The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: ThatsInteresting on August 12, 2018, 08:16:10 PM

Title: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: ThatsInteresting on August 12, 2018, 08:16:10 PM
Flat-earthers often say that NASA fakes being in space by just recording underwater or in a zero-gravity plane.
Besides the obvious, there are two things completely wrong with that statement.

1. If they were filmed underwater, the astronauts would look wet or have water on them, yet they don't. For example, with female astronauts when they are moving through space, their hair never appears to be wet or damp. There are also never any air bubbles coming off of the astronauts while in space.

2. If they we filmed in a zero-gravity plane, there would be constant cuts in NASA footage and astronauts would have to make constant adjustments. Zero-gravity planes only give about 30 seconds of reduced gravity or weightlessness yet NASA has live streams and interviews that go on for hours with astronauts who are experiencing zero-gravity and have no problems while doing so.

Where is this evidence of NASA "faking" being in space?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 13, 2018, 12:25:34 AM
You forgot:

3. CGI
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: ThatsInteresting on August 13, 2018, 12:47:01 AM
True, flat-earthers can say that NASA did it with CGI but since NASA does things like live streams and live interviews, there's really no way to edit footage that quickly with such great quality that would convince anyone of it is true.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 13, 2018, 01:03:04 AM
True, flat-earthers can say that NASA did it with CGI but since NASA does things like live streams and live interviews, there's really no way to edit footage that quickly with such great quality that would convince anyone of it is true.

There is no way to tell when the live stream was recorded.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: ThatsInteresting on August 13, 2018, 02:01:05 AM
There is no way to tell when the live stream was recorded.

You can verify where the ISS station is, both objectively and personal. The ISS has its own tracker to show where it is at. You yourself can also verify NASA's tracking system, look up and see the ISS with your own eyes. Plus there have been live interviews where they interact with other people.

Even if they were "CGI", they still face the 2 other problems I brought up previously.

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Didymus on August 13, 2018, 02:02:05 AM
True, flat-earthers can say that NASA did it with CGI but since NASA does things like live streams and live interviews, there's really no way to edit footage that quickly with such great quality that would convince anyone of it is true.

There is no way to tell when the live stream was recorded.
I believe the 1965 footage was recorded in 1965.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Lamaface on August 13, 2018, 03:01:26 AM
Even with today's technology, there is no way that CGI is able to get through the uncanny valley and deliver something that is so convincing that we accept it as true. No way.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 13, 2018, 04:17:19 AM
Flat-earthers often say that NASA fakes being in space by just recording underwater or in a zero-gravity plane.
Besides the obvious, there are two things completely wrong with that statement.

1. If they were filmed underwater, the astronauts would look wet or have water on them, yet they don't. For example, with female astronauts when they are moving through space, their hair never appears to be wet or damp. There are also never any air bubbles coming off of the astronauts while in space.
Maybe that's because "astronauts while in space" wear "space suits" so their hair would never contact space or water.
But there is an easy way to tell if the astronaut in in a neutral buoyancy tank or in space,  see:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ehuwo8si50662l/Thomas%20Pesquet%20EVA%20training%20in%20Neutral%20Buoyancy%20Tank.jpg?dl=1)
Thomas Pesquet EVA training in Neutral Buoyancy Tank.
         


(https://img.purch.com/w/660/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA2My84NjAvb3JpZ2luYWwvcGVzcXVldC1zcGFjZXdhbGsuanBn)
Thomas Pesquet in spacewalk from the ISS.
Notice the difference in the relative sizes of Thomas Pesquet's head in the two photos.
The water on the outside and air on the inside of his helmet makes a concave lens.

Quote from: ThatsInteresting
2. If they we filmed in a zero-gravity plane, there would be constant cuts in NASA footage and astronauts would have to make constant adjustments. Zero-gravity planes only give about 30 seconds of reduced gravity or weightlessness yet NASA has live streams and interviews that go on for hours with astronauts who are experiencing zero-gravity and have no problems while doing so.
That would be hard to fake.

Quote from: ThatsInteresting
Where is this evidence of NASA "faking" being in space?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 13, 2018, 11:53:23 AM
The most funniest thing is when astronauts go ‘outside’.
Always tightening some ‘bolt and nut’  during undertakings that last for hours.
During the Apollo moon missions with ultra thin and shaky constructions, nothing broke down not even during impact of the landing.
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.

People believe these are real event like the live peformance between space guitar guy and band earth......there is no boundary whatsoever to sell ‘space’.
It doesn’t matter how it looks, what outragious claims are made, what utter garbage they show, it will always be considered real outerspace events and pictures.

Now i’ll have to wait till Rabinoz & co will cry faul  ;D ;D
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 13, 2018, 01:53:10 PM
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.
You're right! It does make for good tv. It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 13, 2018, 02:35:43 PM

It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!

WOW, that's awesome! I've only seen it on television.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 13, 2018, 02:38:28 PM
WOW, that's awesome! I've only seen it on television.
I know! It is awesome.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 13, 2018, 03:39:01 PM
Always tightening some ‘bolt and nut’  during undertakings that last for hours.
During the Apollo moon missions with ultra thin and shaky constructions, nothing broke down not even during impact of the landing.
The Apollo moon missions used objects constructed on Earth and then in service in space for a short period of time.
The ISS has been in space for a much longer period of time.
As such, the ISS is much more likely to need maintenance.

Also, during the Apollo missions various things broke. In one, they aborted the primary mission due to a failure in the life support systems.
In another, they broke a camera by pointing it at the sun.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: ThatsInteresting on August 13, 2018, 08:18:13 PM
Maybe that's because "astronauts while in space" wear "space suits" so their hair would never contact space or water.
But there is an easy way to tell if the astronaut in in a neutral buoyancy tank or in space,  see:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ehuwo8si50662l/Thomas%20Pesquet%20EVA%20training%20in%20Neutral%20Buoyancy%20Tank.jpg?dl=1)
Thomas Pesquet EVA training in Neutral Buoyancy Tank.
         


(https://img.purch.com/w/660/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA2My84NjAvb3JpZ2luYWwvcGVzcXVldC1zcGFjZXdhbGsuanBn)
Thomas Pesquet in spacewalk from the ISS.
Notice the difference in the relative sizes of Thomas Pesquet's head in the two photos.
The water on the outside and air on the inside of his helmet makes a concave lens.

Quote from: ThatsInteresting
2. If they we filmed in a zero-gravity plane, there would be constant cuts in NASA footage and astronauts would have to make constant adjustments. Zero-gravity planes only give about 30 seconds of reduced gravity or weightlessness yet NASA has live streams and interviews that go on for hours with astronauts who are experiencing zero-gravity and have no problems while doing so.
That would be hard to fake.

I know that flat-earthers might believe that NASA films their footage underwater with their space suits.
What I meant was that if flat-earthers were to deny that fact that it would be impossible to film in a zero-gravity plane and instead say that they filmed in underwater; that wouldn't be possible because you'd be able to tell that they were wet.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 13, 2018, 08:42:37 PM
I know that flat-earthers might believe that NASA films their footage underwater with their space suits.
What I meant was that if flat-earthers were to deny that fact that it would be impossible to film in a zero-gravity plane and instead say that they filmed in underwater; that wouldn't be possible because you'd be able to tell that they were wet.
Yes, they have claimed that. It's just that I thought your "wet hair" reasoning would have soon have been dismissed.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 13, 2018, 09:42:34 PM
I know that flat-earthers might believe that NASA films their footage underwater with their space suits.
What I meant was that if flat-earthers were to deny that fact that it would be impossible to film in a zero-gravity plane and instead say that they filmed in underwater; that wouldn't be possible because you'd be able to tell that they were wet.
One big issue is what people think "wet" things look like.
Most of the time it doesn't look like that because it is wet, but because it has a small amount of water while being surrounded in air, creating a surface or interface between the water and air.

Hair is a good example. When people think of wet hair they think of it being dark and sticking together, but that is entirely due to the air-water interface. The hair sticks together like 2 tiny water droplets merge and stick together because they want to minimise the area of the interface with the air.
When you are underwater that surface doesn't exist near your hair and thus doesn't stick your hair together.

For the most part, underwater and dry look quite similar.
The killer is when they aren't wearing the suit and are breathing, which they can't do underwater without something to let them breathe.
And that under water, things aren't weightless.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: hoppy on August 14, 2018, 04:53:31 AM
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.
You're right! It does make for good tv. It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!
This is spoken like a truly brainwashed shill, pitiful.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 14, 2018, 10:41:31 AM
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.
You're right! It does make for good tv. It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!
This is spoken like a truly brainwashed shill, pitiful.

You keep shilling for the Bible and I’ll keep shilling for science.

Now, back to reality:

1) To Jack’s point, there’s no visible breathing apparatus, so no, they are not under water.

2) The vomit comet parabolic flights can’t sustain weightlessness for longer than 45 seconds max. Many, many videos of humans floating in the ISS last for 10’s of minutes if not longer. So, no, it’s not the vom-com.

3) CGI. Not currently advanced enough to be as convincing as many of the videos from the ISS. And if you know anything about CGI, due to render times, we currently don’t have the technology to simulate weightlessness live for such extended durations shown in ISS footage. So no, it’s not CGI.

Here’s where someone would say, “Well maybe NASA has some secret CGI technology.” I would say, “Maybe NASA has not so secret technology that can put humans in space and have been doing so for 50+ years."
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Themightykabool on August 14, 2018, 11:14:10 AM
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.
You're right! It does make for good tv. It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!
This is spoken like a truly brainwashed shill, pitiful.

You keep shilling for the Bible and I’ll keep shilling for science.

Now, back to reality:

1) To Jack’s point, there’s no visible breathing apparatus, so no, they are not under water.

2) The vomit comet parabolic flights can’t sustain weightlessness for longer than 45 seconds max. Many, many videos of humans floating in the ISS last for 10’s of minutes if not longer. So, no, it’s not the vom-com.

3) CGI. Not currently advanced enough to be as convincing as many of the videos from the ISS. And if you know anything about CGI, due to render times, we currently don’t have the technology to simulate weightlessness live for such extended durations shown in ISS footage. So no, it’s not CGI.

Here’s where someone would say, “Well maybe NASA has some secret CGI technology.” I would say, “Maybe NASA has not so secret technology that can put humans in space and have been doing so for 50+ years."

1.   Haaaahaha.   You dhouldve started it with a "dafuq?" for added flare.

2. 45 sec - could it not be spliced?   Atomic blond and Bushwick style.   
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 14, 2018, 11:36:22 AM
Now, back to reality:

3) CGI. Not currently advanced enough to be as convincing as many of the videos from the ISS. And if you know anything about CGI, due to render times, we currently don’t have the technology to simulate weightlessness live for such extended durations shown in ISS footage. So no, it’s not CGI.

Here’s where someone would say, “Well maybe NASA has some secret CGI technology.” I would say, “Maybe NASA has not so secret technology that can put humans in space and have been doing so for 50+ years."
Ahhh you sound like SG Collins commenting on Apollo and how the technologies to fake such an event were not available in 1969..... and he could have known as the expert he presented himself on youtube.
It turned out he was an insignificant ‘light guy’ in the film industry who knew as much or as little about the technologies available to NASA in 1969 as average Joe.
But all the mainstream news sites were publishing mister ‘Apollo expert’s ‘ view ;D ;D ;D
I think it was the artistic hat that SG Collins put on that did the trick......

Many video’s out there show that in the ISS most ‘tricks’ are indeed fakery based on film layers and augmented reality.
These have been presented many times, so do your own research.

Likewise with a top illusionist, his tricks seem like magic or demon possessed because people have no clue what just happened right in front of their noses.

Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: BlueMarble on August 14, 2018, 11:40:04 AM
Now, back to reality:

3) CGI. Not currently advanced enough to be as convincing as many of the videos from the ISS. And if you know anything about CGI, due to render times, we currently don’t have the technology to simulate weightlessness live for such extended durations shown in ISS footage. So no, it’s not CGI.

Here’s where someone would say, “Well maybe NASA has some secret CGI technology.” I would say, “Maybe NASA has not so secret technology that can put humans in space and have been doing so for 50+ years."
Ahhh you sound like SG Collins commenting on Apollo and how the technologies to fake such an event were not available in 1969..... and he could have known as the expert he presented himself on youtube.
It turned out he was an insignificant ‘light guy’ in the film industry who knew as much or as little about the technologies available to NASA in 1969 as average Joe.
But all the mainstream news sites were publishing mister ‘Apollo expert’s ‘ view ;D ;D ;D
I think it was the artistic hat that SG Collins put on that did the trick......

Many video’s out there show that in the ISS most ‘tricks’ are indeed fakery based on film layers and augmented reality.
These have been presented many times, so do your own research.

Likewise with a top illusionist, his tricks seem like magic or demon possessed because people have no clue what just happened right in front of their noses.

Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?

"Round earth can't be true because: Magic" -dutchy
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 14, 2018, 12:44:04 PM
Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?

Sure they could. But not all and certainly not on the scale of the 100’s of hours of ISS footage.

Take for example the movie “The Martian”. The FX post production schedule was 24 weeks and that was tight. Half a dozen graphics houses involved. For example, simply removing a space suit helmet visor and digitally replacing it so the reflections wouldn’t show the green screens and other earthly artifacts for a 10 second shot would have to render overnight.

If you applied a modicum of logic to this and spent a little less time gazing at conspiracy nonsense on YouTube, you would realize the technology just isn’t there to fake the countless hours of ISS footage, let alone anything live.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 14, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Many video’s out there show that in the ISS most ‘tricks’ are indeed fakery based on film layers and augmented reality.
No. Many denier's claims have got manipulated footage which they manipulate themselves, with this mysteriously absent in the originals.

Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?
The insane part is claiming that they have this massively advanced technology which lets them fake these things perfectly, yet don't have the much simpler technology to go to space.
It is claiming NASA is super advanced, but horribly primitive at the same time.
It makes no sense.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: markjo on August 14, 2018, 03:17:49 PM
But in the ISS the ‘Bob the builder’ scenes guaranty some good tv, more so because the general people know that they can die while tightening ‘stuff’ with their spaycy screwdrivers.
You're right! It does make for good tv. It's amazing to be able to watch humans suspended in space 400 km above the globe tightening stuff. It's incredible!
This is spoken like a truly brainwashed shill, pitiful.
Agreed.  I find watching space walks to be long and tedious.  They move so slowly that it seems to take forever to get anything done.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 14, 2018, 03:33:35 PM
Many video’s out there show that in the ISS most ‘tricks’ are indeed fakery based on film layers and augmented reality.
No. Many denier's claims have got manipulated footage which they manipulate themselves, with this mysteriously absent in the originals.

Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?
The insane part is claiming that they have this massively advanced technology which lets them fake these things perfectly, yet don't have the much simpler technology to go to space.
It is claiming NASA is super advanced, but horribly primitive at the same time.
It makes no sense.
Firstly, if you claim they never wear a harnass to do their backflips you're beyond denial and i see no reason to discuss this specific element any further with you.....
Secondly....
The 'much simpler technology to go to space' ?

Why are there still no civilians in space ?
You know civilians loaded with money and willing to pay since 1990 when the first promisses were made !!!
The money is there, the willingness, but appearently the technology to go to space is exclusively used to bring certain freemasons aka astronauts into space....
Even my fellow countryman and former astronaut André Kuipers is acquainted with freemasonry..... all of them are.

