The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Jimmy911 on February 15, 2008, 01:52:31 PM

Title: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 15, 2008, 01:52:31 PM
All evidence points to that planets and the moon are spherical (Lunar Libration and the fact that with powerful enough telescopes you can details in planets disappear over time). Then why is the Earth special?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 15, 2008, 04:16:24 PM
The planets and other celestial bodies aren't spherical. We are simply seeing only their front face.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 15, 2008, 04:40:18 PM
The planets and other celestial bodies aren't spherical. We are simply seeing only their front face.
They are spherical... Lunar Libration proves the moon is spherical (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19761.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19761.0)) and with a good telescope you can prove that planets are spherical. For instance Jupiter has the Great Red Spot. If it happens to visible at one time, it will likely not be visible in awhile. Logically the only explanation is that it is no longer visible due to the rotation of the spherical planet. Same with Mars. You can see different features move and disappear with a telescope over time as well.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 15, 2008, 04:53:39 PM
The planets and other celestial bodies aren't spherical. We are simply seeing only their front face.
They are spherical... Lunar Libration proves the moon is spherical (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19761.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19761.0)) and with a good telescope you can prove that planets are spherical. For instance Jupiter has the Great Red Spot. If it happens to visible at one time, it will likely not be visible in awhile. Logically the only explanation is that it is no longer visible due to the rotation of the spherical planet. Same with Mars. You can see different features move and disappear with a telescope over time as well.


The photographs and phenomena you're referring to are hoaxes or do not exist. The spherical appearance of planetoids and other heavenly bodies, viewed through a telescope, are illusions caused by atmospheric, gravitational, and electromagnetic lensing of the body's light. The red spot on Jupiter is not permanent. It comes and goes cyclically, just like hurricanes and monsoons on earth, only much more regular due to peculiarities of Jupiter's atmosphere.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 15, 2008, 05:15:51 PM
The photographs and phenomena you're referring to are hoaxes or do not exist. The spherical appearance of planetoids and other heavenly bodies, viewed through a telescope, are illusions caused by atmospheric, gravitational, and electromagnetic lensing of the body's light. The red spot on Jupiter is not permanent. It comes and goes cyclically, just like hurricanes and monsoons on earth, only much more regular due to peculiarities of Jupiter's atmosphere.
Nope. Anyone can see these. And the red spot on Jupiter just happens to appear and reappear the same shape and size in the same path with timed appearances? I think not. Lunar Libration can be observed by anyone with good observation techniques. Plus the image from the libration thread is non-governmental. The planetary details on Mars can in no significant way be affected by what you said. The only logical explanation is that they cannot be seen at times due to its rotation on a spherical axis. Many FE'ers believe that other celestial bodies are spherical because of this conclusive evidence. Which brings me back to my original problem. Why is the Earth special?   
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 16, 2008, 01:20:24 PM
Bump.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Chris Spaghetti on February 16, 2008, 01:44:42 PM
All evidence points to that planets and the moon are spherical (Lunar Libration and the fact that with powerful enough telescopes you can details in planets disappear over time). Then why is the Earth special?

Why not?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 16, 2008, 03:28:39 PM
Very scientific Chris ;)
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 16, 2008, 03:33:04 PM
valid, though. If there's no reason why it should be impossible for the earth to be flat, then observation of other bodies which are not flat should not be taken as proof that the earth is not flat.

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 16, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
All evidence points to that planets and the moon are spherical (Lunar Libration and the fact that with powerful enough telescopes you can details in planets disappear over time). Then why is the Earth special?

The earth is potentially an infinite plane which cuts the universe in half. The earth is not a celestial body. The earth is our Terra Firma; the only known material world and the only environment known to support life.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 16, 2008, 03:37:42 PM
It is a valid point.  Is there any reason you feel you can logically state that the earth should be like other bodies?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 16, 2008, 03:52:37 PM
By tom's argument, for the same reason I can state that the earth is not similar to the clouds in it's atmosphere.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 16, 2008, 04:54:04 PM
It is a valid point.  Is there any reason you feel you can logically state that the earth should be like other bodies?
Because of how they formed.  Also becasue of gravitaiton by mass. 
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 16, 2008, 04:58:15 PM
It is a valid point.  Is there any reason you feel you can logically state that the earth should be like other bodies?
Because of how they formed.  Also becasue of gravitaiton by mass. 

