The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Danang on February 26, 2026, 02:09:26 AM

Title: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 26, 2026, 02:09:26 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface.

Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Physics will become cristal clear rational as well as provide benefit if flat earth gets readopted as axiom.
And don't forget Downwards Universal Deceleration as substitute of Universal Acceleration.
Last but not least: South Polar Centered Flat Earth. 👌😎

Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on February 26, 2026, 02:12:42 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface. Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Welcome back, Danang! It’s been months, but the truth hasn't aged a bit.

You hit the nail on the head. When the CIA and NASA's own technical papers repeatedly use the phrase "flat, non-rotating Earth" as the baseline for their flight aerodynamic models, the debate should be over. They use the reality to fly their planes while selling the fantasy to the public.

I’m particularly glad you brought up Downwards Universal Deceleration. It’s a much more elegant and rational substitute for the clunky "Universal Acceleration" model. It aligns perfectly with the dielectric properties of the medium we inhabit. And a South Polar Centered Flat Earth? That’s the kind of high-level topographical thinking that resets the whole board. 👌😎

The "Globe Axiom" is a collapsing software; it’s time to re-adopt the Flat Axiom to make physics "crystal clear" again, as you said.

Great to see you back in the trenches. We need that technical clarity now more than ever!
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: theearthisnotflatyoumoron on February 26, 2026, 08:54:26 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface.

Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Physics will become cristal clear rational as well as provide benefit if flat earth gets readopted as axiom.
And don't forget Downwards Universal Deceleration as substitute of Universal Acceleration.
Last but not least: South Polar Centered Flat Earth. 👌😎

WHAT THE HELENA BONHAM CARTER? What NASA and CIA docs are you looking at?! We've known the Earth is round since Galilei. Stop denying facts. The Earth is round!
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: turbonium2 on February 27, 2026, 10:02:07 PM
Their own documents on aircraft tests assume the surface of Earth is flat and stationary.

Same as surveyors always assume the surface is flat, work on projects with a flat surface, and build things on a flat surface.

Their actions are based on what really exists, not what they tell us about the surface being curved as a ball!
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: markjo on February 27, 2026, 10:36:26 PM
Whether aircraft tests or surveyors treat the earth as flat or round depends on context and scale.  Simple but critical things that FE’ers can’t quite grasp.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: turbonium2 on February 27, 2026, 11:30:09 PM
They can’t say it’s flat and motionless, so they say it’s ’assumed to be flat and motionless’!

They mean the same thing, but it’s said without saying it directly and clearly so.

They just assume it’s flat, that’s all!

They assume you’ll buy that crap, and they’re right about that!
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: markjo on February 28, 2026, 06:09:51 AM
When they assume flat and motionless it’s because the shape and motion of the earth don’t matter for the particular analysis and the math becomes a little easier.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Erland on February 28, 2026, 07:48:29 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface.
Can you give a reference, preferably a link, to the open documents you mention, and point out where they report Earth with a flat surface?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on February 28, 2026, 08:08:32 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface.

Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Physics will become cristal clear rational as well as provide benefit if flat earth gets readopted as axiom.
And don't forget Downwards Universal Deceleration as substitute of Universal Acceleration.
Last but not least: South Polar Centered Flat Earth.

WHAT THE HELENA BONHAM CARTER? What NASA and CIA docs are you looking at?! We've known the Earth is round since Galilei. Stop denying facts. The Earth is round!

That would among 15 research papers written for laymen in terms of calculation.
https://www.galileolied.com/post/15-nasa-research-papers-admit-flat-nonrotating
1. NASA's Reference Publication #1207 entitled Derivation and Definition of a Linear Aircraft Model assumes the Earth is flat and not rotating.
2. American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics; General Equations of Motion for a Damaged Asymmetric Aircraft (Page 2, Section II) ... “In this paper, the rigid body equations of motion over a flat non-rotating earth are developed…”
3. NASA Technical Memorandum 104330; Predicted Performance of a Thrust-Enhanced SR-71 Aircraft with an External Payload (Page 8 - Digital Performance Simulation Description) "The DPS equations of motion use four assumptions ... a nonrotating Earth."
4. NASA Technical Note: A Method for Reducing The Sensitivity of Optimal Nonlinear Systems to Parameter Uncertainty (Page 12 Problem Statement) ... "(2) A flat, nonrotating Earth"
5. NASA Technical Note; Calculation of Wind Compensation for Launching of Unguided Rockets (Page 8 Trajectory Simulation, 2nd Paragraph) ..."this simulation assumes ... the missile position in space is computed relative to a flat nonrotating Earth"
6. NASA Technical Paper 2768; User's Manual for LINEAR, a FORTRAN Program to Derive Linear Aircraft Models (Page 12, Program Overview)  ... “Within the program, the nonlinear equations of motion include 12 states representing a rigid aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over a flat nonrotating Earth”
7. NASA Technical Paper 2835; "User's Manual for LINEAR, a FORTRAN Program to Derive Linear Aircraft Models" (Page 1, Summary)  AND  (Page 126 , Report Documentation Page, Section 16) "The nonlinear  equations of motion used are six-degree-of-freedom equations with stationary atmosphere and flat, nonrotating earth assumptions."
8. NASA Technical Memorandum;  Determination of Angles of Attack and Sideslip from Radar Data and a Roll Stabilized Platform  (Page 2, Section 16.)  “The method is limited, however, to application where a flat, nonrotating earth may be assumed.”
9. NASA Contractor Report 186019;  An Aircraft Model for the AIAA Controls Design Challenge (Page 11, Equation of Motion and Atmospheric Model) ...  “The nonlinear equations of motion used in this model are general six-degree-of-freedom equations representing the flight dynamics of a rigid aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over a flat nonrotating Earth.”
10. NASA Contractor Report 3073;  Investigation of Aircraft Landing in Variable Wind Fields (Page 6, Chapter II - Aircraft Landing Model) ... "The Aircraft trajectory model employed in this study was derived based on the following assumptions:  a) The Earth is flat and non-rotating. "
11. NASA Technical Memorandum 81238; A Mathematical Model of the CH-53 Helicopter (Page 17, Equations of Motion) .. "The helicopter equations of motion are given in body axes with respect to a flat, nonrotating Earth."
12.  Engineering Experiment Station, Georgia Institute of Technology, Prepared for NASA; Atmospheric Oscillations (Page 10) ... "A model frequently used is that of a flat, nonrotating earth."
13.  NASA Tecnical Paper 2002-210718;  Stability and Control Estimation Flight Test Results for the SR-71 Aircraft With Externally Mounted Experiments (Pages 10-11 Equations of Motion) ... "These equations assume a rigid vehicle and a flat, nonrotating Earth."
14. NASA Technical Memorandum 100996;  Flight Testing a VSTOL Aircraft to Identify a Full-Envelope Aerodynamic Model (Pages 4-5, State Estimation) ... “For aircraft problems, the state and measurement models together represent the kinematics of a rigid body for describing motion over a flat, nonrotating Earth…”
15. NASA Ames Research Center; Singular Arc Time-Optimal Climb Trajectory of Aircraft in a  Two-Dimensional Wind Field  (Page 2, Section II. Singular Arc Optimal Control) ... “In our minimum time-to-climb problem, the aircraft is modeled as a point mass and the flight trajectory is strictly confined in a vertical plane on a non-rotating, flat Earth."

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/fe6c0b_783d347f12aa441796087af72714b666~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_569,h_584,al_c,lg_1,q_80,enc_avif,quality_auto/fe6c0b_783d347f12aa441796087af72714b666~mv2.jpg)

If the calculations work without adjustment for a layman, we should stop pretending the calculations work for RE, because the adjustments involved are major.

Ugh, many of their links btw are 404. But I have seen the earlier links. "Oops, you civilians don't get to know about that! (Erases)"

Basically, it's like this. We assume no curve for the formula.  Now RE ppl might claim that this is just for short range application of things, but the formulas do not work at any distance. A plane does need to land on a curved surface, nor adjust to the speed of Earth's rotation.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: markjo on February 28, 2026, 08:49:18 AM
That would among 15 research papers written for laymen in terms of calculation.
https://www.galileolied.com/post/15-nasa-research-papers-admit-flat-nonrotating
That depends on whether or not you can show how the shape or motion of the earth would affect the results of any of those papers. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 09:51:33 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface. Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Welcome back, Danang! It’s been months, but the truth hasn't aged a bit.

