The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: mikeman7918 on June 28, 2015, 04:51:00 PM

Title: We are in the middle
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 28, 2015, 04:51:00 PM
One of the major reasons people doubt modern astronomy is because it makes us look small and insignificant.  That is true, but the study of quantom mechanics and the really small does the opposite.  In fact, the difference in size between you and the observable universe is less then the size difference between you and a plank length.  On a logarithmic scale the size in the middle is aproximately the size of a cell.  This means that according to science you a few powers of 10 above the middle, so in the grand scheme of things you are not a tiny insignificant speck.

Even though Earth is only one of many planets, that doesn't mean that it's not significant and unique.  Earth has life on it, which makes it unique and special.  The universe may not revolve around it, but it's still a very significant place.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: robintex on June 28, 2015, 05:04:53 PM
One of the major reasons people doubt modern astronomy is because it makes us look small and insignificant.  That is true, but the study of quantom mechanics and the really small does the opposite.  In fact, the difference in size between you and the observable universe is less then the size difference between you and a plank length.  On a logarithmic scale the size in the middle is aproximately the size of a cell.  This means that according to science you a few powers of 10 above the middle, so in the grand scheme of things you are not a tiny insignificant speck.

Even though Earth is only one of many planets, that doesn't mean that it's not significant and unique.  Earth has life on it, which makes it unique and special.  The universe may not revolve around it, but it's still a very significant place.

There are many sources on the Internet for  information on the universe.
The general accepted statement is that the universe is infinite and has no edge and no center.

From the observation of a person on the earth, the earth would be at the center of the universe. But this would be true for any other person on any other planet from their point of view.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: FlatOrange on June 28, 2015, 05:11:00 PM

The general accepted statement is that the universe is infinite and has no edge and no center.


Source??
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 28, 2015, 05:17:17 PM
I did specify the observable universe, not the whole universe.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: robintex on June 28, 2015, 05:22:21 PM

The general accepted statement is that the universe is infinite and has no edge and no center.


Source??

Elementary, my Dear Watson. Just google on "Does the universe have an edge or a center ?" and you will  find plenty of sources.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: robintex on June 28, 2015, 05:27:29 PM
I did specify the observable universe, not the whole universe.

Right. True.

From the observable universe  (from an observer on the earth), the earth is in the middle of the universe.

The statement was for the whole universe.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: mikeman7918 on June 28, 2015, 05:33:24 PM
I did specify the observable universe, not the whole universe.

Right. True.

From the observable universe  (from an observer on the earth), the earth is in the middle of the universe.

The statement was for the whole universe.

My point is that we are in the middle of a logarithmic scale of size.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Misero on June 28, 2015, 05:44:43 PM
Think about this. Of all of the millions of planets we've found, how many people have we found? Things like us? None. Zero. We are special. We are using our extremely complex brains to find out the workings of the universe we reside in. We made this amazing source of information you're looking at right now, the Internet. Billions of computers all connected together to form a vast web of information. I am able to talk to, for example, a person in South Korea, instantaneously. Even the language barrier gets blurred as things like Google Glass are soon able to translate from English to Korean on the fly. In total, us humans are amazing.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Dog on June 28, 2015, 06:26:51 PM
Think about this. Of all of the millions of planets we've found, how many people have we found? Things like us? None. Zero. We are special. We are using our extremely complex brains to find out the workings of the universe we reside in. We made this amazing source of information you're looking at right now, the Internet. Billions of computers all connected together to form a vast web of information. I am able to talk to, for example, a person in South Korea, instantaneously. Even the language barrier gets blurred as things like Google Glass are soon able to translate from English to Korean on the fly. In total, us humans are amazing.

How many planets have we inspected? Like 5. How many planets in the "habitable zone" have we detected? Billions. How many years have gone by before humans existed? Billions.

I think it's a little naive to say "We are special." Check out the Fermi Paradox http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html (http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html)

I think it's a little early to call
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Poko on July 01, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Think about this. Of all of the millions of planets we've found, how many people have we found? Things like us? None. Zero. We are special. We are using our extremely complex brains to find out the workings of the universe we reside in. We made this amazing source of information you're looking at right now, the Internet. Billions of computers all connected together to form a vast web of information. I am able to talk to, for example, a person in South Korea, instantaneously. Even the language barrier gets blurred as things like Google Glass are soon able to translate from English to Korean on the fly. In total, us humans are amazing.

