The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Heavenly Breeze on June 24, 2018, 08:52:51 AM

Title: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 24, 2018, 08:52:51 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on June 24, 2018, 03:41:56 PM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
And sometimes telephone communications via satellites. But more importantly, mobile satellite phones, i.e. at places without landlines and cellular network reception (like uninhabited islands, high in the mountains, etc.).
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on June 24, 2018, 07:44:58 PM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
It doesn't!

Though internet services in most populated areas are via either cable or the wireless cellphone network.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 25, 2018, 08:51:36 PM
Quote
It doesn't!
And how then?
To deny that satellites exist very hard. If there were no satellites for the Internet, then you could say anything, but so ... What does the classical theory of flat land say about this?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on June 25, 2018, 09:48:14 PM
Quote
It doesn't!
And how then?
To deny that satellites exist very hard. If there were no satellites for the Internet, then you could say anything, but so ... What does the classical theory of flat land say about this?
The FAQ has this:
Quote
What About the ISS and Satellites?
While one can see satellites in the sky at night, it is generally agreed upon that they are not actual satellites but pseudolites or stratolites put there to fool us.
And they try to claim that GPS and satellite TV and phone services is all provided via ground stations, such as cell-phone towers, or "balloons".
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on June 26, 2018, 10:55:40 AM
The FAQ has this:
Quote
What About the ISS and Satellites?
While one can see satellites in the sky at night, it is generally agreed upon that they are not actual satellites but pseudolites or stratolites put there to fool us.
The ISS stratolite would need to fly in about 90 minutes one “circle” above the flat earth. This is about twice the equator size in 90 minutes; about 27’000 km/h. Constant course corrections would be required to maintain its equator centered sinus curve course relative to flat earth’s surface. Therefore, lots of fuel/energy consumption.

And they try to claim that GPS and satellite TV and phone services is all provided via ground stations, such as cell-phone towers, or "balloons".
Per TV satellite/balloon all dishes are aligned to the same point in space 36‘000 km above the earth. Currently, a satellite dish’s alignment must be accurate to less than 1 degree. With balloons at 50 km altitude in the stratolayer, this would require about 1 balloon every kilometer; therefore, several hundreds of thousand or even millions of ballons per country per TV “satellite”. If they are nearer than 50 km, more balloons are required.

But, this could be tested with a mobile satellite dish. In fact, there is no satellite/balloon reception, if the dish is not aligned. Therefore, the ballon density is much less than described above. But then, at a location further away - e.g. 100 km - the dish alignment must be different when using the same TV “satellite”. It mustn’t, therefore, the satellite/balloon is much further away.

Therefore, no satellite TV balloons.

Technically, geosynchronous satellites would not be a problem for an unaccelerated flat earth. Without gravity, you would only need to put them into space and there they are. But any other satellite or space station would be impossible, because it would need lots of fuel/energy to maintain its course relative to flat earth’s surface.

With UA, any satellite is impossible, because it would need lots of fuel/energy to keep its distance from earth.

Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 26, 2018, 11:16:27 AM
Sorry, I do not speak English. Because it is actually difficult for me to deal with such a huge number of topics and information in them. That is why I asked this question.
Due to the fact that satellites exist, I'm 100% sure. As well as the fact that there are satellite TV and the Internet.
Only here is how they fly? Do they tell us the whole truth? As well as about why in the space can not see the stars?
Having studied this question from different points of view. I began to understand how the presence of satellites over our flat land is explained. It turns out that this is not a problem at all. As many people think. And they do not need a lot of fuel.
Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung. Flying in a low orbit is only one single mock-up of the ISS. And this is a piece of ordinary iron without people.
You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics. And you know what Merkaba is. Read the ancient scriptures. That should understand what I'm talking about. And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on June 26, 2018, 01:45:53 PM
Yes, like I wrote, geostationary (sorry, I wrote geosynchronous above; that was wrong) satellites, which do not move relative to the flat earth surface, could just hang there.With the requirement, that UA is not true. And earth does not rotate.

But what about all the other satellites at other orbits, e.g. like LEO? Over a flat earth, they must change course permanently, which would be very fuel/energy inefficient and would reduce their lifetime dramatically; not years, but days.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 27, 2018, 05:11:22 AM
Sorry, I do not speak English. Because it is actually difficult for me to deal with such a huge number of topics and information in them. That is why I asked this question.
Due to the fact that satellites exist, I'm 100% sure. As well as the fact that there are satellite TV and the Internet.
Only here is how they fly? Do they tell us the whole truth? As well as about why in the space can not see the stars?
Having studied this question from different points of view. I began to understand how the presence of satellites over our flat land is explained. It turns out that this is not a problem at all. As many people think. And they do not need a lot of fuel.
Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung. Flying in a low orbit is only one single mock-up of the ISS. And this is a piece of ordinary iron without people.
You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics. And you know what Merkaba is. Read the ancient scriptures. That should understand what I'm talking about. And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.
Well, I'm glad you've got it all worked out.

Where's the stuff about quantum mechanics in the bible then?  Is it this verse:

Quote
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: THEREALDILL23 on June 27, 2018, 08:55:13 AM
I agree with Dirk for the most part, but I actually want to answer the question regarding satellites. Satellites are not what we are told. They do not exist the way they tell us they do. Satellite T.V, Satellite phones, and many other services such as GPS. Can work by using space wave technology. We can bounce waves off atmosphere above us to several types of land based instruments. I would also like to make note, that I have made a call through a satellite phone before. The service is quite laggy and patchy. So Lets debate this some more.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on June 27, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung.
That would only work for geostationary satellites.
All other satellites do not remain above the same point.
This includes satellites people rely upon quite often for GPS.

You also have no mechanism for how they hang.
Or how the signals are aligned for a FE rather than a round one. If Earth were flat the vast majority of dishes are pointing the wrong way.

You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics.
No I don't, as it doesn't.
All we have are attempts to pretend it does.

And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.
They orbit a round Earth. They are "falling" it is just that while they "fall", they move so far sideways, the curvature of Earth means they are still at the same altitude.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on June 27, 2018, 02:17:04 PM
Satellite T.V, Satellite phones, and many other services such as GPS. Can work by using space wave technology. We can bounce waves off atmosphere above us
Except space waves are those which do not get bounced by the atmosphere and thus allow transmission to space, so the exact opposite of what you need.

Even if this was viable, it would only provide for services where the satellites are meant to be keeping a fixed position.
For GPS, they are not, and satellites come into and out of view. GPS cannot be faked by your magic non-space waves.
And the angles still don't add up.

The service is quite laggy and patchy. So Lets debate this some more.
Yes, the service typically will be quite laggy. This is due to how the packets have to travel.
As for being patchy, one downfall of satellite technology is that they need to penetrate the atmosphere and any obstructions. This makes it difficult to use inside, and the signal is typically much weaker (due to the greater distance), which is why good ones have large transceivers.
Do you think them being laggy and patchy is an issue for a RE?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 28, 2018, 11:36:12 PM
Stop stop. Let's sort it out in order. I specifically wanted to hear the views of both sides.

Are you all sure how our world works? Who among you knows that in the gardens, without singing birds, the trees cease to bear fruit?

I'm really sorry for those, who believe in flat land, but for the sake of blind faith denies the obvious facts.

And now I will ask those who believe in the ball - are you ready to answer before God for misleading others?

All that we see around can equally be explained as the fact that we live both on the plane and on the ball. There are no differences in the phenomena that we see. But phenomena are not laws of physics.

All those who believe in the ball do not want to admit that some laws of physics simply will not work for the ball.

And now I will make happy those who believe in flat land. But please apologize for my English
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 28, 2018, 11:43:45 PM
I affirm that according to the laws of physics that operate on our flat land, satellites fly without problems over us.

And I will say more. Just satellites and can not fly around the ball! Since this contradicts what we know from physics.

It is not paradoxical - everyone who believes in flat land refutes the presence of satellites. Although this is the strongest argument that the earth is not a ball. A is a plane.

I see this all the time. People are ready to argue endlessly about what they even have no idea about. Instead of studying this question from the nutria.

Sorry, I'm breaking the message into parts - it's hard for me to write in English.




Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 28, 2018, 11:55:07 PM
Commercial development of the GPS direction - gives absolute positioning with the greatest accuracy up to tens of centimeters.
With this accuracy, the course of the atomic clock must be so stable that the theory (special theory of relativity) and (general theory of relativity) do not work.
In this case, only works (Lorentz ether theory).
The rest of the work of the GPS decided experimentally.
Therefore algorithms for GPS use in their calculations the earth only as flat and motionless.
When using ground rotation, GPS does not work as a positional one.
In other words, one of the factors is that their work on precise positioning is impossible over a moving ball.

Learn the originals of the works of Ronald Ray Hatch and his biography. And you yourself will understand why satellites fly only over flat land.

I think for those who believe in a flat land these arguments about satellites will be enough. To believe that satellites exist above us.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 12:03:17 AM
And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God, because I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.
Moreover, we are deceived both with the form of the earth and with the trajectory of the satellites. They do fly, but not as they tell us. And still you will not believe in it and will again assert that our earth is a ball.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 12:57:21 AM
You also have no mechanism for how they hang.