You hit the nail on the head. When the CIA and NASA's own technical papers repeatedly use the phrase "flat, non-rotating Earth" as the baseline for their flight aerodynamic models, the debate should be over. They use the reality to fly their planes while selling the fantasy to the public.

I’m particularly glad you brought up Downwards Universal Deceleration. It’s a much more elegant and rational substitute for the clunky "Universal Acceleration" model. It aligns perfectly with the dielectric properties of the medium we inhabit. And a South Polar Centered Flat Earth? That’s the kind of high-level topographical thinking that resets the whole board. 👌😎

The "Globe Axiom" is a collapsing software; it’s time to re-adopt the Flat Axiom to make physics "crystal clear" again, as you said.

Great to see you back in the trenches. We need that technical clarity now more than ever!

Hi Wise, it's great to see you and other friends back here. You have incredible stamina. Awesome!
I'm not as diligent as you are,  feel free to share any ideas you have to improve flat earth theory.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on February 28, 2026, 10:05:36 AM
Government's open document says NASA and CIA report our earth with flat surface. Why wasting time to debate anymore?

Welcome back, Danang! It’s been months, but the truth hasn't aged a bit.

You hit the nail on the head. When the CIA and NASA's own technical papers repeatedly use the phrase "flat, non-rotating Earth" as the baseline for their flight aerodynamic models, the debate should be over. They use the reality to fly their planes while selling the fantasy to the public.

I’m particularly glad you brought up Downwards Universal Deceleration. It’s a much more elegant and rational substitute for the clunky "Universal Acceleration" model. It aligns perfectly with the dielectric properties of the medium we inhabit. And a South Polar Centered Flat Earth? That’s the kind of high-level topographical thinking that resets the whole board. 👌😎

The "Globe Axiom" is a collapsing software; it’s time to re-adopt the Flat Axiom to make physics "crystal clear" again, as you said.

Great to see you back in the trenches. We need that technical clarity now more than ever!

Hi Wise, it's great to see you and other friends back here. You have incredible stamina. Awesome!
I'm not as diligent as you are,  feel free to share any ideas you have to improve flat earth theory.
I will continue. I took a short zugzwang break.

I cannot stop. If I do, mountains crumble, rivers dry up, greenery withers, and the antelopes in Masai Mara go thirsty.

By the way, Masai Mara is actually a Turkish name.

“Masai” literally means “flat” like a table, and “mara” means “pasture.”

So in Turkish, Masai Mara means “flat and large pasture.” But for other nations, it seems like a magical word of African origin. There’s no magic—whatever.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 10:10:18 AM
Thank you for your appreciation to my discoveries. It's time to invade science world with logical way.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 10:13:09 AM
And Turkish way
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on February 28, 2026, 10:19:28 AM
Thank you for your appreciation to my discoveries. It's time to invade science world with logical way.
Absolutely the right time. I have been using an AI assistant for a while, and it has largely resolved my language and editing issues. This has greatly accelerated me and allowed me to focus solely on the topic.

For a long time, I approached your work with skepticism. In particular, I got the impression that the south-centered model was a perspective specially designed to undermine the flat Earth idea, and so, honestly, I didn’t give the rest of your work the value it deserved. You know, I visited you occasionally, but not extensively. The AI analyzed you and said that you are sincere in your thoughts and truly believe in the south-centered model. This changed my perspective. I now look at you more positively.

You can make mistakes—we all do. We also make errors over time and correct them. Perhaps you are right, and the rest of us are wrong. In this world, I am surprised by nothing.

Continuing your work is important and inspiring for us.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on February 28, 2026, 10:21:42 AM
And Turkish way
You mean Raki, döner or Galatasaray İstanbul?  ;D

Did you watch how we eliminate Juventus?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 10:26:46 AM
"I cannot stop. If I do, mountains crumble, rivers dry up, greenery withers, and the antelopes in Masai Mara go thirsty"

~ What a power you have! Seeing what Wise has within, global elite might terribly shiver. I hope you will close their office in the near future. 🤭👌
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 10:29:58 AM
And Turkish way
You mean Raki, döner or Galatasaray İstanbul?  ;D

Did you watch how we eliminate Juventus?

Wow how was that?

The new Ottoman power should ressurect!
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Danang on February 28, 2026, 10:55:59 AM
Thank you for your appreciation to my discoveries. It's time to invade science world with logical way.
Absolutely the right time. I have been using an AI assistant for a while, and it has largely resolved my language and editing issues. This has greatly accelerated me and allowed me to focus solely on the topic.

For a long time, I approached your work with skepticism. In particular, I got the impression that the south-centered model was a perspective specially designed to undermine the flat Earth idea, and so, honestly, I didn’t give the rest of your work the value it deserved. You know, I visited you occasionally, but not extensively. The AI analyzed you and said that you are sincere in your thoughts and truly believe in the south-centered model. This changed my perspective. I now look at you more positively.

You can make mistakes—we all do. We also make errors over time and correct them. Perhaps you are right, and the rest of us are wrong. In this world, I am surprised by nothing.

Continuing your work is important and inspiring for us.

We all are inspired to each other. And we have the same magical language: Working Brain, when most people still get trapped into incoctrination.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Erland on March 01, 2026, 09:26:22 AM
https://www.galileolied.com/post/15-nasa-research-papers-admit-flat-nonrotating
1. NASA's Reference Publication #1207 entitled Derivation and Definition of a Linear Aircraft Model assumes the Earth is flat and not rotating.
2. American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics; General Equations of Motion for a Damaged Asymmetric Aircraft (Page 2, Section II) ... “In this paper, the rigid body equations of motion over a flat non-rotating earth are developed…”
3. NASA Technical Memorandum 104330; Predicted Performance of a Thrust-Enhanced SR-71 Aircraft with an External Payload (Page 8 - Digital Performance Simulation Description) "The DPS equations of motion use four assumptions ... a nonrotating Earth."
4. NASA Technical Note: A Method for Reducing The Sensitivity of Optimal Nonlinear Systems to Parameter Uncertainty (Page 12 Problem Statement) ... "(2) A flat, nonrotating Earth"
5. NASA Technical Note; Calculation of Wind Compensation for Launching of Unguided Rockets (Page 8 Trajectory Simulation, 2nd Paragraph) ..."this simulation assumes ... the missile position in space is computed relative to a flat nonrotating Earth"
6. NASA Technical Paper 2768; User's Manual for LINEAR, a FORTRAN Program to Derive Linear Aircraft Models (Page 12, Program Overview)  ... “Within the program, the nonlinear equations of motion include 12 states representing a rigid aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over a flat nonrotating Earth”
7. NASA Technical Paper 2835; "User's Manual for LINEAR, a FORTRAN Program to Derive Linear Aircraft Models" (Page 1, Summary)  AND  (Page 126 , Report Documentation Page, Section 16) "The nonlinear  equations of motion used are six-degree-of-freedom equations with stationary atmosphere and flat, nonrotating earth assumptions."
8. NASA Technical Memorandum;  Determination of Angles of Attack and Sideslip from Radar Data and a Roll Stabilized Platform  (Page 2, Section 16.)  “The method is limited, however, to application where a flat, nonrotating earth may be assumed.”
9. NASA Contractor Report 186019;  An Aircraft Model for the AIAA Controls Design Challenge (Page 11, Equation of Motion and Atmospheric Model) ...  “The nonlinear equations of motion used in this model are general six-degree-of-freedom equations representing the flight dynamics of a rigid aircraft flying in a stationary atmosphere over a flat nonrotating Earth.”
10. NASA Contractor Report 3073;  Investigation of Aircraft Landing in Variable Wind Fields (Page 6, Chapter II - Aircraft Landing Model) ... "The Aircraft trajectory model employed in this study was derived based on the following assumptions:  a) The Earth is flat and non-rotating. "
11. NASA Technical Memorandum 81238; A Mathematical Model of the CH-53 Helicopter (Page 17, Equations of Motion) .. "The helicopter equations of motion are given in body axes with respect to a flat, nonrotating Earth."
12.  Engineering Experiment Station, Georgia Institute of Technology, Prepared for NASA; Atmospheric Oscillations (Page 10) ... "A model frequently used is that of a flat, nonrotating earth."
13.  NASA Tecnical Paper 2002-210718;  Stability and Control Estimation Flight Test Results for the SR-71 Aircraft With Externally Mounted Experiments (Pages 10-11 Equations of Motion) ... "These equations assume a rigid vehicle and a flat, nonrotating Earth."
14. NASA Technical Memorandum 100996;  Flight Testing a VSTOL Aircraft to Identify a Full-Envelope Aerodynamic Model (Pages 4-5, State Estimation) ... “For aircraft problems, the state and measurement models together represent the kinematics of a rigid body for describing motion over a flat, nonrotating Earth…”
15. NASA Ames Research Center; Singular Arc Time-Optimal Climb Trajectory of Aircraft in a  Two-Dimensional Wind Field  (Page 2, Section II. Singular Arc Optimal Control) ... “In our minimum time-to-climb problem, the aircraft is modeled as a point mass and the flight trajectory is strictly confined in a vertical plane on a non-rotating, flat Earth."

