The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 10:45:12 AM

Title: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 10:45:12 AM
There are millions of facts that can never be argued.  We all breath oxygen.  If you are posting here you are using electricity. Math is an awesome source of facts.  That is why it is called the language of science.  There are 360 degrees in a circle.  A triangle is a polygon having three sides. Mathematical facts are irrefutable.  That is one glaring deficiency among FET. You rarely see mathematics used to prove a hypothesis.  I am not using the word "never". But it is exceedingly uncommon.  RE is overflowing with mathematical proofs. I know math may seem complicated and boring for a lot of people.  The nice thing is that math facts can not be refuted so it makes it a very efficient way to put an end to the discussion of a topic.  If you want to argue a fact, it is a waste of time and you are absolutely wrong.

Edit: I realize I missed the word "is" in the subject line.  But apparently I can't change it. Sorry.         
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 13, 2017, 12:50:05 PM
FE is something emerging, started not long ago and little by little will destroy the any existing false physics theories.

Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.

Yet FE is currently growing fast n fenomenal ~
Title: Re: Why Mathematics is so Uncommon in FE nonsense?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 12:51:31 PM
That is because the math disagrees with FE.
By trying to keep it as vague as posisble they can pretend it matches reality.
When you start doing the numbers you realise it is crap.

A common one is the claim that you would be thrown off Earth if it was spinning, yet doing the math you find that the force is basically nothing for us standing on Earth.

The only time they seem to do math is with Eratosthenes's measurements (technically ones similar to it, not exactly the same) to try and show the sun is 5000 km above Earth, and when trying to claim that curvature is missing, which they typically do completely wrong.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 12:53:35 PM
FE is something emerging, started not long ago and little by little will destroy the any existing false physics theories.

Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.

Yet FE is currently growing fast n fenomenal ~
Pure BS.
FE has been around long before RE.
FE was simply assumed by people.
But then observations were made which showed that FE was wrong.
Thousands of years ago, your description of FE matches that of RE.
RE was something emerging, starting then, which little by little destroyed FE nonsense.

While the number of people that believe in FE may be growing, they don't believe in the same model, and they don't have a model that matches reality.
A bunch of fools believing it won't magically make it true.
All the evidence still points to a RE.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 02:00:15 PM
That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
FE is something emerging, started not long ago and little by little will destroy the any existing false physics theories.

Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.

Yet FE is currently growing fast n fenomenal ~
Pure BS.
FE has been around long before RE.
FE was simply assumed by people.
But then observations were made which showed that FE was wrong.
Thousands of years ago, your description of FE matches that of RE.
RE was something emerging, starting then, which little by little destroyed FE nonsense.

While the number of people that believe in FE may be growing, they don't believe in the same model, and they don't have a model that matches reality.
A bunch of fools believing it won't magically make it true.
All the evidence still points to a RE.
Actually the idea that people believed in a flat earth during the middle ages is bogus. Our belief system originated in the 1800s and differs from purely believing it flat as many vertical and horizontal cosmologies suggest in religions and worldviews. It also differs from some of the ancient belief systems that also held the earth to be flat.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 02:14:21 PM
Actually the idea that people believed in a flat earth during the middle ages is bogus.
Did you notice how I said thousands of years ago?
Last time I checked that wouldn't match the middle ages.

Our belief system
Well I'm glad you admit it is a belief system, rather than anything scientific.

It also differs from some of the ancient belief systems that also held the earth to be flat.
Yes, as these ancient belief systems often more closely resemble that of a round Earth.
For example, getting the current RE model, fixing Earth and having all motion be relative to it, with the stars as points on a celestial sphere that rotated around Earth. Then just remove the vast majority of Earth so you are left with a thin slice and flatten it.
That works fairly well.
But it would mean most of Earth doesn't exist, and results in your model matching reality less.

One simple example of the massive difference between the models is sunrise and sunset.
The ancients had a nice simple answer:
The sun went below Earth, so Earth got in the way and you couldn't see it.
Compared to reality (RE) this works quite well, but as it goes below Earth that means you can't see it while people elsewhere still can.
But for the new FE, they need all sorts of nonsense to make it work.
They can't have the sun go below Earth as it is always above some point on Earth.
But keeping it above Earth would mean everyone can always see it and it never sets.
So they need to invert all sorts of nonsense like magic bendy light or a magic spotlight sun.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 02:17:44 PM
Our belief system
Well I'm glad you admit it is a belief system, rather than anything scientific.
Scientific consensus is a belief system. Otherwise, you'll need to find a replacement for falsification and empiricism.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 02:31:53 PM
Scientific consensus is a belief system. Otherwise, you'll need to find a replacement for falsification and empiricism.
Yes, science can be considered a belief system. The individual components of it are not.
So if you have a separate belief system, that means it isn't science.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Empirical on December 13, 2017, 03:04:35 PM
Also when they actually use a formula to calculate something, they rarely use more data than it's degrees of freedom. Like when they calculate the height of the sun, they only use it's angle at two locations instead of three, otherwise they would get an error.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 03:34:19 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics
Did you read the link you posted?  It tries to reference a theory that doesn’t exist or even apply to the earth. Gausses theory they use is regarding an infinite “charged” plane. But the link leaves out charged all together and just says plane. The Blog is absolutely nonsense. Putting up a made up formula doesn’t qualify as proof.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 03:43:00 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics
Did you read the link you posted?  It tries to reference a theory that doesn’t exist or even apply to the earth. Gausses theory they use is regarding an infinite “charged” plane. But the link leaves out charged all together and just says plane. The Blog is absolutely nonsense. Putting up a made up formula doesn’t qualify as proof.
Of course I read it. I wrote it.

Here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law_for_gravity

Shall I count you now amongst the believers?

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Empirical on December 13, 2017, 03:54:59 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics
Did you read the link you posted?  It tries to reference a theory that doesn’t exist or even apply to the earth. Gausses theory they use is regarding an infinite “charged” plane. But the link leaves out charged all together and just says plane. The Blog is absolutely nonsense. Putting up a made up formula doesn’t qualify as proof.
Of course I read it. I wrote it.

Here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law_for_gravity

Shall I count you now amongst the believers?

Try calculating the stresses that the infinite plane would be under. I remember someone else working it out and I think the result was that the earth would be under infinite stress at some points.
Also ignoring stress problems, an infinite plane is still only metastable, any irregularities would cause a collapse.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
Again you provide a nonsensical link to a subject that has no relationship to a flat plane. The information on the page references the gravitational flux through any closed surface is proportional to the enclosed mass. A globe is even shown as an example of a compact closed surface!  An infinite flat plane is not a compact closed surface. Do you even believe in gravity? Most FE believers don’t. Are you just posting random links?  Nothing you have linked are particularly complicated concepts. I’m starting to believe you don’t think I am particularly bright.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 04:31:52 PM
"Provide math, and I'll believe in a flat earth"

"I don't understand the math, therefore it is fake, and anything you say to the contrary is 'random'."

@empirical, I'm not convinced that the attempts to calculate stability were well formed. This can be realized by calculating the gravitational forces influencing any one point, which will always be 0 in the ideal case, and less than the minimum for issues in the actual case. What do you think will happen if it is unstable Empirical, assuming the calculations are correct? Would it not collapse to its center of gravity (it has none), and take an infinite amount of time doing so?

Also, it is not necessary for it to be completely uniform, just uniform enough.

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Empirical on December 13, 2017, 05:28:10 PM
The disk could be made unstable by having a large mass on top of it, maybe it would have to be ridiculously large, I'll do some calculations tomorrow.
The earth surrounding the large mass would be pulled towards it, making the higher concentration of mass at this part of the disk larger, which will cause feedback making the pull larger until it is strong enough to pull apart the rocket. Then you get a collapse for the rest of eternity into a lump.
The initial mass just needs to be large enough to warp the surrounding rocket enough to cause feedback.
I'm not familiar with the exact deformation of rock under forces, so I'll need to do a bit of researcher to work this out.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 13, 2017, 05:38:11 PM
Maths doesn't just sprout fully formed into being. All you can derive there is pure maths, which is fun but of limited use if you want to model the world. There are no mathematical proofs of RET, mathematical proofs are a specific thing which apply to the realm of numbers only.
What I expect you're talking about is mathematical formulae used in RET to make predictions or gain data. Those aren't mathematical proofs, just either evidence or deduction depending on application. Things like Newton's laws weren't proven mathematically, some guy with silly hair observed a few things and realised what factors were involved and drew conclusions. You can make mathematical proofs that draw on them, creating identities becomes pretty easy, but they're not mathematically proven so much as they are scientifically. (And yes, there's a difference, maths gives you 100% certainty so long as axioms hold and your proof-readers aren't missing something, science can get you 99.9999%).

As far as FET goes, there's maths. People just don't discuss it. Davis gave a formula from the infinite plane model (which is one of those FE models that uses gravity), JRowe have a formula for aether, it's pretty easy to derive a formula for denpressure...
But there are two basic kinds of maths in this context. One, the trivial. Two, the obscene.
You don't get much new information with the denpressure formula or infinite plane model, beyond the fact the relevant details could work. if you want, for dome models you can calculate the height of the dome if you want to make specific assumptions (the problem being trying to confirm those assumptions).
The other case is the obscenely hard. JRowe's aether formula I'm still not entirely convinced was meant seriously, but it's about what I'd expect the phenomenon he'd describe to look like. Think four dimensional partial differential equation. The kind of people that can derive brand new physical formulae are the top-tier geniuses of the world. Pick something you want the maths for under FET, and then try to figure out how that maths would actually get derived.

Chances are it's either something you could do easily, or that you wouldn't know where to start. Either there's no point in discussing it, or it's an absurd thing to demand.
Besides, most of the interesting parts of FET are in the mechanisms. Wait until you're happy with the mechanisms as potential explanations before you start pushing for more.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 05:39:54 PM
I specifically said, “math fact”. Not some random references to subjects that don’t apply in anyway to FET. That is not exactly helping the cause of FE mathematics. Especially when you are trying to use gravity to prove a FE. There is a very good reason FET and gravity do not compliment each other. You should know this better than anyone.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 13, 2017, 05:44:45 PM
I specifically said, “math fact”. Not some random references to subjects that don’t apply in anyway to FET. That is not exactly helping the cause of FE mathematics. Especially when you are trying to use gravity to prove a FE. There is a very good reason FET and gravity do not compliment each other. You should know this better than anyone.
Instead of assuming Davis is just saying something irrelevant, try to take on board what he actually said. Gravity and an infinite plane go hand in hand just fine, the normal issue with gravity is that a flat Earth would get pulled into a ball (though FEers have found ways around that), but for an infinite plane there's no centre to pull to. The leftwards and rightwards pull wherever you are would be completely balanced because there is the same infinite amount of Earth in each direction. There are a multitude of FE models that use gravity in some form, I have no idea where you're getting the idea it doesn't apply from.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 13, 2017, 05:50:12 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics

So funny :). While no one thought that you belong to the "beginner" you got offended.

I wrote "most of them". Got it? :)

Or do you feel you're really a beginner?

That's what I feel about me. "I am a beginner".

Beginner doesn't really mean they never learnt physics at schools before.
However, after graduation they are not into science stuff due to its boring nature. (Fake science is always boring).

Flat earth phenomenon has attracted so many beginners to become more intense getting in touch with science. I meant: real science.

"REAL Science Ain't Boring At All. It's MIND BLOWING, even ENTERTAINING n FULL OF JOY"

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 13, 2017, 06:09:26 PM
That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!

I have no idea who initiated Universal Acceleration. Anyone knows?

Anyway I am still working out on free fall object reality by UA perspective. I called UA with "AE" >> "Ascending Earth". (Some group of people are familiar with this term, yet with different connotation, not physics).

Have you read my previous posts regarding the math of AE?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 06:10:34 PM
Maths doesn't just sprout fully formed into being. All you can derive there is pure maths, which is fun but of limited use if you want to model the world. There are no mathematical proofs of RET, mathematical proofs are a specific thing which apply to the realm of numbers only.
What I expect you're talking about is mathematical formulae used in RET to make predictions or gain data. Those aren't mathematical proofs, just either evidence or deduction depending on application. Things like Newton's laws weren't proven mathematically, some guy with silly hair observed a few things and realised what factors were involved and drew conclusions. You can make mathematical proofs that draw on them, creating identities becomes pretty easy, but they're not mathematically proven so much as they are scientifically. (And yes, there's a difference, maths gives you 100% certainty so long as axioms hold and your proof-readers aren't missing something, science can get you 99.9999%).

As far as FET goes, there's maths. People just don't discuss it. Davis gave a formula from the infinite plane model (which is one of those FE models that uses gravity), JRowe have a formula for aether, it's pretty easy to derive a formula for denpressure...
But there are two basic kinds of maths in this context. One, the trivial. Two, the obscene.
You don't get much new information with the denpressure formula or infinite plane model, beyond the fact the relevant details could work. if you want, for dome models you can calculate the height of the dome if you want to make specific assumptions (the problem being trying to confirm those assumptions).
The other case is the obscenely hard. JRowe's aether formula I'm still not entirely convinced was meant seriously, but it's about what I'd expect the phenomenon he'd describe to look like. Think four dimensional partial differential equation. The kind of people that can derive brand new physical formulae are the top-tier geniuses of the world. Pick something you want the maths for under FET, and then try to figure out how that maths would actually get derived.

Chances are it's either something you could do easily, or that you wouldn't know where to start. Either there's no point in discussing it, or it's an absurd thing to demand.
Besides, most of the interesting parts of FET are in the mechanisms. Wait until you're happy with the mechanisms as potential explanations before you start pushing for more.
Everything is bound by math and facts. It is the fundamental way we understand the world around us. I’m prone to dismissing any answer that include the words, “should, could, might, it’s thought and it’s believed.” I think these words are totally acceptable in a belief system. But they are awful words to us in proofs. I’m very receptive to words like, “we know, it’s been proven and it’s a fact.”  Those words give me great comfort. Newton’s Laws of motion are called laws for a reason.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 13, 2017, 06:20:39 PM
Everything is bound by math and facts. It is the fundamental way we understand the world around us. I’m prone to dismissing any answer that include the words, “should, could, might, it’s thought and it’s believed.” I think these words are totally acceptable in a belief system. But they are awful words to us in proofs. I’m very receptive to words like, “we know, it’s been proven and it’s a fact.”  Those words give me great comfort. Newton’s Laws of motion are called laws for a reason.
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 06:46:10 PM
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics

So funny :). While no one thought that you belong to the "beginner" you got offended.

