The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Copper Knickers on May 31, 2016, 01:30:59 PM

Title: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on May 31, 2016, 01:30:59 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on May 31, 2016, 02:19:08 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: FalseProphet on May 31, 2016, 02:21:32 PM
I heard an astronaut saying ina video, the year has 364 days. A blatant lie if you ask me.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on May 31, 2016, 02:25:37 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.
So you don't have any evidence either!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on May 31, 2016, 02:39:39 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on May 31, 2016, 02:47:30 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?

Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't. 
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Blue_Moon on May 31, 2016, 03:28:03 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?

Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't.

So you've been taking it for granted that NASA lies, without realizing that you have no evidence.  Now that someone is calling you out on that, you're trying to shift the blame onto them. 
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on May 31, 2016, 04:00:26 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?

Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't.

So you've been taking it for granted that NASA lies, without realizing that you have no evidence.  Now that someone is calling you out on that, you're trying to shift the blame onto them.

Nice try.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Blue_Moon on May 31, 2016, 04:07:10 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?

Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't.

So you've been taking it for granted that NASA lies, without realizing that you have no evidence.  Now that someone is calling you out on that, you're trying to shift the blame onto them.

Nice try.

See?  You're avoiding the question. 
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 01, 2016, 01:46:21 AM
Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't.

So you've been taking it for granted that NASA lies, without realizing that you have no evidence.  Now that someone is calling you out on that, you're trying to shift the blame onto them.
Now that is funny. It would have been more respectable to admit that you do not have any evidence. The water is wet example is nice. This is an experiment, which everyone can perform at home. It is in fact so easy to perform that it is not necessary to document the outcome.
The NASA-is-lying argument is pure circular reasoning. You assume that it is obvious that nasa is lying, therefore you do not feel the need to prove it. But, unlike water, I can not put my hand in NASA and determine it is wet (or lying, in this case). Therefore, you have to provide evidence.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 01, 2016, 02:06:51 AM
NASA and every government agency in the world, including 100's of other industries HAVE to lie en mass for the flat earth conspiracy to work.
With out a super global conspiracy they have nothing.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 01, 2016, 02:24:19 AM
NASA and every government agency in the world, including 100's of other industries HAVE to lie en mass for the flat earth conspiracy to work.
With out a super global conspiracy they have nothing.

It would be interesting to try to estimate the percentage of the earths population which would have to be lying about a flat earth.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Lowezar on June 01, 2016, 03:24:00 AM
It would be interesting to try to estimate the percentage of the earths population which would have to be lying about a flat earth.
As I wrote somewhere here a month or so ago, we (me an my colleagues) did try such exercise on a lazy friday eve. :) I admit, we weren't exactly sober, but we estimated some 40% population of our country (Ukraine) to have to keep quiet since mid 50s. This includes all sorts of astronomers, geodesists, rocket designers and builders, politicians and local authorities obviously, accountants in all related government institutions... And lots and lots of other people of various specialities indirectly involved in building the rockets and satellites for USSR/Russia, e.g. people on metalwork factories making rocket/satellite parts, tracking stations, observatories...
Not sure how it extrapolates to entire Earth, but I imagine it's still a huge chunk of Earth population. If there was a hoax making all these people's jobs impossible, it would've slipped out over all this time.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 01, 2016, 03:59:01 AM
It would be interesting to try to estimate the percentage of the earths population which would have to be lying about a flat earth.
As I wrote somewhere here a month or so ago, we (me an my colleagues) did try such exercise on a lazy friday eve. :) I admit, we weren't exactly sober, but we estimated some 40% population of our country (Ukraine) to have to keep quiet since mid 50s. This includes all sorts of astronomers, geodesists, rocket designers and builders, politicians and local authorities obviously, accountants in all related government institutions... And lots and lots of other people of various specialities indirectly involved in building the rockets and satellites for USSR/Russia, e.g. people on metalwork factories making rocket/satellite parts, tracking stations, observatories...
Not sure how it extrapolates to entire Earth, but I imagine it's still a huge chunk of Earth population. If there was a hoax making all these people's jobs impossible, it would've slipped out over all this time.
I would guess a much lower percentage, although it still would be quite high. For example local authorities or the people making rocket/satellite parts do not necessarily know that what they are working on is a fraud.
On the other hand, every pilot and flight director, most members of any naval operation and everyone who has ever been to antarctica and seen a midnight sun/midday night would have to be included. (If you want to be nitpicking you can include every person (equipped with a bit common sense) in the southern hemisphere, since the motion of the stars there can not be explained under FET, but then you would have to include everyone who has ever seen a sunset, and that would make lots and lots of people. But I guess those can not be called liars, since even most FE members would have seen a sunset.)
Also, it is not just NASA, also Roscosmos (and ESA and so on). After the fall of the sovjet union, where there was a lot of anarchy and whole weapon arsenals supposeldy vanished, this conspiracy stayed intact, which says a lot about how well-organized it is. Why the russians participated in a conspiracy which eventually ruined them is still a mystery though.

Edit: Oh right, I forgot: We have google earth, which maps our planet as a globe with quite accurate precision (say we allow a 5% error in measured distances in google earth). Then the earth can not be flat, since curvature is invariant under isometries (saying if we map something and preserve distances, then we also preserve curvature). So (especially in the southern hemisphere) the distances have to be very different from the ones provided by google earth. Noone noticed until now, so many people in the southern hemisphere have to be included in the conspiracy.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Lowezar on June 01, 2016, 06:08:59 AM
For example local authorities or the people making rocket/satellite parts do not necessarily know that what they are working on is a fraud.
That thought is a mistake. You're assuming people tiny parts of a huge machine don't wonder what they're doing or why is this piece have to be shaped exactly like this, or a boss not wanting to learn how exactly this part classifies for reports, and additionally what it would cost on black market. While there are such exceptions among "common workers" they are that - exceptions. Most people will poke everyone around and turn entire internet upside-down in search what the hell they're making. They may not exactly need it since they have a drawing but most people are curious about weirdly shaped parts, you know. :) And again, taking our local realities into account... they'll what to know if it's profitable to try and sneak one "extra" that "nobody would notice" out and resell personally. :)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Pongo on June 01, 2016, 06:31:48 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 01, 2016, 06:52:45 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

What is even more cool about this lie, is the people that wanted that satellite up starts actually getting the information from this said satellite. So the industry standard has been working quite well.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 01, 2016, 07:11:39 AM
(If you want to be nitpicking you can include every person (equipped with a bit common sense) in the southern hemisphere.

Alas, that's why I'm here.

Quote
Edit: Oh right, I forgot: We have google earth, which maps our planet as a globe with quite accurate precision (say we allow a 5% error in measured distances in google earth). Then the earth can not be flat, since curvature is invariant under isometries (saying if we map something and preserve distances, then we also preserve curvature). So (especially in the southern hemisphere) the distances have to be very different from the ones provided by google earth. Noone noticed until now, so many people in the southern hemisphere have to be included in the conspiracy.

Totally agree, anyone in the southern hemisphere that a FE map has the scales and distances wrong in five seconds.

The fact they can't make a scale map yet call F.E a "theory" is so far above my paygrade I've given up on ever understanding it.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 01, 2016, 07:46:38 AM
For example local authorities or the people making rocket/satellite parts do not necessarily know that what they are working on is a fraud.
That thought is a mistake. You're assuming people tiny parts of a huge machine don't wonder what they're doing or why is this piece have to be shaped exactly like this, or a boss not wanting to learn how exactly this part classifies for reports, and additionally what it would cost on black market. While there are such exceptions among "common workers" they are that - exceptions. Most people will poke everyone around and turn entire internet upside-down in search what the hell they're making. They may not exactly need it since they have a drawing but most people are curious about weirdly shaped parts, you know. :) And again, taking our local realities into account... they'll what to know if it's profitable to try and sneak one "extra" that "nobody would notice" out and resell personally. :)
Well, technically they could build those satellites, mount them on a rocket and send that rocket upwards. Of course it will hit the dome/explode/lose thrust as soon as it leaves the atmosphere, depends whom you ask. The only people involved in this conspiracy are the ones faking the data which comes from the rocket and the satellites. Of course if you build everything accurately as you tell the public, there is not that much profit to be made, but well... it has to be a big conspiracy, otherwise it would all collapse.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on June 01, 2016, 09:06:14 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

Do you have any evidence that when NASA says they have a satellite in polar orbit, they don't?

If NASA lies, they risk being found out. My question at the start of this thread is basically asking for cases of NASA being verifiably found out. So far, nothing.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 01, 2016, 01:14:12 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

I'm not joking at all. Internet searches for 'NASA lies' just come up with conspiracy theories. Are there any actual, documented lies?

Is NASA lying?  Is Water Wet? I just did a search for 'is water wet' and Google says it isn't.

Please provide a specific example and evidence.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 01, 2016, 02:10:45 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1725,00.html first page you get when you google water is wet. It is about a clear definition of wetness and has nothing to do with the point that noone has even the slightest evidence of a situation where nasa lied, instead everyone just claims they do.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on June 05, 2016, 12:07:32 AM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

So, no takers then. Is it to be assumed that NASA don't tell lies after all?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 05, 2016, 12:47:08 AM
For example local authorities or the people making rocket/satellite parts do not necessarily know that what they are working on is a fraud.
That thought is a mistake. You're assuming people tiny parts of a huge machine don't wonder what they're doing or why is this piece have to be shaped exactly like this, or a boss not wanting to learn how exactly this part classifies for reports, and additionally what it would cost on black market. While there are such exceptions among "common workers" they are that - exceptions. Most people will poke everyone around and turn entire internet upside-down in search what the hell they're making. They may not exactly need it since they have a drawing but most people are curious about weirdly shaped parts, you know. :) And again, taking our local realities into account... they'll what to know if it's profitable to try and sneak one "extra" that "nobody would notice" out and resell personally. :)

This is actually pretty funny. This was the base substance of my very first post here. Asking about the parts I fabricate where they go. Who is paying me. Questions about the things I have seen and experienced in my profession. Ect ect under the flat earth model.

This is exactly what you said someone would do, good call.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Ex-Globe on June 05, 2016, 01:07:05 AM
You're asking for times when a well funded agency admitted to lying?
Or
When authorities admitted NASA lied?

There are two press conferences you might want to look at, the apollo11 press conference where they seem like they just got buttfucked,rather than returning from the most amazing mission never.
And the mars Rover press conference where the Elvis haired lead engineer can't answer any of the crowds questions
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 05, 2016, 02:16:14 AM
NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law. as it claims both Forces can be exerted on the same Object yet still result in Motion.

This is basically like saying I can lift myself off the ground by pulling on my bootlaces.

This one Big Lie invalidates pretty much all the rest of their claims.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 05, 2016, 02:35:21 AM
NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law. as it claims both Forces can be exerted on the same Object yet still result in Motion.

This is basically like saying I can lift myself off the ground by pulling on my bootlaces.

This one Big Lie invalidates pretty much all the rest of their claims.

No you just don't understand Newton's third. And in this case the fact that one object becomes two and that net momentum is zeroes each new object moves away from each other. ie a rocket and its fuel.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on June 05, 2016, 02:50:29 AM
You're asking for times when a well funded agency admitted to lying?
Or
When authorities admitted NASA lied?

I'm asking for examples of verified, substantiated lies, either from admission or from reputable third party evidence.

There are two press conferences you might want to look at, the apollo11 press conference where they seem like they just got buttfucked,rather than returning from the most amazing mission never.
And the mars Rover press conference where the Elvis haired lead engineer can't answer any of the crowds questions

I'm guessing you mean this (http://) and this (http://)? What lies do you think these footages substantiate?

Edit: fixed links.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 05, 2016, 03:01:47 AM
NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law. as it claims both Forces can be exerted on the same Object yet still result in Motion.

This is basically like saying I can lift myself off the ground by pulling on my bootlaces.

This one Big Lie invalidates pretty much all the rest of their claims.

No you just don't understand Newton's third. And in this case the fact that one object becomes two and that net momentum is zeroes each new object moves away from each other. ie a rocket and its fuel.

You say I don't understand N3 then write garbage like that?

Let us never forget, 'Mainframes', that you did not even know the Newtonian definition of the term 'Force' until I told you...

Toodle-pip, Walter Mitty!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 05, 2016, 04:44:40 AM
NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law. as it claims both Forces can be exerted on the same Object yet still result in Motion.

This is basically like saying I can lift myself off the ground by pulling on my bootlaces.

This one Big Lie invalidates pretty much all the rest of their claims.

No you just don't understand Newton's third. And in this case the fact that one object becomes two and that net momentum is zeroes each new object moves away from each other. ie a rocket and its fuel.

You say I don't understand N3 then write garbage like that?

Let us never forget, 'Mainframes', that you did not even know the Newtonian definition of the term 'Force' until I told you...

Toodle-pip, Walter Mitty!
Okay, but then every single authority in physics has to lie about this law. You know, everyone who ever graduated in physics. Some of them are quite intelligent. I highly doubt that.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: frenat on June 05, 2016, 05:51:32 AM
You're asking for times when a well funded agency admitted to lying?
Or
When authorities admitted NASA lied?

There are two press conferences you might want to look at, the apollo11 press conference where they seem like they just got buttfucked,rather than returning from the most amazing mission never.

you mean the tiny part of the press conference that hoaxies cherry-pick because the rest doesn't fit the description?  And they forget that this conference was a full week after they go back and had been stuck in quarantine away from their families and at that point just wanted to see their wives and children?  There are plenty of photos and videos of them while still in quarantine and after the conference being jovial and the opposite of the small clip hoaxies like to cherry-pick but I doubt many hoaxies even know about them.  Very few hoaxies know anything about Apollo that isn't presented in a youtube video.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 05, 2016, 06:01:08 AM
hoaxies... hoaxies... hoaxies... hoaxies...

Lol at your psychic driving of the word 'hoaxies' you tool.

every single authority in physics has to lie about this law.

It takes about 5 minutes of googling to find respected experts on physics education describing NASA's interpretation of N3 as 'wrong', for precisely the reasons I stated.

I'm looking at one now...

And no, I won't tell you where it is.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 05, 2016, 06:12:03 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

It has been proven! You can SEE satellites, you total dingbat! The ISS is big enough that you can see its shape through a telescope. NASA don't have to serve up proof on a plate when there is an open buffet the whole world can partake in.
 ::) :P
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 05, 2016, 09:04:40 AM
You're asking for times when a well funded agency admitted to lying?
Or
When authorities admitted NASA lied?

I'm asking for examples of verified, substantiated lies, either from admission or from reputable third party evidence.

There are two press conferences you might want to look at, the apollo11 press conference where they seem like they just got buttfucked,rather than returning from the most amazing mission never.
And the mars Rover press conference where the Elvis haired lead engineer can't answer any of the crowds questions

I'm guessing you mean this (http://) and this (http://)? What lies do you think these footages substantiate?

