The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 01:59:05 PM

Title: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 01:59:05 PM
I love conpsiracy theories. Why? They're frequently true.

Someone could come up to me and say "the entire world government is controlled my an invisibale space squid" and I would reply "I'm listening".

..but.. I would require more evidence than "theoretically dis-prooving the absence of a space-squid".
I would require some giant evidence. Something that made THEM believe.. more than just "you can't DISPROVE that tornados are caused by the space-squid!" or "if the government WAS controlled by a space squid, they would act EXACTLY like they do now!".

I've looked through these forums a bit. So far the only "evidence" of FE I've seen is "this and that RO phenomenon could theoretically be explained by FE".

Not only is there no "extraordinary" evidence for this monumental claim.. there seems to be NONE. ZERO. No actual evidence at all.
... well, there's no more evidence for FE than there is for the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Invisible Pink Unicorns.

What could possibly make a reasonable, sane person beleive something so far fetched?
Photographs from space?
Personal observation? (being in space.. impossible for most)

What evidence seems to exist?
*Photos?
We have literally hundreds of thousands (if not more) of photos from space which show the earth round.
We have.. let me see... exactly 0 photos from space which show the earth flat.
The conclusion: 100% of space photos are FAKE, and no one is able to take real photos in space.
The problem: This conclusion REQUIRES that you ALREADY firmly believe in FE! This can not be the thing that convinces you!
*Other planets?
It would appear that every other planet in the universe is round. Including those in our solar system, which we have - again - hundreds of thousands of photos of. (look on NASAs free photo archive)
The conclusion?: Not only are they fake, but many random NASA employees are in on it, along with countless people in other country's space programs.
The problem: Again, this requires you to ALREADY have a firm belief.
*God said so?
Prove it. All I see is paper. If God did say so.. and I rewrote the Bible to say the earth is a triangle.. would you know? Of course not.
It's essentially a piece of paper which says "signed by God" on it.

..so..

..to conclude..

..where's the EXTRAORDINARY hard evidence that made you believe this EXTRAORDINARY theory?
Links?*
Images?
Video?

*Links to photos or video... or a goverment offical admitting a conspiracy..not someone saying "I totally have some photos and video", or some random person saying "there's totally a conspiracy".

..Something more than "well.. planes going to the south pole could theoretically get swept through a crazy vortex to the north one" or "the curve of the Earth you see in an airplane could theoretically be caused by some optical illusion" or "the entire f*cking March of The Penguins movie could have been theoretically shot with freaking robots and I know this because it contradicts my theory".
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 02:01:06 PM
Another person wanting proof of a conspiracy. Don't people get the flaw in logic there?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:04:55 PM
I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:06:46 PM
Another person wanting proof of a conspiracy. Don't people get the flaw in logic there?

Okay fine, I don't want PROOF of a conspiracy.. that's impossible.. due to the conspiracy..

..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat, which therefore created your idea of a conspiracy, since the earth is flat, and we think it's round, so there would need to be a conspiracy.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:07:43 PM
I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?

Well, it looks flat.  So that it is round is the theory that requires extraordinary evidence.  I haven't seen evidence extraordinary enough to fit the bill.  Sorry.  :(
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:08:37 PM
...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 02:10:43 PM
I think the roundness of the earth is the extraordinary claim here.

lol

of all the random responses I could have expected.. I did not expect that.


What we started with: No idea of the shape of the earth. It looks flat at surface level, so we assumed it was.
Testing (IE space travel) showed: Holy crap, it's round. And so are all other planets in the universe. And the sun. And the freaking MOON which we can see from earth. And.. pretty much all planetary bodies.
You guys: No it's not, you're all liars and there's a giant conpsiracy.

How is the Earth being round the extraordinary claim here?
And where's my freaking evidence?
You're correct, KB. The extraordinary claim now is that the Earth is flat. Since the far-and-away accepted, scientific confidence is that the Earth is a globe, it's now up to the "minority" opinion to present extraordinary evidence to back up their claim.

Furthermore, as the RE Primer documents, the collected and reviewed evidence strongly and definitively supports that current theory.

I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:11:29 PM
...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth?  ???
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 02:15:50 PM
..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:17:25 PM
...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth?  ???

My friend "Jon Johnons" saw it at a secret government squid-watching base (which has a special telescope to see it). He says that the squid, although invisible, emits "alpha-beta-gamma waves" which propel objects away from itself and towards the Earth. To test this theory, just jump. You will be pushed downwards and away from the invisible space squid. Theory prooved! No photos required. No video required.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 02:19:33 PM
..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.
I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:19:57 PM
...for example..

..my "giant space squid conspiracy"...

..my entire "proof" could not be "you can't disprove it because there's a conspiracy!!!!"

..you need.. you know..

...actual proof.

What the hell are you talking about?  Do you have observational evidence of this giant space squid like we do of the flat earth?  ???

