The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Technology, Science & Alt Science => Topic started by: ausGeoff on June 20, 2014, 11:47:12 AM

Title: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 20, 2014, 11:47:12 AM
From a round earther's perspective, alleged "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and are just a manifestation of yet another conspiracy theory.


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-U2FYLzY9E24/UkmI5JCPAVI/AAAAAAAAGF4/xTZZOG9eBFA/s1600/chemtrail.jpg)



What we see in the image (above) are correctly described as "contrails".  Contrails are lengthy condensation "trails" formed behind jet aircraft when their engine's condensate rapidly freezes into ice crystals.  When burned, fuel containing hydrogen is combined with oxygen in the air to form water vapour, among other byproducts.  Contrails form when water vapour in the exhaust from jet engines then freezes high in the troposphere where aircraft cruise. If the ambient air is dry, contrails will evaporate almost immediately. The ambient air must be close to saturation with water for a persistent condensation trail to form.



And this image (below) shows what chemtrails look like (and European Honey Buzzards):

 
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2tOu6gF3F_w/T6geWL-ZLRI/AAAAAAAAE8k/_Y8oYifHGa8/s1600/021.)

 

Patrick Minnis Ph.D,  B.Eng,  M.Sc, a senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, studied satellite images of contrail clouds of military craft during the three days airports were shut down in the US after the 9/11 attacks.  On a typical day, an estimated 13,000 planes criss-cross the nation's skies.

They create so many contrails that cross each other's paths that the satellite images are just a blur.  Minnis found that the cirrus clouds formed from these contrails lasted an average of six to eight hours and that six to eight contrails can grow to form a cloud cover the size of Massachusetts.

To understand the extent to which conspiracy theorists are prepared to go, check out these two images which were posted to two separate blogs:
 
 
(http://newyorkskywatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/pilots_d.jpg)

100's of commercial airline pilots protesting in New York against chemtrails...
They don't look like conspiracy theorists to me.
(Meaning responsible airline captains couldn't and/or wouldn't be lying would they?  And they, of all people, should know.)

 


(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/28/article-0-0E1D765400000578-497_634x422.jpg)

Over 700 hundred Continental and United pilots, joined by additional pilots from other Air Line Pilots Association
(ALPA) carriers, demonstrate in front of Wall Street on September 27, 2011 in New York City.


The first image (obviously) is from a "chemtrail" conspiracy site, and the second image is from the UK Daily Mail (Australia) site.  I wonder how many flat earthers also believe that the US government is spraying its citizens with some sort of chemical cocktail in order to dumb them down?  I don't for a moment believe it is, but judging by some of the weird and wonderful responses from the flat earthers, I'm beginning to have a tiny modicum of doubt.    ;D
 
 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 20, 2014, 12:15:10 PM
From a round earther's perspective, alleged "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and are just a manifestation of yet another conspiracy theory.
And any other sane person.
Can we move on from this topic?
I mean, really, what's this doing in FE General?
What does this have to do with a flat Earth?

Why do you feel a need to feed the trolls of this site?
You're doing all of us a great disservice, especially when we just finished a multi-page thread on this exact same topic. (Which was also in the upper fora, and stayed there for whatever reason.)

All chemtrail nonsense should be promptly moved to CN.
That's what it is, after all.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 20, 2014, 12:25:44 PM
From a round earther's perspective, alleged "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and are just a manifestation of yet another conspiracy theory.
And any other sane person.
Can we move on from this topic?
I mean, really, what's this doing in FE General?
What does this have to do with a flat Earth?

Why do you feel a need to feed the trolls of this site?
You're doing all of us a great disservice, especially when we just finished a multi-page thread on this exact same topic. (Which was also in the upper fora, and stayed there for whatever reason.)

All chemtrail nonsense should be promptly moved to CN.
That's what it is, after all.

Well, FE general is for conspiracy related topics. One could argue that the "RE conspiracy" is run by the same people that do chemtrails. How are chemtrails any more ridiculous than FET?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 20, 2014, 12:32:06 PM
From a round earther's perspective, alleged "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and are just a manifestation of yet another conspiracy theory.
And any other sane person.
Can we move on from this topic?
I mean, really, what's this doing in FE General?
What does this have to do with a flat Earth?

Why do you feel a need to feed the trolls of this site?
You're doing all of us a great disservice, especially when we just finished a multi-page thread on this exact same topic. (Which was also in the upper fora, and stayed there for whatever reason.)

All chemtrail nonsense should be promptly moved to CN.
That's what it is, after all.

Well, FE general is for conspiracy related topics. One could argue that the "RE conspiracy" is run by the same people that do chemtrails. How are chemtrails any more ridiculous than FET?
Is all of this just an over-elaborate attempt to knock a straw man down?
Obviously those are contrails.
FE General is for FE related conspiracy topics. Not things like chemtrail conspiracies.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 20, 2014, 03:00:43 PM
From a round earther's perspective, alleged "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and are just a manifestation of yet another conspiracy theory.
And any other sane person.
Can we move on from this topic?
I mean, really, what's this doing in FE General?
What does this have to do with a flat Earth?

Why do you feel a need to feed the trolls of this site?
You're doing all of us a great disservice, especially when we just finished a multi-page thread on this exact same topic. (Which was also in the upper fora, and stayed there for whatever reason.)

All chemtrail nonsense should be promptly moved to CN.
That's what it is, after all.

Well, FE general is for conspiracy related topics. One could argue that the "RE conspiracy" is run by the same people that do chemtrails. How are chemtrails any more ridiculous than FET?
Is all of this just an over-elaborate attempt to knock a straw man down?
Obviously those are contrails.
FE General is for FE related conspiracy topics. Not things like chemtrail conspiracies.

Anyway, regardless of where the thread belongs, I think it's interesting that you think chemtrails are an absurdity not even worthy of discussion, yet a conspiracy that fakes Moon landings and ISS footage is not only debatable but plausible. Please correct me if I've got you confused with someone else. If not, why is one less likely than the other?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Son of Orospu on June 21, 2014, 02:10:49 AM
In my opinion, this topic is fine for FEG.  We do have an active thread with almost the exact same subject, but I don't see an issue with people making new threads to focus on different aspects of the topic being discussed.  Others may disagree with me, though. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 21, 2014, 03:08:05 AM
All chemtrail nonsense should be promptly moved to CN.
That's what it is, after all.
Hey, once you have opened the door to one barking mad conspiracy theory, you might as well go with them all.

Chemtrails are absolute bullshit - a theory perpetuated by paranoid scientific illiterates.  However they still have more chance of being real than the flat earth.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 21, 2014, 01:44:02 PM
ausGeoff:

"Patrick Minnis Ph.D,  B.Eng,  M.Sc, a senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, studied satellite images of contrail clouds of military craft during the three days airports were shut down in the US after the 9/11 attacks.  On a typical day, an estimated 13,000 planes criss-cross the nation's skies.

They create so many contrails that cross each other's paths that the satellite images are just a blur.  Minnis found that the cirrus clouds formed from these contrails lasted an average of six to eight hours and that six to eight contrails can grow to form a cloud cover the size of Massachusetts."


Can you explain the section I've made bold? Am I to understand that on an average day, satellite photography will not produce anything other than a blurry mess due to the contrails?

Hmmm. You know where I'm going with this, don't you?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 21, 2014, 02:07:15 PM
Around air travel hubs in certain weather? Perhaps, yeah. This video (http://www.wired.com/2014/03/plane-viz/) aside from being an epic, (if slightly overproduced) visualisation shows you (as will the real sky, outside) that most of the world isn't covered by contrails.

/edit: That quote would also imply that the rest of the time satellite photos work fine.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 21, 2014, 02:14:38 PM
Around air travel hubs in certain weather? Perhaps, yeah. This video (http://www.wired.com/2014/03/plane-viz/) aside from being an epic, (if slightly overproduced) visualisation shows you (as will the real sky, outside) that most of the world isn't covered by contrails.

/edit: That quote would also imply that the rest of the time satellite photos work fine.

You have interpreted (and made stuff up about) the NASA source to support your beliefs. I suggest you re-read it.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 21, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Is that a NASA source? I can't find that quote anywhere but chemtrail conspiracy sites and places debunking chemtrail conspiracies.
Is it in context?
Does he mean all satellite imagery?
Does "just a blur" mean measurably more blurred than without contrails or does it mean useless as you've assumed?

If you can find the quote in context, I'd like to read it. Even out of context I'm not sure what you think it implies other than 1. satellites and photography from them have been real for some time. 2. their quality has been degraded recently due to the chemtrail conspiracy.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 22, 2014, 12:02:20 AM

And any other sane person.
Can we move on from this topic?
I mean, really, what's this doing in FE General?
What does this have to do with a flat Earth?


Hmmm... why so defensive?

I posted this topic under "Flat Earth General" which is described as being  For the discussion of any FE topics unrelated to Flat Earth Theory. CONSPIRACY topics belong here.

Just because you can't defend the "chemtrails" conspiracy doesn't mean others may not have an interest.  If you're not interested in the topic, please feel free to ignore it as it seems to upset you much.



Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 22, 2014, 12:10:55 AM

They create so many contrails that cross each other's paths that the satellite images are just a blur.  Minnis found that the cirrus clouds formed from these contrails lasted an average of six to eight hours and that six to eight contrails can grow to form a cloud cover the size of Massachusetts."[/i]

Can you explain the section I've made bold? Am I to understand that on an average day, satellite photography will not produce anything other than a blurry mess due to the contrails?

Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 22, 2014, 02:44:47 AM
I've no idea where legion gets his quote from, and I bet he has no idea of the provenance either.  However here is an interview with Minnis debunking chemtrails (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2007-02-22-contrails_x.htm) where he states:

Quote
During the course of his research, Minnis and associates have discovered that airplane contrails — the non- poisonous variety — actually create cirrus clouds on days they wouldn't usually exist. Because of this, he calculates that cirrus-cloud cover over the United States is increasing by 1% each decade.

So, no he doesn't suggest that contrails cover the whole earth every day - that would be damn silly.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 22, 2014, 09:19:54 AM
I've no idea where legion gets his quote from, and I bet he has no idea of the provenance either.  However here is an interview with Minnis debunking chemtrails (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2007-02-22-contrails_x.htm) where he states:

Quote
During the course of his research, Minnis and associates have discovered that airplane contrails — the non- poisonous variety — actually create cirrus clouds on days they wouldn't usually exist. Because of this, he calculates that cirrus-cloud cover over the United States is increasing by 1% each decade.

So, no he doesn't suggest that contrails cover the whole earth every day - that would be damn silly.

It wasn't my quote. It was ausGeoff's.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on June 22, 2014, 09:28:11 AM
I've no idea where legion gets his quote from, and I bet he has no idea of the provenance either.  However here is an interview with Minnis debunking chemtrails (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2007-02-22-contrails_x.htm) where he states:

Quote
During the course of his research, Minnis and associates have discovered that airplane contrails — the non- poisonous variety — actually create cirrus clouds on days they wouldn't usually exist. Because of this, he calculates that cirrus-cloud cover over the United States is increasing by 1% each decade.

So, no he doesn't suggest that contrails cover the whole earth every day - that would be damn silly.

It wasn't my quote. It was ausGeoff's.

You don't think in that quote they were talking about contrails created by the em teased number of military jets in the air during 9/11?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 22, 2014, 09:53:14 AM
I've no idea where legion gets his quote from, and I bet he has no idea of the provenance either.  However here is an interview with Minnis debunking chemtrails (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2007-02-22-contrails_x.htm) where he states:

Quote
During the course of his research, Minnis and associates have discovered that airplane contrails — the non- poisonous variety — actually create cirrus clouds on days they wouldn't usually exist. Because of this, he calculates that cirrus-cloud cover over the United States is increasing by 1% each decade.

So, no he doesn't suggest that contrails cover the whole earth every day - that would be damn silly.

It wasn't my quote. It was ausGeoff's.

You don't think in that quote they were talking about contrails created by the em teased number of military jets in the air during 9/11?

No.

"Patrick Minnis Ph.D,  B.Eng,  M.Sc, a senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, studied satellite images of contrail clouds of military craft during the three days airports were shut down in the US after the 9/11 attacks. On a typical day, an estimated 13,000 planes criss-cross the nation's skies. [Not the three days where flights were grounded]

They create so many contrails that cross each other's paths that the satellite images are just a blur.  Minnis found that the cirrus clouds formed from these contrails lasted an average of six to eight hours and that six to eight contrails can grow to form a cloud cover the size of Massachusetts."
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 22, 2014, 09:56:32 AM
You obviously missed my clarification of this first time around legion:

"Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time".

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 22, 2014, 10:50:07 AM
You obviously missed my clarification of this first time around legion:

Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 22, 2014, 11:14:50 AM
The original quote doesn't even seem to be genuine, or if it is, it doesn't mean what you think it means. Can you find an original source for it? It only seems to be on chemtrail websites as far as I can see.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 22, 2014, 11:38:37 AM
The original quote doesn't even seem to be genuine, or if it is, it doesn't mean what you think it means. Can you find an original source for it? It only seems to be on chemtrail websites as far as I can see.

Ask ausGeoff. I agree that some more context would be helpful.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 23, 2014, 08:26:25 AM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?

Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 23, 2014, 08:36:54 AM

This article may clear up a few things:

Langley Scientist Takes the Conspiracy out of Contrails (http://usat.ly/UAAPpk)




Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Whiskey on June 23, 2014, 08:42:06 AM
The original quote doesn't even seem to be genuine, or if it is, it doesn't mean what you think it means. Can you find an original source for it? It only seems to be on chemtrail websites as far as I can see.

Ask ausGeoff. I agree that some more context would be helpful.

I'm missing what the big controversy is over his comments. He's basically saying that his study into single contrails is inhibited by the large number of contrails around transportation hubs and naturally occurring cirrus clouds. In any event he's researching the potential negative effects of contrails, not chemtrails, making his remarks irrelevant to the discussion.

• Contrails often form near to or within extant cirrus
• Air traffic over CONUS is dense & contrails form in overlapping
clusters
• Quantifying individual contrail effects difficult because of
continuous air traffic, existing cirrus clouds, and poor
measurements of humidity fields
• 2001 air traffic shutdown removed many impediments for
contrail study

http://www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu/aviation05downloads/Minnis.pdf (http://www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu/aviation05downloads/Minnis.pdf)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on June 23, 2014, 09:40:54 AM

This article may clear up a few things:

Langley Scientist Takes the Conspiracy out of Contrails (http://usat.ly/UAAPpk)
Oh, so you expect us to believe a NASA stooge?  ::)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 23, 2014, 10:11:50 AM
Oh, so you expect us to believe a NASA stooge?

Can you cite some references that prove Minnis is a "NASA stooge" or is this just an unsupported personal guess?  Guesses don't count in any scientific debate.  You should know that by now.


 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 23, 2014, 10:46:15 AM
Oh, so you expect us to believe a NASA stooge?

Can you cite some references that prove Minnis is a "NASA stooge" or is this just an unsupported personal guess?  Guesses don't count in any scientific debate.  You should know that by now.
....and you should know when someone is being sarcastic.

He even put a little eyes roll emiticon in case it wasn't clear...
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on June 23, 2014, 11:34:27 AM
Oh, so you expect us to believe a NASA stooge?

Can you cite some references that prove Minnis is a "NASA stooge" or is this just an unsupported personal guess?  Guesses don't count in any scientific debate.  You should know that by now.

You may be right.  Langley is also the home of the CIA, so he's probably a deep cover agent spreading conspiracy disinformation.

Come now Geoff, you've been here long enough that you should know how these conspiracy theories work by now.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on June 23, 2014, 11:42:31 AM
...you should know how these conspiracy theories work by now.

However they are needed to work?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 01:19:00 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 01:28:49 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
You should brush up on your understanding of "contrails" instead of "chemtrails" (which still, for the record, is not a word).
Searching and "learning" about "chemtrails" will just lead you to more conspiracy theory sites and the like.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 01:32:29 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
You should brush up on your understanding of "contrails" instead of "chemtrails" (which still, for the record, is not a word).
Searching and "learning" about "chemtrails" will just lead you to more conspiracy theory sites and the like.

The correct term is geoengineering. That is what interested people should research.

Edit: or Climate Engineering.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 01:38:48 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
You should brush up on your understanding of "contrails" instead of "chemtrails" (which still, for the record, is not a word).
Searching and "learning" about "chemtrails" will just lead you to more conspiracy theory sites and the like.

The correct term is geoengineering. That is what interested people should research.

Edit: or Climate Engineering.
No, the correct term is contrail. That's what people should research.
I've still yet to see any convincing evidence of either "chemtrails" or "geoengineering".
And they both aren't words.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 01:46:30 PM
from wikipedia article on Climate Engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_engineering)):

Weaponisation

In 1976, 85 countries signed the U.N. Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques. The Environmental Modification Convention generally prohibits weaponising geoengineering techniques. However, this does not eliminate the risk. Geoengineering techniques may serve as weapons of mass destruction, creating droughts or famines designed to destroy or disable an enemy. They could also be used simply to make battlefield conditions more favourable to one side or the other in a war. For example, laser-guided weapons are confounded by clouds, and thus switching off cloud machines would favour forces using such weapons, and switching them on would favour ground forces defending against them.

Whilst laws or treaties may prevent the manipulation of the climate as a weapon of war, it could be argued that geoengineering is itself a manipulation, and thus destroying or disabling the geoengineering structures is not prohibited. A new legal framework may be necessary in the event that large-scale geoengineering becomes established.

Carnegie's Ken Caldeira said, "It will make it harder to achieve broad consensus on developing and governing these technologies if there is suspicion that gaining military advantage is an underlying motivation for its development..."


So, weather modification has been possible since at least 1976? th3rm0m3t3r0, you were saying...?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 23, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 01:53:33 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?

Good point. They sit around all day and imagine what might be possible in the future and then all meet up and sign a treaty. Nice theory.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 23, 2014, 02:00:40 PM
It's called contingency planning.  I believe someone had made a claim about researching ways to alter weather and was followed by the treaty to ban the weaponization.  Better to ban it from the start than have to address it after a country gets hit by an earthquake, drought, and freak electrical storm resulting in millions of civilian deaths, right?  I imagine it's similar to the DoD having a zombie contingency plan.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:05:16 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?

Good point. They sit around all day and imagine what might be possible in the future and then all meet up and sign a treaty. Nice theory.
Do you have a better way to prevent things that you don't want to happen?  ::)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:09:32 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?

Good point. They sit around all day and imagine what might be possible in the future and then all meet up and sign a treaty. Nice theory.
Do you have a better way to prevent things that you don't want to happen?  ::)

Yes I do. Make sure you are more technologically advanced than everyone else. Then, when the SHTF, unleash weather war on them. That was evidently possible back in 1976, so goodness knows what they can do now.

By the way, how many zombie or dinosaur infestation treaties are there????
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:14:03 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?

Good point. They sit around all day and imagine what might be possible in the future and then all meet up and sign a treaty. Nice theory.
Do you have a better way to prevent things that you don't want to happen?  ::)

Yes I do. Make sure you are more technologically advanced than everyone else. Then, when the SHTF, unleash weather war on them. That was evidently possible back in 1976, so goodness knows what they can do now.

By the way, how many zombie or dinosaur infestation treaties are there????
Zombies and dinosaurs don't exist.
From you:
Quote
...85 countries signed the U.N. Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques...
So, who's trying to be more technologically advanced, and who are they trying to "unleash weather war" on"?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
How does a treaty signing equate to it being possible?

Good point. They sit around all day and imagine what might be possible in the future and then all meet up and sign a treaty. Nice theory.
Do you have a better way to prevent things that you don't want to happen?  ::)

Yes I do. Make sure you are more technologically advanced than everyone else. Then, when the SHTF, unleash weather war on them. That was evidently possible back in 1976, so goodness knows what they can do now.

By the way, how many zombie or dinosaur infestation treaties are there????
Zombies and dinosaurs don't exist.
From you:
Quote
...85 countries signed the U.N. Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques...
So, who's trying to be more technologically advanced, and who are they trying to "unleash weather war" on"?

I have no idea. I answered your question about what I would do.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 23, 2014, 02:19:52 PM
Zombies would be covered under biological warfare. I'm not sure if they have outlawed the use of engineered animals as weapons in war, butI'm sure PETA would be up in arms over that.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:24:19 PM
Zombies would be covered under biological warfare. I'm not sure if they have outlawed the use of engineered animals as weapons in war, butI'm sure PETA would be up in arms over that.

So, you don't believe that geoengineering is possible? Is that correct?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:25:44 PM
Zombies would be covered under biological warfare. I'm not sure if they have outlawed the use of engineered animals as weapons in war, butI'm sure PETA would be up in arms over that.
I'm not sure if zombies exist outside fantasy.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:30:14 PM
Zombies would be covered under biological warfare. I'm not sure if they have outlawed the use of engineered animals as weapons in war, butI'm sure PETA would be up in arms over that.
I'm not sure if zombies exist outside fantasy.

Remember, these people contingency plan. They have to have everything covered. Zombies, dinosaurs, aliens, killer ants, killer bees, killer frogs (you never know), locust swarms etc. The treaties must be never ending.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:32:44 PM
Zombies would be covered under biological warfare. I'm not sure if they have outlawed the use of engineered animals as weapons in war, butI'm sure PETA would be up in arms over that.
I'm not sure if zombies exist outside fantasy.

Remember, these people contingency plan. They have to have everything covered. Zombies, dinosaurs, aliens, killer ants, killer bees, killer frogs (you never know), locust swarms etc. The treaties must be never ending.
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:33:52 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:36:12 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:37:59 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:43:19 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 02:45:41 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Duck suggested contingency for things that can happen.
He didn't say they prepare for fantasy annihilation.
You took his point and applied it to things that can't happen, to make his point seem less relevant.
This is an example of a fallacious argument.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 23, 2014, 02:50:10 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
You should brush up on your understanding of "contrails" instead of "chemtrails" (which still, for the record, is not a word).
Searching and "learning" about "chemtrails" will just lead you to more conspiracy theory sites and the like.

