How was Flat Earth created?

Quote from: jroa on January 11, 2014, 12:03:14 AM

  How am I shifting the goal post?

Equating a banana and an automobile with the earth and other planets is shifting the goal posts.

You've specifically chosen two massively dissimilar objects to make your point about two other objects that are virtually the same, or at the least very similar.

Yes, I did chose two dissimilar objects to make my point.  The point was that the Earth and planets are dissimilar. 

Someone told you when you were young that the Earth was the same as the planets, and you just went with it to this day.  Let me ask you a question.  In what ways is the Earth like the other planets?  No other planet is mostly covered in liquid water.  No other planet has an atmosphere comprised of the same type and ratio of gases that Earth has.  No other planet is made out of the same stuff that Earth is made out of.  Yet, we are supposed to just assume that Earth is just another planet and is not special? 

Quote from: jroa on January 11, 2014, 12:03:14 AM

Could I remind you that this is a grown up forum?  The nonsense forums are downstairs.

If you had read my post clearly, you would have realized that I was parodying FE behavior, and not actually saying the "nonsense" part. You could call me insulting, but please get your facts right. My post, was, in no way, nonsense.

I did read you post and found that it lacked any amount of content that was appropriate for a serious discussion forum.  In other words, it was a low content post, which belongs in the social fora. 

Yes, I did chose two dissimilar objects to make my point.  The point was that the Earth and planets are dissimilar. 

Someone told you when you were young that the Earth was the same as the planets, and you just went with it to this day.  Let me ask you a question.  In what ways is the Earth like the other planets?  No other planet is mostly covered in liquid water.  No other planet has an atmosphere comprised of the same type and ratio of gases that Earth has.  No other planet is made out of the same stuff that Earth is made out of.  Yet, we are supposed to just assume that Earth is just another planet and is not special? 

What evidence do you have that supports your contention about the earth and all the other?  You said "because planets are nothing like the Earth".

Th earth and the other planets are all spherical; they all spin on their own axis; they all revolve around the sun in fixed orbits; they all exhibit surface temperatures consistent with their distance from the sun;  they all contain the same core elements; they all have an envelope of gaseous material; most have their own moon(s); and Mars could support human life, as could Kepler-78b.

Astronomers using NASA data have calculated for the first time that in our galaxy alone, there are at least 8.8 billion stars with Earth-size planets in the habitable temperature zone.

And on what evidence do you base your claim that "no other planet is made out of the same stuff that Earth"?
 

ausGeoff, I like how there are all of those question marks in your picture.  There should be a lot more, if we are honest with each other.  Scientists do not really know anything about the planets.  They don't know what the core is made out of or any of that other stuff because they have never been there to find out.  Yes, they sent a rover to Mars and it has picked up some surface rocks and dirt, but that is all.  Anything else they tell you about the other planets is pure speculation.

I did read you post and found that it lacked any amount of content that was appropriate for a serious discussion forum.  In other words, it was a low content post, which belongs in the social fora.

My apologies. I assumed that you were talking the actual forum section "Complete Nonsense".

However, my post was not low content. It was mainly a correction of another person's terminology with an example of how a fictional person might react.

ausGeoff, I like how there are all of those question marks in your picture.  There should be a lot more, if we are honest with each other.  Scientists do not really know anything about the planets.  They don't know what the core is made out of or any of that other stuff because they have never been there to find out.  Yes, they sent a rover to Mars and it has picked up some surface rocks and dirt, but that is all.  Anything else they tell you about the other planets is pure speculation.

Well, my diagram lists 24 knowns, and only three unconfirmeds (?) so from a scientific perspective the diagrams are pretty conclusive.  Bear in mind too that all scientific theories start of with hypotheses which are then rigorously assessed for their validity before they become theories.  This assessment involves literally thousands of research man-hours by scientists all over the world.

What science tells us about the planets can't be dismissed as "pure speculation".  Speculation is the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.   Scientists use what could be termed extrapolation.  There's various ways to check the composition of planets; electromagnetic radiation; mass and volume; orbital path; heat emission; spectrography; magnetic properties; density etc.  And yes—a degree of speculation.

But don't dismiss speculation too readily.  That's precisely how Pluto was actually discovered 15 years before it was first seen with a telescope.  And that speculation turned out to be 100% correct—even to its mass and its orbit.

Another major clue to a planet's composition are the asteroids orbiting it, which were flung off the molten/gaseous core as it underwent accretion (the growth of a massive object by gravitationally attracting more matter).  These asteroids and dust are obviously far easier to analyse.

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 10, 2014, 11:24:27 PM

A strawberry looks nothing like a banana yet they are both fruit are they not?
A square looks nothing like a circle yet they are both shapes are they not?

Yes, there are many things that are similar, but not the same.  How does this have anything to do with this conversation?

