The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: WardoggKC130FE on September 06, 2011, 03:56:26 PM
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.....than take public transportation.
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.....than take public transportation.
You joined the military, but you're afraid to take public transportation because there's a small risk of being shot? Just saying.
Also, that's terrible. Just terrible.
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.....than take public transportation.
You joined the military, but you're afraid to take public transportation because there's a small risk of being shot? Just saying.
Also, that's terrible. Just terrible.
Well, (assuming he is a vet) he acknowledged the risk when joining the military. Transportation should not have any.
Also: Just terrible.
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You should fear the black man. Also buy more guns to shoot the black man. It's the only way to protect those you love. It really is astonishing what will trigger a shooting these days.
Am I doing it right?
Is there a drinking game where you have to drink every time Fox News shows a black man committing a crime? I hope so. In just 2 and a half minutes they show the footage of the three guys shooting then running away 7 times. That's once every 20 seconds roughly.
Ask yourself: Is this confirming my prejudices or challenging them?
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I like how they got their black anchor and reporter to give the report.
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The bus driver didn't notice a bunch of disgruntled young african americans with gigantic assault rifles screaming outside?
You should fear the black man. Also buy more guns to shoot the black man. It's the only way to protect those you love. It really is astonishing what will trigger a shooting these days.
Am I doing it right?
Is there a drinking game where you have to drink every time Fox News shows a black man committing a crime? I hope so. In just 2 and a half minutes they show the footage of the three guys shooting then running away 7 times. That's once every 20 seconds roughly.
Ask yourself: Is this confirming my prejudices or challenging them?
Are you implying that had they been white the news wouldn't have done the same?
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I like how they got their black anchor and reporter to give the report.
Fox has a black anchor and reporter?!
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I like how they got their black anchor and reporter to give the report.
That's what proves Fox isn't racist!
(she looks more latina to me)
Are you implying that had they been white the news wouldn't have done the same?
No. I'm not implying it. I'm saying it.
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Dude, it was in philly.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-05/news/29854857_1_bus-shooting-elderly-woman
That's like being shocked when you get shot at in Newburgh (http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=NY&area=Newburgh).
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The man who criticized Chapman's parenting-- the target of all those bullets, according to prosecutors-- dove right on top of that four-year-old boy.
What the fuck kind of wording is this?
This man shields a child that he doesn't even know with his own body while under heavy fire. He should get a medal for that. And Fox News pisses all over that by implying that he was putting the child into danger, as well as using the most negative language possible to describe his action. Yeah, he "dove right on top of that four-year-old boy," as if he's a pedophile or something.
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You joined the military, but you're afraid to take public transportation because there's a small risk of being shot? Just saying.
I carry concealed. As long as I am not with my family, I am not worried about getting shot at. I also don't put myself in places that up those chances.
Dude, it was in philly.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-05/news/29854857_1_bus-shooting-elderly-woman
That's like being shocked when you get shot at in Newburgh (http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=NY&area=Newburgh).
Very true.
Or Boston (http://www.pointslocal.com/story/boston/285544/boy-17-charged-in-evanston-mcdonalds-shooting)
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Dude, it was in philly.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-05/news/29854857_1_bus-shooting-elderly-woman
That's like being shocked when you get shot at in Newburgh (http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=NY&area=Newburgh).
Very true.
Or Boston (http://www.pointslocal.com/story/boston/285544/boy-17-charged-in-evanston-mcdonalds-shooting)
Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
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Dude, it was in philly.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-05/news/29854857_1_bus-shooting-elderly-woman
That's like being shocked when you get shot at in Newburgh (http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=NY&area=Newburgh).
Very true.
Or Boston (http://www.pointslocal.com/story/boston/285544/boy-17-charged-in-evanston-mcdonalds-shooting)
Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
Or NYC (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Labor-Day-Violence-New-York-City-shootings-129268118.html) 70 people shot last weekend.
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I also don't put myself in places that up those chances.
Actually you do. By carrying a weapon you're increasing the chances of being injured. Ironically by your own weapon.
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Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
I really need to get a CHL.