The correct term is geoengineering. That is what interested people should research.

Edit: or Climate Engineering.

That's quite misleading as Climate Engineering and geoengineering are real terms in their own right. By calling chemtrails geoengineering you're sneaking in the premise that geoengineering and/or climate engineering involve the use of these so called chemtrails. However the whole argument here is whether chemtrails are actually being used for the purpose of modifying the climate etc. You don't get to just do an end run and refer to chemtrails as geoengineering. Which by the way in the normal use of the word has little to to with climate and more to do with geology, mining, groundwater and underground structures.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 02:59:44 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Duck suggested contingency for things that can happen.
He didn't say they prepare for fantasy annihilation.
You took his point and applied it to things that can't happen, to make his point seem less relevant.
This is an example of a fallacious argument.

Read again. You are wrong. Again.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 03:01:52 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Duck suggested contingency for things that can happen.
He didn't say they prepare for fantasy annihilation.
You took his point and applied it to things that can't happen, to make his point seem less relevant.
This is an example of a fallacious argument.

Read again. You are wrong. Again.
No, I'm not.
He said they have contingency planning for things like weather manipulation.
You know, things that could actually happen.
Not zombies and dinosaurs.
Your argument is fallacious.
See : "Straw Man".
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 03:02:52 PM

Well, your original post with the NASA quote didn't mention any of that. Have you made it up?

Contrary to the habits of many flat earthers, as a scientific rationalist and round earther, I never make stuff up.  I don't need to because the empirical evidence of the sciences during the past 400 years or so supports my claims.

Can you tell me specifically—what parts of my comment you disagree with?


Like any other "naturally" forming clouds, a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites.  Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured.  And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time.



Yes, of course.

1. "Like any other "naturally" forming clouds..." contrails/chemtrails are not natural.
2. "...a mass of overlapping contrails will definitely obscure part of the earth's surface from imaging satellites." How much of the earth? Enough to render all photos a blur?
3. "Which is why images are captured continuously with each orbit of the satellites.  If one part of the earth's surface is obscured by clouds—of any kind—then on the next orbit, or the next, its image will be captured." Why is there a need to have the surface of the earth photographed? I thought Minnis and co. were studying the atmosphere?
4. "And, obviously, all clouds move and/or dissipate over time." Apparently, they present a big problem for imaging satellites as planes are creating the trails day and night.

For the record, my understanding of chemtrails, or properly termed - Geoengineering, is that weather modification is the goal. Not poisoning the population.
You should brush up on your understanding of "contrails" instead of "chemtrails" (which still, for the record, is not a word).
Searching and "learning" about "chemtrails" will just lead you to more conspiracy theory sites and the like.

The correct term is geoengineering. That is what interested people should research.

Edit: or Climate Engineering.

That's quite misleading as Climate Engineering and geoengineering are real terms in their own right. By calling chemtrails geoengineering you're sneaking in the premise that geoengineering and/or climate engineering involve the use of these so called chemtrails. However the whole argument here is whether chemtrails are actually being used for the purpose of modifying the climate etc. You don't get to just do an end run and refer to chemtrails as geoengineering. Which by the way in the normal use of the word has little to to with climate and more to do with geology, mining, groundwater and underground structures.

What? Who says that is what geoengineering is?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 23, 2014, 03:04:04 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Duck suggested contingency for things that can happen.
He didn't say they prepare for fantasy annihilation.
You took his point and applied it to things that can't happen, to make his point seem less relevant.
This is an example of a fallacious argument.

Read again. You are wrong. Again.
No, I'm not.
He said they have contingency planning for things like weather manipulation.
You know, things that could actually happen.
Not zombies and dinosaurs.
Your argument is fallacious.

The replies are there for all to see. Apart from you, obviously.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 03:09:19 PM
What duckdodgers is suggesting is actually quite funny:

ambassador 1: How do we know you haven't got a farm or numerous farms filled with killer donkeys?
ambassador 2: You don't. But we suspect you might have a fleet of killer penguins!
ambassador 1: Bring out the treaty writer. Two new treaties (so far) today.
Real = Unreal = Win
+1 to you.

What?
Well, seeing as how weather exists, and zombies and dinosaurs do not - I think this is more of a straw man than anything.
You're equating the real and unreal - and trying to use it to support your point.

duck suggested that these people contingency plan. Not me. Get your facts straight.
Duck suggested contingency for things that can happen.
He didn't say they prepare for fantasy annihilation.
You took his point and applied it to things that can't happen, to make his point seem less relevant.
This is an example of a fallacious argument.

Read again. You are wrong. Again.
No, I'm not.
He said they have contingency planning for things like weather manipulation.
You know, things that could actually happen.
Not zombies and dinosaurs.
Your argument is fallacious.

The replies are there for all to see. Apart from you, obviously.
You're exaggerating his point to make yours seem more credible, and his less credible.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 23, 2014, 03:11:22 PM
Just because something is impossible now doesn't mean it won't be possible in the future.
I.E.- Things like weather manipulation.

Things that reside in the realm of 100% fantasy will never be possible.
I.E.- Things like zombie attacks.

Get it?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 23, 2014, 03:41:36 PM

The correct term is geoengineering. That is what interested people should research.

Edit: or Climate Engineering.

That's quite misleading as Climate Engineering and geoengineering are real terms in their own right. By calling chemtrails geoengineering you're sneaking in the premise that geoengineering and/or climate engineering involve the use of these so called chemtrails. However the whole argument here is whether chemtrails are actually being used for the purpose of modifying the climate etc. You don't get to just do an end run and refer to chemtrails as geoengineering. Which by the way in the normal use of the word has little to to with climate and more to do with geology, mining, groundwater and underground structures.

What? Who says that is what geoengineering is?

Well recently it's become synonymous with Climate Engineering, but Geoengineering can also refer to Geological Engineering, which has to do with the mining etc.

Anyway, it's still up for debate whether chemtrails are a real thing that has to do with Climate Engineering or Geoengineering. Of course chemtrail people want it in that category because it gets more respect that way. Kind of like how creationists will call themselves "Creation Scientists" and (lol) "Intelligent Design Theorists".

My point is, you don't just get to associate your thing with an actual real thing without providing any reason for it to belong in that category.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 23, 2014, 05:04:30 PM
To be fair, I was the one that brought up zombies.  However, I just mentioned that the DoD has a zombie contingency plan, as an example of security groups who have planned for impossible events.  This does not mean the DoD believes that a zombie outbreak is imminent or even remotely possible.  The thing about the weather stuff, it's much more probable than zombies, and if I recall correctly work was being started to look into ways to control the weather.  This type of work could potentially be very dangerous and it makes sense that people would take it seriously enough to not allow weaponized weather much like weaponized diseases are not allowed.  The threat to civilian populations is too great.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 23, 2014, 08:59:23 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 11:56:46 AM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 12:17:06 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.

5. and 6. don't in any way follow from 1-4. You go from saying the "chemtrail conspiracy is vague and undefined", and "some geoengineering may have already occurred", to "chemtrails are responsible for ongoing geoengineering"

Maybe you could take a step back and give reasons and evidence for contrails having added chemicals in them?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 12:23:52 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.

5. and 6. don't in any way follow from 1-4. You go from saying the "chemtrail conspiracy is vague and undefined", and "some geoengineering may have already occurred", to "chemtrails are responsible for ongoing geoengineering"

Maybe you could take a step back and give reasons and evidence for contrails having added chemicals in them?

They are my conclusions. Others are welcome to draw their own.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 24, 2014, 12:29:24 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 24, 2014, 01:05:54 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.
Yes, all of the world's governments are conspiring against the citizens of the world to hit their own land with hurricane and earthquakes.
They love to spend all the money initially doing that, and then all the money emergency services cost, and all the money rebuilding the area costs...
With no gain.
Highly logical!
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 01:19:09 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.
Yes, all of the world's governments are conspiring against the citizens of the world to hit their own land with hurricane and earthquakes.
They love to spend all the money initially doing that, and then all the money emergency services cost, and all the money rebuilding the area costs...
With no gain.
Highly logical!

Who said they are only hitting their own lands?

You are really naive, aren't you? Governments are filled with kind, loving, honest people who just want you to be happy? And the military are also filled with the same kinds of saints? And scientists never conduct experiments where harm may come to some people?

You should leave your Mum's basement every once in a while.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 01:23:07 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 01:26:37 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.

5. and 6. don't in any way follow from 1-4. You go from saying the "chemtrail conspiracy is vague and undefined", and "some geoengineering may have already occurred", to "chemtrails are responsible for ongoing geoengineering"

Maybe you could take a step back and give reasons and evidence for contrails having added chemicals in them?

They are my conclusions. Others are welcome to draw their own.

Nobody can stop you from drawing conclusions that are illogical and make no sense, I guess.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 01:28:07 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 01:33:06 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?

Point out the logical error.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 24, 2014, 01:40:36 PM
I've already told you about the Pentagon having a plan for zombies.  Besides, there is no need to sign an extra treaty as using these fictitious creatures as weapons would be equivalent to biological warfare, which is already prohibited.
Do you have any evidence which does show that weather had been controllable as far back as 77?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 02:01:28 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?

Point out the logical error.

One problem I can see is affirming the consequent.

1. Chemtrails cause geoengineering
2. Geoengineering exists.
3. Therefore chemtrails exist.

However geoengineering doesn't necessarily involve chemtrails so your reasoning isn't valid.

It's like saying

1. Rain will cause the street to get wet.
2. The street is wet
3. Therefore it's raining

Streets can get wet from things like floods and overenthusiastic lawn sprinkling.

Also, you haven't even shown that chemtrails can cause geoengineering, because nobody has ever shown that chemtrails are anything other than just normal contrails.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 02:10:56 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?

Point out the logical error.

One problem I can see is affirming the consequent.

1. Chemtrails cause geoengineering
2. Geoengineering exists.
3. Therefore chemtrails exist.

However geoengineering doesn't necessarily involve chemtrails so your reasoning isn't valid.

It's like saying

1. Rain will cause the street to get wet.
2. The street is wet
3. Therefore it's raining

Streets can get wet from things like floods and overenthusiastic lawn sprinkling.

Also, you haven't even shown that chemtrails can cause geoengineering, because nobody has ever shown that chemtrails are anything other than just normal contrails.

Rubbish.

1. Geoengineering exists.
2. Geoengineering is concerned, amongst other activities, with modifying the weather.
3. This is achieved through releasing chemicals into the atmosphere.
4. Therefore, some vapour trails are chemtrails.
5. Therefore, chemtrails exist.

Logical errors, my arse.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 02:12:50 PM
I've already told you about the Pentagon having a plan for zombies.  Besides, there is no need to sign an extra treaty as using these fictitious creatures as weapons would be equivalent to biological warfare, which is already prohibited.
Do you have any evidence which does show that weather had been controllable as far back as 77?

Name one international signed treaty involving a hypothetical scenario.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 24, 2014, 02:23:04 PM
You already have... the treaty from 1977.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 02:25:58 PM
You already have... the treaty from 1977.

And what is your reasoning that this was hypothetical?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 24, 2014, 02:29:08 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 24, 2014, 02:30:31 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

Based on what reasoning or evidence?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 24, 2014, 02:32:47 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html (http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html)

Except, "they" can. This is simple technology, too. I'm surprised you are so ignorant. The Govt has large tornado machines in secret bases across the world. This explains most freak tornado occurrences, like several that were documented in the mid-west. Next time you post, please do some research.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 02:46:25 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html (http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html)

Except, "they" can. This is simple technology, too. I'm surprised you are so ignorant. The Govt has large tornado machines in secret bases across the world. This explains most freak tornado occurrences, like several that were documented in the mid-west. Next time you post, please do some research.

Tornadoes in the Midwest? What a crazy freak occurrence!

http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html (http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 24, 2014, 02:48:53 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html (http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html)

Except, "they" can. This is simple technology, too. I'm surprised you are so ignorant. The Govt has large tornado machines in secret bases across the world. This explains most freak tornado occurrences, like several that were documented in the mid-west. Next time you post, please do some research.

Tornadoes in the Midwest? What a crazy freak occurrence!

http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html (http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html)

and I suppose you believe these are all natural occurrences too, huh?    ::)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 24, 2014, 03:14:19 PM

"Chemtrails" is nothing more than a made-up word coined by conspiracy theorists, and has no more scientific credence than other made-up things like "atmoplane", atmolayer" and even "denpressure".

Incidentally, Australia's CSIRO was seeding clouds with salt and silver iodide in the 1950s to produce rain.  The official term for this process is "weather modification".  Pretty obvious name for it I guess.

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977: http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070914081350/http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/4783.htm)
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.
Yes, all of the world's governments are conspiring against the citizens of the world to hit their own land with hurricane and earthquakes.
They love to spend all the money initially doing that, and then all the money emergency services cost, and all the money rebuilding the area costs...
With no gain.
Highly logical!

Who said they are only hitting their own lands?

You are really naive, aren't you? Governments are filled with kind, loving, honest people who just want you to be happy? And the military are also filled with the same kinds of saints? And scientists never conduct experiments where harm may come to some people?

You should leave your Mum's basement every once in a while.
So there are just crazy weather wars all about the plane of the Earth, eh?
Interesting.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 24, 2014, 03:16:44 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html (http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html)

Except, "they" can. This is simple technology, too. I'm surprised you are so ignorant. The Govt has large tornado machines in secret bases across the world. This explains most freak tornado occurrences, like several that were documented in the mid-west. Next time you post, please do some research.

Tornadoes in the Midwest? What a crazy freak occurrence!

http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html (http://www.tornadochaser.net/tornalley.html)

and I suppose you believe these are all natural occurrences too, huh?    ::)
Wait, so now you've adapted your theory to what legion has been saying?
Why no mention of the "geoengineering" anywhere prior to this?
Are they making LSD tornadoes? :o
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on June 24, 2014, 03:32:26 PM
Quote
Are they making LSD tornadoes? :o

I certainly hope so.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 24, 2014, 03:38:14 PM
When the treaty was written up, manipulating weather seemed like a possibility. The treaty was drawn up for the same reasons as the ones governing the weaponisation of space, the colonisation of the moon and so on - because these things seemed imminent enough that they were worth laying the ground rules for.

Sure, you can seed clouds and dump iron in the ocean and see what happens, but there's no evidence of anyone doing much more than that.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on June 24, 2014, 03:39:06 PM
Are they making LSD tornadoes? :o
Why not?  They have Sharknados...
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 24, 2014, 04:25:23 PM
You're assuming that I meant tornados were caused by chemtrails, when I never explicitly said that.  Tornados are caused by large wind machines, and of course by natural causes as well.

Its moronic to even suggest that chemtrails could cause something like a tornado to begin with. I thought you all were reasonably intelligent until you made that connection. Chems don't make tornados, period. Trails don't make them either. Maybe your misunderstanding about trails is what causes you to think that they could be made by exhaust? Perhaps you should do some research.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 24, 2014, 04:49:42 PM
Because the weaponization of weather is impossible today, let alone then.  You can make a rain storm or thunderstorm.  However, you can't make a tornado occur and direct it to a specific location.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html (http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/artificial-tornado-plan-to-generate.html)

Except, "they" can. This is simple technology, too. I'm surprised you are so ignorant. The Govt has large tornado machines in secret bases across the world. This explains most freak tornado occurrences, like several that were documented in the mid-west. Next time you post, please do some research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_engine)
It's still in prototype and nothing larger than a 4 meter chamber has been created.  That is really a weaponized tornado  ::)
It also requires a lot of machinery to cause it to happen, and though I didn't watch a video of it, I assume the cyclone forms from the ground up.  I don't know when the last time you saw a tornado was, but it generally forms from the clouds down, as a cloud wall and funnel cloud are signs of imminent danger of a tornado.
Also, since when is it abnormal for the Midwest to have tornadoes?  It has been labeled as tornado alley for decades, there is a reason Dorothy was carried away by a tornado in Kansas and not in Michigan.  Can you even post evidence for the "secret bases" containing tornado machines that can magically make tornadoes appear in varying locations each time?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 24, 2014, 05:18:03 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?

Point out the logical error.

One problem I can see is affirming the consequent.

1. Chemtrails cause geoengineering
2. Geoengineering exists.
3. Therefore chemtrails exist.

However geoengineering doesn't necessarily involve chemtrails so your reasoning isn't valid.

It's like saying

1. Rain will cause the street to get wet.
2. The street is wet
3. Therefore it's raining

Streets can get wet from things like floods and overenthusiastic lawn sprinkling.

Also, you haven't even shown that chemtrails can cause geoengineering, because nobody has ever shown that chemtrails are anything other than just normal contrails.

Rubbish.

1. Geoengineering exists.
2. Geoengineering is concerned, amongst other activities, with modifying the weather.
3. This is achieved through releasing chemicals into the atmosphere.
4. Therefore, some vapour trails are chemtrails.
5. Therefore, chemtrails exist.

Logical errors, my arse.

4. is what you're trying to prove. Quit sneaking in premises.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 24, 2014, 06:21:25 PM
Your conclusion regarding that treaty is still faulty, as has already been pointed out.

You say it is faulty. I say there is plenty of evidence of weather modification going back decades.

Have any countries signed a zombie treaty? Or any other (thus far) fictional scenario requiring contingency planning?

No? Of course not. Technology which is available, at the time, is what they hope to prevent misuse of.

LOGIC says it's faulty, as well as DuckDodgers. It just doesn't logically follow, so why would you even want to draw that conclusion?

Point out the logical error.

One problem I can see is affirming the consequent.

1. Chemtrails cause geoengineering
2. Geoengineering exists.
3. Therefore chemtrails exist.

However geoengineering doesn't necessarily involve chemtrails so your reasoning isn't valid.

It's like saying

1. Rain will cause the street to get wet.
2. The street is wet
3. Therefore it's raining

Streets can get wet from things like floods and overenthusiastic lawn sprinkling.

Also, you haven't even shown that chemtrails can cause geoengineering, because nobody has ever shown that chemtrails are anything other than just normal contrails.

Rubbish.

1. Geoengineering exists.
2. Geoengineering is concerned, amongst other activities, with modifying the weather.
3. This is achieved through releasing chemicals into the atmosphere.
4. Therefore, some vapour trails are chemtrails.
5. Therefore, chemtrails exist.

Logical errors, my arse.

4. is what you're trying to prove. Quit sneaking in premises.
All of these premises are pretty ridiculous to me.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 24, 2014, 10:33:59 PM

To offer my conclusions to this thread:

1. The chemtrail conspiracy is an undefined, vague concept that doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
Which is actually quite logical, as "chemtrails" simply don't exist, and never have.  Which is why their purported existence is termed a conspiracy.

Quote
2. The real conspiracy is geoengineering or climate modification which could be at least partially responsible for freakish weather and so called "natural" disasters.
Like much of your flat earth pseudo-science, you're confusing "weather" with "climate".  Two different things altogether.  Your weasel words, "could", at least" and "partially" prove the weakness of your argument.

Quote
3. The above was deemed serious enough for an international treaty to be signed in 1977.
The Environmental Modification Convention (ENMOD) does not mention "chemtrails".  Why quote the Convention?  It's not a scientifically accredited term; just something the conspiracists have made up.

Quote
4. The treaty was signed because some countries were already engaged in geoengineering and recognised the potential for enormous, lasting damage. I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if a "natural" disaster led to the treaty.
You need to know that your repeated use of the term "geoengineering" is erroneous.  It's obvious you don't understand what it means, other than it sounds knowledgeable LOL. Geoengineering refers to the exploration, development, and extraction of subsurface earth resources, and has nothing at all to do with the weather.  One of the more recent environmental modification techniques used was the US aerial spraying of napalm in order to defoliate large tracts of Vietnam.

Quote
5. So yes, some of the trails in the sky contain extra chemicals for the purposes of weather modification.
Citation please.  Personal opinions are valueless without viable supporting evidence.

Quote
6. Therefore, chemtrails are fact.
Non sequitur.  See [5] above.


Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 24, 2014, 11:06:24 PM

You are really naive, aren't you? Governments are filled with kind, loving, honest people who just want you to be happy? And the military are also filled with the same kinds of saints? And scientists never conduct experiments where harm may come to some people?


And you really need to more thoroughly investigate all these conspiracy theories you so easily fall for at first glance.  I'm guessing you'd agree with the following bizarre conspiracy theory?

Many conspiracy theorists (you, maybe?) consider the Great Seal of the United States and the motto Novus Ordo Seclorum (new order of the ages) to be Masonic and to mean New World Order.  These purported "facts" are considered evidence in the argument to prove the vast conspiracy of the Illuminati.  It's useless to argue against these "facts" with conspiracy theorists. They consider everyone else to be dupes—who would note that the Latin is usually translated as "New Order of the Ages" and that the symbol of the eye in the pyramid relates to a poem in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  Even granting that the Great Seal of the United States and the symbols on the US dollar bill are Masonic (which they are not) and that Novus Ordo Seclorum means New World Order (which it does not), nothing significant follows, certainly not that there is a vast, government-sanctioned conspiracy to take over the world.

I do agree that governments have conducted experiments that have harmed people.  The British nuclear tests in Australia are a classic example of government malfeasance:  "...troops had been ordered to run, walk and crawl across areas contaminated by the Buffalo, SA tests in the days immediately following the detonations; a fact that the British government later admitted.  In 2001, UK researcher Dr Sue Rabbit Roff stated that "it puts the lie to the British government's claim that they never used humans for guinea pig-type experiments in nuclear weapons trials in Australia".

