Pretending Subquarks actually exist!

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sokarul

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #330 on: July 08, 2020, 06:08:48 AM »
An electrically-charged tachyon would emit Cherenkov radiation in a vacuum, lose energy and speed up. A tachyon with any value of Γ could be produced with negligible energy, eithersingly in multiparticle production or in pairs if needed to conserve momentum. Any tachyon with weak charge, with any coupling to the Z and/or W-bosons, would be pair-produced e.g. at LEP, spoiling its many precision tests of the Standard Model.
Aren't those conditionals? Like, not quite "will" or "can".

Yes. Thats why they are still hypothetical.
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sokarul

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #331 on: July 08, 2020, 06:12:04 AM »

Firstly sudquarks, or preons have NEVER been discovered. To date no discovery of a subquark has ever been made.

Preons or subqurks were just and are just hypothetical and have never been detected by any experiment and remain just an idea that became popular 30 years ago and has since fallen out of favour among those who work in the field of exotic sub atomic particles.

This makes you a despicable liar.

You say that subquarks = preons.

And that preons have never been discovered.


My very first message in this thread put an end to your lying.


https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1998/press-release/

13 October 1998

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has awarded the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics jointly to

Professor Robert B. Laughlin, Stanford University, California, USA,

Professor Horst L. Störmer, Columbia University, New York and Lucent Technologies’ Bell Labs, New Jersey, USA, and

Professor Daniel C. Tsui, Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA.

The three researchers are being awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering that electrons acting together in strong magnetic fields can form new types of “particles”, with charges that are fractions of electron charges.
Preons are said to make up quarks but they have never been found. What you posted was a story about electrons.

Completely different. Like not even remotely close.
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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #332 on: July 08, 2020, 06:18:20 AM »
The author of this thread has stated the following:



Firstly sudquarks, or preons

Preons or subqurks were just and are just hypothetical


He does equate preons with subquarks.


https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1998/press-release/

13 October 1998

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has awarded the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics jointly to

Professor Robert B. Laughlin, Stanford University, California, USA,

Professor Horst L. Störmer, Columbia University, New York and Lucent Technologies’ Bell Labs, New Jersey, USA, and

Professor Daniel C. Tsui, Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA.

The three researchers are being awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering that electrons acting together in strong magnetic fields can form new types of “particles”, with charges that are fractions of electron charges.

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sokarul

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #333 on: July 08, 2020, 06:29:59 AM »
Why would a new state of an electron make up a proton? How does it do this while not in an extremely strong magnetic field?
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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #334 on: July 08, 2020, 06:34:36 AM »
You must address that question to your tag team partner.

The author of this thread has said that preons = subquarks.


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sokarul

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #335 on: July 08, 2020, 06:38:19 AM »
Persons are theorized to be sub components of quarks. This could indeed make them a sub quark. It’s hard to know though since you keep changing your definition of a sub quark.
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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #336 on: July 08, 2020, 10:08:41 AM »
You must address that question to your tag team partner.

The author of this thread has said that preons = subquarks.

Timeisup is confused

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Stash

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #337 on: July 08, 2020, 01:23:16 PM »
His papers prove the existence of tachyons.

But in order to convince even a troll like you, Professor Ehrlich did the sensible thing and said that we have to await the final results from KATRIN.

Right, and until such time, according to Professor Ehrlich, their existence is uncertain.

The "uncertainty" refers to this: the KATRIN experiment.

No, see this is where your constant misinterpretations/misrepresentations are on full display. Try some logic on for size for once:

Professor Ehrlich: States that the existence of tachyons is uncertain at this time
Professor Ehrlich:  Predicts that certainty in whether tachyons exist or not will be definitively determined using data from the KATRIN experiment in the next year. Meaning, it may be definitively determined that tachyons don't exist. Or, that they do.

Professor Ehrlich: Is not saying the existence of tachyons is uncertain at this time, but only in the KATRIN experiment, but everywhere else their existence is certain.

That’s you twisting around and misinterpreting/misrepresenting Professor Ehrlich’s fine research. Quite shameful to do so.