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Can somone please explain to me how exactly carrying a concealed weapon will protect you from getting shot? I mean if somone wants you dead, then you're dead.
Unless of course, you have so many concealed weapons that theyre actually able to cover your entire body and stop any penetrating bullets.
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I think it works off the assumption that they miss first time or start shouting about how they have a gat before they start shooting. On topic, really the only thing you have to worry about on public transport is it crashing. This is big news for a reason.
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Also, avoid living in large cities. That's the real issue here.
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I catch the bus to and from work five days a week. It is generally pleasant, costs me less by an order of magnitude than driving a car would (after factoring in petrol, parking and vehicle registration costs), and to the best of my knowledge I have not yet been shot.
This may have something to do with the fact that I live in a country where they don't let people wave guns about as if they were popsicle sticks.
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Can somone please explain to me how exactly carrying a concealed weapon will protect you from getting shot? I mean if somone wants you dead, then you're dead.
Unless of course, you have so many concealed weapons that theyre actually able to cover your entire body and stop any penetrating bullets.
Watch the video again. Did you see how long it took from the time that guy brandished the weapon before he started shooting?
I also don't put myself in places that up those chances.
Actually you do. By carrying a weapon you're increasing the chances of being injured. Ironically by your own weapon.
Maybe for someone that doesn't handle fully loaded guns on a daily basis.
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I catch the bus to and from work five days a week. It is generally pleasant, costs me less by an order of magnitude than driving a car would (after factoring in petrol, parking and vehicle registration costs), and to the best of my knowledge I have not yet been shot.
This may have something to do with the fact that I live in a country where they don't let people wave guns about as if they were popsicle sticks.
This, very much. In Sweden, the largest problem I have with the public transport is the constant five- to ten-minute delays. It's frustrating to arrive at the bus stop ten minutes ahead of schedule on purpose only for the bus not to arrive until twenty minutes later.
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Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
I really need to get a CHL.
TX resident? I had no idea.
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Riding public transportation got me a shitload of free Asian porn, I got to see a large black woman feed her child (at least she covered up), and I see mentally unstable folks and disabled (also occasionally mentally unstable) war vets regularly. However, I have felt safe for all of my wonderful MBTA adventures.
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When I used to live 8 miles from work, rather tan lesws than a quarter of a mile, I used to get either the bus ior ride my bike to work (depending on the weather) It always used to amaze me how often riding my road bike with rock-hard tyres, minimal suspension and a seat apparently designed to castrate unwary riders was actually more comfortable than the monstrosities Travel West Midlands used to use. Not to mention that at rush hour my bike was about 10-20 minutes quicker and cheaper than the bus.
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Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
I really need to get a CHL.
TX resident? I had no idea.
Yep. Friend has one and it's tempting, but money is kind of tight right now and a shootin iron is low priority.
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This is strong evidence that concealed carry permits don't help.
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Or in Nevada when someone DOES have a pistol on him.
Http://www.NPR.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/09/07/140246027/
"I had my pistol; [but] I wasn't going up against an automatic rifle," Swagler told the Reno Gazette Journal afterward. "I'm sorry. I wish I would have shot him in the back now as he was going toward IHOP, but I wasn't clear on the situation."
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Or Houston (http://www.click2houston.com/news/27598215/detail.html)
I really need to get a CHL.
TX resident? I had no idea.
Yep. Friend has one and it's tempting, but money is kind of tight right now and a shootin iron is low priority.
Do you have a pistol already? You can conceal carry in your vehicle without a permit. I have a recommendation for one if you don't. Also the license itself isn't cheap. A couple hundred bucks for the class and state fees.
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This is strong evidence that concealed carry permits don't help.
Well, I'd say that they don't help in a situation like this. Engaging in shootouts in crowded places is not safe gun use, and I think most people who have experience with guns would understand this.
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This is strong evidence that concealed carry permits don't help.
Well, I'd say that they don't help in a situation like this. Engaging in shootouts in crowded places is not safe gun use, and I think most people who have experience with guns would understand this.
