The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: thehay95 on October 23, 2018, 09:50:26 PM

Title: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: thehay95 on October 23, 2018, 09:50:26 PM

Yesterday I was observing planets with my telescope and saw that planets were round, is it that they are spherical or they are flat but they are inclined towards us?

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Stash on October 23, 2018, 10:14:31 PM

Here's a position many FEr's take:

Planets (from Ancient Greek ἀστὴρ πλανήτης [astēr planētēs, "wandering star"], or just πλανήτης [planḗtēs, "wanderer"]) are orbiting astronomical objects. The Earth is not a planet by definition, as it sits at the center of our solar system above which the planets and the Sun revolve. The earths uniqueness, fundamental differences and centrality makes any comparison to other nearby celestial bodies insufficient - Like comparing basketballs to the court on which they bounce.

So my understanding of flat earth theory is that yes, the planets are spherical.

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 24, 2018, 01:34:19 AM

Quote from: thehay95 on October 23, 2018, 09:50:26 PM

Yesterday I was observing planets with my telescope and saw that planets were round, is it that they are spherical or they are flat but they are inclined towards us?

I don't have an astronomical telescope but Mars looks pretty flat ;D as this video of a sunset on Mars seems to indicate ;):

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/p85pzkx5n7fvg7g/Sunset%20on%20Mars.jpg?dl=1) Sunset on Mars photographed by the Opportunity Rover, released earlier this year (https://m.youtube.co/watch?v=bKoNWwBlMDc)

So ::) who knows ::)?

Did you see Mars as it rotated and possibly take some photos?

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: JCM on October 25, 2018, 07:34:02 AM

Quote from: thehay95 on October 23, 2018, 09:50:26 PM

Yesterday I was observing planets with my telescope and saw that planets were round, is it that they are spherical or they are flat but they are inclined towards us?

Since anyone with a good 8 inch telescope can view Jupiters red spot rotating around the planet, the planet is a sphere. 

That telescope can also be pointed to the sun with filters on it to view these sunspots on the sun on a daily basis and watch them rotate around which proves the Sun is a sphere as well.

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Dirty Globalist on October 25, 2018, 07:51:32 AM

If you move a ball far away from you it appears flat, its the same with the planets

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: JCM on October 25, 2018, 02:34:36 PM

Quote from: Dirty Globalist on October 25, 2018, 07:51:32 AM

If you move a ball far away from you it appears flat, its the same with the planets

Umm..  no it doesn’t. Look at that ball with some optics like...  a binocular or a telescope, you can see curvature, potential shadows, etc.  Look up at the moon, is it flat too? 

Are you suggesting planets with moons visibly orbiting them are not possible? 

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Lonegranger on October 27, 2018, 12:16:49 AM

This one is a real dilemma for many FE believers as adopting the Zetetic method and doing ones own research with even basic equipment may lead to answers  that some may find uncomfortable. One really great amature Astro photographer is Damien Peach. He gives lots of tips on how to do it for yourself and find some real answers in the true Zetetic tradition. Or you can just look at his pictures.
http://www.damianpeach.com

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 27, 2018, 01:50:37 AM

Quote from: Lonegranger on October 27, 2018, 12:16:49 AM

This one is a real dilemma for many FE believers as adopting the Zetetic method and doing ones own research with even basic equipment may lead to answers  that some may find uncomfortable. One really great amature Astro photographer is Damien Peach. He gives lots of tips on how to do it for yourself and find some real answers in the true Zetetic tradition. Or you can just look at his pictures.
http://www.damianpeach.com

I have tried to claim that the simplest astronomical observations prove that many claims by flat earthers are simply untrue as in this recent post:
Flat Earth General / Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax? « Message by rabinoz on October 24, 2018, 10:33:10 AM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=78163.msg2110510;topicseen#msg2110510) and here:

Quote from: rabinoz on December 22, 2017, 01:47:20 PM

Quote from: Jane on December 22, 2017, 12:53:21 PM

Astronomy is a science, and like all science it builds upon itself. If you question one of the foundations, everything that follows from said foundation is inadmissible.

But the actual observations and measurements are still admissible unless astronomers are also part of the great conspiracy too.

Quote from: Jane

Once you take out a round Earth the knock-on effects are incredible. It's less ignoring astronomy, more by necessity replacing it because a foundation's been changed pretty drastically.