Edit: fixed links.

Latest example:

100% Lie, No doubt, No-Fence riding, No Excuses, No doublespeak,



Annnnnd, you're done.

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 05, 2016, 10:25:21 AM
That would be convincing, if there was no other explanation for it.
Unfortunately for the tinfoil hat brigade, there is a very simple and mundane explanation for all of it.
The file may well have been created in 2012, but that doesn't tell you anything at all about what image was shown in the file. It's probable that the file which was created was a blank template of a standardised size and resolution, so that images of any kind could be pasted in there and be made ready for serving up on their website at the right size and quality. I use something exactly like that for making CD sleeves - the template was made in 2013 and I just drop new image layers in to change the pictures. But if you look at the created date of a sleeve I made two weeks ago, you'll see December 2013 - OMG, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!!! DINOSAUR NEIL MUST BE LYING!!!
As for the supposed 5 hour editing time? There is no evidence that it was being edited for 5 hours, merely that 5 hours elapsed between it being opened and it being saved. The person could have opened it and then dealt with some of the other tasks his job entails before saving it later on. To try and use that as "proof" of image tampering is comical.
His comments about the compression being too much for a level 6 JPG are irrelevant - it's known that New Horizons sent back compressed data initially, which is why we got pictures relatively quickly, but also why it will take months to get all the high quality data back from it. The Dutch moron should have done his homework.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 05, 2016, 10:42:45 AM
every single authority in physics has to lie about this law.

It takes about 5 minutes of googling to find respected experts on physics education describing NASA's interpretation of N3 as 'wrong', for precisely the reasons I stated.

I'm looking at one now...

And no, I won't tell you where it is.
Would you be so generous to present this source?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 05, 2016, 10:56:10 AM
That would be convincing, if there was no other explanation for it.
Unfortunately for the tinfoil hat brigade, there is a very simple and mundane explanation for all of it.
The file may well have been created in 2012, but that doesn't tell you anything at all about what image was shown in the file. It's probable that the file which was created was a blank template of a standardised size and resolution, so that images of any kind could be pasted in there and be made ready for serving up on their website at the right size and quality. I use something exactly like that for making CD sleeves - the template was made in 2013 and I just drop new image layers in to change the pictures. But if you look at the created date of a sleeve I made two weeks ago, you'll see December 2013 - OMG, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!!! DINOSAUR NEIL MUST BE LYING!!!
As for the supposed 5 hour editing time? There is no evidence that it was being edited for 5 hours, merely that 5 hours elapsed between it being opened and it being saved. The person could have opened it and then dealt with some of the other tasks his job entails before saving it later on. To try and use that as "proof" of image tampering is comical.
His comments about the compression being too much for a level 6 JPG are irrelevant - it's known that New Horizons sent back compressed data initially, which is why we got pictures relatively quickly, but also why it will take months to get all the high quality data back from it. The Dutch moron should have done his homework.

I actually agree with the 5hrs part.  Doesn't prove anything.  However your description of the file creation date is incorrect from my experience.  If you have a template file, and you drop new material in said file, then save that file as a new file, then it will have a new creation date.  If you are saying they drop new material in an old file, save, then use that file as the published source it means they have multiple old files they do this with.

If you can find me some of these that were published in the past with the exact date/time I will lend your theory some credibility.  Otherwise it's a lie.

edit:  obviously copying file also changes creation date.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 05, 2016, 11:40:51 AM
Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 05, 2016, 01:10:58 PM

If you can find me some of these that were published in the past with the exact date/time I will lend your theory some credibility.  Otherwise it's a lie.


No, not being able to hand you evidence of something doesn't affect whether it's true or not. If I said I had a macaroni ready meal for lunch, but couldn't prove it because I didn't keep the box, does that mean I didn't have a macaroni ready meal for lunch?  :P
If NASA is really doing this fakery, then surely there'd be lots of these oddly dated files - which you are now claiming would be evidence that I was right and you were wrong. Make your mind up!

Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.

It depends on how the EXIF data was read and written. To some programs, created/taken are the same thing. If you took a photo of today's newspaper, posted it on here, I took a screen capture and pasted it into a file from last week and then saved that file, what would the "date taken" say then, huh? What would it say? Did I just invent a time machine, or is there a more logical explanation?
Also, have the courtesy to spell my name correctly, it's written there in front of you.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 05, 2016, 01:24:25 PM
Also, this would be yet another hoax requiring the input of quite a lot of people - but of course, ~Teh Conspiracy~ is still so super-secret that only 10 people in the world know about it, right?  :-\
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 05, 2016, 01:25:57 PM
Would you be so generous to present this source?

Nope.

Same as I won't tell you the source of the physicist who says 'NASA notoriously has problems with Newton's 3rd Law'...

Or where the real aerospace engineers who regard NASA as a dirty word hang out...

Or where I got my data as to the true performance of the V2 rocket from.

When you scum vandalised a wikipedia article I cited, then tried to say I vandalised it myself, I knew that there were no depths to which you are not prepared to stoop.

So I will never, ever, make your snuffing out of the lights of truth easy for you again.

Now stfu & gtfo, thought-policing disinfo-scum.



Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 05, 2016, 02:27:36 PM
Would you be so generous to present this source?

Nope.

Same as I won't tell you the source of the physicist who says 'NASA notoriously has problems with Newton's 3rd Law'...

Or where the real aerospace engineers who regard NASA as a dirty word hang out...

Or where I got my data as to the true performance of the V2 rocket from.

When you scum vandalised a wikipedia article I cited, then tried to say I vandalised it myself, I knew that there were no depths to which you are not prepared to stoop.

So I will never, ever, make your snuffing out of the lights of truth easy for you again.

Now stfu & gtfo, thought-policing disinfo-scum.

Papa won't provide the source because it doesn't exist. Just like all the other evidence he apparently has that is concrete proof but won't actually present it because he knows it is all bollocks.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 05, 2016, 03:02:54 PM

If you can find me some of these that were published in the past with the exact date/time I will lend your theory some credibility.  Otherwise it's a lie.


No, not being able to hand you evidence of something doesn't affect whether it's true or not. If I said I had a macaroni ready meal for lunch, but couldn't prove it because I didn't keep the box, does that mean I didn't have a macaroni ready meal for lunch?  :P
If NASA is really doing this fakery, then surely there'd be lots of these oddly dated files - which you are now claiming would be evidence that I was right and you were wrong. Make your mind up!

Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.

It depends on how the EXIF data was read and written. To some programs, created/taken are the same thing. If you took a photo of today's newspaper, posted it on here, I took a screen capture and pasted it into a file from last week and then saved that file, what would the "date taken" say then, huh? What would it say? Did I just invent a time machine, or is there a more logical explanation?
Also, have the courtesy to spell my name correctly, it's written there in front of you.

So I think what you're trying to say is the people at NASA aren't liars, they're just not intelligent enough to understand the need to use or publish correct data.  Are you a supporter of inaccurate information Niel?


Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 05, 2016, 03:17:51 PM

If you can find me some of these that were published in the past with the exact date/time I will lend your theory some credibility.  Otherwise it's a lie.


No, not being able to hand you evidence of something doesn't affect whether it's true or not. If I said I had a macaroni ready meal for lunch, but couldn't prove it because I didn't keep the box, does that mean I didn't have a macaroni ready meal for lunch?  :P
If NASA is really doing this fakery, then surely there'd be lots of these oddly dated files - which you are now claiming would be evidence that I was right and you were wrong. Make your mind up!

Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.

It depends on how the EXIF data was read and written. To some programs, created/taken are the same thing. If you took a photo of today's newspaper, posted it on here, I took a screen capture and pasted it into a file from last week and then saved that file, what would the "date taken" say then, huh? What would it say? Did I just invent a time machine, or is there a more logical explanation?
Also, have the courtesy to spell my name correctly, it's written there in front of you.

So I think what you're trying to say is the people at NASA aren't liars, they're just not intelligent enough to understand the need to use or publish correct data.  Are you a supporter of inaccurate information Niel?

There is no "need" to ensure an obscure field in one individual file (which has no impact on its scientific value) is correct. You'll notice also from the Dutch Moron's video that it details the colour format as being RGB, which is not what is received from the spacecraft, but I don't see you screaming "fake!" over that. Or is it just that you didn't notice that?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 05, 2016, 03:43:47 PM

If you can find me some of these that were published in the past with the exact date/time I will lend your theory some credibility.  Otherwise it's a lie.


No, not being able to hand you evidence of something doesn't affect whether it's true or not. If I said I had a macaroni ready meal for lunch, but couldn't prove it because I didn't keep the box, does that mean I didn't have a macaroni ready meal for lunch?  :P
If NASA is really doing this fakery, then surely there'd be lots of these oddly dated files - which you are now claiming would be evidence that I was right and you were wrong. Make your mind up!

Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.

It depends on how the EXIF data was read and written. To some programs, created/taken are the same thing. If you took a photo of today's newspaper, posted it on here, I took a screen capture and pasted it into a file from last week and then saved that file, what would the "date taken" say then, huh? What would it say? Did I just invent a time machine, or is there a more logical explanation?
Also, have the courtesy to spell my name correctly, it's written there in front of you.

So I think what you're trying to say is the people at NASA aren't liars, they're just not intelligent enough to understand the need to use or publish correct data.  Are you a supporter of inaccurate information Niel?

There is no "need" to ensure an obscure field in one individual file (which has no impact on its scientific value) is correct. You'll notice also from the Dutch Moron's video that it details the colour format as being RGB, which is not what is received from the spacecraft, but I don't see you screaming "fake!" over that. Or is it just that you didn't notice that?

So you're admitting they are publishing inaccurate information its just this press release and photo aren't really that important? Gotcha.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 06, 2016, 11:19:25 AM

So you're admitting they are publishing inaccurate information its just this press release and photo aren't really that important? Gotcha.

Huh? Stop trying to make a semantic argument, it's the classic sign of a troll with nowhere to go. Your definition of "publishing inaccurate information" is stretching the truth beyond breaking point, because the photo is published (in other words presented for public consumption) with accompanying info stating that it was taken in 2015. Information which can only be found by examining non-visual data from a file is not "published" information, is it? That's like someone stealing something from a shop and then claiming it was "given" to them because nobody actively stopped them taking it.
Go home.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 06, 2016, 11:44:47 AM
Papa won't provide the source because it doesn't exist.

It does & I'm reading it now: 'NASA is wrong' he says...

What's more, no-one in the comments section disagrees with him.

Lulzy stuff.

You REALLY want that information don't you?

Won't get it!

Now go vandalise a wiki-article you creepy thought-police scumbags.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 06, 2016, 12:37:59 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You are welcome to look through my posts here. The last couple of NASA's fairy tales that I met were

(i) Growing basil on the Moon - OMG!!!!!!! ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D

and

(ii) in 1968 NASA tested their lunar mission "heat shield". At the re-entry, it was disappearing at the rate of about 5 mm/s. The heat was so high they could not even record the temperature values. After 90 or so seconds of the re-entry the heat shield was burned through, the spaceship was burned through and the test had ended with a complete disaster. I could not find any reports about the successful testing of the heat shield before the Moon landing fairy tale, yet in 1969 they triumphantly "returned" from the Moon. How?

 ;D
 8)

Please note I was not obsessed with the idea of catching NASA lying. Just met that stuff incidentally. If you're interested, dig yourself, and you'll find many examples like that. And I do not blame them. Life is life. Besides, if American taxpayers are willing to pay for such NASA activity and to be entertained like that, it is their free choice. It's just funny.
 ::)
 :P
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 06, 2016, 02:31:36 PM

(ii) in 1968 NASA tested their lunar mission "heat shield". At the re-entry, it was disappearing at the rate of about 5 mm/s. The heat was so high they could not even record the temperature values. After 90 or so seconds of the re-entry the heat shield was burned through, the spaceship was burned through and the test had ended with a complete disaster. I could not find any reports about the successful testing of the heat shield before the Moon landing fairy tale, yet in 1969 they triumphantly "returned" from the Moon. How?


Well done for your tabloid style piece of misrepresentation. Firstly, your description of the test (I assume from this document: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf) being a complete disaster is garbage. The test was a failure, but the causes of failure were fairly well understood and were the result of excessive turbulence and wind shear blowing off some of the protective char that was intended to remain in place. To say the heat was so high they could not record the temperature values is bollocks. Some of the thermocouples got hotter than their calibrated values or ceased to function, but there are whole graphs full of temperature data throughout the test in the document appendices.
Also, there were several other tests conducted which were successful - the fact that they don't come up as the top document when you Google "apollo heat shield test" was probably enough to put you off looking any further.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: getrealzommb on June 06, 2016, 03:03:45 PM
Also, Dinosaur Niel, I just downloaded the pic for examination myself.  The date in question is the 'date taken'  Please explain that.

what date was this taken please?
(https://thumb.ibb.co/nrrSov/Papers.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrrSov)

The answer is: ******5 years ago..... wow spooky******* Highlight to reveal
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 06, 2016, 03:39:59 PM
Papa won't provide the source because it doesn't exist.

It does & I'm reading it now: 'NASA is wrong' he says...

What's more, no-one in the comments section disagrees with him.

Lulzy stuff.

You REALLY want that information don't you?

Won't get it!

Now go vandalise a wiki-article you creepy thought-police scumbags.

I have ran out of excuses for you Legba. I think you just might be an idiot...

Viewing your super duper secret "information". I had a dog that used to fart and wake herself up, then be in the state of confusion of what happened. I don't know why I thought of this dog out of no where while reading your "wisdom"
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Silicon on June 06, 2016, 04:51:52 PM

So you're admitting they are publishing inaccurate information its just this press release and photo aren't really that important? Gotcha.

Huh? Stop trying to make a semantic argument, it's the classic sign of a troll with nowhere to go. Your definition of "publishing inaccurate information" is stretching the truth beyond breaking point, because the photo is published (in other words presented for public consumption) with accompanying info stating that it was taken in 2015. Information which can only be found by examining non-visual data from a file is not "published" information, is it? That's like someone stealing something from a shop and then claiming it was "given" to them because nobody actively stopped them taking it.
Go home.

Quote
There is no "need" to ensure an obscure field in one individual file (which has no impact on its scientific value) is correct.

Do you remember writing this?  You already admitted there is no need to publish correct information, so there is no point in debating with you.  Go to some other forum and debate with people who don't care about facts, you'll do better there.


Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 06, 2016, 06:45:44 PM

(ii) in 1968 NASA tested their lunar mission "heat shield". At the re-entry, it was disappearing at the rate of about 5 mm/s. The heat was so high they could not even record the temperature values. After 90 or so seconds of the re-entry the heat shield was burned through, the spaceship was burned through and the test had ended with a complete disaster. I could not find any reports about the successful testing of the heat shield before the Moon landing fairy tale, yet in 1969 they triumphantly "returned" from the Moon. How?