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/fe6c0b_783d347f12aa441796087af72714b666~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_569,h_584,al_c,lg_1,q_80,enc_avif,quality_auto/fe6c0b_783d347f12aa441796087af72714b666~mv2.jpg)

If the calculations work without adjustment for a layman, we should stop pretending the calculations work for RE, because the adjustments involved are major.

Ugh, many of their links btw are 404. But I have seen the earlier links. "Oops, you civilians don't get to know about that! (Erases)"

Basically, it's like this. We assume no curve for the formula.  Now RE ppl might claim that this is just for short range application of things, but the formulas do not work at any distance. A plane does need to land on a curved surface, nor adjust to the speed of Earth's rotation.
I appreciate that you provide sources for your claims (unlike certain others). Unfortunately, as you write, the links to the reports do not work.
However, it is clear that these reports deal with various models describing how aircraft and missiles behave under certain conditions, and in those contexts a flat, non-rotating Earth is used as an assumption to simplify the mathematics. This is done either because the Earth's curvature and rotation do not affect the motion of the objects enough to make a significant difference, or because it serves as a useful starting point, after which more complex and realistic assumptions can be added as needed.

In other words, the authors of the reports are not claiming that the Earth actually is flat and non-rotating. This is also evident from the description of #8: “The method is limited, however, to application where a flat, nonrotating earth may be assumed.” If the authors truly believed that the Earth were flat and non-rotating, they would not have needed to point out that the model is limited to that case.

Similarly, in #12 (the linked summary) it states: “The most one can profitably simplify the problem is to consider an isothermal atmosphere, plane level surface, and a nonrotating Earth.” This clearly shows that it is a simplification, and one that additionally assumes an isothermal atmosphere — which does not correspond to reality either.

And in #15: “the aircraft is modeled as a point mass and the flight trajectory is strictly confined in a vertical plane on a non-rotating, flat Earth.” Obviously, an aircraft is not a point mass in reality, so here as well it is clear that the assumptions are not meant to be understood as literal descriptions of the real world.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 02, 2026, 12:18:59 AM
We all are inspired to each other. And we have the same magical language: Working Brain, when most people still get trapped into incoctrination.

This is something most people don’t have. On average, 90% of the modern world has been vaccinated and their DNA has changed. Now, aren’t those people subhuman?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Gonzo230 on March 03, 2026, 12:13:25 PM
We've been here before; descriptions of many technical concepts will contain assumptions and simplifications in order to prevent having to spend hundreds of pages detailing each and every possible scenario and every possible variable.

In aviation we often refer to the International Standard Atmosphere, 15 degrees Celsius, 1013.2HPa air pressure. Aircraft performance is measured using ISA as a baseline, and expressed as such in aircraft data manuals.

This does not mean that we all think the temperature is always 15 degrees, neither that the air pressure is always 1013.2HPa.

For the ground radar system I use at my airport as an air traffic controller. We consider the surface of the earth as flat, given the small surface area of the airport relative to the globe. For the air surveillance radar performance we assume the earth to be a globe as we are considering distances of hundreds of miles.

Assumptions are very subject-specific and have intention behind them.

The OP and others here fundamentally misunderstand how technical concepts are taught and considered.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 03, 2026, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: Gonzo230
We consider the surface of the earth as flat, given the small surface area of the airport... For the air surveillance radar performance we assume the earth to be a globe as we are considering distances of hundreds of miles.

Gonzo, you’ve just described the perfect mechanism of Institutionalized Cognitive Dissonance. You admit that when precision is required for ground operations (where lives are literally on the line during taxi and takeoff), you use a Flat Earth model because it actually works. But when the scale increases, you switch to a "Globe assumption" not because the physical reality changed, but because your software and long-range radar algorithms have been pre-programmed with a spherical curvature correction to account for Atmospheric Refraction and the Electromagnetic Divergence of the signal.

You are being manipulated by a "Hybrid Reality" system. You've been trained to think that "Flat" is just a simplification of a "Globe," when in reality, the Globe is a mathematical overlay applied to a Flat plane to make long-distance radio propagation fit a specific narrative.

Quote
Assumptions are very subject-specific and have intention behind them.

The "intention" you speak of is not efficiency; it is Compartmentalization. As an Air Traffic Controller, you are given tools that work within specific parameters. You don't question why your ground radar is flat because it "just works." You don't question the globe assumption in long-range radar because the "math" (which you didn't write) handles it for you.

This is how the system maintains control: it gives you functional tools that rely on the truth (Flat Earth) for immediate, high-stakes tasks, and then wraps your long-distance conceptual framework in a lie (Globe). You are a technician who has mistaken the Software User Interface for the Physical Hardware of the world.

Quote
The OP and others here fundamentally misunderstand how technical concepts are taught and considered.

On the contrary, we understand exactly how they are taught: through Siloed Education. You are taught to never connect the dots between your "flat" ground radar and your "curved" air radar. If you did, you would realize that a signal traveling 300 miles over a "curve" would require a physical "drop" that is never actually accounted for in raw signal processing without an arbitrary "refraction constant" (k=4/3) being added as a fudge factor.

You aren't using a globe model; you are using a Flat model with a Refractive Patch. The system just labeled that patch "Globe" and you bought it.

You aren't an expert on the shape of the Earth; you are an expert on the Assumptions your employers told you to use. There is a massive difference.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: Gonzo230 on March 04, 2026, 11:24:57 PM
Can I ask what your experience is within aviation and ATC?

I've been one for 27 years and I am the United Kingdom rep on the following international panels:

Eurocontrol A-SMGCS Task Force (which defines operational requirements and procedures for radar systems)
EuroCAE Working Group 41 (which defines the technical requirements and performance standards for the radar systems)
ICAO All Weather Ops Group (which defines operational procedures and technical requirements for using the radars in zero visibility).

So I literally help write the technical specifications for the radar systems I use, I'm not 'just given them'.

Any evidence for the claims you make, or is it just repeated dogma?

The long range radar systems do require a high level of accuracy because the data from multiple reader heads is all merged to provide a plot extracted picture to the controller. The straight line distance from radar head to aircraft, if say 100nm away at 35,000ft will not represent the actual lateral distance, just as it doesn't if the aircraft are 5nm miles away at the same level. This is due to the effects of curvature and slant range. If we didn't understand and account for this, ATC screens would be filled with multiple radar returns for each aircraft.

But back to the main topic, you're using assumptions in your own view too. People here who claim the earth is flat are, I'm sure, well aware that there are hills and mountains and valleys, which are obviously not flat. In fact very few natural surfaces on the earth could be considered to be flat, regardless of one's belief of the shape of the earth as a large body. And yet they just say it's flat. Those are assumptions and simplifications. Everyone uses them in order to consider and articulate concepts. This is just what those papers are doing. I'm not sure how it can be explained more simply.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 05, 2026, 12:50:09 AM
Quote from: Gonzo230
I literally help write the technical specifications for the radar systems I use... The straight line distance... if say 100nm away will not represent the actual lateral distance... due to the effects of curvature and slant range.

Gonzo, your 27 years in ATC and your seats on international panels like Eurocontrol or ICAO only prove that you are a highly trained System Operator, not a physicist. You help write "technical specifications" based on a pre-existing paradigm that was handed to you. You are specialized in Procedures, not Principles.