How can gravitation by mass pull everything to the center if the earth is an infinite plane and there is no center?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 16, 2008, 06:26:07 PM
or, if the earth is not an infinite plane, then why hasn't all-attracting gravity condensed the universe into a single point again?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 16, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
It is a valid point.  Is there any reason you feel you can logically state that the earth should be like other bodies?
Because of how they formed.  Also becasue of gravitaiton by mass. 

How can gravitation by mass pull everything to the center if the earth is an infinite plane and there is no center?
There is nothing that says the earth is an infinite plane. 


Quote from: Ltar
or, if the earth is not an infinite plane, then why hasn't all-attracting gravity condensed the universe into a single point again?
Because gravity doesn't exist.  While gravitation does add together, see gravitational lensing around galaxies,  gravitation is driven by mass.  Mass is not everywhere. 

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Ltar on February 17, 2008, 03:10:06 AM
It is a valid point.  Is there any reason you feel you can logically state that the earth should be like other bodies?
Because of how they formed.  Also becasue of gravitaiton by mass. 

How can gravitation by mass pull everything to the center if the earth is an infinite plane and there is no center?
There is nothing that says the earth is an infinite plane. 
tom bishop says the earth is an infinite plane.


Quote
Quote from: Ltar
or, if the earth is not an infinite plane, then why hasn't all-attracting gravity condensed the universe into a single point again?
Because gravity doesn't exist.  While gravitation does add together, see gravitational lensing around galaxies,  gravitation is driven by mass.  Mass is not everywhere.
but the earth has mass, in fact, everything except protons have mass, because photons are a theoretical particle  invented to explain the transmission of light . Gravity exists unless you care to be a semantic Nazi and insist that gravity and gravitation are perceptibly different. Gravitational lensing around galaxies is significant. Gravitational lensing has been shown to obscure the existence of black holes. There is no reason to assume that gravitational lensing has not obscured the existence of a flat earth.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 17, 2008, 09:52:17 AM

tom bishop says the earth is an infinite plane.
Because he had to change his theory when people said air would leak off an none infinite plane flat earth. 

Quote from: Ltar
but the earth has mass, in fact, everything except protons have mass, because photons are a theoretical particle  invented to explain the transmission of light . Gravity exists unless you care to be a semantic Nazi and insist that gravity and gravitation are perceptibly different. Gravitational lensing around galaxies is significant. Gravitational lensing has been shown to obscure the existence of black holes. There is no reason to assume that gravitational lensing has not obscured the existence of a flat earth.
I think you meant photons here too. 
Photons were not invented to explain the transmission of light as photons are light.  There are many ways to prove photons.  Admitting that gravitation by mass is real means you admit the earth is round.   
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: veclock on February 17, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
Uh, if the earth is an infinite plane, then the moon and the sun would fall, like everything else.
Can you explain that, Tom? Whatever it is that causes the "universal acceleration", it can't affect the sun and the moon if the earth is totally blocking it.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 17, 2008, 10:42:58 AM
Doesn't this "Infinite" Earth theory go against the first law of Thermodynamics? Energy cannot be created or destroyed and since Mass is energy an infinite Earth would be impossible...
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 17, 2008, 10:48:39 AM
Doesn't this "Infinite" Earth theory go against the first law of Thermodynamics? Energy cannot be created or destroyed and since Mass is energy an infinite Earth would be impossible...

Why would an infinite earth be creating or destroying energy?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 17, 2008, 10:57:03 AM
Uh, if the earth is an infinite plane, then the moon and the sun would fall, like everything else.
Can you explain that, Tom? Whatever it is that causes the "universal acceleration", it can't affect the sun and the moon if the earth is totally blocking it.
The earth is infinite.  It has a finite gravitational pull.  There is no "UA".  The space between the earth and the heavens is expanding.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 17, 2008, 10:57:14 AM
Doesn't this "Infinite" Earth theory go against the first law of Thermodynamics? Energy cannot be created or destroyed and since Mass is energy an infinite Earth would be impossible...

Why would an infinite earth be creating or destroying energy?
An infinite earth would need infinite energy.  There is not infinite energy. 
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: veclock on February 17, 2008, 11:27:48 AM
Did you just see how Tom Bishop disproved the conspiracy?

Tom says: the earth is infinite.
- That means it exists infinite energi.
The FAQ says: the reason for the conspiracy is probably money.