Well done for your tabloid style piece of misrepresentation. Firstly, your description of the test (I assume from this document: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf) being a complete disaster is garbage. The test was a failure, but the causes of failure were fairly well understood and were the result of excessive turbulence and wind shear blowing off some of the protective char that was intended to remain in place. To say the heat was so high they could not record the temperature values is bollocks. Some of the thermocouples got hotter than their calibrated values or ceased to function, but there are whole graphs full of temperature data throughout the test in the document appendices.
Also, there were several other tests conducted which were successful - the fact that they don't come up as the top document when you Google "apollo heat shield test" was probably enough to put you off looking any further.

I meant NASA article of 1968 I mentioned earlied. Bro', if you're a human, not a malfunctioning bot, you'll be able to read my previous post about that heat shield test, with the quotations from the article. By the way, the article is very good, and I provided the link.

Why I doubt you're a human? Simply because you're apparently not able to read and/or understand the document you've pointed to. It clearly says:

"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
 :P

Anyway, I am glad you're perfectly satisfied with the lunar basil story.
 :P
 8)
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 07, 2016, 03:36:16 AM
"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
A catastrophic failure of the heat-shield is no catastrophic failure of the test. I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test which was used to improve heat-shields to make them work like they do today.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 07, 2016, 06:26:16 AM
I have ran out of excuses for you Legba.

It's NASA that needs excuses, not me...

Luckily they got you & your disinfo-pals ready with a bucketful.

Anyhoo; NASA lie about Newton's 3rd Law...

They do it a lot, on purpose & as a matter of principle.

And it's common knowledge that they do so...

Oh yes it is!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 07, 2016, 06:32:50 AM
And it's common knowledge that they do so...

Oh yes it is!
Anyone imagine Papa Legba speaking with a dothraki accent?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 07, 2016, 06:41:36 AM
Just you & your sock-army I'm afraid.

And NASA still lie about Newton's 3rd Law.

And it is still common knowledge that they do so.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 07, 2016, 10:11:02 AM

So you're admitting they are publishing inaccurate information its just this press release and photo aren't really that important? Gotcha.

Huh? Stop trying to make a semantic argument, it's the classic sign of a troll with nowhere to go. Your definition of "publishing inaccurate information" is stretching the truth beyond breaking point, because the photo is published (in other words presented for public consumption) with accompanying info stating that it was taken in 2015. Information which can only be found by examining non-visual data from a file is not "published" information, is it? That's like someone stealing something from a shop and then claiming it was "given" to them because nobody actively stopped them taking it.
Go home.

Quote
There is no "need" to ensure an obscure field in one individual file (which has no impact on its scientific value) is correct.

Do you remember writing this?  You already admitted there is no need to publish correct information, so there is no point in debating with you.  Go to some other forum and debate with people who don't care about facts, you'll do better there.

There is no point in debating with you because you don't debate; you play the man, not the ball, and use the Jora tactic of going for semantics whenever you can. I did not admit what you say above, you are combining two things I said - out of context - and then stating the direct opposite of what I said regarding "publishing" information. Do you think anyone reading this is going to think you're correct? If you do, then you're of pretty low intelligence. People can read my posts as well as yours - did you realise that?
Regardless, I won't have to put up with any more of your drivel - you're going on my blocked list. Where you will be in good company with Papa Legba, sceptimatic, and various other twats.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 07, 2016, 10:38:39 AM

(ii) in 1968 NASA tested their lunar mission "heat shield". At the re-entry, it was disappearing at the rate of about 5 mm/s. The heat was so high they could not even record the temperature values. After 90 or so seconds of the re-entry the heat shield was burned through, the spaceship was burned through and the test had ended with a complete disaster. I could not find any reports about the successful testing of the heat shield before the Moon landing fairy tale, yet in 1969 they triumphantly "returned" from the Moon. How?


Well done for your tabloid style piece of misrepresentation. Firstly, your description of the test (I assume from this document: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf) being a complete disaster is garbage. The test was a failure, but the causes of failure were fairly well understood and were the result of excessive turbulence and wind shear blowing off some of the protective char that was intended to remain in place. To say the heat was so high they could not record the temperature values is bollocks. Some of the thermocouples got hotter than their calibrated values or ceased to function, but there are whole graphs full of temperature data throughout the test in the document appendices.
Also, there were several other tests conducted which were successful - the fact that they don't come up as the top document when you Google "apollo heat shield test" was probably enough to put you off looking any further.

I meant NASA article of 1968 I mentioned earlied. Bro', if you're a human, not a malfunctioning bot, you'll be able to read my previous post about that heat shield test, with the quotations from the article. By the way, the article is very good, and I provided the link.

Why I doubt you're a human? Simply because you're apparently not able to read and/or understand the document you've pointed to. It clearly says:

"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
 :P

Anyway, I am glad you're perfectly satisfied with the lunar basil story.
 :P
 8)
 ;D
I didn't follow any links provided by you - I did my own research and went directly to the source material.
You reveal your ignorance here. A catastrophic failure in this context means a failure of the heat shield which would have resulted in danger to the capsule. The fact that you think this is interchangeable with "the whole test was a complete disaster" shows you either didn't read or didn't understand the details of that failure.
I imagine you also didn't read page 9 of the results which says that the heat shield did not remain hemispherical throughout the test, hence "this failure cannot be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed for the hemispherical nose shape". In other words, if the aerodynamic effects were as originally predicted, then the shield shoudn't have failed. However, they weren't, because of uneven surface recession, so the turbulence exceeded that which was predicted. Clear enough for you?
I will quote here from the conclusion: "Although many uncertainties are present in the analysis, the removal of the char layer by aerodynamic shear was believed to be the controlling mechanism for surface recession."

I never read anything about lunar basil.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 07, 2016, 03:18:21 PM

(ii) in 1968 NASA tested their lunar mission "heat shield". At the re-entry, it was disappearing at the rate of about 5 mm/s. The heat was so high they could not even record the temperature values. After 90 or so seconds of the re-entry the heat shield was burned through, the spaceship was burned through and the test had ended with a complete disaster. I could not find any reports about the successful testing of the heat shield before the Moon landing fairy tale, yet in 1969 they triumphantly "returned" from the Moon. How?


Well done for your tabloid style piece of misrepresentation. Firstly, your description of the test (I assume from this document: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf) being a complete disaster is garbage. The test was a failure, but the causes of failure were fairly well understood and were the result of excessive turbulence and wind shear blowing off some of the protective char that was intended to remain in place. To say the heat was so high they could not record the temperature values is bollocks. Some of the thermocouples got hotter than their calibrated values or ceased to function, but there are whole graphs full of temperature data throughout the test in the document appendices.
Also, there were several other tests conducted which were successful - the fact that they don't come up as the top document when you Google "apollo heat shield test" was probably enough to put you off looking any further.

I meant NASA article of 1968 I mentioned earlied. Bro', if you're a human, not a malfunctioning bot, you'll be able to read my previous post about that heat shield test, with the quotations from the article. By the way, the article is very good, and I provided the link.

Why I doubt you're a human? Simply because you're apparently not able to read and/or understand the document you've pointed to. It clearly says:

"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
 :P

Anyway, I am glad you're perfectly satisfied with the lunar basil story.
 :P
 8)
 ;D
I didn't follow any links provided by you - I did my own research and went directly to the source material.
You reveal your ignorance here. A catastrophic failure in this context means a failure of the heat shield which would have resulted in danger to the capsule. The fact that you think this is interchangeable with "the whole test was a complete disaster" shows you either didn't read or didn't understand the details of that failure.
I imagine you also didn't read page 9 of the results which says that the heat shield did not remain hemispherical throughout the test, hence "this failure cannot be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed for the hemispherical nose shape". In other words, if the aerodynamic effects were as originally predicted, then the shield shoudn't have failed. However, they weren't, because of uneven surface recession, so the turbulence exceeded that which was predicted. Clear enough for you?
I will quote here from the conclusion: "Although many uncertainties are present in the analysis, the removal of the char layer by aerodynamic shear was believed to be the controlling mechanism for surface recession."

I never read anything about lunar basil.

C'mon, man. Let's be serious. (And Kami, too.) I myself did not expect the situation with that freaking "heat shield" was so bad. They had a hole in their spaceship in about 90 seconds. In August 1968, 10 months or so before the launch "to the Moon". Just imagine, 11,000 C, may be higher. Twice the temperature of the Sun, may be higher.

"At 95.5 seconds, the thermocouple on the bulkhead inside the model exceeded the range for which it was calibrated. This was probably due to hot gases entering the model interior through a hole burned through the inconel skin of the nose cap."


What they could do?

Nothing.

There is no material that could sustain 11,000 C plasma a few inches away, for a few minutes necessary for the "re-entry". They could not even collect the temperature distribution data - do you know why? Read the article, again.

Because their sensors evaporated faster then they could send the data, that's why.

Once again, if you did not get it - TWICE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE SUN.

What can you do - NOTHING. Just watch the sensors evaporating. What else? It is not a funny freaking game with the gullible Americans ready to swallow anything from NASA. IT'S REAL. TWICE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE SUN. OMG!!!!!

Now.

They had about 10 months before the launch to the Moon. They might build the spaceship in a month or two. They might test it for a month or two. They might train the crew in a month or two, plus a month or two to fix the glitches. What is left? Maximum, 6 months.

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 m/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!

That is why they brought the sand from Arizona or wherever - to Hollywood film studio or wherever, - and started to make their footage about "Apollo missions". Here, on Earth, of course. There was no flight to the Moon, don't you understand that?

That's how 20B$ (1969) turned into

BS

 ::)

I never read anything about lunar basil.

Enjoy:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66674.0
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 07, 2016, 03:44:18 PM

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 km/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!


This is hysterical.
Within two minutes of firing up Google, I had found a summary of mission tests, including those of command modules in atmosphere - it looks like there were ten altogether. Within another two minutes, I had the technical reports from one of those missions in front of me, detailing that the heat shield test was successful.
It seems you're not even capable of using a simple search engine, so I will leave it to the good people of the forum to make up their own minds about whether there were indeed heat shield tests, or whether there were NONE!! NONE!! NONE!!! as you claim. They are free to look on Google as I did.
Good day, sir.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Username on June 07, 2016, 03:54:19 PM

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 km/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!


This is hysterical.
Within two minutes of firing up Google, I had found a summary of mission tests, including those of command modules in atmosphere - it looks like there were ten altogether. Within another two minutes, I had the technical reports from one of those missions in front of me, detailing that the heat shield test was successful.
It seems you're not even capable of using a simple search engine, so I will leave it to the good people of the forum to make up their own minds about whether there were indeed heat shield tests, or whether there were NONE!! NONE!! NONE!!! as you claim. They are free to look on Google as I did.
Good day, sir.
Google showed it to me, so its true. Might as well get your truth from the tele!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 07, 2016, 04:03:13 PM

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 km/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!


This is hysterical.
Within two minutes of firing up Google, I had found a summary of mission tests, including those of command modules in atmosphere - it looks like there were ten altogether. Within another two minutes, I had the technical reports from one of those missions in front of me, detailing that the heat shield test was successful.
It seems you're not even capable of using a simple search engine, so I will leave it to the good people of the forum to make up their own minds about whether there were indeed heat shield tests, or whether there were NONE!! NONE!! NONE!!! as you claim. They are free to look on Google as I did.
Good day, sir.
Google showed it to me, so its true. Might as well get your truth from the tele!

Firstly Mr Davis, let me remind you that my opponent in this debate is using "I can't find any documentation on the internet" as his method of proof that there were no heat shield tests conducted and that therefore the lunar landings did not happen. You must concede that is a step lower than my method of proof.
Secondly, it is impossible to zetetically verify things that happened before you were born. To take your logic to its ultimate conclusion, the universe did not exist before the date of your earliest memory. At some point you have to set a standard of acceptable evidence. (And do please bear in mind that if you continue with this tack I am going to remind you of it every time you cite a reference from before you were alive.)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Username on June 07, 2016, 04:08:04 PM
Fair enough Neil =-).
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 07, 2016, 04:33:09 PM

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 km/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!


This is hysterical.
Within two minutes of firing up Google, I had found a summary of mission tests, including those of command modules in atmosphere - it looks like there were ten altogether. Within another two minutes, I had the technical reports from one of those missions in front of me, detailing that the heat shield test was successful.
It seems you're not even capable of using a simple search engine, so I will leave it to the good people of the forum to make up their own minds about whether there were indeed heat shield tests, or whether there were NONE!! NONE!! NONE!!! as you claim. They are free to look on Google as I did.
Good day, sir.

Well, I did not just look on Google, like you, I digged into that. Besides, it's not me. Wikipedia, for example, shows nothing within 6 months from the only real test that was performed.

If you still can not understand the situation:

it's freaking 11,000 degrees K. Or 19,340 degrees F.

So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969,

 ;D ;D ;D

Otherwise,

HOW DID THEY RETURN FROM THE MOON???

 ::)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 07, 2016, 04:58:04 PM
my opponent in this debate is using "I can't find any documentation on the internet" as his method of proof that there were no heat shield tests conducted and that therefore the lunar landings did not happen. You must concede that is a step lower than my method of proof.

This is just stupid. The debate is about NASA lying, as far as I understand. If you're truly interested in the topic, just watch their celebrated movie, "For All Mankind". NASA so solemnly assures it was filmed on the Moon, - obviously, it weren't... Oops! The Youtube banned this movie in my collection because of its content. According to Youtube, it may have happened because the movie is:

(i) Pornographic;
(ii) Violent;
(iii) Misleading etc.

Enjoy the story:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65536.0

Another one: both RE and FE sides agreed that at least a part of the apparatus claimed by NASA to be in space - has never been to space:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65578.0

Again, I'm very glad to humbly remark that the NASA basil lunacy caused no comments of yours.
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 08, 2016, 12:21:14 AM
Quote

Well, I did not just look on Google, like you, I digged into that. Besides, it's not me. Wikipedia, for example, shows nothing within 6 months from the only real test that was performed.

If you still can not understand the situation:

it's freaking 11,000 degrees K.

So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969,
 ;D ;D ;D

Otherwise,

HOW DID THEY RETURN FROM THE MOON???

 ::)

You are asking this question with very little understanding of how that heat interacts with a capsule. It seems you misunderstand how heat shields, re-entry and what that test was all about.

- First, that test you are referring to was not testing an Apollo heat shield, it was testing an ablative material used on an Apollo capsule. If you read the report you find that the ablative material actually performed better than expected. There is more to designing a capsule than ablative shielding, you’re completely ignoring the aerodynamic design.

 - The shape of the test heat shield was massively different than the shape of the Apollo capsule, and was done so on purpose. The test wanted to push the material to its limits to TEST it. Apollo capsules must obviously survive, so they use safe designs. Ill get into the shape a bit more later.

