The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: 2centsworth on February 22, 2019, 03:57:04 AM
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I have been studying scientific advances. Case in point: William Shockley was a smart man. He did not invent the transistor. He was the project manager of it's development. He was the head of a team. Science is not about free thinking geniuses! Shockley was a manager. The development of the transistor was a team effort requiring input from thousands if one considers that scientific development builds on what has come before it. Shockley and his team required input from chemists, physicists and other mathematical consultants. This is true of any technological advancement. Science is not about individual genius. It is about trial and error and team effort. I don't doubt that a lot of scientists are plagiarists; they take credit for other's ideas. When I worked as an engineer I had to sign a piece of paper saying that any patent I might apply for would be the property of the people I worked for.
(Yeah, I misspelled teamwork: LOL at myself)
If one wants to write verse like Shakespeare of play a guitar like Jimi Hendrix it takes a gift. You can not learn these kinds of skills in school! Who knows where this kind of skill comes from? Anyone with a brain that is willing to work can be an effective scientist; brains are cheap! Talent like Shakespeare is not so cheap.
Thus, I conclude that the gifted among us are exclusively athletes and artists.
Another thing about scientists: Without a priest, politician, soldier or businessman telling them what to do they would be lost. Science belongs to the people who fund it not the people who work at it.
The only reason people know about Einstein is because he had a PR machine behind him.
If Newton, Archimedes and Einstein had not lived the world would still be at the same level of scientific and technological development. Scientists are not gifted. Most people with high IQ's end up dead and unknown.
The smartest people are lawyers; the good ones. All one needs to do to see this fact is look at the OJ Simpson trial. John Cochran stood head and shoulders above the science, the athlete, the cops and the Los Angeles prosecutors office.
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I have wrote about Elvis and his immense popularity. Elvis died young and miserable. If he were not famous perhaps he would have survived a longer time and been happy. Same is true of Jimi Hendrix. Elvis, John Lennon and Hendrix did not seem to enjoy their success. Mozart died young, poor and misunderstood. I wonder if it was worth it?
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Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?
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You're really gonna get all your mileage out of the Elvis shtick, aren't you?
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Elvis died
Lies.
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Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?
Empty words.
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I will post whatever I want whenever I feel like it until I am banned. If people don't like it they are free to ignore me.
Scientists: always the servants; never the masters!
No shame in being wrong; we all make mistakes. There is only shame in doing wrong.
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Your original post is short sighted and ignorant.
Scientist are no different than any other form of creative minds (at least those that actually join the profession to create). Yes, there may be many people working on a solution to a problem, however, it takes that special person with the mind that works in the correct manner (we all have minds with different strengths and weaknesses) to get that ah ha moment. To put all the pieces together, even if other people made some of the pieces...what good is a puzzle if there isn't someone to put it together?
Even though Tesla created AC current to beat Edison's DC, he didn't make all the pieces. There were others for a time working on the same goal. He looked at their work, then was able to put together the pieces and make his own to create the final picture...then he went on a crazy run of creating things...some things 70 years or more ahead of it's time. If there weren't special people that just get something and can do what others can't, none of his inventions would be 70 years ahead of it's time.
Same with your artist analogy... musicians have their lists of influences that mold them in their younger years...then they add their own self into the music and create something more unique, however, they didn't get there alone...same artist and any other form of creative mind.
Your other example of lawyers, they stand on the work of their predecessors all the time.... Why do you think they use other cases in court, there are entire defense models that are used that another lawyer created.... Do you think a top defense/prosecution attorney in the 1800s could cold a candle to a top attorney now?? No way, they have generations of combined knowledge and experience to use the attorneys of the 1800s would not have.
Same with our children, they should be smarter than the parents. I will be very disappointed if my children are not more intelligent than I when they hit my age now...if they don't accomplish more than I have.
Hell, our whole world works that way...if we didn't learn and take from our predecessors we wouldn't even have fire or the wheel...
Again, your original post is nonsense...maybe you should look at your predecessors and history to hopefully learn something.
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Do you really need to make another thead to reiterate the fact that you don't understand science?
Empty words.
Irony.
CFC, great post by the way. In any field, the greats don't exist in a vacuum.
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Someone else invented the piano and musical scholarship had considerable development before Mozart was born. But nobody taught Mozart how to compose music. You can't teach people how to make beautiful art that transcends it's time and expresses universal beauty. You can teach people how to read and write but you can't really teach them how to be poets.