I have an explanation of how they hang
As well as they fly at an altitude above 200 kilometers.

The International Space Station is just a model flying above our head. People are not there. As I said before, this is the only pridmet that flies in such a low orbit and soon it will fall.


The angle of lifting all the antennas we have in Ukraine does not meet the ball, and corresponds to the fact that the satellites are above the flat ground. They have an angle of direction higher than it is necessary according to official sources.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on June 29, 2018, 01:16:46 AM
And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God, because I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.
And just what gives you the divine authority to make a judgement like that?
Are you claiming that all those involved in the Creation Ministries International site "you do not believe that our world was created by God".
Quote
Creation Ministries International (CMI) exists to support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history.
Creation Ministries International (CMI) (https://creation.com)
The whole purpose of that site is to defend the "young earth creation". You have completely ignored this:
Maybe you could read more of what others think: The Creation.com (http://Creation.com) site is dedicated to "young earth creationism" but has a lot of anti-flat earth material, mainly on historical evidence, see
         The flat earth myth. (http://creation.com/flat-earth-myth)
         Creation Ministries, The flat-earth myth and creationism          (http://creation.com/the-flat-earth-myth-and-creationism)
         A flat earth, and other nonsense, Dealing with ideas that would not exist were it not for the Internet (http://creation.com/refuting-flat-earth)
and
         Flat Earth Myth - More Bogus History, Creating  Bogus  History, What is the Myth About the Flat Earth ? (http://www.defendingthebride.com/code/flat.html)

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
Moreover, we are deceived both with the form of the earth and with the trajectory of the satellites. They do fly, but not as they tell us. And still you will not believe in it and will again assert that our earth is a ball.
Yes, I will "will again assert that our earth is a" Globe as have people far more knowledgeable than I at what the Scriptures teach.

Very committed Christians like the Venerable Bede, John Calvin and Martin Luther certainly believed the earth to be a Globe.
Quote from: The Venerable Bede
We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth’s circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe. … For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides.
<< from:  The flat earth myth. (http://creation.com/flat-earth-myth) >>
And look at the introduction to John Calvin's Commentary on Genesis - Volume 1.
Quote from: John Calvin
Page 25,26:
We indeed are not ignorant, that the circuit of the heavens is finite, and that the earth, like a little globe, is placed in the center.

Page 55:
In the meantime, however, the benediction of God so prevails that the earth everywhere lies open that it may have its inhabitants, and that an immense multitude of men may find, in some part of the globe, their home.

Page 73:
From this difficulty, some would free themselves by saying, that the surface of the globe may have been changed by the deluge;

All from: Commentary on Genesis - Volume 1, Author: Calvin, John (1509-1564) (https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom01.pdf)
It would appear that John Calvin certainly believed the earth to be a Globe, as did most people of his day.
And in LUTHER ON THE CREATION, A CRITICAL AND DEVOTIONAL COMMENTARY ON GENESIS (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48193/48193-h/48193-h.htm), Martin Luther leaves no doubt the he believed and taught the Ptolemaic System with its spherical earth.

I guess you think that your interpretation of the Scriptures is better than that of the Venerable Bede, Martin Luther and John Calvin. I claim no such expertise.

And you might read:
Quote from: Creation 16, no 2 (March 1994): 48-49
Who Invented the Flat Earth?

Evolutionists often falsely accuse creationists of believing in a flat Earth. But neither history nor modern scholarship supports the claim that Christians ever widely believed that the Earth was flat. And the Bible doesn’t teach it.
<< Read the rest in: Answers in Genesis, Who Invented the Flat Earth? (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/who-invented-the-flat-earth/) >>
About the author: Adapted by Ian Taylor for Creation Science Association of Ontario, Feature No. 30, from the book Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus & Modern Historians (ISBN 027595904X), by history professor Jeffrey Burton Russell. Summarized by Paula McKerlie. Further modified March 2004.

So, you are at liberty to believe and depart what you like.

You are, however, being unScriptural to claim that you have a divine right to set yourself up to judge others in this way.
Matthew 7:1-6
Bye bye. There is no point in saying more!

Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 01:17:10 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but that's what's on on the roofs.

(http://j-p-g.net/if/2018/06/29/0485915001530260150.png)

This is a direct focus antenna.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 01:26:18 AM
 rabinoz - Do you understand that I can not use the extensive materials in English?
I communicate with difficulty, not speaking to study theology in English ...
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 01:37:16 AM
Why all translate into a different plane? We generally discuss satellites.
Anyway.
I was glad to talk with you - rabinoz, you brought quite strong arguments which made me look at everything differently and look for more complete proof that the earth is not a ball. Which did not come to my mind earlier.

And I am ready to answer for my words before God.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 29, 2018, 02:08:53 AM
Sorry, I see that not everyone likes my theories. The existence of satellites is the strongest argument for or against the existence of flat land. He can either break the whole theory, or just the opposite, to affirm it as unshakable. And there is no sense in all the other evidence then - until this dispute is resolved. It's silly to say that there are no satellites, but it's also foolish to say that we know everything about them, since the information is classified and secret..
It is very difficult for me to communicate here because of ignorance of the language, I have my own vision of how everything is arranged. The main information I published to someone interested in more details on how to fly satellites over flat land without violating the laws of physics and as they say about quantum mechanics in the Bible I can tell already with personal communication.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on June 29, 2018, 04:22:57 AM
rabinoz - Do you understand that I can not use the extensive materials in English?
I communicate with difficulty, not speaking to study theology in English ...
I'm sorry but there's little that I can do to help there.
But remember that John Calvin was French, though he fled to Strasburg to escape the Roman Church and
Martin Luther was regarded as not only as the "Father of the Reformation" but the "Father of the German Language".
And the time much communication was done in Latin.
So I'm sure this and all similar material is available in many languages. Sometimes Google translate can help, but it's far from infallible.

I don't know how to put this but, I am quite convinced that one's belief in the shape of the earth and many related issues is quite irrelevant to one's salvation. The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then) had considerable discussion on this matter and the consensus was that they accepted that the earth was a Globe, hence the writings of the Venerable Bede, a n English Monk and astronomer were classed as important.
The "shape of the earth" was never treated as "an article of faith", though the earth's being stationary at the centre of the Universe was. So we have
Quote from: The Venerable Bede
For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe;

I know of many relevant references to this sort of thing, but only in English, I'm afraid. Maybe there others in your country that you can discuss this with.
But I do not accept that Scripture was ever intended to be a Science or Cosmological textbook and was written in a way that the Children of Israel could understand.

I've said more than enough. I think you need someone local to discuss things with.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on June 29, 2018, 05:29:22 AM
Are you all sure how our world works?
We don't need to know every single detail to know if Earth is round, or various other things.

Who among you knows that in the gardens, without singing birds, the trees cease to bear fruit?
No one.
That is because trees can continue to bear fruit without singing birds.

And now I will ask those who believe in the ball - are you ready to answer before God for misleading others?
Your god would have to answer to me for why it allows such evil to occur.
Why does this god apparently not give a damn, happily allowing people to con others for their own gain?

I am not misleading anyone.

All that we see around can equally be explained as the fact that we live both on the plane and on the ball.
Only if you manipulate the plane to act like a ball.

All those who believe in the ball do not want to admit that some laws of physics simply will not work for the ball.
Such as?
I'm yet to find any. The only thing which comes close is the behaviour of gravity/dark matter at large scales, but that has no bearing on if Earth is round or not.

Just satellites and can not fly around the ball! Since this contradicts what we know from physics.
Satellites orbit around Earth (a round Earth) under the known laws of physics. They do not contradict physics for a RE at all.

Although this is the strongest argument that the earth is not a ball.
Except I am yet to find an explanation for how they work for a FE, the pictures from many of them clearly show Earth is round, and the angles don't match for a FE.

With this accuracy, the course of the atomic clock must be so stable that the theory (special theory of relativity) and (general theory of relativity) do not work.
You are confusing stable for the satellite with stable for the universe. There stability doesn't mean relativity is wrong.
All I have found on them indicate that they include a correction for relativity, so it would show it does work.

The rest of the work of the GPS decided experimentally.
Therefore algorithms for GPS use in their calculations the earth only as flat and motionless.
No, it is based upon the satellites position when they send the signal and how long the signal takes to reach the receiver.
It isn't something that can be done experimentally as you would need to redo it for each location.

When using ground rotation, GPS does not work as a positional one.
No, it works just fine, as the satellite positions used in the calculation are relative to Earth.

And you yourself will understand why satellites fly only over flat land.
Or you could explain how, rather than having us try to look through everything for it.

And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God
Plenty of people accept Earth is round and still believe in a god.

I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.
Then don't suggest they work for a FE.

I have an explanation of how they hang
As well as they fly at an altitude above 200 kilometers.
Then provide it.