Yeah it is fairly easy to go to space  ;D ;D ;D
If you are dead and burried the world is still waiting for some real civilians to check out certain things in space......
Continue to follow the carrot.... which the donkey will never reach....
Deep down you know this to be true !
Space 1999, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, Blake's seven etc.....
Nothing happened and will happen...... we are rightfully stucked to earth by our creator for good reason !
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 14, 2018, 03:51:36 PM
Many video’s out there show that in the ISS most ‘tricks’ are indeed fakery based on film layers and augmented reality.
No. Many denier's claims have got manipulated footage which they manipulate themselves, with this mysteriously absent in the originals.

Do you really think the cannot fake some images from ‘weighless motion and tricks ‘ ?
The insane part is claiming that they have this massively advanced technology which lets them fake these things perfectly, yet don't have the much simpler technology to go to space.
It is claiming NASA is super advanced, but horribly primitive at the same time.
It makes no sense.
Firstly, if you claim they never wear a harnass to do their backflips you're beyond denial and i see no reason to discuss this specific element any further with you.....
Secondly....
The 'much simpler technology to go to space' ?

Why are there still no civilians in space ?
You know civilians loaded with money and willing to pay since 1990 when the first promisses were made !!!
The money is there, the willingness, but appearently the technology to go to space is exclusively used to bring certain freemasons aka astronauts into space....
Even my fellow countryman and former astronaut André Kuipers is acquainted with freemasonry..... all of them are.

Yeah it is fairly easy to go to space  ;D ;D ;D
If you are dead and burried the world is still waiting for some real civilians to check out certain things in space......
Continue to follow the carrot.... which the donkey will never reach....
Deep down you know this to be true !
Space 1999, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, Blake's seven etc.....
Nothing happened and will happen...... we are rightfully stucked to earth by our creator for good reason !

Thanks for this thrilling, exhaustive, and deft exposition. Chock full of evidence, data, all of which, irrefutable.

Btw, your creator was a Freemason.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 14, 2018, 04:01:00 PM
Now, back to reality:

3) CGI. Not currently advanced enough to be as convincing as many of the videos from the ISS. And if you know anything about CGI, due to render times, we currently don’t have the technology to simulate weightlessness live for such extended durations shown in ISS footage. So no, it’s not CGI.

Here’s where someone would say, “Well maybe NASA has some secret CGI technology.” I would say, “Maybe NASA has not so secret technology that can put humans in space and have been doing so for 50+ years."
Ahhh you sound like SG Collins commenting on Apollo and how the technologies to fake such an event were not available in 1969..... and he could have known as the expert he presented himself on youtube.
It turned out he was an insignificant ‘light guy’ in the film industry who knew as much or as little about the technologies available to NASA in 1969 as average Joe.
No, you claimed that "It turned out he was an insignificant ‘light guy’ in the film industry who knew as much or as little about the technologies available to NASA in 1969 as average Joe." That is a totally different matter.
Do you really know any more "about the technologies available to NASA in 1969 as average Joe"? You were not around in the 1960s so all you do is guess.

Here's some copy-n-paste that you love (but it's sure better than a pretender like you):
Quote from: Inanimate Carbon Rod
Uh oh! Jarrah's mad at SG Collins! « on: March 28, 2013, 03:03:57 PM » (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=407.msg13993#msg13993)
Remember SG Collins, the guy who did the YouTube video claiming it was impossible to fake the moon landings with 1960's technology? Well he has an interesting and thoughtful reply to Jarrah, who attacked him in a recent video, and discusses, amongst other things, the hammer drop, thoughts on slow motion playback and the general lunar hoax movement.

(At 9:50 he references "Live TV from the Moon")
And just because it's great, here's SG Collins original:
Thanks for bringing that up, much appreciated.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 14, 2018, 09:55:52 PM
Firstly, if you claim they never wear a harnass to do their backflips you're beyond denial and i see no reason to discuss this specific element any further with you.....
So I either blindly accept your claims, or you just dismiss me?
How about you provide evidence?


The 'much simpler technology to go to space' ?
Yes.
A rocket, with various life support equipment.

Why are there still no civilians in space ?
Define civilian?
From what I have seen people affiliated with space in any way are deemed to be "in on the conspiracy" and thus dismissed as not a civilian.

the technology to go to space is exclusively used to bring certain freemasons aka astronauts into space....
Anyone who goes to space is an astronaut, with the exceptions of the Russians that want to call themselves cosmonauts.
So if you require it to not be an astronaut, then you have set it up to be impossible.
If you don't require that, then what about Toyohiro Akiyama?

Deep down you know this to be true !
Deep down I know you to be spouting pure garbage, just trolling.
You have no justification for any of your claims.

we are rightfully stucked to earth by our creator for good reason !
Because this creator is an evil prick that doesn't want people going to space?
There is no reason to think there is any magic creator.
How about you try rational thought rather than religious nonsense?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 15, 2018, 05:47:09 AM
So I either blindly accept your claims, or you just dismiss me?
How about you provide evidence?
Hahaha and listen to your explanations about compression anomalies that occur and other moronic excuses ?
It tried to convince some members why an inter active performance between the ISS guitar hero Chris Hadfield, band earth + choir was a pre recorded event instead of a live event as the tv host and members over here initially claimed.....
It's part of the job i do, so mostly hear immidiatly what live music is and pre recorded stuff and the behaviour of sound in general.
I gave up eventually because one cannot fight such forms of ignorance..... sadly.
If you believe all is real in the numerous ISS footage,... that they never fool the general public with blue and green screen technology, cgi, augmented reality, harnasses and more it's your choice but the floodgates of proof to the contrary are wide open.....
But a re-run of the same old arguments ? No thanks.......
Quote
Define civilian?
One without any form of lasting pre indoctrination from space agencies.
All Apollo rhetoric, emblems, numerology, dates and events show the connection with the occult and freemasonry.
Only fools think freemasons are enthousiastic men who like to read books and discuss philosophical matters behind closed doors.
The list of freemasons among Apollo astronauts or their direct relatives is bloody obvious.
Quote
Deep down I know you to be spouting pure garbage, just trolling.
You have no justification for any of your claims.
It's the total opposite,..... two totalitarian regimes known for crimes against humanity on a huge scale started a 'space race' claiming all sorts of outlandish claims as they took it to another level of deception.
It was supposedly all true and by the end of the century 'we' would could go to the moon on vacation ourselves.....
Despite ongoing private rocket company's claims nothing happened and you and i can never really varify any claim they made or make about outerspace.
So who is claiming the absurd ?
It's not my fault you fell in love with their placebo reality dressed up with fancy jargon !
Quote
Because this creator is an evil prick that doesn't want people going to space?
There is no reason to think there is any magic creator.
How about you try rational thought rather than religious nonsense?
This creator wants us to clean up our extremely dirty room first before we want to play outside......
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Crutchwater on August 15, 2018, 07:03:28 AM
Explain how this could be faked...

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 15, 2018, 07:28:03 AM
I tried to convince some members why an inter active performance between the ISS guitar hero Chris Hadfield, band earth + choir was a pre recorded event instead of a live event as the tv host and members over here initially claimed.....
It's part of the job i do, so mostly hear immidiatly what live music is and pre recorded stuff and the behaviour of sound in general.
I gave up eventually because one cannot fight such forms of ignorance..... sadly.


What was wrong to your ears? 

As I understand it, he played, the signal was sent to a studio and everyone else just followed him.

I don’t see a problem with that myself.

I dabble, but I’m not even sure what I should be listening for to determine if it was faked or not?

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 15, 2018, 09:25:56 AM
Explain how this could be faked...



Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Crutchwater on August 15, 2018, 10:29:12 AM
If you think that looks real, Bullwinkle, you've been jerking the squirrel way too much!

You didn't watch any of it, did you??
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 15, 2018, 10:50:20 PM
Hahaha and listen to your explanations about compression anomalies that occur and other moronic excuses ?
You mean refute your claims which you clearly know are pure bullshit?

It tried to convince some members why an inter active performance between the ISS guitar hero Chris Hadfield, band earth + choir was a pre recorded event instead of a live event
Which you were unable to show was meant to be live, and people explained how it could be done assuming the parties had competent timing.

It's part of the job i do
So you are paid to shill for FE and other delusional nonsense?

but the floodgates of proof to the contrary are wide open
Yet you seem to be unable to present any. So it sure seems like there are no floodwaters behind these floodgates.

One without any form of lasting pre indoctrination from space agencies.
i.e. no one who has been to space or claims it is possible to do so?
i.e. it would be impossible for a "civilian" to go to space in your mind as if they said they did you wouldn't count them as a "civilian".
That makes your claim nothing more than this impossible to exist class doesn't exist. Well who gives a shit as they couldn't exist regardless of anything else.

numerology
So more delusional BS?

It was supposedly all true and by the end of the century 'we' would could go to the moon on vacation ourselves
And that is the part where people (not just government) get completely wrong. The massively oversell, putting completely unrealistic timetables on things and promissing based upon hope of what might happen.

you and i can never really varify any claim they made or make about outerspace.
Except by using GPS, or any other satellite based navigation system, which relies upon satellites to function, or using a sat-phone or getting satellite TV or internet, or just collecting the raw telemetry from the satellites.
All of which you can do in multiple location with highly directional receivers to determine the location of the satellites.
You can likewise use telescopes to view the ISS, and at night can frequently see the path of satellites as they flash across the sky.

So I would say there is plenty we can do to verify it. You just choose not to or dismiss it all as fake.

Just what evidence would you accept to verify it?
You have already shown your idea of a civilian going to space to be pure nonsense as you would simply claim they were indoctrinated.

Claiming it is all fake in light of the massive amounts of evidence indicating it is real is absurd.
So you are the one claiming the absurd.

This creator wants us to clean up our extremely dirty room first before we want to play outside......
Then maybe they should stop being such an imaginary prick and stop trashing it.
How many earthquakes or tsunamis or cyclones, or volcanos or floods have occured on the ISS?
It seems more like it is trying to get us to clean up its mess. Of course it would need to exist to do that.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 15, 2018, 11:17:47 PM
This creator wants us to clean up our extremely dirty room first before we want to play outside......

Oh yeah, I totally remember that from Sunday school, it’s from "Baggins 3:18":

Ye who hath dwelt within the mire of which you hath wrought
shall never vertically depart your filthy environ until it is of cleanliness and virtue
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 15, 2018, 11:46:43 PM
This creator wants us to clean up our extremely dirty room first before we want to play outside......

Oh yeah, I totally remember that from Sunday school, it’s from "Baggins 3:18":

Ye who hath dwelt within the mire of which you hath wrought
shall never vertically depart your filthy environ until it is of cleanliness and virtue
Sonday school is part of a religious indoctrination program of the past just like ‘pseudo science’ is in modern times.
Those who want to enslave little children in order to have lasting rulership over future adults
Cherry pick an indoctrination system that fits the narritave of the specific timeframe.
Like those astronauts daring to read the bible while lying about going around the moon. In those days many indoctrinated Americans went to church so a reference by some scumbag astronauts was a plus and enhanced the indoctrination.
‘Hear hear, they’re reading the holy bible in space.... God bless ‘m and America’

I understand your frustration with sunday school and your funny ‘Lord of the Rings’ comments.....
But you see i am a step ahead,..... i let go the sunday school indoctrination and the pseudo science/globe/evolution/cosmic indoctrination.......and started all over again.
And yes i found God in the process !
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 16, 2018, 12:02:54 AM
It tried to convince some members why an inter active performance between the ISS guitar hero Chris Hadfield, band earth + choir was a pre recorded event instead of a live event as the tv host and members over here initially claimed.....
It's part of the job i do, so mostly hear immidiatly what live music is and pre recorded stuff and the behaviour of sound in general.
I gave up eventually because one cannot fight such forms of ignorance..... sadly.
Please show any evidence that NASA claimed anything about "official" that performance.
Even if you did prove it a fake, you've proven nothing against your nemesis NASA!

But there never was a need for it to be pre-recorded.
It could (and probably was) transmitted from the ISS with an adjustable delay to maintain continuity from Chris Hadfield's end. Then the rest accompanied that on the ground.

But, Mr Know-it-all-dutchy, can't admit such a possibility as it would destroy his fantasy flat world with no "outer-space".
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 12:20:04 AM
It tried to convince some members why an inter active performance between the ISS guitar hero Chris Hadfield, band earth + choir was a pre recorded event instead of a live event as the tv host and members over here initially claimed.....
It's part of the job i do, so mostly hear immidiatly what live music is and pre recorded stuff and the behaviour of sound in general.
I gave up eventually because one cannot fight such forms of ignorance..... sadly.
Please show any evidence that NASA claimed anything about "official" that performance.
Even if you did prove it a fake, you've proven nothing against your nemesis NASA!

But there never was a need for it to be pre-recorded.
It could (and probably was) transmitted from the ISS with an adjustable delay to maintain continuity from Chris Hadfield's end. Then the rest accompanied that on the ground.

But, Mr Know-it-all-dutchy, can't admit such a possibility as it would destroy his fantasy flat world with no "outer-space".
You can always know ‘what time it is’ when Rabinoz inserts ‘Mr Know it all dutchy’....
I must have made quite an impression on you........ but that is not needed we can simply discuss things among equals.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 16, 2018, 12:41:05 AM
Like those astronauts daring to read the bible while lying about going around the moon.

Actually it's a fair bit more daring to be an astronaut than to read a book.

And yes i found God in the process !

Well done, I wasn't aware he was among the missing.

Now, back to business. We've given you data, media, explanations, whathaveyou. And in return we've gotten bits and pieces of misspelled ramblings about enslaved little children indoctrinated into time bound narratives in order to be ruled over by their future selves or whatever you just wrote about.

How about responding to some of the actual points we wasted our time on producing?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 01:20:06 AM
Well done, I wasn't aware he was among the missing.
More problematic is when something is missing you look in the wrong direction for answers.
Quote
Now, back to business. We've given you data, media, explanations, whathaveyou. And in return we've gotten bits and pieces of misspelled ramblings about enslaved little children indoctrinated into time bound narratives in order to be ruled over by their future selves or whatever you just wrote about.

How about responding to some of the actual points we wasted our time on producing?
You have given me nothing at all just some indoctrinated info that i can look up within 15 minutes myself when using something called 'Google'.
That is the problem with your kind...... the only thing you really gave some thought is.......ermmm uhhhh how to copy paste the ideas of others.

I do not ask for you to engage with me, but if you do..... i do things my way and that includes ramblings against those who own your reality on many levels.

I have presented many proof against the moonlandings for instance, but as you may guess it never satisfies those attached to nostalgia of the past.
I did however got something out of it, that if humans not successfully went back before 2069  the initial claims could indeed be sort of false.

It's almost 50 years for crying out loud...... what proof do you need when comparing all the broken promisses about future moon basis and space explorations in the seventies to the endavours we still face today ?
Clear proof that they were talking out of their ass back then, not knowing all the hazards that are truly out there....... as they slowly but steadily seem to realise....
'But uhhhh they have destroyed all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there...and it's painfull to built it back and reload how things worked in 1969'
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 16, 2018, 01:51:52 AM
More problematic is when something is missing you look in the wrong direction for answers.

Or not. Maybe just be better about keeping track of your stuff in the first place.

You have given me nothing at all just some indoctrinated info that i can look up within 15 minutes myself when using something called 'Google'.

Ok, I'll try harder to dig up some non-indoctrinated stuff for you using the google.

I do not ask for you to engage with me, but if you do..... i do things my way and that includes ramblings against those who own your reality on many levels.

You've made that painfully clear, specially the ramblings part.