Scientific method can be taught just like running a business can be taught or building a bridge can be taught. There is really no mystery to it at all. Outside of that all one needs is luck or inspiration.
The great pyramid began as a dream in the mind of an architect; a visionary artist! The managers, number-crunchers and laborers came later. Nobody taught that architect how to dream.
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Outside of shallow put downs and dogmatic hero worship none of you have anything. I know science just as well as any of the rest of you and probably more than most of you.
Art and music are neither good nor bad. One either likes it or they don't.
Science, business, the law are both good and bad at the same time. They concern practical matters and require practical right brained thinking. It only takes hard work and a brain to be creative at science.
Earlier, someone mentioned Leonardo da Vinci. Leonardo was good at everything he tried. He could do science, math and engineering and he was an accomplished musician. But his notoriety came from his painting because his paintings were mysterious and beautiful. His science could be replicated by others but his painting not so much.
If Einstein, Archimedes and Newton hadn't lived science would be at the same place as where it is. Science is about the daily grind of trial and error. Personalities have little to do with it, unlike art and music. Brains are cheap. Outside of hunches science is all right brained whereas painting and sculpture are left brain and music requires the whole brain.
"From the time of the invention of the wheel the invention of the automobile was foretold." And if Henry Ford wouldn't have lived someone else would have learned to make cars off an assembly line.
Very few of you in here has any respect for any who disagree with your world view.
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Outside of shallow put downs and dogmatic hero worship none of you have anything. I know science just as well as any of the rest of you and probably more than most of you.
Art and music are neither good nor bad. One either likes it or they don't.
Science, business, the law are both good and bad at the same time. They concern practical matters and require practical right brained thinking. It only takes hard work and a brain to be creative at science.
Earlier, someone mentioned Leonardo da Vinci. Leonardo was good at everything he tried. He could do science, math and engineering and he was an accomplished musician. But his notoriety came from his painting because his paintings were mysterious and beautiful. His science could be replicated by others but his painting not so much.
If Einstein, Archimedes and Newton hadn't lived science would be at the same place as where it is. Science is about the daily grind of trial and error. Personalities have little to do with it, unlike art and music. Brains are cheap. Outside of hunches science is all right brained whereas painting and sculpture are left brain and music requires the whole brain.
"From the time of the invention of the wheel the invention of the automobile was foretold." And if Henry Ford wouldn't have lived someone else would have learned to make cars off an assembly line.
Very few of you in here has any respect for any who disagree with your world view.
As long as you promise to not troll if your after teamwork this forum regular hosts werepenguin games. You can be a part of it and work in a team!
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Talent is a gift. Like anything in life it's how you use it. If your talent brings you lots of money and you spend that money on drugs, that's not the fault of your talent.
Elvis was an entertainer. Talented but his demise was not because he was good at what he did, but because his will was weak, couldn't handle the fame and did not have the sense of when to walk away. A rational person would not have turned to drugs. We are all flawed human beings and he was no different.
But drugs are not just bad, but illegal. He died a criminal. Alone, fat, miserable and poor health from years of abusing it.
Not my kind of idol but each to their own
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Talent is not a curse.
Talent is a combination of dedication, hard work and passion.
Talent is not what John Lennon or James Dean died from.
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So, I am supposed to believe that without Billy Shockley that there would be no such thing as semiconductors, hence, no such thing as the internet? Well, I don't believe it. If Shockley never had existed somebody else would have discovered how to make semiconductor materials; same goes with any technical or scientific advancement.
Scientists are not gifted in the same sense as athletes or artists; the stand outs; the household names. Scientists aren't much different than bridge players, chess players, police detectives or businessmen. All it takes is a brain that can calculate, hard work and a little luck.
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Talent is not a curse.
Talent is a combination of dedication, hard work and passion.
Talent is not what John Lennon or James Dean died from.
I didn't say that they died from being talented. But, I do believe their fame put them in a bad place. In the case of Mozart, in spite of his great talent and industry he died poor. Poverty was his reward for all that work he did.
Does a great and memorable work of art really change anything? I doubt it. If Beethoven had not written his 5th symphony or Michelangelo had not sculpted David the world would still be the same place. People would still be just as messed up and violent.
