The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 09:24:00 AM

Title: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 09:24:00 AM
http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html (http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html)

100 million dollars per seat. Wow. Ok I know that most if not all of us don't have that kind of money but before we know it an average rich person will be able to fly into space for a vacation. And I can easily bet my life that my grandchildren will go on a space vacation, only it will be much cheaper by then. If the conspiracy existed, then they wouldn't even bother making these things to send us on space vacations. And also the government wouldn't just kill every rich person who goes into space. I'm sure that all the young people on this forum will either go on a space vacation or know someone who does in their lifetime.

I can now say, with great satisfaction, that the Earth is going to finally be proven round soon enough.

Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 24, 2008, 09:29:56 AM
I doubt your grandchildren will go on a space vacation, because to have grandchildren you need to have children first, and to do that you need to have sex and I think we all know thats never gonna happen.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 09:31:28 AM
I doubt your grandchildren will go on a space vacation, because to have grandchildren you need to have children first, and to do that you need to have sex and I think we all know thats gonna happen.


Thanks?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 24, 2008, 09:35:28 AM
You're welcome.

But reading that article, I reckon whats happen is that the company is being duped by the Russian space agency and in all likelihood they'll be led on for a while then told that it can't happen and the company will go bankrupt after it has to repay the people who paid to be passengers.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 09:45:04 AM
What I "reckon" is that humans will go on space vacations and the Earth will be proven round, and that this forum will die.

You didn't read the quote, did you?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 24, 2008, 09:46:29 AM
I read the whole thing...

The best thing to do is wait and see.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: markjo on June 24, 2008, 09:52:42 AM
http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html (http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html)

100 million dollars per seat. Wow. Ok I know that most if not all of us don't have that kind of money but before we know it an average rich person will be able to fly into space for a vacation. And I can easily bet my life that my grandchildren will go on a space vacation, only it will be much cheaper by then. If the conspiracy existed, then they wouldn't even bother making these things to send us on space vacations. And also the government wouldn't just kill every rich person who goes into space. I'm sure that all the young people on this forum will either go on a space vacation or know someone who does in their lifetime.

I can now say, with great satisfaction, that the Earth is going to finally be proven round soon enough.

Bah!  There have already been 5 space tourists courtesy of the Russian space program.  Old news.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 10:10:19 AM
and to do that you need to have sex and I think we all know thats never gonna happen.


I lol'd  ;D
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 10:14:38 AM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 10:23:32 AM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 10:30:35 AM
I don't know, I'm not a conspiracy member.  I'm just saying this does not prove RE.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 10:36:14 AM
I don't know, I'm not a conspiracy member.  I'm just saying this does not prove RE.
I'm saying it's impossible to recreate certain aspects of spaceflight.  Just think about it for a second; if it was possible, then what's the point of doing experiments in space if you can recreate all the conditions on the ground?  The reason is simple; extended microgravity is impossible on earth.  Saying "I have no explanation" is not a valid reason to dismiss evidence.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 10:40:03 AM
In the theme of the title, but perhaps not the thread itself, here's some damning evidence of earth's roundness that I caught quite by accident while getting ready to photograph discovery's launch from across the indian river.  The distance to the other side of the river was nearly 5 miles.  I used an 8" Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope and digital SLR camera.  Tell me FE'ers, why do the trees across the river appear to rise straight out of the river?  Where's the shore?  Where's the ground?  I didn't actually mean to capture a picture of the river and for the rest of my shots I rotated the camera so that the image was level.  I rotated the image here so that the river would be level.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/roundearth1.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 10:55:08 AM
Great picture.

Oh well I'm just satisfied that I'll live to see the Earth be proven round.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 24, 2008, 11:04:05 AM
Quote
Tell me FE'ers, why do the trees across the river appear to rise straight out of the river?

I've seen trees growing very close to the level of the water, if not in the water itself.

(http://i29.tinypic.com/5vro1d.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 11:05:08 AM
Admit it Tom, you're just pissed that you won't live to see the Earth be proven round.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 24, 2008, 11:07:57 AM
Admit it Tom, you're just pissed that you won't live to see the Earth be proven round.

Wait, are you threatening to assasinate Tom?!  :o
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 11:14:02 AM
Quote
Tell me FE'ers, why do the trees across the river appear to rise straight out of the river?

I've seen trees growing very close to the level of the water, if not in the water itself.

(http://i29.tinypic.com/5vro1d.jpg)
Nice try tom, but aerial photographs of the other side of the river clearly show the shoreline prior to the trees, so they can't be cypress trees in water (incidently, the shrubs you showed in your picture are not trees, they're watery bushes - it would have been more reasonable to speculate the presence of submerged cypress trees, but neither of these possibilities hold up to inspection).
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/shoreline.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 11:22:13 AM
http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html (http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html)

100 million dollars per seat. Wow. Ok I know that most if not all of us don't have that kind of money but before we know it an average rich person will be able to fly into space for a vacation. And I can easily bet my life that my grandchildren will go on a space vacation, only it will be much cheaper by then. If the conspiracy existed, then they wouldn't even bother making these things to send us on space vacations. And also the government wouldn't just kill every rich person who goes into space. I'm sure that all the young people on this forum will either go on a space vacation or know someone who does in their lifetime.

I can now say, with great satisfaction, that the Earth is going to finally be proven round soon enough.



 They only say that to convince people that the Earth is round. They are probably lying.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 11:23:46 AM
No, I'm not trying to assasinate Tom. He's just too old to see it when it happens.  ;D

And for fluist: I'll be the one laughing when the first vacation happens.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 24, 2008, 11:26:05 AM
No, I'm not trying to assasinate Tom. He's just too old to see it when it happens.  ;D

And for fluist: I'll be the one laughing when the first vacation happens.

How do you know how old he is? Did he tell you? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Gunnar on June 24, 2008, 11:42:39 AM
http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html (http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html)

100 million dollars per seat. Wow. Ok I know that most if not all of us don't have that kind of money but before we know it an average rich person will be able to fly into space for a vacation. And I can easily bet my life that my grandchildren will go on a space vacation, only it will be much cheaper by then. If the conspiracy existed, then they wouldn't even bother making these things to send us on space vacations. And also the government wouldn't just kill every rich person who goes into space. I'm sure that all the young people on this forum will either go on a space vacation or know someone who does in their lifetime.

I can now say, with great satisfaction, that the Earth is going to finally be proven round soon enough.



Good post!  Of course you realize, as I do, that the Earth has already been proven round to any knowledgeable person who is both reasonable and intellectually honest.  I predict, though, that no matter how popular and affordable space tourism eventually becomes and no matter how many people actually experience orbital flight, there will always be people who stubbornly and foolishly refuse to abandon the conviction that the Earth is flat, despite any amount of evidence to the contrary, no matter how incontrovertible!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 11:43:13 AM
No, I'm not trying to assasinate Tom. He's just too old to see it when it happens.  ;D

And for fluist: I'll be the one laughing when the first vacation happens.

 It's never going to happen. The amount of fuel it would take to send regular people into space would be enormous. Not to mention it would cost a heck of a lot. I think that within the next 50 years, NASA will probably create a virtual reality system that would be so realistic that people would actually think they were in space.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 11:46:54 AM
No, I'm not trying to assasinate Tom. He's just too old to see it when it happens.  ;D

And for fluist: I'll be the one laughing when the first vacation happens.

 It's never going to happen. The amount of fuel it would take to send regular people into space would be enormous. Not to mention it would cost a heck of a lot. I think that within the next 50 years, NASA will probably create a virtual reality system that would be so realistic that people would actually think they were in space.
How exactly is this "virtual reality system" going to create sustained weightlessness?  And by the way, space tourism has already been happening for a long time now.  Dennis Tito was the first, but certainly not the last to shell out the big bucks for a ticket to the international space station.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 11:50:50 AM
No, I'm not trying to assasinate Tom. He's just too old to see it when it happens.  ;D

And for fluist: I'll be the one laughing when the first vacation happens.

 It's never going to happen. The amount of fuel it would take to send regular people into space would be enormous. Not to mention it would cost a heck of a lot. I think that within the next 50 years, NASA will probably create a virtual reality system that would be so realistic that people would actually think they were in space.
How exactly is this "virtual reality system" going to create sustained weightlessness?  And by the way, space tourism has already been happening for a long time now.  Dennis Tito was the first, but certainly not the last to shell out the big bucks for a ticket to the international space station.

 Scientists will find a way to create weightlessness. And the people who say that they went into space are lying.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 11:56:22 AM

 Scientists will find a way to create weightlessness.
That's an incredible claim. Where's the incredible proof?
Quote
And the people who say that they went into space are lying.
Nice claim, got proof to back up the accusation?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Pointland32 on June 24, 2008, 12:00:17 PM
And the people who say that they went into space are lying.

The people who say that they didn't go into space are lying.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 12:44:59 PM
http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html (http://news.cnet.com/Space-the-new-summer-vacation/2100-11397_3-6072973.html)

100 million dollars per seat. Wow. Ok I know that most if not all of us don't have that kind of money but before we know it an average rich person will be able to fly into space for a vacation. And I can easily bet my life that my grandchildren will go on a space vacation, only it will be much cheaper by then. If the conspiracy existed, then they wouldn't even bother making these things to send us on space vacations. And also the government wouldn't just kill every rich person who goes into space. I'm sure that all the young people on this forum will either go on a space vacation or know someone who does in their lifetime.

I can now say, with great satisfaction, that the Earth is going to finally be proven round soon enough.



Good post!  Of course you realize, as I do, that the Earth has already been proven round to any knowledgeable person who is both reasonable and intellectually honest.  I predict, though, that no matter how popular and affordable space tourism eventually becomes and no matter how many people actually experience orbital flight, there will always be people who stubbornly and foolishly refuse to abandon the conviction that the Earth is flat, despite any amount of evidence to the contrary, no matter how incontrovertible!

Couldn't have said it better. If anyone still believes the Earth is flat after space vacations they'll all be patients at the local mental hospital.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 24, 2008, 12:49:57 PM
Well, if it ever actually happens, I guess you might have an argument.  ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 01:12:35 PM
Shameless bump for Tom.  I smell the death of FE fast approaching.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/roundearth1.jpg)

Quote
Tell me FE'ers, why do the trees across the river appear to rise straight out of the river?

I've seen trees growing very close to the level of the water, if not in the water itself.

(http://i29.tinypic.com/5vro1d.jpg)
Nice try tom, but aerial photographs of the other side of the river clearly show the shoreline prior to the trees, so they can't be cypress trees in water (incidently, the shrubs you showed in your picture are not trees, they're watery bushes - it would have been more reasonable to speculate the presence of submerged cypress trees, but neither of these possibilities hold up to inspection).
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/shoreline.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 01:17:28 PM
Well, if it ever actually happens, I guess you might have an argument.  ::)

You mean WHEN it actually happens. Man I CANNOT wait till the second trip!! I'm so glad the FE is coming to a near close. Every day is a day closer to the day I get to laugh my head off at FEers.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 01:21:48 PM
Well, if it ever actually happens, I guess you might have an argument.  ::)

You mean WHEN it actually happens. Man I CANNOT wait till the second trip!! I'm so glad the FE is coming to a near close. Every day is a day closer to the day I get to laugh my head off at FEers.

