The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: The Ellimist on September 19, 2014, 03:49:40 PM

Title: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 19, 2014, 03:49:40 PM
http://www.space.com/19086-private-space-travel-leaps-2013.html (http://www.space.com/19086-private-space-travel-leaps-2013.html)

My question is, what's going to happen when the average Joe can go to space and see the round Earth? What kind of conspiracy do you think that will be, involving thousands of normal citizens?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Alpha2Omega on September 19, 2014, 04:18:28 PM
Realistically, I think this is going to be a very small niche industry even after it starts and for years following. I'll be a good while before even hundreds of commercial passengers travel in privately-operated spacecraft, let alone thousands. It will happen, and may become routine, but I'm not going to make specific predictions about the timeline because this is a very expensive, complex, and still dangerous endeavor, most likely with setbacks along the way.

I hope I'm wrong, though!

Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: macrohard on September 19, 2014, 04:48:19 PM
If it ever happens it will be an elaborate simulator.  The paying customers will never notice the difference, and further spread the RE gospel.

It's a win win for globularism.  More revenue and enhanced credibility.

Ever been on StarTours at Disneyland?  Like that but a thousand times more elaborate and believable.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 20, 2014, 03:40:37 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?
How many people have been at real high altitude?

I have a strange feeling that these flights will take place at night time and the so called space plane will have a few vertical viewing port hole windows for the gullible fools to look up into space, making them believe they actually are.

A fool and their money are easily parted.

OR.
An actor and their pay day, are easily manipulated into telling a space story for the ever gullible public.
They still haven't solved the problem of high altitude flight and the effects on planes.

(http://)

It's about looking into your own mind and grabbing that part of it that has the sticker on it saying "common sense and logic" then pushing back the part that is stamped "gullible."
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 20, 2014, 06:01:10 AM
If it ever happens it will be an elaborate simulator.  The paying customers will never notice the difference, and further spread the RE gospel.

It's a win win for globularism.  More revenue and enhanced credibility.

Ever been on StarTours at Disneyland?  Like that but a thousand times more elaborate and believable.

I thought you were an RE'er?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on September 20, 2014, 07:25:54 AM
He's taking the piss.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: macrohard on September 20, 2014, 12:29:29 PM
If it ever happens it will be an elaborate simulator.  The paying customers will never notice the difference, and further spread the RE gospel.

It's a win win for globularism.  More revenue and enhanced credibility.

Ever been on StarTours at Disneyland?  Like that but a thousand times more elaborate and believable.

I thought you were an RE'er?

I don't necessarily believe everything I say.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: ausGeoff on September 22, 2014, 08:21:51 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 08:31:21 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: inquisitive on September 22, 2014, 08:42:19 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.
Do you agree?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 08:53:26 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.
Do you agree?
Did you really need to ask that question knowing how I think?  ::)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: ausGeoff on September 22, 2014, 09:16:42 AM
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.


Thank you sceptimatic.  I do..... and you obviously don't.

I rest my case m'lud.    ;D
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 09:23:47 AM
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.


Thank you sceptimatic.  I do..... and you obviously don't.

I rest my case m'lud.    ;D
Yep; you've done everything else on your planet, Geoffrey, so it's hardly surprising.  ;D
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: inquisitive on September 22, 2014, 10:38:35 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.
Do you agree?
Did you really need to ask that question knowing how I think?  ::)
You seem to have a problem explaining or understanding how some things work.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 10:42:28 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?

Too easy.  Anybody with an iPhone can tell.   GPS receivers can determine altitude by trilateration with four or more satellites, and to within 100 metres.
I'm sure you would know, Geoffrey.
Do you agree?
Did you really need to ask that question knowing how I think?  ::)
You seem to have a problem explaining or understanding how some things work.
Well don't you worry yourself about it, I'm not. ;)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 22, 2014, 05:58:03 PM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?
How many people have been at real high altitude?

I have a strange feeling that these flights will take place at night time and the so called space plane will have a few vertical viewing port hole windows for the gullible fools to look up into space, making them believe they actually are.

A fool and their money are easily parted.

OR.
An actor and their pay day, are easily manipulated into telling a space story for the ever gullible public.
They still haven't solved the problem of high altitude flight and the effects on planes.