I have presented many proof against the moonlandings for instance, but as you may guess it never satisfies those attached to nostalgia of the past.
I did however got something out of it, that if humans not successfully went back before 2069  the initial claims could indeed be sort of false.

Solid premise. Please, go on.

It's almost 50 years for crying out loud...... what proof do you need when comparing all the broken promisses about future moon basis and space explorations in the seventies to the endavours we still face today ?
Clear proof that they were talking out of their ass back then, not knowing all the hazards that are truly out there....... as they slowly but steadily seem to realise....
'But uhhhh they have destroyed all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there...and it's painfull to built it back and reload how things worked in 1969'
 ;D ;D ;D

On behalf of NASA, sorry they let you down by not fitting into your timetable.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 16, 2018, 01:57:19 AM
You can always know ‘what time it is’ when Rabinoz inserts ‘Mr Know it all dutchy’....
I must have made quite an impression on you........ but that is not needed we can simply discuss things among equals.
That is impossible. No matter how well anybody explains anything to you, you always know better and never take any notice.
When I take the time to examine your claims carefully you just ignore what I post.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 16, 2018, 03:12:54 AM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
You have given me nothing at all just some indoctrinated info that i can look up within 15 minutes myself when using something called 'Google'.
That is the problem with your kind...... the only thing you really gave some thought is.......ermmm uhhhh how to copy paste the ideas of others.
And that is the problem with your kind. All you do is post stuff from your own imagination with no factual support.

Quote from: dutchy
I do not ask for you to engage with me, but if you do..... i do things my way and that includes ramblings against those who own your reality on many levels.

I have presented many proof against the moonlandings for instance, but as you may guess it never satisfies those attached to nostalgia of the past.
No you have presented no proof against the moonlandings. All you ever post is guesswork based on hearsay and imagined defects, plus a good deal of ridicule.

Quote from: dutchy
I did however got something out of it, that if humans not successfully went back before 2069 the initial claims could indeed be sort of false.
You go on and on about "going back" and NASA would love to have gone back but the enormous cost the first missions were justified as part of the "Cold War" - after Russia had beaten the US at almost "mile-stones" up to that point.
After that, it was a bit like, "We've proved we can do that, why bother going back" and so the money dried up.

Quote from: dutchy
It's almost 50 years for crying out loud...... what proof do you need when comparing all the broken promisses about future moon basis and space explorations in the seventies to the endavours we still face today ?
What "broken promises about future moon bases and space explorations in the seventies"?
NASA didn't promise anything and can't do anything with US Government finance.
They would indeed have gone to the moon a couple more times and started to develop interplanetary mission if they had the resources.
But NASA is limited by by its finances and after the first lunar mission finances dried up.

Quote from: dutchy
Clear proof that they were talking out of their ass back then, not knowing all the hazards that are truly out there....... as they slowly but steadily seem to realise....
No, dutchy, that's you talking . . .  . In the sixties NASA may not have as much as now, but they knew of of solar flares and of the the Van Allen belts from James Van Allen himself!

Quote from: dutchy
'But uhhhh they have destroyed all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there...and it's painfull to built it back and reload how things worked in 1969'
No, they did not "destroy all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there".
The records are there, but there was no possibly way to retain the production lines in "moth-balled" state.
Those production lines we not NASA's but belonged to Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Grumman etc and we're needed for the manufacturing aircraft etc.

But, no-one would no use the same technologies as in the 1960s, that is a ridiculous claim.
Probably rockets engines have changed far less than other components but even there modern engines are far lighter and more efficient.
But other components are far different with modern computers and materials being in many cases far superior but different.

I do realise that to you all I say falls on deaf ears - you assume that you know better, but we try.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 16, 2018, 09:34:06 AM

You have given me nothing at all just some indoctrinated info that i can look up within 15 minutes myself when using something called 'Google'.
That is the problem with your kind...... the only thing you really gave some thought is.......ermmm uhhhh how to copy paste the ideas of others.

I do not ask for you to engage with me, but if you do..... i do things my way and that includes ramblings against those who own your reality on many levels.

I have presented many proof against the moonlandings for instance, but as you may guess it never satisfies those attached to nostalgia of the past.
I did however got something out of it, that if humans not successfully went back before 2069  the initial claims could indeed be sort of false.

It's almost 50 years for crying out loud...... what proof do you need when comparing all the broken promisses about future moon basis and space explorations in the seventies to the endavours we still face today ?
Clear proof that they were talking out of their ass back then, not knowing all the hazards that are truly out there....... as they slowly but steadily seem to realise....
'But uhhhh they have destroyed all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there...and it's painfull to built it back and reload how things worked in 1969'
 ;D ;D ;D

That’s the weirdest argument ever.

Somehow you think an argument presented with no sources trumps an argument with sources?

Just because someone links to an article or other source doesn’t mean they haven’t thought about it or don’t understand it

Yes, you can use google to find answers to many of the problems you have with established science.  Maybe you should try it?

I know you’re not above finding stuff on the internet that you think it supports your argument.  The only real difference is what sources you choose to believe.

As for why we’ve not been back to the moon, the main reason is it was incredibly expensive.  It was done mainly to show American dominance in the space race.

What would be the point in repeating it now?  To collect some more rocks and knock a few golf balls around?

No, if we go back, it would have to be to take the next step.  That would probably be to build a permanent base, which is possibly orders of magnitude more expensive again.  Which raises the obvious question- what would the base be for?

Sure, we might do that in the foreseeable future.  I know there are people advocating it, but governments still have to sign off on the ridiculous costs.

Personally, I don’t think we should until we’ve made substantial progress on a whole load of major issues on Earth.  I’m quite a fan of space exploration, but I don’t think we’re really in a good position to devote major resources to manned colonies anywhere at the moment.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
You can always know ‘what time it is’ when Rabinoz inserts ‘Mr Know it all dutchy’....
I must have made quite an impression on you........ but that is not needed we can simply discuss things among equals.
That is impossible. No matter how well anybody explains anything to you, you always know better and never take any notice.
When I take the time to examine your claims carefully you just ignore what I post.
No matter how well Rabinoz & co copy paste from the www does NOT equall 'no matter how well anybody explains anything to you '.

But you know that of course don't you ?
You believe literaly everything current science tells you based on things i will explain later...
So anyone who disagrees with the 'scientific truth of our era' never has any ground to claim anything against your kind.

I'll explain some more...
When a car can drive it is proof of the underlying science.....and this simple rule of thumb is what i will hardly ever argue.....
Only when certain claims are not varifiable now or in the future some claims need a closer look.
Earth's spin, the moonlandings, the big bang , macro evolution etc. have so much philosophical elements instead of real evidence that we must clearly distinct between the two.

If you claim the coriolis effect is real science , my reply was/is that there are lots of extreem large indoors facilities that can check if it is the truth or an oldwives tale that a long distance shooter must take the coriolis effect into account.
Because this should be the scientific method  !
Indoors we can precisely measure the effect on bullits because most of the weather is bypassed.

But as always with the pseudo science you love so much, a better and accurate data mapping of the effect is not needed,..... unless one wants to proof Einstein's cosmic ripple's..... then we can measure the size of 1000the of a proton's diameter.
Why ? Because one way or the other this absurd idea about the hypothetical universe needs 'scientific' proof to keep running.

I have presented so much what could and should have been tested if the scientific method was indeed the underlying thought of the members of the church of scientism.....

No one could test any Apollo artifacts,..... no landers, vacuum chambers, gold foil ::), bathing uhhhh moonsuits of 1969,.....
Because within a year a team of real scientists with modern computer modelling could precisely tell you if the Apollo equipment meets the initial NASA claims.
But one can hardly point towards the Lunar Module in a musea, but NASA themselves can destroy, lose or errase their most precious legacy.

Since no one wants to go to an uninterresting rock anymore, congress does not want to finance such events and the overall 'been there done that' attitude, i see no reason to give all blueprints and data free for everyone to research.

But NASA is working around the clock with the shredder to make sure we are only left with their logbooks and explanations about how their stuff worked ...
You know the 'copy paste trash' you so eagerly present.......

Every constructor or company which did something remarkable in the whole Apollo project must have put their own peronal legacy in a vault.
Therefor since no one wants to go back to the moon (except Don Pettit) it is time to 'open source all available data and equipment used during Apollo'.
And that mister excludes some online babblings from NASA you're ready to copy paste at will.
That is the 'scientific method',... not your quasi scientific nonsense derived from some  online source that has some NASA logo on it .

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Crutchwater on August 16, 2018, 10:10:43 AM
Can someone provide evidence that "NASA is working around the clock with the shredder..."

Or is this another baseless dutchwadism?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 16, 2018, 10:13:39 AM

I'll explain some more...
When a car can drive it is proof of the underlying science.....and this simple rule of thumb is what i will hardly ever argue.....
Only when certain claims are not varifiable now or in the future some claims need a closer look.
Earth's spin, the moonlandings, the big bang , macro evolution etc. have so much philosophical elements instead of real evidence that we must clearly distinct between the two.

Brilliant.  An argument I see all the time from climate change deniers.  Science is only real when it gives you stuff you can use.

Of course you are ignoring things like satellite TV which only works when you point a dish at the specific spot where the satellite is sitting in geostationary orbit.

Proof that space stuff is real.

As for the rotation of the earth (the only real relevant example), there’s tonnes of proof by a whole host of methods.

For instance the difference in time between a solar day and a sidereal day corresponds exactly to the time it takes to orbit the sun.  On the flat earth “model” (such as it is), the stars would be spinning at this exact different rate to the sun because?

Amazing coincidence? Because God wants us all to believe in heliocentrism?  Any other ideas?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 10:52:48 AM

I'll explain some more...
When a car can drive it is proof of the underlying science.....and this simple rule of thumb is what i will hardly ever argue.....
Only when certain claims are not varifiable now or in the future some claims need a closer look.
Earth's spin, the moonlandings, the big bang , macro evolution etc. have so much philosophical elements instead of real evidence that we must clearly distinct between the two.

Brilliant.  An argument I see all the time from climate change deniers.  Science is only real when it gives you stuff you can use.
Your conversational abilities are not so brilliant though....., doesn't make you bad or something.. ::)
Humanity is polluting / destroying earth in record braking speed the last half a century...
Anyone who claims that somehow earth doesn't react because of our influence is defying all odds and reason.
But the things i mentioned are entirely different compared to climate change..
..
It seems you are only aware of one fictional conspiracy type  .... the flatearther who voted for Trump , because Obama the Islamic pawn totally let America down and those pesky climate and gun preachers only want to prevent you going on a trip with your oil consuming car and rifle outside to shoot some deer while enjoying the clearly flat scenery.
 ;D ;D ;D

Want to rephrase in order to have a conversation ?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 16, 2018, 11:02:42 AM

I'll explain some more...
When a car can drive it is proof of the underlying science.....and this simple rule of thumb is what i will hardly ever argue.....
Only when certain claims are not varifiable now or in the future some claims need a closer look.
Earth's spin, the moonlandings, the big bang , macro evolution etc. have so much philosophical elements instead of real evidence that we must clearly distinct between the two.

Brilliant.  An argument I see all the time from climate change deniers.  Science is only real when it gives you stuff you can use.
Your conversational abilities are not so brilliant though....., doesn't make you bad or something.. ::)
Humanity is polluting / destroying earth in record braking speed the last half a century...
Anyone who claims that somehow earth doesn't react because of our influence is defying all odds and reason.
But the things i mentioned are entirely different compared to climate change..
..
It seems you are only aware of one fictional conspiracy type  .... the flatearther who voted for Trump , because Obama the Islamic pawn totally let America down and those pesky climate and gun preachers only want to prevent you going on a trip with your oil consuming car and rifle outside to shoot some deer while enjoying the clearly flat scenery.
 ;D ;D ;D

Want to rephrase in order to have a conversation ?

That was just an observation I found interesting.  No more relevant than your guff about how we is all indoctrinated.

I see you ignored the substantial points I raised.

Rephrasing:

How do you explain satellite TV?
How do you explain the difference between a solar day and a sidereal day?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 11:06:35 AM
Can someone provide evidence that "NASA is working around the clock with the shredder..."

Or is this another baseless dutchwadism?
Don Pettit said it..... he said 'but we destroyed that technology (to go to the moon) and it's a painfull process to built it back
It was Don's explanation why we couldn't go back to the moon in modern times.
The NASA  'shredder'  destroys blueprints, data that enables you to built something back without a painfull process !!

But all of a sudden the word ''we' out of the mouth of a NASA astronaut, spokesman and celebrity doesn't refer to NASA.....
And 'destroyed'  means a disfunctional assembly line .....
And 'painfull process' means 'takes some time'

And more excuses from NASA enthousiasts.

Fuck me.....  native English speakers are really something when it comes to their mother tongue....
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 16, 2018, 11:25:23 AM

Don Pettit said it..... he said 'but we destroyed that technology (to go to the moon) and it's a painfull process to built it back
It was Don's explanation why we couldn't go back to the moon in modern times.

Did he say this to you personally?

Or are you relying on Google?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 11:37:35 AM

Don Pettit said it..... he said 'but we destroyed that technology (to go to the moon) and it's a painfull process to built it back
It was Don's explanation why we couldn't go back to the moon in modern times.

Did he say this to you personally?

Or are you relying on Google?
It was on camera and Don Pettit, nor any of his relatives claimed something was cgi or fake.

But i agree, with the latest virtual modelling techniques, augmented reality and advance voice formant shaping technigues .... they can manipulate any footage to say whatever they want.
It is possible to let Trump praise CNN and asks the American people to solely watch CNN for trustworthy news items...... without anyone noticing the manipulation.

Call my attempts a sort of wake-up call, because you and i are totally uncabable to discern reality from fiction in any possible way in the near future !
But yeah.......fakery is upon us, fakery 2.0 which makes the Apollo and 9/11 dual realities (real elements in the mix to mask the deceit underneath) look like child’s play by comparison.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 16, 2018, 12:26:24 PM

Don Pettit said it..... he said 'but we destroyed that technology (to go to the moon) and it's a painfull process to built it back
It was Don's explanation why we couldn't go back to the moon in modern times.

Did he say this to you personally?

Or are you relying on Google?
It was on camera and Don Pettit, nor any of his relatives claimed something was cgi or fake.

But i agree, with the latest virtual modelling techniques, augmented reality and advance voice formant shaping technigues .... they can manipulate any footage to say whatever they want.
It is possible to let Trump praise CNN and asks the American people to solely watch CNN for trustworthy news items...... without anyone noticing the manipulation.

Call my attempts a sort of wake-up call, because you and i are totally uncabable to discern reality from fiction in any possible way in the near future !
But yeah.......fakery is upon us, fakery 2.0 which makes the Apollo and 9/11 dual realities (real elements in the mix to mask the deceit underneath) look like child’s play by comparison.

Haha.  You know what I mean.

This would be an utterly obscure statement if flat earthers and moon landing conspiracy theorists on the internet hadn’t jumped on it.

It’s highly unlikely you would have stumbled on it if you weren’t following the things that support your world view.

You try to belittle people for posting stuff that can be found on the internet, but you do the same.  Only from more rubbish sources, which you don’t cite.  It’s just a way of dismissing arguments.

It’s s daft position to take anyway.

This guy claims to be a NASA astronaut. Apparently you don’t believe NASA astronauts even exist.  So nothing he says should be worth anything at all.

How is this evidence for your case?