 There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 01:26:55 PM
Dennis Tito.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible..

Riiiiiight. Forget all the video, astronauts, studies, shuttle launch witnesses, astronauts killed, satellites, satellite imagery, moon landing, mars exploration, hubble telescope, GPS, international space station, satellite radio, satellite tv, future space vacations, discovery of galaxies not viewable from Earth, European Space Agency, Spitzer Space telescope, etc.

I mean, its impossible  ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Androkles on June 24, 2008, 01:52:35 PM
Shameless bump for Tom.  I smell the death of FE fast approaching.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/roundearth1.jpg)

Quote
Tell me FE'ers, why do the trees across the river appear to rise straight out of the river?

I've seen trees growing very close to the level of the water, if not in the water itself.

(http://i29.tinypic.com/5vro1d.jpg)
Nice try tom, but aerial photographs of the other side of the river clearly show the shoreline prior to the trees, so they can't be cypress trees in water (incidently, the shrubs you showed in your picture are not trees, they're watery bushes - it would have been more reasonable to speculate the presence of submerged cypress trees, but neither of these possibilities hold up to inspection).
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/shoreline.jpg)

Good one, thanks! :)

(SURELY YOUR PICTURES MUST HAVE BEEN FAKED BY THE CONSPIRACYS SUPERPHOTOEDITINGSOFTWAREZ!)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 01:54:20 PM
Wow, the FE really will be over before we know it. And The Creep: You'll probably get the answer "it's a conspiracy" lol.  ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 01:56:11 PM
Wow, the FE really will be over before we know it. And The Creep: You'll probably get the answer "it's a conspiracy" lol.  ::)

Yup, thats pretty much what im expecting.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: attackhoe2 on June 24, 2008, 01:59:44 PM
Well, if it ever actually happens, I guess you might have an argument.  ::)

You mean WHEN it actually happens. Man I CANNOT wait till the second trip!! I'm so glad the FE is coming to a near close. Every day is a day closer to the day I get to laugh my head off at FEers.

 There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible.

Prove it.


How is it impossible?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
More links, yay!

First person to take a space vacation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito)

Space vacations:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/01/57164 (http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/01/57164) (this one's good)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism)

EDIT: 5 AVERAGE RICH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ON A SPACE VACATION SO FAR, THE MOST RECENT ONE YEAR AGO.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Shaydawg on June 24, 2008, 02:01:22 PM
There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible..

Riiiiiight. Forget all the video, astronauts, studies, shuttle launch witnesses, astronauts killed, satellites, satellite imagery, moon landing, mars exploration, hubble telescope, GPS, international space station, satellite radio, satellite tv, future space vacations, discovery of galaxies not viewable from Earth, European Space Agency, Spitzer Space telescope, etc.

I mean, its impossible  ::)

As much as I agree with you these FErs are just going to use "it's a conspiracy" and it never really happened to say you are wrong. Then they will say the BoP lies on you to prove these things did happen.

It is an endless fucking circle with them because they dont know how to use logic or reason. Trust me.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 02:02:58 PM
There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible..

Riiiiiight. Forget all the video, astronauts, studies, shuttle launch witnesses, astronauts killed, satellites, satellite imagery, moon landing, mars exploration, hubble telescope, GPS, international space station, satellite radio, satellite tv, future space vacations, discovery of galaxies not viewable from Earth, European Space Agency, Spitzer Space telescope, etc.

I mean, its impossible  ::)

Videos: Fake.

Astronauts: Basically government agents.

Studies: Fake or biased.

Shuttle Launch Wittnesses/Astronauts Killed: Every once in a while, NASA sends a space shuttle high enough to be invisible, have it hover for a few days, and have it land/crash.

Satellites: NASA lauches them high enough until they are invisible, then has them crash into the middle of the ocean.

Satellite Images: Fake.

Moon Landing: Fake.

Mars Exploration: Fake.

Hubble Telescope: Doesn't exist.

GPS: Received from towers.

ISS: Doesn't exist.

Satellite Radio: Received from towers.

Satellite T.V.: Received from towers.

Space Vacations: Can't happen.

Galaxies not viewable from Earth: Don't exist

European Space Agency: Part of the conspiracy.

Spitzer Space Telescope: Doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 02:04:53 PM
As much as I agree with you these FErs are just going to use "it's a conspiracy" and it never really happened to say you are wrong. Then they will say the BoP lies on you to prove these things did happen.

It is an endless fucking circle with them because they dont know how to use logic or reason. Trust me.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: attackhoe2 on June 24, 2008, 02:05:31 PM
There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible..

Riiiiiight. Forget all the video, astronauts, studies, shuttle launch witnesses, astronauts killed, satellites, satellite imagery, moon landing, mars exploration, hubble telescope, GPS, international space station, satellite radio, satellite tv, future space vacations, discovery of galaxies not viewable from Earth, European Space Agency, Spitzer Space telescope, etc.

I mean, its impossible  ::)

Videos: Fake.

Astronauts: Basically government agents.

Studies: Fake or biased.

Shuttle Launch Wittnesses/Astronauts Killed: Every once in a while, NASA sends a space shuttle high enough to be invisible, have it hover for a few days, and have it land/crash.

Satellites: NASA lauches them high enough until they are invisible, then has them crash into the middle of the ocean.

Satellite Images: Fake.

Moon Landing: Fake.

Mars Exploration: Fake.

Hubble Telescope: Doesn't exist.

GPS: Received from towers.

ISS: Doesn't exist.

Satellite Radio: Received from towers.

Satellite T.V.: Received from towers.

Space Vacations: Can't happen.

Galaxies not viewable from Earth: Don't exist

European Space Agency: Part of the conspiracy.

Spitzer Space Telescope: Doesn't exist.

Thats all fine, but do you have any PROOF of the governments consipring and these astronauts to be government agents?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Shaydawg on June 24, 2008, 02:06:27 PM
As much as I agree with you these FErs are just going to use "it's a conspiracy" and it never really happened to say you are wrong. Then they will say the BoP lies on you to prove these things did happen.

It is an endless fucking circle with them because they dont know how to use logic or reason. Trust me.

lol

It is eerie how intuative I am
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Shaydawg on June 24, 2008, 02:10:05 PM
There hasn't been a trip to space yet because it's impossible..

Riiiiiight. Forget all the video, astronauts, studies, shuttle launch witnesses, astronauts killed, satellites, satellite imagery, moon landing, mars exploration, hubble telescope, GPS, international space station, satellite radio, satellite tv, future space vacations, discovery of galaxies not viewable from Earth, European Space Agency, Spitzer Space telescope, etc.

I mean, its impossible  ::)

Videos: Fake.

Astronauts: Basically government agents.

Studies: Fake or biased.

Shuttle Launch Wittnesses/Astronauts Killed: Every once in a while, NASA sends a space shuttle high enough to be invisible, have it hover for a few days, and have it land/crash.

Satellites: NASA lauches them high enough until they are invisible, then has them crash into the middle of the ocean.

Satellite Images: Fake.

Moon Landing: Fake.

Mars Exploration: Fake.

Hubble Telescope: Doesn't exist.

GPS: Received from towers.

ISS: Doesn't exist.

Satellite Radio: Received from towers.

Satellite T.V.: Received from towers.

Space Vacations: Can't happen.

Galaxies not viewable from Earth: Don't exist

European Space Agency: Part of the conspiracy.

Spitzer Space Telescope: Doesn't exist.

Thats all fine, but do you have any PROOF of the governments consipring and these astronauts to be government agents?

They dont have any proof. Trust me, I have aked over and over and over again. I started at thread on which is probably on page 2 of this forum about it. Check it out. It is full of useless unfounded claims by FErs.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
It wouldn't be much of a conspiracy if we had proof.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Shaydawg on June 24, 2008, 02:39:44 PM
It wouldn't be much of a conspiracy if we had proof.

It wouldnt be logical or reasonable without proof either but that has never stopped a FEr.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
Absolutely not.  There's no proof JFK's assassination was a conspiracy and there's no proof that 9/11 was a conspiracy.  That doesn't rule either of them out.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 02:59:01 PM
Absolutely not.  There's no proof JFK's assassination was a conspiracy and there's no proof that 9/11 was a conspiracy.  That doesn't rule either of them out.
I thought for both of those events the conspiracy theorists contended that there was proof...  In fact, last I checked, both sides agree that the issue should live or die based on the absence or presence of proof.  That said, I agree, there's no proof of either and no reason to believe there is a conspiracy.  The fact that something hasn't been completely ruled out is not reason enough for it to be a reasonable assumption.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 03:00:53 PM
There's no proof the conspiracies don't exist.  Likewise, there's no proof that this one doesn't either.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: charlie on June 24, 2008, 03:02:12 PM
There's no proof the conspiracies don't exist.  Likewise, there's no proof that this one doesn't either.

thats waik.

Before we begin with that, proof that the earth is not round
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 24, 2008, 03:03:28 PM
There's no proof the conspiracies don't exist.  Likewise, there's no proof that this one doesn't either.
Ah right.  No proof that NASA's telling the truth about spaceflight whatsoever.  Right.  ::)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/issicon3.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/endeavourlabels.gif)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 03:16:43 PM
They could easily be faked.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: charlie on June 24, 2008, 03:18:28 PM
They could easily be faked.

You can say that with everything...

but I have seen a sattelite with a telescope a few years ago, it was real
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 24, 2008, 03:20:02 PM
Well, if it ever actually happens, I guess you might have an argument.  ::)

You mean WHEN it actually happens. Man I CANNOT wait till the second trip!! I'm so glad the FE is coming to a near close. Every day is a day closer to the day I get to laugh my head off at FEers.

Fine.  If... when... however you semantically want to put it... it happens, you might actually have an argument.  ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Oscar Wilde on June 24, 2008, 03:26:59 PM
I'm just satisfied that I'll live to see the Earth be proven round.
Why not get into yoga or learn to play the piano or something?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Shaydawg on June 24, 2008, 04:10:45 PM
There's no proof the conspiracies don't exist.  Likewise, there's no proof that this one doesn't either.

Umm yes there is plenty of fucking proof the theories dont exist. They have even been listed in this very thread.

It just takes a very dense and unreasonable person to not accept the evidence.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 04:27:50 PM
This thread is a HUGE win for RE!!

The FEers don't have anything to back them up at all.  ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Parsifal on June 24, 2008, 04:34:47 PM
This thread is a HUGE win for RE!!

The FEers don't have anything to back them up at all.  ::)

teh intnerets r srs buisnses d00dz
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: the_flutist on June 24, 2008, 04:38:23 PM
This thread is a HUGE win for RE!!

