The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: leclerc on April 28, 2007, 04:10:54 AM
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Here is a list of illusions in a flat earth theory. Please add up anything that I miss
1) What about sunrises-sunsets?
It's a illusion. The sun actually gets farther away.
2)Illuminated clouds appear before sunrise over the curvature of the Earth.
From narcberry: The same horizon illusion due to the earths acceleration also explains the cloud effect.
3)From narcberry: You look out at the sea. If the horizon was curved, then the highest point would be directly in front of you. Now rotate your body a little to the right. Now the horizons highest point is to the right of its previous location. If such an anomaly existed, it is clearly an optical illusion.
4)From I'm not Tom Bishop but I can't prove it:People have been brainwashed into "seeing" curvature where there is none. I bet if you drew a straight line with a ruler on the board, all these people would see curvature.
5)From dogplatter: If you fly in a plane and see curvature which isn't there even by the admission of round Earthers, it just goes to show how sickeningly effective the conspiracy is at making you believe in their lies.
6)From narcberry: Well you are quite right to observe this. This is however countered by the fact that our eyes actually observe things to be upside down, our brains counter this. This is why the horizon appears to be just the opposite of what you would expect.
7)From Dr. Rowbotham: astronomy is a 'juggle and a jumble of fancies and falsehoods; an elaborate theoretical trick '
8) from Tom Bishop: The sinking ship effect people see is a natural law of perspective
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth? None.
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth?
Round Earth illusions:
Afterglow
Airglow
Alexander's band
Alpenglow
Anticrepuscular rays
Aurora Borealis
Ball Lightening
Belt of Venus
Blue Jets
Blue Moons
Cafe Wall Illusion
Circumzenithal arc
Crepuscular rays
Crepuscular rays
Diffraction of light
Earthquake lights
Fata Morgana
Floaters
Full circle rainbows
Gegenschein
Ghost Lights
Glories
Green Sun
Haidinger's brush
Hering's Illusion
Hessdalen lights
Iridescence
Large Sun at the horizon
Light Pillar
Light of Saratoga
Mirages
Min Min lights
Monocular diplopia (or polyplopia)
Night Rainbows
Opposition effect
Phosphenes from stimulation other than by light (e.g., mechanical, electrical)
Purkinje images
Rainbows
Ray scattering
Refraction
Shadow set
Ship sinking over horizon
Summer Moon Illusion
Sun Dogs
Sun Halos
Sun Pillars
Sylvanshine
The Green ray
The Marfa Lights
Thunderstorm Elves
Thunderstorm Sprites
Tyndall effect
Zodiacal light
Et cetera, Et cetera.
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Floaters
Did this make anyone laugh? Just me then...
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Tommy, are you well?
I phound phloaters phunny too.
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Summer Moon Illusion
What's that?
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth?
Round Earth illusions:
Afterglow
Airglow
Alexander's band
Alpenglow
Anticrepuscular rays
Aurora Borealis
Ball Lightening
Belt of Venus
Blue Jets
Blue Moons
Cafe Wall Illusion
Circumzenithal arc
Crepuscular rays
Crepuscular rays
Diffraction of light
Earthquake lights
Fata Morgana
Floaters
Full circle rainbows
Gegenschein
Ghost Lights
Glories
Green Sun
Haidinger's brush
Hering's Illusion
Hessdalen lights
Iridescence
Large Sun at the horizon
Light Pillar
Light of Saratoga
Mirages
Min Min lights
Monocular diplopia (or polyplopia)
Night Rainbows
Opposition effect
Phosphenes from stimulation other than by light (e.g., mechanical, electrical)
Purkinje images
Rainbows
Ray scattering
Refraction
Shadow set
Ship sinking over horizon
Summer Moon Illusion
Sun Dogs
Sun Halos
Sun Pillars
Sylvanshine
The Green ray
The Marfa Lights
Thunderstorm Elves
Thunderstorm Sprites
Tyndall effect
Zodiacal light
Et cetera, Et cetera.
Thank god these have nothing to do with proving the world flat. Or leclrec would have been owned 1000x more than he already has.