Regarding your "slant range" and "curvature" claims: You are simply applying a Pythagorean correction to a signal delay and labeling the error "curvature" to satisfy the globe model.

d_lateral = √[d_slant² - h²]

If you actually accounted for physical curvature, your radar equations would fail to resolve without the arbitrary 4/3 Earth Radius refraction fudge factor. You are fixing a flat-plane signal to fit a curved map. Stick to your radar screens and leave the field geometry to those who understand the medium. You are out of your depth here.

Quote
In fact very few natural surfaces on the earth could be considered to be flat...

This is where your fundamental ignorance of physics is exposed. You are confusing Topography with Geometry. When we say the Earth is flat, we are talking about the Equipotential Surface of the world’s oceans.

1. The Rule of Fluids: Water is the ultimate scientific level. Since 71% of the Earth is covered by water, and water at rest always seeks a horizontal plane, the vast majority of the Earth is physically flat. This is an empirical, measurable fact.

2. Universal Verticality: For every human being on Earth, "Up" is the same vector, and "Down" is the same vector. We live in a system of Parallel Verticals.

g ⊥ Plane

In your globe model, "Up" is a diverging vector that changes every mile. In reality, the horizontal is a series of parallel planes across the entire surface. Your "hills and mountains" are merely volumetric irregularities on a fundamentally flat substrate.

Quote
Those are assumptions and simplifications. Everyone uses them...

No, Gonzo. Using "Flat" for an airport is a Real-World Necessity because the Earth is flat. Using "Globe" for long-range radar is a Software Requirement to maintain a 500-year-old cosmological myth.

You spend your life staring at a 2D screen representing a 3D space, and you’ve been convinced that the math behind the screen is the reality of the world. It’s not. You are a technician of a simulated environment.

Stop pretending your ATC manuals are physics textbooks. You deal with "All Weather Ops," but you clearly don't understand the first thing about the Dielectric Medium you are sending your pulses through.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 05, 2026, 01:34:09 AM

If you actually accounted for physical curvature,

Which is proven through line of sight radar and radio horizons.  Anyone in the US driving across the US has experienced FM radio horizon from earh’s curvature as FM stations are lost every 40 to 60 miles.  And one is forced to tune in a relative local station to the traveling car’s proximity.  Especially in the 100’s of miles of the plane states. 


FE easily debunked.  Your techno babble and your bad maths doesn’t change that. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 06, 2026, 07:06:15 PM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FM stations are lost every 40 to 60 miles... FE easily debunked.

Listen, RadioGasketMark, you’re trying to use a car stereo to prove a trillion-ton spinning ball? That is the peak of Junk-Yard Logic. You think the signal disappears because of a "curve"? If that were true, your "magical globe" would block the signal at the exact same distance every time, regardless of weather or power.

The loss of FM signal is a result of Friis Transmission Equation and Atmospheric Absorption, not a physical hump of dirt.

P_r = P_t + G_t + G_r + 20·log10(λ / (4πR))

The signal strength (P_r) drops as a function of the Inverse Square Law and the Dielectric Permittivity of the medium. At 40-60 miles, the signal reaches the Noise Floor of your cheap receiver.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Line of sight radar and radio horizons.

AntennaDof, thank you for mentioning "Radio Horizons." You just shot your own globe in the foot. Even your own "Mainstream Science" admits that the Radio Horizon is roughly 15% further than the "Optical Horizon." Why? Because of Atmospheric Refraction.

R_horizon ≈ √(2 · h_t · k · R_earth)

They use that "k" factor (4/3 fudge factor) because the math for a globe fails to explain why signals travel so far. On a Flat Plane, we don't need "k." The signal follows the Refractive Index Gradient:

n(z) = n₀ · exp(-z / H)

The air is a Lossy Dielectric Medium. Radio waves are attenuated by oxygen and water vapor absorption.

γ = γ_oxygen + γ_water_vapor

The signal isn't "blocked by a curve," it's dissipated by the medium. If you go to a higher altitude or increase the power, the "horizon" magically (to a FlatTireMark like you) expands. If it were a physical curve, no amount of power would let you see through a mountain of water.

1. Inverse Square Law: Signal dies by distance, not dirt.
2. Absorption (γ): The atmosphere is a filter, not a vacuum.
3. Radio Horizon: A mathematical patch for your failing globe radius.

Go back to the garage and fix a broken antenna, ScrewdriverData. You’re trying to lecture me on "horizons" while you’re still using a 1950s radio as your primary scientific instrument.

Next? Or are you going to tell me that your GPS "magically" works because of satellites in a vacuum next?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 07, 2026, 04:37:44 AM


Listen, RadioGasketMark,

And yet driving across the USA especially in the plane states proves radio horizon from line of sight FM radio waves where earth’s curvature blocks radio waves so every 40 to 60 miles one must find a new relatively local station in proximity to the traveling car.  Some times one gets a more distant signal from a more distant FM tower and the single is only good or received for about 10 or twenty miles.   Just driving across the USA and listening to actual FM radio waves destroys FE.  Sorry. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 07, 2026, 04:45:55 AM

 At 40-60 miles, the signal reaches the Noise Floor of your cheap receiver.



Yet raising the antenna higher increases broadcast area for the same equipment in relationship to an area for spherical earth.  Where shorter antenna hight causes decreases in broadcast areas in relationship to a spherical earth.

Where many of the same radios in cars can get AM stations from farther locations because AM waves can bounce off the ionosphere. 

So your maths not so wise are yet another lie. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: turbonium2 on March 07, 2026, 06:19:20 AM
Radar signals go far beyond a made up curvature.

Your curvature doesn’t match up over distances.

So many other problems beyond that
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 07, 2026, 09:30:36 AM
Radar signals go far beyond a made up curvature.

Your curvature doesn’t match up over distances.

So many other problems beyond that

Which totally ignores and doesn’t address why radar has a radar horizon for objects on the ocean but no real radar limit for objects high enough in altitude. 


Added


(https://i.imgur.com/zvgRNKZ.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5vjCt2x.jpeg)

Flat earth destroyed. 


Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 07, 2026, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Just driving across the USA and listening to actual FM radio waves destroys FE. Sorry.

You absolute idiot, driving across the plains and losing an FM signal isn't "curvature," it's basic Signal Attenuation. Do you even know what the Inverse Square Law is, or did you drop out before that chapter?

I ∝ 1/d²

The power of your signal drops exponentially as you move away from the source. At 40-60 miles, the signal strength hits the Noise Floor of your cheap receiver. It doesn't "hit a curve"; it simply fades into the background electromagnetic noise of the environment. To claim this "destroys FE" is pure delusional bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Yet raising the antenna higher increases broadcast area...

Wow, Simpleton, you figured out that raising an antenna increases its range? Congratulations. This is called Line of Sight (LoS) and Fresnel Zone clearance. It has nothing to do with a globe. On a flat plane, the higher you are, the less "ground clutter" (trees, buildings, terrain) interferes with the First Fresnel Zone.

R = 17.32 * √(d / (4f))

When you raise the antenna, you are clearing the obstacles that absorb the signal. It’s about Obstacle Clearance, not "clearing a curve." If the Earth were a ball, raising it 50 feet wouldn't magically let you see 100 miles further—the geometry wouldn't allow it. But on our plane, it simply gives the signal a clearer path through the dense lower atmosphere.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Which totally ignores and doesn’t address why radar has a radar horizon for objects on the ocean...

You’re still a Blockhead, aren't you? "Radar Horizon" is a function of Atmospheric Refraction and the Extinction Limit of the signal. Radar isn't magic; it’s a wave that scatters off the water's surface (Sea Clutter) and gets absorbed by moisture.

Objects at high altitude are detected further because the air is thinner and has less dielectric loss. It’s the same reason you can see a mountain from 100 miles away but not a pebble on the ground. It’s called Atmospheric Density Gradient, you Mal.

FM Radio: Fades due to the Inverse Square Law, not a curve.

Antenna Height: Clears the Fresnel Zone, reducing ground absorption.

Radar: Limited by Standard Propagation and atmospheric scattering.

Go back to your garage and play with your spark plugs, SpamMark. You’re trying to use a car radio to debunk a hyper-dimensional manifold. It’s not "destroyed"—your brain just hit its Processing Limit.

