The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Mizuki on August 01, 2012, 10:01:59 AM
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Last week i was on one of the local high points looking out across the horizon. It was a uerry clear day but for a line of clouds that were pretty high up in the sky.
It dawned on me that the clouds must haue been spread across many miles, but their bottom edge formed a more or less straight line.
If the earth was a globe wouldn"t they form a slight curue?
I"ue looked on google images, but can"t quite find a picture of the clouds that shows well enough what i uiewed.
Mizuki x
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Probably the same reason the horizon also looks flat across one's field of view. The curve isn't discernible enough at that distance.
Also, get another keyboard.
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Probably the same reason the horizon also looks flat across one's field of view. The curve isn't discernible enough at that distance.
Also, get another keyboard.
:)
Oh, this one is ok. I"ue gotten used to it. I haue an ipad these days, but i still prefer this old lap-top.
Mizuki x
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Probably the same reason the horizon also looks flat across one's field of view. The curve isn't discernible enough at that distance.
Also, get another keyboard.
:)
Oh, this one is ok. I"ue gotten used to it. I haue an ipad these days, but i still prefer this old lap-top.
Mizuki x
Perhaps you should hit the correct keys when you type then? If the Earth was much small you would notice a discernible curve, you would also notice that the gravitational field didn't pull you down at 9.8m/s2, but much less than that, unless the core was made of pure uranium or something ridiculous like that.
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Being it as the world looks flat from the window of an airliner above the clouds, it stands to reason that the world also looks flat at cloud level.
Interestingly enough the cloud layer itself forms a surface that looks as flat as the earth from above.
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Also, get another keyboard.
ohh thats whats wrong! ive always wondered, i thought it was your niche. i saw a 'v' in one of your posts the other day and i thought you were slipping.
the clouds can be used in a few ways to refute fet. nothing really solid though.
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There are many aspects of everyday life that give clues to a flat earth. It is truly the most eloquent and simplistic solution to the question of earth's shape. We do not have to rely on testimonials from a tiny fraction of people who claim to have seen the earths true shape; people who are well paid and bribed with free cars and easy "won" elections for their continued dedication to a fabricated story.
Simply opening your eyes will reveal the earth for what it is. Flat.
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That's all well and good except for the numerous observations you can also make that don't make much sense on a flat earth, one of the most obvious being the setting of the sun.
So yes, do open your eyes.
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That's all well and good except for the numerous observations you can also make that don't make much sense on a flat earth, one of the most obvious being the setting of the sun.
So yes, do open your eyes.
If the round earth is so staggeringly apparent, why did it need to be "proven"? Why do people instinctively know the earth is flat?
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If the round earth is so staggeringly apparent, why did it need to be "proven"? Why do people instinctively know the earth is flat?
It had to be "proven" because ancient flat-earth beliefs, unlike modern FET, fit with observations made in the parts of the world they came from. The sun moved under the earth at night, and the sky was a dome, both things that people "instinctively" know, to use your terminology.
There would be no reason to think the earth was curved because their flat-earth models fit for the smaller worlds they lived in, unless you happened to voyage a lot on water and noticed ships appearing to sink, or noticed shadows of differing lengths at the same time of day when moving north and south, etc.
We're much more aware of the rest of the world now, so FET has had to become a joke to fit with what we know.
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So, by "open your eyes," you really mean take as fact what others tell you they have seen on the open oceans?
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How silly of me to write a thoughtful reply, thinking I'd get an intelligent response.
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Okay, let's recap.
I said opening your eyes will show you clues of a flat earth.
You said there are numerous observations that prove a round earth and asked us to instead open our eyes.
I asked why a round earth needed to be proved if it was so obvious.
You cited an example (sinking ships) that, in context, led the reader to believe you had not personally witnessed it.
I called you on it by saying that you weren't really opening your eyes, you were just defaulting to what someone has told you that fits nicely with your preconceived model.
You dodged an answer and instead acted like you were insulted that my reply didn't meet your standards.
Does that about sum up our exchange? If so, I'm done with this one. It's a clearcut example of round-earth prejustice clogging up yet another forum topic.