The FEers don't have anything to back them up at all.  ::)

 No it isn't. Those two companies are probably decades away from space flight. And even if they say they can, it's most likely just a big scam.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 04:58:47 PM
This thread is infested with RE wins. I will live to see affordable space vacations. 5 average rich people have been on a space vacation SO FAR. The Earth is round, and I'll get the final laugh.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 24, 2008, 05:52:45 PM
Okay, if you ever go on a space flight, then you can tell us all about it.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 24, 2008, 06:09:36 PM
Okay, if you ever go on a space flight, then you can tell us all about it.

don't forget to take pics lol.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 06:10:12 PM
I don't know if I'll live for it to be affordable for me, but it WILL be affordable for my grandchildren if not great grandchildren.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 24, 2008, 06:11:34 PM
I don't know if I'll live for it to be affordable for me, but it WILL be affordable for my grandchildren if not great grandchildren.

hopefully by then there will be no need to prove that the Earth is round..
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 24, 2008, 06:12:20 PM
I don't know if I'll live for it to be affordable for me, but it WILL be affordable for my grandchildren if not great grandchildren.

It won't happen because sustained space travel is impossible.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 06:14:11 PM
Yes it is. There are 3 more trips planned in the upcoming years. Stop living in 1770 Tom, welcome to the future: 2008.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 24, 2008, 06:15:18 PM
No it isn't. Those two companies are probably decades away from space flight. And even if they say they can, it's most likely just a big scam.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 24, 2008, 06:36:16 PM
Where's the Fail/Ya Right/Prove It Button? Oh it's right here! *presses*
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 24, 2008, 07:11:31 PM
Where's the Fail/Ya Right/Prove It Button? Oh it's right here! *presses*

Don't you have a MySpace to tend to? Perhaps you could re-order your top friends... but then, (http://i29.tinypic.com/ilywxk.png).
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 24, 2008, 07:16:33 PM
Where's the Fail/Ya Right/Prove It Button? Oh it's right here! *presses*

So you finally realized that you fail?  *sigh* Probably not.  :(
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 24, 2008, 09:28:06 PM
Just personal insults ???
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 09:38:48 PM
Gentlemen, in this thread ROUND000 actually does not fail...he prevails. What have any of you said or provided that proves anything he said to be false? Everything he has stated is fact and holds much more weight than anything you said. His statements can be googled, researched, etc...which is much more than anything you have claimed (aside from an outdated book from the 1800's).

Sorry, but here fe FAILS!

Kudos ROUND000
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 24, 2008, 09:40:10 PM
Where's the Fail/Ya Right/Prove It Button? Oh it's right here! *presses*

This post isn't exactly the epitome of maturity.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: The Creep on June 24, 2008, 09:43:31 PM
This post isn't exactly the epitome of maturity.

Cant argue with that lol
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Androkles on June 25, 2008, 12:01:33 AM
FE-argumentation isn't exactly the epitome of maturity.

*fixed*
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Pointland32 on June 25, 2008, 04:06:37 AM
Why would space flight be impossible on a flat Earth but not on a round Earth?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 25, 2008, 06:57:00 AM
Why would space flight be impossible on a flat Earth but not on a round Earth?

One would require constant propulsion to stay in space; one cannot orbit an accelerating body (as the Earth is in the FE model) without one's own force of propulsion equal to one's mass multiplied by the acceleration one is trying to keep up with. To summarise; one could launch oneself into space, but it would be a pointless endeavour because one could not stay there.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 07:05:48 AM
They could easily be faked.
I didn't fake them.  In fact, I've seen it through the eyepiece with my own eye.  I could show the same to anyone in person.  Another win for RE!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 07:20:25 AM
Why would space flight be impossible on a flat Earth but not on a round Earth?

One would require constant propulsion to stay in space; one cannot orbit an accelerating body (as the Earth is in the FE model) without one's own force of propulsion equal to one's mass multiplied by the acceleration one is trying to keep up with. To summarise; one could launch oneself into space, but it would be a pointless endeavour because one could not stay there.

And yet the sun and moon seem to orbit some 3000 miles above the flat earth quite happily.  FE claims that the exact mechanism for this is unknowable and therefore refuses to speculate.  Personally, I believe that NASA does have some pretty smart people working for them (there is a reason for the "rocket scientist" stereotype) and they were able to figure out that mechanism and tap into it, thus we have sustained space flight above a flat earth.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 25, 2008, 07:47:07 AM
And yet the sun and moon seem to orbit some 3000 miles above the flat earth quite happily.  FE claims that the exact mechanism for this is unknowable and therefore refuses to speculate.  Personally, I believe that NASA does have some pretty smart people working for them (there is a reason for the "rocket scientist" stereotype) and they were able to figure out that mechanism and tap into it, thus we have sustained space flight above a flat earth.

Fair point.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 10:00:27 AM
I feel so good right now...This thread is a HUGE RE win! And like what The Creep said, everything an REer has said here can be researched, and everything that an FEer has said has no proof to back them up.  ;D
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 25, 2008, 10:04:10 AM
I feel so good right now...This thread is a HUGE RE win! And like what The Creep said, everything an REer has said here can be researched, and everything that an FEer has said has no proof to back them up.  ;D

Does this help to make Flat Earth seem like less of a threat to your own belief system?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 10:06:28 AM
Are you an FEer or an REer?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 25, 2008, 10:14:00 AM
Are you an FEer or an REer?

I'm not going to answer that, because it shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 10:42:13 AM
Ok then...
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 12:26:17 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Penispoop agogo on June 25, 2008, 12:33:09 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.

You mean vomit comets or whatever? What about live shots of weightless astronauts that last longer than the duration of weightlessness on the vomit comet? Is it done with wires or something? cus I'd like to sample that equipment
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 12:37:31 PM
Live 'shots'. From who? NASA. FAQ.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 12:38:44 PM
Quote
You mean vomit comets or whatever? What about live shots of weightless astronauts that last longer than the duration of weightlessness on the vomit comet? Is it done with wires or something? cus I'd like to sample that equipment

Space Ship One and Space Ship Two will use the same method to acheive "weightlessness". It's an extended vomit comet ride. As I remember the effect is anticipated to last five minutes in the commercial flights. I think Space Ship One encountered just over a minute and a half, but I'm too lazy to look it up again. I've posted the information here before.
Any one who claims sustained free-fall due to "orbit" is clearly lying.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 12:52:38 PM
You mean telling the truth. You have no proof to back you up.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 12:53:47 PM
Commercial vomit comet rides are now available in the US.

http://www.gozerog.com/
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 12:54:57 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 12:56:17 PM

Any one who claims sustained free-fall due to "orbit" is clearly lying.

Proof?  Tito and others have claimed to do it.  Proof they're lying?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 12:56:50 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.

And who, I ask, is offering travellers the chance to be weightless for "days on end"? These flights, as was previously pointed out, will be brief affairs.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 12:59:20 PM
NASA. A derrrrrrr.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 01:00:47 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.

And who, I ask, is offering travellers the chance to be weightless for "days on end"? These flights, as was previously pointed out, will be brief affairs.
Do you know who Dennis Tito is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: NTheGreat on June 25, 2008, 01:02:49 PM
Quote
Space Ship One and Space Ship Two will use the same method to acheive "weightlessness". It's an extended vomit comet ride. As I remember the effect is anticipated to last five minutes in the commercial flights. I think Space Ship One encountered just over a minute and a half, but I'm too lazy to look it up again. I've posted the information here before.
Any one who claims sustained free-fall due to "orbit" is clearly lying.

You are aware that a 5 minute weightless ride on a FE would require the craft to fly up to about 883 km, a good 2 and a half times higher than the ISS?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 01:03:22 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.

And who, I ask, is offering travellers the chance to be weightless for "days on end"? These flights, as was previously pointed out, will be brief affairs.
Do you know who Dennis Tito is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito

A liar? Tell me, have you ever met him? How is he any more credible than the head of NASA, or whoever?

And my response to ROUNDOOO is *facepalm*
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 01:03:47 PM
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.

And who, I ask, is offering travellers the chance to be weightless for "days on end"? These flights, as was previously pointed out, will be brief affairs.
Do you know who Dennis Tito is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito
QFT
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 01:04:30 PM
More links, yay!

First person to take a space vacation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito)

Space vacations:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/01/57164 (http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/01/57164) (this one's good)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism)


It appears that FEers has ignored this post. So I am psoting it again. Seriously FEers read the articles and show us some proof to your claims.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon?
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 01:06:14 PM
If the space agencies felt that there was the slightest chance of being compromised by letting tourists visit space, they wouldn't allow it.  Presumably, the travelers are being fooled by the optical illusion of the Earth appearing to be round.
And how are they being fooled into thinking they're weightless for days on end?
The same way people experience weightlessness on a regular basis in slightly modified passanger jets? Hell, you can go to Russia experience weightless flight tomorrow if you want.
What part of "for days on end" don't you understand?  Modified passenger jets can produce about 30 seconds of weightlessness at most.

And who, I ask, is offering travellers the chance to be weightless for "days on end"? These flights, as was previously pointed out, will be brief affairs.
Do you know who Dennis Tito is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Tito

A liar? Tell me, have you ever met him? How is he any more credible than the head of NASA, or whoever?

And my response to ROUNDOOO is *facepalm*
You asked the question.  Don't ask the question if you're not prepared to accept the answer.  Your goalpost was "show me who is offering weightlessness for days on end."  The answer is "Space Adventures" and if you have 20 mil lying around an orbital ride can be yours:
http://www.spaceadventures.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=orbital.welcome (http://www.spaceadventures.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=orbital.welcome)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 25, 2008, 01:09:57 PM
I simply and absolutely love the title of this thread.   ;D
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
Yes, but these are well out of the reach of ordinary people, and those that are even remotely close to within the reach of the overwhelming, vast majority of the planet do not offer days on end. I mean, they have had 6 clients- the idea that they are incorruptable is naive.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 01:12:36 PM
Yes, but these are well out of the reach of ordinary people, and those that are even remotely close to within the reach of the overwhelming, vast majority of the planet do not offer days on end. I mean, they have had 6 clients- the idea that they are incorruptable is naive.
The idea that 6 people would shell out 20 million a piece out of pocket for a lie is naive.  You didn't ask who was offering it to every man, woman, and child.  You failed to specify, so I gave you an answer that satisfied your question.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 01:13:58 PM
Who says they did shell out 20 million? Perhaps the reverse is true.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 01:17:28 PM
And your proof is where?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 01:18:28 PM
Why would I believe the testimony of six very well connected people over the massive evidence showing sustained space flight is impossible?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 01:19:18 PM
And your proof is where?
The same place yours is? Can you prove they did?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 01:22:34 PM
Who says they did shell out 20 million? Perhaps the reverse is true.

So a company is paying $20 million for someone to say that they went into orbit?  Where do I sign up?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 01:23:14 PM
Yes I can prove they did actually. It's called Google.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: NTheGreat on June 25, 2008, 01:26:15 PM
Quote
Why would I believe the testimony of six very well connected people over the massive evidence showing sustained space flight is impossible?

I can't recall any evidence that space flight is impossible. Only attempts to suggest how it could be faked, and the fact that apparently space flight is impossible in the FE hypothesis.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 01:27:44 PM
Who says they did shell out 20 million? Perhaps the reverse is true.