I wrote "most of them". Got it? :)

Or do you feel you're really a beginner?

That's what I feel about me. "I am a beginner".

Beginner doesn't really mean they never learnt physics at schools before.
However, after graduation they are not into science stuff due to its boring nature. (Fake science is always boring).

Flat earth phenomenon has attracted so many beginners to become more intense getting in touch with science. I meant: real science.

"REAL Science Ain't Boring At All. It's MIND BLOWING, even ENTERTAINING n FULL OF JOY"
Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.
Can you actually justify this? Or are you talking out of your ass.

That’s the thing. Once you get the math right. It’s really settles issue. If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Done. Glad to have you on the flat side:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics

So funny :). While no one thought that you belong to the "beginner" you got offended.

I wrote "most of them". Got it? :)

Or do you feel you're really a beginner?

That's what I feel about me. "I am a beginner".

Beginner doesn't really mean they never learnt physics at schools before.
However, after graduation they are not into science stuff due to its boring nature. (Fake science is always boring).

Flat earth phenomenon has attracted so many beginners to become more intense getting in touch with science. I meant: real science.

"REAL Science Ain't Boring At All. It's MIND BLOWING, even ENTERTAINING n FULL OF JOY"
You are right on the money about getting people involved in the sciences. If FET gets people involved in the scientific process it’s awesome. Everyone needs to be a critical thinker.  I guess I didn’t particularly feel offended earlier as much as irritated by the links. It’s the same reason I refuse to open links to YouTube videos. I respect someone’s personal opinion over a video.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 07:20:49 PM
Everything is bound by math and facts. It is the fundamental way we understand the world around us. I’m prone to dismissing any answer that include the words, “should, could, might, it’s thought and it’s believed.” I think these words are totally acceptable in a belief system. But they are awful words to us in proofs. I’m very receptive to words like, “we know, it’s been proven and it’s a fact.”  Those words give me great comfort. Newton’s Laws of motion are called laws for a reason.
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 08:36:14 PM
UA is an elegant early attempt at a solution to the fact that gravity as we know it is a complete farce. Its a simple word we hide our ignorance in. It could work in principle, but I feel it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 13, 2017, 08:38:05 PM
Everything is bound by math and facts. It is the fundamental way we understand the world around us. I’m prone to dismissing any answer that include the words, “should, could, might, it’s thought and it’s believed.” I think these words are totally acceptable in a belief system. But they are awful words to us in proofs. I’m very receptive to words like, “we know, it’s been proven and it’s a fact.”  Those words give me great comfort. Newton’s Laws of motion are called laws for a reason.
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
Tell me, how was oxygen discovered?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Pizza Planet on December 13, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Everything is bound by math and facts. It is the fundamental way we understand the world around us. I’m prone to dismissing any answer that include the words, “should, could, might, it’s thought and it’s believed.” I think these words are totally acceptable in a belief system. But they are awful words to us in proofs. I’m very receptive to words like, “we know, it’s been proven and it’s a fact.”  Those words give me great comfort. Newton’s Laws of motion are called laws for a reason.
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
Tell me, how was oxygen discovered?

lol, you must be a troll, at this point you are just rejecting all observable and measurable science. Your word over the millions of scientist experts, lol no... Every scientist that ever existed must of been hiding all these lies, your talking about a conspiracy bigger than NASA. You are just plain ignorant, what is your experience/education in any professional science. Let me guess...none.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 13, 2017, 09:07:23 PM
The point isn’t who discovered oxygen. That’s easy to answer.  The real question is why do we believe it exists?  You can’t smell it, taste it, see it or even feel it. Our air is made up of 78% nitrogen. Wouldn’t it make sense that we are breathing nitrogen? We all accept the fact we need oxygen to survive. Why don’t we consider that to be a lie?  Maybe it’s a government conspiracy?  We know it is true because it’s a fact. It has been mathematically proven and scientifically studied. It isn’t 99% true. It is 100% true! It can be proven. If we live on a flat earth it is our obligation to prove it by facts if you want someone to take you seriously. Lies and conspiracy theories don’t fly in the real world of science.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 13, 2017, 09:32:44 PM
Tell me, how was oxygen discovered?
lol, you must be a troll, at this point you are just rejecting all observable and measurable science.
Hold that thought!
Quote from: Pizza Planet
You are just plain ignorant, what is your experience/education in any professional science. Let me guess...none.
No, John Davis is most certainly not ignorant. Just read:
. . . . . . I am not a failed man, but the leading Zetetic scientist of our time. I have advanced our knowledge of the universe more so than any one other person since Rowbotham himself. When the veil is lifted from the eyes of the world, they will sing songs to laud the sacrifices that have led to what we know about the flat earth. . . . . . . . .
Yes, I am the most influential man of our time.

Just how could "the most influential man of our time" on the authority of  the most influential man of our time be classed as ignorant.

So, I humbly suggest that you go with that first thought that I asked you to hold.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 13, 2017, 09:49:31 PM
FE is something emerging, started not long ago and little by little will destroy the any existing false physics theories.

Most of them are 'beginners' n didn't go to physics college or such. Don't expect it is a complete science entity.

Yet FE is currently growing fast n fenomenal ~

Flat earth belief was created by the uneducated for the uneducated so maths physics or any other academic discipline will not be required to support their fictional beliefs.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 10:40:02 PM
Did you read the link you posted?  It tries to reference a theory that doesn’t exist or even apply to the earth. Gausses theory they use is regarding an infinite “charged” plane. But the link leaves out charged all together and just says plane. The Blog is absolutely nonsense. Putting up a made up formula doesn’t qualify as proof.
The page is to show that gravity works fine on an infinite flat Earth, and that it can be stable rather than collapse into a sphere.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 10:47:22 PM
Try calculating the stresses that the infinite plane would be under. I remember someone else working it out and I think the result was that the earth would be under infinite stress at some points.
Also ignoring stress problems, an infinite plane is still only metastable, any irregularities would cause a collapse.
If it was perfectly uniform, the stress would only act to make it thinner, not collapse it.

Only irregularities which produce stresses large enough to overcome the yield stress of the material would cause a collapse.
The same is true for Earth.
A perfect sphere is stable, but Earth is not a perfect sphere. It has mountains.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 13, 2017, 10:48:08 PM
Anyway I am still working out on free fall object reality by UA perspective. I called UA with "AE" >> "Ascending Earth". (Some group of people are familiar with this term, yet with different connotation, not physics).

Have you read my previous posts regarding the math of AE?
Does the math show how the acceleration can vary across Earth without Earth tearing itself apart?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Empirical on December 14, 2017, 12:29:47 AM
UA is an elegant early attempt at a solution to the fact that gravity as we know it is a complete farce. Its a simple word we hide our ignorance in. It could work in principle, but I feel it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.
But your infinite earth theory uses Newtonian gravity, so you agree with gravity as we know it??
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 14, 2017, 12:42:44 AM
UA is an elegant early attempt at a solution to the fact that gravity as we know it is a complete farce. Its a simple word we hide our ignorance in. It could work in principle, but I feel it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.

Before going far, I'd ask you once again: What prevents an object to go beyond light's speed.

I won't ask this matter to you again if you'll still ignore it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 14, 2017, 12:46:48 AM
Anyway I am still working out on free fall object reality by UA perspective. I called UA with "AE" >> "Ascending Earth". (Some group of people are familiar with this term, yet with different connotation, not physics).

Have you read my previous posts regarding the math of AE?
Does the math show how the acceleration can vary across Earth without Earth tearing itself apart?

I spoke about free fall object. It has nothing to do with that silly reality which you misunderstood.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 14, 2017, 01:05:42 AM
The point isn’t who discovered oxygen. That’s easy to answer.  The real question is why do we believe it exists?  You can’t smell it, taste it, see it or even feel it. Our air is made up of 78% nitrogen. Wouldn’t it make sense that we are breathing nitrogen? We all accept the fact we need oxygen to survive. Why don’t we consider that to be a lie?  Maybe it’s a government conspiracy?  We know it is true because it’s a fact. It has been mathematically proven and scientifically studied. It isn’t 99% true. It is 100% true! It can be proven. If we live on a flat earth it is our obligation to prove it by facts if you want someone to take you seriously. Lies and conspiracy theories don’t fly in the real world of science.

By using Reverse Flat Earth map, it's sufficient to disprove the globe model by refering the reality of 'north hemisplane'. Its huge distances from Europe to Greenland to North America - not to mention 'Bering Strait' which is actually a huge ocean - indicates that the globe model is just an imagination.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 14, 2017, 02:54:03 AM
By using Reverse Flat Earth map, it's sufficient to disprove the globe model by refering the reality of 'north hemisplane'.
Its huge distances from Europe to Greenland to North America - not to mention 'Bering Strait' which is actually a huge ocean - indicates that the globe model is just an imagination.
Who says that the "'Bering Strait' which is actually a huge ocean"? Have you ever measured it?

So what? The "usual" flat earth has completely unrealistic distances in the Southern Hemisphere.
All that proves is that the the "usual" flat earth in not a correct flat earth map.

Since the so-called "Reverse Flat Earth map" is nothing more than a South Pole Centred Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the Globe it proves nothing about the Globe.
If it's distances are incorrect, that simply proves that your "Reverse Flat Earth map" is also an incorrect flat earth map.

Read about the AEP projections in Azimuthal equidistant projection. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 03:39:47 AM
Does the math show how the acceleration can vary across Earth without Earth tearing itself apart?
I spoke about free fall object. It has nothing to do with that silly reality which you misunderstood.
So you are just doing a purely hypothetical situation and not trying to deal with reality?



By using Reverse Flat Earth map, it's sufficient to disprove the globe model
No it isn't.
That requires baselessly assuming your delusional map is correct.
Until you prove your map is correct (which would requiring refuting the globe) it can only be used to prove your map is wrong.

by refering the reality of 'north hemisplane'.
You mean the northern hemisphere, which doesn't match your map at all and shows your map is pure BS?

For example, Polaris being due north for everyone, showing the north pole is a point, not a circle with a circumference of over 150 000 km.

Its huge distances from Europe to Greenland to North America
Yes, in your map, not in reality. In reality, the distance is quite small.

not to mention 'Bering Strait' which is actually a huge ocean
No, it is a small strait.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Crutchwater on December 14, 2017, 03:49:57 AM
FE is something emerging, started not long ago and little by little will destroy the any existing false physics theories.



Good luck!

Let us know when this begins!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 14, 2017, 04:37:36 AM
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
I know that I'm breathing it because of the scientific theory and explanation surrounding air and respiration. Pretty much exactly in line with what I said. You're switching definitions of 'fact' on a dime whenever it's convenient, from mathematically proven to scientifically proven, and those are not the same things. The methods of proof are completely different, and to equate the two is a fundamental misunderstanding of both disciplines.
Mathematical proof is 100% reliable, but also purely theoretical.
Scientific proof can only be 99.9999% reliable, but is primarily practical.

What we see can't be denied. How we explain that is up for grabs, and once upon a time the RE explanations would've been on par with the modern day FE ones, it's a bit silly to object that FET generally developed by individuals doesn't compare to RET after several centuries. Maybe FET will be better after a few centuries, maybe not, either way judge the models on their own merits.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 08:13:25 AM
UA is an elegant early attempt at a solution to the fact that gravity as we know it is a complete farce. Its a simple word we hide our ignorance in. It could work in principle, but I feel it doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.
But your infinite earth theory uses Newtonian gravity, so you agree with gravity as we know it??
Gravity is simply a word we use to hide our ignorance. Do I deny that objects fall at a certain rate, which can be described roughly with a formula? Of course not. We all know things fall.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 08:14:53 AM
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
I know that I'm breathing it because of the scientific theory and explanation surrounding air and respiration. Pretty much exactly in line with what I said. You're switching definitions of 'fact' on a dime whenever it's convenient, from mathematically proven to scientifically proven, and those are not the same things. The methods of proof are completely different, and to equate the two is a fundamental misunderstanding of both disciplines.
Mathematical proof is 100% reliable, but also purely theoretical.
Scientific proof can only be 99.9999% reliable, but is primarily practical.

What we see can't be denied. How we explain that is up for grabs, and once upon a time the RE explanations would've been on par with the modern day FE ones, it's a bit silly to object that FET generally developed by individuals doesn't compare to RET after several centuries. Maybe FET will be better after a few centuries, maybe not, either way judge the models on their own merits.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
Well put!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 08:31:06 AM
I’ll state it again, mathematics is the language of science. It’s how we explain what we see. You don’t breathe oxygen because of scientific theory. I can calculate how much oxygen you breathe. Mathematical equations aren't magic. They are logical statements of factual information. The difference between math and normal language is that math is designed in such a way that it can't produce illogical results.  That’s the beauty of math. It can’t produce illogical results. I think that is part of the weakness of FE. It has so many unknown factors that it is impossible to prove. Or even substantiate. And if you choose to not use current data in calculations to mathematical determine the shape of the earth. You have chosen willful ignorance over the pursuit of truth.

RE has enough mathematical evidence to support it that it could fill a library?  Do you think RE claims to know the approximate weight of the earth because we put it on a scale or observed it?  Does RE claims to know the distance of The Sun and Moon because someone observed the celestial objects? Observation was not enough.  No, it was calculated using math. I can calculate the height of a building using trigonometry. You can observe a building and “guess” it’s height. Get a group people together and have them observe the building. How do you determine who is right? Trigonometry removes the guess work.  Get a group of people together that understand  basic trigonometry and have them look at my calculations. Everyone in the group can be 100% certain of my result.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 10:21:01 AM
They're called laws because the chance of them being wrong is 0.00000000001%. Maths is concerned with proofs, but only when it's not applied. Applying maths is concerned with evidence. Why can this be applied to that, why is that a factor, why isn't this?
The only facts are what we see. Science is how we try to explain those facts.

If you're going to object to FEers' word choices rather than pay attention to what it is they're saying you might be comfortable but you're not making good arguments.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen? How do you know you are breathing it? There are thousands of facts that you will never see. The statement that, “the only facts are what we see” is absolutely false. I have never understood how people confuse facts with beliefs or opinions. There is a huge difference. Things that are facts only become facts because no argument can be made. There is absolutely no arguing a fact.
I know that I'm breathing it because of the scientific theory and explanation surrounding air and respiration. Pretty much exactly in line with what I said. You're switching definitions of 'fact' on a dime whenever it's convenient, from mathematically proven to scientifically proven, and those are not the same things. The methods of proof are completely different, and to equate the two is a fundamental misunderstanding of both disciplines.
Mathematical proof is 100% reliable, but also purely theoretical.
Scientific proof can only be 99.9999% reliable, but is primarily practical.

