The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 01:19:43 AM

Title: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 01:19:43 AM
Simple proof:

Hypothesis: Three observers appropriately located will determine that Earth is round (north to south)

Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

Place three observers at least 3,000 miles apart on the same longitude and altitude above mean sea level at local noon on the same time and day. Each measures the angle to the Sun at that time.

Result: Each reports a significant different angle than the other two. The three angles will not agree as to the location of the Sun assuming the Earth is flat.

Conclusion: The Earth is round.

Hypothesis: Three observers appropriately located will determine that Earth is round (east to west)

Previously determined fact: EAT is false. The Earth is round (north to south).

Place three observers at least 3,000 miles apart on the same latitude and altitude above mean sea level during daylight hours for all on the same UT. Each measures the angle to the Sun at that time.

Result: Each reports a significant different angle than the other two. The three angles will not agree as to the location of the Sun assuming the Earth is flat.

Conclusion: The Earth is round.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 13, 2010, 02:10:03 AM
How can you come to a conclusion without actually doing the experiment?  ???
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 02:18:33 AM
How can you come to a conclusion without actually doing the experiment?  ???
Easily. I just use established facts, like you did in determining that at 45o latitude that the Sun's angle is 45o is your Wiki entry on the Sun's distance. It was good enough for you, right?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 13, 2010, 02:36:25 AM
Have you performed this experiment yourself?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 02:47:42 AM
Have you performed this experiment yourself?
Not directly, but once we agree that it's definitive, I will. Currently I rely on established facts as Tom Bishop does in his Wiki entry on the distance that the Sun is above the FE.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 13, 2010, 03:06:09 AM
Oh, so your "simple proof" actually turns out to be unsubstantiated conjecture. What a surprise!
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 03:12:20 AM
Oh, so your "simple proof" actually turns out to be unsubstantiated conjecture. What a surprise!
I have substantiated my conjecture. Do you challenge that? If so, tell me what's wrong with Tom's Wiki page.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 13, 2010, 03:31:07 AM
The only legitimate means for the substantiation of the result of an empirical experiment is the performance of that experiment. You have not performed this experiment, so the results you predict have not be adequately substantiated.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 03:38:56 AM
The only legitimate means for the substantiation of the result of an empirical experiment is the performance of that experiment. You have not performed this experiment, so the results you predict have not be adequately substantiated.
False. There are many legitimate means for substantiating a conjecture.

For example, we know that at high noon local time, the Sun's angle to the observer on the equinoxes is the complement of the observer's latitude. So we can infer that on that day, should we run the proposed experiment, at the Equator, at 45o N, and at the North Pole, we would get angle of 90o, 45o, and 0o respectively. With those reading, we know that the FE is false by this proof. We're also fortunate to have the Wiki entry to confirm two of those readings.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 13, 2010, 04:11:39 AM
As a zeteticist I clearly subscribe to higher standards of legitimacy than you. Your own epistemological laziness does not mitigate the inadequacy of your evidence.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 04:16:21 AM
As a zeteticist I clearly subscribe to higher standards of legitimacy than you. Your own epistemological laziness does not mitigate the inadequacy of your evidence.
I see. Do tell us us what standard of legitimacy has your conjecture that the Moon is flat and lit by its own biomass met. It seems to me that you have a double-standard regarding legitimacy. For shame.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Kira-SY on November 13, 2010, 04:55:33 AM
James, Tom Bishop, have you both performed Rowbotham experiments yourself? Have you tested UA, Bendy light, Ice wall by yourself? I don't think so (If you did, please provide), so I don't think you're in a possition to ask for it to ClockTower.
If we can discuss FE features in many threads with no single evidence (map?), we can discuss this.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 05:35:59 AM
The only legitimate means for the substantiation of the result of an empirical experiment is the performance of that experiment. You have not performed this experiment, so the results you predict have not be adequately substantiated.
Nice that you say that the FE is not adequately substantiated.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 13, 2010, 07:11:29 AM
As a zeteticist I clearly subscribe to higher standards of legitimacy than you. Your own epistemological laziness does not mitigate the inadequacy of your evidence.

So what you are saying - is that unless you observe or do the experiment itself you will not believe it - so you can believe in anything you want if and can continue to do so because you just refuse to to observe or do an experiment that would prove you wrong?

