Moon observations

First I want to start off by saying I am new here.  My Mom is a firm believer that the earth is flat.  I am very open minded about all ideas, but there is one part that puzzles me more than anything.  That is the moon.

Of course some people believe it is self illuminated and some believe that it is illuminated by the Sun.

So first I have a question regarding the Sun illumination the moon.  If the sun is illuminating the moon, it would still light half of the moon similar to how globe version would.  But in the case of the moon being just over the earth, wouldn't that mean that depending on where the observer is,  they would see a different phase, if everybody was looking at the moon at the same time??  I guess this would also go for self illuminating moon as well, because to some they would only see the dark side.  So first why does everybody see the same phase of the moon?

My last question is regarding the face of the moon.  I am not claiming to know an answer I am really here seeking answers.   As the moon sets for 1 observer and rises for another observer.  In the flat earth view, how can both observers see the same face of the moon?  And adding to that,  how come the face of the moon that I see is always pointing at me even as the moon fades out of my view?

Thanks,  I am not here to troll,  I simply cannot find an answe about this.  I am here to learn.

If the moon if self-illuminating, why would the same face not be seen from two locations? There would only be one possible display of light visible.

I'm not sure what your second question is asking. It feels as though the answer to your first addresses it.

If the moon is setting for me and I see a full moon, meaning all of the light is shining towards me,  and at the same time it is rising for somebody else.  Wouldn't they not see a full lit moon.  Unless the moon is facing me and them at the same time?   I am simply asking if the moon is directly between two observers settin for one and rising for the other.  How do the see the same face of the moon?

If the moon is setting for me and I see a full moon, meaning all of the light is shining towards me,  and at the same time it is rising for somebody else.  Wouldn't they not see a full lit moon.  Unless the moon is facing me and them at the same time?   I am simply asking if the moon is directly between two observers settin for one and rising for the other.  How do the see the same face of the moon?

There's only one face. How could you see different faces?

I don't think u understand the question,  if the moon is a ball and it is right between two people as its rising for one and setting for the other,  then those people will observe different sides of the ball.  What I can't understand is how they observe the same side of the ball when that ball is between them.

I don't think u understand the question,  if the moon is a ball and it is right between two people as its rising for one and setting for the other,  then those people will observe different sides of the ball.  What I can't understand is how they observe the same side of the ball when that ball is between them.

There is only one side that can be observed. I'm not sure what your question is.

Ok never mind,  I will wait for somebody else to respond

I too, am struggling to understand your questions, decay.

Are you asking:

1. If the moon is much closer to us than ~250,000 miles, and the earth is flat, why don't observers in different locations see different phases?

2. If the earth is flat, why does everyone see the same features on the "circle" of the moon?

Ok imagine this,

Take a tennis ball and paint half of it black,   

String it up as high as you can,  in a huge warehouse for all I care.   The yellow side is the lit side.

You and your buddies sit at opposit ends of this huge room,  as low to the ground as you want.  Face the lit side to you and ask your buddy if he sees the same lit side as you do?

That's the point I a making.   If it's only 3000 miles high. When it's 5000 miles a way right in between 2 people standing 10000 miles away,  they would obviously see different sides of the moon right?

I think you may be suffering from idiocy. Get better soon.

I really thought I would get legit answers here.  Too bad

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

I really thought I would get legit answers here.  Too bad

Not from certain people here you won't.

If the moon is a disk 3,000 miles up, we'd see the same face, but it would only appear round when directly overhead. 

If the moon is a sphere 3,000 miles up, we'd see different sides depending how far away it is.  It would also appear smaller at moonrise or moonset.

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

Can you prove its actually bouncing off the moon & not just one of the many outer bands ,signals will bounce  off.?

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 08:13:46 AM

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

Can you prove its actually bouncing off the moon & not just one of the many outer bands ,signals will bounce  off.?

you only get a return when aimed at the Moon and only certain frequencies bounce off the ionosphere.  Plus that is a lot further out than the ionosphere.

I read previous answers and found that some people here have reading problems...

My last question is regarding the face of the moon.  I am not claiming to know an answer I am really here seeking answers.   As the moon sets for 1 observer and rises for another observer.  In the flat earth view, how can both observers see the same face of the moon?  And adding to that,  how come the face of the moon that I see is always pointing at me even as the moon fades out of my view?