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That's all well and good except for the numerous observations you can also make that don't make much sense on a flat earth, one of the most obvious being the setting of the sun.
So yes, do open your eyes.
Not sure where you got me relying on sinking ships from, I was just explaining what made ancient people doubt their flat earth models. We're in a far different situation today, considering I can call someone up who lives further to the west and ask them if the sun is still up when it's already set here, which makes the whole sun setting under the earth thing the ancients had going on unlikely.
Not that you're arguing in good faith, of course.
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We do not have to rely on testimonials from a tiny fraction of people who claim to have seen the earths true shape; people who are well paid and bribed with free cars and easy "won" elections for their continued dedication to a fabricated story.
Where's my free car?
I called you on it by saying that you weren't really opening your eyes, you were just defaulting to what someone has told you that fits nicely with your preconceived model.
I opened my eyes at Hoylake and witnessed the tips of blades of wind turbines disappearing below the horizon when pointing down and then miraculously re-appearing when pointing up. The world may be flat where you live Pongo but it isn't flat at Hoylake.
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There are many aspects of everyday life that give clues to a flat earth. It is truly the most eloquent and simplistic solution to the question of earth's shape.
The reason that a flat earth is the most simplistic solution to the question of the earth's shape is because it matches only the most simplistic observations. Even then, a flat earth only matches casual observations when the horizon is actually the edge of the earth. This is how ancient civilizations originally explained sunrise and sunset. However, the more the ancients explored and learned about the earth, the more they came to realize that there is far more to determining the shape of the earth than just "looking out a window".
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The regular practice of aeromancy, and specifically nephomancy, also produces powerful direct extra-sensorial evidence of the planar nature of our Earth, as well as the prevalence of aether. If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.
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The regular practice of aeromancy, and specifically nephomancy, also produces powerful direct extra-sensorial evidence of the planar nature of our Earth, as well as the prevalence of aether. If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.
This sounds like something the acid-head I know would say. Could you perhaps clarify?
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The regular practice of aeromancy, and specifically nephomancy, also produces powerful direct extra-sensorial evidence of the planar nature of our Earth, as well as the prevalence of aether. If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.
Yes, let the crazy flow. Soon you will be ready to commune with the moonshrimp queen.
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You know, now that I think about it, I think there was something in Warhammer 40k lore about Aether. I think the Eldar pyschers used it to move through warp gates or something.
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You know, now that I think about it, I think there was something in Warhammer 40k lore about Aether. I think the Eldar pyschers used it to move through warp gates or something.
There are advocates (obviously, look around) of the lumineferous aether, the most convincing person I have read on this subject is James Demao, although he also believes in Orgones. although, I am not going to rule either out completley, I do hold orgone to be about 1 out of 10 on my scale of proabability, and aether to be almost nil.
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This sounds like something the acid-head I know would say. Could you perhaps clarify?
I am describing subtler ways in which clouds provide evidence of the Earth's planar nature.
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Can you explain to me what all of the aforementioned things (substances?) are.
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Sorry? ???
That may well be the broadest question I have ever been asked on this forum.
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Sorry? ???
That may well be the broadest question I have ever been asked on this forum.
Alright if it's that much to explain, can you give me a rough idea?
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You know, now that I think about it, I think there was something in Warhammer 40k lore about Aether. I think the Eldar pyschers used it to move through warp gates or something.
There are advocates (obviously, look around) of the lumineferous aether, the most convincing person I have read on this subject is James Demao, although he also believes in Orgones. although, I am not going to rule either out completley, I do hold orgone to be about 1 out of 10 on my scale of proabability, and aether to be almost nil.
Einstein Relativity theory declares aether necessary! (http://#)
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You know, now that I think about it, I think there was something in Warhammer 40k lore about Aether. I think the Eldar pyschers used it to move through warp gates or something.
There are advocates (obviously, look around) of the lumineferous aether, the most convincing person I have read on this subject is James Demao, although he also believes in Orgones. although, I am not going to rule either out completley, I do hold orgone to be about 1 out of 10 on my scale of proabability, and aether to be almost nil.
