The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:00:01 PM

Title: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:00:01 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 08, 2008, 06:12:59 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:16:32 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.

Unknown? Oh...right...ok.  ;D

Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

Besides, electromagnetic force and "gravitation" are very different phenomena, so why did you even mention that you believed in gravitation as if it were part of your explanation?

Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 08, 2008, 06:17:39 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.

Unknown? Oh...right...ok.  ;D

Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

It was just an idea.  I don't know how you can so quickly jump to that conclusion anyway.  The celestial bodies are different in composition from anything on earth.

Quote
Besides, electromagnetic force and "gravitation" are very different phenomena, so why did you even mention that you believed in gravitation as if it were part of your explanation?



But you just said that magnets can cause gravitation.  ???
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:25:25 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.

Unknown? Oh...right...ok.  ;D

Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

It was just an idea.  I don't know how you can so quickly jump to that conclusion anyway.  The celestial bodies are different in composition from anything on earth.

Quote
Besides, electromagnetic force and "gravitation" are very different phenomena, so why did you even mention that you believed in gravitation as if it were part of your explanation?



But you just said that magnets can cause gravitation.  ???
No, I said that magnets pull and repel.
Gravitation is the phenomena in which objects are attracted to each other because of their mass, not because of their electromagnetic properties.

And, I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm just seeing if the FES had come up with an explanation for this huge flaw in their theory. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with the "unknown" response.  :D
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 08, 2008, 06:29:00 PM
Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

lol
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:30:10 PM
Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

lol
I know. Absurd, isn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 08, 2008, 06:30:40 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.

Unknown? Oh...right...ok.  ;D

Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

It was just an idea.  I don't know how you can so quickly jump to that conclusion anyway.  The celestial bodies are different in composition from anything on earth.

Quote
Besides, electromagnetic force and "gravitation" are very different phenomena, so why did you even mention that you believed in gravitation as if it were part of your explanation?



But you just said that magnets can cause gravitation.  ???
No, I said that magnets pull and repel.
Gravitation is the phenomena in which objects are attracted to each other because of their mass, not because of their electromagnetic properties.

Well, there's the problem.  I don't believe the gravitational attraction between the heavenly bodies is necessarily caused by mass.  As I said, I believe it's electromagnetic in nature.

Quote
And, I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm just seeing if the FES had come up with an explanation for this huge flaw in their theory. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with the "unknown" response.  :D

As you wish.  I felt I answered it pretty well.  As zetetics, we don't like to make definite conclusions about things we can't observe directly.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 08, 2008, 06:31:53 PM
Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

lol
I know. Absurd, isn't it?  ;)

Rats.  You mean GoodPoint doesn't now what he's talking about?  :(
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 08, 2008, 06:31:57 PM
Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

lol
I know. Absurd, isn't it?  ;)

Absurd that you're talking as though you know all about magnets, when you clearly don't.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 06:36:50 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars are all simply following their own geodesics, revolving around a common barycenter above the north pole.  To my best recollection the reason why is unknown; perhaps it has something to do with the earth's magnetic field.  I do believe their movement is electromagnetic in nature.

Unknown? Oh...right...ok.  ;D

Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.

It was just an idea.  I don't know how you can so quickly jump to that conclusion anyway.  The celestial bodies are different in composition from anything on earth.

Quote
Besides, electromagnetic force and "gravitation" are very different phenomena, so why did you even mention that you believed in gravitation as if it were part of your explanation?



But you just said that magnets can cause gravitation.  ???
No, I said that magnets pull and repel.
Gravitation is the phenomena in which objects are attracted to each other because of their mass, not because of their electromagnetic properties.

Well, there's the problem.  I don't believe the gravitational attraction between the heavenly bodies is necessarily caused by mass.  As I said, I believe it's electromagnetic in nature.

Quote
And, I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm just seeing if the FES had come up with an explanation for this huge flaw in their theory. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with the "unknown" response.  :D

As you wish.  I felt I answered it pretty well.  As zetetics, we don't like to make definite conclusions about things we can't observe directly.
I can understand that. That is why we even made a space program in the first place- to observe things directly. There are very intelligent people out there who have come up with conclusions because they have been out there, in space.