What we see can't be denied. How we explain that is up for grabs, and once upon a time the RE explanations would've been on par with the modern day FE ones, it's a bit silly to object that FET generally developed by individuals doesn't compare to RET after several centuries. Maybe FET will be better after a few centuries, maybe not, either way judge the models on their own merits.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you are going to respond to something make sure to include at least a couple facts in your post. What we see CAN be denied.  We use math to explain what we see/observe. You "know" you breath oxygen because of "theory?" I'm sure glad I don't breathe "theoretical" oxygen. I breathe in the real thing. No one is going to take you seriously if you use words like, "pretty much exactly, how we explain that is up for grabs, once apon a time, silly, maybe, and maybe not. Those are words that are argumentative.  There are questions that be solved using math than can not be argued.  And that's the point where you show your hypocrisy.  Not everything can be argued.  Yet you use argumentative worlds to try and prove your point. Mathmatics is an excellent way to explain what we observe.  That can't be argued. 

The whole intent of this post is to understand why is math is so uncommon in FET. Is it because of the lack or data?  The lack of research? Is it because there is no particular desire to find an answer?  I haven't seen any explaination why math isn't more prevalent in FET. Math is absolutely critical in all other fields of study.  Why is so conspicuously missing in FET?   
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 10:27:51 AM
And we now see why flat earthers don't often present mathematics to roundies:
(https://foolforhim.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/fingers-in-ears.jpg)

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 10:44:55 AM
Wow a Meme. How original. So I assume your post means math isn't prevalent in FE is because RE people can't grasp the mathematics involved?  I'm just a wee bit skeptical of the premise.     
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 11:27:25 AM
Wow a Meme. How original. So I assume your post means math isn't prevalent in FE is because RE people can't grasp the mathematics involved?  I'm just a wee bit skeptical of the premise.     
You failed to understand Gauss' law yourself.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 12:29:37 PM
Wow a Meme. How original. So I assume your post means math isn't prevalent in FE is because RE people can't grasp the mathematics involved?  I'm just a wee bit skeptical of the premise.     
You failed to understand Gauss' law yourself.
You have to explain which of Gauss' laws you think I don't understand.  And apparently you forgot to add the "s" to law.  It is Gauss' laws. Not law.  He almost exclusively studied the effects of Electromagnetism. If you are referring to gravity that is sort of a moot point. You are not going to get a whole lot of support from the FE community if you support gravity in a FE scenario.  You might as well try to use satellites to prove the Earth is flat.  That's a discussion I would love to see! 
I'll shoot you an article specifically using one of Gauss's laws in a FE scenario.
  http://www.academia.edu/11774821/An_exercise_on_Gauss_law_for_gravitation_The_Flat_Earth_model

All I can see is a way to derail the subject of math and the FET. I'm not going to turn this into a argument over the proof of one law.  Gauss' law of gravitation does not prove a FE period.
And how can you think someone is every going to take you serious if you post a meme as part of a response to any post?   
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 14, 2017, 12:36:40 PM
What do you mean, he won't get support from the FE community? There are a few FE models that have gravity.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 12:46:57 PM
The only facts are what we see.
What we see doesn’t always have a correlation to facts. Have you ever seen oxygen?
I know that I'm breathing it because of the scientific theory and explanation surrounding air and respiration. Pretty much exactly in line with what I said.
Perhaps you should pay attention to what has been said.
I have removed all bar the key points.
You claimed facts are what we see, but now for your defence of breathing oxygen, you don't appeal to what we see.

Would you like to restate your position?

Maybe FET will be better after a few centuries, maybe not, either way judge the models on their own merits.
FE BS has had a lot longer than RET.
Yet it is still crap, completely incapable of explaining reality.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
That seems to be all you ever do.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 12:48:51 PM
Gravity is simply a word we use to hide our ignorance. Do I deny that objects fall at a certain rate, which can be described roughly with a formula? Of course not. We all know things fall.
Sure, just like electrostatic interactions is a word we use to hide our ignorance, and so on with the other forces.
Gravity isn't just things falling, it is masses attracting other masses (and even changing the path of light).
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 01:08:29 PM
What do you mean, he won't get support from the FE community? There are a few FE models that have gravity.

That's actually good to know.  I don't see a lot of posts that include gravity as part of the FE model. I guess I was being a little narrow minded.  I still stand by my observation that most FET excludes gravity. I admire critical thinking.   
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 14, 2017, 01:15:49 PM
If you are going to respond to something make sure to include at least a couple facts in your post. What we see CAN be denied.  We use math to explain what we see/observe. You "know" you breath oxygen because of "theory?" I'm sure glad I don't breathe "theoretical" oxygen. I breathe in the real thing. No one is going to take you seriously if you use words like, "pretty much exactly, how we explain that is up for grabs, once apon a time, silly, maybe, and maybe not. Those are words that are argumentative.
No, they're words. I use a few hedging terms in an apparently vain attempt to stop the more bloody-minded users who'd throw a fit at anything else.
Yep, you breathe in real oxygen, but I would love to hear you define both oxygen and respiration without appealing to theory. And, fun fact, it is incredibly easy to explain and justify respiration without needing to appeal to maths, undercutting your point.


Quote
I haven't seen any explaination why math isn't more prevalent in FET.
Give that there have been several over the course of this thread, that seems to be entirely reflective of you rather than FET. You've had people actually provide maths, and had it explained how the mathematics used in a scientific context is not exactly easy to create, especially with what FEers have to work with. Like I said before:
"Pick something you want the maths for under FET, and then try to figure out how that maths would actually get derived."
If you can't even come up with a method for how what you want could be found, then it's a silly thing to ask for.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 01:24:42 PM
That’s the beauty of math. It can’t produce illogical results.
Logical and consistent with reality are 2 fundamentally different things.
Math, like logic, is only as good as the premises.
If you start with garbage you often get garbage.

Also, I would say math can produce illogical results.
Consider the series:
S1=1+2+3+4+...
What does this add up to?
According to some math, it is -1/12.
Does that seem logical?
You have a sum of positive numbers, equally a tiny negative number.

What about sets?
If you have 2 sets, with a 1:1 mapping, they are the same size.
If you have 2 sets with a 1:2 mapping, the second set (the one with the 2) is twice as large.

Consider the set of integers greater than 0 (P), and the set of integers excluding 0 (I).
There exists a quite simple 1:2 mapping between them
For every element in set P (p), there exists 2 elements in set I (i1 and i2):
i1=p
i2=-p.
That means I must be twice as large as P.

But there exists a 1:1 mapping as well:
i=(-1)^p*(p+0.5-0.5*(-1)^p)/2
So they are the same size.

So you have 2 sets, which are the same size, yet one is twice as large as the other.
That sure doesn't seem logical.


I think that is part of the weakness of FE. It has so many unknown factors that it is impossible to prove. Or even substantiate.
No, the big issue is that the evidence goes against it.

Again, some nice simple math exists, for example, calculating the height of the sun using the angle of elevation of the sun at the equinox from the equator and 5000 km north or south of the equator result in the sun being 5000 km above Earth.

And apparently you forgot to add the "s" to law.  It is Gauss' laws. Not law.
Nope. There is one known as Guass' law.
The net electric flux through any hypothetical closed surface is equal to 1/ε times the net electric charge within that closed surface

He almost exclusively studied the effects of Electromagnetism. If you are referring to gravity that is sort of a moot point.
There are then extensions of this law to other fields, including gravity.

I'll shoot you an article specifically using one of Gauss's laws in a FE scenario.
http://www.academia.edu/11774821/An_exercise_on_Gauss_law_for_gravitation_The_Flat_Earth_model
Which is quite similar to what JD already linked.

All I can see is a way to derail the subject of math and the FET. I'm not going to turn this into a argument over the proof of one law.  Gauss' law of gravitation does not prove a FE period.
So?
When was that ever the challenge?

Notice it what it was:
If someone can present me with some math fact regarding FE. I will become a believer today!
Gauss' law for gravity on a FE is a math fact regarding FE.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 01:26:38 PM
No, they're words. I use a few hedging terms in an apparently vain attempt to stop the more bloody-minded users who'd throw a fit at anything else.
You mean that would object to you lying and claiming that FE works and has evidence to back it up, which you are yet to substantiate?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 14, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
Gravity is simply a word we use to hide our ignorance.
But can you deny that masses appear to attract each other
with a force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of distance between them?

But we also say that electric charges attract with a force described by virtually the same relationship.
Are you also going to claim that "electrostatic forces are simply words we use to hide our ignorance."

Do you know the ultimate cause of electrostatic forces any more than you know the ultimate cause of gravitation?
Yes, electrostatic forces can be said to be due to the exchange of "virtual photons", but is that the ultimate cause?
Why not then claim that gravitational forces can be said to be due to the exchange of "virtual gravitons"?

Photons have sufficient energy that they can be detected individually.
Even if gravitons do play a similar role in gravitational forces their energy would be so small that they probably could never be detected individually.

Electrostatic forces have been observed for millennia and measured quite accurately hundreds of years ago.
In the same way, gravitational forces have been observed for millennia and measured quite accurately hundreds of years ago.

Why do you accept the reality of electrostatic forces and reject gravitational forces?

Quote from: John Davis
Do I deny that objects fall at a certain rate, which can be described roughly with a formula?
You say, "can be described roughly with a formula". Please tell us just how roughly?
Would it be within ±10%, ±1%, ±0.1% or maybe even within ±0.0000001%?

Quote from: John Davis
Of course not. We all know things fall.
So, do you have a better explanation?
Apart from air resistance (which is calculable),
     things fall at exactly the same rate in air as in a vacuum - so it's not due to density or buoyancy.

So things fall, I claim that it is due to gravitation, what is your explanation?

And please, not any of the usual flat earthers usual, it might be this, it might be that or it might be something else.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 14, 2017, 01:51:23 PM
If you are going to respond to something make sure to include at least a couple facts in your post. What we see CAN be denied.  We use math to explain what we see/observe. You "know" you breath oxygen because of "theory?" I'm sure glad I don't breathe "theoretical" oxygen. I breathe in the real thing. No one is going to take you seriously if you use words like, "pretty much exactly, how we explain that is up for grabs, once apon a time, silly, maybe, and maybe not. Those are words that are argumentative.
No, they're words. I use a few hedging terms in an apparently vain attempt to stop the more bloody-minded users who'd throw a fit at anything else.
Yep, you breathe in real oxygen, but I would love to hear you define both oxygen and respiration without appealing to theory. And, fun fact, it is incredibly easy to explain and justify respiration without needing to appeal to maths, undercutting your point.


Quote
I haven't seen any explaination why math isn't more prevalent in FET.
Give that there have been several over the course of this thread, that seems to be entirely reflective of you rather than FET. You've had people actually provide maths, and had it explained how the mathematics used in a scientific context is not exactly easy to create, especially with what FEers have to work with. Like I said before:
"Pick something you want the maths for under FET, and then try to figure out how that maths would actually get derived."
If you can't even come up with a method for how what you want could be found, then it's a silly thing to ask for.

Your totally correct, the grey matter all flat earther have to work with is obviously substandard. Case in point look at the irrational claims they make, bioluminescencent moon! Dangerous moonlight! Now that’s hard to beat and no mathematics even required.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 02:09:03 PM
I agree with JackBlack.

Any inverse squared law can be reformulated in a way similar to Gauss' Flux Theorem or what is commonly known as Gauss' law. This leads to Gauss' law of magnetism and of gravity.

I believe the rest of his points stand pretty well too.

Glad that's sorted. I do disagree though that the sum of all nat numbers = -1/12 isn't 'logical' as it follows from logical operations on the series. It also isn't completely irrelevant to 'math that attempts to describe reality' as that is its most recent origins - in string theory. Non-intuitive? Perhaps.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 14, 2017, 02:23:51 PM
I guess I should been more specific and said practical math.  Simple math.  I just am actually more interested in seeing basic data.  It doesn't have to be some drawn out esoteric, complicated, formula that few people can understand.  That's just an open invitation for someone to take you down a rabbit trail. It is the simple things like, how do you calculate the diameter of a flat earth?  How do you calculate the height of the dome?  What formula is used to calculate the distance of the moon and sun?  If the answer is, "we just know". That is just a little thin on the evidence side and boarders on the side of an unsupported belief system. Which is just fine if you want to present it as a belief. 

And here I've derailed my own question!  Shame on me. I just think it would be a lot easier to present FET as a viable alternate theory with a little mathematical calculations to back it up. You can't relying on NASA lies and other conspiracy theories.  This could easily undermine your ability come to logical conclusions, based on facts, to come into question.   
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 14, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
And we now see why flat earthers don't often present mathematics to roundies:
(https://foolforhim.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/fingers-in-ears.jpg)
I really never knew you for having a sense of humour!
Surely you jest when you put flat earthers and mathematics in the same sentence.
Are you not the one who claims that "The walls of tall buildings can be found to be parallel" is evidence against the Globe?

Show some of the mathematics that flat earthers have to present to roundies.

I suppose you could say that Samuel Birley Rowbotham used "mathematics" (if counting squares on graph paper counts) when he made some measurements then "calculated" that height of the sun.

Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham - 1881
Zetetic Astronomy - Earth Not a Globe
CHAPTER V.THE TRUE DISTANCE OF THE SUN.
The distance from London Bridge to the sea-coast at Brighton, in a straight line, is 50 statute miles.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Then measure in the same way the vertical line D, S, and it will be found to be 700 miles. Hence it is demonstrable that the distance of the sun over that part of the earth to which it is vertical is only 700 statute
miles.
Read all about it in ENaG Chapter 5 "THE   TRUE DISTANCE OF THE SUN" (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za23.htm).

Of course, he got a totally ridiculous answer of about 700 miles or 1127 km!

Then Thomas Winship assumes that globularist are telling the truth:
Quote from: Thomas Winship, author of Zetetic Cosmogony
On March 21-22 the sun is directly overhead at the equator
. . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
The distance between the equator and the points at 45 degrees north or south is approximately 3,000 miles. Ergo, the sun would be an equal distance above the equator.

See Zetetic Cosmogony, Thomas Winship (http://www.freepdf.info/index.php?post/Winship-Thomas-Zetetic-cosmogony)
And used "trigonometry" to work out that tan(45°) = 1.00 and get quite a different height of the sun - big deal!

So, I ask again, "Please show some of the mathematics that flat earthers have to present to roundies."