For the rest of us, it’s quite simple.  He is an astronaut, he did go to space, but just didn’t choose his words very well.  The technology wasn’t “destroyed”, it’s just not usable anymore, because what’s left is half a century old and in museums.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 01:28:16 PM
Haha.  You know what I mean.
How could i miss it..... ::)
But you obviously don’t know what i mean.....but i hope to explain a thing or two....
Quote
This would be an utterly obscure statement if flat earthers and moon landing conspiracy theorists on the internet hadn’t jumped on it.
A clickbait attempt ?  ;D
Quote
It’s highly unlikely you would have stumbled on it if you weren’t following the things that support your world view.
Darn,...... now you know my little secret about the YouTube highpriests who’s knowledge is beyond this realm..... they are different and not infected by science, proof, reason and numbers ..... i am their humble mouthpiece  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote
You try to belittle people for posting stuff that can be found on the internet, but you do the same.  Only from more rubbish sources, which you don’t cite.  It’s just a way of dismissing arguments.
Examples ?
Because you really have to be more specific.....otherwise it doesn’t reflect well on your overall interactive skills.
I have nothing against the internet or info that can be found.
I have something against copy pasting info without any form of critical thinking.
But let me give you a very simple example.....
If a Russian athlete runs the 100m sprint in an absurd 9.12 second world record and the Russians provided all the data that proofs this athlete is clean and at least 1000 Russians can confirm who were part of an advanced secret hightech athletics program....do  you believe it was clean because you saw it on tv,  it did happen and official Russian data that gives some superficial insight about their advanced program  ?

I wouldn’t..... simply because of a track record of Russian state sponsored lies and deceit in the field of sports and ongoing denial when caught red handed.

Believing the moonlanding is basically the same....
A wicked regime who gave Nazi’s a new identity and lied about the total amount of war criminals who were let of the hook....
Started the most childish and damaging pissing contest with Russia ever seen in the history of mankind.
Partly based on SF nonsence from the pedophile Arthur C. Clarke and the connection with Disney.
Werner von Braun who willingly worked for Hitler, killing the laziest factory worker of the week during his management and bombed the hell out of London town for no reason at all......he was the mastermind behind the rocket technology.....
If someone ever was open to blackmail Werner was.......

Then we have a president who promissed to go to the moon before the decade was over.....
He was killed and all of his words reached epic and prophetic heights.
As if he was ‘mother Teresa’ and the epitome of a visionair.

In the mean time there were riots on American soil and racial disturbances,...
Wicked politicians after wicked politicians made Vietnam hell on earth and the president who took it to ‘1984’ levels of state control and deceit was the one claiming the final succes during a phonecall to the moon.
Something that was really helpfull as the ultimate distraction in the middle of the political mess America was in.

The odds that any outlandish space claim they made was genuine is almost zero considering all of the above.
Granted there is a slim possibility that they indeed did succeed despite a sea of lies, destruction, propaganda and more.

But there is no vehicle, suit, battery, test facility, original tapes left that universities can examine and test.
Put a person in a 1969 moonsuit in a near vacuum chamber and see what happens after 2 hours..... the least attractive test, but everyone knows from their ‘gut feeling’ ( hated over here) that this will be deadly for the volunteer.

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 16, 2018, 01:49:38 PM
But there is no vehicle, suit, battery, test facility, original tapes left that universities can examine and test.

Two words: moon rocks

Now go use the google.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 16, 2018, 02:07:28 PM
But there is no vehicle, suit, battery, test facility, original tapes left that universities can examine and test.

Two words: moon rocks

Now go use the google.
I’m from the Netherlands and the best prime minister post WW2 called Willem Drees received petrified wood as a gift instead of moonrock.
It was given to him as a friend of America who received the Americans at his humble kitchen table to discuss the Marchall plan in his early career.
The Americans only were served with tea and a Maria cookie (poor men’s quality)
In Italy they were invited in the most fancy restaurants.....Wow .....so the story goes..... ‘ the Netherlands will spend our future money well indeed’.
Willem Drees was honest and humble and reached breakthrough levels with pensions and care.
The internet gives you a superficial coward pro NASA explanation as why this was the case and if this could happen.
A simple ‘NASA never distributed petrified wood’..... or ‘Drees was confused in the latter stages of his life’
Now you go and learn Dutch to understand that the story is 100% true.
Drees received petrified wood instead of moonrock.

And Werner von Braun went to the Southpole in the middle of Apollo.....
Antartica were one could easily find moonrock in abbundance....

Is this forum not a bit over your head ?

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Stash on August 16, 2018, 02:25:51 PM
Is this forum not a bit over your head ?

Yes, it would appear so. Your refutations of all things reality are something of a marvel.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 16, 2018, 02:54:05 PM
Haha.  You know what I mean.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
It’s highly unlikely you would have stumbled on it if you weren’t following the things that support your world view.
Darn,...... now you know my little secret about the YouTube highpriests who’s knowledge is beyond this realm..... they are different and not infected by science, proof, reason and numbers ..... i am their humble mouthpiece  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Believing the moonlanding is basically the same....
A wicked regime who gave Nazi’s a new identity and lied about the total amount of war criminals who were let of the hook....
Started the most childish and damaging pissing contest with Russia ever seen in the history of mankind.
Partly based on SF nonsence from the pedophile Arthur C. Clarke and the connection with Disney.
Werner von Braun who willingly worked for Hitler, killing the laziest factory worker of the week during his management and bombed the hell out of London town for no reason at all......he was the mastermind behind the rocket technology.....
If someone ever was open to blackmail Werner was.......
This is total outlandish garbage made up because anything else does not fit your "worldview".
Yet your "worldview" has no support in either observable evidence or history.

Quote from: dutchy
The odds that any outlandish space claim they made was genuine is almost zero considering all of the above.
Granted there is a slim possibility that they indeed did succeed despite a sea of lies, destruction, propaganda and more.
There is nothing outlandish about any space claim and it is only a few like you and other flat-earthers that deny all space missions.
Virtually all of "your YouTube highpriests" believe in space missions of some sort and most lunar mission hoaxers also believe the earth to be a Globe.
There are some, like Heiwa, Anders Björkman, (see I won Heiwa's €1,000,000 challenge (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0)), that believe only Low Earth Orbit unmanned mission (he has lots of shares in ArianeSpace).
And many quite accept LEO human missions and other unmanned missions.

But the few, like you, deny the possibility of any space travel simply it will not fit "your worldview" yet that is quite at odds with that of virtually everybody, including those of the early and current Church.

Quote from: dutchy
But there is no vehicle, suit, battery, test facility, original tapes left that universities can examine and test.
That is a totally untrue but obviously most things used on the moon were left there or in space.
Go and read: APOLLO SPACE SUIT, 1962–1974, Frederica, Delaware. (https://www.asme.org/wwwasmeorg/media/ResourceFiles/AboutASME/Who%20We%20Are/Engineering%20History/Landmarks/ApolloBR.pdf) but existing suits, now around 60 years old have deteriorated too much to test.
As for Lunar Modules (LMs) see what happened to all and where they now are: LOCATION OF APOLLO LUNAR MODULES. (https://airandspace.si.edu/explore-and-learn/topics/apollo/apollo-program/spacecraft/location/gemini.cfm)
Now excuse me if I copy-n-paste, but, unlike YOU, I do not drag this stuff from my fertile imagination!
Quote
Test-Driving the Lunar Rover
Before it went to the moon, this spacecraft on wheels had to be put through its paces on Earth.

(https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/8OZ9xnwD8HM1hocNh85B-UpRLBk=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/c3/98/c3982c3e-169f-4a72-822b-70f6371b281d/16e_jj2017_lrjbrb2f01006_mh_live-wr2.jpg)
Working on the Qualification Test Unit at Boeing, above. The large, footed, white tank is the thermal vacuum chamber.
(Courtesy of Pogue Special Collections and Archives Library, Murray State University Libraries, Murray, KY)
NASA finished shaking, freezing, frying, and dropping the test rover in 1972, and three years later transferred it to the National Air and Space Museum.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The rovers that revolutionized lunar exploration on the Apollo 15, 16, and 17 missions had to be left behind at the Hadley-Apennine, Descartes Highlands, and Taurus-Littrow landing sites, respectively.

It’s a much shorter and easier trip to see their identical understudy, the LRV Qualification Test Unit, in the Museum’s exhibit, “Apollo to the Moon.”

Read more at https://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-spacecraft-on-wheels-180963200/#cDb2QtBIXqZPo7VC.99

Read more at Test-Driving the Lunar Rover (https://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-spacecraft-on-wheels-180963200/#cDb2QtBIXqZPo7VC.99)
But, I doubt that the 60 year year old barrery would be much use.

You deny all this stuff because, like Heiwa, you do not know enough of the science to understand it and accepting totally disrupts you ideas on the world.

Quote from: dutchy
Put a person in a 1969 moonsuit in a near vacuum chamber and see what happens after 2 hours..... the least attractive test, but everyone knows from their ‘gut feeling’ ( hated over here) that this will be deadly for the volunteer.
What on earth do you mean? Current EVA suits are based on similar design and are tested in vacuum chambers and used in space!

Spacesuit training in a vacuum chamber at NASA Johnson
And this attracts idiotic comments like this from people that don't have the slightest idea what they are talking about:
Quote
OD
When we look at NASA's figures of pressure in outer space it is assumed that it is 100000000000000 times more of a vacuum (less pressure) than anything that has been created in any vacuum chamber on Earth. This means that the greatest vacuum created in a vacuum chamber is no where near that of what, supposedly, exists in outer space. If anything enters the vacuum of outer space it would disintegrate immediately into almost nothingness, molecular bonding forces would not be sufficient to maintain structure under such circumstance.
Can't people realise that "100000000000000 times more of a vacuum (less pressure) than anything that has been created in any vacuum chamber on Earth" is just closer to zero pressure?

Still, dutchy, we do sympathise. It your mind, if it doesn't fit your personal worldview it is completely impossible! A little more copy&paste:
Quote from: Shakespeare
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 16, 2018, 02:55:34 PM
I’m from the Netherlands and the best prime minister post WW2 called Willem Drees received petrified wood as a gift instead of moonrock.
No, he didn't!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 16, 2018, 03:31:18 PM
Sonday school is part of a religious indoctrination program of the past just like ‘pseudo science’ is in modern times.
Those who want to enslave little children in order to have lasting rulership over future adults
Yes, also known as religion.
But you seem fine with that with your preaching of a creator.

Like those astronauts daring to read the bible while lying about going around the moon.
And more baseless claims from you?
Where is your evidence that they are lying about going to the moon?
The best you have to question their credibility is them reading a book full of garbage.

i let go the sunday school indoctrination
Except you clearly haven't as you still foolishly believe in a creator.
Meanwhile I discarded it and accepted reality.

and the pseudo science/globe/evolution/cosmic indoctrination.......and started all over again.
And yes i found God in the process !
You mean and you rejected all scientific progress, going back before the dark age and starting with the same religious nonsense?

More problematic is when something is missing you look in the wrong direction for answers.
Yes, such as when looking to religious nonsense rather than science/reality. i.e. what you did.

You have given me nothing at all just some indoctrinated info that i can look up within 15 minutes
You mean reality, not indoctrinated info.
Reality isn't indoctrinated info.

I have presented many proof against the moonlandings for instance
I am yet to see you provide a single piece of evidence against them.
All you have are paranoid ramblings.

I did however got something out of it, that if humans not successfully went back before 2069  the initial claims could indeed be sort of false.
You are yet to provide any reason for why we should go back.
It is an extremely expensive process to send people to the moon.
There is no justification to go.
There isn't even the justification of making an achievement because it has already been done.

As such, your argument amounts to nothing.

what proof do you need when comparing all the broken promisses about future moon
How about actual evidence against them going, rather than simply over promising?

Clear proof that they were talking out of their ass back then
Only about the future, not what they were actually doing.
Their promises relied upon technological advancements which they were hoping for which would make it cheap to go to space, such as space elevators.
Instead of these cheap options, they still rely upon rocket fuel, which remains expensive.
They also became more conscious regarding the hazards.

Think of this:
People go to the moon with NASA.
They come back.
Then after some time they get cancer for whatever reason.
They then decide to sue NASA for "giving them cancer".

Taking people to the moon is a massive risk with today's society which just seems to want to sue people.

This applies to so many different areas.
In the past people claimed everyone would be driving cheap electric cars, with high speed trains travelling through vacuum tubes, and so on.
Yet these promises have failed to realise.
Does that mean there are no electric cars and no high speed trains? NO!
It just means they have overestimated what would happen.

'But uhhhh they have destroyed all technologies and have forgotten sone serious space related stuff needed to go out there
No. They have significantly advanced the technology with comes with other limitations.

Notice how this is just more moaning about now rather than having any actual evidence against them being able to do it?

When a car can drive it is proof of the underlying science
And notice, "A" car. Not when everyone can have a car.
Likewise, when a rocket can go to space, it is proof of the underlying science. When a person goes to the moon it is proof of the underlying science.
It doesn't require everyone to have a rocket or everyone to go to the moon.

Earth's spin, the moonlandings, the big bang , macro evolution etc. have so much philosophical elements instead of real evidence that we must clearly distinct between the two.
You mean they have plenty of real, solid evidence, such that no sane person would doubt them.

If you claim the coriolis effect is real science , my reply was/is that there are lots of extreem large indoors facilities that can check if it is the truth or an oldwives tale that a long distance shooter must take the coriolis effect into account.
Notice how you aren't actually providing evidence against it, nor are you countering any of the already existing evidence for it?
Instead you are just complaining that the evidence you want doesn't exist.
THAT IS NOT SCIENCE!
Science is not trying to test something in every possible conceivable way.
It is trying to test it in reasonable ways. That has been done.
Testing in more ways which would produce equivalent results isn't going to help.

a better and accurate data mapping of the effect is not needed,..... unless one wants to proof Einstein's cosmic ripple's..... then we can measure the size of 1000the of a proton's diameter.
Why?
Because it is something new.
If we already have proof beyond any reasonable doubt, and the more advanced measurements wouldn't do anything, using those more advanced measurements is nothing more than a complete waste of money.
If we don't already have that evidence, and these more advanced measurements can allow us to get it, then it arguably is not a waste or money.

I have presented so much what could and should have been tested
No you haven't.
You have presented a lot of what could have been tested. You are yet to justify why it should.
Until you provide that justification of why it should, you have less than no argument.
Even if you do provide a justification of why it should, you still have no argument as you have nothing to refute all the tests which have already been done.

i see no reason to give all blueprints and data free for everyone to research.
Then file a FOI request and see what you get, or see what information you can already find.
Also notice that just because no one wants to go to the moon doesn't mean the technology doesn't have other applications such as in the delivery of weapons.

That is the 'scientific method',... not your quasi scientific nonsense derived from some  online source that has some NASA logo on it .
No. Rejecting something because you don't have all the data you want or because people didn't perform tests you want is not the scientific method.

The NASA  'shredder'  destroys blueprints, data that enables you to built something back without a painfull process !!
Nope. Even with the blueprints it would still be a painful process to get it all back as it uses a bunch of technology which has been completely superseded.
So you either need to find the technology to manufacture it, or upgrade it.

And 'destroyed'  means a disfunctional assembly line .....
You mean an assembly which doesn't exist any more, using parts which don't exist anymore except as components in museums (or stuck on the moon), run by people who have likely retired.
I would say that is destroyed.
We no longer have the craft to go to the moon in a functional state to go to the moon, nor the processes to easily make a new one.

And 'painfull process' means 'takes some time'
No, take a considerable amount of time, effort and resources.
You know, what it typically means.
It doesn't mean it will cause physical pain.