—And your snide comment about mother's basements is typical of the childish personal insults flat earthers so often resort to.  How long is it since you graduated grade school sonny?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2014, 05:33:45 AM
1. Geoengineering exists.
2. Geoengineering is concerned, amongst other activities, with modifying the weather.
3. This is achieved through releasing chemicals into the atmosphere.
4. Therefore, some vapour trails are chemtrails.
5. Therefore, chemtrails exist.

Logical errors, my arse.
If chemtrails are supposed to modify weather, then why are the chemicals released at a altitude well above where most weather happens?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 25, 2014, 02:17:10 PM
1. Geoengineering exists.
2. Geoengineering is concerned, amongst other activities, with modifying the weather.
3. This is achieved through releasing chemicals into the atmosphere.
4. Therefore, some vapour trails are chemtrails.
5. Therefore, chemtrails exist.

Logical errors, my arse.
If chemtrails are supposed to modify weather, then why are the chemicals released at a altitude well above where most weather happens?

You'll have to explain the following to me:

1. How do you know the height at which chemicals are released?
2. How do you know the height when weather 'stops happening'?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 25, 2014, 02:29:42 PM

You are really naive, aren't you? Governments are filled with kind, loving, honest people who just want you to be happy? And the military are also filled with the same kinds of saints? And scientists never conduct experiments where harm may come to some people?


And you really need to more thoroughly investigate all these conspiracy theories you so easily fall for at first glance.  I'm guessing you'd agree with the following bizarre conspiracy theory?

Many conspiracy theorists (you, maybe?) consider the Great Seal of the United States and the motto Novus Ordo Seclorum (new order of the ages) to be Masonic and to mean New World Order.  These purported "facts" are considered evidence in the argument to prove the vast conspiracy of the Illuminati.  It's useless to argue against these "facts" with conspiracy theorists. They consider everyone else to be dupes—who would note that the Latin is usually translated as "New Order of the Ages" and that the symbol of the eye in the pyramid relates to a poem in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  Even granting that the Great Seal of the United States and the symbols on the US dollar bill are Masonic (which they are not) and that Novus Ordo Seclorum means New World Order (which it does not), nothing significant follows, certainly not that there is a vast, government-sanctioned conspiracy to take over the world.

I do agree that governments have conducted experiments that have harmed people.  The British nuclear tests in Australia are a classic example of government malfeasance:  "...troops had been ordered to run, walk and crawl across areas contaminated by the Buffalo, SA tests in the days immediately following the detonations; a fact that the British government later admitted.  In 2001, UK researcher Dr Sue Rabbit Roff stated that "it puts the lie to the British government's claim that they never used humans for guinea pig-type experiments in nuclear weapons trials in Australia".

—And your snide comment about mother's basements is typical of the childish personal insults flat earthers so often resort to.  How long is it since you graduated grade school sonny?

You make a lot of assumptions about conspiracy researchers. As usual with you, everything-is-fine-so-keep-working-and-keeping-the-wheels-turning types, you accept that small conspiracies happen, but cannot comprehend big conspiracies happening. You lack the imagination of your rulers.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2014, 06:04:49 PM
If chemtrails are supposed to modify weather, then why are the chemicals released at a altitude well above where most weather happens?

You'll have to explain the following to me:

1. How do you know the height at which chemicals are released?
I don't.  I'm not a chemtrail conspiracy theorist.

2. How do you know the height when weather 'stops happening'?
I didn't say that weather "stops happening" at any particular altitude, however it is common for commercial airliners to fly above bad weather.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: robintex on June 25, 2014, 08:16:31 PM
You're assuming that I meant tornados were caused by chemtrails, when I never explicitly said that.  Tornados are caused by large wind machines, and of course by natural causes as well.

Its moronic to even suggest that chemtrails could cause something like a tornado to begin with. I thought you all were reasonably intelligent until you made that connection. Chems don't make tornados, period. Trails don't make them either. Maybe your misunderstanding about trails is what causes you to think that they could be made by exhaust? Perhaps you should do some research.

Aha ! You might think those things with those large propellers are wind generators- that is, generating electricity from wind - but they are really giant fans - that is,  generating wind from electricity - that are creating all those wind storms and tornados ! And those radar antennas twirling around, windmills and even the little whirligigs you see in people's yards are really wind machines that are causing all those wind storms and tornadoes. They are all clever devices placed there by those evil scientists from NASA.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 26, 2014, 12:22:58 PM

You make a lot of assumptions about conspiracy researchers. As usual with you, everything-is-fine-so-keep-working-and-keeping-the-wheels-turning types, you accept that small conspiracies happen, but cannot comprehend big conspiracies happening. You lack the imagination of your rulers.


The fact that the British officers used 8,000 other ranks as guinea pigs to test the results of exposure to nuclear radiation was not and is not a "conspiracy".  At the time—the early 1950s—scientists (and the Australian DoD) had no idea of the longer-term, disastrous effects of exposure to nuclear radiation of the scale emitted at Maralinga and Emu Field.  In fact, of the people exposed to the ground radiation, not one died in the short term.  It was only decades later that they started showing signs of radiation sickness—hyperthyroidism, gastric dysfunction, blindness, melanomas, leukemia, various cancers, and genetic disorders in their future children.

A conspiracy theory alleges an event or events to be secretly influenced by a premeditated group or groups of powerful people or organizations working together.

There was no secrecy involved with these tests; I remember watching the newsreel footage at the time, and being overawed by the stuff I was seeing.  As in WOW!!!  I can recall long rows of soldiers, all wearing dark glasses, looking towards ground zero.  At the detonation point, as one they all turned away, then a minute or two later, all turned back to watch the aftermath.

Anyway... to date their has not been one proven medical disorder to any person that confirms that any sort of injurious chemicals are being secretly sprayed into our atmosphere.  It's also telling that no "chemtrail" conspiracy theorist has captured and contained any of these alleged chemical sprays for analysis. 

I guess part of the reason I started this topic again was to draw the more than obvious parallels between those who believe in a flat earth, and those who believe in "chemtrails.

The pro-chemtrail responses from flat earthers, and their dismissal by round earthers have confirmed my opinion that if people believe in one alleged conspiracy, then they'll be likely to believe in them all.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 26, 2014, 01:59:27 PM
There are several FErs who are arguing against chemtrails also. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 26, 2014, 04:39:19 PM
But no REs arguing for?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 26, 2014, 06:16:58 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of RErs that would argue for a chemtrail conspiracy.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 27, 2014, 05:57:26 AM
Sure, but they have a 10,000,000 to 1 advantage before you even get to chemtrails, I expect the proportion of FE enthusiasts amongst chemtrail folks is higher than that.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 27, 2014, 06:00:58 AM
You're probably right on that point.  But then again,  how many RErs actually care about the accuracy of science?  I'd wager that is about half.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 27, 2014, 06:03:53 AM
Far fewer, probably, and quite rightly. Science is outsourced to specialists so the rest of us can get on with our lives. We do the same thing with farming, for example. We do it with almost everything, in fact, it's essentially what civilisation is.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 27, 2014, 10:04:39 PM
I'd certainly agree with your earlier claim...

Quote
I'm sure there are plenty of RErs that would argue for a chemtrail conspiracy.
There's possibly tens of thousands of round earthers that claim that fictitious "chemtrails" actually exist outside of science fiction stories.  Which, I have to admit, I find rather disillusioning.

You're probably right on that point.  But then again,  how many RErs actually care about the accuracy of science?  I'd wager that is about half.

I don't think it's as simple as "caring" about the accuracy of science.  The average layman accepts contemporary scientific theory simply because he doesn't possess the necessary intellectual qualifications to analyse it at anything other than a superficial level.  Quantum mechanics and string theory—for example—are way above the intellectual prowess of probably 99% of the wider population, but those millions of scientists who do understand it are worthy of our trust.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: FlatAllTheWay on June 28, 2014, 09:44:35 AM
A common fallacy I see on this forum applies to the chemtrail issue:  the fact that something is possible is not evidence that it has happened.  I am happy to admit that an airplane could spray chemicals from the sky, and that those chemicals could have some effect on the weather.  But this fact alone is not evidence that this has ever actually happened.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 12:24:30 PM
It is very interesting that you all still cling to the idea that chemtrails do not exist, yet the govt has admitted to spraying chems into the Earth's atmosphere. Why do you all deny evidence, even when it's from the source?

Read this article for further information. (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/18/nasa-admits-to-chemtrails-as-they-propose-spraying-stratospheric-aerosols-into-earths-atmosphere/)

“We do stuff in the stratosphere all the time off-course, so it’s not as though the stratosphere is absolutely pristine. But you don’t want to have people going off and doing things that involve large radioactive forgings, or programs that go on for extended periods or for that matter provide lots of reactive surfaces that could result in significant ozone destruction.”
- M. Granger Morgan, Carnegie Mellon University, University and Lord Chair Professor of Engineering and Public Policy, National Academy of Sciences Member

Please open your eyes. It is childish to keep them closed when the evidence for chemtrails is overwhelming. The fact is: NASA has admitted to spraying a variety of chems into the Earth's atmosphere. They have admitted this. Can we stop talking about this now? All of you detractors are wrong. I know it's hard to accept defeat, but please try to have some dignity. You're all embarrassing yourselves at this point.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 12:32:00 PM
It is very interesting that you all still cling to the idea that chemtrails do not exist, yet the govt has admitted to spraying chems into the Earth's atmosphere. Why do you all deny evidence, even when it's from the source?

Read this article for further information. (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/18/nasa-admits-to-chemtrails-as-they-propose-spraying-stratospheric-aerosols-into-earths-atmosphere/)

“We do stuff in the stratosphere all the time off-course, so it’s not as though the stratosphere is absolutely pristine. But you don’t want to have people going off and doing things that involve large radioactive forgings, or programs that go on for extended periods or for that matter provide lots of reactive surfaces that could result in significant ozone destruction.”
- M. Granger Morgan, Carnegie Mellon University, University and Lord Chair Professor of Engineering and Public Policy, National Academy of Sciences Member

Please open your eyes. It is childish to keep them closed when the evidence for chemtrails is overwhelming. The fact is: NASA has admitted to spraying a variety of chems into the Earth's atmosphere. They have admitted this. Can we stop talking about this now? All of you detractors are wrong. I know it's hard to accept defeat, but please try to have some dignity. You're all embarrassing yourselves at this point.
Did you read the headline?
Do you know what "proposes" means?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 12:34:07 PM
I always suspected that you didn't know what you were talking about and now you've just confirmed it. Please don't respond without reading the article. Your stupid is showing.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
I always suspected that you didn't know what you were talking about and now you've just confirmed it. Please don't respond without reading the article. Your stupid is showing.
Your arrogance astounds me sometimes.
Try to find a source for that claim that's actually reputable.
USAToday :
Quote
With the skies so full of contrails, it can be hard to see how long they last or how far they move. So the government found a way to do some checking. Imagine what the chemtrailers thought the day they flew a DC-8 off the coast of Northern California, in perfectly clear air, and went round and round over the same area to make a racetrack pattern for Minnis and others to watch.

They tracked the massive oval as it passed over Northern California, floated over the Sierra Nevada mountain range and disappeared. Another time, a plane nicknamed the NASA Vomit Comet made a figure-8 in the sky off the Texas coast.

Minnis tracked the contrail for 14 hours as it oozed over the Gulf of Mexico, then across Florida, before it turned into an amorphous blob.

"Again," he said, "if you had been sitting in a fishing boat down in the Gulf, you would have just thought this thing was a cirrus cloud."

Unless you were a chemtrailer — then you would be even more sure that something was up. For the record, even though the government has planes and the government can make clouds, "There is no real truth to weather modification," Minnis said. "That is not going on now. What we're able to do now is inadvertent."

I know the internet is a place where everyone in the world can get together and share information.
I also know that you must sift through the information and separate the actual information from the disinformation.
You seem like you've missed this simple idea.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 12:50:59 PM
Besides, what's being talked about in that article is nothing close to your claim that they're dosing us with minute amounts of LSD.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 12:55:48 PM
Are a plethora of quotes by NASA employees not enough for you, Th3rm0?  It seems like you're the one missing the point here. Are the words they use to big for you to understand? Give me a few minutes and I'll type up some simple-English explanations for you. It's a damn shame that I have to treat you like a child when the proper reaction to 90% of your postings is "you're a fucking moron". Thankfully, I'm a nice guy.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 12:57:20 PM
Besides, what's being talked about in that article is nothing close to your claim that they're dosing us with minute amounts of LSD.
Strange how you resort to ad-hominem when you are trying to assert that you've won this debate.
I wish I could say I thought you were better than that.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 01:06:43 PM
If you were talking to me: It's not an ad-hominen when it's been proven amply that you cannot read and/or your comprehension skills are incredibly low. I have not seen you bring anything to any debate you've been in other than "no the earth is flat" or "no, chemtrails are ludicrous". And of course, you never address the points of others. You avoid answering questions and acknowledging facts that prove you're wrong. Similar to RE'ers. Are you sure you're not an RE'er?

You do know how a debate works right? Have you ever considered taking a break from the internet and getting some schooling? I'm not trying to be insulting, so please try not to take offense to this. I seriously believe that this will help you develop intellectually, and it might also help you understand how to quote posts correctly. If you need pointers, you can always PM me.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 01:16:30 PM
If you were talking to me: It's not an ad-hominen when it's been proven amply that you cannot read and/or your comprehension skills are incredibly low. I have not seen you bring anything to any debate you've been in other than "no the earth is flat" or "no, chemtrails are ludicrous". And of course, you never address the points of others. You avoid answering questions and acknowledging facts that prove you're wrong. Similar to RE'ers. Are you sure you're not an RE'er?

You do know how a debate works right? Have you ever considered taking a break from the internet and getting some schooling? I'm not trying to be insulting, so please try not to take offense to this. I seriously believe that this will help you develop intellectually, and it might also help you understand how to quote posts correctly. If you need pointers, you can always PM me.
Not sure why you're so mad at me.
So far, I've not only denied what you were saying, but also:
1. Given you (and others) ample reason to believe what you're saying about LSD is not true.
2. Pointed out that this is only an idea in conspiracy theorists' minds.
3. Explained to you why your article is not evidence for your claims - that article says nothing about LSD or poison.
4. Showed to you (with information from a reputable, credible source) that contrails can turn into clouds without the need for any strange chemicals involved.

I've read your entire article.
You really think your argument is more sound, when you've literally got no evidence to support any claim you've made thus far?
Anyone want to help me out with this one? I have to go to work.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 01:36:35 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on June 28, 2014, 02:43:32 PM
Does this qualify as a reputable source?

https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/publications/1965/nsb1265.pdf (https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/publications/1965/nsb1265.pdf)

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on June 28, 2014, 03:10:28 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.


Dude, where is your bloodtest?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 28, 2014, 04:09:06 PM
I don't have time to read that paper right now, was there anything in there outside of "we have seeded clouds to cause rain and we are attempting but haven't succeeded in trying to dissipate warm fog, hail, lightning, hurricanes, etc."?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 28, 2014, 04:23:46 PM
It is very interesting that you all still cling to the idea that chemtrails do not exist, yet the govt has admitted to spraying chems into the Earth's atmosphere. Why do you all deny evidence, even when it's from the source?

Read this article for further information. (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/18/nasa-admits-to-chemtrails-as-they-propose-spraying-stratospheric-aerosols-into-earths-atmosphere/)

“We do stuff in the stratosphere all the time off-course, so it’s not as though the stratosphere is absolutely pristine. But you don’t want to have people going off and doing things that involve large radioactive forgings, or programs that go on for extended periods or for that matter provide lots of reactive surfaces that could result in significant ozone destruction.”
- M. Granger Morgan, Carnegie Mellon University, University and Lord Chair Professor of Engineering and Public Policy, National Academy of Sciences Member

Please open your eyes. It is childish to keep them closed when the evidence for chemtrails is overwhelming. The fact is: NASA has admitted to spraying a variety of chems into the Earth's atmosphere. They have admitted this. Can we stop talking about this now? All of you detractors are wrong. I know it's hard to accept defeat, but please try to have some dignity. You're all embarrassing yourselves at this point.

The Collective Evolution site is nothing more than a joke.  It's a hotbed of lunatic conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, distortions of accredited medicine; nonsensical alternative health; religious proselytizing;  anti-government and political bias etc.  The only thing they've got right, and not lied about?  They accept that Earth is a sphere.  Fabulous stuff indeed LOL.

They've also posted an image which—by implication—is intended to look like an aircraft full of drums containing deadly poisons for spraying into the atmosphere.  But panic not.  Those drums don't contain any chemicals of any sort.
 
 
(http://www.planespotter.ch/img/Paris_Le_Bourget/bild14.jpg)
Ref:  http://www.airliners.net/ (http://www.airliners.net/)
 
This is a view of the main cabin of an A380-841 Airbus as seen at the 2005 Dubai Airshow.
The aircraft was mainly fitted with test equipment and small sections of the proper interior.
The red-topped grey containers were water storage containers and these could be filled or
emptied to act as ballast and to simulate a passenger load.




And I'm glad that you've single-handedly exposed the US government and NASA's covert operations so successfully—from behind your keyboard:  "It is childish to keep them (your eyes) closed when the evidence for chemtrails is overwhelming."  Well done.  Now all you need to do is to give us a page of citations that proves your extraordinary claims.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 05:25:19 PM
Geoff, you've made the same claims about aerosol containers at least 4+ times now. We know you want us to think they are used for weight tests, but the evidence contradicts your claim completely.

How much is the government paying you to type these conditioned responses?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 28, 2014, 07:08:05 PM
I'm confused.
Vauxy, have you changed your stance on the whole LSD thing now?
Did you realize how ridiculous you were sounding?

Things to study: The non-existent equivalence of LSD chemtrails to government weather engineering.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 28, 2014, 07:19:07 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.

Pretty tough to disprove something like that don't you agree? You can't disprove I wasn't Marilyn Monroe in a former life. That doesn't mean I was though.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on June 28, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.
No, you didn't. That was easy to disprove.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 28, 2014, 11:38:38 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.

Pretty tough to disprove something like that don't you agree? You can't disprove I wasn't Marilyn Monroe in a former life. That doesn't mean I was though.

We could easily confirm this if you give us your birth date.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 29, 2014, 03:02:46 AM
Vauxhall is trolling you all so hard it is making my eyes water just looking at it.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 29, 2014, 09:49:08 AM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.

Pretty tough to disprove something like that don't you agree? You can't disprove I wasn't Marilyn Monroe in a former life. That doesn't mean I was though.

We could easily confirm this if you give us your birth date.
former life
former life
former life
former life
former life
And you say I have comprehension issues.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 29, 2014, 11:26:37 AM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on June 29, 2014, 11:29:02 AM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 29, 2014, 11:55:36 AM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
I think that's enough information to constitute a "proof" for Mr. Vauxy.  ;D
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 29, 2014, 02:00:53 PM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Ahhh, so that's how you work out if someone was Marilyn Monroe in a former life....I had been looking for a tried and tested method.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 29, 2014, 02:02:41 PM
Geoff, you've made the same claims about aerosol containers at least 4+ times now. We know you want us to think they are used for weight tests, but the evidence contradicts your claim completely.


Can you please cite a few references that prove that these containers are filled with some type of injurious chemicals rather than plain old tap water?  And what sort of chemicals do you claim they are specifically?

You're constantly making unfounded, blanket statements such as "the evidence proves otherwise" but then not once have you ever posted that "evidence" for us to consider.

So I'm asking you again to put your money where your mouth is, and actually post some empirical evidence to support your bizarre claims about alleged "chemtrails".

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 29, 2014, 02:31:14 PM
I've seen a flock of birds fly through a contrail and die immediately. Now either 40+ birds died at the same time for no reason or they were killed by the chems in the trail.  Disprove that.

The obvious answer is that although you witnessed the simultaneous death of a flock of birds, you may well have misinterpreted your observations.

Or, you've fallen for the cum hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy of logic... (jroa will like this!)

Many flocks/herds/schools/prides of animals die apparently spontaneously for no obvious causal reason.  Whales, fish, dolphins, elks, chickens, cows, even caterpillars and cicadas LOL. 

A couple of years ago, thousands of red-winged blackbirds and starlings literally rained from the sky in the US.  Necropsies by biologists revealed that the birds had suffered internal injuries that formed deadly blood clots.  Thurman Booth, Arkansas' wildlife services director said "There was probably some physical reason, but I doubt anyone will ever know what it was."  No mention of any chemicals in the birds' bloodstreams however.


Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 29, 2014, 02:48:48 PM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?

Not necessarily. Reincarnation is very complicated.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 30, 2014, 09:41:24 AM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
I think that's enough information to constitute a "proof" for Mr. Vauxy.  ;D

All I meant is that it's a possibility that he was Marilyn Monroe in a past life, not that he actually was. Further testing will need to be conducted.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 30, 2014, 11:58:55 AM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
I think that's enough information to constitute a "proof" for Mr. Vauxy.  ;D

All I meant is that it's a possibility that he was Marilyn Monroe in a past life, not that he actually was. Further testing will need to be conducted.
You don't say.
You would test this, how, exactly?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on June 30, 2014, 12:24:42 PM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
I think that's enough information to constitute a "proof" for Mr. Vauxy.  ;D

All I meant is that it's a possibility that he was Marilyn Monroe in a past life, not that he actually was. Further testing will need to be conducted.
You don't say.
You would test this, how, exactly?
I've heard that hypnosis is a good place to start for past life regression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression).
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 30, 2014, 12:41:40 PM
Monroe died in 1962. If Shmeggles was born before that date then there is no way he could have been Marilyn Monroe in a former life. You understand?
Are you saying if he was born after 1962 he was Marilyn Monroe?
I think that's enough information to constitute a "proof" for Mr. Vauxy.  ;D

All I meant is that it's a possibility that he was Marilyn Monroe in a past life, not that he actually was. Further testing will need to be conducted.
You don't say.
You would test this, how, exactly?
I've heard that hypnosis is a good place to start for past life regression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression).
I don't think I buy it.
My buddy's mother does that for a living.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on June 30, 2014, 03:45:26 PM
New evidence has come to light.