So a company is paying $20 million for someone to say that they went into orbit?  Where do I sign up?
Are you a millionaire? Nope? Not a plausible candidate; back to the land of the blind with you.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 01:30:59 PM
Why would I believe the testimony of six very well connected people over the massive evidence showing sustained space flight is impossible?
Where's this "massive evidence"?  Everytime I check, the orbital elements of spacecraft successfully predict their location from any viewing spot I choose.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 02:10:16 PM
Who says they did shell out 20 million? Perhaps the reverse is true.

So a company is paying $20 million for someone to say that they went into orbit?  Where do I sign up?
Are you a millionaire? Nope? Not a plausible candidate; back to the land of the normal people with you.

Fix'd.

As stated many times before, this is a HUGE win for RE. And FEers stop ignoring the links I present. You're just afraid you'll be proven wrong, I know it. I bet that even if an FEer went on a 5 day space vacation they still would be foolish and stubborn enough to still think the Earth is flat.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 25, 2008, 02:14:30 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 25, 2008, 02:14:52 PM
As stated many times before, this is a HUGE win for RE.

If it's such a huge win, why do you feel the need to keep saying so? It's like your entire existence depends on you making sure everybody knows that the Earth is round. Just relax.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 02:16:21 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

You didn't initially specify how many it needed to be.  In fact, since you're making the claim that they're liars I believe the burden of proof is on you to support that claim for each and every one of them.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Claiming to go to space is a more extraordinary claim than that people are dishonest?  Wow...
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 02:19:08 PM
NEEMAN got owned. And for the penguin guy, my existence is not to make sure everyone knows the Earth is round, but just FEers. Well actually that's about 0.5% of my life but whatever. And STOP IGNORING MY LINKS FEERS. It just proves that you're scared and ignorant.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
Claiming to go to space is a more extraordinary claim than that people are dishonest?  Wow...
Uniterrupted video of them in freefall for long periods of time is the incredible proof to that claim.  Now if you want to make a separate claim that they're liars I want to see the proof.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 25, 2008, 02:27:13 PM
Has anyone in this thread proven that sustained space travel is possible yet?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 02:28:53 PM
Have anyone in this thread proven that sustained space travel is possible yet?
Predicted and observed locations and velocities of spacecraft match from all locations, so yes:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/issicon2.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 02:29:15 PM
Has anyone in this thread proven that sustained space travel is possible yet?

No.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 02:32:56 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

Actually 5 claim to have done it.  The 6th one will supposedly go up in October.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 02:35:43 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

Actually 5 claim to have done it.  The 6th one will supposedly go up in October.

I'm certain that there are more people who claim to have visited aliens or ghost or ghouls, etc. We also should accept their testimony as fact, right? Unless you can prove they are liars...
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 02:37:39 PM
Has anyone in this thread proven that sustained space travel is possible yet?

No.

Well, if you don't count 50 years of space flight history, the pictures taken of spacecraft in orbit from the ground, pictures of earth from space, the testimony of over one hundred astronauts that have been to space (including 12 that walked on the moon), telemetry from deep space probes, etc., then no, there is no evidence that sustained space flight is possible.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 02:40:28 PM
So we're in agreement: there is no evidence that sustained space flight is possible.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 25, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

Actually 5 claim to have done it.  The 6th one will supposedly go up in October.

I'm certain that there are more people who claim to have visited aliens or ghost or ghouls, etc. We also should accept their testimony as fact, right? Unless you can prove they are liars...

Thats what I was thinking. And a hell of a lot of people claim to speak to God and seen miracles and yet I'm sure most people on this site would say that they much be wrong/lying.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 25, 2008, 02:42:02 PM
So we're in agreement: there is no evidence that sustained space flight is possible.

Actually I've seen it myself, I've seen irrefutable evidence, that you're too much of a dick to accept that it's evidence whether you agree with it or not doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 02:45:30 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

Actually 5 claim to have done it.  The 6th one will supposedly go up in October.

I'm certain that there are more people who claim to have visited aliens or ghost or ghouls, etc. We also should accept their testimony as fact, right? Unless you can prove they are liars...

Thats what I was thinking. And a hell of a lot of people claim to speak to God and seen miracles and yet I'm sure most people on this site would say that they much be wrong/lying.

We're a very discerning bunch until it comes to the religion of science and the altar of RET.

Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on June 25, 2008, 02:46:15 PM
6 people claim to have done this? Huge win.

Actually 5 claim to have done it.  The 6th one will supposedly go up in October.

I'm certain that there are more people who claim to have visited aliens or ghost or ghouls, etc. We also should accept their testimony as fact, right? Unless you can prove they are liars...

Thats what I was thinking. And a hell of a lot of people claim to speak to God and seen miracles and yet I'm sure most people on this site would say that they much be wrong/lying.

We're a very discerning bunch until it comes to the religion of science and the altar of RET.



Damn right we are
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 25, 2008, 03:33:52 PM
So we're in agreement: there is no evidence that sustained space flight is possible.

Actually I've seen it myself, I've seen irrefutable evidence, that you're too much of a dick to accept that it's evidence whether you agree with it or not doesn't matter.

You're part of the conspiracy too! Didn't you know?

 ::)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 03:58:47 PM
So we're in agreement: there is no evidence that sustained space flight is possible.

No, we are not in agreement because I do count the 50 years of spaceflight history.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 25, 2008, 04:08:21 PM
Then we're definitely not in agreement, no.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2008, 04:12:05 PM
Then the fray continues.   ;)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 25, 2008, 04:26:27 PM
I can't stop laughing at the foolishness of the FEers here. They don't accept that they've been owned and HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PROOF TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 26, 2008, 01:29:12 AM
This is our forum. If yu're going to come here, the burden of proof is on you to prove we are wrong.

To make this clear: no-one at this forum is going to accep NASA images, data, info, opinion or anything else NASA-related as proof. It's in the FAQ, and it's a basic point, so quit bringing it up.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 26, 2008, 01:48:25 AM
This is our forum. If yu're going to come here, the burden of proof is on you to prove we are wrong.

To make this clear: no-one at this forum is going to accep NASA images, data, info, opinion or anything else NASA-related as proof. It's in the FAQ, and it's a basic point, so quit bringing it up.

Nasa is not the company offering a trip to space..

READ THE FAQ FIRST POST!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 26, 2008, 01:51:36 AM
Yes, but it has been referenced as an organisation that proves sustained space flight can exist. Read every post. Thanks.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 26, 2008, 02:00:40 AM
Yes, but it has been referenced as an organisation that proves sustained space flight can exist.

What is your point?

Space Adventures, the company offering this, is not Nasa. So what does not believing Nasa's pictures, data, etc. have to do with this company?

Quote
Read every post. Thanks.

Learn how to spell. Thanks.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: smchls on June 26, 2008, 02:07:44 AM
Wait, are you trying to say because it goes against your beliefs, you will not believe it whether it is true or not?  :o

That is very closed minded.  How would you like a RE'er disputing irrefutable evidence that the Earth is flat? Because, that is exactly what you are doing.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 26, 2008, 02:33:21 AM
Yes, but it has been referenced as an organisation that proves sustained space flight can exist.

What is your point?

Space Adventures, the company offering this, is not Nasa. So what does not believing Nasa's pictures, data, etc. have to do with this company?

Look at the posts that have been made: messierhunter and others have referenced NASA, their space travel and, to quote markjo, "the 50 years of spaceflight history". That means NASA, and that's what I was referring to.

Quote
Read every post. Thanks.

Learn how to spell. Thanks.

How to spell? Not only is that really childish, but I don't see any words I've spelt wrong. Unless you mean 'organisation', which of course is spelt with an 's' in British English, which is to say, proper English. =)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: divito the truthist on June 26, 2008, 03:09:14 AM
Nasa is not the company offering a trip to space..

Have they launched yet?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Parsifal on June 26, 2008, 04:22:05 AM
I can't stop laughing at the foolishness of the FEers here. They don't accept that they've been owned and HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PROOF TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS.

Text is so much more meaningful when it's all uppercase and five times larger than usual.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 26, 2008, 04:25:01 AM
Yeah, caps lock is a profound thing.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 06:55:55 AM
Yes, but it has been referenced as an organisation that proves sustained space flight can exist.

What is your point?

Space Adventures, the company offering this, is not Nasa. So what does not believing Nasa's pictures, data, etc. have to do with this company?

Look at the posts that have been made: messierhunter and others have referenced NASA, their space travel and, to quote markjo, "the 50 years of spaceflight history". That means NASA, and that's what I was referring to.
I reference NASA because I can personally show their spacecraft to be in orbit right where they're supposed to be.  Therefore, it is valid for me to trust their evidence as I have yet to see any evidence that says I shouldn't trust them.  For your sake I gave you space adventures since it's a non-nasa company offering spaceflight trips.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 26, 2008, 07:07:43 AM
Yes, but it has been referenced as an organisation that proves sustained space flight can exist.

What is your point?

Space Adventures, the company offering this, is not Nasa. So what does not believing Nasa's pictures, data, etc. have to do with this company?

Look at the posts that have been made: messierhunter and others have referenced NASA, their space travel and, to quote markjo, "the 50 years of spaceflight history". That means NASA, and that's what I was referring to.
I reference NASA because I can personally show their spacecraft to be in orbit right where they're supposed to be.  Therefore, it is valid for me to trust their evidence as I have yet to see any evidence that says I shouldn't trust them.  For your sake I gave you space adventures since it's a non-nasa company offering spaceflight trips.

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you; I'm just explaining to him why I was talking about NASA.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 09:39:15 AM
Wow, NEEMAN you are really getting owned here.  :)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: divito the truthist on June 26, 2008, 10:09:49 AM
I reference NASA because I can personally show their spacecraft to be in orbit right where they're supposed to be. 

So because the location is where they say it is, means that the actual device is what they say it is? Right.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 10:25:08 AM
Yes, actually. We have all the proof we need. You have no proof at all.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 10:30:48 AM
I reference NASA because I can personally show their spacecraft to be in orbit right where they're supposed to be. 

So because the location is where they say it is, means that the actual device is what they say it is? Right.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Meanwhile you've failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that my evidence is wrong.  Until you can produce said evidence, you and your unfounded opinion are worthless.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: divito the truthist on June 26, 2008, 10:39:37 AM
\
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

..it could not be a duck. Thanks.

Meanwhile you've failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that my evidence is wrong.  Until you can produce said evidence, you and your unfounded opinion are worthless.

You've provided evidence?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 10:58:10 AM
\
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

..it could not be a duck. Thanks.
So ducks don't look like ducks or quack like ducks?  Wow, quite the interesting logic there.
Quote
Meanwhile you've failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that my evidence is wrong.  Until you can produce said evidence, you and your unfounded opinion are worthless.

You've provided evidence?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/iss2.jpg)
Prove this was faked or shut up.  It was obtained based on predictions generated using the orbit of the ISS and my location.  There's no other logical explanation than that the ISS really is in orbit.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: The Creep on June 26, 2008, 11:00:10 AM
Whats funny is now NASA has cameras attached to its shuttles with live, uninterrupted, video of the shuttle on Earth..blasting off...leaving the atmoSHPERE...and reaching space. Anyone can watch it...LIVE!

