The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: Synopsis on September 02, 2008, 07:33:15 PM
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Now, when I hear theory's such as these that goes against the known science I try to take an unbiased view and ask people to explain contradictions that could exist.
When I found this thread,(someone linked it on another forums laughing at it) I read through it and thought about.
A few things crossed my mind.
1. Airlines and Curvature/How deep would this conspiracy run?
My uncle works as a captain/pilot for an airline. As he flies you can see how the earth curves and the clouds circle around the curvature. He also calculates the curvature of the earth. When you fly from florida to japan, on a map a strait line appears to lead you over the ocean. But because of the curvature of the earth it's actually easier to fly over alaska and follow the land mass. (An easy way to simulate this is to take a string place one end at florida on a globe, then lay it as tight as you can against the globe and run it strait to japan.)
So with all he knows, and calculations he uses, does that mean the goverment has gotten to all airline pilots around the world.
What about private flyers? Hell they gave them to undereducated foreigners in florida.
2. Explanation of tilting world creating the waves.
Now I could have payed more attention in my physics class but you explanation for waves is that the flat world tilts back and forth creating sloshing.... why does this only effect water? When I am standing infront of the ocean I don't get thrown back and forth, neither does the sand right infront of the water.
3. The improbability of such a massive secret being kept.
Ok, knowing as many people as I do who use calculations that require the world to be round, does this mean that the government has gotten to them as well?
How come on their dying bed has someone not came out and said. "THE WORLD IS FLAT!" There would be way too many people to keep quiet. You would hear more stories in tabloids about the world being flat than you would about alien sightings.
This is just the first of many questions. Any explanation would be welcome.
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Waves are created by wind..... Are you high? What do waves have to do with the shape of the earth?
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Now, when I hear theory's such as these that goes against the known science I try to take an unbiased view and ask people to explain contradictions that could exist.
When I found this thread,(someone linked it on another forums laughing at it) I read through it and thought about.
A few things crossed my mind.
1. Airlines and Curvature/How deep would this conspiracy run?
My uncle works as a captain/pilot for an airline. As he flies you can see how the earth curves and the clouds circle around the curvature. He also calculates the curvature of the earth. When you fly from florida to japan, on a map a strait line appears to lead you over the ocean. But because of the curvature of the earth it's actually easier to fly over alaska and follow the land mass. (An easy way to simulate this is to take a string place one end at florida on a globe, then lay it as tight as you can against the globe and run it strait to japan.)
So with all he knows, and calculations he uses, does that mean the goverment has gotten to all airline pilots around the world.
What about private flyers? Hell they gave them to undereducated foreigners in florida.
2. Explanation of tilting world creating the waves.
Now I could have payed more attention in my physics class but you explanation for waves is that the flat world tilts back and forth creating sloshing.... why does this only effect water? When I am standing infront of the ocean I don't get thrown back and forth, neither does the sand right infront of the water.
3. The improbability of such a massive secret being kept.
Ok, knowing as many people as I do who use calculations that require the world to be round, does this mean that the government has gotten to them as well?
How come on their dying bed has someone not came out and said. "THE WORLD IS FLAT!" There would be way too many people to keep quiet. You would hear more stories in tabloids about the world being flat than you would about alien sightings.
This is just the first of many questions. Any explanation would be welcome.
money - and lots of it.
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the tides are caused by tilting of the earth, but that doesnt explain how there are two tides on opposite sides of earth.
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the tides are caused by tilting of the earth, but that doesnt explain how there are two tides on opposite sides of earth.
um, 1 to the left and when it tilts again, the other to the right...
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both at the same time means it would have to tilt two ways at the same time
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both at the same time means it would have to tilt two ways at the same time
take a flat disc - try and make it tilt both ways at the same time...
another win for FE!
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you can if you bend it. surely that is a win for RE?
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you can if you bend it. surely that is a win for RE?
flat earth doesnt bend.
definitely a win for FE.
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if FE cant bend, how can it tilt in two vectors
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both at the same time means it would have to tilt two ways at the same time
take a flat disc - try and make it tilt both ways at the same time...
another win for FE!
Dont you mean RE? If FE cannot move in a way which would explain the tides, then that is a win for RE. Also, what use would someone on their deathbed have for money?
