It's time for getting a joy athmoplane. Now forget about globe's non existent claim of 'prediction capability', various daytime durations, failed timing of sunrise and sunset.Why?
Forget about the equinox table that is so miserable, especially if viewed from globe theories.
Every place in the world should have had 12 hours of daytime, sunrise at 6.00 AM etc etc.No, not exactly! The 12 hours would be:
The actual altitude of the centre of the Sun is about -0°50’ (negative value means below the horizon). About -0°16’ of this actual altitude is the apparent radius of the Sun. The remaining -0°34’[2] is the effect of atmospheric refraction under average atmospheric condition, leading to the apparent effect of advanced sunrise and delayed sunset. For example in Hong Kong, the atmospheric refraction causes the sunrise and sunset to appear about 2 minutes early and late respectively when compared to the situation without the atmospheric refraction. In fact, the times of sunrise and sunset announced by the Hong Kong Observatory have already included the effect of the atmospheric refraction so that users do not need to calculate the times by themselves.
Location | Latitude | Sun Rise - Sunset | Day Length | |||
Casey Station Antarctica | 66° S | 6:22 am (92°) - 6:39 pm (268°) | 12hr 17min | |||
Macquarie Island | 55° S | 6:12 am (91°) - 6:23 pm (269°) | 12hr 11min | |||
Brisbane, QLD (here) | 27° S | 5:36 am (90°) - 5:44 pm (269°) | 12hr 7min | |||
Denpasar, Bali | 9° S | 6:08 am (90°) - 6:14 pm (270°) | 12hr 6min |
I don't know what the sun does on your topsy-turvy flat earth but on the usual ice-wall lay-out with the sun circling over the equatorHow does the sun manage to rise almost exactly due east at either equinox on any flat earth model with the sun circling above the equator - you work that one out.
Owh forget about it in this happy day for a while. It's time to rejoice. :o 8)
Yeah, Rab, it's time to dance while twisting the body, not twisting the evidence. :o 8)But twisting the evidence is all you ever do.
Yeah, Rab, it's time to dance while twisting the body, not twisting the evidence. :o 8)I don't dance and don't twist the evidence.
Darn it! I slept through it... AAGGGHHH:) Don't worry the sun will rise in almost the same direction and at almost the same time tomorrow and the next day :), for example here, near Brisbane, Queensland:
i'll wake up on time tomorrow
Date | Sun Rise - Sunset: Time (dir) | Day Length | ||
Sept 23, 2018 | 5:36 am (90°) - 5:44 pm (269°) | 12 hrs 07 min | ||
Sept 24, 2018 | 5:35 am (91°) - 5:44 pm (269°) | 12 hrs 09 min | ||
Sept 25, 2018 | 5:34 am (91°) - 5:45 pm (269°) | 12 hrs 11 min |
I just got back an hr ago from my bike ride to watch the day after the equinox sunrise, cloudy of course. And I unfortunately just remembered to check the sky every few minutes....was the earth flat?I imagine it looked pretty flat.
| (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6v42enopv13fzyi/Sunrise%20-%20Black%20Sea%20HD%2C%20kalcymc.jpg?dl=1) Video of Sunrise across Black Sea - looks pretty flat. (https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=XwkdmHt_Ez8&gl=CO&hl=es-419) | (https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8eqhm2mk1s3bcs/Sunrise%2020180723%2006.25.JPG?dl=1) Sunrise from here - hard to tell if it's flat or not. |
Ushuaia sunrise failed time?? Beyond 7.00 AM??So sorry, no fail at Ushuaia either! Clock time means nothing. It's solar time that matters.
Not really. 8)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentina/ushuaia
Ushuaia sunrise failed time?? Beyond 7.00 AM??Exact sunrise time varies based on where you are in the time zone. Not every place can be exactly 7 am. You prove, yet again, only that you have no clue of what you are talking about.
Not really. 8)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/argentina/ushuaia
"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."
>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going. ;)
"Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."
>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going. ;)
How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught? Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else. Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite. Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?
In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?
Which unfortunately do not work! Tough about that, Danang, but your ideas don't work and the heliocentric Globe does."Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."
>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going. ;)
How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught? Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else. Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite. Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?
In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?
After unlearning into zero school knowledge, starting to select and accept things under own verification, as well as to form new concepts.
Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.
We have never seen any sort of documented observation of this eastwards rising sun phenomenon from the equator.
Furthermore, the length of day varies to be more or less than 12 hours throughout the year. There are two days when the length of day reaches about 12 hours. It is of no surprise that there are a couple of days which reflect these values and which historically represent the changing of the seasons that are defined by the length of the days.
