The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Big N on April 15, 2007, 12:48:40 PM
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No one has yet explained to me why Foucault pendulums swing in opposite directions in opposite hemispheres.
Also, no one has explained to me why Foucault pendulums swing in a complete circle at the poles but onjly swing in one direction at the equator.
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No one has yet explained to me why Foucault pendulums swing in opposite directions in opposite hemispheres.
Also, no one has explained to me why Foucault pendulums swing in a complete circle at the poles but onjly swing in one direction at the equator.
a CoNsPiRaCy!!!111!!11!11
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To be technical the one I saw in France swung 280 degrees or something like that. Not a full circle in one day.
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Tom said it spins because the Earth is rotating, but that doesn't account for the opposite spin south of the equator or the lack of spin at the equator.
Franc (by the way what happened to him) said wind
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Tom said it spins because the Earth is rotating, but that doesn't account for the opposite spin south of the equator or the lack of spin at the equator.
Franc (by the way what happened to him) said wind
They'll probably say, "You have no evidence." And what did happen to Franc?
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Maybe he got tired of being a moron.
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I expect his dad turned off his computer and he couldn't work out how to make it work again...
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Haha. I wonder what he was thinking when he said that wind was the cause of the rotation. Has he ever done anything to do with science? What scientist wouldn't factor out wind.... like come on, that was just such a stupid comment. Maybe he was grounded from FES for being so stupid.
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In the FES the kind of blind stupidity he has would get him a promotion. He's probably running the whole show now. Hail Lord Franc! Planars unite!
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To be technical the one I saw in France swung 280 degrees or something like that. Not a full circle in one day.
That's exactly what is supposed to happen. At the poles, the pendulums swings 360 degrees because the earth is rotating under it, and at the equator it swings nil because it is swinging with the earth's rotation. Everywhere in between, the pendulum will swing somewhere between 0 degrees and 360 degrees depending on its position relative to the equator/poles.
That is perfect proof of the Foucault pendulum.
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It's comments like those from Gin and EIRD that make threads spiral off into mindless conversations about crap. This is the third time I've posted the Foucault pendulum argument, because all the other ones spiraled off into mindless chatter. Please stop with the stupid comments, and keep this thread on topic. It's not that hard.
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My bad :( it's just so tempting to talk about Franc. As far as I can see the Foucault Pendulum argument is not flawed, and I haven't seen a decent FE rebuttal yet....
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It's comments like those from Gin and EIRD that make threads spiral off into mindless conversations about crap. This is the third time I've posted the Foucault pendulum argument, because all the other ones spiraled off into mindless chatter. Please stop with the stupid comments, and keep this thread on topic. It's not that hard.
Probably because 99/100 people on this forum think its a waste of bandwidth.
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Just read the wikipedia articles on the Foucault Pendulum and the Coriolis effect. It's basically because if you're looking down on the North Pole, the earth is rotating counter-clockwise, whereas if you're looking down on the South Pole, it's rotating clockwise.
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mikedar, we know exactly why it rotates in opposite directions at opposite poles. the question is how that is possible on FE.
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Oh, right, I got confused there for a second and thought he was curious about how they operated in RE.
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I've always held that the opposite swinging motion in the Southern Hemisphere was an old wives tale. It simply does not happen. Léon Foucault never traveled to the Southern Hemisphere to test his hypothesis of a backwards spinning pendulum.
Maybe you guys should take a trip to the Southern Hemisphere and build a Foucault Pendulum to prove Foucault correct.
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Although they did set up a Foucault Pendulum at the South Pole itself, all you need to be is south of the equator to verify that it will spin in the opposite direction.
I think they might have noticed if it was spinning the wrong way.
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here is a list of foucault's pendula in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Foucault_pendula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Foucault_pendula)
ignore the one in at the south pole if you wish, it could be a conspiracy. but there are plenty in the southern hemisphere, in australian and argentinian universities, etc
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There are five Foucault Pendulums in Australia according to that list. Two in Argentina.
That list doesn't say which way they turn, merely that they exist or have once existed.
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Ok, fine, the pendula go unchecked in all of the southern locations. What about the fact that cyclones in the northern and southern hemisphere rotate in opposite directions?
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yes but most people are of the opinion that it spins in opposite directions in the southern hemisphere. don't you think that most of the southern hemisphere universities would tend to disagree if they were noticing the opposite effect? unless they are all in on the conspiracy...
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That's a lot of people to pay off... and what if they dont accept the governments money. Thats what I dont get. Not everyone would accept a bribe. The truth would get out... quick question; Have they tried to pay off you Tom?
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Indeed. Textbooks and other sources would list the pendula as swinging in different directions for northern and southern hemispheres, and surely the southern hemisphere universities would notice this and alert people to this discrepancy. If you're going to buy them off with conspiracy, the cost just went up (again). That's professors, students and anyone else who looks at it. The whole of flat earth is painfully north-centric (not surprisingly as FE theory was invented in the UK and USA).