For reference, Dr. Ehelich’s response:

Question 26: So, do tachyons exist?
Answer: It is currently uncertain, but I believe that within a year KATRIN will have enough data to give a definitive answer.

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JackBlack

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #338 on: July 08, 2020, 02:00:16 PM »
This makes you a despicable liar.
You say that subquarks = preons.
And that preons have never been discovered.
My very first message in this thread put an end to your lying.
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1998/press-release/
You mean your very first message was an outright lie, making you the despicable liar.

How many times will you repeat the same lie?

Again, that Nobel prize has nothing at all to do with subquarks.

Your quote even makes that clear. The electrons are combining to produce a composite particle. They are not breaking apart into their components.

Now stop lying, and provide the actual evidence for them.

You must address that question to your tag team partner.
Why?
You are the one trying to equate subquarks to composite particles made up of electrons.
So that question should remain addressed to you.
Why do you continually lie and pretend that the discovery of composite quasiparticles, made by combing electrons, is magically a subquark, when there is no connection at all?
Why do you continually repeat this lie even though it has been refuted countless times?

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #339 on: July 08, 2020, 04:08:54 PM »

The three researchers are being awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering that electrons acting together in strong magnetic fields can form new types of “particles”, with charges that are fractions of electron charges.

Let's go back to here.

Still haven't answered my question when I posed it before.

If these new types of "particles" with charges that are fractions of electrons are quasi-particles, and quasi-particles are sub-quarks/preons, then the following statement would be true.

Electrons create preons.

Do electrons create preons?

« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 08:19:50 AM by NotSoSkeptical »
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

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rabinoz

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #340 on: July 08, 2020, 04:16:46 PM »
You must address that question to your tag team partner.

The author of this thread has said that preons = subquarks.

Timeisup is confused
Are you sure you and sandokhan aren't confused?

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #341 on: July 08, 2020, 09:32:07 PM »
Again, that Nobel prize has nothing at all to do with subquarks.

Cut the crap!

The author of this thread has stated the following:



Firstly sudquarks, or preons

Preons or subqurks were just and are just hypothetical

He does equate preons with subquarks.


https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1998/press-release/

13 October 1998

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has awarded the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics jointly to

Professor Robert B. Laughlin, Stanford University, California, USA,

Professor Horst L. Störmer, Columbia University, New York and Lucent Technologies’ Bell Labs, New Jersey, USA, and

Professor Daniel C. Tsui, Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA.

The three researchers are being awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering that electrons acting together in strong magnetic fields can form new types of “particles”, with charges that are fractions of electron charges.


You got any questions, talk to your tag team partner.

He equates preons with subquarks.

Preons were discovered in 1982.


Professor Ehrlich: Is not saying the existence of tachyons is uncertain at this time, but only in the KATRIN experiment, but everywhere else their existence is certain.

That’s you twisting around and misinterpreting/misrepresenting Professor Ehrlich’s fine research. Quite shameful to do so.


Let's put your word to the test.

Quotes from Dr. Ehrlich's papers:

It is shown that the Mont Blanc burst is consistent with the distinctive signature of that
explanation i.e., an 8 MeV antineutrino line from SN 1987A. It is further shown that a model of core collapse supernovae involving dark matter particles of mass 8 MeV would in fact yield an 8 MeV antineutrino line.

More direct support comes from the spectrum of N ∼ 1000 events recorded by the Kamiokande-II detector on the day of SN 1987A, which appear to show an 8 MeV line atop the detector background. This ¯ν line, if genuine, has been well-hidden for 30 years because it occurs very close to the peak of the background. This fact might ordinarily justify extreme skepticism. In the present case, however, a more positive view is called for based on (a) the very high statistical significance of the result (30σ), (b) the use of a detector background independent of the SN 1987A data using a later K-II data set, and (c) the observation of an excess above the background spectrum whose central energy and width both agree with that of an 8 MeV ¯ν line broadened by 25% resolution. Most importantly, the last observation is in accord with the prior prediction of an 8 MeV ¯ν line based on the Mont Blanc data, and the the dark matter model, itself supported by experimental observations. Lastly, it is noted that the tachyonic interpretation of the Mont Blanc burst fits the author’s earlier unconventional 3 + 3 model of the neutrino mass states.


