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Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:

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markjo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2011, 01:02:10 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 12:10:52 PM
I have never seen evidence that all parts of the equator receives exactly 12 hours of daylight every day of the year.

Believe it or not, there are cities on or near the equator and I'm sure that residents of those cities can provide first hand testimony as to how many hours of daylight they receive. 

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 12:10:52 PM
Even in RET, the equator does not receive 12 hours of daylight every day of the year. The sun is not over the equator throughout the year, it's constantly moving Northward and Southward between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn

In FET, the equator doesn't receive 12 hours of daylight any day of the year, yet inhabitants of equatorial cities seem to observe otherwise.  A simple orrery can demonstrate how it's possible for the sun to illuminate 1/2 of the equator any day of the year.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2011, 01:13:34 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 12:10:52 PM
Even in RET, the equator does not receive 12 hours of daylight every day of the year. The sun is not over the equator throughout the year, it's constantly moving Northward and Southward between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn

No. The RE sun can still provide 12 hours of sun throughout the year. It just follows a different arc in the sky at different times of the year for people on the equator.  I've checked this using a rotating globe at home (with the axis at an angle) at different point in the room.  Try it yourself.

This is not possible on a FE.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2012, 01:00:09 PM
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.
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A.R. Wallace

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2011, 01:29:36 PM »
There is something a bit odd about that orrery.  Notice it?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2011, 02:17:48 PM »
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 01:02:10 PM
Believe it or not, there are cities on or near the equator and I'm sure that residents of those cities can provide first hand testimony as to how many hours of daylight they receive. 

Yeah, but in RET they would only be receiving 12 hours of daylight a year if the sun was over the equator throughout the year. It's not.

Quote
A simple orrery can demonstrate how it's possible for the sun to illuminate 1/2 of the equator any day of the year.



If the earth were tilting forward and backwards every 6 months the sun would not give the ring of the equator 12 hour days.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 02:25:53 PM »
Quote from: A.R. Wallace on June 29, 2011, 01:29:36 PM
There is something a bit odd about that orrery.  Notice it?

The Moon is backwards?
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
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Unknown != Magic.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 02:49:20 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 02:17:48 PM
If the earth were tilting forward and backwards every 6 months the sun would not give the ring of the equator 12 hour days.

Yes it would.  At any orientation of a globe, half it's equator will be visible.  The only exception is if you are looking straight down or straight up on the globe.

Try it on any spherical object with an equator.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2012, 01:00:09 PM
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.
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markjo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 03:39:19 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 02:17:48 PM
If the earth were tilting forward and backwards every 6 months the sun would not give the ring of the equator 12 hour days.

Perhaps this will illustrate the RE axis tilt a little better:

http://www.astronomy.org/programs/seasons/

BTW, I don't see you providing any illustrations of how the FE equator could ever receive 12 hours of daylight on any day of the year.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 03:42:17 PM by markjo »
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 03:54:41 PM »
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 03:39:19 PM
BTW, I don't see you providing any illustrations of how the FE equator could ever receive 12 hours of daylight on any day of the year.

It has not been demonstrated that the equator receives 12 hour days.
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markjo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 04:01:38 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 03:39:19 PM
BTW, I don't see you providing any illustrations of how the FE equator could ever receive 12 hours of daylight on any day of the year.

It has not been demonstrated that the equator receives 12 hour days.

Not even on the days of the equinox?  As I said, there are cities on or very near the equator.  First hand testimony from their residents is readily available.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:03:16 PM by markjo »
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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A.R. Wallace

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 04:53:15 PM »
Yeah, me!  Ive been there (or close) and seen it.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 04:54:01 PM »
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 03:39:19 PM
BTW, I don't see you providing any illustrations of how the FE equator could ever receive 12 hours of daylight on any day of the year.

It has not been demonstrated that the equator receives 12 hour days.

Not even on the days of the equinox?  As I said, there are cities on or very near the equator.  First hand testimony from their residents is readily available.