So, are the southerners liars, conspirators or fools?
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There's only one person at each of the Southern Hemisphere Universities who needs to be paid off. He's the guy who rigs the pendulum to rotate the opposite way.
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How does that work exactly? And what about amateurs building their own pendulums. High schools might do this, as might individual households. If the pendulum is anything like the (quite large) one at the London Science Museum, the mechanism is open to public view and would be almost impossible to 'rig'.
(If you were being sarcastic then excuse the seriousness of my response, but I don't want FEers hijacking that argument and riding it into the ground)
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Well, some of them are kept swinging by motors, but you're right, there are way too many to keep track of.
Maybe the southern hemisphere doesn't exist at all.
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There you go. How can you have a hemisphere on a plane? You can't, thank you bye now. :)
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Well, some of them are kept rotating by motors, but you're right, there are way too many to keep track of.
Maybe the southern hemisphere doesn't exist at all.
there not kept "rotating" by motors, that would defeat the entire purpose. they're kept swinging electrically so that the pendulum doesn't stop because of air resistance...
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Hmmm. So the southern hemiplane it is....and still no answers...
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Sorry, I meant swinging, but i wrote rotating. I mean, the swing is still a type of rotation, but I changed the OP.
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yes but most people are of the opinion that it spins in opposite directions in the southern hemisphere. don't you think that most of the southern hemisphere universities would tend to disagree if they were noticing the opposite effect? unless they are all in on the conspiracy...
Maybe, maybe not. Could you tell me which way the pendulum should rotate in the Southern Hemisphere without referring to anything published about it? Most likely not.
The people in the Southern Hemisphere order the devices from the Northern Hemisphere suppliers, set it up, and simply assume that it is rotating in the correct direction without a second thought. After all, the Foucault Pendulum is museum exhibit for children. There is no real scientific study of its movements at the different regions of the Earth.
Textbooks and other sources would list the pendula as swinging in different directions for northern and southern hemispheres, and surely the southern hemisphere universities would notice this and alert people to this discrepancy. If you're going to buy them off with conspiracy, the cost just went up (again).
If you've ever attended a university you would know that no real research or introspection takes place. It's all memorization and cramming of wrote information. Maybe a student somewhere noticed that the pendulum swings in the incorrect direction. But a single student isn't prepared to challenge all of modern science. If the student persisted I doubt that even a tabloid would publish his observation.
There's only one person at each of the Southern Hemisphere Universities who needs to be paid off. He's the guy who rigs the pendulum to rotate the opposite way.
Samuel Birley Rowbotham discounts the movements of the pendulum entirely, attributing its movement to a number of other factors. See Chapter 14, section 7 of Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za39.htm).
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Order the device from NH suppliers? WTF are you smoking man....tie a rock to fishing wire, pull back, let go. You now have a pendulum. If it swings long enough you see it change direction. How hard is that to understand? And I thought you aggreed that the FE rotates...so is Sammy's outside influence right or is the FE rotating....make up your damn mind for once it's starting to piss me off.
EDIT: I'm getting angry Tom. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry *turns green and starts smashing things*
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Order the device from NH suppliers? WTF are you smoking man....tie a rock to fishing wire, pull back, let go. You now have a pendulum. If it swings long enough you see it change direction. How hard is that to understand?
It's true that Foucault's original pendulum was unpowered. But modern Foucault Pendulums are powered devices with electromagnets that periodically reset the pendulum. An electromagnet is needed if you expect the pendulum to perpetually rotate against air friction. Having to manually reset the pendulum every few hours does not really lend well to a children's museum exhibit.
And I thought you aggreed that the FE rotates...so is Sammy's outside influence right or is the FE rotating....make up your damn mind for once it's starting to piss me off.
I agree that the movements of the pendulum indicate a rotating earth, but I have to be fair to the other FE proponents on this forum who disagree with the pendulum entirely.
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Maybe, maybe not. Could you tell me which way the pendulum should rotate in the Southern Hemisphere without referring to anything published about it? Most likely not.
The people in the Southern Hemisphere order the devices from the Northern Hemisphere suppliers, set it up, and simply assume that it is rotating in the correct direction without a second thought. After all, the Foucault Pendulum is museum exhibit for children. There is no real scientific study of its movements at the different regions of the Earth.
anyone can make a pendulum and prove it themselves.
"without a second thought"? most of them are set up in UNIVERSITIES. where the students and professors know what should happen. no real scientific study? you have got to be kidding. this is your most baseless argument yet.