It is you who have made false conclusions because you have not observed reality directly, not the other way around.

Wait....I forgot there was a conspiracy.  ;) :o
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 08, 2008, 06:52:30 PM
Well, to be fair, our belief that the earth is flat is based on direct observation.  We only believe there's a conspiracy because we know the earth is flat.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: GoodPoint on September 08, 2008, 07:14:17 PM
Well, to be fair, our belief that the earth is flat is based on direct observation.  We only believe there's a conspiracy because we know the earth is flat.

True. Observation is definitely the first step to understanding a topic.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 08, 2008, 07:20:59 PM
True. Observation is definitely the first step to understanding a topic.

Maybe you should observe magnets a bit more, then.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: semperround on September 09, 2008, 06:35:55 PM
magnets are fun! ;D
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Sexual Harassment Panda on September 09, 2008, 07:21:27 PM
Magnets either pull or repel. They don't cause objects to move in circular shapes parallel to themselves.
hold if you had a magnet suspended on a string and held it above the magnetic north pole wouldnt it spin around
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Xander on September 09, 2008, 09:52:10 PM
How does FE get a magnetic field again?  RE gets one by molten iron spinning in a molten core (of a imperfect sphere). 

On the other hand most of what has been said above about magnets isn't very correct... for example a magnetic field can move things parallel to themselves (a magnet will make iron shavings line up parallel with the magnetic flux.  As long as the sun and all of the planets were made of iron the FE theory could work I guess.

Statement of the Day = Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation. (i.e. I don't believe in eating cows, but I do like a medium-rare steak once in a while!)

Perhaps you don't really believe in gravitation either... as gravitation is the effect of gravity between objects.  You mean interaction of some kind like electromagnetic or some other undefined force.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 09, 2008, 09:54:14 PM
Statement of the Day = Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation. (i.e. I don't believe in eating cows, but I do like a medium-rare steak once in a while!)

No, they are completely different things.  Gravitation exists, while gravity is simply a construct of our imaginations.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Xander on September 09, 2008, 10:05:14 PM
Statement of the Day = Well, we don't believe in gravity, but we do believe in gravitation. (i.e. I don't believe in eating cows, but I do like a medium-rare steak once in a while!)

No, they are completely different things.  Gravitation exists, while gravity is simply a construct of our imaginations.

gravitation
Noun
1. the force of attraction that bodies exert on one another as a result of their mass
2. the process or result of this interaction

gravity is the root word of gravitation... if FEers have started coming up with new definitions of words to fit their theories then they should let everyone know or something...
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 09, 2008, 10:08:41 PM
Xander, you don't know what you're talking about, but that's okay because few who come here really do at first.  Before you go on I suggest you read at least the first page of this stickied thread (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19384.0) so you might have a better understanding of the subject.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Xander on September 09, 2008, 10:18:54 PM
I did actually read some of that already but I disagree with some of those definition.  If you assume gravity is not a real force then attraction is the correct term, not gravitation.   However, if we can agree to disagree I will drop the point as I get what the original poster was trying to get at.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Snaaaaake on September 10, 2008, 02:30:06 PM
Well, to be fair, our belief that the earth is flat is based on direct observation.  We only believe there's a conspiracy because we know the earth is flat.

Granted, the Earth is round. I honestly haven't seen any "direct observation" proving the Earth to be flat. Unless you're going to pull out the biased "look out your window" thing again.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 10, 2008, 03:51:33 PM
Granted, the Earth is round. I honestly haven't seen any "direct observation" proving the Earth to be flat. Unless you're going to pull out the biased "look out your window" thing again.

Lol @ Roundoo calling FET "biased".
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: veyron1001 on September 12, 2008, 06:53:56 PM
I'm back!

I thought of something while I was gone. What causes the sun to move in a circle above the center of the Earth? The only time that something naturally moves in a circle is if there is something in the middle to pull it towards the midpoint of the circle. (like gravity). But gravity doesn't exist.