Experience with guns means nothing if you cannot shoot well. That's what concerns me most.
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If you shoot well at the range doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot well in such a situation. I'd imagine you'd be quite nervous.
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Pistol vs. Assualt rifle? Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus. Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.
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I'd rather carry chemical weaponry. For instance, a KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) and C12H22O11 (sugar) smoke grenade is easy to make and legal without a license. You don't have to aim, and if you add, say, pepper spray to the mixture you have the perfect weapon for defense.
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Pistol vs. Assualt rifle? Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus. Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.
In a crowded bus, a pistol is far more useful than an assault rifle. A bus has bars and things which tend to get in the way of a big feck off bandouk. It's why the Israelis invented the Uzi.
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If you shoot well at the range doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot well in such a situation. I'd imagine you'd be quite nervous.
That's very true.
Pistol vs. Assualt rifle? Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus. Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.
Cover an concealment. Considering the circumstances, I would take that over out in the open.
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Concealment yes, but not much cover, an assault rifle would go right through a bus I think. Your best bet is to get down and make yourself as small as possible. Shooting back at them would probably draw their fire to where you are, and I doubt the side of a bus would offer much protection from assault rifles would it?
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Concealment yes, but not much cover, an assault rifle would go right through a bus I think. Your best bet is to get down and make yourself as small as possible. Shooting back at them would probably draw their fire to where you are, and I doubt the side of a bus would offer much protection from assault rifles would it?
No, but anything is better than nothing. Acknowledging that you really have no idea how you are going to react when put in a situation like this, I am fairly certain had I been there the guy with the assault rifle wouldn't have got a shot off. At least that would have been my primary goal. They guy with the pistol would have been a secondary target, dealt with as time and situation permitted.
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That's a very difficult shot, you're good. Most folks like me just go to the firing range, I don't have any training in combat marksmanship.
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That's a very difficult shot, you're good. Most folks like me just go to the firing range, I don't have any training in combat marksmanship.
Actually it would have been quite easy. You are not the target of this particular guys aggression. She was pointing whomever it was that was bothering her or calling her the "n" word or whatever. Giving you plenty of time to take aim and fire. He wouldn't have even seen it coming. The secondary target would have been more of a problem after the first rounds were off. Now you are shooting at a target that is more than likely shooting back. But at least we are on somewhat equal ground. Handgun to handgun.
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Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.
Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.
Either way Here's what happened:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.
Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.
Maybe for someone that doesn't handle fully loaded guns on a daily basis.
Like criminals you mean?
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Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.
Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.
Either way Here's what happened:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.
Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.
Maybe for someone that doesn't handle fully loaded guns on a daily basis.
Like criminals you mean?
Or, were I on the bus,
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-I throw smoke grenade (now with tangy capsicum taste!)
-Dumb bitch and brother get scared and run away, or fall to the floor crying. So does everyone else. Police show up.
-Hailed as a monster elitist by Fox News
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Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.
Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.
Either way Here's what happened:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.
Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:
-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.
Agreed. I love being called a hero.
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Wardogg, do you play any First Person Shooter games?
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You know, Wardogg, I can already imagine you sitting in the dock as the prosecutor tells the jury about how a disgruntled veteran lashed out in a fit of racist violence and brutally murdered a young African-American man who was simply carrying a weapon at the time; all the while outside, an angry mob led by Jesse Jackson screams for your blood.
No offense meant, and I certainly don't think that you would be unjustified in shooting that thug. I'm just saying that an ambitious prosecutor could probably spin the whole thing into a racial issue.
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Can somone please explain to me how exactly carrying a concealed weapon will protect you from getting shot? I mean if somone wants you dead, then you're dead.
Unless of course, you have so many concealed weapons that theyre actually able to cover your entire body and stop any penetrating bullets.
Watch the video again. Did you see how long it took from the time that guy brandished the weapon before he started shooting?
>Implying that would happen every time
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This is strong evidence that concealed carry permits don't help.
Well, I'd say that they don't help in a situation like this. Engaging in shootouts in crowded places is not safe gun use, and I think most people who have experience with guns would understand this.