If you've ever attended a university you would know that no real research or introspection takes place. It's all memorization and cramming of wrote information. Maybe a student somewhere noticed that the pendulum swings in the incorrect direction. But a single student isn't prepared to challenge all of modern science.If he persisted I doubt that even a tabloid would publish his observation.
considering the number of labs i do every semester, trust me, science in school is not about cramming knowledge from a textbook. another baseless attack. and i won't even address that "single student" comment, single students get their work published all the time, in fact most grad students are REQUIRED to publish, as are most professors. case in point: if all students did was cram information, why would universities bother setting up a foucault's pendulum in the first place?? obviously it's to watch, study, and understand.
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Tom that's a load of crap. Universities are centres of research. Who would spend money on a lovely shiny foucault pendulum if it was for kids (how many kids are there at universities). And wouldn't a museum of modern science in the southern hemisphere (with SCIENTISTS not just kit-assemblers) worry if the direction it rotates is contradictory to the way it should rotate according to their explanatory exhibit? Your arguments get stupider every single day I swear, there is no way NO-ONE would notice a pendulum going the wrong way.
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There's only one person at each of the Southern Hemisphere Universities who needs to be paid off. He's the guy who rigs the pendulum to rotate the opposite way.
Samuel Birley Rowbotham discounts the movements of the pendulum entirely, attributing its movement to a number of other factors. See Chapter 14, section 7 of Earth Not a Globe (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za39.htm).
Wow, Tom, did you look at the link you posted at all? It shows that the variations in PERIOD of a pendulum swinging in one dimension, like that of a clock, can be explained. It has nothing to do with rotations.
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http://www.camex4.com/photos/Ivan.A2004259.1850.2km.jpg (http://www.camex4.com/photos/Ivan.A2004259.1850.2km.jpg)
http://www.camex4.com/photos/Ingrid.A2005067.0400.1km.jpg (http://www.camex4.com/photos/Ingrid.A2005067.0400.1km.jpg)
two hurricanes, one in australia, the other in the united states. note the obvious opposite direction.
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You can't rely on obviously faked satellite photos.
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http://science-design.com/ (http://science-design.com/)
foucault's pendulum can be built by anyone, any time. that website sells some, but notice what it is. a tripod with a piece of string and a ball. are you suggesting that if hundreds of people saw the pendulum in a university going the opposite way that is suggested in their textbook, not one would think to try it themselves?
don't write off an inconvenient fact as lazy or stupid students.
note the quote at the bottom of the page...
"Science isn't about memorizing facts, it's about exploring and being able to prove those facts. The Science Design Foucault Pendulum proves that the Earth is rotating and now everyone can see that for themselves!"
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Holy crap! $695! What the hell can possibly explain that price?
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Wow, Tom, did you look at the link you posted at all? It shows that the variations in PERIOD of a pendulum swinging in one dimension, like that of a clock, can be explained. It has nothing to do with rotations.
Uh, the pendulum DOES vibrate back and fourth like a clock.
Watch that cheesy video promo on http://science-design.com for a visual. They sell Foucault Pendulums for elementary school classrooms.
don't write off an inconvenient fact as lazy or stupid students
If you were unfamiliar with Flat Earth Theory and were confronted with a Foucault Pendulum in a children's museum are you telling me that you would immediately study and analyze the direction it rotates just for kicks?
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....that doesn't explain them going in opposite directions in the south.
i posted the link purely so you could see that anyone can build one. what did the conspirators do, pay off everyone in the southern hemisphere? with all this paying off, you gotta wonder where the financial advantage is...
now, please, without suggesting it's lazy or stupid or ignorant book-worm university students and professors, please explain why it goes in opposite directions down there...
or the pictures of oppositely spinning hurricanes i posted.
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Wow, Tom, did you look at the link you posted at all? It shows that the variations in PERIOD of a pendulum swinging in one dimension, like that of a clock, can be explained. It has nothing to do with rotations.
Uh, the pendulum DOES vibrate back and fourth like a clock.
Watch the cheesy video promo on that website http://science-design.com/ for a visual.
Yes, but the only thing that Rowbotham explains is that the Period of the swing can be affected by temperature variations. He said nothing about the direction in which it rotates at all. Just because it swings back and forth faster or slower, doesn't mean it's not going in a circle.
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....that doesn't explain them going in opposite directions in the south.
The backward moving pendulum in the Southern Hemisphere is nothing more than a hypothesis. Until I see a direct personal observation or reference of an opposite moving pendulum I remain unconvinced.
Yes, but the only thing that Rowbotham explains is that the Period of the swing can be affected by temperature variations. He said nothing about the direction in which it rotates at all. Just because it swings back and forth faster or slower, doesn't mean it's not going in a circle.
Rowbotham is obviously referring to the Foucault Pendulum. Not just any regular pendulum on a clock. Why else would he dedicate a section to explaining its movements in his book entitled Earth Not a Globe?