(http://38.media.tumblr.com/32d56e8379955870d3e603c6326e15cc/tumblr_n7riabjk8e1qzjw8go1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on June 30, 2014, 04:11:17 PM
Conclusive.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on June 30, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
We don't care if you buy it, th3rm0. The world doesn't revolve around you and your childish understanding of even the simplest ideas.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on June 30, 2014, 07:48:21 PM
We don't care if you buy it, th3rm0. The world doesn't revolve around you and your childish understanding of even the simplest ideas.
You know you used the word "chems" like it is actually a word. Seems to me you don't even understand that "chem" is short for chemical in"chemtrail".
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on June 30, 2014, 09:20:59 PM
Conclusive.

I agree totally.  Plus it's obviously an non-doctored, original photographic image which us round earthers won't be able to deny.

And to think that for all these years, I've assumed "contrails" were composed simply of H2O ice crystals.  Well, this photo's really confirmed to me that chemtrails do exist.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on June 30, 2014, 10:32:33 PM
We don't care if you buy it, th3rm0. The world doesn't revolve around you and your childish understanding of even the simplest ideas.
What? I was talking about past life regression.
Who do you mean we, by the way?
Multiple personality syndrome?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Vauxhall on July 01, 2014, 09:50:54 AM
We don't care if you buy it, th3rm0. The world doesn't revolve around you and your childish understanding of even the simplest ideas.
What? I was talking about past life regression.
Who do you mean we, by the way?
Multiple personality syndrome?

I was talking about past life regression too...
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on July 01, 2014, 12:07:24 PM
We don't care if you buy it, th3rm0. The world doesn't revolve around you and your childish understanding of even the simplest ideas.
What? I was talking about past life regression.
Who do you mean we, by the way?
Multiple personality syndrome?

I was talking about past life regression too...
Don't you mean we?
Past life regression is not a "simple idea" that you just need to "grasp".
I don't buy it. It's not like it's a fact that it works like they say it does.
There's nothing scientific about it.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on July 01, 2014, 03:06:50 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.



Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 01, 2014, 03:29:50 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 04:17:11 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
Well if you did your research properly . You would of come across a treaty signed in 1978 by all United nation signatory countries. That treaty was for the banning of weather modification. It is deemed under international law, an act of terrorism & a gross violation of human rights, for any country or corporation to engaging in weather modification with out consent . It is all so an act of terrorism & a gross violation of human rights to wilfully contaminate anther countries air & water supply. Have Governments been engaging in geoengineering & still are. YES. no consent from the population by Governments, in countries who are signatories & engaging in weather modification is an act of terrorism & a gross violation of human rights. Do you really think theses Government officials are going to admit they have been conducting  acts of terrorism on the non consenting population.               
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 04:52:47 PM
Here you go Geoff. http://www.colinandrews.net/Australian-Government-Contract.html (http://www.colinandrews.net/Australian-Government-Contract.html)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 05:28:40 PM

What's this add telling you Geoff. Its telling you if you where born in Australia after December 1984. Your not classed as a Human, a Natural person flesh & blood in law. Your deemed in law as not being  human &  just a corporate commodity.
 Geoengineering is not taking place ? bullshit its not. (http://#)

 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on July 01, 2014, 05:50:51 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 06:22:08 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 01, 2014, 06:35:05 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on July 01, 2014, 06:40:46 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 06:49:25 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on July 01, 2014, 06:54:55 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 01, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
More and more, we are seeing citizens being invited to "participate" in various forms of council held meetings involving the community & local groups to "help determine" public policy in one area or another. We are supposedly being included to get "input" from the public to help officials make final decisions on community issues or whatever the particular subject matter might be. Sounds great, doesn't it? Unfortunately, surface appearances are often deceiving.
You, Mr. or Mrs. Citizen, decide to take part in one of these meetings. Generally, you will find that there is already someone designated to lead or "facilitate" the meeting. Supposedly the job of the facilitator is to be a neutral, non-directing helper to see that the meeting flows smoothly. Actually, he or she is there for exactly the opposite reason: to see that the conclusions reached during the meeting are in accord with a plan already decided upon by those who called the meeting.
The process used to "facilitate" the meeting is called the Delphi Technique. This Delphi Technique was developed by the RAND Corporation for the U.S. Department of Defence back in the 1950s. It was originally intended for use as a psychological weapon during the cold war. However, it was soon recognized that the steps of Delphi could be very valuable in manipulating ANY meeting toward a pre-determined end.
How does the process take place? The techniques are well developed and well defined. First, the person who will be leading the meeting, the facilitator or Change Agent must be a likeable person with whom those participating in the meeting can agree or sympathize with. It is, therefore, the job of the facilitator to find a way to cause a split in the audience, to establish one or a few of the people as "bad guys" while the facilitator is perceived as the "good guy." Facilitators are trained to recognize potential opponents and how to make such people appear aggressive, foolish, extremist, etc. Once this is done, the facilitator establishes himself or herself as the "friend" of the rest of the audience. The stage is now set for the rest of the agenda to take place.
At this point, the audience is generally broken up into "discussion groups" of seven or eight people each. Each of these groups is to be led by a subordinate facilitator. Within each group, discussion takes place of issues, already decided upon by the leadership of the meeting. Here, too, the facilitator manipulates the discussion in the desired direction, isolating and demeaning opposing viewpoints. Generally, participants are asked to write down their ideas and disagreements with the papers to be turned in and "compiled" for general discussion after the general meeting is re-convened.
THIS is the weak link in the chain which you are not supposed to recognize. WHO compiles the various notes into the final agenda for discussion? AHHHH! Well, it is those who are running the meeting. How do you know that the ideas on YOUR notes were included in the final result. You DON'T! You may realize that your idea was NOT included and come to the conclusion that you were probably in the minority. Recognize that every OTHER citizen member of this meeting has written his or her likes or dislikes on a similar sheet of paper and they, too, have no idea whether THEIR ideas were "compiled" into the final result! You don't even know if ANYONE'S ideas are part of the final "conclusions" presented to the re-assembled group as the "consensus" of public opinion.
Rarely, does anyone challenge the process since each concludes that he or she was in the minority and different from all the others. So, now, those who organized the meeting in the first place are able to tell the participants AND THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY that the conclusions, reached at the meeting, are the result of public participation. Actually, the desired conclusions had been established, in the back room, long before the meeting ever took place. There are variations in the technique to fit special situations but, in general, the procedure outlined above takes place.
The natural question to ask here is: If the outcome was preordained BEFORE the meeting took place, WHY have the meeting? Herein lays the genius of this Delphi Technique. It is imperative that the general public believe that this program is THEIRS! They thought it up! They took part in its development! Their input was recognized! If people believe that the program is theirs, they will support it. If they get the slightest hint that the program is being imposed upon them, they will resist.
This VERY effective technique is being used, over and over and over, to change our form of lawful!!! Constitution &  lawful rights , intended by the Founding Fathers, into a "participatory deceptive democracy." Now, citizens chosen at large are manipulated into accepting present outcomes while they believe that the input they provided produced the outcomes which are now THEIRS! The reality is that the final outcome was already determined long before any public meetings took place,
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: 29silhouette on July 01, 2014, 09:48:29 PM
New evidence has come to light.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/32d56e8379955870d3e603c6326e15cc/tumblr_n7riabjk8e1qzjw8go1_1280.jpg (http://38.media.tumblr.com/32d56e8379955870d3e603c6326e15cc/tumblr_n7riabjk8e1qzjw8go1_1280.jpg)
Meh... photoshopped.  Anyone can use Gimp.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 02, 2014, 02:39:30 AM
Here you go Geoff. http://www.colinandrews.net/Australian-Government-Contract.html (http://www.colinandrews.net/Australian-Government-Contract.html)

Sorry Charles.  Colin Andrews is acknowledged as being deluded, daft and deranged.  He believes we've been visited by aliens as evidenced by crop circles; "alleged" weather radar anomalies; the (now obviously debunked) 2012 Mayan prophecy; the now debunked 2009 Norwegian spiral anomaly; the existence of UFOs; secret 2010 rain-making experiments in QLD that never eventuated; the Akashic Record; precognition and telepathy; chemtrails (of course!); the HAARP weather conspiracy; military mind control; the "power" of prayer; communication with the spirits of the dead; spontaneous healing ad nauseam.

To cite him as any sort of accredited expert on any of the sciences is worthless.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 02, 2014, 03:01:40 AM

What's this add telling you Geoff. Its telling you if you where born in Australia after December 1984. Your not classed as a Human, a Natural person flesh & blood in law. Your deemed in law as not being  human &  just a corporate commodity.
What the.....?  It's nothing more than an ad for insurance Charles.  Are you sure you're not under the influence of some hallucinatory drug?


Quote
Geoengineering is not taking place? bullshit its not.
Ahhh... so eloquent Charles.  You certainly have a way with words.  What a pity they're usually the wrong words LOL.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 04:21:14 AM

What's this add telling you Geoff. Its telling you if you where born in Australia after December 1984. Your not classed as a Human, a Natural person flesh & blood in law. Your deemed in law as not being  human &  just a corporate commodity.
What the.....?  It's nothing more than an ad for insurance Charles.  Are you sure you're not under the influence of some hallucinatory drug?


Quote
Geoengineering is not taking place? bullshit its not.
Ahhh... so eloquent Charles.  You certainly have a way with words.  What a pity they're usually the wrong words LOL.
I didn't make or are running  Health insurances add on television. I have though read the application form for an Australian  passport & the Nationality No24 act 1922. Assented to 18th October, 1922. Maybe you should look up that word indissoluble in law. Agenda lackey     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 02, 2014, 05:29:42 AM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 07:21:30 AM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Madeleine Alec on July 02, 2014, 07:28:44 AM
*whispering carefully*
how did debating about Planetology get here?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 07:32:46 AM
*whispering carefully*
how did debating about Planetology get here?
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Madeleine Alec on July 02, 2014, 07:39:09 AM
*whispering carefully*
how did debating about Planetology get here?
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way.

quietly backs away
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 07:55:50 AM
*whispering carefully*
how did debating about Planetology get here?
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way.

quietly backs away
Good for you. Chem trials or contrails. Its clear as the sky's aren't there is an intentional pretence of not noticing  by governments & mainstream media.Even though artificial clouds are forming regardless of the claims for there cause. When planes fly over leaving trails that then spread out & make a large cloud & you point it out & people pretend they dont see the trail or clouds form from it, then something doesn't seem to be quite right.   
     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 02, 2014, 08:49:58 AM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Yes, a forecasting method.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method)
Quote
The Delphi method (/ˈdɛlfaɪ/ del-fy) is a structured communication technique, originally developed as a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on a panel of experts.

Also, please provide this "original" file.  Which you just happen to have on another computer ::) 
Also, could not find the term "human exclusion zone" in the file that I have found.  ALso, while scrolling through, saw I saw no maps.

Please provide that too.

As far as I can tell, you are just taking the anti-agenda 21 propaganda at face value without actually even looking into what the UN has said about sustainability.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Madeleine Alec on July 02, 2014, 11:08:24 AM
*whispering carefully*
how did debating about Planetology get here?
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way.

quietly backs away
Good for you. Chem trials or contrails. Its clear as the sky's aren't there is an intentional pretence of not noticing  by governments & mainstream media.Even though artificial clouds are forming regardless of the claims for there cause. When planes fly over leaving trails that then spread out & make a large cloud & you point it out & people pretend they dont see the trail or clouds form from it, then something doesn't seem to be quite right.   
   

That doesn't seem right at all, no. Because the trails behind planes are ice crystals of condensation or whatnot, and not gas. And are these people so afraid of admitting the Earth is round that they've now resorted to discussing the legitimacy of clouds?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 05:22:24 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Yes, a forecasting method.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method)
Quote
The Delphi method (/ˈdɛlfaɪ/ del-fy) is a structured communication technique, originally developed as a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on a panel of experts.

Also, please provide this "original" file.  Which you just happen to have on another computer ::) 
Also, could not find the term "human exclusion zone" in the file that I have found.  ALso, while scrolling through, saw I saw no maps.

Please provide that too.

As far as I can tell, you are just taking the anti-agenda 21 propaganda at face value without actually even looking into what the UN has said about sustainability.
LOL Wikipedia  NO!!! university in Australia will except Wikipedia as a referencing  source for any paper presented. Because its not a reliable source for factual information.
I have taken on those implementing UN Agenda 21 at council state & federal level. UN agenda 21 is not Lawful in Australia, so why is it being implemented with out the consent of its sovereign people ?
If you think the Delphi is not a means to obtain a predetermined out come via fraud & deception. Then next time they run one in your neck of the woods asking  for community input. Insist all information tended & gathered & minutes taken at the meeting by those calling & facilitating it. Be put on public record. The meeting wont go ahead, you can bet your last dollar on it. Privacy laws have never been about protecting an individuals  privacy.There to protect those implementing the agenda & their fraudulent deceptive conduct (crime) from the public. When they tell you their protecting your privacy. What they are really doing is providing them self  No!!! requirement to provide any proof that you & the public voted for the out come of the proposal adopted .
               
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 05:54:02 PM
http://theunsolicitedopinion.com/maps/ (http://theunsolicitedopinion.com/maps/)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 02, 2014, 05:59:26 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Yes, a forecasting method.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method)
Quote
The Delphi method (/ˈdɛlfaɪ/ del-fy) is a structured communication technique, originally developed as a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on a panel of experts.

Also, please provide this "original" file.  Which you just happen to have on another computer ::) 
Also, could not find the term "human exclusion zone" in the file that I have found.  ALso, while scrolling through, saw I saw no maps.

Please provide that too.

As far as I can tell, you are just taking the anti-agenda 21 propaganda at face value without actually even looking into what the UN has said about sustainability.
LOL Wikipedia  NO!!! university in Australia will except Wikipedia as a referencing  source for any paper presented. Because its not a reliable source for factual information.
I have taken on those implementing UN Agenda 21 at council state & federal level. UN agenda 21 is not Lawful in Australia, so why is it being implemented with out the consent of its sovereign people ?
If you think the Delphi is not a means to obtain a predetermined out come via fraud & deception. Then next time they run one in your neck of the woods asking  for community input. Insist all information tended & gathered & minutes taken at the meeting by those calling & facilitating it. Be put on public record. The meeting wont go ahead, you can bet your last dollar on it. Privacy laws have never been about protecting an individuals  privacy.There to protect those implementing the agenda & their fraudulent deceptive conduct (crime) from the public. When they tell you their protecting your privacy. What they are really doing is providing them self  No!!! requirement to provide any proof that you & the public voted for the out come of the proposal adopted .
               
You obviously don't understand what the Delphi method is for.  I could look it up in one of my text books that I have laying around, but you would probably say that it is wrong too.  The Delphi Technique IS a forecasting method.  Businesses use it to try ti figure out what will happen in the future.  What you are describing IS NOT the Delphi Technique.  I couldn't care less if Wiki is not allowed in Universities.  We are on an internet forum.

Also, still waiting on you actually citing Agenda 21 AT ALL to support your claims. 

And also, next time you rant, try not to copy and paste someone else's work
http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html (http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 06:23:55 PM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Yes, a forecasting method.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method)
Quote
The Delphi method (/ˈdɛlfaɪ/ del-fy) is a structured communication technique, originally developed as a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on a panel of experts.

Also, please provide this "original" file.  Which you just happen to have on another computer ::) 
Also, could not find the term "human exclusion zone" in the file that I have found.  ALso, while scrolling through, saw I saw no maps.

Please provide that too.

As far as I can tell, you are just taking the anti-agenda 21 propaganda at face value without actually even looking into what the UN has said about sustainability.
LOL Wikipedia  NO!!! university in Australia will except Wikipedia as a referencing  source for any paper presented. Because its not a reliable source for factual information.
I have taken on those implementing UN Agenda 21 at council state & federal level. UN agenda 21 is not Lawful in Australia, so why is it being implemented with out the consent of its sovereign people ?
If you think the Delphi is not a means to obtain a predetermined out come via fraud & deception. Then next time they run one in your neck of the woods asking  for community input. Insist all information tended & gathered & minutes taken at the meeting by those calling & facilitating it. Be put on public record. The meeting wont go ahead, you can bet your last dollar on it. Privacy laws have never been about protecting an individuals  privacy.There to protect those implementing the agenda & their fraudulent deceptive conduct (crime) from the public. When they tell you their protecting your privacy. What they are really doing is providing them self  No!!! requirement to provide any proof that you & the public voted for the out come of the proposal adopted .
               
You obviously don't understand what the Delphi method is for.  I could look it up in one of my text books that I have laying around, but you would probably say that it is wrong too.  The Delphi Technique IS a forecasting method.  Businesses use it to try ti figure out what will happen in the future.  What you are describing IS NOT the Delphi Technique.  I couldn't care less if Wiki is not allowed in Universities.  We are on an internet forum.

Also, still waiting on you actually citing Agenda 21 AT ALL to support your claims. 

And also, next time you rant, try not to copy and paste someone else's work
http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html (http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html)
Didn't claim it to be my work. & I keep copies with a reference on file of who's work it is. After years of having to tolerate  you agenda scum inhabiting the same planet with your sly underhanded  stealth ways. Iv have found the Agenda  have a habit of removing  publications with opposing views. be it fore me to help them find them all.     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 02, 2014, 06:48:58 PM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud. Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 02, 2014, 07:20:50 PM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it? 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 03, 2014, 03:07:22 AM
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way.

Oh dear.  Our resident and leading conspiracy theorist Charles is off and running with yet another freight-train load of unsubstantiated scaremongering, fuelled—like most of his other whacky ideas—by sheer ignorance and/or avoidance of the actual facts.  But then paranoid people like Charles never let the facts get in the way of a good panic story do they?

"Agenda 21" is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to global development, and posits suggestions for sustainable ways local, state and national governments can combat poverty and pollution and conserve natural resources in the 21st century.  It was promulgated in 1992 and in the ensuing 22-year period, there has not been one iota of evidence supporting any of the ludicrous conspiracy theories manufactured in order to damn and misrepresent Agenda 21.

I suggest Charles reads Demented Agitprop: The Myth and Madness of Agenda 21 Conspiracy Theories HERE (http://bit.ly/1z9MTxJ) which will hopefully calm his unnecessarily agitated though processes.  Although I doubt it LOL.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 03, 2014, 04:47:52 AM
How's about you get back on topic? Has anyone read the NSF report from 1965? Or are you more interested in deciding who used to be Marilyn Monroe?

The evidence is there if you want to find it. Let me spell it out for you:

1. Documented multinational experimental climate modification programs since (at least) the 1940's.
2. A treaty agreed to in the 1970's outlawing weather warfare.

The crucial bit you are missing is how any of this relates to contrails.
And that they outlawed weather warfare, so there's even less of a chance they're using it against citizens.
Your not really that dumb are you ? Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%. Taking land ownership away from privet citizens & using deceptive environmental laws & overlays to creating thousands of square miles of human exclusion zones. The reality total one corporation corporate control & self written licences to plunder the worlds resources. A sly underhanded way of removing common law rights & anyone objecting to their corporate greedy activities.

Funny, I couldn't find that in there at all.  Could you please quote the document please?
http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf (http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf)
I obviously didn't read the entire 350 pages of it, but did search for the words "population reduction" which returned 0 results.  I then searched for the words "70 per cent" and it returned 4 results.

The first result mentioned about reduction of childhood diarrhea by 50 to 70 per cent in developing countries
The second and third mentioned that desertification affected 70 per cent of the world's drylands
The fourth said that 70 per cent of marine pollution came from land-based sources.

So please cite your source instead of just mentioning some made up statistics.
I also looked it up and found nothing that supports charles bloomington's claim. Makes sense for a wannabe fe;er to lie in a thread about chemtrails.
Care to state if you are or aren't  pro UN Agenda 21 & happy for its implantation world wide. First !!! then I'm happy to provide it.
Why? The 350 page pdf has been provided.  You apparently already know where it "talks of reducing the world population by 70%." Just simply post the page number.
Here suck on this while I find you the main course.         

The Delphi Technique
 
Removed text wall for ease of quoting.

What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting, have to do with Agenda 21.  And how does the Delphi Technique show that this UN Agenda talks about reducing the world population by 70%.

Answering the question is simple
1. Open the PDF of Agenda 21
2. Locate the text within Agenda 21 where it talks about population reduction
3. Highlight this text about population reduction
4. Press 'ctrl' +'C' on your keyboard at the same time
5. Open the reply message box in TFES website forums
6. Click within the reply message box to make sure the reply box will allow you to write text
7. Press 'ctrl' + 'V' on your keyboard at the same time
8. Click the 'Post' button underneath the reply box on TFES forum.

Simple.  So get too it.
I have the original UN agenda 21document that was realest.  On file on anther PC.  Its not much good me linking you to the redrafted sanitised version UN agenda 21 document.
My question to you is where are all the Americans going to live, as per the UN agenda 21 map of human exclusion zones ? This forum seems to be a jack pot for Agenda 21 sustainable elitist scum.  ;)
What does the Delphi Technique, a method of forecasting   Forecasting !!!! For fark sake. find your self a safe  rock to hide under. The the world has truly caught on & their not going to be that forgiving.       
Yes, a forecasting method.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method)
Quote
The Delphi method (/ˈdɛlfaɪ/ del-fy) is a structured communication technique, originally developed as a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on a panel of experts.

Also, please provide this "original" file.  Which you just happen to have on another computer ::) 
Also, could not find the term "human exclusion zone" in the file that I have found.  ALso, while scrolling through, saw I saw no maps.

Please provide that too.