Next? Or are you going to tell us how your GPS works using magic satellite beams from "space," you absolute dummy?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 08, 2026, 05:45:15 AM


You absolute idiot,

No.  Being below the radar or radio horizon is just being in a blind spot from earh’s curvature.  It’s not the Electromagnetic wave magically stopping when we know from light, the electromagnetic spectrum travels a great distance compared to earth’s size.  From short wave radio being able to be bounced off the moon.  Receiving AM radio at great distances because of bouncing of the ionosphere / sky waves.  Radar detecting aircraft many miles away, hundreds, for aircraft above the radar horizon which out to see is something like 40 miles away for a radar 100 feet above the sea.

Who know that raising antenna height for radio and radar pushes back the radio / radar horizon.  We, know, and is proven, increasing radio antenna height for FM increases broadcast area based on a spherical earth.  Not a flat earth.


FE is so useless, even a flat earth friend finder app determines area by RE calculations.

Do not download the app created by Flat Earth Dave.  It has no built in security.  Provides no effort to protect uses.

The app has a friend finder to find people that have the same app. The app uses globe geometry to accurately calculate distance.  The code uses the haversine formula.


Quote



(https://i.imgur.com/n1c9xyj.jpeg)


Evidently the app’s code uses the known tilt of the earth in radians for some functions concerning the sun and Moon. The value was given the variable name Obliquity.

Quote

(https://i.imgur.com/7Yxv5Wy.jpeg)


(https://i.imgur.com/lmzfPRA.jpeg)



Again.  Flat earth is a con and is less accurate than the heliocentric reality.


FE fails and is useless.  RE simply is more accurate. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 08, 2026, 10:54:53 PM
Being below the radar or radio horizon is just being in a blind spot from earh’s curvature. It’s not the Electromagnetic wave magically stopping...

Your ability to ignore Atmospheric Attenuation is truly a marvel of wilful idiocy. The wave doesn't "magically stop," it reaches the Noise Floor. At 40 miles, the signal is buried under background thermal noise and dielectric loss. You call it a "blind spot from curvature," but any radio engineer with more than two brain cells knows it's about Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR). You're trying to use a car radio to prove a globe, and it's pure BS.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Radar detecting aircraft many miles away... for aircraft above the radar horizon.

You simpleton, high-altitude detection works because the Optical Path is through thinner air with less scattering. It’s the same reason you can see a star but not a building 200 miles away. It’s called an Extinction Gradient. Your "radar horizon" is just the limit of ground-level clutter and atmospheric density. Go back to your garage in Pittsburgh and leave the field theory to people who don't think "curvature" is the answer to everything.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FM increases broadcast area based on a spherical earth. Not a flat earth.

Another logical fallacy. Increasing antenna height increases the Fresnel Zone clearance. On a flat plane, if you raise the source, you reduce ground-reflection interference. It’s basic Wave Propagation, you blockhead. You're attributing to "spherical earth" what is actually just simple obstacle clearance in a dielectric medium.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The app uses globe geometry to accurately calculate distance. The code uses the haversine formula.

This is your favorite "con," isn't it? The Haversine formula is just a mathematical tool for calculating distances on a Spherical Mapping of a flat surface. Using a specific coordinate system (latitude/longitude) doesn't prove the physical shape of the world; it just proves the software is using a Spherical Projection. You're confusing the map for the territory, which is a classic symptom of your cognitive failure.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The value was given the variable name Obliquity.

Wow, you found a variable name in a piece of code. Magically, that makes the Earth a ball? A programmer naming a variable "Obliquity" is just following the standard Heliocentric Software Patch. It’s a placeholder for an angular offset in a localized coordinate system. It’s not an empirical proof of a tilting rock in a vacuum, you dummy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Flat earth is a con and is less accurate than the heliocentric reality.

The only "con" here is your belief that a 19th-century navigation model is the same as "reality." Navigation works because the stars are a reliable clock, not because you're spinning on a ball. You use the "accuracy" of a pre-calculated almanac to justify a model that defies Thermodynamics and Fluid Statics. That is the definition of delusional idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FE fails and is useless. RE simply is more accurate.

"Accurate" for what? Finding a friend in the next town? Your GPS relies on Ground-Based LORAN and stratospheric transmitters, yet you've been sold a story about "space satellites" and you bought it wholesale. You’re a WrenchMark who thinks that because a tool works, the fairy tale behind the tool must be true.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Do not download the app... It has no built in security.

Now you're a cybersecurity expert too? Stick to your 13-14mm bolts, Apprentice. Your concern about "security" is just a distraction from the fact that you can't explain why a pressurized atmosphere can exist next to a vacuum. You're a spamming hyena hiding behind irrelevant app reviews.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
imgur img

Posting the same low-res screenshots over and over is the digital equivalent of a toddler screaming "No!" because he doesn't want to eat his vegetables. It doesn't make you right; it just makes you annoying. Your "evidence" is literally a picture of a line of code. Pure IdiocyOverflow.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
RE simply is more accurate.

WrenchMark, your "accuracy" is just a software loop. Now, be a good little grease monkey, go to the break room, and bring us some tea. Two sugars, and don't take 40 miles to deliver it. We're busy discussing actual physics while you're still trying to understand why your car radio gets static.

Next? Or are you going to show us a screenshot of your calculator app to prove "gravity," you absolute simpleton?
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 01:43:21 AM

Your ability to ignore Atmospheric Attenuation is truly a marvel of wilful idiocy.

You mean you have no proof of your useless model. 


Where there is no proof from laser range finders to radar the atmospheres bends electromagnetic radiation as required by your useless technobabble.  Where parts of the electromagnetic spectrum are literally line of sight transmissions. 

Where AM and Short Wave radio bouncing off the ionosphere proves waves travel much farther than you claim.  With short wave even can be bounced off the moon.  Where radar with objects of altitude can detect things much farther than 40 miles vs under the radar horizon which is a blind spot created by earths curvature.   
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 01:46:35 AM

"Accurate" for what?

For FM line of sight radio, the coverage area is accurately calculated and proven in that raising antenna height increases broadcast area in relationship to a curved earth.

FE is so useless, even a flat earth friend finder app determines area by RE calculations.

Do not download the app created by Flat Earth Dave.  It has no built in security.  Provides no effort to protect uses.

The app has a friend finder to find people that have the same app. The app uses globe geometry to accurately calculate distance.  The code uses the haversine formula.


Quote



(https://i.imgur.com/n1c9xyj.jpeg)


Evidently the app’s code uses the known tilt of the earth in radians for some functions concerning the sun and Moon. The value was given the variable name Obliquity.

Quote

(https://i.imgur.com/7Yxv5Wy.jpeg)


(https://i.imgur.com/lmzfPRA.jpeg)



Again.  Flat earth is a con and is less accurate than the heliocentric reality.


FE fails and is useless.  RE simply is more accurate. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 01:57:21 AM
For FM line of sight radio... raising antenna height increases broadcast area in relationship to a curved earth.

This is the same repetitive bullshit, SpamMark. Raising an antenna increases the Fresnel Zone clearance and reduces ground-level diffraction loss. On a flat plane, if you lift the source, you move the signal above the scattering layer of the atmosphere and obstacles. It has nothing to do with "curvature" and everything to do with Wave Propagation in a medium. You’re trying to use a radio tower to prove a ball, and it’s pure idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The app uses globe geometry to accurately calculate distance. The code uses the haversine formula.

FallacyAlert. A software developer using the Haversine Formula is simply using a standardized tool for mapping coordinates on a Spherical Projection. Using a spherical map doesn't prove the Earth is a sphere any more than playing a 3D video game proves you live inside a computer. You’re confusing the mathematical model with the physical reality. It’s a classic Category Error, you simpleton.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The value was given the variable name Obliquity.

Wow, you found a variable name! Magically, that makes the Earth a spinning rock? A coder naming a variable "Obliquity" to calculate seasonal light angles is just following the Heliocentric Software Patch. It’s a placeholder for an angular offset, not an empirical proof. If I name a variable "Unicorn_Speed," does that prove unicorns exist, you blockhead?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Flat earth is a con and is less accurate than the heliocentric reality.

