The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: tehsolace on March 13, 2007, 12:39:08 PM

Title: Explain the horizon
Post by: tehsolace on March 13, 2007, 12:39:08 PM
If you've ever taken an airplane and gone to a considerable height, you can clearly see the horizon (with no obstructions) and the effect made from a round Earth, whereas the land appears to 'end' at some far distance.  Also to note: the higher you ascend, the farther you out you can see. 

If the Earth were flat, then there would be a clearer view of the distance the higher you ascend, and (even at a relatively low flying altitude) you should be able to see all the way to the ends of the Earth.

I'm posting here with an open mind, so please indulge my curiosity for your explanations of this.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 13, 2007, 12:56:58 PM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: tehsolace on March 13, 2007, 01:48:47 PM
If you took the time to read more carefully, you may notice that I never once mentioned being able to see any 'curvature'.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Miss M. on March 13, 2007, 02:42:38 PM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
To be fair, at a certain point, you're flying through cloud.

I have a problem cause where I am, from my second floor window, it looks kinda curved on the horizon...could be due to slight hills though.

What about the fact that the sky seems to be a sort of dome shape?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:05:25 PM
Hello, I am a 3rd year physics student, and I'm here to put and end to this discussion...

The reason why earth looks round from up in the sky is as follows. I'm sure you all have seen that when you put a pencil halfway in a glass of water, it appears to be broken. This is because water is denser than air and light rays bend when the density of the medium changes. This is known as the Snell Law.
Have you ever seen on airplanes' info channels the outside temperature? It goes all the way down to a few degrees, because atmosphere gets colder as you ascend. Cold air is denser than hot air - this is actually why hot air balloons fly! So, when you are looking down from a plane to the surface of the earth, you're looking through the atmosphere that gets warmer (and therefore less dense) as you descend. This causes light rays from the earth to bend and makes the surface look curved - just like the pencil in the water getting broken. It's not a sharp break as in the pencil example but a smooth curve, because the temperature and so the density changes gradually, not suddenly.

This was one of the things that fooled our ancestors into believing earth is round.  The so called "fact" really shook the religious world because it was against what was believed so far. Then, when the scientists realized they were wrong, they just decided to play along with the whole scam because if they revealed their mistake, religion would get back its power and they would lose the eternal battle. Please, think about it, it's all out there, it's the biggest scam on earth's history!
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 13, 2007, 04:08:46 PM
So explain to me with your 3rd year physics knowledge how light bending towards the Earth reduces our veiwing distance?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:14:11 PM
Oh, and about the sky being kind of dome-shaped...

Please search google images about "fish-eye" cameras. Due to the spherical shape of the corneas of their eyes, they see everything around as extremely spherical. I will not explain in detail why, but if you're interested, please google (or wiki) "spherical abberation".

Now, guess what the HUMAN cornea is shaped like? Although not as much as fishes, human cornea is also spherical, which most obviously causes spherical abberation. This problem doesn't occur in daily life because it's not effective in short distances, but when you look to the horizon or to the skies, due to the long distance, they look spherically curved...

Any other questions?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:23:09 PM
Ok now.

I dont want to lay all the scientific stuff out here, but there is an angle called "the brewster angle" in optics. It's the highest angle of incidence on a surface where refraction (or passing through) is possible. In real life examples, face a fishtank and move to a side. You'll observe that after some angle to the glass, you can't see through it! You cant see the fishes in the tank although you can see the side as if it was a mirror. This is that angle I was telling you about.

Now, back to the earth. Looking to earths surface, you can see up to some angle. But after that, the gradually increasing atmosphere density causes the same affect with a fishtank, and starts reflecting. After that point, you just see the reflected sky...
If interested, study "mirages". They occur in hot places. They are actually reflections of the sky. Pretty much the same thing...
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 13, 2007, 04:24:58 PM
Light bending towards the surface would let you see further.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 13, 2007, 04:25:52 PM
So you're saying that the atmosphere can cause total internal reflection with no medium barrier?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:31:04 PM
of course

mirages are the perfect example...

http://www.goalfinder.com/product.asp?productid=40
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/atmosphere/mirage_inf_diagram.gif

as you can see, too much heat gradient can actually do that. A medium barrier is not necessary if the heat difference is high enough.