How many planets have we inspected? Like 5. How many planets in the "habitable zone" have we detected? Billions. How many years have gone by before humans existed? Billions.

I think it's a little naive to say "We are special." Check out the Fermi Paradox http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html (http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html)

I think it's a little early to call

We haven't discovered billions of planets in the habitable zone. So far, only 1,854 exoplanets have been discovered and about 30 of them have been in the habitable zone. However "habitable zone" is a little vague because it assumes that liquid water is necessary for life.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Pongo on July 01, 2015, 07:44:26 PM
I did specify the observable universe, not the whole universe.

The center of the observable universe is earth.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Doglover on July 02, 2015, 05:48:36 AM
We are sentient beings made of the stuff of the Universe. In essence, we are the Universe trying to explain itself.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 02, 2015, 05:52:54 AM
, but it's still a very significant place.
Significant to whom?
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: robintex on July 02, 2015, 10:32:50 AM
Think about this. Of all of the millions of planets we've found, how many people have we found? Things like us? None. Zero. We are special. We are using our extremely complex brains to find out the workings of the universe we reside in. We made this amazing source of information you're looking at right now, the Internet. Billions of computers all connected together to form a vast web of information. I am able to talk to, for example, a person in South Korea, instantaneously. Even the language barrier gets blurred as things like Google Glass are soon able to translate from English to Korean on the fly. In total, us humans are amazing.

How many planets have we inspected? Like 5. How many planets in the "habitable zone" have we detected? Billions. How many years have gone by before humans existed? Billions.

I think it's a little naive to say "We are special." Check out the Fermi Paradox http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html (http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html)

I think it's a little early to call

We haven't discovered billions of planets in the habitable zone. So far, only 1,854 exoplanets have been discovered and about 30 of them have been in the habitable zone. However "habitable zone" is a little vague because it assumes that liquid water is necessary for life.


Just consider the Voyager space craft.  IF it discovered a solar system and IF the solar system had a planet that supported life and IF the life was similar to the earths and IF the  Voyager landed on that planet and IF an inhabitant decoded the meanings on the disc that the Voyager carries......How many light years would it take IF a message was  sent back to earth ? The Voyager has now passed beyond our solar system.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/pale_blue_25.html (http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/news/pale_blue_25.html)
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Dog on July 02, 2015, 05:55:51 PM
Think about this. Of all of the millions of planets we've found, how many people have we found? Things like us? None. Zero. We are special. We are using our extremely complex brains to find out the workings of the universe we reside in. We made this amazing source of information you're looking at right now, the Internet. Billions of computers all connected together to form a vast web of information. I am able to talk to, for example, a person in South Korea, instantaneously. Even the language barrier gets blurred as things like Google Glass are soon able to translate from English to Korean on the fly. In total, us humans are amazing.

How many planets have we inspected? Like 5. How many planets in the "habitable zone" have we detected? Billions. How many years have gone by before humans existed? Billions.

I think it's a little naive to say "We are special." Check out the Fermi Paradox http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html (http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html)

I think it's a little early to call

We haven't discovered billions of planets in the habitable zone. So far, only 1,854 exoplanets have been discovered and about 30 of them have been in the habitable zone. However "habitable zone" is a little vague because it assumes that liquid water is necessary for life.

Well hypothesized I mean. It's extrapolated data that probably isn't far off.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Misero on July 04, 2015, 08:23:04 AM
Is it not important that the tiny little race of humans are beginning to understand things much bigger than themselves?
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on July 05, 2015, 05:07:19 AM
What is it that makes something valuable, or precious?
It's the rarity, or uniqueness. The tiniest speck of diamond is worth more than a house full of rock. It doesn't matter how big we humans are, we're rare, and we're unique: at the very least, no other race has figured out radio signals that we know of.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Alpha2Omega on July 05, 2015, 08:47:25 AM
What is it that makes something valuable, or precious?
It's the rarity, or uniqueness. The tiniest speck of diamond is worth more than a house full of rock.
A bit of hyperbole anyone? You can find quarter-carat cut diamonds in the $300 - $400 range (http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=0.24&CaratTo=0.50&Color=K,J,I,H,G,F,E,D&Clarity=I1,SI2,SI1,VS2,VS1,VVS2,VVS1,IF&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=1380&ViewsOptions=Images). whereas a half cubic foot or river rock costs about $8 at the local big-box store (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Classic-Stone-0-5-cu-ft-Medium-River-Rock-R3RRM/205180208). If we assume a house is 1600 square feet and has 8-ft ceilings, that's 12,800 cubic feet  in the living space (not counting any attic space, etc.), or $204,800 worth of rock at retail. If you buy it by the truckload, I saw a price of $8.55/ton at the quarry (reply #5 here (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?411446-Rough-Cost-of-Driveway-Rock)) from a couple of years ago. Crushed limestone weighs about 1.2 tons per cubic yard (http://kellermaterial.com/calculators/bulk_calculator.html), so a house full is 12,800 ft3 / (27 ft3/yd3) = 474 yd3, weighing 569 tons. That's almost $5000 worth of rock. At the quarry. It's more valuable after it's delivered, which ain't going to be close to free, either.