As far as I can tell, you are just taking the anti-agenda 21 propaganda at face value without actually even looking into what the UN has said about sustainability.
LOL Wikipedia  NO!!! university in Australia will except Wikipedia as a referencing  source for any paper presented. Because its not a reliable source for factual information.
I have taken on those implementing UN Agenda 21 at council state & federal level. UN agenda 21 is not Lawful in Australia, so why is it being implemented with out the consent of its sovereign people ?
If you think the Delphi is not a means to obtain a predetermined out come via fraud & deception. Then next time they run one in your neck of the woods asking  for community input. Insist all information tended & gathered & minutes taken at the meeting by those calling & facilitating it. Be put on public record. The meeting wont go ahead, you can bet your last dollar on it. Privacy laws have never been about protecting an individuals  privacy.There to protect those implementing the agenda & their fraudulent deceptive conduct (crime) from the public. When they tell you their protecting your privacy. What they are really doing is providing them self  No!!! requirement to provide any proof that you & the public voted for the out come of the proposal adopted .
               
You obviously don't understand what the Delphi method is for.  I could look it up in one of my text books that I have laying around, but you would probably say that it is wrong too.  The Delphi Technique IS a forecasting method.  Businesses use it to try ti figure out what will happen in the future.  What you are describing IS NOT the Delphi Technique.  I couldn't care less if Wiki is not allowed in Universities.  We are on an internet forum.

Also, still waiting on you actually citing Agenda 21 AT ALL to support your claims. 

And also, next time you rant, try not to copy and paste someone else's work
http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html (http://www.vlrc.org/articles/110.html)
Didn't claim it to be my work. & I keep copies with a reference on file of who's work it is. After years of having to tolerate  you agenda scum inhabiting the same planet with your sly underhanded  stealth ways. Iv have found the Agenda  have a habit of removing  publications with opposing views. be it fore me to help them find them all.     

You really do have a reading comprehension issue.  I said that businesses use the Delphi Technique to forecast.  I also said what you are describing ISN'T the Delphi Technique. 

I have supported my claims with links to the definition of the Delphi Technique and also to the actual 350 page Agenda 21 document.

I am still waiting for you to support your claims that Agenda 21 wants to reduce the world population by 70%.
I am still waiting for you to support your claims that Agenda 21 sets up Human Exclusion Zones.
I am still waiting for you to support your claims that the document I have found is a watered down version of Agenda 21.
I am still waiting for you to support your claims that "Chemtrails" even exist at all.

So why don't you quit blathering, and start doing some actual footwork and support your claims.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 07:34:57 AM
& BJ1234, I'd like to feed you up on GM crops & fluoridated your water supply with toxic "sodium fluoride" that doesn't occur naturally in nature. Apparently poisoning people is good for their teeth?
Maybe I'm just a paranoid crazy, in thinking introducing  crops in to the public food supply, that produced tumours in the test rodents feed it for nine months. Including other test animals off spring testing sterile.is not such a good idea & why on earth would those results be over looked by any food safety agency or government body other then purposely over looked.
Maybe I'm just a paranoid crazy, in thinking. Its not a good idea to be allowing Aluminium smelters to get rid of their toxic sodium fluoride waste in to the populations water supply.
blathering on ? talking the truth.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 07:49:23 AM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 03, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
Why move onto other claims of yours when you haven't even supported your first claim yet?

Are you going to do that?

Are you going to support your claims about Agenda 21 before we move onto more of your unsubstantiated claims?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 03, 2014, 07:51:32 AM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Really?  So are you now saying there is no legitimate reason to seed clouds for rain or to spray pesticides on crops?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 08:37:00 AM
Its all one package deal. Total control  UN Agenda 21 psychopaths operate that way.

Oh dear.  Our resident and leading conspiracy theorist Charles is off and running with yet another freight-train load of unsubstantiated scaremongering, fuelled—like most of his other whacky ideas—by sheer ignorance and/or avoidance of the actual facts.  But then paranoid people like Charles never let the facts get in the way of a good panic story do they?

"Agenda 21" is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to global development, and posits suggestions for sustainable ways local, state and national governments can combat poverty and pollution and conserve natural resources in the 21st century.  It was promulgated in 1992 and in the ensuing 22-year period, there has not been one iota of evidence supporting any of the ludicrous conspiracy theories manufactured in order to damn and misrepresent Agenda 21.

I suggest Charles reads Demented Agitprop: The Myth and Madness of Agenda 21 Conspiracy Theories HERE (http://bit.ly/1z9MTxJ) which will hopefully calm his unnecessarily agitated though processes.  Although I doubt it LOL.
Read the  Commonwealth of Australia 1900uk constitution. Your indissoluble Constitution Geoff. Are you a loyal Australian to this country or are you Just as your  portraying your self to be, a traitor & UN agenda 21 treasonous scum bag . There's no voluntary about it. No referendum yes vote for its implementation. No Agenda 21 implementation to take place. Wilfully doing so is treason. ludicrous conspiracy theories manufactured in order to damn and misrepresent Agenda 21. NO REFERENDOM Geoff. I dont know how you can call it a conspiracy theory. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 08:52:50 AM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Really?  So are you now saying there is no legitimate reason to seed clouds for rain or to spray pesticides on crops?
So know your admitting they are seeding clouds? Make up your mind, their ether dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere or their not ? At what altitude are they seeding theses clouds & releasing theses chemical agents & what chemicals are they using. I thought you were adamant its all condensation.   
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 03, 2014, 09:04:37 AM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Really?  So are you now saying there is no legitimate reason to seed clouds for rain or to spray pesticides on crops?
So know your admitting they are seeding clouds? Make up your mind, their ether dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere or their not ? At what altitude are they seeding theses clouds & releasing theses chemical agents & what chemicals are they using. I thought you were adamant its all condensation.   

This is a false dilemma.  Planes can spray chemicals and create contrails.  Chemtrails are a description for a particular type of chemical spraying.  Its definition is as follows:

A trail created by an unknown chemical with an unknown purpose sprayed by no one knows who for whatever reason with zero evidence.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
Why move onto other claims of yours when you haven't even supported your first claim yet?

Are you going to do that?

Are you going to support your claims about Agenda 21 before we move onto more of your unsubstantiated claims?
mmmmmm let me see, We have Governments of sovereign countries &  public servants implementing laws by stealth, that are not lawful to implement in theses sovereign countries. We have the majority of the population of theses sovereign countries. Not giving consent to there implantation.
Why move onto other claims of yours when you haven't even supported your first claim yet?
     
Well will you be chowing down on GM food ? & drinking your toxic poison ?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 09:17:55 AM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Really?  So are you now saying there is no legitimate reason to seed clouds for rain or to spray pesticides on crops?
So know your admitting they are seeding clouds? Make up your mind, their ether dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere or their not ? At what altitude are they seeding theses clouds & releasing theses chemical agents & what chemicals are they using. I thought you were adamant its all condensation.   

This is a false dilemma.  Planes can spray chemicals and create contrails.  Chemtrails are a description for a particular type of chemical spraying.  Its definition is as follows:

A trail created by an unknown chemical with an unknown purpose sprayed by no one knows who for whatever reason with zero evidence.
I dont care what you want to call dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Its dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Seeding clouds, would that not be  modifying weather with a chemical agent. No consent from the population to be doing so. I'm afraid that constitutes  an act of terrorism as deemed by the 1978 UN treaty on weather modification. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 03, 2014, 10:26:01 AM
ITT: Farts are chemtrails

Thanks for the learning Charles Bloomington.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on July 03, 2014, 10:52:24 AM
I dont care what you want to call dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Its dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Seeding clouds, would that not be  modifying weather with a chemical agent. No consent from the population to be doing so. I'm afraid that constitutes  an act of terrorism as deemed by the 1978 UN treaty on weather modification.

Water vapor is a chemical agent that is created when hydrocarbons are burned.  Therefore, any airplane that burns hydrocarbons (aka, fuel) is seeding clouds, modifying the weather and engaging in terrorism.  Also, by your definition, anyone who heats their house with gas, oil or wood is creating water vapor (as well as poisonous CO2 gas) that gets into the atmosphere, seeds clouds, modifies the weather and is therefore engaging in an act of terrorism.  Don't forget cars, factories, trees, animals and just about anything else that generates water vapor.

There are plenty of natural and man made chemicals that get into the atmosphere and modify the weather.  Why bother with chemtrails?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 04:28:07 PM
I dont care what you want to call dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Its dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere. Seeding clouds, would that not be  modifying weather with a chemical agent. No consent from the population to be doing so. I'm afraid that constitutes  an act of terrorism as deemed by the 1978 UN treaty on weather modification.

Water vapor is a chemical agent that is created when hydrocarbons are burned.  Therefore, any airplane that burns hydrocarbons (aka, fuel) is seeding clouds, modifying the weather and engaging in terrorism.  Also, by your definition, anyone who heats their house with gas, oil or wood is creating water vapor (as well as poisonous CO2 gas) that gets into the atmosphere, seeds clouds, modifies the weather and is therefore engaging in an act of terrorism.  Don't forget cars, factories, trees, animals and just about anything else that generates water vapor.

There are plenty of natural and man made chemicals that get into the atmosphere and modify the weather.  Why bother with chemtrails?
When I boil my kettle to make a cupper & then turn it off. The small amount of steam released from it, doesn't spread out & form a large cloud that floats around my kitchen for days.
I can see your mentally challenged. All those activities your describing are not a wilful act to deliberately set out to make clouds & modify weather.     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 05:07:09 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.
You people dont seem to be at all concerned . Hummmmm what makes people behave in that manner is what really should be, being questioned. Care to explain your lack of concern?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 03, 2014, 05:25:35 PM
Other than nothing demonstrably harmful coming from them and the robust scientific explanation? I guess nothing really.

Just a technical point: you aren't questioning the nature of contrails; you have decided what they are already.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 03, 2014, 06:19:09 PM
Other than nothing demonstrably harmful coming from them and the robust scientific explanation? I guess nothing really.

Just a technical point: you aren't questioning the nature of contrails; you have decided what they are already.
Nothing demonstrably harmful coming from them [/color] Total contamination of the land & the water supply every living thing on this planet depends on for survival . A monopolised move of corporately controlling all water stores & resources. The ability to hold populations to ransom. The ability to contaminate the atmosphere & water supply with any harmful agent they wish to. Are you that pharken stupid ?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 03, 2014, 06:27:39 PM
Sounds harmful!

Now about the demonstrable part...
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on July 03, 2014, 06:45:34 PM
When I boil my kettle to make a cupper & then turn it off. The small amount of steam released from it, doesn't spread out & form a large cloud that floats around my kitchen for days.
I'm willing to bet that odors from some of your burnt meals have hung around for quite some time.
 
I can see your mentally challenged.
Perhaps, but at least I know the difference between "your" and "you're".

All those activities your describing are not a wilful act to deliberately set out to make clouds & modify weather.     
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: flatulence on July 03, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.

Oh really?

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on July 03, 2014, 07:09:31 PM
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.

Oh really?

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918)
Did you even read that article that you linked?  How is a carbon fiber smoke cloud on the sea relevant high altitude contrails?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: flatulence on July 03, 2014, 07:17:38 PM
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.

Oh really?

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918)
Did you even read that article that you linked?  How is a carbon fiber smoke cloud on the sea relevant high altitude contrails?

Different method. Same goal.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on July 03, 2014, 07:22:19 PM
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.

Oh really?

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918)
Did you even read that article that you linked?  How is a carbon fiber smoke cloud on the sea relevant high altitude contrails?

Different method. Same goal.
Modifying the weather helps ships avoid incoming missiles?  ???
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: flatulence on July 03, 2014, 07:24:40 PM
And you haven't provided any evidence that high altitude contrails deliberately created to modify weather either.  Plenty of speculation, but no evidence.

Oh really?

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918 (http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=81918)
Did you even read that article that you linked?  How is a carbon fiber smoke cloud on the sea relevant high altitude contrails?

Different method. Same goal.
Modifying the weather helps ships avoid incoming missiles?  ???

Do you expect a naval website to cite the real reason for the clouds if those reasons don't have the best intentions?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: markjo on July 03, 2014, 08:47:38 PM
Do you expect a naval website to cite the real reason for the clouds if those reasons don't have the best intentions?
Do you expect a naval website to post anything at all about projects that don't have the best intentions?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 03, 2014, 10:00:54 PM
Care to explain why theses trails left by planes are hanging around for extended time in the atmosphere & spreading out to form cloud.

http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/ (http://contrailscience.com/how-long-do-contrails-last/)

Quote
Care to tell us why there are companies advertising to supply planes for the purpose of seeding  clouds on the internet & why there are  companies advertising fit out of planes with dispersant tanks for atmosphere spraying. I thought it was not lawful to disperse chemical agents or compounds  in to the atmosphere. Even low altitude  crop dusting requires a licence with spraying to be contained to the area being sprayed. Spray drifting in to anthers owners air space or land & water ways being  punishable by Law.             

Selling a plane capable of dispersing chemicals is not the same as dispersing chemicals is it?
Gezz I dont know. Putting together a meth lab is not the same as cooking meth. But then you dont need a meth lab unless your cooking meth. Thats really a  tuff one to figure out. ::)
Really?  So are you now saying there is no legitimate reason to seed clouds for rain or to spray pesticides on crops?
So know your admitting they are seeding clouds? Make up your mind, their ether dispersing chemical agents in to the atmosphere or their not ? At what altitude are they seeding theses clouds & releasing theses chemical agents & what chemicals are they using. I thought you were adamant its all condensation.   
Do you not understand what seeding clouds is?  ALso, please go back and quote me where I said that planes didn't seed clouds.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: flatulence on July 04, 2014, 05:56:02 AM
Do you expect a naval website to cite the real reason for the clouds if those reasons don't have the best intentions?
Do you expect a naval website to post anything at all about projects that don't have the best intentions?

A missile defense system may not have good intentions for everyone involved but the intentions are good at least for the party deploying said system, unlike what they are really used for.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 04, 2014, 07:17:39 AM
Well will you be chowing down on GM food ? & drinking your toxic poison ?
Which has nothing to do with the existence of "chemtrails" so if you want to discuss those, please make another thread to do so.  Please don't muddle up the conversation with off topic subjects when you can't even back up your main arguments here.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 04, 2014, 07:27:54 AM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 04, 2014, 08:18:19 AM
Why present facts when you can rant about unsubstantiated claims and your only rebuttal to those that have different views is "of course they won't tell you what they are REALLY doing." ::)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: legion on July 04, 2014, 03:23:46 PM
Why present facts when you can rant about unsubstantiated claims and your only rebuttal to those that have different views is "of course they won't tell you what they are REALLY doing." ::)

What facts do you have? About anything...
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 04, 2014, 03:52:22 PM
Why present facts when you can rant about unsubstantiated claims and your only rebuttal to those that have different views is "of course they won't tell you what they are REALLY doing." ::)

What facts do you have? About anything...

Wat?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: robintex on July 04, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.
You people dont seem to be at all concerned . Hummmmm what makes people behave in that manner is what really should be, being questioned. Care to explain your lack of concern?

The skies over certain parts of Europe might have been littered with contrails during the final months of WWII.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 04, 2014, 06:02:43 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 04, 2014, 06:24:53 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         

Charles could you first explain how you determined that A) the models of the jets, B) Their altitudes, and C) the atmospheric conditions were all the same both times?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 04, 2014, 06:36:57 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186 (http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 04, 2014, 06:57:14 PM
The insidious, "Lets stop Climate Change" cabal.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 05, 2014, 12:30:50 AM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         

Charles could you first explain how you determined that A) the models of the jets, B) Their altitudes, and C) the atmospheric conditions were all the same both times?
Why would I bother trying to explain A B & C to you. Its kind of pointless dont you think ? When its blatantly obvious your a Shill & a supporter of  Agenda 21. But will humour you, Till my browser is hijacked again or anther root kit is installed to crash my PC. Both carries fly the same jets, both carries fly the same route & altitude.  The flights of the two carriers where only 15 min apart on that particular time of the day. flight path was clear blue sky. That was until the second jet left its trail.   
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 05, 2014, 07:25:36 AM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         

Charles could you first explain how you determined that A) the models of the jets, B) Their altitudes, and C) the atmospheric conditions were all the same both times?
Why would I bother trying to explain A B & C to you. Its kind of pointless dont you think ? When its blatantly obvious your a Shill & a supporter of  Agenda 21. But will humour you, Till my browser is hijacked again or anther root kit is installed to crash my PC. Both carries fly the same jets, both carries fly the same route & altitude.  The flights of the two carriers where only 15 min apart on that particular time of the day. flight path was clear blue sky. That was until the second jet left its trail.   
Because it is you with the outlandish claims.
As for your response here
1) A specific carrier needs to have all its planes the same now?  They can't have, for example, a 737 and a 777?
2) How do you know that they were at the same altitude and the same route?  I live near an air port, the flight patterns are adjusted very frequently.
3) Where I live, 15 minutes can mean a drop of temperature of 20 degrees F
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 05, 2014, 07:46:36 AM
Why present facts when you can rant about unsubstantiated claims and your only rebuttal to those that have different views is "of course they won't tell you what they are REALLY doing." ::)

What facts do you have? About anything...
How about the fact that UN Agenda 21 does not mention anything about reducing the population by 70%
How about the fact that UN Agenda 21 does not mention anything about setting up "Human Exclusion Zones"
How about the fact that Charles' view on what the Delphi Technique is NOT what the  Delphi Technique is.

All of which I have provided links to in order to support my stance.

And as of yet, the response has been "Well, that is not the "REAL" Agenda 21 Document, which I have on another computer" and "Universities in Australia don't accept Wiki as a source"

Now I have asked for evidence, you know the "REAL" Agenda 21 document, which has yet to materialize.

And you have the gall to ask where my facts are?  Why aren't you asking Charles for his facts?  You seem to be just accepting his view with no supporting evidence.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 05, 2014, 11:31:37 AM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         

Charles could you first explain how you determined that A) the models of the jets, B) Their altitudes, and C) the atmospheric conditions were all the same both times?
Why would I bother trying to explain A B & C to you. Its kind of pointless dont you think ? When its blatantly obvious your a Shill & a supporter of  Agenda 21. But will humour you, Till my browser is hijacked again or anther root kit is installed to crash my PC. Both carries fly the same jets, both carries fly the same route & altitude.  The flights of the two carriers where only 15 min apart on that particular time of the day. flight path was clear blue sky. That was until the second jet left its trail.   

And where did you get all this information? Sounds like you are doing nothing but making assumptions.

But let's say all these assumptions are correct. You then go on to assume that under the same conditions, contrails will always behave the same way. How do you know this is the case? Have you studied enough real contrails to know that they will always behave exactly the same way? For someone who claims to know so much you certainly assume a lot to be true charles.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 05, 2014, 04:07:39 PM
So anyone who questions why their seeing the sky's littered with theses trails on a daily bases, according to your doctrine. Is in your opinion wearing a tinfoil hat & someone of unsound mind. I would have to say  a rational human would be some what concerned at seeing their sky continually  littered with theses trails daily.


Our skies are NOT "littered" with contrails every day Charles.  Again, you're simply dreaming and/or making things up.  I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days, and I live near a RAAF base.  (For our overseas members, that's a government airfield.)  Charles is simply one of those people who make rash generalisations about stuff;  he happens to notice a couple of contrails one day, and then his paranoia sets in—the skies are "littered" with them LOL.

Further, his comparison with the steam from his kitchen kettle and contrails indicates that he has absolutely no idea how contrails are formed.  He seems to think that ice crystals are gonna form in his kitchen at room temperature, or clouds are gonna hover below his ceiling!  Better wear your raincoat next time you make a cuppa Charles.
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming . I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days  So your not denying you have been seeing trails . Why would anyone think there anything but condensation trails.The fact you will have two jets of the same model type. Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions .One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail. That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.         

Charles could you first explain how you determined that A) the models of the jets, B) Their altitudes, and C) the atmospheric conditions were all the same both times?
Why would I bother trying to explain A B & C to you. Its kind of pointless dont you think ? When its blatantly obvious your a Shill & a supporter of  Agenda 21. But will humour you, Till my browser is hijacked again or anther root kit is installed to crash my PC. Both carries fly the same jets, both carries fly the same route & altitude.  The flights of the two carriers where only 15 min apart on that particular time of the day. flight path was clear blue sky. That was until the second jet left its trail.   

And where did you get all this information? Sounds like you are doing nothing but making assumptions.

But let's say all these assumptions are correct. You then go on to assume that under the same conditions, contrails will always behave the same way. How do you know this is the case? Have you studied enough real contrails to know that they will always behave exactly the same way? For someone who claims to know so much you certainly assume a lot to be true charles.
I dont assume anything, but I do listen when someone of high integrity bravely speaks out. What purpose would Ted Gunderson possible have to lie.He die of arsenic poisoning. Arsenic poisoning!!! HOW does a man of his standing die from Arsenic poisoning ?   
(http://)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Goddamnit, Clown on July 05, 2014, 06:23:28 PM
Ted's a real character, I particularly enjoy his story about the thousands of ritual human sacrifices that go on in each major city each year. It's a bit disingenuous to describe him as "former FBI chief" though, he was an agent who went on to be the head of a few regional offices at the end of the 70s. Then he left and ranted about a variety of conspiracies for the rest of his life and eventually died of cancer.

Naturally, it's assumed that he was assassinated to prevent the truth from getting out, and yet this assassination could apparently wait until 2011 when he was an old man and had already been shouting the truth to anyone who'd listen for two or three decades, entirely unsilenced.

Also, how is it that he knows about the millions of unnatural fish deaths but the entire field of ichthyology does not?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 05, 2014, 07:14:30 PM
Ted's a real character, I particularly enjoy his story about the thousands of ritual human sacrifices that go on in each major city each year. It's a bit disingenuous to describe him as "former FBI chief" though, he was an agent who went on to be the head of a few regional offices at the end of the 70s. Then he left and ranted about a variety of conspiracies for the rest of his life and eventually died of cancer.