My friend "Jon Johnons" saw it at a secret government squid-watching base (which has a special telescope to see it). He says that the squid, although invisible, emits "alpha-beta-gamma waves" which propel objects away from itself and towards the Earth. To test this theory, just jump. You will be pushed downwards and away from the invisible space squid. Theory prooved! No photos required. No video required.

I can't help but think you were trying to apply Russell's Teapot to Flat Earth Theory.  Ain't gonna work.  The ideas are fundamentally different.

This isn't God we're talking about here.  Observing that the earth appears to be flat is something any of us can do.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: CommonCents on August 17, 2007, 02:21:50 PM
..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.
I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.

Roundy's not a FE'er, at least not as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:24:21 PM
Yeah, I was refferencing the Teapot. Yes.. the Earth does appear to be flat. And water appears to be soft - but anyone who's jumped off a bridge will disagree. Air appears to be invisible. And.. countless, countless things appear to be different than they really are.

Due to the massive, massive evidence against FE theory, it now falls on the shoulders of the vast minority (you guys) to prove it.. instead of saying "prove YOUR theory, it's the crazy one!". Even if the Earth is flat, you guys are a tiny tiny tiny minority, so it's your job to prove it.

I noticed that not one person has actually replied with evidence yet. Simply trying to .. disprove.. my.. disproving. Or something.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:27:27 PM
Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 02:28:24 PM
..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.
I suggest that FEers are generally liars looking to troll, confer Roundy and TomB, to have a life, confer dogplatter, or to bully people, confer TheEngineer.

Roundy's not a FE'er, at least not as far as I can tell.
Neither is TheEngineer, I use "confer" in the loosest meaning here. Sorry for the miscommunication. (Tip o' hat to SS)

BTW, Roundy changes his "allegiance" about weekly.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:28:53 PM
More like hourly.  ;D
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:30:31 PM
Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm)

That's a book.

"Pics or it didn't happen"
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 02:33:33 PM
"Pics or it didn't happen"

Besides that pictures can be faked, why would any space agency take pictures of the Earth if it was actually flat, and there actually was a conspiracy? Can you say, stupidity? If they are smart enough to orchestrate a conspiracy like this, they'd be smart enough to not produce evidence that can bring the whole thing crashing down.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:36:02 PM
lol.  We don't even allow photographic evidence on this website.  It's too easy to fake.

That book is the "proof" of a flat earth.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:36:58 PM
Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me. And there are just.. so many of them (hundreds of thousands?) that the chance of "f*cking one up* is extreeeemly high. But nope.. no one's noticed any huge errors in these "fake" photos yet. (not to mention the gigantic cost of creating countless fake photos and fake videos and paying off countless people.. etc)

As for flat earth photos: If there were ANY, I could make fun of how fake they are. But there aren't even any FAKE ones!!! >:(
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 02:38:40 PM
Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

lol.  That's ridiculous.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:40:27 PM
lol.  We don't even allow photographic evidence on this website.  It's too easy to fake.

lol.. you don't allow photo evidence on a site where you're attempting to prove something which can only be proved with photos...

good luck with that :p

PS: I'm not reading a damn book. Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

PPS: No one has actually replied with evidence! Still! Not even trying.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 02:40:36 PM
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?

(http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/2429/globe_west_540.jpg)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:42:26 PM
Pics can be faked.. but it's normally obvious. Fake is better than "none at all".

lol.  That's ridiculous.

I meant that if there was fake evidence, I could disprove it.

But currently.. there seems to be none. So there's nothing to disprove.

The attitude is just "I beleive it. Prove me wrong, vast majority of people. By the way all your evidence is fake."
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: socrates on August 17, 2007, 02:44:17 PM
Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:46:49 PM
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?

(img)

Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:
(http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/186559main_image_feature_893_ys_4.jpg)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:49:07 PM
Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?

...is it a photograph?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 02:50:48 PM
that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program.

True. It's part of NASA's Blue Marble Project.

Again though, how do you know what is real from space?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 02:55:34 PM
that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program.

True. It's part of NASA's Blue Marble Project.

Again though, how do you know what is real from space?

I have no idea. It could all be fake. I could be living in Cuba right now. Or the whole world could be Pangea. There's no way of knowing.

..but.. to actually BELEIVE any of these.. I would need to be convinced with evidence. It appears, so far, that FE'ers are NOT convinced with evidence.. they are convinced with.. I have no idea what.

The norm is still the norm until proved otherwise.
It is "True by default" until something proves it untrue.
(which is not the same as saying "it could be untrue and you wouldn't know")
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: socrates on August 17, 2007, 03:06:46 PM
Any real theory can be proved in a few sentences / a paragraph / a few photos. You don't need a BOOK to prove something so BASIC AND SIMPLE.

Ever hear of Martin Heidegger's Being and Time?

...is it a photograph?

No it's a book about 600 pages long in which Heidegger tries to explain what it means "To Be."
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 03:13:51 PM
There's no way of knowing.