and another link for fisheye view:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q=fisheye&btnG=Search

Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:34:48 PM
Light bending towards the surface would let you see further.

and as hotter means less dense, light is actually bending away from the surface... eventually reflecting completely...
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 13, 2007, 04:34:57 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that light bending down causes us to see further not less further.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 04:50:42 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that light bending down causes us to see further not less further.

just look a few posts up... It doesnt bend DOWN it bends UP..
or actually, light comes FROM the earth TO the plane in which it bends UP and never reaches the plane unless it's source is close to the plane...
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: WasteofHumans on March 13, 2007, 04:52:52 PM
you talk about the observation of the earth from a human eye point of view, still though, what about ships passing through the horizon and their hulls disappearing first? does this have to do w/light refraction as well? because .. it doesn't lol
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 13, 2007, 05:02:48 PM
you talk about the observation of the earth from a human eye point of view, still though, what about ships passing through the horizon and their hulls disappearing first? does this have to do w/light refraction as well? because .. it doesn't lol

oh thats just simple illusion. Like in those tricky drawings such as:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CafeWallIllusion_1000.gif

and scientifically:
Every observation instrument (eye, cameras, even telescopes) have a "resolution" based on the "raleigh criterion" (not sure about the spelling).  It tells about the minimum angular separation the instrument can resolve. It is not related to the magnification or anything, but because of "diffraction" occurring in the instrument (i.e in the pupil of the eye or the diaphragm of the camera). It prevents us from separating two things too close to each other.
When the ship is far enough, You can't separate its body from the sea because they're too close together, but you can separate its top from the sea. That's basically it...
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: WasteofHumans on March 13, 2007, 05:09:56 PM
i'm sorry but it's not an illusion .. you have no base for it .. and just because the ship is at teh EXACT point of being far enough away for our eyes to deceive us, this ultimately has to be the explanation of why the hull disappears before the mast ?? it's not an illusion, it steadily sails away and disappears just as slowly
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 13, 2007, 05:18:23 PM
Light bends towards Earth as it passes through the atmosphere. The denser the air the more it bends. Even in the least dense of air it will still bend towards Earth.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: FücktardsTheEarthBeRound on March 13, 2007, 07:03:24 PM
Oh, and about the sky being kind of dome-shaped...

Please search google images about "fish-eye" cameras. Due to the spherical shape of the corneas of their eyes, they see everything around as extremely spherical. I will not explain in detail why, but if you're interested, please google (or wiki) "spherical abberation".

Now, guess what the HUMAN cornea is shaped like? Although not as much as fishes, human cornea is also spherical, which most obviously causes spherical abberation. This problem doesn't occur in daily life because it's not effective in short distances, but when you look to the horizon or to the skies, due to the long distance, they look spherically curved...

Any other questions?

With all due respect, I don't think you've ever seen a picture taken by a fish-eye camera.  We don't see anything like them, regardless of distance.  Please gtfo nao.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Franc T., Planar on March 14, 2007, 05:59:50 AM
If you've ever taken an airplane and gone to a considerable height, you can clearly see the horizon (with no obstructions) and the effect made from a round Earth, whereas the land appears to 'end' at some far distance.  Also to note: the higher you ascend, the farther you out you can see. 

If the Earth were flat, then there would be a clearer view of the distance the higher you ascend, and (even at a relatively low flying altitude) you should be able to see all the way to the ends of the Earth.

I'm posting here with an open mind, so please indulge my curiosity for your explanations of this.

Believing is seeing. I don't see any horizon.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 14, 2007, 06:00:19 AM
what makes you think that you're in any way better than a FISH? The similarity is even more obvious with you...

I didnt say it's exactly like them, I said its similar to that... Just google spherical abberation and you'll see.
Dont confront me without knowing any science! Gosh!
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Wendy on March 14, 2007, 06:59:29 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.

True. I flew once too, and I did not see a large difference in altitude, but, I did not see an 'ice wall' either.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 14, 2007, 08:44:09 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.

True. I flew once too, and I did not see a large difference in altitude
It's amazing your plane did not crash into anything!!
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 14, 2007, 08:46:49 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.