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1. This conspiracy is only known by NASA and the other space agencies of the world, not the governments themselves. And not all the employees of NASA, just the upper echelon. I'm guessing in the early 60's they discovered that space flight is impossible, because without an atmosphere to help with lift, the thrust required to stay aloft and get to the moon was unatainable. Now they could admit this and put themselves out of work, or they could generate a charade that would allow them to continue to syphon billions of tax payers dollars from the government cophers. Also, they promised their dead president they'd walk on the moon before the end of the decade, and they certainly weren't going to let the impossible stand in their way.
Your uncle is using the information he has been given, it's just wrong. And you cannot see the curve of the earth from a plane.
2. I'm going to make the assumption you mean tides, not waves. And yes I don't think the tilting earth can be the cause of the tides. Particularly if the Earth is an infinite plane bisecting the Universe. The best explanation I've heard is that the UA which is propelling the Earth upwards is rotating underneath us, and that is causing the tides.
3. Again, there are not that many people that need to be in on the conspiracy.
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You can. Not normally on jumbo jets, but planes like concorde could. Also, It takes more than space agencys.
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Your uncle flies in a concorde?
Who else needs to be involved?
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you can if you bend it. surely that is a win for RE?
flat earth doesnt bend.
definitely a win for FE.
Start rocking it back and forth. See what happens. Perhaps water can bend....
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Synopsis's uncle probably doesn't fly concorde, but thousands of people have been passengers.
Anyone who has been at high altitude, the Ice wall guards, the people who make the balloons, the the people who supply the guards, EVERY LONG-HAUL PlANE NAVIGATOR IN THE WORLD, most observatory staffers, tecnicians who fake photos, etc etc.
By the way, can you answer what use do people on their deathbed have for money? Especially ones with no living relatives.
And thanks, I did mean tides. Apologies.
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As he flies you can see how the earth curves and the clouds circle around the curvature.
Another Criss Angel believer has graced us with his presence.
He also calculates the curvature of the earth.
I can calculate lots of things...what's your point?
When you fly from florida to japan, on a map a strait line appears to lead you over the ocean. But because of the curvature of the earth it's actually easier to fly over alaska and follow the land mass. (An easy way to simulate this is to take a string place one end at florida on a globe, then lay it as tight as you can against the globe and run it strait to japan.)
Because of the curvature of the Earth? Apparently not:
http://i37.tinypic.com/npjbiu.jpg
So with all he knows, and calculations he uses, does that mean the goverment has gotten to all airline pilots around the world.
No.
What about private flyers? Hell they gave them to undereducated foreigners in florida.
No.
2. Explanation of tilting world creating the waves.
Generally unbelieved.
When I am standing infront of the ocean I don't get thrown back and forth, neither does the sand right infront of the water.
Well, if the whole Earth is going back and forth, it doesn't matter if you stand in front of the water or not.
3. The improbability of such a massive secret being kept.
Improbability != impossible
Ok, knowing as many people as I do who use calculations that require the world to be round, does this mean that the government has gotten to them as well?
No. And what things require these calculations?
How come on their dying bed has someone not came out and said. "THE WORLD IS FLAT!" There would be way too many people to keep quiet. You would hear more stories in tabloids about the world being flat than you would about alien sightings.
There could be many reasons for the silence.
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When you fly from florida to japan, on a map a strait line appears to lead you over the ocean. But because of the curvature of the earth it's actually easier to fly over alaska and follow the land mass. (An easy way to simulate this is to take a string place one end at florida on a globe, then lay it as tight as you can against the globe and run it strait to japan.)
Because of the curvature of the Earth? Apparently not:
http://i37.tinypic.com/npjbiu.jpg
Is this your official flat earth map?
I am just wondering so I can start showing you everything that is wrong with it.
This is very common for FE, they will use their "evidence" to prove 1 point but it does not support any other points.
Let me know when you have an official map.
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That map looks like we are all sliding off the the bottom. AAHHhhhhh!!1!!
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Is this your official flat earth map?
There is no official map.
I am just wondering so I can start showing you everything that is wrong with it.
Given you have no facts, I'd love to hear all your assumptions and speculations about it.
This is very common for FE, they will use their "evidence" to prove 1 point but it does not support any other points.
The picture is a concept illustrating what it would look like. Exact measurements and scales are obviously not worked out.