Glad we got that cleared up.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 03:16:41 PM
There's no way of knowing.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Now all we need is actual evidence for FE..  :p
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 03:17:38 PM
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 03:21:09 PM
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?


Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:<pic>
Great picture.

A photograph becomes evidence when the chain of evidence is preserved and documented. In the case of the NASA photographs, the FEers must impugn those involved in taking and publishing the picture. They must do the same with Soviet, Russian, Japanese, ESA, Chinese, private enterprise, and privateer photographs. It's a tall order, isn't it?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 03:24:21 PM
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.

So what's the point in trying to prove anything? Or the existence of this forum?

For human discource to take place, you need some basic of level of "assumption of reality", IE we live in a real world (not the Matrix) and evidence is real if it looks real.. until proved otherwise.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 03:27:55 PM
As for round earth photos: Nope. Look damn real to me.

How do you know what a real Earth from space looks like?

Like this?


Well.. not exactly like that.. that pic is obviously compiled in photoshop or some other program. More like this:<pic>
Great picture.

A photograph becomes evidence when the chain of evidence is preserved and documented. In the case of the NASA photographs, the FEers must impugn those involved in taking and publishing the picture. They must do the same with Soviet, Russian, Japanese, ESA, Chinese, private enterprise, and privateer photographs. It's a tall order, isn't it?

Well, in the case of the earth being round, it is presumed "so incredibly obvious" that no one tries to "prove it".

If I was stinking rich (soon enough) I doubt I would/will fly a plane around the world just to prove you guys wrong.. because .. there are so few of you. It would be like trying to prove that matter is made of atoms. No one cares.

If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 03:44:26 PM
But there'd be no way of knowing if it was actually real evidence. Epistemology ftw.

So what's the point in trying to prove anything? Or the existence of this forum?

For human discource to take place, you need some basic of level of "assumption of reality", IE we live in a real world (not the Matrix) and evidence is real if it looks real.. until proved otherwise.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".
This is just divito's usual lame attempt to expand the FE versus RE debate to some philosophical debate of unrelated topics. As we keep reminding him, he should take this topic to another forum. Please ignore anyone carrying on about "how do we prove anything?". Thanks.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Agent_0042 on August 17, 2007, 03:46:24 PM
Well, in the case of the earth being round, it is presumed "so incredibly obvious" that no one tries to "prove it".
I know, I hate when that happens.

If I was stinking rich (soon enough) I doubt I would/will fly a plane around the world just to prove you guys wrong.. because .. there are so few of you.
Flying around the world wouldn't prove anything either way, so you might as well save your money, cause I doubt you'll be winning that lottery any time soon.

It would be like trying to prove that matter is made of atoms. No one cares.
Then why do you keep on posting?

If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Gulliver on August 17, 2007, 03:53:30 PM
...
If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.

There's nothing so special about the name of the forum that overturns the scientific literature and the burden of proof that it places on FE. Besides, the RE Primer holds our concerted effort to document the proof of RE and to help anyone with an open mind to recreate experiments to see with their own eyes that the Earth is a globe.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 04:04:09 PM
All hail the glorious RE Primer!
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Whispeh on August 17, 2007, 04:07:45 PM
KingBunny, I think you have made a great argument, but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 things.
1) This website is almost defiantly here just for trolls.
2) On the chance this is serious, I believe in science, therefore I believe performing experiments to gain evidence for a Theory which I will believe in until it is disproved with new evidence or it is improved with new evidence.
The point Iím making is that I am willing to believe in FE theory if I was given sufficient evidence, but I think all FE'ers will NEVER be willing to believe RE theory.
So it is pointless to argue.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 04:09:36 PM
That's about right.

Since you'll never convince anybody of anything you'll both go away now, right?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 04:11:24 PM
...
If someone DOES care.. it falls on his or her shoulders to prove their own theory.. instead of asking the REST OF US to prove OURS..
What are you talking about? These are the Flat Earth Society forums, and you chose to come on here. The burden of proof is on you, pal.

There's nothing so special about the name of the forum that overturns the scientific literature and the burden of proof that it places on FE. Besides, the RE Primer holds our concerted effort to document the proof of RE and to help anyone with an open mind to recreate experiments to see with their own eyes that the Earth is a globe.

The link is invalid.
I'm totally willing to do any sort of (reasonably easy) experiment as long as it's not retarded. As with most conspiracy theories, it would be "totally cool" if this one was real, I just haven't seen even a shred of evidence yet.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 04:14:14 PM
KingBunny, I think you have made a great argument, but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 things.
1) This website is almost defiantly here just for trolls.
2) On the chance this is serious, I believe in science, therefore I believe performing experiments to gain evidence for a Theory which I will believe in until it is disproved with new evidence or it is improved with new evidence.
The point Iím making is that I am willing to believe in FE theory if I was given sufficient evidence, but I think all FE'ers will NEVER be willing to believe RE theory.
So it is pointless to argue.