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Leclrec is implying that the only "illusions" are in FE.
But guess what: The sinking ship effect in RE is still an illusion. The ship does not really sink.
Flat Earth Theory perfectly and accurately explains each and every one of its properties and effects. Its "illusions" are necessities of perception.
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Sinking ship isn't an illusion in RE, it's a ship going below the horizon, no illusion there
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Sinking ship isn't an illusion in RE, it's a ship going below the horizon, no illusion there
Yes it is. The ship isn't really sinking into the ocean. It's an "illusion" which stems from the earth's assumed rotundity.
The sinking ship effect in FE is perfectly explained, and makes just as much sense as the imagined curvature of the earth.
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Curvature makes more sense to me than "waves make it look like the ship is sinking"
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Consider a 3D model with an infinite perfectly flat plane. Any receding object on the surface gets smaller and smaller the more distant it gets, right? At the edge of the horizon, any imperfect increase in height, no matter how minuscule, will obscure the object from the bottom up as it shrinks into the distance.
At the horizon there are hundreds of waves, creating a distinct line to the horizon. This means that as the ship shrinks into the horizon it must also sink into mean height of the combined waves. The smaller the ship gets into the distance, the more the waves at the false edge of the horizon will obscure its hull from the bottom up.
Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham found that the vanishing point of the horizon is slightly below the edge of the horizon due the mean combined height of the waves.
It makes perfect sense. Would you like an illustration?
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Yeah draw me a picture bitch
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:'( :'( I'm tired of all the fighting! When are we just gonna be a FAMILY again? :'(
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*points Roundy towards a thread in general discussion*
And we were never a family. And I meant bitch in a loving way, I call all my favourite people bitch.
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The problem with Tom's assumptions is that a 6ft person standing on the shore observing sunset would have to be seeing waves at least 6ft in height (or 5'10, whatever his/her eye level was) in order for them to obscure the sun, whatever the distance. A person sitting in a lighthouse would have to be looking at lighthouse-sized waves etc. I did draw a picture, but then Tom 'corrected' it. ::)
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Draw another picture then, cos I want pictures. For me please.
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I'll have a go....
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Go on then bitch
(bitch is meant in a loving way before you go getting upset)
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;)
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Well go on then. I'm waiting. And stop fucking winking at me or I'll get the wrong idea!
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Don't take offence at the wink, it was a knowing wink not a dirty wink! ;D
Anywhere here's your picture...
(http://web.mac.com/ginpasu/iWeb/Photos/Images/Sunsetting.jpg)
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Damn, wanted a dirty wink.
And good picture, you are so very artistic. Lets just wait til Tom "fixes" it.
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;)
That one's dirty.
Tom, before you attempt a picture correction, take note that the picture is drawn from a side-on perspective so it is a cross-section of the world. The sun is always the same height as FE theory dictates.
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Yay dirty wink! ;)
Tom will just say the perspective thing is the same side on
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Sadly that would be a lie. Tom must know these things really. I shouldn't call it a picture, more a 'diagram'.
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Ok it's a diagram.
Right *waits for a Tom response*
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There is no way he can rebut that. It makes perfect sense. Nice diagram by the way :D
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Don't even bother.
Go back to the previous thread and reread my responses and look again at the illustrations I provided. I'm just going to tell you exactly the same thing, Gin.
- The vanishing point is at eye level with the observer, at the edge of the horizon.
- All receding objects overhead must appear to decline in altitude until they reach the vanishing point.
- The sea level of the earth must appear to incline in altitude until it reaches the vanishing point.
- Everything converges at the vanishing point.
Take a perspectives class sometime.
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Come off it Tom - his drawing is a representation of the actual height of the sun from the waves at all times. It only appears to sink when you view it head on. But what if someone OFF the FE, floating in space (which I know you can't believe but just hypothesise) were to look side-on at the world. They would see what Gin shows us. Now use your crappy persepective argument, becuase what Gin has drawn is EXACTLY that, just zoomed in.
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All of the illusions you mentioned, Tom, have nothing to do with proving the earth flat.
I'm just saying that some things that are explained in RE perfectly normal are said to be illusions in FE
And many of the things you mentioned would appear in FE too
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth?