With infinite energy, everyone could have infinite money. So the conspiracy can't exist.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 17, 2008, 01:39:57 PM
Or the conspiracy could just hoard the resources past the icewall for their own uses.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: veclock on February 17, 2008, 01:51:07 PM
That's so far-fetched that NO ONE can believe in it.
What would be beyond the ice wall? How can a round ice wall have formed, in the middle of a infinite plane?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 17, 2008, 02:31:56 PM
That's so far-fetched that NO ONE can believe in it.
What would be beyond the ice wall? How can a round ice wall have formed, in the middle of a infinite plane?

The sun melted the ice, unveiling the lands which we know as our Local Area.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 17, 2008, 02:56:56 PM
This infinite Earth theory has already been shot down. It goes against one of the most fundamental laws of physics.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 17, 2008, 05:09:59 PM
This infinite Earth theory has already been shot down. It goes against one of the most fundamental laws of physics.

What law would that be? Can you link us to the law which states that infinite matter/energy cannot exist?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jack on February 17, 2008, 05:11:07 PM
Quote
What law would that be?

I was gonna say that.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 17, 2008, 05:42:07 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Infinite Earth = Infinite Mass = Infinite Energy = Infinite Impossible
In an isolated system (the Universe) the energy must remain constant.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 17, 2008, 06:44:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Infinite Earth = Infinite Mass = Infinite Energy = Infinite Impossible
In an isolated system (the Universe) the energy must remain constant.

I don't see anything about the first law of thermo which does not allow infinite matter or energy to exist.

An infinite earth wouldn't exist in an isolated system, but rather an infinite one.

Remember, there are some models of the RE which invoke an infinite universe teeming with infinite matter and energy.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: veclock on February 17, 2008, 11:47:09 PM
The sun melted the ice, unveiling the lands which we know as our Local Area.
I see. But then you think it's just ice beyond the icewall? Could you answer my question at the previous page?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 18, 2008, 09:52:51 AM
What is beyond the ice wall is not known to man.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 18, 2008, 11:24:58 AM
What is beyond the ice wall is not known to man.

Why doesn't anyone go over it? Send some kind of probe? The people involved in the conspiracy must have been able to do it by now.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 18, 2008, 11:26:53 AM
I'm sure they are publishing their results to us.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: divito the truthist on February 18, 2008, 11:27:44 AM
Why doesn't anyone go over it? Send some kind of probe? The people involved in the conspiracy must have been able to do it by now.

Yes, the conspiracy will televise the results to us. ::)
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 18, 2008, 11:31:48 AM
Why doesn't anyone go over it? Send some kind of probe? The people involved in the conspiracy must have been able to do it by now.

Yes, the conspiracy will televise the results to us. ::)

I never said that, the claim was that beyond the ice wall is not known to mankind. Unless we are going to get into some alien conspiracies. I'll get my Fox Mulder FBI hat out for that.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 18, 2008, 11:35:07 AM
Why doesn't anyone go over it? Send some kind of probe? The people involved in the conspiracy must have been able to do it by now.

Yes, the conspiracy will televise the results to us. ::)

I never said that, the claim was that beyond the ice wall is not known to mankind. Unless we are going to get into some alien conspiracies. I'll get my Fox Mulder FBI hat out for that.
::)
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 18, 2008, 12:19:56 PM
Why doesn't anyone go over it? Send some kind of probe? The people involved in the conspiracy must have been able to do it by now.

Yes, the conspiracy will televise the results to us. ::)

I never said that, the claim was that beyond the ice wall is not known to mankind. Unless we are going to get into some alien conspiracies. I'll get my Fox Mulder FBI hat out for that.

Bringing the FE arguments to their absurdities is my new tactic, illustration of irrationality.
::)

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 18, 2008, 12:33:46 PM
Obviously I meant that the general populace and the vast majority of man has no idea what is over the wall. I obviously have no clue what hte conspiracy is up to.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 18, 2008, 12:39:40 PM
Obviously I meant that the general populace and the vast majority of man has no idea what is over the wall. I obviously have no clue what hte conspiracy is up to.
No clue what they are up to, no clue how they do what they do, no clue on why they do what they do..does anyone have a clue?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 18, 2008, 01:31:55 PM
Obviously I meant that the general populace and the vast majority of man has no idea what is over the wall. I obviously have no clue what hte conspiracy is up to.
No clue what they are up to, no clue how they do what they do, no clue on why they do what they do..does anyone have a clue?