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Yes, but the only thing that Rowbotham explains is that the Period of the swing can be affected by temperature variations. He said nothing about the direction in which it rotates at all. Just because it swings back and forth faster or slower, doesn't mean it's not going in a circle.
Rowbotham is obviously referring to the Foucault Pendulum. Not just any regular pendulum on a clock. Why else would he dedicate a section to explaining its movements in his book entitled Earth Not a Globe?
He dedicates that chapter because a variation in the period of a pendulum indicates either a change in g or a change in its length. A change in g is inconsistent with flat earth theory, so he attempt to explain it with the latter.
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The Science Museum of London isn't a 'children's museum' and, I suspect, neither are all the other science and technology museums in the world. The universities are not for children, and if you're looking for a place full of angry, anti-establishment intelligent people who are willing to challenge the status quo then you'd probably want to look at a university first. I'm sure a few Australian or Argentinian university students would be overjoyed to prove the commonly accepted theory of Earth wrong. I'm sure we all know people (might even be so ourselves) who would take a stab at the establishment if we could. Your theory relies on almost EVERYONE being lazy and unwilling to investigate this problem, in a university full of SCIENTISTS. Have you ever met a real scientist, Tom? They'll be the first to tell you it isn't exactly a money-pot of a profession, so I doubt they'd just write off this inconsistency all the time all over the world when they are presumably passionate about their subject...
Edit: http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html
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it is NOT a hypothesis! it has been directly observed! just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean nobody has. believe it or not, there are many people in this world who have seen and learned many things that you have not.
http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html (http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html)
there it is, there's your "reference", straight up, from the university of new south wales, in australia. there's even a movie for you. note where it says there is NO electromagnetic drive, so it's not a magical motor making it go in the opposite direction.
and i SHOWED you pictures of oppositely spinning hurricanes, so even YOU have seen those.
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Beat me to it.
Riddle me that Mr Bishop!
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Obviously the pictures are photoshopped and the videos are tampered with from either fusion or after effects.
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It also occurred to me that meteorologists take satellite photos every day. Those photoshoppers must have a lot of work to do.
Edit: Taking all bets on how long it takes for this thread to be closed.
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http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html
1.) There is no video on that site. Just various copied gif animations from all over the internet.
2.) The author claims in the article that his pendulum moves perpetually and is unpowered. This is completely impossible. Obviously the author does not really have a pendulum and is writing the article off the cuff for classroom acclaim.
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They don't say it moves perpetually. It says 'for a few hours'.
You can't debunk every anti-FE source this way, because there's just too many of them. Any digital video is an animation of one kind or another, the video on this site is as legitimate as any and theres NO reason to believe it is not genuine other than it doesn't agree with your theory (no scientific grounds to disbelieve its credibility).
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I don't think you read that, Tom
The Foucault Pendulum at the School of Physics of The University of New South Wales is a "hands-on" version. There is no electromagnetic drive but, because of its size once it is started it will swing for several hours. Visitors are invited to start it swinging in a plane that is accurately defined by a fixed vertical wire and a vertical line on the wall. (See the animation above) The pendulum takes seven minutes to precess one degree, but even smaller angles than this can be seen by sighting along the reference plane.
EDIT: Bolded the important part so Tom doesn't have to waste time reading.
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It was conducted by a teacher. You can e-mail him if you wish, and ask him how much the government is paying him to be in on the conspiracy: [email protected]
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It also occurred to me that meteorologists take satellite photos every day. Those photoshoppers must have a lot of work to do.
It doesn't take very long to photoshop a picture. They could take 100 pictures a day and one person could modify them and still have time for dinner and the kids.
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It also occurred to me that meteorologists take satellite photos every day. Those photoshoppers must have a lot of work to do.
It doesn't take very long to photoshop a picture. They could take 100 pictures a day and one person could modify them and still have time for dinner and the kids.
Hmm, I should look into that, it sounds like a good job.
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tom...what can one possibly say to you?
you ask for clarification, i give it to you.
you ask for references, you ignore them. (i note you still haven't responded to my hurricane pics)
you ask for movies, i give them to you, you write them off.
i bet you could personally be in the space shuttle in orbit, observing the round earth, and writing it off as a conspiracy or a fake.
nothing you have said recently has any scientific backing or common sense, and you don't even read our posts or links properly.
besides your "it's all a lie" i ask you...can your next post PLEASE have some semblance of scientific explanation in it?
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It also occurred to me that meteorologists take satellite photos every day. Those photoshoppers must have a lot of work to do.
It doesn't take very long to photoshop a picture. They could take 100 pictures a day and one person could modify them and still have time for dinner and the kids.
Hmm, I should look into that, it sounds like a good job.
Heh, digital arts rock. It's what I do!
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He's part of the conspiracy! Get him!