Where is it readily available? I've never seen anything of the sort.
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A.R. Wallace

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 04:56:32 PM »
Look at the post above yours, Tom.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 05:00:07 PM »
Quote from: A.R. Wallace on June 29, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
Look at the post above yours, Tom.

Forum noobs are not trustworthy sources.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 05:07:56 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
Forum noobs are not trustworthy sources.

There is no source that you would ever accept, except for what you see first-hand.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.
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berny_74

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 05:16:12 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 04:54:01 PM
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: markjo on June 29, 2011, 03:39:19 PM
BTW, I don't see you providing any illustrations of how the FE equator could ever receive 12 hours of daylight on any day of the year.

It has not been demonstrated that the equator receives 12 hour days.

Not even on the days of the equinox?  As I said, there are cities on or very near the equator.  First hand testimony from their residents is readily available.

Where is it readily available? I've never seen anything of the sort.

From Belem, Brazil
For today

Quote from: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=446
Sunrise at   6:16 AM   in direction   67°   East-northeast   
Sunset at   6:19 PM   in direction   293°   West-northwest   
Duration of day: 12 hours, 2 minutes (same as yesterday)
Sun in north at 12:17 PM at altitude 65° above horizon


And Mombassa, Kenya

Quote
Sunrise at   6:28 AM   in direction   67°   East-northeast   
Sunset at   6:22 PM   in direction   293°   West-northwest   
Duration of day: 11 hours, 53 minutes (1 second longer than yesterday)
Sun in north at 12:25 PM at altitude 63° above horizon

Djibouti, Djibouti
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Sunrise at   5:48 AM   in direction   66°   East-northeast   
Sunset at   6:37 PM   in direction   294°   West-northwest   
Duration of day: 12 hours, 49 minutes (7 seconds shorter than yesterday)
Sun in north at 12:12 PM at altitude 79° above horizon

Suva, Fiji
Quote
Sunrise at   6:38 AM   in direction   66°   East-northeast   
Sunset at   5:41 PM   in direction   294°   West-northwest   
Duration of day: 11 hours, 3 minutes (9 seconds longer than yesterday)
Sun in north at 12:10 PM at altitude 49° above horizon

Galapagos, Ecuador
Quote
Sunrise at   6:00 AM   in direction   67°   East-northeast   
Sunset at   6:04 PM   in direction   293°   West-northwest   
Duration of day: 12 hours, 4 minutes (same as yesterday)
Sun in north at 12:02 PM at altitude 66° above horizon

All this are within 10 degress of the Equator North or South.  All are showing within 12 hours and some odd minutes of sunlight.  I chose these places not by random choice but they've all been places where I have personally been.


Berny
BTW If you play the not has been demonstrated because I refuse to acknowledge when its clearly been giving I will start to use your logic in all the forums until a mod admonishes me.
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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.
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A.R. Wallace

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2011, 05:21:45 PM »
Interesting that the sun was highest in Djibouti today.

It's fun in the northern tropics to watch the sun head North of you in June , then come back over in July.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2011, 05:27:20 PM »
Quote from: berny_74 on June 29, 2011, 05:16:12 PM
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=446

<snip>

All this are within 10 degress of the Equator North or South.  All are showing within 12 hours and some odd minutes of sunlight.  I chose these places not by random choice but they've all been places where I have personally been.


Berny
BTW If you play the not has been demonstrated because I refuse to acknowledge when its clearly been giving I will start to use your logic in all the forums until a mod admonishes me.

That's a calculator, not first-hand observation.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2011, 05:29:37 PM »
Do we really have to prove to you what happens outside every day for thousands of people? Do you honestly believe NOBODY would notice soemthing was wrong and say "Hey... I don't think those sunrise sunset times are correct..."? Tom, admit you are wrong and just fix FET.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2011, 05:30:46 PM »
Quote from: Harutsedo on June 29, 2011, 05:29:37 PM
Do we really have to prove to you what happens outside every day for thousands of people?