True. I flew once too, and I did not see a large difference in altitude, but, I did not see an 'ice wall' either.

Are you sure you flew and were not just, like, in a car?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: m888 on March 14, 2007, 09:14:10 AM
If you've ever taken an airplane and gone to a considerable height, you can clearly see the horizon (with no obstructions) and the effect made from a round Earth, whereas the land appears to 'end' at some far distance.  Also to note: the higher you ascend, the farther you out you can see. 

If the Earth were flat, then there would be a clearer view of the distance the higher you ascend, and (even at a relatively low flying altitude) you should be able to see all the way to the ends of the Earth.

I'm posting here with an open mind, so please indulge my curiosity for your explanations of this.

Believing is seeing. I don't see any horizon.



You said this in another topic somewhere. But seriously just think about what you're saying for a minute there. You're saying that if we believe in something then we can see basically anything we like... This is heavilly going against the laws of science.

We see stuff because the photons are reflected off it and into our eyes. Our brain processes them and we can see stuff. Just because you want to see something can't change the light that you see.

(Yes, I know this isn't very well explained but you see what I mean.)
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Franc T., Planar on March 14, 2007, 06:16:04 PM
If you've ever taken an airplane and gone to a considerable height, you can clearly see the horizon (with no obstructions) and the effect made from a round Earth, whereas the land appears to 'end' at some far distance.  Also to note: the higher you ascend, the farther you out you can see. 

If the Earth were flat, then there would be a clearer view of the distance the higher you ascend, and (even at a relatively low flying altitude) you should be able to see all the way to the ends of the Earth.

I'm posting here with an open mind, so please indulge my curiosity for your explanations of this.

Believing is seeing. I don't see any horizon.



You said this in another topic somewhere. But seriously just think about what you're saying for a minute there. You're saying that if we believe in something then we can see basically anything we like... This is heavilly going against the laws of science.

We see stuff because the photons are reflected off it and into our eyes. Our brain processes them and we can see stuff. Just because you want to see something can't change the light that you see.

(Yes, I know this isn't very well explained but you see what I mean.)

Obviously the fact that our beliefs interfere with proper evaluation has nothing to do with the fact that photons reach our eye. Thanks for the physics 101 course, though. I needed a refresher, you know, given that I had FIVE YEARS OF PHYSICS.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: m888 on March 15, 2007, 01:39:36 AM
your beliefs blatantly won't interfere with what you see. Plenty of people believed Santa Claus was real until they sat up all night and didn't see him.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: physics_guy on March 15, 2007, 06:14:06 AM
your beliefs blatantly won't interfere with what you see. Plenty of people believed Santa Claus was real until they sat up all night and didn't see him.

and what about all those who really believed in santa and actually saw him that night?
Are you denying that the only reason adults can't see santa is because santa becomes invisible to those who dont believe in them?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Wendy on March 15, 2007, 06:36:27 AM
your beliefs blatantly won't interfere with what you see. Plenty of people believed Santa Claus was real until they sat up all night and didn't see him.

and what about all those who really believed in santa and actually saw him that night?
Are you denying that the only reason adults can't see santa is because santa becomes invisible to those who dont believe in them?

Althoug I don't believe in santa  (::)) or the flat earth, I have to agree with phys boy over there. I know some christians who are so set into their beliefs that they actually believe that they saw God on one occassion or another.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: geekcorerob on March 15, 2007, 08:44:14 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
try staying awake and don't watch the crappy movie.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 09:35:18 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
try staying awake and don't watch the crappy movie.
If I fell asleep, everybody on the plane would be in trouble!
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 09:48:57 AM
I fly all the time and have yet to witness this 'curvature'.
try staying awake and don't watch the crappy movie.
If I fell asleep, everybody on the plane would be in trouble!
Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
(http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0704/062804spaceshipone.jpg)
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 09:50:47 AM

Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

No.

Quote
In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
Too bad Scaled Composites is in the pocket of the government.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 09:53:44 AM

Do you fly a commercial jet? In that case it is easy to see the curvature of the earth.

No.
(http://epod.usra.edu/archive/images/main_100_2714.jpg)
Yes. Yes it is.
Quote
Quote
In SpaceShipOne it is even more obvious
Too bad Scaled Composites is in the pocket of the government.
Wouldn't that suit your cause perfectly if it were. You failed to remember SSO was a private effort, designed to prove that you don't need NASA to get into space.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 10:36:03 AM
Who do you think built SSO? 