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Oh noes, they're on to me! *runs away and hides*
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You guy know you can just use a globe to see what why the pendulum seems to turn since it actually does turn. I will in a while if no one else does.
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lol we've all pictured it in our heads or seen the internet animations and know exactly why it works, as well as exactly why it's opposite in the southern hemisphere. tom just can't seem to accept the idea, and appears to have run away since i asked him for scientific reasoning, not ad hominem attacks and the denial of well-documented phenomenons.
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See: The Sokarul Principle
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12589.new (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12589.new#new)
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I still deny that the pendulum would turn in a counter-clockwise direction over the surface of the Earth. The author writes authoritatively, taking his information directly from books and articles. Under no pretense does he give a quantitative or experimental analysis of which direction the pendulum turns, or which factors might affect it.
The "video" he provides does not give a direction of the pendulum. It is unclear which of the animations came first. It is likely that he found them on the internet like his other animations and slapped it together, switching around the animations to correspond with his hemisphere.
Samuel Birley Rowbotham points out the several flaws with the Foucault Pendulum at different latitudes in Chapter 14, Section 21 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za52.htm) of Earth Not a Globe. I suggest you study it for further reference. One of the amazingly big flaws he found was that the pendulum does not always rotate in the same direction on each test run.
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God, I hate reading that damn page. All the tiny text makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Is this your only source of the pendulum rotating in wrong ways? I say that this experiment has been repeated numerous times, and just because some crackpot said that it didn't work a couple times doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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...that wasn't scientific...
and before i completely trust Rowbotham's scientific experiments, i would like to remind you that he was conducting them with a specific goal in mind as to what results he wanted to find. i remind you of the "bedford level experiment" in which he thought he had proved a flat earth, only to have the experiment redone, proving a round earth, and seeing co-flat-earther john hampden imprisoned for libel.
of the hundreds of foucault's pendula in the world, many at universities, rowbotham is the first i have heard of, well over 100 years ago, to ever suggest its findings were flawed.
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t's likely that he found them on the internet like his other animations and slapped it together, switching around the animations fro his latitude.
There is NO REASON to believe this, except its disagreement with your theories. You succeeded only in doing what we all expected you to do: Attack perfectly adequate source and throw the book at us. Here's a news flash: Samuel Rowbotham was wrong. When a member of the scientific community conducts a faulted experiment he is checked and ultimately discredited by the community of scientists at large. This has happened many times and Rowbotham is just one in a long line. No even vaguely mainstream scientist today supports his theories, or any others that suggest the earth is flat. And it's not because their universities and societies have been feeding them lies all their lives, because if you guys are right a lot of these guys (astronomers, anyone that does work involving gravity caused by mass, those who study the suns rays, antarctic climatologists to name a few) are seriously wasting their lives, and falsifying results and still not getting rich. Get real. Rowbotham is dead, and his theories have only outlived him due to the blind ignorance of people like you.
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The experimenter gives you the exact results of the experiment: "One hour later, the amplitude of the swing has diminished, and the plane has precessed about 9 degrees in the anti-clockwise direction (Sydney is in the Southern hemisphere). We clearly see the pendulum crossing the reference plane."
Edit: The 9 degrees agrees very well with M. Foucault's formula
angle = -2(pi) sin (latitude)
The latitude of Sydney is -33.88, therefore the angle for one day is approx. 200 degrees.
For one hour, this gives 8.3 degrees of rotation.
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Damn, Gin......damn
EDIT: I felt that one from here....it burns.
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Let me run down my checklist...
A. Tom failed to answer an REers question himself.
B. Tom threw the Crypt Keeper's book at us.
C. The thrown section of the Crypt Keeper's book failed to even apply to the question.
D. Tom asks for references...and completely ignores them when provided.
Wow! All for criteria are met. Time to...UP THE OWNAGE COUNT!
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I'm tellin you agent...That's gota turn into a PWND count...I say at 10.
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*Has calmed down*
I agree on the PWNED count. If I could be bothered I'd keep a 'Rowbotham mentions' count. It'd probably take too long....
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I plan on making a future thread providing a thorough dissection of all factors besides the rotation of the earth that could be affecting the pendulum at the different latitudes of the earth.
There is NO REASON to believe this
I must direct you all to the glaring inconsistencies on that page. If any of you have ever been to Australia, or have any Australian friends, you will notice that all maps and visualizations of the Globe from that part of the region are upside-down. On my last visit to Australia it was a breathtaking sight to see the continents of the world portrayed upside down with the words right side up. Without fail the entire country of Australia, as well as all other Southern Hemisphere countries turn over the entire world in order to place themselves on top and front featured.
This cultural pride is so vast that each elementary school in Australia has its globes positioned with the South Pole at the top of the world. Every single map of the world in Australia is upside down from what Northern folks know.