The odds that any outlandish space claim they made was genuine is almost zero considering all of the above.
Yes, when you ignore all the actual evidence and instead paint in in a paranoid spotlight.
But there is nothing sane about your reasoning.

I’m from the Netherlands and the best prime minister post WW2 called Willem Drees received petrified wood as a gift instead of moonrock.
Where this was in no way presented as a moon rock, being completely inconsistent with the samples actually given out. It was significantly larger than any of the other samples and presented in a completely different manner.
They also have the 2 samples that were officially given to the Netherlands, and people can't find a problem with that.

There is absolutely no sane reason to think that this was presented on behalf of NASA as an actual rock from the moon by anyone who actually bothers looking into it.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on August 16, 2018, 04:24:21 PM
Quote
OD
When we look at NASA's figures of pressure in outer space it is assumed that it is 100000000000000 times more of a vacuum (less pressure) than anything that has been created in any vacuum chamber on Earth. This means that the greatest vacuum created in a vacuum chamber is no where near that of what, supposedly, exists in outer space. If anything enters the vacuum of outer space it would disintegrate immediately into almost nothingness, molecular bonding forces would not be sufficient to maintain structure under such circumstance.
Can't people realise that "100000000000000 times more of a vacuum (less pressure) than anything that has been created in any vacuum chamber on Earth" is just closer to zero pressure?

It also is factually wrong.

Like a 5-year old who wants a really big number ("a hundred!" "a million!" "a bazillion!") the poster just adds arbitrary zeroes.

LEO, the moon's atmosphere, and achievable lab vacuums are all about the same level - give or take one or two orders of magnitude.

And yeah, the poster just doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 17, 2018, 05:51:32 AM
Yes, also known as religion.
But you seem fine with that with your preaching of a creator.

The best you have to question their credibility is them reading a book full of garbage.

Except you clearly haven't as you still foolishly believe in a creator.
Meanwhile I discarded it and accepted reality.

You mean and you rejected all scientific progress, going back before the dark age and starting with the same religious nonsense?
What happened to you , did some priest caressed your private parts when you were a kid ?
So much frustration..... but i understand you like most of us were a victim of religion one way or the other...... but trying to find peace in the church of scientism isn't such a good idea Jack.
Quote
Yes, such as when looking to religious nonsense rather than science/reality. i.e. what you did.
Not quite Jacky,......i tried to wrap my head around modern cosmology and the M- theory specifically.
I know what your (underlying dogma's of the church of scientism) ultimate worldview will look like in the near future when the scientific community rewards the nobel prize !
An infinite number of universes, tiimelines, galaxies and variables based on accident and randomness only .....all wired into 11 dimensions of the multiverse.
The opposite of a creation with a specific goal in mind with specific chosen laws underneath all there is.
The acknowledged limitations of the current hypothetical universe and numbers that are erronious by a huge factor will only be solved by implementing the above.
You are a spag in modern cosmology, but that is about to chance with a huge factor of insignificance......

That is your reality Jack.......  enjoy it while it lasts, because nothing doesn't care about something.
Quote
Reality isn't indoctrinated info.
Even our observations influences 'reality' the moment we observe...... call your observation a mild form of indoctrination.
Your assumption that there is some 100% neutral way of establishing reality shows how much the church of scientism has got you by the balls.
Reality is partly hidden for every human being.
Quote
You are yet to provide any reason for why we should go back.
It is an extremely expensive process to send people to the moon.
There is no justification to go.
There isn't even the justification of making an achievement because it has already been done.

As such, your argument amounts to nothing
Simply because we CAN (so they claim)
That's human nature.... we primarely do things not because they are in the best interrests of humanity, but simply because we CAN.
Mass consumerism is the sole foundation for this characterisation.
We mass consume because we can, despite the fact that earth is dearly suffering because of it and the majority suffers from severe overweight and other health issues both physically and mentally.....
Russia, China, India etc. have every reason to go to the moon to show the world America is not the only nation capable of that and to boast their own charismatic politics of internal surpression.
America has every reason to go back to use the moon as a stepping stone to other cosmic journeys.

The money would be raised within '24 hours' by rich oligarchs, Chinese businessmen and Arabian oil billioners if they could safely go to the moon.
That would be some status among their criminal friends...... wouldn't it ?

Again i give you accurate proof, but your indoctrinated brain will not allow you to download it into your fixed memory storage.
.....it will take me pages to defy all your absolute nonsical arguments.... so for now i won't botherwith most of your reply.


Rock solid evidence is that no one can go to the moon in 2018 and even if the whole world prioritizes intergallactic travel, we would not be able to go to the moon for a very, very long time.....  if ever.
This is not only proof that we cannot go to the moon now (manned mission).... but also the claim that one single unique and special nation 'under god's grace'  50 years ago was able to pull it off somehow where other, much lesser nations failed and still fail 50 years later.

You're such a good patriot Jack,.... aren't you ? ::)

Mere short sighted fantasies......
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 17, 2018, 06:03:07 AM
The “rock solid evidence” is that at its peak about 400 000 people were working on the Apollo program.

What do you think they were all doing?

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Lamaface on August 17, 2018, 08:40:33 AM
An infinite number of universes

In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 17, 2018, 09:09:01 AM
The “rock solid evidence” is that at its peak about 400 000 people were working on the Apollo program.

What do you think they were all doing?
Trying to design functional 'moon' equipment ?

But as you may have quessed...., only few 'new' what functional meant in relation to the final product on the moon in action...... 99% was assembling, designing bits and bytes from a much, much bigger jigsaw that showed  'moon mission accomplished'  the moment the thousends of pieces would be fit togerher in all respective stages.
But that however was total science fiction for the 400.000 working bees (minus a couple of hundred in the know...) only staring at one piece of the total puzzle during the entire Apollo epos.

Does that adequately answer your question ?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 17, 2018, 09:09:36 AM
An infinite number of universes

In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
See ? I knew it !!!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 17, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
The “rock solid evidence” is that at its peak about 400 000 people were working on the Apollo program.

What do you think they were all doing?
Trying to design functional 'moon' equipment ?

But as you may have quessed...., only few 'new' what functional meant in relation to the final product on the moon in action...... 99% was assembling, designing bits and bytes from a much, much bigger jigsaw that showed  'moon mission accomplished'  the moment the thousends of pieces would be fit togerher in all respective stages.
But that however was total science fiction for the 400.000 working bees (minus a couple of hundred in the know...) only staring at one piece of the total puzzle during the entire Apollo epos.

Does that adequately answer your question ?

Not really.

Because NASA didn’t order a few million individual components from suppliers and then claim to build a rocket out of it.

They ordered modules from the big contractors who then ordered subsystems from their suppliers, who ordered components from theirs, etc. (I don’t know the exact hierarchy).

However, every part needed to be designed and tested for a specific task to make a functional subsystem.  The subsystems needed to be designed and tested for a specific task in the larger assemblies.

So a surface mounted component needed to work on the right integrated circuit board, which needed to work to be built into the flight computer, which needed to work to make the command module.  (Incidentally, integrated circuits were first developed for the space race and went on to revolutionize electronics).

Failure at any level would have caused a major ruckus at the company working on it, the level above who needed it to complete their system and depending on how long it was delayed would have been noticed further up the chain.

To design a system to fake it while keeping most of the people involved fooled would probably be more difficult and just as expensive as doing it for real.  And that’s before faking the landing itself.

In all this time have any engineers  come forward to claim the thing they designed and built couldn’t have done the job?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: markjo on August 17, 2018, 10:23:00 AM
An infinite number of universes

In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
See ? I knew it !!!
But in that universe, their Dutchy argues that they DID go to the moon.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 17, 2018, 10:48:10 AM
An infinite number of universes
C
In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
See ? I knew it !!!
But in that universe, their Dutchy argues that they DID go to the moon.
I allready dislike this dutchy with a vegeance  >:(..... this universe is the only true cosmic highway all others are mere side roads.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Lamaface on August 17, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
An infinite number of universes
C
In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
See ? I knew it !!!
But in that universe, their Dutchy argues that they DID go to the moon.
I allready dislike this dutchy with a vegeance  >:(..... this universe is the only true cosmic highway all others are mere side roads.
That’s exactly what anti-Dutchy would say about his universe. 
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 17, 2018, 11:19:26 AM
An infinite number of universes
C
In the infinite multiverse, there’s a universe where NASA did actually NOT go to the moon
See ? I knew it !!!
But in that universe, their Dutchy argues that they DID go to the moon.
I allready dislike this dutchy with a vegeance  >:(..... this universe is the only true cosmic highway all others are mere side roads.
That’s exactly what anti-Dutchy would say about his universe.
Grrrrr ....i would like to start an interdimensional spacerace...... look who is first to discover the other person's universe.
I choose to go to the boundaries of our universe not because they are easily found, but because they are hard to find and even harder to cross ; that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our esoteric energies and surpressed Tesla technologies, because that challenge is one that all anti Einsteinian YouTuber's are willing to accept,  one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and anti dutchy and his Apollo bandwagon too.

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 17, 2018, 02:42:12 PM
i understand you like most of us were a victim of religion one way or the other
And you clearly still are, unlike me who has discarded religion and moved to rational thought to find out the truth.
Unfortunately, your religious indoctrination prevents you from realising that so you discard reason and think of reason as a religion.

The opposite of a creation with a specific goal in mind with specific chosen laws underneath all there is.
And that is why you don't like it?
You don't like the idea of not needing a creator?

You have no rational objection to it.

call your observation a mild form of indoctrination.
Good job showing you don't care about reality or truth, dismissing observations as indoctrination.

Just what would you accept as not being indoctrination? Just accepting your delusional nonsense?

Simply because we CAN (so they claim)
NASA could also get a load of rocket fuel and blow every facility they have. Should they? NO!
Because we can is not a reason to waste loads of money.
Do you have an actual reason to do it?

At best, "because we can" works the first time. Not for repeats.

Mass consumerism is the sole foundation for this characterisation.
Then you clearly don't understand.
We consume thing because of loads of advertising trying to convince us to. Not simply because we can but because it makes us want to.
They provide these ads because they want to make money.
They will provide cheap crap because they want to make money.
People will buy the cheap crap because they are lazy and it either tastes good (for food) or is cheap or because they want to because of the ads.

It has nothing at all to do with "because we can".
People don't just stop at every Maccas they go past to buy food because they can.
People don't just go and buy a new phone every day because they can.

Russia, China, India etc. have every reason to go to the moon to show the world America is not the only nation capable of that
Going to the moon is no longer a significant achievement.
I'm pretty sure most people accept Russia could send people to the moon if they wanted to.

America has every reason to go back to use the moon as a stepping stone to other cosmic journeys.
In just what way do you imagine the moon to be a stepping stone?
It is more like a stepping ditch because you would be going into a gravity well that you would then need to escape.
The moon as a stepping stone only works as a flyby, i.e. going past it without stopping.

The money would be raised within '24 hours' by rich oligarchs, Chinese businessmen and Arabian oil billioners if they could safely go to the moon.
That would be some status among their criminal friends...... wouldn't it ?
The Arabians would be hesitant of trying to one up Mo and what impact that would have on their lives back home.
But notice a key word you used? SAFELY.
How much shit would NASA or SpaceX be in if something went wrong? How safe would it need to be for these people to fund it?
Are they willing to accept the radiation that they would experience in space?
Are they willing to accept that they could be stranded on the moon?

Regardless, that would be on them to get the money together and approach someone. It would be on NASA to try to convince them.

Again i give you accurate proof
No, you bitch and moan that they don't do what you want.
That is not proof that they didn't go to the moon.
You are yet to provide a single rational reason for why they should go to the moon.
And even if you managed to do so, that doesn't make it proof that they didn't go.

it will take me pages to defy all your absolute nonsical arguments
You mean it will take you pages to try and BS your way out of my sound arguments.

Rock solid evidence is that no one can go to the moon in 2018
That doesn't show that we couldn't have gone to the moon in the past or the future.
The best your "rock solid" evidence is is that we do not currently have all the things required just sitting there to go to the moon and would need to construct it and assemble it, which would take considerable time.

and even if the whole world prioritizes intergallactic travel, we would not be able to go to the moon for a very, very long time
Because they would be prioritising intergalactic travel which would make the moon irrelevant.
Meanwhile if they prioritised going to the moon, people would be able to go very quickly.

This is not only proof that we cannot go to the moon now
No. That is all it is proof of. It is proof that we can't go right now.
It is not proof that it is impossible with current technology. It is not proof that it was impossible in the past.
It merely means that we can't go right now.

You're such a good patriot Jack
Nope. I'm not even American.

Mere short sighted fantasies......
Well at least you are finally admitting your problem.

Grrrrr ....i would like to start an interdimensional spacerace...... look who is first to discover the other person's universe.
That's hardly fair.
To make it a fair race you will need to let them know first.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 17, 2018, 06:50:31 PM
I choose to go to the boundaries of our universe not because they are easily found, but because they are hard to find and even harder to cross ; that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our esoteric energies and surpressed Tesla technologies.
Why don't you try to reach the boundaries of Tesla's Universe? Tesla was no small Universe flat earther!
I cannot understand how you can think that you are so much smarter than Martin Luther, John Calvin and Nikola Tesla when it comes to the shape of the earth. They all knew it to be a Globe.

Tesla was right.

What I can't work out is why Tesla seems to be held up as a hero by so many flat earthers.  He certainly did not believe the earth to be flat or stationary! See this address by him:
HOW COSMIC FORCES SHAPE OUR DESTINIES, ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake") by Nikola Tesla (http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1915-02-07.htm)
also at — How Cosmic Forces Shape Our Destinies — ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake"), New York American, February 7, 1915 (https://www.pbs.org/tesla/res/res_art10.html)  in which he states:
Quote from: Nicola Tesla
NATURAL FORCES INFLUENCE US
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Accepting all this as true let us consider some of the forces and influences which act on such a wonderfully complex automatic engine with organs inconceivably sensitive and delicate, as it is carried by the spinning terrestrial globe in lightning flight through space. For the sake of simplicity we may assume that the earth's axis is perpendicular to the ecliptic and that the human automaton is at the equator. Let his weight be one hundred and sixty pounds then, at the rotational velocity of about 1,520 feet per second with which he is whirled around, the mechanical energy stored in his body will be nearly 5,780,000 foot pounds, which is about the energy of a hundred-pound cannon ball.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The sun, having a mass 332,000 times that of the earth, but being 23,000 times farther, will attract the automaton with a force of about one-tenth of one pound, alternately increasing and diminishing his normal weight by that amount

Though not conscious of these periodic changes, he is surely affected by them.

The earth in its rotation around the sun carries him with the prodigious speed of nineteen miles per second . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From the above address.
I have also read, though I cannot verify it right now, that one reason Tesla disliked Einstein so much is that he believed that  Einstein destroyed "Newton's gravitation".
From what I can gather, Tesla did not deny Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, just differed with Einstein's "curved spacetime" explanation of it.

Sure, Nicola Tesla had a lot of "different ideas", but he most certainly did not believe in a flat stationary earth.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: dutchy on August 18, 2018, 01:27:48 AM
I choose to go to the boundaries of our universe not because they are easily found, but because they are hard to find and even harder to cross ; that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our esoteric energies and surpressed Tesla technologies.
Why don't you try to reach the boundaries of Tesla's Universe? Tesla was no small Universe flat earther!
I cannot understand how you can think that you are so much smarter than Martin Luther, John Calvin and Nikola Tesla when it comes to the shape of the earth. They all knew it to be a Globe.