(http://)

It's about looking into your own mind and grabbing that part of it that has the sticker on it saying "common sense and logic" then pushing back the part that is stamped "gullible."

I wrote a lengthy response to this, but I got logged out and it was lost. It was pretty good too.

I'll repost it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 23, 2014, 05:27:39 AM
Space tourism has been promised to happen any day now since the 1950s.  So far, it is just a pipe dream.  Maybe you can use this against the FET when/if it ever happens, but until then, it is just a 'what if' scenario. 

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7-ROWyZP4fpmcuG1UKGbvKpzkpN-Gs0IgA3yGCt1VsL9MU6Jr3A)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Alpha2Omega on September 23, 2014, 06:27:31 AM
Space tourism has been promised to happen any day now since the 1950s.  So far, it is just a pipe dream.  Maybe you can use this against the FET when/if it ever happens, but until then, it is just a 'what if' scenario. 

Well, maybe it's been a topic in science fiction since the '50s and even before. NASA had been actively discouraging tourism until well into the future, and it wasn't until the Russian space program needed money badly that it was even considered by them, and finally happened. These were the only entities that had the capability to make it happen at all until really recently. So, no, it hasn't been "promised to happen any day now since the 1950s" by anyone who could possibly make it happen.

It's not needed to debunk the notion of a flat earth, and probably wouldn't be effective anyway since the reality filters would simply be increased a notch should anyone who believed in a flat earth find himself aboard a spacecraft. We've seen it here already when the idea was even mentioned: "the portholes will be too small", "elaborate simulation", "only fly at night", etc.  So much for "open minds."
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 23, 2014, 08:01:40 AM
Space tourism has been promised to happen any day now since the 1950s.  So far, it is just a pipe dream.  Maybe you can use this against the FET when/if it ever happens, but until then, it is just a 'what if' scenario.
Yeah, it'll never happen.  Except for the 8 times that it already happened, that is.  ::)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism#List_of_flown_space_tourists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism#List_of_flown_space_tourists)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 23, 2014, 12:56:10 PM
Yeah, it'll never happen.  Except for the 8 times that it already happened, that is.  ::)

My question is, what's going to happen when the average Joe can go to space and see the round Earth?

Maybe you should actually read threads, markjo? 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Rama Set on September 23, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
I thought you responded quite nicely to Jroa's contention that :
Space tourism has been promised to happen any day now since the 1950s.  So far, it is just a pipe dream.   
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 23, 2014, 02:22:23 PM
Yeah, it'll never happen.  Except for the 8 times that it already happened, that is.  ::)

My question is, what's going to happen when the average Joe can go to space and see the round Earth?

Maybe you should actually read threads, markjo?

Yea, but he's referencing this quote
Quote
Space tourism has been promised to happen any day now since the 1950s.  So far, it is just a pipe dream.  Maybe you can use this against the FET when/if it ever happens, but until then, it is just a 'what if' scenario.

Which claims it hasn't happened, when it has, albeit at a small scale
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 23, 2014, 07:29:25 PM
Yeah, it'll never happen.  Except for the 8 times that it already happened, that is.  ::)

My question is, what's going to happen when the average Joe can go to space and see the round Earth?

Maybe you should actually read threads, markjo?
As with many very dangerous and very technically challenging endeavors, space travel leading to space tourism begins with massive government investment, followed by a few wealthy dilettantes before it finally becomes available to "the average Joe".  In fact, I would consider the offerings of VG and others to still be in the wealthy dilettante price range.  My guess is that average Joe priced space flights are still many years away.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: ausGeoff on September 23, 2014, 07:37:56 PM
In fact, I would consider the offerings of VG and others to still be in the wealthy dilettante price range.  My guess is that average Joe priced space flights are still many years away.


I'd agree.  And Virgin Galactic is currently quoting US$250,000 for a seat.  And they've—in all seriousness—posted a booking form on their site LOL.  Wishful thinking maybe on their part?

Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 23, 2014, 07:56:24 PM
In fact, I would consider the offerings of VG and others to still be in the wealthy dilettante price range.  My guess is that average Joe priced space flights are still many years away.