Astronomy and mathematics kill any idea of a flat earth with sun, moon, planets and stars circling above stone dead!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 14, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
how do you calculate the diameter of a flat earth?
Same way you measure any distance. The tricky part's in getting the resources.

Quote
How do you calculate the height of the dome?
I did that for fun with certain models, but you have to make certain assumptions. In models where meteorites fall from the dome, if you assume they will only be slowed by celestial gear systems and not accelerated, you can get a ballpark figure by applying the suvat equations to the fastest known meteors (the Leonids).
But not every FEer will accept that because, as said, it relies on making certain assumptions.

Quote
What formula is used to calculate the distance of the moon and sun?
Most commonly is Eratosphenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun, rather than a round Earth and distance Sun.

Quote
If the answer is, "we just know". That is just a little thin on the evidence side and boarders on the side of an unsupported belief system. Which is just fine if you want to present it as a belief. 
Except it's rare they actually give the figures for this. REers ask for it, typically FEers pop by there's no feasible way to measure a lot of it, and ultimately that's all that really matters. If there's no way to give what you want them to give, regardless of which model you're in, there's no point in asking for it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 14, 2017, 02:32:50 PM
I agree with JackBlack.

Any inverse squared law can be reformulated in a way similar to Gauss' Flux Theorem or what is commonly known as Gauss' law. This leads to Gauss' law of magnetism and of gravity.

I believe the rest of his points stand pretty well too.

Glad that's sorted. I do disagree though that the sum of all nat numbers = -1/12 isn't 'logical' as it follows from logical operations on the series. It also isn't completely irrelevant to 'math that attempts to describe reality' as that is its most recent origins - in string theory. Non-intuitive? Perhaps.
You know string  theory! ... I’m “flabbergasted as it’s  totally at odds with everything you believe in at the most fundemental basic level do you not get it. Have you ever read Feynman. Flat earth has no place in that world man, if you think so, then you really are on the wrong bus. It’s Applications to nuclear physics and condensed matter physics totally blow you out the water to name but two. And as for the implications for quantum gravity in relation to your shadow moon WTF!!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 02:55:14 PM
I guess I should been more specific and said practical math.  Simple math.  I just am actually more interested in seeing basic data.
Basic data is not necessarily math.
For example, something being red, or something dying when in an airtight vessel is basic data.

What formula is used to calculate the distance of the moon and sun?
Already told you that one.
Note that the sun appears directly overhead the equator at the equinox, while appearing at an angle of elevation of 45 degrees 5000 km north or south. That makes a right angle isosceles triangle and means the sun is 5000 km above the equator at the equinox.

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Empirical on December 14, 2017, 03:03:01 PM
I agree with JackBlack.

Any inverse squared law can be reformulated in a way similar to Gauss' Flux Theorem or what is commonly known as Gauss' law. This leads to Gauss' law of magnetism and of gravity.

I believe the rest of his points stand pretty well too.

Glad that's sorted. I do disagree though that the sum of all nat numbers = -1/12 isn't 'logical' as it follows from logical operations on the series. It also isn't completely irrelevant to 'math that attempts to describe reality' as that is its most recent origins - in string theory. Non-intuitive? Perhaps.
The operations are only logical for finding the Ramanujan sum, not the actual sum. The sum of a series is defined as the limit of it's partial sums, you can prove that -1/12 is not the sum.
Assume for contradiction that the limit of the partial sums is -1/12. xn is the partial sum of the first n positive numbers.
Let epsilon=1/24, then there exists an N such that for all n>N, abs(xn+1/12)<1/24, so xn<-1/24<0, but none of the partial sums are negative, contradiction. So the limit of the partial sums is not -1/12, aka the sum is not -1/12
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 14, 2017, 03:05:20 PM
Glad that's sorted. I do disagree though that the sum of all nat numbers = -1/12 isn't 'logical' as it follows from logical operations on the series. It also isn't completely irrelevant to 'math that attempts to describe reality' as that is its most recent origins - in string theory. Non-intuitive? Perhaps.
That all depends on what constitutes logical.
Yes, it follows from apparently logical operations but reaches an apparently contradictory result, at least when compared with other operations.
For example, the sum of any 2 positive numbers is a positive number, which means you should have a positive number at the end.

There are also other operations, for example, if you add 1 to every term and add 1 to the start, you have added an infinite amount of 1s, yet  still end up with the same series which would have the same sum; which requires 1+1+1+1+1=0.
You can then subtract this new series/sum from itself (but shifted once) to obtain 1+0+0+0+0+0+0+0=0.
That ends up with 1=0.
In fact, you can have it shift however much you want and be left with a finite sum of "1"s to be equal to 0.

it is a problem with dealing with infinities, like the old paradox of the hotel.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 14, 2017, 05:05:43 PM
What formula is used to calculate the distance of the moon and sun?
Most commonly is Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun, rather than a round Earth and distance Sun.
And how many dozen more times does it have to be pointed out that
                       "Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun" does not give consistent answers.
The height of the sun, moon or Polaris over a flat earth using "Eratosthenes' method"
                        can give any answer from zero to about 6370 km depending on the spacing of the points.

Yet you, like all flat earthers continue to push the silly idea that these bodies can be around 5000 km above the earth.

On the other hand using "Eratosphenes' method" on the Globe fits perfectly with a distant sun and a circumference of about 40,000 km.

But, flat earthers, and you, seem totally incapable of comprehending such a simple concept.

The most trivial bit of astronomy and a bit of simple math shows that the flat earth model with celestial bodies circling above is totally impossible.
Why do you think the ancient Babylonians, Chinese and Greeks discarded such an idea thousands of years ago?
In some cases this was long before they discarded the idea of a flat earth.

Some ancient Chinese did postulate that there was an earthly plane and a celestial plane where the celestial bodies "circled".
But that idea was discarded in favour of celestial spheres because it could not explain sunrises and sunsets.
And, guess what, modern flat earthers still cannot explain sunrises and sunsets.

And you, Jane, continue to do you best to prop up a long dead horse.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 14, 2017, 05:13:17 PM
And how many dozen more times does it have to be pointed out that
                       "Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun" does not give consistent answers.
Yes, that's a whole other topic and doesn't need to be brought up every single time Eratosphenes gets mentioned. When it gets used as an argument, feel free, when it's an offhand mention to a borderline tangent to explain how FEers do use mathematics to reach conclusions you do not need to bring it up constantly. It is not relevant here. I'm well aware of the issues, I'm just not going to drag them into a very vague mention just like I wouldn't bring up spectroscopy any time there's the slightest mention of the Sun.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 14, 2017, 06:20:34 PM
I guess I should been more specific and said practical math.  Simple math.  I just am actually more interested in seeing basic data.
Thank you, I just gained a bucket or two full of respect for why you are banging about.

And how many dozen more times does it have to be pointed out that
                       "Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun" does not give consistent answers.
Yes, that's a whole other topic and doesn't need to be brought up every single time Eratosphenes gets mentioned. When it gets used as an argument, feel free, when it's an offhand mention to a borderline tangent to explain how FEers do use mathematics to reach conclusions you do not need to bring it up constantly. It is not relevant here. I'm well aware of the issues, I'm just not going to drag them into a very vague mention just like I wouldn't bring up spectroscopy any time there's the slightest mention of the Sun.
You are the best poster on this forum by far. Perhaps I should mention empiricism less, but I feel others are not quite as aware as you.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 14, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
And how many dozen more times does it have to be pointed out that
                       "Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun" does not give consistent answers.
Yes, that's a whole other topic and doesn't need to be brought up every single time Eratosphenes gets mentioned.
And why not?
The "Eratosthenes' experiment might be used by flat earthers, just as the "shadow object" is proposed to explain lunar eclipses.
But both are easily disposed as useful explanations.

I fail to see how you have to keep dragging these things in as if they were possible explanations of occurrences on the flat earth.

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 15, 2017, 02:51:08 AM
And how many dozen more times does it have to be pointed out that
                       "Eratosthenes' experiment assuming a flat Earth and nearby Sun" does not give consistent answers.
Yes, that's a whole other topic and doesn't need to be brought up every single time Eratosphenes gets mentioned. When it gets used as an argument, feel free, when it's an offhand mention to a borderline tangent to explain how FEers do use mathematics to reach conclusions you do not need to bring it up constantly. It is not relevant here. I'm well aware of the issues, I'm just not going to drag them into a very vague mention just like I wouldn't bring up spectroscopy any time there's the slightest mention of the Sun.
The 2 are fundamentally different.
Not every discussion of the sun involves spectroscopy, but Eratosthenes is fundamentally about measuring the angle of elevation of the sun.
It can't be used to determine the height of the sun in an honest manner as it varies drastically depending on where you measure.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 15, 2017, 04:41:00 AM
I fail to see how you have to keep dragging these things in as if they were possible explanations of occurrences on the flat earth.
Because you'd happily butt in and say everything on a FE is impossible and thus prevent any actual discussion and make this site unendingly tedious.
Right now, I don't care if it's possible. I wasn't talking about that. they asked for how a figure is arrived at, I gave the answer, that doesn't mean every FEer holds to the figures (as I also pointed out).

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 15, 2017, 04:46:22 AM
I fail to see how you have to keep dragging these things in as if they were possible explanations of occurrences on the flat earth.
Because you'd happily butt in and say everything on a FE is impossible and thus prevent any actual discussion and make this site unendingly tedious.
Right now, I don't care if it's possible. I wasn't talking about that. they asked for how a figure is arrived at, I gave the answer, that doesn't mean every FEer holds to the figures (as I also pointed out).
And I can point out why their figure is incorrect.

To me, the fact that there are nearly as many FE theories as FEers makes it very likely that no FE theories are true.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 15, 2017, 04:50:33 AM
And I can point out why their figure is incorrect.
Yes, and I bet you can point out why FET is incorrect to, you don't have to do so every damn time FET gets brought up. It's not smart, it's not clever, it's tedious.

Quote
To me, the fact that there are nearly as many FE theories as FEers makes it very likely that no FE theories are true.
Good for you. I don't really care. It doesn't convince anyone when you point that out, it's not interesting to point that out, all in all it's pretty pointless.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 15, 2017, 12:19:03 PM
Because you'd happily butt in and say everything on a FE is impossible and thus prevent any actual discussion and make this site unendingly tedious.
It being possible or not is part of the discussion.
You are the one trying to prevent actual discussion.

they asked for how a figure is arrived at, I gave the answer, that doesn't mean every FEer holds to the figures (as I also pointed out).
And pointing out that by using the same method you can get completely different results is a valid part of the discussion.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 16, 2017, 01:59:39 PM
It almost seems pointless to even start a topic when they almost always end on the same path. The topic starts off on the subject at hand for a little while. Then out comes something that takes the subject off in a direction that ends up being argued that has nothing to do with the original subject. It’s like herding cats!  Sooner or later something that has no basis in fact gets thrown in. The topic of an infinite flat plane pops up. Which starts out with the “assumption” we actually live on an infinite flat plane. And that’s a pretty huge assumption about something that by it’s very nature can not be measured. And has never been measured. And is not even universally accepted among FE. Like something stated earlier, “garbage in garbage out.” If you start out with a false premise. Anything becomes possible. And on it goes.  Sooner or later it’s guaranteed that someone is going call someone else an idiot. Then a little rant takes off. I wonder if a single subject has ever come to an actual conclusion? 
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 16, 2017, 02:16:14 PM
It almost seems pointless to even start a topic when they almost always end on the same path. The topic starts off on the subject at hand for a little while.
Then perhaps you should try a more specific topic rather than just asking for math.
After all, math for an infinite plane Earth is still math.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 16, 2017, 02:54:16 PM
My specific question was, “why is mathematics so uncommon in FET.”  I never once saw the answer to the question, “why is mathematics so uncommon in FET?”  It is not “common”.  I never claimed its doesn’t exist.  It just seems that there is a huge chasm between FE and RE when it comes to math use.  That was the original question. Nothing more. Saying, “hey look I have an equation” doesn’t answer the original question. It is a valid observation that math in FET is not common. That’s not up for debate.  It is not common.

Edit:spelling.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 54N on December 16, 2017, 03:22:24 PM
Surely mathematics has to be avoided at all costs,   as it combined with measurement (also to be avoided!) easily  proves the earth to be approximately spherical.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 16, 2017, 03:27:00 PM
That’s not up for debate.
Then why post in the debate section?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 16, 2017, 03:37:07 PM
It’s a fact is it’s not common. The question and debate is “WHY” isn’t it common. It has nothing to do with the accurate observation that it is not common. The question seems pretty clear.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 16, 2017, 11:34:42 PM
Tesla insinuated that formula ain't match reality but people kept using it.

Sure, accuracy is something extremely expensive. It needs extra stamina to reach it.

Something illogical looks logical because people ain't test it, or test it under wrong assumptions.
Sophism is also prevalent in science.
Presenting complicated explanations n formulas which are basically ...... (what should I call it?)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: suseuser on December 17, 2017, 12:29:13 AM
I couldn’t understand your post. There seems to be a language barrier here. Maybe someone can clarify the information that was presented.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 17, 2017, 01:08:06 AM
1. So many formulas n theories don't meet reality.
2. The sentences "I know the truth" is not recommended coz reality is not that simple.
3. Complicated theories can be a deception tool for common people while its basic is still problematic.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 17, 2017, 01:25:09 AM
Edited: 3. Complicated theories can be a "deception" tool for common people while its basic is still problematic.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 17, 2017, 01:46:26 AM
Tesla insinuated that formula ain't match reality but people kept using it.
I have seen you assert this claim before, but I haven't seen any evidence for it.
What formula are you referring to?

Regardless, he would still be wrong. If it was wrong, it would be public knowledge by now and it would have been replaced.

Something illogical looks logical because people ain't test it, or test it under wrong assumptions.
You mean like you not testing your nonsense math or testing it under the wrong assumptions?

1. So many formulas n theories don't meet reality.
Yes, like the ones you provide.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 17, 2017, 02:28:24 AM
1. By the very basis random theory of gravity, the building of modern physics stands... like a drunk man.
2.
3.
4.
.
.
.
10785307478. Globe map

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 17, 2017, 02:49:53 AM
1. By the very basis random theory of gravity, the building of modern physics stands... like a drunk man.
Except you are unable to show a single thing wrong with it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 17, 2017, 03:12:20 AM
What about 2D ball map?

I can't hear youuu.. ~
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 17, 2017, 03:53:32 AM
What about 2D ball map?