The angle of lifting all the antennas we have in Ukraine does not meet the ball, and corresponds to the fact that the satellites are above the flat ground. They have an angle of direction higher than it is necessary according to official sources.
Do you have any evidence for that?
So far all I have seen myself are at the correct angle.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's what's on on the roofs.
It could be a satellite dish, but you can't tell what way it is pointing from that photo.
When I first saw it it appeared to be facing away from the camera, but upon closer inspection with google maps, it is clearly pointing south, not north.
All I can tell you is that it is pointing up quite high.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 30, 2018, 08:06:09 AM
I'm not referring to the direction. That's it that all the antennas are very high raised. This can be clearly seen from this pryamofokusnoy antennas.
Likely that the last I will tell. It `s that. That satellites fly in the proportion of magnetic lines. We have a more complex world structure. It is described in detail in the scriptures.
Satellites just fly by the principle described in them.
And the earth's core can not generate a magnetic field - since heated above 800 degrees - read the physics. We have external magnetic fields. The earth is inside them.
I thank everyone who participated in the discussion.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on June 30, 2018, 08:49:19 AM
(http://picua.org/img/2018-06/30/1xrlx89m8a138o1iqso5ek9f6.jpg)

I photographed it myself.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on June 30, 2018, 10:10:16 AM
(http://picua.org/img/2018-06/30/1xrlx89m8a138o1iqso5ek9f6.jpg)

I photographed it myself.
I was just analyzing the area myself via Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5080713,32.2610943,3a,15y,52.97h,102.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scdqCVeRxKo9KmAOpcr7-Fg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5080713,32.2610943,3a,15y,52.97h,102.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scdqCVeRxKo9KmAOpcr7-Fg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

The satellite dish you are referring (the one on the left of your photo) is mounted upside down and pointing to a western direction for central europe instead of ukrainian satellite TV. The high angle is, because the antenna receiver arm is on the top, intead of on the bottom.

As you can see in your photo, there are satellite dishes on the right side of the roof pointing in a southern direction at a lower angle. See also (same area):
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5089242,32.2598213,3a,44.7y,322.69h,95.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syZLrUlKSBj62TsBDom3FPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5089242,32.2598213,3a,44.7y,322.69h,95.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syZLrUlKSBj62TsBDom3FPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Therefore, it is not true, that all satellite dishes are pointing up high. Maybe only the ones pointing in a western direction and/or being mounted upside down.


Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on June 30, 2018, 12:23:12 PM
The inverted satellite dish mount is used when the satellite is lower in the sky. This is the case at locations far in the north (or south) - which is not the case with Ukraine - or when pointing the dish far to the east or west to access other country's satellite TV.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on June 30, 2018, 02:47:59 PM
I'm not referring to the direction. That's it that all the antennas are very high raised.
I was using the direction as an example of it being hard to tell where it is pointed.
It isn't clear what angle they are pointing at.

But just how high do you think they should be pointing?
Ukraine is not that far north, it is only at roughly 48.5 degrees.
That means for a geostationary satellite due south, it should be pointing at roughly 41 degrees.

The dish you are pointing out does not appear to be pointing above that.

So no, it can't clearly be seen.

That satellites fly in the proportion of magnetic lines.
How?
To have magnetic levitation you need either superconductors and very strong magnets, or quickly varying magnetic fields.
Earth's magnetic field is neither, so that doesn't work.

We have a more complex world structure. It is described in detail in the scriptures.
You mean a lot is baselessly asserted in scripture.

Satellites just fly by the principle described in them.
There are no principles describing how satellites work in any scripture I know of.
Stop with the baseless assertions.

And the earth's core can not generate a magnetic field - since heated above 800 degrees - read the physics.
Good advice, read up on physics.
You are thinking of a simple magnet, and how when heated it can lose its magnetism.
For Iron, which the core is made of, that would be ~1000 K or 770 C.
Earth's core is a lot hotter.

But that isn't how Earth's magnetic field works.
Instead it is produced as a dynamo. A spinning ball of molten metal.
The Curie temperature doesn't apply there.


We have external magnetic fields. The earth is inside them.
Except mapping of Earth's magnetic field clearly shows that it is from inside Earth.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Riflington on July 01, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Don’t get technical. Just ask them why. Why does this conspiracy exist. To what aim. Who benefits. How do they benefit? What stops people blowing the whistle. How has the lie been maintained in the space age. Why are they lying?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 01, 2018, 08:28:16 PM
*** Instead it is produced as a dynamo...

Gentlemen, are you serious?

Well, you made me laugh -what law does this work for physics?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 01, 2018, 09:08:08 PM
*** Instead it is produced as a dynamo...
Gentlemen, are you serious?
Well, you made me laugh -what law does this work for physics?
A spinning ball of molten metal produces magnetic fields.
It is known as dynamo theory.
Technically it requires a fluid which is capable of conducting electricity and which has convective currents, which is rotating.
People have replicated the results in lab conditions with other molten metals, which even results in magnetic field reversal.

Are you serious?

Your argument against Earth's magnetic field is a complete strawman, ignoring the actual origins of the magnetic field.
If you want to claim Earth's core can't produce a magnetic field, argue against the correct theory, not your pathetic strawman.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 01, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
*** Instead it is produced as a dynamo...

Gentlemen, are you serious?

Well, you made me laugh -what law does this work for physics?
So, because you cannot understand the Dynamo theory, you ridicule it and refuse to believe it? Sound a normal flat earth " ;D proof ;D".
Have a look at Dynamo theory (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamo_theory).
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 02, 2018, 10:25:05 AM
In conclusion, I will say one thing.
I am not against satellites, I am opposed to where they fly.
The antennas are slightly higher than this according to what they tell us.
only up to 7 degrees higher - it's almost imperceptible
And that direct-focus is the Internet.
You can see for yourself ...
This antenna also receives satellites.
http://picua.org/img/2018-07/02/lfil4w1c2in8jmt0ze46irzq8.jpg

http://picua.org/img/2018-07/02/uehulwpcxeuz64irviof5he0f.jpg
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on July 02, 2018, 10:48:01 AM
I don't know where you live, but if there are any significant hills or mountains where you are with homes on them, go and look at their satellite dishes. There may be some goofy upside-down ones or broken ones (mine isn't hooked up for example, but I think it's probably still aligned). In general, most of them will point the same way. Just project out from where they point and see where it is. I suggest you start at the top of a hill because from up there, it's clear to see if they are pointing at a radio tower or not.

I have done this, and I've found that in my area, they all point southward, and all at around the same angle up into the sky. Not straight up, but up high enough that there is no ground-based object they could be pointing to. I have also noticed that they do not all point to the same angle southward. It's as if they are pointing to different satellites or something.

Keep in mind, virtually all satellite dishes these days are what is called "offset dishes". Here's a site to explain that... you'll want to know this before you try to work out where you think they point:
http://www.satsig.net/22-deg-offset-dish.htm
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 02, 2018, 02:51:05 PM
The antennas are slightly higher than this according to what they tell us.
only up to 7 degrees higher - it's almost imperceptible
Are you sure it is actually there? Or are you just seeing what you want to?
So far all we have are bad pictures of dishes where you can't tell.

This antenna also receives satellites.
And it is quite difficult to see where it is pointing as it is clearly an offset dish antenna.
You can tell this as if it wasn't, it would be pointing straight into the roof, making it a useless dish.

So what angle is it actually set to, and what do you think it should be?

I also notice you have given up on your claim about magnetic fields.
Does this mean you accept Earth's core can produce a magnetic field?

Now how about that explanation of how satellites magically fly over the FE without any significant propulsion or lift generating mechanisms?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 02, 2018, 02:55:20 PM
In conclusion, I will say one thing.
I am not against satellites, I am opposed to where they fly.
The antennas are slightly higher than this according to what they tell us.
only up to 7 degrees higher - it's almost imperceptible
And that direct-focus is the Internet.
You can see for yourself ...
This antenna also receives satellites.
(http://picua.org/img/2018-07/02/lfil4w1c2in8jmt0ze46irzq8.jpg)
I can't see from the photo, but that could be an offset feed antenna aimed at quite an appreciable angle.

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
(http://picua.org/img/2018-07/02/uehulwpcxeuz64irviof5he0f.jpg)
That is definitely an offset feed antenna.

See:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Offset dish antenna
An offset dish antenna or off-axis dish antenna is a type of parabolic antenna. It is so called because the antenna feed is offset to the side of the reflector, in contrast to the common "front-feed" parabolic antenna where the feed antenna is suspended in front of the dish, on its axis. As in a front-fed parabolic dish, the feed is located at the focal point of the reflector, but the reflector is an asymmetric segment of a paraboloid, so the focus is located to the side.

The purpose of this design is to move the feed antenna and its supports out of the path of the incoming radio waves. In an ordinary front-fed dish antenna, the feed structure and its supports are located in the path of the incoming beam of radio waves, partially obstructing them, casting a "shadow" on the dish, reducing the radio power received. In technical terms this reduces the aperture efficiency of the antenna, reducing its gain. In the offset design, the feed is positioned outside the area of the beam, usually below it on a boom sticking out from the bottom edge of the dish. The beam axis of the antenna, the axis of the incoming or outgoing radio waves, is skewed at an angle to the plane of the dish mouth.