Scaled Composites.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: WasteofHumans on March 15, 2007, 10:39:34 AM
lol, so nasa has to photoshop ALL photos of the horizon now ? wow, that's pretty huge .. this picture clearly shows a curve in the horizon
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 15, 2007, 11:08:02 AM
Ask anyone who flew on Concorde. I've read lots of accounts of those passengers seeing the curve from aroun 50k feet which was the altitude Concorde flew at. No the windows were not fish-eyed.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 11:13:04 AM
Who do you think built SSO? 

Scaled Composites.
And Scaled Composites is a private business. What is your point?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 11:19:42 AM
Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 15, 2007, 11:21:09 AM
The government isn't in on the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 11:22:20 AM
Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
No. They are a private business. They have contracts with Virgin and i am sure others, but they are definitely a private entity.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 11:25:35 AM
Which is a government contractor.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 11:33:19 AM
Which is a government contractor.
What who? I just told you Scaled Composites is a private business.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 11:34:53 AM
Do you even know what a government contractor is?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 11:39:32 AM
Do you even know what a government contractor is?
If you are a government contractor you are doing business with, or working for the government under one or more contracts.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 11:55:27 AM
Good job.  Now, I say again, Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 12:42:25 PM
Good job.  Now, I say again, Scaled Composites is a government contractor.
Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 15, 2007, 01:03:14 PM
Quote
Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.

Scaled Composites has private and Government contracts. That doesn't make them any less of a Government contractor, however.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 01:06:55 PM
Quote
Scaled Composites is a private contractor, unless you can prove it has government contracts.

Scaled Composites has private and Government contracts. That doesn't make them any less of a Government contractor, however.
Oh? As far as I know they have not publically announced any contracts with the government. I know they have contracts elsewhere, but only because I have heard it from an article, their website or a documentary.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 01:13:59 PM
Unlike RE'ers, I can back up claims I make.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
Quote
The ARES, Scaled Model 151, was designed initially in response to a U.S. Army request for a Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft (LCBAA). A design study was performed by Rutan Aircraft Factory in 1981 for such an aircraft. The original LCBAA design was for a pusher turboprop aircraft, of generally the same aerodynamic configuration you see here. It also was designed around a 30mm chain gun. Its mission goals were low-altitude, close air support, with long endurance, and with adequate field performance to operate from roads. Its structure and systems were simple enough to be maintained and repaired in the field.

Scaled followed up with the concept, and ultimately decided to build a demonstrator aircraft with internal funds. By the time construction started in 1986, the design had evolved to the current configuration: a single Pratt and Whitney Canada JT15D-5 turbofan engine (same as in the Beechjet / T-1A Jayhawk), and a GAU-12/U 25mm gatling gun.

The ARES first flew on February 19, 1990, with Scaled test pilot Doug Shane at the controls. Since that first flight, the ARES has flown more than 250 hours, and demonstrated all of its design performance and handling qualities goals, including departure-free handling at full aft stick. During November of 1991, under a contract from the U.S. Air Force, initial ground and flight (air-air and air-ground) tests of the GAU-12/U gun system installed in ARES were performed, with outstanding results.
Quote
In 1989 Scaled Composites was approached by the Northrop Corporation for the structural design and fabrication of a Radar Cross Section (RCS) model of the B-2 aircraft. There was considerable concern over making a large enough RCS model to ensure accurate full scale fidelity while trying to remain within the weight and gust load limits of the measuring facility. A 4/10 scale model (with a resulting wingspan of about 70 ft) was believed to be the optimum size for accurate measurement. The model would have to be disassembled into sections for crating and shipment from the fabrication facility to the test site, and would have to be easily reassembled on site while maintaining the step and gap tolerances required for testing. The model would also require representative engine inlets and outlets and top and bottom rotator assemblies.
Quote
Scaled also designed, developed, and tested all Raptor flight controls, including autopilot, autonomous navigation, and emergency recovery systems.