This is what I try to get over time and time again!
OK, I might do it badly, but the fact remains that the simplest observations refute much of the flat earth model, if not the actual shape of the earth.

Astronomy makes observations about the celestial objects, including the sun and moon. Whatever the shape of the earth, those measurements exist.

I don't have the math background to tackle interpreting those measurements over a flat earth.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

So when is some serious Flat Earth Astronomer ::) going to apply those observations to their flat earth model?

This seems to be the attitude of many flat-earthers to the planets and stars:

Quote from: rabinoz on August 24, 2018, 07:43:52 PM

This seems to be the attitude of many flat earthers:

Quote from: Marciano on January 09, 2016, 09:18:51 PM

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  I mean after all, they're just lights in the sky.  How much can we expect to ever know about them? 

In any case, you might like Zetetic Astronomy.  Zetetic means "seeker."  As in, seeker of truth. 

http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm (http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm)

Little did Marciano realise, but those "lights in the sky", especially if we include the sun and moon make things very uncomfortable for flat-earthers.

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Lonegranger on October 27, 2018, 06:15:13 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on October 27, 2018, 01:50:37 AM

Quote from: Lonegranger on October 27, 2018, 12:16:49 AM

This one is a real dilemma for many FE believers as adopting the Zetetic method and doing ones own research with even basic equipment may lead to answers  that some may find uncomfortable. One really great amature Astro photographer is Damien Peach. He gives lots of tips on how to do it for yourself and find some real answers in the true Zetetic tradition. Or you can just look at his pictures.
http://www.damianpeach.com

I have tried to claim that the simplest astronomical observations prove that many claims by flat earthers are simply untrue as in this recent post:
Flat Earth General / Re: When did Neil Armstrong find out it was all a hoax? « Message by rabinoz on October 24, 2018, 10:33:10 AM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=78163.msg2110510;topicseen#msg2110510) and here:

Quote from: rabinoz on December 22, 2017, 01:47:20 PM

Quote from: Jane on December 22, 2017, 12:53:21 PM

Astronomy is a science, and like all science it builds upon itself. If you question one of the foundations, everything that follows from said foundation is inadmissible.

But the actual observations and measurements are still admissible unless astronomers are also part of the great conspiracy too.

Quote from: Jane

Once you take out a round Earth the knock-on effects are incredible. It's less ignoring astronomy, more by necessity replacing it because a foundation's been changed pretty drastically.

This is what I try to get over time and time again!
OK, I might do it badly, but the fact remains that the simplest observations refute much of the flat earth model, if not the actual shape of the earth.

Astronomy makes observations about the celestial objects, including the sun and moon. Whatever the shape of the earth, those measurements exist.

I don't have the math background to tackle interpreting those measurements over a flat earth.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

So when is some serious Flat Earth Astronomer ::) going to apply those observations to their flat earth model?

This seems to be the attitude of many flat-earthers to the planets and stars:

Quote from: rabinoz on August 24, 2018, 07:43:52 PM

This seems to be the attitude of many flat earthers:

Quote from: Marciano on January 09, 2016, 09:18:51 PM

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  I mean after all, they're just lights in the sky.  How much can we expect to ever know about them? 

In any case, you might like Zetetic Astronomy.  Zetetic means "seeker."  As in, seeker of truth. 

http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm (http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm)

Little did Marciano realise, but those "lights in the sky", especially if we include the sun and moon make things very uncomfortable for flat-earthers.

It’s strange how many of those FE statements you have reposted appear to fly in the face of the Zetetic method. It begs the question if they are against the scientific method and don’t really adhere to Zetetic principles what are they using to come up with their ideas and beliefs?

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 27, 2018, 02:33:25 PM

Quote from: Lonegranger on October 27, 2018, 06:15:13 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on October 27, 2018, 01:50:37 AM

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
So when is some serious Flat Earth Astronomer ::) going to apply those observations to their flat earth model?

This seems to be the attitude of many flat-earthers to the planets and stars:

Quote from: rabinoz on August 24, 2018, 07:43:52 PM

This seems to be the attitude of many flat earthers:

Quote from: Marciano on January 09, 2016, 09:18:51 PM

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  I mean after all, they're just lights in the sky.  How much can we expect to ever know about them? 

In any case, you might like Zetetic Astronomy.  Zetetic means "seeker."  As in, seeker of truth. 

http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm (http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm)

Little did Marciano realise, but those "lights in the sky", especially if we include the sun and moon make things very uncomfortable for flat-earthers.