I can't hear youuu.. ~
To make a 2D (or flat) map of the Globe you must use some sort of projection. Didn't you learn that in school?
Provided the area covered is not very large the scale errors are small.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 17, 2017, 04:32:39 AM
1. On that map, draw a line of ½ of earth C, (Latin America to South East Asia) then times it with 2/phew=Diameter
2. Look at the north: Asia, Europe, North America
3. Woow.... So HUGE...!! The ball can't afford to let 'em in. :D
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 17, 2017, 12:05:37 PM
What about 2D ball map?
Do you mean a globe?
If so, that matches reality quite well.


I can't hear youuu.. ~
You mean you are ignoring people that show you are wrong?

1. On that map, draw a line of ½ of earth C, (Latin America to South East Asia) then times it with 2/phew=Diameter
Your "phew" is pure bullshit.
We have been over this repeatedly.

2. Look at the north: Asia, Europe, North America
3. Woow.... So HUGE...!! The ball can't afford to let 'em in. :D
No, it can, quite easily.
Look at the south, so much water.

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 17, 2017, 02:59:50 PM
Tesla insinuated that formula ain't match reality but people kept using it.
1) I have no idea what "formula ain't match reality" you are talking about.
2) "insinuated" is nothing like proving "that formula ain't match reality".

But, you might like to know that Tesla did not believe the earth to be flat or stationary!

Read:
                      HOW COSMIC FORCES SHAPE OUR DESTINIES, ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake") by Nikola Tesla (http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1915-02-07.htm)
also at — How Cosmic Forces Shape Our Destinies — ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake"), New York American, February 7, 1915 (https://www.pbs.org/tesla/res/res_art10.html)  in which he states:
Quote from: Nicola Tesla
NATURAL FORCES INFLUENCE US
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Accepting all this as true let us consider some of the forces and influences which act on such a wonderfully complex automatic engine with organs inconceivably sensitive and delicate, as it is carried by the spinning terrestrial globe in lightning flight through space. For the sake of simplicity we may assume that the earth's axis is perpendicular to the ecliptic and that the human automaton is at the equator. Let his weight be one hundred and sixty pounds then, at the rotational velocity of about 1,520 feet per second with which he is whirled around, the mechanical energy stored in his body will be nearly 5,780,000 foot pounds, which is about the energy of a hundred-pound cannon ball.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The sun, having a mass 332,000 times that of the earth, but being 23,000 times farther, will attract the automaton with a force of about one-tenth of one pound, alternately increasing and diminishing his normal weight by that amount

Though not conscious of these periodic changes, he is surely affected by them.

The earth in its rotation around the sun carries him with the prodigious speed of nineteen miles per second . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From the above address.
Sure, Nicola Tesla had a lot of "different ideas", but he most certainly did not believe in a flat stationary earth.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: inquisitive on December 17, 2017, 03:30:46 PM
I guess I should been more specific and said practical math.  Simple math.  I just am actually more interested in seeing basic data.
Basic data is not necessarily math.
For example, something being red, or something dying when in an airtight vessel is basic data.

What formula is used to calculate the distance of the moon and sun?
Already told you that one.
Note that the sun appears directly overhead the equator at the equinox, while appearing at an angle of elevation of 45 degrees 5000 km north or south. That makes a right angle isosceles triangle and means the sun is 5000 km above the equator at the equinox.
Wnat is the angle at 2500km?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 17, 2017, 11:50:30 PM
Wnat is the angle at 2500km?
In reality or based upon the FE model?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 18, 2017, 04:51:19 PM
Did Rab delete the globe map images.
Or those images ain't here actually?

So now I am accusing him having deleted those images coz he was afraid of crititism over those maps. :)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 18, 2017, 05:50:05 PM
Did Rab delete the globe map images.
Or those images ain't here actually?
What globe images am I supposed to have deleted? I'll post hundreds of Globe images if you want!
Here's link to a recent post with a few Globe images, Flat Earth General / Re: One Film Photo, Every Day, of the Entire Earth from Space « on: Today at 08:51:46 AM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73561.msg1998795#msg1998795)
How many more do you want?

Quote from: Danang
So now I am accusing him having deleted those images coz he was afraid of crititism over those maps. :)
I'm not afraid of any criticism over any maps! Here's those map projections of the Globe again:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Here are a few:
(http://ahasanulhoque.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/map-projections-u1-1024x537.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Map-projections-net-comparison-1.png)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
;D Now, what are you accusing me of deleting?  ;D
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 18, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
Did Rab delete the globe map images.
Or those images ain't here actually?

So now I am accusing him having deleted those images coz he was afraid of crititism over those maps. :)
Understand they are projections of the globe.
As such they will have some distortions.

So if you are going to criticise them, make sure you understand the distortions induced by the projection.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 19, 2017, 02:54:40 PM
Did Rab delete the globe map images.
Or those images ain't here actually?
What globe images am I supposed to have deleted? I'll post hundreds of Globe images if you want!
Here's link to a recent post with a few Globe images, Flat Earth General / Re: One Film Photo, Every Day, of the Entire Earth from Space « on: Today at 08:51:46 AM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73561.msg1998795#msg1998795)
How many more do you want?

Quote from: Danang
So now I am accusing him having deleted those images coz he was afraid of crititism over those maps. :)
I'm not afraid of any criticism over any maps! Here's those map projections of the Globe again:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Here are a few:
(http://ahasanulhoque.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/map-projections-u1-1024x537.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Map-projections-net-comparison-1.png)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
;D Now, what are you accusing me of deleting?  ;D

By deleting that post, you made my day, Jack. So hilarous  ;D
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 19, 2017, 02:59:31 PM
Did Rab delete the globe map images.
Or those images ain't here actually?

So now I am accusing him having deleted those images coz he was afraid of crititism over those maps. :)
Understand they are projections of the globe.
As such they will have some distortions.

So if you are going to criticise them, make sure you understand the distortions induced by the projection.

Skip about projection stuff, Rab. Stick to reality. Don't change the scale of supposedly globe round map.

Errr.... is it round, or oblate spheroid, or pear chubby shaped?

Wt...
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 19, 2017, 05:40:49 PM
By deleting that post, you made my day, Jack. So hilarous  ;D
Where did he delete it?
And why do you keep calling him Jack.
The post is still there for everyone to see.

Skip about projection stuff, Rab. Stick to reality. Don't change the scale of supposedly globe round map.
So skip the key bits of information which show why your likely criticisms would be crap?

Don't you understand?
Projections of a globe onto a flat surface will result in distortions. There will not be single scale across the entire map.
you can have some scales remain the same, such as the distance from the centre (or distance along lines running through the centre), but other distances will be out of scale.
And why call me Rab?

Errr.... is it round, or oblate spheroid, or pear chubby shaped?
It is an imperfect, round, oblate spheroid.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 20, 2017, 04:45:10 AM
Okay I'll call you Jack as before.  8)

Nahhh... Even for the shape of the earth there is no picture evidence. All is CGI with orange shape.

For people with sophisticated technology, that stuff should be a piece of cake.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 20, 2017, 04:50:26 AM
Even enlarged lands at north hemisplane is not large enough to resemble the reality.

This is the suffering side if the flat reality is changed into spherical one.

Contradiction is inevitable.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Danang on December 20, 2017, 04:55:17 AM
Flight information is also a joke.
Time Zone information will reveal their fake distances claim.
The duration of the flight frequently ain't match with the distance they told.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 11:34:04 AM
Okay I'll call you Jack as before.  8)

Nahhh... Even for the shape of the earth there is no picture evidence. All is CGI with orange shape.

For people with sophisticated technology, that stuff should be a piece of cake.
And this is the problem with people like you, you just dismiss the evidence as fake.

There are mountains of evidence for a round Earth. The evidence is not just pictures of Earth from space.
There is also pictures from on Earth, showing a horizon with objects obscured by the horizon.
There is the apparent size and position of the sun and the other stars.
There is the fact that we have 2 celestial poles, always 180 degrees apart.
The list goes on.

Meanwhile there is not a scrap of evidence for a flat Earth.

Even enlarged lands at north hemisplane is not large enough to resemble the reality.

This is the suffering side if the flat reality is changed into spherical one.

Contradiction is inevitable.
And all we have to support this are your baseless claims.
DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE???
If not, shut up.
So far all the evidence points to Earth being round and the lands being as large as they are shown on the globe.

Flight information is also a joke.
Time Zone information will reveal their fake distances claim.
The duration of the flight frequently ain't match with the distance they told.
Nope.
Using time zones to determine distance is a joke; they are significantly influenced by politics with several locations having unnatural time zones.
Especially when trying to determine the shape of Earth.

Based upon a 24 hour day, each "natural" time zone will be roughly 15 degrees.
Notice how this is an angle, not a linear measurement?

At the centre of a hypothetical FE, this corresponds to 0 km.
At the edge (20 000 km away from the centre) it corresponds to ~5000 km.

At the poles of the real RE, this corresponds to 0 km.
At the equator it corresponds to roughly 1666 km.

Flight times, as inaccurate as the are, are far better at determining distances.
Do you know why?
Because unlike time zones, which are based upon angles, flight times are based significantly upon distance.

But it isn't just flight times. People have driven across these lands noting the time zone changes and the distances.

It doesn't match your delusional map, but it does match the globe.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 11:43:37 AM
There are mountains of evidence for a round Earth.

Show us.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 12:12:15 PM
There are mountains of evidence for a round Earth.
Show us.
Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE, or read the list I provided.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 12:18:08 PM
Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE

Sounds like a waste of time.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 12:44:14 PM
Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE

Sounds like a waste of time.
Right, because you already know of all this evidence and choose wilful ignorance/bury your head in the sand.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE

Sounds like a waste of time.
Right, because you already know of all this evidence and choose wilful ignorance/bury your head in the sand.

Or because someone that claims to have it, you, is already right here and refuses to present it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 20, 2017, 12:46:42 PM
Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE

Sounds like a waste of time.
Right, because you already know of all this evidence and choose wilful ignorance/bury your head in the sand.
Presumably, this is a reference to ostriches. In actuality, ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand but instead use their long necks to survey the surrounding landscape.

Perhaps you should start a new thread asking for evidence for a RE

Sounds like a waste of time.
Right, because you already know of all this evidence and choose wilful ignorance/bury your head in the sand.

Or because someone that claims to have it, you, is already right here and refuses to present it.
You might as well get used to this from Jack; that or him proving a strawman incorrect then insisting it proves your theories wrong in spite of himself being self admittedly ignorant concerning them.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 12:48:08 PM
THE MODS HAVE SPOKEN!

ANOTHER VICTORY FOR FE!!!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 12:49:15 PM
Or because someone that claims to have it, you, is already right here and refuses to present it.
Because it is not relevant to the topic.

But this does seem to be a common trend with lots of FEers; rather than deal with the inadequacies of FE models, they want to deflect and try and discuss RE models and evidence for them even though they just ignore the evidence presented.

You might as well get used to this from Jack; that or him proving a strawman incorrect then insisting it proves your theories wrong in spite of himself being self admittedly ignorant concerning them.
Projecting again I see.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 12:55:12 PM
Because it is not relevant to the topic.

Facts are not relevant? Then why did you even mention them?

Clearly if you're abandoning reason so brazenly, this debate has already concluded in FE's favor. Thanks for playing.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 01:09:58 PM
Because it is not relevant to the topic.
Facts are not relevant? Then why did you even mention them?
Not all facts are relevant. For example, it is a fact that bulls excrete matter in the form of shit. Is that in any way relevant? NO.

They were briefly mentioned due to him claiming there is no picture evidence for Earth being round.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 01:32:46 PM
Because it is not relevant to the topic.
Facts are not relevant? Then why did you even mention them?
Not all facts are relevant. For example, it is a fact that bulls excrete matter in the form of shit. Is that in any way relevant? NO.

They were briefly mentioned due to him claiming there is no picture evidence for Earth being round.

Please don't derail topics again
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 01:36:18 PM
Please don't derail topics again
Says the one that was trying to derail them.

Now how about you address the OP and provide some math for a FE?

Or should I, and then compare it with reality and see if they match?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 01:37:28 PM
Now how about you address the OP and provide some math for a FE?

Read the FAQ
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 01:47:25 PM
Now how about you address the OP and provide some math for a FE?

Read the FAQ
So that's a no. You have no math for FE, likely because you know it shows a FE to be garbage.

Here is an example of math for a FE, using the common FE map: Note: 0 degrees is an example, due to rotational symmetry the same is true for any longitude.
On the equinox, at roughly 6 am (solar time) for people at 0 degrees, east/west, the sun is directly overhead the equator at 90 degrees east.
This would mean the apparent direction to the sun (ignoring elevation) would be NE (i.e. a bearing of 45 degrees) for a person on the equator at 0 degrees east/west.
As you move further north, it would drift towards the east, only reaching ~due east just before the north pole.
As you move further south, the sun would drift further north.
For a given distance d away from the north pole (along 0 degrees east) the sun would appear at a bearing given by:
tan(a)=10000 km/d

So at the southern tip of Chile, some 16 000 km away from the north pole, it should be tan(a)=10/16, and thus a=32 degrees. So it should be north of north east.

Instead, the sun appears roughly due east.

We can also do this the other way to determine how far away the sun is from the north pole (x). Assuming a 1 degree error (to be nice, and meaning we get an underestimate) the sun is off at a bearing of 89 degrees.
Thus, tan(89 deg)=x/16000
Thus x~=915 000 km.
This puts it well outside the range of a FE.

This simple math shows the common FE model to be impossible.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 01:50:27 PM
On the equinox, at roughly 6 am (solar time) for people at 0 degrees, east/west, the sun is directly overhead the equator at 90 degrees east.

As they drown in the south Atlantic ocean. Please, you can't even get a sentence in without having HUGE flaws in your reasoning.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 01:51:46 PM
On the equinox, at roughly 6 am (solar time) for people at 0 degrees, east/west, the sun is directly overhead the equator at 90 degrees east.

As they drown in the south Atlantic ocean. Please, you can't even get a sentence in without having HUGE flaws in your reasoning.
Why would they be drowning?
I see you are projecting again.
Perhaps you can try and address the issue raised?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 01:53:11 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 02:00:48 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Ever heard of a boat.
Regardless, the same applies at any longitude due to rotational symmetry.
The angle to the sun on the equinox shows the sun must be very distant, much further away than the size of Earth.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 02:04:02 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Ever heard of a boat.

If you meant to say a boat, then just say a boat. But you never mentioned a boat - leaving everyone here to assume you were talking about sea people.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 02:07:19 PM
If you meant to say a boat, then just say a boat. But you never mentioned a boat - leaving everyone here to assume you were talking about sea people.
Or that I was discussing the general case by using a specific longitude as an example.