Exactly.
So in a crowded, confined area, pulling your pistol and firing isn't helpful.
In a situation where you can't assess the situation perfectly, firing your pistol isn't helpful.
In a situation where someone has an automatic weapon, firing your pistol isn't helpful.
In a situation where someone has shot at you first, firing your pistol isn't helpful.
So aside from someone pulling a knife on you and only you 10 feet away, exactly how helpful is a concealed gun?
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You know, Wardogg, I can already imagine you sitting in the dock as the prosecutor tells the jury about how a disgruntled veteran lashed out in a fit of racist violence and brutally murdered a young African-American man who was simply carrying a weapon at the time; all the while outside, an angry mob led by Jesse Jackson screams for your blood.
No offense meant, and I certainly don't think that you would be unjustified in shooting that thug. I'm just saying that an ambitious prosecutor could probably spin the whole thing into a racial issue.
In Philly, I'd probably agree. Although he was doing a little more than just "carrying" that weapon at that time. He screamed of intent. In TX would be a different story. Just ask Joe Horn. (http://) Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life. Or your own property. Of course that new Malcom X guy showed up at his house to protest and was run off by a bunch of bikers. But it was the same race card played. I have read a couple of interviews a few years after this happened. Mr. Horn regrets it every day. And I listen to those words, trust me.
True story. I had a buddy, just return from a tour in Afghanistan at home on leave in Alabama. Pulls into a McDs drive thru at about 11 at nite. Guy comes up to his window and points a .38 in his face and tells him to get out of the truck. My buddy obliges but as he is getting out draws his .45 from between his seats. My buddy is completely out of the vehicle with his firearm hidden behind his back and as the carjacker is coming around the door to get in the vehicle, shoots my buddy in the face. The round enter his cheek just below the eye and cleared out all the teeth on that side before coming to rest in fragments in his throat. My buddy brings his .45 up and begins to shoot empyting the magazine. Kills the carjacker. My buddy was white, the carjacker was black. The carjackers family claimed racism. Its always going to be there no matter how justified the shooting is. Here is the only news clip I could find about the incident. http://www.airforcetimes.com/legacy/com/1-292258-1418581.php (http://www.airforcetimes.com/legacy/com/1-292258-1418581.php) Everything else was just forum reprints of the same AP article from 2002. The account here by the AP is a little erroneous. He already had the weapon in hand when he was shot. But he was keeping out of sight and giving up his vehicle. Thats straight from the horses mouth. Or what he ended up left with. He is actually doing fine. Got out of the Corps when they wouldn't let him fly again due to sinus problems got married and has a couple great kids. Big Al your preflight pal. Damn shame.
No offense taken BTW. Carrying a concealed weapon brings upon a great responsibility. I will be the first to tell you not everyone that has a license to carry, should. For multiple reasons. But I think about the choice I may have to make in a split second every single time I strap that thing on.
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No offense taken BTW. Carrying a concealed weapon brings upon a great responsibility. I will be the first to tell you not everyone that has a license to carry, should. For multiple reasons. But I think about the choice I may have to make in a split second every single time I strap that thing on.
This.
My dad is always carrying a concealed weapon whenever he leaves his house. He used to be a cop in a pretty dangerous city, and I'm guessing he has the same mentality Wardog does when handling it.
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The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.
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The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.
It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.
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The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.
It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.
Then it's called a Hate Crime.
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If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?
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If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?
His truck was being stolen, not just his wallet. :P
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If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?
From what I understand, the .45 was hidden, he didn't bring it out until after he was shot. Of course I am going by the description and there is no way to know whether or not this actually happened. But the fact is, most people who want to rob you at gunpoint, or carjack you, are going to shoot your whether you are armed or not.
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The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.
It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.
That would be the MSNBC news outlook on it.
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Wardogg, do you play any First Person Shooter games?
Not since Duke Nukem and maybe some original Rainbow Six in 1999 or 2000.
If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?
From what I understand, the .45 was hidden, he didn't bring it out until after he was shot. Of course I am going by the description and there is no way to know whether or not this actually happened. But the fact is, most people who want to rob you at gunpoint, or carjack you, are going to shoot your whether you are armed or not.