It’s strange how many of those FE statements you have reposted appear to fly in the face of the Zetetic method. It begs the question if they are against the scientific method and don’t really adhere to Zetetic principles what are they using to come up with their ideas and beliefs?

Their Zetetic  principles seem limited to:

• The earth looks flat:. Certainly, an ocean horizon from low altitude is almost perfectly flat but that fits a Globe as well as a flat earth.
  
  
• The horizon always rises to your eye level: "From a plane or a mountain, however high you ascend - the horizon will rise to your eye level."
  But as you ascend there is an easily measurable dip between the local horizontal and the horizon.
  And the horizon only seems to rise to eye-level, mainly due to perspective as the distance to the horizon is so much greater than the height above the horizon.
  
  
• Sometimes less of distant objects seems to be hidden than that calculated by the simple application of their "curvature formula".
  But these are usually anomalous events, though sometimes not trivial to explain.
  And when the obvious effects of "curving water" are shown, such as sunsets, these are "explained away" with very non-Zetetic" hypotheses.

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Lamaface on October 27, 2018, 10:59:58 PM

If the answer to the question in the OP is “round”, I also would like to know what causes the planets to be shaped as a globe.

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 28, 2018, 12:11:30 AM

Quote from: Lamaface on October 27, 2018, 10:59:58 PM

If the answer to the question in the OP is “round”, I also would like to know what causes the planets to be shaped as a globe.

• In "Flat Earth Astronomy":, who knows? This seems to be the attitude of many flat earthers:
  Quote from: Marciano on January 09, 2016, 09:18:51 PM

  Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  I mean after all, they're just lights in the sky.  How much can we expect to ever know about them? 
  In any case, you might like Zetetic Astronomy.  Zetetic means "seeker."  As in, seeker of truth. Zetetic Astronomy, CHAPTER XII. THE CAUSE OF TIDES. (http://sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za30.htm)

  
  
• In the Heliocentric Solar System: Gravitation pulls large objects into a near spherical shape, see:
            Calculating the Potato Radius of Asteroids using the Height of Mt. Everest by M. E. Caplan (a .pdf file) (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.04297.pdf)
            Quarks & Coffee, Why are some moons spherical while others are shaped like potatoes? (http://quarksandcoffee.com/index.php/2015/10/29/why-are-some-moons-spherical-but-others-are-shaped-like-potatoes/)
            The Potato Radius: a Lower Minimum Size for Dwarf Planets (a .pdf file) (https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1004/1004.1091.pdf)
  

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Lamaface on October 28, 2018, 05:07:00 AM

Thanks for linking Quarks and Coffee, it makes for some ideal shit-lit :)

Now if only FE theorist could link me a coherent sensemaking doc of their own I’d gladly read it while I’m dropping my kids off at the pool

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 28, 2018, 05:34:51 AM

Quote from: Lamaface on October 28, 2018, 05:07:00 AM

Thanks for linking Quarks and Coffee, it makes for some ideal shit-lit :)

Now if only FE theorist could link me a coherent sensemaking doc of their own I’d gladly read it while I’m dropping my kids off at the pool

How can you use "FE theorist" and "coherent sensemaking" in the same sentence? Is that a "paradox", an "oxymoron" or just "self-contradictory"?

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: Lamaface on October 28, 2018, 06:34:11 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on October 28, 2018, 05:34:51 AM

Quote from: Lamaface on October 28, 2018, 05:07:00 AM

Thanks for linking Quarks and Coffee, it makes for some ideal shit-lit :)

Now if only FE theorist could link me a coherent sensemaking doc of their own I’d gladly read it while I’m dropping my kids off at the pool

How can you use "FE theorist" and "coherent sensemaking" in the same sentence? Is that a "paradox", an "oxymoron" or just "self-contradictory"?

It’s a genuine inquiry, admittedly slightly sarcastic

Title: Re: Are other planets flat or round?
Post by: rabinoz on October 28, 2018, 05:36:05 PM

Quote from: Lamaface on October 28, 2018, 06:34:11 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on October 28, 2018, 05:34:51 AM

How can you use "FE theorist" and "coherent sensemaking" in the same sentence? Is that a "paradox", an "oxymoron" or just "self-contradictory"?

It’s a genuine inquiry, admittedly slightly sarcastic

I gathered as much but was being "admittedly slightly quite sarcastic" ;).