But as far as space vacations are concerned, yes theyre expensive. Everything new and cutting edge like that is at first. I would bet within 10-15 years, after the trip has been made several hundred times by several hundred or thousand people you will see the price of one drop by 60-80% as other space vacation companies emerge and open. Granted it will still be too expensive for the majority of the public but more affordable none the less.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 11:18:40 AM
Prove this was faked or shut up. 

I think Divito's point was that your photograph could easily have been faked.

Take some time off, please, and try and regain your dignity.  Throwing little temper tantrums on the Flat Earth Society Forums is gauche. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 11:28:08 AM
Take some time off, please, and try and regain your dignity.  Throwing little temper tantrums on the Flat Earth Society Forums is gauche. 

But par for the course, unfortunately (not speaking specifically or only of Monsieur Messier).


What part of "live feed" implies that the footage is live, uninterrupted footage from a space craft other than the name? Nothing.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: divito the truthist on June 26, 2008, 11:28:53 AM
So ducks don't look like ducks or quack like ducks?  Wow, quite the interesting logic there.

Nice straw man.

Prove this was faked or shut up.  It was obtained based on predictions generated using the orbit of the ISS and my location.  There's no other logical explanation than that the ISS really is in orbit.

All I need to do is showcase that it could be faked. That line of thought for photographs, especially ones with the characteristics that you've shown, has already been proven. If you want to stick to your easily dismissible evidence then you have that right, by all means. But if you want to "knock some sense into us idiots," then I suggest you try a little harder.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 11:41:43 AM
Prove this was faked or shut up. 

I think Divito's point was that your photograph could easily have been faked.

I think my point is that if you're going to claim fraud the burden of proof is on YOU to show it to be fraudulent.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 11:50:00 AM
You've made a large leap there, haven't you?  From "could have been" to a claim of fraud? 



Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: the_flutist on June 26, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
\
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

..it could not be a duck. Thanks.
So ducks don't look like ducks or quack like ducks?  Wow, quite the interesting logic there.
Quote
Meanwhile you've failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that my evidence is wrong.  Until you can produce said evidence, you and your unfounded opinion are worthless.

You've provided evidence?
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Messierhunter/iss2.jpg)
Prove this was faked or shut up.  It was obtained based on predictions generated using the orbit of the ISS and my location.  There's no other logical explanation than that the ISS really is in orbit.

The picture probably is fake. It is extremly blurry and could be anything. I think it's the top of an electrical pole with a large city in the background.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 12:02:17 PM
So ducks don't look like ducks or quack like ducks?  Wow, quite the interesting logic there.

Nice straw man.
Quote
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

..it could not be a duck. Thanks.
You made the statement, it's not a strawman dumbass.
Quote
Prove this was faked or shut up.  It was obtained based on predictions generated using the orbit of the ISS and my location.  There's no other logical explanation than that the ISS really is in orbit.

All I need to do is showcase that it could be faked.
No, you need to prove it WAS faked.  If you accused me of faking it the burden of proof is on you to show it.  Making the claim is not good enough.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 12:03:36 PM
You've made a large leap there, haven't you?  From "could have been" to a claim of fraud? 
You insuated it, now support it.  I give you my word I didn't fake it.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 12:07:33 PM

The picture probably is fake. It is extremly blurry and could be anything.
Thanks for the insult.  I'd like to see you take a better picture of the space station.  The atmosphere's a real bitch to deal with.  But does this look familiar?  Same space station, taken from the other side after undocking:
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02kmaK6bah6pi/610x.jpg)
Oh look, mine matches NASA's.
Quote
I think it's the top of an electrical pole with a large city in the background.
Nice accusation, now support it.  Come back to me with a picture of an electrical pole with a large city in the background that looks like this.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: divito the truthist on June 26, 2008, 12:27:42 PM
You made the statement, it's not a strawman dumbass.

I did not say that ducks don't quack like ducks, or that they don't look like ducks. You misrepresented my statement to make it easier to refute; thus, straw man.

No, you need to prove it WAS faked.  If you accused me of faking it the burden of proof is on you to show it.  Making the claim is not good enough.

I didn't accuse you of faking it. Do you like imagining things?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 12:34:12 PM
You've made a large leap there, haven't you?  From "could have been" to a claim of fraud? 
You insuated it, now support it.  I give you my word I didn't fake it.

Support what?

We all understand you are proud of your photograph.  You have perhaps chosen the wrong venue to showcase your skills?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 12:47:57 PM
I did not say that ducks don't quack like ducks, or that they don't look like ducks. You misrepresented my statement to make it easier to refute; thus, straw man.
Quote
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

..it could not be a duck. Thanks.
Strawman huh?  Nope. ::)
Quote
No, you need to prove it WAS faked.  If you accused me of faking it the burden of proof is on you to show it.  Making the claim is not good enough.

I didn't accuse you of faking it. Do you like imagining things?
I didn't say you did.  Do you like imagining things?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 12:53:56 PM
You've made a large leap there, haven't you?  From "could have been" to a claim of fraud? 
You insuated it, now support it.  I give you my word I didn't fake it.

Support what?
Your insinuation that I faked it. The only reason I keep posting it is because FE'ers keep pretending there's "no evidence" and I quote, that spaceflight is real.  Fuck the photograph, I have tons more from amateur photographers far more skilled and with better equipment than me.  Prove they were all faked or shut the hell up.
(http://media.skyandtelescope.com/images/Dantowitz_ISS_shuttle.jpg)
For fuck's sake, I can measure the orbit of the ISS and find it to be where it's supposed to be.  Here's a nice little program I plan to try out following my next ISS observation:
http://www.coastalbend.edu/acdem/math/sats/elfind.htm
What's your excuse going to be when I have the results from that test too?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 12:57:08 PM
I've rarely been called upon to support my own opinion, but I'll give it a try.

"You've made a large leap there, haven't you?  From "could have been" to a claim of fraud? "

How's that?






Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 12:58:42 PM
I find it troubling that your picture you supposedly took doesn't look like this one from NASA.

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/FlatEarthSki/iss-d3.jpg)

Is the NASA one fake?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:14:35 PM
I find it troubling that your picture you supposedly took doesn't look like this one from NASA.

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/FlatEarthSki/iss-d3.jpg)

Is the NASA one fake?
Why do you find it troubling?  I don't find it troubling at all.  You can find ground pictures of ISS at all stages of construction from a variety of angles determined by how high over head the pass occured. But I'm guessing this was a space-born shot?  In that case it could have easily been taken at an angle not accessible to a ground observer.  The question is not whether a random space based picture looks like a ground-based picture, it's whether a ground based picture looks like any of the space based pictures.  I have other pictures I took at earlier phases that look totally different than the ones I take now.  It actually is a confirmation that the station is growing as the shuttle adds new parts and you can see those parts as they are added.
Here's a more "L shaped" video I took of ISS, with a piss poor camera years ago.
http://speur.tripod.com/main/iss_tracking.mov

Better yet, here's a shot taken by Mike Tyrrell of the station during what looks like roughly that phase of construction:
(http://www.astrospider.com/iss_gallery/010525/tc094116_labelled.gif)
Same station, different angle.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
I think it's supposed to depict the Soyuz module docked with the ISS. I know this because I took that picture in my backyard.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
I think it's supposed to depict the Soyuz module docked with the ISS. I know this because I took that picture in my backyard.
You just said a minute ago:
Quote
like this one from NASA.
Was it from NASA or your backyard liar?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 01:22:48 PM
I don't know. Are you willing to believe either?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:24:05 PM
I don't know. Are you willing to believe either?
So you lied then?  You made conflicting statements so why should I believe a pathological liar?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 01:26:25 PM
It's obviously a back yard photo of a NASA photo.  ;D
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
Actually all I showed was the ability to take a photo of a model and make it appear like a believable picture of an object in space. Just like NASA (and you?).

Took me three and a half minutes to alter this image here:
(http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/vault/iss-d.jpg)

But hey, if NASA labeled it ISS with Soyuz, no one would doubt it's authentic nature, I'm sure. You didn't.

Ski's Space Agency:
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/FlatEarthSki/iss-d3.jpg)

Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:37:51 PM
Actually all I showed was the ability to take a photo of a model and make it appear like a believable picture of an object in space. Just like NASA (and you?).
Actually I accused you of lying and asked you which was true.  Apparently neither was true.  I should have guessed since you're a patholigical manipulative liar lacking any intellectual honesty whatsoever.  I don't suppose you could provide an exif jpg or raw of your image showing that you used a telescope, not a lens, could you?  I can.

Incidently, you've helped prove an earlier point I made that if there's going to be a massive conspiracy, amateurs like me would have to be in on it too.  According to your line of thinking, showing someone the space station with their own eye through the telescope and without using any camera or digital image manipulation whatsoever is incontrovertable proof of spaceflight.  Good to know that all this time, all those people at public viewings who have seen the space station through my scope and others have seen irrefutable proof of spaceflight, and by extension, RE.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Mrs. Peach on June 26, 2008, 01:41:40 PM
I have a remedy for overblown ego, crow with nit sauce.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:43:41 PM
I have a remedy for overblown ego, crow with nit sauce.
I have a remedy for FE.  Sidewalk astronomy.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 01:47:33 PM
I didn't take the picture in my backyard. Anymore than NASA takes theirs of objects in space (or I suspect you took yours in your backyard). I showed how easy it is to modify a picture of a lousy to scale model and make it look like it was a picture of something actually in space. It was good enough quality for you to accept it was from NASA. It fit the preconceptions you have of a photo of an object in space. It wasn't. It was a lousy model. I just played with it for under five minutes and made it look damn near NASA-like. What could NASA do with pictures on their budget?!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 01:55:36 PM
I didn't take the picture in my backyard. Anymore than NASA takes theirs of objects in space (or I suspect you took yours in your backyard). I showed how easy it is to modify a picture of a lousy to scale model and make it look like it was a picture of something actually in space. It was good enough quality for you to accept it was from NASA. It fit the preconceptions you have of a photo of an object in space. It wasn't. It was a lousy model. I just played with it for under five minutes and made it look damn near NASA-like. What could NASA do with pictures on their budget?!
I'll grant you that it's much easier to make it look like it was taken on the ground, but to make it look like it was taken in space?  Nope, not easy, sorry.  Try the reverse and you'll find it quite difficult.  Many movies with millions of dollars for special effects have tried and all have failed to make it look perfect.  I initially assumed it was a ground picture and had to go back to correct myself and ask if you were saying it was taken in space because I noticed the angle was a little odd for a ground based picture.  It wasn't long before I realized you were lying, though to be fair I didn't know what the truth was.  Obviously you've had plenty of experience in lying.  That said, if I were to show you the station in person you'd have absolutely no recourse.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 02:03:28 PM
The only reason you suspected it was not a picture from NASA is because I retracted my claim that it was. It proves how the public takes "evidence" for granted when it is provided by the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 26, 2008, 02:14:06 PM
The only reason you suspected it was not a picture from NASA is because I retracted my claim that it was. It proves how the public takes "evidence" for granted when it is provided by the conspiracy.
No, it proves that all amateur astronomers must be in on the conspiracy and apparently we use digital manipulation and scale models to support NASA and the "conspiracy".  I think this has inspired me to step up my participation in sidewalk astronomy events, maybe even start organizing some new ones. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 02:16:29 PM
 It proves you and NASA could easily make pictures of "objects in orbit". Have fun with your sidewalk astronomy. Everyone needs a hobby.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 02:22:54 PM
Has anyone noticed the side supposedly on the side of rational science is the side that seems consistently to resort to personal attacks, hyperbole and irrationality when confronted with a conflicting point of view?  I'm not advocating one side or the other, I've been lurking this forum for a long time but just now signed up for an account.  It definitely seems like the FE side of things has a better sense of humor.  Kudos to ski for a well-done ruse and a 2 minute minor penalty to messierhunter for poor form. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Penispoop agogo on June 26, 2008, 02:41:38 PM
And the only way to actually end the FE and RE debate once and for all, is to image earth from space, it's convenient how it's always an impossibility no matter what
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 03:09:14 PM
Ski, you won't win the arguement. Your statements are invalid and you have no proof to back you up. Not only is the Earth round, you have no proof to back you up. Just saying "they are faked" doesn't make them faked.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 03:50:33 PM
Ski, you won't win the arguement. Your statements are invalid and you have no proof to back you up. Not only is the Earth round, you have no proof to back you up. Just saying "they are faked" doesn't make them faked.