Yes that's what he told me. Of course the guy could have caught a glimpse of it or something I don't know.
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
Only because the evidence shows us as much.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2011/08/15/gun_crimes_in_va_bars_dropped_when_concealed_carry_allowed
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
Only because the evidence shows us as much.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2011/08/15/gun_crimes_in_va_bars_dropped_when_concealed_carry_allowed
Thank you for providing us with this fair and balanced source.
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I'm getting very tired of these types of ad hominens.
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
And just like that, the discussion turned to shit.
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.....than take public transportation.
You can be shot anywhere, including your home. ???
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
False.
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Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life. Or your own property.
Incorrect. But it warms my heart to think that you would believe such. Feel free to test this law any time you like. The results will be most rewarding.
Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
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Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life. Or your own property.
Incorrect. But it warms my heart to think that you would believe such. Feel free to test this law any time you like. The results will be most rewarding.
Are you intentionally being obtuse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
The Joe Horn shooting controversy refers to the events of November 14, 2007, in Pasadena, Texas, United States when local resident Joe Horn shot and killed two men burgling his neighbor's home
On June 30, 2008 a Harris County grand jury cleared Mr. Horn by issuing a no-bill after two weeks of testimony.
Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
::)
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Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling. I was a bit facetious with the link I provided. The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime. How could it, its concealed. I choose not to be a victim.
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Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling. I was a bit facetious with the link I provided. The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime. How could it, its concealed. I choose not to be a victim.
How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.
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Are you intentionally being obtuse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.
Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.
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Are you intentionally being obtuse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.
Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.
WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.
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If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.
Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.
Care to point out where I am in error? In Texarse can I not use deadly force in defense of third party property? If it can be reasonably assumed that retrieval of said property will be impossible? IE your neighbor is getting is shit robbed by fucking punks.
You might want to think about a career change. It may not be too late.
Are you intentionally being obtuse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.
Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.
WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.
::) Just like a woman. Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.
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::) Just like a woman. Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.
WHOA. Reuben Cogburn is where my name comes from. True Grit has nothing to do with Texas. lrnurwestrns
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Are you intentionally being obtuse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.
Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.
WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.
No, no, I think he's referring to Rooster Cogburn. Am I right, Crusty?
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjA1ODA5NzY3MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNjYyMjU2._V1._SX306_SY450_.jpg)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01783/jeff-grit_1783061c.jpg)
As played by The Duke and The Dude, respectively.
EDIT: Damn it, Wardogg beat me to it.
Also, Crusty is correct. Horn's defense wasn't just that he was protecting his neighbor's property, but that supposedly one of the criminals charged at him when he confronted them. What set his case apart from others was that there is no "duty to retreat" law in Texas, therefore the fact that he initiated the personal conflict with the thieves was irrelevant.
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::) Just like a woman. Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.
WHOA. Reuben Cogburn is where my name comes from. True Grit has nothing to do with Texas. lrnurwestrns
Don't tell me, I know that. He is the one that made the implication.
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Also, Crusty is correct. Horn's defense wasn't just that he was protecting his neighbor's property, but that supposedly one of the criminals charged at him when he confronted them. What set his case apart from others was that there is no "duty to retreat" law in Texas, therefore the fact that he initiated the personal conflict with the thieves was irrelevant.
Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
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Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling. I was a bit facetious with the link I provided. The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime. How could it, its concealed. I choose not to be a victim.
How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.
Depends on the state. How about the wild south? This dude was drunk and the only account of the story is, wait for it, his. Because the two dead dudes in his boat aren't talking. Niether of them were armed either. Hmmm...a move may be in order.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/
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Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9 Section 21 Paragraph C
(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.
Since I can find no evidence that either men had a weapon, then I do not think it can be reasonably agreed that deadly force was required. Having them run away when you tell them not to is not justifiable use of deadly force.
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Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9 Section 21 Paragraph C
(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.