I'd agree.  And Virgin Galactic is currently quoting US$250,000 for a seat.  And they've—in all seriousness—posted a booking form on their site LOL.  Wishful thinking maybe on their part?
Bah!  $250k is chump change compared to the $150 million that these guys are asking for a trip to the moon and back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSE-Alpha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSE-Alpha)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: guv on September 24, 2014, 12:54:19 AM
These guys are talking about $95000 for a sub orbital flight. I could just about shout one of these bullshitting nutters a trip.

http://xcor.com/lynx/ (http://xcor.com/lynx/)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 06:04:37 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here. 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2014, 06:53:15 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.

Everyone else has gotten over you.  You should do the same.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 07:15:09 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:20:44 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron? 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 07:30:19 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron?
I don't think that you realize how many millionaires there are in the US.  Among those millionaires, those space tourists are just average Joes.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:40:11 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron?
I don't think that you realize how many millionaires there are in the US.  Among those millionaires, those space tourists are just average Joes.

Maybe you could possibly look up the meaning of the term "average Joe"?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 09:29:20 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron?
I don't think that you realize how many millionaires there are in the US.  Among those millionaires, those space tourists are just average Joes.

Maybe you could possibly look up the meaning of the term "average Joe"?
Maybe you could look up the concept of a qualifier?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 11:53:28 AM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron?
I don't think that you realize how many millionaires there are in the US.  Among those millionaires, those space tourists are just average Joes.

Maybe you could possibly look up the meaning of the term "average Joe"?
Maybe you could look up the concept of a qualifier?

I have.  Maybe you could look it up now? 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 12:08:24 PM
The OP asked what would happen when the average Joe could go to space and see what the shape of the Earth is.  I responded that it is a hypothetical situation, and now I am being attacked.  I thought I was talking to adults here.
And I merely pointed out that several average Joe multi-millionaires have already been to space and have seen the shape of the earth themselves.  I thought that I was talking to someone who could get a point.

I am sorry, but how could an average Joe be a multimillionaire?  Is that not an oxymoron?
I don't think that you realize how many millionaires there are in the US.  Among those millionaires, those space tourists are just average Joes.

Maybe you could possibly look up the meaning of the term "average Joe"?
Maybe you could look up the concept of a qualifier?

I have.  Maybe you could look it up now?
Then perhaps you should look again because I qualified "average Joe" with the word "millionaire" to adjust the context to something more relevant to the current prices for space tourist flights like those offered by VG and Space Adventures.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: ausGeoff on September 24, 2014, 05:05:46 PM
I have.  Maybe you could look it up now?


As per your demands of everyone else here jroa, could you please refrain from posting numerous low content one-liner comments in the upper forums?  Thanks; it distracts from the initial thrust of the thread.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 07:00:52 PM
Then perhaps you should look again because I qualified "average Joe" with the word "millionaire" to adjust the context to something more relevant to the current prices for space tourist flights like those offered by VG and Space Adventures.

When was the last VG Space Adventure? 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 07:49:37 PM
Then perhaps you should look again because I qualified "average Joe" with the word "millionaire" to adjust the context to something more relevant to the current prices for space tourist flights like those offered by VG and Space Adventures.

When was the last VG Space Adventure?
How is that relevant?  I said that VG was offering the flights, which they currently are.  I never said anything about VG actually carrying out any flights yet.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 24, 2014, 08:06:14 PM
Then perhaps you should look again because I qualified "average Joe" with the word "millionaire" to adjust the context to something more relevant to the current prices for space tourist flights like those offered by VG and Space Adventures.

When was the last VG Space Adventure?
How is that relevant?  I said that VG was offering the flights, which they currently are.  I never said anything about VG actually carrying out any flights yet.

I can offer you rainbows with unicorns.  I can offer them all day long.  That does not mean I can deliver on my promises, though. 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
Then perhaps you should look again because I qualified "average Joe" with the word "millionaire" to adjust the context to something more relevant to the current prices for space tourist flights like those offered by VG and Space Adventures.

When was the last VG Space Adventure?
How is that relevant?  I said that VG was offering the flights, which they currently are.  I never said anything about VG actually carrying out any flights yet.