Naturally, it's assumed that he was assassinated to prevent the truth from getting out, and yet this assassination could apparently wait until 2011 when he was an old man and had already been shouting the truth to anyone who'd listen for two or three decades, entirely unsilenced.

Also, how is it that he knows about the millions of unnatural fish deaths but the entire field of ichthyology does not?
Where were your ichthyology crew when it came to what dispersant should be used for the BP gulf cost oil spill.
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/12/chemical-dispersant-made-bps-gulf-oilspill-52-times-more-toxic (http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/12/chemical-dispersant-made-bps-gulf-oilspill-52-times-more-toxic)
 And seriously your response to chem trails & a patent exclusively for the making of  aerosols for atmospheric spraying. The very thing your claiming hasn't & isn't happening.  Is to demean Ted Gunderson & portray him as a nobody crack pot. Mate!!!!! your  pathetic !!!       
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on July 05, 2014, 07:36:28 PM
Since when does a patent for something mean that it is actually being used.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 05, 2014, 08:00:31 PM
Since when does a patent for something mean that it is actually being used.
Why file a patent for something you dont intend to use. Why file a patent for something that is outlawed international to use & would require international approval to be used. Which not all sovereign countries would approve of. Rendering the patten pointless. Its pretty damning evidence. Beyond reasonable doubt is not needed for a civil law suit, Only evidence of probability. That is damming evidence of probability.             
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 05, 2014, 08:53:51 PM
I & others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming.
Can you please post a link to a video that you've personally filmed of contrails (or what you claim are "chemtrails") Charles?

"I haven't seen any contrails in the sky for days".
Quote
So your [sic] not denying you have been seeing trails. Why would anyone think there [sic] anything but condensation trails.
Of course I see a couple of contrails every week—providing the atmospheric conditions and the plane's flight path are conducive to their formation.  And you're right about one thing Charles:  why would any rational person think that contrails were anything but what we know them to be?

Quote
The fact you will have two jets of the same model type.  Flying at the same altitude, same atmospheric conditions. One producing a massive trail that spreads out & forms a cloud & the other jet is not producing any trail.
Once again, can you please post a link to a  video of this actually happening Charles?  As it stands, and without any visual evidence, this scenario is nothing more than something you've made up on the spur of the moment.

Quote
That requires a better  explanation then its just condensation.  Please explain Geoff Agenda.
No it doesn't Charles.  Contrails are more than well explained  thusly:

A contrail, also known as a condensation trail, is a cirrus-like trail of condensed water vapour.  Contrails are produced at high altitudes where extremely cold temperatures freeze water droplets in a matter of seconds before they can evaporate.

Contrails form through the injection of water vapor into the atmosphere by exhaust fumes from a jet engine.  If the surrounding air is cold enough, a state of saturation is attained and ice crystals develop, producing a contrail.

If the air in which the contrail develops has a low relative humidity, the cloud particles will quickly evaporate. Even in the presence of higher relative humidities, upper-level winds can spread a contrail apart to produce a horizontal sheet-like cloud. For a contrail to remain intact for a long period of time, the air must have a high relative humidity in the presence of relatively light winds.   

—And if you discount this scientific explanation, then please confer with an aeronautical engineer.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 05, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186 (http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186)

To save anybody wasting their time reading through this patent Charles has cited, it's a 25-year-old patent for a  procedure involving spraying thorium dioxide and other metal oxides into the upper atmosphere for the purpose of reducing global warming.

But there's a lot more to patents than just submitting an application.  Most patented devices or procedures never see the light of day, and the one quoted by Charles falls into this category. In fact, as it was granted 25 years ago, it's now null and void.

A patent does NOT give a right to make or use or sell an invention. Rather, a patent provides the legal right to exclude others from manufacturing, using, selling, or importing the patented invention or methodology for the term of the patent, which is 20 years from the date of the granting of the patent.  A patent—being an exclusionary right—does not necessarily give the owner of the patent rights to exploit, manufacture, on-sell, or utilise the subject of the patent.

It's obvious that poor old Charles thinks the granting of a patent automatically implies that something has been "approved" by the government or that it's actually been manufactured and put into use, or can be put into use.  This patent he's using as a debating point to somehow reinforce the rubbish he's been posting about alleged "chemtrails" is therefore worthless as any sort of supporting evidence.

—Sorry Charles.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 06, 2014, 05:04:46 PM
http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186 (http://www.google.com/patents/US5003186)

To save anybody wasting their time reading through this patent Charles has cited, it's a 25-year-old patent for a  procedure involving spraying thorium dioxide and other metal oxides into the upper atmosphere for the purpose of reducing global warming.

But there's a lot more to patents than just submitting an application.  Most patented devices or procedures never see the light of day, and the one quoted by Charles falls into this category. In fact, as it was granted 25 years ago, it's now null and void.

A patent does NOT give a right to make or use or sell an invention. Rather, a patent provides the legal right to exclude others from manufacturing, using, selling, or importing the patented invention or methodology for the term of the patent, which is 20 years from the date of the granting of the patent.  A patent—being an exclusionary right—does not necessarily give the owner of the patent rights to exploit, manufacture, on-sell, or utilise the subject of the patent.

It's obvious that poor old Charles thinks the granting of a patent automatically implies that something has been "approved" by the government or that it's actually been manufactured and put into use, or can be put into use.  This patent he's using as a debating point to somehow reinforce the rubbish he's been posting about alleged "chemtrails" is therefore worthless as any sort of supporting evidence.

—Sorry Charles.
Talks for Implementing UN Agenda 21 & addressing gobble warming & climate change. Started taking place approximately around  1987. It would be very hard for anyone to ignore there seems to be a strong connection. That is of course unless your doing your utmost  to insure  others are distracted  from ever questioning, are the two connected.     
http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/ (http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/)
25 Years Leading the Fight for American
Property Right and Sovereignty Your point of the year the patten was lodged & obtained is?Geoff Agenda     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 06, 2014, 09:35:02 PM
Please cite the UN Agenda 21 document where it says it aims to reduce the population by 70% and where it sets up "human exclusion zones" and you have claimed.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 01:28:05 AM
Please cite the UN Agenda 21 document where it says it aims to reduce the population by 70% and where it sets up "human exclusion zones" and you have claimed.
You wont find a copy of it on the internet .I have all ready told you that , they have been removed & I'm sure as hell not going to put a copy I have at risk of being trashed.
However this you tube clip gives a good factual summery.
(http://)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 07, 2014, 02:02:15 AM

Talks for Implementing UN Agenda 21 & addressing gobble [sic] warming & climate change. Started taking place approximately around  1987. It would be very hard for anyone to ignore there seems to be a strong connection. That is of course unless your [sic] doing your utmost  to insure  others are distracted  from ever questioning, are the two connected.   
http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/ (http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/)
Your point of the year the patten [sic] was lodged & obtained is? Geoff Agenda   

It's not unexpected to me that Charles has posted a link to a US group of loonies who masquerade under the impressive but misleading title of "The American Policy Center" or APC.  Its president is a guy by the name of Tom DeWeese, a noted, lifelong US conspiracy theorist.

For an in-depth, and amusingly disparaging look at DeWeese and his absurd APC organisation, check out this site:  Wingnut Watch: Tom DeWeese and the American Policy Center (http://bit.ly/1jYiNUh).

I mentioned the year the patent was granted Charles simply to prove that its methodology of climate modification had never even been considered as a technically viable, working solution since that time, and that it had expired anyway—relegated to the dustbin of technological absurdities.

PS:  I must speak to my partner about "gobble warming".  She's very warm of heart, but boy, those lips of hers can be like ice on these winter mornings LOL.




Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: mathsman on July 07, 2014, 02:14:53 AM
PS:  I must speak to my partner about "gobble warming".  She's very warm of heart, but boy, those lips of hers can be like ice on these winter mornings LOL.

A nice cup of tea beforehand should solve that problem.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 02:54:07 AM

Talks for Implementing UN Agenda 21 & addressing gobble [sic] warming & climate change. Started taking place approximately around  1987. It would be very hard for anyone to ignore there seems to be a strong connection. That is of course unless your [sic] doing your utmost  to insure  others are distracted  from ever questioning, are the two connected.   
http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/ (http://americanpolicy.org/agenda21/)
Your point of the year the patten [sic] was lodged & obtained is? Geoff Agenda   

It's not unexpected to me that Charles has posted a link to a US group of loonies who masquerade under the impressive but misleading title of "The American Policy Center" or APC.  Its president is a guy by the name of Tom DeWeese, a noted, lifelong US conspiracy theorist.

For an in-depth, and amusingly disparaging look at DeWeese and his absurd APC organisation, check out this site:  Wingnut Watch: Tom DeWeese and the American Policy Center (http://bit.ly/1jYiNUh).

I mentioned the year the patent was granted Charles simply to prove that its methodology of climate modification had never even been considered as a technically viable, working solution since that time, and that it had expired anyway—relegated to the dustbin of technological absurdities.

PS:  I must speak to my partner about "gobble warming".  She's very warm of heart, but boy, those lips of hers can be like ice on these winter mornings LOL.
It seems anyone who questions anything, is a nut job conspiracy theorist according to you Geoff. I can only go on my own experiences dealing with UN agenda 21.A council CEO & town planer resining over fraudulent township & district maps. A cover up by a now no longer state member of parliament. 7 different unlawful plaining overlays on my property that never existed in 1999 .  Lets talk about common law. Why has it been removed from our courts & replaced by commerce  Law. When the laws of the land in Australia is common law. If you Google the shire I live in & UN Agenda 21.You get the environmental policy's of the shire. Ask them about it & those scum bags will lie & tell you they dont know what UN agenda 21 is. So ether talk truth Geoff or phark off ya clown . 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 07, 2014, 03:48:21 AM
It seems anyone who questions anything, is a nut job conspiracy theorist according to you Geoff. I can only go on my own experiences dealing with UN agenda 21.
Uh... I'm more inclined to believe that you're the one sucking up the conspiracy theories like a defective intellectual sponge Charles.  Earlier on, you posted "Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%".

And we're still waiting for you to substantiate this claim.  So, a direct link please.

You also claimed earlier that "I and others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming".  I then—quite reasonably— asked you to post a link to one of these videos of yours, and you've not yet done so.  Why is that?  Were you maybe misrepresenting the truth a little Charles?

Anyway, I'll await your video link.

Quote
7 different unlawful plaining [sic] overlays on my property that never existed in 1999. So ether talk truth Geoff or phark off ya clown.
As it's obviously affected you at a personal level Charles, could you please list those seven specific amended overlays?

(You should also know that I've reported your repeated personal insults and foul language to the moderators.)

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 04:56:38 AM
It seems anyone who questions anything, is a nut job conspiracy theorist according to you Geoff. I can only go on my own experiences dealing with UN agenda 21.
Uh... I'm more inclined to believe that you're the one sucking up the conspiracy theories like a defective intellectual sponge Charles.  Earlier on, you posted "Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%".

And we're still waiting for you to substantiate this claim.  So, a direct link please.

You also claimed earlier that "I and others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming".  I then—quite reasonably— asked you to post a link to one of these videos of yours, and you've not yet done so.  Why is that?  Were you maybe misrepresenting the truth a little Charles?

Anyway, I'll await your video link.

Quote
7 different unlawful plaining [sic] overlays on my property that never existed in 1999. So ether talk truth Geoff or phark off ya clown.
As it's obviously affected you at a personal level Charles, could you please list those seven specific amended overlays?

(You should also know that I've reported your repeated personal insults and foul language to the moderators.)
Good for you & while your at it read up on the 1914 Commonwealth of Australia Crimes act still enforce. 
 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 06:11:37 AM
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca191482/s24aa.html (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca191482/s24aa.html)
(1)  A person shall not:
(a)  do any act or thing with intent:
(i)  to overthrow the Constitution of the Commonwealth by revolution or sabotage;

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 07, 2014, 07:42:48 AM
Please cite the UN Agenda 21 document where it says it aims to reduce the population by 70% and where it sets up "human exclusion zones" and you have claimed.
You wont find a copy of it on the internet .I have all ready told you that , they have been removed & I'm sure as hell not going to put a copy I have at risk of being trashed.
Oh yes, we must take your word for it because, you know, yeah...
So please substantiate your claims.  You can post all the youtube videos and internet rants you want, but unless you can actually produce something to substantiate what is being said, it will not hold any weight with me.  I have looked at the source, you know the 350 page UN document, and it mentions no such things.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 07, 2014, 10:17:39 AM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 07, 2014, 11:19:10 AM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
For curiosity's sake: how do you know about a secret document?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 07, 2014, 01:10:59 PM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
For curiosity's sake: how do you know about a secret document?
Are you trying to quibble with me for no reason or did you fail to read Charles' s post?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on July 07, 2014, 02:06:17 PM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
For curiosity's sake: how do you know about a secret document?
Are you trying to quibble with me for no reason or did you fail to read Charles' s post?
Bit of both really.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 06:21:26 PM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
It wasn't secret. It was on the internet, I down loaded it about 14 years ago. When I was researching the then newly introduced plaining schemes & rezoning of area maps . At the time I didn't give it much of a thought. I was more interested in how it was possible for my state guaranteed fee simple land titles, to be now encroached upon with restrictive overlays & no compensation paid in just terms. Agenda 21 has nothing to do with the environment as its proclaimed. Its about removing the right of the common man to be self sufficient or own property.Non limited tax burdens on everything!!!. Agenda 21implamataion completion,insures a guaranteed complete dependence on high profit based corporate service providers.
Complete Monopolization of land, sea, air & all other resources.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 07, 2014, 06:43:21 PM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
It wasn't secret. It was on the internet, I down loaded it about 14 years ago. When I was researching the then newly introduced plaining schemes & rezoning of area maps . At the time I didn't give it much of a thought. I was more interested in how it was possible for my state guaranteed fee simple land titles, to be now encroached upon with restrictive overlays & no compensation paid in just terms. Agenda 21 has nothing to do with the environment as its proclaimed. Its about removing the right of the common man to be self sufficient or own property.Non limited tax burdens on everything!!!. Agenda 21implamataion completion,insures a guaranteed complete dependence on high profit based corporate service providers.
Complete Monopolization of land, sea, air & all other resources.

So how does this version of the document, which apparently was not adopted, and for which you have no evidence, have any relevance to whether unknown chemicals are dumped on people on a regular basis? Sounds like an extremely tenuous link to me.

And if the government was going to carry this out in secret, why would they do it in the middle of the day in plain sight? Why not just do it at night and when it's cloudy? Another example of the conspiracy theorist's paradox - a shadowy organization has nearly unlimited resouces and ability to deceive, but they are also so incompent that Joe Six-pack can spot them in action from his back yard. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 07:50:25 PM
Just for curiosity's sake, how did you come to be in possession of this secret unaltered UN document?
It wasn't secret. It was on the internet, I down loaded it about 14 years ago. When I was researching the then newly introduced plaining schemes & rezoning of area maps . At the time I didn't give it much of a thought. I was more interested in how it was possible for my state guaranteed fee simple land titles, to be now encroached upon with restrictive overlays & no compensation paid in just terms. Agenda 21 has nothing to do with the environment as its proclaimed. Its about removing the right of the common man to be self sufficient or own property.Non limited tax burdens on everything!!!. Agenda 21implamataion completion,insures a guaranteed complete dependence on high profit based corporate service providers.
Complete Monopolization of land, sea, air & all other resources.

So how does this version of the document, which apparently was not adopted, and for which you have no evidence, have any relevance to whether unknown chemicals are dumped on people on a regular basis? Sounds like an extremely tenuous link to me.

And if the government was going to carry this out in secret, why would they do it in the middle of the day in plain sight? Why not just do it at night and when it's cloudy? Another example of the conspiracy theorist's paradox - a shadowy organization has nearly unlimited resouces and ability to deceive, but they are also so incompent that Joe Six-pack can spot them in action from his back yard. Ridiculous.
They do carry it out at night now. I say due to the multitude of phone calls the EPA was receiving. Me being one of them. No denying its taking place from the state EPA .Only a statement its not their legislated state Jurisdiction & they have no authority . Aviation is federal Jurisdiction. I wouldn't call them incompetent. More an arrogance of we make the laws we are above the law & can do as we please.                       
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 07, 2014, 08:06:39 PM
But why would they ever have done during the day in the first place? It makes no sense at all. Either they can do it anytime, in which case they would only do it at night, or it must do it in they day, which would contradict you statement that they have changed to doing it at night. Not to mention that other people still claim to see them in the day, which means either you, they, or both are wrong.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 08:53:53 PM
But why would they ever have done during the day in the first place? It makes no sense at all. Either they can do it anytime, in which case they would only do it at night, or it must do it in they day, which would contradict you statement that they have changed to doing it at night. Not to mention that other people still claim to see them in the day, which means either you, they, or both are wrong.
Your asking me why. Ask them, see the bullshit response you get back & if that dont work in curtailing your inquisitiveness to ask questions, then comes their threats & intimidation . Its obviously cheaper having commercial flights conduct aerosol spraying. routes to locations,flight paths available & frequency of flights. . I thought the old bloke that told me of chem trails & synthetic forming clouds, had lost his marbles. I just smiled, humoured him at the time by listening to what he had to say  & hoped in the back of my mind the old bugger  would get some help with his delusion. It wasn't till a month later on a hot still summers day when  I was out cutting hay. Stopped for a breather, cracked a longneck from me  esky & rolled a smoke. I noticed a jet leaving a mighty big trial behind it that didn't dissipate. With in half an hour that trail had spread out & formed three large white fluffy clouds. That's when the penny dropped. The old bugger wasn't crazy at all & That was the start of me consciously to take note in noticing jets trials & abnormal formations of clouds taking place.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 07, 2014, 09:28:13 PM
Uh, cool story bro. So do they only do it at night now, or what?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 07, 2014, 09:44:35 PM
Wow, awesome.  Well, I have a secret document from the UN that says that they put out this secret Agenda 21 document to fool people into thinking that contrails were really chemtrails.  Of course I have it saved on another computer and won't produce it for you to peruse.  You know, the men in suits would come and confiscate my family and create bogus weapon charges against me.  I of course downloaded it 16 years ago back when I was really questioning why people thought chemtrails existed.

So basically, I am getting at that your story is just as credible as the one I just typed up.  Unless of course you can provide evidence for yours.  Such as providing the document.  WHich you obviously can't because it does not exist.  Prove to me that I am wrong.  Provide the document.  Cite the areas that specifically mention reducing the population and setting up human exclusion zones. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 10:21:18 PM
Uh, cool story bro. So do they only do it at night now, or what?
No they still do some of it during the day. But no way near as obverse as it was getting.  Mostly early mornings & their not using commercial jets as often. The morning jet flight paths are not  from or to any domestic air port.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 07, 2014, 10:44:28 PM
Uh, cool story bro. So do they only do it at night now, or what?
No they still do some of it during the day. But no way near as obverse as it was getting.  Mostly early mornings & their not using commercial jets as often. The morning jet flight paths are not  from or to any domestic air port.

Should I even bother to ask how you know what jets are being used, their actual flight path and the "correct" flight path?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 10:50:18 PM
Wow, awesome.  Well, I have a secret document from the UN that says that they put out this secret Agenda 21 document to fool people into thinking that contrails were really chemtrails.  Of course I have it saved on another computer and won't produce it for you to peruse.  You know, the men in suits would come and confiscate my family and create bogus weapon charges against me.  I of course downloaded it 16 years ago back when I was really questioning why people thought chemtrails existed.

So basically, I am getting at that your story is just as credible as the one I just typed up.  Unless of course you can provide evidence for yours.  Such as providing the document.  WHich you obviously can't because it does not exist.  Prove to me that I am wrong.  Provide the document.  Cite the areas that specifically mention reducing the population and setting up human exclusion zones.
Basically you can believe who or what ever you like. I dont need your endorsement & you dont need mine. You see that's what make Agenda elitist  scum, morally different to me the  common man. I dont need to control every aspect of anther persons life or property. I dont need to order you how to think. What I do demand though in society is honesty integrity & decency towards other human beings.Which is a simplistic  rule to follow that your Agenda mob cant seem to fathom.         
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 07, 2014, 11:05:59 PM
Unconstitutional you bet it is. That's why its being introduced by stealth means & its lackeys who are profiting by betraying their countries sovereignty & their fellow country men & women are doing their utmost to hide that FACT.       
 http://thatmrgguy.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/agenda-21-iclei-is-unconstitutional-is-it-in-your-town/ (http://thatmrgguy.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/agenda-21-iclei-is-unconstitutional-is-it-in-your-town/)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 08, 2014, 03:58:01 AM
Anther read for ya BJ1234 you treasonous UN Agenda 21 blow hard.
http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/?p=1282 (http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/?p=1282)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 08, 2014, 05:04:23 AM
Once again, cite UN Agenda 21 where it says to "reduce population by 70%" and where it sets up "human exclusion zones".  You can post internet rants claiming such all you want, but if the 350 page document does not mention anything of the sort, they are just unsubstantiated claims.

I have already done my leg work in backing up my claim that you are wrong about what Agenda 21 is.  I linked to the actual document, searched it, and found nothing of the sort in it.  I have challenged you to prove me wrong and that Agenda 21 actually says what you claim.  Your only response is that I don't have the "real, unaltered" document.  Something you say that you have, but won't share.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 08, 2014, 07:06:10 AM
It seems anyone who questions anything, is a nut job conspiracy theorist according to you Geoff. I can only go on my own experiences dealing with UN agenda 21.
Uh... I'm more inclined to believe that you're the one sucking up the conspiracy theories like a defective intellectual sponge Charles.  Earlier on, you posted "Read UN agenda 21, their own literature talks of reducing the world population by 70%".

And we're still waiting for you to substantiate this claim.  So, a direct link please.