Since I can find no evidence that either men had a weapon, then I do not think it can be reasonably agreed that deadly force was required. Having them run away when you tell them not to is not justifiable use of deadly force.
And yet Joe Horn is a free man. Whether or not you think it was justifiable, it is by the letter of the law.
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Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.
Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.
Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling. I was a bit facetious with the link I provided. The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime. How could it, its concealed. I choose not to be a victim.
How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.
Depends on the state. How about the wild south? This dude was drunk and the only account of the story is, wait for it, his. Because the two dead dudes in his boat aren't talking. Niether of them were armed either. Hmmm...a move may be in order.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/
Your hanging on straws man. All these scenarios are so situational they don't prove how carrying a gun would save your life.
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I have to use examples from somewhere considering Ive never had to pull mine to defend myself.
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
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I think he's referring to Rooster Cogburn. Am I right, Crusty?
Correct.
Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9.
That wasn't Joe Horn's defence.
Good job too as it doesn't provide for shooting people in the back after they've just robbed your neighbour.
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Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!
This is what Americans really believe.
Only because the evidence shows us as much.
Are you suggesting beliefs follow from evidence? :o
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.
(I was kidding)
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There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
That's why people carry concealed. If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
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The great Northamerican problem is that almost anybody can have a gun. Here, in Spain, I need to pass a extemelly hard psicotechnical test to prove im able to handle a gun, a freaking psicological examination to prove i´m not crazy and finally an specifical test and dactillar prits recollection for forensic database. And that is for HAVING, not carrying on the street, not even using it for defence, HAVING a gun in my house. Also, some kinds of guns requiere me to store them in a safe on my house, from where only a permited guy can take it. And any weapon up from semiautomatic (inclusive) is ILLEGAL for civil use.
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There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
That's why people carry concealed. If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
Why would I want to show something false?
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.
The problem is those findings go both ways, if there is no corelation between gun laws and violent crimes, then what exactly is the reason for strict gun laws if they do not curb violent crime?
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The great Northamerican problem is that almost anybody can have a gun. Here, in Spain, I need to pass a extemelly hard psicotechnical test to prove im able to handle a gun, a freaking psicological examination to prove i´m not crazy and finally an specifical test and dactillar prits recollection for forensic database. And that is for HAVING, not carrying on the street, not even using it for defence, HAVING a gun in my house. Also, some kinds of guns requiere me to store them in a safe on my house, from where only a permited guy can take it. And any weapon up from semiautomatic (inclusive) is ILLEGAL for civil use.
America, FUCK YEAH!
There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
That's why people carry concealed. If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
Why would I want to show something false?
See, Liberals and Republicans can get along ;)
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And statistically you probably never will.
Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.
The problem is those findings go both ways, if there is no corelation between gun laws and violent crimes, then what exactly is the reason for strict gun laws if they do not curb violent crime?
Something has curbed violence. But having a concealed pistol permit isn't what has. It is my belief that improved crime prevention has helped. Followed by the restrictions on assault weapons and automatic weapons as well as stricter control on who can get a gun.
The problem isn't that people who can responsibly use guns carry them, it's people who shouldn't have guns that get them somehow either legally or illegally.
Strict gun laws help by keeping those who shouldn't have a gun from easily obtaining one. It's not foolproof and is often circumvented by the black market, but with strict gun laws, those who sell such guns have to find more creative ways to keep their inventory hidden.
There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.
That's why people carry concealed. If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
Why would I want to show something false?
See, Liberals and Republicans can get along ;)
I had a very long conversation with someone about 7 years ago on this subject. His argument and my subsequent research made me conclude that most people who carry guns legally are fine and those people don't have "crimes of passion" often enough to change the statistics. I also found that they don't actually help very often either so I figure, why bother fighting it? Let them have their guns. I personally prefer swords but that's just me.
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I always figured that the main reason people would want to change the law would be to reduce accidental deaths.
Also, I recall hearing that in cases of defense, having a gun worsened one's statistics because more often than not, it would be used against them. Wankers.
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One of the things that I hate about the gun control debate is that on the national level, it seems to have such poor representatives on both sides of the issue.