I can offer you rainbows with unicorns.  I can offer them all day long.  That does not mean I can deliver on my promises, though.
Can you deliver a relevant argument, or is that just another pipe dream offer?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 25, 2014, 06:05:35 AM
When they stop just offering and start doing, then this will be relevant.  Also, this is not a debate forum, markjo. 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: QuQu on September 25, 2014, 10:27:28 AM
Sooner or later they will start. Matter of time.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 25, 2014, 11:24:36 AM
It has always been a matter of time...
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 25, 2014, 01:14:00 PM
What's the matter with it being a matter of time?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Son of Orospu on September 26, 2014, 04:13:03 PM
What's the matter with it being a matter of time?

It matters when a matter of time turns into never.  See the difference? 
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: Rama Set on September 26, 2014, 05:25:25 PM
What's the matter with it being a matter of time?

It matters when a matter of time turns into never.  See the difference?

By the time it is never, you will be dead.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 26, 2014, 06:17:07 PM
What's the matter with it being a matter of time?

It matters when a matter of time turns into never.  See the difference?
Just because you may not live to see it, that doesn't mean that it'll never happen.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 26, 2014, 09:17:06 PM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?
How many people have been at real high altitude?

I have a strange feeling that these flights will take place at night time and the so called space plane will have a few vertical viewing port hole windows for the gullible fools to look up into space, making them believe they actually are.

A fool and their money are easily parted.

OR.
An actor and their pay day, are easily manipulated into telling a space story for the ever gullible public.
They still haven't solved the problem of high altitude flight and the effects on planes.

(http://)

It's about looking into your own mind and grabbing that part of it that has the sticker on it saying "common sense and logic" then pushing back the part that is stamped "gullible."

I said I would repost "tomorrow". Sorry for procrastinating.

Here it is: I once read a series, the Old Kingdom/Abhorsen series. The series focuses on two nations, the Old Kingdom and Ancelstierre. Ancelstierre is the equivalent of early 20th century Britain, culture and technology-wise. The Old Kingdom is a monarchy, with cities and villages scattered across it, with more medieval technology. This is due to the fact that magic exists and is very prominent there, and causes anything from guns to printed paper to stop working/degrade. The opposite happens in Ancelstierre, the magic users cease to be able to use their magic. The two nations are separated by the Wall, a wall made up of stone and mortar. The Wall is less about separating the kingdoms, and more about keeping someone or something malevolent from sneaking across. There are two types of magic in the Old Kingdom, Charter magic and Free magic. Charter magic is the "good" magic, used for everyday things like light and whatnot. Free magic is the "bad" magic, used by necromancers to raise the dead. There are also beings made out of Free magic, who (as we find out in the last two books) can cause quite a bit of trouble. This sounds quite ridiculous. The government of Ancelstierre thinks so too. Not trusting such a nation of complete loons, they post military personnel on their side of the wall. Unfortunately, as the Ancelstierran soldiers soon find out, the magic is very real, and the weapons prove very useless so close to the Old Kingdom. Even more unfortunate is the fact that malevolent creatures actually do often try to sneak across. And that they like to taste of human blood. The Ancelstierran soldiers are forced to learn Charter magic to combat these creatures, which proves to be only slightly more reliable than their weapons. To add even more misfortune, the dead soldiers don't stay dead (their afterlife works in a way that soul can crawl it's way back if it tries hard enough, or is called by a necromancer). The only way to keep dead soldiers from rising is calling the Abhorsen ( a sort of anti-necromancer), and he does blah blah blah....anyways, the Ancelstierran government keeps sending troops to the Wall, dismissing "silly" claims of magic creatures and the undead. The Ancelstierran government (FE) denies evidence of magic (RE), and their soldiers suffer for it. Ancelstierran government officials can easily cross the Wall and see for themselves; but they don't. Does Ancelstierre really expect people to not wonder what is across the huge ass Wall separating the nations? After the events of the series, many people will most definitely want to know what the hell goes on on the other side of the wall. It's true, FE isn't really that comparable to a whole government, but in truth, there are many people willing to believe that the Earth is flat. Imagine the world using the FE model as standard. Imagine the hundreds of thousands who would die in plane crashes using a false, incomplete model to attempt to transverse the Earth.