You also claimed earlier that "I and others  have filmed  plenty of documenting footage of jets trails & clouds forming".  I then—quite reasonably— asked you to post a link to one of these videos of yours, and you've not yet done so.  Why is that?  Were you maybe misrepresenting the truth a little Charles?

Anyway, I'll await your video link.

Quote
7 different unlawful plaining [sic] overlays on my property that never existed in 1999. So ether talk truth Geoff or phark off ya clown.
As it's obviously affected you at a personal level Charles, could you please list those seven specific amended overlays?

(You should also know that I've reported your repeated personal insults and foul language to the moderators.)
Good for you & while your at it read up on the 1914 Commonwealth of Australia Crimes act still enforce. 
 

Meanwhile, I'm still awaiting a direct citation to your 70% depopulation claim from Agenda 21 Charles.  Where is it?
I'm also awaiting your link to the video you and your friends made showing alleged chemtrails.  Where is it?

Why are you not addressing these two reasonable requests of mine?  Is it an admission that you possess neither?

So... links please.


Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 08, 2014, 08:00:03 AM
They do carry it out at night now.
Nope.  You're just making this up Charles.  Do you seriously expect us to believe that not one member of the public living near airports would notice hundreds of planes taking off and landing at night?  You're dreaming I'm afraid.

Quote
I say due to the multitude of phone calls the EPA was receiving.
Citation please confirming this "multitude" of calls to the EPA.  Or is this just another unfounded dream of yours?

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 08, 2014, 09:16:05 PM
Why are you promoting the implementation  of UN Agenda 21 for the  Commonwealth Australia & its territories.? That which is clearly defined as being an act of treachery & sabotage under the Commonwealth of Australia crimes Act.
Is it an admission that you possess neitherNO .I guess the fish just aren't biting. Oh & look it up.Its not a crime to possess or not possess ether. The same cant be said for your Agenda Geoff.
I cant fathom for the likes of me, why you would start a chem trail thread Geoff. If not an attempt  to engage in mixed views on the subject?.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 09, 2014, 12:45:46 AM
Why are you promoting the implementation of UN Agenda 21 for the Commonwealth Australia & its territories? That which is clearly defined as being an act of treachery & sabotage under the Commonwealth of Australia crimes Act.
 
Is it an admission that you possess neither NO. I guess the fish just aren't biting.  Oh & look it up.Its not a crime to possess or not possess ether. The same cant be said for your agenda Geoff.
 
I cant fathom for the likes of me, why you would start a chem trail thread Geoff. If not an attempt  to engage in mixed views on the subject?.

You really need to stop rambling on about this Agenda 21 stuff Charles; you're starting to sound awfully like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

I also note you failed to address either of the points I raised:

Quote
Do you seriously expect us to believe that not one member of the public living near airports would notice hundreds of planes taking off and landing at night?


And;  citation please confirming this "multitude" of calls to the EPA.

And you do realise (or maybe you don't?) that the Agenda 21 has nothing at all to do with your allegations of "chemtrails" being used in Australia—were they even to exist in reality.  You've hijacked this thread simply to rant on about what's obviously your favourite whipping boy of the moment; Agenda 21. 

Also, you obviously know very little about Australian constitutional law (acts of "treachery" and "sabotage" LOL)—like you know very little about scientific principles and practices.  You're really overextending your intellectual limits on these forums Charles.  You need to take a deep breath and acknowledge that you're not nearly smart enough to play with the grownups just yet.  Sorry.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: guv on July 09, 2014, 02:23:09 AM
Big crop dusters around your place a Charlie boy.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 09, 2014, 05:45:10 AM
Why are you promoting the implementation of UN Agenda 21 for the Commonwealth Australia & its territories? That which is clearly defined as being an act of treachery & sabotage under the Commonwealth of Australia crimes Act.
 
Is it an admission that you possess neither NO. I guess the fish just aren't biting.  Oh & look it up.Its not a crime to possess or not possess ether. The same cant be said for your agenda Geoff.
 
I cant fathom for the likes of me, why you would start a chem trail thread Geoff. If not an attempt  to engage in mixed views on the subject?.

You really need to stop rambling on about this Agenda 21 stuff Charles; you're starting to sound awfully like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

I also note you failed to address either of the points I raised:

Quote
Do you seriously expect us to believe that not one member of the public living near airports would notice hundreds of planes taking off and landing at night?


And;  citation please confirming this "multitude" of calls to the EPA.

And you do realise (or maybe you don't?) that the Agenda 21 has nothing at all to do with your allegations of "chemtrails" being used in Australia—were they even to exist in reality.  You've hijacked this thread simply to rant on about what's obviously your favourite whipping boy of the moment; Agenda 21. 

Also, you obviously know very little about Australian constitutional law (acts of "treachery" and "sabotage" LOL)—like you know very little about scientific principles and practices.  You're really overextending your intellectual limits on these forums Charles.  You need to take a deep breath and acknowledge that you're not nearly smart enough to play with the grownups just yet.  Sorry.
I know the stinking stench of a scum bag treasonous treacherous dog a mile away & I know the Commonwealth of Australia crime acts & their interpretation acts like the back of my hand. Complements of a previous occupation. ;)  Commonwealth of Australia constitution  Indissoluble Geoff. Section 109. When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid. Indissoluble means just that Indissoluble.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 09, 2014, 05:49:31 AM
Why are you promoting the implementation of UN Agenda 21 for the Commonwealth Australia & its territories? That which is clearly defined as being an act of treachery & sabotage under the Commonwealth of Australia crimes Act.
 
Is it an admission that you possess neither NO. I guess the fish just aren't biting.  Oh & look it up.Its not a crime to possess or not possess ether. The same cant be said for your agenda Geoff.
 
I cant fathom for the likes of me, why you would start a chem trail thread Geoff. If not an attempt  to engage in mixed views on the subject?.

You really need to stop rambling on about this Agenda 21 stuff Charles; you're starting to sound awfully like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

I also note you failed to address either of the points I raised:

Quote
Do you seriously expect us to believe that not one member of the public living near airports would notice hundreds of planes taking off and landing at night?


And;  citation please confirming this "multitude" of calls to the EPA.

And you do realise (or maybe you don't?) that the Agenda 21 has nothing at all to do with your allegations of "chemtrails" being used in Australia—were they even to exist in reality.  You've hijacked this thread simply to rant on about what's obviously your favourite whipping boy of the moment; Agenda 21. 

Also, you obviously know very little about Australian constitutional law (acts of "treachery" and "sabotage" LOL)—like you know very little about scientific principles and practices.  You're really overextending your intellectual limits on these forums Charles.  You need to take a deep breath and acknowledge that you're not nearly smart enough to play with the grownups just yet.  Sorry.
I know the stinking stench of a scum bag treasonous treacherous dog a mile away & I know the Commonwealth of Australia crime acts & their interpretation acts like the back of my hand. Complements of a previous occupation. ;)  Commonwealth of Australia constitution  Indissoluble Geoff. Section 109. When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid. Indissoluble means just that Indissoluble.
Looks like you need to study the back of your hand better.  You can't even back up your claims about anything you say.  You have not yet shown us, in Agenda 21, where it states its intent is to reduce the population by 70% or where it sets up "human exclusion zones".  All you have done so far is link us to other websites and videos that you are just parroting. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 09, 2014, 04:54:55 PM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.           
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 09, 2014, 05:18:19 PM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.         
Until you can substantiate your claims, with any sort of citation at all, it will hold no sway over me.  It is obvious that you haven't looked into the subject other than conspiracy websites that confirm your views.  You won't even look into the original document and see what it actually says.

Earlier in this thread you told me that wiki links were not allowed at Australian universities.  Would they be more acceptable than no sources at all?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 09, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.         
Until you can substantiate your claims, with any sort of citation at all, it will hold no sway over me.  It is obvious that you haven't looked into the subject other than conspiracy websites that confirm your views.  You won't even look into the original document and see what it actually says.

Earlier in this thread you told me that wiki links were not allowed at Australian universities.  Would they be more acceptable than no sources at all?
Spoken like a true treasonous traitorous dog. I dont need to post what information I hold. The present churched up UN Agenda 21 document displayed on the internet at present.Only needs the person reading it to apply a little  maths, to come up with the same outcome & conclusion.     
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 10, 2014, 03:55:22 AM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.         
Until you can substantiate your claims, with any sort of citation at all, it will hold no sway over me.  It is obvious that you haven't looked into the subject other than conspiracy websites that confirm your views.  You won't even look into the original document and see what it actually says.

Earlier in this thread you told me that wiki links were not allowed at Australian universities.  Would they be more acceptable than no sources at all?
Spoken like a true treasonous traitorous dog. I dont need to post what information I hold.
Well, yes you do.  If you don't, you have an unsubstantiated claim.
Quote
The present churched up UN Agenda 21 document displayed on the internet at present.
Please provide evidence of your claim that the document available on the internet is not the original.
Quote
Only needs the person reading it to apply a little  maths, to come up with the same outcome & conclusion.   
Oh really?  Show me the maths.  And why you they should be applied and why you are right in applying them.

See Charles, you do need to support your claims.  I have supported mine, you have not supported yours.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 10, 2014, 11:14:16 PM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.         
Until you can substantiate your claims, with any sort of citation at all, it will hold no sway over me.  It is obvious that you haven't looked into the subject other than conspiracy websites that confirm your views.  You won't even look into the original document and see what it actually says.

Earlier in this thread you told me that wiki links were not allowed at Australian universities.  Would they be more acceptable than no sources at all?
Spoken like a true treasonous traitorous dog. I dont need to post what information I hold.
Well, yes you do.  If you don't, you have an unsubstantiated claim.
Quote
The present churched up UN Agenda 21 document displayed on the internet at present.
Please provide evidence of your claim that the document available on the internet is not the original.
Quote
Only needs the person reading it to apply a little  maths, to come up with the same outcome & conclusion.   
Oh really?  Show me the maths.  And why you they should be applied and why you are right in applying them.

See Charles, you do need to support your claims.  I have supported mine, you have not supported yours.
you do need to support your claims.  I have supported mine, you have not supported yours.
Yes you have indeed . You have admitted to supporting implementation of a foreign entities agenda by stealth means. Which is sabotaging your  countries sovereignty & the sovereignty of its people. Which makes you admitting to being a treasonous traitorous dog. That I do not wish to engage in correspondence with any more.   
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 11, 2014, 03:52:46 AM
Yes you have indeed . You have admitted to supporting implementation of a foreign entities agenda by stealth means. Which is sabotaging your  countries sovereignty & the sovereignty of its people. Which makes you admitting to being a treasonous traitorous dog. That I do not wish to engage in correspondence with any more.

I'm guessing that poor old Charles has forgotten to take his medication today?

One of these may be of some help:

(http://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/ShowImage.aspx?image=ProductImages/31483.jpg&width=400&height=400)
—Is that distant barking I can hear Charles?


           ;D
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 11, 2014, 07:50:46 AM
And it  looks like your loyalties lay with a  foreign entity & its Agenda. Not your sovereign country or its sovereign people. The words for a person of that lowlife standing, is treasonous traitorous dog. Bark away all you like. It  doesn't change a thing , your still a treasonous traitorous dog.         
Until you can substantiate your claims, with any sort of citation at all, it will hold no sway over me.  It is obvious that you haven't looked into the subject other than conspiracy websites that confirm your views.  You won't even look into the original document and see what it actually says.

Earlier in this thread you told me that wiki links were not allowed at Australian universities.  Would they be more acceptable than no sources at all?
Spoken like a true treasonous traitorous dog. I dont need to post what information I hold.
Well, yes you do.  If you don't, you have an unsubstantiated claim.
Quote
The present churched up UN Agenda 21 document displayed on the internet at present.
Please provide evidence of your claim that the document available on the internet is not the original.
Quote
Only needs the person reading it to apply a little  maths, to come up with the same outcome & conclusion.   
Oh really?  Show me the maths.  And why you they should be applied and why you are right in applying them.

See Charles, you do need to support your claims.  I have supported mine, you have not supported yours.
you do need to support your claims.  I have supported mine, you have not supported yours.
Yes you have indeed . You have admitted to supporting implementation of a foreign entities agenda by stealth means. Which is sabotaging your  countries sovereignty & the sovereignty of its people. Which makes you admitting to being a treasonous traitorous dog. That I do not wish to engage in correspondence with any more.
Please re-read my posts and point out where I said I supported Agenda 21.  All I have done is refute your claims that it wants to reduce world population by 70% and that it sets up human exclusion zones.  I looked through the document and saw nothing of the sort in it.  I have asked you to please quote the document where it says that.  You have not done so. 
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 11, 2014, 08:03:57 AM

Please re-read my posts and point out where I said I supported Agenda 21.  All I have done is refute your claims that it wants to reduce world population by 70% and that it sets up human exclusion zones.  I looked through the document and saw nothing of the sort in it.  I have asked you to please quote the document where it says that.  You have not done so.

Charles won't and can't post any reference to this claim of his because it doesn't exist in the real world.  Poor old Charles seems to be living in some sort of delusional, unreal inner world of his own.  He's obviously out of touch with the world that everybody else inhabits, plus he has delusions of grandeur which blind him to logic and coherence.

We probably should pity the poor guy, but it's always been hard not to laugh at a clown's antics.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 11, 2014, 08:43:09 AM
Yes you have indeed . You have admitted to supporting implementation of a foreign entities agenda by stealth means. Which is sabotaging your  countries sovereignty & the sovereignty of its people. Which makes you admitting to being a treasonous traitorous dog. That I do not wish to engage in correspondence with any more.

I'm guessing that poor old Charles has forgotten to take his medication today?

One of these may be of some help:

(http://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/ShowImage.aspx?image=ProductImages/31483.jpg&width=400&height=400)
—Is that distant barking I can hear Charles?


           ;D
Hearing your own echo are you Geoff. Do you think people haven't woke up to UN agenda 21 & the ICLEI already Geoff ?. 
 Don't worry they will know where to find you. After  Peter Spencer is successful in the high court & he will be, he has thousands of pages of Government incriminating documents for evidence & his not interested in settling the matter out of court. The scum bags can only stall for so long.  ;)         
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 11, 2014, 04:25:42 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916)
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on July 11, 2014, 10:12:59 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916)
And what does that have to do with Chemtrails and UN Agenda 21?  Nothing.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 12, 2014, 05:43:14 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916)
And what does that have to do with chemtrails and UN Agenda 21?  Nothing.

I agree... Absolutely nothing.  Zero.  Zilch.  Nada.  It's a feeble distraction; nothing more LOL.

Poor old Charles is simply trying to divert attention from his inability to quote any citations to his loony tunes notions about 70% depopulation and "exclusion zones" by posting totally irrelevant links intended to derail the thread and/or create a smoke screen.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 12, 2014, 07:46:48 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/nsw-hunger-striker-peter-spencer-12-06-14/5518916)
And what does that have to do with chemtrails and UN Agenda 21?  Nothing.

I agree... Absolutely nothing.  Zero.  Zilch.  Nada.  It's a feeble distraction; nothing more LOL.

Poor old Charles is simply trying to divert attention from his inability to quote any citations to his loony tunes notions about 70% depopulation and "exclusion zones" by posting totally irrelevant links intended to derail the thread and/or create a smoke screen.
That's how you scum work. By claiming anything that implicates you in wrong doing, is nothing more then a conspiracy theory. But then you can expect nothing less from lying sacks of shit.
The UN agenda 21 & the ICLEI implantation consists of removing farmers rights to farm on THEIR land. Are you denning this is not taking place by an unlawful sly stealth back door approach Geoff. Are you denying legislating via Unlawful planning scheme overlays is not taking place Geoff . Are you going to deny UN Agenda 21 isan't  to control all resources of water  land & sea. Turning vast areas of farm land in to national parks & reserves. Vast fishing areas in to national park no fishing zones. Where is the food supply to feed the population going to come from Geoff ?
GM food ? You really dont understand how dangerous to ones health consuming the wrong forms of proteins can be.
The fact is .If you can control weather pattens,rain fall,amount of sun light & UV for synthesis of carbon to carbohydrate for plant growth & the food resource for animals .You can control viability & the worth of the land. Making selected vast areas of land use commercial worthless, for the period of time you wanted it to be & control share & trade  markets.
Why should anyone take the word of those who are engaged in systematically undermining their constitutional laws their lawful rights & sovereignty of their country. Why would any one put  faith in what anyone associated with the implantation of  UN Agenda 21 & ICLEI  had to say about anything. Why should they  not  trust what their own eyes see taking place in the sky's above them. Why should they not believe what they feel is taking place when the technology exists to do so & has since the 1940s. A treaty of UN signatory's to out law it. The same UN that's implementing an Agenda to undermine, countries sovereignty & remove the sovereign peoples lawful constitutional rights & take control of the land . My advise to any one asking if they are condensation trails or chem trails, to trust their eyes & gut instinct. Before placing any dependable faith what so ever, in what a group had to say when they are lying sly treasonous conniving untrustworthy bastards.                         
         
   
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on July 12, 2014, 08:50:12 PM
Paranoia.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: guv on July 13, 2014, 03:12:21 AM
Charlie boy it should be a bit obvious to anyone that there are too many people on this planet. The rich pigs who run the show know it too. Fucking obvious. when a dog gets too many fleas it tries to kick them off. you may have something in your theory but us little people cant do a lot about it. Stop stressing and grab a long neck, you are in Aus, shut up and be happy, you could be back where you come from.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on July 13, 2014, 07:56:44 AM
That's how you scum work.
And precisely which "scum" would that be Charles?  The government, the scientific fraternity, university educators, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, the CSIRO, the Australian Federal Police, the Army and Navy and Air Force, the Bureau of Meteorology, the EPA, private pilots and merchant sea captains, paleontologists, aeronautical engineers, climatologists, geophysicists... you know, all those people and organisations that you believe are involved with their opposite numbers in every other country in the world?

Quote
By claiming anything that implicates you in wrong doing, is nothing more then a conspiracy theory.
Ah yes.  I knew the good old, tried and trusted "conspiracy theory" would rear its tired old head again.  We thank you for this Charles.  A truly convincing argument.   ;D

Quote
But then you can expect nothing less from lying sacks of shit.
Gee whiz... with such a thorough debunking as that, it's hard not to believe all of Charles's contrary theories.  I mean... we all know for a fact that those "sacks of shit" inevitably fail to tell the truth.  Spot on again Charles.  Well done mate.

Quote
Before placing any dependable faith what so ever, in what a group had to say when they are lying sly treasonous conniving untrustworthy bastards.
Uh... can you tell us what you really think of these government conspirators Charles?                         
         
BTW, you still haven't provided the citation that supports your Agenda 21 claim that it proposes to depopulate the world by 70% and create human exclusion zones.  Can you please do so?


Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: QuQu on July 13, 2014, 08:21:49 AM
Charles is not 8 years old boy. This thing is a professional idiot. He need our sympathy and emergency psychiatric help.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 13, 2014, 08:14:34 PM
Charles is not 8 years old boy. This thing is a professional idiot. He need our sympathy and emergency psychiatric help.
A you dont know much about Trusts  trusties & beneficiaries .A countries constitution is a Trust document a contract with terms & conditions set out. The people of the sovereign country are the share holders & beneficiaries of the trust. The politicians are only the administrators. Who's job is to administer the trust in accordance with the lawful terms & conditions of the trust. The administrators can not lawful operate out side the provisions laid down in that Trust. The administrates cant transfer control of that Trust when the provisions are not in that trust to do so. with out the majority  consent of the share holders & beneficiaries. The administrators can not appoint them self holder of the trust, administrates & sole beneficiaries. That is breach of Trust and an indictable crime. That is treason & fraud.
Removing the rights of the share holders &  beneficiaries of a Trust. When there are no provisions to do so contained in that Trust document (contract). Is an indictable crime.       
             
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: charles bloomington on July 14, 2014, 06:56:22 AM
Maybe Geoff would like to explain. How a Country's constitution (Trust) which is indissoluble, with the only terms & provisions for changing that indissoluble Trust (contract) is  by the provisions contained in it. Which requires the Governor general & administrators of the Trust document (parliamentary politicians) to call a  referendum. (Share holders beneficiary vote). Maybe Geoff would like to explain. Under what lawful authority are the administrators (parliamentary politicians) signing theses treatises. When the trust document does not give them lawful authority & empowerment to sign treaties, with out first satisfying the terms of the Trust. That term & provision requires referendum (Share holders beneficiary vote) & Royal assent. That has never been obtained to sign UN Agenda 21 documents for participation.                   
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Shmeggley on July 14, 2014, 07:17:07 AM
Charles, in your mind is all this blather about constitutions and referendums and agendas somehow evidence that dangerous chemicals are deliberately dumped out of conmercial jets under the guise of normal contrails? Why don't you connect the dots for those of us who don't know the finer points of the Australian parlimentary system?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: hoppy on September 06, 2014, 04:01:02 PM
(http://)

If chemtrails are so natural, why did they add chemtrails to an old movie. I'm sorry if this has been gone over already.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on September 07, 2014, 12:33:50 AM
(http://)

If chemtrails are so natural, why did they add chemtrails to an old movie. I'm sorry if this has been gone over already.

Oh dear.  You've missed the whole point of the ad LOL.

Every shot is meant to show an incongruity of its time.  That's the only reason the contrail (not chemtrail) has been added to the 2005 version.

They could've just as easily added the image of a wind turbine, a helicopter, a satellite dish, or the Empire State Building in the background.

You're really grasping at straws with this "evidence" as proof for the existence of so-called chemtrails.  Too many flat earthers are relying too often on alleged evidence for their claims by posting bizarre, pseudo-scientific YouTube clips made by people with no scientific background.