About the same thing as comparing a banana to an automobile.
I mean strawberries are red, have seeds on the outside and small and grow on small little plants near the ground.
Bananas are yellow, have a skin you peel and grow on trees in the tropic.
They are nothing alike, yet are both considered fruit.

BJ1234, Gold is a precious metal.  So is Silver.  Can we conclude that Gold and Silver must share the same properties because they are both precious metals?  No.  The do in fact have different properties although they both can be grouped into a similar category. 

Once again, what does this have to do with the shape of the Earth or the conversation? 

Well, my diagram lists 24 knowns, and only three unconfirmeds (?) so from a scientific perspective the diagrams are pretty conclusive. 

You seem to have a problem with counting.  I counted 6 question marks, but it is also not specified how many unknown facts they list for every question mark. 

BJ1234, Gold is a precious metal.  So is Silver.  Can we conclude that Gold and Silver must share the same properties because they are both precious metals?  No.  The do in fact have different properties although they both can be grouped into a similar category. 

Once again, what does this have to do with the shape of the Earth or the conversation?

That right there is the point.  Different properties yet grouped into a similar category.

Your argument that earth has life, therefore isn't a planet. Is a fallacious logical step.

BJ1234, let's try this.  What can you tell me that would convince me that the Earth should be considered just another planet? 

BJ1234, let's try this.  What can you tell me that would convince me that the Earth should be considered just another planet?

Obviously nothing.  Because I know you have looked at all the facts and have dismissed them.

However, saying that the earth is special because it has life on it, therefore it is not a planet is fallacious reasoning.  The definition of planet does not include any provisions for having life or not.

You are probably one of the moon shrimp people, and that is ok if you are.  The Earth is special.  Can you show me any proof that it is not?

You are probably one of the moon shrimp people, and that is ok if you are.  The Earth is special.  Can you show me any proof that it is not?

It is special.  We live here.  It is the only place with known life.  It doesn't mean it is not a planet though. 

Not sure what you mean by moon shrimp people though

Quote from: jroa on January 11, 2014, 09:21:46 AM

You are probably one of the moon shrimp people, and that is ok if you are.  The Earth is special.  Can you show me any proof that it is not?

It is special.  We live here.  It is the only place with known life.  It doesn't mean it is not a planet though. 

Not sure what you mean by moon shrimp people though

Just FWIW. Moon shrimp is another "FE Theory".:
The moon does not shine because it reflects light from the sun. It is self-illuminated by Moon Shrimp which cause the  illumination. The phases of the moon are caused by migrations of the Moon Shrimp crossing and re-crossing the surface of the moon.

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 11, 2014, 09:30:12 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 11, 2014, 09:21:46 AM

You are probably one of the moon shrimp people, and that is ok if you are.  The Earth is special.  Can you show me any proof that it is not?

It is special.  We live here.  It is the only place with known life.  It doesn't mean it is not a planet though. 

Not sure what you mean by moon shrimp people though

Just FWIW. Moon shrimp is another "FE Theory".:
The moon does not shine because it reflects light from the sun. It is self-illuminated by Moon Shrimp which cause the  illumination. The phases of the moon are caused by migrations of the Moon Shrimp crossing and re-crossing the surface of the moon.

Really? 
Don't want to derail the topic further than it already has been so I won't ask anything further.

You are probably one of the moon shrimp people, and that is ok if you are.  The Earth is special.  Can you show me any proof that it is not?

Can you show me any proof that the earth is flat because it is special ? Can you show me any proof that the earth is not a planet because it is special ?

The Earth is special.

Can you please define more precisely what you mean by "special" as far as our planet is concerned.  Do you mean that it's absolutely dissimilar to all the other known planets?  Or that its composition and/or physics are totally different to the rest of our entire universe?

BJ1234, Gold is a precious metal.  So is Silver.  Can we conclude that Gold and Silver must share the same properties because they are both precious metals?  No.  The do in fact have different properties although they both can be grouped into a similar category. 

Once again a poor analogy.
Silver and Gold are precious metals.  The share many properties.  These properties that they share classify them as precious metals.
1)The are metal
2)They are precious

Your argument is similar to saying silver isn't a precious metal because it is white.
However, the color of the metal is not defined by the definition of precious metal.

Now what makes the earth special?

1)It has life
2)It contains liquid water
3)Has an oxygen rich atmosphere(atmoplane for you FEers)
4)I am sure plenty of other things, but you should get the point.

None of these are mutually exclusive to being a planet.  Therefore, saying the earth is special does not make it not a planet.

ausGeoff, I like how there are all of those question marks in your picture.  There should be a lot more, if we are honest with each other.  Scientists do not really know anything about the planets.  They don't know what the core is made out of or any of that other stuff because they have never been there to find out.  Yes, they sent a rover to Mars and it has picked up some surface rocks and dirt, but that is all.  Anything else they tell you about the other planets is pure speculation.