 - Read the document and find the term "stagnation point". Stagnation point is basically the point where the pressure build between the capsule balances out to incoming air, meaning that air is mostly still or "stagnant" at that point. Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point. Those gasses come from the atmosphere and the ablative shield. This area between the stagnation point at the shield is important in protecting the capsule.

I'm going to give you a real life example you can test at home right now to show you how this works.
Go heat a stove plate (glass tops are the best) or any flat surface that can go way above 120'C. Drop some water (drop sized) on the hot surface and watch what happens. The water does not instantly evaporate, it dances over the surface. That is because the water touching the surface instantly evaporates insulating the rest of the drop from the heat. This is called the leidenfrost effect, and well designed heat shields with ablative shielding work just like that,

-   Capsule shape determines how air moves around the capsule, and where the stagnation point is. Long story short, a pointy object enters faster getting hotter, a rounded “blunt” object has a bigger surface area, and pushes the stagnation point further out.
The images below show you where the stagnation point is. It is where the pressure is maximised between the capsule and incoming air. The pacemaker test vehicle was designed like example 1."initial concept" and Apollo was the 1957 shape.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Blunt_body_reentry_shapes.png/1024px-Blunt_body_reentry_shapes.png)
- The test capsule was designed that the nose part was touching this stagnation point. They did this to see how it would react to the temperatures. This would be a terrible design for a manned capsule.


Here is the nose of the Pacemaker vehicle that they used to test the ablative material. Notice the stagnation point on the surface of the capsule.
(http://i.imgur.com/8TVj56O.png)

If you want a safe design you would make sure the stagnation point is as far away from the surface as possible. That is what they did with Apollo and all subsequent landers.

This is the Apollo shape.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Apollo_Block1_CM.PNG)

The stagnation point of Apollo was about 500mm away from the surface of the heat shield. So the heat shields job is much easier than simply 11000K, its closer to 1500k (not sure about exact temperatures)


Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 08, 2016, 03:50:34 AM
Meh.

Funny how in real-life hypersonic wind tunnel tests your 'blunt bodies' melt far quicker than 'pointy' designs...

Then there's the problem of keeping the 'blunt body' capsules stable when travelling through the atmosphere rather than simply flipping to present the more streamlined end to the airflow (path of least resistance you know?)...

Though they'd probably just tumble out of control as the entire thing would be a fiery mess of molten death within seconds anyway.

So I guess we can just file your whole post - of which I am sure you are most inordinately proud - in the category of 'NASA Lies'.

Thanks for that!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 08, 2016, 05:33:34 AM
Meh.

Funny how in real-life hypersonic wind tunnel tests your 'blunt bodies' melt far quicker than 'pointy' designs...

Then there's the problem of keeping the 'blunt body' capsules stable when travelling through the atmosphere rather than simply flipping to present the more streamlined end to the airflow (path of least resistance you know?)...

Though they'd probably just tumble out of control as the entire thing would be a fiery mess of molten death within seconds anyway.

So I guess we can just file your whole post - of which I am sure you are most inordinately proud - in the category of 'NASA Lies'.

Thanks for that!
Sorry, I think I missed the part where you added citations for your statements.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 08, 2016, 05:54:34 AM
Actually Mr Papa. If you knew anything about aerodynamics you should know that the apollo capsules where aerodynamicly stable. Needed zero additional stability. Unless of course you think rain drops fall pointy side down?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 08, 2016, 09:23:40 AM
Actually Mr Papa. If you knew anything about aerodynamics you should know that the apollo capsules where aerodynamicly stable. Needed zero additional stability. Unless of course you think rain drops fall pointy side down?

Raindrops are spherical, dickhead.

But the mere fact that you are comparing the behaviour of a Fluid to a Solid shows the bankruptcy of your position.

There is clearly no end to your lies...

Or NASA's.

Who you work for...

Don't you, markjo?

Toodle-pip, Liar.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: sokarul on June 08, 2016, 10:12:55 AM
Actually Mr Papa. If you knew anything about aerodynamics you should know that the apollo capsules where aerodynamicly stable. Needed zero additional stability. Unless of course you think rain drops fall pointy side down?

Raindrops are spherical, dickhead.

But the mere fact that you are comparing the behaviour of a Fluid to a Solid shows the bankruptcy of your position.

There is clearly no end to your lies...

Or NASA's.

Who you work for...

Don't you, markjo?

Toodle-pip, Liar.
Raindrops start out spherical but do not end spherical.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 08, 2016, 11:12:41 AM
Quote

Well, I did not just look on Google, like you, I digged into that. Besides, it's not me. Wikipedia, for example, shows nothing within 6 months from the only real test that was performed.

If you still can not understand the situation:

it's freaking 11,000 degrees K.

So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969,
 ;D ;D ;D

Otherwise,

HOW DID THEY RETURN FROM THE MOON???

 ::)

You are asking this question with very little understanding of how that heat interacts with a capsule. It seems you misunderstand how heat shields, re-entry and what that test was all about.

- First, that test you are referring to was not testing an Apollo heat shield, it was testing an ablative material used on an Apollo capsule. If you read the report you find that the ablative material actually performed better than expected. There is more to designing a capsule than ablative shielding, you’re completely ignoring the aerodynamic design.

 - The shape of the test heat shield was massively different than the shape of the Apollo capsule, and was done so on purpose. The test wanted to push the material to its limits to TEST it. Apollo capsules must obviously survive, so they use safe designs. Ill get into the shape a bit more later.

 - Read the document and find the term "stagnation point". Stagnation point is basically the point where the pressure build between the capsule balances out to incoming air, meaning that air is mostly still or "stagnant" at that point. Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point. Those gasses come from the atmosphere and the ablative shield. This area between the stagnation point at the shield is important in protecting the capsule.

I'm going to give you a real life example you can test at home right now to show you how this works.
Go heat a stove plate (glass tops are the best) or any flat surface that can go way above 120'C. Drop some water (drop sized) on the hot surface and watch what happens. The water does not instantly evaporate, it dances over the surface. That is because the water touching the surface instantly evaporates insulating the rest of the drop from the heat. This is called the leidenfrost effect, and well designed heat shields with ablative shielding work just like that,

-   Capsule shape determines how air moves around the capsule, and where the stagnation point is. Long story short, a pointy object enters faster getting hotter, a rounded “blunt” object has a bigger surface area, and pushes the stagnation point further out.
The images below show you where the stagnation point is. It is where the pressure is maximised between the capsule and incoming air. The pacemaker test vehicle was designed like example 1."initial concept" and Apollo was the 1957 shape.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Blunt_body_reentry_shapes.png/1024px-Blunt_body_reentry_shapes.png)
- The test capsule was designed that the nose part was touching this stagnation point. They did this to see how it would react to the temperatures. This would be a terrible design for a manned capsule.


Here is the nose of the Pacemaker vehicle that they used to test the ablative material. Notice the stagnation point on the surface of the capsule.
(http://i.imgur.com/8TVj56O.png)

If you want a safe design you would make sure the stagnation point is as far away from the surface as possible. That is what they did with Apollo and all subsequent landers.

This is the Apollo shape.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Apollo_Block1_CM.PNG)

The stagnation point of Apollo was about 500mm away from the surface of the heat shield. So the heat shields job is much easier than simply 11000K, its closer to 1500k (not sure about exact temperatures)

Dear MaNaeSWolf,

You are trying to answer a simple question with no understanding of it at all. Obviously, you did not bother to check the links I've provided, - much less to familiarize yourself with what was said before in that discussion. Therefore, it is not surprising what you are writing simply makes no sense.

Look. Here's your example:

"I'm going to give you a real life example you can test at home right now to show you how this works.
Go heat a stove plate (glass tops are the best) or any flat surface that can go way above 120'C. Drop some water (drop sized) on the hot surface and watch what happens. The water does not instantly evaporate, it dances over the surface. That is because the water touching the surface instantly evaporates insulating the rest of the drop from the heat. This is called the leidenfrost effect, and well designed heat shields with ablative shielding work just like that,"


So, according to you, well designed heat shields with ablative shielding work just like that: they melt, evaporate and those vapours keep the heat out of the spaceship. Or the whole spaceship melts, turns into a liquid and dances on that 11,000 K hot plate? How about the crew?

"If you read the report you find that the ablative material actually performed better than expected."

 ;D ;D ;D

If you read the report you find that they had a hole in their spaceship model in 95.5 seconds of the re-entry. NASA called that "a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material". You called that "better than expected".
 ::)

etc. etc. etc. ...

BS, BS, BS ...
 
Sorry, dear MaNaeSWolf, but I must ask you:

Which of the pictures and data you've presented above refer to a successful testing of Apollo capsule re-entry at 11,000 m/s, from August 1968 to May 1969?

Do you understand the question?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 08, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
If they were expecting a hole in the heat shield that caused catastrophic failure after only 60 seconds then a time of 95.5 seconds would indeed be considered 'better than expected'.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 08, 2016, 11:29:46 AM
They never tested an apollo capsule. They tested the ablative material for the capsule. Thats from the document that was linked to. Either it was the wrong document then I ask apology and that you relink the document, or the apollo capsule was less that 1 cubic m in volume and purposely designed to fail.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 08, 2016, 11:32:51 AM
Oh. And concerning the lindenfrost effect. Please read up about it to understand what I was referring to. It's a process that protects the water drop from the heat. It's something you can do at home and fairly interesting.

Without the effect a water drop should evaporate within milliseconds. But the liedenfrost effect keeps it cool for much longer. Heat Shields do the same with a similar ablative effect
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 08, 2016, 11:41:25 AM
Why is everyone making such a big deal about flies? 
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 08, 2016, 11:44:17 AM
lindenfrost effect... liedenfrost effect...

You do not even know how to spell the utter bullshit you spam.

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 08, 2016, 11:50:41 AM
lindenfrost effect... liedenfrost effect...

You do not even know how to spell the utter bullshit you spam.

Hey it's Papa, or is it clippy from 1997,so hard to tell, so much in common.

Either way, im so glad you went and Google the liedenfrost effect, it's probably where you also learnt to spell it.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 08, 2016, 12:14:26 PM
Didn't need to google it.

Because I'm not a retard like you.

Who's now falling to bits when under pressure btw...

As usual.

Let's laugh at some more of your bullshit while we're here:

Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

The Lies pile up thick & fast don't they, shilly-boy?

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 08, 2016, 04:43:27 PM
lindenfrost effect... liedenfrost effect...

You do not even know how to spell the utter bullshit you spam.
And you are such a wonderful fellow. We are just so lucky to have someone so  :P perfect in every way :P !
Quote from: Anthony Drewe
So people say
Each virtue virtually knows no bound each trait is great and patiently sound
I'm practically perfect from head to toe
If I had a fault it would never dare to show
I'm so practically perfect in every way.


with apologies to Mary Poppins®!

 ;D Or maybe this is closer:  ;D
Quote from: Mac Davis
I can't wait
To look in the mirror.
Cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me.
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can.

Papa do you wear dark glasses when looking in the mirror, so yo don't blind yourself in the glare of your own perfection.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 08, 2016, 05:35:39 PM
"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
A catastrophic failure of the heat-shield is no catastrophic failure of the test. I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test which was used to improve heat-shields to make them work like they do today.

Dear Kami, what an interesting style you have. Mild, rhythmic, pleasant, elegant, well-balanced, graceful... Too good for a... Wait a minute... Whom I see and hear from behind the lines is a... young lady!
  ::)
Unless I am mistaken, of course...
 8)
 ;)

Anyway, that hole in the spaceship per se normally would not mean much. They were testing the new material, it failed, so what. The problem is that there are no further reports about successful 11,000 m/s Apollo module re-entry tests before the Moon story and they did not have much time before the launch... so, how would they return if they were walking on the Moon? Or... were they?
 ::)

"I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test..."
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 08, 2016, 09:06:07 PM
So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969
You're probably thinking about the unmanned Apollo 4 mission, conducted on Nov. 9, 1967.
https://archive.org/details/nasa_techdoc_19900066482

The tl;dr version:
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_4#Objectives
The mission was the first launch from the Kennedy Space Center Launch Complex 39, specifically built for the Saturn V. Since this was an all-up test, it was the S-IC first stage and S-II second stage's first launch. It would also be the first time that the S-IVB third stage would be restarted in Earth orbit, and the first time that the Apollo spacecraft would reenter the Earth's atmosphere at the speed of a lunar return trajectory.

The unmanned Apollo 6 (April 4, 1968) also tested reentry, but only from about 10,000 m/s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_6#Orbit

Granted, neither flight was in your arbitrary time range, but I think that was probably just you showing off your ignorance yet again.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 08, 2016, 11:31:50 PM
"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
A catastrophic failure of the heat-shield is no catastrophic failure of the test. I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test which was used to improve heat-shields to make them work like they do today.

Dear Kami, what an interesting style you have. Mild, rhythmic, pleasant, elegant, well-balanced, graceful... Too good for a... Wait a minute... Whom I see and hear from behind the lines is a... young lady!
  ::)
Unless I am mistaken, of course...
 8)
 ;)

Anyway, that hole in the spaceship per se normally would not mean much. They were testing the new material, it failed, so what. The problem is that there are no further reports about successful 11,000 m/s Apollo module re-entry tests before the Moon story and they did not have much time before the launch... so, how would they return if they were walking on the Moon? Or... were they?
 ::)

"I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test..."
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.
Well.. thank you.. i guess?
Although I have to disappoint you, I am no young lady  ;D
The reason for this style might be that I have to put some thought to my grammar as I am no native speaker..

as for the test, MaNaeSWolf and markjo posted some documents, though I personally did not have the time to read them (except for the tldr, of course)

Edit: even a negative Test result can be useful. At least you know you need to improve your ablative Material. Also, i think I remember i read that only some of the Sensors had failed
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 09, 2016, 12:51:00 AM
Think of it this way. Cars are crashed to test their safety. If you don't break them you won't know what they can do.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 09, 2016, 01:54:38 AM
Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

LMFAO!!!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 09, 2016, 04:34:54 AM
Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

LMFAO!!!

Well constructed argument....
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 09, 2016, 04:39:07 AM
Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

LMFAO!!!

Well constructed argument....

Well constructed shitpost.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on June 09, 2016, 04:43:56 AM

Well constructed argument....

Well constructed shitpost.


(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjcZlaoC3K_MBtLyKrlVOmdlrrMugf08h_IkxoGBKBPT3BOHYB2Drft1ck)

Well constructed well
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 09, 2016, 04:46:27 AM
Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

Poorly constructed Lie.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 09, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.

Apart from the whole graphfuls of data that are in the appendix, which I already pointed out to you.
You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 09, 2016, 01:07:24 PM
You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?

LOL!!!

Read this:

Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.

Not only do you shills not know when you've been beaten, you don't even know how or why...

That's what you get for copy-pasting NASA Lies as if you thought of them yourselves.