The design is most widely used for small parabolic antennas or "mini-dishes", such as common Ku band home satellite television dishes, where the feed structure is large enough in relation to the dish to block a significant proportion of the signal.
From: Wikipedia, Offset dish antenna (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offset_dish_antenna)
So an offset feed antenna with a vertical dish might be aimed 30° above the horizon, as in:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9k7hagf6ypvf7s/30%C2%B0%20offset%20feed%20microwave%20dish.png?dl=1)

        (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Parabolic_antenna_types2.svg)
So those dishes that seem to be pointing almost horizontally are aiming up at a considerable angle.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 04, 2018, 09:58:09 AM
Tell me a curious pony. It is important for you that the antennas can be raised slightly higher for a given area. Than it follows? After all, they are directed to satellites. I understand the mathematics of what they tell us. And calculations where they should be - in theory. But I want to understand what exactly this means to you. At us nobody adjusts antennas under instructions. Everything is done by eye. And I did not refuse the fact that the core does not give a magnet. Here is another antenna for receiving the C range. I live in Ukraine.

http://picua.org/img/2018-07/04/ojl6po9te8euvd7380c17jyd1.jpg

For me there is not much difference even the direction of the antennas. I wanted to hear it from you.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 04, 2018, 02:39:02 PM
nobody adjusts antennas under instructions. Everything is done by eye.
You can't see the satellites so it is not done by eye.
They would be aimed using the math to figure out where to point it and then fine tuned with a signal strength meter of some sort.

And I did not refuse the fact that the core does not give a magnet.
That's the problem, it isn't a fact. You made a pathetic strawman against the core producing a magnetic field, all because you don't understand how the magnetic field is generated.
When that was pointed out you ridiculed it, then didn't say anything else about it.

So are you going to admit you were wrong, or are you going to actually defend your claims?


Here is another antenna for receiving the C range. I live in Ukraine.
Which still shows no indication of being too high.
For me there is not much difference even the direction of the antennas.
Yet they are quite clearly pointing in vastly different directions.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 04, 2018, 07:26:38 PM
Here is another antenna for receiving the C range. I live in Ukraine.

http://picua.org/img/2018-07/04/ojl6po9te8euvd7380c17jyd1.jpg

For me there is not much difference even the direction of the antennas. I wanted to hear it from you.
The most likely TV satellite serving the Ukraine seems to be the Astra 4A (Sirius) at 4.8°E. So the position of that satellite is 4.8°E 0°N (over the Equator).
The site Satellite Look Angle Calculator (https://www.satellite-calculations.com/Satellite/lookangles.htm) will give the elevation angle and direction to point the dish. It includes the "offset angle" for dishes with an offset feed.
Or the site Satsig, Satellite TV Dish Pointing UK Ireland (http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-uk-ireland.htm) seems to work for Kiev.

So for Kiev at 50.4°N, 30.5°E a dish without offset feed would need to point up at an angle of 27.3° to the horizontal and at bearing of 212° (32° west of south).
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyd92xk3kpw9w2v/Satellite%20Dishes%20Ukraine%20-%20cropped.jpg?dl=1)
Satellite Dishes Ukraine - cropped
In your photo, above, the right dish is a centre-feed dish and appears to be pointing up at about 30°.
That is a more than my 27.3° for the Astra 4A (Sirius) satellite at 4.8°E from Kiev but I don't know where the photo was taken or which of about 3 satellites it might be aimed at.

The dish on the left has an offset feed and is possibly aimed a little higher at a satellite further west. There are dozens of satellites covering central and eastern Asia.

There's not much more that I can offer.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dirk on July 05, 2018, 09:30:42 AM
The photo is taken in Kirovohrad at 48.5090791° north and 32.2594283° east.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 05, 2018, 10:14:06 AM
rabinoz- and I say the same, the difference is only a few degrees. But a few degrees back or forth do not play a big role. The satellite is flying in the height belt. So these few degrees are completely permissible error. But the most surprising thing is that if you count all relatively flat land. That will leave the same height for the satellites.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 05, 2018, 10:37:07 AM
I can disappoint you. all antennas are tuned to the sun and the compass. And further on the signal. If the sun and the compass are precise instruments. I will not say anything. nobody tunes in another way. Which devices can still use for tuning?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 05, 2018, 10:40:38 AM
Here's how to set up. who - as they want.
http://picua.org/img/2018-07/05/6uvy03k94ahxqn94k4saxu8kp.jpg
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 05, 2018, 11:26:22 AM
I can disappoint you. all antennas are tuned to the sun and the compass. And further on the signal. If the sun and the compass are precise instruments. I will not say anything. nobody tunes in another way. Which devices can still use for tuning?
I'm guessing this hasn't translated very well.   Or maybe it was bollocks anyway.

The Sun and Compass sounds like a pub.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 05, 2018, 12:03:46 PM
Um ... it translated from Russian. Maybe I do not know everything about such a translation. There simply words - "the compass and the sun"
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 05, 2018, 02:11:30 PM
rabinoz- and I say the same, the difference is only a few degrees.
But it will depend upon what satellite it is pointing at.

But a few degrees back or forth do not play a big role.
No, it can make a very big difference.


But the most surprising thing is that if you count all relatively flat land. That will leave the same height for the satellites.
No, it results in vastly different heights.


I can disappoint you. all antennas are tuned to the sun and the compass. And further on the signal.
A compass, if accurate enough and adjusted for magnetic declination can be appropriate.
But you wouldn't use the sun.
You want something to determine elevation. That would best be done using a level and appropriate tool.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 05, 2018, 03:50:35 PM
rabinoz- and I say the same, the difference is only a few degrees. But a few degrees back or forth do not play a big role. The satellite is flying in the height belt. So these few degrees are completely permissible error. But the most surprising thing is that if you count all relatively flat land. That will leave the same height for the satellites.
No, the given directions do not work over flat land - they point to all different locations up in the sky "somewhere".

Satellite dishes are aligned roughly using a compass (or the sun at a particular time of day) to get direction (azimuth) and an adjustable level (or similar instrument) to get the elevation (sometimes called altitude).

Then the exact direction has to be adjusted using a meter (satellite finder) or sometimes just the TV set.
A dish 0.9 m in diameter at 12 Ghz loses half the power (-3 dB) when about 1° off perfect alignment from SatSig, Antenna beamwidth calculator (http://www.satsig.net/pointing/antenna-beamwidth-calculator.htm).

There are many instructions on-line for this, though as one site says:
Quote from: Fred Decker
How to Align a Satellite Dish Without a Meter
There's a lot to be said for sitting back and relaxing while a professional installs your satellite dish for you. Unfortunately, the novelty wears off after you've paid for it a few times. Learning to align your own satellite dish can save you hundreds of dollars over the years, and isn't especially difficult. You'll need to orient your dish for the correct up-and-down angle, or elevation, and its left-to-right angle, or azimuth. Getting great signal is easiest with a commercial meter, but all you really need is your receiver, a television and a helper.

How to Align a Satellite Dish Without a Meter (https://itstillworks.com/align-satellite-dish-meter-1777.html)
If I had to do it often, as when using satellite TV in a caravan or motorhome, I'd certainly invest in a meter.

This is the site most often used in Australia: SatSig, Satellite dish pointing angle calculator for Australia and New Zealand. (http://www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-australia-new-zealand.htm)
The directions given all point to a satellite in geostationary orbit above the equator at the appropriate longitude (4.8° E for the one your dish seemed to point to)
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 07, 2018, 06:40:51 AM
I sighed. Well. So you understand the mechanism, how satellites fly over flat land. Read Tesla and Enoch and present Merkaba figures. Quod est inferius est sicut id quod est superius.
Allow me to bow out.
*Ваш Небесный Ветерок*
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 07, 2018, 02:51:04 PM
So you understand the mechanism, how satellites fly over flat land.
No we don't.
You asserted it works fine but have failed to provide any mechanism.

We understand how they work orbiting a round Earth.
We understand how satellite dishes point to various locations for the RE.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 07, 2018, 11:31:16 PM
http://j-p-g.net/if/2018/07/08/0733877001531031377.png
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 07, 2018, 11:49:50 PM
Jack Black - no comment.

http://j-p-g.net/if/2018/07/08/0934086001531032394.png

http://j-p-g.net/if/2018/07/08/0987595001531032394.png
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2018, 12:06:54 AM
http://j-p-g.net/if/2018/07/08/0147287001531033579.png
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on July 08, 2018, 12:11:02 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 08, 2018, 02:05:55 AM
Jack Black - no comment.
What are these pictures meant to be of?
They don't seem to be getting you any closer to showing a problem with RE or explaining how satellites fly over a FE.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2018, 08:18:57 PM
**Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy?**
Respected - John Davis - How long I've been waiting for this question.