Music and art is what separates us from the critters. I love music but sometimes people take themselves too seriously and that is always a mistake.
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Call me what ever you want but I am not a troll. Neither am I a team player. I am beautiful but not perfect. You're beautiful, too, but you just don't know it. Have you ever seen the movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? I take the message as being that whenever one becomes part of a movement then they invariably lose a part of themselves. I am fighting for my soul! I struggle against the forces of organized religion, political ideologies and scientism. I truly feel violated by our leaders and the school system and the military. Thus, my bitterness. However, I often remind myself that life is just as much about puppy dogs, butterflies and dewy summer mornings as anything else.
None of us is superior. We are all equally important in the universal scheme of things; and we are all replaceable
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>scientism
troll confirmed
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Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.
So what's your point?
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Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.
So what's your point?
By 'talent' I mean the ability to make a body of work that will last the test of time; to be an historical standout and household name. This ability comes at a high price I believe. Can you imagine how Mozart must have felt? He must have known how good he was and yet he was rejected by the public and died poor in spite of all his efforts.
Do you think Michael Jackson was happy?
My point is that civilized society has a fucked up sense of priorities.
What's your point?
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Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are happy.
Some people are talented, famous, rich, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, live long lives and are unhappy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were happy.
Some people are talented, famous, poor, die young and were unhappy.
An so on.
So what's your point?
By 'talent' I mean the ability to make a body of work that will last the test of time; to be an historical standout and household name. This ability comes at a high price I believe. Can you imagine how Mozart must have felt? He must have known how good he was and yet he was rejected by the public and died poor in spite of all his efforts.
Do you think Michael Jackson was happy?
My point is that civilized society has a fucked up sense of priorities.
What's your point?
You are confusing talent with fame.
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Me, a troll? Nope. I have not personally insulted anybody in this forum. I have not engaged in circular arguments. I have not pretended knowledge nor posed as any kind of expert nor been condescending to anybody.
I have been disrespected with glib and sarcastic remarks. I have been name called and put down. I don't care. Tolstoy was censured and Socrates was put to death all because people didn't like what they had to say so I guess I am in good company. (I don't identify with their greatness but I can certainly identify with their alienation!)
If Billy Shockley had not live we would still have the internet and semiconductor technology.
If Archimedes had not lived we would still know about basic tools, buoyancy and that torque= moment arm times force.
IF Newton hadn't lived we would still have calculus and f=ma.
If Einstein hadn't lived we would still have his bullshit theories only they would have been authored by some other stinky slob.
If Edison, Fitzgerald, Pascal,..., oh, the list goes on,..., had not lived we would still have the same shit as what we do now because science is not about personal achievement. It is about building on what has come before where the direction of the development has already been set. Science is about teamwork and the daily application of trial and error. Scientists are not gifted in the same sense has a great artist or an athlete.
There is such a thing as scientism and technocratic dogma. A lot of you people in here would have been the types who voted to execute Socrates simply because you didn't like the things he said. A lot of you people in here like to think you are open minded and reasonable but you are not. You are just as bigoted as any religious fanatic.
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You people who identify with and worship scientists the way you do are doing it as a compensatory response.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
I should specify that by 'talent' I mean the ability to create a body of work that lasts the tests of time. We all have some talent in a generic sense. A lot times famous people aren't talented at all. I love Britney Spears! To be honest I have seen better singers and dancers.
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What have any of my detractors shown but judgment towards me? I have not personally insulted you at all. But, if the shoe fits wear it!
I take your post as being tacit agreement with what I have stated.
Scientism is alive and well and it fucks up peoples heads just as much as religious dogma. Live with it.
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Oh, you've revived this character.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent.
Fame comes from being popular.
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The architects of anarchy have been hard at work. The archons are rising from out of the pit. (Not my words but I agree with what they express.) They want to ruin your lives and eat your souls. When it comes down to it science and intellect will not help you.
I have heard it said that the power of love and a good sense of humor are the weapons of the angels. Good luck to all of you.
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I love Britney Spears!
And you say you're not trolling! ::)
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I have heard it said that the power of love and a good sense of humor are the weapons of the angels.
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I have not personally insulted you at all.
What about your alts?
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Fame comes from being popular.
Or very unpopular.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
Mozart was very famous when he was alive.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
Mozart was very famous when he was alive.
There is something wonderful about this post.