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: liimr on September 14, 2014, 02:15:14 AM
This is a blatantly obvious and well established fact with tons of evidence. Even the government agencies now admit it openly (research on: geoengineering project)

It is indeed a litmus test. In my view whoever denies it:
1- either hasn't done his due diligence,
2- or was unable to process the info properly to find the truth,
3- or... is a) an ignorant person b) troll c) disinfo agent etc.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Rama Set on September 14, 2014, 04:47:04 AM
This is a blatantly obvious and well established fact with tons of evidence. Even the government agencies now admit it openly (research on: geoengineering project)

It is indeed a litmus test. In my view whoever denies it:
1- either hasn't done his due diligence,
2- or was unable to process the info properly to find the truth,
3- or... is a) an ignorant person b) troll c) disinfo agent etc.

I choose option #4-Is sane.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on September 14, 2014, 08:46:33 AM
This is a blatantly obvious and well established fact with tons of evidence.


Nope.  Sorry.  The existence of so-called "chemtrails" is not "blatant".  Blatant means undeniable, and everyone—other than conspiracy nutters—deny their existence, based on simple science.

There are no "well established facts".  What you're referring to are known in the science world as factoids; something fictitious or unsubstantiated that is presented as fact.

The only "tons" of "evidence" point directly at the existence of contrails only.  There is no evidence for the made-up notion of "chemtrails" other than in the conspirators' tiny brains.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: johnreynaga on October 02, 2014, 10:54:28 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  Look into the people that you are following.  If they are trying to leave you with this situation saying that they are really "contrails", then they are a shill.  Plain and simple.  At least chemtrails is good for that.  People don't really know that Alex Jones, Abby Martin, Joe Rogan, and many other people that we see in media are shills.  It's bad enough the main news organizations give us fake news, but the "alternative" media is just simply controlled opposition.  Learn about the Jesuit order, because they are the ones that own you and who are destroying your futures.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on October 03, 2014, 01:28:19 AM
Chemtrails are a fact.
 

I have no qualms with you holding that personal opinion... Voltaire and all that stuff.

But contemporary science effectively proves it to be erroneous due to a total lack of any contradictory evidence supporting the obvious contrail mechanism.  Unless you can post the results of an accredited examination of the molecular structure of your purported "chemtrails" you're simply guessing—in line with all the other conspiracy nutters out there.

Any/all jet contrails are simply composed of ice crystals—hydrogen and oxygen.  Nothing more; nothing less.  End of story.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: BJ1234 on October 08, 2014, 04:32:50 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  Look into the people that you are following.  If they are trying to leave you with this situation saying that they are really "contrails", then they are a shill.  Plain and simple.  At least chemtrails is good for that.  People don't really know that Alex Jones, Abby Martin, Joe Rogan, and many other people that we see in media are shills.  It's bad enough the main news organizations give us fake news, but the "alternative" media is just simply controlled opposition.  Learn about the Jesuit order, because they are the ones that own you and who are destroying your futures.

Wait, so let me get this right, the main stream media are paid shills for the conspiracyTM and the alternative media are controlled by the conspiracyTM also?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on October 12, 2014, 02:02:21 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  Look into the people that you are following.  If they are trying to leave you with this situation saying that they are really "contrails", then they are a shill.  Plain and simple.  At least chemtrails is good for that.  People don't really know that Alex Jones, Abby Martin, Joe Rogan, and many other people that we see in media are shills.  It's bad enough the main news organizations give us fake news, but the "alternative" media is just simply controlled opposition.  Learn about the Jesuit order, because they are the ones that own you and who are destroying your futures.
I'm sorry.
This is just much too ridiculous to argue about. You honestly are crazy enough to think that all of us are blatently hiding the truth of chemtrails to throw others off the trail?
I mean, come on. Really.
This should not even be anywhere on these forums.
Read about contrails. I promise you that that is a solution to the problem you're having that doesn't break Occam's razor.
It makes a whole mess of sense as an explanation.

QUESTION: If there have existed chemtrails as long as there has existed planes - WHY AREN'T WE ALL DEAD FROM ALL THE POISON?
If you think these "chemtrails" are new, please look at some old videos of planes zipping around forming these trails.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on November 01, 2014, 11:02:21 PM
This image dates to c. 1949...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/RB-36H_with_six_contrails.jpg/800px-RB-36H_with_six_contrails.jpg)

It clearly shows the six contrails from each of the engines on a Convair B-36 "Peacemaker" which first flew in 1946, and was built then at a unit cost of $4.1 million.  Would any flat earther care to tell us exactly how "they" introduced the toxic chemicals to the contrails?  Or why "they" would use such a large, easily identifiable and super expensive aircraft to allegedly dust the skies?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on November 09, 2014, 12:17:58 AM
So... no flat earther's prepared to address a pretty simple, legitimate question about contrails—or purported "chemtrails"?

Why is it that whenever a round earther poses a question that the flat earthers can't answer, they just disappear—and hope the thread does too?

Anyway... the "chemtrail" conspiracy was only started in 1996 by a US talk-show host Arthur Bell—who believes in time-travellers, ghosts and psychics—so how can it be that this post-WWII plane is showing what the flat earthers describe as "chemtrails" rather than what they are; contrails?  Or would they agree that the image in fact shows contrails.  And if that's the case, how then do the flat earthers differentiate between "chemtrails" and contrails?

Or are they unable to?
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: hoppy on November 09, 2014, 11:44:23 AM
Contrails disappear quickly, a few minutes. Chemtrails stay above for hours and often spread into a general haze in the sky.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on November 09, 2014, 01:28:09 PM
Contrails disappear quickly, a few minutes. Chemtrails stay above for hours and often spread into a general haze in the sky.

Nope, and nope.  Please check out THIS (http://bit.ly/10Ne4Bx) site for a rebuttal.


(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/jet_fuel.png)


    ;D
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: johnreynaga on December 17, 2014, 12:11:45 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  They are so obvious that sometimes even the shills have to give in to that they might actually be being sprayed.  There are some things however that the shills will never talk about.  The space/universe fraud and nuclear weapons being all lies.  I have been looking at evidence for over a year now.  I have two 15 minute videos here that I put together that are damning for this global control and lies that we are told.  Please take the time to watch and share the information.  You have my permission to download and use these in any way possible.  The world needs to wake up to what's going on, our rights are being destroyed.  Our futures are being destroyed.
(http://)
(http://)
Stop watching television, it is controlled.  Learn about Freemasons, and more importantly, learn of the Jesuit order.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 17, 2014, 01:05:40 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  They are so obvious that sometimes even the shills have to give in to that they might actually be being sprayed.  There are some things however that the shills will never talk about.  The space/universe fraud and nuclear weapons being all lies.  I have been looking at evidence for over a year now.  I have two 15 minute videos here that I put together that are damning for this global control and lies that we are told.  Please take the time to watch and share the information.  You have my permission to download and use these in any way possible.  The world needs to wake up to what's going on, our rights are being destroyed.  Our futures are being destroyed.
(http://)
(http://)
Stop watching television, it is controlled.  Learn about Freemasons, and more importantly, learn of the Jesuit order.
Much of what I know about physics I learned from experimentation, does the government control physics too?

With the chemtrail theory, do you honestly thing that nobody, not even the people who build airplanes, have noticed tanks of mind control chemicals and sprayers that would be needed to release it?  It's not like the inner workings of aircrafts are top secret or anything.

If nuclear bombs are lies, then what wiped out the two Japanese cities that were nuked?  Was it aliens from the underside of the Earth?

No massive international conspiracy at the scale that you are proposing has never happened before, and also if people can take away the free will of others then that would disprove my religion, so please understand my skepticism.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 18, 2014, 05:28:57 AM
John Reynaga ia a well-known internet "kook" and I'm surprised RationalWiki doesn't yet list him as it does with Anders Björkman.

These two YouTube clips are full of so much absolute bullshit I'm surprised they haven't been deleted:

(http://)
(http://)

(http://fineartamerica.com/images/artistlogos/1-john-reynaga-1410317524-medium.jpg)

The above is an image of this petulant-looking whack-job.

And the following is typical of the sort of rubbish he posts all over the web:  "We are being lied to about the space programs of the world powers.  NASA is total fraud, and exists to lie to the American people.  I'm guessing that if they have any real function, they must be like an extension of the military or something.  There aren't satellites orbiting the Earth, we didn't visit the moon, and we aren't probing our solar system with anything.  The Mars landers from the 70's and the more recent rovers were all nonsense as well.  Nuclear weapons don't even exist.  We have global controllers and we are being lied to every single day of our lives."

Anybody with a functioning brain will notice that Reynaga never supports his absurd claims with any empirical evidence.  He apparently reckons we should accept what he's saying as the truth simply because he says it's so.

Apart from seemingly thinking that people actually listen to what he has to say with any credulity, he also seems to seriously believe in his own bizarre theories. One can only assume that he's self-delusional to a serious degree, or more likely has a paranoid personality disorder.  People with paranoid personality disorder are generally characterized by having a long-standing pattern of pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others.  They'll also invariably  believe that other people’s motives are suspect or even malevolent, and assume that other people will exploit, harm, or deceive them, even if no evidence exists to support this expectation.

Does this sound like Reynaga?  Sure does.    ::)



Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 18, 2014, 07:57:31 PM
Chemtrails are a fact.  They are so obvious that sometimes even the shills have to give in to that they might actually be being sprayed.  There are some things however that the shills will never talk about.  The space/universe fraud and nuclear weapons being all lies.  I have been looking at evidence for over a year now.  I have two 15 minute videos here that I put together that are damning for this global control and lies that we are told.  Please take the time to watch and share the information.  You have my permission to download and use these in any way possible.  The world needs to wake up to what's going on, our rights are being destroyed.  Our futures are being destroyed.
(http://)
(http://)
Stop watching television, it is controlled.  Learn about Freemasons, and more importantly, learn of the Jesuit order.
I have taken the time to watch your videos and all they are is this kind of thing:  "These people are f***ing idiots because they don't f***ing care that they are f***ing lying to the f***ing public and the f***ers only care about their f***ing pay check rather then f***ing ethics."

You never actually gave any evidence that these things are faked.  The reason that there aren't more pictures of Earth is because launching things into space is expensive and nobody wants to pay thousands of dollars just to get one picture of Earth.  GPS satellites don't take pictures of Earth because they don't have cameras and most satellites are in low orbit meaning that they are too close to get an image of the whole Earth.  If you want to find real pictures of Earth then you should search "photo of earth from space".  Nuclear explosions are REALLY bright, and that means that they can damage most cameras, it's really hard to find a camera that is made to withstand such brightness.  The "bubbles" coming from ISS astronauts are just low resolution specs on the screen that could be anything and scuba tanks are also used to store other gasses and it makes sense that there is one on the ISS.

Based off of your low video quality, constant swearing, and lack of evidence I can't really take you too seriously.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: guv on December 18, 2014, 08:52:23 PM
Atom crackers do work.

http://www.montebello.com.au/atomic_tests.html (http://www.montebello.com.au/atomic_tests.html)

And chem trails have been used.

 http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/agent-orange (http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/agent-orange)

And contrails do happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail)


So what is all the carry on about.

Get a real life.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: johnreynaga on December 19, 2014, 03:35:09 PM
Sorry guys, there are shills commenting on this forum.  There are millions of people all over the world involved in this corruption against humanity at various levels, and you get shills galore as a result.  Timelapse videos of chemtrails and "chem halo" videos from the saturation of the sky are damning.  Learn about Freemasons and the Jesuit order, the world governments are controlled.  And the shills are the biggest losers in all of human history lol

(http://)

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Lemmiwinks on December 19, 2014, 04:23:26 PM
Sorry guys, there are shills commenting on this forum.  There are millions of people all over the world involved in this corruption against humanity at various levels, and you get shills galore as a result.  Timelapse videos of chemtrails and "chem halo" videos from the saturation of the sky are damning.  Learn about Freemasons and the Jesuit order, the world governments are controlled.  And the shills are the biggest losers in all of human history lol

(http://)

I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.

All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.

I'd say I'm winning.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 20, 2014, 02:36:43 AM
Sorry guys, there are shills commenting on this forum.  There are millions of people all over the world involved in this corruption against humanity at various levels, and you get shills galore as a result.  Timelapse videos of chemtrails and "chem halo" videos from the saturation of the sky are damning.  Learn about Freemasons and the Jesuit order, the world governments are controlled.  And the shills are the biggest losers in all of human history lol

It never ceases to amuse me that when the predictable crop of conspiracy nutters are called out as blatant liars and messengers of disinformation, they invariable call their critics "shills" or claim they're in the thrall of the world governments or the CIA or the New World Order or whatever.  And like most flat earthers, Reynaga doesn't even understand what the word "shill" means—maybe he's been taking the same drugs as sceptimatic?  It's actual meaning?   A shill is "person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty".   And I'm "praising" Reynaga?  Hardly LOL.  Quite the opposite in fact.  Whack jobs rate very poorly even in my book of cyberspace characters to avoid.

For an independent view of the allegations about "chemtrails" check out THIS (http://bit.ly/10Ne4Bx) site.

There are of course no such thing as "chemtrails" other than in the distorted imaginations of the conspiracy theorists.  None of them has ever had the purported chemical discharges analysed by a laboratory—which is proof in itself that they don't exist as alleged.  None of them has ever posted a video of the chemicals being loaded onto planes, or the empty containers being offloaded.  This despite the conspiracy theorists claiming this is happening all over the world.  No airline maintenance engineer has ever reported sighting anything like like happening, nor has any pilot, or any air traffic controller, or even any commercial airline passengers.

I can only suggest—again—that this John Reynaga be totally ignored. His comments are nothing more than the delusional ramblings of somebody totally out of touch with the real world, and very little—if any—understanding of the real world the rest of us inhabit.

There's a very revealing exposé of paranoid conspiracy theorists you can check out HERE (http://bit.ly/1r9sKHb).  And Reynaga ticks all the boxes they bring up LOL.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Lemmiwinks on December 23, 2014, 12:33:01 AM
Sorry guys, there are shills commenting on this forum.  There are millions of people all over the world involved in this corruption against humanity at various levels, and you get shills galore as a result.  Timelapse videos of chemtrails and "chem halo" videos from the saturation of the sky are damning.  Learn about Freemasons and the Jesuit order, the world governments are controlled.  And the shills are the biggest losers in all of human history lol

It never ceases to amuse me that when the predictable crop of conspiracy nutters are called out as blatant liars and messengers of disinformation, they invariable call their critics "shills" or claim they're in the thrall of the world governments or the CIA or the New World Order or whatever.  And like most flat earthers, Reynaga doesn't even understand what the word "shill" means—maybe he's been taking the same drugs as sceptimatic?  It's actual meaning?   A shill is "person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty".   And I'm "praising" Reynaga?  Hardly LOL.  Quite the opposite in fact.  Whack jobs rate very poorly even in my book of cyberspace characters to avoid.

For an independent view of the allegations about "chemtrails" check out THIS (http://bit.ly/10Ne4Bx) site.

There are of course no such thing as "chemtrails" other than in the distorted imaginations of the conspiracy theorists.  None of them has ever had the purported chemical discharges analysed by a laboratory—which is proof in itself that they don't exist as alleged.  None of them has ever posted a video of the chemicals being loaded onto planes, or the empty containers being offloaded.  This despite the conspiracy theorists claiming this is happening all over the world.  No airline maintenance engineer has ever reported sighting anything like like happening, nor has any pilot, or any air traffic controller, or even any commercial airline passengers.

I can only suggest—again—that this John Reynaga be totally ignored. His comments are nothing more than the delusional ramblings of somebody totally out of touch with the real world, and very little—if any—understanding of the real world the rest of us inhabit.

There's a very revealing exposé of paranoid conspiracy theorists you can check out HERE (http://bit.ly/1r9sKHb).  And Reynaga ticks all the boxes they bring up LOL.

I kinda love the idea of a place where the 5 million people employed be the US goverment, 25,000 at NASA alone, the millions upon millions employed by the aeronautics companies, airports, pilots and the millions that live around, hang around and work around airports, have yet to provide one iota of concrete evidence of chemtrails.

It all has to come from pasty trailer dwellers that think the CIA is reading their brains and somehow a couple few people can run the world without any one of the tens of millions needed for running it in their names would find and provide damning evidence to the rest of the world.

You keep reaching for that rainbow Reynaga, maybe someday you'll get to live in the Matrix like I know  you so desperately hope.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: hoppy on December 23, 2014, 08:33:28 PM
Sorry guys, there are shills commenting on this forum.  There are millions of people all over the world involved in this corruption against humanity at various levels, and you get shills galore as a result.  Timelapse videos of chemtrails and "chem halo" videos from the saturation of the sky are damning.  Learn about Freemasons and the Jesuit order, the world governments are controlled.  And the shills are the biggest losers in all of human history lol

(http://)

I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.

All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.

I'd say I'm winning.
Hehe, that's what you think.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 24, 2014, 07:48:52 AM
I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.
All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.
I'd say I'm winning.

Hehe, that's what you think.

There's no "think" about it hoppy.  We're winning hands down.  The spherical earth model is the only viable model.  This is even more the obvious case, because despite asking the flat earthers innumerable times on these forums to post a model of their flat earth, they are unable to do so.  Not even one single flat earther will give it a go.

So... until, or if, the flat earthers ever post a working model of their proposed flat earth, the spherical earth model wins by default alone LOL.

C'mon flat earthers, surely one of you can post a diagram of your flat earth?

Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: hoppy on December 24, 2014, 08:59:46 AM
I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.
All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.
I'd say I'm winning.

Hehe, that's what you think.

There's no "think" about it hoppy.  We're winning hands down.  The spherical earth model is the only viable model.  This is even more the obvious case, because despite asking the flat earthers innumerable times on these forums to post a model of their flat earth, they are unable to do so.  Not even one single flat earther will give it a go.

So... until, or if, the flat earthers ever post a working model of their proposed flat earth, the spherical earth model wins by default alone LOL.

C'mon flat earthers, surely one of you can post a diagram of your flat earth?
Flat earthers have posted proof, diagrams, pictures, long conversations and other irrefutable proof of flatness. If you are unable to comprehend these matters, maybe a reading comprehension course would help. Perhaps you are too lazy to spend your time learning, if this is the case I doubt that we will be able to help you.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 24, 2014, 10:17:06 AM
I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.
All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.
I'd say I'm winning.

Hehe, that's what you think.

There's no "think" about it hoppy.  We're winning hands down.  The spherical earth model is the only viable model.  This is even more the obvious case, because despite asking the flat earthers innumerable times on these forums to post a model of their flat earth, they are unable to do so.  Not even one single flat earther will give it a go.

So... until, or if, the flat earthers ever post a working model of their proposed flat earth, the spherical earth model wins by default alone LOL.

C'mon flat earthers, surely one of you can post a diagram of your flat earth?
Flat earthers have posted proof, diagrams, pictures, long conversations and other irrefutable proof of flatness. If you are unable to comprehend these matters, maybe a reading comprehension course would help. Perhaps you are too lazy to spend your time learning, if this is the case I doubt that we will be able to help you.

Diagrams, pictures, and long conversations prove nothing and the rest of your "proof" is based off of misunderstandings about the standard model.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: Lemmiwinks on December 24, 2014, 12:42:09 PM
I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.
All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.
I'd say I'm winning.

Hehe, that's what you think.

There's no "think" about it hoppy.  We're winning hands down.  The spherical earth model is the only viable model.  This is even more the obvious case, because despite asking the flat earthers innumerable times on these forums to post a model of their flat earth, they are unable to do so.  Not even one single flat earther will give it a go.

So... until, or if, the flat earthers ever post a working model of their proposed flat earth, the spherical earth model wins by default alone LOL.

C'mon flat earthers, surely one of you can post a diagram of your flat earth?
Flat earthers have posted proof, diagrams, pictures, long conversations and other irrefutable proof of flatness. If you are unable to comprehend these matters, maybe a reading comprehension course would help. Perhaps you are too lazy to spend your time learning, if this is the case I doubt that we will be able to help you.

And we have torn each of those items apart with completely impartial math. You deciding to ignore reality when it doesn't suit you doesn't equal you winning.

Besides, have you been with an Aussie woman? Trust me, it's winning. :p
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 24, 2014, 02:34:49 PM
Flat earthers have posted proof, diagrams, pictures, long conversations and other irrefutable proof of flatness. If you are unable to comprehend these matters, maybe a reading comprehension course would help. Perhaps you are too lazy to spend your time learning, if this is the case I doubt that we will be able to help you.

Can you please link me to posts wherein the flat earthers have provided their model(s) of their flat earth?

"Long conversations" do not constitute any proof whatsoever.  We could have a long conversation about the existence of ghosts or UFOs, but in and of itself, that conversation wouldn't prove the case for or against their existence.  Both parties need viable evidence.

And for your information, if you seriously think that—as a flat earther—you can "help" me to comprehend all this scientific stuff, then you're sadly delusional LOL.  Feeble put-downs don't help you further your argument either—they just reinforce my opinion that you're struggling to make a case for your flat earth.  And ad hominems are the last resort of the desperate.
Title: Re: CHEMTRAILS..... Fact or Fiction?
Post by: sokarul on December 24, 2014, 05:19:31 PM
I dunno, I have a beautiful Australian woman, a good job and a beautiful house.
All on top of that phat shill money. While you are kinda greasy.
I'd say I'm winning.

Hehe, that's what you think.

There's no "think" about it hoppy.  We're winning hands down.  The spherical earth model is the only viable model.  This is even more the obvious case, because despite asking the flat earthers innumerable times on these forums to post a model of their flat earth, they are unable to do so.  Not even one single flat earther will give it a go.

So... until, or if, the flat earthers ever post a working model of their proposed flat earth, the spherical earth model wins by default alone LOL.

C'mon flat earthers, surely one of you can post a diagram of your flat earth?
Flat earthers have posted proof, diagrams, pictures, long conversations and other irrefutable proof of flatness. If you are unable to comprehend these matters, maybe a reading comprehension course would help. Perhaps you are too lazy to spend your time learning, if this is the case I doubt that we will be able to help you.
Big claims from such a little lady.