Berny
Eating pillsbury crescent rolls
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 13, 2010, 08:08:02 AM
Isn't it great that whenever you definitively point out a FE contradiction, they just vanish?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:18:11 AM
Isn't it great that whenever you definitively point out a FE contradiction, they just vanish?
I guess that they don't want to face the truth.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Kira-SY on November 13, 2010, 08:58:40 AM
Well, I guess this is becoming a Victory for...
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 13, 2010, 09:33:05 AM
Well, I guess this is becoming a Victory for...

Well, since no experimentation was done before coming to a conclusion...

Flat Earth
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 09:35:51 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 09:36:28 AM
Well, I guess this is becoming a Victory for...

Well, since no experimentation was done before coming to a conclusion...

Flat Earth
Actually, you did the experiment for us. We just take Rowbotham's word on the operation of the sextant and your entry in the Wiki and we have the three data points and the experiment is complete.

This only assumes that you did the experiment in the Wiki. You did do that before posting it, right?

So victory goes to Round Earth all thanks to you!
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 09:37:51 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 09:42:20 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: markjo on November 13, 2010, 09:56:08 AM
How can you come to a conclusion without actually doing the experiment?  ???

The same way that you can conclude that the sun is 3000 miles away without personally observing the sun at a latitude of 45 degrees at noon on the day of the equinox.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 09:58:41 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 10:11:28 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 10:17:10 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
I never said that my (Gerunds take the possessive.) not understanding did anything.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 10:19:49 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
I never said that my (Gerunds take the possessive.) not understanding did anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English) Gerunds can be used in a clause that serves as a noun phrase.

But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 10:49:07 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
I never said that my (Gerunds take the possessive.) not understanding did anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English) Gerunds can be used in a clause that serves as a noun phrase.

But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
Since they are nouns, they take adjectives. The pronoun form that modifies a noun is the possessive.
But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 10:51:47 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
I never said that my (Gerunds take the possessive.) not understanding did anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English) Gerunds can be used in a clause that serves as a noun phrase.

But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
Since they are nouns, they take adjectives. The pronoun form that modifies a noun is the possessive.
But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
They are not nouns. It is the same form as the present participle of the verb. The clause was:
'You are not understanding' and this is the subject of the main sentence that your lack of understanding does not make something a non-sequitur. When used as such, the auxiliary verb ('are' in this case) is omitted. Your sentence does not even make sense:

'your not understanding'
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 10:59:19 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is wrong. Therefore, all your remaining deductions is not correct.
Prove your outlandish claim.

Light bends. Therefore, EAT is not false.
Wrong. That's a non sequitur. You might as well say: Winds blows. Therefore, the Earth is round.
No, you may not. You not understanding it does not make it a non-sequitur.
I never said that my (Gerunds take the possessive.) not understanding did anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund#Gerunds_in_English) Gerunds can be used in a clause that serves as a noun phrase.

But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
Since they are nouns, they take adjectives. The pronoun form that modifies a noun is the possessive.
But, seriously, your argument was wrong.
They are not nouns. It is the same form as the present participle of the verb. The clause was:
'You are not understanding' and this is the subject of the main sentence that your lack of understanding does not make something a non-sequitur. When used as such, the auxiliary verb ('are' in this case) is omitted. Your sentence does not even make sense:

'your not understanding'
You can't even quote the phrase correctly. What a failure you are. You used as a noun phrase "you not understanding".

Understanding is a noun: either it's a gerund, which is a verb used as a noun, or it's just a noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/understanding_1 (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/understanding_1).

You even admit that it's the subject, and, what do you know, subjects are nouns.

Now can you just admit you're wrong, and return to your proof of EAT please.


Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 11:15:52 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 11:24:07 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
A) Prove Premise 1.
B) Prove Prove 2.
C) Justify your outlandish claim that any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct.
D) Show where I assumed Premise 1 to be invalid as a premise in my deductions.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 11:27:26 AM
a) Look out the window.
b) Look at a sunset.
c) Read the definition of a theory.

Read what others have written more carefully. I did not say you assumed premise 1 to be invalid (if you had used that, you would be making a circular argument). I said you assumed the conclusion from premise 1 and premise 2, namely that light bends to be invalid.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 11:35:42 AM
a) Look out the window.
b) Look at a sunset.
c) Read the definition of a theory.