A 1/4 carat diamond is small, but much larger than "the tiniest speck", and that price was for a cut, gem-quality stone and doesn't even consider industrial diamonds, which are much cheaper. A 1600-ft2 house is probably smaller than average for the US.

So, no, The tiniest speck of diamond is not worth more than a house full of rock. It's really not even close. Doing a sanity check before making bold but totally baseless pronouncements could save you from looking so ignorant in the future. A sanity check must go against your nature, but you should really consider it.

Quote
It doesn't matter how big we humans are, we're rare, and we're unique: at the very least, no other race has figured out radio signals that we know of.
"That we know of." The universe is a big place.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Yendor on July 05, 2015, 09:39:08 AM
What is it that makes something valuable, or precious?
It's the rarity, or uniqueness. The tiniest speck of diamond is worth more than a house full of rock.
A bit of hyperbole anyone? You can find quarter-carat cut diamonds in the $300 - $400 range (http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=0.24&CaratTo=0.50&Color=K,J,I,H,G,F,E,D&Clarity=I1,SI2,SI1,VS2,VS1,VVS2,VVS1,IF&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=1380&ViewsOptions=Images). whereas a half cubic foot or river rock costs about $8 at the local big-box store (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Classic-Stone-0-5-cu-ft-Medium-River-Rock-R3RRM/205180208). If we assume a house is 1600 square feet and has 8-ft ceilings, that's 12,800 cubic feet  in the living space (not counting any attic space, etc.), or $204,800 worth of rock at retail. If you buy it by the truckload, I saw a price of $8.55/ton at the quarry (reply #5 here (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?411446-Rough-Cost-of-Driveway-Rock)) from a couple of years ago. Crushed limestone weighs about 1.2 tons per cubic yard (http://kellermaterial.com/calculators/bulk_calculator.html), so a house full is 12,800 ft3 / (27 ft3/yd3) = 474 yd3, weighing 569 tons. That's almost $5000 worth of rock. At the quarry. It's more valuable after it's delivered, which ain't going to be close to free, either.

A 1/4 carat diamond is small, but much larger than "the tiniest speck", and that price was for a cut, gem-quality stone and doesn't even consider industrial diamonds, which are much cheaper. A 1600-ft2 house is probably smaller than average for the US.

So, no, The tiniest speck of diamond is not worth more than a house full of rock. It's really not even close. Doing a sanity check before making bold but totally baseless pronouncements could save you from looking so ignorant in the future. A sanity check must go against your nature, but you should really consider it.

Quote
It doesn't matter how big we humans are, we're rare, and we're unique: at the very least, no other race has figured out radio signals that we know of.
"That we know of." The universe is a big place.

And you knew all this on the top of your head?
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Alpha2Omega on July 05, 2015, 12:05:37 PM
What is it that makes something valuable, or precious?
It's the rarity, or uniqueness. The tiniest speck of diamond is worth more than a house full of rock.
A bit of hyperbole anyone? You can find quarter-carat cut diamonds in the $300 - $400 range (http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=0.24&CaratTo=0.50&Color=K,J,I,H,G,F,E,D&Clarity=I1,SI2,SI1,VS2,VS1,VVS2,VVS1,IF&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=1380&ViewsOptions=Images). whereas a half cubic foot or river rock costs about $8 at the local big-box store (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Classic-Stone-0-5-cu-ft-Medium-River-Rock-R3RRM/205180208). If we assume a house is 1600 square feet and has 8-ft ceilings, that's 12,800 cubic feet  in the living space (not counting any attic space, etc.), or $204,800 worth of rock at retail. If you buy it by the truckload, I saw a price of $8.55/ton at the quarry (reply #5 here (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?411446-Rough-Cost-of-Driveway-Rock)) from a couple of years ago. Crushed limestone weighs about 1.2 tons per cubic yard (http://kellermaterial.com/calculators/bulk_calculator.html), so a house full is 12,800 ft3 / (27 ft3/yd3) = 474 yd3, weighing 569 tons. That's almost $5000 worth of rock. At the quarry. It's more valuable after it's delivered, which ain't going to be close to free, either.