What are the FES's thoughts about this? And what about the moon's movement? There is nothing about this obvious flaw in the FAQ, so I am asking!  :)

The Earth is far too small to have the sun and the other planets to be gravitationally attracted towards it. The Earth is slowly losing the moon from its weak gravitational force. The Sun generates enough force to pull the 8 planets towards it. If the planets did not maintain a constant speed around the Sun the planet would have been engulfed by the Sun.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 12, 2008, 07:19:04 PM
The Earth is far too small to have the sun and the other planets to be gravitationally attracted towards it.

Small objects don't exhibit gravitation? ???
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: veyron1001 on September 12, 2008, 07:42:49 PM
The Earth is far too small to have the sun and the other planets to be gravitationally attracted towards it.

Small objects don't exhibit gravitation? ???

I never said that
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 12, 2008, 07:51:10 PM
The Earth is far too small to have the sun and the other planets to be gravitationally attracted towards it.

Small objects don't exhibit gravitation? ???

I never said that

Then explain how the Earth does not attract the Sun and other planets.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: The Hanged Man on September 13, 2008, 09:52:42 AM
The force of gravity is equal to Gm1m2/R^2 where G is the gravitational constant, m1 is the mass of the one body, m2 is the mass of the second, and R is the distance between the two centers. The force of gravity diminishes in strength proportional to the square of the distance between the two bodies. The Earth is just too small and too far away from our neighbouring planets, mars and venus, to gravitate towards them in any significant way. The moon, however, is close enough.

The acceleration of a body when a force acts upon it is equal to F/m where m is the mass of the body and F is the force acting upon it. The Sun and the Earth gravitate towards each other; however, the sun is so massive that the only apparent acceleration is that of the earth.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 13, 2008, 10:11:59 AM
The force of gravity is equal to Gm1m2/R^2 where G is the gravitational constant, m1 is the mass of the one body, m2 is the mass of the second, and R is the distance between the two centers. The force of gravity diminishes in strength proportional to the square of the distance between the two bodies. The Earth is just too small and too far away from our neighbouring planets, mars and venus, to gravitate towards them in any significant way. The moon, however, is close enough.

The acceleration of a body when a force acts upon it is equal to F/m where m is the mass of the body and F is the force acting upon it. The Sun and the Earth gravitate towards each other; however, the sun is so massive that the only apparent acceleration is that of the earth.

I understand how gravitation works, and better than you do, apparently, for there is no force involved. He didn't say that the Earth didn't attract the Sun and other planets in a significant way, he simply stated that it did not attract them, which is untrue.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: The Hanged Man on September 13, 2008, 10:35:23 AM
The force of gravity is equal to Gm1m2/R^2 where G is the gravitational constant, m1 is the mass of the one body, m2 is the mass of the second, and R is the distance between the two centers. The force of gravity diminishes in strength proportional to the square of the distance between the two bodies. The Earth is just too small and too far away from our neighbouring planets, mars and venus, to gravitate towards them in any significant way. The moon, however, is close enough.

The acceleration of a body when a force acts upon it is equal to F/m where m is the mass of the body and F is the force acting upon it. The Sun and the Earth gravitate towards each other; however, the sun is so massive that the only apparent acceleration is that of the earth.

I understand how gravitation works, and better than you do, apparently, for there is no force involved. He didn't say that the Earth didn't attract the Sun and other planets in a significant way, he simply stated that it did not attract them, which is untrue.

There is no force involved?
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Parsifal on September 13, 2008, 10:39:11 AM
There is no force involved?

Correct.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: The Hanged Man on September 13, 2008, 12:31:24 PM
Gravity is a force. If it isn't a force, it isn't gravity.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Jack on September 13, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
Gravity is a force.
Right, a fictitious one.

If it isn't a force, it isn't gravity.
Which is why there is gravitation.
Title: Re: What makes the sun go around?
Post by: Dead Kangaroo on September 14, 2008, 11:07:22 PM
Jet packs.