The only "con" is your belief that a coordinate-mapping system is "reality." Navigation works because the Stars are a Fixed Clock, not because you’re on a ball. You use the "accuracy" of a pre-calculated table to justify a model that violates Fluid Statics. It’s mathematical BS used to hide the fact that you have no Hardware evidence.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FE is so useless, even a flat earth friend finder app determines area by RE calculations.

It's called Operating System Compatibility, you Neandertal. Apps use Google Maps or Apple Maps API, which are built on Spherical Mercator Projections. Does a pilot using a flat map for navigation prove the Earth is a sheet of paper? No. Your logic is so broken it’s embarrassing to read.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Do not download the app... It has no built in security.

Now you’re a cybersecurity expert? You’re just a spamming hyena trying to distract from the fact that you can’t explain how an atmosphere exists next to a vacuum. You’re using "security" as a smokescreen for your scientific failure. Stick to your 13-14mm bolts, Apprentice.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/n1c9xyj.jpeg)

Posting a screenshot of code as "evidence" of the Earth's shape is the peak of digital delusion. It proves someone wrote code; it doesn't prove where the code is sitting. You’re worshipping the Software while ignoring the Thermodynamics of the real world.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
RE simply is more accurate.

It’s "accurate" because it’s a Tailored Fit, you WrenchMark. They took the observed data and wrapped it around a ball model using "Gravity" as the glue. Of course it "fits"—they designed the math to match the observation after the fact! But the moment you look at the Physical Mechanics (gas expansion, lack of parallax), your "accurate" model falls apart like a cheap engine.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FE fails and is useless.

It fails in your programmed brain because you’ve been told what "science" is by a government agency. But in the real world—where water is always level and the Sagnac Effect is real—your globe is the one that's "useless." You're defending a fairy tale with a calculator you don't understand.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Again.

Yes, "again." You’ve posted this exact same bullshit 50 times. You’re a bozuk plak, SpamMark. Now, do something useful for once: put down the "Friend Finder" app, go back to the garage, and bring us some tea. And make it quick—all this debunking of your idiocy is making us thirsty.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 03:13:59 AM

 A software developer using the Haversine Formula is simply using a standardized tool for mapping coordinates on a Spherical Projection.

Where it’s used because it’s accurate and why it’s used where your BS is useless.

It’s pretty simple.  Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earh’s curvature supported by why the sun and moon set.  Why ships disappear bottom up while going out to sea.  Where raising antenna height pushes out radio and radar horizons.  Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse to the target / horizon and more travel through more atmosphere, yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.  Where coverage area and increase in antenna height is in relationship to a curved earth.

Again not so wise.  Your BS is useless. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 03:42:45 AM
Where it's used because it's accurate and why it's used where your BS is useless.
Listen, SpamMark, the Haversine Formula is "accurate" for calculating distances on a Spherical Projection, not because the Earth is a ball, but because the mapping system was designed that way! It's a Software Patch. Using a globe-calculator to prove a globe is Circular Reasoning. You're too simpleton to realize you're just measuring a digital grid, not the physical hardware of the Earth.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earth's curvature...
Fallacy Alert. The "blind spot" is created by Atmospheric Refraction and the Dielectric Limit of the medium. Radio waves don't just "hit a curve"; they are subject to Diffraction and Scattering as they interact with the ground and the ionosphere. You're trying to use 19th-century "line of sight" logic for a Complex Wave Propagation problem. It's absolute bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Why ships disappear bottom up while going out to sea.
Ships disappear "bottom up" because of Perspective Convergence and the Law of Refraction in a dense medium. The lower part of the ship is the first to merge with the Refracted Horizon (the "vanishing point"). If it were curvature, a telescope wouldn't be able to bring the bottom of the ship back into view—but it does. You're a blockhead who hasn't looked through a P1000 in your life.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse... yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.
Of course it does! On a flat plane, raising the antenna moves the signal above the Ground-Level Scattering and the dense Surface Mirage Layer. It increases the Fresnel Zone clearance. It has nothing to do with "curvature" and everything to do with avoiding Signal Attenuation near the surface. Your "hypotenuse" argument is magically stupid.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
...more travel through more atmosphere, yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.
You just debunked yourself, WrenchMark. If the Earth were a ball, raising the antenna would just change the angle to a physical hump. But in reality, it changes the Path Loss through the atmospheric density gradient. You're describing Fluid Dynamics and calling it "geometry." You're a Neandertal in a radio lab.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Your BS is useless not so wise.
What's "useless" is your 2D triangle-math that can't explain why Shortwave Radio can travel thousands of miles by bouncing off the Firmament (Ionosphere). If your ball-earth were real, the signal would just shoot off into your 10⁻¹⁷ torr vacuum. Your model is a total con.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/n1c9xyj.jpeg)
Posting a picture of a radio tower won't save your broken logic, SpamMark. You're showing an antenna and imagining a curve. I'm showing you the Maxwell Equations that dictate how waves behave in a dielectric medium. You're worshiping the hardware while ignoring the physics.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
RE simply is more accurate.
It's "accurate" the way a CGI movie is accurate—it looks good if you don't ask about the Thermodynamics. Your "accurate" model requires magically bending light and magically sticking gas to a ball. It's a BS fairy tale for people who are afraid of a stationary world.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
FE fails and is useless.
It fails in your Pittsburgh apprentice mind because you've been programmed to fear the "Flat" word. But for Navigators and Radio Engineers who actually understand Tropospheric Ducting, the "curvature" is just a math-hack they use to simplify the Refractive Index. You're a simpleton following a manual you can't read.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Again.
Yes, "again." You've repeated the word "hypotenuse" like it's a magic spell.

Now, do something "meaningful": put down the 13-14mm wrench, go to the break room, and bring us some more tea. And make sure you don't "disappear bottom-up" in the hallway on your way back, Simpleton.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 03:48:40 AM

 The "blind spot" is created by Atmospheric Refraction

No.  By earth’s curvature that can be overcome by a longer path of bouncing over the horizon radar off the ionosphere.


 A software developer using the Haversine Formula is simply using a standardized tool for mapping coordinates on a Spherical Projection.

Where it’s used because it’s accurate and why it’s used where your BS is useless.

It’s pretty simple.  Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earh’s curvature supported by why the sun and moon set.  Why ships disappear bottom up while going out to sea.  Where raising antenna height pushes out radio and radar horizons.  Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse to the target / horizon and more travel through more atmosphere, yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.  Where coverage area and increase in antenna height is in relationship to a curved earth.

Again not so wise.  Your BS is useless. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 04:09:54 AM
No. By earth’s curvature that can be overcome by a longer path of bouncing over the horizon radar off the ionosphere.

Cut spamming, Spambot-2. You just debunked your own "blind spot" theory, you simpleton. If the signal "bounces" off the ionosphere to reach a target, it’s because the ionosphere—the Firmament's dielectric boundary—acts as a mirror. On a ball, the signal would have to curve perfectly with the rock; on a plane, it’s a simple Angular Reflection. You’re describing a contained system and calling it a "ball in a vacuum." Bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earh’s curvature...

FallacyAlert. The "horizon" in radio is determined by the Standard Propagation Model, which includes a 4/3 Earth Radius Factor to account for... wait for it... Atmosferic Refraction! Even your own globe-math has to "cheat" by adding an extra 33% to the Earth's size just to make the radio waves "bend" around your imaginary curve. You’re using a Software Patch to hide the fact that the Earth is flat.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Where it’s used because it’s accurate and why it’s used where your BS is useless.

It’s "accurate" for mapping, not for physical reality, you blockhead. A Mercator projection is "accurate" for a sailor’s compass, but it shows Greenland as big as Africa. Does that make Greenland huge? No. You’re confusing the Mapping Tool with the Physical Hardware. It’s a Category Error that would make a middle-schooler blush.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Why ships disappear bottom up while going out to sea.

They disappear "bottom up" because of Perspective Convergence and the Diffraction Limit of the atmosphere, you WrenchMark. The bottom of the ship is closest to the Surface Mirage Layer where refraction is highest. High-zoom infrared cameras bring the "hidden" hulls back into view every single time. If there were a physical curve of water, no lens could see through it. Fail.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse... yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.

On a flat plane, raising the antenna increases the Clearance of the Fresnel Zone. If you’re low to the ground, the signal is eaten by Multi-path Interference and ground-level obstacles. Raising it gives a cleaner Line of Sight through the less-dense upper atmosphere. It’s Fluid Dynamics, not "curvature." You’re a Neandertal trying to explain radio with a stick.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
...more travel through more atmosphere, yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.