This is in the "debate" forum.. I assumed there would be someone to counter me with evidence. Apparently not. No fun. : (

But I get the point.

45% of the people on this site are trolls.
45% are just looking for tiny holes in RO to further convince themselves because there's no way they will change their minds.
10% are skeptics like me who could theoretically change their minds if someone gave them the tiniest shred of evidence.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Whispeh on August 17, 2007, 04:17:18 PM
Pretty much...
I'm just going to wait x number of years untill space flight becomes REALLY comercial, then they are all f*cked.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 04:19:51 PM
So what's the point in trying to prove anything?

That's a great question. The answer is subjective and therefore would be of great variability.

Or the existence of this forum?

You'd have to ask the creator of it. Could be anything from trying to educate people about it, could be just a place to debate the possibility of it...or they could have just wanted attention.

You need a reason to prove something fake.. everything can't be "fake by default".

You don't need a reason to prove it fake; that implies intent. I could be examining a photograph without the intent of proving it fake, and discover inconsistencies that would prove it altered, or fake.

This is just divito's usual lame attempt to expand the FE versus RE debate to some philosophical debate of unrelated topics. As we keep reminding him, he should take this topic to another forum. Please ignore anyone carrying on about "how do we prove anything?". Thanks.

I'm not attempting anything. If you have an answer to the question, I think a lot of people would be interested. You know, the whole epistemology thing.

Just like a lot of people would be interested in the pictures of Dark Matter that you claimed existed. I like how you ignore something that you're wrong about, as if you're taking the high road or something. At least I face the accusations and can admit when I make a mistake.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 04:21:54 PM
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 04:24:03 PM
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.

QFT
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 04:25:17 PM
"You don't need a reason to prove it fake; that implies intent. I could be examining a photograph without the intent of proving it fake, and discover inconsistencies that would prove it altered, or fake."

Exactly. If someone wants to point out how all of our countless space photos are fake, go nuts. Seeing a problem = a "reason" to say it is fake. But there seems to just be an "conspiracy by default" without evidence. Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

And I have no desire to plunge into the endless spiral of "the meaning of reality" right now. Again.. evidence first, result second.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 04:27:34 PM
Those percentages are way off.  There is at most one person who actually believes in a flat earth who posts here regularly.  The rest mostly just enjoy debate, even if it is about something totally mindless.  The ones who take the FE side are not trolls, nor are they believers, they are simply playing devil's advocate to spice things up.

If you want proof of something, there's always the Round Earth Society, or the RE Primer, both of which are projects of Gulliver's.  If you want enjoyable, often surprisingly stimulating debate on a topic that is not seriously questioned, this is the place to be.

Haha. I suspected as much. You seemed to be the only person who didn't go back-and-forth with opinions.. until now.

The only conspiracy is these forums ;)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 04:30:32 PM
Now you get it.  ;D
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Whispeh on August 17, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
HUZAH!!!
We can close the forums!
We are all in on it now so they are no longer needed.  ;)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 04:55:21 PM
Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

Do you have the means or will to travel into outer-space? Or to travel to the Ice Wall/Antarctica?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 05:29:07 PM
Not to mention the absence of evidence FOR flat earth.

Do you have the means or will to travel into outer-space? Or to travel to the Ice Wall/Antarctica?

Nope.
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.
I think you missed the point. ;)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: divito the truthist on August 17, 2007, 05:38:37 PM
Nope.
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.
I think you missed the point. ;)

Well, you're using the lack of evidence as some justification for lack of believability. But you can clearly see why there is no evidence. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Whispeh on August 17, 2007, 05:52:17 PM
Slightly off current topic, but I have just had an idea:
Maybe this entire forum is an experiment...
I think it proves that democracies do not work in every situation.  I mean here me are arguing over nothing.
It can be related to, say, the U.N arguing over whether to call an incident in a country "genocide" so that it warrants deploying troops there.  Everyone knows we SHOULD deploy troops, but itís so easy to just argue the toss and nothing is accomplished...

Just a thought I had anyway...
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 06:05:14 PM
Quote
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.

In Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm#page_9) Dr. Rowbotham conducts several experiments analyzing the convexity of long bodies of water.

Experiment 1 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za06.htm)
Experiment 2 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za07.htm)
Experiment 3 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za08.htm)
Experiment 4 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za09.htm)
Experiment 5 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za10.htm)
Experiment 6 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za11.htm)
Experiment 7 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za12.htm)
Experiment 8 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za13.htm)
Experiment 9 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za14.htm)
Experiment 10 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za15.htm)
Experiment 11 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za16.htm)
Experiment 12 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za17.html)
Experiment 13 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za18.htm)
Experiment 14 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za19.htm)
Experiment 15 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za20.htm)

William Carpenter's astronomical anomaly book entitled "Theoretical astronomy examined and exposed" thoroughly details the fallacies and discrepancies of Round Earth astronomy, including detailed reports of explorers observing the Pole star at 23.5 degrees beyond the equator, and the misalignment of Sigma Ocantis.