How should we know hat the Conspiracy is up to when we're not part of the Conspiracy?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 18, 2008, 01:35:13 PM
Obviously I meant that the general populace and the vast majority of man has no idea what is over the wall. I obviously have no clue what hte conspiracy is up to.
No clue what they are up to, no clue how they do what they do, no clue on why they do what they do..does anyone have a clue?

How should we know hat the Conspiracy is up to when we're not part of the Conspiracy?

You claim they are up to hiding arguably the most important truth about the earth we have ever known. And you know this without a doubt....hmm
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Jimmy911 on February 19, 2008, 10:33:29 AM
Someone once brought up a good point about your infinite Earth/ infinite atmolayer theory. I don't remember where I saw it or who said it, and I don't recall you ever responding to it. If there is infinite atmolayer, how is it then possible for pollution to build up in the air? All other things aside, you still have absolutely no evidence for this theory. I'm more likely to believe the other FE theories before this one...
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Conspiracy Mastermind on February 19, 2008, 12:36:35 PM
Obviously I meant that the general populace and the vast majority of man has no idea what is over the wall. I obviously have no clue what hte conspiracy is up to.
No clue what they are up to, no clue how they do what they do, no clue on why they do what they do..does anyone have a clue?

How should we know hat the Conspiracy is up to when we're not part of the Conspiracy?
I do. We're currently in the planning stages of operation "lets all go after Tom bishop"
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 19, 2008, 01:01:56 PM
Agent!?!?!? You told me you'd be done with the planning stage of that operation 1 week ago. I demand that you finish it up, and submit it to my office for approval for the operation. And I refuse to give you any more black ops troops. You took 2000 men for a simple assassination last time...
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 19, 2008, 05:42:40 PM
Someone once brought up a good point about your infinite Earth/ infinite atmolayer theory. I don't remember where I saw it or who said it, and I don't recall you ever responding to it. If there is infinite atmolayer, how is it then possible for pollution to build up in the air? All other things aside, you still have absolutely no evidence for this theory. I'm more likely to believe the other FE theories before this one...
Pollution isn't distributed evenly in a round earth either.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 19, 2008, 05:45:25 PM
Only because of the way the wind blows IIRC the concentration is higher in some areas than others, but diffusion demands that it spread out, which would mean that it ought to disperse quite quickly...so what gives? Unless you're telling me somehow that there's an extremely powerful wind pushing towards us from Antarctica...
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 19, 2008, 05:51:10 PM
The only place in the southern 'hemisphere' with any notable level of polution is around zimbawbe.  I think its fair to say there could be local wind that keeps it there.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 19, 2008, 05:52:23 PM
of course if one wishes to look at it another way, the southern hemisphere could have already had its pollution diffused out.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 19, 2008, 06:09:39 PM
Hmm...that's plausible. So you mean to say, it is diffracting, but the level of pollution we give, combined with local winds, etc, causes some to stick around.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 19, 2008, 07:05:14 PM
Yes.  And the edges (SH) obviously diffuse faster.  With the exception of that area, which could either be due to it pumping so much out or local winds or who knows what.  Really whatever reason its localized there in the RE is likely the same as the FE.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 24, 2008, 04:33:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Infinite Earth = Infinite Mass = Infinite Energy = Infinite Impossible
In an isolated system (the Universe) the energy must remain constant.

I don't see anything about the first law of thermo which does not allow infinite matter or energy to exist.

An infinite earth wouldn't exist in an isolated system, but rather an infinite one.


Remember, there are some models of the RE which invoke an infinite universe teeming with infinite matter and energy.