You are on the right path of understanding. Our land is flat but at the same time there is cosmos. therefore both the theory of the earth ball, and the theory of the earth-the plane-are not true. I do not speak English. To correctly tell me everything. I need time.
I will prepare the material for some time and provide it.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2018, 08:32:48 PM
This is my assumption on the basis of real facts. No one can deny that the earth is flatness, or that satellites are flying above us. So they fly over flat land. How - this is another question. I'll try to explain how this is possible. Since both classical theories do not explain this.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 08, 2018, 08:49:51 PM
I'm not surprised - that all who believe that the earth is flat - are afraid to participate in the discussion. This is their weak point. And those who believe in the earth - the ball, are defended. Realizing that this can change their world.
But I'll try to show a common point of understanding.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 08, 2018, 09:34:35 PM
The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then)

WROOOONG!

Sorry for going after you again, but I can't stand it when somebody is wrong on the Flat Earth Forum.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 08, 2018, 09:49:49 PM
No one can deny that the earth is flatness
Yes they can, quite easily.
All the evidence indicates Earth is round or is unable to distinguish the shape.

You are not using facts, you are using baseless assertions and circular reasoning.
Satellites present a significant problem for a FE. Rather than try to address this problem, you dismiss it as a non-problem by simply asserting Earth is flat.

I'll try to explain how this is possible. Since both classical theories do not explain this.
We have been waiting on your explanation for quite some time.
So far we have clear, simple answers from RE models which explain how satellites work just fine, meanwhile we have either claims they work or claims they are fake from the FE camp, without any explantion.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: THEREALDILL23 on July 09, 2018, 12:03:39 PM
Satellite T.V, Satellite phones, and many other services such as GPS. Can work by using space wave technology. We can bounce waves off atmosphere above us
Except space waves are those which do not get bounced by the atmosphere and thus allow transmission to space, so the exact opposite of what you need.

Even if this was viable, it would only provide for services where the satellites are meant to be keeping a fixed position.
For GPS, they are not, and satellites come into and out of view. GPS cannot be faked by your magic non-space waves.
And the angles still don't add up.

The service is quite laggy and patchy. So Lets debate this some more.
Yes, the service typically will be quite laggy. This is due to how the packets have to travel.
As for being patchy, one downfall of satellite technology is that they need to penetrate the atmosphere and any obstructions. This makes it difficult to use inside, and the signal is typically much weaker (due to the greater distance), which is why good ones have large transceivers.
Do you think them being laggy and patchy is an issue for a RE?

My argument for you would be, why wouldn't it be better on a round earth? Satellites are supposedly affixed in our gravitational orbit, (meaning they move roughly 1000 a miles an hour)?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 09, 2018, 12:05:11 PM
The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then)

WROOOONG!

Sorry for going after you again, but I can't stand it when somebody is wrong on the Flat Earth Forum.
BHS will be along soon to give us his detailed history of early Christianity that he got from a half remembered blurb on a Dan Brown book cover.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 09, 2018, 02:44:01 PM
My argument for you would be, why wouldn't it be better on a round earth?
On our round Earth it will vary depending upon which satellite system you use.
Are you using one in a geostationary orbit, meaning the signal needs to travel up at least 35000 km and then back down, but typically even further, or are you using a LEO one which means the satellites are moving relative to Earth?

Regardless of which one you do, is the day perfectly clear, or are there clouds, or trees or roofs above you?

What makes you think it is a problem for a RE?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 09, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then)

WROOOONG!

Sorry for going after you again, but I can't stand it when somebody is wrong on the Flat Earth Forum.
Sorry about that, but to have gone into great detail of the first few centuries would have made things too long and I don't that they were too bothered about the shape of the earth very much during that period.

I guess I should have mentioned the Eastern Orthodox (in what is now Greece and Turkey) and Coptic groups (largely in Egypt) at least and in the first few centuries AD even calling it the "Roman Church" is a bit of a misnomer.

Do you have a concise history of that period anywhere.

Bye
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 09, 2018, 08:58:04 PM
The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then)

WROOOONG!

Sorry for going after you again, but I can't stand it when somebody is wrong on the Flat Earth Forum.
Sorry about that, but to have gone into great detail of the first few centuries would have made things too long and I don't that they were too bothered about the shape of the earth very much during that period.

I guess I should have mentioned the Eastern Orthodox (in what is now Greece and Turkey) and Coptic groups (largely in Egypt) at least and in the first few centuries AD even calling it the "Roman Church" is a bit of a misnomer.

Do you have a concise history of that period anywhere.

Bye

At the time of your old friend Beda Venerabilis the Roman and the Greek church were still one church and the patriarchs of Rome and Constantinople were equal in authority. But the two non-Chalzedonian churches were both already separated from them and very widespread, the Monophysites in Egypt, Nubia, Ethiopia, Syria, Armenia and India, the Nestorians in Mesopotamia, Persia, Central Asia and even China.

Actually you could call it "Roman church", but not in the modern sense, because the inhabitants of the Eastern empire called themselves "Romans" (Romaioi), too, not "Greeks" (Hellenoi). Hellenoi in those times would have been a word for pagans. Only after the Turkish conquest they started to call themselves Hellenoi again, at least the literate ones.

Quote
I don't that they were too bothered about the shape of the earth very much during that period.

The Syrian theologians were remarkably hostile against the globe theory, though in Beda's time they may have excepted it.

EDIT: The Greeks started to use the word "hellenoi" again as early as the 11th century, not after the Turkish invasion as I thought.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 09, 2018, 09:36:11 PM

The Syrian theologians were remarkably hostile against the globe theory, though in Beda's time they may have excepted it.

I imagine the Syrian theologians had a Jewish background and might have "inherited" the Hebrew cosmology.
Those in Rome and Greece would have been influenced by the Greek (Ptolemaic) cosmology though, of course there was much Jewish influence there too.
And Paul was Saul of Tarsus. I haven't the slightest idea of his ideas on the issue, but Tarsus is in present day Turkey, so he probably had a background in Greek ideas.
During the first few centuries there was much debate on the flat/Globe issue.

It must have been very difficult back there because there is not that much evidence available to people that had seen little of the world.
Though those old astronomers from Ptolemy back would had been certain of the shape of the earth.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 09, 2018, 09:49:13 PM

The Syrian theologians were remarkably hostile against the globe theory, though in Beda's time they may have excepted it.

I imagine the Syrian theologians had a Jewish background and might have "inherited" the Hebrew cosmology.
Those in Rome and Greece would have been influenced by the Greek (Ptolemaic) cosmology though, of course there was much Jewish influence there too.
And during the first few centuries there was much debate on the flat/Globe issue.

Actually it was a fraction of Syrian theologians, the ones associated with the "Antiochian school" and their successors, the Nestorians. They did not like Greek philosophy and had a more literal approach to the bible.

Also, I already hinted at that on another place, in pre-islamic times, outside of the Greek/Roman sphere, the globe theory was not very popular, at least among everybody who was not an astronomer. Syria was quite on the border of that sphere.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 11, 2018, 02:28:10 PM
Here I have listened to you, and I think, and whether I should continue.
I have raised sharply wings**
I though became slightly closer to understanding of the world, and you only a beztolka argue having rested foreheads each other. As you won't understand - hostility between you artificially created. Already all laugh at you. All those to whom all the same what our world as they are consumers of this world. Whether space is him all the kossmos, him the main thing to watch soccer on satellite TV.
You wanted the facts. Well now don't complain. And not my fault if you don't apprehend them.
I am a pony, and I can think not standardly, and you are people - no. You study it. Otherwise and you will get stuck at the beginning of a way and you won't reach the purpose. And if you begin to understand what I speak about. And you will have after that a clear mind … I congratulate you halfway of a way to the truth. I spoke to you more than once about some things, but you didn't listen to me and generally just trollin, even without trying to understand sense of my words. I even carried out the test for trolling, and alas - you successfully have handed over him.
Now I will adduce the arguments and the facts explaining our world. Also postpone your cunning and silly mathematics in the safe.

I have stretched a hoof  forward**
Not without reason Jesus said about what by means of figures you will never understand as everything is arranged. The science will confuse you and will deceive. If all of you carried out what He told, then you would have flying cars without fuel, clear water and air, the world between you and a wonderful life. Look around. What do you see? All not so …

Folded its wings. I have stepped aside a little and a little more quietly **
I will begin with the fact that I will incontestably prove that our earth – a sphere. That you understood that figures it is just figures. And have no relation to understanding as everything is arranged. And to show what I understand with what I business.

Sorry, I will do everything in parts – one part a day, it is heavy to me to inform of a thought in English.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 11, 2018, 03:00:27 PM
you only a beztolka argue having rested foreheads each other. As you won't understand
You are just insulting us and making a bunch of baseless claims.
What is there to understand?

If you want us to attempt to understand, explain how the satellites fly above a flat Earth with minimal power.
So far all you have done is assert it is possible and all easily explained, while failing to provide any explanation.
You have asserted that a round Earth can't possibly produce a magnetic field, while using a complete strawman of how that field is generated and practically laughing at how the field is actually produced.