A 1/4 carat diamond is small, but much larger than "the tiniest speck", and that price was for a cut, gem-quality stone and doesn't even consider industrial diamonds, which are much cheaper. A 1600-ft2 house is probably smaller than average for the US.

So, no, The tiniest speck of diamond is not worth more than a house full of rock. It's really not even close. Doing a sanity check before making bold but totally baseless pronouncements could save you from looking so ignorant in the future. A sanity check must go against your nature, but you should really consider it.

Quote
It doesn't matter how big we humans are, we're rare, and we're unique: at the very least, no other race has figured out radio signals that we know of.
"That we know of." The universe is a big place.

And you knew all this on the top of your head?
No, silly! I surmised it was true and then looked up enough facts[nb]The retail cost of a small diamond, the cost (wholesale and retail) of enough rock to fill a small house.[/nb] to check if it actually was. The floor area and ceiling height for a smallish house, and how to calculate the volume did come off the top of my head (notice there is no citation for that). This is what I was encouraging JR to do; it will save us time and make him look less like a guy that just says whatever he thinks sounds good regardless of how ridiculous it actually is.

The parts of my reply in blue with underlines are hyperlinks to the source for the numbers I used; I presumed most readers already knew that. If you move your mouse pointer over them it should change shape (mine changes from an arrow to a pointing finger, but yours may differ); if you then click, your browser should open a web page that contains the information. Pretty cool, huh?
 
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on July 05, 2015, 02:38:47 PM
What is it that makes something valuable, or precious?
It's the rarity, or uniqueness. The tiniest speck of diamond is worth more than a house full of rock.
A bit of hyperbole anyone? You can find quarter-carat cut diamonds in the $300 - $400 range (http://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/swowxngtcrb/sqrs/p1/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=0.24&CaratTo=0.50&Color=K,J,I,H,G,F,E,D&Clarity=I1,SI2,SI1,VS2,VS1,VVS2,VVS1,IF&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=1380&ViewsOptions=Images). whereas a half cubic foot or river rock costs about $8 at the local big-box store (http://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/scyaqqsbey/spqr/p1/p/Classic-Stone-0-5-cu-ft-Medium-River-Rock-R3RRM/205180208). If we assume a house is 1600 square feet and has 8-ft ceilings, that's 12,800 cubic feet  in the living space (not counting any attic space, etc.), or $204,800 worth of rock at retail. If you buy it by the truckload, I saw a price of $8.55/ton at the quarry (reply #5 here (http://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/snccautddfjaw/sstu/p1/forum/showthread.php?411446-Rough-Cost-of-Driveway-Rock)) from a couple of years ago. Crushed limestone weighs about 1.2 tons per cubic yard (http://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/suktdrhpciwefzg/p1/calculators/bulk_calculator.html), so a house full is 12,800 ft3 / (27 ft3/yd3) = 474 yd3, weighing 569 tons. That's almost $5000 worth of rock. At the quarry. It's more valuable after it's delivered, which ain't going to be close to free, either.

A 1/4 carat diamond is small, but much larger than "the tiniest speck", and that price was for a cut, gem-quality stone and doesn't even consider industrial diamonds, which are much cheaper. A 1600-ft2 house is probably smaller than average for the US.

So, no, The tiniest speck of diamond is not worth more than a house full of rock. It's really not even close. Doing a sanity check before making bold but totally baseless pronouncements could save you from looking so ignorant in the future. A sanity check must go against your nature, but you should really consider it.

Quote
It doesn't matter how big we humans are, we're rare, and we're unique: at the very least, no other race has figured out radio signals that we know of.
"That we know of." The universe is a big place.

Flowery language has never been intended as objective fact.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: hoyhoy5 on July 06, 2015, 08:09:34 AM
Hello guys.

Just wanna contribute to the thread by stating that another common belief is that the universe does not have a particular center of expansion, does not have a limit but is still finite. Background radiation might provide some insight on this matter. Some people even concluded that, if you were to travel into deep space following one particular direction, you would eventually get back to where you started. But as of now, speculation is our main tool to describe the universe.