Tesla was right.

What I can't work out is why Tesla seems to be held up as a hero by so many flat earthers.  He certainly did not believe the earth to be flat or stationary! See this address by him:
HOW COSMIC FORCES SHAPE OUR DESTINIES, ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake") by Nikola Tesla (http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1915-02-07.htm)
also at — How Cosmic Forces Shape Our Destinies — ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake"), New York American, February 7, 1915 (https://www.pbs.org/tesla/res/res_art10.html)  in which he states:
Quote from: Nicola Tesla
NATURAL FORCES INFLUENCE US
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Accepting all this as true let us consider some of the forces and influences which act on such a wonderfully complex automatic engine with organs inconceivably sensitive and delicate, as it is carried by the spinning terrestrial globe in lightning flight through space. For the sake of simplicity we may assume that the earth's axis is perpendicular to the ecliptic and that the human automaton is at the equator. Let his weight be one hundred and sixty pounds then, at the rotational velocity of about 1,520 feet per second with which he is whirled around, the mechanical energy stored in his body will be nearly 5,780,000 foot pounds, which is about the energy of a hundred-pound cannon ball.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The sun, having a mass 332,000 times that of the earth, but being 23,000 times farther, will attract the automaton with a force of about one-tenth of one pound, alternately increasing and diminishing his normal weight by that amount

Though not conscious of these periodic changes, he is surely affected by them.

The earth in its rotation around the sun carries him with the prodigious speed of nineteen miles per second . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From the above address.
I have also read, though I cannot verify it right now, that one reason Tesla disliked Einstein so much is that he believed that  Einstein destroyed "Newton's gravitation".
From what I can gather, Tesla did not deny Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, just differed with Einstein's "curved spacetime" explanation of it.

Sure, Nicola Tesla had a lot of "different ideas", but he most certainly did not believe in a flat stationary earth.
Ermmm i was joking around ..... nothing serious.

But since you mention the name of Calvin a lot as if the name ‘Calvin’ should impress me as a co- founder of protestantism and globe earth believer.

Calvin was also in favour of burning ‘witches’ and ‘one should not show pity towards such evil doers’ ...... he Calvin admitted he would be first in line to execute if needed.
If one studies his invented dogma’s , than one realises he is nothing more than a dark and disturbed ‘wanna be’ church leader , deeply hanging onto wordily influence.
Most of his writings have enslaved ordinary people in a very self destructive way without feeling joy or freedom without feeling guilty to the bone.

I shouldn’t mention Calvin as much as you do as an authority on ‘globe earth’.
Because i personally don’t trust one single thing that man had to say or proclaim , observing the fruits of his works.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 18, 2018, 01:59:12 AM
I shouldn’t mention Calvin as much as you do as an authority on ‘globe earth’.
Really, and why not?
Dutchy, what was the Old Testament penalty for witchcraft and heresy - if "offering sacrifices to any god except me" might be interpreted as heresy?
Quote from: Exodus 22:18, 20
18 Death is the punishment for witchcraft.
20 Death is the punishment for offering sacrifices to any god except me.
Now, I do not believe that applies in the New Testament era but it was the teaching of "The Church" up to that time.
John Calvin was no more nor less than a man of his time and while we don't agree some allowance needs to be made for that.
One could possibly say that he had not left all the baggage of "The Roman Church" behind while Martin Luther did to a much greater extent.

Quote from: dutchy
Because i personally don’t trust one single thing that man had to say or proclaim, observing the fruits of his works.
So, I would still claim that John Cavin's writings do accurately reflect the belief in the shape of the earth at that time.

And Martin Luther, the leader of the reformation - would you agree that he accurately reflected the belief in the shape of the earth at that time?

And if I were you I wouldn’t mention Telstra as much as flat earthers do as an authority on ‘flat earth’ - he was very much a heliocentrist.

But one my first attempt at finding an "authority on the flat earth", I gave up.
Of course there were the ancient Babylonians but they had only very primitive ideas and applied much of their knowledge of the stars to astrology.

Then we could skip to the mid-1800s and a quack medico called Rowbotham.
Even though apparently never setting foot outside the UK, he claimed the earth looked like:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wwgicfcktlhvn5/ENaG%20Fig.%2054%20Diagram%20of%20the%20earths%20surface.png?dl=1)
This is despite the fact that reasonably accurate maps of the Globe were available. Not only that, but he made outrageously false claims about distances in the southern hemisphere, even though there had been a great deal or exploration.

Note that Rowbotham's ridiculous map has no South Pole - preposterous!

So step forward to Albert Smith (who wrote under the name Zetetes), an author and Flat Earth advocate during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.
Zetetes recognised the reality of Antarctica as an island continent and proposed a flat earth layout like:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9l04e9828ets3r/Sea-Earth%20Globe%20The%20Zetetes%20Fig%2025_zpskcdgepnm.png?dl=1)
Zetetes bi-polar continental layout.
         

Later modernised to:
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Flat%20Earth%20Bi-polar%20map%20-%201272_zpsfub8glzp.png)
Flat Earth "Bipolar" Map
A number of modern flat-earthers claim that the layout of the flat earth is something like that.

But, I'll leave it here and ask you, "Where are there any authorities on the flat-earth?"
It looks to me as though all flat-earthers have different ideas as they scrabble for ideas to patch over the impossibility of a flat earth.

Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 18, 2018, 08:45:23 AM
Quote
Note that Rowbotham's ridiculous map has no South Pole - preposterous!

The South Pole was still undiscovered in the mid 1800's.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 18, 2018, 02:40:53 PM
The South Pole was still undiscovered in the mid 1800's.
I would more say it was discovered in the early 1800s, around 1820, with more extensive exploration later on in mid 1800s.
Meanwhile, Row Boat was only born in 1816.
And his first pile of nonsense was published after Antarctica was discovered.
So that is hardly an excuse.

Another massive problem is Australia and NZ which look nothing at all like they do on that map and are in the wrong location.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 18, 2018, 03:59:31 PM
Quote
Note that Rowbotham's ridiculous map has no South Pole - preposterous!

The South Pole was still undiscovered in the mid 1800's.
But the existence of Antarctica as an island continent was known so that excuse for Rowbotham's appalling ignorance simply will not wash.
The first to circumnavigate Antarctica was Captain James Cook. Have you ever heard of him?
Quote
The first explorer to circumnavigate Antarctica was James Cook, who made three voyages from 1772 to 1775. He crossed the Antarctic Circle four times, making his first official crossing in January, 1773.
So Captain Cook certainly knew that the circumference of the Antarctic Circle was not the almost 110,000 km (almost 68,000 miles) that the Antarctic Circle would be on Rowbotham's ridiculous map!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 18, 2018, 06:46:40 PM
The South Pole was still undiscovered in the mid 1800's.
I would more say it was discovered in the early 1800s, around 1820, with more extensive exploration later on in mid 1800s.
Meanwhile, Row Boat was only born in 1816.
And his first pile of nonsense was published after Antarctica was discovered.
So that is hardly an excuse.

Another massive problem is Australia and NZ which look nothing at all like they do on that map and are in the wrong location.

Discovery of Antarctica is not the same as discovery of the South Pole.

So Captain Cook certainly knew that the circumference of the Antarctic Circle was not the almost 110,000 km (almost 68,000 miles) that the Antarctic Circle would be on Rowbotham's ridiculous map!

Those types of voyages lasted for years at a time. Not exactly a car's odometer. That fact was often used in the Flat Earth discussions around Rowbotham's time.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 18, 2018, 08:22:36 PM

Discovery of Antarctica is not the same as discovery of the South Pole.
Who is pretending that it is?

Quote from: Tom Bishop
So Captain Cook certainly knew that the circumference of the Antarctic Circle was not the almost 110,000 km (almost 68,000 miles) that the Antarctic Circle would be on Rowbotham's ridiculous map!

Those types of voyages lasted for years at a time. Not exactly a car's odometer. That fact was often used in the Flat Earth discussions around Rowbotham's time.
Nobody is suggesting the accuracy of "a car's odometer".
We are looking at 68,000 miles compared to 10,000 miles (actually 10,975 mi) around the Antarctic Circle.

Sure, Captain James Cook during his 1772-1775 voyage circumnavigated Antarctica, but
the whole voyage lasted about three years
and the whole voyage covered about 70,000 miles if I remember rightly.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Cook%27sSecondVoyage53.png/600px-Cook%27sSecondVoyage53.png)
The route of Cook's second voyage
You can read the details in A Voyage Round the World in His Majesty's Sloop, Resolution, commanded by Capt. James Cook, during the Years 1772, 3, 4, 5, Georg Forster (http://pacific.obdurodon.org/ForsterGeorgComplete.html)

Now, his whole route covered only about 70,000 miles and look at his route! He spent the winter in warmer regions and not travelling around Antarctica.

Now, I fully realise that ships' logs are subject to considerable errors but a seaman like Captain Cook could never confuse the 10,975 mi around the Antarctic Circle on the Globe with the 68,000 miles it would be on the Ice-Wall map of Rowbotham.

Shall we look into the further obvious errors in Rowbotham's claims, especially about the Southern Hemisphere? That really opens a can-of-worms!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 18, 2018, 11:37:49 PM
How do you think that Captain Cook measured distance? He used the stars and the Round Earth concept of latitude lines being evenly spaces to gauge position and the distance between points. Lat/Lon is a spherical coordinate system.

Captain Cook didn't run a little water wheel across the sea. In fact, since ships and airplanes are typically operating in fluids that are in motion within other fluids, such devices have proven to be rather useless for navigation. Airspeed instruments on a plane, for example, are only used to let the pilot know how much wind is passing over the wing at any given time for banking maneuvers and such. The existence of odometers for ships and planes is a false notion. Navigation is achieved through other external means.

Captain Cook could easily have assumed that he is traveling against the flow of the sea to explain his slow journey, as he is entirely dependent on the stars.

Then again, all of this is moot. The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Copper Knickers on August 18, 2018, 11:58:40 PM
The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 19, 2018, 01:51:51 AM
How do you think that Captain Cook measured distance? He used the stars and the Round Earth concept of latitude lines being evenly spaces to gauge position and the distance between points. Lat/Lon is a spherical coordinate system.

Captain Cook didn't run a little water wheel across the sea. In fact, since ships and airplanes are typically operating in fluids that are in motion within other fluids, such devices have proven to be rather useless for navigation. Airspeed instruments on a plane, for example, are only used to let the pilot know how much wind is passing over the wing at any given time for banking maneuvers and such. The existence of odometers for ships and planes is a false notion. Navigation is achieved through other external means.

Captain Cook could easily have assumed that he is traveling against the flow of the sea to explain his slow journey, as he is entirely dependent on the stars.

Then again, all of this is moot. The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
Which "The Flat Earth Society"? Please show some credible of this "official switching over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole".

And look a the Home Page header of The Flat Earth Society at TFES.org (http://Flat Earth Society):
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfygm297ko8a3zj/TFES%20Home%20page%20header.jpg?dl=1)
That Home Page header makes this claim look totally ridiculous!
"The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.".

This site and the numerous posters of videos on YouTube seem to be hardly aware of it.
And there are many many times more flat earthers making flat earth videos than on both Flat Earth Society sites combined.

Who might be one of the most prominent Flat Earther outside these sites? Possibly Mark Sargent? So just look at this video of his from 2:30 onwards:

FLAT EARTH Clues Part 3 - Map Makers - Mark Sargent

No, almost all flat earthers except you and a couple of others, all argue vehemently that Antarctica is a ring around the flat earth and is guarded by UN or NASA storm troopers or something like that.

Surely, if the earth is really flat then you can get together and work out its rough continental layout - in the meantime the Globe goes rotating gracefully on.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 19, 2018, 03:30:58 AM
Discovery of Antarctica is not the same as discovery of the South Pole.
Well if you wanted to go that way, people already knew that existed long before the 1800s, so I really don't see what point you are trying to make.

Those types of voyages lasted for years at a time. Not exactly a car's odometer. That fact was often used in the Flat Earth discussions around Rowbotham's time.
And weren't a simple case of just circling once.

If it was going to go around the FE south ring, it would have taken much longer, unless you want to suggest some magical water flow helping him out wherever he went?

The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole
There are numerous FE societies/groups, with none being more official than the other.
Regardless, the bi-polar model fixes nothing. It merely pushes the problems around.

The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
i.e. people ignoring reality and instead clinging to outdated nonsense, i.e. FE.
The existence of any FE model is purely a result of people reading some ignorant nonsense, rejecting reality and not reading research (or doing it themselves) which shows Earth to be round beyond any sane doubt.

So I wouldn't recommend trying to apply that standard to attack the monopolar model.

Meanwhile, the monopolar model has significantly less issues for the northern hemisphere, including a very simplistic explanation of explaining the sun's motion and position, without any prefered NS connector and doesn't make the existing flights between the US and Asia complete nonsense and just requires people to ignore issues with the southern hemisphere and the issues common to all FE models.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: markjo on August 19, 2018, 01:20:44 PM
Quote
Note that Rowbotham's ridiculous map has no South Pole - preposterous!

The South Pole was still undiscovered in the mid 1800's.
The fact that the round earth has a south pole was known for a very long time before the mid 1800s.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 19, 2018, 01:51:51 PM
The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!

It was theorized to exist.

Quote
Which "The Flat Earth Society"? Please show some credible of this "official switching over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole".

After Rowbotham's death the Zetetic Society was passed to the leadership of Lady Blount, who ran a monthly scientific journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review, later renamed Earth. The journal published continuing studies of the earth, discusses how the 32 mile figure for the sun's diameter was determined, and chronicles the switching over to a two-pole model of the earth around the time of the discovery of the South Pole.

Lady Blount also discusses the two pole model in the book Zetetic Astronomy (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/books/Zetetic%20Astronomy%20(Lady%20Blount%20and%20Albert%20Smith).pdf). Like the book The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, which was published in the same era, Lady Blount and Albert Smith discuss newfound evidence for the South Pole, and updates the Flat Earth model with the Bi-Polar Model.

This is just as well, since the original Flat Earth model before Rowbotham had three poles, as discussed in the early 1800's Flat Earth book, The Anti-Newtonian. This is the model Rowbotham based the Earth Not a Globe concept on, except that he simplified it down to one pole due to lack of evidence.

Quote
And look a the Home Page header of The Flat Earth Society at TFES.org:

Considering that I was the one who wrote most of the Wikis for those websites, based on the model we came up with 11 years ago, I can say that it was all purely based on Earth Not a Globe, and that we did did not consider any other works. This is because we didn't even know about them. The other works did not become available online until later.

Quote
This site and the numerous posters of videos on YouTube seem to be hardly aware of it.
And there are many many times more flat earthers making flat earth videos than on both Flat Earth Society sites combined.

Those youtubers took their model from us. They did not make and research their own original Flat Earth model.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Copper Knickers on August 19, 2018, 02:18:44 PM
The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!

It was theorized to exist.

Indeed, and the explorers validated the theory. What was the basis for that theory, do you suppose?

Considering that I was the one who wrote most of the Wikis for those websites, based on the model we came up with 11 years ago, I can say that it was all purely based on Earth Not a Globe, and that we did did not consider any other works.

At the time you did this, did you not think the existence of the South Pole problematical?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 19, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
It was theorized to exist.
No, it was known.
You can't have a rotating round Earth (which was KNOWN) without a south pole.
It is the same axis as the north pole, it is simply where it passes through south of the equator.