Samuel Birley Rowbotham reports observing the North Star at 23.5 degrees beyond the equator. William Carpenter includes this well known discrepancy as proof number 71 in a book entitled "A hundred proofs the earth is not a globe (http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/hundreda.html)."

Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 06:11:13 PM
Additional evidence of a Flat Earth can be found in the book Zetetic Cosmogony: Or, conclusive evidence that the earth is not a revolving-rotating-globe, but a stationary plane circle (http://books.google.com/books?id=GzkKAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA#PPP9,M1) by Thomas Winship. In this work Mr. Winship confirms for us several necessary attributes, such as the lines of latitude growing longer beyond the equator, the motion of the sun circling above the earth, the convexity of water, et cetera.

Further Flat Earth works by independent investigators include:

"The Earth is Flat" by Dr. Leo Ferarri
"Unpopular truth against popular error in reference to the shape of the earth" by Charles Morse
"The flat earth and her moulder" by Ossipoff Woofson
"The shape of the earth" by Authur V. White
"The form of the earth" by Andrew D. White
"A view from the edge; on the necessity of the flat earth" by John P. Sisk
"The true shape of the earth" by Chester M. Shippey
"Terra firma" by David W. Scott
"He knew earth is round, but his proof fell flat" by Robert J. Schadewald
"Zetetic Astronomy" by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham
"The rectangular earth" by Cyrus N. Ray
"The earth a plane" by John E. Quinlan
"Proofs (so-called) of the world's rotundity, examined in the light of facts and common sense" by the London Zetetic Society
"The earth-flattener's challenge" by Richard Proctor
"The flat earth" by Charles W. Jones
"The book of light" by Gilbert Johnson
"The persistently flat earth" by Stephen J. Gould
"Earth not a globe: scientifically, geometrically, philosophically demonstrated" by Henry J. Goudey
"Does the earth rotate?" by William Edgell
"A reparation: universal gravitation a universal fake" by Charles S. Deford
"The terrestrial plane" by Frederick H. Cook
"England's modern flatearthists" by Oswell Blakeston
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 06:14:44 PM
Nope.
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.
I think you missed the point. ;)

Well, you're using the lack of evidence as some justification for lack of believability. But you can clearly see why there is no evidence. Just doesn't make sense to me.

No, I'm using lack of evidence as justification for lack of REASON to believe.
People don't normal beleive things without evidence.
...well.. there's religion.. but as far as scientific theories go.. evidence = a reason to believe. Unless people randomly pick a belief (the earth is a triangle maybe?) and then try to prove why it can't be dis-proven, or why the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Evidence creates belief.. normally.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Jimmy Crackhorn on August 17, 2007, 06:15:49 PM
Quote
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.

In Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm#page_9) Dr. Rowbotham conducts several experiments analyzing the convexity of long bodies of water.

Experiment 1 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za06.htm)
Experiment 2 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za07.htm)
Experiment 3 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za08.htm)
Experiment 4 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za09.htm)
Experiment 5 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za10.htm)
Experiment 6 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za11.htm)
Experiment 7 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za12.htm)
Experiment 8 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za13.htm)
Experiment 9 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za14.htm)
Experiment 10 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za15.htm)
Experiment 11 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za16.htm)
Experiment 12 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za17.html)
Experiment 13 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za18.htm)
Experiment 14 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za19.htm)
Experiment 15 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za20.htm)

Interesting. Has anyone else tried these experiments besides Tom?
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 06:26:03 PM
Quote
Interesting. Has anyone else tried these experiments besides Tom?

Yep. Most FES members have proven the shape of the earth to themselves by reproducing Dr. Rowbotham's simple experiment over a nearby body of water. There is so much bias against the idea of a Flat Earth that looking at the evidence for your own eyes is absolutely necessary.

A woman named Lady Blount (http://www.zetetic.co.uk/zetetic.html) was the first to demonstrate evidence concerning the convexity of water through photography:

Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Jimmy Crackhorn on August 17, 2007, 06:28:58 PM
Quote
Interesting. Has anyone else tried these experiments besides Tom?

Yep. Most FES members have proven the shape of the earth to themselves by reproducing Dr. Rowbotham's simple experiment over a nearby body of water. There is so much bias against the idea of a Flat Earth that looking at the evidence for your own eyes is absolutely necessary.