You are the one creating hostility not us.
You seem to want us to just accept whatever you say without question.
This is a not a forum for preaching. It is a forum for debate.

You wanted the facts. Well now don't complain. And not my fault if you don't apprehend them.
No, I wanted you to justify your claims. Not just assert them.
It is your fault as you have failed to provide any justification or backing.
So far all you have are baseless claims, strawmen and photos where you can't tell exactly where a dish is pointing.
It is entirely your fault that people aren't accepting what you are saying.

You study it.
I have.
All evidence indicates Earth is round.
The evidence indicates that a spinning ball of molten metal will generate a magnetic field, consistent with RE, and that satellites operate just fine under RE, while there is no explanation for how they magically stay up for a FE.

If you tell us to study it ourselves, don't complain when we discover that you are wrong.

but you didn't listen to me
You are confusing failing to listen with failing to accept your baseless claims.
Again, this is a forum for debate, not preaching.
I'm not just going to accept whatever baseless crap you say.

Not without reason Jesus said
More religious nonsense without anything to back it up.

I will begin with the fact that I will incontestably prove that our earth – a sphere.
So you accept that Earth is a sphere?
Then why claim it is flat?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 13, 2018, 11:50:50 AM
Excuse me JackBlack if have considered that I whom, or offend.
But be merciful to those who trust in the flat earth. They have no enough experience to compete with science. They even have no uniform theory – as they are separated in the judgments and perfectly understand that they can't explain the most obvious things.
In difference from those who it is rallied the earth – a sphere advances the idea. For them a riddle why. If we live on the earth –  flat earth. If to rise by top of houses in Moscow and Canada.
That it is impossible to communicate on radio through the North Pole. They want – but it is impossible. As well as to watch telecasts from Canada though from Paris it is possible.
Do you think all from them believe that the sun is at the height of 5 000 km over us when by planes we fly above? I haven't found explanations of it at anybody of them, as well as the same satellites which they deny. They have no connected explanation of the theory the earth - the plane with overlapping of the facts, such, as in the assumption that the earth – a sphere. Yes, it is big minus of those who believe that the - flat earth. But also their big plus, They know that they are right. Otherwise there would be no this website, and these discussions.
You are impatient my kind friend JackBlack. And of you it isn't fair to use all power of science perfected in one direction in 500 years. You don't give chance to others to express the opinion. You haven't understood me, as well as always. Perhaps because of the poor translation.
I speak as well as always – I am convinced that I live on flat earth and I see satellites over myself. I want to unite all separate facts and to try to offer a full explanation to it. Besides with cross references. Also as it in the assumption the earth – a sphere.

That those who trusts in flat earth wasn't afraid of satellites, and could will be established in the faith.
 This work not simple. You use JackBlack work of hundreds and thousands of other people who have given years of the life of the theory the earth - a sphere. What was personally made by you to prove that it is the truth?
I can't find so much time to be constantly here - as you. And correct translation occupies a half of time. Or you want that I in Russian have written personally for you JackBlack?

I once again will repeat. I will explain many things which the standard theory – flat earth can't explain. Including as satellites over ours - flat earth can really fly. But it is really heavy to tell it with full proofs. I one - against those who will look for how to disprove me.
I think those who trust in – flat earth. Temporarily will only listen to understand what I mean.

And I will begin with the theory the earth – a sphere then to compare theories among themselves.
And to use the same scientific data for confirmation or a denial of the theory the earth – the plane. That nobody has told that I use only the facts, favorable to me. Therefore I have also told, I will prove for a start that the earth – a sphere, and somebody won't be able to disprove it. Then I so, on the basis of the same facts will prove that the earth – the plane, and let will try to disprove me, those who trust in a sphere. But when both theories are proved same are either both of them are right, or both, aren't right … Paradox. Or we don't know still what. This the third - I will also try to explain.
This third explains how our world works.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 13, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
Do you think all from them believe that the sun is at the height of 5 000 km over us when by planes we fly above?
Planes fly at ~35 000 ft or 10 km, not over 5000 km.

It is the satellites, where some (not all) go well above that.

But also their big plus, They know that they are right. Otherwise there would be no this website, and these discussions.
No, that is a big minus.
They believe they are right with no basis for that belief.
This causes them to completely ignore all that which shows they are wrong.
If they were right, this website would not exist.
Instead you would have small sites with people proclaiming Earth is round, or everyone simply accepting Earth is flat.

You are impatient my kind friend JackBlack.
Only of some things, such as people repeatedly making basless claims and never providing any backing.

And of you it isn't fair to use all power of science perfected in one direction in 500 years.
Why not?

You don't give chance to others to express the opinion.
Yes I do, I just want them to back it up rather than just repeatedly assert nonsense.

Also as it in the assumption the earth – a sphere.
Note: Taking "sphere" to just mean roughly spherical rather than perfectly spherical.
No, that isn't an assumption. It is a conclusion based upon the available evidence, which has remained without any challenge which can withstand scrutiny.
The only issue is if people think it is a perfect sphere, or a perfect sphere ignoring mountains and the like.

You use JackBlack work of hundreds and thousands of other people who have given years of the life of the theory the earth - a sphere. What was personally made by you to prove that it is the truth?
I don't need there work.
The mere existence of the horizon indicates Earth is round.
The nature of objects near the horizon indicates Earth is round (including how they appear to sink as they go past the horizon, disappearing from the bottom up).
My own personal observations of the sun and stars, and time zones around the world is enough.
The Earth's shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse, again indicates Earth is round (and it doesn't take a genius to track the sun and figure out it is opposite the moon during an eclipse with Earth getting in the way. You can do this with a relatively cheap telescope with an equatorial mount tracking the sun, noting it has a fairly constant angular velocity in the equatorial plane, slightly off from the moon and slightly off from the other stars).
None of it makes sense for a FE. But makes perfect sense for a RE.

As well as that there is evidence from plenty of other people that takes very little time (at least on their part) such as taking a timelapse photo of the night sky.

People can easily find out for themselves that Earth is round.
Meanwhile, what are the reasons for people thinking Earth is flat?
"[Insert religion or holy book here] says Earth is flat."
"It looks flat" (which to me is pure bullshit. Earth in no way looks flat).
"THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO EVERYONE!!!"
"This picture which was clearly presented as a mosaic is a composite photo so all photos from space must be fake and Earth must be flat."
The reasons are pure nonsense, favouring religion over reality, ignoring reality or being paranoid.

I can't find so much time to be constantly here - as you. And correct translation occupies a half of time.
Then stop trying to focus on so many things. Pick a single issue and stick to that, providing a justification for your claims.

I once again will repeat. I will explain
Repeating this claim doesn't help you.
Actually start explaining.
Until you do, you have nothing.

If you need to have people that will just accept what you say, you can't explain it; it means you can only offer excuses.

I will prove for a start that the earth – a sphere, and somebody won't be able to disprove it. Then I so, on the basis of the same facts will prove that the earth – the plane
Go ahead and try.

But when both theories are proved same are either both of them are right, or both, aren't right … Paradox.
It means you proof was unsound for either one or both of them.

Now are you going to try providing an explanation or proof, or just more empty words?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 15, 2018, 08:43:05 PM
Ам … I can disappoint you planes up to 75 000 km (kilometers) over us. It is a record of flights.
Concerning the translation. If I begin to speak about one, then I won't be able to explain anything. Very extensive. And translation very not exact. You not against if I also repeat everything in Russian in brackets that you could check the accuracy of my words?
Excuse - it is very extensive work including comparisons of theories as during Columbus, and modern time.
Based on a research.
Sun, moon, earth.
General Theory of Relativity. Electromagnetism and radio hamming.

I will begin with ancient times.
I will be glad if you help me with it and to find inaccuracies.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 15, 2018, 11:31:02 PM
Ам … I can disappoint you planes up to 75 000 km (kilometers) over us. It is a record of flights.
Nope.
It would be either 75000 m, or 75 000 feet.

According to wiki, the current record is for an air launched rocket plane (and thus arguably, not a plane and not flying) which reached an altitude of ~112 km.
Excluding air-launched rocket planes, the record is 37 650 m.

If you wish to claim such an outrageous number (which would only be achieved by space vehicles rather than planes and they don't fly), feel free to provide a reference.

Regardless, these are for either one off things or satellites, which would be dismissed as fake by the FEers. What it should be compared to is everyday occurances almost everyone can have, e.g. a commercial flight.

You not against if I also repeat everything in Russian in brackets that you could check the accuracy of my words?
You can repeat it in Russian, however I don't speak Russian so I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Excuse - it is very extensive work including comparisons of theories as during Columbus, and modern time.
Based on a research.
Sun, moon, earth.
General Theory of Relativity. Electromagnetism and radio hamming.
None of this supports a FE.

I will begin with ancient times.
I will be glad if you help me with it and to find inaccuracies.
I can help with that.