Read what others have written more carefully. I did not say you assumed premise 1 to be invalid (if you had used that, you would be making a circular argument). I said you assumed the conclusion from premise 1 and premise 2, namely that light bends to be invalid.
a) Nothing I see out the windows proves that the Earth is flat.
b) I have. Nothing I see at sunset nothing that proves distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
c) I have. Nothing in that definition matches what you claim.
d) You said nothing about premise 2, or any conclusion from it, in that paragraph. Clearly you fail yet again.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 11:40:21 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
You can't take the unproven thing as a premise. You must show that the light bends without relying to the Earth shape. So, there are quite many experiments which show that the light travels in straight lines. Where is your experiment which shows that light bends?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 11:42:35 AM
a) Look out the window.
b) Look at a sunset.
c) Read the definition of a theory.

Read what others have written more carefully. I did not say you assumed premise 1 to be invalid (if you had used that, you would be making a circular argument). I said you assumed the conclusion from premise 1 and premise 2, namely that light bends to be invalid.
a) Nothing I see out the windows proves that the Earth is flat.
b) I have. Nothing I see at sunset nothing that proves distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
c) I have. Nothing in that definition matches what you claim.
d) You said nothing about premise 2, or any conclusion from it, in that paragraph. Clearly you fail yet again.

Remember that evidence can never prove a theory, but only support it. Does the observational evidence from your everyday experience contradict the Flat Earth assumption? If so, please state what evidence is that. Similarly, do you not agree that the bottom of the Sun first disappears from our view during a sunset? Same, do you not agree that for other observers to the West of your location the Sun looks overhead? Therefore, it cannot decrease in altitude, but actually recedes from you and approaches other observers, but always remains at the same height above Earth's surface. These sets of observational data are best modeled by a flat earth with light bending.

As far as d) is concerned, I think you are under the influence of some mind altering substance.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 11:43:27 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
You can't take the unproven thing as a premise. You must show that the light bends without relying to the Earth shape. So, there are quite many experiments which show that the light travels in straight lines. Where is your experiment which shows that light bends?
I don't have to have experiments to prove that light bends. I deduced it from the two premises.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 11:53:52 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
You can't take the unproven thing as a premise. You must show that the light bends without relying to the Earth shape. So, there are quite many experiments which show that the light travels in straight lines. Where is your experiment which shows that light bends?
I don't have to have experiments to prove that light bends. I deduced it from the two premises.
And how exactly you conclusively proved that the Earth is flat? And there may be other reasons why the ships disappear. Like they actually sink. Or water raises up between you and the ship. Your deduction is worthless until you devise some experiment which shows how the light actually bends.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 13, 2010, 11:54:08 AM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.

Well - no - the simplest explanation is that sun merely travels underneath the earth and pops up in the East the next morning.

This requires no bendy light theories and falls in with the fact the world seems flat to you when you look out your window.

I don't have to have experiments to prove that light bends. I deduced it from the two premises.

By that same train of thought anyone can deduce something different given the same two premises and have an equally valid proof.

Berny
Still - nobody has explained the stars.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 11:59:53 AM
a) Look out the window.
b) Look at a sunset.
c) Read the definition of a theory.

Read what others have written more carefully. I did not say you assumed premise 1 to be invalid (if you had used that, you would be making a circular argument). I said you assumed the conclusion from premise 1 and premise 2, namely that light bends to be invalid.
a) Nothing I see out the windows proves that the Earth is flat.
b) I have. Nothing I see at sunset nothing that proves distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
c) I have. Nothing in that definition matches what you claim.
d) You said nothing about premise 2, or any conclusion from it, in that paragraph. Clearly you fail yet again.

Remember that evidence can never prove a theory, but only support it. Does the observational evidence from your everyday experience contradict the Flat Earth assumption? If so, please state what evidence is that. Similarly, do you not agree that the bottom of the Sun first disappears from our view during a sunset? Same, do you not agree that for other observers to the West of your location the Sun looks overhead? Therefore, it cannot decrease in altitude, but actually recedes from you and approaches other observers, but always remains at the same height above Earth's surface. These sets of observational data are best modeled by a flat earth with light bending.

As far as d) is concerned, I think you are under the influence of some mind altering substance.
1) Prove your claim now in red text above.
2) Why do you limit me to everyday personal experiences? I reject that limitation as does Science.
3) How do you know that the Sun remains at the same height above the Earth's surface?
4) What observer to my distant West could possibly be in my everyday experience? I'm not there by definition.
5) How do you know that the Sun isn't really going below the horizon? Do you have to assume premise 1 first?
6) Without evidence that premise 1 is correct, I have to reject it and with it your entire argument.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Ski on November 13, 2010, 12:05:42 PM
You can't even quote the phrase correctly. What a failure you are.

