesn't breed intolerance, people do. If there are no religions to drive discrimination, there will be race, family names, wealth. Intolerance is a built in human concept. Do not blame religion for something that is ingrained within all of us.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 10:50:08 PM
I am blaming Orginized Religeon. Not plain Religeon.  Yes intolerance is built into human nature however organized religion is somewhere were Intolerance of a specific group grows much more easily.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:14:37 PM
I am blaming Orginized Religeon. Not plain Religeon.  Yes intolerance is built into human nature however organized religion is somewhere were Intolerance of a specific group grows much more easily.

Something being an excuse does not make it the cause.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 14, 2009, 09:05:22 AM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 04:27:09 PM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.
No but it gives it motivation
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 14, 2009, 07:10:18 PM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.
No but it gives it motivation
Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 14, 2009, 11:06:51 PM
That has nothing to do with them being "organized".
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 14, 2009, 11:08:01 PM
That has nothing to do with them being "organized".

Yes it does, they are now organized, and have realized that niggers will inflate their flock. Also hating niggers turns people off.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 14, 2009, 11:09:58 PM
That is due to social progress. If niggers were still considered niggers, I'm sure the Mormon Church would be obliged to tow the line.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 15, 2009, 12:17:47 AM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.
No but it gives it motivation
Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.
That is more thanks to the information age. Before that religion was Used as an excuse to be raciest. Now however orginazations are looked down on for being raciest so if it is big and organized religion it needs to not be raciest in order to get a large following or more power.
Also look at gay marriage The main Reason is to protect the sanctity of Marriage. Look up sanctity in the dictionary. The entire argument to discriminate is based on religion.
   Lastly I was referring to Religious discrimination. That is the form that allows a religeon to gain more followers the easiest
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Benocrates on February 15, 2009, 10:53:29 AM
haha, don't the Mormons believe the natives are a legitimately evil race?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 15, 2009, 02:01:26 PM
They believe Natives were Jews who disobeyed God and so got their skin turned red as punishment.

I'm not sure if they're considered inherently evil or not. They're probably in the same situation as the blacks; the only way to get to Heaven is as a slave.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on February 15, 2009, 02:28:43 PM
They believe Natives were Jews who disobeyed God and so got their skin turned red as punishment.

I'm not sure if they're considered inherently evil or not. They're probably in the same situation as the blacks; the only way to get to Heaven is as a slave.

Do Mormons really believe this?? I don't believe that.  I know a Mormon, and he doesn't hate blacks etc.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 15, 2009, 02:32:31 PM
The Church Elders had a "Revelation" (conveniently around the same time segregation was abolished) that declared blacks equal to whites and allowed to enter the church. Up until the seventies, it was an officially racist organization.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 15, 2009, 05:44:19 PM
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.
Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.
No but it gives it motivation
Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.
That is more thanks to the information age. Before that religion was Used as an excuse to be raciest. Now however orginazations are looked down on for being raciest so if it is big and organized religion it needs to not be raciest in order to get a large following or more power.
Also look at gay marriage The main Reason is to protect the sanctity of Marriage. Look up sanctity in the dictionary. The entire argument to discriminate is based on religion.
   Lastly I was referring to Religious discrimination. That is the form that allows a religeon to gain more followers the easiest