Sorry if this post is long.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 16, 2018, 09:19:10 AM
I have absolutely got confused with figures so far translated. There are only seventy five kilometers. Excuse for a mistake. Likely I will write with letters further. Not to be confused.
https://studfiles.net/preview/6153026/page:2/
And I took figures from this – from the picture, but not from Wicky. Therefore also difference. Plus a mistake with meters and kilometers, all this has confused. It is really Х-15. And here with an accuracy of figures well it is already interpretation. At us everything is in a different way perceived. We can tell even so - and everything we understand about what the speech.
** There comes a foreigner to the Russian lonely village. Sees - the granny chases geese and shouts: "Ah you are dogs such damned, well get out!". And the man doesn't understand why it she dogs calls geese.
I have decided to ask the granny. Says:
- Grannies, it is geese???
- Well geese, you чо blind person?
- And why you their dogs called?
- But because these pigs to me have trampled all kitchen garden! **
I have understood with abstractions, I will try to bring closer everything to scientific figures as much as possible. Well I will try to duplicate in Russian, your translator can will cope better than mine.
I will be grateful if you point to mistakes.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on July 16, 2018, 08:35:58 PM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on July 16, 2018, 08:41:41 PM
Are you sure that they fly like this?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on July 17, 2018, 01:03:48 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.
To be a little more precise. Satellites are traveling along geodesics in curved spacetime.
This means that they can travel in almost circular or elliptical orbits in space, almost exactly as predicted by Newtonian Physics.

The geodesics, that you loosely call straight lines are in spacetime and that is quite different to geodesics or straight lines in space.

And for orbits around the earth the difference between Einstein's GR and Newtonian Physics is hardly measurable.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on July 17, 2018, 01:32:00 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.
No, they travel in circles or ellipses or other complicated paths. If they were traveling in a straight line, they wouldn't repeatedly go over the same point.

If you are referring to geodesics in spacetime, they are not straight lines, but analogues of them.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: markjo on July 18, 2018, 07:01:17 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy?
Yes.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on August 02, 2018, 04:25:41 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.

Because that fits in with the laws of physics, doesn't it.
Just discard force vectors when they get in the way, why don't you.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: inquisitive on August 04, 2018, 12:06:17 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.
Please explain with a typical path.  How ahout broadcast ones that are in the same place?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on August 19, 2018, 01:36:46 AM
Excuse for a long absence I can not always be here.
Here saw new subjects and just I am surprised to all these disputes on FE and RE. I was pleasant to offer only scientists to prove one the FE model.
Concerning satellites. I did not forget about intention to prove that both models are incorrect.
I have pictures of directly focal antennas which stand nearby and watch with a corner in the directions more than 50 degrees, besides they are lifted very highly. For the RE model - if for the antenna in the southern direction almost everything is clear, then standing nearby does not explain in any way why she looks into the sky almost also. But it is rejected on the East more than by 50 degrees (I live in Ukraine). You can prove as much as long, something, but the RE model does not explain it. At us it is possible to see, as well as ordinary antennas put under such inconceivable corner besides the size their identical. It means that reception of a signal goes sure.
I not without reason sent the picture of a radar-location where it is visible arrangements of satellites in a geostationary orbit. I have pictures of a radiolokaziya of the sky where it is visible as the arch of satellites decreases changing the radius and aspires in the meeting point if to go to a pole. But to rejoice early for the FE model – as * Gyro-compass * completely disproves the earth as FE! Which of you believing in FE will be able to explain how Gyro-compass works? Or you will claim again what such does not exist? Even if there is a roundabout of the earth, then on the FE model – it will not work as moving away from the equator it begins to increase equally a precession both for the movement to the north from the equator, and to the South. Whereas on FE – it in principle cannot be! Though that you tell those who trusts in FE. Our world has rotation besides a miscellaneous in different latitudes! And it proves Gyro-compass. But also who believes you that our world of RE – early to rejoice. Our world has no axis and does not rotate – and to it there are same proofs, and explaining behavior of Gyro-compass. But about it later. I want to hear believers in FE – as they can explain behavior of Gyro-compass or they will deny the principle of its work … Here the reference to the working Gyro-compass model.
https://maritime.org/doc/gyromk14/index.htm#pg7a
Work of Gyro-compass is connected in together with that as satellites over our earth fly.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on August 19, 2018, 01:40:29 AM
Excuse for my English if it is not clear - tell. I will send the original of the message, your translator can will better.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 19, 2018, 08:31:39 AM
Excuse for a long absence
No worries, the longer the better.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on August 20, 2018, 12:45:00 PM
Respected - JimmyTheCrab. What does not suit you? The fact that really there are gyrocompasses and believers in FE will hardly be able ever to obyasnit as it looks for the North Pole and proves for all 100% that the earth a sphere. As all see as he behaves at different latitudes. It not satellites of which is not visible to you in the sky, you can go to the port and poshchupit it hands and look as he calculates where the North besides поворачиваяст in different latitudes and poles on a miscellaneous. What for 100% dokazyvt that the earth a sphere and it rotates!
That it is possible to dismiss this community now or you will deny that as the gyrocompass works, well according to your comments I did not understand what you trust in so терерь you have a chance to believe. That the earth - a sphere.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on August 20, 2018, 01:13:28 PM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
They are flying in a straight line over flat ground on a path that overtakes itself. This causes them not to crash.

Other explanations include that they are not real, and are actually pseudolites or are using atmoplanar bouncing.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on August 20, 2018, 02:09:55 PM
They are flying in a straight line over flat ground on a path that overtakes itself.
What do you mean by that?
A straight line that overtakes itself?
How would a straight line overtake itself?
Do you mean a circle?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on August 20, 2018, 06:03:57 PM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
They are flying in a straight line over flat ground on a path that overtakes itself. This causes them not to crash.
Please explain how something flying in a straight line can overtake itself in flat space
If you want to drag non-Euclidean space into it then non-Euclidean space is not flat space.
Quote
Geodesics
The "shortness" and "straightness" of a line, interpreted as the property that the distance along the line between any two of its points is minimized (see triangle inequality), can be generalized and leads to the concept of geodesics in metric spaces.
Then you have to explain what mechanism can cause space to curve to that extent. Einstein's GR certainly does not.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on August 23, 2018, 08:14:12 AM
John Davis. I cannot present it. It is difficult even for me. Satellites are a reality which nobody will be able to deny, all watch TV.
Well so nevertheless who will dare to describe as the gyrocompass works at the flat earth? And satellites give a key to understanding of it.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Themightykabool on August 23, 2018, 11:34:28 AM
Johndavis - the same guy whos afraid of moon light...
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 07, 2018, 06:32:08 AM
How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?
Satellites are traveling in straight lines.
No, they travel in circles or ellipses or other complicated paths. If they were traveling in a straight line, they wouldn't repeatedly go over the same point.
Presuming the axioms of euclidean geometry are true this would be correct. They are not.
Quote
If you are referring to geodesics in spacetime, they are not straight lines, but analogues of them.
I am not.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on September 07, 2018, 10:25:27 AM
Interestingly. I have not seen in the pictures of the radar of the sky the satellites GPS - which would fly along the meridians. Believing in a ball - explain this.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 07, 2018, 02:37:16 PM
Presuming the axioms of euclidean geometry are true this would be correct. They are not.
Quote
If you are referring to geodesics in spacetime, they are not straight lines, but analogues of them.
I am not.
Straight lines are part of Euclidean geometry.

So if you are rejecting the axioms of Euclidean geometry you are not referring to straight lines.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 07, 2018, 02:45:03 PM
Interestingly. I have not seen in the pictures of the radar of the sky the satellites GPS - which would fly along the meridians. Believing in a ball - explain this.
Radar looks at low altitude, not space. The frequencies used typically get reflected by the ionosphere.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: frenat on September 07, 2018, 02:54:07 PM
Interestingly. I have not seen in the pictures of the radar of the sky the satellites GPS - which would fly along the meridians. Believing in a ball - explain this.
Radar looks at low altitude, not space. The frequencies used typically get reflected by the ionosphere.
Depends on the RADAR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAVE_PAWS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillance_Network
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 07, 2018, 03:04:27 PM
Depends on the RADAR.
Yes, there are ones designed to look at space, but most are not. I am assuming the ones he has seen are ones looking for planes.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 07, 2018, 03:14:19 PM
Presuming the axioms of euclidean geometry are true this would be correct. They are not.
Quote
If you are referring to geodesics in spacetime, they are not straight lines, but analogues of them.
I am not.
Straight lines are part of Euclidean geometry.

So if you are rejecting the axioms of Euclidean geometry you are not referring to straight lines.
Really? Because it sounds like I'm not referring to Euclidean straight lines.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 07, 2018, 03:40:16 PM
Really? Because it sounds like I'm not referring to Euclidean straight lines.
Straight lines are part of Euclidean geometry.
So you aren't referring to straight lines.

Perhaps you should try defining your terms rather than using terms which are already defined but rejecting that definition.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 07, 2018, 04:20:40 PM
Surely, one could define straight line in other geometries.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 07, 2018, 04:21:02 PM
It needs not be shown. You are being pedantic and wrong.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 07, 2018, 06:24:58 PM
Surely, one could define straight line in other geometries.
Then do so.
Explain exactly what you mean by "straight line".