While this 12 hour day is logically reasonable, we have not seen evidence that it holds for all points on earth worldwide.
This "equinox proof" is completely hypothetical. Every year it comes up, and every year you guys fail to provide evidence for your premise, and continue to make baseless claims without evidence.
Lets make it clear: If you have no evidence, there is no reason to amuse your claims at all.
Based on the last ten years, here is what will follow in this thread: We will see further claims and appeals to authority and incredulity, but we will see no actual evidence in any form.
Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.
This is not correct, Tom. The celestial equator (CE) intersects the geometric horizon at points due east and due west of an observer anywhere on the surface of the spherical earth except at the poles (but at the poles, the CE is the geometric horizon, and east and west have no meaning). At the moment of the equinox, the center of the sun is on the CE (that's what defines an equinox), therefore, geometrically, the center of the sun rises due east and sets due west for an observer on the surface of the spherical earth at the moment of an equinox (except at the poles).
Why is the equinox important for permaculture?
One of the first questions my PDC instructor posed to us was, “where does the sun rise?" Well everyone knows the answer to that; the sun rises in the east. No brainer. Alas, we were wrong. Unless you live at the equator, the sun does not rise directly in the east.
Context matter. Seems the article is talking about year round.
Calculating the Equinoxes
Most dictionaries erroneously define the equinox as: “the time or date (twice each year) at which the Sun crosses the celestial equator, when day and night are of equal length (about September 22 and March 20)”. However, there is no place on Earth where the day and night are of equal length on the given days.
Latitude Determines Day Length
In fact, latitude determines day length. Even if day and night aren’t exactly equal on the day of the equinox, there are days when day and night are both very close to 12 hours. However, this date depends on the location’s latitude, and can vary by as much as several weeks. The table shows approximate dates for when day and night are as similar as possible according to latitude.
(https://wiki.tfes.org/images/f/fa/Equilux_table.png)
Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.
This is not correct, Tom. The celestial equator (CE) intersects the geometric horizon at points due east and due west of an observer anywhere on the surface of the spherical earth except at the poles (but at the poles, the CE is the geometric horizon, and east and west have no meaning). At the moment of the equinox, the center of the sun is on the CE (that's what defines an equinox), therefore, geometrically, the center of the sun rises due east and sets due west for an observer on the surface of the spherical earth at the moment of an equinox (except at the poles).
No. Read more.
From the Permaculture Research Institute (https://permaculturenews.org/2013/03/18/its-the-equinox-do-you-know-where-your-sun-is/) we read the following:QuoteWhy is the equinox important for permaculture?
One of the first questions my PDC instructor posed to us was, “where does the sun rise?" Well everyone knows the answer to that; the sun rises in the east. No brainer. Alas, we were wrong. Unless you live at the equator, the sun does not rise directly in the east.
Irrespective of where you are on the globe, the Sun will always rise exactly East and set exactly West on two days: March 21 and September 21 which are the two equinoxes.
I skipped over the rest of your post because I am certain it is just more nonsense from someone who does not know how astronomy works on his own model.
Provide evidence for your claims.
Either put up or shut up. You need to prove and provide documented observations for each and every one of your assumptions which you believe to be true.
You clearly do not know what your own model even predicts, let alone have evidence that those predictions hold true.
I'm definitely not at the equator and I did see the sun rise due East and set due West on the equinox.
The sun is only directly over the tropic of Cancer at local midday for the summer solstice. An observer on the tropic of cancer would not see the sun rise due East on the solstice but rather they would see it rise in the North East (like everyone else). But they would see it rise due East on the equinox.
"This Time-Lapse Shows The Sun Only Rises Due East Two Days a Year
This time-lapse was created by Tobias Hoerburger, who took a photo looking due east over the German city of Regensburg 10 minutes after sunrise each day between 21 March 2015 and 20 March 2016."
Why? Because the sun is very far away and many times the size of the Earth. It is directly over the equator at midday and South for anyone in the North and North for anyone in the South but it still rises due East. Did you actually bother to look on the equinox? I and many others did. It rose in the East. and in the days preceding it, it rose North of East and since then has risen South of East.I'm definitely not at the equator and I did see the sun rise due East and set due West on the equinox.
The sun is only directly over the tropic of Cancer at local midday for the summer solstice. An observer on the tropic of cancer would not see the sun rise due East on the solstice but rather they would see it rise in the North East (like everyone else). But they would see it rise due East on the equinox.