Go back to that page (http://www.physclips.unsw.edu.au/jw/foucault_pendulum.html) describing the southern pendulum and notice how each portrayal of the world has North America on top. The bullets of the page, the animations of the Foucault Pendulum all portray the world from a North Hemisphere perspective. It is immediately obvious that the author just took his images from internet sources and that they were not animated from within the Australian school.
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Or, maybe he was doing it that way because...he chose to? People have this thing called free will which lets them do pretty much what they want. It's quite fascinating.
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Or, maybe he was doing it that way because...he chose to? People have this thing called free will which lets them do pretty much what they want. It's quite fascinating.
Would any illustrator in North America draw the earth with the southern pole at the top? NO.
Likewise, no Australian illustrator would draw the world with the North Pole at the top.
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You don't know that for sure. You're making assumptions. You can draw the N or S poles wherever the hell you please, as long as you keep everything correct in respect to them, the world still turns out the right way. That's the magic of an almost spherical shape.
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Or, maybe he was doing it that way because...he chose to? People have this thing called free will which lets them do pretty much what they want. It's quite fascinating.
Would any illustrator in North America draw the earth with the southern pole at the top? NO.
Likewise, no Australian illustrator would draw the world with the North Pole at the top.
Now that's just a plain old lie. See, the nice thing about the internet, is that you can see things from all over the world. Go to any image search engine, and type in "Australia". Tell me how many upside-down images you get. No photoshopping, i have to see the original URL.
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Don't you love watching shit spew form Tom's mouth? It's like a waterfall sometimes.
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His creativity impresses me quite a lot.
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His creativity impresses me quite a lot.
The problem is creativity != science.
I have a theory about Tom:
Tom doesn't know science, but he knows what he likes!
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Tom you're wrong again. The only northern-hemisphere-upwards image is the one of the rotating earth, which he did no doubt take from somewhere else as it's not too easy to create. That wasn't the experimental evidence though, just a demonstration of the theory. WHY would someone intentionally lie on a small school-based website? Where's the motivation? Why can't you accept there isn't a living scientist who agrees with you and your theory is less scientific than 'Young Earth Creationism' (and that theory is pretty screwed up).
And Australians don't draw their maps the other way. I've only seen that once and that was a joke souvenir map that was sold to tourists my dad brought back from Australia. Don't make yourself look sillier than you already are.
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Yeah, I was just going to say that, Gin. I searched for upside down maps, and the only thing that comes up are novelty maps.
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I didn't bother because I could smell the shit he was spewing...Tom's a troll who somehow became a mod.
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Now that's just a plain old lie. See, the nice thing about the internet, is that you can see things from all over the world. Go to any image search engine, and type in "Australia". Tell me how many upside-down images you get. No photoshopping, i have to see the original URL.
Those are all Northern Hemisphere representations of Australia. It should be obvious that Northern Hemisphere countries make up the vast vast majority of the internet. The presence of Australia on the internet is amazingly small.
We actually have a moderator on this very forum who lives in Australia. To him the portrayal of our Australia is entirely odd. Growing up he has been conditioned to look at Australia positioned in a completely different direction.
This (http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/hobodyer-large.jpg) is what an Australian map of the world looks like in an Australian classroom.
See this page for evidence that Australian maps are upside down: http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/
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Irrelevant. You obviously didn't read my post. There is only one North-up map on his site, which he obviously took from someone else but it doesn't form part of the experimental data.
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From the very site (http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/) you got your picture from, it tells you near the bottom that Australian maps are Pacific centred. Yes, SOME are upside down, but definitely not all.
Direct quote: "Australia: Maps are pacific centred. [ Source: Mail from Rev. ]"
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How's this Tom, People can still navigate from an upside down map, yet according to FE they wouldn't be able to....
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Irrelevant. You obviously didn't read my post. There is only one North-up map on his site, which he obviously took from someone else but it doesn't form part of the experimental data.
I have provided clear and indisputable proof that the author is taking his animations from outside sources which he does not quote or give proper credit to. It takes no large stretch of the imagination to see that he is taking his other images and information directly from outside sources as well.
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Imagination. And no, you're wrong. The ONE animation he PROBABLY took from an outside source was an illustrative diagram of his theory, he never claimed it was his own work or that is was evidence of the functioning of the Foucault pendulum. Don't be ridiculous.
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I may have been asleep, but when did you provide clear and indisputable proof that it was a stolen video? All you said was that it was likely, and even that was completely unfounded.
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Tom your arguments are irrelevant. The point that was intended to be made was still made. Instead of trying to disprove the point you instead try to discredit the author of the article presented to you. Many people have discredited your Lord Rowbotham or however you spell his name and when this happens you just plug your ears and go "nahnahnahnah I don't hear you". You don't even believe in the FE the way Rowbotham did, yet you present his book like it's your damn bible. You ask for proof, but when presented with it you always act in the same manner. This is why I believe you are nothing but a troll, no better than Franc T., Planar himself. How you became a mod is beyond me. I expect you to remove this post because that's what you seem to do.