A woman named Lady Blount (http://www.zetetic.co.uk/zetetic.html) was the first to demonstrate evidence concerning the convexity of water through photography:

    "The Old Bedford Level was the scene of further experiments over the years, until in 1904, photography was used to prove that the earth is flat. Lady Blount, a staunch believer in the zetetic method hired a photographer, Mr Cifton of Dallmeyer's who arrived at the Bedford Level with the firm's latest Photo-Telescopic camera. The apparatus was set up at one end of the clear six-mile length, while at the other end Lady Blount and some scientific gentlemen hung a large, white calico sheet over the Bedford bridge so that the bottom of it was near the water. Mr Clifton, lying down near Welney bridge with his camera lens two feet above the water level, observed by telescope the hanging of the sheet, and found that he could see the whole of it down to the bottom. This surprised him, for he was an orthodox globularist and round-earth theory said that over a distance of six miles the bottom of the sheet should bemore than 20 feet below his line of sight. His photograph showed not only the entire sheet but its reflection in the water below. That was certified in his report to Lady Blount, which concluded: "I should not like to abandon the globular theory off-hand, but, as far as this particular test is concerned, I am prepared to maintain that (unless rays of light will travel in a curved path) these six miles of water present a level surface."
And where are the photographs? I meant has anyone else on this forum besides Tom done these experiments.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 06:33:34 PM
Quote
Neither do most people. Hence the absence of evidence. Sort of like the impossible-to-disprove space-squid.

In Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm#page_9) Dr. Rowbotham conducts several experiments analyzing the convexity of long bodies of water.

Experiment 1 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za06.htm)
Experiment 2 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za07.htm)
Experiment 3 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za08.htm)
Experiment 4 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za09.htm)
Experiment 5 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za10.htm)
Experiment 6 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za11.htm)
Experiment 7 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za12.htm)
Experiment 8 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za13.htm)
Experiment 9 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za14.htm)
Experiment 10 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za15.htm)
Experiment 11 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za16.htm)
Experiment 12 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za17.html)
Experiment 13 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za18.htm)
Experiment 14 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za19.htm)
Experiment 15 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za20.htm)

Interesting. Has anyone else tried these experiments besides Tom?

According to wikipedia these unscientific tests "conducted" by random people have been tried more recently and usually with very different results.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 06:40:13 PM
Quote
And where are the photographs? I meant has anyone else on this forum besides Tom done these experiments.

Forum member Midgard provides a modern reproduction of the water-convexity tests:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=9343.msg111765#msg111765

Quote
According to wikipedia these unscientific tests "conducted" by random people have been tried more recently and usually with very different results.

Wikipedia is wrong. According to "Flat Earth: The History of an infamous idea (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-Earth-History-Infamous-Idea/dp/140504702X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-1865245-7109231?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176474041&sr=8-1)" by historian Christine Garwood the Flat Earth proponent John Hampton won the experiment on the Old Bedford Canal when the referee for the wager concluded that visual evidence across the Old Bedford Canal suggested a Flat Earth.

Also, Wikipedia references a later experiment in the very same article you are referencing which suggests a Flat Earth.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 06:47:40 PM
Quote
And where are the photographs? I meant has anyone else on this forum besides Tom done these experiments.

Forum member Midgard provides a modern reproduction of the water-convexity tests:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=9343.msg111765#msg111765

Quote
According to wikipedia these unscientific tests "conducted" by random people have been tried more recently and usually with very different results.

Wikipedia is wrong. According to "Flat Earth: The History of an infamous idea (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-Earth-History-Infamous-Idea/dp/140504702X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-1865245-7109231?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176474041&sr=8-1)" by historian Christine Garwood the Flat Earth proponent John Hampton won the experiment on the Old Bedford Canal when the referee for the wager concluded that visual evidence across the Old Bedford Canal suggested a Flat Earth.

What makes you think wikipedia is wrong, and not the pro-flat-earth book? There are books about how reptillian aliens control the world.
Apart from randam vandalism Wikipedia is normally unbiased, unlike books with agendas.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 06:52:58 PM
Quote
What makes you think wikipedia is wrong, and not the pro-flat-earth book?

Historian Christine Garwood is not a Flat Earther. Indeed, she makes it very clear at the introduction. The book is simply a historical look at the life and legacies of Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, John Hampden, William Carpenter, Lady Blount, Samuel Shenton, Dr. Leo Ferarri, and other Flat Earth proponents. Historian Christine Garwood provides an excellent starting point for anyone interested in learning more about the colorful beginnings of the Flat Earth Society.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: General Douchebag on August 17, 2007, 06:56:42 PM
Christine Garwood the Flat Earth proponent

That's the fastest self contradiction yet, Tom! At this rate, by November you'll contradict yourself in a single word! (You'll find a way)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 07:00:29 PM
Quote
That's the fastest self contradiction yet, Tom! At this rate, by November you'll contradict yourself in a single word! (You'll find a way)

John Hampden is the Flat Earth proponent in the sentence. Not Christine Garwood. Reread your source.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: General Douchebag on August 17, 2007, 07:02:13 PM
I was beaten logically by Tom Bishop. I'll never live it down. You and your damned lack of punctuation!
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 07:07:18 PM
Historian Christine Garwood provides an excellent starting point for anyone interested in learning more about the colorful beginnings of the Flat Earth Society.