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Fame comes from being popular.
Or very unpopular.
Sorry I forgot about you. :D
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Is this a new shtick?
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Fame comes from being popular.
Or very unpopular.
Sorry I forgot about you. :D
LOL, fame is such a fleeting thing. Keep trying, you too could be famous** one day.
** unpopular as me, that is.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
Mozart was very famous when he was alive.
Mozart was famous as a child entertainer. His music didn't catch on with the public as he got older. He died poor and was buried in a mass grave with paupers. No one knows where Mozart is buried. Hardly anybody attended his funeral.
Amadeus, the movie, was made from material supplied from the case history of court composer Solieri who went mad and died in a sanatarium.
Don Giavonni might be Mozart's greatest work but it bombed as did a lot of his stuff. He never caught on to the general public as a composer. According to Herman Hesse: "Mozart died young, poor and misunderstood. "
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Not new shtick. I just love the expression. 'architects of anarchy'. The alliteration is beautiful and poetic although the idea expressed is quite horrific. I saw it in a recent movie called, 'The Veil'. The movie was written by Reno 911 alum Robert Ben Garant. Thomas Jane was quite impressive as the cult leader, I thought. Lili Rabe was also in it and she is always good.
Might be the end days. I really can't see the world going any farther. I hope I am wrong but there is just so much fear and anger in the air. Also, it is my sense that art, music and science are dead.
Our fearless leader, Donald Trump, is no different on the inside than any leader who has come before him. It is just that the ones before him had some polish to their character. As Tolstoy said, "Kings are the slaves of history." Things are being unveiled and the lies that have held civilization together are becoming unraveled.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo
Be well.
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I have no alts. I think you mean alternative internet identities. I have none. I have not personally insulted anybody in here.
I figure public figures are fair game. Therefore my assault on the plagiarist Einstein. The materialists in here refer to the prophets in the Bible as goat herders to be derogatory; they call Jesus a 'sky fairy' and they are entitled to their opinion which is fine.
I have nothing personal against anybody in here.
I am opinionated, contentious and I hope provocative. I do not believe these 3 traits make one a troll. I have not personally insulted anybody (movements and public figures are fair game) nor resorted to glib put downs nor sarcasm nor vulgarity. I have not made presumptions on anybody else's statements nor I have interpreted other's comments in the broadest sense of what their words might imply. I am not trying to trigger anybody. I only present my opinions and we are all entitled to our viewpoints.
Some of you in here are assholes. But, most of you are basically decent.
I do believe there is such a thing as materialist dogma; there is such a thing as scientism. Adherents to scientism can be just as fanatical and bigoted as any other religious zealot.
One can not say hardly anything against any group of people, no matter how horrible, that isn't true. But when one starts to think that their group is superior that is hubris and that is a problem. Hubris and dishonesty are the biggest problems in the human condition and far surpass ignorance as agencies of human misery.
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I have no alts. I think you mean alternative internet identities. I have none. I have not personally insulted anybody in here.
I figure public figures are fair game. Therefore my assault on the plagiarist Einstein. The materialists in here refer to the prophets in the Bible as goat herders to be derogatory; they call Jesus a 'sky fairy' and they are entitled to their opinion which is fine.
I have nothing personal against anybody in here.
I am opinionated, contentious and I hope provocative. I do not believe these 3 traits make one a troll. I have not personally insulted anybody (movements and public figures are fair game) nor resorted to glib put downs nor sarcasm nor vulgarity. I have not made presumptions on anybody else's statements nor I have interpreted other's comments in the broadest sense of what their words might imply. I am not trying to trigger anybody. I only present my opinions and we are all entitled to our viewpoints.
Some of you in here are assholes. But, most of you are basically decent.
I do believe there is such a thing as materialist dogma; there is such a thing as scientism. Adherents to scientism can be just as fanatical and bigoted as any other religious zealot.
One can not say hardly anything against any group of people, no matter how horrible, that isn't true. But when one starts to think that their group is superior that is hubris and that is a problem. Hubris and dishonesty are the biggest problems in the human condition and far surpass ignorance as agencies of human misery.
Look in the mirror mate because all your judgements apply just as, much to yourself.
Also, you said you have never insulted anyone in one sentence then call some of us arseholes. Do you not see the hypocrisy?
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I have heard it said that the power of love and a good sense of humor are the weapons of the angels.