Now then, care to explain why this math shows the sun to be so far away from Earth?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 02:25:08 PM

Or that I was discussing the general case by using a specific longitude as an example.

Now then, care to explain why this math shows the sun to be so far away from Earth?

Read the FAQ
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 20, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Holy shit, the People of Equador, Columbia, Brazil, Gabon, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Kenya, Somalia, Indonesia, and numerous other islands are all under the Atlantic ocean?  WTF are you smoking
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 03:08:02 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Holy shit, the People of Equador, Columbia, Brazil, Gabon, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Kenya, Somalia, Indonesia, and numerous other islands are all under the Atlantic ocean?  WTF are you smoking

They are at 0 degrees longitude?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 20, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Holy shit, the People of Equador, Columbia, Brazil, Gabon, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Kenya, Somalia, Indonesia, and numerous other islands are all under the Atlantic ocean?  WTF are you smoking

They are at 0 degrees longitude?
That is not what you said.  Longitude was not mentioned by you.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 03:14:12 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?

Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Holy shit, the People of Equador, Columbia, Brazil, Gabon, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Kenya, Somalia, Indonesia, and numerous other islands are all under the Atlantic ocean?  WTF are you smoking

They are at 0 degrees longitude?
That is not what you said.  Longitude was not mentioned by you.

Reread the thread. In fact, go read the FAQ while you're at it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 20, 2017, 03:19:07 PM
No I read the thread, he was choosing a set longitude, yet you felt you could make him look dumb by bringing that up, but you were too stupid to include longitude in your response.  So I just returned the favor to show how moronic you really are.  If you cannot argue against the points made, and insist on going for the immediate insults, then maybe you should rethink your life and stop wasting oxygen.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 20, 2017, 03:22:47 PM
No I read the thread, he was choosing a set longitude, yet you felt you could make him look dumb by bringing that up, but you were too stupid to include longitude in your response.  So I just returned the favor to show how moronic you really are.  If you cannot argue against the points made, and insist on going for the immediate insults, then maybe you should rethink your life and stop wasting oxygen.

This is your final warning - do not disrespect the moderators of these forums. Thank you.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 20, 2017, 05:29:52 PM
Or that I was discussing the general case by using a specific longitude as an example.
Now then, care to explain why this math shows the sun to be so far away from Earth?
Read the FAQ
So no answer.
I take it that means you admit FE is fundamentally flawed.
If you don't, then explain how this simple math shows the sun to be so far from Earth.


This is your final warning - do not disrespect the moderators of these forums. Thank you.
There is no evidence you are a mod, and he is giving you far more respect than you deserve.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 20, 2017, 08:21:11 PM
0deg at the equator is in the Atlantic ocean. What people are you talking about?
Is RET about to suggest a race of sea people?
Dimwit! Quito is almost at 0o, 0.1807o S to be a bit more precise.

As JackBlack  said, "This simple math shows the common FE model to be impossible."

Have you finally worked it out?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 20, 2017, 08:23:38 PM
This is your final warning - do not disrespect the moderators of these forums. Thank you.
If you want respect, you'll have to earn it and trying to mislead everybody certainly does not do that..
Username   Position  Date Registered   Posts
 narcberry.                       2007-03-20.        5436

Mr Narcberry you'd better contact John Davis, he must have forgotten to note that you were a moderator.

Of course you wouldn't have been trying to pull the wool over our eyes, would you? Not you!
I never did believe a word you said,  now I know for sure that you try to deceive us.

Bye bye, spinner of fairy-tales an other tall stories.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 21, 2017, 08:00:07 AM
I'm an emeritus moderator
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 21, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
I'm an emeritus moderator
In other words, a moderator who was expelled for malpractice - sounds possible.
I suspect that malpractice was simply that Mr Narcberry and facts don't even have a nodding relationship.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 21, 2017, 08:35:18 PM
No I read the thread, he was choosing a set longitude, yet you felt you could make him look dumb by bringing that up, but you were too stupid to include longitude in your response.  So I just returned the favor to show how moronic you really are.  If you cannot argue against the points made, and insist on going for the immediate insults, then maybe you should rethink your life and stop wasting oxygen.

This is your final warning - do not disrespect the moderators of these forums. Thank you.
Too funny junior.  Prove your awesome power sir.  Oh wait, nvm, you are just special.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 21, 2017, 08:40:03 PM
I'm an emeritus moderator
In other words, a moderator who was expelled for malpractice - sounds possible.
I suspect that malpractice was simply that Mr Narcberry and facts don't even have a nodding relationship.
Rab, you remember those little guys in the school yard who would tell how their dad could beat up your dad, or made up stories of how special they were?  You know, the ones who had a low self esteem problems, perhaps penis envy or possibly mental abuse at home.  I still feel sorry for those little guys.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 21, 2017, 08:41:26 PM
Is that enough disrespect little guy... uhh I mean Mr. big important moderator? 

Again, stop waiting my oxygen.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 21, 2017, 10:01:26 PM
I'm an emeritus moderator
In other words, a moderator who was expelled for malpractice - sounds possible.
I suspect that malpractice was simply that Mr Narcberry and facts don't even have a nodding relationship.
Rab, you remember those little guys in the school yard who would tell how their dad could beat up your dad, or made up stories of how special they were?  You know, the ones who had a low self esteem problems, perhaps penis envy or possibly mental abuse at home.  I still feel sorry for those little guys.
Yes, the "desire to be unique is important for these little guys with low self esteem problems".
It often shows itself in the belief in one or more irrational conspiracies and there's no denying that the flat earth belief is totally dependent on a Global conspiracy.  Here's a recent paper on this topic,
Studies find the need to feel unique is linked to belief in conspiracy theories, ERIC W. DOLAN, August 8, 2017. (http://www.psypost.org/2017/08/studies-find-need-feel-unique-linked-belief-conspiracy-theories-49444)

But, please don't discourage, narcberry, he's the Globe's 2nd best friend. I just can't work out whether he's a very smart "undercover agent" or a deluded flat earther.

You can work out which "brother" is the Globe's best friend, though there's no doubt that he's just a member of the "Brotherhood of the Deluded".
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 22, 2017, 07:45:04 AM
stop waiting my oxygen.

I don't even understand what you guys are trying to say
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 22, 2017, 09:34:25 AM
I'm an emeritus moderator

Who again has lost his full stop, or do you have more to add?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 22, 2017, 09:37:12 AM
I'm an emeritus moderator

Who again has lost his full stop, or do you have more to add?

Nightsky, this is your final warning. Do not insult the moderators of these forums.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 22, 2017, 09:38:26 AM
I'm an emeritus moderator

Who again has lost his full stop, or do you have more to add?

Nightsky, this is your final warning. Do not insult the moderators of these forums.
Did you or did you not loose your full stop? Let’s stick to the facts.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 22, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Did you or did you not loose your full stop?
What are you trying to say here? This is complete nonsense.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 22, 2017, 09:42:29 AM
Did you or did you not loose your full stop?
What are you trying to say here? This is complete nonsense.

It’s about punctuation John, not sure you would understand.  Case of the missing full stop

See what I mean
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 22, 2017, 10:00:19 AM
Did you or did you not loose your full stop?
What are you trying to say here? This is complete nonsense.

It’s about punctuation John, not sure you would understand.  Case of the missing full stop

See what I mean

Please don't spam the boards with your inane ramblings
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 22, 2017, 10:01:19 AM
Did you or did you not loose your full stop?
What are you trying to say here? This is complete nonsense.

It’s about punctuation John, not sure you would understand.  Case of the missing full stop

See what I mean
You are most correct, I do not understand this gibberish. Please explain to me how I can loose punctuation.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 22, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
Please don't spam the boards with your inane ramblings
That applies to you as well.

Now how about you try to address the issues with the math showing the common FE model is wrong?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 22, 2017, 02:35:31 PM
There is no math that shows the FE model is wrong, unless you are talking about the strawman FE you tried to knock down.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 22, 2017, 02:49:38 PM
There is no math that shows the FE model is wrong, unless you are talking about the strawman FE you tried to knock down.
There is plenty and I have provided plenty.

If you think it is wrong, explain why, don't just dismiss it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 22, 2017, 04:32:09 PM
Did you or did you not loose your full stop?
What are you trying to say here? This is complete nonsense.

It’s about punctuation John, not sure you would understand.  Case of the missing full stop

See what I mean

Please don't spam the boards with your inane ramblings
You are a funny little guy.  Very inconsequential, but funny just the same.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 22, 2017, 08:45:22 PM
There is no math that shows the FE model is wrong, unless you are talking about the strawman FE you tried to knock down.
There is plenty and I have provided plenty.

If you think it is wrong, explain why, don't just dismiss it.
John won't explain, he doesn't actually believe in Flat Earth.  The proof is in how half assed his objections have gotten to at this point. 
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 41317 on December 23, 2017, 12:53:08 PM
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why. There are countless articles written on math, and the math used to predict such things as eclipses, but no one on this forum has the skill to read or fully comprehend them. They don't give us any truth, they give us the semblance of it.
Truth cannot exist without understanding.

Joe
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 23, 2017, 01:09:44 PM
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why. There are countless articles written on math, and the math used to predict such things as eclipses, but no one on this forum has the skill to read or fully comprehend them. They don't give us any truth, they give us the semblance of it.
Truth cannot exist without understanding.

Joe
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 41317 on December 23, 2017, 01:30:59 PM
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why. There are countless articles written on math, and the math used to predict such things as eclipses, but no one on this forum has the skill to read or fully comprehend them. They don't give us any truth, they give us the semblance of it.
Truth cannot exist without understanding.

Joe
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.

Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?

Joe
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 23, 2017, 01:58:50 PM
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?
And there you go making assumptions again.
Who said I can't understand?
I said you not being able to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.

Some people have the ability to learn so they can understand it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 41317 on December 23, 2017, 03:05:26 PM
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?
And there you go making assumptions again.
Who said I can't understand?
I said you not being able to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.

Some people have the ability to learn so they can understand it.

I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.

Joe
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 23, 2017, 04:08:01 PM
I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.
No, it is a means of distinguishing a functional model with predictive power from a broken model which does not match reality.

Regardless, that is not the only math there is. There is much simpler math, which almost everyone could understand. It matches reality for a RE, but not for a FE.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 23, 2017, 04:13:42 PM
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?
And there you go making assumptions again.
Who said I can't understand?
I said you not being able to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.

Some people have the ability to learn so they can understand it.

I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.

Joe

That's rather bold.  Assuming the majority of people are just as incompetent at math as FE people are.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 41317 on December 23, 2017, 05:26:40 PM
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?
And there you go making assumptions again.
Who said I can't understand?
I said you not being able to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.

Some people have the ability to learn so they can understand it.

I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.

Joe

That's rather bold.  Assuming the majority of people are just as incompetent at math as FE people are.

It isn't incompetence, very few people in the world could look at the math and get a proper understanding of what happens. Math isn't meant to be an explanation. Even if perception could be brought down to the level of mere numbers, what would you gain from reading the sums that words couldn't give you?

Joe
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 41317 on December 23, 2017, 05:27:58 PM
I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.
No, it is a means of distinguishing a functional model with predictive power from a broken model which does not match reality.

Regardless, that is not the only math there is. There is much simpler math, which almost everyone could understand. It matches reality for a RE, but not for a FE.
How could you determine which works and which fails without a full understanding?
The math necessary to model reality is never simple.

Joe
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 23, 2017, 05:44:16 PM
It isn't incompetence, very few people in the world could look at the math and get a proper understanding of what happens. Math isn't meant to be an explanation. Even if perception could be brought down to the level of mere numbers, what would you gain from reading the sums that words couldn't give you?
A quantitative understanding, a tool which you can use to measure the validity of a model, by making explicit numerical predictions and comparing them to reality.

How could you determine which works and which fails without a full understanding?
Not everyone would be able to understand it, but some could. Just because some people can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't real.

Also remember that math is not only numbers, it is also other concepts like geometry.

The math necessary to model reality is never simple.
That depends vastly on what level of accuracy you are going for.

One is measuring the circumference of Earth based upon a distant sun and round Earth vs measuring the height of the sun based upon a near sun and flat Earth.
Both will be limited by the accuracy of measurements and slight issues with refraction, however there is very simple math which can be used.

For a round Earth you use the different in angle to determine how far around Earth you are, and the distance between the 2 points to determine the total circumference.
For a FE you use 1 or 2 right angle triangles and simple trig to determine the height.

This is simple math that almost anyone can understand.
Guess which one matches reality when you have multiple measurement points?
The RE math. It returns a consistent answer.
The FE math fails spectacularly.

Then there are other times where the math to understand reality is complex, but the math to understand a FE is quite simple, such as the bearing to the sun.
Again, FE fails to match reality, while RE matches quite well.

Some more simple math is regarding eclipses, not their timing but their apparence.
In order to have an annular eclipse (which happens in reality), the moon needs to be smaller than the sun.
In order to have a total eclipse which is larger than the moon, the moon needs to be larger than the sun.
In the FE model, the moon and sun are both tiny. roughly 30 miles across if I recall correctly. Yet there are total solar eclipses which are much larger.
Again, this shows the FE model to be false.

This provides a measure between the 2 models which shows RE models match reality while FE models do not. This allows us to rationally conclude that Earth is almost certainly round, and that these FE models are false, i.e. they are not accurate representations of reality.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 23, 2017, 05:46:03 PM
Mathmatics is so Uncommon in the Heliocentric Theory that it is completely non-existent!

There is considerable Mathematics involved in a detailed description, but little is needed for a qualitative explanation.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Mikey T. on December 23, 2017, 06:48:51 PM
You being unable to comprehend the math doesn't make it any less of a truth.
It can also be said the other way, you cannot truly understand something unless you understand the math involved in predicting it.
Why do you want something you could not understand? What is the benefit in that?
And there you go making assumptions again.
Who said I can't understand?
I said you not being able to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong.

Some people have the ability to learn so they can understand it.

I was speaking generally. Why would you ask for something the majority of people, and likely all users of this site, could not understand?
It is a means of feeling superior, not of gaining comprehension.

Joe

That's rather bold.  Assuming the majority of people are just as incompetent at math as FE people are.

It isn't incompetence, very few people in the world could look at the math and get a proper understanding of what happens. Math isn't meant to be an explanation. Even if perception could be brought down to the level of mere numbers, what would you gain from reading the sums that words couldn't give you?

