The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Q&A => Topic started by: tappet on November 05, 2013, 03:25:03 PM

Title: How far could you see?
Post by: tappet on November 05, 2013, 03:25:03 PM
This question is directed at the flat earther only.
I do not believe the earth to be round and I feel  if I had a telescope with enough power I could see great distances maybe even other countries, does this fit with your beliefs?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 05, 2013, 03:30:18 PM
 The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: tappet on November 05, 2013, 03:32:38 PM
What if the air was perfectly transparent?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 05, 2013, 03:52:05 PM
Then you would be able to see an infinite distance.  However, the air has dust, moister and other stuff in it that hinders the distance it can travel. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: tappet on November 05, 2013, 04:26:49 PM
Thanks, this is what I also believe.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 05:01:40 AM
Then you would be able to see an infinite distance.  However, the air has dust, moister and other stuff in it that hinders the distance it can travel.

So tell me why the sun isn't 'fogged-in' as it sets or rises?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 07:09:31 AM
It is.  It gets dimmer and dimmer until it can not be seen anymore. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 07:41:21 AM
The sun doesn't get dimmer and dimmer.........it comes up from the east horizon and moves over head and then disappears out of view over the west horizon.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 07:46:23 AM
It is just an optical illusion.  The atmolayer does funny things to light.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 07:55:26 AM
An optical illusion makes it appear to go from the east to above my head to the east and then down under the horizon?

That is an amazing optical illusion.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 08:39:45 AM
It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:41:44 AM
Quote
It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 


It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:43:07 AM
If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 08:46:52 AM
Quote
It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 


It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

It goes in a circle.

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Bilbobaggins on November 06, 2013, 08:50:08 AM
You say the sun doesn't set below the horizon but fades away in the distance.  How is this picture explained then?  ...or the countless other sunset/sunrise pictures.

Please show us a picture of an example of the sun "fading away" so I can understand what you mean.  Surely there must be a few.

(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/the-setting-sun-bill-cannon.jpg)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 08:52:17 AM
Quote
It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

Quote
The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 08:58:31 AM
I told you it's an optical illusion.  How can I show you a picture with out the illusion occurring?  I don't have an illusion filter for my camera.

Quote
It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

Like this.

(http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/a/a1/Seasons.png)

Quote
The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.

Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion? 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 09:02:53 AM
It is.  It gets dimmer and dimmer until it can not be seen anymore.

Not on the earth I live on. The sun always disappears bottom-up. It does not fade away like I would expect if I would be living on your world.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 09:04:48 AM
Quote
Like this.

Yeah. Fancy diagram.

Doesn't match up to what we actually see the sun do in reality, however.

Quote
Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion? 


Yes, it makes stars appear to twinkle.

It doesn't however, make objects appear somewhere they couldn't physically be in reality.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 09:05:27 AM
Quote
It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 


It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

It goes in a circle.

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

If it goes in a circle, I would expect to see that. Also how can the atmolayer be magnifying things. You know a magnifying glass is a convex. I certainly would not expect the atmo'layer' to be convex on a flat world. Your theory becomes more bizarre by the minute.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 09:12:52 AM
Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Fresnel_Lens_Fire.jpg)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 09:22:17 AM
Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Fresnel_Lens_Fire.jpg)

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 09:24:18 AM
Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Fresnel_Lens_Fire.jpg)

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png)

It just goes to show you that you have misconceptions about magnification.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 09:32:27 AM
Not all magnifying lenses are convex.  Some are flat. 

(http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/images/Fresnel_Lens_Fire.jpg)

Even that 'flat' lens is a convex, although less convex than ordinary magnifying lenses.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Fresnel_lens.svg/401px-Fresnel_lens.svg.png)

It just goes to show you that you have misconceptions about magnification.

Check out that picture of a Fresnel Lens and tell me what is not convex about it. You'll find that you have a misconception about magnification.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.

It has been mentioned before on previous threads. But there are such things as infrared films with the proper filters which can eliminate haze and other atmospheric effects. If you used these with a powerful enough telescope you should be able to take pictures of Honolulu from San Diego. That is only about 2500 miles. This is just a common thing that a lot of photographers - amateur or professional - do . They use the film and filters  to eliminate haze to get clear pictures such as distant mountains, etc.

I would suggest Flat Earthers do this and post their photographs. Diamond Head at Honolulu and Point Loma in San Diego are suggested points for taking the photographs. Why haven't the Flat Earthers done this and published the photographs on this website ?  It should be very simple to do.....If the earth was flat, that is.

You are seeing through just a relatively thin layer of the earth's atmosphere, but you can see the moon, the sun and stars light years away at night. That is fairly close to infinity.   

P.S. If I'm not wrong and having been on this website for a bit, I would suppose that the Flat Earthers are not going to do this for themselves, but ask Round Earthers to do it for them.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 10:27:52 AM
The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.

It has been mentioned before on previous threads. But there are such things as infrared films with the proper filters which can eliminate haze and other atmospheric effects. If you used these with a powerful enough telescope you should be able to take pictures of Honolu from San Diego. That is only about 2500 miles. This is just a common thing that a lot of photographers - amateur or professional - do . They use the film and filters  to eliminate haze to get clear pictures such as distant mountains, etc.

I would suggest Flat Earthers do this and post their photographs. Diamond Head at Honolulu and Point Loma in San Diego are suggested points for taking the photographs. Why haven't the Flat Earther done this and published the photographs on this website ?  It should be very simple to do.....If the earth was flat, that is.

You are seeing through just a relatively thin layer of the earth's atmosphere, but you can see the moon, the sun and stars light years away at night. That is fairly close to infinity.

That last thing you said isn't true. The atmosphere does not reach till the moon or the stars, but just above the horizon (where we can observe the moon/stars/sun) on a flat earth it would need to travel through a very thick atmosphere of several thousands of miles. The FET says we cannot see so far, but we still observe the moon, stars and the sun.... that's a contradiction.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 10:36:55 AM
Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this? 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

Thanks, jroa. But I think what you are saying is that the moon and the sun are only 3000 miles from the earth in FE Theory ?

Ahem ! IMHO my question is. : Just who is "making stuff up" ? Don Quichotte or jroa ?

Maybe this is a bad analogy but I'll throw it out anyway .:
If you are looking at the moon, etc. you are seeing through a relatively  thin layer of the atmosphere.
If you are looking at distant objects on land you are looking across a thicker layer of atmosphere ?

PS- Sorry. I just shot myself in the foot. They don't even make infrared films for amateurs anymore. So much for that suggestion . But....again IMHO....It seems like the Flat Earthers would have done this years ago when the stuff was still available to prove their point. It would have been a prime example for evidence of a Flat Earth. Just like photos of the Ice Ring.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 11:02:31 AM
Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

Yes please make a diagram, because I observe stars the moon and the sun just above the horizon, which shouldn't be possible according to your theory.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 11:25:52 AM
Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 06, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
May I ask............what the hell is an atmoplane?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 06, 2013, 11:47:22 AM
May I ask............what the hell is an atmoplane?

Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 12:52:52 PM
Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?

 



Yes please make a diagram, because I observe stars the moon and the sun just above the horizon, which shouldn't be possible according to your theory.

On a round earth this is true, since the horizon is usually only a few miles distant from the observer the light does not pass "through thousands of miles of atmosphere." On some of the notes about the Titanic disaster there was mention of passengers and crewmen noticing stars rising and setting on the horizon.

With the unusually clear conditions that night the lights of  New York should have been seen from the passengers on the Titanic if the earth was flat.

Question for FE:
Does the bottom of the Ice Dome rest on the top of the  Ice Ring ?
Are some of the stars at the bottom of the Ice Ring ?
I have read some where on other threads that the stars, planets and other celestial objects  are just tiny specks of light on the Ice Dome just above the Moon and the Sun.
(A drawing or diagram would be helpful.)
If this is true :It would be impossible for them to be seen for the same reason the FE explains that the sun would not be seen since it was thousands of miles through the atmolayer or whatever is the FE definition for the equivalent of the atmosphere ?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 06, 2013, 01:00:54 PM
Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 01:11:57 PM
Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait

I will exercise my patience. I will wait. Got to go now . But I will be back later this evening to see how jroa is going to make Don Quichotte "look not so good." It should be interesting.  :D
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on November 06, 2013, 01:21:30 PM
Quote
Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   


Because that would be silly?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 01:26:55 PM
Quote
Well, it sure the heck is not an atmosphere.   


Because that would be silly?

You will have to ask jroa for a definiton of the atmolayer . It is an FE term.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Junker on November 06, 2013, 01:50:09 PM
It really is pretty self-explanatory, given that 'atmosphere' implies a sphere.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 06, 2013, 08:36:28 PM
Ok, I will.  And you will look not so good.

Can't wait

I will exercise my patience. I will wait. Got to go now . But I will be back later this evening to see how jroa is going to make Don Quichotte "look not so good." It should be interesting.  :D

Still waiting to hear from jroa.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 06, 2013, 10:35:07 PM
I told you it's an optical illusion.  How can I show you a picture with out the illusion occurring?  I don't have an illusion filter for my camera.

Quote
It goes in a circle.

Visual evidence would suggest the only way it is going in a circle on a flat earth is to go under the earth and come back around the other side.

Like this.

(http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/a/a1/Seasons.png)

Quote
The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

You couldn't even get a 6 year old to buy that explanation.

Have you never hear of atmospheric distortion?
By that diagram at the equator at the equinox the sun would rise in the north east and set in the north west.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 06, 2013, 10:37:42 PM
Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?
Wrong, at midnight on the equator at the equinox the sun's light would only travel through the equivalent of 20-25 kilometres of sea level atmopshere.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 04:06:45 AM
It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 05:50:17 AM
It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 08:08:33 AM
How does the moon fit into your ice dome idea sceptimatic?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on November 07, 2013, 08:09:14 AM
It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.

What is an agitated atmosphere ? Besides that, sceptimatic, I thought you were a confirmed FE ? The correct term in that case should have been agitated atmolayer ?

Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 08:48:06 AM
How does the moon fit into your ice dome idea sceptimatic?
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 08:51:07 AM
It seems that Jroa deleted his post, but I'll reply anyway. I'm not making stuff up, it's the observed world. You tell me why we can't see other objects over great distances, because the atmo- plane/layer/sphere is too thick for the light reflecting from these objects to shine through. I ask you why we can see stars, the moon and the sun just above the horizon. They need to travel through that same thickness....so yea, show me your diagram.

And don't think that's the end of it, because I'll point to any mistakes. If you have trouble making a diagram, just come clean and admit it. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
You see your stars and your moon because you are viewing them through a much less agitated atmosphere.

What is an agitated atmosphere ? Besides that, sceptimatic, I thought you were a confirmed FE ? The correct term in that case should have been agitated atmolayer ?

Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?
I'm sure you have looked down a long road on a hot summers day and saw it look like an agitated mass of waving air, right?
It basically makes mirages and what not and obscures things the further out you look.

Go and take a look down the same road on a cold day and tell me what you see.
Once you do that, try and equate all that to looking at the distant sun, both high in the sky and what you see as low and think about distance and temperature.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 08:54:14 AM
Quote
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:01:15 AM
Quote
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:05:49 AM
Quote
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

No. Because when I do that I am staring directly into a reflective surface.

When I look up at the sky I do see a reflective surface.

Your analogies are terrible.

Quote
Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

I'll see some wallpaper being lit on fire by a torch.......reflected in a mirror?

Makes zero sense.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Quote
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

You're really of the chart, aren't you? Whenever I look in the mirror I see myself in clear details. It ressembles me. Although I can't be sure of my face, it does show the clothes I wear, etc. You're saying the moon is a reflection of the earth. I've never seen the amount of craters on earth which I see on the surface of the moon. The moon is all grey, while whenever I look at the earth it's blue and green mostly. It's just plain stupidity if you think it's the earth's reflection.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 09:11:32 AM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:12:53 AM
Quote
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

No. Because when I do that I am staring directly into a reflective surface.

When I look up at the sky I do see a reflective surface.

Your analogies are terrible.

Quote
Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

I'll see some wallpaper being lit on fire by a torch.......reflected in a mirror?

Makes zero sense.
Put your torch behind a pattered wall paper opposite the mirror in a dark room and then look into the mirror and tell me what you see.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:14:42 AM
I see wallpaper with light behind it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Quote
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

You're really of the chart, aren't you? Whenever I look in the mirror I see myself in clear details. It ressembles me. Although I can't be sure of my face, it does show the clothes I wear, etc. You're saying the moon is a reflection of the earth. I've never seen the amount of craters on earth which I see on the surface of the moon. The moon is all grey, while whenever I look at the earth it's blue and green mostly. It's just plain stupidity if you think it's the earth's reflection.
Is the Sahara desert blue and green?
What about ice covered land?
What about the oceans?

You've only seen what you can afford or are allowed to see, or is as close as you'll ever see without threatening your existence due to massive atmospheric change.
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:17:43 AM
I see wallpaper with light behind it.
So what do you think you might see off a perfect dome mirror, against blackness?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:18:02 AM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:18:37 AM
Quote
So what do you think you might see off a perfect dome mirror, against blackness?

I don't know. Find me one and I'll tell you.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:19:33 AM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:23:17 AM
Why Do We Only See One Side of the Moon?
You may have heard references made to the "dark side" of the Moon. This popular, although somewhat inaccurate term refers to the fact that only one face of the Moon, the "near side", is visible to us. The dark side or far side is permanently rotated away from our planet.

Why is this the case? We all know that the Earth rotates on its own axis, so theoretically, the Moon should also do the same, allowing us to get a full picture of the planetoid. Why are we limited to seeing only 50 percent? It turns out that the speed at which the Moon rotates has led to this particular phenomenon. Millions of years ago, the Moon spun at a much faster pace than it does now. However, the gravitational influence of the Earth has gradually acted upon the Moon to slow its rotation down, in the same way that the much smaller gravitational influence of the Moon acts upon the Earth to create tides. This influence slowed the rotational period of the Moon to match that of its orbit – about 29.5 days – and it is now "locked in" to this period.

If the Moon didn't spin at all, then eventually it would show its far side to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit. However, since the rotational period is exactly the same as the orbital period, the same portion of the Moon's sphere is always facing the Earth.

Another interesting fact is that actually a little bit more than half of the Moon's surface is observable from Earth. Since the Moon's orbit is elliptical, and not circular, the speed of its orbital travel increases and decreases depending on how close it is to our planet. The rotational speed of the Moon is constant however – and this difference between orbital speed and rotational speed means that when the Moon is farthest from the Earth, its orbital speed slows down just enough to allow its rotational speed to overtake it, giving observers a small glimpse of the usually hidden area. The term for this "rocking" motion of the Moon is called libration and it allows for 59 percent of the Moon to be seen in total (over time).

Finally, the reason that the far side of the Moon is frequently referred to as the "dark side" is because many people mistakenly think that it never sees any light from the sun. This notion results from a misinterpretation of the fact that it is never illuminated so that it can be observed from Earth. In fact, since the Moon is constantly rotating on its own axis, there is no area of the planetoid which is in permanent darkness, and the far side of the Moon is only completely devoid of sunlight during a Full Moon – when the Sun is facing the Moon with the Earth in between.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 09:25:09 AM
Quote
It's a reflection of earth. Don;t get mixed up like others do and think I mean it's a reflection of earth that we live on, as in reflections of street lights and what not.
I mean it's a reflection of a weaker earth sun through earth crystal which would be abundant at the real centre of earths circle, the one we are told is the north pole and has been navigated, which in my opinion is a massive misdirection of the truth.

When viewing the moon through a high powered telescope you can see the texture of it's surface. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a reflection.
Have you ever seen the texture of your face in a mirror?
Is that hard to believe it's a reflection?

Try this:
Get a big mirror and a decent torch. Put some patterned wallpaper opposite the mirror and shine a light on the paper. Do this in the dark, so that your torch reflection rebounds back to the mirror and tell me what you see.

You're really of the chart, aren't you? Whenever I look in the mirror I see myself in clear details. It ressembles me. Although I can't be sure of my face, it does show the clothes I wear, etc. You're saying the moon is a reflection of the earth. I've never seen the amount of craters on earth which I see on the surface of the moon. The moon is all grey, while whenever I look at the earth it's blue and green mostly. It's just plain stupidity if you think it's the earth's reflection.
Is the Sahara desert blue and green?
What about ice covered land?
What about the oceans?

You've only seen what you can afford or are allowed to see, or is as close as you'll ever see without threatening your existence due to massive atmospheric change.
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

Is the Sahara desert grey?
Is ice covered land grey?
Are oceans grey?

No
No
No

Moon = not a reflection of the earth. Plain stupidity.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 09:27:11 AM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.

I can explain in words, but this video tells more than 1000 words. Only takes 2 minutes to watch. Pretty simple, uh? 
Why only one side of the moon is visible (http://#)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 07, 2013, 09:32:21 AM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

What?  It is still there.  Just click on the link of that quote.

Or, click here.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:33:51 AM
Why Do We Only See One Side of the Moon?
You may have heard references made to the "dark side" of the Moon. This popular, although somewhat inaccurate term refers to the fact that only one face of the Moon, the "near side", is visible to us. The dark side or far side is permanently rotated away from our planet.

Why is this the case? We all know that the Earth rotates on its own axis, so theoretically, the Moon should also do the same, allowing us to get a full picture of the planetoid. Why are we limited to seeing only 50 percent? It turns out that the speed at which the Moon rotates has led to this particular phenomenon. Millions of years ago, the Moon spun at a much faster pace than it does now. However, the gravitational influence of the Earth has gradually acted upon the Moon to slow its rotation down, in the same way that the much smaller gravitational influence of the Moon acts upon the Earth to create tides. This influence slowed the rotational period of the Moon to match that of its orbit – about 29.5 days – and it is now "locked in" to this period.

If the Moon didn't spin at all, then eventually it would show its far side to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit. However, since the rotational period is exactly the same as the orbital period, the same portion of the Moon's sphere is always facing the Earth.

Another interesting fact is that actually a little bit more than half of the Moon's surface is observable from Earth. Since the Moon's orbit is elliptical, and not circular, the speed of its orbital travel increases and decreases depending on how close it is to our planet. The rotational speed of the Moon is constant however – and this difference between orbital speed and rotational speed means that when the Moon is farthest from the Earth, its orbital speed slows down just enough to allow its rotational speed to overtake it, giving observers a small glimpse of the usually hidden area. The term for this "rocking" motion of the Moon is called libration and it allows for 59 percent of the Moon to be seen in total (over time).