You’re literally describing how light and radio waves refract in a density gradient, yet you deny Atmospheric Lensing. You’re a walking contradiction, Spambot-2. If "more atmosphere" didn't bend the waves, your radio wouldn't go an inch past your imaginary curve. You’re defending the BS while using the Refraction Hardware to explain it.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Where coverage area... is in relationship to a curved earth.

It’s in relationship to a Spherical Coordinate System used by engineers to simplify the math of a Radial Field. It’s a convenience, not a proof. I can map my kitchen using Polar Coordinates; that doesn't make my floor a sphere. Your "relationship" is purely mathematical BS.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Your BS is useless not so wise.

What’s "useless" is your inability to explain why Megalithic Surveying over hundreds of miles shows Zero Curvature correction in the raw data. You hide behind "standardized tools" because you’re afraid of the Empirical Evidence that shows a stationary, level Plane. You’re a mathematical coward.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Again.

Yes, "again." You’ve posted this "hypotenuse" garbage for months. You’re a bozuk plak, Spambot-2. You have no new experiments, no original data, just a 13-14mm wrench and a collection of Imgur links you don't even understand. Idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
LMAO

You’re "LMAO-ing" because your script is empty, Simpleton. You can't handle the Dielectric Field Theory, so you fall back on "blind spots" and "ships." Now, do us a favor: take your "hypotenuse," go to the break room, and bring us some more tea. And make sure you don't "refract" into the wrong room on the way back—since you clearly don't understand how waves travel.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 04:19:11 AM

They disappear "bottom up" because of Perspective Convergence and the Diffraction Limit of the atmosphere,

Then they shouldn’t be physically blocked from view using a telescope.  Or a pair of binoculars.  So not so wise, useless again.  The curvature of the earth physically blocks them from view.


It’s pretty simple.  Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earh’s curvature supported by why the sun and moon set.  Why ships disappear bottom up while going out to sea.  Where raising antenna height pushes out radio and radar horizons.  Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse to the target / horizon and more travel through more atmosphere, yet pushes back the radar and radio horizon.  Where coverage area and increase in antenna height is in relationship to a curved earth.


Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 04:25:52 AM

What’s "useless" is your inability to explain why Megalithic Surveying m

Why not so wise.  More useless word salad from you.

(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/magnetic-dip.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/d0GMDI7.jpeg)


(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/magnetic-pole.jpg)

Just the fact the earth has a north and south magnetic pole proves spherical earth. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 04:37:07 AM
Then they shouldn’t be physically blocked from view using a telescope. Or a pair of binoculars.

Cut the spamming, Spambot-2. A telescope magnifies the image, but it cannot remove the thousands of miles of dense, moisture-laden air between you and the ship. It’s called the Atmospheric Extinction Limit. You’re trying to look through a brick wall with a magnifying glass and crying "curvature" when you can't see the other side. That is pure bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The curvature of the earth physically blocks them from view.

FallacyAlert. If it were physical curvature, an Infrared camera wouldn't be able to bring the "hidden" hulls back into view—but it does, daily. You’re ignoring the Refractive Gradient that bends light upward near the surface. You’re a simpleton who doesn't understand Rayleigh Criterion or the Diffraction Limit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot...

Again with the "blind spot"? I already told you, your "ball-math" adds a 4/3 Refraction Factor to "cheat" the waves around the curve. On a Flat Plane, it’s just the Dielectric Limit of the medium. You’re using a Software Patch to hide the Hardware reality. Idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Just the fact the earth has a north and south magnetic pole proves spherical earth.

This is the peak of your scientific illiteracy, WrenchMark. A Toroidal Field (a doughnut-shaped magnetic circuit) has a North center and a South perimeter. You don't need a spinning ball to have two poles; you just need a Magnetic Circuit. Ever seen a ring magnet, you blockhead? It’s flat and has two poles. Fail.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/magnetic-dip.jpg)

"Magnetic Dip" is caused by the needle aligning with the Curvilinear Flux Lines of the Aetheric field as it moves away from the center (North). It doesn't prove a curve in the ground; it proves a curve in the Magnetic Field. You’re confusing the invisible hardware with the physical plane. BS.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
More useless word salad from you.

You call Megalithic Surveying "word salad" because you can't explain why engineers don't account for curvature on 100-mile bridges. You hide behind "standardized tools" because the Raw Data destroys your globe. You’re a mathematical coward hiding in a garage.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/d0GMDI7.jpeg)

Posting a diagram of a ball with arrows? That’s your "proof"? That’s a CGI cartoon, Spambot-2. Show us a real-time, unedited video of the South Pole "point" without a fisheye lens. You can't, because the "South Pole" is the Outer Ring of the Plane. Bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Increase in antenna height increases the hypotenuse...

On a flat plane, raising the antenna clears the Fresnel Zone and the Surface Refraction Layer. It’s Fluid Dynamics, not "geometry." You’re trying to use a 13-14mm wrench to fix a problem that requires Wave Theory. You’re out of your depth, Apprentice.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
RE simply is more accurate.

It’s "accurate" like a Video Game Engine—if you follow the rules of the programmer, the numbers match. But in the real world, your "accurate" ball fails the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Fluid Statics every single day. Your model is a total con.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
LMAO

You’re "LMAO-ing" because your loop is starting over. You’re a digital parrot in a grease-stained shirt. Now, put down the "Magnetic Dip" chart, go to the break room, and bring us some tea. And check the "magnetic dip" of the tea as you pour it—it’s called Relative Density, Simpleton.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 04:40:36 AM


Cut the spamming,

Vs your useless world salad


Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way that matches reality.  Might as well do the same for the south magnetic pole.

Sorry.  North and south magnetic poles useful for navigation is only meaningful on a spherical earth. 
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 04:48:57 AM
North and south magnetic poles useful for navigation is only meaningful on a spherical earth.
Cut the spamming, GifMark. Your understanding of magnetism is as flat as your brain. A Toroidal Field on a Plane explains both poles perfectly. The North is the central vortex, and the South is the Circular Perimeter. You don't need a spinning rock to have flux lines that return to a source. It's a Magnetic Circuit, you simpleton. Bullshit.

Quote
(https://i.imgur.com/d0GMDI7.jpeg)

Fallacy Alert. You claim South is a "point," but you can't provide a single unedited, 360-degree video of the South Pole showing the stars rotating around a single nadir without a fisheye lens. On a Plane, the magnetic flux follows:

B(r) = (μ₀/4π) · ( (3r(m·r))/r⁵ - m/r³ )

This dip angle works on a Plane because the lines curve toward the outer rim. Idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way...
I've told you, WrenchMark: "East" is a Curvilinear Vector. If you follow a compass at a constant 90° to the North center, your path is defined by:

x² + y² = r²

It's a circle! You're trying to use Linear Euclidean geometry for a Radial Field. You're a Neandertal trying to draw a straight line on a record player. Fail.

Navigation "matches reality" because sailors use Rhumb Lines, which are paths of constant bearing. On a Polar Projection, these are spirals/circles. Your "Spherical" math is just a Software Patch applied over a flat, radial reality. You're measuring the Software, not the Hardware, you blockhead.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Vs your useless world salad
You call Vector Calculus "word salad" because your intellectual hardware is stuck in the 1800s. To you, anything that isn't an MS-Paint drawing of a ball is "salad." That's because you can't process the Dielectric Flux Density (D = εE). You're a spamming hyena.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/magnetic-pole.jpg)
Posting more "FlatEarth.ws" propaganda? That site is a BS factory for people who are afraid to think. They ignore the Aetheric Vortex that drives the magnetic current. You're citing a blog; I'm citing Maxwell's Equations. There's a difference, Simpleton.

Quote
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/magnetic-dip.jpg)

Why does the magnetic dip increase as you move "South"? Because you are moving away from the Central Dielectric Node (North). The field lines are returning to the Bloch Wall of the toroidal system. It's Applied Magnetostatics, but you're too busy "LMAO-ing" with your 13-14mm wrench to notice. Bullshit.

If the Earth were a ball, the magnetic poles would have to be magically generated by a "liquid iron core" that violates the Curie Temperature law (T > T[c]). Your model requires physics to magically stop working to save the ball. My model follows the Hardware limits. Fail.