Okay but you are saying that universe has no begining or end and it is static because if there is a beginning of the universe such as the big bang there is an amount of energy that is unchanging. Sorry it kinda hard to explain but basically the universe has the same amount of energy in it right now as t did when it started
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 24, 2008, 04:35:37 PM
Also for the earth to be infinite makes no sense we would never reach the end
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 24, 2008, 06:13:09 PM
Also for the earth to be infinite makes no sense we would never reach the end
That would be the definition, more or less, of infinite.  How does that make "no sense?"
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 24, 2008, 07:37:14 PM
how does that coincide with yor ice wall b/c there would be no edge to your earth
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 24, 2008, 08:00:19 PM
how does that coincide with yor ice wall b/c there would be no edge to your earth
The icewall is along the perimeter of the habitated area of the earth.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 24, 2008, 08:14:43 PM
how does that coincide with yor ice wall b/c there would be no edge to your earth
The icewall is along the perimeter of the habitated area of the earth.
Okay but do u believe that the universe is static?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 07:09:23 AM
At least the area in which the earth resides, yes.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 07:17:15 AM
At least the area in which the earth resides, yes.
Does that mean you don't believe in comets/asteroids/other celestial bodies?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 07:18:40 AM
No, it doesn't mean that.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 07:20:54 AM
No, it doesn't mean that.
Can FET explain them?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 07:23:57 AM
They are either from earth ( See the works of Charles Fort) or they have the same explanation as in RE.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 07:46:27 AM
They are either from earth ( See the works of Charles Fort) or they have the same explanation as in RE.
The RE model shows them as being extra solar (the ones with massive orbits) being affected by gravity of planets (which would mean gravity exists and the planets follow the RE model).

Also not sure if Charlie has anything to do with it. He couldn't explain how people can observe asteroids with great detail. Its a little more than frogs raining down. I can see a small relation but he couldn't explain that with his works.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 07:57:57 AM
They are either from earth ( See the works of Charles Fort) or they have the same explanation as in RE.
The RE model shows them as being extra solar (the ones with massive orbits) being affected by gravity of planets (which would mean gravity exists and the planets follow the RE model).

Also not sure if Charlie has anything to do with it. He couldn't explain how people can observe asteroids with great detail. Its a little more than frogs raining down. I can see a small relation but he couldn't explain that with his works.
Gravitation does exist.

I had thought that Fort details in several places meteors, meteorites, falling stars, etc to be from terrestial origins.  I don't have the citations offhand, however. I've got a copy of his works at home, I'll try to remember to give em a look later.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 08:04:51 AM
They are either from earth ( See the works of Charles Fort) or they have the same explanation as in RE.
The RE model shows them as being extra solar (the ones with massive orbits) being affected by gravity of planets (which would mean gravity exists and the planets follow the RE model).

Also not sure if Charlie has anything to do with it. He couldn't explain how people can observe asteroids with great detail. Its a little more than frogs raining down. I can see a small relation but he couldn't explain that with his works.
Gravitation does exist.

I had thought that Fort details in several places meteors, meteorites, falling stars, etc to be from terrestial origins.  I don't have the citations offhand, however. I've got a copy of his works at home, I'll try to remember to give em a look later.


I'd be curious to see what Charlie has to say. Let me know and I can look up his works (I think they're in the public domain by now).

So gravitation towards planets and satelites exists in FET? I thought gravity was the result of us going up?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 08:06:03 AM
In the infinite earth model, which I thought was what we were discussing.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 08:26:11 AM
In the infinite earth model, which I thought was what we were discussing.
I was inquiring about the FET.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 25, 2008, 09:24:55 AM
Right the flat earth infinite model.  You quoted
Quote
At least the area in which the earth resides, yes.

In which me and Einstein were discussing the infinite flat earth model.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Kill-9 on February 25, 2008, 09:32:32 AM
Right the flat earth infinite model.  You quoted
Quote
At least the area in which the earth resides, yes.

In which me and Einstein were discussing the infinite flat earth model.
Yeah, but I am not refering to the infinite earth model, I was just wondering how FE expalins asteroids and the like. Its not the same as the infinite model, is it?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 25, 2008, 02:39:33 PM
Okay well then how do you explain CBR, dark energy and of course universal expansion
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 26, 2008, 05:44:02 PM
What cat got your tongue
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 26, 2008, 05:54:22 PM
I don't attempt to explain holes in RE theory such as dark energy.

The other things I have answered before.  CBR is the maximum heat that aether can be brought to by starlight.

And yes, the universe is expanding. 

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 26, 2008, 08:26:33 PM
Dark energy aint a flaw and it has nothing to do with the round earth and finally the aether is the biggest mistake in physics history and has never been right whenever used
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: dyno on February 26, 2008, 09:04:55 PM
I don't attempt to explain holes in RE theory such as dark energy.

The other things I have answered before.  CBR is the maximum heat that aether can be brought to by starlight.

And yes, the universe is expanding. 



