Murder of George Floyd

You can't really expect the protestors to be the best marketers. The George Floyd protests came about as a pretty sudden reaction to a current event. Namely, George Floyd's murder caught on camera and shared with the whole world. They know what they mean when they are chanting to defund the police. And anyone who is willing to take a second to look into it can figure it out pretty easily. The unfortunate thing is that it's really easy for talking heads on TV to spin it however they want because the 3-word refrain leaves the phrase wide open to interpretation. And Tucker Carlson is having a field day doing exactly that, because it is what he was born to do.

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

I thought this was really interesting, encapsulating racism in America in just under 18 minutes. Well worth the time.

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

Maybe you could help them come up with something catchy that rolls off the tongue and works well for chanting during a protest.

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

And even when people are told it's not what their imagination tells them it means, they still choose their imaginary narrative.

Quote from: markjo on June 16, 2020, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

Maybe you could help them come up with something catchy that rolls off the tongue and works well for chanting during a protest.

Thoughts good.  Slogans bad.  Thoughts good.  Slogans bad. 

Quote from: boydster on June 16, 2020, 07:08:19 PM

Quote from: markjo on June 16, 2020, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

Maybe you could help them come up with something catchy that rolls off the tongue and works well for chanting during a protest.

Thoughts good.  Slogans bad.  Thoughts good.  Slogans bad.

So initial thoughts. The media will have a field day with your missing apostrophes, coupled with the fact that when the "Defund the Police" messaging is missing, your version becomes entirely meaningless. Add to that the fact that markjos on forums throughout the world will point out how terrible it is. But it's definitely a good first swing. See if you can capture the whole "We should really consider allocating the money we spend on our police forces differently, so as not to encourage further militarization and instead promote an atmosphere that is less adversarial while also at the same time funding programs that will help deal with situations where maybe the police aren't properly equipped for the job, it's just we've spent so long shoveling those tasks over to the police that we don't have a better system to turn back to now" messaging.

Actually, now that I see it written out, that chant I just posted might be the one to go with. It's catchy, concise, and I dare say it will connect with a broad spectrum of people - some of whom might be finding themselves in very tense situations with very militarized police forces right now.

Quote from: markjo on June 16, 2020, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

Maybe you could help them come up with something catchy that rolls off the tongue and works well for chanting during a protest.

Wadda we want .... SLOGANS,   When do we want them...  NOW

Repeat forever.

Instead of defunding the police, why not rethink what the role of the police should be in modern society and then adjust the funding accordingly?

As I have written on numerous occasions, the issues with crime concern:

A. What is criminalized;
2. Elimination of walking beats.

Also present in this case is the issue these two idiots (the cop and George Floyd) knew each other and had a less than friendly relationship.

Quote from: markjo on June 16, 2020, 07:20:58 PM

Quote from: boydster on June 16, 2020, 07:08:19 PM

Quote from: markjo on June 16, 2020, 07:05:45 PM

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Then perhaps they should use a more accurately descriptive term to avoid confusion.

Maybe you could help them come up with something catchy that rolls off the tongue and works well for chanting during a protest.

Thoughts good.  Slogans bad.  Thoughts good.  Slogans bad.

So initial thoughts. The media will have a field day with your missing apostrophes, coupled with the fact that when the "Defund the Police" messaging is missing, your version becomes entirely meaningless. Add to that the fact that markjos on forums throughout the world will point out how terrible it is. But it's definitely a good first swing. See if you can capture the whole "We should really consider allocating the money we spend on our police forces differently, so as not to encourage further militarization and instead promote an atmosphere that is less adversarial while also at the same time funding programs that will help deal with situations where maybe the police aren't properly equipped for the job, it's just we've spent so long shoveling those tasks over to the police that we don't have a better system to turn back to now" messaging.

"Less Police officers, More Peace officers."

Imagine if in America.... The man's body would be riddled with bullets

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/10/20/keanon-lowe-oregon-coach-gun-shooter-video-angel-granados-diaz/4044481002/

The US is a lovely place. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.

Actually, now that I see it written out, that chant I just posted might be the one to go with. It's catchy, concise, and I dare say it will connect with a broad spectrum of people - some of whom might be finding themselves in very tense situations with very militarized police forces right now.

How about "Police Different"?

Quote from: Shifter on June 15, 2020, 03:53:04 PM

Imagine if in America.... The man's body would be riddled with bullets

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/10/20/keanon-lowe-oregon-coach-gun-shooter-video-angel-granados-diaz/4044481002/

The US is a lovely place. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.

Yeah we know. You fit right in with all the red necked mugs.

Wat?

While we are arguing over slogans, "no justice, no peace" is the one that I think is the most powerful.

The was used from day one in Minnesota.

The was used from day one in Minnesota.

It's been used pretty much everywhere ince the mid 1980s.

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Really? You mean there is another interpretation for "defunding police"?

Detroit had their police service defunded back in 2013. Would you like to hear the statistics of what took place afterwards in Detroit?

I'll just say, crime skyrocketed. This is because the numbers of police were halved, patrols were halved, arrests were halved, years of policing experience on the road was halved......the result being many more innocent people were victims of crime and less crimes being solved.

You have to also remember, a core function of police is first response to emergency situations - that response was halved also.

If you want to fix these police departments, you boost funding to Police, to boost their training, numbers, etc. Not the other way around.

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Really? You mean there is another interpretation for "defunding police"?