If you cannot contribute anything but off-topic bickering and pendantry please step away from the computer and enjoy the fellowship of friends and family. This is hardly the first time you've been warned. Please consider this your final warning before you take an involuntary sabbatical.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 12:20:28 PM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
Well - no - the simplest explanation is that sun merely travels underneath the earth and pops up in the East the next morning.

This requires no bendy light theories and falls in with the fact the world seems flat to you when you look out your window.
If this were true, it would mean that it is day and night at ALL points on the Earth at the same time. However, this is contrary to observational evidence.


I don't have to have experiments to prove that light bends. I deduced it from the two premises.
By that same train of thought anyone can deduce something different given the same two premises and have an equally valid proof.
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 13, 2010, 12:24:04 PM
I can deduce anything I want if I craft the premises to suit the conclusion without regard for their veracity.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 12:39:01 PM
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.

 That the premise 1 isn't true.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 12:40:03 PM
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.

 That the premise 1 isn't true.

So, assuming premise 1 and premise 2, you deduce premise 1 is correct. WOW! You are a genius.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 12:46:29 PM
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.

 That the premise 1 isn't true.

So, assuming premise 1 and premise 2, you deduce premise 1 is correct. WOW! You are a genius.
I think you've erred, again. After you fix this, please tell us the reason that you need to assume premise 1.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 13, 2010, 12:50:49 PM
1. Earth is flat.
2. Distant objects seem to sink below the horizon as they recede from us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It must be that light does not follow straight lines (since we would never observe this effect on a flat surface with rectilinear propagation of light), i.e. it bends. Any theory that explains this phenomenon is fundamentally correct since it relies on observational evidence.

However, deriving Earth is round would be in direct violation to premise 1. Therefore, your argument has to be wrong. I pointed out the reason why this is so. You erroneously assumed a fundamentally correct theory to be invalid as a premise in your deductions.
Well - no - the simplest explanation is that sun merely travels underneath the earth and pops up in the East the next morning.

This requires no bendy light theories and falls in with the fact the world seems flat to you when you look out your window.
If this were true, it would mean that it is day and night at ALL points on the Earth at the same time. However, this is contrary to observational evidence.

Irrelevant, it is what I see out my window.
a) Look out the window.
b) Look at a sunset.

I don't have to have experiments to prove that light bends. I deduced it from the two premises.
By that same train of thought anyone can deduce something different given the same two premises and have an equally valid proof.
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.
The sun sinks below the horizon in the west and rises in the east.  The only logical explanation is that it traveled under us.

Berny
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 12:52:51 PM
ITT: REers being dumb unintentionally.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 01:00:32 PM
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.

 That the premise 1 isn't true.

So, assuming premise 1 and premise 2, you deduce premise 1 is correct. WOW! You are a genius.
I said it isn't true not that it is true. Can't you read? And of course. If you assume the premise 1 and premise 2 and got the result which contradicts the premise 1 then only thing to deduce is that the premise 1 isn't true.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 01:17:00 PM
I don't understand what else could be deduced from those two premises.

 That the premise 1 isn't true.

So, assuming premise 1 and premise 2, you deduce premise 1 is correct. WOW! You are a genius.
I said it isn't true not that it is true. Can't you read? And of course. If you assume the premise 1 and premise 2 and got the result which contradicts the premise 1 then only thing to deduce is that the premise 1 isn't true.

Ok, so let's get this straight. Are you claiming:

Premise 1;
Premise 2;
---------------
NOT(Premise 1)

is a valid syllogism or, are you saying something else?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 01:28:46 PM
 I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 01:29:38 PM
I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.

Ok, how do you think premise 2 contradict premise 1 in our particular case?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 13, 2010, 01:57:07 PM
I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.

Ok, how do you think premise 2 contradict premise 1 in our particular case?
Because you can assume from that the round earth.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 06:11:36 PM
I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.

Ok, how do you think premise 2 contradict premise 1 in our particular case?
Because you can assume from that the round earth.
Wow, that's a large leap of faith.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 13, 2010, 06:18:13 PM
I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.

Ok, how do you think premise 2 contradict premise 1 in our particular case?
Because you can assume from that the round earth.
Wow, that's a large leap of faith.