Draw a diagram.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAI8Eme.png)
In the above diagram the earth is on its side. We are the sun that is directly over the equator on Equinox day. The observers on earth are marked with a red X. Why would the observers who are not on the equator see us rising from directly Eastwards?
East is at a right angle to North, and their compasses would not show us on their Eastern position.
Learn moar astronomy. The Round Earth model does not predict that the sun rises exactly from the east on equinox for everywhere on earth, only from points along the equator.Incorrect.
We have never seen any sort of documented observation of this eastwards rising sun phenomenon from the equator.You had a chance to document your own observation about 10 days ago from your location. It most likely could have been done within your zero dollar research budget.
Can be confirmed via google maps/streetview:
(http://)
I'm definitely not at the equator and I did see the sun rise due East and set due West on the equinox.
The sun is only directly over the tropic of Cancer at local midday for the summer solstice. An observer on the tropic of cancer would not see the sun rise due East on the solstice but rather they would see it rise in the North East (like everyone else). But they would see it rise due East on the equinox.
Draw a diagram.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAI8Eme.png)
In the above diagram the earth is on its side. We are the sun that is directly over the equator on Equinox day. The observers on earth are marked with a red X. Why would the observers who are not on the equator see us rising from directly Eastwards?
East is at a right angle to North, and their compasses would not show us on their Eastern position.
Why? Because the sun is very far away and many times the size of the Earth. It is directly over the equator at midday and South for anyone in the North and North for anyone in the South but it still rises due East. Did you actually bother to look on the equinox? I and many others did. It rose in the East. and in the days preceding it, it rose North of East and since then has risen South of East.
And again, it does NOT rise in the East on the solstices, no matter what your location. All perfectly explained with a globe.
You tell me, because I live about 27° south of the equator and here the sun rises as new as my compass can determine.I'm definitely not at the equator and I did see the sun rise due East and set due West on the equinox.
The sun is only directly over the tropic of Cancer at local midday for the summer solstice. An observer on the tropic of cancer would not see the sun rise due East on the solstice but rather they would see it rise in the North East (like everyone else). But they would see it rise due East on the equinox.
Draw a diagram.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAI8Eme.png)
In the above diagram the earth is on its side. We are the sun that is directly over the equator on Equinox day. The observers on earth are marked with a red X. Why would the observers who are not on the equator see us rising from directly Eastwards?
East is at a right angle to North, and their compasses would not show us on their Eastern position.
Can be confirmed via google maps/streetview:
(http://)
- That guy is only 17 degrees south of the equator when the goal is to show that the sun rises from the east at locations away from the equator
- He is doing it the day after the equinox
- He is a Round Earther "trying to prove Flat Earth wrong" and has multiple anti-FE videos
- The road he picked has curves in it
RET needs better evidence than that.
You tell me, because I live about 27° south of the equator and here the sun rises as new as my compass can determine.
And I would invite anyone else who has actually measured it to post their directions.
The YouTube channel Flat Earth Math (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTDz58kK5bdffWLSx4zgAFA) is dedicated to people making their own measurements that are relevant to the flat earth ~ Globe earth issue.
There has been a whole series on Equinox observations and measurements. This is the introductory one:
]https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=UEkq6jFosrA] (https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=UEkq6jFosrA)
Equinox Observations: Flat Earth + Globe Earth: Introduction, Flat Earth Math
It might be worth looking at.
PS: Remember that the Sun is about 93,000,000 miles above the equator of the Globe.
Quote- That guy is only 17 degrees south of the equator when the goal is to show that the sun rises from the east at locations away from the equator
- He is doing it the day after the equinox
- He is a Round Earther "trying to prove Flat Earth wrong" and has multiple anti-FE videos
- The road he picked has curves in it
RET needs better evidence than that.
- 1200 miles south of the equator is not "away from the equator"? Seriously?
- Yep, a day after it. Do you expect the sun to magically fly off in a radically different direction in less than 24 hours?
- So, what's your point? You complained the other guy didn't have a compass. This guy does.
- What? What's your point?
Lastly, what would accept as evidence? Specifically.
There should be mountains of evidence for this phenomenon from conventional sources.
The best you can find is some guy who lives near the equator and who took a video on a curvy road, specifically to win some Flat Earth debate on the internet. That evidence is certainly not good enough.
I live 1200 miles from Amarillo, Texas, do I live near Amarillo? I'm 4 states away.
Curvy road? You can look on a map at his coordinates and see exactly the direction he is pointed.