I'm not the one claiming my picture proves the shape of the earth. I simply showed how easy it is to manipulate an image to depict a "space picture". That NASA can do the same thing and pass it as "proof" is a given conclusion. If they are going to make bizarre claims like "This is from space" they should back it up. You round earthers are a strange lot.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 03:51:08 PM
Actually, I think he did a great job showing that a photograph that _he_admits_to_faking_ was able to fool a so-called "sidewalk astronomer".  Seems like he has a case for sewing seeds of doubt.  
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 26, 2008, 04:04:53 PM
Ski, you won't win the arguement. Your statements are invalid and you have no proof to back you up. Not only is the Earth round, you have no proof to back you up. Just saying "they are faked" doesn't make them faked.

I'm not the one claiming my picture proves the shape of the earth. I simply showed how easy it is to manipulate an image to depict a "space picture". That NASA can do the same thing and pass it as "proof" is a given conclusion. If they are going to make bizarre claims like "This is from space" they should back it up. You round earthers are a strange lot.

Because it's easier to fake a picture of the ISS in orbit that means that all pictures of ISS in orbit are fake?  Is that what you are trying to say?  Is it so hard to believe that someone may actually be able to take a true and accurate (albeit, somewhat fuzzy) picture of a rather large object in a relatively low earth orbit?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: the_flutist on June 26, 2008, 04:07:32 PM
We will never get into space. It is impossible.If you need proof, just look down at the ground. It is flat. Therefore, the world is flat.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:11:43 PM
Because it's easier to fake a picture of the ISS in orbit that means that all pictures of ISS in orbit are fake?  Is that what you are trying to say?  Is it so hard to believe that someone may actually be able to take a true and accurate (albeit, somewhat fuzzy) picture of a rather large object in a relatively low earth orbit?

It certainly increases my skepticism when people are claiming the pictures are "proof" of the impossible, yes.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:14:20 PM
We will never get into space. It is impossible.If you need proof, just look down at the ground. It is flat. Therefore, the world is flat.

Actually it is most certainly not flat, it is bumpy. Bumpy and round. Spaceflight is possible. We wouldn't fake images of planets we've never been to. And of course you have no proof either. FAIL.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: markjo on June 26, 2008, 04:16:03 PM
Because it's easier to fake a picture of the ISS in orbit that means that all pictures of ISS in orbit are fake?  Is that what you are trying to say?  Is it so hard to believe that someone may actually be able to take a true and accurate (albeit, somewhat fuzzy) picture of a rather large object in a relatively low earth orbit?

It certainly increases my skepticism when people are claiming the pictures are "proof" of the impossible, yes.

And yet you refuse to even try to replicate the observation yourself.  Go ahead, dare to try the impossible.  If you limit yourself to only what is possible, then life gets boring after a while.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:17:06 PM
I do not have a telescope of sufficient power even if I so desired.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:18:57 PM
Do you know anyone rich?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:20:14 PM
Rich people do not call themselves "rich".


Unless their name happens to be Richard and they enjoy the nickname.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:22:52 PM
Rich people do not call themselves "rich".


Unless their name happens to be Richard and they enjoy the nickname.

I think Bill Gates would call himself rich. I think.

But I technically know someone with a few million dollars, does that count?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Pointland32 on June 26, 2008, 04:24:03 PM
If you need proof, just look down at the ground. It is flat. Therefore, the world is flat.
When I look at the ground, I see my carpet. Therefore, the world is covered by my carpet.


Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:28:23 PM
OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:29:01 PM


I think Bill Gates would call himself rich. I think.

But I technically know someone with a few million dollars, does that count?

I would be surprised to hear Bill Gates say something like "I'm rich". Perhaps, it's possible. He is Nouveau riche after all, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 04:30:12 PM
If you need proof, just look down at the ground. It is flat. Therefore, the world is flat.
When I look at the ground, I see my carpet. Therefore, the world is covered by my carpet.

I realize you're trying to make a point, but it would be better made if you could avoid hyperbole.  If you look down and see carpet, you're either inside some object, or you have laid carpet down upon the ground.  Trying to demonstrate faulty logic with similarly faulty logic is fail. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:31:13 PM


I think Bill Gates would call himself rich. I think.

But I technically know someone with a few million dollars, does that count?

I would be surprised to hear Bill Gates say something like "I'm rich". Perhaps, it's possible. He is Nouveau riche after all, but I doubt it.

If I was Bill, I'd call myself rich. Screw what others think of me.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 04:31:54 PM
OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!11

This one pretty well proves my point about RE'ers seeming to be incapable of coherent, adult discussion.  I suspect that eventually this thread will degenerate into posts containing captioned cat pictures and pornographic imagery of men elaborately manipulating themselves.  
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:34:48 PM
You sir, fail at posting. You're just jealous your precious theory is being owned.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: The Creep on June 26, 2008, 04:36:04 PM
OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!11
This one pretty well proves my point about RE'ers seeming to be incapable of coherent, adult discussion.  I suspect that eventually this thread will degenerate into posts containing captioned cat pictures and pornographic imagery of men elaborately manipulating themselves.  

Yeah umm, im not sure what forums you usually are on but that typically doesnt happen in this one. Sorry to disappoint you.

But Messier and ROUND000, you guys need to stop taking the bait. They know theyre wrong and they know that Messiers pic isnt doctored but they always can get a response out of you by claiming it is.

Kudos to Ski though on his pic.....
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:38:33 PM
OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!11
This one pretty well proves my point about RE'ers seeming to be incapable of coherent, adult discussion.  I suspect that eventually this thread will degenerate into posts containing captioned cat pictures and pornographic imagery of men elaborately manipulating themselves.  

Yeah umm, im not sure what forums you usually are on but that typically doesnt happen in this one. Sorry to disappoint you.

But Messier and ROUND000, you guys need to stop taking the bait. They know theyre wrong and they know that Messiers pic isnt doctored but they always can get a response out of you by claiming it is.

Kudos to Ski though on his pic.....

But I enjoy pwning the FE theory.  ???
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 04:40:07 PM
You sir, fail at posting. You're just jealous your precious theory is being owned.

How do I fail at posting in your world?  Is it because I didn't retort with some childish meme or there some un-written rule of posting that I haven't followed?  By all means enlighten me.

Incidentally, I never declared myself on either side of the fence regarding the FE/RE discussion.  I don't have any stake on either side.  Please apologize for jumping to such ludicrous conclusions and making false accusations.  
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:41:45 PM
Kudos to Ski though on his pic.....

A pity I was born a bit too late to make billions on my scam.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:42:01 PM
Well because of your immaturity and unnatural ignorance you have failed at another post.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: The Creep on June 26, 2008, 04:43:37 PM
But I enjoy pwning the FE theory.  ???

Haha well please dont let me stop you lol

And Ski, it is truly unfortunate. You sir have got NASA-like skills lol
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 04:47:45 PM
Well because of your immaturity and unnatural ignorance you have failed at another post.

I'm still waiting for my apology.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:49:18 PM
That you don't deserve. Stop noobing or stop posting. Kthankxbai.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:49:45 PM
And Ski, it is truly unfortunate. You sir have got NASA-like skills lol

It was more convincing than I initially thought it would be. I doubted my ability to make it, to be honest; I'm really not good at these things.
And it took less than five minutes. Imagine what I could do with a few billion dollars to fund my effort...
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 26, 2008, 04:51:19 PM
And Ski, it is truly unfortunate. You sir have got NASA-like skills lol

It was more convincing than I initially thought it would be. I doubted my ability to make it, to be honest; I'm really not good at these things.
And it took less than five minutes. Imagine what I could do with a few billion dollars to fund my effort...

I'd hope that you'd manage pictures that were less blurry, but maybe that's just me being hypercritical. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:51:38 PM
Do you have proof you did it in five minutes?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on June 26, 2008, 04:53:16 PM
It was more convincing than I initially thought it would be. I doubted my ability to make it, to be honest; I'm really not good at these things.
And it took less than five minutes. Imagine what I could do with a few billion dollars to fund my effort...

I'd hope that you'd manage pictures that were less blurry, but maybe that's just me being hypercritical. 

I had to make it blurry because of all the "atmosphere" between my telescope and the space station.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Snaaaaake on June 26, 2008, 04:55:41 PM
Do you have proof you did it in five minutes?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Pointland32 on June 26, 2008, 06:24:55 PM
Trying to demonstrate faulty logic with similarly faulty logic is fail. 
No. By using faulty logic, I showed that his logic was faulty.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Midnight on June 26, 2008, 07:16:04 PM
You didn't read the quote, did you?

This is the oldest, and one of the weakest forms of troll behavior. It also is fail. We read everything you post, and simply cannot care enough to reply directly. What you say has been said. What you claim has been said. What you want will never be. Cope.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on June 27, 2008, 01:30:54 AM
Ski, I approve of your excellent posting in this thread, and your excellent manner and comportment. Another victory for FE!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on June 27, 2008, 06:23:21 AM
Trying to demonstrate faulty logic with similarly faulty logic is fail. 
No. By using faulty logic, I showed that his logic was faulty.
I'm afraid logic doesn't work that way.  I realize that this is just an Internet forum and that the burden of proof and the general level of discourse tends towards lowest common denominator, but if make a conscious choice not to stoop so low in your own arguments, you might see others raise their game as well.  In short, you're better than that. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: General Douchebag on June 27, 2008, 07:10:40 AM
He really isn't.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 27, 2008, 11:06:22 AM
It proves you and NASA could easily make pictures of "objects in orbit". Have fun with your sidewalk astronomy. Everyone needs a hobby.
I can't make satellites appear to fly through the telescope to the human eye.  Try again, and by all means come to a public viewing in florida if you ever get the chance so I can personally dispell this nasty myth you seem to believe.  Furthermore, you just caused your argument to be that all amateur astronomers who participate in satellite photography and videography must be in on the "conspiracy" - thank you for supporting my original argument on this forum and making your "theory" seem even less likely.  So why is it again that not a single damn amateur astronomer has come forward saying they can't find the space station when they look for it?  And thank you for confirming that you it takes digital image manipulation to produce the hoax, not possible in live viewing through an eyepiece in person.  You've done more to condemn your own theory than I ever could have by biting my bait.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 27, 2008, 11:07:06 AM
I do not have a telescope of sufficient power even if I so desired.
Good thing many others who do volunteer their time and their telescope at public viewing and sidewalk astronomy sessions all over the world.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 27, 2008, 11:09:57 AM
Has anyone noticed the side supposedly on the side of rational science is the side that seems consistently to resort to personal attacks, hyperbole and irrationality when confronted with a conflicting point of view?  I'm not advocating one side or the other, I've been lurking this forum for a long time but just now signed up for an account.  It definitely seems like the FE side of things has a better sense of humor.  Kudos to ski for a well-done ruse and a 2 minute minor penalty to messierhunter for poor form. 
I'm sorry, being put on trial and then flat out lied to is not "good form" or "good humor."
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on June 27, 2008, 11:12:09 AM
Kudos to Ski though on his pic.....