There are two direct questions here.

In the flat earth view, how can both observers see the same face of the moon?

1. To observe the same face, the Moon has either be flat or sufficiently far. If it was ball shaped and 3000 miles up (as FE model claims), it would be impossible to see the same face everywhere.

how come the face of the moon that I see is always pointing at me even as the moon fades out of my view?

2. It is possible when the Moon does not rotate with respect to the Earth's surface, that is it is faced with the same side all the time.

Decay, I think I understand your question. The answer is that the moon is so far away you would barely see any difference even on opposite sides of the planet. Instead of imagining the tennis ball hanging from the ceiling of a building, imagine it hanging 1,000 feet in the air. Move 5 feet over and you won't see much of a difference simply because of how far away the ball is.

I can give you a more exact explanation if you want. It's really just about geometry.

I can give you a more exact explanation if you want. It's really just about geometry.

As long as you don't have any equations!  I tried that a couple of times.

Quote from: charles bloomington on December 19, 2015, 11:57:13 AM

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 08:13:46 AM

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

Can you prove its actually bouncing off the moon & not just one of the many outer bands ,signals will bounce  off.?

you only get a return when aimed at the Moon and only certain frequencies bounce off the ionosphere.  Plus that is a lot further out than the ionosphere.

frenat,
I'd like a little more information about bouncing radio signals off the moon. Id like to know if you personally did that and what radio frequencies you used. I've heard of this, and I actually helped designed tunable RF filters that was to be used to bounce radio signals off the moon as a way to communicate if ever there was an emergency and all other forms of communications was knocked out. It kinda seemed far fetched to me at the time, but I was simply doing what the customer wanted. I believe the name of the company that ordered the filters was actually Titan.

Quote from: Poko on December 19, 2015, 11:52:31 PM

I can give you a more exact explanation if you want. It's really just about geometry.

As long as you don't have any equations!  I tried that a couple of times.

If you want the short answer, standing on opposite sides of the planet will only make the moon appear to turn about 1.9 degrees.

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 12:18:05 PM

Quote from: charles bloomington on December 19, 2015, 11:57:13 AM

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 08:13:46 AM

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

Can you prove its actually bouncing off the moon & not just one of the many outer bands ,signals will bounce  off.?

you only get a return when aimed at the Moon and only certain frequencies bounce off the ionosphere.  Plus that is a lot further out than the ionosphere.

frenat,
I'd like a little more information about bouncing radio signals off the moon. Id like to know if you personally did that and what radio frequencies you used. I've heard of this, and I actually helped designed tunable RF filters that was to be used to bounce radio signals off the moon as a way to communicate if ever there was an emergency and all other forms of communications was knocked out. It kinda seemed far fetched to me at the time, but I was simply doing what the customer wanted. I believe the name of the company that ordered the filters was actually Titan.

It was years ago with a HAM radio club that I visited.  I don't remember the exact frequency except that it I think it was in the UHF band.

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 12:18:05 PM

Quote from: charles bloomington on December 19, 2015, 11:57:13 AM

Quote from: frenat on December 19, 2015, 08:13:46 AM

anyone who wants to can prove the Moon is about 250,000 miles away.  you can either use a HAM radio to bounce a signal off of it and measure the time of the return or observe it as the same time as someone else in another location.  You both measure the angles and use geometry to get the result. 

I've done both and gotten about 250,000 miles each time.

Can you prove its actually bouncing off the moon & not just one of the many outer bands ,signals will bounce  off.?

you only get a return when aimed at the Moon and only certain frequencies bounce off the ionosphere.  Plus that is a lot further out than the ionosphere.

frenat,
I'd like a little more information about bouncing radio signals off the moon. Id like to know if you personally did that and what radio frequencies you used. I've heard of this, and I actually helped designed tunable RF filters that was to be used to bounce radio signals off the moon as a way to communicate if ever there was an emergency and all other forms of communications was knocked out. It kinda seemed far fetched to me at the time, but I was simply doing what the customer wanted. I believe the name of the company that ordered the filters was actually Titan.

Look it up and tells us about the links your ead.