Poll

Does this make sense to you?

Yes
6 (26.1%)
No
17 (73.9%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: June 02, 2006, 04:16:06 AM

A problem with your "gravity"

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Doubter

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A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2006, 07:07:47 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Doubter"
But if gravtational attraction is:
gravity = (mass1 * mass2  * k) / distance2

And Mass1 = 0 then Gravity = 0


Valid argument.  However, it turns out that that is not gravitational attraction.  Not in GR, anyway.

 I tried to find the "Proper Formula", I'm afraid I don't know tensor math.

What's worse is the site I found tried to explain my time paradox, after do ing a lot of graghing and math it says "What this paradox illustrates is that in Special Relativity simultaneity is relative." http://www.friesian.com/separat.htm  So even "Now" has no meaning .

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Apollo

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A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2006, 11:57:19 PM »
Quote from: "6strings"
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My point is, if there is no gravity, when something is thrown with the same acceleration as the earth it would hover in mid air. Why does it not float, surely something is pulling it down?

That point is garbage and demonstrates nothing but a lack of basic understanding of mechanics.  Once you throw the thing in the air, it is no longer accelerating (because no force is being applied to it), but traveling at a constant velocity, the earth continues to accelerate upwards, eventually catching up with the object.


Looks as if you have changed your tune since last I spoke with you. I salute you!
A scientist came to god and said “Behold our discoveries; we can summon man from dust as you did. It's Nothing more then a parlor trick”
God looked down and said “show me”
The scientist took up a handful of earth
and God said “get your own dirt”

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Waskey

A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2006, 04:38:04 AM »
Parabolic trajectories. I don't know whether it's been discussed yet, but I'm thinking that's the greatest hole.
Sorry but I think your understanding of GR is a bit off. Show me a tensor that works for you gravity, them maybe I'll be less skeptical.

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Waskey

A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2006, 05:14:10 AM »
Scrub my last. Just realised it isn't a valid arguement.

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Waskey

A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2006, 05:45:38 AM »
It is an observed FACT that things in the sky move, such as the moons of Jupiter. How do you explain those motions without the attractive gravity model?

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Waskey

A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2006, 08:25:34 AM »
And how do you explain visible satellites?

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Unimportant

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A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2006, 10:31:14 AM »
Quote from: "Waskey"
And how do you explain visible satellites?

They don't exist; what you see aren't satellites.

As for how things move in the sky, that's generally considered magic.

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Erasmus

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A problem with your "gravity"
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2006, 12:03:53 PM »
Quote from: "Doubter"
I tried to find the "Proper Formula", I'm afraid I don't know tensor math.


The formula looks really simple, but, as you may have discovered, isn't.  "Gab = -8πTab" essentially relates local "material" quantities about the universe -- momentum, energy, and rotation (Tab) -- with "geometric" quantities -- curvature (Gab).

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What's worse is the site I found tried to explain my time paradox, after do ing a lot of graghing and math it says "What this paradox illustrates is that in Special Relativity simultaneity is relative." http://www.friesian.com/separat.htm  So even "Now" has no meaning .


This site seems pretty cryptic.  I think I posted a list of recommended reading -- it continues to be recommended.  I've just started "An introduction to Einstein's Relativity" by Ray D'Inverno, and it's very good and very comprehensive.  Better than the other stuff I've recommended so far.

On "now": yes, simultaneity is relative.  Things that appear to happen at the same time to some observers happen at different times to other observers.  I'll try to explain this borrowing a figure from the aforementioned reference (p. 23).



The thick lines are the word lines of two observers, A and B.  They each observe two events P and Q.  As A measures things, P and Q happen the same distance away along a line.  A has determined this using the following method: at some point (M) he sent out a flash of light (the thin solid lines) that illuminated P and Q and bounced back, the reflection being received at the same time (N).  He knows that light travels at speed c, and he has a clock, so he knows that the events occurred halfway between M and N, at O.

Suppose that observer B flies past A at some speed, meeting A briefly at O.  Suppose also that B sends out two flashes of light (the thin dashed lines) -- one at R and one at S -- that illuminate Q and P and whose reflections are received back at U and V.  Obviously the light rays emitted by B must be parallel to those emitted by A, since the speed of light is constant.

But now B, using the same method for determining when the events occured as A did, concludes that they happened at different times -- I've marked them as "t(B,P)" and "t(B,Q)"; they are just the midpoints of RU and SV, respectively.  Clearly not simultaneous.

You might say, "Well, it just looks like P and Q happened at different times, but they didn't really happen that way."  For B, however, they really did happen that way.  If, for example, P and Q were two bombs going off, when they really happened is pretty important, right?  But the effects of those explosions can't travel faster than light, so the blasts can't affect B at the same time either.

The whole point of relativity is that we can't have "absolute" knowledge about the universe.  We only have what we measure, and our measurements have certain limitations.  To the degree that B can observe P and Q, they really did happen at different times.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?