I would be interested in your take on what is going on with the statue. Offhand I would say it is just another creepy pasta. It is interesting.
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
Mozart was very famous when he was alive.
Mozart was famous as a child entertainer. His music didn't catch on with the public as he got older. He died poor and was buried in a mass grave with paupers. No one knows where Mozart is buried. Hardly anybody attended his funeral.
Amadeus, the movie, was made from material supplied from the case history of court composer Solieri who went mad and died in a sanatarium.
Don Giavonni might be Mozart's greatest work but it bombed as did a lot of his stuff. He never caught on to the general public as a composer. According to Herman Hesse: "Mozart died young, poor and misunderstood. "
Wrong.
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I have no alts. I think you mean alternative internet identities. I have none. I have not personally insulted anybody in here.
I figure public figures are fair game. Therefore my assault on the plagiarist Einstein. The materialists in here refer to the prophets in the Bible as goat herders to be derogatory; they call Jesus a 'sky fairy' and they are entitled to their opinion which is fine.
I have nothing personal against anybody in here.
I am opinionated, contentious and I hope provocative. I do not believe these 3 traits make one a troll. I have not personally insulted anybody (movements and public figures are fair game) nor resorted to glib put downs nor sarcasm nor vulgarity. I have not made presumptions on anybody else's statements nor I have interpreted other's comments in the broadest sense of what their words might imply. I am not trying to trigger anybody. I only present my opinions and we are all entitled to our viewpoints.
Some of you in here are assholes. But, most of you are basically decent.
I do believe there is such a thing as materialist dogma; there is such a thing as scientism. Adherents to scientism can be just as fanatical and bigoted as any other religious zealot.
One can not say hardly anything against any group of people, no matter how horrible, that isn't true. But when one starts to think that their group is superior that is hubris and that is a problem. Hubris and dishonesty are the biggest problems in the human condition and far surpass ignorance as agencies of human misery.
Look in the mirror mate because all your judgements apply just as, much to yourself.
Also, you said you have never insulted anyone in one sentence then call some of us arseholes. Do you not see the hypocrisy?
"Look in the mirror mate because all your judgements apply just as, much to yourself. " Nope. You are wrong. Unlike you I have been quite civil. I do honestly think you need to see a counselor. I've suffered from depression and it sucks. I hope you find some relief.
"you said you have never insulted anyone in one sentence then call some of us arseholes." You misquote me which is dishonest on your part. If you read carefully I said. "personally insulted". I also said that movements and public figures are fair game. I afford you or any of my detractors the same rights. I have insulted a lot of people by design. But, not anybody in particular. I am a believer in Jesus but I don't take it personally when people knock my religion even though it often implies that I and people who think like me are a lot of fools.
Some people in here are assholes: Do you disagree? I have been called lots of names since coming in here. I don't take it personally.
This website has a reputation for being a shill site. I like to write but not enough to do it for a living. So I post on websites like this. This place has yet to ban me. Youtube videos and twitter have kicked me off.
I don't know what is true. I do not know where the truth begins and the lies end. We are all bombarded with propaganda. I never claimed to know anything nor have I ever presented myself as an expert in any field. In Plato's Dialogue Socrates was said to be "wise because he knew he was not wise." Plato said that "all science is perception." Shouldn't we question our own perception?
I think all decent people are looking for the truth. I have grave doubts that science and technology are the correct path towards truth or a better world. Science is a tool and as such it is limited in scope and application. People don't really need it in order to be happy and healthy. Science is not wisdom. Scientists are not prophets nor are they the smartest people. These are my observations and opinions. I don't expect everybody to agree with me. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am the dumbest person who ever lived. But, even so, I am entitled to my opinion just like everybody else.
Think about this: Smart people aren't always right; stupid people aren't always wrong; and mentally ill people aren't always devoid of insight in their observations.
All people are prone to mental/emotional problems as well as just plain old stupidity, even the smartest and strongest among us.
I have learned to love myself warts and all. You should try to do the same.
Why don't you look in the mirror?
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Fame often comes from displaying great talent. van Gogh wasn't famous. There are artists like van Gogh and Mozart who didn't become famous until after they were dead. They had hard lives!
I am not confusing anything at all.
Mozart was very famous when he was alive.