Joe
Perhaps I underestimate my own ability, and all four of my children's ability, and pretty much everyone else's ability in my immediate circle.  Perhaps I am looking at the rest of humanity through rose tinted glasses and I assume they are smarter than that.  Which is rather sad, considering I think most people are dumbasses.
 
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 26, 2017, 07:29:34 AM
Mathmatics is so Uncommon in the Heliocentric Theory that it is completely non-existent!

There is considerable Mathematics involved in a detailed description, but little is needed for a qualitative explanation.

Read the FAQ
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 26, 2017, 12:12:12 PM
Mathmatics is so Uncommon in the Heliocentric Theory that it is completely non-existent!

There is considerable Mathematics involved in a detailed description, but little is needed for a qualitative explanation.

Read the FAQ
We have, now how about you address the issue?
The issue is how uncommon math is in FE models, and how math used from these models with the results compared to reality shows the models to be incorrect.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 26, 2017, 12:17:28 PM
Mathmatics is so Uncommon in the Heliocentric Theory that it is completely non-existent!

There is considerable Mathematics involved in a detailed description, but little is needed for a qualitative explanation.

Read the FAQ
We have, now how about you address the issue?
The issue is how uncommon math is in FE models, and how math used from these models with the results compared to reality shows the models to be incorrect.

Care to give an example of your claim?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 26, 2017, 12:27:10 PM
Care to give an example of your claim?
I have already provided them in this thread. At least one of which you have already responded to, with you being completely unable to show a problem.

Here one is again:
Here is an example of math for a FE, using the common FE map: Note: 0 degrees is an example, due to rotational symmetry the same is true for any longitude.
On the equinox, at roughly 6 am (solar time) for people at 0 degrees, east/west, the sun is directly overhead the equator at 90 degrees east.
This would mean the apparent direction to the sun (ignoring elevation) would be NE (i.e. a bearing of 45 degrees) for a person on the equator at 0 degrees east/west.
As you move further north, it would drift towards the east, only reaching ~due east just before the north pole.
As you move further south, the sun would drift further north.
For a given distance d away from the north pole (along 0 degrees east) the sun would appear at a bearing given by:
tan(a)=10000 km/d

So at the southern tip of Chile, some 16 000 km away from the north pole, it should be tan(a)=10/16, and thus a=32 degrees. So it should be north of north east.

Instead, the sun appears roughly due east.

We can also do this the other way to determine how far away the sun is from the north pole (x). Assuming a 1 degree error (to be nice, and meaning we get an underestimate) the sun is off at a bearing of 89 degrees.
Thus, tan(89 deg)=x/16000
Thus x~=915 000 km.
This puts it well outside the range of a FE.

This simple math shows the common FE model to be impossible.
Now are you going to offer anything constructive or just more crap.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 26, 2017, 12:38:24 PM
Oh yeah, you were talking about sea people inventing boats. I remember now.

Your first error is assuming rotational symmetry. Try again.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 26, 2017, 12:52:41 PM
Oh yeah, you were talking about sea people inventing boats. I remember now.

Your first error is assuming rotational symmetry. Try again.
No, I was talking about the direction to the sun on the equinox.
As you know this destroys the FE model, you attempt to pathetically deflect to whatever else you can to avoid admitting it destroys your pathetic FE model.

Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?
The sun allegedly follows a circular path centred on the North Pole, with that circular path having the radius change depending on time of year.

As this is a circular path, it has rotational symmetry.

Try again.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: narcberry on December 26, 2017, 01:01:50 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on December 26, 2017, 03:25:41 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.

Where is your evidence that it's anything like a disc or an ellipse, rather than (for example) square or pentagonal?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 26, 2017, 04:41:13 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.
You are really ignorant of the writings in your Sacred Texts! Read, learn and inwardly digest this:
Quote from: Dr Samuel Birley Rowbotham
CHAPTER XI.
CAUSE OF SOLAR AND LUNAR ECLIPSES.

A SOLAR eclipse is the result simply of the moon passing between the sun and the observer on earth. But that an eclipse of the moon arises from a shadow of the earth, is a statement in every respect, because unproved, unsatisfactory. The earth has been proved to be without orbital or axial motion; and, therefore, it could never come between the sun and the moon.
So Mr Narcberry, if you claim that your flat "disc . . (has) . . rotation" you are a heretic and a traitor to your cause!

So where is there some evidence or measurement of the ellipticity of the flat earth that shows when it rotates?

Or is it to be found in:
All the important fairy tales on the Flatish Earth Hypothethes (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21146.0)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 26, 2017, 06:25:58 PM
Mathmatics is so Uncommon in the Heliocentric Theory that it is completely non-existent!

There is considerable Mathematics involved in a detailed description, but little is needed for a qualitative explanation.
Read the FAQ
Why?
I can get all the fiction I need about FET from:
Everything that's ridiculous about FET (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21146.0)

PS Is there ANY Mathmatics in FET? - I insist that there is none at all, so there put that in you pipe and smoke it!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 26, 2017, 07:43:04 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.
Go and read what I said and respond to that, rather than just repeatedly ignoring/avoiding the issue.

The simple fact is that on the equinox, the sun is observed to rise from roughly due east and set roughly due west, while being above some point on the equator. This would be impossible on a flat Earth.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 26, 2017, 07:56:08 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.
Go and read what I said and respond to that, rather than just repeatedly ignoring/avoiding the issue.

The simple fact is that on the equinox, the sun is observed to rise from roughly due east and set roughly due west, while being above some point on the equator. This would be impossible on a flat Earth.

Here's another one that would be impossible on a flat earth:

Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 27, 2017, 08:45:44 AM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 9111315 on December 27, 2017, 09:11:54 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/21qze7.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/21qze7)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 27, 2017, 12:12:18 PM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Meanwhile you provide nothing to back it up, and people have objected to it and explained why it is wrong.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: markjo on December 27, 2017, 02:09:01 PM
Why is it an error to assume rotational symmetry?

The earth is not a perfect disc, there is an elliptical nature to it's rotation.
Interesting.  I thought that it was generally accepted that the flat earth does not rotate at all, let alone elliptically.  Please describe this elliptical nature.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Username on December 27, 2017, 09:58:18 PM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Meanwhile you provide nothing to back it up, and people have objected to it and explained why it is wrong.
I have not, but the cited book has. Take of it what you will, but get off my back. Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import. Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 28, 2017, 12:31:17 AM
There is no math that shows the FE model is wrong, unless you are talking about the strawman FE you tried to knock down.

I think the simple calculation that gives the diameter of the earth shoots you down sir. The problem with you John is just because you wish to live with your head in a bucket and ignore reality, you mustn’t expect other people to do this nor take you seriously. That the the earth is a sphere is a fact, while it’s a fact for some strange reason you don’t like, does not change anything.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 28, 2017, 12:36:35 AM
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why. There are countless articles written on math, and the math used to predict such things as eclipses, but no one on this forum has the skill to read or fully comprehend them. They don't give us any truth, they give us the semblance of it.
Truth cannot exist without understanding.

Joe

You obviously have no understanding of mathematics . Mathematics cares not a jot about inferiority or superiority as they are your invented fictions.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 28, 2017, 01:27:22 AM
I have not, but the cited book has.
That is just your claim, until you back it up with something substantial, I will dismiss it as crap.

Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import.
Yet you have been unable to point out anything wrong with my explanation and instead make a pathetic appeal to some book.

Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.
PROVE IT!
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 28, 2017, 02:17:41 AM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Why do you spend so much time trying to do no more than show how smart you are?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 28, 2017, 02:59:10 AM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Meanwhile you provide nothing to back it up, and people have objected to it and explained why it is wrong.
I have not, but the cited book has. Take of it what you will, but get off my back. Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import. Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.

Could you possibly name these other abstract constructs that you refer to.
Would you consider yourself a Nominalist?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 28, 2017, 03:51:59 AM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.
Meanwhile you provide nothing to back it up, and people have objected to it and explained why it is wrong.
I have not, but the cited book has. Take of it what you will, but get off my back. Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import. Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.

Build a house substituting abstract concepts for math.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Jonny B Smart on December 28, 2017, 07:06:38 AM
I’m thinking that maybe infinite plane could work. It’s the only way that the Sun could get to the horizon. Using trigonometry, we know that the apparent angle of the Sun in the sky is the inverse tangent of the altitude of the Sun divided by the distance from the observer to the point directly below it. With any Earthly distances, the Sun never reaches the horizon. But if the Sun could be infinitely far away...
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 28, 2017, 08:44:59 AM
I’m thinking that maybe infinite plane could work. It’s the only way that the Sun could get to the horizon. Using trigonometry, we know that the apparent angle of the Sun in the sky is the inverse tangent of the altitude of the Sun divided by the distance from the observer to the point directly below it. With any Earthly distances, the Sun never reaches the horizon. But if the Sun could be infinitely far away...
That would be some trick since the Sun is always visible somewhere on Earth. How can it be infinitely far away from Ohio and directly overhead in India at the same time?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Jonny B Smart on December 28, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
I’m thinking that maybe infinite plane could work. It’s the only way that the Sun could get to the horizon. Using trigonometry, we know that the apparent angle of the Sun in the sky is the inverse tangent of the altitude of the Sun divided by the distance from the observer to the point directly below it. With any Earthly distances, the Sun never reaches the horizon. But if the Sun could be infinitely far away...
That would be some trick since the Sun is always visible somewhere on Earth. How can it be infinitely far away from Ohio and directly overhead in India at the same time?

Oh, sorry. Under official FE rules, you don’t have to have a thoroughly consistent model. You only have to explain one aspect of the universe at a time. If someone challenges you to align two or three facts at the same time, then you can change the subject. For example, did you know that Pizzagate was actually a cover up operation for NASA lies?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on December 28, 2017, 01:55:22 PM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.

"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers." - Plato

“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” - Lord Kelvin

Pick one.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 28, 2017, 03:06:35 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: robintex on December 28, 2017, 04:03:49 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
John is not the only FE Magician.
I have noticed a  lot of other FE's are good at the disappearing act ! 😆
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: robintex on December 28, 2017, 04:12:41 PM
For those naysayers, Science Without Numbers does a great start of proving this:
Mathematics, ultimately, is a tool. It can be used to aid understanding, but it can also be used for people to elevate themselves. It is one of the many things used as status markers in today's society, where numerical literacy is treated as a way for some people to feel superior to others.
Mathematics is not necessary for a true understanding of the world. That comes from within. If you will only listen to numbers, ask yourself why.

In any course of study for those studying to be in some field involving becoming a scientist , engineer or technician the knowledge of mathematics and how to apply this knowledge is a basic requirement.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 28, 2017, 04:13:46 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
John is not the only FE Magician.
I have noticed a  lot of other FE's are good at the disappearing act ! 😆

Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 28, 2017, 05:19:01 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(

We are not talking about "answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers" but specifically about John Davis, who posts this, then runs away.
I have not, but the cited book has. Take of it what you will, but get off my back. Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import. Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.
And look at the type of person you defend! He denigrates people like this:
Except I'm not coming here and talking crap. You are just being a shit human. Why you feel the need to do this is beyond me. I suppose it must make you feel good about yourself in some way.
Yes, I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug. I am not dishonest.

I have no doubt you are a shit person as you seem to spend your free time abusing people who have beliefs that differ from your own.
You guys are fucking assholes.
Real nice type, this John Davis that you defend!

Then big-notes himself like this:
You could not be more incorrect. I am not a failed man, but the leading Zetetic scientist of our time. I have advanced our knowledge of the universe more so than any one other person since Rowbotham himself. When the veil is lifted from the eyes of the world, they will sing songs to laud the sacrifices that have led to what we know about the flat earth.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Twerp on December 28, 2017, 06:38:26 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(

We are not talking about "answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers" but specifically about John Davis, who posts this, then runs away.
I have not, but the cited book has. Take of it what you will, but get off my back. Your level of explanation is not suitable for proof of a bottle of alcohol, let alone matters of this import. Science With Out Numbers, as its name might hint, gives a solid argument for mathematics being a tool that could be replaced by many other abstract constructs.
And look at the type of person you defend! He denigrates people like this:
Except I'm not coming here and talking crap. You are just being a shit human. Why you feel the need to do this is beyond me. I suppose it must make you feel good about yourself in some way.
Yes, I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug. I am not dishonest.

I have no doubt you are a shit person as you seem to spend your free time abusing people who have beliefs that differ from your own.
You guys are fucking assholes.
Real nice type, this John Davis that you defend!

Then big-notes himself like this:
You could not be more incorrect. I am not a failed man, but the leading Zetetic scientist of our time. I have advanced our knowledge of the universe more so than any one other person since Rowbotham himself. When the veil is lifted from the eyes of the world, they will sing songs to laud the sacrifices that have led to what we know about the flat earth.

From what I understand based on what I've seen here and in other threads, I think it's OK for John to talk like that because he's part of a minority (FEers) but if you talk like that it's bad, and worthy of a rebuke. This is because you belong to a majority group. (GEers)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on December 28, 2017, 06:49:16 PM
I’m thinking that maybe infinite plane could work. It’s the only way that the Sun could get to the horizon. Using trigonometry, we know that the apparent angle of the Sun in the sky is the inverse tangent of the altitude of the Sun divided by the distance from the observer to the point directly below it. With any Earthly distances, the Sun never reaches the horizon. But if the Sun could be infinitely far away...
That would be some trick since the Sun is always visible somewhere on Earth. How can it be infinitely far away from Ohio and directly overhead in India at the same time?

Oh, sorry. Under official FE rules, you don’t have to have a thoroughly consistent model. You only have to explain one aspect of the universe at a time. If someone challenges you to align two or three facts at the same time, then you can change the subject. For example, did you know that Pizzagate was actually a cover up operation for NASA lies?

Well, crap
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 28, 2017, 07:52:58 PM
We are not talking about "answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers" but specifically about John Davis, who posts this, then runs away.
'runs away' = 'has other things to do than make posts in a forum when even if you just want to limit his duties to that forum he is still the guy keeping it running'

Quote
And look at the type of person you defend! He denigrates people like this:
Sure, in response to what exactly? When there are dozens of users who'll happily throw insults and mockery, and you decide to only call out the person that gets angry at it, you're the asshole.