If CBR is an artifact of starlight on the aether, then local sources(The Sun) would completely overwhelm our ability to detect CBR at all. The aether would be saturated from the Sun and we would observe on almost uniformly bright sky. At the correct wavelengths of course.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 26, 2008, 10:04:42 PM
Dark energy aint a flaw and it has nothing to do with the round earth and finally the aether is the biggest mistake in physics history and has never been right whenever used
Dark energy is a big patch over a flaw.


If aether was the biggest mistake in physics history, why is it constantly being reintroduced under other names?  For example, to use something you seem to believe in, quintessence is a form of dark energy.  Quintessence , coming from "fifth essence" coming from the greek fifth essence: aether.

Your namesake also believed in aether.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 26, 2008, 10:07:24 PM
If CBR is an artifact of starlight on the aether, then local sources(The Sun) would completely overwhelm our ability to detect CBR at all. The aether would be saturated from the Sun and we would observe on almost uniformly bright sky. At the correct wavelengths of course.

It is saturated.  Everywhere.

Quote
CBR is the maximum heat that aether can be brought to by starlight.

Am I misunderstanding you?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Benocrates on February 26, 2008, 11:10:48 PM
how does that coincide with yor ice wall b/c there would be no edge to your earth
The icewall is along the perimeter of the habitated area of the earth.

How could we know it continues on if we've never been there?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: dyno on February 26, 2008, 11:29:13 PM
If CBR is an artifact of starlight on the aether, then local sources(The Sun) would completely overwhelm our ability to detect CBR at all. The aether would be saturated from the Sun and we would observe on almost uniformly bright sky. At the correct wavelengths of course.

It is saturated.  Everywhere.

Quote
CBR is the maximum heat that aether can be brought to by starlight.

Am I misunderstanding you?

I think so. I'm saying that if we were to look at space near the Sun, it should appear about as bright as the space behind the Earth(night time for FE's). I'm saying that, as a medium which interacts with thermal energy, the aether surrounding Earth would be too bright to observe distant sources.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 08:53:06 AM
The temperature of starlight matches that of CBR, as theorized by Sir Eddington.  The big bang estimate for the temperature of space doesn't. 


Most of aether has settled down to its equilibrium temperature, that theorized by Sir Eddington.  You observe the data with the sun, and then subtract it out.  Just like in RE?
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 09:07:36 AM
The temperature of starlight matches that of CBR, as theorized by Sir Eddington.  The big bang estimate for the temperature of space doesn't. 


Most of aether has settled down to its equilibrium temperature, that theorized by Sir Eddington.  You observe the data with the sun, and then subtract it out.  Just like in RE?
No one has ever detected the aether let alone took its temperature, stop making things up. Also Sir Eddington believed in relativity. 
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 09:12:59 AM
Why delete your post?
Quote
Relativity holds aether exists.

Eddington predicted the temperature of starlight affecting space.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 09:13:32 AM


Actually you know what, nevermind.  I think I'm done conversing with you.  You truely are a stupid and immature version of gulliver.  And I have no  place for that in my schedule.

Thats why.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 09:16:31 AM
The temperature of starlight matches that of CBR, as theorized by Sir Eddington.  The big bang estimate for the temperature of space doesn't. 


Most of aether has settled down to its equilibrium temperature, that theorized by Sir Eddington.  You observe the data with the sun, and then subtract it out.  Just like in RE?
No one has ever detected the aether let alone took its temperature, stop making things up. Also Sir Eddington believed in relativity. 

When I argue, I always argue that there is a conspiracy.
Because you have too.  There are things that are unexplainible unless you call them a conspiracy. 
Actually you know what, nevermind.  I think I'm done conversing with you.  You truely are a stupid and immature version of gulliver.  And I have no  place for that in my schedule.

Thats why.

Relativity in no way requires there to be an aether.  Einstein and other wanted there to be an aether so they put things into Relativity to make up for not finding one.  (And also of an expanding universe)
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 09:17:57 AM

Actually you know what, nevermind.  I think I'm done conversing with you.  You truely are a stupid and immature version of gulliver.  And I have no  place for that in my schedule.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 09:20:16 AM


When I argue, I always argue that there is a conspiracy.
Because you have too.  There are things that are unexplainible unless you call them a conspiracy. 
Actually you know what, nevermind.  I think I'm done conversing with you.  You truely are a stupid and immature version of gulliver.  And I have no  place for that in my schedule.