As is accepting that the earth is flat when that has yet to be proven.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 07:31:13 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 07:41:38 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Quite the contrary, with Tom's wonderful support in the Wiki and Rowbotham's support about the sextant, it is a wonderful proof. And get this, any two FEers can at some time during the year repeat the experiment and convince themselves. No more excuses. Hurrah! Final and absolute victory for RE!
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 07:43:41 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Quite the contrary, with Tom's wonderful support in the Wiki and Rowbotham's support about the sextant, it is a wonderful proof. And get this, any two FEers can at some time during the year repeat the experiment and convince themselves. No more excuses. Hurrah! Final and absolute victory for RE!

pats 'ClockTower' on the shoulder... There there, don't get overexcited. Here, drink these pills.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 07:53:04 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Quite the contrary, with Tom's wonderful support in the Wiki and Rowbotham's support about the sextant, it is a wonderful proof. And get this, any two FEers can at some time during the year repeat the experiment and convince themselves. No more excuses. Hurrah! Final and absolute victory for RE!

pats 'ClockTower' on the shoulder... There there, don't get overexcited. Here, drink these pills.
You know you really never had a chance there. I really thought there was a time that you could have made a case for EAT. I guess the math must have been too much for you, like Roundy and his grand unified theory for FET.

EAT is just not even making a decent appearance in these topics anymore. Really, you want to start from the "assumption" that the Earth is flat to prove EAT?

Oh, and you don't drink pills.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Quite the contrary, with Tom's wonderful support in the Wiki and Rowbotham's support about the sextant, it is a wonderful proof. And get this, any two FEers can at some time during the year repeat the experiment and convince themselves. No more excuses. Hurrah! Final and absolute victory for RE!

pats 'ClockTower' on the shoulder... There there, don't get overexcited. Here, drink these pills.
You know you really never had a chance there. I really thought there was a time that you could have made a case for EAT. I guess the math must have been too much for you, like Roundy and his grand unified theory for FET.

EAT is just not even making a decent appearance in these topics anymore. Really, you want to start from the "assumption" that the Earth is flat to prove EAT?

Oh, and you don't drink pills.

Keep telling that to yourself.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:06:40 PM
Considering the title of this thread, that wasn't much of a proof, was it?
Quite the contrary, with Tom's wonderful support in the Wiki and Rowbotham's support about the sextant, it is a wonderful proof. And get this, any two FEers can at some time during the year repeat the experiment and convince themselves. No more excuses. Hurrah! Final and absolute victory for RE!

pats 'ClockTower' on the shoulder... There there, don't get overexcited. Here, drink these pills.
You know you really never had a chance there. I really thought there was a time that you could have made a case for EAT. I guess the math must have been too much for you, like Roundy and his grand unified theory for FET.

EAT is just not even making a decent appearance in these topics anymore. Really, you want to start from the "assumption" that the Earth is flat to prove EAT?

Oh, and you don't drink pills.

Keep telling that to yourself.
So do you have any decent statement of EAT or a way to test it yet? How much longer do you need, if not?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:07:10 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
Yes.
Please provide a link to this explanation of yours.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:11:46 PM
Yes.
Please provide a link to this explanation of yours.
Why would I do that?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:14:04 PM
Yes.
Please provide a link to this explanation of yours.
Why would I do that?
To substantiate your claim, of course. Why would you ask? Come on. We're in the upper fora, so let's debate, not play games.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:21:04 PM
Yes.
Please provide a link to this explanation of yours.
Why would I do that?
To substantiate your claim, of course. Why would you ask? Come on. We're in the upper fora, so let's debate, not play games.
I am debating. What claims do I have to substantiate? Look at the title of the thread. If your idea of proof is challenging people to disprove you, then you are not doing a good job. It is called Burden of proof. By the way, since the person who verifies EAT will probably get the next Nobel Prize in Physics, I have no intention of revealing such groundbreaking material to someone else.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:29:24 PM
Yes.
Please provide a link to this explanation of yours.
Why would I do that?
To substantiate your claim, of course. Why would you ask? Come on. We're in the upper fora, so let's debate, not play games.
I am debating. What claims do I have to substantiate? Look at the title of the thread. If your idea of proof is challenging people to disprove you, then you are not doing a good job. It is called Burden of proof. By the way, since the person who verifies EAT will probably get the next Nobel Prize in Physics, I have no intention of revealing such groundbreaking material to someone else.
So you can't show that EAT even has an explanation? How typical of an FEer.

I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof. I admit that I can't prove EAT false since no FEer will even state what it is in a scientific way or provide and verifiable objective evidence to substantiate it.