So what would be good enough? You keep avoiding the question.
Context matter. Seems the article is talking about year round.
No. It is not. It is the sentence right below the heading of "Why is the equinox important for permaculture?"
In the Round Earth model the sun does not rise from directly east on the equinox day, except at the equator.
Think about it. If you are located on the Tropic of Capricorn why would the sun come out of the earth from a direction that is directly Eastwards at a time when the sun is located over the equator?
The sun would only come out of the horizon directly Eastwards when the sun was over the Tropic of Capricorn.
It's a myth.
Here is another myth: The length of day and night is the same everywhere on earth during equinox.
In 2015 Deborah Scherrer of the Standford Solar Center provided a document titled Ancient Observatories - Timeless Knowledge (https://pingpdf.com/pdf-ancient-observatories-stanford-solar-center-stanford-university.html). On page 39 we see the following:QuoteCalculating the Equinoxes
Most dictionaries erroneously define the equinox as: “the time or date (twice each year) at which the Sun crosses the celestial equator, when day and night are of equal length (about September 22 and March 20)”. However, there is no place on Earth where the day and night are of equal length on the given days.
Latitude Determines Day Length
In fact, latitude determines day length. Even if day and night aren’t exactly equal on the day of the equinox, there are days when day and night are both very close to 12 hours. However, this date depends on the location’s latitude, and can vary by as much as several weeks. The table shows approximate dates for when day and night are as similar as possible according to latitude.
<table> (https://wiki.tfes.org/images/f/fa/Equilux_table.png)
As we can see, the equal days and equal nights on equinox does not really happen at all. In fact, closer to the equator the time of equal day and equal night (the "equilax") is separated from the date of the equinox by several weeks.
Geometry Affects Day Length
On the equator, the day and night stay approximately the same length all year round, but the day will always appear a little longer than 12 hours. On the equinoxes, the geometric center of the Sun is above the horizon for 12 hours, and you might think that the length of the day (hours of daylight) would be 12 hours too. However, ‘sunrise’ is defined as the moment the upper edge of the Sun's disk becomes visible above the horizon – not when the center of the Sun is visible. In the same sense, ‘sunset’ refers to the moment the Sun's upper edge, not the center, disappears below the horizon. The time it takes for the Sun to fully rise and set, which is several minutes, is added to the day and subtracted from the night, and therefore the equinox day lasts a little longer than 12 hours.
Refraction Affects Day Length
Another problem is that the Earth's atmosphere refracts, or bends, sunlight. This causes the Sun’s upper edge to be visible from Earth several minutes before the edge actually reaches the horizon. The same thing happens at sunset, when you can see the Sun for several minutes after it has actually dipped under the horizon. So, every day on Earth – including the days of the equinoxes – is at least 6 minutes longer than it would have been without this refraction. Making this even more complicated -- the extent of refraction depends on atmospheric pressure and temperature.
Those are illustrations, not proof. Where is the evidence?
The equinox is full of myth.
How can you maintain that an observer at the Tropic of Cancer would see the sun come out of the horizon directly eastwards both on the day the sun is over the Tropic of Cancer and when the the day that the sun is over the equator on Equinox day?
That is an egregious error.
The sun is rising from Northeastern to Southeastern positions throughout the year, and it makes that back and fourth pattern only once per year.
The "equal day and night on Equinox" is a myth as well, as we saw in my last post. Dictionaries, astronomy websites, all wrong. The Stanford Solar Observatory scientist said it herself.
How about proving your assertions?
After every post I will ask for evidence.
You will continue to have no evidence, and due to this lack of evidence, you will continue to lose this debate. Beating you guys is very easy. It is getting to be trivial and boring.
If truth were on your side you would have mountain of evidence to show us.
Your video link does not work, but since posting non-evidence is your trend, I will assume that, once again, you do not really have any evidence for your position.
Edit: I was able to get the URL by quoting your post.
There is no compass in the video. My previous comment is confirmed.
If truth were on your side you would have mountain of evidence to show us.
We do. We're constantly offering it. It's either summarily ignored, or you slink away and pretend it never happened.
I didn't say I explained it. I said it is explained by the globe. If you can't visualize in three dimensions that is not my problem. You already proved you didn't understand what happens on the solstice when you thought the Sun should rise to the East when the Sun is over the Tropic of Cancer at midday.I'm definitely not at the equator and I did see the sun rise due East and set due West on the equinox.
The sun is only directly over the tropic of Cancer at local midday for the summer solstice. An observer on the tropic of cancer would not see the sun rise due East on the solstice but rather they would see it rise in the North East (like everyone else). But they would see it rise due East on the equinox.