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For Tom, clear and indisputable proof is out of the question. It is, however, not unreasonable to ask for reliable or semi-reliable evidence that the University Of New South Wales is intentionally falsifying its information. I don't see any. And just because they didn't create the fonts and programming languages for their website themselves doesn't mean their experiments are being falsified or taken from outside sources too. It's just one animation and it's not evidence they are lying.
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Bah. I'm done with this topic for today, it's been pretty much exhausted. Tom's JUST GOT OWNED count is up, and that's good enough for me. I can't wait until tomorrow so we can see how the Foucault Pendulum's rotation is the consequence of other forces. Until then, good night everybody.
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Irrelevant. You obviously didn't read my post. There is only one North-up map on his site, which he obviously took from someone else but it doesn't form part of the experimental data.
I have provided clear and indisputable proof that the author is taking his animations from outside sources which he does not quote or give proper credit to. It takes no large stretch of the imagination to see that he is taking his other images and information directly from outside sources as well.
Funny you mention someone stealing someone else's work and not giving credit.
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http://www.australia.gov.au/ (http://www.australia.gov.au/)
australian government offical website
http://www.bom.gov.au/ (http://www.bom.gov.au/)
aussie govt: bureau of meteorology, official websiet
http://www.ga.gov.au/map/ (http://www.ga.gov.au/map/)
you'll like this one: official maps from the govt of australia
http://www.brasil.gov.br/ingles/tourism/ (http://www.brasil.gov.br/ingles/tourism/)
brazilian government tousism page
http://www.govt.nz/record?tid=6&recordid=6161 (http://www.govt.nz/record?tid=6&recordid=6161)
map of new zealand, courtesy of their government
http://www.chileangovernment.cl/ (http://www.chileangovernment.cl/)
from the chilean government. i like this one because it even says in the map heading, just for tim, "chile, from north to south"
note how the home country is always pictured northern side up in all these pictures. bit of stretch to say that every map from the southern hemisphere is upside down, isn't it?
i don't even know why i bothered to find these considering how ridiculous your post was in the first place.
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So I was reading over all the posts since I have created this thread yesterday (all FIVE PAGES OF POSTS!!), and one thing stuck out to me. Tom said that until he sees an opposite-rotation pendulum in the southern hemisphere, he will remain unconvinced. And videos apparently won't work for him.
Let's try a little logic. A bunch of people in the northern hemisphere say that the Foucault pendulum rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere (including me, I've seen it at the Griffith Observatory in California). Also, a bunch of people in the southern hemisphere say that the Foucault pendulum rotates counterclockwise in the souther hemisphere.
Now, Tom is saying that the northern hemisphere people are correct, but he is also saying that the southern hemisphere people are wrong. Tom has not even seen a Foucault pendulum in the southern hemisphere, but he says they are wrong anyway.
BUT, if the people in the southern hemisphere were wrong, a lot of people would notice. Word would spread to the northern hemisphere that, hey, Foucault pendulums do actually rotate clockwise. And therefore we would not have so many people believing that the southern hemisphere pendulums rotate counter clockwise and 6 billion people beleiving the earth is round. We do, in fact, know that this is not the case, though.
Foucault pendulums follow a highly predictable path that can be mathematically predicted down to the finest precision anywhere on earth, if the position of the pendulum is known. Claiming that that is a coincidence is like claiming that a2 + b2 = c2 in a right triangle being true is only a coincidence.
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Let's try a little logic. A bunch of people in the northern hemisphere say that the Foucault pendulum rotates clockwise in the northern hemisphere (including me, I've seen it at the Griffith Observatory in California).
Was this pendulum you saw powered or unpowered?
Also, a bunch of people in the southern hemisphere say that the Foucault pendulum rotates counterclockwise in the souther hemisphere.
Only ONE man from Australia who steals pictures from the internet says it spins in the opposite direction.
Now, Tom is saying that the northern hemisphere people are correct, but he is also saying that the southern hemisphere people are wrong. Tom has not even seen a Foucault pendulum in the southern hemisphere, but he says they are wrong anyway.
According to the list posted earlier there are very very few pendulums in the Southern Hemisphere.
BUT, if the people in the southern hemisphere were wrong, a lot of people would notice. Word would spread to the northern hemisphere that, hey, Foucault pendulums do actually rotate clockwise. And therefore we would not have so many people believing that the southern hemisphere pendulums rotate counter clockwise and 6 billion people believing the earth is round. We do, in fact, know that this is not the case, though.