You poor shit-at-your-shit-job bastards.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 09, 2016, 01:56:31 PM
So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969
You're probably thinking about the unmanned Apollo 4 mission, conducted on Nov. 9, 1967.
https://archive.org/details/nasa_techdoc_19900066482

The tl;dr version:
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_4#Objectives
The mission was the first launch from the Kennedy Space Center Launch Complex 39, specifically built for the Saturn V. Since this was an all-up test, it was the S-IC first stage and S-II second stage's first launch. It would also be the first time that the S-IVB third stage would be restarted in Earth orbit, and the first time that the Apollo spacecraft would reenter the Earth's atmosphere at the speed of a lunar return trajectory.

The unmanned Apollo 6 (April 4, 1968) also tested reentry, but only from about 10,000 m/s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_6#Orbit

Granted, neither flight was in your arbitrary time range, but I think that was probably just you showing off your ignorance yet again.

So, dear markjo, first you post irrelevant data. Then, you openly admit their irrelevance. After which you make your conclusion about me showing off my ignorance yet again.

Initially, I wanted to answer: "Aren't you a moron?"

Let's put it mildly:

Are you all right, dear markjo?
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 09, 2016, 02:34:49 PM
"Apparently, a catastrophic failure of the heat-shield material occurred during the latter portion of the data period. However, this failure cannot
be related to the changing environmental conditions that were computed
for the hemispherical nose shape."

Sure, you might call that test a "catastrophic failure", not a "complete disaster", should you prefer.
A catastrophic failure of the heat-shield is no catastrophic failure of the test. I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test which was used to improve heat-shields to make them work like they do today.

Dear Kami, what an interesting style you have. Mild, rhythmic, pleasant, elegant, well-balanced, graceful... Too good for a... Wait a minute... Whom I see and hear from behind the lines is a... young lady!
  ::)
Unless I am mistaken, of course...
 8)
 ;)

Anyway, that hole in the spaceship per se normally would not mean much. They were testing the new material, it failed, so what. The problem is that there are no further reports about successful 11,000 m/s Apollo module re-entry tests before the Moon story and they did not have much time before the launch... so, how would they return if they were walking on the Moon? Or... were they?
 ::)

"I am quite certain that very useful data was derived from this test..."
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.
Well.. thank you.. i guess?
Although I have to disappoint you, I am no young lady  ;D
The reason for this style might be that I have to put some thought to my grammar as I am no native speaker..

as for the test, MaNaeSWolf and markjo posted some documents, though I personally did not have the time to read them (except for the tldr, of course)

Edit: even a negative Test result can be useful. At least you know you need to improve your ablative Material. Also, i think I remember i read that only some of the Sensors had failed

"Although I have to disappoint you, I am no young lady  ;D"
I've already figured that out and am not disappointed. I mean, my impression is that the style clearly shows a powerful and beneficial feminine influence. So, the simplest yet plausible explanation would be that the author is constantly thinking about the object of his admiration and sometimes concentrates on her with such an ardour that the girl almost materializes, - which, naturally, reflects on the style of his writing. Though this is a very preliminary hypothesis, of course...
 ::)

"Also, i think I remember i read that only some of the Sensors had failed"

Nope. All of them subdued to the utmost impetuosity of unimaginable heat:

"During the data period, it is conjectured, the heat-shield material was removed so rapidly that a sharp temperature gradient existed near the surface of the material. Therefore, the thermocouples embedded in the material showed no responses until the surface receded to their locations. Then their responses, as indicated on the thermocouple traces, were either a deflection beyond the full-scale calibration signal, or hash indicating a broken junction. As a result, no temperature histories in the material were obtained."

So, in August 1968 NASA had no real re-entry temperature data for the Apollo shield material. And no more tests before the launch to the Moon... How did they improve the material and how did they make the shield without knowing the temperatures it was supposed to protect from? How did they return from the Moon in 1969?
 ::)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 09, 2016, 02:42:29 PM
Are you all right, dear markjo?

He is pushing 100 years old and thinks the world is round.  Do you think he is alright?  He is lucky if he figures out how to turn his computer on.  lol
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 09, 2016, 06:29:27 PM
So, dear markjo, first you post irrelevant data. Then, you openly admit their irrelevance. After which you make your conclusion about me showing off my ignorance yet again.
What was so important about your arbitrary time frame for the heat shield tests?  The fact is that there were 2 unmanned test missions that tested the command module heat shield at or near lunar mission reentry speeds.  Does the fact that those tests happened before August 1968 invalidate them for some reason or other?

BTW, the manned Apollo 8 mission was in December of 1968, well within your arbitrary time frame.

So, in August 1968 NASA had no real re-entry temperature data for the Apollo shield material.
Incorrect.  I just told you that they had real world test data collected from the reentry of the Apollo 4 and Apollo 6 test flights.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 09, 2016, 09:44:53 PM
Are you all right, dear markjo?
 ;D ;D ;D
Still providing free uncalled-for psychoanalysis, I see. I hope you appreciate that I referred Papa Legba to your free service.
He seems to have some sort of OCD problem in that he goes into a near infinite loop of "copying and pasting" the same thing over and over whenever anyone disagrees with anything he says (which is all the time)!

But, as you well know I'm just a tyro in this and you practice it so often, so I sure Papa would benefit from your ministrations.

 ;D  ;D Much appreciated.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2016, 05:40:28 AM

So, show me the NASA reports on successful heat shield testings at 11,000 km/s and 11,000 K dated up to 6 months from August, 1968. THERE IS NONE. NONE! NONE!!!

NONE!!!!!!


This is hysterical.
Within two minutes of firing up Google, I had found a summary of mission tests, including those of command modules in atmosphere - it looks like there were ten altogether. Within another two minutes, I had the technical reports from one of those missions in front of me, detailing that the heat shield test was successful.
It seems you're not even capable of using a simple search engine, so I will leave it to the good people of the forum to make up their own minds about whether there were indeed heat shield tests, or whether there were NONE!! NONE!! NONE!!! as you claim. They are free to look on Google as I did.
Good day, sir.

Well, I did not just look on Google, like you, I digged(sic) into that. Besides, it's not me. Wikipedia, for example, shows nothing within 6 months from the only real test that was performed.

If you still can not understand the situation:

it's freaking 11,000 degrees K. Or 19,340 degrees F.

So, just show me the NASA report about successful testing of their heat shield at 11,000 m/s re-entry, dated from August 1968 to May 1969,

 ;D ;D ;D

Otherwise,

HOW DID THEY RETURN FROM THE MOON???

 ::)
HOW DID THEY RETURN FROM THE MOON???
They were using an ablative heatshield (unlike the Shuttle), which kept they hot plasma from the vehicle by gradually burning away!
And, obviously they finally got it working. That is what the tests were for.

I think you're shouting. I think you must be getting a little emotional on this issue. This is not good for you blood pressure.

I could refer you to comeone who free psychiatric help (whether asked for of not). His name is Humble_Scientist.

Oops, I just noticed that you are this Humble_Scientist, seems you have lost a bit of that legendary humility - not that you have EVER shown any.
Maybe you could do with a name change to "The_Hypocritical_Humble_Scientist" - that's more like it!

As they say "Physician Heal Thyself".
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2016, 05:44:30 AM
Are you all right, dear markjo?

He is pushing 100 years old and thinks the world is round.  Do you think he is alright?  He is lucky if he figures out how to turn his computer on.  lol

Well, what's wrong with your computer, whenever you turn it on it spews out invective and garbage,
but then when we used to say in the "olden days" of computing, that computers were GIGO memories - Garbage In Garbage Out!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Pongo on June 10, 2016, 05:53:12 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

Do you have any evidence that when NASA says they have a satellite in polar orbit, they don't?

Are you asking me to prove a negative? Come back when you've had a course in logic.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Kami on June 10, 2016, 06:56:03 AM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

Do you have any evidence that when NASA says they have a satellite in polar orbit, they don't?

Are you asking me to prove a negative? Come back when you've had a course in logic.
Proving a negative is not always impossible. If I said: prove that yellow elephants do not exist, then you would be unable to do so. But if I said: prove that this specific elephant (while showing a picture or something like that) does not exist the way I describe it, it is possible. That's exactly what NASA does. They have datasheets about their polar satellites and there are even live-maps online, which show every satellite's position.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 10, 2016, 06:29:11 PM
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.

Apart from the whole graphfuls of data that are in the appendix, which I already pointed out to you.
You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?

"You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?"

You must be speaking to yourself, dear Dinosaur Neil...

 ;D ;D ;D
 
Where are the real temperature data?
 8)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 10, 2016, 06:45:20 PM
So, dear markjo, first you post irrelevant data. Then, you openly admit their irrelevance. After which you make your conclusion about me showing off my ignorance yet again.
What was so important about your arbitrary time frame for the heat shield tests?  The fact is that there were 2 unmanned test missions that tested the command module heat shield at or near lunar mission reentry speeds.  Does the fact that those tests happened before August 1968 invalidate them for some reason or other?

BTW, the manned Apollo 8 mission was in December of 1968, well within your arbitrary time frame.

So, in August 1968 NASA had no real re-entry temperature data for the Apollo shield material.
Incorrect.  I just told you that they had real world test data collected from the reentry of the Apollo 4 and Apollo 6 test flights.

"What was so important about your arbitrary time frame for the heat shield tests?" etc.

It's not mine. Just read the article, dear markjo. The NASA article says they were testing the material for the Apollo mission heatshield, in August 1968, at 11 km/s re-entry. They created the material for the test and do not mention testing it before, at 11 km/s. They mention only one earlier launch, but not with that material. Apparently, this is the beginning of the Apollo mission heat shield story time frame, correct?

As its end, I would rather choose the moment reasonably close to that launch to the Moon. Say, May 1969. 'Cause they must have had the heat shield ready, successfully tested at 11 km/s re-entry and installed before going to the Moon, correct? So, where are those successful test(s) data?

Or... Do you think they developed the Apollo heat shield after Apollo started to the Moon?
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2016, 07:06:22 PM
As its end, I would rather choose the moment reasonably close to that launch to the Moon. Say, May 1969. 'Cause they must have had the heat shield ready, successfully tested at 11 km/s re-entry and installed before going to the Moon, correct? So, where are those successful test(s) data?

Or... Do you think they developed the Apollo heat shield after Apollo started to the Moon?
 ;D ;D ;D
Just because the "Not_so_Humble_non_Scientist" can't find a reference to something 47 years later proves it didn't happen - tell me another!

:P :P We do think a lot of our own abilities don't we!  :P :P

Some people with a little less agenda and who were around (in time if not location) are a little less sceptical!

Were you listening to the Sputnik "beeps" in October 1957? Radio HAMS had great fun listening in 20.007 MHz (if my memory serves me correctly) popping up right in time around the world. In know, you will claim that the Russians had planes  ;D flying all over the world to fake it  ;D not likely with the cold war at the time!

But, you cannot admit to satellites or space travel or your Flat Earth gets flattened".
But, what about defending all the weaknesses of the alternative to the Globe
There are so many things it can't explain, without pure guesswork and "magic" that it's just a joke.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 10, 2016, 07:08:40 PM
Are you all right, dear markjo?
 ;D ;D ;D
Still providing free uncalled-for psychoanalysis, I see. I hope you appreciate that I referred Papa Legba to your free service.
He seems to have some sort of OCD problem in that he goes into a near infinite loop of "copying and pasting" the same thing over and over whenever anyone disagrees with anything he says (which is all the time)!

But, as you well know I'm just a tyro in this and you practice it so often, so I sure Papa would benefit from your ministrations.

 ;D  ;D Much appreciated.   ;D ;D

Wow. My dear rabinoz, what happened to you? It sounds like you're writing from some kind of asylum. What are you talking about?

Look, man. Say, you've built a "spaceship" and tested it. During re-entry, at 11 km/s, the heat shield material failed and there was a hole in the spaceship. You do not have even the real temperature data. What would you do next?

As to Papa Legba, whose majestic yet vigorous style and zeal are truly remarkable. Possibly, Papa Legba would call the whole story somewhat like "NA$A's shpazeship heat shield"... though I must confess I could hardly imagine what that great man would have invented for such an occasion.
 ::)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2016, 08:19:43 PM
Are you all right, dear markjo?
 ;D ;D ;D
Still providing free uncalled-for psychoanalysis, I see. I hope you appreciate that I referred Papa Legba to your free service.
He seems to have some sort of OCD problem in that he goes into a near infinite loop of "copying and pasting" the same thing over and over whenever anyone disagrees with anything he says (which is all the time)!

But, as you well know I'm just a tyro in this and you practice it so often, so I sure Papa would benefit from your ministrations.

 ;D  ;D Much appreciated.   ;D ;D

Wow. My dear rabinoz, what happened to you? It sounds like you're writing from some kind of asylum. What are you talking about?

Look, man. Say, you've built a "spaceship" and tested it. During re-entry, at 11 km/s, the heat shield material failed and there was a hole in the spaceship. You do not have even the real temperature data. What would you do next?

As to Papa Legba, whose majestic yet vigorous style and zeal are truly remarkable. Possibly, Papa Legba would call the whole story somewhat like "NA$A's shpazeship heat shield"... though I must confess I could hardly imagine what that great man would have invented for such an occasion.
 ::)

You claim "Wow. My dear rabinoz, what happened to you? It sounds like you're writing from some kind of asylum. What are you talking about?"
I don't think that's where I was. I thought if I was I would have met you there, but maybe it was a different asylum - there is more than one is there?

And yes "Say, you've built a "spaceship" and tested it. During re-entry, at 11 km/s, the heat shield material failed and there was a hole in the spaceship. You do not have even the real temperature data. What would you do next?"

Of course I would do it again, but does the wonderful "Humble_Scientist" have any evidence that they did not do exactly that. Just because YOU can't find it 47 years later is not proof that it did not exist.

I suppose that when you lose your car keys (you do drive I suppose) and can't find them, that you assume that they never existed - great "Humble_Scientist" logic that.

It's a bit like saying that "If the Humble_Scientist can't find something, it never existed and must have been a fake".

You really do have an overblown sense of you own abilities and importance don't you!

And your wonderful sense of humour just keeps us entertained with:
"Papa Legba, whose majestic yet vigorous style and zeal are truly remarkable. Possibly, Papa Legba would call the whole story somewhat like "NA$A's shpazeship heat shield"... though I must confess I could hardly imagine what that great man would have invented for such an occasion."

Almost as hilarious as the rubbish that "great man" has "invented for" many of his posts, and all without the slightest help from other sources and references - now that's inventiveness - maybe not related to fact, but so what!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 10, 2016, 08:43:03 PM
So, dear markjo, first you post irrelevant data. Then, you openly admit their irrelevance. After which you make your conclusion about me showing off my ignorance yet again.
What was so important about your arbitrary time frame for the heat shield tests?  The fact is that there were 2 unmanned test missions that tested the command module heat shield at or near lunar mission reentry speeds.  Does the fact that those tests happened before August 1968 invalidate them for some reason or other?

BTW, the manned Apollo 8 mission was in December of 1968, well within your arbitrary time frame.