Finally, the reason that the far side of the Moon is frequently referred to as the "dark side" is because many people mistakenly think that it never sees any light from the sun. This notion results from a misinterpretation of the fact that it is never illuminated so that it can be observed from Earth. In fact, since the Moon is constantly rotating on its own axis, there is no area of the planetoid which is in permanent darkness, and the far side of the Moon is only completely devoid of sunlight during a Full Moon – when the Sun is facing the Moon with the Earth in between.
If you believe all that, then nothing is ever going to change your mind. I'll deck out of this with you as your goal here is to push the rotating globe, not question it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 09:34:54 AM
Quote
If you believe all that, then nothing is ever going to change your mind. I'll deck out of this with you as your goal here is to push the rotating globe, not question it.

I don't see a logical reason to question it. Nor do I see anything factual that disputes it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.

I can explain in words, but this video tells more than 1000 words. Only takes 2 minutes to watch. Pretty simple, uh? 
Why only one side of the moon is visible (http://#)
I'm well aware of how they say it works. The question should be...why the hell people accept it. It makes no logical sense for the moon to do this. None whatsoever.
The reason is obvious. It's because it was made to fit, just like every other coincidence.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 09:37:32 AM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

What?  It is still there.  Just click on the link of that quote.

Or, click here.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774)

There is no diagram Jroa to show how this could be possible. If you talk nonsense about making a diagram which you don't make.....what other nonsense might you be telling?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 09:40:15 AM
Quote
If you believe all that, then nothing is ever going to change your mind. I'll deck out of this with you as your goal here is to push the rotating globe, not question it.

I don't see a logical reason to question it. Nor do I see anything factual that disputes it.
Fine, no problem here. You're not alone. There's many on here that absolutely refuse to question what's been put into their heads.
You carry on with the way you are going though, because all you will learn is exactly what you have already learned, which in my honest opinion, is bull crap.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 07, 2013, 09:51:58 AM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

What?  It is still there.  Just click on the link of that quote.

Or, click here.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774)

There is no diagram Jroa to show how this could be possible. If you talk nonsense about making a diagram which you don't make.....what other nonsense might you be telling?

Here.  Note that this is not to scale.

(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/jorroa5990/Screenshotfrom2013-11-07124207_zpsed08c10b.png)

Can you not see that the light has to pass through a lot more air when it is at an angle?

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 10:03:50 AM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

What?  It is still there.  Just click on the link of that quote.

Or, click here.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774)

There is no diagram Jroa to show how this could be possible. If you talk nonsense about making a diagram which you don't make.....what other nonsense might you be telling?

Here.  Note that this is not to scale.

(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/jorroa5990/Screenshotfrom2013-11-07124207_zpsed08c10b.png)

Can you not see that the light has to pass through a lot more air when it is at an angle?


Jroa, then why do I observe the sun just above the horizon? Exactly as you say. On a flat earth I wouldn't be able to see the sun near the horizon. It would be completely fogged in. Yet I can see the sun, the stars, the moon just above the horizon. Makes me wonder why I can't see other objects...

Here's my diagram..

(http://s12.postimg.org/3o7ndl4u5/curve.jpg)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on November 07, 2013, 10:12:15 AM
Light refracts as it passes through different density layers.  This causes the illusion that the sun is closer to the horizon than it is.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 10:30:53 AM
Light refracts as it passes through different density layers.  This causes the illusion that the sun is closer to the horizon than it is.

How did you determine that?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Salviati on November 07, 2013, 10:42:37 AM
Light refracts as it passes through different density layers.  This causes the illusion that the sun is closer to the horizon than it is.
It's the other way around. Refraction makes the sun appearing higher above the horizon than it is (and stars as well).

(http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/ekshiksha/images_human_eye_10/figure_9.JPG)

Mind you, this works on a flat earth and on a round earth either.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 07, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
Light refracts as it passes through different density layers.  This causes the illusion that the sun is closer to the horizon than it is.
It's the other way around. Refraction makes the sun appearing higher above the horizon than it is (and stars as well).

(http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/ekshiksha/images_human_eye_10/figure_9.JPG)

Mind you, this works on a flat earth and on a round earth either.

Either way it still does not explain the things we observe. Jroa needs to come up with an answer...
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 11:51:48 AM
Quote
Fine, no problem here. You're not alone. There's many on here that absolutely refuse to question what's been put into their heads.
You carry on with the way you are going though, because all you will learn is exactly what you have already learned, which in my honest opinion, is bull crap.

When you say all I will learn is what I have already learned..................that is completely false.

We learn new things in the field of science constantly. Do you think the same theories that exist now were exactly the same 50 years ago? There is always something new to learn.

You are trying to say I'm close minded...........and all you're doing is successfully showing how stubborn and close minded you are yourself.

I don't see how you equate making up things like an ice dome and saying the moon is a reflection of the earth (downright ridiculous) into being an example of having an open mind and questioning things.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 11:58:44 AM
Quote
Fine, no problem here. You're not alone. There's many on here that absolutely refuse to question what's been put into their heads.
You carry on with the way you are going though, because all you will learn is exactly what you have already learned, which in my honest opinion, is bull crap.

When you say all I will learn is what I have already learned..................that is completely false.

We learn new things in the field of science constantly. Do you think the same theories that exist now were exactly the same 50 years ago? There is always something new to learn.

You are trying to say I'm close minded...........and all you're doing is successfully showing how stubborn and close minded you are yourself.

I don't see how you equate making up things like an ice dome and saying the moon is a reflection of the earth (downright ridiculous) into being an example of having an open mind and questioning things.
I've been there and questioned them all to come to where I am. What have you done, other than to simply, accept what science books tell you?
If I was closed minded, I would stick rigidly to one thing, like you're doing, yet I'm still open to correction on my thoughts, to a certain extent.
What I'm not open to, is having my mind changed from an ice dome, because I'm certain in my own mind that we do live under one.
I'm also 1 million per cent certain that the earth is not a Rotating ball in a vacuum of what we are told, space is.
I could go on and on, but you get the picture.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 12:10:09 PM
Quote
I've been there and questioned them all to come to where I am. What have you done, other than to simply, accept what science books tell you?

Why do you automatically assume I accept what science books tell me?

Wouldn't someone with an open mind not make such assumptions?

Quote
If I was closed minded, I would stick rigidly to one thing, like you're doing, yet I'm still open to correction on my thoughts, to a certain extent.

You mean like rigidly rejecting mainstream science..........saying there is nothing in space but blackness...........and saying man has never been to space?

Would those be examples of being rigid and close minded?

Quote
What I'm not open to, is having my mind changed from an ice dome, because I'm certain in my own mind that we do live under one.

There is nothing to suggest your idea is true.

Absolutely nothing.

Quote
I'm also 1 million per cent certain that the earth is not a Rotating ball in a vacuum of what we are told, space is.

Yet you are clearly open minded.

Quote
I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

I don't actually. To be truthful.

I have no idea, outside of just wanting to be different, how someone would come up with the ideas you have.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 07, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
Quote
I've been there and questioned them all to come to where I am. What have you done, other than to simply, accept what science books tell you?

Why do you automatically assume I accept what science books tell me?

Wouldn't someone with an open mind not make such assumptions?

Quote
If I was closed minded, I would stick rigidly to one thing, like you're doing, yet I'm still open to correction on my thoughts, to a certain extent.

You mean like rigidly rejecting mainstream science..........saying there is nothing in space but blackness...........and saying man has never been to space?

Would those be examples of being rigid and close minded?

Quote
What I'm not open to, is having my mind changed from an ice dome, because I'm certain in my own mind that we do live under one.

There is nothing to suggest your idea is true.

Absolutely nothing.

Quote
I'm also 1 million per cent certain that the earth is not a Rotating ball in a vacuum of what we are told, space is.

Yet you are clearly open minded.

Quote
I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

I don't actually. To be truthful.

I have no idea, outside of just wanting to be different, how someone would come up with the ideas you have.
If I keep telling you I have a Labrador but you have never witnessed it for yourself, yet you see me buying a few large tins of dog meat that happen to have a Labradors face on the label and a massive bag of mixer that also has a Labradors face on the packaging, it will go a long way into making your mind up that I have a Labrador.
If I then go on to buying the largest dog basket in the store, then you will see enough information that convinces you that I do actually have a Labrador.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that my dog is a Yorkshire terrier, then you are going to tell that person that he's dead wrong, because you have seen the evidence that my dog is indeed a Labrador or at least a large breed of dog.

This is what's happening to you people when you get shown pictures of earth and get told it's a ball that is rotating.
When someone tells you it's not, you say you have enough evidence to convince you.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: InquiringMind on November 07, 2013, 03:01:15 PM
Quote
If I keep telling you I have a Labrador but you have never witnessed it for yourself, yet you see me buying a few large tins of dog meat that happen to have a Labradors face on the label and a massive bag of mixer that also has a Labradors face on the packaging, it will go a long way into making your mind up that I have a Labrador.
If I then go on to buying the largest dog basket in the store, then you will see enough information that convinces you that I do actually have a Labrador.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that my dog is a Yorkshire terrier, then you are going to tell that person that he's dead wrong, because you have seen the evidence that my dog is indeed a Labrador or at least a large breed of dog.

Great story.

Completely pointless, however.

Because in this story........would literally billions of people have the chance to question whether or not you actually had a dog at all? No.

Yet all of us can take it upon ourselves to study science and see where flaws may lie.

There are a ton of scientist in the world. And not all of them work for government agencies. I'd pay you any amount of money to find that that believes in an ice dome or flat earth.

Quote
This is what's happening to you people when you get shown pictures of earth and get told it's a ball that is rotating.
When someone tells you it's not, you say you have enough evidence to convince you.

Yeah I guess I should just reject good sound evidence and instead make my own stuff up instead. Because that makes far more sense.

You don't have an open mind. You just think you do.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 07, 2013, 06:00:53 PM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.
Because it takes the same amount of time to rotate as it does to orbit.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 07, 2013, 06:05:53 PM
Quote
It's naive to think that you've seen all there is to see.

It's ridiculous to think the moon could be a reflection of the earth.

Completely defies logic.
I'll tell you what defies logic. A rotating earth and yet a moon that shows one face to us.
Ask yourself why it only shows one face.

I can explain in words, but this video tells more than 1000 words. Only takes 2 minutes to watch. Pretty simple, uh? 
Why only one side of the moon is visible (http://#)
I'm well aware of how they say it works. The question should be...why the hell people accept it. It makes no logical sense for the moon to do this. None whatsoever.
The reason is obvious. It's because it was made to fit, just like every other coincidence.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. You can say it's wrong all day but it won't change the fact that you don't have any evidence that it's wrong and have no evidence your ideas are correct. Why have you not done any experiments to test you ideas? How can you be so sure of them otherwise.

RE has evidence like this, which all you have done is ignore.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60071.0.html (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60071.0.html)
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59240.0.html (http://www.theflatearthforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,59240.0.html)
Okay just answer these two links. You haven't even responded yo these two yet.
Okay let me make this easier for you Sceptimatic by telling you what these are. The first is the Estov effect. An effect where objects travelling in the same direction as the earth rotates weighing less then objects travelling in the opposite direction due to centrifugal forces.
The second one is where someone DOES AN EXPERIMENT finds that they are able to see less of a mountain at further distances due to the earth's curvature.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 07, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
Don Quichotte , I thought you were waiting for a reply from jroa to "make you look not so good" ? Did I miss something ? I haven't seen a reply from jroa on my computer ?

That is right. I am still waiting. Get the sense he promised a diagram he can't make...but let's not grow too impatient. I will remind him if he doesn't keep his promise. As for the reply. 11cookeaw1 quoted Jroa's reply, which is no longer there. I responded to that deleted message.

What?  It is still there.  Just click on the link of that quote.

Or, click here.  http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,60382.msg1561774.html#msg1561774)

There is no diagram Jroa to show how this could be possible. If you talk nonsense about making a diagram which you don't make.....what other nonsense might you be telling?

Here.  Note that this is not to scale.

(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/jorroa5990/Screenshotfrom2013-11-07124207_zpsed08c10b.png)

Can you not see that the light has to pass through a lot more air when it is at an angle?

Don Quichotte, please stop making stuff up.

On a flat Earth, when the sun, or other celestial object, is directly overhead, it's light is only traveling through a few miles of atmoplane.  When it is at a significant angle, the light must pass through thousands of miles of atmoplane.  Do you need for me to draw you a diagram?  Can you really not understand this?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59073.60 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59073.60) here we have 100 miles or 160 kilometres of view at sea level. When it's right above the sunlight has to travel through the equivalent of approximately 8 kilometres of 5 miles of sea level air. Going by the FE sun distance of 3000 miles, to travel through the equivalent of 100 miles or 160 kilometres of sea level air the horizontal distance have have to be approximately 60000 miles, this many times further then it ever gets.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Don Quichotte on November 08, 2013, 11:34:31 AM
Jroa, you still haven't shown a diagram that works.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: squevil on November 09, 2013, 11:58:46 PM
Place a cloud behind the observer. Then explain how that lit up at sun rise before you see the sun. Place the cloud so the observer is in the middle. I have my own idea how this can work. I'm just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on November 22, 2013, 10:55:03 PM
You could see as far as history goes back, to the 'Cosmic Dawn'

This is a picture of stars (galaxies, actually) that are 13.5 billion light years away.  A terrestrial telescope is able to see it, too. Chile telescope, hawaii telescope and a couple of non-terrestrial NASA telescopes: spitzer and hubble.

(http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/spitzer/20131121/pia17558-640.jpg)

So why does the sun disappear while at the same time stars are visible on the horizon?  Why aren't foggy days shorter?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on November 23, 2013, 03:53:56 AM
You could see as far as history goes back, to the 'Cosmic Dawn'

This is a picture of stars (galaxies, actually) that are 13.5 billion light years away.  A terrestrial telescope is able to see it, too. Chile telescope, hawaii telescope and a couple of non-terrestrial NASA telescopes: spitzer and hubble.

(http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/spitzer/20131121/pia17558-640.jpg)

So why does the sun disappear while at the same time stars are visible on the horizon?  Why aren't foggy days shorter?
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: squevil on November 23, 2013, 06:39:57 AM
Well when you think about it, it means its really really far away. So far you cant measure it in miles. The most reasonable way to measure it is to use a measurement based on the distance light travels in 1 year.
Well I thought about it and my mind is blown  :o
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on November 23, 2013, 06:46:15 AM
Have a think on it. How anything be that far away with an invisible ice dome no one has ever seen and no one actually believes in being up in the sky?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 11cookeaw1 on November 23, 2013, 07:10:28 AM
You could see as far as history goes back, to the 'Cosmic Dawn'

This is a picture of stars (galaxies, actually) that are 13.5 billion light years away.  A terrestrial telescope is able to see it, too. Chile telescope, hawaii telescope and a couple of non-terrestrial NASA telescopes: spitzer and hubble.

(http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/spitzer/20131121/pia17558-640.jpg)

So why does the sun disappear while at the same time stars are visible on the horizon?  Why aren't foggy days shorter?
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
To an ant, a person is impossibly large. But we still exist.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on November 23, 2013, 09:45:00 AM
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
Don't understand the concept of a light year, or can't comprehend the distance?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl on November 23, 2013, 02:49:26 PM
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
Don't understand the concept of a light year, or can't comprehend the distance?
Maybe he/she/it thinks a ly is a measurement of time.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: markjo on November 23, 2013, 03:47:43 PM
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
Don't understand the concept of a light year, or can't comprehend the distance?
Maybe he/she/it thinks a ly is a measurement of time.
Well, one could argue that, in some ways, a light year could be used as a measure of time.  After all, when you say that a galaxy is 13.5  billion light years away, you're also saying that you are looking at that galaxy as it was 13.5 billion years ago because it took that long for its light to reach us.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl on November 23, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.
Don't understand the concept of a light year, or can't comprehend the distance?
Maybe he/she/it thinks a ly is a measurement of time.
Well, one could argue that, in some ways, a light year could be used as a measure of time.  After all, when you say that a galaxy is 13.5  billion light years away, you're also saying that you are looking at that galaxy as it was 13.5 billion years ago because it took that long for its light to reach us.

Still, that's the age of the light you observe, not the actual object. Also my point was that ly isn't a unit of time. If light has travelled x ly, it is y [unit] old.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 15, 2013, 07:15:00 PM
You could see as far as history goes back, to the 'Cosmic Dawn'

This is a picture of stars (galaxies, actually) that are 13.5 billion light years away.  A terrestrial telescope is able to see it, too. Chile telescope, hawaii telescope and a couple of non-terrestrial NASA telescopes: spitzer and hubble.

(http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/spitzer/20131121/pia17558-640.jpg)

So why does the sun disappear while at the same time stars are visible on the horizon?  Why aren't foggy days shorter?
I feel sorry for you believing all this stuff. I have no doubt you're intelligent, but your naivety is in abundance.
13.5 billion light years away? have a serious think about what you are saying.

Okay, I had a serious think about what I was saying.

The title of this thread is "how far could you see?"  I was answering you could see as far as history goes back.  If we could teleport a camera as far as we wanted, we'd put that camera 4.5 billion light years away and then we could see the planet forming. We could put that camera 13.8 billion light years away and we could watch the big bang.

If you can reach a spot in the universe where light has not traveled to then you are farther in light years than time goes back.

The limit is our point of view, not light's inability to travel great distances.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 06:01:50 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
Yes,yes, I know, I know, but, but, it's not true, you can see into the past, you see stars as they WERE hundreds/thousands/millions or whatever years ago, because that's how long it takes the light to reach your eyes.

Have a word will you all, because it's getting beyond ridiculous, the amount of brainwashing you lot are willing to accept.

I'll give you a plain...LOGICAL and SIMPLE and EASY way to understand. Will you grasp it?...will you accept it?.... No you won't, because science has told you the big fabricated stories and that's amazing enough for you lot, but here goes.

