Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?

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Is it true we cannot see the north star past the equator, because it would fit a globe if so... but do we have different stars on the southern hemisphere???  Or what exactly is going on?  Please if anyone has any videos or information about this link and or explain.
And any other information helps aswell, thank you God bless

Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 03:05:55 PM »
Is it true we cannot see the north star past the equator, because it would fit a globe if so...

This is correct, more or less.

It's possible to see Polaris from slightly south of the equator because it's not exactly on the pole... it's about 3/4 degree away, so it would rise, at least briefly, down to a similar south latitude (i.e. 0.75° S) due to geometric considerations alone.

In addition to that, it may be visible even if geometrically below the horizon because of atmospheric refraction, which makes objects outside the atmosphere appear about 1/2 degree higher than they actually are when they're near the horizon.

Another consideration is when you are observing from well above the surrounding terrain, the visible horizon will be lower than 0°, elevation, as well, so something that's below the ideal horizon (the horizon at your own elevation) can be above the actual horizon.

Working against all of these is atmospheric extinction, where the long path through the thickest (and dirtiest) part of the atmosphere causes objects to be dimmed, so even when Polaris is theoretically visible, it might be too dim to see.

All of these mean that it might be possible to see Polaris, at least on occasion down to perhaps 2° South longitude or so from some places. But, yeah..., "you can't see Polaris from south of the equator" is generally true.

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but do we have different stars on the southern hemisphere???  Or what exactly is going on?  Please if anyone has any videos or information about this link and or explain.

There are a different set of stars south of the celestial equator than north of it, but you don't suddenly go from seeing one set to seeing the other when you cross the equator. From the north pole, you can see only stars in the northern celestial hemisphere (essentially - the above applies), and they are up all the time. As you observe from further and further south, more and more stars in the southern hemisphere rise above the horizon (and fewer and fewer of the northern stars remain above it full time), until you reach the equator, where all stars at least reach the horizon at some point in the day or night (and no stars are above it at all times). If you continue traveling south, some of the northern stars never reach the horizon, while more and more stars at increasing distance from the south celestial pole are constantly above the horizon, until you get to the south pole, where you now see only southern hemisphere stars, and they all are always up.

All of this it easy to explain if the earth is a globe and the stars are distant. It might be possible to find some explanation for this on a flat earth, but, to my knowledge, no one has come up with one that works satisfactorily, yet.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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rabinoz

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Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 04:00:22 PM »
Is it true we cannot see the north star past the equator, because it would fit a globe if so... but do we have different stars on the southern hemisphere???  Or what exactly is going on?  Please if anyone has any videos or information about this link and or explain.
And any other information helps aswell, thank you God bless
Under the best conditions, Polaris might be seen slightly south of the equator from near sea level and from a few degrees further south if viewing from a high altitude.

We do have quite different stars in the Southern Hemisphere.
The most notable groups are Centaurus, a bright constellation with Alpha Centauri being about 61° south and Crux (the Southern Cross) about 60° south.
At the appropriate time of the year, these can be seen as far as 30° north of the equator.
I see the Southern Cross anywhere from about 60° above the southern horizon to parts of it touching the southern horizon.

The Constellation Guide: The Southern Cross

I live in the Southern Hemisphere at about 27° S and we see the night sky looking very similar to the Northern Hemisphere night sky, except that:
1) There is no Polaris to mark the centre of rotation. There is a faint star Sigma Octantis but it's rarely even visible.
2) In the Northern Hemisphere, the stars appear to rotate anti-clockwise about Polaris but here they appear to rotate clockwise about Sigma Octantis.

Here are some star trail multiple exposure photos that far better than I could take. The colour has been enhanced on the first.
Many star trail photos are multiple exposure, especially ones with a well exposed foreground as the one on the right.
Places further south have more "circumpolar stars".