Six observations consistent with the electron neutrino being a
tachyon with mass: m2 νe = −0.11 ± 0.016eV 2

The data are from areas including CMB fluctuations, gravitational lensing, cosmic ray spectra, neutrino oscillations, and 0ν double beta decay. For each of the six observations it is possible under explicitly stated assumptions to compute a value for m2 νe, and it is found that the six values are remarkably consistent with the above cited νe mass (χ 2 = 2.73). There are no known observations in clear conflict with the claimed result, nor are there predicted phenomena that should occur which are not seen. Three checks are proposed to test the validity of the claim, one of which could be performed using existing data.


Published empirical evidence for the model is summarized, including an interpretation of the mysterious Mont Blanc neutrino burst from SN 1987A as being due to tachyonic neutrinos having m2 = −0.38eV 2.
This possibility requires an 8 MeV antineutrino line from SN 1987A, which a new dark matter model has been found to support. Furthermore, this dark matter model is supported by several data sets: γ−rays from the galactic center, and the Kamiokande-II neutrino data on the day of SN 1987A.
The KATRIN experiment should serve as the unambiguous test of the 3 + 3 model and its tachyonic mass state.


I have just proven you wrong.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 12:15:54 AM by sandokhan »

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sokarul

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #342 on: July 08, 2020, 09:35:08 PM »
And yet you can't explain what electrons have to do with subquarks.
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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #343 on: July 08, 2020, 09:39:15 PM »
If these new types of "particles" with charges that are fractions of electrons are quasi-particles, and quasi-particles are sub-quarks/preons, then the following statement would be true.

Electrons create preons.

Do electrons create preons?


I already answered your question.

The electron, in current mainstream science, has nine components, a substructure of nine preons/subquarks.

That is where the fractional charges come from.

In reality, these preons are the electrons themselves, having a negative charge.

Preons = subquarks.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #344 on: July 08, 2020, 09:49:08 PM »

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Stash

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #345 on: July 08, 2020, 09:54:11 PM »
Again, that Nobel prize has nothing at all to do with subquarks.

STFU you moron!

Nice, well put, and very scientific.

Professor Ehrlich: Is not saying the existence of tachyons is uncertain at this time, but only in the KATRIN experiment, but everywhere else their existence is certain.

That’s you twisting around and misinterpreting/misrepresenting Professor Ehrlich’s fine research. Quite shameful to do so. (This is me talking because Sandy refuses to use proper quotes. Why? Who knows, it's creepy at best)


Ok, Let's put your to the test.

Quotes from Dr. Ehrlich's papers:
The KATRIN experiment should serve as the unambiguous test of the 3 + 3 model and its tachyonic mass state.

Ok, let's put them to the test, from the paper you cited, in Dr Ehrlich's own words:

"The KATRIN experiment [43] should prove or refute the existence of a tachyonic mass."

Hasn't yet. Should prove or refute. How is that simple language lost on you?


I have just proven you wrong.

Actually, quite the contrary. I have just proven you wrong with Dr Ehrlich's own words.

Again, for reference, Dr. Ehelich’s response:

Question 26: So, do tachyons exist?
Answer: It is currently uncertain, but I believe that within a year KATRIN will have enough data to give a definitive answer.

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #346 on: July 08, 2020, 10:00:24 PM »
Your quote even makes that clear. The electrons are combining to produce a composite particle. They are not breaking apart into their components.

Do you have medical insurance?

Then, by all means, use it to visit a psychiatrist.


https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1998/press-release/

13 October 1998

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has awarded the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics jointly to

Professor Robert B. Laughlin, Stanford University, California, USA,

Professor Horst L. Störmer, Columbia University, New York and Lucent Technologies’ Bell Labs, New Jersey, USA, and

Professor Daniel C. Tsui, Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA.

The three researchers are being awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering that electrons acting together in strong magnetic fields can form new types of “particles”, with charges that are fractions of electron charges.