An excuse is not a cause.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Soul Eater on February 15, 2009, 09:05:48 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 15, 2009, 09:22:31 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Soul Eater on February 16, 2009, 01:39:09 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Of course.  Some people would be just as homophobic without any religious motivation.  But religion makes them successful in their discrimination.  Thanks to the Bible, they actually have an argument.  Religion may not always create discrimination, but it does allow it.  And also, do you really think people would be as openly anti-gay without Christianity?  Maybe, but the number of people would be significantly less.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 16, 2009, 01:42:52 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Of course.  Some people would be just as homophobic without any religious motivation.  But religion makes them successful in their discrimination.  Thanks to the Bible, they actually have an argument.  Religion may not always create discrimination, but it does allow it.  And also, do you really think people would be as openly anti-gay without Christianity?  Maybe, but the number of people would be significantly less.
Screw the queers
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Soul Eater on February 16, 2009, 02:00:16 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Of course.  Some people would be just as homophobic without any religious motivation.  But religion makes them successful in their discrimination.  Thanks to the Bible, they actually have an argument.  Religion may not always create discrimination, but it does allow it.  And also, do you really think people would be as openly anti-gay without Christianity?  Maybe, but the number of people would be significantly less.
Screw the queers
Its nice to see there are mature people on here.  Do you actually have a point or are you just here to prove to me that you're an idiot?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 16, 2009, 02:08:14 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Of course.  Some people would be just as homophobic without any religious motivation.  But religion makes them successful in their discrimination.  Thanks to the Bible, they actually have an argument.  Religion may not always create discrimination, but it does allow it.  And also, do you really think people would be as openly anti-gay without Christianity?  Maybe, but the number of people would be significantly less.
Screw the queers
Its nice to see there are mature people on here.  Do you actually have a point or are you just here to prove to me that you're an idiot?
I I'm mature, and I was just kidding there. I don't agree with Homosexuality but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have one as a friend.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 16, 2009, 02:12:00 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
Of course.  Some people would be just as homophobic without any religious motivation.  But religion makes them successful in their discrimination.  Thanks to the Bible, they actually have an argument.  Religion may not always create discrimination, but it does allow it.  And also, do you really think people would be as openly anti-gay without Christianity?  Maybe, but the number of people would be significantly less.
Screw the queers
Its nice to see there are mature people on here.  Do you actually have a point or are you just here to prove to me that you're an idiot?
If it's taken you that long to figure it out, then you sir are the idiot.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Soul Eater on February 16, 2009, 02:17:08 PM
Ah, touche. ;D
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 16, 2009, 02:49:31 PM
He likes proving he's an idiot because it's easier than proving God. All he needs to do now is link the two, and he's got some reverse-strawman that proves God. Hmm, how to link idiots and religion?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 16, 2009, 02:52:19 PM
He likes proving he's an idiot because it's easier than proving God. All he needs to do now is link the two, and he's got some reverse-strawman that proves God. Hmm, how to link idiots and religion?
Your right that would be extremely difficult. However, Linking Atheism and idiots is extremely easy.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 16, 2009, 02:59:50 PM
Linking Atheism and idiots is extremely easy.
Then do it, dickweed.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 16, 2009, 03:24:17 PM
inb4 "ATHEISTSRIDIOTSLOL"
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Mr. Ireland on February 16, 2009, 06:35:40 PM
Then do it, dickweed.

Well you get those ones who think they can prove God doesn't exist, but they're countered by the theists who think they can prove God does exists.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 16, 2009, 07:44:04 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
But it also causes people who regularly wouldn't be against it to hate it because they think god said so.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Numaro on February 16, 2009, 10:59:22 PM
I am an atheist and just have a short story.

A few yeears ago, my friend was scuba diving in the Pacific Ocean. Something went wrong with his equipment. He lost consciousness and technically "died". Luckily, paramedics were able to revive him using a medicine. Later while talking with him I asked what it was like to "die".he told me it was like nothing; like when you are asleep and not dreaming... Just...nothingness.

The after life?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 16, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
But it also causes people who regularly wouldn't be against it to hate it because they think god said so.

Yes because I hate homosexuals.... no wait, I don't. My christian father raised me to treat everyone for the way they act not for the choices they make that have no bearing on my life.

Give it up. Non religious people are just as racist as religious ones. It just so happens that at the moment racism is a thing of the lower class, and the lower class is more likely to be religious, which makes sense, I'd pray more too if I didn't have food.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Soul Eater on February 17, 2009, 12:29:42 AM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
But it also causes people who regularly wouldn't be against it to hate it because they think god said so.

Yes because I hate homosexuals.... no wait, I don't. My christian father raised me to treat everyone for the way they act not for the choices they make that have no bearing on my life.