So, in August 1968 NASA had no real re-entry temperature data for the Apollo shield material.
Incorrect.  I just told you that they had real world test data collected from the reentry of the Apollo 4 and Apollo 6 test flights.

"What was so important about your arbitrary time frame for the heat shield tests?" etc.

It's not mine. Just read the article, dear markjo. The NASA article says they were testing the material for the Apollo mission heatshield, in August 1968, at 11 km/s re-entry.
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on June 11, 2016, 06:15:11 AM
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.

Apart from the whole graphfuls of data that are in the appendix, which I already pointed out to you.
You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?

"You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?"

You must be speaking to yourself, dear Dinosaur Neil...

 ;D ;D ;D
 
Where are the real temperature data?
 8)

So you're saying that this document PROVES that NASA couldn't send a man to the moon, yet at the same time saying that some of the information presented within the document is false.
Right. OK.
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Copper Knickers on June 11, 2016, 03:11:14 PM
NASA never admits its lies, they just make the lie an industry standard. For example, if NASA says that they have a satellite in polar orbit, then everyone believes that they have a satellite in polar orbit. No need to prove this claim or anything, it just becomes "true."

Do you have any evidence that when NASA says they have a satellite in polar orbit, they don't?

Are you asking me to prove a negative? Come back when you've had a course in logic.

No, I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I'm asking you if you have any evidence that NASA has said they have a satellite in polar orbit when they don't. Implicitly, I'm also asking you to present such evidence. It seemed that implied in your original post was that this is one of the ways that NASA lies. If that wasn't your implication then fine, please clarify.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 11, 2016, 07:15:57 PM
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

Oh come on, you give the Not_very_Humble_Not_Much_of_a_Scientist a bit much credit.

Doesn't that report have sums and technical looking graph thingos in it? It's a bit much expecting him understand them!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 11, 2016, 07:57:06 PM
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

Oh come on, you give the Not_very_Humble_Not_Much_of_a_Scientist a bit much credit.

Doesn't that report have sums and technical looking graph thingos in it? It's a bit much expecting him understand them!
I think that it's a bit much expecting him to read enough of the report to figure out that the data that he's referring to was collected almost 3 years earlier.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 11, 2016, 08:03:17 PM
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

Oh come on, you give the Not_very_Humble_Not_Much_of_a_Scientist a bit much credit.

Doesn't that report have sums and technical looking graph thingos in it? It's a bit much expecting him understand them!
I think that it's a bit much expecting him to read enough of the report to figure out that the data that he's referring to was collected almost 3 years earlier.

Remember papa Legba is his hero and he considers him a great scholar. So that should let you know what you are dealing with.

Humble seems like a nice enough person, just misguided, uneducated or both.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 12, 2016, 01:59:26 AM
Wow. My dear rabinoz, what happened to you?

I happened to him.

I happened to all of them.

lol.

Anyhoo; NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law inasmuch as it claims both forces can be created on the same object & still produce motion.

Simple stuff...

Now watch the custard pies fly as all the Clowns go nuts.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 12, 2016, 04:11:01 AM
Wow. My dear rabinoz, what happened to you?

I happened to him.

I happened to all of them.

lol.

Anyhoo; NASA lies about Newton's 3rd Law inasmuch as it claims both forces can be created on the same object & still produce motion.

Simple stuff...

Now watch the custard pies fly as all the Clowns go nuts.
You happened to me? I don't see are after effects of this great happening!
And I never thought you had a sense of humour! Oh wait, you really think you are the Flat Earth Society's Prince on a White Charger riding to the rescue.
You certainly are the hero of SepticTank and Not_so_Humble_non_Scientest, but I can think of a lot better company.

Sure, I've got a few scars, but they're from honest work, pick and shovel style, not from duelling with St Papa the Dragon.

You really should go for stand up comedy, might be more effective at that.

Still, I guess you are performing wonderfully in the eyes of your greatest admirer,
Papa Legba
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 12, 2016, 04:29:52 AM
All of which mad ranting explains why NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law how, Geoff?

Perhaps you could explain in a mad ranting post in which you avoid the point whilst accusing me of mad ranting?

Or something?

As long as there's capering, clowning & custard pies I'll be happy anyhoo!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 12, 2016, 08:56:55 AM
Well, it depends on what data you're looking for. I hoped to find the real data on the temperature patterns, but the test generated none, for the sensors failed due to extreme heat.

Apart from the whole graphfuls of data that are in the appendix, which I already pointed out to you.
You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?

"You really don't understand when you've been beaten, do you?"

You must be speaking to yourself, dear Dinosaur Neil...

 ;D ;D ;D
 
Where are the real temperature data?
 8)

So you're saying that this document PROVES that NASA couldn't send a man to the moon, yet at the same time saying that some of the information presented within the document is false.
Right. OK.
 ;D

Dear Dinosaur Neil, it looks like you're suspecting me of some dark intentions. Perhaps, you're judging me by your own character. In fact, nope. Nothing of the sort. The article is very good and honest, as I've already said. Believe me, it's a scientific article, it surely can be trusted. I myself was writing scientific articles and I know how a good article looks. This one was written by good professionals, no doubt. Essentially, it says that in August 1968 NASA had no material for Apollo heat shield. Not only the shield, but even the material for it. The test catastrophically failed, that's it. They did not even have the temperature readings.

If, after that, you think they could send the man to the Moon and back, please enlighten me how did they do that. As far as I understand, without the heat shield it is impossible. Where are the data on their 11 km/s re-entry successful tests, of the material and of the shield?
 ;D ;D ;D
 ::)
 :P
 8)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 12, 2016, 09:40:25 AM
I myself was writing scientific articles and I know how a good article looks. This one was written by good professionals, no doubt. Essentially, it says that in August 1968 NASA had no material for Apollo heat shield.
No, it doesn't say that at all.  The report was released in August, 1968, but the experiment that it describes occurred in October, 1965.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 12, 2016, 09:40:48 AM
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

Oh come on, you give the Not_very_Humble_Not_Much_of_a_Scientist a bit much credit.

Doesn't that report have sums and technical looking graph thingos in it? It's a bit much expecting him understand them!
I think that it's a bit much expecting him to read enough of the report to figure out that the data that he's referring to was collected almost 3 years earlier.

Dear markjo and rabinoz, my clever friends,

I must say a great excitement of my RE brethren I'm observing is indeed flattering to me. However, I am such a humble, meek and shy creature... Let's concentrate on the article, for my mild, modest, indecisive and diffident person certainly does not deserve your attention.

I myself wanted to humbly ask you how could it happen that the test was performed in 1965, but it took 3 years for data processing and publication of the results. Or yet another strange thing, let's refresh our memory. The first page of the publication says: "August 1968". However, Page 12 is dated "May 21, 1968". So, it looks like they spent 3 months just to print that nice title page and graw a beatiful NASA logo... well, anyway, that's not the main issue I'd like to asked your opinion about.

That main problem is the following. If you, dear markjo and you, dear rabinoz, have ever bothered to actually read the publication our dear markjo so kindly referred to the rest of us:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf ,

you would have surely noticed that the test was not conducted at the re-entry, at 11 km/s.

For a brief moment, let us put aside that interesting fact that both of you have just proven, once again, the immense, mammoth, unimaginable scale of your incredible, stunning, breath-taking stupidity and ignorance. Can you read? Do you speak English? Have you ever seen a book? - we can discuss that later. Quite possibly, an average stone or a brick in the wall do have more intelligence and reason than both of you combined.

The very first table of the Appendix, on the Page 17, lists the "Sequence of the trajectory events". If you had brains, you might have already noticed that the maximum velocity of the model "shpazeship" (many thanks, Papa Legba!) was only 3,139 m/s and its maximum altitude was only 23,178 m.

So, that Apollo ablative or, rather, blablative heat shield material miserably failed and the hole in the "shpazeship" was produced in 95.5 seconds - even under those conditions.

Previously, I was asking, how could they go to the Moon. It's time to modify the question:

How could they even think about going to the Moon?
 ;D ;D ;D
 ::) ::) ::)
 :P :P :P
 8) 8) 8)

Sorry, Ladies and Gentlemen, now I must to laugh and roll on my Persian carpet. ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 12, 2016, 09:52:05 AM
I myself wanted to humbly ask you how could it happen that the test was performed in 1965, but it took 3 years for data processing and publication of the results. Or yet another strange thing, let's refresh our memory. The first page of the publication says: "August 1968". However, Page 12 is dated "May 21, 1968". So, it looks like they spent 3 months just to print that nice title page and graw a beatiful NASA logo... well, anyway, that's not the main issue I'd like to asked your opinion about.
Maybe they had other things on their minds at the time.  Things like working on the heat shield material.

That main problem is the following. If you, dear markjo and you, dear rabinoz, have ever bothered to actually read the publication our dear markjo so kindly referred to the rest of us:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf ,

you would have surely noticed that the test was not conducted at the re-entry, at 11 km/s.
Perhaps not, but the Apollo 4 command module reentry was.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 12, 2016, 03:41:04 PM
I myself wanted to humbly ask you how could it happen that the test was performed in 1965, but it took 3 years for data processing and publication of the results. Or yet another strange thing, let's refresh our memory. The first page of the publication says: "August 1968". However, Page 12 is dated "May 21, 1968". So, it looks like they spent 3 months just to print that nice title page and graw a beatiful NASA logo... well, anyway, that's not the main issue I'd like to asked your opinion about.
Maybe they had other things on their minds at the time.  Things like working on the heat shield material.

That main problem is the following. If you, dear markjo and you, dear rabinoz, have ever bothered to actually read the publication our dear markjo so kindly referred to the rest of us:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf ,

you would have surely noticed that the test was not conducted at the re-entry, at 11 km/s.
Perhaps not, but the Apollo 4 command module reentry was.

"Maybe they had other things on their minds at the time.  Things like working on the heat shield material".


At what time? Dear markjo, buddy, the data were processed and the report was finished in 1968. In August. How they could work on the heat shield material without knowing the results? How the Apollo module could re-enter at 11 km/s in 1967, if they did not even have the report on the temperatures at 3 km/s before August 1968?

Yeah, tell me yet another NASA fairy tale about the wonderful shpazeship and its blablative shield... Shed the stream of your wisdom, enlighten me... What was the shield made of, how did they test the material at 11 km/s, how did they build the shield, how did they test the shield and what were the temperatures... Tell me, man, let's laugh together again.
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 12, 2016, 04:04:23 PM
Ummm...  No.  The report was published in August, 1968.  The test took place in October, 1965.

Did you even read the report beyond what you cherry picked out of it?

Maybe you had better take another look at it to refresh your memory.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

Oh come on, you give the Not_very_Humble_Not_Much_of_a_Scientist a bit much credit.

Doesn't that report have sums and technical looking graph thingos in it? It's a bit much expecting him understand them!
I think that it's a bit much expecting him to read enough of the report to figure out that the data that he's referring to was collected almost 3 years earlier.

Remember papa Legba is his hero and he considers him a great scholar. So that should let you know what you are dealing with.

Humble seems like a nice enough person, just misguided, uneducated or both.

Thanks, man. There is quite a company here - what a place! I like reading many folks, you, for instance, or Papa Legba, or Kami, or Sir Richard... It is not just highly entertaining, but very practical, too. For example, when I met "The Original & Genuine Lea & Perrins Worcestershire Sauce", aged 18 months and prepared by appointment to Her Majesty the Queen, I instantly remembered Sir Richard's so celebrated lamb leg dinner, to which it would make such a great supplement. Thus, there was no question to buy it or not, and I must say, excellent sauce, I'm really enjoying it now.

To enjoy the style, as for me, it does not matter if somebody's a RE'er or a FE'er. A true talent and virtue are the most important traits. For these prevail, albeit the views might change.
 8)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 12, 2016, 04:27:08 PM
At what time? Dear markjo, buddy, the data were processed and the report was finished in 1968. In August. How they could work on the heat shield material without knowing the results? How the Apollo module could re-enter at 11 km/s in 1967, if they did not even have the report on the temperatures at 3 km/s before August 1968?
So you're saying that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?

I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 13, 2016, 01:56:33 PM
At what time? Dear markjo, buddy, the data were processed and the report was finished in 1968. In August. How they could work on the heat shield material without knowing the results? How the Apollo module could re-enter at 11 km/s in 1967, if they did not even have the report on the temperatures at 3 km/s before August 1968?
So you're saying that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?

I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work.

Dear markjo, my friend,

I was about to ask you again if you're all right, but have just remembered that jroa so clearly explained that here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66925.msg1788782#msg1788782 .

Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?

 ::)

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 13, 2016, 03:14:08 PM
Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?
Yes, I read that the experiment occurred in October of 1965. 

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
I mean that the people who conducted the experiment had access to the raw data almost immediately and were able to use that data to improve the heat shield shortly afterwards.

Don't forget that they called it the space race for a reason.  A lot of people were working at a breakneck pace in order to meet the late president Kennedy's goal of landing a man on moon by the end of the decade.  There is no way that the heat shield guys would have waited 2 years just to get the formal report so that they continue their work.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 13, 2016, 06:07:45 PM
Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?
Yes, I read that the experiment occurred in October of 1965. 

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
I mean that the people who conducted the experiment had access to the raw data almost immediately and were able to use that data to improve the heat shield shortly afterwards.

Don't forget that they called it the space race for a reason.  A lot of people were working at a breakneck pace in order to meet the late president Kennedy's goal of landing a man on moon by the end of the decade.  There is no way that the heat shield guys would have waited 2 years just to get the formal report so that they continue their work.

Well, the document itself does not seem to support your hypothesis. It does not explain the reason(s) for the delay, as if it was perfectly normal for them. Remember, they spent about 3 months just to attach the title page with that nice NASA logo. Comparing to that, a sloth looks much like a cheetah.
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 13, 2016, 07:32:54 PM
Dear markjo, my friend,

I was about to ask you again if you're all right, but have just remembered that jroa so clearly explained that here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66925.msg1788782#msg1788782 .

Can't you stop this stupid condescending attitude?

You are just so concerned with everybody's welfare.
I've never seen a more smug[1] hypocritical poster here!

Do you really think that 51 or so years ago NASA was publishing stuff primarily for your benefit.
Not likely! They would have had access to their own data long before it was released to the public.
Also, did every detail of tests get published? I have no idea, and neither do you.

Of course, your attitude to everything concerned with you nemesis NASA is,
"Guilty until proven innocent", by prosecutor, defense attorney, witnesses, judge and jury, the one and only completely unbiased NASAphobic_Humble_Scientist.
  ;D Yes, real fair trial NASA gets around here!  ;D

Of course, had I but known Humble_Scientist was going to audit all this data 51 years later, I could have warned them, but since I had never met anyone like the Humble_Scientist, I could hardly foresee it, pity!