I'm not really a physicist or an astronomer, just an enthusiast. Sorry if I get any information wrong.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: robintex on July 06, 2015, 08:14:21 AM
Hello guys.

Just wanna contribute to the thread by stating that another common belief is that the universe does not have a particular center of expansion, does not have a limit but is still finite. Background radiation might provide some insight on this matter. Some people even concluded that, if you were to travel into deep space following one particular direction, you would eventually get back to where you started. But as of now, speculation is our main tool to describe the universe.

I'm not really a physicist or an astronomer, just an enthusiast. Sorry if I get any information wrong.

Likewise
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Alpha2Omega on July 06, 2015, 09:28:44 AM
Flowery language has never been intended as objective fact.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on July 06, 2015, 10:16:42 AM
Flowery language has never been intended as objective fact.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]

I mean the spirit of what I say. That does not mean an atom of diamond is going to be worth more than a ton of any imaginable rock. Are you not familiar with non-literal statements? In a non-scientific thread I am not going to be pedantic about details. But sure, keep embarassing yourself.
Sure, you disagree with me on other topics, I get that, but this is pathetic.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: Alpha2Omega on July 06, 2015, 05:17:01 PM
Flowery language has never been intended as objective fact.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]


I mean the spirit of what I say.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]

Thanks for clarifying that.

"I was just kidding!" The rallying cry for those unwilling or unable to admit their pronouncement turned out to be an embarrassing blunder.

Quote
That does not mean an atom of diamond is going to be worth more than a ton of any imaginable rock.

Did you know that you can't have an "atom of diamond"? Do you know why? You'd have an atom of carbon. Atoms of carbon are really quite common, and they're not "teeny tiny diamonds".

Quote
Are you not familiar with non-literal statements? In a non-scientific thread I am not going to be pedantic about details.

This is a forum on The Flat Earth Society's website; pseudo-scientific and non-scientific threads are, like, about all of them. Given some of the ideas you espouse, dodging details is an excellent idea. Quite honestly, I presume (and earnestly hope) that you never mean whatever it is you say here. Since I really can't tell when you're "just kidding" and when you're pretending to be serious (I hope it's pretending), it's always nonsense, and I treat it all the same.

Quote
But sure, keep embarassing yourself.
Sure, you disagree with me on other topics, I get that, but this is pathetic.

I think I disagree with what you post about almost everything; I can't recall anything that wasn't complete balderdash. I assume you're just taking that side of the argument as devil's advocate (surely you don't really believe the stuff you advocate for here, do you?) You don't have to answer that (as though you've ever given a straightforward answer to anything)... it's all in fun and no need to tip your hand.
Title: Re: We are in the middle
Post by: charles bloomington on July 06, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
Flowery language has never been intended as objective fact.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]


I mean the spirit of what I say.

[translation] "I don't mean what I say." [/translation]

Thanks for clarifying that.

"I was just kidding!" The rallying cry for those unwilling or unable to admit their pronouncement turned out to be an embarrassing blunder.

Quote
That does not mean an atom of diamond is going to be worth more than a ton of any imaginable rock.

Did you know that you can't have an "atom of diamond"? Do you know why? You'd have an atom of carbon. Atoms of carbon are really quite common, and they're not "teeny tiny diamonds".

Quote
Are you not familiar with non-literal statements? In a non-scientific thread I am not going to be pedantic about details.

This is a forum on The Flat Earth Society's website; pseudo-scientific and non-scientific threads are, like, about all of them. Given some of the ideas you espouse, dodging details is an excellent idea. Quite honestly, I presume (and earnestly hope) that you never mean whatever it is you say here. Since I really can't tell when you're "just kidding" and when you're pretending to be serious (I hope it's pretending), it's always nonsense, and I treat it all the same.

Quote
But sure, keep embarassing yourself.
Sure, you disagree with me on other topics, I get that, but this is pathetic.

I think I disagree with what you post about almost everything; I can't recall anything that wasn't complete balderdash. I assume you're just taking that side of the argument as devil's advocate (surely you don't really believe the stuff you advocate for here, do you?) You don't have to answer that (as though you've ever given a straightforward answer to anything)... it's all in fun and no need to tip your hand.
She right j rotten bathscum . All diamonds eventually decay in structure to carbon graphite.