Give it up. Non religious people are just as racist as religious ones. It just so happens that at the moment racism is a thing of the lower class, and the lower class is more likely to be religious, which makes sense, I'd pray more too if I didn't have food.
Obviously you don't need to be religious to be racist, that's not even what I'm talking about.  My whole argument is that religion breeds intolerance.  Does religion make you intolerant?  No.  Does it give you reasons to be?  Yes.  If you are a Christian and don't discriminate, then great I'm happy for you.  But there are people who discriminate against gays simply because they believe homosexuals are going against the word of God.  That doesn't mean that where there is religion there is always intolerance, and vice versa.  But one can definitely lead to the other. 
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 17, 2009, 01:12:45 AM
Look at gay marriage, though.  Christianity isn't used as an excuse to discriminate against gays, (most of the time, at least) it's the main cause of it.

Ah yes. That's why homosexuality was detested even before christianity. I'm sorry, but the hate for it is simply homophobia that piggybacked itself into the bible through the authors. The underlying root is still homophobia.
But it also causes people who regularly wouldn't be against it to hate it because they think god said so.

Yes because I hate homosexuals.... no wait, I don't. My christian father raised me to treat everyone for the way they act not for the choices they make that have no bearing on my life.

Give it up. Non religious people are just as racist as religious ones. It just so happens that at the moment racism is a thing of the lower class, and the lower class is more likely to be religious, which makes sense, I'd pray more too if I didn't have food.
Obviously you don't need to be religious to be racist, that's not even what I'm talking about.  My whole argument is that religion breeds intolerance.  Does religion make you intolerant?  No.  Does it give you reasons to be?  Yes.  If you are a Christian and don't discriminate, then great I'm happy for you.  But there are people who discriminate against gays simply because they believe homosexuals are going against the word of God.  That doesn't mean that where there is religion there is always intolerance, and vice versa.  But one can definitely lead to the other. 

So jesus saying "treat others as you wish to be treated" so fucking breeds intolerance. It doesn't breed anything, at most it attracts it.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Daz555 on February 17, 2009, 02:55:27 AM
A few yeears ago, my friend was scuba diving in the Pacific Ocean. Something went wrong with his equipment. He lost consciousness and technically "died".
He stopped breathing and lost conciousness. He did not die, technically or otherwise.

Glad to hear he survived his accident.  :)
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 17, 2009, 03:10:44 AM
A few yeears ago, my friend was scuba diving in the Pacific Ocean. Something went wrong with his equipment. He lost consciousness and technically "died".
He stopped breathing and lost conciousness. He did not die, technically or otherwise.

Glad to hear he survived his accident.  :)

I think he means his heart stopped and he was legally dead. Not that going unconscious made him die.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 04:38:59 AM
Organised religion breeds intolerence, usually because it defines itself against other organised religions. The actual 'creed' itself usually has nothing to do with it. People are using 'christianity' and 'the church' interchangably in this thread, as though they mean and represent the same thing- they don't.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 06:53:07 AM
I am an atheist and just have a short story.

A few yeears ago, my friend was scuba diving in the Pacific Ocean. Something went wrong with his equipment. He lost consciousness and technically "died". Luckily, paramedics were able to revive him using a medicine. Later while talking with him I asked what it was like to "die".he told me it was like nothing; like when you are asleep and not dreaming... Just...nothingness.

The after life?
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: LordTalon69 on February 17, 2009, 07:59:56 AM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 17, 2009, 08:20:02 AM
Organised religion breeds intolerence, usually because it defines itself against other organised religions. The actual 'creed' itself usually has nothing to do with it. People are using 'christianity' and 'the church' interchangably in this thread, as though they mean and represent the same thing- they don't.
exactly! the organization is the part that Breeds intolerance not necessarily the creed
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 08:57:53 AM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
I'm not part of organized religion.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 17, 2009, 09:18:44 AM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
I'm not part of organized religion.
What religion are you then?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 10:02:55 AM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
I'm not part of organized religion.
What religion are you then?
I'm a Christian.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 17, 2009, 11:30:10 AM
Where can you pray to God?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 11:32:46 AM
Where can you pray to God?
Anywhere I wish. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 17, 2009, 11:35:13 AM
Because you're a Protestant.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 12:22:44 PM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
I'm not part of organized religion.
What religion are you then?
I'm a Christian.