My main point is this; It doesn't matter what's being claimed. Whether it's the existence of magic, mole people, unicorns shitting out fire-breathing chocolate dragons, if there is legit, empirical, solid evidence, and you deny it without consideration (like Ancelstierre) you are the true fool, who cares nothing for the absolute truth, whatever you may claim.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 27, 2014, 07:50:39 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?
How many people have been at real high altitude?

I have a strange feeling that these flights will take place at night time and the so called space plane will have a few vertical viewing port hole windows for the gullible fools to look up into space, making them believe they actually are.

A fool and their money are easily parted.

OR.
An actor and their pay day, are easily manipulated into telling a space story for the ever gullible public.
They still haven't solved the problem of high altitude flight and the effects on planes.

(http://)

It's about looking into your own mind and grabbing that part of it that has the sticker on it saying "common sense and logic" then pushing back the part that is stamped "gullible."

I said I would repost "tomorrow". Sorry for procrastinating.

Here it is: I once read a series, the Old Kingdom/Abhorsen series. The series focuses on two nations, the Old Kingdom and Ancelstierre. Ancelstierre is the equivalent of early 20th century Britain, culture and technology-wise. The Old Kingdom is a monarchy, with cities and villages scattered across it, with more medieval technology. This is due to the fact that magic exists and is very prominent there, and causes anything from guns to printed paper to stop working/degrade. The opposite happens in Ancelstierre, the magic users cease to be able to use their magic. The two nations are separated by the Wall, a wall made up of stone and mortar. The Wall is less about separating the kingdoms, and more about keeping someone or something malevolent from sneaking across. There are two types of magic in the Old Kingdom, Charter magic and Free magic. Charter magic is the "good" magic, used for everyday things like light and whatnot. Free magic is the "bad" magic, used by necromancers to raise the dead. There are also beings made out of Free magic, who (as we find out in the last two books) can cause quite a bit of trouble. This sounds quite ridiculous. The government of Ancelstierre thinks so too. Not trusting such a nation of complete loons, they post military personnel on their side of the wall. Unfortunately, as the Ancelstierran soldiers soon find out, the magic is very real, and the weapons prove very useless so close to the Old Kingdom. Even more unfortunate is the fact that malevolent creatures actually do often try to sneak across. And that they like to taste of human blood. The Ancelstierran soldiers are forced to learn Charter magic to combat these creatures, which proves to be only slightly more reliable than their weapons. To add even more misfortune, the dead soldiers don't stay dead (their afterlife works in a way that soul can crawl it's way back if it tries hard enough, or is called by a necromancer). The only way to keep dead soldiers from rising is calling the Abhorsen ( a sort of anti-necromancer), and he does blah blah blah....anyways, the Ancelstierran government keeps sending troops to the Wall, dismissing "silly" claims of magic creatures and the undead. The Ancelstierran government (FE) denies evidence of magic (RE), and their soldiers suffer for it. Ancelstierran government officials can easily cross the Wall and see for themselves; but they don't. Does Ancelstierre really expect people to not wonder what is across the huge ass Wall separating the nations? After the events of the series, many people will most definitely want to know what the hell goes on on the other side of the wall. It's true, FE isn't really that comparable to a whole government, but in truth, there are many people willing to believe that the Earth is flat. Imagine the world using the FE model as standard. Imagine the hundreds of thousands who would die in plane crashes using a false, incomplete model to attempt to transverse the Earth.

My main point is this; It doesn't matter what's being claimed. Whether it's the existence of magic, mole people, unicorns shitting out fire-breathing chocolate dragons, if there is legit, empirical, solid evidence, and you deny it without consideration (like Ancelstierre) you are the true fool, who cares nothing for the absolute truth, whatever you may claim.
I agree - if there is  evidence then it would be wise to follow it. What legitimate solid evidence is there for anything you claim?
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2014, 08:15:56 AM
What legitimate solid evidence is there for anything you claim?
Wow!  You're a bold one for asking that question.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 27, 2014, 08:58:44 AM
Taking gullible people high up into the atmosphere, they can be told they are on the edge of space and would simply have to accept it, when all they are is at high altitude. Let's face it, how would anyone know?
How many people have been at real high altitude?

I have a strange feeling that these flights will take place at night time and the so called space plane will have a few vertical viewing port hole windows for the gullible fools to look up into space, making them believe they actually are.