A pity I was born a bit too late to make billions on my scam.
Oh really, you think you can make billions by delivering fuzzy pictures of the space station while claiming you took them with your non-existent telescope?  For the love of god, where do I sign up?!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: General Douchebag on June 27, 2008, 11:19:02 AM
Do you know how to paragraph?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 03:15:38 AM
More damning proof of earth's roundness:

While a missing shoreline in my pre-launch photo was compelling evidence, I wanted something more quantitative, so I set about measuring where the hidden bottom of the launch pad should be in the photo.  Since the pad was about 12 miles away in the photo, the effect of the earth's curvature should be even more obvious.  Of course this begs the question, how can someone figure out where the bottom of the pad should be when you can't see it in the photo?  Well, we know how high the pad is and we know the size of the shuttle.  I started by measuring a later photo when the shuttle had just cleared the launch tower and found that the SRB was 953 pixels long at the original rez.  Since we know that the SRBs are 149.16 ft long, that corresponds to 6.39 pixels per foot.  The total height of the launch pad from the top of the lightning mast to ground level is 389 feet.  That corresponds to 2485 pixels.  I drew a line exactly that long at the original rez from the top of the mast straight down.  I then drew an identical line starting at exactly the same height but offset to the side so that it would be directly over the river in the picture.  Sure enough, the line dips well below the top of the water.  This cannot be explained by "perspective effects"
(http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm477/ngchunter/padmeasureweb.jpg)

And here's the image of the shuttle clearing the tower used to establish scale:
(http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm477/ngchunter/cleartower.jpg)

All measurements were made at the original resolution before being resized for the web.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 09:00:05 AM
No response?  I'll take that as a major compliment.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 01, 2008, 09:02:55 AM
I think they're all too stunned with your complete inability to paragraph quote and your apparent inability to grasp sarcasm. Of course you posted at 3:15am and then expected someone to retort between then and 9am.  Maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but most people (FEers included) have regular jobs and lives that consume most of their time.  I wouldn't necessarily assume that their silence is vindication of your position, just that they have a more active life than you apparently do. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: General Douchebag on July 01, 2008, 09:11:07 AM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 09:40:05 AM
I think they're all too stunned with your complete inability to paragraph quote and your apparent inability to grasp sarcasm. Of course you posted at 3:15am and then expected someone to retort between then and 9am. 
Maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but it was only 3:15am in one part of the world, and that was not MY part of the world.  Maybe you also haven't figured out that the only relevant bit of information you can derive is that 6 hours passed between my posts and during that time this forum had plenty of activity from the regular members on other threads while this one sank to the bottom.  And lastly, where the fuck in my last post do you see me quoting anyone?  Honestly, all you do is criticise my posting style.  You claim others have a "more active life" but I wouldn't know it from reading your posts.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 09:44:18 AM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Actually I gave you a proof, which oddly enough, contains words AND numbers (what a concept!).  If you understood the meaning of my words and the significance of the figures presented you'd realize I had just provided proof that the earth is curved.  Would you like to see the original image files at full resolution with intact EXIF data so you can verify my numbers?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: WardoggKC130FE on July 01, 2008, 12:20:56 PM
No they wouldn't.

WIN FOR RE!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 01, 2008, 12:26:28 PM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Actually I gave you a proof, which oddly enough, contains words AND numbers (what a concept!).  If you understood the meaning of my words and the significance of the figures presented you'd realize I had just provided proof that the earth is curved.  Would you like to see the original image files at full resolution with intact EXIF data so you can verify my numbers?

All you might have managed to demonstrate (that's even questionable due the poor quality of your explanation and the picture in question) is that the land in question is somewhat bumpy and inconsistent.  This doesn't pass a proof that the earth is universally round, just that you managed to find a bump. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: General Douchebag on July 01, 2008, 01:15:10 PM
And that trees are opaque.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 02:20:28 PM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Actually I gave you a proof, which oddly enough, contains words AND numbers (what a concept!).  If you understood the meaning of my words and the significance of the figures presented you'd realize I had just provided proof that the earth is curved.  Would you like to see the original image files at full resolution with intact EXIF data so you can verify my numbers?

All you might have managed to demonstrate (that's even questionable due the poor quality of your explanation and the picture in question) is that the land in question is somewhat bumpy and inconsistent.  This doesn't pass a proof that the earth is universally round, just that you managed to find a bump. 

Oh yeah, because a bump explains why a launch pad at sea level appears much too LOW to a camera positioned 12 miles away at sea level.  And by the way, if you want to criticise the quality of my explanation then why don't you point out specific problems you have with it rather than speak in vague generalities?  As for the quality of my pictures, I have the full 10 megapixel images available, so quality is only limited by how big an image you're willing to put up with.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 01, 2008, 02:45:03 PM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Actually I gave you a proof, which oddly enough, contains words AND numbers (what a concept!).  If you understood the meaning of my words and the significance of the figures presented you'd realize I had just provided proof that the earth is curved.  Would you like to see the original image files at full resolution with intact EXIF data so you can verify my numbers?

All you might have managed to demonstrate (that's even questionable due the poor quality of your explanation and the picture in question) is that the land in question is somewhat bumpy and inconsistent.  This doesn't pass a proof that the earth is universally round, just that you managed to find a bump. 

Oh yeah, because a bump explains why a launch pad at sea level appears much too LOW to a camera positioned 12 miles away at sea level.  And by the way, if you want to criticise the quality of my explanation then why don't you point out specific problems you have with it rather than speak in vague generalities?  As for the quality of my pictures, I have the full 10 megapixel images available, so quality is only limited by how big an image you're willing to put up with.

One major problem with your "proof" is that you're trying to use sea-level as a valid, static unit of measurement.  It's not.  In fact, its far more variable in a round earth model than in a flat earth model.  Perhaps you should do some more research on things like "True Altitude" aka. MSL or Mean Sea Level and sea surface topography.  Unless you want to go ahead and keep referring sea level as a static, valid unit of measurement, in which case I'm sure the FEers would happily declare a win. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 01, 2008, 02:46:53 PM
Another victory for FE!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: General Douchebag on July 01, 2008, 02:59:57 PM
I second that!
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: MadDogX on July 01, 2008, 03:10:44 PM
Ehhh. No.

1.) Uglykidjoe's argument against RE assumes an RE environment (highly variable sea level). Thus it disqualifies itself.

2.) The sea level may be generally variable due to tides, but the current sea level at any point on Earth at any given time is only variable due to waves - which do not explain the visible bulge at great distances.

Another epic fail for FE.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 01, 2008, 03:13:24 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: MadDogX on July 01, 2008, 03:18:16 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?

Good point.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on July 01, 2008, 03:18:34 PM
I don't think his baseline numbers are right anyway.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 01, 2008, 03:30:29 PM
Ehhh. No.

1.) Uglykidjoe's argument against RE assumes an RE environment (highly variable sea level). Thus it disqualifies itself.

2.) The sea level may be generally variable due to tides, but the current sea level at any point on Earth at any given time is only variable due to waves - which do not explain the visible bulge at great distances.

Another epic fail for FE.

Apparently your reading comprehension needs a little work.  Firstly, I'm not the one arguing in favor of using sea level as a valid form of measurement.  That's MessierHunter.  I simply pointed out the invalidity of his claim, especially in the context of his RE beliefs.  Also, I've never identified myself as an FEer.  You're simply assuming that I am when I point out the logical flaws in the arguments of people you apparently agree with. 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 03:33:36 PM
And that it doesn't really need a rebuttal, you just typed words, there weren't any points. So fucking what, you drew two lines and we're all supposed to go "Oh, the Earth must be round then". That would only happen if they were magic.
Actually I gave you a proof, which oddly enough, contains words AND numbers (what a concept!).  If you understood the meaning of my words and the significance of the figures presented you'd realize I had just provided proof that the earth is curved.  Would you like to see the original image files at full resolution with intact EXIF data so you can verify my numbers?

All you might have managed to demonstrate (that's even questionable due the poor quality of your explanation and the picture in question) is that the land in question is somewhat bumpy and inconsistent.  This doesn't pass a proof that the earth is universally round, just that you managed to find a bump. 

Oh yeah, because a bump explains why a launch pad at sea level appears much too LOW to a camera positioned 12 miles away at sea level.  And by the way, if you want to criticise the quality of my explanation then why don't you point out specific problems you have with it rather than speak in vague generalities?  As for the quality of my pictures, I have the full 10 megapixel images available, so quality is only limited by how big an image you're willing to put up with.

One major problem with your "proof" is that you're trying to use sea-level as a valid, static unit of measurement.  It's not.  In fact, its far more variable in a round earth model than in a flat earth model.  Perhaps you should do some more research on things like "True Altitude" aka. MSL or Mean Sea Level and sea surface topography.  Unless you want to go ahead and keep referring sea level as a static, valid unit of measurement, in which case I'm sure the FEers would happily declare a win. 

We're talking about a 12 mile distance on flat terrain and you're claiming terrain differences completely account for the dip I measured?  I guess it's time to haul out a topographic map and see who's right here.  Declaring a win without even providing a shred of proof.  Yeah, that's real smart.  I'm trying to get the maps for Kennedy but some of them seem to be corrupted on the USGS site.  I'll try to retreive them again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
Ehhh. No.

1.) Uglykidjoe's argument against RE assumes an RE environment (highly variable sea level). Thus it disqualifies itself.

2.) The sea level may be generally variable due to tides, but the current sea level at any point on Earth at any given time is only variable due to waves - which do not explain the visible bulge at great distances.

Another epic fail for FE.

Apparently your reading comprehension needs a little work.  Firstly, I'm not the one arguing in favor of using sea level as a valid form of measurement.  That's MessierHunter.  I simply pointed out the invalidity of his claim, especially in the context of his RE beliefs.  Also, I've never identified myself as an FEer.  You're simply assuming that I am when I point out the logical flaws in the arguments of people you apparently agree with. 

