Regarding your FAQ, I think you need to update this statement:

Q: "Why has no one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: Only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.  Also, nobody has been to the edge of the Earth and lived; conditions on the Ice Wall get increasingly treacherous the further you get out, and navigation methods become unreliable that far south.  It is also possible that the Conspiracy is guarding the edge to prevent people from getting too close to the truth.

  Anybody with some free time, and some extra cash can reach those heights.  If everybody in your society donated 10 dollars you could do it too.  Numerous amateurs can send crude craft into the upper reaches of the atmosphere, so are you saying this guy is part of the conspiracy too?   

Those high altitude balloons at the edge of the atmosphere are looking down at a circle.

Those high altitude balloons at the edge of the atmosphere are looking down at a circle.

  Then, at the very least you acknowledge that the statement in your FAQ is wrong.  You could also make one yourself to verify your sentiment.

When did Tom acknowledge that?

 When he acknowledged that everyday people can send those baloons high up enough into the atmosphere, it directly contradicts your FAQ statement that only those connected to the conspiracy can.

No, the FAQ states that only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.

The high altitude balloons allow us to discern nothing explicit regarding the overall shape of the Earth.

Incorrect, Tom himself has acknowledged that in the RE model that a height of 60,000 feet is required to discern the shape of the earth.  Those balloons can exceed that height. (Also he is wrong)

 the FAQ requires updating, random everyday people now have to be considered part of the conspiracy.

Quote

No, the FAQ states that only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.

The high altitude balloons allow us to discern nothing explicit regarding the overall shape of the Earth.

Incorrect, Tom himself has acknowledged that in the RE model that a height of 60,000 feet is required to discern the shape of the earth.

I didn't say that. I said 60,000 feet is where one starts to see some slight curving to the horizon.

In FET this is because one is looking down at a circle.

Only NASA & Co. can get to such extraordinary distances beyond the earth as to allegedly see the entire earth as a globe. Hence the FAQ is correct.

Quote from: Sorunx on June 25, 2011, 05:53:54 PM

Quote

No, the FAQ states that only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.

The high altitude balloons allow us to discern nothing explicit regarding the overall shape of the Earth.

Incorrect, Tom himself has acknowledged that in the RE model that a height of 60,000 feet is required to discern the shape of the earth.

I didn't say that. I said 60,000 feet is where one starts to see some slight curving to the horizon.

In FET this is because one is looking down at a circle.

Only NASA & Co. can get to such extraordinary distances beyond the earth as to allegedly see the entire earth as a globe. Hence the FAQ is correct.

 Video I posted did show a clear round shape, likewise you are incorrect about only NASA and Co being able to reach that height.  FAQ requires updating.

Quote from: Sorunx on June 25, 2011, 05:53:54 PM

Quote

No, the FAQ states that only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.

The high altitude balloons allow us to discern nothing explicit regarding the overall shape of the Earth.

Incorrect, Tom himself has acknowledged that in the RE model that a height of 60,000 feet is required to discern the shape of the earth.

I didn't say that. I said 60,000 feet is where one starts to see some slight curving to the horizon.

In FET this is because one is looking down at a circle.

Only NASA & Co. can get to such extraordinary distances beyond the earth as to allegedly see the entire earth as a globe. Hence the FAQ is correct.

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

Video I posted did show a clear round shape

Yes. A circle.

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.  The lit portions would be some strange sort of ellipse.  If you keep wanting to claim a "circular spot light" you would have to rework the FE map to make the time zones fit properly into a "circular spot light"

Berny
Tom making stuff up again

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

actually, this is not true. at the very least, there are problems with the "spotlight" Sun model. please see "Problem 1)" and "Problem 1) (revisited) in my thread:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49250.0

thanks

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

this is why:

actually, this is not true. at the very least, there are problems with the "spotlight" Sun model. please see "Problem 1)" and "Problem 1) (revisited) in my thread:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49250.0

thanks

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:11:22 PM

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

this is why:

Quote

actually, this is not true. at the very least, there are problems with the "spotlight" Sun model. please see "Problem 1)" and "Problem 1) (revisited) in my thread:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49250.0

thanks

I didn't see where you demonstrated that the sun's spotlight has to be elliptical and not circular.

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

Because the areas of land that are lit at any one time in no way resemble a circular spot light on the classic FE projection or any RE projection.  The spotlight would have to change size and shape depending on seasons.  In fact imagine the shape of the spotlight as it has to deal with the southern areas. 

You may argue against the 24 hour day in the antarctic is a phony or hoax but the fact is that places like Puerto Williams and Punta Arenas during their summer months where it never gets darker than twilight.  That same sun has to also light up Australia - completely opposite of the map.

Berny
And its not bendy light phenomena

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

Because the sun provides almost exactly 12 hours of daylight to the equator every day of the year.  A circular spotlight can't do that on a flat earth.  That is, unless you can provide a map where this is possible.

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 06:13:20 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:11:22 PM

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 12:53:51 AM

if those videos are actually showing the "circle" of the flat Earth, then we should see all of the continents simultaneously. however, this is not what we see in these videos. there are many of them, some in which you can clearly see only a few of the continents on one hemisphere of a round Earth.

A thick blue atmosphere and uncountable clouds obscures most of the earth's surface in the op's video. It's hard to say what can be seen.

Also keep in mind that we would not be able to see the entire earth in FET. You would be looking down at the circle of the sun's light upon the earth. You would not see anything which is in night.