It is common, however, for RE to discount explanations because they'll exploit any little thing they can.
Let me know when you have an official map.
Sure.
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Can someone please answer my post? "there are many reasons" none of which you have given...why dont you have an official map?
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Can someone please answer my post? "there are many reasons" none of which you have given...why dont you have an official map?
Because no one, RE or FE, has the time, money or inclination to go and map the entire earth. The closest you can get is a distorted RE map: http://i37.tinypic.com/npjbiu.jpg
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Can someone please answer my post?
The one about deathbeds? Can you rephrase your question please?
"there are many reasons" none of which you have given
Ok; they are devoted to their cause, and thus will not give the secret away; they are murdered before they can contact anyone; they are held in such a way where communication with the outside world is not possible. Basically two main reasons, either they don't want to or don't care; or they are silenced by members of the conspiracy.
why dont you have an official map?
No one has traversed the Earth to take measurements for the flat Earth cause. Thus, nothing can be to scale without a lot of work and trust of RE sources.
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If no one else knows, Tom Bishop is currently working on a Flat Earth map, and a Flat Earth Wikipedia. Email him to supply him with some information on the Flat Earth if you have some.
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If no one else knows, Tom Bishop is currently working on a Flat Earth map, and a Flat Earth Wikipedia. Email him to supply him with some information on the Flat Earth if you have some.
Is he allowed to handle sharp objects like pencils?
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Sure: point one: thousands of people flew on concorde and saw the earth was round. point 2: more people need to be in on it than the space agencies (see earlier post). the goverment isnt in on it according to you, why would they silence people?
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Sure: point one: thousands of people flew on concorde and saw the earth was round. point 2: more people need to be in on it than the space agencies (see earlier post). the goverment isnt in on it according to you, why would they silence people?
DER! Because it means that we can claim the earth is flat without proof!
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Sure: point one: thousands of people flew on concorde and saw the earth was round.
They saw a curve. That doesn't prove anything.
Are you a Criss Angel believer?
more people need to be in on it than the space agencies (see earlier post). the goverment isnt in on it according to you, why would they silence people?
The government doesn't know.
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so why would they silence people? they saw a curve that was not getting closer.
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so why would they silence people?
They don't know, therefore they wouldn't silence anyone.
they saw a curve that was not getting closer.
...ok, so you do believe in Criss Angel?
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this may sound dumb but here goes...who or what is chriss angel?
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this may sound dumb but here goes...who or what is chriss angel?
Criss Angel is an illusionist/magician. He has his own show in North America, and he has levitated. Under your logic, you'd believe that his illusion is indeed fact, and he is actually levitating because it is what you see. For someone with your username, I find that incredibly ironic and funny.
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Is this your official flat earth map?
There is no official map.
I am just wondering so I can start showing you everything that is wrong with it.
Given you have no facts, I'd love to hear all your assumptions and speculations about it.
This is very common for FE, they will use their "evidence" to prove 1 point but it does not support any other points.
The picture is a concept illustrating what it would look like. Exact measurements and scales are obviously not worked out.
It is common, however, for RE to discount explanations because they'll exploit any little thing they can.
Let me know when you have an official map.
Sure.
Hey... I am a RE I have facts you must be confusing me with a FE.
Would actual documented travel times between different countries in relation with their distance count as facts?
Please don't throw Jet streams in there...
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22288.0
Here is an old post of mine proving you whole "jet stream" theory was garbage.
And how can you just admit that the map is flawed and then use it as evidence that the earth is flat... I don't get you guys.
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Hey... I am a RE I have facts you must be confusing me with a FE.
No, I was talking about your lack of facts about what's wrong with the representation of the map.
Would actual documented travel times between different countries in relation with their distance count as facts?
They count as facts, but not to what we're discussing.
And how can you just admit that the map is flawed and then use it as evidence that the earth is flat... I don't get you guys.
I never used it as evidence that the Earth is flat.
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just a quick respond:
I have talked to Wubbo Ockels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubbo_Ockels) in real life, a dutch astronaut... it was in australia at the solar challange, he was really drunk and had no reason to lie about the fact that the earth is a sphere...
not that this add much info to the discussion but I sometimes get the idea that you guys focus too much on NASA and the USA... why would a healthy dutch scientist lie about it for a start?