Detroit had their police service defunded back in 2013. Would you like to hear the statistics of what took place afterwards in Detroit?

I'll just say, crime skyrocketed. This is because the numbers of police were halved, patrols were halved, arrests were halved, years of policing experience on the road was halved......the result being many more innocent people were victims of crime and less crimes being solved.

You have to also remember, a core function of police is first response to emergency situations - that response was halved also.

If you want to fix these police departments, you boost funding to Police, to boost their training, numbers, etc. Not the other way around.

"Defund the Police", in most interpretations and implementations is twofold: Take some money from the Police budget and redirect it toward social services. For instance, in my city police officers will be replaced with trained, unarmed professionals to respond to calls for help on noncriminal matters involving mental health, the homeless, school discipline and neighbor disputes. And the Police Dept. is all for it. It limits their contact with the community for cases they shouldn't be handling, more suitable/trained individuals handle them instead, and they can focus on crime.

As for Detroit, in 2013, the municipality went bankrupt. It wasn't a "Defund the Police" type of thing, it was a "Defund Everything" type of thing because they had no money. So when you defund everything it means you can't backfill any services, period. The Detroit situation is apples and oranges when compared to the more progressive and deliberate "Defund the Police" strategy I referenced. It's not even comparable.

If you give them more money they will spend it on military surplus.

Really? You mean there is another interpretation for "defunding police"?

Uh, you were just explained the other interpretation.

If you want to fix these police departments, you boost funding to Police, to boost their training, numbers, etc. Not the other way around.

Yeah dude, like the American police is not already ridiculously expensive compared to most countries, dumping even more money on the issue will definitely fix it! THEY GOTTA HAVE MORE TANKS!

Quote from: Smoke machine police on June 17, 2020, 02:55:15 PM

Quote from: Shifter on June 16, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

^^Again, that's not what defunding the police means

Really? You mean there is another interpretation for "defunding police"?

Detroit had their police service defunded back in 2013. Would you like to hear the statistics of what took place afterwards in Detroit?

I'll just say, crime skyrocketed. This is because the numbers of police were halved, patrols were halved, arrests were halved, years of policing experience on the road was halved......the result being many more innocent people were victims of crime and less crimes being solved.

You have to also remember, a core function of police is first response to emergency situations - that response was halved also.

If you want to fix these police departments, you boost funding to Police, to boost their training, numbers, etc. Not the other way around.

"Defund the Police", in most interpretations and implementations is twofold: Take some money from the Police budget and redirect it toward social services. For instance, in my city police officers will be replaced with trained, unarmed professionals to respond to calls for help on noncriminal matters involving mental health, the homeless, school discipline and neighbor disputes. And the Police Dept. is all for it. It limits their contact with the community for cases they shouldn't be handling, more suitable/trained individuals handle them instead, and they can focus on crime.

As for Detroit, in 2013, the municipality went bankrupt. It wasn't a "Defund the Police" type of thing, it was a "Defund Everything" type of thing because they had no money. So when you defund everything it means you can't backfill any services, period. The Detroit situation is apples and oranges when compared to the more progressive and deliberate "Defund the Police" strategy I referenced. It's not even comparable.

Hopefully the avid Fox news fans reading that can stop parroting the rubbish that defund the police is about getting rid of police.

If I were a policeman in America I'd be cheering for the defund the police movement too.

https://www.ktsm.com/news/u-s-world/scotland-votes-to-halt-exports-of-tear-gas-rubber-bullets-to-us/

The Scottish Parliament voted Thursday in favor of immediately suspending the export of tear gas, rubber bullets and riot gear to the United States amid ongoing Black Lives Matter protests.

The vote came after George Floyd died in Minneapolis on May 25 while in police custody, sparking worldwide protests against racism and police violence.

The motion, passed by 52-0 votes with 11 abstentions, says the parliament “stands in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement and considers that the UK government must immediately suspend all export licences for tear gas, rubber bullets and riot gear to the US,” reported The Independent, a British publication.

“To witness not only the murder but what can easily be described as a lynching of a black man at the hands of a police officer is an incident that has shocked the world,” said a letter signed last week by 166 MPs from the Labour party.

According to the Independent, Scottish government export records show the U.S. is one of the largest buyers of UK arms in the world, with approximately $7.53 billion worth of munitions sold to the U.S. since 2010, including over $1 billion in firearms, $22 million in less-lethal rounds such as rubber bullets and tear gas, and more than $2.5 million in riot shields.

Think of all the money we will save!

Defund the IRS

Defund the IRS

Agreed. Defund and then some.

Defund the 1%.

Overthrow King George III. 

Stash, that all sounds great until you think about it.

Police get involved with mentally ill people because sometimes they have to use force to have a mentally ill person seen by a doctor and assessed. Police officers are vested with powers under legislation to help other professions.

Homelessness and school discipline are already not police issues. As for neighbour disputes, what kind of minor neighbour disputes will these professionals be mediating - noise complaints?

How will a non-police officer enforce laws on excessive noise or trespassing, or lewd conduct, or a myriad of other offences?

Everything you have said will wind up being investigated by police anyway.

Who will be enforcing traffic laws and investigating traffic accidents if police will only be trying to reduce crime?

These are all traditional police jobs for a reason. Defunding the police is defunding the police, and it's unworkable.

Less police will mean the police employed will be overworked and susceptible to stress leave, leaving less even police. Meanwhile, community expectations from their police will be met even less, leading to more distrust and more disrespect towards police.

They need more funding, not less.