It needs not be shown. You are being pedantic and wrong.
No. You are completely rejecting the definition of straight line as used by basically everyone.
It isn't being pedantic when you are using a word while completely ignoring the definition.
That would be like calling chicken beef, and when people object say they are being pedantic and wrong.

Make clear what you mean.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 07, 2018, 10:42:03 PM
Surely a straight line would lie level upon itself.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on September 07, 2018, 11:20:22 PM
Yes not, waved his hoof *
* Yes, there are ones designed to look at space, but most are not. I am assuming the same.
This is not the same.

Radio amateurs shoot for themselves the radar of the sky. The photographs show geostationary satellites. One can even see how some of them move in space. Moreover, they move so that they break the established ideas about the geostationary orbit! But here GPS satellites are not visible. As if they also hang in place, like geostationary satellites. But in the course of 24 hours we will see them moving through the sky and seeing from slowly moving dots in all directions. They have to move at a speed greater as small as the moving sun - which we see. If they actually flew, we would see them in terms of brightness and size - about the same as the satellite that was moving. But do not be deceived is not a GPS satellite - the one that moves. Since it does not have a linear velocity and stops at the end of the movement. Very much all this is strange - after all GPS have not canceled! Satellites are real - but it's very strange that we do not see them flying in the sky, and we see only weighing satellites in one place. Perhaps, it's not at all how they tell us. Or we do not really understand what is happening. Or as I said our world is completely different.
Pictures are taken with a certain period, for several days. The frequencies of GPS and TV satellites are almost identical and overlap with the range of the locator. The technical part - the locator should see them. Do not twist your tail.
Well, now what do you say?

Here is a link to my video disc.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iC2cRduh75XtIy6rokSmmNSMDhrRx6I5?usp=sharing
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: rabinoz on September 07, 2018, 11:24:25 PM
Surely a straight line would lie level upon itself.
Before wasting time quibbling over:What about explaining the relevance of all of this to "How do satellites fly over flat land?"

Especially as the motion of satellites can be (almost) perfectly periodic in space - they can orbit in almost perfectly circular orbits.

This fits in perfectly with General Relativity's curved spacetime.
This allows for an orbit to be (almost) periodic in the spacelike component of spacetime but progressiing forward at (almost exactly) one second/second in the timelike component of spacetime.

Of course, in General Relativity, the curvature of the spacelike component of spacetime near earth is small enough to be negligible and certainly nothing that could make a flat surface look like a sphere of vice versa.

Maybe you could describe your theory and provide some justification for it.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on September 07, 2018, 11:49:29 PM
« Reply #98 on: Today at 04:20:40 PM »
Surely, one could define straight line in other geometries.

Reply #101 on: Today at 10:42:03 PM »
Surely a straight line would lie level upon itself.

Да уж... Никто в Эквестрии даже не слышал о таком. Хоть тот мир действительно плоский.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 08, 2018, 12:55:03 AM
Surely a straight line would lie level upon itself.
No. That would only be the case if the level was itself straight.
Lying upon itself is also a questionable concept.
So what exactly do you mean by a "straight" line?
For example, is this line "straight"?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Circle_-_black_simple.svg)
It lies upon itself. It goes through the same point, so does that make it level?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 08, 2018, 03:54:54 AM
Radio amateurs shoot for themselves the radar of the sky. The photographs show geostationary satellites.
Photographs aren't radar.
Some satellites are visible in photos of the night sky due to reflecting sunlight, Some rotate in such a way as to reflect light and then capture it with a sensor (i.e. like a camera). Other's don't rely upon sunlight at all.
Also, Geostationary satellites are in good positions for time lapse photos with fixed cameras as they remain in the same apparent location and thus the light can build up. Other satellites would be faint streaks.


As if they also hang in place, like geostationary satellites.
They don't. They go in several orbits, with a period of roughly half a day.

If they actually flew, we would see them in terms of brightness and size - about the same as the satellite that was moving.
On what basis do you claim this?
What satellite is shown in the video? How does that satellite compare to the GPS satellites?

From what I can tell, the only objects seen moving in that frame are the sun and moon.
These objects are very large, and quite bright. That makes them very easy to see. They have an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.
On the other hand GPS satellites are quite small. From my brief research, it appears they are 2.5 m wide. Do you really expect to see something that is 2.5 m wide at a distance of 20 000 km?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on September 08, 2018, 04:28:51 AM
It is the radiolocation of the sky made by radio fans. Geosynchronous satellites are visible an arc. Under them there are the sun and the moon. There one more satellite tries to be inscribed in a geosynchronous orbit, but … that as it moves it probably on absolutely another.
I sighed. To me it became very sad. Really only I one understand what I see?
(https://picua.org/images/2018/09/08/925a6e867b058246db791bcecbc653ca.md.png)
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on September 09, 2018, 10:38:56 AM
On it I will take the leave. Once again I ask applications from all whom I could offend.
And for inquisitive and attentive people, I will tell – pay attention to my signature.
Always your Breeze.
(https://picua.org/images/2018/09/09/5cd45e65362aa778c22c57008ac1a961.th.jpg)
I bowed, having raised one hoof *
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 09, 2018, 03:04:29 PM
Surely a straight line would lie level upon itself.
No. That would only be the case if the level was itself straight.
Lying upon itself is also a questionable concept.
So what exactly do you mean by a "straight" line?
For example, is this line "straight"?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Circle_-_black_simple.svg)
It lies upon itself. It goes through the same point, so does that make it level?
You haven't given me enough to answer to that question. To restate it in different terms, a straight line is a line which lies evenly with the points on itself.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 09, 2018, 06:48:11 PM
You haven't given me enough to answer to that question. To restate it in different terms, a straight line is a line which lies evenly with the points on itself.
What information are you missing? The line is the circumference of the circle.
This is why I wanted a nice clear explanation of what you mean by "straight line".
Can you provide a definition which can then be used to evaluate lines to determine if they are "straight"?

And I thought you weren't trying to use Euclid?
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: Username on September 10, 2018, 10:10:11 AM
You haven't given me enough to answer to that question. To restate it in different terms, a straight line is a line which lies evenly with the points on itself.
What information are you missing? The line is the circumference of the circle.
This is why I wanted a nice clear explanation of what you mean by "straight line".
Can you provide a definition which can then be used to evaluate lines to determine if they are "straight"?

And I thought you weren't trying to use Euclid?
The information I'm missing is too great to list. Saying its a circle is a good start. What do you mean by circle? What space is it in? Can I assume this is to scale? What coordinate system is in use in the diagram? How would I replicate this 'circle'? What axioms of geometry are at play in this system? and so on.

I have no issue using Euclid when he is correct. As said, you can evaluate whether or not a line is straight by determining if its points lie evenly. You can determine straightness of a line AB relative to another point D by following this methodology:

Axiom:
A segment AB can be drawn joining any two points A and B.

Postulate:
Given segment AB and segment BC: A straight line AB can be drawn by extending line segment AB indefinitely such that each point D on line AB is on a line segment CD that is congruent and normal to CB and CA. The line AB will intersect each of its points at length of its period

Evidence this is manifest in nature follows from the satellite thought experiment, coherence with Newton's Laws, observed phenomenon, and the equivalence principle.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: JackBlack on September 10, 2018, 01:40:59 PM
As said, you can evaluate whether or not a line is straight by determining if its points lie evenly.
Considering how vague that statement is, I would say you can't.
What does it mean for its points to lie evenly? That all the points are the same distance apart? That each segment of the line is similar? That each segment is similar to the entire line?

You can determine straightness of a line AB relative to another point D by following this methodology:
Axiom:
A segment AB can be drawn joining any two points A and B.
Postulate:
Given segment AB and segment BC: A straight line AB can be drawn by extending line segment AB indefinitely such that each point D on line AB is on a line segment CD that is congruent and normal to CB and CA. The line AB will intersect each of its points at length of its period
Evidence this is manifest in nature follows from the satellite thought experiment, coherence with Newton's Laws, observed phenomenon, and the equivalence principle.
No, that isn't evidence at all.
Satellites are evidence of periodic orbits, not that the orbits themselves are straight lines.
Newton's laws and the equivalence principle are likewise unconnected.

Evidence against it is that it doesn't even match the most common idea of a straight line, one in Euclidean space.
Normal requires it to be at 90 degrees.
You can also see that D can also be at point A or B.
So you are saying a line needs to be at 90 degrees to itself which makes no sense.

So it is quite clear, you are not talking about straight lines. You are talking about something completely different and pretending they are straight lines.
Title: Re: How do satellites fly over flat land?
Post by: SpaceCadet on September 17, 2018, 08:20:09 AM
Jack. You are helping John muddy the waters again. This debate will not go well for the flat earth movement and John needs to derail it as quickly as he can. Don't encourage him, please.

Heavenly Breeze, you have spent all of four pages saying nothing. Give a simple explanation as to how satellites work on a flat earth. A summary. we'll ask questions as needed. and going slowly like that will help overcome things getting lost in translation.