Round Earth illusions:
Afterglow
Airglow
Alexander's band
Alpenglow
Anticrepuscular rays
Aurora Borealis
Ball Lightening
Belt of Venus
Blue Jets
Blue Moons
Cafe Wall Illusion
Circumzenithal arc
Crepuscular rays
Crepuscular rays
Diffraction of light
Earthquake lights
Fata Morgana
Floaters
Full circle rainbows
Gegenschein
Ghost Lights
Glories
Green Sun
Haidinger's brush
Hering's Illusion
Hessdalen lights
Iridescence
Large Sun at the horizon
Light Pillar
Light of Saratoga
Mirages
Min Min lights
Monocular diplopia (or polyplopia)
Night Rainbows
Opposition effect
Phosphenes from stimulation other than by light (e.g., mechanical, electrical)
Purkinje images
Rainbows
Ray scattering
Refraction
Shadow set
Ship sinking over horizon
Summer Moon Illusion
Sun Dogs
Sun Halos
Sun Pillars
Sylvanshine
The Green ray
The Marfa Lights
Thunderstorm Elves
Thunderstorm Sprites
Tyndall effect
Zodiacal light
Et cetera, Et cetera.
So, what about any that actually apply to this thread? Anything in RE that ios called an optical illusion since the "theorists" realise that they're wrong so come up with some nonsense?
I have yet to see any...
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Tom do you not understand what an illusion is? There is a difference between an illusion and an atmospheric phenomenon. Literaly two-third of these aren't even "illusions", and the rest apply equally to FE. Try again.
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Tom I feel I must defend my diagram once again. It is important you understand that perspective does not change the physical configuration of objects, just their apparent distance from each other/the observer. For example, a boat with a red flag on the mast and a green flag on the hull will always appear this way, no matter how far away it gets. The red and green flags will get closer, but they will NEVER change positions, even to a distant observer. Now imagine the sun is a Red flag and your line of sight is a green flag. The sun, moving further away, may appear closer and closer to your line of sight, but it can NEVER cross it, just as the waves below you can never cross it, and thus the two may never overlap. Appear closer perhaps, but never overlap and obscure each other.
Now, my diagram is taken from the perspective of someone looking at the FE from the side, as if it were sliced, just like this RE geology diagram:
(http://www.amonline.net.au/geoscience/images/earth_diagrams/cross_sect_plate.gif)
I'm sure you can see that the sun will be at constant height in such a diagram, as it doesn't ACTUALLY get lower. The perspective effects apply to the observer IN the diagram, not the outside observer, who will not see the sun approach horizon.
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I don't see how the diagram adds to your argument.
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That particular one doesn't. I was trying to illustrate the way I had drawn my other diagram (the one with the sun and stuff), as Tom seemed to think I had missed out perspective. The diagram in my last post was just to say 'look, I was drawing it like this'.
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Oh, I see. I guess we'll wait for a FE response than. Unless they think it's already been covered...
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You explained it clearly enough already though. If Tom doesn't understand by now I doubt that diagram will help him. Lost cause.
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Lost cause.
FE theory...
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Lost cause.
FE theory...
;D
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth?
Round Earth illusions:
Afterglow
Airglow
Alexander's band
Alpenglow
Anticrepuscular rays
Aurora Borealis
Ball Lightening
Belt of Venus
Blue Jets
Blue Moons
Cafe Wall Illusion
Circumzenithal arc
Crepuscular rays
Crepuscular rays
Diffraction of light
Earthquake lights
Fata Morgana
Floaters
Full circle rainbows
Gegenschein
Ghost Lights
Glories
Green Sun
Haidinger's brush
Hering's Illusion
Hessdalen lights
Iridescence
Large Sun at the horizon
Light Pillar
Light of Saratoga
Mirages
Min Min lights
Monocular diplopia (or polyplopia)
Night Rainbows
Opposition effect
Phosphenes from stimulation other than by light (e.g., mechanical, electrical)
Purkinje images
Rainbows
Ray scattering
Refraction
Shadow set
Ship sinking over horizon
Summer Moon Illusion
Sun Dogs
Sun Halos
Sun Pillars
Sylvanshine
The Green ray
The Marfa Lights
Thunderstorm Elves
Thunderstorm Sprites
Tyndall effect
Zodiacal light
Et cetera, Et cetera.