Einstein Relativity theory declares aether necessary! (http://#)
Lol. Is that the author pretending to be Einstein with that fake voice? What a joke.
Also, Einstein was not advocating a luminerferous aether. He was describing a spacetime that is not empty and not static. See: The Cosmological Constant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant).
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Sorry? ???
That may well be the broadest question I have ever been asked on this forum.
Alright if it's that much to explain, can you give me a rough idea?
Sorry for the double post but... double post.
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You know, now that I think about it, I think there was something in Warhammer 40k lore about Aether. I think the Eldar pyschers used it to move through warp gates or something.
There are advocates (obviously, look around) of the lumineferous aether, the most convincing person I have read on this subject is James Demao, although he also believes in Orgones. although, I am not going to rule either out completley, I do hold orgone to be about 1 out of 10 on my scale of proabability, and aether to be almost nil.
Einstein Relativity theory declares aether necessary! (http://#)
I have no logically warrantable reason to entertain, or research, this clip. if you can give a more detailed context, background information &tc, please do so. thanks.
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Sorry? ???
That may well be the broadest question I have ever been asked on this forum.
Alright if it's that much to explain, can you give me a rough idea?
I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to be giving you a rough idea of. What substances?
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The regular practice of aeromancy, and specifically nephomancy, also produces powerful direct extra-sensorial evidence of the planar nature of our Earth, as well as the prevalence of aether. If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.
Thinking Man is simply asking for clarification of this post. An explanation or even a rough idea of what you are talking about.
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I think it's pretty self-explanatory. If he follows those steps with an open-mind, there's every chance he will come to know and experience the cloud in an extra-sensorial way.
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I think it's pretty self-explanatory. If he follows those steps with an open-mind, there's every chance he will come to know and experience the cloud in an extra-sensorial way.
Yet I don't know what those practices are. I've practiced the art of ingesting hallucinogens, and I had some experiences which some would consider religious, or connecting with a greater mind than myself, or experiencing aether. Are you talking about something like this? If so, I do not wish to do that.
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No, I am not talking about something like that. Otherwise it would have been included in my instructions.
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No, I am not talking about something like that. Otherwise it would have been included in my instructions.
Aeromancy and Nephomancy, what are they? It sounds like some pagan/new pagan ritual.
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No, I am not talking about something like that. Otherwise it would have been included in my instructions.
Aeromancy and Nephomancy, what are they? It sounds like some pagan/new pagan ritual.
The ancient arts of divination by clouds or weather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy)
http://www.occultopedia.com/n/nephomancy.htm (http://www.occultopedia.com/n/nephomancy.htm)
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No, I am not talking about something like that. Otherwise it would have been included in my instructions.
Aeromancy and Nephomancy, what are they? It sounds like some pagan/new pagan ritual.
The ancient arts of divination by clouds or weather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy)
http://www.occultopedia.com/n/nephomancy.htm (http://www.occultopedia.com/n/nephomancy.htm)
Oh dear. So it's like reading the tea leaves in the bottom of the cup, except with clouds. I was at least hoping it would be something creative, like the Incans and Ayahuasca, or the Native Americans with Marijuana. Nothing of the like I see.
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Producing delusions with substances is neither difficult nor instructive. It can be a lot of fun, but that is not the purpose of the above exercise. The aim of divination is to strike at true meanings and significances, to see beyond physical limits. It must be done with a clear and focussed mind.
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Producing delusions with substances is neither difficult nor instructive. It can be a lot of fun, but that is not the purpose of the above exercise. The aim of divination is to strike at true meanings and significances, to see beyond physical limits. It must be done with a clear and focussed mind.
See, I get that. I just haven't seen any evidence of anyone actually being able to divine the future. I also do not think it is possible this way, only with mathematics, and that can only go so far, as I do not think it can define human behavior.
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Personally I have had no success at divining the future, and I am of the opinion that it would take great power to do so. Alternative paths to knowledge of the present, are, however, possible, and require only the studied application of Self to Other.