After Rowbotham's death the Zetetic Society was passed to the leadership of Lady Blount, who ran a monthly scientific journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review, later renamed Earth. The journal published continuing studies of the earth, discusses how the 32 mile figure for the sun's diameter was determined, and chronicles the switching over to a two-pole model of the earth around the time of the discovery of the South Pole.
So not "The FE society"
Instead it was a Zetetic Society which didn't even practice Zeteticism.

he simplified it down to one pole due to lack of evidence.
If he wanted to simply due to lack of evidence, how about simplifying it down to nothing as there is no evidence of a FE existing at all?


They did not make and research their own original Flat Earth model.
Of course.
FE only propagates by nonsense like this.
If they were to do research they would realise Earth is round.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 19, 2018, 02:49:20 PM
The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!

It was theorized to exist.

Indeed, and the explorers validated the theory. What was the basis for that theory, do you suppose?

Its based on the theory of magnets. Magnets have two poles. The Earth has two poles. If the Earth is Flat, it has two poles. Makes sense to me.

Quote
Considering that I was the one who wrote most of the Wikis for those websites, based on the model we came up with 11 years ago, I can say that it was all purely based on Earth Not a Globe, and that we did did not consider any other works.

At the time you did this, did you not think the existence of the South Pole problematical?

At the time of this forum's creation the concept of a Flat Earth was rather vague. It was more of a free for all where the Flat Earth could be whatever you wanted it to be. There were no graphics on the website. It was just a forum.

The goal of the project was only to explain and figure out the nature of the Flat Earth model as historically depicted to get away from the vague free-for-all theme of the forums. Only Earth Not a Globe and perhaps a couple of other works were available, and so that is what was used.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 19, 2018, 03:03:28 PM
Quote
Which "The Flat Earth Society"? Please show some credible of this "official switching over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole".

After Rowbotham's death the Zetetic Society was passed to the leadership of Lady Blount, who ran a monthly scientific journal called The Earth Not a Globe Review, later renamed Earth. The journal published continuing studies of the earth, discusses how the 32 mile figure for the sun's diameter was determined, and chronicles the switching over to a two-pole model of the earth around the time of the discovery of the South Pole.

Lady Blount also discusses the two pole model in the book Zetetic Astronomy (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/books/Zetetic%20Astronomy%20(Lady%20Blount%20and%20Albert%20Smith).pdf). Like the book The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, which was published in the same era, Lady Blount and Albert Smith discuss newfound evidence for the South Pole, and updates the Flat Earth model with the Bi-Polar Model.
That seems totally at odds with your claim in the following post:
Then again, all of this is moot. The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back. The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
There you clearly stated "The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's".
From what you have written and what I have read there was no "Flat Earth Society" in "in the early 1900's".
There was the "Zetetic Society" and apparently that virtually died out in the UK by the time of Lady Blount's death in December 1935.
Samuel Shenton founded the Flat Earth Society in 1956, after renaming it from the Universal Zetetic Society so the reigns sort of passed to a society called "The Flat Earth Society".
But Shenton's model of the flat earth was:
Quote
that the earth was a flat disk centred on the North Pole with the zetetic notion of the South Pole being an impenetrable wall of ice, that marked the edge of the pit that is the earth in the endless flat plane forming the universe. The sun cast a narrow beam like a flashlight moving over a table as it traced flat circles that varied over the 365-day cycles. The sun was 32 miles (51 km) in diameter 3,000 miles (4,800 km) above the earth and the moon also 32 miles in diameter but only 2,550 miles (4,100 km) above the earth.
In other words, more or less the current Ice-Wall flat earth.

And Samuel Shenton developed his Ice-Wall model long after the South Pole had been visited many time and Antarctica quite well explored.

So I fail to see how you can claim that "The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's".

Quote from: Tom Bishop
This is just as well, since the original Flat Earth model before Rowbotham had three poles, as discussed in the early 1800's Flat Earth book, The Anti-Newtonian. This is the model Rowbotham based the Earth Not a Globe concept on, except that he simplified it down to one pole due to lack of evidence.

Quote
And look at the Home Page header of The Flat Earth Society at TFES.org:
Considering that I was the one who wrote most of the Wikis for those websites, based on the model we came up with 11 years ago, I can say that it was all purely based on Earth Not a Globe, and that we did not consider any other works. This is because we didn't even know about them. The other works did not become available online until later.
Look, if the "Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's" why on earth didn't you uses this "official model"?
The answer is simply that the Bi-polar model was not Samuel Shenton's model and never has been the official model of "The Flat Earth Society".

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Quote
This site and the numerous posters of videos on YouTube seem to be hardly aware of it.
And there are many many times more flat earthers making flat earth videos than on both Flat Earth Society sites combined.

Those youtubers took their model from us. They did not make and research their own original Flat Earth model.
Yes, the took the Ice-Wall model from your society and that is my whole point! . Whatever you claim the Ice-Wall model seems to be the accepted flat-earth.

Now you may wonder why I labour this so much!
The point is that neither Samuel Rowbotham nor Samuel Shenton had any right to construct a cosmology and a layout for the earth when they were provably so ignorant of geography and the most elementary astronomy!
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Copper Knickers on August 19, 2018, 03:16:59 PM
The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!

It was theorized to exist.

Indeed, and the explorers validated the theory. What was the basis for that theory, do you suppose?

Its based on the theory of magnets. Magnets have two poles. The Earth has two poles. If the Earth is Flat, it has two poles. Makes sense to me.

Are you honestly claiming that Amundsen set forth on his adventure based on the 'theory of magnets'? Why, then, would he expend so much effort getting to the geographic south pole rather than the magnetic one? It doesn't make sense. Citation requested.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 19, 2018, 03:46:53 PM
Indeed, and the explorers validated the theory. What was the basis for that theory, do you suppose?

Its based on the theory of magnets. Magnets have two poles. The Earth has two poles. If the Earth is Flat, it has two poles. Makes sense to me.

Thats total rubbish.  A magnet can have a south pole in the centre and a north pole distributed around the outside, roughly like a speaker magnet:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbzpqz1w1tuxquv/Loudspeaker%20Magnet.png?dl=1)
Or even a vertical bar magnet with the south pole point up as the disk earth's north magnetic pole.

But Amundsen and Scott KNEW that there was a South Pole because they and most people before them knew that the earth was a Globe!

If they didn't believe that the earth was a Globe why were terrestrial Globes being made before 1500 AD?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Behaim_Globus.jpg/390px-Behaim_Globus.jpg)
The "Erdapfel" of Martin Behaim is the oldest surviving terrestrial globe.
The Americas are not yet included. 1491-1493.
Germanisches Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg.
They KNEW that there was a South Pole!

And I do wish that modern flat-earthers would realise that the none of the many current flat-earth cosmologies bear any relationship to the flat-earth cosmologies of the ancient cosmologies of the Babylonians and Hebrews or even the Chinese.

Apart from some early Taoists, as far as I can ascertain none of those models had the celestial objects circling above the flat earth.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 19, 2018, 05:02:50 PM
Its based on the theory of magnets. Magnets have two poles. The Earth has two poles. If the Earth is Flat, it has two poles. Makes sense to me.
No. It had nothing at all to do with magnets.
It was to do with the fact that Earth was a rotating roughly spherical object.

A rotating object has an axis of rotation. This axis passes through 2 points, one at the north and one at the south.
The location where it passes through the north side is the north pole, and the location where it passes through the south side is the south pole.
The decision of north and south is based upon the right hand rule (at least now) where if you wrap the fingers on your right hand around the object, such that it rotates from your palm to your fingertips, your thumb points north.

Meanwhile, for magnets it is only an ideal dipole and the like which has 2 poles.
You can combine the dipoles to make a single pole at the centre with a ring of opposite polarity, or you can have a multipole, where a common example is a common fridge magnet.

The men you discussed were not trying to filocate a south magnetic pole (note: A, not THE. Due to Earth's magnetic field not being an ideal dipole it is possible for Earth to generate multiple poles which likely occurs during polarity switching). That is quite accessible, being quite close to the Antarctic shore (and now in the ocean), and quite distant from the geographic south pole.
The pole these men set out to go to (again, they weren't trying to confirm its existence, they already knew it existed, they just wanted to go there) was the pole associated with rotation, where the stars would appear to remain at the same height and circle around you. It had nothing at all to do with magnets.


For a FE, it can have 2 poles associated with rotation, one on the top side, one on the bottom, and the same can apply as a magnet.
It could also be like a ring magnet, having one pole in the centre and a ring of opposite polarity.
Having 2 discrete poles just asks why this location is special. And that is one major problem with the bi-polar model. Why is any longitude preferred? How do you decide which is the magic one which has a straight line connecting north and south?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 19, 2018, 10:08:21 PM
Samuel Shenton founded the Flat Earth Society in 1956, after renaming it from the Universal Zetetic Society so the reigns sort of passed to a society called "The Flat Earth Society".

Who passed what reigns? His society was called the "International Flat Earth Research Society," and our models bear no resemblance to his model that has a literal seven heavens and angles who create the winds.

Quote
But Shenton's model of the flat earth was:
Quote
that the earth was a flat disk centred on the North Pole with the zetetic notion of the South Pole being an impenetrable wall of ice, that marked the edge of the pit that is the earth in the endless flat plane forming the universe.

That's Rowbotham's basic model.

Quote
In other words, more or less the current Ice-Wall flat earth.

And Samuel Shenton developed his Ice-Wall model long after the South Pole had been visited many time and Antarctica quite well explored.

So I fail to see how you can claim that "The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's".

No one thinks Shenton and Johnson's versions were real successors to the Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society. The Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society were real scientific organizations with a budget and who conducted real scientific research, while Shenton and Johnson revived only the basic concepts of the past and were running one-man-shows.

Quote
The answer is simply that the Bi-polar model was not Samuel Shenton's model and never has been the official model of "The Flat Earth Society".

Who is Samuel Shenton and what has he contributed to the Flat Earth model? Last I checked we didn't have a literal seven heavens or angles creating the winds in our model. There were several people who had their own Flat Earth and Zetetic Society relaunch attempts, not just Shenton.

Quote
Now you may wonder why I labour this so much!
The point is that neither Samuel Rowbotham nor Samuel Shenton had any right to construct a cosmology and a layout for the earth when they were provably so ignorant of geography and the most elementary astronomy!

You don't know the first thing about what astronomy even is, or how things are predicted. I see you as the ignorant one.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 19, 2018, 10:22:49 PM
Quote from: Copper Knickers
Are you honestly claiming that Amundsen set forth on his adventure based on the 'theory of magnets'? Why, then, would he expend so much effort getting to the geographic south pole rather than the magnetic one? It doesn't make sense. Citation requested.

Where did I say anything about Amundsen? The South Geographic Pole was discovered at around the same time as the South Magnetic Pole. Both were theorized to exist. One involved magnets and the other involved the position of the sun. Learn history.

Its based on the theory of magnets. Magnets have two poles. The Earth has two poles. If the Earth is Flat, it has two poles. Makes sense to me.
No. It had nothing at all to do with magnets.
It was to do with the fact that Earth was a rotating roughly spherical object.

False. People were looking for the South Magnetic Pole.

Quote
The men you discussed were not trying to filocate a south magnetic pole

What men? I don't recall writing Amundsen.

Quote
The pole these men set out to go to (again, they weren't trying to confirm its existence, they already knew it existed, they just wanted to go there) was the pole associated with rotation, where the stars would appear to remain at the same height and circle around you. It had nothing at all to do with magnets.

I said nothing about Amundsen. People were looking for, and discovered, the South Magnetic Pole at the same time.

But Amundsen and Scott KNEW that there was a South Pole because they and most people before them knew that the earth was a Globe!

If they didn't believe that the earth was a Globe why were terrestrial Globes being made before 1500 AD?

What are you talking about? I said nothing about Amundsen, or what shape they believed the earth to be.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 19, 2018, 11:11:43 PM
His society was called the "International Flat Earth Research Society,"
And the one you discussed was called "the Zetetic Society".
So where is this official FE society that officially adopted the bipolar model?

The Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society were real scientific organizations with a budget and who conducted real scientific research
No they weren't.
If they were, they wouldn't be pretending Earth was flat.

There were several people who had their own Flat Earth and Zetetic Society relaunch attempts, not just Shenton.
And that is kind of the point. There is no official adoption of a model. There are a bunch of people with contradictory models, all of which fail to match reality.

I said nothing about Amundsen
No, instead you just tried deflecting an objection about the south pole being missing from the FE map, and pretend it was the magnetic pole people were focusing on.
The rotational pole is the killer for FE.
Also notice that in the delusional nonsense you linked it is primarily focusing on the apparent position of celestial objects, indicating it was the axis of rotation, not merely where the magnetic field is vertical?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Copper Knickers on August 20, 2018, 12:35:43 AM
Quote from: Copper Knickers
Are you honestly claiming that Amundsen set forth on his adventure based on the 'theory of magnets'? Why, then, would he expend so much effort getting to the geographic south pole rather than the magnetic one? It doesn't make sense. Citation requested.

Where did I say anything about Amundsen? The South Geographic Pole was discovered at around the same time as the South Magnetic Pole. Both were theorized to exist. One involved magnets and the other involved the position of the sun. Learn history.

In response to my point about Amundsen and Scott, you said:

This kind of implies that the South Pole wasn't known to be there and that Amundsen and later Scott just happened upon it. What amazing luck!

It was theorized to exist.

Clearly, then, we are talking about the South Geographic Pole as that was Amundsen and Scott's aim. Learn history.

As you say, the Geographic South Pole was theorized to exist, but what was the basis of that theory? It involved a bit more than the position of the sun, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 20, 2018, 03:02:08 AM
Samuel Shenton founded the Flat Earth Society in 1956, after renaming it from the Universal Zetetic Society so the reigns sort of passed to a society called "The Flat Earth Society".

Who passed what reigns? His society was called the "International Flat Earth Research Society," and our models bear no resemblance to his model that has a literal seven heavens and angles who create the winds.
From your own society and links contained therein!
Quote
Samuel Shenton
Samuel Shenton, a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and the Royal Geographic Society, founded the Flat Earth Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Society) in 1956, after renaming it from the Universal Zetetic Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Zetetic_Society). He led the Flat Earth Society from its founding in 1956 until his death in 1971, at which time leadership passed to Charles K. Johnson. Shenton collected material, gave lectures and generated publicity for the Society so that by his death in 1971 the Society had over 100 members.
Quote
Universal Zetetic Society
The Universal Zetetic Society (UZS) was the precursor to the Flat Earth Society. It was founded shortly after the death of Samuel Rowbotham (aka Parallax) by Rowbotham's adherents. The UZS was active well into the early part of the 20th century, publishing many issues of a magazine titled The Earth Not a Globe Review. In 1971, the UZS was renamed The Flat Earth Society when Samuel Shenton became its leader.
Just how many Flat Earth Societys are there?
Quote
Flat Earth Society
In New York and England, Samuel Rowbotham created the Zetetic Society. Following his death, Lady Elizabeth Blount founded the Universal Zetetic Society. These societies were based on interpretations of the Bedford Level Experiment. These societies placed more emphasis on Biblical arguments for flat earth theory than the modern FES, but also provided scientific arguments as well.

In 1956 Samuel Shenton founded the International Flat Earth Society. The FES gained publicity in 1964 following the beginning of manned spaceflight and articles about Shenton in The New York Times.

Samuel Shenton died in 1971, and Charles K. Johnson created the International Flat Earth Society of America after inheriting part of Shenton's library and was able to raise membership to 3,000 people. Johnson dispersed newsletters, flyers, and other media to the public upon request.