Of course, you quite right. Any one who verifies any of the FE magic is in line for the Nobel Prize in Physics. Given that no FEer has ever been nominated, and the poor quality of FE science, none will ever be nominated.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:38:02 PM
So you won't show that EAT even has an explanation?
Fix'd.

How typical of an FEer.
Keep up the offenses.

I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof.
And I refuted your proof as garbage in my first post.

I admit that I can't prove EAT false
Thank you for substantiating my point.

Of course, you quite right. Any one who verifies any of the FE magic is in line for the Nobel Prize in Physics. Given that no FEer has ever been nominated, and the poor quality of FE science, none will ever be nominated.
good thing no one asked for your opinion on Nobel Prize in Physics nominees.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:42:58 PM
I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof.
And I refuted your proof as garbage in my first post.
Not even close. You just admitted that you "won't" even describe EAT, yet your refutation requires its verification. How typical of an FEer.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof.
And I refuted your proof as garbage in my first post.
Not even close. You just admitted that you "won't" even describe EAT, yet your refutation requires its verification. How typical of an FEer.
Why would I do the dirty work for you? You need to supply proof for your own conclusions. And you are reported.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: TrollCrusher on November 13, 2010, 08:48:49 PM
I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof.
And I refuted your proof as garbage in my first post.
Not even close. You just admitted that you "won't" even describe EAT, yet your refutation requires its verification. How typical of an FEer.
Why would I do the dirty work for you? You need to supply proof for your own conclusions. And you are reported.

If you flat earther's would work from the evidence instead of from a fantasized conclusion, maybe this would turn more scientific in a way..after all, science is aboutdrawing conclusions from available facts.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 13, 2010, 08:49:30 PM
I've proposed a proof. I've presented how the evidence needed can be obtained. I've explained that the FEW and EnaG already have provided the needed data points. I've met my burden of proof.
And I refuted your proof as garbage in my first post.
Not even close. You just admitted that you "won't" even describe EAT, yet your refutation requires its verification. How typical of an FEer.
Why would I do the dirty work for you? You need to supply proof for your own conclusions. And you are reported.
What dirty work of mine have I asked you to do? I've supplied the evidence for my own conclusions. If you want to challenge me with FE magic, then go ahead and substantiate it. Otherwise, we'll just dismiss you along with your unfounded claims.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 13, 2010, 08:51:47 PM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is not considered proof.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 01:54:48 AM
I guess I said it incorrectly. I meant that if you take 1 and then you go and take 2 then you just realize that the 2 contradicts the 1 and therefore the 1 can't be true. Shortly, you can't put two arbitrary premises together and assume something from both of them when they just won't work together.

Ok, how do you think premise 2 contradict premise 1 in our particular case?
Because you can assume from that the round earth.
Wow, that's a large leap of faith.
It's not larger than assuming that the light bends. If you do your research then you find out that it is one reason why people started to think that the Earth can be round. So, it's not so large leap. Smaller than the bendy light one. So, if this second assumption is your only and only argument for bendy light then there is no bendy light.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Kira-SY on November 14, 2010, 02:39:19 AM
Previously determined fact: EAT is false.

This is not considered proof.

Neither does this:

1. Earth is flat.

The rest of everything you've been saying through the thread fails alone.
Please, admit you have lost the debate, that you have no single evidence for anything, and stop reporting and playing misterious child "I have but I won't tell, nanananana". Some of us try to have a serious debating forum.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: vhu9644 on November 14, 2010, 04:06:13 AM
what i learned in science is that theories are never proven, just supported, so many of the theories may be overturned or changed

anyways, light does bend, as it is attracted to gravity (i think it has like a mass of 1/c right?  becuase e=mc^2)  and also, becuase light is a wave, it has a tendency to spread out after it passes objects, like slits right (i think ive seen a similar experiment)
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: wecl0me12 on November 14, 2010, 05:43:01 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 14, 2010, 06:22:01 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.

Please post your latitude (including N or S) and the altitude of the Sun. I recommend using a stake on flat ground. Measure the height (h) of the stick and its shadow (s). The altitude would arctan(h/s). Note: since the Sun is directly above a latitude other than the Equator, the angle will not be the complement of your latitude. If your location is too overcast on Monday, please try again on Tuesday or Wednesday, but be sure to report the change. If your time zone permits, you're also welcome to measure on Sunday.

I will look for outliers and see if they come from questionable sources known to have lied about experimental data previously.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 14, 2010, 09:31:50 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 14, 2010, 09:39:29 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.


So no matter what the results prove BLT is always correct?