Thats why.
lol. While you have no comebacks I will point out how people like you,(you Levee, 17, tom) find random people and then claim they claim the earth is flat or some other random claim but you always fail.   
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 09:21:29 AM

Actually you know what, nevermind.  I think I'm done conversing with you.  You truely are a stupid and immature version of gulliver.  And I have no  place for that in my schedule.

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 09:22:58 AM
(you Levee, 17, tom) find random people and then claim they claim the earth is flat or some other random claim but you always fail.   
First page of last chapter of The Internal Constitution of the Stars by Sir Eddington
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 09:29:08 AM
(you Levee, 17, tom) find random people and then claim they claim the earth is flat or some other random claim but you always fail.   
First page of last chapter of The Internal Constitution of the Stars by Sir Eddington
The local library doesn't contain old outdated books.  Google books does not contain the page.   
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: char70ger on February 27, 2008, 09:50:55 AM
Here is a brand new article from Discovery News about some new Dark Matter discoveries, if anyone is interested.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/02/22/dark-matter-giants.html
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 10:12:51 AM
(you Levee, 17, tom) find random people and then claim they claim the earth is flat or some other random claim but you always fail.   
First page of last chapter of The Internal Constitution of the Stars by Sir Eddington
The local library doesn't contain old outdated books.  Google books does not contain the page.   
Stop making stuff up.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 10:23:16 AM
(you Levee, 17, tom) find random people and then claim they claim the earth is flat or some other random claim but you always fail.   
First page of last chapter of The Internal Constitution of the Stars by Sir Eddington
The local library doesn't contain old outdated books.  Google books does not contain the page.   
Stop making stuff up.

Go check yourself than.  Use google books to post the page or go to my local library and get the book.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: char70ger on February 27, 2008, 10:34:26 AM
It is there!!!!!!
The Internal Constitution of the Stars

Chapter XIII (13) this is the last chapter in the book. Everything after that is appendices.
PAGE 371

Sorry the link is so long but none of the buttons work for me.

http://books.google.com/books?id=K_cYRYZCjNAC&dq=the+internal+constitution+of+the+stars&pg=PP1&ots=G39OVUGcUi&sig=75z2FD5AaylamX_S9TExufV3Qb4&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Internal+Constitution+of+the+Stars+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPA371,M1
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 12:00:17 PM
It is there!!!!!!
The Internal Constitution of the Stars

Chapter XIII (13) this is the last chapter in the book. Everything after that is appendices.
PAGE 371

Sorry the link is so long but none of the buttons work for me.

http://books.google.com/books?id=K_cYRYZCjNAC&dq=the+internal+constitution+of+the+stars&pg=PP1&ots=G39OVUGcUi&sig=75z2FD5AaylamX_S9TExufV3Qb4&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Internal+Constitution+of+the+Stars+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPA371,M1
The link I was using had the first pages of that chapter as "not part of the preview".

So now that I can see it I see that I wasted my time looking for it.  Its proves nothing. 
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 27, 2008, 12:05:32 PM
Look, I hate to say it Username, but aether does not exist...

You can point out the flaws in the first Michelson-Morley experiment as many times as you like, but the fact remains that it was tested with better equipment later, yada yada. And...there's nothing. Aether was first postulated for diffraction/refraction reasons, and we now know about photons, which were not then. Then they went on to want to use aether as a universal FOR for light, sorta the master FOR, and we now know that there is no such thing. So, no, it doesn't exist, sorry there.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 02:23:00 PM
You can point out the flaws in the first Michelson-Morley experiment as many times as you like, but the fact remains that it was tested with better equipment later, yada yada. And...there's nothing.
Michaelson-Morley experiment showed nothing about whether aether exists or not, and neither did further iterations of it.  It had a null result.

Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 02:33:00 PM
You can point out the flaws in the first Michelson-Morley experiment as many times as you like, but the fact remains that it was tested with better equipment later, yada yada. And...there's nothing.
Michaelson-Morley experiment showed nothing about whether aether exists or not, and neither did further iterations of it.  It had a null result.