Which doctrinal beliefs do you subscribe to? Because there are significant differences between some of the major denominations.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 12:31:49 PM
Many people who have died and been revived have dexcribed an after life. Your friend doesn't prove anything.

Those experiences are merely hulicinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain. They didn't completely die. Your brain still functions when your heart stops for a bit, if not everyone who had a heart attack would have brain damage.

The famous one of which you speak always makes me laugh. What was it 30 minutes in hell? I bet organized religion was ecstatic to get a hold of that story.
I'm not part of organized religion.
What religion are you then?
I'm a Christian.

Which doctrinal beliefs do you subscribe to? Because there are significant differences between some of the major denominations.
I would consider myself Non denominational.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 17, 2009, 12:35:56 PM
you're a Protestant.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 12:41:30 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 17, 2009, 12:51:03 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
He's conservative american christian.

Think baptist almost.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 01:04:31 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Proleg on February 17, 2009, 01:05:29 PM
So you're protestant.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 01:07:42 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 17, 2009, 01:08:57 PM
you're a Protestant.

Why does nobody listen?!
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 17, 2009, 01:09:57 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?

But that could put him in the orthodox church, they reject the "infallible pope." But they continued on with the traditional church.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 01:11:16 PM
you're a Protestant.

Why does nobody listen?!

Look, this isn't a question of curiosity on my part. Only what he says (or doesn't say) is of value when discussing his personal beliefs and their basis.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: General Douchebag on February 17, 2009, 01:21:33 PM
Where can you pray to God?


Where can you pray to God?
Anywhere I wish. Why do you ask?

Because you're a Protestant.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 01:48:39 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.

So having rejected the authority of the catholic church and the pope, where do you go to get the definitive word on your faith? Because the content of the bible was, of course, decided by the catholic church. That is a matter of record.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.

So having rejected the authority of the catholic church and the pope, where do you go to get the definitive word on your faith? Because the content of the bible was, of course, decided by the catholic church. That is a matter of record.
Where?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 17, 2009, 01:54:16 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Lord Wilmore on February 17, 2009, 02:00:41 PM
Where?

Look up the debate about apocrypha for example. Look up the differences in terms of translation. The assembly of the 'New Testament' took place over 400 years, and was approved by the early popes. It's a matter of historical record, and if you're unaware of things like this, I'm going to leave it at that, because you clealry have a lot of research to do.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Raist on February 17, 2009, 02:44:26 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.

So having rejected the authority of the catholic church and the pope, where do you go to get the definitive word on your faith? Because the content of the bible was, of course, decided by the catholic church. That is a matter of record.

So the question is, was there always a pope as there \is today in the catholic church.
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: KingMan on February 17, 2009, 03:28:02 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.

So having rejected the authority of the catholic church and the pope, where do you go to get the definitive word on your faith? Because the content of the bible was, of course, decided by the catholic church. That is a matter of record.

So the question is, was there always a pope as there \is today in the catholic church.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: optimisticcynic on February 17, 2009, 03:48:03 PM
I think the pope be considered infallible was the biggest change
Title: Re: Athiest World
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 18, 2009, 05:14:04 PM
I would consider myself Non denominational.

Really. So do you believe in transubtantiation, or not? How about confession, what exactly does that mean to you? Apocrypha? Purgatory? Exactly where do you stand on all these issues?
Religion is something between me and god, and whoever else I decide to bring into the picture. So I only go to church to learn more about Gods word. I am anti-Catholic because of the way "the church" controls its members. It's just wrong.

So do you reject the authority of the Pope?
Of course. They never had authority in the first place.

So having rejected the authority of the catholic church and the pope, where do you go to get the definitive word on your faith? Because the content of the bible was, of course, decided by the catholic church. That is a matter of record.
Where?

The Council of Nicaea.  There are lots of places on the internet you can read about it.