A fool and their money are easily parted.

OR.
An actor and their pay day, are easily manipulated into telling a space story for the ever gullible public.
They still haven't solved the problem of high altitude flight and the effects on planes.

(http://)

It's about looking into your own mind and grabbing that part of it that has the sticker on it saying "common sense and logic" then pushing back the part that is stamped "gullible."

I said I would repost "tomorrow". Sorry for procrastinating.

Here it is: I once read a series, the Old Kingdom/Abhorsen series. The series focuses on two nations, the Old Kingdom and Ancelstierre. Ancelstierre is the equivalent of early 20th century Britain, culture and technology-wise. The Old Kingdom is a monarchy, with cities and villages scattered across it, with more medieval technology. This is due to the fact that magic exists and is very prominent there, and causes anything from guns to printed paper to stop working/degrade. The opposite happens in Ancelstierre, the magic users cease to be able to use their magic. The two nations are separated by the Wall, a wall made up of stone and mortar. The Wall is less about separating the kingdoms, and more about keeping someone or something malevolent from sneaking across. There are two types of magic in the Old Kingdom, Charter magic and Free magic. Charter magic is the "good" magic, used for everyday things like light and whatnot. Free magic is the "bad" magic, used by necromancers to raise the dead. There are also beings made out of Free magic, who (as we find out in the last two books) can cause quite a bit of trouble. This sounds quite ridiculous. The government of Ancelstierre thinks so too. Not trusting such a nation of complete loons, they post military personnel on their side of the wall. Unfortunately, as the Ancelstierran soldiers soon find out, the magic is very real, and the weapons prove very useless so close to the Old Kingdom. Even more unfortunate is the fact that malevolent creatures actually do often try to sneak across. And that they like to taste of human blood. The Ancelstierran soldiers are forced to learn Charter magic to combat these creatures, which proves to be only slightly more reliable than their weapons. To add even more misfortune, the dead soldiers don't stay dead (their afterlife works in a way that soul can crawl it's way back if it tries hard enough, or is called by a necromancer). The only way to keep dead soldiers from rising is calling the Abhorsen ( a sort of anti-necromancer), and he does blah blah blah....anyways, the Ancelstierran government keeps sending troops to the Wall, dismissing "silly" claims of magic creatures and the undead. The Ancelstierran government (FE) denies evidence of magic (RE), and their soldiers suffer for it. Ancelstierran government officials can easily cross the Wall and see for themselves; but they don't. Does Ancelstierre really expect people to not wonder what is across the huge ass Wall separating the nations? After the events of the series, many people will most definitely want to know what the hell goes on on the other side of the wall. It's true, FE isn't really that comparable to a whole government, but in truth, there are many people willing to believe that the Earth is flat. Imagine the world using the FE model as standard. Imagine the hundreds of thousands who would die in plane crashes using a false, incomplete model to attempt to transverse the Earth.

My main point is this; It doesn't matter what's being claimed. Whether it's the existence of magic, mole people, unicorns shitting out fire-breathing chocolate dragons, if there is legit, empirical, solid evidence, and you deny it without consideration (like Ancelstierre) you are the true fool, who cares nothing for the absolute truth, whatever you may claim.
I agree - if there is  evidence then it would be wise to follow it. What legitimate solid evidence is there for anything you claim?
For RE? Quite a lot. The paramount of which is direct observation. Surely there's someway you can get some sort of camera something into space. Then you can confirm it yourself. Of course, the fact that most communications technology depends on satellites in orbit should phase you, but doesn't, much like the Ancelstierran government isn't phased by the fact that their soldiers are dying by the dozens each day.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: sceptimatic on September 27, 2014, 04:40:16 PM
For RE? Quite a lot. The paramount of which is direct observation. Surely there's someway you can get some sort of camera something into space. Then you can confirm it yourself. Of course, the fact that most communications technology depends on satellites in orbit should phase you, but doesn't, much like the Ancelstierran government isn't phased by the fact that their soldiers are dying by the dozens each day.
You mention getting some sort of camera into space like it's as simple as 123.
I could get a camera up to a certain height with a helium balloon, maybe so many thousands of feet but that would be about it.
I'm not going to see any Earth shape that is a true reflection of it. Think about scale and picture your camera at x amount of thousands of feet in relation to Earth size. It just isn't happening.
It's like putting an ant on a step ladder with any binoculars and telling it to have a panoramic view of its Earth.
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 27, 2014, 07:53:18 PM
For RE? Quite a lot. The paramount of which is direct observation. Surely there's someway you can get some sort of camera something into space. Then you can confirm it yourself. Of course, the fact that most communications technology depends on satellites in orbit should phase you, but doesn't, much like the Ancelstierran government isn't phased by the fact that their soldiers are dying by the dozens each day.
You mention getting some sort of camera into space like it's as simple as 123.
I could get a camera up to a certain height with a helium balloon, maybe so many thousands of feet but that would be about it.
I'm not going to see any Earth shape that is a true reflection of it. Think about scale and picture your camera at x amount of thousands of feet in relation to Earth size. It just isn't happening.
It's like putting an ant on a step ladder with any binoculars and telling it to have a panoramic view of its Earth.