When you see a car move away from you at night, with it's lights on...you see that car and it's lights get further away....BUT...you are seeing them AS IS, not as it was in the past.
If the car stopped a mile up the road, you see the light from that point, meaning, you see the light of that car at say 12.00 pm just as the person in that car will see 12.00 pm on his/her clock.

The point of light we see is the point of light directly from the source. The rest of it is scattered light around us.
The sooner people get this stupid notion that light has a set speed, out of their heads, they might and I say MIGHT start to see the real logic in science, instead of believing you are smarter than the average bear because you can reel off pathetic numbers and equations, supposedly to describe a whole lot of absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 16, 2013, 06:50:49 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
Yes,yes, I know, I know, but, but, it's not true, you can see into the past, you see stars as they WERE hundreds/thousands/millions or whatever years ago, because that's how long it takes the light to reach your eyes.

Have a word will you all, because it's getting beyond ridiculous, the amount of brainwashing you lot are willing to accept.

I'll give you a plain...LOGICAL and SIMPLE and EASY way to understand. Will you grasp it?...will you accept it?.... No you won't, because science has told you the big fabricated stories and that's amazing enough for you lot, but here goes.

When you see a car move away from you at night, with it's lights on...you see that car and it's lights get further away....BUT...you are seeing them AS IS, not as it was in the past.
If the car stopped a mile up the road, you see the light from that point, meaning, you see the light of that car at say 12.00 pm just as the person in that car will see 12.00 pm on his/her clock.

The point of light we see is the point of light directly from the source. The rest of it is scattered light around us.
The sooner people get this stupid notion that light has a set speed, out of their heads, they might and I say MIGHT start to see the real logic in science, instead of believing you are smarter than the average bear because you can reel off pathetic numbers and equations, supposedly to describe a whole lot of absolute nonsense.

Sooo... if it's instant then you couldn't actually see it traveling right?

The people at MIT are just in on the Conspiracy I suppose.

Visualizing video at the speed of light — one trillion frames per second (http://#ws)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: markjo on December 16, 2013, 06:57:42 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 07:02:41 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Try reading what I said and absorb it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 16, 2013, 07:38:37 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Try reading what I said and absorb it.

Did you watch the video?

Is light instantaneous?  Or can it be observed in motion?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Try reading what I said and absorb it.

Did you watch the video?

Is light instantaneous?  Or can it be observed in motion?
It is instantaneous to your eye.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 16, 2013, 07:50:04 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Try reading what I said and absorb it.

Did you watch the video?

Is light instantaneous?  Or can it be observed in motion?
It is instantaneous to your eye.

That doesn't answer if light is instantaneous.

Some things are invisible to our eyes. Does that mean nothing can see them?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 07:53:27 AM
Look! what you see is what you see....NOW!
You don't see anything in the past you see it as is.
As I recall, you agree that light travels at a finite speed, don't you?  I also seem to recall you believing that light travels significantly slower than the scientifically accepted 186,000 miles per second, correct?  If so, then you must agree that it takes time for light to move from its source (the object that you're looking at) to its destination (the retina of your eye).  Granted, this is usually a very, very small amount of time and you could say that it might just as well be zero, but it isn't.  The further away the light source, the longer it takes for the light to reach your eye.  That means that if you agree that light has a finite speed and it takes time time to reach your eye, then you must agree that you are, indeed, looking into the past whenever you look at something, even if that past is only a very tiny fraction of a second ago.
Try reading what I said and absorb it.

Did you watch the video?

Is light instantaneous?  Or can it be observed in motion?
It is instantaneous to your eye.

That doesn't answer if light is instantaneous.

Some things are invisible to our eyes. Does that mean nothing can see them?
Let's try and see if I can get through to you.
As human beings, all we have is our eyes, to SEE. Whether it's by looking through a glass or by naked eye...this is what we have.

What we see is as, IS, not as WAS.
If you see a so called light that you think is a star, it's because you see the point of light from that so called star, AS IS, as it is NOW, not as it was so many years ago.

Wake the hell up for crying out loud.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 16, 2013, 08:00:49 AM
Let's try something.

Do you own a remote control and a smart phone? In this example I'm only sure about an iPhone working but maybe other technology works, too.

Look at the remote signal emitter thing on the front and press some buttons. Do you see anything?

What your eye sees is "AS IS" am I right or am I right?

Okay now get out your smartphone, webcam, w/e. Aim your remote control at the camera, look at the display and press some buttons.  See a light?  Didn't see that light before did you?

Maybe your eyes don't detect everything "AS IS"!

http://www.wikihow.com/Check-if-a-Remote-Control-is-Transmitting-an-Infrared-Signal (http://www.wikihow.com/Check-if-a-Remote-Control-is-Transmitting-an-Infrared-Signal)
(http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thumb/6/60/Check-if-a-Remote-Control-is-Transmitting-an-Infrared-Signal-Step-6.jpg/670px-Check-if-a-Remote-Control-is-Transmitting-an-Infrared-Signal-Step-6.jpg)

P.S. "all we have is our eyes, to SEE"?? You know there's a lot of technology that's been invented in the last 400 years.  Plus, there's a lot of people running around with cameras and stuff...  I'm pretty sure we have advanced beyond just our two eyes.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 08:29:54 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: FlatOrange on December 16, 2013, 08:52:36 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.
So you have no concept of what a photon is? Light is emitted like bullets.  Yes, if you turn on your light and then turn it off there will still be light traveling out of it to distant eyes. Those distant eyes will not be in sync with your eyes.

The only thing embarrassing when an educated adult debates with a child is that the adult keeps trying.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 16, 2013, 09:12:36 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.
So you have no concept of what a photon is? Light is emitted like bullets.  Yes, if you turn on your light and then turn it off there will still be light traveling out of it to distant eyes. Those distant eyes will not be in sync with your eyes.

The only thing embarrassing when an educated adult debates with a child is that the adult keeps trying.
You're certainly not educated. You are simply brainwashed. I agree though, you most probably are a child, which would make sense and I suppose I have to let you off the hook as far as being naive goes, because it's not your fault, but when you grow up, try and use your brain.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 09:34:50 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 16, 2013, 09:44:43 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.

do does that mean you think sound travels instantaneously too?

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 16, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 10:21:32 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.

do does that mean you think sound travels instantaneously too?
Sound is a vibration frequency, it either creates an audible (to us) noise or a visible (to us) light.
From wherever it occurs, as long as the frequency is consistent, then you will hear or see it as that consistency..
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 10:22:23 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 16, 2013, 10:31:01 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 16, 2013, 10:47:57 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
There is a remarkable difference between seeing and hearing. You see light from it's original point but the sound comes first that created that light, except that your eyes see it before your ear drums are vibrated, assuming it's within your range.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: inquisitive on December 16, 2013, 11:40:19 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
There is a remarkable difference between seeing and hearing. You see light from it's original point but the sound comes first that created that light, except that your eyes see it before your ear drums are vibrated, assuming it's within your range.

So why is there a delay between seeing a lightening flash and hearing thunder?  Or fireworks in the distance.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 16, 2013, 11:42:37 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
There is a remarkable difference between seeing and hearing. You see light from it's original point but the sound comes first that created that light, except that your eyes see it before your ear drums are vibrated, assuming it's within your range.
Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 16, 2013, 01:45:21 PM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.
We know this statement to be 100% false. It's not debatable.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 16, 2013, 01:46:58 PM
We know this statement to be 100% false. It's not debatable.

I wasn't aware that was a problem on here?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 16, 2013, 02:00:49 PM
We know this statement to be 100% false. It's not debatable.

I wasn't aware that was a problem on here?
While true, some things he says are more outlandish than others.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 17, 2013, 01:14:40 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
There is a remarkable difference between seeing and hearing. You see light from it's original point but the sound comes first that created that light, except that your eyes see it before your ear drums are vibrated, assuming it's within your range.
Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 17, 2013, 01:15:50 AM
You're just not getting it, are you.
I'm not interested in what your eyes can't see. We don't look up at the sky and say, "oh look, I can't see that so called star light" do we?
Whether you put an optic or an object that makes light visible to our eye, it's still, AS IS, always.

As long as there is light creating energy, there will be light. Let m see if I can explain.

If I was stood (hypothetically) on a distant (so called) star and all time in your so called universe was the same time. You would see my star from 12.00 pm (for instance) from your EYE point of view and I would see your star from 12.00 pm from my EYE point of view.
The only difference is, if I was to then travel towards your light, it would take an amount of time for me to physically reach you, as it would you to reach me.

The second light energy stops, so does any persons point of view.
If I were to switch off my light, no matter where it was in distance to your eye, you would see it disappear the moment I stop the energy that emits it. You certainly wouldn't go on seeing it for years later after I'd turned it off, so stop being so naive because it's embarrassing.

what about sound?

Is that the same or does that travel?

In fact is there anything else in the world that acts like you suggest light does?
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.
We know this statement to be 100% false. It's not debatable.
You stick to your mixing water solubles and stuff.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 17, 2013, 01:28:40 AM
Scepti, I seem to recall you stating light and sound propagated the same way.

If so, how is one instantaneous over any distance, while the other travels a mere 767mph?
There is a remarkable difference in seeing and hearing.
does that mean you think the time delay in sound occurs in our ears or between there and the brain?

Or that you know sound takes time to travel between two points.
There is a remarkable difference between seeing and hearing. You see light from it's original point but the sound comes first that created that light, except that your eyes see it before your ear drums are vibrated, assuming it's within your range.

So why is there a delay between seeing a lightening flash and hearing thunder?  Or fireworks in the distance.
Look through the air. You are looking through molecules that reflect light and your eyes see that from whichever point it originates.
The sound waves that produced the flash take longer to register in your ear drum and hammer.

It's like someone throwing a stone at your head. You see the stone before you feel the hit, assuming you're looking in that direction.
This earth isn't as complicated as is made out. Anything on this earth as in science can be broken down into its simplest form to show people just how it all works, but it will never happen this way because the dumbed down are dumbed down for a reason and it includes you.
Of course, you can sit there and believe you are super clever because you believe you know this and that. The only things you can verify are the things you can perform yourself and produce yourself that you can PHYSICALLY 100% say is correct.
This is very little in the grand scheme of things.
Sure, you know that mixing this with that produces a reaction of whatever but you do NOT know, Yourself what the hell the speed of light is or anything like this. All you know, is what you have been brainwashed to accept.
Admit it or not, it makes no difference to me. I know I'm telling the truth.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 17, 2013, 10:44:57 AM

Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

So are you saying light doesn't travel by vibration through air?  Because in another thread not long ago you said the following:


Light is super agitated sound vibrations.

and
Does the light/sound from an event travel the same speed across a distance to reach me? 

Yes or no.
The simple answer is yes. The only difference is seeing the effect of the frequency to hearing the effect of that frequency.

and
Light waves can be polarized..........sound waves can't.
Explain.
Not the same thing.
They are the same thing.

and
Quote
So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.
They are exactly the same thing. Light is sound, it's the end product of sound.

and regarding light being instantaneous...
You are still going to see light when travelling at any speed if you are heading towards it. Going away from  it is a different matter as the light will fade to nothing from your sight.
which would mean it's possible to travel faster than light, through air, since you claim perfect vaccuum does not exist.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 17, 2013, 11:32:36 AM

Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

So are you saying light doesn't travel by vibration through air?  Because in another thread not long ago you said the following:


Light is super agitated sound vibrations.

and
Does the light/sound from an event travel the same speed across a distance to reach me? 

Yes or no.
The simple answer is yes. The only difference is seeing the effect of the frequency to hearing the effect of that frequency.

and
Light waves can be polarized..........sound waves can't.
Explain.
Not the same thing.
They are the same thing.

and
Quote
So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.
They are exactly the same thing. Light is sound, it's the end product of sound.

and regarding light being instantaneous...
You are still going to see light when travelling at any speed if you are heading towards it. Going away from  it is a different matter as the light will fade to nothing from your sight.
which would mean it's possible to travel faster than light, through air, since you claim perfect vaccuum does not exist.
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 17, 2013, 01:36:19 PM

Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

So are you saying light doesn't travel by vibration through air?  Because in another thread not long ago you said the following:


Light is super agitated sound vibrations.

and
Does the light/sound from an event travel the same speed across a distance to reach me? 

Yes or no.
The simple answer is yes. The only difference is seeing the effect of the frequency to hearing the effect of that frequency.

and
Light waves can be polarized..........sound waves can't.
Explain.
Not the same thing.
They are the same thing.

and
Quote
So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.
They are exactly the same thing. Light is sound, it's the end product of sound.

and regarding light being instantaneous...
You are still going to see light when travelling at any speed if you are heading towards it. Going away from  it is a different matter as the light will fade to nothing from your sight.
which would mean it's possible to travel faster than light, through air, since you claim perfect vaccuum does not exist.
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
You are dumb and you say dumb things.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 17, 2013, 03:34:43 PM

Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

So are you saying light doesn't travel by vibration through air?  Because in another thread not long ago you said the following:


Light is super agitated sound vibrations.

and
Does the light/sound from an event travel the same speed across a distance to reach me? 

Yes or no.
The simple answer is yes. The only difference is seeing the effect of the frequency to hearing the effect of that frequency.

and
Light waves can be polarized..........sound waves can't.
Explain.
Not the same thing.
They are the same thing.

and
Quote
So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.
They are exactly the same thing. Light is sound, it's the end product of sound.

and regarding light being instantaneous...
You are still going to see light when travelling at any speed if you are heading towards it. Going away from  it is a different matter as the light will fade to nothing from your sight.
which would mean it's possible to travel faster than light, through air, since you claim perfect vaccuum does not exist.
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
You are dumb and you say dumb things.
Typical ginger response, lol.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 17, 2013, 03:48:24 PM

You are dumb and you say dumb things.
Typical ginger response, lol.
Cool.
How should I have responded? Anyone who read 29silhouette post containing your quotes know you are dumb. I just said it, we are all thinking it.
The whole field of spectroscopy shows just how wrong you are. I mean, you are not even remotely close to being correct. I'm not quite sure why we even have to argue this. I'm not putting any effort into in and others shouldn't either. You are just wasting their time.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 17, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
Just pondering your contradictions. 

You say light and sound are the same thing, but also claim they're different.  You also claim light travels instantaneously over any given distance unlike sound, but that it also travels the same way as sound in addition to reflecting off particles between the source and one's eyes, even that one could outrun light.  Have a word will you.

Quote
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
I look forward to it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 18, 2013, 04:59:05 AM

You are dumb and you say dumb things.
Typical ginger response, lol.
Cool.
How should I have responded? Anyone who read 29silhouette post containing your quotes know you are dumb. I just said it, we are all thinking it.
The whole field of spectroscopy shows just how wrong you are. I mean, you are not even remotely close to being correct. I'm not quite sure why we even have to argue this. I'm not putting any effort into in and others shouldn't either. You are just wasting their time.
At least try and put some effort in or just keep your ginger nut out instead of crying like a little kid. ;)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 18, 2013, 04:59:57 AM
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
Just pondering your contradictions. 

You say light and sound are the same thing, but also claim they're different.  You also claim light travels instantaneously over any given distance unlike sound, but that it also travels the same way as sound in addition to reflecting off particles between the source and one's eyes, even that one could outrun light.  Have a word will you.

Quote
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
I look forward to it.
No contradictions here, kid.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 18, 2013, 05:19:49 AM
Scepti is not contradicting himself.  They ARE the same thing but we perceive them differently.  Just like all humans are essentially the same, but each is perceived differently.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 18, 2013, 05:29:57 AM
Can someone please post a video showing light propagating in a vacuum chamber (with no lights on in the room the chamber is in)?  Why is it so hard to find this online?  Everywhere I look, they use the sun as an example but I want to see evidence of it in a lab.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 18, 2013, 06:20:33 AM
Can someone please post a video showing light propagating in a vacuum chamber (with no lights on in the room the chamber is in)?  Why is it so hard to find this online?  Everywhere I look, they use the sun as an example but I want to see evidence of it in a lab.

Have you seen any pictures or videos of a vacuum chamber where you can see the inside of the chamber?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 18, 2013, 08:56:32 AM
In a vacuum chamber with the air sucked out in a room with no lights on?  Nope.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 18, 2013, 09:40:27 AM
Even if it's not a 100% absolute vacuum?  Because scepti will be along to inform us the remaining air molecules only expanded to fill the void, therefor it's not a true vacuum, thus allowing light to propagate through the chamber, and you seem to always agree with scepti.

Anyway, typing "light inside a vacuum chamber" in youtube brought up some examples of a light source of some kind or another emanating from inside a vacuum chamber.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 18, 2013, 10:14:58 AM
29,
Plasma is the only thing I've seen.  Why can't people show a simple flashlight inside one?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 18, 2013, 11:24:09 AM
It's light isn't it?

I saw one on the first page with a standard overhead light from when James May of Top Gear was getting ready for a high altitude flight.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 18, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
29,
Plasma is the only thing I've seen.  Why can't people show a simple flashlight inside one?
so you've SEEN plasma in a vacuum chamber?

So how do you think sight works?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 18, 2013, 01:31:05 PM

You are dumb and you say dumb things.
Typical ginger response, lol.
Cool.
How should I have responded? Anyone who read 29silhouette post containing your quotes know you are dumb. I just said it, we are all thinking it.
The whole field of spectroscopy shows just how wrong you are. I mean, you are not even remotely close to being correct. I'm not quite sure why we even have to argue this. I'm not putting any effort into in and others shouldn't either. You are just wasting their time.
At least try and put some effort in or just keep your ginger nut out instead of crying like a little kid. ;)
Crying? I have a degree and I make 5 times as much as you. Why would I be crying? You greatly overestimate yourself.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 18, 2013, 04:44:34 PM

Does light travel the same way as sound?  Yes or no.
No.
They are the exact same thing as in, you cannot produce light without first producing vibration/agitation/sound, but they do not act in the same manner to your perception.

So are you saying light doesn't travel by vibration through air?  Because in another thread not long ago you said the following:


Light is super agitated sound vibrations.

and
Does the light/sound from an event travel the same speed across a distance to reach me? 