He must be in the payroll of NASA. Just proves the conspiracy!
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He must be in the payroll of NASA. Just proves the conspiracy!
And he is quite a professional too, since he doesn't crush at the influence of alcohol
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Hey... I am a RE I have facts you must be confusing me with a FE.
No, I was talking about your lack of facts about what's wrong with the representation of the map.
Would actual documented travel times between different countries in relation with their distance count as facts?
They count as facts, but not to what we're discussing.
And how can you just admit that the map is flawed and then use it as evidence that the earth is flat... I don't get you guys.
I never used it as evidence that the Earth is flat.
Sure they would count... By showing you documentation of travel times between different countries it would show that your map is wrong. If your map is wrong then it's not a valid explanation for his questions.
Also if you go back to his questions he was mentioning that someone he knew flew from Florida to Japan and that it was not possible or whatever on flat earth. You then showed a flight path on a "flat earth" map. So yes you were using it as evidence to flat earth.
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Sure they would count... By showing you documentation of travel times between different countries it would show that your map is wrong. If your map is wrong then it's not a valid explanation for his questions.
We've already established that the map is not to scale.
Also if you go back to his questions he was mentioning that someone he knew flew from Florida to Japan and that it was not possible or whatever on flat earth. You then showed a flight path on a "flat earth" map. So yes you were using it as evidence to flat earth.
Barring specific measurements and orientation, the rough concept shown in the image illustrates exactly what he claimed couldn't be done on a flat Earth.
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Sure they would count... By showing you documentation of travel times between different countries it would show that your map is wrong. If your map is wrong then it's not a valid explanation for his questions.
We've already established that the map is not to scale.
Also if you go back to his questions he was mentioning that someone he knew flew from Florida to Japan and that it was not possible or whatever on flat earth. You then showed a flight path on a "flat earth" map. So yes you were using it as evidence to flat earth.
Barring specific measurements and orientation, the rough concept shown in the image illustrates exactly what he claimed couldn't be done on a flat Earth.
OK, please make your mind up... are you using the map to prove your point (earth is flat) or not. Now you are saying you are, earlier you were saying you weren't.
I am saying if you and I both agree that the map is flawed then it should not be used as a tool to prove a point.
From what I see it looks like it is ok for you to show the map to prove that on flat earth one could fly from FL to Japan.
As soon as I bring up any credibility issues with the map you are quick to say the map isn't finished or whatever you are trying to tell me... so I can't make any counter arguments. That's BS, the map is crap you know it I know it... whatever point you tried to make with the flawed map is also flawed.
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OK, please make your mind up... are you using the map to prove your point (earth is flat) or not. Now you are saying you are, earlier you were saying you weren't.
It's completely different. Showcasing the concept and how the thought process of the other person is wrong, is completely different than saying the map is 100% accurate, and that the Earth is flat. It doesn't need to be 100% accurate in order to do what I did.
As soon as I bring up any credibility issues with the map you are quick to say the map isn't finished or whatever you are trying to tell me... so I can't make any counter arguments. That's BS, the map is crap you know it I know it... whatever point you tried to make with the flawed map is also flawed.
You would argue with scale and statistical errors. The concept doesn't change with numbers, so that's why I can use it.
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Its a lot harder to fake the earth being flat than one guy levitating.
You still haven't answered.
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So what's wrong with all the early maps that the explorers made? Where they in on the conspiracy before there was a conspiracy? The earth was mapped many times in the past with out the aid of satellites and without trying to prove whether or not it was round or flat. Why does FET not use one of these maps?
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Its a lot harder to fake the earth being flat than one guy levitating.
Um...point?
You still haven't answered.
Answered what? You keep saying this every post but don't bother putting what you want answered. I'm not going to go back rereading conversations because you can't type a little bit extra in your post.
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This is from a differant thread but its better than my original post.
I'll start again.
A: People keep insisting the goverment isn't in on this, yet they are silencing people. Explain.
B: Far more people would need to know. Ice wall guards (and suppliers, and maintenance, etc) the teams of people required to fake video well, people who secretly install fish-eye lenses, anyone who has been in space, people who made the stratellites (and put them up in the sky, and give them maintenance (by the way: how do the stratellites propel themselves so fast and for so long?), and refuel them (which no one has ever seen) and design cunning ways of fooling lasers, and red shift theorem, long-haul plane navigators, etc etc. How could NASA do that alone, and for just 10 billion pounds? We need ten times more than that just to build a windfarm!