The first flight of the Raptor occurred April 27, 1993, just ten months after contract award. Funds expended at this point were only about $800,000. During its flight tests, the Raptor verified its low-altitude performance, structural integrity, and control system operations.

In 1995, the Raptor program was transferred to NASA under the Environmental Research Aircraft and Sensor Technology program as a flying testbed for technologies applicable to future high altitude UAVs (www.erast.com).
Quote
In 1991 Scaled Composites was selected by McDonnell Douglas Aerospace for the SDIO Single Stage to Orbit demonstrator program. MDA proposed a lightweight 1/3 scale proof of concept (POC) demonstrator vehicle to validate the rocket powered vertical take off and landing concept.
Scaled was tasked with building the structural aeroshell and aerodynamic control surfaces. The DC-X aeroshell has a height of 62 feet and a maximum width of 15 feet at the base. Four large hydraulically-actuated flap sections are incorporated into the aeroshell for aerodynamic control during reentry and landing. A removable nose cone houses the emergency parachute recovery system. Also incorporated into the aeroshell was a "finger ring" used to restrain and stabilize the fuel tanks during temperature induced expansion and contraction cycles. The retractable landing gear are mounted to the aeroshell structure and all landing gear loads are reacted through the aeroshell. This structural philosophy would benefit the overall vehicle both in weight and complexity. Scaled employed low cost tooling methods for fabrication of the DC-X structure. A 1/4 fuselage section male plug was fabricated from the loft lines supplied by MDA. A single female tool was fabricated from the male plug, and the four graphite/epoxy sandwich panel sections were fabricated in the female tool. The sections were installed in an assembly fixture and bonded together using in-place graphite/epoxy laminates. The landing gear receptacles, flap mechanisms and servos were then added. The materials and structural design of the sandwich panel proved to be capable of maintaining structural integrity under the extreme conditions of the operating environment.
Quote
Last fall under a competitive procurement program among jet engine companies, NASA selected Williams International to join NASA in a $100 million cooperative effort...Williams also revealed today it contracted with Burt Rutan's Scaled Composites organization to start with the Williams preliminary design, to conduct the V-JET II" detailed design and analysis, and to manufacture the prototype "V-JET II" (that will fly in to the Oshkosh show).
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 01:27:55 PM
As far as I can see three of those involved the government. The ARES, once they got to gun and flight tests were under contract from the Air force. This was however long after the prototype had been made and built. The Raptor flight control program was transferred to NASA in 1995, long after it had been designed, developed and tested by SC. In your last quote it was a competitive effort which Williams International won, and they in turn contracted SC to start with preliminary designs.

On the topic at hand though, which part of these contracts make SSO's flight pictures incorrect?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 01:39:47 PM
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: The Communist on March 15, 2007, 02:23:11 PM
you talk about the observation of the earth from a human eye point of view, still though, what about ships passing through the horizon and their hulls disappearing first? does this have to do w/light refraction as well? because .. it doesn't lol

oh thats just simple illusion. Like in those tricky drawings such as:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CafeWallIllusion_1000.gif

That's an illusion? All I see are boxes and parallel lines
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Franc T., Planar on March 15, 2007, 02:25:03 PM
This image explains the so-called "horizon":

(http://www.uncg.edu/%7Ewhanthon/optical_illusions_aug05/mobius.gif)
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: The Communist on March 15, 2007, 02:29:16 PM
This image explains the so-called "horizon":

(http://www.uncg.edu/%7Ewhanthon/optical_illusions_aug05/mobius.gif)

Please explain.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 15, 2007, 03:00:04 PM
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.

Do you smoke alot of weed by any chance?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 03:08:51 PM
Never even tried it.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 15, 2007, 03:09:16 PM
Just trying to work out where your paranoia comes from.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 04:05:29 PM
It makes them quite suspect, as they are a government contractor.
No. Not unless you are paranoid.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 05:09:18 PM
Paranoid or not, they still work for the government.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: The Communist on March 15, 2007, 05:14:03 PM
Paranoid or not, they still work for the government.