Yes or no.
The simple answer is yes. The only difference is seeing the effect of the frequency to hearing the effect of that frequency.

and
Light waves can be polarized..........sound waves can't.
Explain.
Not the same thing.
They are the same thing.

and
Quote
So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.
They are exactly the same thing. Light is sound, it's the end product of sound.

and regarding light being instantaneous...
You are still going to see light when travelling at any speed if you are heading towards it. Going away from  it is a different matter as the light will fade to nothing from your sight.
which would mean it's possible to travel faster than light, through air, since you claim perfect vaccuum does not exist.
Why do you spend so much time on attempting to trip me up when clearly you are not doing that.
I think I'll just play games with you, that's all you're worth.
You are dumb and you say dumb things.

I have a theory about sceptimatic.:
IMHO He (or She ?) is a very smart person who has developed a knack for coming up with the dumbest things of which he can think or imagine.  Of course this is just my "IMHO". LOL. I think I read somewhere that the FES disowns him (or her ?) and claims no part in him (or her ?).
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 18, 2013, 05:12:42 PM

I have a theory about sceptimatic.:
IMHO He (or She ?) is a very smart person who has developed a knack for coming up with the dumbest things of which he can think or imagine.  Of course this is just my "IMHO". LOL. I think I read somewhere that the FES disowns him (or her ?) and claims no part in him (or her ?).
I used to think it was a shared account where anyone could log in as sceptimatic and then try would try and top each other and post the most dumb thing possible.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: hoppy on December 18, 2013, 08:08:35 PM

I have a theory about sceptimatic.:
IMHO He (or She ?) is a very smart person who has developed a knack for coming up with the dumbest things of which he can think or imagine.  Of course this is just my "IMHO". LOL. I think I read somewhere that the FES disowns him (or her ?) and claims no part in him (or her ?).
I used to think it was a shared account where anyone could log in as sceptimatic and then try would try and top each other and post the most dumb thing possible.
Incorrect, sokarul is the shared account we use for that.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 07:29:48 AM
Well, what is really dumb, is that you guys continue to debate with him.   ::)
And that video of James May in the chamber has lights on outside the chamber too AND you know as well as I do that chamber is not evacuated as much as a chamber would be without a human inside it.  So, no it doesn't qualify.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 08:17:07 AM
And that video of James May in the chamber has lights on outside the chamber too AND you know as well as I do that chamber is not evacuated as much as a chamber would be without a human inside it.  So, no it doesn't qualify.

my point is that any chamber you can see inside has light in it.

Any video of anything in a vacuum chamber where you can see must have light in it.

Which is probably why there aren't videos of anything as boring as a mag-light in a vacuum chamber, i mean it would be exactly the same as a mag-light in a cardboard box.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 19, 2013, 09:12:16 AM
Well, what is really dumb, ........
What is really dumb is arguing the point that seeing the inside of a vacuum chamber illuminated from outside, and seeing things through a vacuum chamber, isn't proof light can propagate inside that vacuum chamber, and that a light source inside that vacuum chamber with the room darkened is the only way to prove it can.

If you think the light source won't be seen and that it will prove your master's theory, then obtain access to a vacuum chamber or build one.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 09:46:37 AM
Why not just show me a simple video instead of me having to go through all that trouble?  I'm not the one saying that light propagates inside a vacuum. Just because scientists tell me the sun is proof of it, means nothing to me because I don't buy what they sell.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 19, 2013, 09:57:22 AM
Why not just show me a simple video instead of me having to go through all that trouble?  I'm not the one saying that light propagates inside a vacuum. Just because scientists tell me the sun is proof of it, means nothing to me because I don't buy what they sell.
In all the videos of vacuum chambers operating you are able to find, are the objects inside visible?  Yes or no.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 10:06:28 AM
Light is sound. Light is the end product of sound.
Once again, scepti is right.  The sooner you all accept that, the less brainwashed you will be on your last day here on/inside Earth.  I understand it is very hard for some of you.  That's to be expected.  But I will continue with my positive outlook on humanity and KNOW that one day, the truth will reveal itself to all.

Even the bible (if you believe it) says God SPOKE the Earth into existence, which means it all started with SOUND:
http://www.wnd.com/2007/02/40054/ (http://www.wnd.com/2007/02/40054/)

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 10:14:06 AM
In all the videos of vacuum chambers operating you are able to find, are the objects inside visible?  Yes or no.
Yes because there is light on the OUTSIDE of the chamber.  Light obviously propagates through the air we breathe.  But that is not the same as light propagating INSIDE the chamber where there is extremely little air.  The light from outside the chamber is illuminating the inside of the chamber.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 19, 2013, 10:38:34 AM
In all the videos of vacuum chambers operating you are able to find, are the objects inside visible?  Yes or no.
Yes because there is light on the OUTSIDE of the chamber.  Light obviously propagates through the air we breathe.  But that is not the same as light propagating INSIDE the chamber where there is extremely little air.  The light from outside the chamber is illuminating the inside of the chamber.
There we have it folks, light propagating through a vacuum.  Mystery solved.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 11:39:26 AM
In all the videos of vacuum chambers operating you are able to find, are the objects inside visible?  Yes or no.
Yes because there is light on the OUTSIDE of the chamber.  Light obviously propagates through the air we breathe.  But that is not the same as light propagating INSIDE the chamber where there is extremely little air.  The light from outside the chamber is illuminating the inside of the chamber.

to illuminate things inside the chamber it MUST travel inside the chamber, reflect off the objects and travel back out to your eyes.

Even scepti will admit that's exactly how light works because that's what he's been arguing happens in discussions about ships and horizons.

It's also worth noting that an LED is an example of light in a vacuum.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 11:43:31 AM
But that's where you are misunderstanding.  How can you be sure it's not the glass (medium) that interacts with the light?  And Spank, an LED (or any light bulb) is making a sound which turns into light.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 11:50:55 AM
But that's where you are misunderstanding.  How can you be sure it's not the glass (medium) that interacts with the light?  And Spank, an LED (or any light bulb) is making a sound which turns into light.


Because the objects are inside the vacuum, if it was the glass then all you'd see would be the glass.


LED's are silent although that does raise the question of you believing that SOUND can travel in a vacuum?

really, sound but not light? that's your stance on the matter?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 12:03:55 PM
Human ears cannot hear sound coming from inside a vacuum chamber. Other creatures probably can. And yes light makes a sound even if you can't hear it.  It's all about frequency.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 12:11:29 PM
Human ears cannot hear sound coming from inside a vacuum chamber. Other creatures probably can. And yes light makes a sound even if you can't hear it.  It's all about frequency.

so again, sound CAN propagate through a vacuum...

but light CAN'T?

Just to clarify.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on December 19, 2013, 12:14:57 PM
Quote
How can you be sure it's not the glass (medium) that interacts with the light?

You are the dumbest person in the world. Sorry, but you are.

If it was just the glass..........your vision would end with the glass. You wouldn't see what is on the other side.

Pull your head out of scepti's ass.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 12:26:02 PM
I'm not even going to respond to your comment UM.
Spank, let me ask you this.  If you put a microphone INSIDE the chamber with a bell ringing and attached it to speakers on the outside of the chamber, could you hear it through the speakers?  My point is, what we perceive on the outside of the chamber is not the same as what is going on on the inside.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 12:32:30 PM
I'm not even going to respond to your comment UM.
Spank, let me ask you this.  If you put a microphone INSIDE the chamber with a bell ringing and attached it to speakers on the outside of the chamber, could you hear it through the speakers?
no. The microphone wouldnt pick up a sound unless there was direct contact with the bell, any gap would not allow sound transmission.

  My point is, what we perceive on the outside of the chamber is not the same as what is going on on the inside.

yes, yes it is.  If we can see an object in the chamber light must be passing into the chamber reflecting off the object and returning to your eyes.

a light inside the chamber would be no different to a light passing through he chamber and back out again.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 12:37:23 PM
By "direct contact", you mean touching it?  I meant next to it, inside the chamber.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 12:46:59 PM
By "direct contact", you mean touching it?  I meant next to it, inside the chamber.

in which case, as far as I'm aware, the microphone wouldn't pick anything up.

I'd still like a reply to my question with regard to your beliefs on light and sound propagation in the vacuum chamber, it seemed like you were saying sound could travel but light could not?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 01:19:16 PM
Well, I cannot answer that until I see undeniable evidence of light coming from INSIDE a vacuum chamber and a microphone in one with a bell.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 19, 2013, 01:21:33 PM
A simple experiment to show what sound is. I saw this experiment at Mall of America.
Bell in a Bell Jar (http://#)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 01:24:35 PM
Well, I cannot answer that until I see undeniable evidence of light coming from INSIDE a vacuum chamber and a microphone in one with a bell.

So you don't know?
Okay.

Well if you can see something inside a vacuum chamber then light is passing through it and coming out from inside.

I can see that bell in the post above so light must be able to pass through a vacuum.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Romrot on December 19, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
This question is directed at the flat earther only.
I do not believe the earth to be round and I feel  if I had a telescope with enough power I could see great distances maybe even other countries, does this fit with your beliefs?

how far you can see is irrelevant, you don't shoot a beam out of your eyes, your eyes accept light and translate it to images. at night you can see light-years away because the stars a just so bright. you aren't seeing light-years away, light travels from light-years away to make to you in the for of images, the lighting on earth is from heavenly bodies and shines down on it and the way light goes to you is very complicated, its all vectors and stuff which is hard for me to describe without an image. point... you have no limit to how far you can see, It all depends on lighting.  if the earth were truly flat I would see Wisconsin and Canada every time I visited the lake...yet I don't so
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 19, 2013, 03:37:02 PM
Quote
How can you be sure it's not the glass (medium) that interacts with the light?

You are the dumbest person in the world. Sorry, but you are.

If it was just the glass..........your vision would end with the glass. You wouldn't see what is on the other side.

Pull your head out of scepti's ass.
No, dick head, you and your round earth cronies are the ridiculously naive sheep that willingly walk forward to the cull.
Earthisaspaceship is clued up...something that most of you don't even know the meaning of the word.
It's worrying, it really is.
Bark all you want, you prat, but all you are, is a mental mainstream follower that believes that memorising bull crap, makes you intelligent. lol
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on December 19, 2013, 04:00:35 PM
Quote
No, dick head, you and your round earth cronies are the ridiculously naive sheep that willingly walk forward to the cull.

You shouldn't call people names. It's not polite.

Quote
Earthisaspaceship is clued up

Yes, clearly.

Quote
something that most of you don't even know the meaning of the word.
It's worrying, it really is.

Indeed.

The fact that so many people don't believe in a magic invisible ice wall and the moon being a reflection of the earth is disturbing. Truly.
Quote
Bark all you want, you prat, but all you are, is a mental mainstream follower that believes that memorising bull crap, makes you intelligent. lol

I guess if I really wanted to be intelligent I would just go on message boards and make up stuff that couldn't possibly be true and then call anyone that questions it sheep.

Yeah, that would make me super intelligent.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 19, 2013, 04:13:41 PM
Quote
How can you be sure it's not the glass (medium) that interacts with the light?

You are the dumbest person in the world. Sorry, but you are.

If it was just the glass..........your vision would end with the glass. You wouldn't see what is on the other side.

Pull your head out of scepti's ass.
No, dick head, you and your round earth cronies are the ridiculously naive sheep that willingly walk forward to the cull.
Earthisaspaceship is clued up...something that most of you don't even know the meaning of the word.
It's worrying, it really is.
Bark all you want, you prat, but all you are, is a mental mainstream follower that believes that memorising bull crap, makes you intelligent. lol
A simple youtube video disproved everything you say. We know who is really crying.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 04:32:59 PM
Well if you can see something inside a vacuum chamber then light is passing through it and coming out from inside.

I can see that bell in the post above so light must be able to pass through a vacuum.
Alright this is what I need to see then because the glass chamber is not working to prove my point.  Someone please record a flashlight inside a vacuum that is not made of glass!
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 04:37:39 PM
A simple youtube video disproved everything you say. We know who is really crying.
The video above?  No, it did not disprove anything Scepti or I have said.  It proves that a ringing bell inside a vacuum is inaudible to us outside the vacuum.  THAT IS ALL.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 19, 2013, 04:40:20 PM
Well if you can see something inside a vacuum chamber then light is passing through it and coming out from inside.

I can see that bell in the post above so light must be able to pass through a vacuum.
Alright this is what I need to see then because the glass chamber is not working to prove my point.  Someone please record a flashlight inside a vacuum that is not made of glass!
I will do this. At work the vacuum desiccator is plastic. I will tell you right now, I can see stuff inside of it.
A simple youtube video disproved everything you say. We know who is really crying.
The video above?  No, it did not disprove anything Scepti or I have said.  It proves that a ringing bell inside a vacuum is inaudible to us outside the vacuum.  THAT IS ALL.
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on December 19, 2013, 04:48:12 PM
A simple youtube video disproved everything you say. We know who is really crying.
The video above?  No, it did not disprove anything Scepti or I have said.  It proves that a ringing bell inside a vacuum is inaudible to us outside the vacuum.  THAT IS ALL.

Yes it does proove you wrong.  Your claim is that light and light are the same.  Since you cannot hear the bell outside the vacuum chamber yet you can still see it, it shows that they are not the same thing.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on December 19, 2013, 05:05:12 PM
Quote
The video above?  No, it did not disprove anything Scepti or I have said.  It proves that a ringing bell inside a vacuum is inaudible to us outside the vacuum.  THAT IS ALL.

You can see the bell, right? But you can't hear it, right?

Does that not sink in?

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 05:17:31 PM
Alright this is what I need to see then because the glass chamber is not working to prove my point.  Someone please record a flashlight inside a vacuum that is not made of glass!
Just for interests sake, what would you like it made of?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 05:18:21 PM
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Yes.  So think about it, without pressure waves in space (a vacuum), how can there be light if there is no sound? Light IS sound.  A sonogram (sound) creates an image (a visual perception).
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
Yes it does proove you wrong.  Your claim is that light and light are the same.  Since you cannot hear the bell outside the vacuum chamber yet you can still see it, it shows that they are not the same thing.
Nope.  I see the bell because it is in a LIT room and that light penetrates through the glass.  It is not the same as a flashlight inside an opaque vacuum chamber.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 05:22:33 PM
You can see the bell, right? But you can't hear it, right?

Does that not sink in?
Stop asking me questions.  I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop responding to me altogether.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on December 19, 2013, 05:30:37 PM
Quote
Stop asking me questions.  I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop responding to me altogether.

I'd greatly appreciate you reading a book and becoming educated but I'm quite certain the odds of that are low.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Umurweird on December 19, 2013, 05:32:25 PM
Quote
Nope.  I see the bell because it is in a LIT room and that light penetrates through the glass.  It is not the same as a flashlight inside an opaque vacuum chamber.

In order for you to see the bell the light outside the vacuum has to travel inside and then back out to your eyes.

If the light couldn't travel inside the vacuum...........you wouldn't see the bell.

It's really that simple.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 19, 2013, 05:50:33 PM
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Yes.  So think about it, without pressure waves in space (a vacuum), how can there be light if there is no sound? Light IS sound.  A sonogram (sound) creates an image (a visual perception).
how can you see without light?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 19, 2013, 05:52:36 PM
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Yes.  So think about it, without pressure waves in space (a vacuum), how can there be light if there is no sound? Light IS sound.  A sonogram (sound) creates an image (a visual perception).
Light not being sound solves all the problems.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on December 19, 2013, 06:54:31 PM
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Yes.  So think about it, without pressure waves in space (a vacuum), how can there be light if there is no sound? Light IS sound.  A sonogram (sound) creates an image (a visual perception).
Sonograms work by measuring the time it takes for the sound waves to bounce back.  It then creates an image from those time.  The sound wave are used as a signal only.  The image is produced by the machine based on the information it gains from the signal.

Also, if light and sound were the same thing, when the sound of the bell gets quieter until it is almost completely gone, the inside of the container would also darken as the vacuum is pulled.  You would not be able to see inside the container.

And one more time, in order to see something, light needs to travel and bounce off of an object.  If light does not travel through a vacuum, then the light would not be able to go inside the vacuum chamber and bounce off the bell, travel back out of the vacuum chamber, and enteryour eye.

The bell inside a vacuum chamber disproves you theory that light and sound are the same thing.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 07:01:24 PM
Also, if light and sound were the same thing, when the sound of the bell gets quieter until it is almost completely gone, the inside of the container would also darken as the vacuum is pulled.  You would not be able to see inside the container.

No it would not.  The light is penetrating from the OUTSIDE of the vacuum THROUGH the glass. It amazes me how you guys can't understand this.  The light is OUTSIDE THE VACUUM.  Show me light that is created INSIDE it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on December 19, 2013, 07:12:53 PM
The light is penetrating from the OUTSIDE of the vacuum THROUGH the glass. Then THROUGH the vacuum to the bell.  It amazes me how you guys can't understand this.  The light is going from OUTSIDE THE VACUUM THROUGH THE VACUUM to the bell.  It doesn't matter WHERE the light is coming from.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 19, 2013, 07:14:39 PM
Keeping in mind that an absolute vacuum does not exist anywhere on a macroscopic scale, here is a diagram that shows what would happen in a vacuum chamber using scepti and earth's model of light, and one showing what actually happens (it's a little crude, but I think it's clear enough to get the point across):

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5950/fr9a.png)

Earth, it doesn't matter where the light is created, if you can see the object inside the chamber, then that object is effectively the source of the light that is coming to your eye, regardless of the original source. If light could not propagate in a vacuum, then it would not even penetrate into the chamber to be reflected out again.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 19, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
Put a digital camera (or any recording device) inside a vacuum chamber (or outside, for that matter) and a flashlight, TURN OFF ALL THE LIGHTS IN THE ROOM and record the light for me.  THEN I will believe you. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 19, 2013, 07:56:41 PM
Also, if light and sound were the same thing, when the sound of the bell gets quieter until it is almost completely gone, the inside of the container would also darken as the vacuum is pulled.  You would not be able to see inside the container.

No it would not.  The light is penetrating from the OUTSIDE of the vacuum THROUGH the glass. It amazes me how you guys can't understand this.  The light is OUTSIDE THE VACUUM.  Show me light that is created INSIDE it.
This in the the top 10 dumbest things ever said on FES.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 19, 2013, 08:58:12 PM
No it would not.  The light is penetrating from the OUTSIDE of the vacuum THROUGH the glass....
and through the vacuum to the object, illuminating it, reflecting back through the vacuum, back through the glass, through the air, to your eyes. 
Quote
It amazes me how you guys can't understand this.  The light is OUTSIDE THE VACUUM.  Show me light that is created INSIDE it.
We have. 