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Personally I have had no success at divining the future, and I am of the opinion that it would take great power to do so. Alternative paths to knowledge of the present, are, however, possible, and require only the studied application of Self to Other.
You mean psychology? And what sort of "power" are you referring to?
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No, I do not mean psychology. If anything that is the application of one Self to another, which is a very different matter. As for the kind of power required, that I do not know, having had no experience of it. I speculate that a supreme mastery of the arcane would be needed. I doubt aeromancy would be suitable either - oneiromancy provides a much better platform, as in that case the unknown we explore is so familiar to us.
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See, I get that. I just haven't seen any evidence of anyone actually being able to divine the future. I also do not think it is possible this way, only with mathematics, and that can only go so far, as I do not think it can define human behavior.
The future is entirely predictable. Completely and utterly. Because of cause and effect. There's no mystery
You predict the future all the time. For example you buy food each week because you know in the future you will eat what you have left and require more. Its obvious you need more. Your body needs fuel, it will need more fuel. You'll need more food. Completely predictable.
The problem with predicting the future is when the variables start to increase in number and depend upon each other. Lets say you want to know who will win a baseball game. The weather is reasonably predictable but you don't know how that will effect a game. You don't know if one of the pitchers is carrying an injury or feels ill. You don't know if the referee will make a bad call. You don't know if the batsman is worrying about his divorce. And you don't know how all these things will effect the performance of the players to predict the score. But if you knew absolutely every factor, you'd be able to predict the future. You could assign numbers to everything and get a cold hard completely accurate score.
But we don't know all those little factors or how to express them. The best model we have is chaos theory, but frankly we aren't very good at it. We can't use it for accuracy.
Isaac Newton was obsessed with this. He believed he could predict the end of the earth using mathematics. After much messing about he decided the earth would end in 2060. For me it probably will. I'll be 82.
How did Newton arrive at the date 2060?
This did not involve the use of anything as complicated as calculus, which he invented, but rather simple arithmetic that could be performed by a child. Beginning in the 1670s and continuing to the end of his life in 1727, Newton considered several commencement dates for the formal institution of the apostate, imperial Church. Earlier commencement dates include 607 and 609 A.D. As Newton grew older, he pushed the time of the end further and further into the future. In Yahuda MS 7 Newton twice gives 800 A.D. for the beginning of "the Pope's supremacy". The year 800 is a significant one in history, as it is the year Charlemagne was crowned emperor of Rome in the west by Pope Leo III at St. Peter's in Rome. Since Newton believed that the 1260 years corresponded to the duration of the corruption of the Church, he added 1260 to 800 A.D. and arrived at the date 2060 for the "fall of Babylon" or cessation of the apostate Church. It seems that Newton believed the fall could perhaps begin somewhat before the end of the 1260-year period and continue for a short time afterward. Whatever the precise chronology, Newton believed that sometime shortly after the fall of the corrupt (Trinitarian, Catholic) Church, Christ would return and set up a 1000-year Kingdom of God on earth. On page 144 of his Observations (1733), Newton cited Daniel 7:26-27 as evidence of this:
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Newton espoused a premillenarian eschatology and thus held that Christ would return to earth to establish the Millennium.
Of course this is the same guy that thought he could turn lead into gold with alchemy, the same guy that burnt his parents house down deliberately as a child and of course the same guy that came up with that ridiculous theory called gravity that all you round earthers love so much.
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No, I do not mean psychology. If anything that is the application of one Self to another, which is a very different matter. As for the kind of power required, that I do not know, having had no experience of it. I speculate that a supreme mastery of the arcane would be needed. I doubt aeromancy would be suitable either - oneiromancy provides a much better platform, as n that case the unknown we explore is so familiar to us.
I see. It would probably take me a long time to learn about all of that stuff. I'm going to say for now, I don't understand in the slightest.
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It is the work of a lifetime.
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See, I get that. I just haven't seen any evidence of anyone actually being able to divine the future. I also do not think it is possible this way, only with mathematics, and that can only go so far, as I do not think it can define human behavior.