I'd rather see modern, scientific evidence of a flat earth (see thread name..) but colourful history is .. okay too.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: General Douchebag on August 17, 2007, 07:11:19 PM
All you'll ever get here is history, because there is no scientific evidence. I only come here to close my eyes and slowly shake my head at the mere thought of the fantasy world Tom lives in, where Earth:Not A Globe really does have all the answers.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Midnight on August 17, 2007, 08:31:16 PM
/thread fail
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 17, 2007, 09:57:31 PM
/thread fail

I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

I think I won. I won the INTERNET.

All with my first post ever.

This just goes to prove how much I rock. (the internet)

Sorry for destroying your entire site and concept here, guys. ;)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 17, 2007, 10:15:12 PM
Quote
I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

Firstly, we have plenty of photographic evidence. Samuel Shenton once published a nice long beach shot with a telescopic camera lens, showing an image which could not be possible on a Round Earth. Likewise, on a recent thread on this very forum I have displayed a landscape of the the Toronto Skyline and calculations showing that the scene in the image is physically impossible on a Globe Earth.

Secondly, if you truly believe that truth has an expiration date, then you must logically also disregard Darwin's theory of Natural Selection (1840 A.D), Calculus (1400 A.D), Trigonometry (140 A.D), the theory of Buoyancy (280 B.C.), and so on.

Thus we wee that your ignorant view destroys most of modern science. That the concentrated prejudice you demonstrate in your post is pathetic to the extreme. There have been modern reproductions of Rowbotham's work. Dr. Leo Ferrari, Samuel Shenton, and Charles K. Johnson are all modern FES presidents who have published evidence proving beyond doubt that the Globe Earth theory is inaccurate in its predictions.

Since you are unable to accept clear evidence contradicting your world view we see that you fall in line with the other REers, that your opinion invalid, that you have chosen to plug your ears to the truth and follow media hype like a dog to the whistle.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 17, 2007, 11:09:17 PM
/thread fail

I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

I think I won. I won the INTERNET.

All with my first post ever.

This just goes to prove how much I rock. (the internet)

Sorry for destroying your entire site and concept here, guys. ;)
That's just precious.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Jimmy Crackhorn on August 17, 2007, 11:16:11 PM
/thread fail

I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

I think I won. I won the INTERNET.

All with my first post ever.

This just goes to prove how much I rock. (the internet)

Sorry for destroying your entire site and concept here, guys. ;)
Good job! Now do Christianity.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 18, 2007, 12:14:36 AM
Quote
I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

Firstly, we have plenty of photographic evidence. Samuel Shenton once published a nice long beach shot with a telescopic camera lens, showing an image which could not be possible on a Round Earth. Likewise, on a recent thread on this very forum I have displayed a landscape of the the Toronto Skyline and calculations showing that the scene in the image is physically impossible on a Globe Earth.

Secondly, if you truly believe that truth has an expiration date, then you must logically also disregard Darwin's theory of Natural Selection (1840 A.D), Calculus (1400 A.D), Trigonometry (140 A.D), the theory of Buoyancy (280 B.C.), and so on.

Thus we wee that your ignorant view destroys most of modern science. That the concentrated prejudice you demonstrate in your post is pathetic to the extreme. There have been modern reproductions of Rowbotham's work. Dr. Leo Ferrari, Samuel Shenton, and Charles K. Johnson are all modern FES presidents who have published evidence proving beyond doubt that the Globe Earth theory is inaccurate in its predictions.

Since you are unable to accept clear evidence contradicting your world view we see that you fall in line with the other REers, that your opinion invalid, that you have chosen to plug your ears to the truth and follow media hype like a dog to the whistle.

I don't think you can compare random people's experiments to Darwin, no matter how eloquently you put it. There have been many ancient experiments which fail under modern scrutiny. The experiments linked also hardly seemed scientific, and/or were conducted on much too small a scale.

I don't see any photos.. but you speak of 2. I find it unlikely that flat earthers believe the Earth is flat based on 2 photos posted on this forum.. and a simple google image search finds dozens of random people's photos showing a curve.. In the very least.. if you're going to automatically discount the countless thousands of photos from NASA and high-altitude aircraft without even looking for signs of tampering.. why assume these 2 random photos posted on a forum are real? (considering they're the only real evidence I've even heard of)

PS: What part of EXTRAORDINARY evidence don't guys get. The idea that the earth is flat, accelerating upwards, being orbited by tiny flat discs... etc, etc, etc.. it goes on.. is quite EXTRAORDINARY, whether you think so or not. Ancient (claimed) tests + 2 photos does NOT = extraordinary.