Will there be anything else?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 19, 2013, 10:43:40 PM
Show me light that is created INSIDE it.

What about old incandescent light bulbs? They used to use a vacuum inside the glass bulb to extend the life of the filament, starting from 1840. I believe some light bulbs still use a vacuum. When you consider that the filament is the source of light in this case, and that light has to travel from the filament through the vacuum to reach the outside of the bulb, I really can't see why we're still discussing this.

Oh, and if you want a picture, here:

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/05/5-25-2012-sn-vacuum.jpg)

Okay, so these aren't incandescent bulbs, they're vacuum tubes. The light still originates inside the tube and crosses a near-perfect vacuum before passing through the glass of the tube. Hope y'all appreciated that info, sorry it took me so long to think of posting it!
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 03:44:11 AM
Also, if light and sound were the same thing, when the sound of the bell gets quieter until it is almost completely gone, the inside of the container would also darken as the vacuum is pulled.  You would not be able to see inside the container.

No it would not.  The light is penetrating from the OUTSIDE of the vacuum THROUGH the glass. It amazes me how you guys can't understand this.  The light is OUTSIDE THE VACUUM.  Show me light that is created INSIDE it.

why does it matter where it is created? If you had a bell that was not in a vacuum but surrounded by it it would still muffle the sound to anyone on the other side.

People don't put lights in vacuum chambers often because it is more hassle and introduces an extra variable to the experiment.

The fact that diodes are examples of light in a vacuum also seems to have escaped you.

Put a digital camera (or any recording device) inside a vacuum chamber (or outside, for that matter) and a flashlight, TURN OFF ALL THE LIGHTS IN THE ROOM and record the light for me.  THEN I will believe you.

What makes you think any of us have a vacuum chamber?

What also makes you think any of us if we DID have a vacuum chamber would want to waste time doing this just so you could say that it obviously wasn't really a vacuum?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: markjo on December 20, 2013, 06:40:53 AM
There is no air so pressure waves cannot be created. Not rocket science.
Yes.  So think about it, without pressure waves in space (a vacuum), how can there be light if there is no sound? Light IS sound.
*sigh*
Sound is a mechanical wave.  Light is an electromagnetic wave.  They share many of the same characteristics of waves, but light is also a particle (photon) and, as such, exhibits characteristics that sound waves do not.  Perhaps this diagram will help:
(http://www.beachwoodschools.org/Downloads/sound8light_vs_sound.png)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 08:14:16 AM
Light bulbs contain gas, either Argon, Neon or Xenon.  They are NOT the same as a vacuum chamber.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 09:01:50 AM
Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

Gas-filled tubes

Gas-filled tubes such as discharge tubes and cold cathode tubes are not hard vacuum tubes, though are always filled with gas at less than sea-level atmospheric pressure. Types such as the voltage-regulator tube and thyratron resemble hard vacuum tubes and fit in sockets designed for vacuum tubes. Their distinctive orange, red, or purple glow during operation indicates the presence of gas; electrons flowing in a vacuum do not produce light within that region. These types may still be referred to as "electron tubes" as they do perform electronic functions. High-power rectifiers use mercury vapor to achieve a lower forward voltage drop than high-vacuum tubes. - Wikipedia

Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: 29silhouette on December 20, 2013, 10:03:25 AM
  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?
Why don't you have the time to prove that a flashlight won't illuminate the inside of a vacuum chamber?  We've shown videos of objects visible in vacuum chambers (meaning light is traveling through the vacuum), and videos of darkened rooms with light sources inside (meaning light is traveling through the vacuum).

If you think a flashlight is going to be different, then prove it.

We all know what scepti's reply, followed by your reply in agreement with his, is going to be anyway.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 20, 2013, 11:07:29 AM
Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

Gas-filled tubes

Gas-filled tubes such as discharge tubes and cold cathode tubes are not hard vacuum tubes, though are always filled with gas at less than sea-level atmospheric pressure. Types such as the voltage-regulator tube and thyratron resemble hard vacuum tubes and fit in sockets designed for vacuum tubes. Their distinctive orange, red, or purple glow during operation indicates the presence of gas; electrons flowing in a vacuum do not produce light within that region. These types may still be referred to as "electron tubes" as they do perform electronic functions. High-power rectifiers use mercury vapor to achieve a lower forward voltage drop than high-vacuum tubes. - Wikipedia

Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?

The old vauum tubes were just that. No gas. Of course there were other tubes such as thyratrons, mercury vapor tubes, etc. which did contain gas.

The vacuum tubes also had a "getter" which completed and maintained the vacuum inside the tube. And of course you could see the light from the filament or "heater" as the old radio men called them. That was one of the first tests to see if a vacuum tube was good or bad. Whether or not the tube was "lit up."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 11:09:34 AM
Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?

because

A: I haven't had access to a vacuum chamber since I left school and

B: The one there was made of glass which apparently isn't acceptable.

The reason there's no pictures of flashlights in vacuum tubes is no one would have a reason to do it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 20, 2013, 11:26:45 AM
Well if you can see something inside a vacuum chamber then light is passing through it and coming out from inside.

I can see that bell in the post above so light must be able to pass through a vacuum.
Alright this is what I need to see then because the glass chamber is not working to prove my point.  Someone please record a flashlight inside a vacuum that is not made of glass!

These threads do get confusing at times .....but.....maybe I'm wrong but were you saying that light cannot penetrate through a vacuum ?

 If that were the case, your flashlight wouldn't work because the filament inside the flashlight bulb makes the light and the bulb itself is sort of a miniature vacuum chamber. And flashlight bulbs do work. I think you could prove that yourself ?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 01:12:59 PM
Everyone else is confused because they don't grasp the idea that light created outside the glass vacuum is what is illuminating the object inside the vacuum.  A proper experiment requires that there be NO LIGHT coming from outside the vacuum.  Or if there is, there must be an opaque vacuum with a light inside it.  Light bulbs contain gas so they are not considered vacuums.  However, they are a light source so they can be used inside the chamber to show that the light propagates or not.

I would simply like to see if the light dims and goes out as the chamber is evacuated.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 20, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
Light bulbs contain gas, either Argon, Neon or Xenon.  They are NOT the same as a vacuum chamber.

"In 1840, British scientist Warren de la Rue enclosed a coiled platinum filament in a vacuum tube and passed an electric current through it." and "...the evacuated chamber would contain fewer gas molecules to react with the platinum..."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb)

Why would anyone bother making a light bulb with a vacuum inside it if light couldn't escape? It'd be completely pointless. Okay, it's not a total vacuum, but as has been pointed out before, such a thing does not exist on the scales we are talking about.

Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

That was interesting info you gave, but I get the distinct feeling you were cherry-picking. This was at the top of the same page you quoted from:
"In electronics, a vacuum tube, electron tube (in North America), tube, or thermionic valve or valve (in British English) is a device controlling electric current through a vacuum in a sealed container."

and this was a little lower down:
"The vast majority of modern day tubes consist of a sealed container with a vacuum inside..."

Here's a home-made vacuum triode:
(http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/VacuumTriode.jpg)

Also here, you can clearly see that only the filament is glowing, and it is lighting the entire room:
(http://classictubeaudio.com/wp-content//Oh-that-glow-845-pure-class-a-single-ended-25-watts-510x382.jpg)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Romrot on December 20, 2013, 01:28:00 PM
Everyone else is confused because they don't grasp the idea that light created outside the glass vacuum is what is illuminating the object inside the vacuum.  A proper experiment requires that there be NO LIGHT coming from outside the vacuum.  Or if there is, there must be an opaque vacuum with a light inside it.  Light bulbs contain gas so they are not considered vacuums.  However, they are a light source so they can be used inside the chamber to show that the light propagates or not.

Sie sind verwirrt, weil du deinen Freund ficken ohne Schmieröl!

I could put a LED light on the inside of a vacuum. and it would work inside or outside the vacuum, we don't put LED's in vacuums though because they don't need them to work...but they can still work inside the vacuum.  what you are saying though makes no sense, some dude asked if he can see across the see to the other side of the world, the answer to which is obviously no because the earth is curved. you FE'ers need a new model because the old aint working.

also stars are a light source, space is a vacuum(before you try to discredit this, constant(k)/∞ is going to be zero! Space is constantly expanding(even FE'ers flat earth model acknowledges that) if it is constantly expanding then volume(V) is heading towards infinity, mass(m)/volume(V) = density if something has zero density it would be a vacuum. m/∞ is 0 so stars are a light source in a vacuum.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 01:45:15 PM
Ok Sci, here's an abstract thought for you...
What if the only reason you can see inside those vacuum tubes is because the light is visible to us OUTSIDE that vacuum?  How can you be 100% sure there is light INSIDE the bulb?  We know the energy is there inside the bulb and creates light in our atmosphere but is it creating light in the vacuum where there is no atmosphere?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on December 20, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Ok Sci, here's an abstract thought for you...
What if the only reason you can see inside those vacuum tubes is because the light is visible to us OUTSIDE that vacuum?  How can you be 100% sure there is light INSIDE the bulb?  We know the energy is there inside the bulb and creates light in our atmosphere but is it creating light in the vacuum where there is no atmosphere?
But how does it get out of the vacuum if light can't travel through a vacuum?
Are you suggesting that there is some form of energy that can travel through a vacuum, then when it enters atmosphere it transforms to light?

That is very interesting claim you have made.  Care to back it up with some experimentation?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 20, 2013, 02:06:54 PM
Ok Sci, here's an abstract thought for you...
What if the only reason you can see inside those vacuum tubes is because the light is visible to us OUTSIDE that vacuum?  How can you be 100% sure there is light INSIDE the bulb?  We know the energy is there inside the bulb and creates light in our atmosphere but is it creating light in the vacuum where there is no atmosphere?
But how does it get out of the vacuum if light can't travel through a vacuum?
Are you suggesting that there is some form of energy that can travel through a vacuum, then when it enters atmosphere it transforms to light?

That is very interesting claim you have made.  Care to back it up with some experimentation?

Took the words right out of my mouth. :)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 20, 2013, 02:07:07 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 02:12:01 PM
But how does it get out of the vacuum if light can't travel through a vacuum?
Are you suggesting that there is some form of energy that can travel through a vacuum, then when it enters atmosphere it transforms to light?

That is very interesting claim you have made.  Care to back it up with some experimentation?
YES!  That is what Eric Dollard said as well.  I do not know what the energy is but I would LOVE to back it up.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on December 20, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
But how does it get out of the vacuum if light can't travel through a vacuum?
Are you suggesting that there is some form of energy that can travel through a vacuum, then when it enters atmosphere it transforms to light?

That is very interesting claim you have made.  Care to back it up with some experimentation?
YES!  That is what Eric Dollard said as well.  I do not know what the energy is but I would LOVE to back it up.
Then you better get yourself a vacuum chamber and a flashlight to prove there is.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 20, 2013, 02:19:51 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!

Tritium:

(http://web.singnet.com.sg/~desertmn/IMG_1238.JPG)

Get some, and see if you can record any kind of sound from it. I couldn't find anything saying that it did make sound, so am assuming it doesn't until evidence is provided to the contrary.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 20, 2013, 02:22:15 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!

Tritium:

(http://web.singnet.com.sg/~desertmn/IMG_1238.JPG)

Get some, and see if you can record any kind of sound from it. I couldn't find anything saying that it did make sound, so am assuming it doesn't until evidence is provided to the contrary.
So how does it work then?
Tell me simply, how it glows. What makes it glow?
Be careful here, because the very second you mention REACTION, you do realise what that means, right?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 02:41:09 PM
Does INTERACTION count?  "Naturally occurring tritium is extremely rare on Earth, where trace amounts are formed by the interaction of the atmosphere with cosmic rays." - Wikipedia
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 20, 2013, 04:16:08 PM
Scepti, take the time to look up 'radio luminescense' and make an effort to understand it. Suffice to say, the interactions are far to small to create actual sound. They're not even mechanical interactions, so there is no way they could even be considered as sound.

That's enough spoon feeding, work the rest out yourself.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 04:45:54 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!
Do you own a flashlight?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 04:56:29 PM

I could put a LED light on the inside of a vacuum. and it would work inside or outside the vacuum, we don't put LED's in vacuums though because they don't need them to work..

I was under the impression that all diodes were sealed in a vacuum?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 04:57:53 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!

A stereo in a dark room?

A bulb in a sound deadened recording studio?

I don't have any videos but I can assure you I've experienced both.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 05:15:09 PM
Sokurul and Spank,
Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean it's not creating light and just because you see light doesn't mean there is no sound wave coming from it.  Like I said before, it's all about the frequency.  Human hears do not hear every sound.
PLEASE READ:
http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=36760 (http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=36760)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 05:17:09 PM
Sokurul and Spank,
Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean it's not creating light and just because you see light doesn't mean there is no sound wave coming from it.  Like I said before, it's all about the frequency.  Human hears do not hear every sound.
PLEASE READ:
http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=36760 (http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=36760)

I'm aware of that, that's why I pointed out the speaker in a dark room which adds tot he dissociation of light and sound.

I can make a noise by folding and snapping paper, it doesn't create light.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 05:22:35 PM
Don't be so naïve.  Not all sound creates light.  It must be a certain frequency and strength.  OR....maybe it does and we just can't see it because it's so dim.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 05:23:39 PM
Don't be so naïve.  Not all sound creates light.  It must be a certain frequency and strength.

what frequency and strength.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 05:27:12 PM
High frequency (as it says in the link I posted) and very strong.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 20, 2013, 05:32:48 PM
High frequency (as it says in the link I posted) and very strong.

the link you posted was not sound directly turning into light.

It was sound exciting piezoelectric speakers causing the speakers to generate light.

think of it like putting electricity into an electric motor to generate a turning force or turning the motor to generate electricity.

If you think sound can directly create light in normal conditions I'd still like to know the Db and frequency needed.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 20, 2013, 06:06:36 PM
Just like the tungsten filament in a light bulb gets excited/vibrated, making a high frequency sound wave and turning it into light.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: markjo on December 20, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
Can anyone show me ANYTHING that proves that sound does not make light. Show me one thing that does not use sound to create a light we see.
Anything!
A light emitting diode (LED).
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led2.htm (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led2.htm)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 20, 2013, 08:26:42 PM
Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

Gas-filled tubes

Gas-filled tubes such as discharge tubes and cold cathode tubes are not hard vacuum tubes, though are always filled with gas at less than sea-level atmospheric pressure. Types such as the voltage-regulator tube and thyratron resemble hard vacuum tubes and fit in sockets designed for vacuum tubes. Their distinctive orange, red, or purple glow during operation indicates the presence of gas; electrons flowing in a vacuum do not produce light within that region. These types may still be referred to as "electron tubes" as they do perform electronic functions. High-power rectifiers use mercury vapor to achieve a lower forward voltage drop than high-vacuum tubes. - Wikipedia

Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?

Take it from an old ham radio operator. Old vacuum tubes ....once again I will repeat VACUUM TUBES....do not contain any gas...just by way of definition they are VACUUM TUBES. Same way with common light bulbs. VACUUM. No gas.
I thought that had been made clear by now. ???

Ancient history : Look up 5Y3GT vacuuum  tube. Commonly used diode tube rectifier used in a lot old ham radio receivers and transmiters. And it did give off a cheery orange-red glow from the filament inside the tube .  ;D
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5y3gt.html (http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5y3gt.html)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 08:29:48 PM
Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

Gas-filled tubes

Gas-filled tubes such as discharge tubes and cold cathode tubes are not hard vacuum tubes, though are always filled with gas at less than sea-level atmospheric pressure. Types such as the voltage-regulator tube and thyratron resemble hard vacuum tubes and fit in sockets designed for vacuum tubes. Their distinctive orange, red, or purple glow during operation indicates the presence of gas; electrons flowing in a vacuum do not produce light within that region. These types may still be referred to as "electron tubes" as they do perform electronic functions. High-power rectifiers use mercury vapor to achieve a lower forward voltage drop than high-vacuum tubes. - Wikipedia

Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?

Take it from an old ham radio operator. Old vacuum tubes ....once again I will repeat VACUUM TUBES....do not contain any gas...just by way of definition they are VACUUM TUBES. Same way with common light bulbs. VACUUM. No gas.
I thought that had been made clear by now. ???

Ancient history : Look up 5Y3GT vacuuum  tube. Commonly used diode tube rectifier used in a lot old ham radio receivers and transmiters. And it did give off a cheery red glow from the filament inside the tube .  ;D

Vacuum tubes do not contain a perfect vacuum.  Therefore, vacuum tubes contain a gas at a lower pressure than atmospheric pressure. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 20, 2013, 08:38:12 PM
Sci, thanks but those vacuum tubes have gas in them:

Gas-filled tubes

Gas-filled tubes such as discharge tubes and cold cathode tubes are not hard vacuum tubes, though are always filled with gas at less than sea-level atmospheric pressure. Types such as the voltage-regulator tube and thyratron resemble hard vacuum tubes and fit in sockets designed for vacuum tubes. Their distinctive orange, red, or purple glow during operation indicates the presence of gas; electrons flowing in a vacuum do not produce light within that region. These types may still be referred to as "electron tubes" as they do perform electronic functions. High-power rectifiers use mercury vapor to achieve a lower forward voltage drop than high-vacuum tubes. - Wikipedia

Spank,
What makes me think that?  The fact that you seem to be an expert on vacuum chambers, that's what.  You have the time to debate this with me so why don't you have time to prove what you say?

Take it from an old ham radio operator. Old vacuum tubes ....once again I will repeat VACUUM TUBES....do not contain any gas...just by way of definition they are VACUUM TUBES. Same way with common light bulbs. VACUUM. No gas.
I thought that had been made clear by now. ???

Ancient history : Look up 5Y3GT vacuuum  tube. Commonly used diode tube rectifier used in a lot old ham radio receivers and transmiters. And it did give off a cheery red glow from the filament inside the tube .  ;D

Vacuum tubes do not contain a perfect vacuum.  Therefore, vacuum tubes contain a gas at a lower pressure than atmospheric pressure.