Try looking into the FE debate forum, or anywhere an RE'er posts anything on this forum. They provide tons of evidence, such as: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62097.0#.VCdr7xY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62097.0#.VCdr7xY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62125.0#.VCdzxhY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62125.0#.VCdzxhY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62037.0#.VCd0CBY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62037.0#.VCd0CBY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62016.msg0#new (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62016.msg0#new)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62063.0#.VCd0eBY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62063.0#.VCd0eBY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62043.0#.VCd0lhY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62043.0#.VCd0lhY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62035.0#.VCd1dxY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62035.0#.VCd1dxY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62029.msg0#new (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62029.msg0#new)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62027.0#.VCd1qRY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62027.0#.VCd1qRY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62015.0#.VCd3GBY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62015.0#.VCd3GBY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.0#.VCd3SxY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.0#.VCd3SxY0-yo)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62009.0#.VCd37hY0-yo (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62009.0#.VCd37hY0-yo)
And so on and so forth
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: neimoka on September 27, 2014, 08:34:48 PM
You mention getting some sort of camera into space like it's as simple as 123.
I could get a camera up to a certain height with a helium balloon, maybe so many thousands of feet but that would be about it.
I'm not going to see any Earth shape that is a true reflection of it. Think about scale and picture your camera at x amount of thousands of feet in relation to Earth size. It just isn't happening.
It's like putting an ant on a step ladder with any binoculars and telling it to have a panoramic view of its Earth.

Cubesat. Granted, that would take some effort and funds, but you'd get live pics from ~300km altitude orbit for a few weeks. Maybe fes could make a joint effort to launch one to gather evidence for the earth being flat ;)
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: thoughtful1 on September 27, 2014, 09:26:16 PM
Commercial Spaceflight will be an elaborate hoax as no one will be going anywhere outside the "spaceship" once they walk on to it.
The information being gathered from the US government in the B.R.A.I.N. project they are currently working on will allow them to finally make fully believable "movies in the minds" of people. Check it out:

http://blog.brainfacts.org/2013/04/the-science-behind-obamas-brain-project/#.VCeNt_ldXFs (http://blog.brainfacts.org/2013/04/the-science-behind-obamas-brain-project/#.VCeNt_ldXFs)

They will fully believe they went to space and back, when they simply perceived a hologram-like simulation. Most expensive "movie" ever - and no popcorn, even!
Title: Re: Commercial Spaceflight
Post by: The Ellimist on September 28, 2014, 08:05:00 AM
Commercial Spaceflight will be an elaborate hoax as no one will be going anywhere outside the "spaceship" once they walk on to it.

Baseless assumption. Next

Quote
The information being gathered from the US government in the B.R.A.I.N. project they are currently working on will allow them to finally make fully believable "movies in the minds" of people. Check it out:
http://blog.brainfacts.org/2013/04/the-science-behind-obamas-brain-project/#.VCeNt_ldXFs (http://blog.brainfacts.org/2013/04/the-science-behind-obamas-brain-project/#.VCeNt_ldXFs)
Yea, I think you misread. I says nothing about movies of the mind in that article.

Quote
They will fully believe they went to space and back, when they simply perceived a hologram-like simulation. Most expensive "movie" ever - and no popcorn, even!

Citation needed.