If one man from the southern hemisphere challenges all of those six billion people do you really think anyone would notice? Would his observations make a drop in the bucket? Do you think anyone in the Northern Hemisphere would CARE what this man saw?
The truth is that science is as dogmatic as any religion. While I'm an atheist, I can see this very clearly. Scientists have a nasty habit of using the world "evolution" as a magic wand to avoid explaining the exact process and mechanism of natural selection on a biochemical level, for example.
Foucault pendulums follow a highly predictable path that can be mathematically predicted down to the finest precision anywhere on earth, if the position of the pendulum is known. Claiming that that is a coincidence is like claiming that a2 + b2 = c2 in a right triangle being true is only a coincidence.
For decades upon decades people have thought that the Coriolis force between hemispheres was real. Snopes recently provided an analysis that debunked it (http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp).
Why have people blindly believed in the Coriolis force for so long? Because it was simply what they were told it was what should happen. Basically the matter was so unimportant that everyone was too lazy to do experimental study of their own.
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This ONE man who has NOT been shown up a liar is working for a university, so presumably others have seen it. The electromagnet power on SOME Foucault's pendula are not inducing rotation, why would they? If they are so confident the world is round they wouldn't be needed. Besides, there are plenty (like the one at UNSW we linked) that are not powered. You've jumped from the one link we cited being good evidence to this man being the only one in the southern hemisphere to observe this effect. That's being ridiculous if ever I saw it! Please return with a credible argument that doesnt rely on chronic scientific laziness that you have just asserted exists without any real indication other than your equally ridiculous assertion that science is dogmatic.
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This is from the Griffith Observatory web site:
The gently swaying Foucault Pendulum in the W.M. Keck Foundation Central Rotunda has long been a visitor favorite since the building opened in 1935. One of the largest such devices in the world, the fully restored pendulum is actually an elegant scientific instrument which demonstrates the Earth's rotation.
The 240-pound brass ball, suspended by a cable 40 feet long, swings in a constant direction while the Earth turns beneath it. The pendulum is mounted to a bearing in the rotunda ceiling that does not turn with the building as it rotates with the Earth. A ring magnet at the bearing gives a little tug on each swing of the pendulum to keep the pendulum in motion. As the day passes, the pendulum knocks over pegs set up in the pendulum pit and indicates the progress of rotation.
So yes, there is a magnet the keeps the pendulum swaying. The magnet, however, does not make the pendulum turn.
How do you know that only one man in australia says that a Foucault pendulum swings counterclockwise? Do you know everyone who has seen a Foucault pendulum. Do you know everyone who has reported anything on a Foucault pendulum? No, you don't. I don't, either. But I know that when I do a Google search for "Foucault pendulum southern hemisphere" all the web sites that are returned say that Foucault pendulums swing counterclockwise. These sites include both .com sites (from the northern hemisphere) and .au sites (from australia) like http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/pendulumdetails.html (http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/pendulumdetails.html).
There are five Foucault pendulums in Australia, two in Argentina, one in Puerto Rico, and one in Antarctica. Considering the number of latitudes these are located at, and the availability of them (except for maybe the one at Antarctica), anyone can go visit them and know exactly how much they are going to turn if they did the right amount of math.
If one man from the southern hemisphere challenges all of those six billion people do you really think anyone would notice? Would his observations make a drop in the bucket? Do you think anyone in the Northern Hemisphere would CARE what this man saw?
I repeat, these Foucault pendulums are widely observable (except maybe the one in Antarctica). If the Foucault pendulum really didn't work, then more than one man would be talking about how it doesn't work, and eventually people would realize "Hey, this actually doesn't work."
For decades upon decades people have thought that the Corolis force between hemisphers was real. Snopes recently provided an alysis that debunked it.
Why have people blindly believed in the Corolis force for so long? Because it was simply what they were told and they were too lazy to do experimental study of their own.
Snopes never did any experiment that debunked the Coriolis effect on earth. Snopes did an experiment that debunked the Coriolis effect on water going down a sink ::). Here's the link: http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp (http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp).
I can't believe you, Tom. I just can't believe you. Snopes did an experiment proving that the Coriolis effect doesn't affect water going down toilets and sinks, but you say that Snopes debunked the actual Coriolis effect. You try to be scientific, but you change the facts to match your argument. That's utter cowardice in terms of debate. Utter cowardice. Grow some balls, and don't change what other peoples' experiments found. It's insulting.
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For real. Where's your precious scientific method, Tom? I don't mean in your own experiments, I mean the interpretation of others results.
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;D ;D ;D Tom, you ignorant slut! Did you do a search for "Coriolis Effect disproven" and link to this site without looking at what it said? Or are you that much of a douche that you deliberately posted false information?
Either way it doesn't help you're credibility. You are a fantastic human specimen, Tom. ::)