There is really no such thing as a perfect vacuum. But the old vacuum tubes were as close as possible. Look up post on the "getter" which enabled the tube to get  even more vacuum inside the tube than that from the vacuum pump used in the manufacture. Besides, any residual gas in the tube was miniscule and immaterial to the operation . Of course this is purely from a practical sense. Of course mercury vapor and other type tubes do have gas, but for all practical purposes vacuum tubes are vacuum tubes. And of course you can see the glow of the filament inside the tube from the outside of the tube which proves light does penetrate a vacuum.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 08:50:07 PM
Vacuum simply means an area of lower pressure.  The word is not synonymous with a perfect or even near perfect vacuum.  However, you are trying to portray it as such. 

Please find me a resource that says that vacuum, in terms of tubes or bulbs, means the absolute absence of gas.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: robintex on December 20, 2013, 09:06:19 PM
Vacuum simply means an area of lower pressure.  The word is not synonymous with a perfect or even near perfect vacuum.  However, you are trying to portray it as such. 

Please find me a resource that says that vacuum, in terms of tubes or bulbs, means the absolute absence of gas.

You are picking at straws. I am speaking from a practical standpoint. Besides I think the original debate was whether light could penetrate a vacuum, which of course it can and does.

In the real world (the so-called "Round Earth" world) we use devices that we either call the "gas filled tubes" or "vacuum tubes" and the difference is whether the inside of the tube is a vacuum or has some gas.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 09:18:19 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 11:01:58 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct.
You do realize in between atoms there is nothing? How can a light photon atom hop if it needs a medium? Oh that's right, it's an electromagnetic wave, whereas sound is a pressure wave.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 11:09:48 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct.
You do realize in between atoms there is nothing? How can a light photon atom hop if it needs a medium? Oh that's right, it's an electromagnetic wave, whereas sound is a pressure wave.

You do realize how far apart atoms are at sea level pressure, right?  Yet, sound has no trouble at all traveling through this medium, now does it?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 11:23:55 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct.
You do realize in between atoms there is nothing? How can a light photon atom hop if it needs a medium? Oh that's right, it's an electromagnetic wave, whereas sound is a pressure wave.

You do realize how far apart atoms are at sea level pressure, right?  Yet, sound has no trouble at all traveling through this medium, now does it?
Is that a serious question? Atoms themselves cause us to hear a noise, whereas electromagnetic waves are separate from atoms.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 11:31:57 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct.
You do realize in between atoms there is nothing? How can a light photon atom hop if it needs a medium? Oh that's right, it's an electromagnetic wave, whereas sound is a pressure wave.

You do realize how far apart atoms are at sea level pressure, right?  Yet, sound has no trouble at all traveling through this medium, now does it?
Is that a serious question? Atoms themselves cause us to hear a noise, whereas electromagnetic waves are separate from atoms.

The subject is about energy traveling through a medium or a vacuum.  I think we have confirmed that a vacuum tube does in fact contain a medium.  You can try to derail this thread all you want to, sokarul, but you can not change facts. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 11:34:48 PM
I do not subscribe to the sceptimatic model of the flat Earth, but it would seem to me that you are admitting that there is a medium for light to travel through in a vacuum tube, if his model is in fact correct.
You do realize in between atoms there is nothing? How can a light photon atom hop if it needs a medium? Oh that's right, it's an electromagnetic wave, whereas sound is a pressure wave.

You do realize how far apart atoms are at sea level pressure, right?  Yet, sound has no trouble at all traveling through this medium, now does it?
Is that a serious question? Atoms themselves cause us to hear a noise, whereas electromagnetic waves are separate from atoms.

The subject is about energy traveling through a medium or a vacuum.  I think we have confirmed that a vacuum tube does in fact contain a medium.  You can try to derail this thread all you want to, sokarul, but you can not change facts.
Please look up ether theory. You will notice that ether in ether theory is actually everywhere. You can pretend that atoms in a vacuum cover everywhere, but facts will not change.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 11:40:13 PM
So, are you claiming that ether theory is the correct theory?  I am just trying to figure out what you are saying here, as your posts give no definitive statements.  You almost seem to do that on purpose, sokarul.  If I was not a professional, I would even accuse you of being purposely obtuse in your posts. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 11:43:20 PM
So, are you claiming that ether theory is the correct theory?  I am just trying to figure out what you are saying here, as your posts give no definitive statements.  You almost seem to do that on purpose, sokarul.  If I was not a professional, I would even accuse you of being purposely obtuse in your posts.
I make shorts post as to no waste my time on stupid subjects like this one.
No, i do not believe in ether theory. I was getting at ether would be a proper medium for electromagnetic waves. Instead of air molecules, where would be a poor medium for electromagnetic waves.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 20, 2013, 11:49:15 PM
So, you are saying no, it is not true, but you are using it to prove your point anyway?  I am really having a hard time understanding you, sokarul, between your poor grammar and pointless posts.  Please tell me what you are trying to say in one short sentence, so you are likely to make the least amount of spelling and grammar errors.  I really do want to know what is going on in your mind.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 20, 2013, 11:52:05 PM
So, you are saying no, it is not true, but you are using it to prove your point anyway?  I am really having a hard time understanding you, sokarul, between your poor grammar and pointless posts.  Please tell me what you are trying to say in one short sentence, so you are likely to make the least amount of spelling and grammar errors.  I really do want to know what is going on in your mind.
You have shown time and time again that you do not understand simple math, science, and physics. I cannot dumb down my argument enough for you to understand. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 21, 2013, 12:04:23 AM
So, you are saying no, it is not true, but you are using it to prove your point anyway?  I am really having a hard time understanding you, sokarul, between your poor grammar and pointless posts.  Please tell me what you are trying to say in one short sentence, so you are likely to make the least amount of spelling and grammar errors.  I really do want to know what is going on in your mind.
You have shown time and time again that you do not understand simple math, science, and physics. I cannot dumb down my argument enough for you to understand.

Yes, well, your simple math, science, and physics seem to be lost in your ramblings.  Would you mind, please, pointing them out again?  I usually reserve the drunk jokes for markjo; however, I am seriously questioning your sobriety right now.  Maybe I am just over-thinking, or possibly under-thinking, your posts. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 21, 2013, 03:13:33 AM
Just like the tungsten filament in a light bulb gets excited/vibrated, making a high frequency sound wave and turning it into light.

again, at what frequency and what Decibel level does this occur in your hypothesis?

The subject is about energy traveling through a medium or a vacuum.  I think we have confirmed that a vacuum tube does in fact contain a medium.  You can try to derail this thread all you want to, sokarul, but you can not change facts.

We've already seen a video of a bell going muffled and silent as a vacuum tube is evacuated.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 21, 2013, 04:20:53 AM
Just like the tungsten filament in a light bulb gets excited/vibrated, making a high frequency sound wave and turning it into light.

again, at what frequency and what Decibel level does this occur in your hypothesis?

The subject is about energy traveling through a medium or a vacuum.  I think we have confirmed that a vacuum tube does in fact contain a medium.  You can try to derail this thread all you want to, sokarul, but you can not change facts.

We've already seen a video of a bell going muffled and silent as a vacuum tube is evacuated.
It doesn't matter what frequency or decibel level. The fact is that everything that gives off light HAS to start from vibration/friction/sound to create light.
Light just does not magically appear and if it does, then tell me how.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 21, 2013, 04:36:12 AM
It doesn't matter what frequency or decibel level. The fact is that everything that gives off light HAS to start from vibration/friction/sound to create light.

of course it matters, it's self evident that not all vibration/friction/sound creates light. So if you're saying some does then there must be properties specific to certain types of it to allow this.

Without that your theory falls down.

Light just does not magically appear and if it does, then tell me how.

You want to know how something magically appears?

doesn't that sort of answer itself?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 21, 2013, 04:44:14 AM
It doesn't matter what frequency or decibel level.

Really? Every sound has a frequency and dB level, so I think they might be kind of important.

The fact is that everything that gives off light HAS to start from vibration/friction/sound to create light.

Nope.

Light just does not magically appear and if it does, then tell me how.

Did that, you ignored me.

Try this (again): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioluminescence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioluminescence)

Keep in mind, these interactions are at an atomic level, and are not mechanical, so nothing that could be called sound is produced.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 21, 2013, 05:10:35 AM
It doesn't matter what frequency or decibel level.

Really? Every sound has a frequency and dB level, so I think they might be kind of important.

The fact is that everything that gives off light HAS to start from vibration/friction/sound to create light.

Nope.

Light just does not magically appear and if it does, then tell me how.

Did that, you ignored me.

Try this (again): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioluminescence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioluminescence)

Keep in mind, these interactions are at an atomic level, and are not mechanical, so nothing that could be called sound is produced.
Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 21, 2013, 05:14:27 AM
Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.

So what frequency is the sound produced by tritium?

I can't find any data on any sound produced by tritium or radium.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Son of Orospu on December 21, 2013, 05:24:11 AM
Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.

So what frequency is the sound produced by tritium?

I can't find any data on any sound produced by tritium or radium.

Probably because the sound is below ear shot.  However, did you look up the frequencies at which tritium releases its energy?  I am just curious. 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 21, 2013, 06:52:42 AM
Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.

So what frequency is the sound produced by tritium?

I can't find any data on any sound produced by tritium or radium.

Probably because the sound is below ear shot.  However, did you look up the frequencies at which tritium releases its energy?  I am just curious.

the only references I can find are to it's frequencies on the electro-magnetic spectrum not to sonic frequencies.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 21, 2013, 08:15:35 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence)

Sound turns into light in our atmosphere.  The air contains plenty of water vapor.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: inquisitive on December 21, 2013, 08:44:06 AM
Quote
Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.

So what frequency sound does an LED produce?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: EarthIsASpaceship on December 21, 2013, 08:53:11 AM
So what frequency sound does an LED produce?
Low frequency.
Click link and open the document:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F234848397_Low_frequency_noise_and_long-term_stability_of_noncoherent_light_sources%2Ffile%2F79e415112c23fe5b1d.pdf&ei=I8a1UsDnKKXQ2AWaiIDgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFtmUFZYM6mblteHTj-aHsBSxxAzA (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F234848397_Low_frequency_noise_and_long-term_stability_of_noncoherent_light_sources%2Ffile%2F79e415112c23fe5b1d.pdf&ei=I8a1UsDnKKXQ2AWaiIDgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFtmUFZYM6mblteHTj-aHsBSxxAzA)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 21, 2013, 11:14:40 AM
How much sound is made when an electron releases energy and drops an energy level?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 25, 2013, 02:52:59 PM

Like I said, you can't produce anything that creates light without it creating sound. Just because your primitive ears cannot hear it, does not mean it's not there.


No; this is silly.  Sound as we know it is produced by the mechanical peturbations of air molecules impinging on our eardrums—or other electronic acoustic sensors.

As others have said, light is the product of electromagnetic radiation that's visible to the human eye.  And EMR in this scenario definitely doesn't produce any sound.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 27, 2013, 03:24:46 PM
How much sound is made when an electron releases energy and drops an energy level?
Ok I guess we are at an agreement that the answer is zero.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: mohamed on December 30, 2013, 04:18:45 PM
Quote
It really does go from east to west.  The optical illusion comes into play when the sun is so far away that it is approaching the horizon.  This distance is at the limit of the sun's light being able to penetrate the air.  It simply appears to sink below the horizon as it fades away from view. 

I hope this makes sense. 


It doesn't.

So how does it get back in the east again to appear to come up from the horizon?

It goes in a circle.

If the Earth were flat.........the sun wouldn't set on the horizon. It would stay high up in the sky and get smaller and smaller as it moved away until you couldn't see it. Similar to a bird flying away from you.

The atmolayer magnifies the size of the sun.  It is like a giant magnifying glass.

If it goes in a circle, I would expect to see that. Also how can the atmolayer be magnifying things. You know a magnifying glass is a convex. I certainly would not expect the atmo'layer' to be convex on a flat world. Your theory becomes more bizarre by the minute.

1- it is simple, have you ever seen the sun exactly upon your head in any place in the world? no! the question is why? the  sun always circulates in a semi circular path from east to west! and during the year it changes it setting places! yet if the earth were spherical the sun set would always have the same setting point even during equinoxes / summer winter solstices!

2- the sun appears hotter, more luminous and smaller at 12:00 PM
    at the sun set it becomes colder, red, and bigger!
    you can check this out by your self,

3- God has given us all the necessary tools to discover the universe by our selves,
    but the new world order thaught us to believe in his vision which is not real!


Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on December 30, 2013, 05:13:01 PM
1- it is simple, have you ever seen the sun exactly upon your head in any place in the world? no! the question is why? the  sun always circulates in a semi circular path from east to west! and during the year it changes it setting places! yet if the earth were spherical the sun set would always have the same setting point even during equinoxes / summer winter solstices!

2- the sun appears hotter, more luminous and smaller at 12:00 PM
    at the sun set it becomes colder, red, and bigger!
    you can check this out by your self,

3- God has given us all the necessary tools to discover the universe by our selves,
    but the new world order thaught us to believe in his vision which is not real!

1- Not sure what you mean by "exactly upon your head", but if you mean "directly overhead", then yes, this happens regularly between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. As for having the same setting place all year if the earth were spherical, I think you need to give that some more thought, you are clearly missing some very important spatial reasoning there. Perhaps get a globe and a desk lamp and make some observations using those. You should quickly see why the rising and setting location moves over the course of a year.

2- Yes, this is true (to a degree), but the key word is "appears". The sun is not really any of these things, it just seems to be (colder because of the shallower angle at which it's light hits the earth, redder because of the increased distance it's light must travel through the atmosphere, and bigger because of an optical illusion, thought to be similar to an Ebbinghaus illusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbinghaus_illusion)). Remember, at sunset in one place, it's still midday in another.

3- Religion is a subject I choose not to discuss, so I shall not comment further on this point.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on December 30, 2013, 05:48:45 PM

It is simple, have you ever seen the sun exactly upon your head in any place in the world? no! the question is why? the  sun always circulates in a semi circular path from east to west! and during the year it changes it setting places! yet if the earth were spherical the sun set would always have the same setting point even during equinoxes / summer winter solstices!


Yes; of course.  Please check out this diagram.  Your knowledge of astrophysics is somewhat lacking.

(http://sageography.myschoolstuff.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/01/latitudeclimate.png)


Additionally, the sun does not "circulate" in any "path" relative to the earth;  it's stationary.  And the sun also does not "rise" or "set".  They're just convenient figures of speech.

This diagram illustrates the reason why the seasons vary.  The "plane of the ecliptic" is the plane of the earth's orbit around the sun.  Also note the 23.5º tilt of the earth's axis relative to the perpendicular (and the sun's axis).
 
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf1ZGayCkzPVjCZBeU2_bIS940tPJQB7lOlSe8tUb1rWZtbATBtQ)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 31, 2013, 12:39:33 AM

Additionally, the sun does not "circulate" in any "path" relative to the earth;  it's stationary.  And the sun also does not "rise" or "set".  They're just convenient figures of speech.

This diagram illustrates the reason why the seasons vary.  The "plane of the ecliptic" is the plane of the earth's orbit around the sun.  Also note the 23.5º tilt of the earth's axis relative to the perpendicular (and the sun's axis).
 
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf1ZGayCkzPVjCZBeU2_bIS940tPJQB7lOlSe8tUb1rWZtbATBtQ)
The Sun is certainly not stationary.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on December 31, 2013, 12:46:34 AM

The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on December 31, 2013, 03:59:41 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on December 31, 2013, 04:40:12 AM
Let's start from the very basics of primitive life, like rubbing a stick on stone to make a fire.
Yes, yes, I know that science is much more advanced than this...but it wasn't at one time and all things happen because of a frequency, a vibration/friction and the energy to create it to the energy created from it.

If you were to rub your stick along a stone at a slow pace, you will find that your stick becomes warm and makes a reasonably audible sound. If you speed up that rubbing, you find that the audible sound gets less and less and yet the stick starts to glow at the end.
This is all you should need to know to tell you that you do not get light, no matter how much you think it over...if you do not have SOUND.

The trouble with you high forehead scientists, is, you dare not even think on simple lines because it makes your science less amazing to the masses if it was explained in simplistic terms, this is why you all go into spasms when someone comes along to kick you into shape...you all go into the pack mentality of attempted intimidation by using pathetic formulas and ridiculous equations to explain something that in reality can be explained to a child in a way they can understand.

Thankfully there's only a hand full of people on here that do this, as many people actually have enough about them to at least question stuff.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: mohamed on December 31, 2013, 01:11:49 PM
first I would have to say something: "thank you septimatic"
I will present for the second time a video at the end of this response, but before that, I would have to explain for some people here, that I live in Algeria (one of the countries among which the tropic of concer pass through) when the sun rises it rises alone from east to west when the clouds usually go towards the east I mean they do not follow the sun direction!!! (it proves that it's the sun who moves not the earth!) I don't want any one to tell me something rediculous about the atmospheric layer effect because when some of your lords have supposidly touched down the moon and take some videos of their waving flag! no one of you have questioned why is the flag fluttering? the sun turns and always circulates in an oblique path it proves that it is always turning around the earth and the same thing happens in each place on the earth!
and I would have to explain implicitly to someone who posted a commentary in which he explains that the sun is always overhead  between the tropic of cancer and capricorn!
"On the equator, the sun is directly overhead at noon on the two equinoxes - near March and September 21
because the sun changes its orbit but if you'll go to any Equatorial country in winter you will not find the sun shining overhead!
this is the proof that the sun runs around the earth because otherwise the sun will always appear overhead there,
and for your information: the sun doesn't even appear exactly overhead in any place in the world even in the equator, I said "exactly overhead" not "directly overhead" it's different!

The Earth is flat the Sun says so. (http://#ws)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sokarul on December 31, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Let's start from the very basics of primitive life, like rubbing a stick on stone to make a fire.
Yes, yes, I know that science is much more advanced than this...but it wasn't at one time and all things happen because of a frequency, a vibration/friction and the energy to create it to the energy created from it.

If you were to rub your stick along a stone at a slow pace, you will find that your stick becomes warm and makes a reasonably audible sound. If you speed up that rubbing, you find that the audible sound gets less and less and yet the stick starts to glow at the end.
This is all you should need to know to tell you that you do not get light, no matter how much you think it over...if you do not have SOUND.