That is a truly amazing list of Power Metal Bands from Europe, Tom.
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Tom, I know know beyond a shadow of a doubt (no that I doubted it before) that you are full of BS. Blue Moon ::)? Don't make me laugh. That is a term used for the second full moon of the month. It isnt blue. At all. The Aurora is not an illusion, it is charged particles colliding with the atmosphere and the magnetic field of the earth. Ball lightning is not an illusion either. It is electricity trapped within a small area of an opposing charge to it, making it into a ball. Coinsidentally, It forms into a ball (big suprise there) not a disk or cylinder. That's just a thought (used to find a round earth by logic.)
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How many optical illusions is there in the round earth?
Round Earth illusions:
Afterglow
Airglow
Alexander's band
Alpenglow
Anticrepuscular rays
Aurora Borealis
Ball Lightening
Belt of Venus
Blue Jets
Blue Moons
Cafe Wall Illusion
Circumzenithal arc
Crepuscular rays
Crepuscular rays
Diffraction of light
Earthquake lights
Fata Morgana
Floaters
Full circle rainbows
Gegenschein
Ghost Lights
Glories
Green Sun
Haidinger's brush
Hering's Illusion
Hessdalen lights
Iridescence
Large Sun at the horizon
Light Pillar
Light of Saratoga
Mirages
Min Min lights
Monocular diplopia (or polyplopia)
Night Rainbows
Opposition effect
Phosphenes from stimulation other than by light (e.g., mechanical, electrical)
Purkinje images
Rainbows
Ray scattering
Refraction
Shadow set
Ship sinking over horizon
Summer Moon Illusion
Sun Dogs
Sun Halos
Sun Pillars
Sylvanshine
The Green ray
The Marfa Lights
Thunderstorm Elves
Thunderstorm Sprites
Tyndall effect
Zodiacal light
Et cetera, Et cetera.
And how is a rainbow an illusion? Oh and you put "Crap-iscular" rays twice. Maybe to try and make your hilarious list longer? ::)
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Maybe I sould have read that list more carefully. I've actually seen ball lightening, and it's mad bright.
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- The vanishing point is at eye level with the observer, at the edge of the horizon.
- All receding objects overhead must appear to decline in altitude until they reach the vanishing point.
- The sea level of the earth must appear to incline in altitude until it reaches the vanishing point.
- Everything converges at the vanishing point.
Take a perspectives class sometime.
True enough, but these points are completely irrelevant to what he's bringing up. Allow me to show you. In these diagrams we are assuming that we have a perfectly flat surface and a person with perfect eyesight.
(http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4089/perspectiveagainkq4.png)
1. The tree is close up and entirely visible.
2. The tree is very far away and entirely visible. Obviously it will remain so no matter how far away it is.
3. The tree is close up and there is a low wall. The wall obscures only a small amount of the tree because it is close up and we can see over it.
4. The tree is very far away with a low wall. The wall obscures more of the tree because we can no longer see over it as easily. The amount that it obscures will continue to decrease as the distance increases but will clearly never increase past its own height.
5. The tree is close up and there is a high wall. The wall obscures much of the tree because it is so close to the observer.
6. The tree is very far away with a high wall. The wall obscures less of the tree than in case 5 because it is further away and we can see over it. The amount it obscures will continue to decrease as the distance increases but will clearly never decrease below its own height.
From this we conclude that as any object gets further and further away from an observer, the height of the area not visible due to an obstruction will approach the height of the obstruction.
This means that, on a flat Earth, in order for a tanker (20 feet of freeboard) to be obscured by waves so that its hull appears, say, half below the horizon, you would need waves 10 feet high! That's pretty choppy seas. An even more significant result from this is that if what Tom says is true the "distance to the horizon" would be significantly different based upon the average wave height. In calm seas, the horizon would stretch on nearly forever!