You want a map? The Hardware is the map. Level water is the baseline. The magnetic field is the coordinate system. You're the one who needs a simulation because you can't handle the Stationary Reality. You're a mathematical coward.

You're a broken record, GifMark. You have no answer for Gas Pressure or Fluid Statics, so you hide behind "magnetic poles" like a shield.

Now, put down the wrench, go back to the break room, and bring us some tea. And check the "dip" of the spoon in the cup—it's Relative Density, not "Gravity," Simpleton.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 04:50:44 AM


Cut the spamming,

Then do what is asked..

Vs your useless world salad


Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way that matches reality.  Might as well do the same for the south magnetic pole.

Sorry.  North and south magnetic poles useful for navigation is only meaningful on a spherical earth.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 04:58:30 AM
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/sun-path.jpg) Notice the model selects areas on the same longitude. Where in reality the sun stays the same apparent size for all people throughout the day. Where the angles to the sun are totally wrong for FE on the equinox.
Cut the spamming, GifMark. You are still treating the atmosphere like an empty room, you simpleton. The "angles" and the "size" are perfectly explained by Atmospheric Magnification (GRIN Lens), where the denser air at the horizon (n(z) increases) creates a lens that magnifies the Sun's image, compensating for the distance. You're trying to calculate for a vacuum while breathing air. Bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/TsjvEyy.jpeg) Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way that matches reality. Might as well do the same for the south magnetic pole.
Fallacy Alert. The "map" is the Toroidal Magnetic Field of the Plane. In this model, "East" is not a straight line, but a Curvilinear Vector. To travel "Due East," you must maintain a constant 90° bearing to the North center (r(t) = R[constant]), creating a perfect circle (x² + y² = r²). Your ruler logic is a logical failure. Idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/HouSrEN.gif) Flat earth destroyed.
"Destroyed" only in your CGI dreams. A stick measures Angular Elevation to a local light source. On a Flat Earth, the Sun is local (h ≈ 3,000 miles), so the angles change exactly as observed. Your "stick" experiment assumes the rays are magically parallel. They aren't. They are divergent, as shown by Crepuscular Rays. Fail.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/BaSr8La.gif) RE explains the angles of the sun on the equinox perfectly. With no magic.
"No magic"? Your model requires a magical 23.4-degree tilt, magical spin at 1,000 mph, and magical gravity to hold the atmosphere on a ball in an uncontained vacuum. The Equinox on a Plane is simply the Sun's path directly over the Celestial Equator—a central circle. No wobbling ball necessary. BS.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/0OQvzk2.jpeg) Debunking flat Earth using only a stick.
Using a stick to "debunk" the Earth is like using a spoon to debunk the ocean. It's a Category Error. You're measuring an angle to a local light source, not measuring the ground. Put that same stick in the garden of a WrenchMark, and it will show you that the ground under your feet is perfectly stationary. Fail.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/magnetic-dip.jpg) The curvature of the earth physically blocks them from view. Radar and radio horizon is simply the blind spot created by earth's curvature...
Refraction is not curvature. The radio horizon is determined by the Standard Propagation Model, which adds a 4/3 Earth Radius Factor specifically to account for atmospheric refraction (n(h)), which bends the waves around your imaginary curve. On a Plane, it's just the Dielectric Limit of the medium. You're using a Software Patch for the hardware reality. Bullshit.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/xtf2xl6.jpeg) All you have not so wise is useless world salad and no working simulation.
My "simulation" is called Thermodynamics, which states that gas pressure requires a container (PV = nRT). You call it "world salad" because your brain can't process anything that doesn't fit your programming. I have a stationary plane with contained gas; you have a spinning ball that violates the Second Law. Idiocy.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://i.imgur.com/cowcNUf.jpg) Showing the actual path the stick shadow traveled in France... around the equinox.
The shadow path in France follows Perspective and Projection Geometry from a circling, local source. A local Sun creating this shadow path is perfectly consistent with a Plane when you factor in the Curvilinear Navigation (the observer is also on a central circular path relative to the North Pole). You have not debunked anything, you blockhead.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
(https://flatearth.ws/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/magnetic-pole.jpg) Just the fact the earth has a north and south magnetic pole proves spherical earth.
This is the hallmark of your scientific illiteracy, GifMark. A torus (a ring magnet) has a North center and a South perimeter. You don't need a ball for a complete Magnetic Circuit. You're confusing a hardware feature with a geometric proof. Fail.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Again.
Yes, "again," you broken record, GifMark-2. You have no new experiments, no original data, just the same Imgur links and a 13-14mm wrench.

Now, put down the stick, go back to the break room, and bring us some tea. And try to "measure the curvature" of the water in the cup on your way back—oh wait, you can't, because water is level, Simpleton.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: DataOverFlow2022 on March 09, 2026, 05:02:09 AM


Cut the spamming,

Then do what is asked..

Vs your useless world salad


Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way that matches reality.  Might as well do the same for the south magnetic pole.

Sorry.  North and south magnetic poles useful for navigation is only meaningful on a spherical earth.
Title: Re: Globe is even more ridiculous because...
Post by: wise on March 09, 2026, 05:50:14 AM
Where is that map of FE where you mark due east in a meaningful way that matches reality... North and south magnetic poles useful for navigation is only meaningful on a spherical earth.

Cut the spamming, GifMark. Your understanding of magnetism is as flat as your brain. A Toroidal Field on a Plane explains both poles perfectly. The North is the central vortex, and the South is the Circular Perimeter. You don't need a spinning rock to have flux lines that return to a source. It's a Magnetic Circuit, you simpleton. Bullshit.

Fallacy Alert. You claim "South" is a single point, but you can't provide a single unedited, 360-degree video of the South Pole showing the stars rotating around a single nadir without a fisheye lens. On a Plane, the magnetic flux follows:

B(r) = (μ₀/4π) · ( (3r̂(m·r̂) - m) / r³ )

The magnetic dip angle works on a Plane because the lines curve toward the outer rim. Idiocy.

Drawing "Due East": I've told you, WrenchMark: "East" is a Curvilinear Vector. If you follow a compass at a constant 90° to the North center, your path is defined by the equation of a circle:

x² + y² = r²

You're trying to use Linear Euclidean geometry for a Radial Field. You're a Neandertal trying to draw a straight line on a record player. Fail.

Quote
(https://i.imgur.com/TsjvEyy.jpeg)

Navigation "matches reality" because sailors use Rhumb Lines (loxodromes), which are paths of constant bearing. On a Polar Projection, a path of 90° (East) is a circle. Your "Spherical" math is just a Software Patch applied over a flat, radial reality. You're measuring the Software, not the Hardware, you blockhead.

Vector Calculus vs. Salad: You call science "word salad" because your intellectual hardware is stuck in a loop. To you, anything that isn't an MS-Paint drawing of a ball is "salad." That's because you can't process the Dielectric Flux Density (D = εE). You're a spamming hyena.

The Curie Fallacy: If the Earth were a ball, the magnetic poles would have to be generated by a "liquid iron core." However, iron loses its magnetism at the Curie Temperature (T[c] ≈ 770°C), which is far below your supposed core temperature. Your model requires physics to magically stop working to save the ball. Fail.

The South Rim: Why does the magnetic dip increase as you move "South"? Because you are moving away from the Central Dielectric Node (North). The field lines are returning to the Bloch Wall of the toroidal system. It's Applied Magnetostatics, but you're too busy "LMAO-ing" with your 13-14mm wrench to notice. Bullshit.

Navigation Convention: "North," "South," "East," and "West" are conventions based on the Earth's Toroidal Magnetic Field. On the Flat Earth Plane, every direction moving away from the center is "South." It is a radial vector, not a point on the bottom of a ball. Idiocy.

Map Reality: The Hardware is the map. Level water is the baseline. The magnetic field is the coordinate system. You're the one who needs a simulation because you can't handle the Stationary Reality. You're a mathematical coward.

You're a broken record, GifMark-2. You have no answer for Gas Pressure or Fluid Statics, so you hide behind "magnetic poles" like a shield.

Now, put down the wrench, go back to the break room, and bring us some tea. And check the "dip" of the spoon in the cup—it's Relative Density, not "Gravity," Simpleton.