The future is entirely predictable. Completely and utterly. Because of cause and effect. There's no mystery
You predict the future all the time. For example you buy food each week because you know in the future you will eat what you have left and require more. Its obvious you need more. Your body needs fuel, it will need more fuel. You'll need more food. Completely predictable.
The problem with predicting the future is when the variables start to increase in number and depend upon each other. Lets say you want to know who will win a baseball game. The weather is reasonably predictable but you don't know how that will effect a game. You don't know if one of the pitchers is carrying an injury or feels ill. You don't know if the referee will make a bad call. You don't know if the batsman is worrying about his divorce. And you don't know how all these things will effect the performance of the players to predict the score. But if you knew absolutely every factor, you'd be able to predict the future. You could assign numbers to everything and get a cold hard completely accurate score.
But we don't know all those little factors or how to express them. The best model we have is chaos theory, but frankly we aren't very good at it. We can't use it for accuracy.
Isaac Newton was obsessed with this. He believed he could predict the end of the earth using mathematics. After much messing about he decided the earth would end in 2060. For me it probably will. I'll be 82.
How did Newton arrive at the date 2060?
This did not involve the use of anything as complicated as calculus, which he invented, but rather simple arithmetic that could be performed by a child. Beginning in the 1670s and continuing to the end of his life in 1727, Newton considered several commencement dates for the formal institution of the apostate, imperial Church. Earlier commencement dates include 607 and 609 A.D. As Newton grew older, he pushed the time of the end further and further into the future. In Yahuda MS 7 Newton twice gives 800 A.D. for the beginning of "the Pope's supremacy". The year 800 is a significant one in history, as it is the year Charlemagne was crowned emperor of Rome in the west by Pope Leo III at St. Peter's in Rome. Since Newton believed that the 1260 years corresponded to the duration of the corruption of the Church, he added 1260 to 800 A.D. and arrived at the date 2060 for the "fall of Babylon" or cessation of the apostate Church. It seems that Newton believed the fall could perhaps begin somewhat before the end of the 1260-year period and continue for a short time afterward. Whatever the precise chronology, Newton believed that sometime shortly after the fall of the corrupt (Trinitarian, Catholic) Church, Christ would return and set up a 1000-year Kingdom of God on earth. On page 144 of his Observations (1733), Newton cited Daniel 7:26-27 as evidence of this:
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Newton espoused a premillenarian eschatology and thus held that Christ would return to earth to establish the Millennium.
Of course this is the same guy that thought he could turn lead into gold with alchemy, the same guy that burnt his parents house down deliberately as a child and of course the same guy that came up with that ridiculous theory called gravity that all you round earthers love so much.
Well, you can't believe everything you read. Of course, he wasn't factoring in all these other variables. It would take extremely advanced understandings of mathematics, physics, and psychology, all tied together, to predict futures even a few years ahead accurately, never mind a millennium+. This level of mathematics is what is believed to have been used by the Mayans to create their calender that people get so hyped over.
I like the attempt to inspire a gravity debate, but this is honestly not the place.
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Producing delusions with substances is neither difficult nor instructive. It can be a lot of fun, but that is not the purpose of the above exercise. The aim of divination is to strike at true meanings and significances, to see beyond physical limits. It must be done with a clear and focussed mind.
Actually ayahuasca is well-known for its revelatory properties. An anthropologist named Jeremy Narby went as far as to suggest that shamans are able to access information at the molecular level through its ingestion. A lot of symbolism associated with the ingestion of ayahuasca is reminiscent of our understanding of DNA. He wrote an interesting book where he supports his theory called The Cosmic Serpent. Although his theory is presented within the context of science what I recall of his methods was surprisingly zetetic.
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I know John feels similarly, but it simply hasn't been my experience. That said, my experience has been limited.
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Drink some ayahuasca then. I don't personally think that a substance can help you divine the future, or gain any understand of physics, psychic energy, or anything really. Perhaps it may force you to go and explore your own mind (which has been my experience), and it may cause you to believe that you are developing a new sense, or becoming psychic, or whatnot. But even though that's what I believed when I'd taken dubious amounts of psychedelics, looking back, that is no longer what I think. After all, they say hindsight is 20x20.