And my failing to believe 2 photos (well.. a story about 2 photos) and some ancient tests (well.. someone who claimed to have performed some ancient tests) is NOT the same as "plugging my ears from the truth".    :-\

(Considering how incredibly, unbelievably rediculous "the truth" is.. I think I'm surprisingly "open" to it)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 18, 2007, 12:19:21 AM
/thread fail

I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

I think I won. I won the INTERNET.

All with my first post ever.

This just goes to prove how much I rock. (the internet)

Sorry for destroying your entire site and concept here, guys. ;)
Good job! Now do Christianity.

Umm...

..uhhh..

..hmm..

*cough* http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ *cough*

..Actually you can't "prove" Christianity wrong any more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Russel's Teapot, Invisible Pink Unicrons, or my Gravity Emitting Space Squid. (or the flat earth, it seems..)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Jimmy Crackhorn on August 18, 2007, 12:32:03 AM
/thread fail

I didn't see any photos, videos, or non-ancient scientifically documented evidence.

I think I won. I won the INTERNET.

All with my first post ever.

This just goes to prove how much I rock. (the internet)

Sorry for destroying your entire site and concept here, guys. ;)
Good job! Now do Christianity.

Umm...

..uhhh..

..hmm..

*cough* http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ *cough*

..Actually you can't "prove" Christianity wrong any more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Russel's Teapot, Invisible Pink Unicrons, or my Gravity Emitting Space Squid. (or the flat earth, it seems..)
Well congratulations on destroying the beliefs of like two people on here. And you're effort is practically nothing compared to the Primer. My point is, you're not going to disprove anyone's belief in FE here as much as you're going to disprove Christianity.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Midnight on August 18, 2007, 01:59:59 AM
I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.

Which quite literally, and summarily, ends the debate on an intrinsic level so profound, it leaves people dead from toxic shock. There is simply no way to end the debate, and thus there is 100% zero meaning to the site, the 'society' or the arguing verbatim that goes on until the end of time.

There is no theory at all. It is an argument with no purpose, no winner, and no loser. Thus, it has no meaning. Thus, the only reason people talk on here back and forth, is because it entertains them.

I can live with that. You dipshits entertain me in spades. :-*
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Marinade on August 18, 2007, 02:54:25 AM
..but.. I want proof of why anyone would think the Earth is flat

Could be a number of reasons:

That it appears flat, therefore must be flat.
They read Earth: Not a Globe.
They are looking to be different.

And possibly many more.

I read that and the first thing I thought was or brain tumors.


Also I'm with midnight. There is much entertainment here.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 18, 2007, 08:37:09 AM
Also I'm with midnight. There is much entertainment here.

Unfortunately I think that's why most people are here.

I am reminded of the Simpsons "phone sex" thing where there were entirely men. ;)
(they didn't call it phone sex.. whatever it was supposed to be)
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Raist on August 18, 2007, 09:44:43 AM
I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.

Which quite literally, and summarily, ends the debate on an intrinsic level so profound, it leaves people dead from toxic shock. There is simply no way to end the debate, and thus there is 100% zero meaning to the site, the 'society' or the arguing verbatim that goes on until the end of time.

There is no theory at all. It is an argument with no purpose, no winner, and no loser. Thus, it has no meaning. Thus, the only reason people talk on here back and forth, is because it entertains them.

I can live with that. You dipshits entertain me in spades. :-*

mids the first time i saw your new sig i though it was an actual message. Jackass.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: KingBunny on August 18, 2007, 10:16:02 AM
I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.

Which quite literally, and summarily, ends the debate on an intrinsic level so profound, it leaves people dead from toxic shock. There is simply no way to end the debate, and thus there is 100% zero meaning to the site, the 'society' or the arguing verbatim that goes on until the end of time.

There is no theory at all. It is an argument with no purpose, no winner, and no loser. Thus, it has no meaning. Thus, the only reason people talk on here back and forth, is because it entertains them.

I can live with that. You dipshits entertain me in spades. :-*

Hehe.. "100% zero meaning".. is that like.. more than 37% zero meaning? Or is it caclulated mathamatically? IE: 37% * 0 = 0

PS: What's that disturbing little avatar of yours from? I've seen it a few times but dunno what it's from.
Title: Re: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -Carl Sagan
Post by: Midnight on August 18, 2007, 02:24:12 PM
I encourage you to continue to challenge the conspiracy theory, but only to an extent. As far as I'm concerned and as the RE Primer recommends, there is not much use in debating the conspiracy as it's not falsifiable.

Which quite literally, and summarily, ends the debate on an intrinsic level so profound, it leaves people dead from toxic shock. There is simply no way to end the debate, and thus there is 100% zero meaning to the site, the 'society' or the arguing verbatim that goes on until the end of time.

There is no theory at all. It is an argument with no purpose, no winner, and no loser. Thus, it has no meaning. Thus, the only reason people talk on here back and forth, is because it entertains them.

I can live with that. You dipshits entertain me in spades. :-*

mids the first time i saw your new sig i though it was an actual message. Jackass.

Stare into my colon of the future.  :D