C:Why don't the NASA execututives live in complete luxury? They have an income in the billions (according to you) so why are they not spending it? If its just so no-one suspects them, whats the point doing it in the first place?
I will probably edit this post as I think of more.
D: Thousands of people flew in concorde and saw a curve that was not getting closer.
Point: It is, in my opinion, too hard.
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Too hard for an organization full of vastly intelligent scientists?
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Sure they would count... By showing you documentation of travel times between different countries it would show that your map is wrong. If your map is wrong then it's not a valid explanation for his questions.
We've already established that the map is not to scale.
Also if you go back to his questions he was mentioning that someone he knew flew from Florida to Japan and that it was not possible or whatever on flat earth. You then showed a flight path on a "flat earth" map. So yes you were using it as evidence to flat earth.
Barring specific measurements and orientation, the rough concept shown in the image illustrates exactly what he claimed couldn't be done on a flat Earth.
Here you are using a flat earth theory (your map) to prove a point...
What I am saying is the map is WRONG. If you using it as evidence or as a possibility for your one of your ideas it needs to remain consistent with other ideas... it doesn't.
If the position of the outer rim is wrong on the FE map, that means there is also something wrong with the inner rim of the FE map. Your travel route goes through the inner rim which is wrong... which makes you WRONG.
Your wrong it's that simple... no matter what you say or how you word your next post you are wrong. The point you made with your wrong map is not valid.
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Not to mention, the entire northern ice sheet is gone. That map isn't right by any standards. Maybe in a 100 years if your undue the distortion and put it back the way it's supposed to be, shaped like a globe..... ::)
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A large part of my post argues that. Please, ANSWER.
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Here you are using a flat earth theory (your map) to prove a point...
I'm using the concept to prove a point. Reading my posts would help you tremendously.
What I am saying is the map is WRONG. If you using it as evidence or as a possibility for your one of your ideas it needs to remain consistent with other ideas... it doesn't.
I've already told you the map isn't to scale. You saying it is "wrong" is for one, incorrect, and two, something we aren't debating.
If the position of the outer rim is wrong on the FE map, that means there is also something wrong with the inner rim of the FE map.
Terrible logic, and just plain incorrect.
Your wrong it's that simple... no matter what you say or how you word your next post you are wrong. The point you made with your wrong map is not valid.
Ignorance is bliss.
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Here you are using a flat earth theory (your map) to prove a point...
I'm using the concept to prove a point. Reading my posts would help you tremendously.
What I am saying is the map is WRONG. If you using it as evidence or as a possibility for your one of your ideas it needs to remain consistent with other ideas... it doesn't.
I've already told you the map isn't to scale. You saying it is "wrong" is for one, incorrect, and two, something we aren't debating.
If the position of the outer rim is wrong on the FE map, that means there is also something wrong with the inner rim of the FE map.
Terrible logic, and just plain incorrect.
Your wrong it's that simple... no matter what you say or how you word your next post you are wrong. The point you made with your wrong map is not valid.
Ignorance is bliss.
Your still wrong.
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Your still wrong.
oh, the ironing.
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Your still wrong.
Ignorance is bliss. And learn2grammar.
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Your still wrong.
Ignorance is bliss. And learn2grammar.
My bad grammar doesn't make you right.
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I never said it did. Your ignorance makes me appear wrong.
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you can if you bend it. surely that is a win for RE?
flat earth doesnt bend.
definitely a win for FE.
Start rocking it back and forth. See what happens. Perhaps water can bend....
Waves. Not simultaneous peaks and troughs on opposite sides of the flat thing.
FE got pwned pretty hard. Hypocrit, FETftw.
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FE got pwned pretty hard. Hypocrit, FETftw.
what are you talking 'bout?
you shouldnt mumble when you talk.
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I will not explain. I will allow you nutcases to endure the same treatment as you treat us normal people. Reread the posts relevant to the quote and you will understand. (Which is like saying 'Read the FAQ', when you fools say it.)
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I never said it did. Your ignorance makes me appear wrong.
No you being wrong makes you wrong, which makes you appear wrong because you’re wrong.