The trouble with you high forehead scientists, is, you dare not even think on simple lines because it makes your science less amazing to the masses if it was explained in simplistic terms, this is why you all go into spasms when someone comes along to kick you into shape...you all go into the pack mentality of attempted intimidation by using pathetic formulas and ridiculous equations to explain something that in reality can be explained to a child in a way they can understand.

Thankfully there's only a hand full of people on here that do this, as many people actually have enough about them to at least question stuff.

You are terrible at logic. Bang the stick and rock together while in the dark. Do they make a sound, yes. Do they make light, no.
In your example the stick starts to glow because of heat. That is why when you stop rubbing the rock and stick together the stick still glows. The stick is hot enough to react with the oxygen in the air.
Not quite sure why you can't understand anything yet have no problem making things up.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 01:52:36 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 01:53:26 AM

The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 01:59:44 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:11:11 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?
I'm saying that the Sun is only completely stationary relative to the observer on the Sun.


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
I don't understand how what I said was false. I just had to give someone else the definition of stationary on another thread, but here :
stationary
Houghton Mifflin
adj.adjective

Not moving.
Not capable of being moved; fixed.
Unchanging.
a stationary sound.
n.noun

One that is stationary.
Variation
n.: stationaries

If the Sun even slightly wobbles, it is not stationary.
But it wobbles and rotates.
Hardly stationary.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:14:24 AM
Let's start from the very basics of primitive life, like rubbing a stick on stone to make a fire.
Yes, yes, I know that science is much more advanced than this...but it wasn't at one time and all things happen because of a frequency, a vibration/friction and the energy to create it to the energy created from it.

If you were to rub your stick along a stone at a slow pace, you will find that your stick becomes warm and makes a reasonably audible sound. If you speed up that rubbing, you find that the audible sound gets less and less and yet the stick starts to glow at the end.
This is all you should need to know to tell you that you do not get light, no matter how much you think it over...if you do not have SOUND.

The trouble with you high forehead scientists, is, you dare not even think on simple lines because it makes your science less amazing to the masses if it was explained in simplistic terms, this is why you all go into spasms when someone comes along to kick you into shape...you all go into the pack mentality of attempted intimidation by using pathetic formulas and ridiculous equations to explain something that in reality can be explained to a child in a way they can understand.

Thankfully there's only a hand full of people on here that do this, as many people actually have enough about them to at least question stuff.

You are terrible at logic. Bang the stick and rock together while in the dark. Do they make a sound, yes. Do they make light, no.
In your example the stick starts to glow because of heat. That is why when you stop rubbing the rock and stick together the stick still glows. The stick is hot enough to react with the oxygen in the air.
Not quite sure why you can't understand anything yet have no problem making things up.
I had a feeling that this would whizz past your illogical head. I tried to use the most basic, but, as we can see, Karul has decided that sticks burn and that's it and you can bang them and rock together.

Should I up it a notch so you can understand or am I wasting my time talking to you.  ;)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:18:33 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?
I'm saying that the Sun is only completely stationary relative to the observer on the Sun.


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
I don't understand how what I said was false. I just had to give someone else the definition of stationary on another thread, but here :
stationary
Houghton Mifflin
adj.adjective

Not moving.
Not capable of being moved; fixed.
Unchanging.
a stationary sound.
n.noun

One that is stationary.
Variation
n.: stationaries

If the Sun even slightly wobbles, it is not stationary.
But it wobbles and rotates.
Hardly stationary.
Wobbles! have a word for crying out loud. All this fantastic space stuff of so called superb ballerina type planets all working like clockwork and we have a few with weak ankles, so they WOBBLE.
Take some time out and look in the mirror and have a real good word with yourself and don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone, even if they tell you that the earth is a square block, because what you subscribe to is the silliest of the lot.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 02:19:59 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?
I'm saying that the Sun is only completely stationary relative to the observer on the Sun.


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
I don't understand how what I said was false. I just had to give someone else the definition of stationary on another thread, but here :
stationary
Houghton Mifflin
adj.adjective

Not moving.
Not capable of being moved; fixed.
Unchanging.
a stationary sound.
n.noun

One that is stationary.
Variation
n.: stationaries

If the Sun even slightly wobbles, it is not stationary.
But it wobbles and rotates.
Hardly stationary.

Nothing you said is false but the core purpose of this discussion is that the sun does not move in a circular motion above earth's surface but that the global earth moves around the sun.

Your argument of motion relative to our solar system is accurate but comparing the circular small sun motion FE's describe to the pretty stationary rotating wobbling object is what this debate is about.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:20:03 AM
I had a feeling that this would whizz past your illogical head. I tried to use the most basic, but, as we can see, Karul has decided that sticks burn and that's it and you can bang them and rock together.

Should I up it a notch so you can understand or am I wasting my time talking to you.  ;)
None of what you have ever said has ever been above any one person's level of intelligence.
You are just constantly making insane claims with no evidence at all to back it up.
"Rubbing two sticks together makes fire and light, while also making sound. Therefore, sound is responsible for all light and there could never be any light without sound."
You don't see the colossally gargantuan logical misstep(s) here?

You're just not very educated.
You seem to just enjoy stroking your ego - never taking into even the slightest amount of consideration that there is any possibility that you may be wrong.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:22:21 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?
I'm saying that the Sun is only completely stationary relative to the observer on the Sun.


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
I don't understand how what I said was false. I just had to give someone else the definition of stationary on another thread, but here :
stationary
Houghton Mifflin
adj.adjective

Not moving.
Not capable of being moved; fixed.
Unchanging.
a stationary sound.
n.noun

One that is stationary.
Variation
n.: stationaries

If the Sun even slightly wobbles, it is not stationary.
But it wobbles and rotates.
Hardly stationary.

Nothing you said is false but the core purpose of this discussion is that the sun does not move in a circular motion above earth's surface but that the global earth moves around the sun.

Your argument of motion relative to our solar system is accurate but comparing the circular small sun motion FE's describe to the pretty stationary rotating wobbling object is what this debate is about.
I understand, and was working out some apparent discrepancies.
Just trying to help.
No need for the hostility.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:25:34 AM
Wobbles! have a word for crying out loud. All this fantastic space stuff of so called superb ballerina type planets all working like clockwork and we have a few with weak ankles, so they WOBBLE.
Take some time out and look in the mirror and have a real good word with yourself and don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone, even if they tell you that the earth is a square block, because what you subscribe to is the silliest of the lot.

What's wrong with the word wobble? That's what it does.
Stop making me be your guys' dictionary.
Wobble Definition
v. verb
To move or rotate with an uneven or rocking motion or unsteadily from side to side.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:27:34 AM
I had a feeling that this would whizz past your illogical head. I tried to use the most basic, but, as we can see, Karul has decided that sticks burn and that's it and you can bang them and rock together.

Should I up it a notch so you can understand or am I wasting my time talking to you.  ;)
None of what you have ever said has ever been above any one person's level of intelligence.
You are just constantly making insane claims with no evidence at all to back it up.
"Rubbing two sticks together makes fire and light, while also making sound. Therefore, sound is responsible for all light and there could never be any light without sound."
You don't see the colossally gargantuan logical misstep(s) here?

You're just not very educated.
You seem to just enjoy stroking your ego - never taking into even the slightest amount of consideration that there is any possibility that you may be wrong.
I need my ego when dealing with people like you. My ego allows me to educate people like you into the simplistic basics of the earth.
It's designed to bring you back down to earth from your higher than heaven stance that you believe you hold on the so called lesser people who do not support the model that you were thoroughly brainwashed in to oblivion with.
I can accept I'm wrong on any occasion as long as it's against another logical reasoning. You and your crew do not know the meaning of the word, logic.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 02:27:52 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

My God! really?
Who would've thought?
I'm saying that the Sun is only completely stationary relative to the observer on the Sun.


The Sun is certainly not stationary.


Yeah it orbit's around our galaxy and our entire galaxy is moving towards the great attractor but relative to our solar system it's pretty stationary, rotating on it's own axis with a very slight wobble.
Pretty stationary isn't stationary.  ;)

2014 hasn't even passed 1 day and you've been nominated for:

(http://files.myopera.com/L2D2/blog/ED24A8D0.jpg)

Congratulations!
I don't understand how what I said was false. I just had to give someone else the definition of stationary on another thread, but here :
stationary
Houghton Mifflin
adj.adjective

Not moving.
Not capable of being moved; fixed.
Unchanging.
a stationary sound.
n.noun

One that is stationary.
Variation
n.: stationaries

If the Sun even slightly wobbles, it is not stationary.
But it wobbles and rotates.
Hardly stationary.

Nothing you said is false but the core purpose of this discussion is that the sun does not move in a circular motion above earth's surface but that the global earth moves around the sun.

Your argument of motion relative to our solar system is accurate but comparing the circular small sun motion FE's describe to the pretty stationary rotating wobbling object is what this debate is about.
I understand, and was working out some apparent discrepancies.
Just trying to help.
No need for the hostility.

Good, Scepti is the new nominee. lel

But just for future sake, a living organism is not required for a reference point.

Relative to our solar system the sun is a much more stationary object smack bang in the centre of this than any of the planets, asteroids, gas and comets orbiting it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:30:15 AM
Wobbles! have a word for crying out loud. All this fantastic space stuff of so called superb ballerina type planets all working like clockwork and we have a few with weak ankles, so they WOBBLE.
Take some time out and look in the mirror and have a real good word with yourself and don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone, even if they tell you that the earth is a square block, because what you subscribe to is the silliest of the lot.

What's wrong with the word wobble? That's what it does.
Stop making me be your guys' dictionary.
Wobble Definition
v. verb
To move or rotate with an uneven or rocking motion or unsteadily from side to side.
Don't be looking up definitions. Look at your logic and ask yourself why the sun or the earth would WOBBLE in your space.
The answer is obviously quite simple. It's to cater for the discrepancies of what is noted at certain times on earth. It's so ludicrous, it shocks me that normal rational people cannot see the absolute bull crap in it all. Seriously it does.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:31:15 AM


Good, Scepti is the new nominee. lel

But just for future sake, a living organism is not required for a reference point.

Relative to our solar system the sun is a much more stationary object smack bang in the centre of this than any of the planets, asteroids, gas and comets orbiting it.
I understand this, I was just saying that the Sun will never be completely stationary relative to any carbon based Earth-dweller.
I also see your point and again, just trying to be concise.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 02:36:34 AM
Don't be looking up definitions. Look at your logic and ask yourself why the sun or the earth would WOBBLE in your space.
The answer is obviously quite simple. It's to cater for the discrepancies of what is noted at certain times on earth. It's so ludicrous, it shocks me that normal rational people cannot see the absolute bull crap in it all. Seriously it does.
Why is it ludicrous to have a solution for "discrepancies" in any theory?
Just a general question, because round Earth is certainly not a theory.
The Sun and Earth both wobble because of opposing gravitational pulls.
The poles are slightly bulged.
This results in a slight wobble.
Have you substantiated enough evidence to call any of your half-baked ideas theories?
I'd think not.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 02:38:50 AM
Wobbles! have a word for crying out loud. All this fantastic space stuff of so called superb ballerina type planets all working like clockwork and we have a few with weak ankles, so they WOBBLE.
Take some time out and look in the mirror and have a real good word with yourself and don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone, even if they tell you that the earth is a square block, because what you subscribe to is the silliest of the lot.

What's wrong with the word wobble? That's what it does.
Stop making me be your guys' dictionary.
Wobble Definition
v. verb
To move or rotate with an uneven or rocking motion or unsteadily from side to side.
Don't be looking up definitions. Look at your logic and ask yourself why the sun or the earth would WOBBLE in your space.
The answer is obviously quite simple. It's to cater for the discrepancies of what is noted at certain times on earth. It's so ludicrous, it shocks me that normal rational people cannot see the absolute bull crap in it all. Seriously it does.

What discrepancies? Actually it proves that nothing is in perfect balance in our solar system really not to mention the planets also affect the sun's movement with uhm... what is that word..? I'm gonna say it... Gravity!

Animated stereo twin space craft picture of the sun:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/BLUE_STEREO_3D_Time_for_Space_Wiggle.gif)
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:49:24 AM
Don't be looking up definitions. Look at your logic and ask yourself why the sun or the earth would WOBBLE in your space.
The answer is obviously quite simple. It's to cater for the discrepancies of what is noted at certain times on earth. It's so ludicrous, it shocks me that normal rational people cannot see the absolute bull crap in it all. Seriously it does.
Why is it ludicrous to have a solution for "discrepancies" in any theory?
Just a general question, because round Earth is certainly not a theory.
The Sun and Earth both wobble because of opposing gravitational pulls.
The poles are slightly bulged.
This results in a slight wobble.
Have you substantiated enough evidence to call any of your half-baked ideas theories?
I'd think not.
Have a read back at what you are saying and maybe, just maybe you might...one day...hear a clink. If you do...that will be the penny dropping and you will at least know that it's time to think alternatively to the drivel you have been fed. It would be a massive start for you and then you can go back to basics.
Slightly bulged.
Slight wobble.

I'd love to swear and tell you to go and get la la la...but I'm smirking and also we are in the upper forums, so I'll just say: search your mind and stop being led by the big howling wolves. Howl back and take the lead and don't be intimidated into following a model that you know 100% is not correct.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 02:51:52 AM
Wobbles! have a word for crying out loud. All this fantastic space stuff of so called superb ballerina type planets all working like clockwork and we have a few with weak ankles, so they WOBBLE.
Take some time out and look in the mirror and have a real good word with yourself and don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone, even if they tell you that the earth is a square block, because what you subscribe to is the silliest of the lot.

What's wrong with the word wobble? That's what it does.
Stop making me be your guys' dictionary.
Wobble Definition
v. verb
To move or rotate with an uneven or rocking motion or unsteadily from side to side.
Don't be looking up definitions. Look at your logic and ask yourself why the sun or the earth would WOBBLE in your space.
The answer is obviously quite simple. It's to cater for the discrepancies of what is noted at certain times on earth. It's so ludicrous, it shocks me that normal rational people cannot see the absolute bull crap in it all. Seriously it does.

What discrepancies? Actually it proves that nothing is in perfect balance in our solar system really not to mention the planets also affect the sun's movement with uhm... what is that word..? I'm gonna say it... Gravity!

Animated stereo twin space craft picture of the sun:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/BLUE_STEREO_3D_Time_for_Space_Wiggle.gif)
There is no hope for you. Absolutely no hope whatsoever. Don't "you" and your other cyborgs, ever mention that this forum is a joke when you post stupidity like that.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 03:00:04 AM
Have a read back at what you are saying and maybe, just maybe you might...one day...hear a clink. If you do...that will be the penny dropping and you will at least know that it's time to think alternatively to the drivel you have been fed. It would be a massive start for you and then you can go back to basics.
Slightly bulged.
Slight wobble.

I'd love to swear and tell you to go and get la la la...but I'm smirking and also we are in the upper forums, so I'll just say: search your mind and stop being led by the big howling wolves. Howl back and take the lead and don't be intimidated into following a model that you know 100% is not correct.
This is the classic scepti defense.
"All I know is that I'm 100% right. You are all brainwashed and closed-minded."
But that's a self-contradicting statement.
I keep an open mind, scepti.
I'm just sane.
I'm sorry you don't get to experience what it's like to have clear and distinguished thoughts that follow a logical pattern from a start to a conclusion.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 03:03:58 AM
There is no hope for you. Absolutely no hope whatsoever. Don't "you" and your other cyborgs, ever mention that this forum is a joke when you post stupidity like that.

More professional debating skills coming from FE's.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 03:08:23 AM
Have a read back at what you are saying and maybe, just maybe you might...one day...hear a clink. If you do...that will be the penny dropping and you will at least know that it's time to think alternatively to the drivel you have been fed. It would be a massive start for you and then you can go back to basics.
Slightly bulged.
Slight wobble.

I'd love to swear and tell you to go and get la la la...but I'm smirking and also we are in the upper forums, so I'll just say: search your mind and stop being led by the big howling wolves. Howl back and take the lead and don't be intimidated into following a model that you know 100% is not correct.
This is the classic scepti defense.
"All I know is that I'm 100% right. You are all brainwashed and closed-minded."
But that's a self-contradicting statement.
I keep an open mind, scepti.
I'm just sane.
I'm sorry you don't get to experience what it's like to have clear and distinguished thoughts that follow a logical pattern from a start to a conclusion.
There's nothing open about your mind, except to be open to more global earth mumbo jumbo.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Scintific Method on January 01, 2014, 04:37:55 AM
...don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone...

So you won't mind if I totally ignore yours then? Given that your "theory" has nothing other than your imagination to back it up, I think I'll stick to the theories which have repeatable experimental evidence on their side. Cheers!
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 05:26:22 AM
...don't ever dare put down ANY theory from anyone...

So you won't mind if I totally ignore yours then? Given that your "theory" has nothing other than your imagination to back it up, I think I'll stick to the theories which have repeatable experimental evidence on their side. Cheers!
You can ignore mine for as long as you live, it's no skin off my nose.  I'm under no illusions whatsoever about your total brainwashed mind ever changing. You're too far gone for that.
You stick to your repeatable experimentation of absolutely nothing and keep believing it all, because, after all, it's all there in your science FICTION books that you can readily slide from your local library, book shelves or your university or wherever you pick the fiction up from.

The truth is...most of you are scared to think alternately because you are mostly timid little creatures that would not dare to question your peers and will follow them like faithful little dogs, where a pat on the head will suffice for getting a TICK on your exam paper for remembering things that were earlier, placed into your mind that you fought to keep at the fore front in readiness for the big test.

Your life and your history is based on half truths, misinformation and downright lies. Picking through it is not easy, even I will admit that, but I'm willing to try.
Your space science is based on TOTAL lies and misinformation. The problem is...how many people actually know it's all lies? how many people , including so called astrophysicists and astronomers, actually know what the hell they are even looking at, except for what they were taught to look at? how many are really thinking, " hmmm...this just not seem right."

The real truth is...most people ...and I mean MOST...are oblivious to most things that are not a part of their daily grind, as they are too focused on simply getting by in life to even realise what the earth actually is, in any way, shape or form.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Excelsior John on January 01, 2014, 07:17:13 AM
The air is not perfectly transparent.  Even with the most powerful telescope you could not see forever.
Jroa explaned it perfecley
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on January 01, 2014, 07:33:33 AM
The Sun is certainly not stationary.

depends on your frame of reference.