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

this is why:

Quote

actually, this is not true. at the very least, there are problems with the "spotlight" Sun model. please see "Problem 1)" and "Problem 1) (revisited) in my thread:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49250.0

thanks

I didn't see where you demonstrated that the sun's spotlight has to be elliptical and not circular.

correct, i did not. i demonstrated that the Sun's spotlight cannot illuminate only parts of the Earth at a time. the spotlight would still cast light on the entire FE. that is it actual problem with the spotlight-Sun model (among others)

correct, i did not. i demonstrated that the Sun's spotlight cannot illuminate only parts of the Earth at a time. the spotlight would still cast light on the entire FE. that is it actual problem with the spotlight-Sun model (among others)

As light passes through the atmosphere, it gets scattered, or faded, or something of the sort. Therefore, the light would be more concentrated at the closest point to the Sun on the Earth.

Quote from: be cool on June 27, 2011, 07:03:47 PM

correct, i did not. i demonstrated that the Sun's spotlight cannot illuminate only parts of the Earth at a time. the spotlight would still cast light on the entire FE. that is it actual problem with the spotlight-Sun model (among others)

As light passes through the atmosphere, it gets scattered, or faded, or something of the sort. Therefore, the light would be more concentrated at the closest point to the Sun on the Earth.

even so, the light would still be visible (even though dimmer) from all places on the FE.
again, this is not observed.

also, the phenomenon you mentioned is called Compton Scattering, which scatters light by the following equation:

L' - L = h/(mc) ( 1 - cos(A) ),

where
L' is the final wavelength of the light,
L is the initial wavelength,
h is Planck's constant (h = 6.626 * 10^(-34) J s),
m is the mass of the object it scatters off (typically an electron; m = 9.11 * 10^(-31) kg),
c is the speed of light (c = 3.00 * 10^8 m/s), and
A is the angle that the light is scattered.

However, the light doesn't get faded at all, it still has the same intensity. it only shifts in wavelength, so the color changes.
So actually, the Compton Effect would spread the light out more, making the distribution of light more even, not more concentrated.
Thus, the Compton Effect is a bigger problem for FET.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 27, 2011, 06:11:22 PM

Quote from: berny_74 on June 27, 2011, 01:52:34 PM

The sun does not make a circular "spotlight" though.

Why not?

Because the sun provides almost exactly 12 hours of daylight to the equator every day of the year.  A circular spotlight can't do that on a flat earth.  That is, unless you can provide a map where this is possible.

Very good point. Tom ?  Any FEer ?

I don't understand - why can't it supply the 12 hours light 12 hours dark at the equator?

I don't understand - why can't it supply the 12 hours light 12 hours dark at the equator?

Because, when you put a round spotlight on a flat earth, you can't get 50% coverage of that flat earth. 

Very nice graphic, thanks!

It would be interesting to play around with that some to see what size and shape spot would be needed to concur with standard observations of the sun. Like the equinox, solstices, etc.

Very nice graphic, thanks!

It would be interesting to play around with that some to see what size and shape spot would be needed to concur with standard observations of the sun. Like the equinox, solstices, etc.

Not to be inflammatory, but shouldn't a competing theory have to show that it predicts certain phenomena - like the variation of daylight hours - better or at the same level as the other theory, before even it's believers take it seriously?

Also, please see the following thread because it brings up the point that the current model of the FE Sun cannot shine light on just one part of the Earth at a time, it must illuminate (even slightly) the entire Earth all the time.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49250.0
(Specifically "Problem 1)" and "Problem 1) (revisited)" at the bottom. Thanks)

I own a flashlight.  It does not illuminate my entire house at once.  I have often worked as a spotlight operator.  The spotlight does not illuminate the whole stage at once - that's the point of using it.

And don't forget, the inverse square law does not apply to light beams that have been focused via a reflector and/or a lens.  This is a point it seems hard for many people to understand, but it's one of the basic reasons to use a reflector or lens.

Quote from: A.R. Wallace on June 28, 2011, 09:08:06 AM

I don't understand - why can't it supply the 12 hours light 12 hours dark at the equator?

Because, when you put a round spotlight on a flat earth, you can't get 50% coverage of that flat earth. 

You're assuming that the sun's spotlight is 1/4th of the earth's surface.

How do you know that the spotlight doesn't extend beyond the North Pole and stretch further Southward and take up greater surface area?

You're assuming that the sun's spotlight is 1/4th of the earth's surface.

How do you know that the spotlight doesn't extend beyond the North Pole and stretch further Southward and take up greater surface area?

Then why don't you provide a picture that shows how a "spotlight sun" can provide 12 hours of daylight to the equator every day of the year, while also providing the appropriate variable length days north and south of the equator? 

Quote from: Tom Bishop on June 29, 2011, 11:28:56 AM

You're assuming that the sun's spotlight is 1/4th of the earth's surface.

How do you know that the spotlight doesn't extend beyond the North Pole and stretch further Southward and take up greater surface area?

Then why don't you provide a picture that shows how a "spotlight sun" can provide 12 hours of daylight to the equator every day of the year, while also providing the appropriate variable length days north and south of the equator?

I have never seen evidence that all parts of the equator receives exactly 12 hours of daylight every day of the year.

Even in RET, the equator does not receive 12 hours of daylight every day of the year. The sun is not over the equator throughout the year, it's constantly moving Northward and Southward between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn

True Tom, but the day/night are close to equal in the tropics.  In places like Quito, Ecuador the sun comes up at 6:30 AM, goes down at 6:30 PM most of the year.  Farther north in Hawaii there is more variation, but still nothing like what is seen in Europe.

BTW, the solstice is not the longest day in the tropics.