I thought the government was not part of the conspiracy.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 15, 2007, 05:21:45 PM
I lose track of who is and who isn't in on the conspiracy. It seems it changes depending on the argument.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 05:23:56 PM
Paranoid or not, they still work for the government.
Being under contract with and working for are not necessarily the same thing. Working under contract with the air force in order to test a design is not what I would called working for the government.
You are really paranoid.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: TheEngineer on March 15, 2007, 06:14:33 PM
If they want more contracts, they better do as the government says.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: rolli on March 15, 2007, 06:15:07 PM
If they want more contracts, they better do as the government says.

If they wanted more money, they could go to the press.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 15, 2007, 06:35:13 PM
Quote
If they wanted more money, they could go to the press.

Do you think the press would believe someone claiming that the world was flat?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: rolli on March 15, 2007, 06:37:47 PM
Quote
If they wanted more money, they could go to the press.

Do you think the press would believe someone claiming that the world was flat?

If no one will believe it, then why does anyone need to be paid off?

If they brought factual information to the press, could actually prove it, and showed the conspiracy, I think the press might believe it.

Have you ever heard of anyone claiming the earth was flat, that worked for NASA?  That worked for any government company?
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Matrixfart on March 15, 2007, 06:49:42 PM
Quote
If they wanted more money, they could go to the press.

Do you think the press would believe someone claiming that the world was flat?
No. Everyone knows this is biblical nonsense.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Geordi la Forge on March 15, 2007, 09:46:55 PM
Quote
If they wanted more money, they could go to the press.

Do you think the press would believe someone claiming that the world was flat?

The tabloids would believe anything.
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: joeb on March 15, 2007, 10:40:32 PM
Quote
Do you think the press would believe someone claiming that the world was flat?

Of course not!  Only stupid people would belive such a thing!

(Sorry, I know I'm not helping the conversation, but I really wanted to say that)
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Kasroa Is Gone on March 16, 2007, 03:32:38 AM
There is no conspiracy. I can prove it simply by saying it (Going along with FE logic).
Title: Re: Explain the horizon
Post by: Stray on March 17, 2007, 11:57:18 AM
Hello, I am a 3rd year physics student, and I'm here to put and end to this discussion...

The reason why earth looks round from up in the sky is as follows. I'm sure you all have seen that when you put a pencil halfway in a glass of water, it appears to be broken. This is because water is denser than air and light rays bend when the density of the medium changes. This is known as the Snell Law.
Have you ever seen on airplanes' info channels the outside temperature? It goes all the way down to a few degrees, because atmosphere gets colder as you ascend. Cold air is denser than hot air - this is actually why hot air balloons fly! So, when you are looking down from a plane to the surface of the earth, you're looking through the atmosphere that gets warmer (and therefore less dense) as you descend. This causes light rays from the earth to bend and makes the surface look curved - just like the pencil in the water getting broken. It's not a sharp break as in the pencil example but a smooth curve, because the temperature and so the density changes gradually, not suddenly.
This notion is very entertaining, but you haven't explained some important things:
-how severe is the refraction of light through air within reasonable temperature perimeters?
-what of high pressure/low pressure currents in the air? If what you say is true, and air refracts light so severely, then we should be able to see high pressure/low pressure currents clearly distort the horizon. Yet we don't.

This was one of the things that fooled our ancestors into believing earth is round.  The so called "fact" really shook the religious world because it was against what was believed so far. Then, when the scientists realized they were wrong, they just decided to play along with the whole scam because if they revealed their mistake, religion would get back its power and they would lose the eternal battle. Please, think about it, it's all out there, it's the biggest scam on earth's history!
Utterly rediculous.
1) Religion already has alot of power.
2) Such a scam can never be maintained. Science is self-correcting.  All scientific knowledge is constantly being tested and retested. If a hypothesis or a theory does not stand up to scrutiny now, or later, it will be discarded for a new one that fits better. The flat geocentric earth is one such hypothesis that was discarded in light of overwhelming evidence.

what makes you think that you're in any way better than a FISH? The similarity is even more obvious with you...
I didnt say it's exactly like them, I said its similar to that... Just google spherical abberation and you'll see.
Dont confront me without knowing any science! Gosh!
If we saw only how our eyes picked up light, everything would be upside-down and in individual "pictures". The brain compensates for the spherical abberation our eyes feed us. The brain is also capable of meshing together the individual signal transmissions from our nerve cells, so that we see everything in movement rather than in single "pictures".