PS: The Globe was decided on by reasonable people some two millenia before NASA, and even the rotating earth hundreds of years before NASA (yes, that's a bit harder to prove!) so blaming NASA is really a case of
"closing the cage after the bird's flown away!"
NASA just went with the widely accepted ideas and convincingly proved them correct. I do not accept that NASA ever had any intention of "proving the earth a Globe", everyone knew that!


[1] Mind you your partner in crime Papa Legba might beat on this, and your language is a bit more moderate.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 13, 2016, 07:53:34 PM
Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?
Yes, I read that the experiment occurred in October of 1965. 

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
I mean that the people who conducted the experiment had access to the raw data almost immediately and were able to use that data to improve the heat shield shortly afterwards.

Don't forget that they called it the space race for a reason.  A lot of people were working at a breakneck pace in order to meet the late president Kennedy's goal of landing a man on moon by the end of the decade.  There is no way that the heat shield guys would have waited 2 years just to get the formal report so that they continue their work.

Well, the document itself does not seem to support your hypothesis. It does not explain the reason(s) for the delay, as if it was perfectly normal for them. Remember, they spent about 3 months just to attach the title page with that nice NASA logo. Comparing to that, a sloth looks much like a cheetah.
 ;D
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never had a scientific paper published or are even familiar with the process of, let alone the reason for, having one published.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 14, 2016, 02:37:13 PM
Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?
Yes, I read that the experiment occurred in October of 1965. 

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
I mean that the people who conducted the experiment had access to the raw data almost immediately and were able to use that data to improve the heat shield shortly afterwards.

Don't forget that they called it the space race for a reason.  A lot of people were working at a breakneck pace in order to meet the late president Kennedy's goal of landing a man on moon by the end of the decade.  There is no way that the heat shield guys would have waited 2 years just to get the formal report so that they continue their work.

Well, the document itself does not seem to support your hypothesis. It does not explain the reason(s) for the delay, as if it was perfectly normal for them. Remember, they spent about 3 months just to attach the title page with that nice NASA logo. Comparing to that, a sloth looks much like a cheetah.
 ;D
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never had a scientific paper published or are even familiar with the process of, let alone the reason for, having one published.

Holey shpazeship! Yet another guess of you, dear markjo, and you're wrong again...
 :P

What's wrong with you, man?
 ::)

Are you sure you're posting in the right topic?
 ;D

On the right forum?
 ;D ;D

At the right computer?
 ;D ;D ;D

Have you finally figured out how to turn it on?
  8)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 14, 2016, 02:47:46 PM
Markjo's currently going through the grieving process due to the loss of his precious shpayze-rokkitz...

The 1st stage is, of course, Denial.

I would suggest you give him a break, but as it is my personal experience that you should never, under any circumstance, miss a chance to kick a psychopath when he's down, then please do carry on applying the boot.

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 14, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
Dear markjo, my friend,

I was about to ask you again if you're all right, but have just remembered that jroa so clearly explained that here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66925.msg1788782#msg1788782 .

Can't you stop this stupid condescending attitude?

You are just so concerned with everybody's welfare.
I've never seen a more smug[1] hypocritical poster here!

Do you really think that 51 or so years ago NASA was publishing stuff primarily for your benefit.
Not likely! They would have had access to their own data long before it was released to the public.
Also, did every detail of tests get published? I have no idea, and neither do you.

Of course, your attitude to everything concerned with you nemesis NASA is,
"Guilty until proven innocent", by prosecutor, defense attorney, witnesses, judge and jury, the one and only completely unbiased NASAphobic_Humble_Scientist.
  ;D Yes, real fair trial NASA gets around here!  ;D

Of course, had I but known Humble_Scientist was going to audit all this data 51 years later, I could have warned them, but since I had never met anyone like the Humble_Scientist, I could hardly foresee it, pity!

PS: The Globe was decided on by reasonable people some two millenia before NASA, and even the rotating earth hundreds of years before NASA (yes, that's a bit harder to prove!) so blaming NASA is really a case of
"closing the cage after the bird's flown away!"
NASA just went with the widely accepted ideas and convincingly proved them correct. I do not accept that NASA ever had any intention of "proving the earth a Globe", everyone knew that!


[1] Mind you your partner in crime Papa Legba might beat on this, and your language is a bit more moderate.

Rabinoz, my old buddy, I've never expected reading that NASA document can make you so over-excited. I remember that you almost died of excitement last fall while chatting with me. Since then, you might have noticed I do practice such a caring, cherishing and tender attitude towards you. Seriously. Do you want a proof? Right now? Just look at your left palm, and you will see that the lines on it form the letter "M". Do they?
 :P

So, let me carefully take your hand, as if you were a little child, - actually, you mentally are, - and read that NASA document together. By the way, you have such a mess in your head, and perhaps quite a few worms, too, that might be the reason for it... For example, reading NASA documents is not a crime, as you erroneously considered. It is a perfectly legal and highly entertaining activity. Also, I'm not a NASAphobic. I can assure you, that "NASA Technical Note NASA TN D-4713" is indeed an interesting and well-prepared document. Let's start, this is the link most kindly provided by our dearest friend markjo:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

First of all, what is the "technical note"? NASA so kindly explain that, on the last page of the document:

"TECHNICAL REPORTS: Scientific and technical information considered important, complete, and a lasting contribution to existing knowledge.

TECHNICAL NOTES:  Information less broad in scope but nevertheless of importance as a contribution to existing knowledge."

As you can see, a technical note is indeed a very important document, next to only a technical report. It contributes to existing knowledge! Isn't it amazing?
 8)

Thus, a technical note dated, for example, "August 1968" contributed to existing knowledge that NASA had before. This is the bleeding edge of what NASA knows, as of August 1968. Agreed? Now, dear rabinoz, could you please have a look at the first page of the document? At the bottom of the page, to the right? What date do you see? Isn't it "August 1968"? What a pleasant surprise!

So, "NASA Technical Note NASA TN D-4713" contains the last information on the topic that NASA had in August 1968. Is it clear? I do hope so.

Is it possible that NASA published this valuable note and, at the same time, was hiding some results? Of course, not. Please have a look at the last page, again, and read:

"The aeronautical and space activities of the United States shall be conducted so as to contribute . . . to the expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in the atmosphere and space. The Administration shall provide for the widest practicable and appropriate dissemination of information concerning its activities and the results thereof."
- National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958

Therefore, contrary to what your erroneous beliefs, NASA does provide the widest etc. information about its activities and the results. They do not hide anything. 'Cause they want to expand human knowledge, ya know. Are you a human? Then this is your knowledge, - expand it. Yes, yes, yes, you can read it, it is not a crime.

So, read it, pal. Read the "NASA Technical Note NASA TN D-4713", please.

Is it only for my own benefit? - yet another false persuasion of yours. No, of course. It is for the benefit of all of us. 'Cause they want us to know.
 ;)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 14, 2016, 03:37:44 PM
Look, man. First you provided the link to the publication and now you're asking me if I am saying:

"that the people who performed the experiment and analyzed the data had to wait over 2 years to get the formal report of their own experiment?"

Can't you read the publication yourself?
Yes, I read that the experiment occurred in October of 1965. 

"I think that it's far more likely that they knew the preliminary results within a few days or weeks and used those results in their ongoing work."

Holey shpazeship! What do you mean by that? The NASA technical note was fake or they were hiding their knowledge?
 ;D
I mean that the people who conducted the experiment had access to the raw data almost immediately and were able to use that data to improve the heat shield shortly afterwards.

Don't forget that they called it the space race for a reason.  A lot of people were working at a breakneck pace in order to meet the late president Kennedy's goal of landing a man on moon by the end of the decade.  There is no way that the heat shield guys would have waited 2 years just to get the formal report so that they continue their work.

Well, the document itself does not seem to support your hypothesis. It does not explain the reason(s) for the delay, as if it was perfectly normal for them. Remember, they spent about 3 months just to attach the title page with that nice NASA logo. Comparing to that, a sloth looks much like a cheetah.
 ;D
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never had a scientific paper published or are even familiar with the process of, let alone the reason for, having one published.

Holey shpazeship! Yet another guess of you, dear markjo, and you're wrong again...

Then explain this passage at the bottom of the second page means:
Quote
For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information
Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 14, 2016, 03:46:03 PM

Holey shpazeship! Yet another guess of you, dear markjo, and you're wrong again...

Then explain this passage at the bottom of the second page means:
Quote
For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information
Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00

IMHO it means:

"For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00"

Why?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 14, 2016, 04:03:33 PM

Holey shpazeship! Yet another guess of you, dear markjo, and you're wrong again...

Then explain this passage at the bottom of the second page means:
Quote
For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information
Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00

IMHO it means:

"For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00"

Why?
Do you suppose that NASA is selling the report to their own scientists and engineers so that they can do their jobs?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 14, 2016, 04:18:30 PM

Holey shpazeship! Yet another guess of you, dear markjo, and you're wrong again...

Then explain this passage at the bottom of the second page means:
Quote
For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information
Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00

IMHO it means:

"For sale by the Clearinghouse for Federal Scientific and Technical Information Springfield, Virginia 22151 - CFSTI price $3.00"

Why?
Do you suppose that NASA is selling the report to their own scientists and engineers so that they can do their jobs?

My dear markjo, this is not the first time you are asking me to answer as if I knew what NASA's doing. How should I know? That's disturbing... Are you all right? - oops, sorry, our dear jroa has already shed some light on that matter...
 ;D
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 14, 2016, 07:13:19 PM
My dear markjo...
You really are a condescending prick, aren't you?

...this is not the first time you are asking me to answer as if I knew what NASA's doing. How should I know?
Obviously you know that NASA had to wait almost 3 years for a report to be published so that they could use their own test data, so it sounds like you know NASA's doings much better than I do.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 14, 2016, 10:18:14 PM
You really are a condescending prick, aren't you?

The second stage of Grief is Anger...
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 14, 2016, 10:23:30 PM

Markjo says it much more succinctly than I ever could in: NASA 'lies' « Reply #134 on: Today at 07:13:19 PM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66925.msg1790499#msg1790499).

It is just a pity the system you push simply cannot explain numerous observations we can make with our eyes, let alone all the results of astronomy, surveying and science in general.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 14, 2016, 10:25:23 PM
STFU Geoff.

Plus, NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & everybody with a brain knows it...

So that's you out, Scarecrow.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 14, 2016, 10:31:27 PM
STFU Geoff.

Plus, NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & everybody with a brain knows it...

So that's you out, Scarecrow.

No you're just a halfwit that doesn't understand the most simple of scientific concept.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 14, 2016, 10:33:05 PM
STFU Geoff.

Plus, NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & everybody with a brain knows it...

So that's you out, Scarecrow.

Battle me pussy xD.

On your way might wanna get flowers for hoppy, he's in the severe burns unit, 3rd floor.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 14, 2016, 10:42:40 PM
No idea what you're talking about.

That NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd is a well-known Fact.

Well, unless you're an idiot that is.

Toodle-pip, idiots!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 14, 2016, 10:45:48 PM
Everyone witness the fall of legba...
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 14, 2016, 10:56:21 PM
Everyone witness four sock-puppet shills appear out of nowhere to chat mad shit.

NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & it's easy to prove, as they describe both forces being exerted on the same object.

Which is obviously Incorrect.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 14, 2016, 11:41:06 PM
A 4 year old will tell you obviously santa clause is real...doesn't mean they are right.

The Legba vessel is taking on water. Hope you have enought life boats and didn't plan as a famous vessel "planned". Though knowing your mentality, you probably don't believe in buoyancy or surface tension. So yeah, doubt there are any life boats, just over sized doors to fit your undeserved over inflated ego.

God bless the ship wreck at hand...
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Antares__ on June 14, 2016, 11:50:54 PM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

Simple. You see images of Earth all you see is a bunch of different balls. LOL! All of the images have to be the same! Hello, it's the Earth! You shills think the Earth can automagically change color and stuff! Come on that has to be the craziest stuff ever...

(http://flache-erde.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/nasa-erdmodelle.jpg)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 15, 2016, 12:05:42 AM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

Simple. You see images of Earth all you see is a bunch of different balls. LOL! All of the images have to be the same! Hello, it's the Earth! You shills think the Earth can automagically change color and stuff! Come on that has to be the craziest stuff ever...

(http://flache-erde.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/nasa-erdmodelle.jpg)

Welcome to the site, please read moar so you can ask intelligent questions.

Thanks.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Antares__ on June 15, 2016, 12:13:14 AM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

Simple. You see images of Earth all you see is a bunch of different balls. LOL! All of the images have to be the same! Hello, it's the Earth! You shills think the Earth can automagically change color and stuff! Come on that has to be the craziest stuff ever...

(http://flache-erde.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/nasa-erdmodelle.jpg)

Welcome to the site, please read moar so you can ask intelligent questions.

Thanks.

Satanic shill I've been embracing the flat earth for months now I don't need that, thanks.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 15, 2016, 12:30:44 AM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

Simple. You see images of Earth all you see is a bunch of different balls. LOL! All of the images have to be the same! Hello, it's the Earth! You shills think the Earth can automagically change color and stuff! Come on that has to be the craziest stuff ever...

(http://flache-erde.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/nasa-erdmodelle.jpg)

Welcome to the site, please read moar so you can ask intelligent questions.

Thanks.

Satanic shill I've been embracing the flat earth for months now I don't need that, thanks.

Don't need to read and ask questions?

Figures.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 15, 2016, 01:11:26 AM
Plus, NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & everybody with a brain knows it...

Guess that lets you out, Papa Lima Tango.

It's interesting how those that know they've lost the plot have to fall back on foul language and misrepresentation (like you know Geoff's gone west, as it were).

Bye, bye loser. Give my regards to the rest of the "Terrible Triplets".
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 15, 2016, 01:22:48 AM

NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & it's easy to prove, as they describe both forces being exerted on the same object.

Provide one correct example.....
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: disputeone on June 15, 2016, 02:51:08 AM
Plus, NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd Law & everybody with a brain knows it...

Guess that lets you out, Papa Lima Tango.

It's interesting how those that know they've lost the plot have to fall back on foul language and misrepresentation (like you know Geoff's gone west, as it were).

Bye, bye loser. Give my regards to the rest of the "Terrible Triplets".

He's just upset we destroyed his arguments so thoroughly.

Papa I made a thread specifically for immature insults, please don't resort to them here.

Please join me in AR for childish insults, thanks.

Edit nya nya nya nya nya nyah, top of page Papa. I know how you dislike that.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Bom Tishop on June 15, 2016, 03:24:35 AM
Ha ha it's always a bonus to get the top of the page to piss him off.

I really think it might be just about over though, honestly. Papa can't even crap up a basic insult or retort today.

Then there was that beauty from septic tank
.
You get no equations from  me, ever. No equations are needed to explain anything. You want to live on them then go ahead.

Him also stating we live in a world where we can fly and swim through the air...I feel and am hoping I am correct, that the wave of absolute ignorance has begun to come to a heed.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Humble_Scientist on June 15, 2016, 06:36:42 AM
My dear markjo...
You really are a condescending prick, aren't you?