Berny
BLT makes me hungry
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 14, 2010, 09:40:20 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

How do you propose any experiment do so when there is no description of BLT? Are you just trolling?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 14, 2010, 09:44:20 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

How do you propose any experiment do so when there is no description of BLT? Are you just trolling?

What he is saying any results that prove the Earth's Rotundity with anything to do with the Sun will be explained by BLT.  I think they know what direction this is going so they are going to blanket it down like Space Travel and Conspiracy Theory.

So any pictures taken from space are Faked
And any results from Sun shots and tracking are caused by BLT

Means we have to find an alternative angle

Berny
Thinks the FE'rs are battening down the hatches.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 14, 2010, 09:56:12 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

How do you propose any experiment do so when there is no description of BLT? Are you just trolling?

What he is saying any results that prove the Earth's Rotundity with anything to do with the Sun will be explained by BLT.  I think they know what direction this is going so they are going to blanket it down like Space Travel and Conspiracy Theory.

So any pictures taken from space are Faked
And any results from Sun shots and tracking are caused by BLT

Means we have to find an alternative angle

Berny
Thinks the FE'rs are battening down the hatches.

I understand. But I'm not willing to allow a "we're going to think of a response to this challenge someday" defense. When they come up with a description of BLT then we will ask for evidence for it. Until then, I suggest we just accept victory and move on.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: berny_74 on November 14, 2010, 10:00:12 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

How do you propose any experiment do so when there is no description of BLT? Are you just trolling?

What he is saying any results that prove the Earth's Rotundity with anything to do with the Sun will be explained by BLT.  I think they know what direction this is going so they are going to blanket it down like Space Travel and Conspiracy Theory.

So any pictures taken from space are Faked
And any results from Sun shots and tracking are caused by BLT

Means we have to find an alternative angle

Berny
Thinks the FE'rs are battening down the hatches.

I understand. But I'm not willing to allow a "we're going to think of a response to this challenge someday" defense. When they come up with a description of BLT then we will ask for evidence for it. Until then, I suggest we just accept victory and move on.

Does that work for you?
BTW I work so I cannot be included in the study.

Berny
Victory for the Round Earth
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2010, 10:39:30 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

It's the optical equivalent of the EP.  There is no test possible to distinguish bendy light from the earth's curvature.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 11:26:40 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.


This is the point. The experiment proposed by ClockTower does not distinguish between RET and BLT.

It's the optical equivalent of the EP.  There is no test possible to distinguish bendy light from the earth's curvature.
How about experiments with laser like from http://www.i-fiberoptics.com/pdf/45-700-manual.pdf
Experiment 19. Measuring the Curvature of the Earth
Or something similar.

 In addition you can put build some solid beam alongside the laser beam. If the light bends then the solid beam and laser beam should not be side by side till the endpoint.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 14, 2010, 11:46:23 AM
It's been cloudy here but if it isn't tomorrow I'll help out.

EDIT: Not sure why everyone's still arguing over bendy light, most FE'ers won't profess belief in it anyway.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 14, 2010, 01:22:30 PM
It's been cloudy here but if it isn't tomorrow I'll help out.

EDIT: Not sure why everyone's still arguing over bendy light, most FE'ers won't profess belief in it anyway.

And most people won't profess the Earth is flat. However, that has no effect on its validity.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 01:44:32 PM
It's been cloudy here but if it isn't tomorrow I'll help out.

EDIT: Not sure why everyone's still arguing over bendy light, most FE'ers won't profess belief in it anyway.

And most people won't profess the Earth is flat. However, that has no effect on its validity.
But the claim about the Earth being flat is not valid. None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 14, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
But the claim about the Earth being flat is not valid. None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.
The same objection can be raised against the RE hypothesis.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 01:49:21 PM
But the claim about the Earth being flat is not valid. None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.
The same objection can be raised against the RE hypothesis.
No, you can't. Because here on the round Earth people have been on space and seen the Earth in its entirety.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 14, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
But the claim about the Earth being flat is not valid. None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.
The same objection can be raised against the RE hypothesis.
No, you can't. Because here on the round Earth people have been on space and seen the Earth in its entirety.
No, they were not. And, even if you had gone to space, you would have not been able to see a round earth in its entirety.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 02:07:30 PM
No, you can't. Because here on the round Earth people have been on space and seen the Earth in its entirety.
No, they were not. And, even if you had gone to space, you would have not been able to see a round earth in its entirety.
You can deny that as much as you want but that won't make people who went to space to disappear. And yes, you can. You can go around the Earth and see it in its entirety.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2010, 02:09:08 PM
But the claim about the Earth being flat is not valid. None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.
The same objection can be raised against the RE hypothesis.
No, you can't. Because here on the round Earth people have been on space and seen the Earth in its entirety.
No, they were not. And, even if you had gone to space, you would have not been able to see a round earth in its entirety.
Actually, you could.  The Apollo astronauts had about a 2 day trip each way to and from the moon.  During that time they would have been able to observe the entire earth as it rotates on its axis.  Same goes with satellites in polar orbits.  You just wouldn't be able to see the round earth in its entirety all at once (which is not what zork had claimed).
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: parsec on November 14, 2010, 02:09:59 PM
You can deny that as much as you want but that won't make people who went to space to disappear.
You mean, like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy)