Says the one who thinks the earth is flat. Talk about pure speculation.

BJ1234, Gold is a precious metal.  So is Silver.  Can we conclude that Gold and Silver must share the same properties because they are both precious metals?  No.  The do in fact have different properties although they both can be grouped into a similar category. 

Once again, what does this have to do with the shape of the Earth or the conversation?

Ok, now compare a strawberry that has been dropped on the dusty ground and another clean strawberry that was just washed. Same shape, size, composition, and same properties. Just one is a little dirty and the other is clean. That is what it is like to compare Earth to other planets. Not like comparing Gold to Silver.

RET scientists with their endless resources can not even tell you how anything began.  They can only give you their best guess.  Yet, we are expected to know all of the answers.   

No your not expected to know all the answers.. what we expect is at least ONE answer that can be backed up by evidence.

FEers, offer nothing except religious nonsense, and those of you that are not religious, well you have no excuse.

We have 400 years of science to back up our claims, photos, measurements, accurate predictions, reason, logic and common sense on our side.....

You (FEers).. well you make stuff up on the run to fit your weird claims.. you offer the bible to back up your ideas... and some of you just grab random words, and string them together hoping that might mean something.

One thing is for sure - none of you ever answer anything. ever.

So how about starting now?

And, why hasnt any of you published any papers? or had anything peer reviewed? That's how theories are born.. why are you in the game?

The evidence is that there is no reason to assume that the Earth is the same shape as planets because planets are nothing like the Earth. 

And yes, fairies could exist too.   While it would be impossible to prove that fairies do not exist, we all accept as fact that they do not until it is proven otherwise.  There has never been a shred of evidence that there is life anywhere in the universe other than on Earth.  So, yes, the Earth is special and there is no reason to just assume that the Earth should be like a planet in any sense.

What evidence?

Quote from: jroa on January 10, 2014, 11:08:36 PM

If you had made the statement, "A banana is like an automobile and therefore, both have the same shape," would reason not tell me that the statement is false without having to look for evidence?

Except that you didn't say a banana was like an automobile.

And the evidence for this is that one needs to observe both these objects.  Can you tell me if bladderwrack and karkalla are one and the same thing purely by using reasoning and/or common sense?  I thought not; reason alone can't tell you.

  Incidentally, you've probably seen this thing (or things) yourself.

Anyway, you said the earth was unlike the other planets.  Shifting the goal posts is a weak argument.

Haha - its always a good day when you learn something new... bladderwrack lol

Given that no one here can collectively agree on the current model of a flat earth, maybe you could all put your heads together and work on that rather than how it was created?

How it all came about will probably never be known by our primitive minds, as in simply appearing.

I believe you were asked for theories, not concrete answers. Probably never been known - that's very defeatist for one with as enquiring mind as you isn't it?

Just as the cells that make the sperm that swim through other cells to penetrate a cell containing cells that contain cells which produce an organism made up of all those cells.

Are you saying this is unknown? If so, how come you just described it? This is all sorts of 'known'!

We are just a growing egg and we as cells are dying to be replaced just like the cells of our own bodies do.

I will literally give you £500 if you can explain what this sentence means

Given that no one here can collectively agree on the current model of a flat earth, maybe you could all put your heads together and work on that rather than how it was created?

I agree.  It would be a meaningful exercise, and worth a bit of time and effort, for a few of the flat earthers to get their heads together and work out at least some preliminary model(s) of what a flat earth could look like physically. It's very difficult for us round earthers to debate logically about a flat earth without seeing some sort of 3-dimensional representation (and one that the majority of FEs agree upon).

I know I've seen a dozen different 2-dimensional diagrams here, but all seem to differ in several of the most basic concepts.

At least we REs agree on exactly the same spherical model (whether it's right or wrong is neither here nor there for the sake of this argument).  But there seems to be some major disagreements between several FEs on this site as to exactly what the flat earth looks like.  Why is this?

Why is there no universal agreement about probably the most very basic of concepts; that is, a model?
 

Given that no one here can collectively agree on the current model of a flat earth, maybe you could all put your heads together and work on that rather than how it was created?

Well, yeah, except that that is not what the thread is about.  Have you even read the whole thread?

Quote from: glokta on February 16, 2014, 02:12:56 AM

Given that no one here can collectively agree on the current model of a flat earth, maybe you could all put your heads together and work on that rather than how it was created?

Well, yeah, except that that is not what the thread is about.  Have you even read the whole thread?

Yes. Hence my post. Which references what the thread about.

So, the about is what you are referencing? Also, can you if you so much, as to the end? 

So, the about is what you are referencing? Also, can you if you so much, as to the end?

who can i report a low content post to?