Mozart was famous as a child entertainer. His music didn't catch on with the public as he got older. He died poor and was buried in a mass grave with paupers. No one knows where Mozart is buried. Hardly anybody attended his funeral.
Amadeus, the movie, was made from material supplied from the case history of court composer Solieri who went mad and died in a sanatarium.
Don Giavonni might be Mozart's greatest work but it bombed as did a lot of his stuff. He never caught on to the general public as a composer. According to Herman Hesse: "Mozart died young, poor and misunderstood. "
Wrong.
What exactly did I say that was wrong?
I just read wiki. They said Mozart was buried in a 'common' grave. No one knows where exactly but they do give the name of the cemetary. He did have debts and finance problems but towards the end of his life some of his stuff was selling. I got my information from Herman Hesse and the movie Amadeaus which according to movie promo came from Soleiri's case history. I have also been told the same things from music professors from whom I took classes.
Maybe I am wrong. But, I don't think so. Mozart had a hard life and much of his stuff was rejected by the public. He most certainly had money problems and he most certainly died young.
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I have learned to love myself warts and all. You should try to do the same.
Sorry, warts are a deal breaker.
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I have learned to love myself warts and all. You should try to do the same.
Sorry, warts are a deal breaker.
I am sure the most beautiful and elegant female that ever lived would have a few warts. Our imperfections are what make us loveable.
I had a music instructor tell me once that there is no such thing as a perfect performance. He said that living beings have blemishes but corpses do not. As a musician I consider this the best advice I ever received.
Now, what about the crying angel?
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Amadeus is a movie, not the best source. Mozart was one of the better known and beloved musicians of the time (by the aristocracy of Vienna of course, not the "general public", since all these musicians we know about now are known because they performed for the aristocracy and were inaccessible to the common people), and he made quite a bit of money. The issue is that he was really bad at managing his money, so he had lots of debts towards the end of his life. Also, he was buried in a communal grave because that was the norm for people who didn't belong in the aristocracy of Vienna at the time. The idea that the way he was buried indicates lack of fame or appreciation stems from trying to project modern understandings of these things to 18th century Vienna.
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Amadeus is a movie, not the best source. Mozart was one of the better known and beloved musicians of the time (by the aristocracy of Vienna of course, not the "general public", since all these musicians we know about now are known because they performed for the aristocracy and were inaccessible to the common people), and he made quite a bit of money. The issue is that he was really bad at managing his money, so he had lots of debts towards the end of his life. Also, he was buried in a communal grave because that was the norm for people who didn't belong in the aristocracy of Vienna at the time. The idea that the way he was buried indicates lack of fame or appreciation stems from trying to project modern understandings of these things to 18th century Vienna.
Your information on funeral customs of Vienna at the time is true from what I have read. Herman Hesse in Steppenwolf said that Mozart died poor, young and misunderstood. Mozart died mad. George Bernard Shaw described Mozart's life as a nightmare (I paraphrase). I read about Mozart having a hard life from an essay written by Shaw. Every thing I read or heard about Mozart since then confirms what Shaw said about him. I read it a long time ago. I can't find it now. Shaw loved Mozart and Don Giovanni was one of Shaw's favorite works. Money problems plagued Mozart most of his life. Many critics of the time were not kind to him. There were more popular composers who were more commercially successful.
I think I got it right. He did have money problems. He did have a small funeral with a very few attendees and nobody can show you where he was buried.
I understand movies take dramatic license out of necessity. But, at heart, I think the movie is true.
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Here is a quote from wiki on the death of Mozart contemporary Haydn: "Haydn's remains were interred in the local Hundsturm cemetery until 1820, when they were moved to Eisenstadt by Prince Nikolaus. His head took a different journey; it was stolen by phrenologists shortly after burial, and the skull was reunited with the other remains only in 1954. "
People know where Haydn is buried. Haydn also had a memorial service. Haydn also had money problems as do most musicians but somehow he died with more pomp and circumstance. Haydn was not of the gentry.
I did not get anything wrong.
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I wanted to add that Mozart's requiem was performed at Haydn's mermorial service. That would entail a chorus and small orchestra at the very least. It must have been a lavish affair in spite of the fact that Haydn was from the working class. Unlike Mozart, Haydn got treated like a somebody. Hayden died about 9 yrs after Mozart.
I rest my case!
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A wort is a symptom of something more insidious.