Preon-quarkel structure of the electrons:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=quarter-electrons-may-enable-quantum-computer


Every science student is taught that the indivisible unit of charge is that of the electron. But 2 years ago, scientists found that charge sometimes shatters into "quasi-particles" that have one-third the fundamental charge. And in this week's issue of Nature, researchers announce they have spotted one-fifth-charge quasi-particles--a decisive finding suggesting that its time to change any physics textbooks still claiming that electron charge is indivisible.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130621182913/http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/1999/05/19-01.html


Why?

I'll answer your question if you can answer this: why is jackblack allowed to troll the upper forums?

I understand: all of the admin and the mods are actually RE. Why does not matter that this forum is going down the drain (just read the stats)?


"The KATRIN experiment [43] should prove or refute the existence of a tachyonic mass."

Yes.

Professor Ehrlich wants to be able to convince even trolls like you.

That is why he is waiting for the final results.

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Stash

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #347 on: July 08, 2020, 10:13:03 PM »
Your quote even makes that clear. The electrons are combining to produce a composite particle. They are not breaking apart into their components.

Do you have medical insurance?

Then, by all means, use it to visit a psychiatrist.

How decidedly professional and scientific of you. As you continue to cascade down your weak arguments you attempt to amp up your insults. Funny how that works.

"The KATRIN experiment [43] should prove or refute the existence of a tachyonic mass."

Actually, here's my quote:

Ok, let's put them to the test, from the paper you cited, in Dr Ehrlich's own words:

"The KATRIN experiment [43] should prove or refute the existence of a tachyonic mass."

Hasn't yet. Should prove or refute. How is that simple language lost on you?

Yes.

Professor Ehrlich wants to be able to convince even trolls like you.

That is why he is waiting for the final results.

Do you understand you have zero logic applied here?

A) Professor Ehrlich doesn't have to convince even trolls like me.
B) When one is waiting for final results that means results are not in yet
C) How is the simplest of logic lost on you and how do you feel you can re-interpret Dr. Ehrlich's current stance:

Question 26: So, do tachyons exist?
Answer: It is currently uncertain, but I believe that within a year KATRIN will have enough data to give a definitive answer.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #348 on: July 08, 2020, 10:27:42 PM »
Anyone remember cold fusion?

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rvlvr

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #349 on: July 08, 2020, 11:57:52 PM »
Or Coldplay?

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #350 on: July 08, 2020, 11:59:37 PM »
How decidedly professional and scientific of you.

Your tag team partner definitely needs to see a psychiatrist.

Preon-quarkel structure of the electrons:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=quarter-electrons-may-enable-quantum-computer


Every science student is taught that the indivisible unit of charge is that of the electron. But 2 years ago, scientists found that charge sometimes shatters into "quasi-particles" that have one-third the fundamental charge. And in this week's issue of Nature, researchers announce they have spotted one-fifth-charge quasi-particles--a decisive finding suggesting that its time to change any physics textbooks still claiming that electron charge is indivisible.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130621182913/http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/1999/05/19-01.html


The charge of the electrons has been shattered into fractional charges.


What does your mentor say? No, a bunch of electrons got together, that is where the fractional charge comes from.


Hasn't yet.

Right.

Now, what relativistic particles can provide faster than light speeds?

As proven by the Maxwell equations, which are invariant under Galilean transformations, a fact published by the IOP, and by quantum entanglement.

You think tachyons are going to wait for KATRIN to be discovered? Not a chance.

They already exist.

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Stash

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #351 on: July 09, 2020, 02:10:56 AM »
You think tachyons are going to wait for KATRIN to be discovered? Not a chance.

They already exist.

Of course not. But your statement makes you a hack. Not a scientist.

The leading theorist in tachyon theory has stated that the existence of such is uncertain.
Where you get off saying he is wrong only means you are a hack and have no clue about science or the scientific method.

Are you seriously claiming you know more about tachyon theory than Dr Ehrlich?