It was a negative result.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 27, 2008, 03:42:41 PM
I know Einstein believed in the aether however, he wasn't always right and actually he was wrong often. And also dark energy isn't flawed, it is the theories describing it that are. They don't really know what dark energy is. Finally the aether aint dark energy as thy behave completely different.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: Username on February 27, 2008, 04:25:03 PM
You can point out the flaws in the first Michelson-Morley experiment as many times as you like, but the fact remains that it was tested with better equipment later, yada yada. And...there's nothing.
Michaelson-Morley experiment showed nothing about whether aether exists or not, and neither did further iterations of it.  It had a null result.


It was a negative result.
No, stop making shit up.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: einstien on February 27, 2008, 04:36:17 PM
Hmm no not responding to my comment
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: SuperPigeon on February 27, 2008, 05:47:10 PM
Probably because no one understood it.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 27, 2008, 08:41:21 PM
Erm, it detected nothing. Look, if I make an experiment to test whether there is a magnetic field in a room by using a compass or a device to measure it, yada, yada. If the needle is completely unaffected, what can you assume about the magnetic field? It's a null result? No, there isn't a field.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: sokarul on February 27, 2008, 08:42:43 PM
You can point out the flaws in the first Michelson-Morley experiment as many times as you like, but the fact remains that it was tested with better equipment later, yada yada. And...there's nothing.
Michaelson-Morley experiment showed nothing about whether aether exists or not, and neither did further iterations of it.  It had a null result.


 
It was a negative result.
No, stop making shit up.
The experiment was negative.  They did not find the aether.  If you think that the physics was wrong, then by all means, post up the right physics.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: divito the truthist on February 27, 2008, 11:52:14 PM
God...

"The famous Michelson-Morley experiment instead compared the source light with itself after being sent in different directions, looking for changes in phase in a manner that could be measured with extremely high accuracy. The publication of their result in 1887, the null result, was the first clear demonstration that something was seriously wrong with the aether concept of that time. A series of experiments using similar but increasingly sophisticated apparatus all returned the null result as well. A conceptually different experiment that also attempted to detect the motion of the aether was the 1903 Trouton-Noble experiment, which like Michelson-Morley obtained a null result.

It is important to understand what "null result" means in this context. It does not mean there was no motion detected; rather it means that the results produced by the experiment were not compatible with the assumptions used to devise it."
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 28, 2008, 10:02:36 AM
Does no-one understand how science works? The original Michelson-Morley, yes! Subsequent retests, no!!!!! Do FE'ers believe that you only do an experiment once? If, so, I have the secret of cold fusion to sell for only 1 million dollars, a bargain! Payment must be payed fully in advance and in cash...Furthermore, what that means is not that aether doesn't exist, merely has to behave insanely weirdly, and lots of nonsense was added to aether to make it work, but...there was no need for it anymore after relativity...so, we dropped it. You have to prove that it does exist in order to treat aether as a sufficient explanation, or at least come up with a proper explanation as to why it exists, and why both it and relativity exist without doubling said phenomenon, or why aether is a better solution then relativity.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: divito the truthist on February 28, 2008, 10:08:26 AM
I guess you missed this part:

"A series of experiments using similar but increasingly sophisticated apparatus all returned the null result as well. A conceptually different experiment that also attempted to detect the motion of the aether was the 1903 Trouton-Noble experiment, which like Michelson-Morley obtained a null result."

There is also this:

"Positive results were reported by several of the key researchers, including additional experiments by Michelson, Morley and Dayton Miller. Miller reported positive results on several occasions, but of a magnitude that required further modifications to the drag or contraction theories. During the 1920s a slew of increasingly accurate experiments returned the null result, and the positives were generally attributed to experimental errors.

Other positive results included Sagnac in 1913, and the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment in 1925. This effect that is known as Sagnac effect is nowadays used in optical gyroscopes and shows that rotation is similarly "absolute" for light as it is for pendulums. Sagnac regarded this as evidence for the aether[4]"
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: fshy94 on February 28, 2008, 10:29:59 AM
Apologies. You are correct. I thought you were talking about the errors that Michelson-Morley had. At any rate, true, null doesn't prove definitively that aether doesn't exist, but welcome to Russell's teapot. Remember who the BoP is on.
Title: Re: Why is the Earth special?
Post by: divito the truthist on February 28, 2008, 10:40:49 AM
Aye, the BoP would be on Username; although there are a few positive experiments on Wikipedia, as well as through Google. While they can be, or have been attributed to error, it just comes down nothing more than a null argument. :P