Draw a diagram.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAI8Eme.png)
In the above diagram the earth is on its side. We are the sun that is directly over the equator on Equinox day. The observers on earth are marked with a red X. Why would the observers who are not on the equator see us rising from directly Eastwards?
East is at a right angle to North, and their compasses would not show us on their Eastern position.
Why? Because the sun is very far away and many times the size of the Earth. It is directly over the equator at midday and South for anyone in the North and North for anyone in the South but it still rises due East. Did you actually bother to look on the equinox? I and many others did. It rose in the East. and in the days preceding it, it rose North of East and since then has risen South of East.
And again, it does NOT rise in the East on the solstices, no matter what your location. All perfectly explained with a globe.
How is it explained? You need to explain why it would rise directly eastwards for all observers on that day.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAI8Eme.png)
In the above diagram the earth is on its side. We are the sun that is directly over the equator on Equinox day. The observers on earth are marked with a red X. Why would the observers who are not on the equator see us rising from directly Eastwards?
East is at a right angle to North, and their compasses would not show us on their Eastern position.
Why? Because the sun is very far away and many times the size of the Earth. It is directly over the equator at midday and South for anyone in the North and North for anyone in the South but it still rises due East. Did you actually bother to look on the equinox? I and many others did. It rose in the East. and in the days preceding it, it rose North of East and since then has risen South of East.
And again, it does NOT rise in the East on the solstices, no matter what your location. All perfectly explained with a globe.
How is it explained? You need to explain why it would rise directly eastwards for all observers on that day.
Which unfortunately do not work! Tough about that, Danang, but your ideas don't work and the heliocentric Globe does."Now explain how your upside-down flat-earth predicts this."
>> Since I've unlearnt everything from school, and started from zero, for the time being I've had no claim about many things. Research is on going. ;)
How are you typing and using words if you have refuted all information you have ever been taught? Literally everything you do is something you learned from somebody else. Being incapable of understanding the difference between credible information and complete bullshit is not a sign of intelligence...in fact just the opposite. Since there is no way you will ever be able to discover and learn anything significant on your own, who will you trust to teach you?
In order for information to be considered valid in your silly world, do you have to agree with all of it?
After unlearning into zero school knowledge, starting to select and accept things under own verification, as well as to form new concepts.
Hi speed sun at sunrise time and then deaccelerate towards noon.Incorrect! If you think otherwise, prove it!
While certain people - who believe in globe and don't believe in firmament - claim the earth rotates with steady speed. Are you kidding?Nope! I'm not kidding. Take Quito, Ecuador, on the equator (because it's easy)
"Acceleration/deacceleration" of the sun is among hot topics in astronomy. People question this phenomenon all the time. 8)::) They do ::)? Please give me some references to this questioning and how the " 'Acceleration/deacceleration' of the sun" affects the rotation of earth.
Your video link does not work, but since posting non-evidence is your trend, I will assume that, once again, you do not really have any evidence for your position.
Edit: I was able to get the URL by quoting your post.
I'm not sure what went wrong. The previous post was edited so the link at least works now. At any rate, apologies for the inconvenience.QuoteThere is no compass in the video. My previous comment is confirmed.
Not so fast, my friend! The video shows (and the comment names) a landmark, the comment provides the observer's latitude and longitude (to about 40 feet), and the video pans his location so the location (and, thus, direction to the landmark) can be independently verified by anyone so inclined.See?If truth were on your side you would have mountain of evidence to show us.We do. We're constantly offering it. It's either summarily ignored, or you slink away and pretend it never happened.
"Acceleration/deacceleration" of the sun is among hot topics in astronomy. People question this phenomenon all the time. 8)::) They do ::)? Please give me some references to this questioning and how the " 'Acceleration/deacceleration' of the sun" affects the rotation of earth.
But the apparent movement of the sun across the sky is almost entirely due to the rotation of the earth once in ;) approximately ;) 23.934472 hours.
The remaining 235.901 seconds (on average) are due to earth's orbiting the sun.
This component of the length of a solar day does vary slightly during the year leading to the solar (sundial) time getting ahead or behind "clock time".
;) Late News ;).
I could not find any " 'Acceleration/deacceleration' of the sun"
but I did find this: Atmospheric acceleration and Earth-expansion deceleration of the Earth rotation by WenbinShen. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1674984716300842)
I don't think I'll change my clocks just yet - they are talking about milliseconds per century!