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I will not explain. I will allow you nutcases to endure the same treatment as you treat us normal people. Reread the posts relevant to the quote and you will understand. (Which is like saying 'Read the FAQ', when you fools say it.)
so, in other words, you have no idea what youre talking about either.
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I will not explain. I will allow you nutcases to endure the same treatment as you treat us normal people. Reread the posts relevant to the quote and you will understand. (Which is like saying 'Read the FAQ', when you fools say it.)
so, in other words, you have no idea what youre talking about either.
You admit you have no idea what you're talking about. That's fine with me. I'm just too lazy to repeat myself to your insignificant, incapable minds.
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yet you do - repeatedly.
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This is actually pretty similar to a post I did a bit ago.
I understand the point that other fellow was trying to make, namely that a theoretical model can be put forth to establish his point. That it is not EXACT does not invalidate his point. The idea is that it is an approximation, and will be until someone actually goes out, from the Flat Earth Society, and makes a map of it.
That said, if you look at the map, and consider aerial navigation for this issue like we originally were, what we have here is a point of distance traveled over time traveled, basic velocity. The point that was being originally made, is that if you travel point A to point B on that map, you will have traveled a set distance, and in a set amount of time. If you complete the circuit around the circumference of that circle, you will reach your original destination.
Let us assume that these two points are very close to the outer rim of the map, say South Africa to Argentina. Travel from those two points, going around the circumference of the circle. Perhaps add Australia to the list to make it a full circle with three established points. Now let us say that you travel a bit north, or in this case, towards the theoretical center of the Flat Earth map, a location that can be agreed upon even if the map is an approximation. Chart out three new points along this circle, going around the North Pole. Let us say from Brazil to Japan to Hawaii and back to Brazil. These are both well traveled and well documented distances and times traveled for circumnavigation. For the Earth to be flat, the distance of the circumference of the second flight route would need to be less than the distance of the first. It is in fact well documented, on a near daily basis, to be greater.
Would this not show that the Earth's circumference is expanding as you go from the outermost parts of the map to the Equator, not receding as the flat map shows?
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haha this discussion is great. Spacemanjones you are a legend ;)
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A legend of being an ignorant fool who is insusceptible to reason and logic.
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A legend of being an ignorant fool who is insusceptible to reason and logic.
logic?? reason?? I always thought these two concepts where somewhat absent from this forum.
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A legend of being an ignorant fool who is insusceptible to reason and logic.
logic?? reason?? I always thought these two concepts where somewhat absent from this forum.
Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things.
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A legend of being an ignorant fool who is insusceptible to reason and logic.
Well reason, logic and facts show how long it takes to travel from point A to point B in south America. Which is clearly wrong on your map.
Your unlogical map is not consistent with an observable fact (travel times). So that means your map is wrong. You drew a flight path to show people you could fly from Florida to Japan on a flat earth map.
The map is wrong, that means the flat Earth map positions of Florida and Japan are wrong which makes you...
-=WRONG=-
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haha
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Can you also answer my earlier posts (page 3)
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Point. Period. Earth is Round
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I made another thread about this earlier today. No one has posted yet though.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23575.0
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A legend of being an ignorant fool who is insusceptible to reason and logic.
Well reason, logic and facts show how long it takes to travel from point A to point B in south America. Which is clearly wrong on your map.
Your unlogical map is not consistent with an observable fact (travel times). So that means your map is wrong. You drew a flight path to show people you could fly from Florida to Japan on a flat earth map.
The map is wrong, that means the flat Earth map positions of Florida and Japan are wrong which makes you...
-=WRONG=-
The maps used for RE are also wrong. I never knew that Europe was about equal in land mass to south america, that is until I looked at the amazingly accurate RE map.
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Well reason, logic and facts show how long it takes to travel from point A to point B in south America. Which is clearly wrong on your map.
Your unlogical map is not consistent with an observable fact (travel times). So that means your map is wrong. You drew a flight path to show people you could fly from Florida to Japan on a flat earth map.
The map is wrong, that means the flat Earth map positions of Florida and Japan are wrong which makes you...
-=WRONG=-
Reading must be difficult for you. The map has always been stated as a concept, and NOT TO SCALE. How you have over 200 posts on this forum and haven't been able to read simple sentences a child could understand is beyond me. Good luck in life.