Actually he has a point.  A good experiment assumes itself to find a result that contradicts the hypothesis, therefore it's best to assume FE.  Since sea level apparently doesn't vary as much in FE, according to you, using sea level is valid and therefore FE cannot explain my results.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?
Topographic maps seem to indicate otherwise, but I'm having trouble downloading a high resolution view right now.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 01, 2008, 03:37:48 PM
I don't think his baseline numbers are right anyway.
Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 01, 2008, 03:40:16 PM
We're talking about a 12 mile distance on flat terrain and you're claiming terrain differences completely account for the dip I measured?  I guess it's time to haul out a topographic map and see who's right here.  Declaring a win without even providing a shred of proof.  Yeah, that's real smart.  I'm trying to get the maps for Kennedy but some of them seem to be corrupted on the USGS site.  I'll try to retreive them again tomorrow.

Noooo, I pointed out the flaws in your measurement system, especially in the context of your RE-beliefs.  If your system of measurement is flawed, then your measurements themselves are flawed.  I didn't realize it was that hard to wrap your head around.  I'll break it down for you again and use small words:

1) If the earth is round, then there is no static value for sea-level.  If there is no static value for sea level, your "measurements" are flawed in which case you lose.

2) If the earth is flat, then there is an argument in favor of a static value for sea level, but your argument is then invalid and again you lose.  
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on July 01, 2008, 03:43:00 PM
I don't think his baseline numbers are right anyway.
Care to elaborate?

Your two pictures do not look to be on the same scale to me (I haven't opened them to analyze this, but that's my impression).
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 01, 2008, 03:50:31 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?
Topographic maps seem to indicate otherwise, but I'm having trouble downloading a high resolution view right now.

I would just like to point out that government maps, given the views of people on regarding the governments credibility and motives, are not going to be accepted as proof.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on July 01, 2008, 04:16:40 PM
Here's what I got using a much more reliable method. We know (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html) the mast top is 347 feet from the ground. We know the lightning rod/mast itself is 80 feet tall. The total is 4.3375 the height of the fiberglass mast. Given this, the true ground level of the pad is shown here.


(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/FlatEarthSki/actualheight.jpg)


Anyone can feel free to fact check this, as I did it very quickly so there may be an error, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 02, 2008, 06:27:51 AM
I'm happy to note that none of the FEers have stooped to MessierHunter's level and immediately declared victory not hearing from him for a few hours.  It almost makes me wonder if the hostility coming from people of his ilk indicate insecurity as to his position?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 07:56:42 AM
I'm happy to note that none of the FEers have stooped to MessierHunter's level and immediately declared victory not hearing from him for a few hours.  It almost makes me wonder if the hostility coming from people of his ilk indicate insecurity as to his position?

I'm happy to note that I was not seen posting in other threads while ignoring this one for hours on end.  It makes me wonder if FE'ers are afraid of any evidence that refutes their theory?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:05:29 AM
Here's what I got using a much more reliable method. We know (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html) the mast top is 347 feet from the ground.
Lie, bullshit, that's all you know how to do huh?  From your own link it says that the mast is 347 feet ABOVE THE PAD BASE, not the ground.  The pad base is another 42 feet above the ground.  See that big beige thing that the fixed service structure with the mast sits on?  That's the pad base, and it's 42 feet tall:
(http://i.pbase.com/g4/02/309402/2/61668757.1RTg9WCa.jpg)
Your attempt at re-analysis is therefore flawed from the start, not to mention you didn't perform it on the original full resolution files, which you could have asked for first.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:07:06 AM
I don't think his baseline numbers are right anyway.
Care to elaborate?

Your two pictures do not look to be on the same scale to me (I haven't opened them to analyze this, but that's my impression).


No shit, maybe if you bothered to read what I wrote you'd see that I offered to provide the original full resolution files for you if you wanted to reanalyze it yourself.  You convienently pretended not to see that though.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:09:13 AM
By the way, according to USGS elevation data, the riverside of titusville where i was standing has an elevation of 7 feet and the ground surrounding the south launch pad also has an elevation of 7 feet.  Topography claim debunked.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on July 02, 2008, 08:17:04 AM
Here's what I got using a much more reliable method. We know (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html) the mast top is 347 feet from the ground.
Lie, bullshit, that's all you know how to do huh?  From your own link it says that the mast is 347 feet ABOVE THE PAD BASE, not the ground.  The pad base is another 42 feet above the ground.  See that big beige thing that the fixed service structure with the mast sits on?  That's the pad base, and it's 42 feet tall:
(http://i.pbase.com/g4/02/309402/2/61668757.1RTg9WCa.jpg)
Your attempt at re-analysis is therefore flawed from the start, not to mention you didn't perform it on the original full resolution files, which you could have asked for first.

I only see reference that the flame trench is 42 feet deep. Though, the base is probably above ground level I will grant. I don't think that's sufficient to skew my results do you?
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 02, 2008, 08:19:03 AM
By the way, according to USGS elevation data, the riverside of titusville where i was standing has an elevation of 7 feet and the ground surrounding the south launch pad also has an elevation of 7 feet.  Topography claim debunked.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?
Topographic maps seem to indicate otherwise, but I'm having trouble downloading a high resolution view right now.

I would just like to point out that government maps, given the views of people on regarding the governments credibility and motives, are not going to be accepted as proof.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:30:49 AM
Here's what I got using a much more reliable method. We know (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html) the mast top is 347 feet from the ground.
Lie, bullshit, that's all you know how to do huh?  From your own link it says that the mast is 347 feet ABOVE THE PAD BASE, not the ground.  The pad base is another 42 feet above the ground.  See that big beige thing that the fixed service structure with the mast sits on?  That's the pad base, and it's 42 feet tall:
(http://i.pbase.com/g4/02/309402/2/61668757.1RTg9WCa.jpg)
Your attempt at re-analysis is therefore flawed from the start, not to mention you didn't perform it on the original full resolution files, which you could have asked for first.

I only see reference that the flame trench is 42 feet deep. Though, the base is probably above ground level I will grant. I don't think that's sufficient to skew my results do you?
Yes, it is.  Between that and the fact that you used resized images for web publication instead of the originals that I would have happily provided you with, it makes all the difference in the world.  I did the analysis with and without the pad base taken into account and came to two totally different results.  And guess what's at the bottom of the flame trench?  Ground level.  Actually, that's being generous too since there's a little bit more to go to reach ground level from the exit of the flame trench bottom as you can see from this side of a scale model:
(http://i.techrepublic.com.com/gallery/165909-500-375.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:34:52 AM
By the way, according to USGS elevation data, the riverside of titusville where i was standing has an elevation of 7 feet and the ground surrounding the south launch pad also has an elevation of 7 feet.  Topography claim debunked.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not possible the launch pad could be below sea level?
Topographic maps seem to indicate otherwise, but I'm having trouble downloading a high resolution view right now.

I would just like to point out that government maps, given the views of people on regarding the governments credibility and motives, are not going to be accepted as proof.
I don't give a fuck what you think their motives are, please enlighten us as to how one can fake a national topographic map such that everyone who tries to survey the curve of the earth will be mislead into thinking their target is at a much higher elevation than it really is, no matter where they are and no matter where their target is.  Until you prove it can be done you cannot disregard national topographic data.  Add to that fact that I was not the one to bring topography into this, your side was.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 02, 2008, 08:52:09 AM
You are exceptionally rude. Grow up please.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 08:53:06 AM
You are exceptionally rude. Grow up please.
You are exceptionally stupid.  Learn something please.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 02, 2008, 08:57:03 AM
You are exceptionally rude. Grow up please.
You are exceptionally stupid.  Learn something please.
What, like manners? Courtesy? Civility? Right.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Ski on July 02, 2008, 09:12:18 AM
Not all people were blessed with a stable and loving family, Neeman. It takes some people years to learn civility they weren't taught at home -- some never learn.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 02, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
Honestly, it's really ridiculous. I have never been anything other than polite to him.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 02, 2008, 09:33:15 AM
Here's what I got using a much more reliable method. We know (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html) the mast top is 347 feet from the ground.
Lie, bullshit, that's all you know how to do huh?  From your own link it says that the mast is 347 feet ABOVE THE PAD BASE, not the ground.  The pad base is another 42 feet above the ground.  See that big beige thing that the fixed service structure with the mast sits on?  That's the pad base, and it's 42 feet tall:
(http://i.pbase.com/g4/02/309402/2/61668757.1RTg9WCa.jpg)
Your attempt at re-analysis is therefore flawed from the start, not to mention you didn't perform it on the original full resolution files, which you could have asked for first.

Can you cite some source material to back up your claim vis a vis the pad base's dimensions?

Also, could you please make your responses more civil?  Everyone here has been very polite to you considering your tendency towards personal attacks and rudeness.  I think its safe to say that if you continue to act like a febrile child, people will begin to treat you like one.

Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 10:39:39 AM
Honestly, it's really ridiculous. I have never been anything other than polite to him.

I was content to ignore your complaint about my "government source" at first but you just had to press the issue.  So please, enlighten us as to how the pad is below sea level?  Here's the pad, note that it's right on the beach and must clearly be above sea level:
(http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm477/ngchunter/launchpad.jpg)
A 7 foot elevation doesn't seem like an unreasonable figure for this to me.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: uglykidjoe on July 02, 2008, 10:48:48 AM
Is there a reason you're unwilling to cite a source to back up your assertion about the height of the base? 
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 11:11:31 AM

Can you cite some source material to back up your claim vis a vis the pad base's dimensions?
Ski's own source contained the information needed.  The flame trench is 42 feet deep and as you can plainly see on all the pictures, the flame trench exit is near the bottom of the pad base.  Using that figure may actually be a bit generous in the sense that it probably underestimates the pad base size by a couple feet.  You can see what one of the flame trenches looks like here, and notice it's no deeper than the pad base itself:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/Texas.Nova/RgdXkqpdCoI/AAAAAAAAAUA/OqBs7rqHCPc/Flame%20Trench%202.JPG?imgmax=512)
(http://www.usembassy.org.uk/images/nasa/nasa_0727_500-300px.jpg)
The "hallways" you see at the bottom of the pad base are the exits of one of the flame trenches.  Basically ground level.
Quote
Everyone here has been very polite to you considering your tendency towards personal attacks and rudeness. 
Oh yes, because lying about the height of the launch tower to fudge my figure is SO polite.  Frankly, I don't give a d*mn how you treat me with regards to language, I place far more value on how people treat the evidence.  Since you people are so incredibly sensitive (I wonder if it's indicative of self-esteem issues; why do you care how some jerk on the internet treats you?) I'll censor my own posts in the future, not because I care what you think of me or how you personally treat me, but because I'm tired of all the whining.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: messierhunter on July 02, 2008, 11:12:24 AM
Is there a reason you're unwilling to cite a source to back up your assertion about the height of the base? 
See above, ski's own source had all the information needed for a person to figure it out.
Title: Re: Earth to be Proven Round Soon
Post by: Lord Wilmore on July 03, 2008, 01:03:27 AM
Honestly, it's really ridiculous. I have never been anything other than polite to him.

I was content to ignore your complaint about my "government source" at first but you just had to press the issue.

I was content to ignore your ignorance of reasonable self-conduct, until you added me to your list of people to be rude to for know reason. When you can behave like an adult, I'll treat you like one. I'm not in the habit of arguing with children.