Nobody lives on the Sun.

that's not a requirement for a frame of reference.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 07:39:51 AM
Quote

If you were to rub your stick along a stone at a slow pace, you will find that your stick becomes warm and makes a reasonably audible sound. If you speed up that rubbing, you find that the audible sound gets less and less and yet the stick starts to glow at the end.

This is all you should need to know to tell you that you do not get light, no matter how much you think it over...if you do not have SOUND.


Oh dear... this reasoning is so wrong on all counts I dunno where to start LOL.

I just can't believe that sceptimatic's "understanding" of simple science is so lacking!  He seems determined to conflate two entirely different energy sources into one.  That is; oxidation (or burning) with sound.

I'd like to ask sceptimatic to listen to a burning 60 watt light bulb in his house, and tell me what sort of "sound" it's making?  Or listen to a 9V globe in a battery flashlight, or an LED (light-emitting diode) timer on his oven.

What he will notice is that along with light, heat is produced, but not any sounds whatsoever.

He's also obviously unaware of luminescent animals that glow—with light—without making a single peep or squeak.


—And I can't wait for his response to this one.
 
 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 07:45:27 AM

I can accept I'm wrong on any occasion as long as it's against another logical reasoning. You and your crew do not know the meaning of the word, logic.


Sorry, but I have never seen any evidence to support this claim.  In your own mind maybe, but in the real world the rest of us inhabit, it ain't gonna happen.

Thanks for the LULZ my friend.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 07:52:21 AM

 Don't be looking up definitions.


Shit no!  That's the last thing any conscientious investigator of scientific claims needs to do!  What were we thinking?

Much better to totally ignore several centuries' worth of scientific data and proven theories about our planet and its solar system.

Obviously the sun moves in a circular orbit, and the earth is flat, and gravity doesn't exist.  Why would anybody question that sound reasoning—backed up by.....?

[EDIT:  spell checker not working WTF?]
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 08:00:05 AM
Quote

If you were to rub your stick along a stone at a slow pace, you will find that your stick becomes warm and makes a reasonably audible sound. If you speed up that rubbing, you find that the audible sound gets less and less and yet the stick starts to glow at the end.

This is all you should need to know to tell you that you do not get light, no matter how much you think it over...if you do not have SOUND.


Oh dear... this reasoning is so wrong on all counts I dunno where to start LOL.

I just can't believe that sceptimatic's "understanding" of simple science is so lacking!  He seems determined to conflate two entirely different energy sources into one.  That is; oxidation (or burning) with sound.

I'd like to ask sceptimatic to listen to a burning 60 watt light bulb in his house, and tell me what sort of "sound" it's making?  Or listen to a 9V globe in a battery flashlight, or an LED (light-emitting diode) timer on his oven.

What he will notice is that along with light, heat is produced, but not any sounds whatsoever.

He's also obviously unaware of luminescent animals that glow—with light—without making a single peep or squeak.


—And I can't wait for his response to this one.
It's not me that's lacking, it's you lacking the ability to use some logic that you clearly have, yet refuse to bring it to the fore, because you are too busy babysitting a shed full of lies.

Why do you think that humans show heat source when seen through infra red?
Just because your normal eyes don't see it and you don;t hear it, doesn't mean it's not there. Use your head for crying out loud.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 08:01:31 AM

 Don't be looking up definitions.


Shit no!  That's the last thing any conscientious investigator of scientific claims needs to do!  What were we thinking?

Much better to totally ignore several centuries' worth of scientific data and proven theories about our planet and its solar system.

Obviously the sun moves in a circular orbit, and the earth is flat, and gravity doesn't exist.  Why would anybody question that sound reasoning—backed up by.....?

[EDIT:  spell checker not working WTF?]
You're getting there. Slowly but surely. Keep it up.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 08:40:17 AM

Why do you think that humans show heat source when seen through infra red?


Because all living objects emit infrared radiation (or black-body radiation) which is detected by a thermographic camera.  Simple.

Anyway, what does this particular question have to do with your light and sound theory?  And have you listened to some light sources as I suggested to see if they're making any noise?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 09:34:05 AM

Why do you think that humans show heat source when seen through infra red?


Because all living objects emit infrared radiation (or black-body radiation) which is detected by a thermographic camera.  Simple.

Anyway, what does this particular question have to do with your light and sound theory?  And have you listened to some light sources as I suggested to see if they're making any noise?
We emit light because our bodies are under friction, all the time, like everything is, including your LED lights.
You can no more hear them than you can hear a dog whistle over a short distance, but the noise is there, it's just that we are too primitive to notice it.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 09:44:34 AM

You can no more hear them than you can hear a dog whistle over a short distance, but the noise is there, it's just that we are too primitive to notice it.


Then can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?  What electronic instrument can you suggest that would amplify the sound and make it audible to a human?

And does an incandescent light bulb emit a different sound to an LED or a flashlight bulb?

You also claim that the sounds are too high for human hearing to detect; what then are the frequencies you're talking about?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 10:04:57 AM

You can no more hear them than you can hear a dog whistle over a short distance, but the noise is there, it's just that we are too primitive to notice it.


Then can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?  What electronic instrument can you suggest that would amplify the sound and make it audible to a human?

And does an incandescent light bulb emit a different sound to an LED or a flashlight bulb?

You also claim that the sounds are too high for human hearing to detect; what then are the frequencies you're talking about?
What instrument would you suggest a person could use to hear a bell in a partially evacuated chamber?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 11:50:09 AM

What instrument would you suggest a person could use to hear a bell in a partially evacuated chamber?


It's patently obvious that you're trying to avoid answering my question by simply asking me another one. That distraction won't work here I'm afraid.

So I'll ask you again, and expect an answer:

How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?  What electronic instrument can you suggest that would amplify the sound and make it audible to a human?
 
 
[EDIT: fixed quote code]

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 11:53:08 AM
It's patently obvious that you're trying to avoid answering my question by simply asking me another one. That distraction won't work here I'm afraid.

So I'll ask you again, and expect an answer:

How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?  What electronic instrument can you suggest that would amplify the sound and make it audible to a human?
When I find out what can be used to hear the sound of a bell in a partially evacuated chamber I will let you know. In the mean time, do you know of anything that could do this?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 01, 2014, 12:11:06 PM
I mean really? Do you guys need to be this silly.

Visible light is electromagnetic radiation, transverse waves between 400 and 700 nm in wavelength.

Higher frequencies give x-rays gamma rays and all sorts of dangerous things. Lower frequencies gives infra red, radio waves and microwaves.

It moves at 299,792 km/s

Sound is longitudinal pressure waves that requires a mass medium and is audible between 20 Hz and 20,000 Hz for humans.

Lower frequencies struggles to sustain and becomes wind rather than sound. Higher frequencies are used in the industry as ultrasonic sound that can travel through tissue reflecting of harder surfaces with great precision.

It moves at 343 m/s at see level atmospheric pressure.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 01, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
I mean really? Do you guys need to be this silly.

Visible light is electromagnetic radiation, transverse waves between 400 and 700 nm in wavelength.

Higher frequencies give x-rays gamma rays and all sorts of dangerous things. Lower frequencies gives infra red, radio waves and microwaves.

It moves at 299,792 km/s

Sound is longitudinal pressure waves that requires a mass medium and is audible between 20 Hz and 20,000 Hz for humans.

Lower frequencies struggles to sustain and becomes wind rather than sound. Higher frequencies are used in the industry as ultrasonic sound that can travel through tissue reflecting of harder surfaces with great precision.

It moves at 343 m/s at see level atmospheric pressure.
Everything on earth is magnetic. The air you breathe is all magnetic.
If you start thinking about bar magnets and stuff then you will just confuse the issue.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 01, 2014, 12:39:19 PM

When I find out what can be used to hear the sound of a bell in a partially evacuated chamber I will let you know. In the mean time, do you know of anything that could do this?


Here's your answer:  BELL IN EVACUATED BELL JAR (http://bit.ly/JK3O42)

So I'll now await your answer to my question:

"How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?"
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 01:05:41 PM
Have a read back at what you are saying and maybe, just maybe you might...one day...hear a clink. If you do...that will be the penny dropping and you will at least know that it's time to think alternatively to the drivel you have been fed. It would be a massive start for you and then you can go back to basics.
Slightly bulged.
Slight wobble.

I'd love to swear and tell you to go and get la la la...but I'm smirking and also we are in the upper forums, so I'll just say: search your mind and stop being led by the big howling wolves. Howl back and take the lead and don't be intimidated into following a model that you know 100% is not correct.
This is the classic scepti defense.
"All I know is that I'm 100% right. You are all brainwashed and closed-minded."
But that's a self-contradicting statement.
I keep an open mind, scepti.
I'm just sane.
I'm sorry you don't get to experience what it's like to have clear and distinguished thoughts that follow a logical pattern from a start to a conclusion.
There's nothing open about your mind, except to be open to more global earth mumbo jumbo.

I'm open to literally any alternative to anything so long as it makes sense.
The last 6 words of the sentence above are my problem with your idea.
Not theory. Idea.
I'm extremely agnostic when it comes to science and spirituality.
In my unbiased studies on the subject I've concluded that the Earth is indeed round.
If anything, scepti, YOU are the closed minded one, as you never even try to learn about any "whacky nonsensical round Earth mumbo jumbo".
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: mohamed on January 01, 2014, 01:48:17 PM
dear th3rm0m3t3r0,
keep watching me in Algeria,
it's 22:40 PM (to night) but
I'm watching the sun now,
 it's getting more and more
 closer to its boiling spring! :(
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: mohamed on January 01, 2014, 02:01:39 PM
Further more 22:40 in the Quran is:

"[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might."
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on January 01, 2014, 06:33:25 PM
dear th3rm0m3t3r0,
keep watching me in Algeria,
it's 22:40 PM (to night) but
I'm watching the sun now,
 it's getting more and more
 closer to its boiling spring! :(
Not sure what that means.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 02, 2014, 07:56:16 AM

When I find out what can be used to hear the sound of a bell in a partially evacuated chamber I will let you know. In the mean time, do you know of anything that could do this?


Here's your answer:  BELL IN EVACUATED BELL JAR (http://bit.ly/JK3O42)

So I'll now await your answer to my question:

"How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?"

I'm still awaiting your answer to this question sceptimatic 24 hours later.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 07:58:04 AM

When I find out what can be used to hear the sound of a bell in a partially evacuated chamber I will let you know. In the mean time, do you know of anything that could do this?


Here's your answer:  BELL IN EVACUATED BELL JAR (http://bit.ly/JK3O42)

So I'll now await your answer to my question:

"How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?"

I'm still awaiting your answer to this question sceptimatic 24 hours later.
I answered. Look back.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 02, 2014, 10:25:53 AM

I answered. Look back.


Nope.  You avoided the my question totally.

This is the only post you made since I asked you (and after I posted my video link of the ringing bell in the evacuated jar):

Quote
Everything on earth is magnetic. The air you breathe is all magnetic.
If you start thinking about bar magnets and stuff then you will just confuse the issue.

How then can you claim to have answered my question:  How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?




Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 10:39:00 AM

I answered. Look back.


Nope.  You avoided the my question totally.

This is the only post you made since I asked you (and after I posted my video link of the ringing bell in the evacuated jar):

Quote
Everything on earth is magnetic. The air you breathe is all magnetic.
If you start thinking about bar magnets and stuff then you will just confuse the issue.

How then can you claim to have answered my question:  How can you—personally—hear the sound that a light bulb is making if you're "too primitive" to notice it?
I can't personally hear it and like I explained before. If you can find something that can personally hear the bell in a partially evacuated chamber then let me know, as it may be the very thing that can also hear the sound in a bulb. How's that?
I already told you this but you must have gone blind.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 02, 2014, 10:50:26 AM
I can't personally hear it and like I explained before.

Thank you.  That was the admission I was seeking after you claimed that light bulbs made a noise.  So you obviously can't be certain that they do?  Apparently you're relying on third-party evidence, which you yourself always dismiss as being unacceptable in any argument.   According to you, if one can't hear or see something personally, then it's not guaranteed to be authentic, and is nothing more than hearsay.

So now you're moving the goalposts in an attempt to justify the faulty logic of your argument.  Not good enough.

Quote
If you can find something that can personally hear the bell in a partially evacuated chamber then let me know, as it may be the very thing that can also hear the sound in a bulb. How's that?

I've already posted the video link:  HERE (http://bit.ly/JK3O42)
 

The sound is being picked up by the microphone on an ordinary digital camera.

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 11:16:01 AM
I can't personally hear it and like I explained before.

Thank you.  That was the admission I was seeking after you claimed that light bulbs made a noise.  So you obviously can't be certain that they do?  Apparently you're relying on third-party evidence, which you yourself always dismiss as being unacceptable in any argument.   According to you, if one can't hear or see something personally, then it's not guaranteed to be authentic, and is nothing more than hearsay.

So now you're moving the goalposts in an attempt to justify the faulty logic of your argument.  Not good enough.

Quote
If you can find something that can personally hear the bell in a partially evacuated chamber then let me know, as it may be the very thing that can also hear the sound in a bulb. How's that?

I've already posted the video link:  HERE (http://bit.ly/JK3O42)
 

The sound is being picked up by the microphone on an ordinary digital camera.

So what do you think about this?
WIll Light Bulbs Make Sound? Experiment (http://#)

Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 02, 2014, 11:49:47 AM
So what do you think about this?

You tell us scepti?

Is it the light producing sound or the vibration of the light bulbs on an alternating current?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:59:41 AM
That is nice.  He made a simple speaker.

He hooked some christmas lights to a home stereo, glued them to some paper, then put a magnet near them.  He could have done that my just coiling some wire and gluing that to the paper.

You do realize how speakers work right Scepti?

So now.  Tell me, how does this show that sound and light are the same thing?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 12:06:55 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 12:20:45 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.

Once again.  You can't prove anything to me because YOU haven't done any sort of investigative experiments.  If light and sound are the same, then develop an experiment and show it.

If atmospheric pressure caused what we perceive as gravity, develop an experiment and prove it.

List what you have done in your experiments and let everyone here know about them.  GIve us enough information to repeat the experiments.  It is that simple scepti. 

When questioned to elaborate on your ideas, don't just say "Figure it out yourself.  Use your logic" 
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 12:24:23 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.

Once again.  You can't prove anything to me because YOU haven't done any sort of investigative experiments.  If light and sound are the same, then develop an experiment and show it.

If atmospheric pressure caused what we perceive as gravity, develop an experiment and prove it.

List what you have done in your experiments and let everyone here know about them.  GIve us enough information to repeat the experiments.  It is that simple scepti. 

When questioned to elaborate on your ideas, don't just say "Figure it out yourself.  Use your logic"
You mean, I have to develop experiments to prove what I'm saying and you lot can provide none to back up anything you lot say?
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 12:29:41 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.

Once again.  You can't prove anything to me because YOU haven't done any sort of investigative experiments.  If light and sound are the same, then develop an experiment and show it.

If atmospheric pressure caused what we perceive as gravity, develop an experiment and prove it.

List what you have done in your experiments and let everyone here know about them.  GIve us enough information to repeat the experiments.  It is that simple scepti. 

When questioned to elaborate on your ideas, don't just say "Figure it out yourself.  Use your logic"
You mean, I have to develop experiments to prove what I'm saying and you lot can provide none to back up anything you lot say?

Except we show you literature and we do back up what we say.  You just dismiss it as science mumbo jumbo.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: ausGeoff on January 02, 2014, 12:46:55 PM
The rare-earth magnet simply induces a tiny eddy current in the wires connecting the diodes.

You don't even need to have the lights themselves in the circuit to get this effect.

At any rate, the amplified sound is not produced by the electroluminescence of the LED itself, so there's no correlation of light with sound production.
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Moosedrool on January 02, 2014, 12:52:25 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.

Once again.  You can't prove anything to me because YOU haven't done any sort of investigative experiments.  If light and sound are the same, then develop an experiment and show it.

If atmospheric pressure caused what we perceive as gravity, develop an experiment and prove it.

List what you have done in your experiments and let everyone here know about them.  GIve us enough information to repeat the experiments.  It is that simple scepti. 

When questioned to elaborate on your ideas, don't just say "Figure it out yourself.  Use your logic"
You mean, I have to develop experiments to prove what I'm saying and you lot can provide none to back up anything you lot say?

We could repeat the countless of experiments performed in history that turned the public's view into the accepted round model. Which is what 99.999% of the population agree's with. Numerous experimental methods performed in history has been pointed out but was just debunked by your little group here that claims they are scientists in their own right.

Your claim is that the earth is flat while it is accepted as round. You claim that whateverpressure is the cause for motion and gravity. You are claiming that sound and light are the same thing. Thus you do have something called the burden of proof I guess. We are on FES right?

I would however stress: No scientists ever walks into the field without understanding, "not accepting, just understanding" the fundamental laws of physics. Not because of just because, but it's that you wouldn't be the first one getting but hurt with radical theories. A great eye opener as to what extraordinary results the experiment needs to give to uhm, let's say, falsify Newton's 3 laws of motion. lel
Title: Re: How far could you see?
Post by: Spank86 on January 02, 2014, 12:54:30 PM
I can't prove anything to you people. You lot are so thoroughly brainwashed or ordered to keep up a ruse that nothing can be said, shown or anything else that can make you even give it a thought. Your minds are already made up, which is fair enough, because I was under no illusions that I was dealing with anything less.

Once again.  You can't prove anything to me because YOU haven't done any sort of investigative experiments.  If light and sound are the same, then develop an experiment and show it.

If atmospheric pressure caused what we perceive as gravity, develop an experiment and prove it.

List what you have done in your experiments and let everyone here know about them.  GIve us enough information to repeat the experiments.  It is that simple scepti. 

When questioned to elaborate on your ideas, don't just say "Figure it out yourself.  Use your logic"
You mean, I have to develop experiments to prove what I'm saying and you lot can provide none to back up anything you lot say?

we showed you a bell in a (partial) vacuum chamber. the bell noise got quieter as it was evacuated but you could still see through the chamber to see the bell and indeed the wall behind it showing that light but not sound can travel through a partially evacuated chamber.

Or that the video was faked for some obscure reason i guess. No idea why someone would go to all that trouble though.