From what I understand based on what I've seen here and in other threads, I think it's OK for John to talk like that because he's part of a minority (FEers) but if you talk like that it's bad, and worthy of a rebuke. This is because you belong to a majority group. (GEers)
Ok vs understandable. I think it makes more sense to be sympathetic to the people that have dozens of people throwing insults at them and wasting their time vs the people that deal with one, maybe two users at a time, and those users generally having their attention split up. Is that so weird?
A FEer can make a thread, and overnight they can end up with responses from more users than there are active FEers on this site, and pretty much all of them will be mocking or derailing rather than trying to engage. Not hard to realise which side is in a hell of a better position. Sure, I disagree with a fair few of those posts, but there are so many REers on this site who're going to post call-outs and object with variously spiralling downward degrees of rationality, what exactly would it achieve to lend my voice to the choir of mockery?
REers meanwhile seem religiously opposed to accepting any kind of criticism. It's genuinely disturbing.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Twerp on December 28, 2017, 08:08:05 PM
Ok vs understandable. I think it makes more sense to be sympathetic to the people that have dozens of people throwing insults at them and wasting their time vs the people that deal with one, maybe two users at a time, and those users generally having their attention split up. Is that so weird?
A FEer can make a thread, and overnight they can end up with responses from more users than there are active FEers on this site, and pretty much all of them will be mocking or derailing rather than trying to engage. Not hard to realise which side is in a hell of a better position. Sure, I disagree with a fair few of those posts, but there are so many REers on this site who're going to post call-outs and object with variously spiralling downward degrees of rationality, what exactly would it achieve to lend my voice to the choir of mockery?
REers meanwhile seem religiously opposed to accepting any kind of criticism. It's genuinely disturbing.

OK. Well I'm a Flat Earth Almost Believer now, so I hope you jump in and stick up for me when some jerk starts giving me a hard time.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Jonny B Smart on December 28, 2017, 09:40:06 PM
Infinite Taco Theory:
If I had infinite time and and infinite supply of tacos, I could them forever.

Unfortunately, there is no known source or plausible source of infinite tacos, not is there any evidence to support the idea that I can live forever. So while someone can show that known laws of gravity allow for an infinite plane, there is no evidence to support it.

The lack of FE math is only part of the problem. It’s also FE willingness to ignore math that shows FE to be absolutely absurd. FE supporters prefer what they imagine to what is known or observable.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 29, 2017, 12:51:33 AM
<< Jane's one sided support for her poor down trodden pet flat earthers ignored >>
Now you show us just how to debunk this flat earth hypothesis correctly.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 29, 2017, 01:24:52 AM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
John is not the only FE Magician.
I have noticed a  lot of other FE's are good at the disappearing act ! 😆
.
Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(

Here’s a question for you. Why are you always angry?
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 29, 2017, 01:36:34 AM
We are not talking about "answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers" but specifically about John Davis, who posts this, then runs away.
'runs away' = 'has other things to do than make posts in a forum when even if you just want to limit his duties to that forum he is still the guy keeping it running'

Quote
And look at the type of person you defend! He denigrates people like this:
Sure, in response to what exactly? When there are dozens of users who'll happily throw insults and mockery, and you decide to only call out the person that gets angry at it, you're the asshole.

From what I understand based on what I've seen here and in other threads, I think it's OK for John to talk like that because he's part of a minority (FEers) but if you talk like that it's bad, and worthy of a rebuke. This is because you belong to a majority group. (GEers)
Ok vs understandable. I think it makes more sense to be sympathetic to the people that have dozens of people throwing insults at them and wasting their time vs the people that deal with one, maybe two users at a time, and those users generally having their attention split up. Is that so weird?
A FEer can make a thread, and overnight they can end up with responses from more users than there are active FEers on this site, and pretty much all of them will be mocking or derailing rather than trying to engage. Not hard to realise which side is in a hell of a better position. Sure, I disagree with a fair few of those posts, but there are so many REers on this site who're going to post call-outs and object with variously spiralling downward degrees of rationality, what exactly would it achieve to lend my voice to the choir of mockery?
REers meanwhile seem religiously opposed to accepting any kind of criticism. It's genuinely disturbing.

I tell you what the problem with John is, self proclaimed leading Zetetic scientist of our time, is he makes things up. When asked to back his statements up, he disappears. He does it on every topic on which he contributes. For example he said Beethoven, you know, da, da, da, dum, was a flat earth believer! Where did he get this fact from?...he just made it up.
I’m not sure about being the greatest Zetetic scientist of our time, self proclaimed, but he is sure of our the greatest fake news producers of our time.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 29, 2017, 04:32:34 AM
<< Jane's one sided support for her poor down trodden pet flat earthers ignored >>
Now you show us just how to debunk this flat earth hypothesis correctly.
So it's ok for you to tell me what I should post, but bad for me to do the same? Ok then.

Here’s a question for you. Why are you always angry?
I'm not, I just don't have the energy to couch what I say for the benefit of your ego every single time I have to make a post.

I tell you what the problem with John is, self proclaimed leading Zetetic scientist of our time, is he makes things up. When asked to back his statements up, he disappears. He does it on every topic on which he contributes.
Translation: he doesn't regularly post in the forum and answer every single bit of abuse that gets thrown at him, so he must be running away. He's averaging about one post a day over the christmas-new year period from my last look at his profile, and the one in this thread you're insisting he ran away from is literally his last post.
I'm sorry his life doesn't revolve around you. Grow up.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 29, 2017, 04:41:12 AM
<< Jane's one sided support for her poor down trodden pet flat earthers ignored >>
Now you show us just how to debunk this flat earth hypothesis correctly.
So it's ok for you to tell me what I should post, but bad for me to do the same? Ok then.
Everybody is getting sick of your tedious insistence on telling everybody else what they are doing wrong, yet never getting involved in the debates yourself.

I guess that you don't get into debates because you can't.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 29, 2017, 04:52:51 AM
Everybody is getting sick of your tedious insistence on telling everybody else what they are doing wrong, yet never getting involved in the debates yourself.

I guess that you don't get into debates because you can't.
So I point out issues with what people are saying and simultaneously don't get involved in the debate? Pretty impressive.

You don't seem to know what a debate is. Hint: just because someone calls you out, doesn't mean they're not debating. Pointing out a bad argument is literally the basic premise of debate.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 29, 2017, 05:52:40 AM
<< Jane's one sided support for her poor down trodden pet flat earthers ignored >>
Now you show us just how to debunk this flat earth hypothesis correctly.
So it's ok for you to tell me what I should post, but bad for me to do the same? Ok then.

Here’s a question for you. Why are you always angry?
I'm not, I just don't have the energy to couch what I say for the benefit of your ego every single time I have to make a post.

I tell you what the problem with John is, self proclaimed leading Zetetic scientist of our time, is he makes things up. When asked to back his statements up, he disappears. He does it on every topic on which he contributes.
Translation: he doesn't regularly post in the forum and answer every single bit of abuse that gets thrown at him, so he must be running away. He's averaging about one post a day over the christmas-new year period from my last look at his profile, and the one in this thread you're insisting he ran away from is literally his last post.
I'm sorry his life doesn't revolve around you. Grow up.

You should watch your blood pressure, ranting at the rate you do is not good for one. Time appears not to be an issue for you, unfortunately.
Though the thread once mode has been side tracked.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 29, 2017, 05:58:05 AM
Everybody is getting sick of your tedious insistence on telling everybody else what they are doing wrong, yet never getting involved in the debates yourself.

I guess that you don't get into debates because you can't.
So I point out issues with what people are saying and simultaneously don't get involved in the debate? Pretty impressive.

You don't seem to know what a debate is. Hint: just because someone calls you out, doesn't mean they're not debating. Pointing out a bad argument is literally the basic premise of debate.

As I said before you are the 'bad argument queen' as you use them all the time.
But why is mathematics, and science for that matter, so uncommon in FE theory. To get back to the debate you could possibly present an argument, a good one please, to possibly refute the statement if you happen disagree with it.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 29, 2017, 06:05:27 AM
As I said before you are the 'bad argument queen' as you use them all the time.
But why is mathematics, and science for that matter, so uncommon in FE theory. To get back to the debate you could possibly present an argument, a good one please, to possibly refute the statement if you happen disagree with it.
Answered that on the first page. Problem is, you never make informed arguments, and you adamantly refuse to refine one if an issue's pointed out.

I am genuinely baffled by what you're trying to achieve. Clearly you're not planning to convince anyone, FEer or FE-open, as they could see right through that kind of  posting. You're not contributing anything new, the only people you might dissuade are those that wouldn't need it. Are you just here to be obnoxious? Let me know so I can block you and save us both the trouble of putting up with your nonsense.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Nightsky on December 29, 2017, 06:08:16 AM
As I said before you are the 'bad argument queen' as you use them all the time.
But why is mathematics, and science for that matter, so uncommon in FE theory. To get back to the debate you could possibly present an argument, a good one please, to possibly refute the statement if you happen disagree with it.
Answered that on the first page. Problem is, you never make informed arguments, and you adamantly refuse to refine one if an issue's pointed out.

I am genuinely baffled by what you're trying to achieve. Clearly you're not planning to convince anyone, FEer or FE-open, as they could see right through that kind of  posting. You're not contributing anything new, the only people you might dissuade are those that wouldn't need it. Are you just here to be obnoxious? Let me know so I can block you and save us both the trouble of putting up with your nonsense.

So you have nothing to add to the debate.
Blocking, for what, not agreeing with you? Im afraid you are the one being rude and angy, Im just trying to find out why FE people appear to ignore mathematics and science and see no reasons for things like evidence to back up their beliefs.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 29, 2017, 06:10:10 AM
But why is mathematics, and science for that matter, so uncommon in FE theory. To get back to the debate you could possibly present an argument, a good one please, to possibly refute the statement if you happen disagree with it.
Answered that on the first page.
So you have nothing to add to the debate.
If that's what you got from what I said, sure, have fun.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: 54N on December 29, 2017, 07:40:08 AM
Maths is avoided at all costs in FE hypotheses because it easily proves the earth to be approximately spherical.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Jonny B Smart on December 29, 2017, 08:06:51 AM
Maths is avoided at all costs in FE hypotheses because it easily proves the earth to be approximately spherical.

Math is avoided at all costs by FE supporters because it interrupts their fantasy.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: robintex on December 29, 2017, 09:15:59 AM
Maths is avoided at all costs in FE hypotheses because it easily proves the earth to be approximately spherical.

Math is avoided at all costs by FE supporters because it interrupts their fantasy.

How true !
Math is related to science and reality.
Two words that are "No-No's" in the FE vocabulary.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 29, 2017, 10:52:06 AM
<< Jane's one sided support for her poor down trodden pet flat earthers ignored >>
Now you show us just how to debunk this flat earth hypothesis correctly.
So it's ok for you to tell me what I should post, but bad for me to do the same? Ok then.
Everybody is getting sick of your tedious insistence on telling everybody else what they are doing wrong, yet never getting involved in the debates yourself.

I guess that you don't get into debates because you can't.

Nope, I never get sick of Jane calling you guys out. 
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on December 29, 2017, 12:35:53 PM
Have you noticed whenever you ask John a question.....he disappears.
John is not the only FE Magician.
I have noticed a  lot of other FE's are good at the disappearing act ! 😆

Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(

He doesn't have any other priorities that you know about. The man is full of bullshit. He claimed to have written a book years ago - has anyone seen it? Why does he never comment about it when asked a straight question? Why does he never explain certain aspects of his non-euclidian ramblings when directly questioned, yet finds time to muse on philosophy on the forums as if he was some toff in a smoking jacket with a monocle and a cigarette in a long holder?
If you're defending him then you've been taken in by a con artist.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: Slemon on December 29, 2017, 12:45:02 PM
He doesn't have any other priorities that you know about.
I think it's a fair bet that all the users of this forum do other things with their lives. I don't know about you, but seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: JackBlack on December 29, 2017, 01:45:11 PM
Yes, FEers' lives should always revolve around answering questions on an internet forum to people who really don't care about the answers, how dare they have other priorities  >:(
No, they are free to do as they please. They don't need to come here.
But they chose to come here, and chose to spout pure bullshit. If people question that bullshit, they should be able to back it up or admit they were wrong.
If they aren't willing to back up their claims they shouldn't make them in the first place. (Especially as all it does is make FE look even more pathetic, but that is why you pity them and defend them so much isn't it?)
Title: Re: Why Mathmatics so Uncommon in FE Theory?
Post by: rabinoz on December 29, 2017, 02:10:38 PM
The man is full of bullshit. He claimed to have written a book years ago - has anyone seen it? Why does he never comment about it when asked a straight question? Why does he never explain certain aspects of his non-euclidian ramblings when directly questioned, yet finds time to muse on philosophy on the forums as if he was some toff in a smoking jacket with a monocle and a cigarette in a long holder?
If you're defending him then you've been taken in by a con artist.
As far as I can see, John Davis no more believes the earth is flat than you and I do.
He just wants to make a big name for himself, but successful as he seems to be in his profession he knows that no-one will remember him for that.

Also, he knows that there is no kudos to be gained, nor challenge in arguing against the silly flat earth ideas here on YouTube.
As all Globe supporters here know, that is a thankless task. We get labelled as shills, NASA lovers and far worse from brotherhood of the dome.

So John Davis tries to "big-note" himself by making claims like:
The Ferrari Effect functions due to the non-euclidean geometry I discovered. You clearly don't understand it, and I find it funny and arrogant you think you know the intent of my words and diagrams better than I do myself.
Then he has the temerity to assert that: "EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT" a totally false and deceptive claim!

Einstein's relativity, special or general, does not "PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT"!
He seems to claim to justifuy it in EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT, May 23, 2016 JohnDavis (https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat) but all I see are empty meaningless words.

Then asserts:
You could not be more incorrect. I am not a failed man, but the leading Zetetic scientist of our time. I have advanced our knowledge of the universe more so than any one other person since Rowbotham himself. When the veil is lifted from the eyes of the world, they will sing songs to laud the sacrifices that have led to what we know about the flat earth.
I am immortalized by my work, not by mention of it however.
How can anyone take a person who makes claims like that seriously?

And to top it off:
Yes, I am the most influential man of our time.

I have no idea whether John Davis is worth Two millions, but this does seem appropriate:
Quote
With all his heart and soul and mind and strength,
To love his maker, for he was SELF-MADE!
a Self-made, self-trained, self-willed, self-satisfied, He was, himself, his daily boast and pride.


From: Two millions. By William Allen Butler, 1825-1902.

I have not dared bring this up before now, but John Davis is simply getting too much for me to stomach.
Quote from: reliable unnamed source
John Davis told me it's easy to argue Round Earth.
There's facts and reality on that side.

Arguing Flat Earth takes skill and finesse.
Apologies to the source for whom I have the greatest respect.