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #352 on: July 09, 2020, 02:11:52 AM »
More references on preons/particles with fractional charges.

http://sites.science.oregonstate.edu/~ostroveo/COURSES/ph673/Notes/FractionalCharge.pdf


The fractional QHE describes the plateaus where 4is a fraction, the most prominent
occuring at v = 1/3
Tsui, Stormer and Gossard, 1982

Understanding the FQHE requires a radically-new theory. You end up with
fractionally-charged quasiparticles which have been observed!

Quasiparticles have charge v 1/3!!


The fractional charge of the quasiparticle has been checked directly by several clever
experiments.
Goldman and Su, 1995; Saminadayar et al, 1997; de Picciotto et al, 1997


Conclusions
1. Fractional charge is well understood theoretically.
2. Fractional charge exists in nature.
3. Fractional charge may end up explaining new physics in 2+1 dimensions.

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JackBlack

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #353 on: July 09, 2020, 02:12:53 AM »
Again, that Nobel prize has nothing at all to do with subquarks.
Cut the crap!
No. You cut the crap.

Appealing to preons and subquarks being the same thing doesn't help you, as that Nobel prize dealt with neither.
Again, electrons combining to form a larger, composite quasiparticle is in no way evidence of subquarks or preons.

Now when will you stop with the lies and admit that fact?

The only thing you have proven is that you don't give a damn about the truth at all.

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #354 on: July 09, 2020, 02:17:51 AM »
https://physicsworld.com/a/fractional-charge-carriers-discovered

Last month, two groups of physicists revealed the first direct evidence that an electric current can be carried by quasiparticles with fractional charge.


Appealing to preons and subquarks being the same thing doesn't help you, as that Nobel prize dealt with neither.
Again, electrons combining to form a larger, composite quasiparticle is in no way evidence of subquarks or preons.


You need a medical checkup.

The electrons themselves are divided into particles with fractional charges!

Have you lost your mind to claim that now electrons form larger particles?

This is beyond ridiculous: you certainly need medical help.


Preon-quarkel structure of the electrons:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=quarter-electrons-may-enable-quantum-computer


Every science student is taught that the indivisible unit of charge is that of the electron. But 2 years ago, scientists found that charge sometimes shatters into "quasi-particles" that have one-third the fundamental charge. And in this week's issue of Nature, researchers announce they have spotted one-fifth-charge quasi-particles--a decisive finding suggesting that its time to change any physics textbooks still claiming that electron charge is indivisible.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130621182913/http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/1999/05/19-01.html


The charge of the electrons has been shattered into fractional charges.


Your tag team partner made this statement:



Firstly sudquarks, or preons

Preons or subqurks were just and are just hypothetical


He does equate preons with subquarks.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #355 on: July 09, 2020, 02:26:16 AM »

Cut the crap!

No. You cut the crap.

Stop LYING!
You should both start cutting yourself to prove your dedication to your beliefs.  ::)

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #356 on: July 09, 2020, 02:41:07 AM »
Pure science.

https://phys.org/news/2014-12-electrons-evidence-exotic-behaviors.html

How electrons split: New evidence of exotic behaviors

https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys3172

Our results establish the existence of fractional quasiparticles in the high-energy spectrum of a quasi-two-dimensional antiferromagnet.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electron-splits-into-quasiparticles/

In 1996, physicists split an electron into a holon and spinon. Now, van den Brink and his colleagues have broken an electron into an orbiton and a spinon, as reported in Nature today.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15721195-400-splitting-the-electron/

But that pillar seems to be crumbling. Scientists have pushed open a window onto an unexpected world of quantum strangeness in which the electron’s “indivisible” unit of charge can be carved up to make particles carrying one-third or one-fifth of a unit, or even fractions far smaller.


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Bullwinkle

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #357 on: July 09, 2020, 03:08:56 AM »

Our results establish . . .


OUR results?
Please elucidate . . .

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sandokhan

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #358 on: July 09, 2020, 03:29:17 AM »
It's a quote from the article.

Mainstream science is beginning to understand that gravity must involve quantum entanglement, superluminal speeds, instant action-at-a-distance.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Pretending Subquarks actually exist!
« Reply #359 on: July 09, 2020, 03:34:26 AM »
So you personally have no clue, right?