However by 1980 the FES fell to 200 members. A house fire and the death of Johnson's wife further afflicted the FES in America. Johnson died on March 19, 2001, and the society no longer took in new members.

It has been revived in 2004 as an online community and the society was officially restarted in October 2009.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Quote
But Shenton's model of the flat earth was:
Quote
that the earth was a flat disk centred on the North Pole with the zetetic notion of the South Pole being an impenetrable wall of ice, that marked the edge of the pit that is the earth in the endless flat plane forming the universe.

That's Rowbotham's basic model.

Quote
In other words, more or less the current Ice-Wall flat earth.

And Samuel Shenton developed his Ice-Wall model long after the South Pole had been visited many time and Antarctica quite well explored.

So I fail to see how you can claim that "The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's".

No one thinks Shenton and Johnson's versions were real successors to the Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society. The Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society were real scientific organizations with a budget and who conducted real scientific research, while Shenton and Johnson revived only the basic concepts of the past and were running one-man-shows.
Your Flat Earth Society seems to. See the quotes above, "In 1956 Samuel Shenton founded the International Flat Earth Society. The FES gained publicity in 1964 following the beginning of manned spaceflight and articles about Shenton in The New York Times.

Samuel Shenton died in 1971, and Charles K. Johnson created the International Flat Earth Society of America
 . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .  . . . . . . . . . .. .
it has been revived in 2004 as an online community and the society was officially restarted in October 2009".
How else could one interpret, "it has been revived in 2004" all under the history of the Flat Earth Society.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Quote
The answer is simply that the Bi-polar model was not Samuel Shenton's model and never has been the official model of "The Flat Earth Society".

Who is Samuel Shenton and what has he contributed to the Flat Earth model? Last I checked we didn't have a literal seven heavens or angles creating the winds in our model. There were several people who had their own Flat Earth and Zetetic Society relaunch attempts, not just Shenton.
YOU ask "Who is Samuel Shenton"! Read your own Wiki! Samuel Shenton (https://wiki.tfes.org/Samuel_Shenton) and "your Wiki" links to,
Quote from: Wikipedia
Samuel Shenton
Shenton soon constructed a cosmology, based partly on his interpretation of Genesis, that the earth was a flat disk centred on the North Pole with the zetetic notion of the South Pole being an impenetrable wall of ice, that marked the edge of the pit that is the earth in the endless flat plane forming the universe. The sun cast a narrow beam like a flashlight moving over a table as it traced flat circles that varied over the 365-day cycles. The sun was 32 miles (51 km) in diameter 3,000 miles (4,800 km) above the earth and the moon also 32 miles in diameter but only 2,550 miles (4,100 km) above the earth.

In 1956 he founded the Flat Earth Society as a direct descendant of the Universal Zetetic Society but with a less religious emphasis, found a president in William Mills, a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers and held its inaugural meeting in November at Mills' home in London, with Shenton as secretary. One of the attendees, attending out of curiosity, was the Sky at Night astronomer Patrick Moore who recounted his experience in his book Can you speak Venusian?. Shenton claimed that George Bernard Shaw attended one meeting, declaring the presentation was "very persuasive". Despite his contrary ideas, Shenton was elected a fellow of both the Royal Astronomical and Royal Geographical Societies.

As linked from your Wiki in: The Flat Earth, Samuel Shenton (https://wiki.tfes.org/Samuel_Shenton)
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Quote
Now you may wonder why I labour this so much!
The point is that neither Samuel Rowbotham nor Samuel Shenton had any right to construct a cosmology and a layout for the earth when they were provably so ignorant of geography and the most elementary astronomy!

You don't know the first thing about what astronomy even is, or how things are predicted. I see you as the ignorant one.
I note that by stooping to ad hominen you realise that you haven't a leg to stand on.

My claim that, both Samuel Rowbotham and Samuel Shenton "were provably so ignorant of geography and the most elementary astronomy" is clearly quite correct as otherwise they would never have constructed a cosmology and a layout for the earth that was wrong.

I maintain that constructing a cosmology and a layout for the earth when one has virtually no knowledge of at least half the earth is totally irresponsible.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 20, 2018, 05:37:07 AM
Those articles are just scrapes from Wikipedia, rabinoz. Where does it say that Samuel Shenton discovered that the earth reflected the monopole model or conducted any Flat Earth research that reinstalled the monopole model?

Shenton was merely trying to spread the word that the earth is flat, which is nice of him, but there isn't much research from his society. Unless you can present evidence that Samuel Shenton provided evidence in favor of a monopole model, the idea that the work of the Universal Zetetic Society was invalidated is not justified in the least.

Quote
My claim that, both Samuel Rowbotham and Samuel Shenton "were provably so ignorant of geography and the most elementary astronomy" is clearly quite correct as otherwise they would never have constructed a cosmology and a layout for the earth that was wrong.

What have you proven wrong about it?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 20, 2018, 05:50:57 AM
Those articles are just scrapes from Wikipedia, rabinoz. Where does it say that Samuel Shenton discovered that the earth reflected the monopole model
No where, and if it did, it would be lying, just like if it said anyone discovered that Earth reflected a flat model.

Shenton was merely trying to spread the word that the earth is flat, which is nice of him
Not really.
People spreading nonsense isn't nice at all.

the idea that the work of the Universal Zetetic Society was invalidated is not justified in the least.
You are missing the point.
Your claim was that the monopole model was officially abandoned by the FES and not reinstated. That is clearly not the case.

What have you proven wrong about it?
He has shown that there was no official rejection of the monopolar model by the FES, and that the modern versions of the FES sure seem to portray themselves as accepting the monopole model.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 20, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Those articles are just scrapes from Wikipedia, rabinoz.
They are NOT just scraps from Wikipedia, Tom Bishop! They are all from your own society and links contained therein!
Quote from: TFES.org
Samuel Shenton
Samuel Shenton, a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and the Royal Geographic Society, founded the Flat Earth Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Society) in 1956, after renaming it from the Universal Zetetic Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Zetetic_Society). He led the Flat Earth Society from its founding in 1956 until his death in 1971, at which time leadership passed to Charles K. Johnson. Shenton collected material, gave lectures and generated publicity for the Society so that by his death in 1971 the Society had over 100 members.

External links
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Shenton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Shenton)
Source: The Flat Earth Society, Universal Zetetic Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Samuel_Shenton)
Quote from: TFES.org
Universal Zetetic Society
The Universal Zetetic Society (UZS) was the precursor to the Flat Earth Society. It was founded shortly after the death of Samuel Rowbotham (aka Parallax) by Rowbotham's adherents. The UZS was active well into the early part of the 20th century, publishing many issues of a magazine titled The Earth Not a Globe Review. In 1971, the UZS was renamed The Flat Earth Society when Samuel Shenton became its leader.

Source: The Flat Earth Society, Samuel Shenton (https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Zetetic_Society)
Just how many Flat Earth Societies are there?
Quote from: TFES.org
Flat Earth Society
In New York and England, Samuel Rowbotham created the Zetetic Society. Following his death, Lady Elizabeth Blount founded the Universal Zetetic Society. These societies were based on interpretations of the Bedford Level Experiment. These societies placed more emphasis on Biblical arguments for flat earth theory than the modern FES, but also provided scientific arguments as well.

In 1956 Samuel Shenton founded the International Flat Earth Society. The FES gained publicity in 1964 following the beginning of manned spaceflight and articles about Shenton in The New York Times.

Samuel Shenton died in 1971, and Charles K. Johnson created the International Flat Earth Society of America after inheriting part of Shenton's library and was able to raise membership to 3,000 people. Johnson dispersed newsletters, flyers, and other media to the public upon request.

However by 1980 the FES fell to 200 members. A house fire and the death of Johnson's wife further afflicted the FES in America. Johnson died on March 19, 2001, and the society no longer took in new members.

It has been revived in 2004 as an online community and the society was officially restarted in October 2009.

Source: The Flat Earth Society, Flat Earth Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Society)
Now this all started with  your statement:
Then again, all of this is moot. The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
i asked you to justify that claim and you have not yet done so.Now, you should be far more knowledgeable that I on this matter, so please just give a link justifying your claim.

I would love to have one "official flat earth model" with one "official continental layout" but there seem to be almost as many models and maps as flat-earthers.
On TFES.org alone there are seven, though only three distinct, Monopole Models and two Bi-polar Models. Nine of these are described as official.

Why won't you answer the original simple question?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 20, 2018, 06:17:20 AM
From that article you posted (which was scraped from Wikipedia) it says that Samuel Shenton "found a president in William Mills, a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers and held its inaugural meeting in November at Mills' home in London, with Shenton as secretary."

The connection to the old society was by finding a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers.

So this new Shenton model therefore invalidates everything Lady Blount did, reverses all research, all based on Samuel Shenton finding a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers, who gave the thumbs up to do that?

No. That's stupid. It was not a continuation of the same society at all.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Unconvinced on August 20, 2018, 06:46:35 AM
So Tom wrote the wiki?

Interesting...


“In the most popular Flat Earth Model, the outer edge of the Earth is bounded by an 'Ice Wall'. This wall prevents the oceans from spilling over the side of the Earth, and may perform the same function for the atmolayer. The exact size of the Ice Wall varies between different Flat Earth Models.

The traditional view is that the Ice Wall rises approximately 150 feet above sea level, preventing the ocean from spilling over the edge of the Earth. In this model, the atmolayer is either contained by another means or universal. This view of the Ice Wall is generally agreed to correspond to the coastline of Antarctica in the Round Earth Model.


https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ice+Wall (https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ice+Wall)
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: Lamaface on August 20, 2018, 08:41:53 AM
Makes me think ... if the ice wall prevents the ocean from spilling over the edge of the earth, then what is holding up the wall?
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: markjo on August 20, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
I always thought that ice floated on top of water.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: rabinoz on August 20, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
From that article you posted (which was scraped from Wikipedia) it says that Samuel Shenton "found a president in William Mills, a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers and held its inaugural meeting in November at Mills' home in London, with Shenton as secretary."
Please get the message! None of those are MY ARTICLES! They are articles either from YOUR society or from the link therein and hence tacitly approved by YOUR SOCIETY!

Quote from: Tom Bishop
The connection to the old society was by finding a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers.
OK
Quote from: Tom Bishop
So this new Shenton model therefore invalidates everything Lady Blount did, reverses all research, all based on Samuel Shenton finding a relative of one of Lady Blount's followers, who gave the thumbs up to do that?
That's not my problem, but read:
Quote from: Wikipedia, Samuel Shenton
Life
Samuel Shenton was a signwriter, who lived with his wife Lillian in a ginger-brick terrace in suburban Dover. He was son of an army sergeant major, born in Great Yarmouth, and by the 1920s claimed to have invented an airship that would rise into the atmosphere and remain stationary until the earth spun westwards at 1,000 km/h (620 mph) to the desired destination at the same latitude. Shenton could not understand why someone had not previously thought of this idea until he discovered, in the reading room of the British Library at Bloomsbury that Archbishop Stevens, a friend of Lady Blount, the founder of the Universal Zetetic Society, had suggested an aircraft design similar to his own. When he discovered Parallax's Zetetic Astronomy he was an instant convert. "What the authorities were concealing, Shenton decided, was the 'fact' that the earth was flat".

He discovered this theory in Elementary school, and had a reputation in his community as being an elementary school drop out.

Shenton soon constructed a cosmology, based partly on his interpretation of Genesis, that the earth was a flat disk centred on the North Pole with the zetetic notion of the South Pole being an impenetrable wall of ice, that marked the edge of the pit that is the earth in the endless flat plane forming the universe. The sun cast a narrow beam like a flashlight moving over a table as it traced flat circles that varied over the 365-day cycles. The sun was 32 miles (51 km) in diameter 3,000 miles (4,800 km) above the earth and the moon also 32 miles in diameter but only 2,550 miles (4,100 km) above the earth.
Samuel Shenton apparently got his original idea from Rowbotham and not from Lady Blount.
And based on that and "partly on his interpretation of Genesis" developed his cosmology.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
No. That's stupid. It was not a continuation of the same society at all.
Maybe it's stupid but read (again):
Quote from: TFES.org
Flat Earth Society
In New York and England, Samuel Rowbotham created the Zetetic Society. Following his death, Lady Elizabeth Blount founded the Universal Zetetic Society. These societies were based on interpretations of the Bedford Level Experiment. These societies placed more emphasis on Biblical arguments for flat earth theory than the modern FES, but also provided scientific arguments as well.

In 1956 Samuel Shenton founded the International Flat Earth Society. The FES gained publicity in 1964 following the beginning of manned spaceflight and articles about Shenton in The New York Times.

Samuel Shenton died in 1971, and Charles K. Johnson created the International Flat Earth Society of America after inheriting part of Shenton's library and was able to raise membership to 3,000 people. Johnson dispersed newsletters, flyers, and other media to the public upon request.

However, by 1980 the FES fell to 200 members. A house fire and the death of Johnson's wife further afflicted the FES in America. Johnson died on March 19, 2001, and the society no longer took in new members.

It has been revived in 2004 as an online community and the society was officially restarted in October 2009.

Source: The Flat Earth Society, Flat Earth Society (https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Society)
That clearly says "It has been revived in 2004 as an online community and the society was officially restarted in October 2009."
How else can I interpret "It has been revived in 2004[/b] . . . . and the society was officially restarted in October 2009."
Just how many Flat Earth Societies are there? And if the entry was referring to any other "Flat Earth Society" other than itself it would have said so.

Now I repeat!
All started with  your statement:
Then again, all of this is moot. The Flat Earth Society officially switched over to a Bi-polar model in the early 1900's after the discovery of the South Pole, and never officially switched back.The existence of the Monopole model has been purely a result of people reading some of the older literature before the discovery of the South Pole and not reading the later research.
I asked you to justify that claim and you have not yet done so.
  • There was no "Flat Earth Society" in the early 1900s to "officially switched over to a Bi-polar model".
  • I can find no evidence that "The Flat Earth Society" at either TFES.org or TheFlatEarthSociety.org have any one "official model" that includes an "official continental layout".
Now, you should be far more knowledgeable than I on this matter, so please just give a link justifying your claim.

I would love to have one "official flat earth model" with one "official continental layout" but there seem to be almost as many models and maps as flat-earthers.
On TFES.org alone there are seven, though only three distinct, Monopole Models and two Bi-polar Models. Nine of these are described as official.

Why won't you answer the original simple question?
But if you want a debate on that Bi-polar model, bring it on! In numerous ways, it is far more wrong than the provenly incorrect Ice-Wall model.
Title: Re: NASA filming in a "hollywood studio"?
Post by: JackBlack on August 20, 2018, 02:32:17 PM
So this new Shenton model therefore invalidates everything Lady Blount did, reverses all research
It's funny how you keep bringing up research, when actual research done indicates Earth is round.
What research did Lady Blount or your prophet Row Boat do to actually disprove Earth being round? NOTHING!
At most you get blatant lies by Row Boat to try and pretend Earth isn't moving based upon complete ignorance of physics or you get ignorance of refraction, with no rational objection to all the evidence showing Earth is round.


Regardless, all you are doing is showing there isn't really any official FES which can officially adopt or reject a model.
The simple fact is the majority of FEers (regardless of whether they are real FEers or not) are presenting the NP centred AEP rather than the equator centred AEP as their alleged model.

If you want to present a bi-polar model to be destroyed, do so. If you are just going to complain that people are attacking the more commonly presented one, then remain quiet.