Thousands of people are not timing every second of their day to compare and contrast alternative world models.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2011, 05:32:33 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Harutsedo on June 29, 2011, 05:29:37 PM
Do we really have to prove to you what happens outside every day for thousands of people?

Thousands of people are not timing every second of their day to compare and contrast alternative world models.

No, but there are many people who like to watch sunsets.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.
*

berny_74

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2011, 05:34:06 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: berny_74 on June 29, 2011, 05:16:12 PM
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=446

<snip>

All this are within 10 degress of the Equator North or South.  All are showing within 12 hours and some odd minutes of sunlight.  I chose these places not by random choice but they've all been places where I have personally been.


Berny
BTW If you play the not has been demonstrated because I refuse to acknowledge when its clearly been giving I will start to use your logic in all the forums until a mod admonishes me.

That's a calculator, not first-hand observation.

Check bolded.

Berny
Prove it wrong.

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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »
Quote from: Harutsedo on June 29, 2011, 05:32:33 PM
No, but there are many people who like to watch sunsets.

Hopeless romantics in third world countries are not ideal sources of scientific inquiry.

Quote from: berny_74
Check bolded.

Berny
Prove it wrong.

I've been to New York. That doesn't mean that I've studied the heavens throughout the year from that location.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2011, 05:38:43 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
Hopeless romantics in third world countries are not ideal sources of scientific inquiry.

Not ideal, but they have never noted a discrepancy in times listed in various sources. Which says something.

EDIT: This really is stupid. Normally, people try to make theories conform to reality. Not the other way around.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:40:42 PM by Harutsedo »
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
Quote from: Harutsedo on June 29, 2011, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
Hopeless romantics in third world countries are not ideal sources of scientific inquiry.

Not ideal, but they have never noted a discrepancy in times listed in various sources. Which says something.

I really doubt that 20 year old Miguel and Maria are looking for discrepancies in sunset times.

But even if they did, what makes you think that you would hear about it? Do you think that the first thing they'd do would be hire an English translator and jump on the phone with the an american media outlet about it, or that an american media outlet would run such an uninteresting story?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:47:29 PM by Tom Bishop »
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berny_74

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2011, 05:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
Quote from: Harutsedo on June 29, 2011, 05:32:33 PM
No, but there are many people who like to watch sunsets.

Hopeless romantics in third world countries are not ideal sources of scientific inquiry.

Quote from: berny_74
Check bolded.

Berny
Prove it wrong.

I've been to New York. That doesn't mean that I've studied the heavens throughout the year from that location.

With the exception of Fiji I travelled to those cities by ship.  While sailing I was taught basic sextant use and the noon times where extremely important to us.  And while I never excelled the officers all continued to use celestial navigation as back up.  You may herp derp all you want just because something doesn't agree with you like you have in the past but each time you do it makes you sound like a silly person.

Berny
TB is being a very silly Homo.

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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.
?

A.R. Wallace

  • 253
Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2011, 05:50:05 PM »
As a number of members here (even noobs) have seen these first hand and even lived with them, that does it for me.   Maybe if I had not seen it myself, but I have.

I'll work a bit on a graphic to see what shape the "spotlight" would have to be to achieve this effect.

EDIT: Cross post with Berny.
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Harutsedo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2011, 05:51:50 PM »
Quote from: A.R. Wallace on June 29, 2011, 05:50:05 PM
I'll work a bit on a graphic to see what shape the "spotlight" would have to be to achieve this effect.

See, Tom? This is called being productive.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2011, 05:53:20 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
Forum noobs are not trustworthy sources.
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A.R. Wallace

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2011, 05:55:35 PM »
Forum oldies are not to be trusted.

Ha!
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markjo

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Re: Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2011, 07:23:05 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
Forum noobs are not trustworthy sources.

What makes you a more reliable source?
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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