Star trail: Mosquito Creek, Lake Eppalock, VIC.
(Credit: Lincoln Harrison) (about 37°S)
From: Australian Geographic, Stunning star trail photography
     Places further north have fewer "circumpolar stars".

Star trails at Ravenswood Church, QLD
(by Cameron Laird). (about 21°S)
From: Your Shot Runner Up: ‘Ravenswood’s star trails’

And try this one! Star trails - looking up from South Pole, Robert Schwarz.

Then there is this video of the Southern Hemisphere star trails looking south from Mt Cooke in Western Australia. Note the absence of Polaris!

Mount Cooke - Western Australia | A Time Lapse/Star Trail Journey | Maximum Exposure - Shane O'Reilly Photography

The time lapse of the star trails starts at about 40 seconds in.

Mt Cooke, Western Australia, is at 32.4142° S, 116.3078° E, so the South Celestial Pole should be about 32° above Southern the horizon.

I hope this helps.


Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 10:07:04 PM »

All of this it easy to explain if the earth is a globe and the stars are distant. It might be possible to find some explanation for this on a flat earth, but, to my knowledge, no one has come up with one that works satisfactorily, yet.

And this is where flat earth ideas hit a huge, probably insurmountable problem.

The stars we can see from earth form a complete celestial sphere around us, from our vantage points on the surface.  From only a few locations and a couple of times of year, we can see in all directions.  360 degrees all the way round.

Apart from the very slight refraction of light from stars low on the horizon, or very tiny amount of parallax due to earth’s orbit, the angle between any two stars in the sky measured from earth is always the same, regardless of your location or time of year.. 

Even if flat earthers ever got round to trying to fit a full celestial sphere of observations onto a hemispherical dome (or whatever), it would require some pretty extreme distortion due to “bendy light” or “flat earth perspective”.  Constellations would warp and twist as the “firmament” rotates above us, and as we change location.  It would be like looking at the stars through a goldfish bowl.

But of course that doesn’t happen at all.  The angular distances between all the stars in the celestial sphere remain fixed.

I don’t see any way around this.  It’s just not going to work. Which is probably why most flat earthers don’t even try to explain it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 10:20:43 PM by Unconvinced »

Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 01:21:27 AM »
So it is more complicated than to explain... Is there any tests one can do as far as mathematics with the stars or sun or angles to show flat earth.  I know there has been many with the horizon with cameras.  I guess I should ask what are the favored tests one can do, I don't have an ocean near me any time soon or any huge body of water

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wise

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Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 01:46:02 AM »
Is it true we cannot see the north star past the equator, because it would fit a globe if so... but do we have different stars on the southern hemisphere???  Or what exactly is going on?  Please if anyone has any videos or information about this link and or explain.
And any other information helps aswell, thank you God bless

for the same reason as the sunset. Due to the refractive index of the dome and perspective, the objects appear much lower altitude than they are. the equator distance to the north pole is also equal to the farthest distance you can see the sun. refraction of light causes you to see the object below the sky than its real position. as the object moves away, it appears further downward due to the perspective. Since angular size is an inverse trigonometric function, objects farther than 6000 kms merge with the skyline, making it impossible to see. Since the polar star is 6000 kilometers from the equator line, it is impossible to see it from further distances. that is to say, the polar star is still there, but because of the perspective and angular size problem you cannot see it anymore because it is adjacent to the skyline. Best regards.
1+2+3+...+∞= 1

Come on bro, just admit that the the earth isn't a sphere, you won't even be wrong

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rabinoz

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Re: Does anyone here know much about star trails and pole star?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 01:50:48 AM »
So it is more complicated than to explain... Is there any tests one can do as far as mathematics with the stars or sun or angles to show flat earth.  I know there has been many with the horizon with cameras.  I guess I should ask what are the favored tests one can do, I don't have an ocean near me any time soon or any huge body of water
I think it needs someone who believes the earth to be flat to explain the flat earth ideas on these star trail photos.