...this is not the first time you are asking me to answer as if I knew what NASA's doing. How should I know?
Obviously you know that NASA had to wait almost 3 years for a report to be published so that they could use their own test data, so it sounds like you know NASA's doings much better than I do.

My dearest markjo and rabinoz,

You've switched to my humble personality again, which apparently means you've run out of your ammo. Of course, I might have followed the gracious advice most kindly given by our dear Papa Legba and meekly remark that you both are but imbecilic dumbass morons, to begin with...
 8)

However, (i) it's so perfectly clear; (ii) you seem to understand that yourself and (iii) I have little doubt that Papa Legba will gladly, with his usual persuasive mildness, help you in realizing that, should you still have any doubts. Besides, his battle skills are far superiour to mine.
 :P

So, let's us go back to the topic and briefly summarize what all of us have found. Namely, you, dear markjo, provided the link that points to that NASA technical note:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

It is dated August 1968 and says that the material for the Apollo heat shield catastrophically failed and the hole in the model spaceship appeared after 95.5 seconds of flight, which had the maximum velocity of about 3 km/s (3,139 m/s or 10,299 ft/s) and maximum height (apogee) of about 23,178 m (76,045 ft).

This is what NASA had, as of August 1968.

If I am not mistaken, the first lunar mission was launched on July 16, 1969, at 9:32 am EDT.

Any ideas how they managed to come back and re-enter at 11 km/s?
 ::)
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 15, 2016, 07:55:36 AM
So, let's us go back to the topic and briefly summarize what all of us have found. Namely, you, dear markjo, provided the link that points to that NASA technical note:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680021275.pdf

It is dated August 1968 and says that the material for the Apollo heat shield catastrophically failed and the hole in the model spaceship appeared after 95.5 seconds of flight, which had the maximum velocity of about 3 km/s (3,139 m/s or 10,299 ft/s) and maximum height (apogee) of about 23,178 m (76,045 ft).
On what date was that experiment performed?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 15, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
On what date was that experiment performed?

The 3rd stage of Grieving is Bargaining...

Classic case.

Anyhoo; NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd law & you can easily prove it by counting the number of Objects a rocket (singular noun) is...

If the number of Objects you count a rocket as being is ONE, then NASA are lying about N3.

Cue retards!

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: inquisitive on June 15, 2016, 11:30:59 AM
On what date was that experiment performed?

The 3rd stage of Grieving is Bargaining...

Classic case.

Anyhoo; NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd law & you can easily prove it by counting the number of Objects a rocket (singular noun) is...

If the number of Objects you count a rocket as being is ONE, then NASA are lying about N3.

Cue retards!
How many component parts?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Arthur on June 15, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
Hi, my first post here so please excuse me if I have messed up in my quote formatting.
I have been lurking here for a while and have been sent off on a number of areas of research that I have found most interesting.

With regard to Technical Note D-4713 it appears that Humble_Scientist feels that this represents the latest knowledge on ablative material research by NASA  as at August 1968.


Thus, a technical note dated, for example, "August 1968" contributed to existing knowledge that NASA had before. This is the bleeding edge of what NASA knows, as of August 1968. Agreed? Now, dear rabinoz, could you please have a look at the first page of the document? At the bottom of the page, to the right? What date do you see? Isn't it "August 1968"? What a pleasant surprise!

So, "NASA Technical Note NASA TN D-4713" contains the last information on the topic that NASA had in August 1968. Is it clear? I do hope so.

Is it possible that NASA published this valuable note and, at the same time, was hiding some results? Of course, not. Please have a look at the last page, again, and read:



To my reading this document is limited in scope to one particular test of an ablative material, that was carried out in 1965. This document does not even discuss the two additional test pieces of ablative material that were tested during the same launch in 1965. These tests along with information on this test are documented in TN D-4791. This was published in September 1968 and refers to the additional test prices as being of Apollo Ablator Material, which are of a different composition to the nose piece documented in TN D-4713.
So it would appear that TN D-4713 does not represent the full extent of NASA's knowledge of ablative materials in the second half of 1968.

Just my thoughts,
Arthur.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 15, 2016, 12:33:35 PM
Cool story bro...

Here's some more sci-fi while we're at it.

Stagnation point is where the bow shock wave is, and also where the massive amount of heat that you talk about sits. Between the stagnation point and the ablative material are gasses much cooler than the heat at the stagnation point.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 19, 2016, 10:44:59 PM
Here's a good example of the shills ignoring a thread when they're losing & starting another to try again, specifically the 'reaction engine formula' nonsense one...

Anyhoo; NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd law & you can easily prove it by counting the number of Objects a rocket (singular noun) is...

If the number of Objects you count a rocket as being is ONE, then NASA are lying about N3 because N3 requires TWO entirely separate Objects.

Cue retards!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Pangea on June 20, 2016, 12:21:27 AM
Pretty new here, but it's obvious Papa Legba believes the Earth is a sphere.
He loves the blue marble.
Just has no friends in real life, and chooses to troll here everyday for attention.

We've all known a Papa L... It's sad, but it's our duty as humans to care for him.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: inquisitive on June 20, 2016, 12:55:19 AM
Here's a good example of the shills ignoring a thread when they're losing & starting another to try again, specifically the 'reaction engine formula' nonsense one...

Anyhoo; NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd law & you can easily prove it by counting the number of Objects a rocket (singular noun) is...

If the number of Objects you count a rocket as being is ONE, then NASA are lying about N3 because N3 requires TWO entirely separate Objects.

Cue retards!
How many objects is a car?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 20, 2016, 01:28:10 AM
Here's a good example of the shills ignoring a thread when they're losing & starting another to try again, specifically the 'reaction engine formula' nonsense one...

Anyhoo; NASA Lies about Newton's 3rd law & you can easily prove it by counting the number of Objects a rocket (singular noun) is...

If the number of Objects you count a rocket as being is ONE, then NASA are lying about N3 because N3 requires TWO entirely separate Objects.

Cue retards!

Papa Legba still can't count! Look it goes like this 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, oops I've run out of fingers!

A rocket, including payload, is made up of numerous components including, but not restricted to: What's that? 11 types of component, with quite a number of many of them.
Undoubtedly plus an almost innumerable number of other components.

But the rocket does not have any thrust till we add (yes a separate pair of components). Fuel for each stage and oxidiser for each stage, both of which are often added as late as possible! (just like loading a gun). You shouldn't carry a loaded gun, nor transport a fuelled rocket.

Papa Legba is now going to tell us that a gun does not recoil! Count gun = one component!
And and he is right a gun cannot recoil without a cartridge.
And a rocket cannot give any thrust (recoil) without fuel and oxidiser.

Have another nice day Papa!
Yours sincerely RABinOZ

PS You will notice that I'm trying to be kind to him by explaining it all so carefully, but since only been reading kindergarten Newton's Laws and Space 4 Kiddies so it's a bit hard! Any kindergarten teachers that could assist!
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 20, 2016, 09:40:53 AM
STFU Geoff.

In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.

The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.

Simple stuff, which everybody acknowledges except for idiots, shills & lying NASA.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 22, 2016, 01:14:21 PM
Did a forum-slide on this didn't you?

That's okay; 'John Davis' doesn't mind...

'John Davis' sees NOTHING!

In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.

The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.

Simple stuff, which everybody acknowledges except for idiots, shills & lying NASA.

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 22, 2016, 01:18:46 PM
In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.

The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.
You probably think that light needs a medium to propagate through too.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 22, 2016, 01:23:36 PM
Try asking a real scientist like Lord kelvin about that, 'John', you desperate old fuck.

Cos idgaf.

In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.

The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.

Simple stuff, which everybody acknowledges except for idiots, shills & lying NASA.

Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 22, 2016, 01:38:37 PM
Try asking a real scientist like Lord kelvin about that, 'John', you desperate old fuck.

Cos idgaf.
You probably won't get one either with that kind of attitude.

In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.

The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.

Simple stuff, which everybody acknowledges except for idiots, shills & lying NASA.

You're thinking of propeller driven airplanes. 

Rockets work differently.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 22, 2016, 01:45:06 PM
Sorry 'John' but you seem to think persisting in your sock-shill bullshit will change the laws of physics...

However, as you've disabled the quote function on the forum that YOU run again, I can only leave you with a LMFAO & a GTFO rather than a reiteration of the basic physics you have refused to comprehend, despite all evidence, for over a year now.

You mental old shitbag on your mental old shitforum.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Empirical on June 22, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
Papa again does not know that gas has mass, so has momentum, and momentum is conserved.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 22, 2016, 02:23:21 PM
Hi Mainframes!

If an object with mass pushes against nothing, then of course its momentum will be conserved.

In the case of a gas, this has been experimentally proven; you know, Free Expansion of gasses in a vacuum & all that?

So, as ever, you have no point whatsoever except to promote your lying shill garbage...

Which lovely 'John Davis' allows you to do, ad infinitum...

Because 'John Davis' is markjo.

Simple stuff & lol.

Now fuck off.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Mainframes on June 22, 2016, 02:27:59 PM
Hi Mainframes!

If an object with mass pushes against nothing, then of course its momentum will be conserved.

In the case of a gas, this has been experimentally proven; you know, Free Expansion of gasses in a vacuum & all that?

So, as ever, you have no point whatsoever except to promote your lying shill garbage...

Which lovely 'John Davis' allows you to do, ad infinitum...

Because 'John Davis' is markjo.

Simple stuff & lol.

Now fuck off.

Hi Papa!

btw I haven't posted so you're just making yourself look like a tool.

Perhaps you have seen the examples of Newton's 3rd where a single object splits in two and still conserved momentum with each object moving in opposite direction to the other. Sort of like a rocket and its exhaust......
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 22, 2016, 06:35:32 PM
Sorry 'John' but you seem to think persisting in your sock-shill bullshit will change the laws of physics...
The laws of physics are just fine as they are.

It's your understanding of those laws of physics that needs work.

Your inability to understand that one object can be carried inside of (and subsequently ejected from) another object seems to defy all reason as well.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: rabinoz on June 22, 2016, 08:38:35 PM
Try asking a real scientist like Lord kelvin about that, 'John', you desperate old fuck.
Cos idgaf.
In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object.
The medium through which it moves, i.e. the atmosphere, is Object Two, with which it creates a force-pairing in order to produce motion.
Simple stuff, which everybody acknowledges except for idiots, shills & lying NASA.


Who told you that "In terms of how it functions according to Newton's 3rd law a rocket is One Object."?
Would it have been that authority you have quoted a hundred times by now ?
Quote from: Physics Classroom
Examples of Interaction Force Pairs
Consider the motion of a car on the way to school. A car is equipped with wheels that spin. As the wheels spin, they grip the road and push the road backwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the road must also be pushing the wheels forward. The size of the force on the road equals the size of the force on the wheels (or car); the direction of the force on the road (backwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the wheels (forwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for cars to move along a roadway surface.


2. For years, space travel was believed to be impossible because there was nothing that rockets could push off of in space in order to provide the propulsion necessary to accelerate. This inability of a rocket to provide propulsion is because ...
a. ... space is void of air so the rockets have nothing to push off of.
b. ... gravity is absent in space.
c. ... space is void of air and so there is no air resistance in space.
d. ... nonsense! Rockets do accelerate in space and have been able to do so for a long time.
See Answer
Then the answer:
Quote
Check your understanding answer
Answer: D
It is a common misconception that rockets are unable to accelerate in space. The fact is that rockets do accelerate. There is indeed nothing for rockets to push off of in space - at least nothing which is external to the rocket. But that's no problem for rockets. Rockets are able to accelerate due to the fact that they burn fuel and push the exhaust gases in a direction opposite the direction which they wish to accelerate.

from Physics Classroom - Home, Newton's Laws - Lesson 4 - Newton's Third Law of Motion (http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-4/Newton-s-Third-Law) Nope, it's not in there!

So we have 2 objects! The rocket AND the exhaust gases! 1 + 1 = 2!

So poor Papa still can't fathom how  :P Naughty Nasty NASA  :P (with a lot of help from those  ;D Wascally Wussians  ;D) put the ISS into orbit.
Poor Papa, It must be so frustrating!

All the best now, have a nice day (or night in you case).
Yours sincerely RABinOZ
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 23, 2016, 12:13:51 PM
STFU Geoff'n'John.

Perhaps you have seen the examples of Newton's 3rd where a single object splits in two and still conserved momentum with each object moving in opposite direction to the other.

Is it 'man on fucking skateboard with fucking medicine ball' time again you dickhead?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 23, 2016, 07:19:39 PM
STFU Geoff'n'John.

Perhaps you have seen the examples of Newton's 3rd where a single object splits in two and still conserved momentum with each object moving in opposite direction to the other.

Is it 'man on fucking skateboard with fucking medicine ball' time again you dickhead?
Are you suggesting that the man on a skateboard with medicine balls experiment isn't a valid example of Newton's third law?
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: paulforaname on June 28, 2016, 01:33:43 AM
Quite often on these boards it's asserted or implicated that NASA tells lies.

Does anyone have any specific, concrete examples of NASA lying? By this I mean examples either of NASA admitting to falsehood, or of there being generally and authoritatively accepted evidence that contradicts what NASA has said.

I'm not asking for conspiracy theory kind of stuff, or people's opinions. Just proper evidence. Ideally there would be citations, both for what NASA has claimed and also for the contradiction.

You must be joking.

Classic..laughed my ass off.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 28, 2016, 03:12:53 AM
STFU Geoff'n'John.

Perhaps you have seen the examples of Newton's 3rd where a single object splits in two and still conserved momentum with each object moving in opposite direction to the other.

Is it 'man on fucking skateboard with fucking medicine ball' time again you dickhead?
Are you suggesting that the man on a skateboard with medicine balls experiment isn't a valid example of Newton's third law?

You know exactly what I am suggesting...

John.

Plus lol at your use of the word 'experiment' about a shitty false analogy for rocket thrust that has been repeatedly busted as bullshit...

John.

Anyhoo; I'm sure you have small animals to torture or some other psycho-hobby that needs attending to...

John.

Don't let me keep you...

John.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: markjo on June 28, 2016, 05:21:59 AM
STFU Geoff'n'John.

Perhaps you have seen the examples of Newton's 3rd where a single object splits in two and still conserved momentum with each object moving in opposite direction to the other.

Is it 'man on fucking skateboard with fucking medicine ball' time again you dickhead?
Are you suggesting that the man on a skateboard with medicine balls experiment isn't a valid example of Newton's third law?

You know exactly what I am suggesting...
Then why don't you humor me and say the words?

I'm sure that you can find some shitspam copypasta somewhere.
Title: Re: NASA 'lies'
Post by: Papa Legba on June 28, 2016, 08:34:14 AM
Why don't you unlock all four of the threads I said them in, John?

You're the admin, after all...