You can go around the Earth and see it in its entirety.
Do you have any proof for this outlandish claim?


Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: markjo on November 14, 2010, 02:27:22 PM
You can deny that as much as you want but that won't make people who went to space to disappear.
You mean, like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy)
What about him?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 02:43:22 PM
You can deny that as much as you want but that won't make people who went to space to disappear.
You mean, like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin#Death_and_legacy)

 Did he disappear because you deny the space travel? No. I mean the people who are now in the space and who are alive.

You can go around the Earth and see it in its entirety.
Do you have any proof for this outlandish claim?
  Of course. But as you deny the technological advancement then there is no use to show you any videos or photographs. And as private entrepreneurs take things on their own hands there are soon quite many space going persons. But as I or anyone can provide some links to the photos or videos taken from space and to show the entire earth globe then how about you? Can you provide some material which shows the entire flat earth? Even some faked and realistic one?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 14, 2010, 02:44:39 PM
None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.

Doesn't this entail that all of the FEers have seen the Earth in its entirety?
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: zork on November 14, 2010, 02:49:02 PM
None of the FEers have not seen the Earth in its entirety.

Doesn't this entail that all of the FEers have seen the Earth in its entirety?
My mistakes in english language do not entail that. I guess the right version is then - None of the FEers have seen the Earth in its entirety.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: Erland on November 15, 2010, 04:56:30 AM
OK, now we are going to carry out clocktower's experiment. ON November 15, 2010 local astronomical noon, everyone measure the altitude of the sun.

If the values are exactly as  predicted by RET, then RET is correct.
If the values are all weird, then bendy light theory is correct.

Please post your latitude (including N or S) and the altitude of the Sun. I recommend using a stake on flat ground. Measure the height (h) of the stick and its shadow (s). The altitude would arctan(h/s). Note: since the Sun is directly above a latitude other than the Equator, the angle will not be the complement of your latitude. If your location is too overcast on Monday, please try again on Tuesday or Wednesday, but be sure to report the change. If your time zone permits, you're also welcome to measure on Sunday.

I will look for outliers and see if they come from questionable sources known to have lied about experimental data previously.

Thanks!
Cloudy in Luleå, Sweden (65 deg 35 min north), unfortunately.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 15, 2010, 10:01:23 AM
40.oN
30.o
Monday, 11/15/2010
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 15, 2010, 10:30:36 AM
I used my GPS to get an exact figure for latitude, I am at 29 degrees 51.242 minutes North.

I got an approximate figure for the sun's altitude of 41.42 degrees.

The sun only came out for about a minute 15 minutes after astronomical noon, so that's the best I could do.

I'll try it again tomorrow if I can and try to be more precise.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: General Disarray on November 16, 2010, 10:20:42 AM
I repeated my observation today (it was a lot sunnier). For Tuesday 11/16, at latitude 29 degrees 51.242 minutes North at local astronomical noon, I measured the sun's altitude to be 39.93 degrees.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 16, 2010, 10:40:25 AM
I repeated my observation today (it was a lot sunnier). For Tuesday 11/16, at latitude 29 degrees 51.242 minutes North at local astronomical noon, I measured the sun's altitude to be 39.93 degrees.
Thanks. So far all three observations point to a RE to two sigfigs.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: James on November 16, 2010, 01:05:28 PM
I'm in the West Midlands. The Sun is too far away to be seen right now.
Title: Re: Proof: The Earth is Round
Post by: ClockTower on November 16, 2010, 01:14:50 PM
I'm in the West Midlands. The Sun is too far away to be seen right now.
Remember that you have take the measurement at local astronomical noon.